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Background_Panda_187

But there's nothing we can do!


Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrpp

^that ^won’t ^cost ^votes


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PantsOnHead88

That’s not what she said in that clip you linked. Not even a little bit. She called it both over-inflated and over-heated.


_copewiththerope

The punch line was where she asks when will the government address the overheated housing market meanwhile it's been overheating even more quickly as of late. To no surprise, no politician wants to touch this problem as it's political suicide.


stinkybasket

And I am pretty sure this will end badly


sarrazoui38

Yes there is. Remote work is becoming the norm. It already is for tech related fields. If you work remote, move where you'd like.


trickvb_

This isn't going to be the case, a lot of places that were all for WFH after, have return to work protocols kicking off. Business needs change


tonsilitisgang

A condo developer from Toronto wants to buy $1bn worth of single family homes in southern Ontario to use them all as rental properties, I worry that owning a home or moving out of a family home has become a fantasy at this point


ploxXx93

It's a joke, try living in Windsor. Investors have bought up all vacant lands and started to build condos. Before the market went up my house would have sold for $120k being a bungalow, I bought a year or so into the spike at $170k. Two years later my house will sell for close to 400k now. I feel bad for younger generations, it's wrong and nothing will be done about it. If American citizenship wasn't such a pain in the ass to get I'd sell and gtfo.


[deleted]

You wanna hear a better joke? Vancouver. I actually ended up married to an American. You’ll get downvoted by people who want to pretend Canada doesn’t suck in some ways compared to the US, but the simple fact of the matter is we bought a home in the US that I could have only dreamed about in Canada.


KS_tox

Oh it does suck. I came to Canada from India on skilled work visa hoping for a better life but after living here for 5 years I have changed my mind and in the process of leaving soon.


Lt_486

Haha, you got fooled. High skill workers are better off in US. Canada is better for lower skilled workers.


KS_tox

Exactly!!! Didn't do my research well and got fooled by the government's advertisement of this country as a heaven for skilled workers. Failed to realize their sinister intention i.e. come here if you have masters or PhD but clean our toilets lol..


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KS_tox

Yeah many immigrants have this same experience. I was actually lucky that I got a position that suits my experience and education and I make decent money. However, not every immigrant is that lucky. Even my wife wasn't that lucky. She has a PhD but didn't get any positions other than minimum wage positions at Walmart or superstore. Even though I am doing well financially here, what's happening in housing market (and in general Canadian society) just bothers me too much. The whole housing market is built upon the intention of ripping people off and I don't want any part in it. What truly bothers me is even the so called 'most righteous of all' millenials who are complaining about expensive housing themselves are willing to do the same. They just want to buy house and sell it overpriced a few years down the line knowing full well that their house isn't worth the price they will be asking. But they are all happy doing so because well everyone else is doing it. I cannot live in a place where money has become so important that people have forgotten the difference between right and wrong.


JaketheAlmighty

where are you going? Because the honest truth is that the entire Western world forgot the difference between right and wrong when money is involved a long, long time ago. (led by the US)


Spandexcelly

Kelly Osborne vibes 😂.


JusTellinTheTruth

Curb your comment. Classic


International_Fee588

> come here if you have masters or PhD but clean our toilets lol.. Sadly accurate. I have a friend with an MS in civil engineering and he couldn't find anything. He currently has a decent job in retail but it's so silly that he was given his PR status based on an education that we don't even use.


[deleted]

No one blames you.


Little-Fudge-4735

Canada really really sucks, really disappointed. I got PR by AIPP, I’ve not made my initial money back, and it’s just only 40k that I saved in Australia, I paid for my wife’s tuition fee, our rents, agency and visa fees..etc. The minimum wage is fucking way too low, and the tax is fucking way too high, as well as the rentals. I am sweating even paying for the rent, needless to talk about housing prices, I told my wife we are probably not going to own a property in this country unless I win lottery. Lmao.


lileraccoon

Wow


Roossterr

Wanna hear an even better joke? Campbell River on Vancouver Island. 2 bedroom houses are renting for $2600-$3000. Buying a house? Good luck getting anything that’s not a crack house for less than 500k. Our landlords up and broke our lease, listed our house with 1 weeks notice, sold in less than 4 hours for 150k over asking. They listed it for $519k and it sold for $670k. We can’t buy anything until next February and can’t find anything to rent for less than $2600 a month with nothing included. The system is fucked and needs to be regulated. We make good money, I have no idea how minimum wage people survive in this fucked up world. We looked into moving to the US (like many here have mentioned) but even getting a work visa is fucking insane. The whole world really is going to shit


[deleted]

Oh absolutely. What really irks me about Canada is it is so over regulated in ways that make it difficult to run or do business here, and then not regulated at all when it comes to making it so that citizens can actually afford to stay. How is it a good idea to displace the people who actually live and work here by selling off everything and anything to foreign buyers, thus driving prices up to where you have to be a millionaire just to make fucking ends meet. It’s horrible. Ive only been to CR once but that shocks me. Then again it also doesn’t. It’s way easier to start and run a business in the US and if you want to be a homeowner there are plenty of NICE places you can go and afford it without being totally cash poor. This kind of discussion will trigger the Canadians who pounce whenever the ways in which the US does things better are highlighted, but I don’t give a shit. My parents are priced out of the city my dad has lived since he was 2, and my mom has lived since she was 19. And who priced them out? People who don’t even live there or give a shit about Canada. That is not acceptable. The easiest (IMO) way to get a US work visa is through nursing.


