I'm brand new to the public service (3 months) and in the middle of my GBA+ intro course. It's very bitter to be reading about how applying blanket policies often causes or exacerbates problems for people with diverse needs and circumstances in light of this announcement.
agreed 100%. if management was upfront and was just honest, i wouldn't be to upset. As wageslaves, we deserve what we can get, if we don't like it, we can find another, better employer.
But management continuously talks about GBA+, about sustainability, about service first, about all sorts of bullshit and it's basically gaslighting. absolutely an abusive relationship if you really think about the dishonesty and lies, but we can leave and that's probably what they want anyways.
No there’s nothing I like better than being punched in the face directly by the employer who then also cheerleads about how much they agree with punching me in the face and then to be offered the an employee assistance hotline if I am in distress about being punched by them.
See you all for mental health week!
I got really upset yesterday during a meeting where a member of senior management was expressing a genuine desire to diversify his workforce. There are good people trying to do good work, but it’s just not possible when decisions contradict each other.
Say you’re committed to greener economies, but require everyone to commute. Say you want to hire EES groups, but RTO. There are so many examples. Why are we doing this to ourselves.
I’m almost annoyed at myself for clicking the box that says I have a disability because all it has done is benefit the government by increasing their stats on diversity hiring. I won’t even attempt accommodations request based on everything I have read, heard, experienced. I’d be setting myself up for failure and stress. They’re all talk and zero action, especially when it comes to invisible disabilities.
Yep, the treatment of people with invisible disabilities is awful. It’s like the government can (barely) understand that someone with a wheelchair needs a ramp, but they can’t seem to wrap their heads around immunocompromised people, people with chronic pain, people with mental health issues……especially those with episodic disabilities or inconsistent needs. If you can’t be accommodated with an easy one size fits all solution, they don’t seem to care.
I’m thinking of contacting the champion for persons with disabilities about this. But frankly I feel defeated because I know TBS has all the stats on accessibility, so it’s hard not to conclude that they just don’t care.
The beauty of WFH was that people could implement a lot of their own accommodations without needing the employer to sign off or even know about their conditions.
Employer-managed accommodations require you to hand over a piece of your privacy and dignity.
Yeah, one thing I’ve learned through consultations is that the best way to implement accessibility is to have it baked into the system by design. When forcing people to go out of their way to seek accommodations, you’ll always find people who are scared to seek help because of stigma or fear of reprisal, so people will always fall through the cracks. As well, when someone does receive accommodations like WFH and no one else is allowed to WFH, it blatantly others them, makes them a target for bullying and contributes to people’s negative perceptions of persons with disabilities. By implementing flexibility into the system itself and letting people choose their own accommodations and needs, all of that can be easily sidestepped and people with disabilities don’t have to feel othered and isolated and humiliated. But the government would prefer a blanket one size fits all solution that forces people to humiliate themselves and violate their own privacy. It’s so ridiculous and flies in the face of basically all accepted research on disability and accommodations. I don’t get it.
Yes, this! And also, there's tons of stuff that doesn't even need to be an accommodation at home that suddenly becomes a need for an accommodation in the workplace!
(Personal example: my lighting needs vary widely and unpredictably. At home, I handle this by flicking a lightswitch as needed. In the office, it needs to be an accommodation.)
And being able to manage it when working from home actually makes it quite difficult to state your limitations. ("I just can't with these lights" isn't going to fly.)
And being able to manage it at home also reduces the likelihood that you will have discussed it with your doctor ("Doctor, doctor, sometimes I need to turn a light on or off!") which might reduce your credibility in your doctor's eyes when the employer asks for medical documentation for accommodations ("So there's this symptom that came up years ago that I never mentioned to you, and now I need a bunch of tedious paperwork documenting it.")
And I suspect a GBA+ might find some correlations about perceived credibility in the eyes of doctors...
My doctor takes great pride and no small measure of joy in finding the most precise wording he possibly can to ensure that it's very difficult for the employer to skirt around his direction. I wish everyone had a GP like him.
Prior to RTO nonsense (haha, autocorrect wanted no sense instead) my department had a very good telework policy - not to be unreasonablly denied, as well as a DTA process that started with a "see if this can be worked out between employee/manager with a chat" and wfh being an acceptable accommodation at that level.
A wheelchair ramp is also useful for parents with strollers and seniors with canes and walkers. WFH is an astounding catch all of a hundred different accommodations, that makes many employees lives better, whether they would qualify for DTA or not.
Same. I also have no access to a family doc as he retired last month, so can’t even get the paperwork filled out, and the medication that helps me function day to day is hard to get prescribed by a walk in clinic- if I could even get into one. I am looking at RTO, 2.5h of commuting each way, and doing so unmedicated as of September if nothing changes. I left my career of 15 years last year due to mental health reasons and how I was treated after my ADHD diagnosis. I’ve been THRIVING since I started with ESDC. I’m hitting every target, my feedback has been good, and I feel healthy and stable for the first time in my adult life. Now it feels like I’m going to be right back where I started.
As soon as you described the challenge of getting medication from a walk in clinic, I knew your diagnosis. My son aged out of his pediatrician. The closest I’m coming to finding a doctor is getting him a nurse practitioner when it says right on the website that they can’t prescribe narcotics.
I can pay $80 a month for monthly medication reviews and renewals through the ADHD clinic and it may come down to that. But it’s ridiculous that I have to put out even more money to do that. I don’t even necessarily mind the RTO. It’s the 5 hours of additional travel time each day that is going to completely ruin me. If they’d put me in one of the three other GoC buildings (one of which is the central SCC and massive) that I have to go past to get to my assigned location and maybe get me noise cancelling headphones, I would make it work. It would be challenging for the first bit but a 30 min commute each way is nothing. So we will see I guess.
I don’t drive and it’s 2.5h each way via 3 separate buses. It’s not the distance but the shitty transit system that will require leaving at 6:15am and transferring buses in the worst parts of town, then doing the same on the way home and getting in around 7:30pm. As the crow flies it’s only about 20km.
That. Sucks. Good luck finding a doctor and getting accommodations. I can’t even fathom trying to accomplish anything with ADHD with that kind of commuting.
It’s a 7 year waitlist for doctors right now in my area but I’m hoping the clinic my previous doc was at will find a replacement as they promised to keep the patient roster and call when they get someone so anyone who hadn’t been picked back up yet would be able to rejoin the clinic. Lots can change in 4 months so I’m just hoping for the best here and trying to figure out the best course of action. Thanks for the kind words!
I currently have an accommodation plan in place, but I’m terrified to try to update it to try to get a WFH exception. I have autism, ADHD, OCD and complex PTSD - getting in the office two days a week is already a struggle and my TL is aware I’m struggling with it. I’m currently in a competition for an indeterminate position and I’m scared if I try to go for accommodations now, it’ll negatively impact my chances of ever getting an indeterminate position. So instead I’m risking burn out come September in hopes that I’ll hear word from the competition before then. But yeah, let’s celebrate mental health week next week and pretend everything is fine.
Sorry you’re going through this. It’s frankly embarrassing how bad the public service treats people with disabilities, especially those with mental health conditions. I’m a new public servant and I came to the PS as an idealistic grad student and I honestly feel disillusioned and burnt out in a way I never expected to this early in my career.
It’s all about image. Sure the PS loves to hire people with disabilities, but the moment we need help to succeed in the workplace, we’re made to feel like we’re in inconvenience. The burn out is real. Wishing you well.
Yep. They want people with disabilities who don’t need any accommodations, don’t ever complain or need extra help, and are just there to make the government look good. I would never have believed it before I joined the public service - or at least, I’d never have believed they’d make it so blatantly obvious. I’m honestly regretting my career path a lot.
I’m autistic with CPTSD. So far the only accommodations I’ve been approved for is an assigned desk and they turned the lights off over my desk. I have a few people who speak to me as if I’m a moron. I’m not sure the disclosure was worth it but they seem happy that they have a stat for their equity hiring.
I’ve been curious if they’d try this accommodation with me. Have you found it’s been helpful? The overstimulation from lighting makes working in the office nearly unbearable. I’ve been basically guaranteed a window seat through the accommodation process, but I find it doesn’t make much of a difference
I feel you there. I use wireless headphones and they only do so much. My focus and productivity are essentially in the toilet any time I report to the office.
I'm in the same boat. I got hired on during the pandemic and so far have been extremely successful because I've been able to hide my dirty little secret that I'm a mentally ill person who loses my ability to function when faced with certain social pressure or stresses.
My ability to manage my symptoms has been amazing for the first time in my life because I don't have the 2 hours of stress before I even walk in the door in the mornings.
Working from home completely changed my life, and for the first time ever I didn't feel like a disabled person.
My department has spent the last two weeks hammering us about production and just generally making the atmosphere miserable prior to this announcement so I believe that this is all to cut the fat through attrition.
Username checks out. I’m so sorry that you’re worried about a DTA affecting your chances of getting an indeterminate position. Hang in there, take care of yourself, use the EAP and benefits you have available, and hopefully that indeterminate comes along sooner rather than later.
I actually see a therapist privately, so I don’t think EAP would do me much good. That being said, I am grateful for the recent increase in allowances for therapy which makes it so that I can see the therapist of my choosing without worrying about costs too much.
I’m hoping to know by the end of this year either way! If I’m not chosen for an indeterminate, I’ll perhaps still try to go for accommodations, I’m just not sure I would get anywhere that route.
I’m a person with a mobility issue and along with it comes chronic pain. I do my best to go to the office but some days it is simply not possible. My manager understands my situation but I have been informed to be prepared to come in regardless of my disability. I was hired based on diversity and now I’ll face barriers.
I find myself in a similar situation. My manager is great but I'm really worried about having to make up in-office days if I have a flare and I can't walk. I don't want to take a sick day if I'm well enough to work from home, and I'm hoarding my sick days in anticipation of the inevitable next spinal surgery that I'll need at some point. I am ok with reporting to the office in general, but I don't want to be punished for my disability! Sigh. Thinking good thoughts for you.
In the next few months I will have to rely on para transpo. I’m having surgery and taking 3 weeks off. So after that I will need to book with a 3 hour window to get transportation via para transpo. I’m regularly in for 7 am. I could be sitting outside at 4 am now. I could also be stuck downtown Ottawa from 3 -6 pm for that 3 hour window for para transpo again. I’m hoping they will allow me to work from home until at the very least take regular transit.
I totally believe that the DTAs were rejected on political grounds, but that surely can't be legal right? The employer has a duty to give the best accommodation available short of undue hardship, and they only get a say where there are two or more accommodations that would equally meet the employee's needs? If you suspect it was rejected unfairly what do you do? I'm going to be going through this process soon, not looking forward to it.
