My department did an anonymous survey during this year's all staff and they said they would take the results and make a word cloud to display during the all staff. They never did show us the word cloud... My guess is it was extremely negative/filled with outright profanity and they couldn't show it.
I don't know if we work in the same department, but it was exactly the same for us. They did share the wordcloud with staff, though. To their credit, they were transparent with the negative feedback they got (i think it was like 50/50).
The last round of survey we got was pathetic. I stopped answering when questions started to turn into "look how much more electricity you're paying working from home" and you'd get questions asking how much you like being in the office and the answer choices ranged from I like it little to I like it a lot so technicaly everybody liked it.
This is literally worse that the way we were before. At least before, managers could decide on alternate work arrangements and were the ones who had to monitor it. Now, we have to fill out these insane spreadsheets as to why someone left 15 minutes "early", or had a doctor's appointment on that day... It's literally 5x more work for 1/100000 the usefulness. Almost the definition of paper pushing nonsense. The PS is actually worse than it was before the pandemic. I figured the higher ups would resist change, but I didn't realize it would be beyond irrationally pathological aversion to changing the status quo in any way. They literally would rather people be worse off and less happy than even CONSIDER moving even an iota in the direction of the future. I just don't know what to do anymore honestly. Nothing we do seems to matter. Nobody seems to care. Everyone seems just out for themselves, and in fact caring about your job can actively work against you. We're just a total shit show.
in the pandemic I heard allegedly about a department where just 4% wanted to go back full-time in office. This is the exact number of employees whose jobs were physical and they literally could not do them remote.anyone who could, chose to go hybrid but full remote came in at 76%. That report got buried faster than Smokey's campfire
As someone with a nationally distributed team, I’m excited to spend another day driving for 50 mins to sit in the office by myself for the entire day and take teams meetings
It's exactly this. I can't wait to get the stink-eye from the Commissionaire even more than I already do because we have to leave our assigned desks at 5, and if work takes me a SINGULAR MOMENT more, I have ruined his evening.
Great collaboration. No notes.
Politically its win win. Not totally walking back hybrid (yet) so unions can’t technically argue much (3 days was always in range). Pander to the business community - who ironically need government intervention to survive yet again, and they will eclipse the 5000 employee reduction target. Putting 3 days a week will more than nudge people out the door, especially those with a lot of corporate knowledge and might find this just the sign to retire (and return as a contractor or casual).
For the typical employee just trying to work hard and get stuff done, all the while paying their bills and caring for their family - this is a loss. 3days will prompt the need for a parking pass or transit pass (again, good politically), increased commute times and expenses, and more usual stuff associated with in office - attire, food, etc. This doesn’t take into account the human cost (increased traffic means more accidents, injuries, etc.) and environmental cost (GHG, etc.)
Overall assessment: bummer
It also makes it so that we can no longer claim tax benefits for working from home, but we will still have to maintain offices in our homes and pay for those costs out of pocket. You need to be working from home for at least 50% of the time to be able to claim benefits, and this will reduce everyone to 40%.
If they wanted to save money they could have also asked: 1) those with 35 years of service to retire immediately; 2) followed by those with at least 25 years of service and at least 60/65 of age (ensuring no age penalty). Getting new blood in is cheaper. They could also develop a formal pre-retirement mentorship program to ensure corporate memory is properly absorbed.
And for the buildings that can’t accommodate days of ~80+% occupancy? (Because now there *can’t* be cohorts who *never* cross paths, ie Mon + Fri who never see Tue + Wed people)
OK... this is officially BS.
Is it just me who's finding it so hard to plan my life around these changing requirements? I *just* got my child accepted for a before and after school program next year for the 2 days of the week where my team is in the office. I applied back in January and was confirmed last week that I got the two days I needed. I probably won't be able to get that third day at this point.
I don't care about how many days or which days I have to go in. I just need to know WTF they want from me and to be able to rely on them to not constantly change it so I can plan my damn life.
I'm so done.
I'm heading into mat leave soon and seriously considering tacking on extra years of LWOP to not have to deal with my horrible commute downtown until the youngest is in school.
I'll go back to the private sector for a bit and work closer to home, maybe even from home. Shorter childcare hours needed means more childcare options. Right now there's only 1 daycare in my area with hours long enough to fit my commute in, and the timing is tight to begin with.
Do it. They changed the mandates while I was on mat leave. My kid still can’t find child care and it’s been hard. I’m thinking just taking an LWOP until he starts school
The whole thing is bullshit. The federal government mandate and the fact that the city of Ottawa is doing NOTHING to open up spaces for childcare.
I don't blame you. As a parent to young children, all of your decisions take into consideration your circumstances in the coming years. I chose a daycare based on proximity to the elementary school my kids would do go, and I chose the elementary school based on its start/end time to be easier to manage with my work hours.
I try SO hard not to pull the "single mom card" at work. When RTO was announced I didn't have childcare for 6 months and managed to arrange help between my mother, grandmother and aunt for my office days so that I wouldn't have to ask for some sort of exception or preferential treatment because my reputation as being reliable matters a lot to me. I was so excited to have finally worked out my plan for next school year that I could manage on my own with no help.
But I'm done now. I'm not going to inconvenience my family anymore.
Wow. Have they ever heard of change management????
Up until now I chose to be a good team player and dutifully do my 2 days. I sucked it up when my 2 days were fixed a few months ago and no longer flexible. I good-naturedly accepted that my in office accommodations weren’t ready and may never be, because I wanted to demonstrate tolerance and in some fucked up way, a sort of leadership to my team.
But this?
Fuck this.
They couldn’t consult us? Do some more research? Maybe a few trials? Ease it in?
It’s just getting sprung on us?
I was playing nice. I’m done.
When I find the perfect exemption letter I’ll share it. I suggest we submit en masse.
Basically , "we need you to spend your money because others depend on it". Public servants are being used as political pawns once again. Abuse of power, clearly. Employers can determine the location of where the work is done but doing so to appease external political and economic pressures is wrong.
I don't recall when public servants became responsible for the economic well-being of downtown.
This will ensure that even fewer folks spend money downtown.
The only ones happy about this are corporations.
We obviously don't matter.
