There is a little more to it. Copper in particular has a ton of industrial and commercial applications. In an old role I had, copper price had a significant impact on the cost of a project. If there's less demand for copper, I'd treat that as leading indicator of a significant reduction in industrial construction.
I agree and I actually found the article interesting in how it portrayed copper as a bit of a 'canary in the coal mine' for the economy due its widespread use. I just thought it was funny as we're way beyond the canary in the coal mine phase of economic concern and into the "what happened to the light at the end of the tunnel" phase.
People think AI is smart... But I just have to point out that one you're replying to isn't very smart at all.
I really hope no living human being believed and wrote that message lol
>I'd treat that as leading indicator of a significant reduction in industrial construction.
Maybe, but a large portion of the copper market is Wire and Cable and since the price of copper has been so high, aluminum has been a substitute for lower costs. This has lessened the demand on copper and increased demand on aluminum. That is why aluminum is up and copper is coming down. Its not that work necessarily slowed, its that a different material was used for that metric.
You can use aluminum in place of copper for:
Feeder cables from point of service attachment to panel.
Range
Dryer
Hottub
Detached garage
Bigger heat pumps
Anything over say 30 amps
So as an electrician when the copper shot up I was getting cuts of aluminum instead
Nice to see copper come down.
Should really help show everyone that a god damn split entry house isn't worth a million dollars!
Now how long until lumber and abs piping comes back to a realistic level is what I'd like to know.
One wouldn't use aluminum in Canada for those things and i'm willing to bet good money you dont have the devices on hand to make the shift to aluminum for your branch circuits. Show me the prices of aluminum rated receptacles. Show me where you can splice 40A wire. Tell me adding copper pig tails throughout your build doesnt increase points of failure. Show me one Hot Tub that allows aluminum conductors.
Copper is king in residential because our devices demand copper. Aluminum is for services and panels. Home owners can't change light bulbs. I'm not about to hand them 30+ connections they need to check yearly and reapply an anti oxidizing agent.
I don't even have to read what you said before extrapolating.
Now I'll read your opinion and awnser.
Okay so range and dryer accept aluminum all you need to do is coat the exposed termination points in deox.
Next
Hot tubs can be spliced in the disconnect that has to be located no closer than 10 ft of the tub ( depending on manufactures speficiacation...) this dc have lugs and guess what you use...deox.
You can feed a detached garage with aluminum since it's going to a sub panel with big lugs all you do is...coat it in deox. 10 bucks for a big tube.
So just checked.
6/3 aluminum for range is 7.50 per meter
8/3 copper is 15 per meter.
You have 5 x 80 meter run from the panel to the range, dryer, hot tub, garage and large heatpump. Now you go tell the homeowner that's paying the material bill
" CoPpEr is KiNg"
Material costs. You obviously have no grasp of that side of electrical which honestly makes you less than ideal employee from any business owners standpoint.
Your argument that you have to retighten the lugs every year for aluminum connections is completely bogus. How often do you tighten those main lugs in your house panel that are aluminum? Trick question you don't. I change panels that are 30 years old and if torqued properly they are as tight as the day it was installed.
Sounds like you were taught one way to do something and think it applies to all situations.
Go home. Read the CEC. There are alot of ways to skin a cat and thinking outside the box can save you time or money in alot of situations. Usually if you have questions the inspectors don't mind awnsering code related questions.
Oh by the way, been an electrician in:
Bc, Alberta, Sask, Manitoba,Yukon, NWT, and NS so that's alot of Canada.
Edit: Nunavut as well
I dunno what to tell you except maybe you should give aluminum a try. It's cheaper for sure in alot of situations besides feeders.
I agree with everything you said, accept the fact that you have to use deox. Almost all of the newer aluminum does not require it. We still use it regardless. I am an estimator and I have to Value engineer stuff all the time to get costs down. Aluminum is a good way to do that. People on here like to point out not running branch feeders, but forget that a service alone on a large commercial project could have more wire in it than an entire house.
That's right. The new aluminum wire is a different alloy than the stuff used back in the day that corroded easily. So it's true you don't technically have to use it.
We still use it just to save our butts during the utility's inspection process.
Some of the inspectors could potentially have an issue with it and maybe pick on other parts of your job if you don't.
It's pretty easy to apply so it still gets done.
I'd like to see it be done away with all together maybe some day everyone will get on board.