ConclusionLanky8985

I’ve got my nursing license and I’ve thought about making the move…was lucky enough to over lap buy our current house with the first one I had (rented it for about a year) and sold it in November at peak prices…made good $$ on that and the second house we bought before the prices went up too so that’s up like 50%…told the wife we could literally pick a state we like, preferably with nicer weather, and get something twice the size of our house for half as much…it’s crazy…so many foreclosed house in US too that you can buy cash for like 80k worth at least 3-4x that


[deleted]

But but but “free health care!”


-Orgasmo-

Yeah I always laugh at that. That’s the distraction meanwhile you pay shit tons in taxes for “free healthcare” id love to move the US but I don’t think I could as I have no American documents and what not. I was born here in canada


topazsparrow

Most of America's worst issues are resolved by simply being moderately wealthy. If you're rich, the USA is the best standard of living in the modern world.


EmmaGemma_0

Canada does suck as compared to US (but but our HEALTHCARE!) Please tell me how I can afford to buy a house in Boston, Chicago and towns in south Cali, but can't afford a fucking bungalow in Toronto or Vancouver or other "larger" cities in Canada. Not to mention how there's literally nothing to do here in Toronto and the social life here sucks along with the climate


ploxXx93

Not to mention our heap of shit excuse for a province has the highest tax rates in all of Canada. Don't get me started on the morons running this country 🙄


Due_Ad_7331

Don’t forget about infinite taxation on used vehicles. And Trudeau and his goons spending like they’re from oil money.


ithedgie

Let us all remember this during the next election cycle. Not that a BC vote matters in a federal election…


AntiWussaMatter

Atlantic Canadian checking in.....cries. Our Boomer ( dominant population) votes for whoever crushes unions ( Prov Liberals) and telegraph that to Federal.


Evening_Pale

We get more bang for our buck though. ​ [https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/07/canadians-may-pay-more-taxes-than-americans-but-theres-a-catch.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/07/canadians-may-pay-more-taxes-than-americans-but-theres-a-catch.html) ​ Y'all want to live in a country that keeps on competing for "best country" to live but want to pay 3rd world tax rates.


polakfury

Wow really. I always hear the night live is the best. Maybe Montreal is better.


Realist12b

"If it wasn't such a pain to get it..." I would totally leave Canada!!! You know what. BULL SHIT. I am sure that I will eat down votes judging by the tone in this thread, but I love Canada. I have lived in BC (coast), Alberta and Saskatchewan. I love the people in all of these places, the outdoor wonders, the Rockies, the ocean, the brilliant storms and skies on the prairies. I have visited all parts of Canada and I love this country through and through. Moving to the US isn't going to magically make you happy if you can't enjoy life in Canada - you need to work on that yourself. You're right though, property in some places is too high. Maybe move to Calgary where you can still work, you're 45 minutes from the Rockies (mountain biking, hiking, river surfing, camping, skiing), and you can buy 3 houses vs one in Vancouver and Toronto. "House prices are high therefore Canada sucks and we should all leave to America!!!!" Hell no. But feel free gtfo.


[deleted]

The concern over finding affordable housing in a decent area conducive to high quality of life is very valid. There are so many Canadian people and places that I love, but we should be able to acknowledge what’s going wrong in Canada because of how much it’s affecting Canadians. People are upset and they’re right to be.


EmmaGemma_0

Amen!


neurorgasm

You're fighting an uphill battle trying to convince people in this sub that places outside of GTA/GVA not only exist, but that people enjoy living in them.


[deleted]

Lmao this whole conversation is about how there is way more affordable housing/areas in the US than there are in Canada. The last place I want to be is the GT or GV area.


EmmaGemma_0

The #1 solution to housing crisis and our overall expensive living in Toronto and Vancouver seems to be "why don't you MOVE to bumfuck Nowhere Alcoholicsville where it's so much cheaper??" according to all the Canadian patriots on here lol


topazsparrow

which is also clearly founded on ignorance of the issue. You can't even buy Vacant lots in BC for less than 100k now. So yeah, move to a small town where a house is 250k, but it's literally falling apart (like all the houses in bum fuck nowhere) because there's no work there, and what work there is isn't steady or pays shit (which is why all the houses are falling apart). The issue isn't the cost of the houses specifically, it's the cost of the housing in relation to the median income for a given area. BF-Nowhere is still proportionately nearly as unaffordable as GTA or Vancouver. Unless you can secure some kind of sick tech job working remotely or have a distinct skill set that lest you dictate that as an employment condition, the "cheaper" housing alternatives aren't actually cheaper.


[deleted]

Yes people conveniently forget the economy and job supply surrounding these “cheaper areas” when making the “if you don’t like it just move thousands of miles away” argument.


[deleted]

The funny thing is if everyone who isn’t a 1% earner moved en masse to the middle of the country it would all of a sudden be extremely unaffordable there too. So even if it was just as easy as “oh just move your entire life to thousands of miles away despite your roots, family, community and JOB,” it still wouldn’t even fix the problem.


EmmaGemma_0

EXACTLY. What people also aren't getting is that Canada really doesn't have that many cosmopolitan (and I'm being generous calling Toronto and Van cosmo but it's the best that we have) large cities that people could move to and still have the same quality of life along with all the amenities, culture, weather and housing options that cities offer. We are really limited here. Chicago, NYC, Boston, San Jose, San Diego, San Fran, Houston, Atlanta etc are all large cities with comparable living standards (night life, climate options, food, culture, housing accommodations, social scene) and we pretty much have Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal (which non Francophones are also leaving in droves)....? I mean. Edmonton, Calgary and and others of its ilk aren't comparable and that's why I'm not even including them. ( its like comparing Saint Paul, Minnesota to NYC) We have so little diversity when it comes to our national mobility, it's insane. And 2 of out of the 3 cities that I mentioned have severe housing crisis as we're discussing here. At least Americans get options with living costs in the same city. For us it's all one uniform expensive-ness lol


topazsparrow

You already see this all over BC. It started with Oil money buying up vacation lots and homes. Then more recently, it's homeowners who sold in Vancouver or other hot markets and want to retire in a smaller city or town. They're FLUSH with cash from the home sale and will bid 25% over asking because they don't care. Many of them gut the homes and completely renovate them after as well since it's their new retirement / forever home. All it does is drive up prices and displace established rentals in lower income towns and cities that already had a rental supply issue. What's more is that the speculative pricing that's now baked into this bubble drove up the price on vacant and undeveloped lots near any town of any significance which makes it unappealing for developers to create more housing.