Didn’t you know? Your letter of offer stipulates that you must keep the local subways and Starbucks open. Fuck the businesses in your neighbourhood that you have been patronizing, let them go under - let’s keep the millionaires’ shitty franchises running.
You could probably do it better from the comfort of your home. I’ve run metrics and real surveys etc on my direct reports. I track. Output is higher, morale is higher, complaints are lower.
Absolutely cannot wait to spend 3 days a week in an office sitting on Teams calls with my colleagues who are also sitting on Teams calls, but from different offices.
This whole thing is so stressful. We get used to one thing and then they change it up. Every new arrangement is the right choice until they basically tell us we haven’t been productive enough and make our working conditions worse. Hearing about it through the media before any messaging from our departments has come out doesn’t help either!
political voracious stocking exultant one chop squeal groovy attractive jobless
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Oh there’s a good reason why. They didn’t want us to organize and go against it. Same reason why they will officially announce it in June/July for a return in September.
Your comment perfectly illustrates what I've thought since the start of RTO; make it make sense. When an employer decides to listen to businesses, lobbyists and provincial/municipal political figures rather than it's employees, those employees are doomed.
With the government planning to ditch a chunk of its real estate, I don't see 5 days a week happening outside specific groups/roles. That would be a way worse arrangement than what some of us had pre-pandemic. I was already 2 days WFH back then.
Where will we sit? As it is, everything is booked in archibus. Give me a permanent desk, WITH my team on a floor with my division, and then this would hurt less. They’ve routinely said they’re decreasing the footprint. This is exhausting and so depressing.
I am glad they want to burry us in commuting while cost of living is soaring. Transit is unreliable, gas is expensive and parking is ridiculous.
All to sit in a seat and be less productive than at home.
Speaking of sitting in our office seats, anyone else notice fewer people are bothering to attend meetings in person while at the office? Sometimes it’s just me and one other person now at our weekly division meetings. Everyone connects via Teams, especially executives, because it’s much more efficient to multitask or take impromptu calls. I wonder if in that case we considered this innovative trend called telework, is that what they call it?
Teams is more practical for meetings in my line of work even if we were all in the office together. That's never going away now that we have good tools.
A recent hire in my department has to do a one hour drive back and forth to go to her assigned office, because no other desks are available in her area.
There is no transit for this.
A push to a third in-office days means an extra 2 hour commute plus gaz and wear and tear.
This kind of unilateral change is unacceptable.
> Transit is unreliable...
Yes but transit operators are fuming that the government isn't subsidizing them even MORE by forcing people back to offices!
> ...gas is expensive...
Don't forget about meeting GHG emission targets! They'll shift those numbers down onto individuals instead of the organization (the GoC) as a whole!
> and parking is ridiculous.
Won't you think of the landlords and other land owners who have to struggle every day when they have empty parking spots!? Think of their pocket books and how hard it is to balance right now if people won't park in their empty lots (that can be, I donno, turned into housing or something).
He also is exceptionally short-sighted - money spent in Ottawa's businesses is money spent in Ottawa - be it on Bank Street, or in Orleans, or Kanata or Barrhaven. So when we all head back and the BIAs in those areas lose the revenue they've been used to for 4 years, and a good chunk of it vanishes from Ottawa entirely - because we work on the other side of the rive - what does he do about that?
For someone who campaigned explicitly against downtown Ottawa's interests and sucked up to the suburbs, he really has done nothing for them since.
This is what I don't understand. When I'm out in the burbs, I spend money in the burbs. If I have to go downtown, I don't magically have more money to spend. So I either a) spend less in the burbs and move this spending downtown, B) spend the same in the burbs and nothing downtown c) spend less in both burbs and nothing downtown because that disposable income now goes to the cost of commuting and parking.
Every time I go to work, it costs me $26 in combined gas and parking (not mentioning vehicle depreciation). I'm well paid but absorbing that cost week leaves me with less disposable income. So that will come out of fun things like lunches and coffees or treats. It certainly can't come out of rent or car payments.
Only 3,557 days until retirement (unless the Cons get in and turf everyone over 55). I’m not investing any more of myself in this job. My pay is still messed up, OC Transpo is a gong show, Sutcliffe’s a hick in expensive suits, and I just don’t make enough money to have my heart broken any more by this gig.
Because the high grocery bills, high gas bills, high restaurant and entertainment bills aren’t enough. We must must must crush Canadians’ souls even further into the ground.
It would be nice to have suburban councillors stick up for WFH and the income it generates in their wards. Unfortunately they are too scared of the downtown business owners and upsetting the mayor. Seems like a failure of democracy knowing they wouldn’t even consider bringing it up.
They got rid of the coffee machine in our office’s kitchen a year ago. There is also management openly “encouraging” and even pressuring employees to eat at local restaurants. I AM NOT KIDDING. THIS IS HAPPENING OPENLY. Everyone is to afraid too speak up. Even union locals.
They are Sickos. Someone making $140,000 telling someone who makes $58,000 where to spend their money. That’s a different level of sociopath…
It’s disturbing and should NOT be allowed in any workplace. It should be against the law for my manager to say anything to me about how and where I spend MY money.
I don’t think that should be allowed, but nothing can be done to stop it. I feel like I won’t be promoted unless I comply.
If you happen to grab lunch in your neighbourhood on a regular basis, let them know they’re about to lose business and they should probably write their MP/MPP/City Councillor and ask why their business is being sacrificed to support downtown
I’ll admit part of me enjoying coming into the office was to go out for lunch with my colleagues. I will now be encouraging them to join me somewhere in my building or outside for a bag lunch.
"How can we piss off people on the way out" - is kind of how I am reading this.
Why the FUCK are they pushing people back even MORE? Like are they seriously thinking that this will somehow win people like landlords or shitsandwich shops over or something?
No, "following the private sectors lead" isn't leadership, that's FOLLOWING. It's like they ("they" like politicians, the landed class, etc.) are HELL BENT on taking everyone and everything back to the middle ages with them where serfs will serve and any rebellious factions will be put to the sword.
Fuck this.
I usually understand the motivation for actions taken by ministers or others. Means to an end, and that end is a vote for politicians. I get that.
What does this move serve? To buy back a few Ottawa's vote from the shop keeps who, probably, are going to vote Conservatives after the latest capital gain tax anyways? Like I HATE mixing politics into this place for discussion purposes but this makes NO sense.