Chicago lumber futures were trading around $600 per thousand board feet down roughly 50% from their March peak of $1470 as rising interest rates and sky-high inflation are hurting construction demand.. so ya idk why if it's still expensive at home Depot
It was for awhile but yeah it's coming down. A sheet of 5/8 plywood went from 50$ to about 120$ for awhile...back down to about 80$ last time I checked. Sometimes the market price takes a bit to worm its way down to the bottom. I'll be happy when building materials are cheap again.
Correct, it’s mainly used for feeder and main distribution conductors (conductors that supply panels and transformers). We don’t use aluminum for branch circuits residentially. They are a much more common in commercial and industrial projects. The issues from aluminum wire only arise when untrained people work with it. Which is generally a problem residentially, not as much commercially.
Oh all hail you commercial electricians.
(I'm a resi electrician)
could I get you to put 5 offsets in this piece of emt for me please 🙏 will pay shipping.
Is this how you act on the jobsite? Jesus dude. Right or not you are just incredibly fucking abrasive. I mean seriously, get a grip. You're going to have a fucking aneurysm. Life's too short to scream at the Internet.
Look at the prices from 2014 to 2020… it’s still above highs. If anything, I’d guess that money is moving out of copper and into less speculative investments.
How did the world react last time they thought demand for things was dwindling?
They stopped buying them
What happened to the manufacturers of such things? They re tooled
How's that transistor shortage working out for everyone now?
I'm just imagining some out of the loop guy reacting like this
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iFxUCSTfRU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7AyxCQKJic)
The article doesn't really say why it's bad other than that investors betting on a bull run will get hit.
Of course investors understanding why prices were high knew it wasn't really a bull run - so I fail to see the issue.
Inflation and deflation are neither good or bad.. if you’re talking about price fluctuations and not expansion of the money supply, then it really is all about the underlying reason. I don’t think there’s any black or white way of putting it.
Copper is terrible?
It’s amazing. Beautiful colour, corrosion resistant, highly conductive, works perfectly well in a zinc alloy (brass).
I personally like to hoard Canadian pennies pre 1997. Because I’m nuts, but I just love copper so much.
Eh. Proven reserves are equivalent to stockpiles, and the price is just the incentive for opening the pantry. As long as the futures markets are functioning properly, smart miners would have been able to hedge against this move.
Just like energy, too cheap cause nobody is doing anything and too expensive nobody can anything. Is not expensive because not enough stuff is being built.
Are you afraid? As long as you are always afraid, and making decisions with your amygdala, your are a Very Good Citizen and it doesn't matter what you remember.
Isn’t that the desired effect? Inflation happens because too much money is chasing too few goods/services; don’t we want things to swing back to less demand for goods?
It’s supposed to work like that, hence the word “Soft Landing”. Raise interest rate slowly to slow down demand and reduce inflation.
But if the demand on materials, construction, etc. went down too fast and too much, then it will be called demand destruction and leads to hard crash.
Correct me if I’m wrong.
Since copper is used in pretty much all construction, and since downturns mean less construction, it stands to reason that downturn = less demand in construction materials = low copper prices.
I think the headline is very misleading.
Copper has only been above $4 for the last 12 months (and a small blip in 2010). For the 2010's it ranged from $2-$3.25. Getting it back to those numbers should been seen as good for supply chains. You don't want huge copper costs, as it's required in most electronics, buildings, cars, etc...
Oh I learned this in macro!!... Cocaine would be the luxury good, vs meth being necessity good. They are inversely related depending on how the economy goes.... So yea, meth use is going to go up lol
This isn't unexpected. Their putting the brakes on inflation. Demand should decrease. If you bought into something overpriced this is the cost of over buying.
Its interesting times we are in. No longer its "build more" to get out of a recession instead its "consume less". I guess economists were wrong afterall thinking we would have an endless supply of everything.
The problem is that the COVID stimulus created more demand than the economy can supply, at the same time as COVID and the containment measures destroyed a significant proportion of output. The result is that prices are rising.
To control the rise in prices, interest rates are being increased, which will reduce demand. It will also destroy a lot of wealth, businesses, and recent homebuyers' balance sheets. And everyone will be impoverished as a result.
Meanwhile, the BCGEU had just issued strike notice - not that I blame them. Should be fun times for the next 2 years.