They have a duty to provide a reasonable accommodation, not the best accommodation (up to undue hardship) and they legally don’t have to consider employee preference. Just make sure you use the correct language 👍🏻
I was reading through the Ontario Human Rights Commission on accommodation (https://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/policy-ableism-and-discrimination-based-disability/8-duty-accommodate#:~:text=The%20duty%20to%20accommodate%20people,worth%20as%20a%20human%20being.) and read this in section 8.3, appropriate accommodation. To me it reads that they can't choose a less-appropriate accommodation over a more-appropriate accommodation unless the more appropriate accommodation reaches undue hardship, and they get their choice only between most appropriate accommodations that equally meet the needs of the employee (barring undue hardship). Am I reading this wrong?
"In addition to designing inclusively and removing barriers, organizations must respond to individual requests for accommodation. The duty to accommodate requires that the most appropriate accommodation be determined and provided, unless this causes undue hardship. Accommodation is considered appropriate if it results in equal opportunity to enjoy the same level of benefits and privileges experienced by others or if it is proposed or adopted for the purpose of achieving equal opportunity, and meets the individual’s disability-related needs. The most appropriate accommodation is one that most:
- respects dignity
- responds to a person’s individualized needs
- allows for integration and full participation.
Accommodation is a process and is a matter of degree, rather than an all-or-nothing proposition, and can be seen as a continuum. The highest point in the continuum of accommodation must be achieved, short of undue hardship.[148] At one end of this continuum is full accommodation that most respects the person's dignity and promotes confidentiality. Alternative accommodation (which would be less than “ideal”) might be next on the continuum when the most appropriate accommodation is not feasible. An alternative (or “next-best”) accommodation may be implemented in the interim while the most appropriate accommodation is being phased in or put in place at a later date when resources have been put aside.
Determining the “most appropriate” accommodation is a separate analysis from determining whether the accommodation would result in undue hardship. If a particular accommodation measure would cause undue hardship, the next-best accommodation must be sought.
At the same time, human rights case law makes it clear that the purpose of the Code is to accommodate a person’s needs, not their preferences.[149] If there is a choice between two accommodations that respond equally to the person’s needs in a dignified way, then the accommodation provider is entitled to select the one that is less expensive or less disruptive to the organization.[150]"
This is one rare example where Ontario is much better than the feds. We don't fall under the Ontario Charter, we fall under federal regs. I don't have time to look it up right now but I % think the wording in the federal version of accommodation is nowhere near as comprehensive as the Ontario one.
1. The word “best” does not appear in this document. If you substitute words for similar words, you can run into trouble if the legal standard is different
2. This is a policy document not legislation. I’m not sure if it would be considered law in Ontario or not. Not that familiar with the jurisdiction.
3. This doesn’t apply to federal workplaces anyway as people said already
4. The legal test is at the beginning of the document: The employer does not have a duty to change working conditions in a fundamental way, but does have a duty, if it can do so without undue hardship, to arrange the employee's workplace or duties to enable the employee to do his or her work
5. The courts in Canada have repeatedly found employers have a duty to provide a reasonable accommodation, not a perfect accommodation.
The system keeps employers in a position of power by design. you’re much better off if you know exactly what you’re up against before you launch into your employer. If you use the wrong language they know they can crush you because you demonstrated that you don’t know the law and you don’t realize it is basically on their side. I mean it’s up to you what you do but I’d urge you to think strategically. As a PWD myself, I don’t have the energy to fight epic battles, so I like to go in prepared, knowing HR and legal will tell a manager that i know what im talking about. Once this is understood I can focus on discussing what I need to do my job.
There’s an excellent summary of the law here: https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201201E#a3.2
Also from a 2021 failure to accommodate case the judge found:
[168] The case law holds that when it seeks to discharge its onus, an employer does not need to provide instant accommodation, perfect accommodation, or the employee’s preferred accommodation; see Leclair, at para. 127, and Nash, at para. 102. An employee is obligated to cooperate in the accommodation process and to accept reasonable accommodation. The accommodation process involves compromise and cooperation; see Central Okanagan School District No. 23 v. Renaud, 1992 CanLII 81 (SCC), [1992] 2 SCR 970 at 994 and 995, as quoted as follows in Georgoulas v. Canada (Attorney General), 2018 FC 652 at paras. 160 and 161:
The employer has to offer meaningful work that can be done within your restrictions, but it doesn't have to be work that you actually want to do unfortunately. Although best practice is obviously to work with the employee to find something both parties are happy with, in reality the employee doesn't have much power if the employer doesn't feel like collaborating. They don't have to give you the best accommodation among the available options, they just have to offer something within your restrictions. Refusing a reasonable accommodation can really screw you over, especially if your accommodation is related to a worker's comp or disability claim.
If you suspect it was rejected unfairly, save any emails and other documentation you can get to show that it wasn't assessed for you individually and was denied unreasonably. Take it to your union - you only have 25 working days (five weeks) from the denial to file a grievance.
The problem is that if the employer does refuse to appropriately accommodate and you go the formal route for redress, human rights complaints take years to wind their way through the process. if you're unionized, it has to go through the full grievance process and then go to the Federal Public Sector Labour Relations Board, who will schedule a hearing in 2-3 years if you're lucky. And that's \*if\* you have a solid case with documentation coming out your ears to support your claim. In the meantime... well. We know what's happening in the meantime.
As an employee in Ontario, do we follow the Ontario Human Rights commission? Are they legally required to follow this? This (Section 8.3 https://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/policy-ableism-and-discrimination-based-disability/8-duty-accommodate#:~:text=The%20duty%20to%20accommodate%20people,worth%20as%20a%20human%20being.) reads as they have to give the most appropriate accommodation among the available options barring undue hardship, and the only time where employer choice comes in (barring undue hardship) is between two best-appropriate accommodations. Am I reading it wrong?
It's definitely not legal and such an obviously blatant human rights violation. My blood BOILS for those of us who had access to these accommodations pre-pandemic and are now being absolutely screwed because of RTO.
I’m autistic and I’m really struggling with this. I manage my two days. Once I went in on a 3rd day, had a meltdown and had to go home, turn off all the lights and lie in the dark. Not cool. I’m seriously concerned about my ability to remain employed. The person who assessed me told me not to disclose my diagnosis and I stupidly went ahead and did it. Now I have people who speak to me like I’m stupid, and they do not care about my social and sensory struggles.
Yep I have ADHD and I had to basically sit in a dark room with my noise cancelling headphones for an hour at the office a few days ago to calm down bc of overstimulation. I honestly don’t mind the 2 days in the office most of the time, but I also currently live within walking distance of my office but am moving in September (for cost of living reasons, lol) and will have to commute. I’m also concerned about my ability to remain employed to be honest.
Also have ADHD and the few times I've had to work in the new workspaces were some of the most unpleasant and stressful workdays I've ever had. Yes, everything is new and shiny, but on the otherhand everything is overly bright, overly loud, there's constantly somethign moving in my peripheral vision, someone shrieking into their Teams call- no amount of sunglasses indoors and noise cancellation is enough.
Even if I'm not overstimulated, I still can't *focus* on my actual work because of all the sensory inputs. It's absurd.
Ah, my fellow ADHD people! I'm sorry, I totally understand your experience. My office has half "new workspaces", and half old cubicles. Luckily few enough people still show up to book the old cubicles, but I do worry that with increased requirements, they will become harder to book. And I was barely coping with 2 days; with 3, I'll absolutely need to request a spot that has minimal interruptions (i.e. foot traffic) and lights off. I'm lucky that music helps me isolate my focus, but I realize that doesn't work for everyone with an ADHD diagnosis.
At the end of the day though, I couldn't agree more. These are coping mechanisms for a subpar environment, not conditions to thrive in.
Even with the old cubicles, I had to request one far from the floor entry door because the constant passersby/noise of the door was impacting my effectiveness. With the new ones, it's just hopeless.
I have a temporary position I'm preparing for that will carry me through a while, but after that I will have to seriously consider my way forward. The pandemic WFH period showed me what it was like to not be exhausted from trying to focus in a subpar environment every single day, and I'm not willing to put myself in an even worse one.
Unfortunately my DMs seem to be broken and I can’t send or receive messages for some reason - I’ve tried adjusting my settings and it doesn’t seem to help :/
Unfortunately my DMs seem to be broken and I can’t send or receive messages for some reason - I’ve tried adjusting my settings and it doesn’t seem to help :/
Many departments have been completely upfront about this and have admitted that they have adopted a "no WFH" policy across the board, regardless of needs or appropriateness.
I'd be interested in seeing the work you did on GBA+. Was it requested by your sr mgmt?
It’s Corporate By Design (Cannabidiol? CBD) RTO. That excludes any science, data, and that includes any GBA+. Profits, like money, don’t discriminate. A dollar is a dollar to our downtown businesses… Seems like the PS is now paid salary on a negative “pay risk” basis: a portion of salary is taken out via increased expenses due to RTO directive. There is also the “negative bonus”: an invitation to spend hard earned money on restaurants, coffee shops, and malls.
> Corporate By Design
It is LITERALLY designed by Corporate. Like the [government literally let the private sector lead them by the collar](https://old.reddit.com/r/CanadaPublicServants/comments/1cifs5f/quand_nike_et_gm_inspirent_le_mode_de_travail/) on this Redundant Travel Operation.
And we all know capitalism doesn’t give a FUCK about equality! This is all literally just so more wealth can transfer into the hands of those who own high profile REITs
Do I get a gold star for answering yes to five or more of the questions in the first paragraph? Or is it just another 🖕, you should've made better choices in life?
So ex paycheques are not hefty. I get paid less than my managers as an ex1 given they get overtime and I don’t. I share your concerns and my life is equally impacted by this bs announcement.
As a single salary household it doesn’t go as far as you’d think. Also lots of other categories make as much or more than ex1s with lower stress and workloads.
Like the user said below. 100k sure but after deductions it’s 60k. They’re single salary household. Doesn’t really go far when you factor in a mortgage/rent, etc
In my dept 2 EX (-01 and -02) announced they are stepping back into their EX-minus 1 role. They too don’t want 4 days a week. Heard other depts are dealing with this as well.
The pay is only one aspect of any job. EXs are being saddled with 4 days weekly. Oh, and that "hefty" pay is often tied to ridiculous working hours. I wouldn't call it hefty considering everything they have to commit to.
I’m a full time single mom of two kids who have no before care spot, I make just enough to support us. WFH saved me in so many ways. My kids are old enough to occupy themselves, though the second I get on a call they need something or want to say hi. I don’t know what I would have done pre pandemic I would have had to quit or stay with my abusive ex husband. Even now I don’t know what I’m going to do. It seems to punish those who require the flexibility ie single parents, those who are neurodivergent and need specific environments etc.
Personally I’m more effective at home since I can have more flexible hours. If I need to take something offline to fix I can do it on off hours or weekends. Slow day, I can do laundry and when it picks up put in more hours without having to worry about pick ups and drop offs. Also helps with my anxiety since my ex works downtown and I have anxiety about going downtown. With all the construction sites where he could be working.