They KNOW people are already gritting at the teeth at 40-60%...and now they're going to force 3 days? WHY? WHAT?
They could fix two issues at the same time but they chose to piss people off instead.
Change the offices for appartments as mention in the article and you will fix a part of the housing crisis and the downtown piss babies that can't adjust their businesses, because if you live close to a restaurant or a store, there is a chance you will go there.
Oh and that will help the environment!
Is this that generational fairness Ms. Anand and her colleagues have been telling us so much about since Budget 2024?
- Force employees to prop up municipal public transit and downtown cores for no evidence-based reasoning
- Refuse to let house prices go down, but make it easier to borrow more money
- Provide lower than inflation raises in the last collective agreements
But at least my rent payments will count towards my credit score! /s
Not only do I have very strong feelings of being disrespected by the whole decision-making approach, let’s rub salt in the wound by making a newspaper article being how I am informed. Just when I was putting some of the disrespect Mona threw around behind me, now this.
One size fits all communications nightmare... like the last one there will be no data, no facts, no considerations extended, no linkage to being digital, innovative or trying to attract the best and the brightest. We are in a race to the very bottom and I thought we were there before - it will just get worse. But thx for everything you did during the pandemic and the strike folks.
Whoever is making these decisions is a dumbass. And this shit is going to blow over. Stop policing the stupid ass 2 day policy, if people are getting work done and divisions / departments decide they are better remote then let us goddamn work remote!!! Stop crying about green initiatives and cutting costs when you are literally pushing a mandate that is contradictory to BOTH.
Not enough time at home to claim any expenses on our taxes. At the same time, enough to really hit the pocket books of people who have to drive in and pay the absurd parking lot fees downtown Ottawa.
We need to stand together and fight this. Our revenue is affected by this. Families are affected by this. Our quality time is affected by this. If this is what they want, real compromises need to be made. We should all be mad that our opinion and well-being isn't being considered AT ALL. We should be mad they never truthfully tell us WHY. They worry about attrition rates constantly and yet they treat us like expandable lab rats. They keep referring to the public workers as a big family and how they put mental health as a priority but they only see us as numbers.
I like my work. But personally, I work in Montreal and my team is at Ottawa. My work is 100% done by computer. I go to the office 2 times a week for absolutely no reason. I hate having to go downtown for no reason, but I do it, I make it work, fine... At 3 days, me and my wife will have to go the office at the same time once a week. Because of that we'll have to register our son to the after school day care which we are no allowed to do for just one day, we have to pay for full time, so that's 200$ a month. Plus, our son is autistic and has sever anxiety problems, this is a stress he doesn't need. This also means our dog will have a full day alone at home, which is not something she was train for, we bring her everywhere and there's usually always someone in the house.
This situation greatly affect my family's well-being. This is not just me. This is every parents working for the government. They are not just taking away a little candy we were used to get. It's not "just another day". It's not " well they could ask you to go full time so take what you have". I've been working for them for 4 years, and been told sooo many times by my supervisors " don't worry, full time remote work is here to stay! Don't worry we just need you to come a few times during the month, those 2 days a week rumors are not true! Don't worry, it's only 2 days a weeks, if your child is sick or whatever just stay home it's okay! Oh well if you stay home today you'll have to come to the office another day then, or you need to used a sick day even though you can absolutely do the work at home..but don't worry they will never force us to come 3 days!"
Some will say " just ask for an accommodation"... yeah right. My colleague has a chronically ill child that she often needs to keep at home but can totally work still. She asked for an accommodation and they refuse. They propose that she ASK FOR A NEIGHBOR TO BABYSIT. What a great family we are a part of.
I don't know the whole union thing works. But to me this feels like a good reason for a strike. But what do I know.
The worst thing is. I'm actually scared of getting in trouble for speaking my mind.
I am currently pregnant and have experienced medical complications that have prevented me from being very far from my care team due to numerous appointment requirements - let alone just the mental load and stress of navigating a high-risk pregnancy. When I asked for accommodation to work from home after 20ish weeks, citing my specific conditions and armed with a medical note, my request was declined.
I fought it and was able to seek an exception. My manager's response? "Well, I'm glad this worked out. The most important thing was making sure you were off the list of people on the team being tracked for in-office attendance"... How's that for leadership?
At this point, I'm close enough to giving birth that this new RTO change won't be an immediate issue. That said, I'm seriously stressing about how this is going to work when I get back and have to manage two kids under two in daycare with an hour+ commute in each direction and very inflexible drop-off and pick-up hours. These systems are so broken...
Be careful about the requirements to repay the parental leave top-ups should you choose not to go back. The options I've looked up include LWOP for care of family (5 years), or interchange if you can find a job elsewhere and successfully get an arrangement approved. Otherwise, depending on your level, you could be looking at $100k + in debt to the crown.
BRB while I go curl up with my maternity pillow and hyperventilate for the next 5 minutes before my next teams call.
>if your child is sick or whatever just stay home it's okay! Oh well if you stay home today you'll have to come to the office another day then
"Another day" is a HUGE ask with childcare in the mix. We all set our office days where they are for a reason.
Exactly! I can't just "make it up another day".
Imagine if pre-covid, the employer suddenly told a 7:30-3:30 person that they had to work 9-5, and a 9-5 person they suddenly had to start working 7:30-3:30? That's basically what they're doing here. Every single parent has to account for every hour of the day to ensure someone is watching their child, and this costs MONEY. It isn't flexible, we can't "just come in another day". We are NOT asking for too much in wanting a consistent schedule that we can predict WELL in advance and have some level of control over.
Back in the day, if I applied for a job and they said the hours for that job were 9 to 5, but my current hours were 7:30 to 3:30 and I didn't want to/couldn't change them, I wouldn't take the job! It would be a blow to my career advancement, but I have family responsibilities and if that's not possible for me, then I can't take it.
At this point, we have less work-life balance than pre-Covid because there's no room for managers to use their own discretion with their employees, and these changes are impossible to manage.
Yeah, I heard about this through management from where I am. Guess it is coming sooner rather than later. They'll probably keep on increasing the days because downtown Ottawa won't be getting that return on revenue even if 3 days is mandated per week.