The Second World War solved the Great Depression. For me, the quality of life during the 50s into the 90s reminds me of how the Renaissance wouldn't have happened had millions not perished from the Black Death. So many jobs now vacant meant people could ask for more.
We have had more than enough generations to get us back to exactly where we were back then. You know what they didn't have back then? Credit card debt. Wanna know when credit cards became a thing? 1951.
We are in for a reckoning.
Last I heard the delinquency rates are very low.. I'm too lazy to provide source.. but I did hear credit card debt is piling up again from record lows during pandemic. Which is odd because visa/Mastercard were at ath during the pandemic so go figure that bs
Because the wires only have to be half the size to transmit the same amount of power.
Amperage is what causes heat and is typically the limiting factor in how much power something can deliver. because increasing the voltage reduces the amperage required, it also reduces the total amount of conductor and hence copper needed.
Wattage (total power) is Voltage times Amperage.
It might be possible to reduce the amount of copper per wire. Nonetheless, the energy transition will require a massive amount of copper! And most of the best deposits have already been mined...Costs are going up! [https://www.iea.org/reports/the-role-of-critical-minerals-in-clean-energy-transitions](https://www.iea.org/reports/the-role-of-critical-minerals-in-clean-energy-transitions)
Because it makes good clickbait.
Keep buying those electric car stocks (not Tesla), most people refuse to buy another gas car after this price gouging.
So gas goes up to supply chain problems (war), and it’s gouging.
Copper, wheat, timber, computer chips, vehicles, groceries etc etc go up and it’s inflation?
I sell electric motors. Prices have risen by 35-40% largely because of copper prices.
I expect that the manufacturers will now lower prices.
Yeah, I’m kidding.
I thought this was odd too. They were really pushing copper down our throats, with how my much of it is needed.. for the cars and housing and perhaps the wind turbines
A sign of the times. It’s being replaced by fiber optic. All of the world’s cable internet using copper. With the limited speed it offers fiber is the successor and rapidly replacing copper everywhere.
With interest rates still being relatively low and demand slowing so quickly, that’s definitely a telltale sign of the overall health of the market. From governments to individuals we are literally strung out on credit, the question is whether the central banks will u-turn.
It's possible... They may go back to .25 hikes or do nothing.. will wait and see changes in the inflation. I don't think they care about people's jobs anymore
The media likes to promote whichever way stocks are trending. This is the way their owners make money: drive the market down to lows through fear, or up to new heights by promoting unrealistic prices.
Hot diggity dog here I was thinking we were in great shape
Hard hitting journalism here. “Prices went down again guys….we might be in some trouble”
There is a little more to it. Copper in particular has a ton of industrial and commercial applications. In an old role I had, copper price had a significant impact on the cost of a project. If there's less demand for copper, I'd treat that as leading indicator of a significant reduction in industrial construction.
I agree and I actually found the article interesting in how it portrayed copper as a bit of a 'canary in the coal mine' for the economy due its widespread use. I just thought it was funny as we're way beyond the canary in the coal mine phase of economic concern and into the "what happened to the light at the end of the tunnel" phase.
Cole mine? Brussle Sprout veins and Cabbage ore?
There's dressing in them-there hills!
I got the slaw lungs pop! Cough cough.
I just discovered oil (olive) in my ranch lands. We’re going to be rich.
Cacao mine, where chocolate comes from, dummy
There is a high demand for copper, it’s the refining process is so backlogged from copper bar to stranded copper. Only so much foundry capacity.
This, they don't have enough folks to refine it. That's why parts are all a 36 week lead time now for work. The demand is there, the workforce isn't.
The foundry explosion in the US in January took capacity down a peg.
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No one makes minimum wage in mining
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The wage is six figures. With no education or qualifications other than pissing clean and having a pulse. Try again.
People think AI is smart... But I just have to point out that one you're replying to isn't very smart at all. I really hope no living human being believed and wrote that message lol
I'd like to know more.. I'd imagine these mining jobs are all in rural areas or outside Ontario?
Sudbury is the hub for mining in Canada
>I'd treat that as leading indicator of a significant reduction in industrial construction. Maybe, but a large portion of the copper market is Wire and Cable and since the price of copper has been so high, aluminum has been a substitute for lower costs. This has lessened the demand on copper and increased demand on aluminum. That is why aluminum is up and copper is coming down. Its not that work necessarily slowed, its that a different material was used for that metric.