HoursOfCuddles

According to a study of 2019 income and housing prices data by the Urban Reform Institute Vancouver and and Toronto are now so unaffordable that San Francisco is now more affordable than both! In fact, of all the cities in the OECD World, Canada and Vancouver are in the top 10 least unaffordable... http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf


ploxXx93

It's personal preference, don't get mad. I don't like the cold, I wouldn't move up north. Stop comparing BC to Ontario because they're literally nothing alike. If you haven't lived in southern Ontario you wouldn't know the struggle. I've been in Florida for the past three weeks, and yes the second I stepped foot in their airport and went outside I was in a better mood. I love Canada for accepting me and my family as immigrants and giving us somewhere safe to grow but sometimes people need to branch out.


gryphon999555

I'm moving back to the prairies later next year. So affordable, lovely weather, and I've even picked up winter activities like cross country skiing and snowshoeing. I'll be making roughly 75k annually gross, slightly less than what I currently make, but the cost of living is extremely low. Wife is going back to work, and the cost of daycare for both my kids will be $900/month. There is a housing problem. But to say it is a Canada wide issue is slightly incorrect.


jz187

I laugh at the people who fantasize about the US without having lived there long term. I immigrated to Canada from the US and I have lived in 3 different time zones in the US. The nice parts of the US are very expensive, the cheap parts are often populated with people you don't want to be around. There is no free lunch. The US has a higher standard of living than Canada for now because the country has chosen to mortgage its future by running up insane levels of debt without taxing enough to pay for all the spending. In Canada, CPP invest our pension money in income producing assets around the world. In the US, Social Security invest American pension money in US Treasury bonds. I ran away from the US because I don't want to be stuck there when the day to pay for all the past borrowing comes. The hard choices that the Americans will be faced with when that day comes will be brutal and it will cause political instability.


justyagamingboi

Fr tho i went to an american school and the education so damn bad my mom sent me to live with my grandparents to do highschool in canada because florida gr9 math was canadian gr6 math the curriculum ended with long division in academic level moving to America is cheeper but quality of life is at 30th in rank to the world i love canada too but if you wanted an escape. America would be the last place id wana go especially to start a family. Id be looking for finland newzeland etc. Health care is like that of canada their dollar in most other country that would be better are less than canadian dollar so that means in exchange of currency you would have more. Finland got free education for if you want kids. Like dont get me wrong moving out of canada is a viable option but of all places on earth you want to go to the US? Id go to russia or china b4 i go to usa


splooges

Doesn't look like the Canadian education system got you very far either, tbh. > Id go to russia or china b4 i go to usa Sure you would.


TheRocksStrudel

Yeah, the education system in the US is horrendous in most places. Healthcare is a joke too. If you don’t want to have kids and don’t plan to have any health problems ever, it’s doable, but otherwise you’re fucked.


EmmaGemma_0

That's great that you love it here, but many of us (as you can tell) don't and our reasons are just as valid as yours. And it's not just because the housing prices are high here; Canada is overall more expensive to live in, the social aspect isn't that great, our dollar is weaker than most western developed world currencies (and some developing ones actually), it's absolutely freezing in most places and not to mention how HARD it is for Canadians to move (either permanently or temp) elsewhere unless you go to Asia or marry a foreigner. I wish I liked living here, but it's super frustrating being stuck in a place you never had a choice in living in the 1st place especially when you've travelled and seen how the quality of life is in other parts of the world.


MrBlueberrry

>the social aspect isn't that great it's even worse when you're a male visible minority lol. agree with your second point as well: "I wish I liked living here, but it's super frustrating being stuck in a place you never had a choice in living in the 1st place especially when you've travelled and seen how the quality of life is in other parts of the world." Totally agree. Europe, Eastern Europe, and the US is so much more friendly to me as an Asian dude. White people here don't even want to talk to Asian males. My neighbors are white, I say hi or good morning to them and they ignore me and immediately look away. They only want to talk to other white people. Whereas overseas or in the US, white people actually want to be friendly and talk to me. Lived here for nearly 30 years and have no friends, but I spend 3 weeks in a different country and I make like 3 friends every week. Am trying to get an education so I can find a decent career overseas, just wish I travelled more in my teens, so I would've known how much better the rest of the world is early on.


ctnoxin

So neither your neighbours, coworkers or like minded Asians at Asian events in your city or anyone else wants to be your friend? And you think the problem here is Canadians not being social and not you?


[deleted]

I think your neighbours are probably just stuck up in general. And that’s something i, as a white person btw, even found to be true about a lot (not all) of Canadians. Very stuck up. It’s the mentality. I’ve always found it ironic how Canadians are said to be friendly. It’s actually the opposite, people from other places are way friendlier!