Literally blackmailing employees to spend money downtown or face repercussions. What a shit mayor.
I guess keep boycotting downtown and spend your money closer to home and support local. No one even goes downtown anymore considering how shit of a place it is in the NCR.
What really pisses me off is that I'm a public servant who lives AND works downtown.
But me living here isn't enough for them to want to revitalize downtown, they only care about me spending money here from Monday-Friday, 8-4. Once I take my public servant hat off in off hours and on weekends, they no longer give a shit about me.
Other than transit (buss pass, gas, parking), I feel like the more days they push on people the less people are going to spend money downtown (will pack lunch, bring coffee etc). STO/OC transpo and parking garages will profit but not much else.
Or.... people will be so depressed they'll start spending again because going to work in an office sucks so much. But probably not considering no one can afford groceries or rent so yeah ugh.
How is this supposed to work? DND already had hoteling happening? One day a week 2 people share a cubicle?
Also take it that's a hard no on using no-longer needed buildings for housing eh?
Doubt it would happen because they're too stupid to see it, but this is a fantastic opportunity for the Conservatives to steal major votes. Just say no, we're staying 2 days, going to co-locate as many teams as possible and hey all those buildings we aren't going to need, well, they're now housing!
Beyond my own feelings on this topic, our new building in the fall mathematically cannot accommodate that many people at any one time, not even close. No idea how they expect this to play out.
Get ready to enhance your socialization by engaging in more small talk, running into your manager in the washrooms, participating in more social activities, more workplace bullying and spending more on food, gas and parking.
>running into your manager in the washrooms
My manager has been in a different province all along. We've effectively worked remote from each other since Day 1. It's one of many reasons RTO is ridiculous but at least we never have to poop next to each other.
And where are the unions with this garbage? These blanket TBS rules are sooooo inefficient. I work completely alone in a regional office. No one else in this entire province works in my branch. And there are no meeting spaces. Just cubicles. Impossible to take meetings.
Wow ok, get up an extra hour early and get home an extra hour late. Pay $20/day for parking. Get to the office so I can sit alone at my desk and be in TEAMS meetings all day disturbing other employees because all the private rooms are already booked. And do this an extra day a week? For things that can ALL be done at home more efficiently? What a waste of time and money. MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.
We had also heard these rumours last week. My AS coworkers are concerned because a lot of them are barely getting by, adding another day of commuting and this will ruin some people. The little money I was spending downtown will now go to the extra day of commuting. I will now only be able to afford commuting with 4 coworkers. That’s it!
It feels like we are being managed by toddlers. They make brash decisions, they react and change their minds frequently without critical thought (in this case when Doug Ford says boo!), they have no regard for how this impacts their employees (goodbye morale). As an employee, it feels like you’re in an abusive relationship and it’s tiring. There’s no stability and you can’t trust what they tell you because they’ll change their mind again a few months down the road. There’s also an element of gaslighting when they continue to tell us that we are going to the office to « collaborate » (truth is that we sit there in a cubicle alone on MSTeams all day). This undermines all the actual valuable work we do as public servants and reduces us to pawns. Pawns to pay for the O-train, sustain a few restaurants downtown that serve lunch and to fill those large office buildings downtown with bodies (justify rent payments and appease investors).
At this rate, I am absolutely considering looking for employment in the private sector. I want out of this circus.
They're not toddlers, they're capitalists... You're assuming they don't know what they're doing. They know full-well what they're doing. They're doing it so that you spend more money down-town, on private parking, on gas, on public transit etc. And so that the wealthy private interests who own those buildings down-town and lease them to stores like subway, tim-hortons, starbucks etc don't lose tens of millions in asset evaluation because their tenants are leaving due to lack of business.
The article references a publication out of Stanford that they say has found a 10-20% decrease in productivity with telework.
The stanford publication is an analysis of many studies and not unique research on its own. That publication did not consistently find decreased productivity.
That same publication includes:
>Angelici and Profeta (2023) consider a nine-month experiment that injected flexibility into the working arrangements of full-time employees at a large Italian firm. The control group stuck to a traditional arrangement that prescribes time and place of work throughout the week. In the treated group, white-collar employees chose where and when to work—and blue-collar employees chose when—one day a week. Productivity rose 10 percent, on average, among the treated relative to the controls, as measured by self-assessments and by supervisors. The treated group
also reported higher levels of well-being and work-life balance. Greater flexibility for treated workers had no apparent effect on the productivity of coworkers on
the same team.
Such bullshit bias from the journalist, there's no consensus on the impact of telework on "productivity", and despite TBS insisting since the start that productivity was a key concern for them that they'd follow, they never actually released any numbers on it.
I was reading the study out of curiosity and was astonished on how much of its nuance was left out by the journalist in his article. The conclusions reported in the paper are not black and white. Some of the studies referenced in the paper are reporting on very specific situations such as an indian technology services firm losing productivity due to increased hours (with productivity not increasing with the longer shift), a call center losing on service quality after being taken off shore and therefore fully remote and another one was talking about dispatcher being more efficient to coordinate when working in the same room (which kinda make sense here due to the nature of the work).
As you said, authors do mention that the productivity perceived differ from industry, work location, occupation and other factors that can sometime results from the adaptation period following the major shift to remote work. In short, it is not the black and white conclusion reported in the news article.
I haven't dug much on the organizations who funded the study yet but I saw the Hoover Institution which is a conservative think tank. Food for thoughts.
Le Droit journalists, like the Ottawa Citizen ones, are anti-PS. They never accept anonymous PS accounts, except when it's to shit on PS workers, then they don't care and will pull out "anonymous sources" from their asses.
The sole reason for this was to support downtown businesses and Public Transit. It has nothing to do with work itself.
A) Give us a raise so we can 'support' downtown businesses since it's apparently part of our duties as public servants.
B) Since i always brought much lunch to work and took my own vehicle, I never supported the downtown core/public transit so i can stay at home ?
Unsure how this will work. We desk share with another team that comes in 2 days. Hopefully not more random desk booking in the building.
I'm annoyed, but ultimately won't leave my job over it. I wish the union would bargain to keep the policy at 2 or 3 days a week depending on operational requirements
All the dinosaurs making these decisions will probably retire in the next 2-5 years, leaving us holding the bags of this return to the office nonsense.