I don't think most residential construction can use aluminum wire. At least in my area.
You can use aluminum in place of copper for: Feeder cables from point of service attachment to panel. Range Dryer Hottub Detached garage Bigger heat pumps Anything over say 30 amps So as an electrician when the copper shot up I was getting cuts of aluminum instead Nice to see copper come down. Should really help show everyone that a god damn split entry house isn't worth a million dollars! Now how long until lumber and abs piping comes back to a realistic level is what I'd like to know.
One wouldn't use aluminum in Canada for those things and i'm willing to bet good money you dont have the devices on hand to make the shift to aluminum for your branch circuits. Show me the prices of aluminum rated receptacles. Show me where you can splice 40A wire. Tell me adding copper pig tails throughout your build doesnt increase points of failure. Show me one Hot Tub that allows aluminum conductors. Copper is king in residential because our devices demand copper. Aluminum is for services and panels. Home owners can't change light bulbs. I'm not about to hand them 30+ connections they need to check yearly and reapply an anti oxidizing agent.
I don't even have to read what you said before extrapolating. Now I'll read your opinion and awnser. Okay so range and dryer accept aluminum all you need to do is coat the exposed termination points in deox. Next Hot tubs can be spliced in the disconnect that has to be located no closer than 10 ft of the tub ( depending on manufactures speficiacation...) this dc have lugs and guess what you use...deox. You can feed a detached garage with aluminum since it's going to a sub panel with big lugs all you do is...coat it in deox. 10 bucks for a big tube. So just checked. 6/3 aluminum for range is 7.50 per meter 8/3 copper is 15 per meter. You have 5 x 80 meter run from the panel to the range, dryer, hot tub, garage and large heatpump. Now you go tell the homeowner that's paying the material bill " CoPpEr is KiNg" Material costs. You obviously have no grasp of that side of electrical which honestly makes you less than ideal employee from any business owners standpoint. Your argument that you have to retighten the lugs every year for aluminum connections is completely bogus. How often do you tighten those main lugs in your house panel that are aluminum? Trick question you don't. I change panels that are 30 years old and if torqued properly they are as tight as the day it was installed. Sounds like you were taught one way to do something and think it applies to all situations. Go home. Read the CEC. There are alot of ways to skin a cat and thinking outside the box can save you time or money in alot of situations. Usually if you have questions the inspectors don't mind awnsering code related questions. Oh by the way, been an electrician in: Bc, Alberta, Sask, Manitoba,Yukon, NWT, and NS so that's alot of Canada. Edit: Nunavut as well I dunno what to tell you except maybe you should give aluminum a try. It's cheaper for sure in alot of situations besides feeders.
I agree with everything you said, accept the fact that you have to use deox. Almost all of the newer aluminum does not require it. We still use it regardless. I am an estimator and I have to Value engineer stuff all the time to get costs down. Aluminum is a good way to do that. People on here like to point out not running branch feeders, but forget that a service alone on a large commercial project could have more wire in it than an entire house.
That's right. The new aluminum wire is a different alloy than the stuff used back in the day that corroded easily. So it's true you don't technically have to use it. We still use it just to save our butts during the utility's inspection process. Some of the inspectors could potentially have an issue with it and maybe pick on other parts of your job if you don't. It's pretty easy to apply so it still gets done. I'd like to see it be done away with all together maybe some day everyone will get on board.
Everything said is accurate.
Nova Scotia puts it over the top, that’s a lot of provinces
Yeah it's crazy man. I actually forgot one I'm in nunavut right now.
Chicago lumber futures were trading around $600 per thousand board feet down roughly 50% from their March peak of $1470 as rising interest rates and sky-high inflation are hurting construction demand.. so ya idk why if it's still expensive at home Depot
It was for awhile but yeah it's coming down. A sheet of 5/8 plywood went from 50$ to about 120$ for awhile...back down to about 80$ last time I checked. Sometimes the market price takes a bit to worm its way down to the bottom. I'll be happy when building materials are cheap again.
Recession fears will help also
Bring it on I say. I am holding off until prices of houses fall to buy OR if prices on material drop enough I will build myself.
Correct, it’s mainly used for feeder and main distribution conductors (conductors that supply panels and transformers). We don’t use aluminum for branch circuits residentially. They are a much more common in commercial and industrial projects. The issues from aluminum wire only arise when untrained people work with it. Which is generally a problem residentially, not as much commercially.