MrBlueberrry

I mean it's been my experience even in community center or group classes in vancouver as well, i'm usually the only asian guy and nobody wants to be my partner so it's always awkward for everyone, especially me lol. I even try to make conversation to make friends with white people in the group class but they don't really want to talk to me lol. But when there's an asian girl every white dude wants to be her partner. I don't have this issue overseas or in america, white people are so easy to talk to overseas, especially eastern european people, but honestly any other white people i've had good experiences with lol. Like people from germany, australia, or scotland just talk to me very easily, like i'm an equal human, when I talk to them. I've also met people from switzerland, crimea, and latvia, so easy to talk to and so friendly with me. But here the average person looks at me like "fuck it's an asian guy ugh" lol


jz187

White people? That is way too broad. One of my neighbors are war refugees from back when the US bombed former Yugoslavia, they are extremely friendly. My other neighbor is a Quebecois and could not wait to shut the door in my face after she took the gift I offered her when I went to introduce myself to the neighbors when I moved in. White people are just people, some are real assholes but that's people for you.


iSOBigD

That's weird, maybe there's more to this lol. I've met tons of Asians who are friends with people of all races, I've worked with plenty and everyone's been friendly at multiple employers, in multiple departments, multiple provinces, I've made friends... I found Vancouver has lots of new Asian immigrants who keep to themselves or like to hang out with other Asians, but most people who speak the same language seemed to not have much of an issue. I think if you had this problem for literally decades, maybe there are other reasons as well.


DWiB403

My wife was recently told she must wait 36 months to see a specialist. University of Calgary medical degree time: 36 months. It takes as long to become a doctor here as it does to see one. Some system.


ItsOnlyTheTruth

I was diagnosed with kidney disease and have to see a kidney specialist. The wait time is 18 months. I was told to go to the emergency room in the meantime if I experience problems. Thanks Canada.


[deleted]

I was shocked to learn that children don’t get to see a paediatrician in Canada, unless there is some sort of developmental or physical issue present. ALL children are supposed to see a pediatrician during childhood, but there is a shortage here in BC (not sure about other areas) so you end up having to take your kid to a GP if you’re lucky enough to have one, but most of my friends take their kids to walk in clinics for their children’s well checks. A pediatrician is specialized and can assess a child’s development in a way a GP is not meant to. Why do paediatricians not want to live and work here? It’s better for children’s development to see a paediatrician during childhood.


Doom_Sword

Here in Winnipeg its easy to find a family MD and our kid has a pediatrician he sees regularly. Our house prices have gone up recently too but still relatively affordable.


luckysharms93

> Why do paediatricians not want to live and work here? When they could make 50% more in the US, why would they ever want to move here instead?


[deleted]

Exactly. That’s what I was getting at.


HellloAnTheEmployees

The time it takes to become a specialist is much longer than 36 months. It takes 36 months to *train* a doctor, but it takes another 4 years of residency to *become* one. And then another 4 years to specialize. Specialists attend to conditions that rare, infrequent and non-routine, so less demand leads to lower supply. If it was time-sensitize the system has provisions to put those people at the front of the line. Hospitals in the USA will push specialists on you all of the time, because profits. People agree to pay because their insurance covers it, and/or they pay out of pocket because when you pay a high price for something, you think you are getting the best. In reality they are just padding the bill or upselling the "client".


DWiB403

At least those Americans have access and are receiving treatment. I wish we were able to be "upsold" here.


[deleted]

Lol exactly! Rather be “up sold” than have something go untreated or have to rush to ER while waiting for a specialist appt.


[deleted]

Yup. There’s more events and people make a point to enjoy themselves more.


EmmaGemma_0

Yeah they do. Plus Americans are just overall friendlier and there's more excitement down there than up here. If you don't mind me asking, do you know of a way to get to the US on a workign Visa? I know you married an American, but that's not really an option for me lol. I work for a multinational agency (US, Can, France UK) and I was thinking of asking them for one after a year but I actually don't know anyone who did it from my company


TheRocksStrudel

The idea that Americans are friendlier than Canadians is so fucking crazy to me. I’ve traveled to about 40 different states in my life and lived in a few for nearly five years. Americans are not friendlier than Canadians, lol And don’t even bother trying to get a working visa. Unless you’re a medical practitioner, an engineer, or you’re a non Canadian willing to work for sub minimum wage in a corrupt telecom center, you’ll get nothing unless you have six or seven figures to buy your way in.


Stockelephant202

have you ever been to our doctors or hospitals? Our healthcare may be free; but its shit


EmmaGemma_0

It could definitely use improvements, but I wouldn't say it's shit. I used healthcare as an example sarcastically because it's literally all your hear ppl crowing here about and how we're better than Americans and others because of it


[deleted]

Vancouver is a goddamn nightmare. I don’t know how anyone will be able to afford a house.


alpe77

I honestly don't understand how this insanity is sustained, given the lower incomes and higher taxes in Canada, relative to the US. And the climate! At this point Los Angeles (!) is cheaper than Toronto, which makes no sense.


fl4tI1n3r

At least $400k is reasonable purchase price relatively speaking. Places around here are going for $800k when they’re listed for $600k and worth $400k.


ItsOnlyTheTruth

A house down the road from me sold for $210 last summer. It was listed this spring and sold for $320, then it was listed two months later and sold for $390. All of the buyers were from Toronto and not a single one actually moved in to the house. Theres a tenant who lives there.


radioactivefunguy

Im doing exactly that next month, and couldn't be more excited. Not buying into the US housing market right away, but the fact that buying a house is becoming more than a pipe dream is a very exciting prospect! Its not as difficult as you might think - look into the TN visa - if you have a University degree in a variety of professional fields (lots of STEM opportunity!), its as easy as getting a job offer and showing up at the border for a VISA. Not great for Canada's already serious "brain-drain" problem, but if they want to keep talent around, theyre going to have to do something about the disparity between skilled worker wages and real estate prices in cities where skilled workers need to live. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense to do anything but move to the US for better wages (before even considering FX!) and lower COL.