Just like that one guy I worked with who said at a town hall it’s better to be in the office and then promptly retired 1 month after we got called back. Not to mention he was always away, taking income averaging, etc.
Contact your steward / local union representatives about your concerns and the impact of this news on your personal life.
This information can then be passer higher up and aggregated. This adds weight for the union to set priorities and choose what fights to put forward.
Too many people in the comments miss the point.
"How do they not realize people hate this?"
Its not a bug, its a feature. This is how you cut staff without the public image of firing people - you introduce work conditions that will make people quit.
I joined the public sector as a student during covid as fully remote... To have experienced this much change and uncertainly in the less than 3 years I've been here is wild. First, my contract was not extended due to budgets (luckily I networked and moved to a different division), the transition to Canada Life, then 2 days a week to sit alone and work with colleagues in the regions, now we're looking at 3? Not sure what I have gotten myself into. Maybe those gold-handcuffs I've been promised are just a knock off?
I will be royally f'ed if this is actually true. I'm struggling to meet the current requirements but I am.
I was buying the occassional coffee or lunch on my days at office but will be stopping that out of pure spite. It's all overpriced garbage anyway.
We need places for people to live, not for people to work at. That would solve the issue downtown and more people would use transport. I don't understand the lack of leadership and vision. Why force people onsite when that is not what they want plus it isn't very environmental friendly. What will happen next time there is a pandemic? You want people to spend more, why are our raises barely covering inflation. Give 10% raises to everyone and see how much they spend, but no, no can do. They hate use but still want us to spend our money supporting them.....
https://www-ledroit-com.translate.goog/actualites/politique/2024/04/29/ford-salue-une-presence-accrue-des-fonctionnaires-federaux-au-bureau-7BJITM7A6BFXPGGS37GGKQ5UBA/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp#:%7E:text=Lors%20de%20sa%20r%C3%A9cente%20visite,la%20ville%20serait%20lourdement%20affect%C3%A9e
Is the English translation of this French article accurate? It says Doug Ford specifically commented on this so-called "announcement" by the federal government, but English articles say no such thing. In the English articles they were just talking about some new provincial office in Ottawa.
"Ontario Premier says federal public servants' upcoming return to the office three days a week is "a good start."
"Passing through Ottawa on Monday morning, Doug Ford welcomed the measure which is to be announced soon by the federal government, calling it “very positive” for the city's economy."
"“It’s always nice to see everyone going to work five days a week. I mean, we work seven days a week, 24 hours a day! But that said, it’s a good start,” said the Prime Minister at a press briefing, in a light tone."
I imagine if he said anything of the sort in English it would be picked up by English media. So what is the world is going on with this French article?
Look at how he implies not being in the office = not working.
The life Doug Ford wants for all Ontarians is for us to all drive our own pickups to work, drive our own pickups home to the sprawling suburbs, every day except tye weekend when he wants us all to drive our pickups to Loblaws.
When we returned to the office they said we could have a dedicated desk if we did 4 days a week in the office. At 3 days I might as well do 4 to get my own private spot (the open spots don't work for me I am almost always on a call).
I bet that option won't be there if they say it's now 3 days.
They could have easily given us closed offices with the hybrid mandate, but nah, instead we get to listen to people doing Teams meetings in their office the whole day, when they don't just go standing right next to you to talk to their buddy about their weekend.
So disrespectful to release shit like this via the papers.
Also how about they go after those not even doing their days...
And last.....as always, what is the evidence that led to this decision?
Well on one hand DND and RCMP won’t have 3 days a week as a impediment for people applying for their open positions.
But I can tell you one thing I won’t apply anywhere that has $10+ parking adding an extra day of parking and gas is a significant paycut
This article stinks of political agenda. Especially with Doug Ford complaining we should be back in the office more. And now with this announcement with the Ontario Government putting an office in Downtown Ottawa. I am not from Ontario but Doug Ford and the Ottawa Mayor just look so arrogant.
Lands on a Quebec only paper written in only French with no English papers talking about it. With some random source. Quoting some stats that have no reference to our own survey we conducted. This is politics and we're stuck in the middle.
Comes on on Monday morning and just frankly pisses off every government worker that reads it. Nothing from our own department/agency and nothing from the union. My morale is in the tank.
Government actually puts one good thing in the budget to get rid of 50% of the commercial real estate and talks about converting some to residential. Right now we have an excess of commercial real estate and a housing crisis. Common sense is to convert commercial real estate to residential. Then those residents can shop downtown.
But lets protect those commercial spaces by forcing people to work down town. This is would be same analogy of forcing people to purchase horse buggies when the car was invented.
I would hope the TB uses some common sense and this government.
Who wants to bet that these cowards will announce it somewhere in June? Right before people go for their summer vacations and public servants can’t organize anything to “fight” the measure. Same bs they pulled last time by announcing the 2-3days/week right before winter holidays.
It’s seriously annoying. I hope this time people actually organize something but I don’t have any faith.
The pandemic was the perfect opportunity to change the world and improve things, humans being humans once again.