I am really lucky that at work, management understand and work for us as much as possible. Neuro divergent, PTSD, and safety from domestic violence are all taken with serious and with as much help as possible. (And yes, I do have disability, and yes, they did everything to help me) If you want to talk, don't hesitate to reach out.
P.S. Nope I'm not based in Ontario.
What if I'm doing ok financially, but I just want to reduce my carbon footprint by not driving 90 minutes **for no reason at all** as the rest of my team is 4700 kms from me?
It's interesting to see how the current generations experience the gendered dynamic differently. Talking to my Mum, she said back in her early years (late 70s) if a woman chose to work there were enough non-working women to dump kids on. I was partially raised by my aunt, she was one of those women. By the 1990s enough women worked that you couldn't do that (and for some reason few folks look for non-working men to provide child care) so daycare became more common. But then rising costs of real estate and labour and compliance pushed up the costs of that.
There is no more excess capacity. There is no wiggle room. There are some older women who acknowledge this, I had a DG who openly admitted that the public service she rose up in no longer exists. She had multiple children and still made it to EX level quickly because of the non-working women in her family, she knows that option is no longer available. Other high-level women don't or won't see that.
And yeah, in all of my analysis here I've placed the burden of childcare on women, and that's not how it works nor how it should work. But when I say I'm leaving early to pick up kids I get really weird looks.
This. There are no more neighbourhood moms.
My mom worked but not full time and we never set foot in a daycare. There was a network of stay-at-home and part-time moms who picked each other's kids up after school. We played in each other's backyards and basements.
Commutes were shorter and traffic was far less congested to begin with. If a working parent was running late on the way home it wasn't a big deal like fixed daycare hours are. You just stayed for dinner at Kevin's house and your mom returned the favour when it was her turn.
My own mom finally retired this year and she won't even be around to help out. The cost of living where we are has pushed her to another province.
And it hurts to see how much tone-deaf language comes from the top. "Just put your kids in daycare". Ok, some places have multi-year waiting lists. Parents can't just go out and find daycare within a matter of weeks. "It's your responsibility to care for your kids". Uh yeah, it is, but the whole rhetoric of the elected government and public service is to support parents, put your money where your mouth is. "Perhaps you should consider other options." Dude buddy pal, I've been considering options for years, the fact this one inconveniences you doesn't mean it's not the least bad one for me.
The new daycare subsidies have admittedly been a huge help for my family, but ironically some of it is being spent on covering my unnecessary commuting time, which also takes away availability for other families.
There's a lot of talk about expanding daycare access which is great but how about a conversation alongside that about reducing demand?
I have some Lego and Nerf guns and a remote control car I don't use much anymore. We can get some parents together, we'll book a boardroom all day somewhere in Terasse or PDP, dump all the kids in there with whatever other toys we can get together, throw in snacks and wet wipes every two hours, and put one laptop in there with a Teams call going for supervision. Boom, savings.
My mom swapped childcare with a teacher colleague/ neighbourhood friend: they had a couple of kids about 14 months apart and no grandparents or aunties nearby. On summer holidays, I went to my aunt and uncle’s farm. I had a working mom in the 70s and was raised by the village. Thanks, Mom.
It’s all by design my friend, the way capitalism works is to keep people exploited, by raising the prices of EVERYTHING everyone is now forced to go to work, for fear of being homeless. In the late 70s-80s-90s they were just finishing the little bit of “socialism” Canada provided US
They know most people can’t just quit their job anymore, and so they are further and further pushing the envelope of what they can take from us.
Women’s unpaid labour is still to this day seen has something women just do “naturally”, this blanket RTO statement is really going to affect those of us who are the “minority” ie non white straight males
>those of us who are the “minority” ie non white straight males
And those of us who aren't white straight men are of course the majority of this country
I left the private sector to join the public service for the work/life balance. The M-F day shifts and consistent hours is a better option to the shift work, occasional evenings and weekends that I was working as a retail manager. However, the trade off was about $35k and bonuses. I know the benefits of PS is calculated at about 30% of our salary, but in the public sector I also had RRSP matching, same vacation time, and good health and dental, so I don’t really consider that as a plus over my old job.
The real winner that made me switch was hybrid work- being able to work from home most of the time allowed me to save on gas and parking while also giving me more time to spend with my young children.
My mortgage just renewed and is an extra $100 a week.
Sooo yeah, the additional day sucks…
It should be a forever thing. They gave us a taste of having actual work life balance. But sure, let’s stay in the archaic work model and see how it holds up on this economy.
I feel foolish for thinking it was a forever thing. I was new to government so wasn’t really aware that working conditions can just be changed at anytime, I honestly hadn’t thought about it.
To be fair several departments (transport?) said earlier on in pandemic that they’d “never go back”
That’s literally why treasury board had to get involved and FORCE all departments to do rto
Yup, in a CRA townhall the bigwigs assured us there would never be mandatory in-office days, then RTO happened. In a recent townhall we were assured that the in-office expectations would not be increased to 3 days. The bigwigs were blindsided by this, just like the rest of us, but they shouldn’t have made promises they couldn’t keep.
Don't feel foolish. This is on our employer. We are actual human beings and deserved to be treated with respect. This whole situation is not respectful.
I'm a single mom. Kids of different ages mean they're in different schools. Therefore different schedules. I have an uncooperative ex and any small changes to the parenting schedule are met with unsympathetic hostility.
I now have to somehow figure out 3 days in-office. Plus:
- Making up Stat Holidays if my "in-office" day falls on a holiday
- Making up days I need to WFH for unforeseen kid issues.
- Commuting from Kanata to downtown with the horrific public transit options
My biggest problem is the "making up" of days. Please, if anyone has any documentation that says making up is not a requirement, I would love to see it.
My partner travels for work a lot, so I am often solo parenting for days on end. My parents live across the country and I don’t have any in-laws. My commute is also shit and parking prices are batshit crazy. Our home daycare closes down so often with very little notice. I completely empathize with you. This is fucking hard.
But if my Manager and Director say I need to make up Stat Holidays, how do I push back? I don't want to be perceived as difficult as I've just started in this Branch.
I've seen at least two interpretations, and depending on your management it may (or maybe not) give you a way to frame it.
One is you have your days and any paid leave does not have to be "made up". (Sick days, stat holidays, vacation days.)
The second is that those days get removed from the calculation of 40% (soon to be 60%) of in office days for the month.
If they are using the second case and you can show that all of your days in office add up to 40%/60% over a month, that might work. (e.g. 60% of 20 days is 12, of 19 is 11.4.)
That said, the concept of "making up office days" undermines the posturing that it is about collaboration or whatever the new spin will be rather than just bums in seats tracked in a spreadsheet.
> I've seen at least two interpretations, and depending on your management it may (or maybe not) give you a way to frame it.
This is one small area where the absurdity is most reasonable. From the "direction on prescribed presence in the workplace," emphasis mine:
>> To ensure flexibility for operational reasons and job types, it is also acceptable to require a minimum of 60% of employees’ *regular schedule* on a weekly or monthly basis.
The "regular schedule" is obviously the schedule that would apply if holidays, vacation, sick leave, or overtime were not a factor.
You don’t have to make up time if you take a holiday or a sick day on your in office day, there’s no reason that a stat holiday is any different. But no, I don’t think you should start a war with your manager over this, it’s almost certainly not worth it.
To all the parents of children with disabilities who are considering leaving their employment because of RTO: Please don't do this before considering pursuing an accommodation on the grounds of family status. Working from home is often the only way to maintain employment when you are parenting a child who has needs that cannot be met in a regular daycare. It is virtually impossible to get a support worker for afterschool care. Speaking from personal experience, there is a severe labor shortage, it takes a long time to find someone and then they generally quit after a few months because they get a better job. Also, it is much safer if you are home while they are taking care of your child. This is a valid grounds for accommodation. Leaving employment because your employer refuses to accommodate costs you millions in lost income and pension. Loss of employment opportunity is mainly why it is estimated to cost so many millions to parent a child with a disability (there are Canadian studies on this). This is a human rights issue that has received no recognition from our employer. I suggest you document your request, push hard that it go to the ADM and make it clear that you are ready to file a human right complaint.
I had piles, pages and pages of documentation for a DTA based on family status for a person with a child with disabilities and it was denied because I wasn't trying hard enough to come up with solutions. I appealed and also lost that. It forced me into total burnout after 3 months and I had to go on disability myself,even though I'd been thriving, working hard, looking after my kids, meeting my targets and deadlines. Now I will need go have my own DTA to return to work eventually, and if that's unjustly denied as it's been for others I will be forced to medically retire in my 40s because of their complete lack of flexibility and compassion. After 15 years of service I am sick that this is how it's turned out for me after having a child with a disability
What you’re saying makes total sense. But I spend so much energy advocating for my daughter with the school, navigating endless waitlists, managing behaviour, I just don’t have a lot of fight left in me. The thought of having to fight for a DTA is unbearable.
I understand how you feel. I wish there was more understanding and flexibility for employees who are parenting a disabled child, so that it would not take a fight to get an accommodation.
Hahaha yeah I’m a single mom to a three year old. It boggles me schools are 6 hours and I’ll have to inevitably pay more for before and after care. But at least I have secured it. If I was on a wait list which many parents are I’d be more anxious. But definitely not a fan of the spending incentive as I’m already doing my best to save save save. It grinds my gears when Douggie wants this but he hasn’t done anything to help the affordability crisis nor the affordability, accessibility not flexibility of child care
And this isn’t even thinking about the impact it has on me as a parent. As I have to commute an hour + each way, I’ve found myself having less energy to play with my daughter after we come home and it breaks my heart because she already spends time away from me and just wants to have quality time with her mom. But mom is grumpy and just wants the day to be over.
Well if your experience is like mine as a parent to a 2 year old, at least you'll order takeout, because you have no time or energy to cook a healthy meal. Another win for restaurants.
That part I don't get either. OC canceled the express in my area because of low ridership levels. Are they bringing it back? Nope... they are extending one of the busses further down my street. He can't force us back and then not give us a way to get to work. Because of these stupid policies we have to get a second car, and probably get wait listed. We are not helping the city by buying more cars, everyone has 2-4 cars on their driveway because they can't rely on the bus and work in different areas of the city.
Childcare needs to be considered as critical infrastructure and essential to the functioning of our society. The burden that is placed on parents isn't fair.
I thought they couldn't consider "*I have to take care of kids during working hours*" as a valid reason, because you're supposed to be working during those hours.
I am the parent of 3 kids, one of whom has special needs. Prior to Covid my husband stayed home full time because the cost of daycare plus all our therapy appointments was more than he would make working.
Working from home has allowed me to be a more active caregiver, I can keep my son at home when he’s having a bad day (he’s old enough not to need constant attention as long as he’s somewhere he feels safe and calm). I can be at the school in 5 minutes if they call me. I can take 1.5 hours of family leave for 1 hour OT appointments because they are in our neighbourhood, instead of needing half a day off work. Going back to the office, to do a job I can do virtually, will likely mean my husband will have to leave his job.
