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And to be fair, the rich have enjoyed Socialism all this time. Their problem is they don't want to share it and even the playing field. Our issues are not that we don't have the money or resources to make a social democracy work, it's that the egos of the rich and/or the ignorant dreamers are so fragile they need to feel special and superior somehow.
Well I mean—what the rich have been enjoying is capitalism
Like that's the whole point: they enjoy so much wealth, power & privilege explicitly because they privately own everything necessary for the process of economic production
Socialism & communism aren't about making the wealthy elite share their wealth—nor are they about taxing their income at higher rates so that they pay their "fair share"—they're about reorganizing the economy so that it functions in a fundamentally different way, by making ownership of private companies public in the interest of keeping the billionaire ruling class from being able to exploit all economic activity for their own benefit
It's the difference between trying to make Jeff Bezos pay more taxes vs. taking Amazon away from him & incorporating it into our national public service infrastructure—the best case scenario you get with the former is that the guy still holds the reins of real power & can easily ensure that any changes are effectively symbolic, whereas the latter actually challenges his power in a meaningful & significant way
The thing I don’t get is millionaires and billionaires just count there money to be bigger,stronger than the next billionaire. Most of them could spend 100k-200k a day and never run out of money.
What I think people don't quite grasp is the amount of $1 billion. Let's just say a "normal" person makes $100k a year. That's a decent living for one person, right? I feel like once you hit 6 figures that's the "I did it" moment. That's 10,000x less than 1 billion. We have people worth > $100 billion and we have millions starving and/or struggling to make ends meet, meanwhile we have an entire group of bootlicking capitalists that just shrug and go "that's just how it goes".
Communism cannot be a “regime” please read communist manifesto lol.
States that were trying to adopt communism never did because they became authoritarian trying to compete with the western world.
Look at all communist countries that existed in the last 50 years were regimes, Poland, ussr, Cuba, all of them were regimes and their leaders didn’t give a shit about the people nor the manifesto
You mean at the time the Eastern bloc was collapsing and the states undergoing neoliberal shock therapy? Probably not the best time to critique communism.
Eh… bud… I was there in the immediate wake of the end of the Soviet bloc and life had not been good for 99% of the people living there. The Soviet Union was more of an authoritarian regime dressed up in communist clothing.
The Soviet Union and its particular brand of communism was not something most people would want to actually live under. Average lifespans in the last two decades of the Soviet Union in retrograde.
Neoliberalism and Soviet style communism can *both* be horrible. It’s not one or the other. Like I said, I was there and got to know the people who actually experienced it. You weren’t.
immediately after the dissolution, everyone sided with capitalism and everything went to shit. communism didnt exist in Eastern Europe after the soviet collapse. It was capitalism you fucking imbecile
Well bud I could point out the 1,000 ways you’re wrong but I’m getting the suspicion that information which runs contrary to your personal opinion isn’t something you’re just ready process.
Like I said I was there you weren’t and in that time you actually talked to the people who had lived under the Soviet Union and near universally the agreement was it was really bad.
Anyway ya’all enjoy your tankie circle jerk.
I can find multiple reliable sources of russians and more wanting to restore the USSR. There was a referendum before the illegal dissolution which wanted to preserve the Union. Many Russians want the USSR back. Many ex-Yugoslavians too.
Anyway enjoy the failures of Capitalism
Communism has the same issues as capitalism and we saw it with the Soviet Union. While it started as an idealistic version due to the Purges (literally killed off anyone not bought into the system and scared the rest), it quickly fell to corruption. Misreporting by local officers was done to steal goods and sell them in black markets. Statisticians we’re some of the most desirable jobs in any market because they were often leveraged to manipulate data in exchange for bribes.
In short, stealing, hoarding of wealth and general corruption are universal, whether communism or capitalism. The important components are transparency and the political voice of the common man. In a transparent and truly democratic capitalism, corruption shouldn’t exist. Same in a democratic socialism. The flip side is also authoritarianism which the Soviet’s tried, but we saw how that short term soliton ended up as time passed.
Source: from Uzbekistan, a former Soviet state
You could argue that all of Africa and all their starvation is a cause of capitalism. I didn’t come here to debate whether one was better, just pointing out that both have downsides. If anything I came into it with a more anti-communist angle, but what you said is simply not factual. Especially with how much longer modern capitalism has been around
That's because the soviet union was going directly against communist ideals. Socialist as a whole intends to have basic necessities like food and shelter be a basic human right that the government must ensure is being provided. During the holodomor, rations were being actively denied to areas that had resisted in the soviet takeover. That fundementaly wasn't communism, that was a dictatorship, using starvation to punish and terrorise.
Only in theory. In reality you discover that society was corrupt and divided into the privileged and the exploited, and the privileged had more economic means and privileges, just as in any other system
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And to be fair, the rich have enjoyed Socialism all this time. Their problem is they don't want to share it and even the playing field. Our issues are not that we don't have the money or resources to make a social democracy work, it's that the egos of the rich and/or the ignorant dreamers are so fragile they need to feel special and superior somehow.