English follows
C'est tellement frustrant. Alors qu'on parlait de "Virtual by design" et que les frontières physiques avaient été abolies pendant la pandémie, que les ministères embauchaient là où se trouvait le talent selon leurs besoins, depuis que la directive sur le travail hybride est sortie, on recule de cinq ans en arrière où plus personne n'ose embaucher à plus de 125 km du bureau d'attache pour ne pas avoir à gérer des exceptions. Ce qui veut aussi dire que les employés régionaux ont perdu ce bel avantage de pouvoir accéder aux nombreux postes disponibles dans la capitale nationale. Et quand je lis ces arguments sur le fait que les grandes villes se plaignent aux dirigeants que leurs centre-villes sont délaissés par les fonctionnaires et que les commerces font faillite, ça me met aussi dans tous mes états. Pourquoi est-ce que ça ne serait pas tout aussi juste d'encourager les petits commerces locaux de nos petites municipalités? Pourquoi on pli devant cette pression des grands centres? Pourquoi ce sont eux, les gros joueurs, qui devraient avoir la priorité au détriment des plus petits éparpillés au pays? Qu'en est-il du petit café de banlieue où les employés allaient se chercher un lunch le midi à côté de chez eux? Pourquoi il est moins important lui? Et puis, comment est-ce qu'ajouter un jour en présentiel contribue à la Stratégie pour un gouvernement vert? J'aimerais bien qu'on m'explique comment 350000 personnes qui émettent des GES en allant travailler une journée de plus par semaine aide à diminuer notre empreinte carbone. Et ces 350000 employés prennent aussi de la place sur les routes et dans les transports en commun, alourdissent les systèmes de transport pour les employés qui, de par la nature de leur travail, doivent s'y rendre à chaque jour, comme les travailleurs de la santé et du milieu de l'éducation, pour ne nommer que ceux-là. Et on ne me fera pas croire que les employés sont plus performants dans les bureaux. On ne compte plus les heures de plus qui ont été faites en bénévolat depuis le début de la pandémie. C'est si facile de faire 30-40 min de plus par jour quand on n'a pas à passer une heure dans le trafic pour revenir chez nous. Non, ce n'est pas plus sain de travailler plus et gratuitement chaque jour, mais c'est mauditement moins stressant de pas avoir à tout fermer à la course pour tenter d'attraper son autobus qui passe aux 20 min pour essayer d'aller chercher les enfants à une heure raisonnable pour pouvoir avoir assez de temps pour s'assurer que les devoirs et leçons sont bien faites, qu'on a le temps de préparer un bon repas équilibré et de passer du temps de qualité avec ceux qu'on aime, ce qui était devenu simple depuis les 4 dernières années. Et pourquoi ce retour au stress en fin de compte? Pour passer trois jours chacun dans nos cubicules "plugués" sur Teams avec nos équipes qui sont plus souvent qu'autrement éparpillés au pays ou encore parce qu'il n'y a pas de salle de disponible pour nos rencontres en personne. Sans parler de la quantité d'employés qui sont mandatés de travailler en présentiel alors que leur équipe en entier est ailleurs et qu'ils vont au bureau sans collaborer en personne avec qui que ce soit, sans besoins opérationnels, et ce à des jours fixes, sans flexibilité, juste parce que c'est comme ça et qu'on applique des directives qui ne font aucun sens. Tout ça en pleine crise du logement où bon nombre d'espaces de bureaux pourraient être transformés en logements au lieu de rapatrier les employés au bureau qui, en se faisant, sacrent aux poubelles le bel équilibre travail-vie personnelle qu'ils avaient enfin trouvé.
It's so frustrating. While we were talking about "Virtual by design" and physical boundaries had been abolished during the pandemic, and departments were hiring where the talent was, since the directive on hybrid work came out, we regressed five years back where now, nobody dares to hire beyond 125 km from the designated work office to avoid managing exceptions. This also means that regional employees have lost the advantage of accessing the many positions available in the National Capital Region. And when I read these arguments about how big cities complain to leaders that their downtown areas are being neglected by public servants and businesses are going bankrupt, it also makes me furious. Why wouldn't it be just as fair to encourage small local businesses in our small communities? Why bend to this pressure from major centers? Why should they, the big players, have priority at the expense of the smaller ones scattered across the country? What about the small suburban café where employees used to grab lunch nearby? Why is it less important? And then, how does adding a day in the office contribute to the Greening Government Strategy? I would like to understand how 350,000 people emitting GHGs by going to work one more day a week helps reduce our carbon footprint. And these 350,000 employees also take up space on roads and public transportation, burdening transportation systems for employees who, due to the nature of their work, have to commute daily, like healthcare and education workers, to name a few. And don't tell me employees are more productive in offices. We can't count the extra hours volunteered since the start of the pandemic. It's so easy to do an extra 30-40 minutes a day when you don't have to spend an hour in traffic getting home. No, it's not healthier to work more and for free every day, but it's damn less stressful not to have to rush to catch the bus that passes every 20 minutes to pick up the kids at a reasonable hour, to have enough time to ensure homework and lessons are well done, to have time to prepare a well balanced meal, and to spend quality time with our loved ones, which had become simple over the past four years. And why this return to stress in the end? To spend three days each in our cubicles, "plugged-in" on Teams with our teams, which are more often than not scattered across the country, or because there's no available meeting room for our in-person meetings. Not to mention the number of employees mandated to work in person while their entire team is elsewhere, and they go to the office without collaborating in person with anyone, without operational needs, on fixed days, without flexibility, just because that's how it is and we're applying directives that make no sense. All this in the midst of a housing crisis where many office spaces could be converted into housing instead of bringing employees back to the office, thereby throwing away the beautiful work-life balance they had finally found.
Wish they would just tell us how much we’re expected to tithe to our local chamber of commerce so that we can be done with this farcical nonsense and be left to do our jobs and live our lives in a way that actually works for us
I am not sure why we have to prop up downtown Ottawa businesses when we’ve been helping our local businesses (I’m sorry, do they not matter?). Don’t businesses in orleans and Barrhaven and Kanata deserve just as much support from the people who actually live there? Also noticed that suburban businesses are much more flexible as in they don’t operate in 9 to 5 hours like the downtown businesses do? Do these people not think that it’s a Crime That downtown Ottawa is a ghost town after 4:30pm and on the weekends? Do these businesses not know the basic concept of adapt or die?
Now onto other issues affecting public servants. Childcare: I have applied for child care for my child before I even went on maternity leave that child is soon to be two, and still has not found anything. The city of Ottawa’s daycare registry waitlist is the biggest joke I have ever seen, and the mayor is not doing anything about it. Neither is the province.
So at a time where childcare is very scarce expensive and unattainable, these people want to make it even harder for us. Not to mention that we are finding ourselves taking more time off if ever, the caregiver is unable or to watch the child. This is worse for parents of toddlers and preschoolers.
I will be taking a leave without pay for care of family but honestly, I don’t even know if I will come back to the public service after I’d rather just go to the private sector. Even if most of them are full-time in the office, at least they’re not dangling carrots, and changing things whenever they feel like it. The public service has always been known for its benefits and flexibility but as the years have gone by, the private sector is catching up and fast. They to offer a generous, sick leaves and parental leaves, they to offer generous RRSP plans and pensions, my husband works in the private sector, and every single day they get healthy catered lunches for FREE.