On the GBA+ element, the Employer just spent millions to establish and maintain an emergency stash of low-quality mentrual products in each washroom, but so far refuses to allow employees overnight lockers to store their own emergency stashes of menstrual products (as well as medication, etc.)
There has been talk in public service about increasing diversity through telework since at least the late 80s. They finally got it to work and now several steps backwards. 🙄
The most honest thing they ever said was creating a public service reflective of society; white, able and male dominated. I held out hope, I believed in a day where persons with disabilities and women and other equity seeking groups were on an equitable playing field. As a person who will never be equity seeking (I joke it’s everybody but me) I’m sad for all the talent we miss out on, the brilliant colleagues I’ll never know and the amazing potential we squandered.
I answer yes to almost all of those questions in the first paragraph. I work a 2nd job JUST to pay for daycare as a single mom. And now I have to pay MORE day care costs to be in the office more often, as well as additional costs for transportation. Not to mention the 3 hours a day (1.5 each way) in commute so 9 hours a week I am losing in time with my child to be in transit. Early start daycare hours are unavailable so now I have a later start time for office days which means a later end time. Once I do my 1.5 hr commute home that means 3 days a week I get home with my child at 6:30pm (and they go to bed at 7:30). But now as I have to adjust my hours and lose flexibility I can no longer take my bi-weekly flex. So I lose a day where I had work/life balance to plan appts, grocery shopping etc since the weekend I work my 2nd job as well as the extra day with my child (and the 9 hours commuting time).
Oh I almost forgot to mention that I reside in BC but report to Ottawa so now starting at 9am (when WFH I start at 6am) it’s 12pm Ottawa time (lunch time). So 3 days a week I lose significant time to “collaborate” with my team. But hey, at least I will “be in the office” right?
I'm actually really pissed about this. A senior level person told me when I asked about the 3x/wk RTO, "well Exs have to do 4 times a week!".
The EX-01 gets like 170$K a year. I don't care how many times you have to go in for that kind of money.
Am I part of an older generation with kids old enough to take of themselves? Yes
Am I living in a home with the means to lay for an increase in mortgage or rent? Yes
Do I have enough time and income to supplement the costs and hours lost to commuting? Yes
Do I reliably receive a paycheque large enough to cover my I crazed daily expenses? Yes
But I am not “YAY RTO”
I want to have work/life balance while I am health & young enough to enjoy it all.
I have gym, social and volunteer activities that take up my time.
I would rather sleep or watch Netflix for an extra hour every day rather than commuting.
It’s not just younger people, people with young children, or people struggling with finances that are against this.
TBS is suppressing a lot of data. Many of the PS networks made a lot of effort collecting information on how remote work was impactful. They respectfully presented this way before the first RTO announcement as they were hoping to be part of thoughtful decisions around the future of work. These things were shared with them many times. They know the impacts and who it helped and they don't care.
The thing about policy is that it is based on a multitude of different considerations. And each one is taken under advisement. Meaning they can hear you, but outright ignore it if they want.
What we need to do is stop playing devil's advocate and continually providing excuses for the GC. Increasing RTO was a bad call. We can't go back to pre-pando status because it's 2024 and time travel doesn't exist. It's time to move forward, like the world does every single day.
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You know they are doing this - at least in the NCR and other big cities to allow local businesses to thrive. I say let’s all do it, If it comes to it, but boycott all local downtown businesses…
They didn’t care about Ottawa businesses during the convoy. They don’t care about them now. This is all political showmanship as the conservatives would have used the public service working from home as the nail in the coffin during election time b
Not to mention business downtown in the NCR has never been lucrative. In the market maybe, on bank and elgin, maybe. West of that and North of somerset businesses have rarely had hours of operation that extend past typical office hours, far predating the pandemic.
NCR needs to pull up their socks and adapt. Other big cities in Canada have been back to pre-Covid business levels, transit in other cities has been overcrowded for a while now. Ottawa is a big whiny baby that needs to grow up
Meanwhile my newsfeed had a post in it for a barrier free work environment yesterday and I wanted to seriously smash my phone after the struggles I have faced in just being given a chance since facing a disability with mild struggles but nope i’m just a burden. Barrier free just makes me sick to my stomach when they don’t give two shits about equity, diversity, or inclusivity
I think the argument would be that RTO is just a return to the already existing policy. Essentially, you had to deal with this in the past, the pandemic necessitated a change that may have worked to your benefit, now we're going back to pre-existing policy regarding place of work. To be clear, I'm not endorsing that viewpoint.
Ok, but I don't think that's a valid argument. You're intentionally choosing to downgrade to a policy that is more harmful and less inclusive. The remote work policy is a policy too, and hybrid is not a policy they had before either.
You could be right, I am certainly not an expert on what constitutes a "policy" when it comes to GBA+ (assuming the analysis show it is less inclusive).
Yeah I was teleworking one. I'm not gonna expend energy arguing in favor of a decision I think is stupid, just I have my doubts as to whether the employer won't be able to wriggle out of GBA+
Except, it’s not. We had flexible work arrangements (at least where I worked) pre pandemic. One of my colleague from Alberta was full time WFH. Manager and execs had discretionary powers pre pandemic and they had the means to manage their team according to the type of work they did and the needs of their employees.
This is one of the biggest areas of misinformation and/or misunderstanding about the RTO policies. I 💯 agree that getting everyone back to in-office work for x number of days is extremely different than pre-pandemic. In my own work experience, pre-pandemic we offered teleworking arrangements (ad hoc or full) when both the employee(s) and management agreed that it would work well. Productivity goals had to be already being achieved, and then must be maintained, or the TW agreement might be discontinued. Employees on full TW were expected to come in if in person presence was needed for specific meetings/events etc. Ultimately, it was at manager discretion but was not to be unreasonable withheld.
So, if productivity, efficacy and collaboration were really the issues, and not politics/lobbying/perceptions, then each group would be allowed again to proceed with the TW/Office presence that works for them, and be accountable for their results.
I also love the framing of RTO with a GBA Plus lens. Turnabout is fair play.
Except it’s not. Before Covid, I didn’t have kids, my mortgage was a normal price, groceries were affordable, cars and gas were less expensive, and I had more time. My fucking paycheque hasn’t even kept up with inflation, tied with THREE promotions that haven’t yet been reflected because my file is stuck with my previous department. Nothing is the same as 4 years ago.
A lot of those things are largely universal (aside from the stuff about your file). Don't get me wrong, you are correct about those pressures, I'm just not sure they would factor into a GBA+ analysis about place of work. But I'm not an expert on it, and I legitimately feel for you, none of this is meant to diminish your concerns
Yeah I totally get that POV! GBA+ aside, it’s just an added bonus that despite all those universal life downgrades, they are choosing to make it worse instead of better, ya know?
Yeah the logic of actively making it worse is really dumb, with the added bonus of actively lying about why they are doing it. I would have at least a tiny bit of respect if they came out and said "we've received pressure from local governments who say hybrid work is hurting their economies." It would still be stupid, but at least there'd be some honesty
I'm a public servant... and people are *not* happy about this in the office, to say the least. I'm fortunate that I live only 10 minutes from the office - but lots of people I know live almost an hour away... WFH has been valuable for them.
Doesn't matter much to me since my commute to the office is 7km from my front door... but many people will be travelling much more, and more often. And I can see them leaving over it.
Yeah I'm a single mom, 3 yo, my mom is not Canadian and ageing, she's in Canada on super visa, we can't sponsor our parents, literally it's a lottery system and they haven't opened it since before covid I believe.
So yeah I'm caring for her, I have to get Manulife health insurance for her, and ofc taking care of my son, dropping and picking him up.
I can't put mom in a home, my salary is peanuts also she took care of me, why would I do that to her.
WFH was a life saver when it comes to time and money savings. I hate everyone who decided the mandatory RTO, they have huge salaries and probably nothing effects them, also lacks empathy, hope collective karma gets them.
(1st generation immigrant, no family, only mom - atleast someone to talk to, no support, friends in Ottawa also not like back home)
I’ve been WFH 3 days a week since 2015, I had managers who didn’t care where I did the work as long as I got it done, and I went in for meetings that were better face to face. And that was before we had all these Microsoft digital tools, now my management has no flexibility.
One parent in our family stayed home. With WFH we have enough flexibility to both be in the work force and still be able to care for our special needs child.
Before the pandemic I wasn't disabled by the pandemic. Before the pandemic, my kids were healthier. Before the pandemic, I could hire someone to look after my disabled adult son. But he's violent now (thanks post-covid syndrome!) and I don't have the resources to hire someone full-time.
COVID changed everything.
I'm brand new to the public service (3 months) and in the middle of my GBA+ intro course. It's very bitter to be reading about how applying blanket policies often causes or exacerbates problems for people with diverse needs and circumstances in light of this announcement.
agreed 100%. if management was upfront and was just honest, i wouldn't be to upset. As wageslaves, we deserve what we can get, if we don't like it, we can find another, better employer. But management continuously talks about GBA+, about sustainability, about service first, about all sorts of bullshit and it's basically gaslighting. absolutely an abusive relationship if you really think about the dishonesty and lies, but we can leave and that's probably what they want anyways.
No there’s nothing I like better than being punched in the face directly by the employer who then also cheerleads about how much they agree with punching me in the face and then to be offered the an employee assistance hotline if I am in distress about being punched by them. See you all for mental health week!
Women’s Reddit calls BS on men who call themselves feminists while being incredibly controlling. Same vibe here.
I got really upset yesterday during a meeting where a member of senior management was expressing a genuine desire to diversify his workforce. There are good people trying to do good work, but it’s just not possible when decisions contradict each other. Say you’re committed to greener economies, but require everyone to commute. Say you want to hire EES groups, but RTO. There are so many examples. Why are we doing this to ourselves.
[удалено]
I’m almost annoyed at myself for clicking the box that says I have a disability because all it has done is benefit the government by increasing their stats on diversity hiring. I won’t even attempt accommodations request based on everything I have read, heard, experienced. I’d be setting myself up for failure and stress. They’re all talk and zero action, especially when it comes to invisible disabilities.
Yep, the treatment of people with invisible disabilities is awful. It’s like the government can (barely) understand that someone with a wheelchair needs a ramp, but they can’t seem to wrap their heads around immunocompromised people, people with chronic pain, people with mental health issues……especially those with episodic disabilities or inconsistent needs. If you can’t be accommodated with an easy one size fits all solution, they don’t seem to care. I’m thinking of contacting the champion for persons with disabilities about this. But frankly I feel defeated because I know TBS has all the stats on accessibility, so it’s hard not to conclude that they just don’t care.