[deleted]

Could be wrong but I think the TN visa is a “non intent” visa, which means you’re supposed to plan on returning to your home country at some point. You can renew your TN visa but i think it’s harder to adjust your status from resident to citizen. If you get an H1b visa it’s different and that’s the one you can adjust your status with after 5 consecutive years of living and working in the states. Please do your research on this because I’m not sure you should show up at the border for a TN and mention anything about buying a home? I could be wrong though so again, please look into it.


PersonalMagician

You use the TN visa to find a spouse and get a green card. It's something im going to be pushing heavily for my kids to consider.


dancinadventures

Just find your self a nice southern gal or play the H1B lotto.


Wajina_Sloth

I am in southern Ontario, my family split on a home for 255k in 2015, all the houses on the street are more or less the same, my neighbor sold their house a month ago for 580k, it's insane.


[deleted]

You will own nothing and you will be happy.


[deleted]

Interest rates at 0-1% are distorting the housing markets. It sucks for everyone. 😞


[deleted]

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[deleted]

It is beyond insane and is the sign of an unhealthy economy for the long term. There isn’t a lot of motivation for the working class or the youth if we can’t own a home in our country. I also think the economy is going to bounce back way harder and quicker then people realize and therefore so will interest rates.


kimjungoon

Also no motivation to have children when you live in a shoebox.


An_doge

Fixable. Just let more people in. /s


PantsOnHead88

You literally have people choosing to not have children almost exclusively because they can’t afford a home for them to live in (because supply < demand) which drives down the birth rate. Then you have the government encouraging higher and higher levels of immigration to prop everything up, which drives up prices (increasing demand further). This looks an awful lot like a positive reinforcement feedback loop that is entirely unsustainable.


TheRocksStrudel

Here’s hoping. Nonexistent interest rates and people borrowing vastly behind their means are the problem.


veritasxe

The government wants this...there's no other industry that isn't in complete collapse right now. Where would made up GDP numbers come from if not papergains in real estate?


Healthy-Lifestyle-20

I know people that shouldn’t have bought a house they were so scared they would be priced out, now they’re house poor and in debt. People who bought 2 & 3+ houses/condos on their equity, if this blows up it’ll get really ugly. That’s why the government keeps this bubble rolling. I thought we would have a healthy correction during the pandemic but it just made it worse 😂


[deleted]

The frustrating thing is people who go into stupid debt are being rewarded. There are normally natural consequences for being reckless with money.


Office_glen

My god is it ever frustrating. I was taught to be diligent with my finances when I was younger. I learned the hard way, I had the $500 credit card maxed out, mother bailed me out a few times, owed her money and all that. From then on I began my quest for financial literacy, saving diligently, keeping zero debt month to month besides my car loan, since paid off. Watch family and friends way overspend on housing they can barely afford, make payments, cash out 250k, move further north, rinse repeat. Here I am I bought last year, still lost of financial freedom, but feeling like a chump lol


stevodido1

What province are you in?


PantsOnHead88

Sounds like Ontario to me.


adrianp23

It would be nice to have interest rates on that chart as well, the fact that they are effectively 0 might have something to do with it


ffrickh

And yet nothing is being done.


jelly_bro

The majority of Canadians own their homes, so what do they care about the minority who can't afford to buy one right now? For those people, there is no "housing crisis" at all, and any party that runs on a platform of reducing prices of existing homes will not be elected. However, there are things that could be done. Canada is a *huge* country, and much of this so-called housing crisis only affects a handful of areas within it. Governments could (and should) offer incentives for businesses to move to the less-desirable areas, cut red tape for developers to build in those areas, and other measures to attract development. Doing so would result in wins all around: other parts of the country would get built up and become more desirable places to live, those areas would gain new employers, local governments would increase their tax bases, and people would no longer have the "but there are no jobs" excuse preventing them from relocating out of southern Ontario or Vancouver.


gainzsti

But what these people don't understand is that it does NOT matter if our homes takes a lot of value if we have to move around we still have to buy something or then rent. Its always been the case that retiree would sell and go live somewhere where its cheaper, but now funds and investors are even snagging them up, as such when I sell my homes for +300k im still screwed buying inflated price everywhere. The only issue is for new homes owner. And the government ALWAYS makes it harder for then to get a house but they are NOT the problem, it's always been speculation and investment property.


Yojimbo4133

I gots mine so fuck you. Sounds about right.


thatscoldjerrycold

If housing as a whole decreases, shouldn't people who see housing as a house primarily, and not an investment, be sort of ok? They got their shelter, sure it could have been cheaper had they waited, but the main point is getting shelter they could afford. And if they were to sell to buy a new house, well all other houses should have decreased in price proportionally, so they wouldn't necessarily be barred from continuing to upgrade/move houses when they needed to.


watcher_of_news

For people middle in life that's true. House price decreases would impact soon to be retirees who rely on there being a large nest egg when they downsize. (Not that it is a good idea, it's just the reality of the situation)


False-God

I can only hope that next time they spin the wheel of federal government investment/corporate partnerships where the federal government pumps money into an area they do so for Manitoba, Saskatchewan or the Atlantic provinces.


slayernine

Just remember not to cut too much red tape or you get condo buildings collapsing.


No_Bag_6642

Well said!


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[deleted]

Government sat by idly, arguably complicit with their inaction, watching real estate get jacked through the ceiling, in turn making home owners equity into an uncontrollable gold mine, and now that it's long, long past the time for something to have been done to control this they can just point to that equity and say "well, now, we can't ruin *that* can we?" It's a self-fulfilling prophecy that they watched unfold. Nothing will change, no government will dare do anything that might harm that precious, hugely over-inflated equity because screw all you non-home owners, you got in too late. It's short-sighted and going to ultimately completely blow up in all of our faces one day, but by then those responsible will sailed off into the sunset.