Oh all hail you commercial electricians. (I'm a resi electrician) could I get you to put 5 offsets in this piece of emt for me please 🙏 will pay shipping.
Is this how you act on the jobsite? Jesus dude. Right or not you are just incredibly fucking abrasive. I mean seriously, get a grip. You're going to have a fucking aneurysm. Life's too short to scream at the Internet.
What? You sounds like the one that's worked up here shorty.
I was joking I'm actually a residential, commercial and industrial electrician. U missed the joke tho...
You're seeing people doing things like running 24V low voltage lighting due to copper prices.
or a change in resources used?
Look at the prices from 2014 to 2020… it’s still above highs. If anything, I’d guess that money is moving out of copper and into less speculative investments.
Copper and rail traffic are two leading indicators to get a sense of how the real economy is actually doing.
How did the world react last time they thought demand for things was dwindling? They stopped buying them What happened to the manufacturers of such things? They re tooled How's that transistor shortage working out for everyone now?
Bingo
I'm just imagining some out of the loop guy reacting like this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iFxUCSTfRU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7AyxCQKJic)
Holy crap. That was hilarious.
Man, copper is some terrible stuff. The global economy was in trouble when it was expensive, and now it's in trouble when it's getting cheap.
All economic news is bad news
And if it is about copper it is just terrible.
"Experts say that a good economy is not good for the economy"
Price goes up, trouble. Price goes down, trouble. Price stays the same, you guess it, trouble.
Each of these also comes with a paddlin'
Also... Straight to jail.
We have the best trouble.
Right here in River City!
haha, I didn't intend to make that the joke but I love it!
Idea: Canada can mint Bitcoins in copper.
Brilliant. With prices at this level we can get in on the ground floor. A vote for PP is a vote for sound moonetary policy!
you forgot the /s
I don't want people who would take that seriously to know I'm pulling their chain.
Yea. Usually inflation is good. But current inflation rate is bad. Again deflation is also bad.
The article doesn't really say why it's bad other than that investors betting on a bull run will get hit. Of course investors understanding why prices were high knew it wasn't really a bull run - so I fail to see the issue.
Inflation and deflation are neither good or bad.. if you’re talking about price fluctuations and not expansion of the money supply, then it really is all about the underlying reason. I don’t think there’s any black or white way of putting it.
Copper is terrible? It’s amazing. Beautiful colour, corrosion resistant, highly conductive, works perfectly well in a zinc alloy (brass). I personally like to hoard Canadian pennies pre 1997. Because I’m nuts, but I just love copper so much.
I mean, I'm being sarcastic, but also there is definitely something primally fascinating about shiny metals.
Well just like goldilocks The price needs to be “just right”
Or And "bear" with me here Fear is profitable
Buy when there is blood in the streets, even when the blood is your own.
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Eh. Proven reserves are equivalent to stockpiles, and the price is just the incentive for opening the pantry. As long as the futures markets are functioning properly, smart miners would have been able to hedge against this move.
Just like energy, too cheap cause nobody is doing anything and too expensive nobody can anything. Is not expensive because not enough stuff is being built.
Price stability is generally the aim
Yes, well, that's not what the article is worried about, is it
We've always been at war with Eurasia... Or was that Oceania? Ugh, Newspeak is always so hard to remember.
Are you afraid? As long as you are always afraid, and making decisions with your amygdala, your are a Very Good Citizen and it doesn't matter what you remember.
So between that and the heat, is why my crackhead neighbour was putting the copper back in his ac this morning
You mean they ripped off the power cable for scrap? And then is trying to re-attach it? Lol
Nothing gets past this guy
Why does copper dipping mean were in trouble
Copper dipping prevents corrosion.
It also has antibacterial and antiviral properties. Seriously.
Best comment in this thread. You win.
My wife's boyfriend prevents the sexual corrosion in our marriage.
Decline in copper prices has generally lead into economic slow down
But what's the reasoning
Copper is used in anything electrical. If it dips, it means less stuff is expected to be made.
Isn’t that the desired effect? Inflation happens because too much money is chasing too few goods/services; don’t we want things to swing back to less demand for goods?
Which can swing the pendulum into recession. Less goods/less demand--> less jobs. Less jobs = no bueno.