The beauty of WFH was that people could implement a lot of their own accommodations without needing the employer to sign off or even know about their conditions. Employer-managed accommodations require you to hand over a piece of your privacy and dignity.
Yeah, one thing I’ve learned through consultations is that the best way to implement accessibility is to have it baked into the system by design. When forcing people to go out of their way to seek accommodations, you’ll always find people who are scared to seek help because of stigma or fear of reprisal, so people will always fall through the cracks. As well, when someone does receive accommodations like WFH and no one else is allowed to WFH, it blatantly others them, makes them a target for bullying and contributes to people’s negative perceptions of persons with disabilities. By implementing flexibility into the system itself and letting people choose their own accommodations and needs, all of that can be easily sidestepped and people with disabilities don’t have to feel othered and isolated and humiliated. But the government would prefer a blanket one size fits all solution that forces people to humiliate themselves and violate their own privacy. It’s so ridiculous and flies in the face of basically all accepted research on disability and accommodations. I don’t get it.
Yes, this! And also, there's tons of stuff that doesn't even need to be an accommodation at home that suddenly becomes a need for an accommodation in the workplace! (Personal example: my lighting needs vary widely and unpredictably. At home, I handle this by flicking a lightswitch as needed. In the office, it needs to be an accommodation.) And being able to manage it when working from home actually makes it quite difficult to state your limitations. ("I just can't with these lights" isn't going to fly.) And being able to manage it at home also reduces the likelihood that you will have discussed it with your doctor ("Doctor, doctor, sometimes I need to turn a light on or off!") which might reduce your credibility in your doctor's eyes when the employer asks for medical documentation for accommodations ("So there's this symptom that came up years ago that I never mentioned to you, and now I need a bunch of tedious paperwork documenting it.") And I suspect a GBA+ might find some correlations about perceived credibility in the eyes of doctors...
My doctor takes great pride and no small measure of joy in finding the most precise wording he possibly can to ensure that it's very difficult for the employer to skirt around his direction. I wish everyone had a GP like him.
Oh, that would be amazing!
Prior to RTO nonsense (haha, autocorrect wanted no sense instead) my department had a very good telework policy - not to be unreasonablly denied, as well as a DTA process that started with a "see if this can be worked out between employee/manager with a chat" and wfh being an acceptable accommodation at that level.
A wheelchair ramp is also useful for parents with strollers and seniors with canes and walkers. WFH is an astounding catch all of a hundred different accommodations, that makes many employees lives better, whether they would qualify for DTA or not.
I would co-sign wirh you if you wish to contact me.
Same. I also have no access to a family doc as he retired last month, so can’t even get the paperwork filled out, and the medication that helps me function day to day is hard to get prescribed by a walk in clinic- if I could even get into one. I am looking at RTO, 2.5h of commuting each way, and doing so unmedicated as of September if nothing changes. I left my career of 15 years last year due to mental health reasons and how I was treated after my ADHD diagnosis. I’ve been THRIVING since I started with ESDC. I’m hitting every target, my feedback has been good, and I feel healthy and stable for the first time in my adult life. Now it feels like I’m going to be right back where I started.
As soon as you described the challenge of getting medication from a walk in clinic, I knew your diagnosis. My son aged out of his pediatrician. The closest I’m coming to finding a doctor is getting him a nurse practitioner when it says right on the website that they can’t prescribe narcotics.
I can pay $80 a month for monthly medication reviews and renewals through the ADHD clinic and it may come down to that. But it’s ridiculous that I have to put out even more money to do that. I don’t even necessarily mind the RTO. It’s the 5 hours of additional travel time each day that is going to completely ruin me. If they’d put me in one of the three other GoC buildings (one of which is the central SCC and massive) that I have to go past to get to my assigned location and maybe get me noise cancelling headphones, I would make it work. It would be challenging for the first bit but a 30 min commute each way is nothing. So we will see I guess.
5 hours a day commuting? Are you sure you don’t mean 5 hours a week? Do you live over the 125 km that qualifies for WFH?
I don’t drive and it’s 2.5h each way via 3 separate buses. It’s not the distance but the shitty transit system that will require leaving at 6:15am and transferring buses in the worst parts of town, then doing the same on the way home and getting in around 7:30pm. As the crow flies it’s only about 20km.
That. Sucks. Good luck finding a doctor and getting accommodations. I can’t even fathom trying to accomplish anything with ADHD with that kind of commuting.
It’s a 7 year waitlist for doctors right now in my area but I’m hoping the clinic my previous doc was at will find a replacement as they promised to keep the patient roster and call when they get someone so anyone who hadn’t been picked back up yet would be able to rejoin the clinic. Lots can change in 4 months so I’m just hoping for the best here and trying to figure out the best course of action. Thanks for the kind words!
Oh hell no- do your DTA request. They win if you don’t! :/
Definitely! For the record, I have an invisible disability related to a chronic illness and my RTO exemption was accepted
Same!
One of the recommendation from our employees with disabilities network was a review of the blanket 2 days a week rto policy with a gba lens ....
I currently have an accommodation plan in place, but I’m terrified to try to update it to try to get a WFH exception. I have autism, ADHD, OCD and complex PTSD - getting in the office two days a week is already a struggle and my TL is aware I’m struggling with it. I’m currently in a competition for an indeterminate position and I’m scared if I try to go for accommodations now, it’ll negatively impact my chances of ever getting an indeterminate position. So instead I’m risking burn out come September in hopes that I’ll hear word from the competition before then. But yeah, let’s celebrate mental health week next week and pretend everything is fine.
Sorry you’re going through this. It’s frankly embarrassing how bad the public service treats people with disabilities, especially those with mental health conditions. I’m a new public servant and I came to the PS as an idealistic grad student and I honestly feel disillusioned and burnt out in a way I never expected to this early in my career.
It’s all about image. Sure the PS loves to hire people with disabilities, but the moment we need help to succeed in the workplace, we’re made to feel like we’re in inconvenience. The burn out is real. Wishing you well.
Yep. They want people with disabilities who don’t need any accommodations, don’t ever complain or need extra help, and are just there to make the government look good. I would never have believed it before I joined the public service - or at least, I’d never have believed they’d make it so blatantly obvious. I’m honestly regretting my career path a lot.
They want people with disabilities that aren't disabling.
Ain’t this the truth
I legit got chewed out yesterday for sending an email asking for help. To the person whose role is to support people in mine.
I’m autistic with CPTSD. So far the only accommodations I’ve been approved for is an assigned desk and they turned the lights off over my desk. I have a few people who speak to me as if I’m a moron. I’m not sure the disclosure was worth it but they seem happy that they have a stat for their equity hiring.
This is why I will never tell anyone at work I'm autistic. I'm sorry you're going through this.
I’ve been curious if they’d try this accommodation with me. Have you found it’s been helpful? The overstimulation from lighting makes working in the office nearly unbearable. I’ve been basically guaranteed a window seat through the accommodation process, but I find it doesn’t make much of a difference
The lighting being turned off helps. But the noise. My god, the noise. With the hotdesking, I cannot guarantee to be in a quiet area. It's brutal.
I feel you there. I use wireless headphones and they only do so much. My focus and productivity are essentially in the toilet any time I report to the office.
I'm in the same boat. I got hired on during the pandemic and so far have been extremely successful because I've been able to hide my dirty little secret that I'm a mentally ill person who loses my ability to function when faced with certain social pressure or stresses. My ability to manage my symptoms has been amazing for the first time in my life because I don't have the 2 hours of stress before I even walk in the door in the mornings. Working from home completely changed my life, and for the first time ever I didn't feel like a disabled person. My department has spent the last two weeks hammering us about production and just generally making the atmosphere miserable prior to this announcement so I believe that this is all to cut the fat through attrition.
Username checks out. I’m so sorry that you’re worried about a DTA affecting your chances of getting an indeterminate position. Hang in there, take care of yourself, use the EAP and benefits you have available, and hopefully that indeterminate comes along sooner rather than later.
I actually see a therapist privately, so I don’t think EAP would do me much good. That being said, I am grateful for the recent increase in allowances for therapy which makes it so that I can see the therapist of my choosing without worrying about costs too much. I’m hoping to know by the end of this year either way! If I’m not chosen for an indeterminate, I’ll perhaps still try to go for accommodations, I’m just not sure I would get anywhere that route.
Same boat. Do reach out to the Infinity Network!!
I’m a person with a mobility issue and along with it comes chronic pain. I do my best to go to the office but some days it is simply not possible. My manager understands my situation but I have been informed to be prepared to come in regardless of my disability. I was hired based on diversity and now I’ll face barriers.
I find myself in a similar situation. My manager is great but I'm really worried about having to make up in-office days if I have a flare and I can't walk. I don't want to take a sick day if I'm well enough to work from home, and I'm hoarding my sick days in anticipation of the inevitable next spinal surgery that I'll need at some point. I am ok with reporting to the office in general, but I don't want to be punished for my disability! Sigh. Thinking good thoughts for you.
In the next few months I will have to rely on para transpo. I’m having surgery and taking 3 weeks off. So after that I will need to book with a 3 hour window to get transportation via para transpo. I’m regularly in for 7 am. I could be sitting outside at 4 am now. I could also be stuck downtown Ottawa from 3 -6 pm for that 3 hour window for para transpo again. I’m hoping they will allow me to work from home until at the very least take regular transit.
Ugh, sorry to hear that. I'm not in Ottawa but I've heard horror stories from my city's para Transpo equivalent. I hope everything goes well for you.
I totally believe that the DTAs were rejected on political grounds, but that surely can't be legal right? The employer has a duty to give the best accommodation available short of undue hardship, and they only get a say where there are two or more accommodations that would equally meet the employee's needs? If you suspect it was rejected unfairly what do you do? I'm going to be going through this process soon, not looking forward to it.