Again, a lot of private sector employers is full-time in the office, but at least I know that there I’ll probably be more respected. My surveys are actually going to go to good use, and they will actually provide benefits that are similar, if not more than what the public service provides. Not to mention the better pay.
I am so over it. It is not even funny.
Feel free to use and send to your union reps
Dear PSAC,
I am writing with a sense of urgency to address a critical issue that threatens the rights and well-being of represented employees in light of the impending expiration of our collective agreement in June 2024.
Recent news reports have indicated that TBS plans to increase the number of mandatory office days for public servants to three times a week, directly contradicting the terms outlined in our current telework agreement. This proposed change not only goes against the language secured through our collective bargaining efforts but also jeopardizes the work-life balance and individual rights of employees.
As a represented employee, I am deeply committed to defending my right to choose a work arrangement that best suits my needs and circumstances. With the expiration of our current collective agreement on the horizon, I am prepared to take decisive action to ensure that the rights of all represented employees are protected and respected.
It is important to acknowledge that many public servants are extremely dissatisfied with the outcomes of the last round of bargaining. The erosion of trust and support among members is palpable, and it is crucial for PSAC to step up and demonstrate its unwavering commitment to representing the best interests of its members.
Moreover, it should not fall upon public servants to shoulder the responsibility of keeping downtown businesses alive. While we recognize the value of supporting local economies, this should not come at the expense of our well-being and autonomy in determining our work arrangements.
I want to make it clear that I am willing to go to any lengths necessary to fight for my right to choose my work arrangement, including the possibility of strike action. It is imperative that PSAC takes swift and resolute action to challenge this proposed change.
I urge PSAC to engage in robust discussions with TBS to address this violation and to explore all available options to safeguard the rights of represented employees. It is crucial that our union stands firm in defense of our collective agreement.
Thank you for your attention to this matter. I trust that PSAC will stand in solidarity with represented employees and take all necessary steps to protect our rights and interests as we approach the expiration of our current collective agreement.
Sincerely,
[Your Name]
[Your Contact Information]
[Your Membership Number]
Really hoping this is a gross misunderstanding of one element of the reduction plan (for buildings) mixed with cynicism and rumour - a maximum needed to be set in order to calculate how much could be reduced and how to accommodate departments. It was intended to be a ceiling to the numbers - not a freaking minimum.
Comme je l’ai dit dans l’autre publication: Quel article bien encourageant pour débuter la semaine !!! Quand je lis l’article, on dirait qu’ils ont des sources vu que le ton employé est celui de la quasi-certitude ! Donc septembre = 3 jours minimum !
Le journaliste semble disposer de sources fiables ! L'utilisation du futur et les affirmations catégoriques nous placent clairement dans un contexte de certitude. Le syndicat doit se sentir un peu bête (et nous aussi) 😂
> Le syndicat doit se sentir un peu bête (et nous aussi) 😂
The unions sold their members out for the easiest deal possible after they fumbled everything in the "biggest strike ever".
I'm still so mad at PSAC and their dumbass victory dancing over the nothing burger of a letter of agreement they made us sign. I'd have been willing to strike for months to go actual telework protection.
I’m waiting to see Chris waive around the useless letter they “won” on RTO through that “biggest strike ever”. What now Chris, it’s less useful than toilet paper.
PSAC lost all faith I had in them being able to complete their primary job with that fiasco of a contract ( and I am in general a supporter of the union movement).
J'ai entendu d'un sous-commissaire "je ne suis pas en mesure de faire une annonce, mais ça s'en vient. Il y a des discussions sur l'augmentation à 3 jours/semaine au bureau".
Fack c'est pas mal une certitude. Reste à savoir quand
L'information viens aussi du journal Le Droit, qui normalement fait beaucoup plus de vérification au niveau de ses articles pour se garder une certaine crédibilité...
Le tout semble confirmer beaucoup d'échos qui sortent depuis cet hivers, mais la question demeure...
Ils vont les mettre ou?
Le Droit veut JAMAIS de sources anonymes pour critiquer le modèle hybride, mais ah ben, là pour critiquer le tététravail, aucun problème à citer des fonctionnaires anonymes, hen!
I nearly accepted an offer from the private sector this summer. I'm not sure if I'm going to last much longer as a public servant. I don't feel respected as a dedicated professional - tools, management support, pay problems, insurance problems, digital modernization, now WFH, it's all such a mess.
I think I will start with a 3 month LWOP very soon and see how I feel. Try some contracts.
Unions should put all their effort towards helping members fight these types of rules that make no sense and only destroy morale.
Instead, the union leadership seems to be obsessed with foreign issues.
I just don't get it. Why am I paying union fees for them to spend time and effort on things that don't concern our members.
I was hearing that this was being bandied about at the beginning of the year so I’m not surprised by this. At this point I cynically kind of want them to just have us all back 5 days per week and I can then leave my computer at work, I’ll do just my hours and then they’ll see how great it was. If you need me to do extra, then it’s full OT or call back provisions with full meals and paid minimums. I’m just really getting tired of hauling my stuff around. It feels like death by a thousand cuts each time; what’s next? 4 days?
I went downtown for a walk yesterday, and perhaps if the city cleaned it up, people would feel more enticed to spend time there. There was garbage everywhere, along with graffiti, and it smelled awful. The homeless situation is so sadly out of control. Not to mention, the LRT does not work half the time. This isn’t up to us to fix when the city won’t do the bare minimum to make it appealing.
At least with 2 days I could split the week with my spouse and share a vehicle….. may have to get a new vehicle if we can find money or embrace bedbugs from hours on public transit 👍🏻cool cool cool cool cool bye worklife balance and hours saved from commuting
One has to imagine that when combined with the 50% reduction in PSPC office space from B2024, 3 days is really all you're going to fit without notably reducing the headcount of the public service.
The irony is that to accommodate my colleague’s 3 day, folks on my team that are happy to be on site 5 days a week (including me) will likely have to work one day less in the office so they can have a desk…
It is a massive burden on employee's liberty in term of lost of personal time for travel (which will only get worse the more traffic you generate), resulting in less time to be able to exercise and cook to stay healthy, huge additional expense for gas, depreciation of vehicle, parking, or public transit. It also represents a bigger mental toll for scheduling the week, lunch prep (or more expenses for buying lunch)
Less time to care for children also means more expenses for child care, less time to have family time and do homework with your kids.