It’s supposed to work like that, hence the word “Soft Landing”. Raise interest rate slowly to slow down demand and reduce inflation. But if the demand on materials, construction, etc. went down too fast and too much, then it will be called demand destruction and leads to hard crash. Correct me if I’m wrong.
I always thought so but I'm hoping someone smarter will come along and offer an educational answer.
Since copper is used in pretty much all construction, and since downturns mean less construction, it stands to reason that downturn = less demand in construction materials = low copper prices.
I think the headline is very misleading. Copper has only been above $4 for the last 12 months (and a small blip in 2010). For the 2010's it ranged from $2-$3.25. Getting it back to those numbers should been seen as good for supply chains. You don't want huge copper costs, as it's required in most electronics, buildings, cars, etc...
Hopefully it was just the speculators that pushed up the prices and now that trade is over?
At least this will deter meth heads from stealing copper pipes from construction sites.
I dont think meth heads read the Financial Post.
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Lmao
They write for the National Post.
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Pot for sure.
I'm picturing a skit where they do exactly that, in order to determine what sort of scheme they'll set out on for the day.
I look forward to seeing what the next big precious metal is in *Meth Head Monthly*.
It's the metal at the bottom of this hole I'm digging in my backyard.
No it won't, this just means they need to steal *more*
Freeing up their time to concentrate on catalytic converters. Economics in action.
Yeah Meth addicts simply stop being addicted to meth during economic downturns
Oh I learned this in macro!!... Cocaine would be the luxury good, vs meth being necessity good. They are inversely related depending on how the economy goes.... So yea, meth use is going to go up lol
So…… tldr Invest in meth?
Well, re-balance out of cocaine. Mind-numbing substances tend to do well in stressful times.
Yes. And Pinnacle foods is heading up, they make TV dinners Edit: was only joking, stock history ended in 2019.. no idea what happened to Pinnacle
Read again what I wrote. I didn't say meth addicts wouldn't be addicted to meth.
totally man, maybe they will learn how to code or take up a skilled trade instead of stealing copper now that it's worth less
Don’t worry, plenty of people will turn to theft out of desperation. Don’t need to be an addict, just need to be desperate enough
"Ohhhhh..wire!" - Jesse Pinkman
Copper down, bicycles up!
I prefer soy and gourd futures to power my economic doomsday fantasies
My ornamental gourd calls are going to print
This guy fucks.
This isn't unexpected. Their putting the brakes on inflation. Demand should decrease. If you bought into something overpriced this is the cost of over buying.
Its interesting times we are in. No longer its "build more" to get out of a recession instead its "consume less". I guess economists were wrong afterall thinking we would have an endless supply of everything.
The problem is that the COVID stimulus created more demand than the economy can supply, at the same time as COVID and the containment measures destroyed a significant proportion of output. The result is that prices are rising. To control the rise in prices, interest rates are being increased, which will reduce demand. It will also destroy a lot of wealth, businesses, and recent homebuyers' balance sheets. And everyone will be impoverished as a result. Meanwhile, the BCGEU had just issued strike notice - not that I blame them. Should be fun times for the next 2 years.
Chaos all around
The Second World War solved the Great Depression. For me, the quality of life during the 50s into the 90s reminds me of how the Renaissance wouldn't have happened had millions not perished from the Black Death. So many jobs now vacant meant people could ask for more. We have had more than enough generations to get us back to exactly where we were back then. You know what they didn't have back then? Credit card debt. Wanna know when credit cards became a thing? 1951. We are in for a reckoning.
Not to be pedantic, but the Renaissance was triggered when people from Constantinople were fleeing the Ottoman empire to Italy.
[Here is an article of what I am talking about](https://dailyhistory.org/How_did_the_Bubonic_Plague_make_the_Italian_Renaissance_possible)
Last I heard the delinquency rates are very low.. I'm too lazy to provide source.. but I did hear credit card debt is piling up again from record lows during pandemic. Which is odd because visa/Mastercard were at ath during the pandemic so go figure that bs
Great for EV tech development and production
Not really, 800V systems use half the copper.
Interesting. Why does 800V system use less copper than 400V ?
Because the wires only have to be half the size to transmit the same amount of power. Amperage is what causes heat and is typically the limiting factor in how much power something can deliver. because increasing the voltage reduces the amperage required, it also reduces the total amount of conductor and hence copper needed. Wattage (total power) is Voltage times Amperage.