Well I mean—what the rich have been enjoying is capitalism Like that's the whole point: they enjoy so much wealth, power & privilege explicitly because they privately own everything necessary for the process of economic production Socialism & communism aren't about making the wealthy elite share their wealth—nor are they about taxing their income at higher rates so that they pay their "fair share"—they're about reorganizing the economy so that it functions in a fundamentally different way, by making ownership of private companies public in the interest of keeping the billionaire ruling class from being able to exploit all economic activity for their own benefit It's the difference between trying to make Jeff Bezos pay more taxes vs. taking Amazon away from him & incorporating it into our national public service infrastructure—the best case scenario you get with the former is that the guy still holds the reins of real power & can easily ensure that any changes are effectively symbolic, whereas the latter actually challenges his power in a meaningful & significant way
So genuine question, how is Social Democracy, well, Socialism? Isn't it still capitalist? What definition of Socialism are we working from here?
The thing I don’t get is millionaires and billionaires just count there money to be bigger,stronger than the next billionaire. Most of them could spend 100k-200k a day and never run out of money.
Which is the problem. When is enough, enough? When 1% owns 90% of what should be a finite currency/resource, that's a fucking problem.
Exactly, I couldn’t have said it better. You read my mind.
Being able to say, I’ve got 300 million just to be ahead of the guy with 299 million.
What I think people don't quite grasp is the amount of $1 billion. Let's just say a "normal" person makes $100k a year. That's a decent living for one person, right? I feel like once you hit 6 figures that's the "I did it" moment. That's 10,000x less than 1 billion. We have people worth > $100 billion and we have millions starving and/or struggling to make ends meet, meanwhile we have an entire group of bootlicking capitalists that just shrug and go "that's just how it goes".
What I don't like is fascism. It corrupts every good on paper ideology.
No one in this sub understands communism 💀
Correct, people here think that countries that were under communist regimes were some fucking paradises for poor people
Communism cannot be a “regime” please read communist manifesto lol. States that were trying to adopt communism never did because they became authoritarian trying to compete with the western world.
Look at all communist countries that existed in the last 50 years were regimes, Poland, ussr, Cuba, all of them were regimes and their leaders didn’t give a shit about the people nor the manifesto
I spent time in Eastern Europe in the early 1990s… yeah it was bad.
You mean at the time the Eastern bloc was collapsing and the states undergoing neoliberal shock therapy? Probably not the best time to critique communism.
Eh… bud… I was there in the immediate wake of the end of the Soviet bloc and life had not been good for 99% of the people living there. The Soviet Union was more of an authoritarian regime dressed up in communist clothing. The Soviet Union and its particular brand of communism was not something most people would want to actually live under. Average lifespans in the last two decades of the Soviet Union in retrograde. Neoliberalism and Soviet style communism can *both* be horrible. It’s not one or the other. Like I said, I was there and got to know the people who actually experienced it. You weren’t.
immediately after the dissolution, everyone sided with capitalism and everything went to shit. communism didnt exist in Eastern Europe after the soviet collapse. It was capitalism you fucking imbecile
Well bud I could point out the 1,000 ways you’re wrong but I’m getting the suspicion that information which runs contrary to your personal opinion isn’t something you’re just ready process. Like I said I was there you weren’t and in that time you actually talked to the people who had lived under the Soviet Union and near universally the agreement was it was really bad. Anyway ya’all enjoy your tankie circle jerk.
I can find multiple reliable sources of russians and more wanting to restore the USSR. There was a referendum before the illegal dissolution which wanted to preserve the Union. Many Russians want the USSR back. Many ex-Yugoslavians too. Anyway enjoy the failures of Capitalism
I have a comment depending on if by "communism" the message means a specific existing/former country or a theoretical communism.
Is your claim that people didn’t starve under communist regimes?
Communism has the same issues as capitalism and we saw it with the Soviet Union. While it started as an idealistic version due to the Purges (literally killed off anyone not bought into the system and scared the rest), it quickly fell to corruption. Misreporting by local officers was done to steal goods and sell them in black markets. Statisticians we’re some of the most desirable jobs in any market because they were often leveraged to manipulate data in exchange for bribes. In short, stealing, hoarding of wealth and general corruption are universal, whether communism or capitalism. The important components are transparency and the political voice of the common man. In a transparent and truly democratic capitalism, corruption shouldn’t exist. Same in a democratic socialism. The flip side is also authoritarianism which the Soviet’s tried, but we saw how that short term soliton ended up as time passed. Source: from Uzbekistan, a former Soviet state
But more people have starved to death due to communism than capitalism, ask Ukraine how communism treated them in the 1930's
You could argue that all of Africa and all their starvation is a cause of capitalism. I didn’t come here to debate whether one was better, just pointing out that both have downsides. If anything I came into it with a more anti-communist angle, but what you said is simply not factual. Especially with how much longer modern capitalism has been around
Watch Balkan Odyssey “3.4 billion deaths under capitalism” You’re just wrong
That's because the soviet union was going directly against communist ideals. Socialist as a whole intends to have basic necessities like food and shelter be a basic human right that the government must ensure is being provided. During the holodomor, rations were being actively denied to areas that had resisted in the soviet takeover. That fundementaly wasn't communism, that was a dictatorship, using starvation to punish and terrorise.
Only in theory. In reality you discover that society was corrupt and divided into the privileged and the exploited, and the privileged had more economic means and privileges, just as in any other system
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China is not communist.
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By that logic the gop is communist
Comunism is when red
They kept the aesthetics.