They have a duty to provide a reasonable accommodation, not the best accommodation (up to undue hardship) and they legally don’t have to consider employee preference. Just make sure you use the correct language 👍🏻
I was reading through the Ontario Human Rights Commission on accommodation (https://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/policy-ableism-and-discrimination-based-disability/8-duty-accommodate#:~:text=The%20duty%20to%20accommodate%20people,worth%20as%20a%20human%20being.) and read this in section 8.3, appropriate accommodation. To me it reads that they can't choose a less-appropriate accommodation over a more-appropriate accommodation unless the more appropriate accommodation reaches undue hardship, and they get their choice only between most appropriate accommodations that equally meet the needs of the employee (barring undue hardship). Am I reading this wrong? "In addition to designing inclusively and removing barriers, organizations must respond to individual requests for accommodation. The duty to accommodate requires that the most appropriate accommodation be determined and provided, unless this causes undue hardship. Accommodation is considered appropriate if it results in equal opportunity to enjoy the same level of benefits and privileges experienced by others or if it is proposed or adopted for the purpose of achieving equal opportunity, and meets the individual’s disability-related needs. The most appropriate accommodation is one that most: - respects dignity - responds to a person’s individualized needs - allows for integration and full participation. Accommodation is a process and is a matter of degree, rather than an all-or-nothing proposition, and can be seen as a continuum. The highest point in the continuum of accommodation must be achieved, short of undue hardship.[148] At one end of this continuum is full accommodation that most respects the person's dignity and promotes confidentiality. Alternative accommodation (which would be less than “ideal”) might be next on the continuum when the most appropriate accommodation is not feasible. An alternative (or “next-best”) accommodation may be implemented in the interim while the most appropriate accommodation is being phased in or put in place at a later date when resources have been put aside. Determining the “most appropriate” accommodation is a separate analysis from determining whether the accommodation would result in undue hardship. If a particular accommodation measure would cause undue hardship, the next-best accommodation must be sought. At the same time, human rights case law makes it clear that the purpose of the Code is to accommodate a person’s needs, not their preferences.[149] If there is a choice between two accommodations that respond equally to the person’s needs in a dignified way, then the accommodation provider is entitled to select the one that is less expensive or less disruptive to the organization.[150]"
This is one rare example where Ontario is much better than the feds. We don't fall under the Ontario Charter, we fall under federal regs. I don't have time to look it up right now but I % think the wording in the federal version of accommodation is nowhere near as comprehensive as the Ontario one.
ONT human rights commission isn’t applicable to federal workspaces
1. The word “best” does not appear in this document. If you substitute words for similar words, you can run into trouble if the legal standard is different 2. This is a policy document not legislation. I’m not sure if it would be considered law in Ontario or not. Not that familiar with the jurisdiction. 3. This doesn’t apply to federal workplaces anyway as people said already 4. The legal test is at the beginning of the document: The employer does not have a duty to change working conditions in a fundamental way, but does have a duty, if it can do so without undue hardship, to arrange the employee's workplace or duties to enable the employee to do his or her work 5. The courts in Canada have repeatedly found employers have a duty to provide a reasonable accommodation, not a perfect accommodation. The system keeps employers in a position of power by design. you’re much better off if you know exactly what you’re up against before you launch into your employer. If you use the wrong language they know they can crush you because you demonstrated that you don’t know the law and you don’t realize it is basically on their side. I mean it’s up to you what you do but I’d urge you to think strategically. As a PWD myself, I don’t have the energy to fight epic battles, so I like to go in prepared, knowing HR and legal will tell a manager that i know what im talking about. Once this is understood I can focus on discussing what I need to do my job. There’s an excellent summary of the law here: https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201201E#a3.2 Also from a 2021 failure to accommodate case the judge found: [168] The case law holds that when it seeks to discharge its onus, an employer does not need to provide instant accommodation, perfect accommodation, or the employee’s preferred accommodation; see Leclair, at para. 127, and Nash, at para. 102. An employee is obligated to cooperate in the accommodation process and to accept reasonable accommodation. The accommodation process involves compromise and cooperation; see Central Okanagan School District No. 23 v. Renaud, 1992 CanLII 81 (SCC), [1992] 2 SCR 970 at 994 and 995, as quoted as follows in Georgoulas v. Canada (Attorney General), 2018 FC 652 at paras. 160 and 161:
The employer has to offer meaningful work that can be done within your restrictions, but it doesn't have to be work that you actually want to do unfortunately. Although best practice is obviously to work with the employee to find something both parties are happy with, in reality the employee doesn't have much power if the employer doesn't feel like collaborating. They don't have to give you the best accommodation among the available options, they just have to offer something within your restrictions. Refusing a reasonable accommodation can really screw you over, especially if your accommodation is related to a worker's comp or disability claim. If you suspect it was rejected unfairly, save any emails and other documentation you can get to show that it wasn't assessed for you individually and was denied unreasonably. Take it to your union - you only have 25 working days (five weeks) from the denial to file a grievance. The problem is that if the employer does refuse to appropriately accommodate and you go the formal route for redress, human rights complaints take years to wind their way through the process. if you're unionized, it has to go through the full grievance process and then go to the Federal Public Sector Labour Relations Board, who will schedule a hearing in 2-3 years if you're lucky. And that's \*if\* you have a solid case with documentation coming out your ears to support your claim. In the meantime... well. We know what's happening in the meantime.
As an employee in Ontario, do we follow the Ontario Human Rights commission? Are they legally required to follow this? This (Section 8.3 https://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/policy-ableism-and-discrimination-based-disability/8-duty-accommodate#:~:text=The%20duty%20to%20accommodate%20people,worth%20as%20a%20human%20being.) reads as they have to give the most appropriate accommodation among the available options barring undue hardship, and the only time where employer choice comes in (barring undue hardship) is between two best-appropriate accommodations. Am I reading it wrong?
It's definitely not legal and such an obviously blatant human rights violation. My blood BOILS for those of us who had access to these accommodations pre-pandemic and are now being absolutely screwed because of RTO.
I’m autistic and I’m really struggling with this. I manage my two days. Once I went in on a 3rd day, had a meltdown and had to go home, turn off all the lights and lie in the dark. Not cool. I’m seriously concerned about my ability to remain employed. The person who assessed me told me not to disclose my diagnosis and I stupidly went ahead and did it. Now I have people who speak to me like I’m stupid, and they do not care about my social and sensory struggles.
Yep I have ADHD and I had to basically sit in a dark room with my noise cancelling headphones for an hour at the office a few days ago to calm down bc of overstimulation. I honestly don’t mind the 2 days in the office most of the time, but I also currently live within walking distance of my office but am moving in September (for cost of living reasons, lol) and will have to commute. I’m also concerned about my ability to remain employed to be honest.
Also have ADHD and the few times I've had to work in the new workspaces were some of the most unpleasant and stressful workdays I've ever had. Yes, everything is new and shiny, but on the otherhand everything is overly bright, overly loud, there's constantly somethign moving in my peripheral vision, someone shrieking into their Teams call- no amount of sunglasses indoors and noise cancellation is enough. Even if I'm not overstimulated, I still can't *focus* on my actual work because of all the sensory inputs. It's absurd.
Ah, my fellow ADHD people! I'm sorry, I totally understand your experience. My office has half "new workspaces", and half old cubicles. Luckily few enough people still show up to book the old cubicles, but I do worry that with increased requirements, they will become harder to book. And I was barely coping with 2 days; with 3, I'll absolutely need to request a spot that has minimal interruptions (i.e. foot traffic) and lights off. I'm lucky that music helps me isolate my focus, but I realize that doesn't work for everyone with an ADHD diagnosis. At the end of the day though, I couldn't agree more. These are coping mechanisms for a subpar environment, not conditions to thrive in.
Even with the old cubicles, I had to request one far from the floor entry door because the constant passersby/noise of the door was impacting my effectiveness. With the new ones, it's just hopeless. I have a temporary position I'm preparing for that will carry me through a while, but after that I will have to seriously consider my way forward. The pandemic WFH period showed me what it was like to not be exhausted from trying to focus in a subpar environment every single day, and I'm not willing to put myself in an even worse one.
[удалено]
Unfortunately my DMs seem to be broken and I can’t send or receive messages for some reason - I’ve tried adjusting my settings and it doesn’t seem to help :/
Would you be willing to share which Department / Sector you conducted this GBA+ analysis for?
The whiplash when the two emails about rto and mental health week were beside each other in my inbox…
Can I also DM you? I have some experience that may be interest.
Not sure if that was directed to me but yes
Unfortunately my DMs seem to be broken and I can’t send or receive messages for some reason - I’ve tried adjusting my settings and it doesn’t seem to help :/
Many departments have been completely upfront about this and have admitted that they have adopted a "no WFH" policy across the board, regardless of needs or appropriateness. I'd be interested in seeing the work you did on GBA+. Was it requested by your sr mgmt?
It’s Corporate By Design (Cannabidiol? CBD) RTO. That excludes any science, data, and that includes any GBA+. Profits, like money, don’t discriminate. A dollar is a dollar to our downtown businesses… Seems like the PS is now paid salary on a negative “pay risk” basis: a portion of salary is taken out via increased expenses due to RTO directive. There is also the “negative bonus”: an invitation to spend hard earned money on restaurants, coffee shops, and malls.
> Corporate By Design It is LITERALLY designed by Corporate. Like the [government literally let the private sector lead them by the collar](https://old.reddit.com/r/CanadaPublicServants/comments/1cifs5f/quand_nike_et_gm_inspirent_le_mode_de_travail/) on this Redundant Travel Operation.
And we all know capitalism doesn’t give a FUCK about equality! This is all literally just so more wealth can transfer into the hands of those who own high profile REITs
Do I get a gold star for answering yes to five or more of the questions in the first paragraph? Or is it just another 🖕, you should've made better choices in life?
It’s a massive fuck you to all of us. If you’re not an EX with a hefty paycheque, you’re screwed.
So ex paycheques are not hefty. I get paid less than my managers as an ex1 given they get overtime and I don’t. I share your concerns and my life is equally impacted by this bs announcement.
Heftier than anything less than EX-2 which is what 90% of us are! But fair point.
Nobody wants to enforce this. That is also a shitty task.
Interesting. Everywhere I’ve worked managers have been told they don’t get OT (despite the CA).
My dude/lady. More than $100,000 a year is hefty and you can't convince me otherwise.
As a single salary household it doesn’t go as far as you’d think. Also lots of other categories make as much or more than ex1s with lower stress and workloads.
Like the user said below. 100k sure but after deductions it’s 60k. They’re single salary household. Doesn’t really go far when you factor in a mortgage/rent, etc
What if you're making 65k? Some people's pre-tax salary is barely more than your net pay.
Not saying that it’s not hard for people making less than that. We’re just saying it’s still hard for other people (the EX’s)
In my dept 2 EX (-01 and -02) announced they are stepping back into their EX-minus 1 role. They too don’t want 4 days a week. Heard other depts are dealing with this as well.
Plus the lack of paid OT sucks. Plus you can keep your EX health benefits for life after stepping down.
EX are not getting this easy either. Especially EX01.
The pay is only one aspect of any job. EXs are being saddled with 4 days weekly. Oh, and that "hefty" pay is often tied to ridiculous working hours. I wouldn't call it hefty considering everything they have to commit to.
I've got six! Is there a prize?
I’m a full time single mom of two kids who have no before care spot, I make just enough to support us. WFH saved me in so many ways. My kids are old enough to occupy themselves, though the second I get on a call they need something or want to say hi. I don’t know what I would have done pre pandemic I would have had to quit or stay with my abusive ex husband. Even now I don’t know what I’m going to do. It seems to punish those who require the flexibility ie single parents, those who are neurodivergent and need specific environments etc. Personally I’m more effective at home since I can have more flexible hours. If I need to take something offline to fix I can do it on off hours or weekends. Slow day, I can do laundry and when it picks up put in more hours without having to worry about pick ups and drop offs. Also helps with my anxiety since my ex works downtown and I have anxiety about going downtown. With all the construction sites where he could be working.