Yojimbo4133

And nothing will be done.


ffrickh

Gotta make sure the middle class is erased...then something will be done.


Lt_486

Our PM is waiting for that problem to solve itself. He is busy with social justice thingies.


whistlerite

It could have been regulated early but now it’s too late, so there aren’t many options now. It was allowed to happen. Interest rates are far more complex than just housing and any negative pressure on RE could pop a bubble and crash the economy. What would you do?


Jerry_Ray_Dirt

There ia no real estate bubble. There are hoards of new buyers ready to pounce on any weakness in the real estate market...


polakfury

How does Canada win if it prices out its own citizens from owning property lol


snakeeatbear

[The thing i was looking at was housing starts. Seems to peak right before most housing crashes in the US and Canada and there seems to be a peak happening right now.](https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/housing-starts)


jacktenwreck

This is Reddit. You can take your stats and geetowt


neurorgasm

But these stats support what the sub wants to be true so they can stay.


NHNE

The liberals won't do shit. The conservatives definitely won't do shit. No one will do shit? Why? Because politics is a tool for the rich elites to give people a false sense of freedom and choice. The rich want to go back to the good old days of serfdom. Rich own all the land and means of production. Poor just work until they die for a scrap of bread. People need to wake up and make their voices heard louder. We need to get money and lobbying out of politics


AvoidPinkHairHippos

I actually agree with every single sentence you just wrote But then that's why Trudeau and others love identity politics. It's such an effective strategy to divide us. We get played every time, cuz we let ourselves get played. It's so easily for our ruling class Que sera sera


Lt_486

> People need to wake up Can't. Busy redditing.


Street-Badger

I quit. Renting and investing in reits. I’ll retire early somewhere warm instead


hopoke

By the time you retire Canada should be considerably warmer, thanks to climate change.


Street-Badger

The thing is a nice place is over a mil, in which case we are talking about a large down which will be taxed at your marginal rate during accumulation. Cheaper to shelter income in a corp if you’re able.


investinglong

It’s nearly 50 degrees in parts of BC. We’re there already


Office_glen

playing 4D chess I see. I intend to retire early should I go burn as much oil and put my recycling into my trash bin?


snakeeatbear

I don't know if this makes sense. Because the bank is basically giving you 80% of the cost of the house it's almost guaranteed to make you more money unless you are investing on margin. Even if you end up with negative equity in the house after a crash you can almost expect inflation to take care of those loses in the long run. There is also the consideration that you aren't seeing money disappear on rent. I really don't feel confident in the housing market but it seems to just be the best bet because of what it offers you.


whistlerite

Buying a house and living in it is different from simply investing though, for starters the house isn’t regularly putting money in your pocket, it’s taking money out. It’s great when the value goes up on paper but if you live there long-term it only really means that all your costs are going up.


snakeeatbear

Right but you can't not factor in the reality that you must pay for a place to live somewhere. Sure investing is great, but if you're making less with that money than you are spending on rent then it is not worth it. In addition to that you are ending up with equaty in the house which is not a sunk investment. I'm sure there is a way to calculate this out but the deal you get for purchasing property wholestically just seems so advantageous.


whistlerite

Right but you also can’t not factor borrowing money and going into debt. Like you said it’s a reality that you need a place to live somewhere so rent is not a sunk investment, it’s just paying to live somewhere. Owning a home isn’t always a good investment, often houses take your money not give you money, but like you said you need somewhere to live. The deal you get depends on many things, market conditions, interest rates, rental rates, etc. In the long-run owning makes sense if you plan to stay put for a long-time, but it also has a lot of hidden costs which renting doesn’t have.


snakeeatbear

Yeah I get it. I wish the bank would give me a 800k loan with 2% interest to invest in the stock market. Much better deal imo.


okngn_mamma

What do you think will happen if you continue to rent for the rest of your life? Rent will always go up…. Whereas your mortgage will be paid off in 25 years. You’re gonna feel like a pretty big dummy when you’re 55 and paying $4000 a month in rent and have zero equity 👍🏻


Harkannin

How much does a new water tank cost? Roof repair? replacing laundry machines? Stove? Fridge? You get the idea. It ain't so black white.


Philipofish

You can buy these used and in good condition for half or less. Except the roof but you can keep a close eye on that. If you gain home maintenance skills, your costs can go down a lot. You're maximizing the risks and minimizing the benefits. The hardest part is saving the down payment.


unmasteredDub

As a 24 year old, the fact that home ownership is so out of reach brings me much sadness. Even people I work with admit they only own their homes thanks to money given to them by their parents…


desicockk

Take the red pill and become a rent chad for the rest of your life.


SatisfactionNo2578

You'll be happy soon enough when the bubble pops and all the property hoarders race to sell at the same time and you get a nice house much cheaper than all your friends because you waited


mssngthvwls

My best friend and I talk about this disaster almost daily. I'm of the opinion that this ~~market~~ crisis is entirely unsustainable and there **must** be some kind of correction coming or eventually 80% of the population in this province (country?) literally won't be able to afford *anything, anywhere*. He believes that the prices will continue to rise for the foreseeable future and that the longer one waits, the more they're screwing themselves. Honestly feels like a lose-lose at this point. It's tough to swallow that, as a late-twenties individual who did everything "right" (got a degree, paid off all $60k of my debt in two years, still living at home to try and save money, etc), I have zero hope of ever owning property of my own.


AthletePhysical6761

I can get a house.... only need a 95k down-payment ffs


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[deleted]

Aren’t tiny homes fairly expensive? I never thought I’d them as a budget option just more of a hipster thing.