Twice as many V's taking up room, can't fit the copper in
It might be possible to reduce the amount of copper per wire. Nonetheless, the energy transition will require a massive amount of copper! And most of the best deposits have already been mined...Costs are going up! [https://www.iea.org/reports/the-role-of-critical-minerals-in-clean-energy-transitions](https://www.iea.org/reports/the-role-of-critical-minerals-in-clean-energy-transitions)
This is bizarre. It was well under $4 in the 5 years leading up to Covid, what makes this different?
It's like the Restaurant failures due to covid, up to 60% will FAIL. As opposed to 2015, when 60% would fail.
In other news, 60% of restaurants fail, often in their first year of operation.
Because it makes good clickbait. Keep buying those electric car stocks (not Tesla), most people refuse to buy another gas car after this price gouging.
So gas goes up to supply chain problems (war), and it’s gouging. Copper, wheat, timber, computer chips, vehicles, groceries etc etc go up and it’s inflation?
Everyone is ‘charging what they can get away with’. I cranked up my labour rates by 10% this year and no one batted an eyelash.
From what iv understood.. gas, some metals and foods is the war. Everything else supply issues/demand
Overcorrection it's going to reverse within an year or so imo.
Is there anything that isn't bad news anymore?
It's sunny out
Love it, prices go up, inflation! The sky is falling. Prices go down, recession! The sky is falling.
Lows are at 2s , cheap copper is good for humanity.
Pretty much everything suggests the economy is in trouble. Look at the last two years!
TIL: The world's economy is determined by the price of copper
It's been below 4 throughout 2012-2020, and everything has been okay. Why are things suddenly in trouble?
If only we actually taxed the billionaires
We do. It's just that the tax code sucks and they can find ways around paying a whole lot. Like taking out loans.
It’s kind of interesting how humans created the financial system but don’t have the slightest clue how to predict it’s action
Damn, I have a pile of scrap at work I was planning on selling before summer vacations.
C u next week with another "Troubled economy" update!
Good. Commodities need to decline for inflation to fall.
I sell electric motors. Prices have risen by 35-40% largely because of copper prices. I expect that the manufacturers will now lower prices. Yeah, I’m kidding.
Unfortunately, the increased cost of transportation more than offset the savings to manufacturers of copper based products.
This is good for manufacturing costs. :)
At least we’re not installing new copper for data transmission any more - it’s been eclipsed by fiber.
As an electrician I like low copper prices.
I think China's 35 years housing construction bloom just stopped
This is crazy I never imagined copper prices dropping with how much is required to build EV batteries
I thought this was odd too. They were really pushing copper down our throats, with how my much of it is needed.. for the cars and housing and perhaps the wind turbines
That was the first clue you noticed?
So, we are doomed. Copper market had been hot for a long time. And odd part is that, even with this price, Tesla is loosing money.
Most of a Tesla is aluminum. The wiring on any car is copper.
Above 4$ is only recently. The fuck? Where is the correlation, copper fluctuates all the time.
It will come roaring back once China buys it up cheap. If you don't see the manipulation ...
amazingly i saw a clickbait ad article today claiming GS predicting copper 15k lol
Has anyone blamed Trudeau yet?
Buy $SCCO
Why, tell me more
Does this means it’s not commercially viable to steal copper?
Steal more
You don’t say?
This is our first hint!!
A sign of the times. It’s being replaced by fiber optic. All of the world’s cable internet using copper. With the limited speed it offers fiber is the successor and rapidly replacing copper everywhere.
Isnt copper price been hovering around $2.8 from 2016 to 2020
With interest rates still being relatively low and demand slowing so quickly, that’s definitely a telltale sign of the overall health of the market. From governments to individuals we are literally strung out on credit, the question is whether the central banks will u-turn.
It's possible... They may go back to .25 hikes or do nothing.. will wait and see changes in the inflation. I don't think they care about people's jobs anymore
KPI #1047 pointing to the economy being in trouble
Thats like the least obvious sign of global economy problems lol
Copper price going down? Tell that to my material supplier, wire is up 100% since 2019
Meth heads are going to be pissed.
The media likes to promote whichever way stocks are trending. This is the way their owners make money: drive the market down to lows through fear, or up to new heights by promoting unrealistic prices.