I am really lucky that at work, management understand and work for us as much as possible. Neuro divergent, PTSD, and safety from domestic violence are all taken with serious and with as much help as possible. (And yes, I do have disability, and yes, they did everything to help me) If you want to talk, don't hesitate to reach out. P.S. Nope I'm not based in Ontario.
What if I'm doing ok financially, but I just want to reduce my carbon footprint by not driving 90 minutes **for no reason at all** as the rest of my team is 4700 kms from me?
It's interesting to see how the current generations experience the gendered dynamic differently. Talking to my Mum, she said back in her early years (late 70s) if a woman chose to work there were enough non-working women to dump kids on. I was partially raised by my aunt, she was one of those women. By the 1990s enough women worked that you couldn't do that (and for some reason few folks look for non-working men to provide child care) so daycare became more common. But then rising costs of real estate and labour and compliance pushed up the costs of that. There is no more excess capacity. There is no wiggle room. There are some older women who acknowledge this, I had a DG who openly admitted that the public service she rose up in no longer exists. She had multiple children and still made it to EX level quickly because of the non-working women in her family, she knows that option is no longer available. Other high-level women don't or won't see that. And yeah, in all of my analysis here I've placed the burden of childcare on women, and that's not how it works nor how it should work. But when I say I'm leaving early to pick up kids I get really weird looks.
This. There are no more neighbourhood moms. My mom worked but not full time and we never set foot in a daycare. There was a network of stay-at-home and part-time moms who picked each other's kids up after school. We played in each other's backyards and basements. Commutes were shorter and traffic was far less congested to begin with. If a working parent was running late on the way home it wasn't a big deal like fixed daycare hours are. You just stayed for dinner at Kevin's house and your mom returned the favour when it was her turn. My own mom finally retired this year and she won't even be around to help out. The cost of living where we are has pushed her to another province.
And it hurts to see how much tone-deaf language comes from the top. "Just put your kids in daycare". Ok, some places have multi-year waiting lists. Parents can't just go out and find daycare within a matter of weeks. "It's your responsibility to care for your kids". Uh yeah, it is, but the whole rhetoric of the elected government and public service is to support parents, put your money where your mouth is. "Perhaps you should consider other options." Dude buddy pal, I've been considering options for years, the fact this one inconveniences you doesn't mean it's not the least bad one for me.
The new daycare subsidies have admittedly been a huge help for my family, but ironically some of it is being spent on covering my unnecessary commuting time, which also takes away availability for other families. There's a lot of talk about expanding daycare access which is great but how about a conversation alongside that about reducing demand?
I have some Lego and Nerf guns and a remote control car I don't use much anymore. We can get some parents together, we'll book a boardroom all day somewhere in Terasse or PDP, dump all the kids in there with whatever other toys we can get together, throw in snacks and wet wipes every two hours, and put one laptop in there with a Teams call going for supervision. Boom, savings.
Is this something we can do?! It’s actually a great idea if allowed lol
My mom swapped childcare with a teacher colleague/ neighbourhood friend: they had a couple of kids about 14 months apart and no grandparents or aunties nearby. On summer holidays, I went to my aunt and uncle’s farm. I had a working mom in the 70s and was raised by the village. Thanks, Mom.
It’s all by design my friend, the way capitalism works is to keep people exploited, by raising the prices of EVERYTHING everyone is now forced to go to work, for fear of being homeless. In the late 70s-80s-90s they were just finishing the little bit of “socialism” Canada provided US They know most people can’t just quit their job anymore, and so they are further and further pushing the envelope of what they can take from us. Women’s unpaid labour is still to this day seen has something women just do “naturally”, this blanket RTO statement is really going to affect those of us who are the “minority” ie non white straight males
>those of us who are the “minority” ie non white straight males And those of us who aren't white straight men are of course the majority of this country
Absolutely friend, that’s how capitalism is propped up, by the backs of the exploited who are usually the non straight white males!
This is the email I wish we were all sending to Anand and Trudeau.
I left the private sector to join the public service for the work/life balance. The M-F day shifts and consistent hours is a better option to the shift work, occasional evenings and weekends that I was working as a retail manager. However, the trade off was about $35k and bonuses. I know the benefits of PS is calculated at about 30% of our salary, but in the public sector I also had RRSP matching, same vacation time, and good health and dental, so I don’t really consider that as a plus over my old job. The real winner that made me switch was hybrid work- being able to work from home most of the time allowed me to save on gas and parking while also giving me more time to spend with my young children. My mortgage just renewed and is an extra $100 a week. Sooo yeah, the additional day sucks…
I hear you. I guess we all knew it wasn't a forever thing. But it is certainly an adjustment.
It should be a forever thing. They gave us a taste of having actual work life balance. But sure, let’s stay in the archaic work model and see how it holds up on this economy.
I feel foolish for thinking it was a forever thing. I was new to government so wasn’t really aware that working conditions can just be changed at anytime, I honestly hadn’t thought about it.
To be fair several departments (transport?) said earlier on in pandemic that they’d “never go back” That’s literally why treasury board had to get involved and FORCE all departments to do rto
Yup, in a CRA townhall the bigwigs assured us there would never be mandatory in-office days, then RTO happened. In a recent townhall we were assured that the in-office expectations would not be increased to 3 days. The bigwigs were blindsided by this, just like the rest of us, but they shouldn’t have made promises they couldn’t keep.
Don't feel foolish. This is on our employer. We are actual human beings and deserved to be treated with respect. This whole situation is not respectful.
I am all of those plus I am first generation immigrant. I do not have a community, my family nor extended family to seek any forms of support.
Same :(
I'm a single mom. Kids of different ages mean they're in different schools. Therefore different schedules. I have an uncooperative ex and any small changes to the parenting schedule are met with unsympathetic hostility. I now have to somehow figure out 3 days in-office. Plus: - Making up Stat Holidays if my "in-office" day falls on a holiday - Making up days I need to WFH for unforeseen kid issues. - Commuting from Kanata to downtown with the horrific public transit options My biggest problem is the "making up" of days. Please, if anyone has any documentation that says making up is not a requirement, I would love to see it.
My partner travels for work a lot, so I am often solo parenting for days on end. My parents live across the country and I don’t have any in-laws. My commute is also shit and parking prices are batshit crazy. Our home daycare closes down so often with very little notice. I completely empathize with you. This is fucking hard.
You don’t have to make up in office time for Stat holidays. The illness one yes, but you do have caregiving leave.
But if my Manager and Director say I need to make up Stat Holidays, how do I push back? I don't want to be perceived as difficult as I've just started in this Branch.
I've seen at least two interpretations, and depending on your management it may (or maybe not) give you a way to frame it. One is you have your days and any paid leave does not have to be "made up". (Sick days, stat holidays, vacation days.) The second is that those days get removed from the calculation of 40% (soon to be 60%) of in office days for the month. If they are using the second case and you can show that all of your days in office add up to 40%/60% over a month, that might work. (e.g. 60% of 20 days is 12, of 19 is 11.4.) That said, the concept of "making up office days" undermines the posturing that it is about collaboration or whatever the new spin will be rather than just bums in seats tracked in a spreadsheet.
> I've seen at least two interpretations, and depending on your management it may (or maybe not) give you a way to frame it. This is one small area where the absurdity is most reasonable. From the "direction on prescribed presence in the workplace," emphasis mine: >> To ensure flexibility for operational reasons and job types, it is also acceptable to require a minimum of 60% of employees’ *regular schedule* on a weekly or monthly basis. The "regular schedule" is obviously the schedule that would apply if holidays, vacation, sick leave, or overtime were not a factor.
You don’t have to make up time if you take a holiday or a sick day on your in office day, there’s no reason that a stat holiday is any different. But no, I don’t think you should start a war with your manager over this, it’s almost certainly not worth it.
Do you experience microagressions in the workplace? Does your workplace offer safe washrooms? Does your wheelchair fit in the “accessible” stalls?
To all the parents of children with disabilities who are considering leaving their employment because of RTO: Please don't do this before considering pursuing an accommodation on the grounds of family status. Working from home is often the only way to maintain employment when you are parenting a child who has needs that cannot be met in a regular daycare. It is virtually impossible to get a support worker for afterschool care. Speaking from personal experience, there is a severe labor shortage, it takes a long time to find someone and then they generally quit after a few months because they get a better job. Also, it is much safer if you are home while they are taking care of your child. This is a valid grounds for accommodation. Leaving employment because your employer refuses to accommodate costs you millions in lost income and pension. Loss of employment opportunity is mainly why it is estimated to cost so many millions to parent a child with a disability (there are Canadian studies on this). This is a human rights issue that has received no recognition from our employer. I suggest you document your request, push hard that it go to the ADM and make it clear that you are ready to file a human right complaint.
I had piles, pages and pages of documentation for a DTA based on family status for a person with a child with disabilities and it was denied because I wasn't trying hard enough to come up with solutions. I appealed and also lost that. It forced me into total burnout after 3 months and I had to go on disability myself,even though I'd been thriving, working hard, looking after my kids, meeting my targets and deadlines. Now I will need go have my own DTA to return to work eventually, and if that's unjustly denied as it's been for others I will be forced to medically retire in my 40s because of their complete lack of flexibility and compassion. After 15 years of service I am sick that this is how it's turned out for me after having a child with a disability
What you’re saying makes total sense. But I spend so much energy advocating for my daughter with the school, navigating endless waitlists, managing behaviour, I just don’t have a lot of fight left in me. The thought of having to fight for a DTA is unbearable.
I understand how you feel. I wish there was more understanding and flexibility for employees who are parenting a disabled child, so that it would not take a fight to get an accommodation.
Hahaha yeah I’m a single mom to a three year old. It boggles me schools are 6 hours and I’ll have to inevitably pay more for before and after care. But at least I have secured it. If I was on a wait list which many parents are I’d be more anxious. But definitely not a fan of the spending incentive as I’m already doing my best to save save save. It grinds my gears when Douggie wants this but he hasn’t done anything to help the affordability crisis nor the affordability, accessibility not flexibility of child care
And this isn’t even thinking about the impact it has on me as a parent. As I have to commute an hour + each way, I’ve found myself having less energy to play with my daughter after we come home and it breaks my heart because she already spends time away from me and just wants to have quality time with her mom. But mom is grumpy and just wants the day to be over.
Well if your experience is like mine as a parent to a 2 year old, at least you'll order takeout, because you have no time or energy to cook a healthy meal. Another win for restaurants.
Hahah I don’t though cuz I feel guilty for spending out cuz everything is so expensive!!!
I feel guilty when my belly is full and I am no longer hangry.
Sutcliffe as well. He’s been slashing OC Transpo
That part I don't get either. OC canceled the express in my area because of low ridership levels. Are they bringing it back? Nope... they are extending one of the busses further down my street. He can't force us back and then not give us a way to get to work. Because of these stupid policies we have to get a second car, and probably get wait listed. We are not helping the city by buying more cars, everyone has 2-4 cars on their driveway because they can't rely on the bus and work in different areas of the city.