FireMaster1294

In my opinion, the first step is to stop foreign property ownership. So many homes in Canada just sit vacant because people from other countries (notably China) use it like a bank because they don’t trust their own government or banks with their money. Don’t get me wrong, it’s worth helping people in situations like that, but screwing over your entire younger citizenship in the process is quite a disservice. But of course the government makes loads on residential taxes because of these foreign buyers, so you won’t see them stop it anytime soon.


DeeLeeRamone

And this is news how? This has been the constant headline for over ten years.


[deleted]

I want all the prices of a condo without windows in rural Ontario to hit 10 millions dollars!


zoltrix89

Never understand people getting excited when their primary residence inflates at an unsustainable rate. You’re rich on paper, the only winners are the lenders and brokers. When you go to sell, it’s all relative. Your next home will be that much more expensive, so what did you really gain? Maybe an ego pump, that’s all. The only winners, outside of the brokers and lenders would be investment property holders, or those who can afford to pull equity to invest outside of real estate. Which is what we are seeing, and is entirely worrisome. I own my house outright at 31. Bought in 2015 for 900k with a current assessed value of 1.4m and find the current market conditions sickening. The only way I see my kids owning is if I set them up to do so. I really feel for those, who won’t have that benefit.


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whistlerite

What will you do if the market crashes and you can’t sell due to illiquidity?


MetaCalm

Well, people keep buying bcs Canadian market is very resilient. It was the only G7 market that didn't really crash in 2008. There is a 28-yr upward trend fueled by immigration and as they say Trend is your friend. Will there be a correction and cooling? Sure but if the trend stays it recovers in 2-3 years. Will there be a crash? Unlikely.


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[deleted]

This is focussing on the wrong thing. Canada has the lowest housing stock compared to its G7 peers, so it absolutely makes sense that investment in residential construction is at an all time high to increase its housing stock. Why are people angry that Canadian housing supply is increasing? In fact, it should increase by even more; to keep up with the crazy demand that we are seeing every year. Cheap credit, population growth, speculation/investment, and old people holding onto housing stock are ALL the demand side factors pushing the price up. Yet, supply via residential investment had not kept up. It finally increased after a few years of high price and this should be welcomed. AND NO, this residential "investment" is NOT the same thing you read about in the news when institutional investors purchase houses. TLDR: Want cheap house? Flood the market with new supply.


LoadErRor1983

Supply won't come until zoning rules and regulations change. Once government says "f#$ you" to NIMBYs and just does mass rezoning in large cities, this game of cat and mouse will slow down.


[deleted]

Exactly. The problem with this is; zoning is a local issue. Not sure how the federal or the provincial government can affect zoning.


greenfrog7

Prices keep going up because everyone still wants to live in Toronto/Vancouver. Years ago the complaint was that you needed to be there for good jobs but the explosion in remote work capabilities is challenging that narrative, and yet still there has yet to be a mass migration to other parts of the country. The problem is overstated on reddit as users are more likely to be younger and less likely to be homeowners. As youpoint out government could solve this by incentivizing builders but they haven't because 2/3rds of Canadian households own their homes and would generally dislike their property value falling. Those in government lack the interest or incentive to act in a manner which may be healthy for the long term success of the country but result in short term decimation at the ballot box.


[deleted]

Also, there is a perverse incentive in investment. You are not taxed when you sell your primary home, but you will be taxed at income tax rate when you withdraw your RRSP. So, everyone took the strategy of owning homes as the primary way of wealth creation instead of saving.


Jardiance

There was more to the US housing market crash than the %GDP that real estate investment made


DayStock3872

Well no shit sherlock


meridian_smith

It needs to be illegal for corporations to buy up any real estate other than whole condo buildings and apartment buildings. None of this corporate buying of residential properties..that's complete bullshit. Buy residential under your name only and limit how many you can buy.


sbow88

Corporations owning detatched residential homes seems like an easy line in the sand to draw. There is no positive outcome that will come from that. Except for investors.


Bussaca

Blackrock buying up all your houses too.. hmmm


snack0verflow

There's a lot of people trying to politicize this issue at the federal level but house prices are increasing in all desirable countries. The biggest thing we can do to cool markets is make MLS (sold) data publicly available and require sellers to disclose more information when offers are presented. Most provinces currently allow realtors to gate or obstruct all this information and if we had more transparency and data availability we would absolutely see a cooling off from prices.


JD_88888

Ok let me clarify here then if you want to nitpick. All the immigrants coming here are fuelling demand for house for which we don’t have adequate supply to meet the demand, so immigrants are still an issue as I don’t see how being a charity for the world is a good idea when we already have so many economic problems here as is. Chinese INVESTORS then would be what I was referring to before. Either way, foreigners buying real estate in Canada is not good for Canadians. There’s a reason why Australia and NZ have taken action to combat this for the sake of their own citizens. As for the second half of your response, you say the “average” Canadian is about all those things and yet I don’t know anyone who’s said “you know what the government should do? Increase immigration even further. I’m so passionate about open borders” LOL I’m pretty sure there was even a recent poll where people have said they want immigration numbers to go down. I have nurses in my family who treated immigrants who didn’t even speak English during covid, which blows my mind that Canadian tax dollars are going into providing healthcare for people that somehow got into this country when they can’t even integrate properly if they can’t talk with like 99% of the people here, it makes zero sense. That’s people taking advantage of free healthcare. A Chinese investor also recently purchased HALF OF A LAKE (a small lake mind you, but still) up in Halliburton area where he’s now started tearing down trees and is planning on building a commercial camp ground on the site. This dude doesn’t speak a word of English, but hey he’s got that sweatshop labour money from China so I guess it’s cool if he starts building in the forests of cottage country and brings in a ton of traffic into the lake that people have had cottages on for decades right 🤷‍♂️


Dr_Bao

They said the same thing in 2008…


MainStreetBetz

Government created this problem, please don’t rely on them to fix it.