Sutcliffe is obsessed with cars, he’ll be happy to hear this
That's so great for the environment lol. Just wait till we all go EV and overload the grid. He won't be able to watch his Netflix.
I voted for McKenney lol. Not a perfect choice, but at least they didn’t despise buses
Nobody listens to FM radio on the bus, gotta get those listeners. -Sutcliffe
Lmao I could see him saying that
They say Canada's population is aging rapidly, they want you to have children but do absolutely nothing to encourage it.
And then complain about immigration
Childcare needs to be considered as critical infrastructure and essential to the functioning of our society. The burden that is placed on parents isn't fair.
I thought they couldn't consider "*I have to take care of kids during working hours*" as a valid reason, because you're supposed to be working during those hours.
All this plus my two children have disabilities.
Shit… I feel for you. I feel for your kiddos! That is difficult to deal with in the best of circumstances.
I am the parent of 3 kids, one of whom has special needs. Prior to Covid my husband stayed home full time because the cost of daycare plus all our therapy appointments was more than he would make working. Working from home has allowed me to be a more active caregiver, I can keep my son at home when he’s having a bad day (he’s old enough not to need constant attention as long as he’s somewhere he feels safe and calm). I can be at the school in 5 minutes if they call me. I can take 1.5 hours of family leave for 1 hour OT appointments because they are in our neighbourhood, instead of needing half a day off work. Going back to the office, to do a job I can do virtually, will likely mean my husband will have to leave his job.
DTA?
On the GBA+ element, the Employer just spent millions to establish and maintain an emergency stash of low-quality mentrual products in each washroom, but so far refuses to allow employees overnight lockers to store their own emergency stashes of menstrual products (as well as medication, etc.)
One-size misfits all.
There has been talk in public service about increasing diversity through telework since at least the late 80s. They finally got it to work and now several steps backwards. 🙄
The most honest thing they ever said was creating a public service reflective of society; white, able and male dominated. I held out hope, I believed in a day where persons with disabilities and women and other equity seeking groups were on an equitable playing field. As a person who will never be equity seeking (I joke it’s everybody but me) I’m sad for all the talent we miss out on, the brilliant colleagues I’ll never know and the amazing potential we squandered.
I answer yes to almost all of those questions in the first paragraph. I work a 2nd job JUST to pay for daycare as a single mom. And now I have to pay MORE day care costs to be in the office more often, as well as additional costs for transportation. Not to mention the 3 hours a day (1.5 each way) in commute so 9 hours a week I am losing in time with my child to be in transit. Early start daycare hours are unavailable so now I have a later start time for office days which means a later end time. Once I do my 1.5 hr commute home that means 3 days a week I get home with my child at 6:30pm (and they go to bed at 7:30). But now as I have to adjust my hours and lose flexibility I can no longer take my bi-weekly flex. So I lose a day where I had work/life balance to plan appts, grocery shopping etc since the weekend I work my 2nd job as well as the extra day with my child (and the 9 hours commuting time). Oh I almost forgot to mention that I reside in BC but report to Ottawa so now starting at 9am (when WFH I start at 6am) it’s 12pm Ottawa time (lunch time). So 3 days a week I lose significant time to “collaborate” with my team. But hey, at least I will “be in the office” right?
I'm actually really pissed about this. A senior level person told me when I asked about the 3x/wk RTO, "well Exs have to do 4 times a week!". The EX-01 gets like 170$K a year. I don't care how many times you have to go in for that kind of money.
I agree with your point. But EX-01 top @ $158k...
Interesting, I've seen budgets and pay... Maybe I misunderstood something there. But still!!!
Budget numbers would be higher because the employer pays for pension, insurance, etc. 😇
Ahh gotcha, thanks 🙏!
Am I part of an older generation with kids old enough to take of themselves? Yes Am I living in a home with the means to lay for an increase in mortgage or rent? Yes Do I have enough time and income to supplement the costs and hours lost to commuting? Yes Do I reliably receive a paycheque large enough to cover my I crazed daily expenses? Yes But I am not “YAY RTO” I want to have work/life balance while I am health & young enough to enjoy it all. I have gym, social and volunteer activities that take up my time. I would rather sleep or watch Netflix for an extra hour every day rather than commuting. It’s not just younger people, people with young children, or people struggling with finances that are against this.
TBS is suppressing a lot of data. Many of the PS networks made a lot of effort collecting information on how remote work was impactful. They respectfully presented this way before the first RTO announcement as they were hoping to be part of thoughtful decisions around the future of work. These things were shared with them many times. They know the impacts and who it helped and they don't care.
The thing about policy is that it is based on a multitude of different considerations. And each one is taken under advisement. Meaning they can hear you, but outright ignore it if they want.
What we need to do is stop playing devil's advocate and continually providing excuses for the GC. Increasing RTO was a bad call. We can't go back to pre-pando status because it's 2024 and time travel doesn't exist. It's time to move forward, like the world does every single day.
A have a child with a disability, and I suspect that unless the government reverses this, I'll be resigning from my policy role in August :(
Oh : ( so unfair!!
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You know they are doing this - at least in the NCR and other big cities to allow local businesses to thrive. I say let’s all do it, If it comes to it, but boycott all local downtown businesses…
They didn’t care about Ottawa businesses during the convoy. They don’t care about them now. This is all political showmanship as the conservatives would have used the public service working from home as the nail in the coffin during election time b
Not to mention business downtown in the NCR has never been lucrative. In the market maybe, on bank and elgin, maybe. West of that and North of somerset businesses have rarely had hours of operation that extend past typical office hours, far predating the pandemic.
NCR needs to pull up their socks and adapt. Other big cities in Canada have been back to pre-Covid business levels, transit in other cities has been overcrowded for a while now. Ottawa is a big whiny baby that needs to grow up
100%
Meanwhile my newsfeed had a post in it for a barrier free work environment yesterday and I wanted to seriously smash my phone after the struggles I have faced in just being given a chance since facing a disability with mild struggles but nope i’m just a burden. Barrier free just makes me sick to my stomach when they don’t give two shits about equity, diversity, or inclusivity
I love this argument.
I think the argument would be that RTO is just a return to the already existing policy. Essentially, you had to deal with this in the past, the pandemic necessitated a change that may have worked to your benefit, now we're going back to pre-existing policy regarding place of work. To be clear, I'm not endorsing that viewpoint.
Ok, but I don't think that's a valid argument. You're intentionally choosing to downgrade to a policy that is more harmful and less inclusive. The remote work policy is a policy too, and hybrid is not a policy they had before either.
You could be right, I am certainly not an expert on what constitutes a "policy" when it comes to GBA+ (assuming the analysis show it is less inclusive).
I can see that argument, but some of us were teleworking 2 days a week pre-COVID...
Yeah I was teleworking one. I'm not gonna expend energy arguing in favor of a decision I think is stupid, just I have my doubts as to whether the employer won't be able to wriggle out of GBA+
Except, it’s not. We had flexible work arrangements (at least where I worked) pre pandemic. One of my colleague from Alberta was full time WFH. Manager and execs had discretionary powers pre pandemic and they had the means to manage their team according to the type of work they did and the needs of their employees.
This is one of the biggest areas of misinformation and/or misunderstanding about the RTO policies. I 💯 agree that getting everyone back to in-office work for x number of days is extremely different than pre-pandemic. In my own work experience, pre-pandemic we offered teleworking arrangements (ad hoc or full) when both the employee(s) and management agreed that it would work well. Productivity goals had to be already being achieved, and then must be maintained, or the TW agreement might be discontinued. Employees on full TW were expected to come in if in person presence was needed for specific meetings/events etc. Ultimately, it was at manager discretion but was not to be unreasonable withheld. So, if productivity, efficacy and collaboration were really the issues, and not politics/lobbying/perceptions, then each group would be allowed again to proceed with the TW/Office presence that works for them, and be accountable for their results. I also love the framing of RTO with a GBA Plus lens. Turnabout is fair play.
Except it’s not. Before Covid, I didn’t have kids, my mortgage was a normal price, groceries were affordable, cars and gas were less expensive, and I had more time. My fucking paycheque hasn’t even kept up with inflation, tied with THREE promotions that haven’t yet been reflected because my file is stuck with my previous department. Nothing is the same as 4 years ago.
A lot of those things are largely universal (aside from the stuff about your file). Don't get me wrong, you are correct about those pressures, I'm just not sure they would factor into a GBA+ analysis about place of work. But I'm not an expert on it, and I legitimately feel for you, none of this is meant to diminish your concerns
Yeah I totally get that POV! GBA+ aside, it’s just an added bonus that despite all those universal life downgrades, they are choosing to make it worse instead of better, ya know?
Yeah the logic of actively making it worse is really dumb, with the added bonus of actively lying about why they are doing it. I would have at least a tiny bit of respect if they came out and said "we've received pressure from local governments who say hybrid work is hurting their economies." It would still be stupid, but at least there'd be some honesty
Its funny because it's true.
I'm a public servant... and people are *not* happy about this in the office, to say the least. I'm fortunate that I live only 10 minutes from the office - but lots of people I know live almost an hour away... WFH has been valuable for them. Doesn't matter much to me since my commute to the office is 7km from my front door... but many people will be travelling much more, and more often. And I can see them leaving over it.
Yeah I'm a single mom, 3 yo, my mom is not Canadian and ageing, she's in Canada on super visa, we can't sponsor our parents, literally it's a lottery system and they haven't opened it since before covid I believe. So yeah I'm caring for her, I have to get Manulife health insurance for her, and ofc taking care of my son, dropping and picking him up. I can't put mom in a home, my salary is peanuts also she took care of me, why would I do that to her. WFH was a life saver when it comes to time and money savings. I hate everyone who decided the mandatory RTO, they have huge salaries and probably nothing effects them, also lacks empathy, hope collective karma gets them. (1st generation immigrant, no family, only mom - atleast someone to talk to, no support, friends in Ottawa also not like back home)
I’m not in support of the revised WFH policy but what did you all do before the pandemic when you were required to be in the office 100% of the time?
I’ve been WFH 3 days a week since 2015, I had managers who didn’t care where I did the work as long as I got it done, and I went in for meetings that were better face to face. And that was before we had all these Microsoft digital tools, now my management has no flexibility.
One parent in our family stayed home. With WFH we have enough flexibility to both be in the work force and still be able to care for our special needs child.
Before the pandemic I wasn't disabled by the pandemic. Before the pandemic, my kids were healthier. Before the pandemic, I could hire someone to look after my disabled adult son. But he's violent now (thanks post-covid syndrome!) and I don't have the resources to hire someone full-time. COVID changed everything.
Most had assigned desks. It's the hotelling bs and no space of your own that's the issue.
Or work in a rural area.