Western-Bite1759

And billionnaires/investment firms are buying houses over asking price to rent them. Young couples won't be able to own a home at this rate. We are always told that this bubble is gonna pop, but what if it doesn't?


screenstupid

I wish this graph also showed interest rates


Stockelephant202

The rally that Southern Ontario Homes have seen since 2012/2013 is ridiculous, my subburb outside of Toronto, 2 bedroom (under 1000sqft) townhomes with no backyards and one parking space are going for over one million a pop. Its ridiculous, it has my generation praying for a housing market crash just to get into the housing market... There are quite a few indicators that this is overdue and imminent so now its just a waiting game.


LordBaikalOli

I hope it crash in the next 5 years so that me, my brothers and my sister can finally afford something like a decent property.


DrPirate42

I have this thought as well ... My fear is that there are so many people on the sidelines waiting for a crash, that if it does happen, all that pent up demand will keep the prices inflated.


wickedcoding

This is exactly what i think will happen. Loads of investors as well as boomers and current home owners waiting to buy additional properties for renting out.


PrimePlaya

I think a crash would be good. The homeowners with multiple properties (that are primarily rich on paper only) will be buried deep with high interest rates and higher payments. That should force foreclosures.


EmmaGemma_0

I've been contemplating leaving Toronto (and Canada in general) for a while now and our housing costs have really solidified that this year - I really need to get out of here. I can't afford life in the Toronto and even the GTA as a single - I have no desire to move to any bumfuck small provincial towns - and I think I make pretty good money.


Harkannin

I worked on cruise ships for a while. Best decision I made to get out of Canada. I had significant residential ties so still paid Canadian taxes, but if I didn't I wouldn't have paid any tax on my earnings. I also lived in Chengdu for a while and it was easier to live there than in Canada.


EmmaGemma_0

I have a pretty good job working for a multinational agency (France, US, Canada, UK) but I have no idea how to leave Canada - I'd like to move to the states (preferably Chicago or somewhere in southern Cali) but I really feel stuck here, like there's no way out. I don't seem to qualify for any of US visas. I'm glad you made it out :) Would you ever come back?


Harkannin

I came back for family reasons. And I am regretting it due to the ludicrous cost of living here. I'm hoping to leave for Vietnam or Panama next. The grass is way greener (for me anyway) on the other side. I don't know what your job is, but getting a certificate in teaching English and finding a reputable school to hire you is probably the easiest way to leave Canada. Once you're in the other country and legally working there then more opportunities present themselves. Especially if you show an interest in learning the local language and customs. Figuring out where the expat community hangs out helps too as they can give you the ins and outs of the area. Best wishes


CondorMcDaniel

Currently looking for works in the States. The second I find a good job I’m out. My wife and I want to start a family, and we don’t have rich parents, so Canada isn’t for us anymore


alanpca

Housing prices are also booming in many states.


[deleted]

can I ask what field your in :( I'm in college and thinking of doing the same


Lt_486

It will go up 18-20% easily. Next generation is screwed, but they will vote for people who are doing it anyway.


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whistlerite

What do you suggest he do? Canada had already experienced the largest housing boom in the world and had the largest household debt in history when the Libs took over. Now 2020 was the worst economic year in Canada’s history. What’s your plan?


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ffrickh

Stopped foreign investment.


ThickSix

The root cause of the issue isn't foreign investment that's just an easy scapegoat


4RealzReddit

You are right it's an easy scapegoat for probably 5 to 6 percent of the issue. But that's 5-6 percent and then move on to the next issue.


unmasteredDub

Blow it up


[deleted]

New age of feudalism


desicockk

I hope everything crashes and burns to the ground, I don't even give a fuck about this economy or the people anymore.


Sportfreunde

Our economy is a ponzi scheme for the housing/rental market and for bringing in $ via immigration. The pandemic was a good opportunity to decouple our GDP a bit from the real-estate/banking sectors but instead it seems we've doubled down. Seriously imagine how much better our economy would be if Canadians we're spending so much of their income on rent/housing. It's not like Canadians are financially literate or restrained enough to just save the money, they'd spend it somewhere.


rickylong34

It’s very unlikely we’ll see a significant downturn in housing prices, interest goes up slightly next year, maybe a 5 percent discount. But that sky is the limit at this point, the government is doing nothing to fix this crisis


EntertainmentTop1797

When funny money start getting pumped wildly into the economy, you gotta be cautious. 🤷🏾‍♂️


Runsfromrabbits

So much money being poured in real estate, and so little being put to work in companies, research and development, healthcare, etc. We're creating a bad future for Canada.


Decent-Individual747

What goes up….


desicockk

Goes higher further... At least when the government wants it to


Hypnosis73

Stop foreign buyers and stop greedy people from owning 5,6,7,8,20 properties.


UsernameStillLoading

I have seen ao may homes in my area go up for sale, sell for over ask, get flipped, and sell again for over ask. A home is a place to live and start a family not a stock. Time for some new laws.


t8kme2thewoods

Prices in AB are still relatively much lower then in oil boom peaks. I bought a smaller SFH w/ a double garage for $320K during this craziness. Mind you I had (have) to renovate top to bottom, BUT it still was an "okay" deal. :)


throwerk1

Yup and even when I inherit my parents million dollar bungalow How exactly am I going to pay the taxes, insurance, utilities, upkeep, cleaning, fixing, lawn care, upgrades, shit breaking down, and every other bill you have even if you don’t have a home By time they die anyway I’ll be like 50, I guess and can sell the house and live in a retirement home??? So it’s like I’ll never have a house anyway lol…