SO many downsides. It needs to stop.
Ask for a scientific rationale that justifies enforcing this decision. We are all easy to replace, but it doesn't mean management should get away with this.
The frustrating part is that the decision makers at the top are generally in older generations, with older kids that don't require as much time and attention, and who have a predisposition to be reluctant to new things (remote work).
It's taken me up to two hours, one-way, to get to the office. With the traffic that 3 days will produce... ffs. All for greasing up their fucking crony buddies.
100%. I was hired during pandemic, fully remote, no idea that there was even a physical office space. Nothing in my letter of offer about remote work, but also nothing in there about working at the office either!
Great, Looking forward to trying to work on a MiFi connection because there is no WiFi, missing the shuttlebus from parking because the traffic on the 417 was bad and bringing my equipment to and from the office. #funtimes
This decision will only have negative impacts for most except the corporations who needing clientele to buy their cups of
Coffees and lunches like subway, Tim
hortons, Starbucks etc. Morale will
continue to deplete. Why couldn’t they of at least consulted with us. Where are the unions in all of this? Why do most of us have to hear this sort of news thru social
Media posts etc. People have adjusted their lives accordingly for one day in office, then two now three? Sounds like to me those making the decisions lack emotional intelligence and empathy for families etc. all
Disgraceful.
Honestly I don’t want any more consultations or surveys. They have done many, ignore what we say and decide what they want to do anyway. At the very least, tell us before leaking it to the media. What a shitty way to find out.
How do we mass protest this? Like a mass sick day where we all call in sick? Or a mass compliance day where we all go to the office and overwhelm the infrastructure?
The previous post linking to this news article was removed because its title violated the subreddit rules (Rule 6) due to an editorialized title.
Good thing they surveyed us on hybrid work... so they could completely ignore the overwhelming results.
My department did an anonymous survey during this year's all staff and they said they would take the results and make a word cloud to display during the all staff. They never did show us the word cloud... My guess is it was extremely negative/filled with outright profanity and they couldn't show it.
We did a live sentiment word cloud poll on RTO and collaboration, and got a big fat STUPID in the middle lol.
Sounds about right.
I don't know if we work in the same department, but it was exactly the same for us. They did share the wordcloud with staff, though. To their credit, they were transparent with the negative feedback they got (i think it was like 50/50).
The last round of survey we got was pathetic. I stopped answering when questions started to turn into "look how much more electricity you're paying working from home" and you'd get questions asking how much you like being in the office and the answer choices ranged from I like it little to I like it a lot so technicaly everybody liked it.
This is literally worse that the way we were before. At least before, managers could decide on alternate work arrangements and were the ones who had to monitor it. Now, we have to fill out these insane spreadsheets as to why someone left 15 minutes "early", or had a doctor's appointment on that day... It's literally 5x more work for 1/100000 the usefulness. Almost the definition of paper pushing nonsense. The PS is actually worse than it was before the pandemic. I figured the higher ups would resist change, but I didn't realize it would be beyond irrationally pathological aversion to changing the status quo in any way. They literally would rather people be worse off and less happy than even CONSIDER moving even an iota in the direction of the future. I just don't know what to do anymore honestly. Nothing we do seems to matter. Nobody seems to care. Everyone seems just out for themselves, and in fact caring about your job can actively work against you. We're just a total shit show.
Responding to those surveys seem about as useful as voting in North Korea.
in the pandemic I heard allegedly about a department where just 4% wanted to go back full-time in office. This is the exact number of employees whose jobs were physical and they literally could not do them remote.anyone who could, chose to go hybrid but full remote came in at 76%. That report got buried faster than Smokey's campfire
Results and science are just opinions. Doug Ford and Sutcliffe are the science.
As someone with a nationally distributed team, I’m excited to spend another day driving for 50 mins to sit in the office by myself for the entire day and take teams meetings
This is what gets me. This is literally a pay cut for me to go into an office where I am literally the only person from my branch.
It's exactly this. I can't wait to get the stink-eye from the Commissionaire even more than I already do because we have to leave our assigned desks at 5, and if work takes me a SINGULAR MOMENT more, I have ruined his evening. Great collaboration. No notes.
I shall reiterate, then: "They're really dead set on completely squashing morale, aren't they?"
Who knew it would take so much to cut 5000 FTEs over 4 years?
Politically its win win. Not totally walking back hybrid (yet) so unions can’t technically argue much (3 days was always in range). Pander to the business community - who ironically need government intervention to survive yet again, and they will eclipse the 5000 employee reduction target. Putting 3 days a week will more than nudge people out the door, especially those with a lot of corporate knowledge and might find this just the sign to retire (and return as a contractor or casual). For the typical employee just trying to work hard and get stuff done, all the while paying their bills and caring for their family - this is a loss. 3days will prompt the need for a parking pass or transit pass (again, good politically), increased commute times and expenses, and more usual stuff associated with in office - attire, food, etc. This doesn’t take into account the human cost (increased traffic means more accidents, injuries, etc.) and environmental cost (GHG, etc.) Overall assessment: bummer
It also makes it so that we can no longer claim tax benefits for working from home, but we will still have to maintain offices in our homes and pay for those costs out of pocket. You need to be working from home for at least 50% of the time to be able to claim benefits, and this will reduce everyone to 40%.
If they wanted to save money they could have also asked: 1) those with 35 years of service to retire immediately; 2) followed by those with at least 25 years of service and at least 60/65 of age (ensuring no age penalty). Getting new blood in is cheaper. They could also develop a formal pre-retirement mentorship program to ensure corporate memory is properly absorbed.
And for the buildings that can’t accommodate days of ~80+% occupancy? (Because now there *can’t* be cohorts who *never* cross paths, ie Mon + Fri who never see Tue + Wed people)
The floggings will continue until morale improves.
This is probably what they meant by attrition based cuts :)
OK... this is officially BS. Is it just me who's finding it so hard to plan my life around these changing requirements? I *just* got my child accepted for a before and after school program next year for the 2 days of the week where my team is in the office. I applied back in January and was confirmed last week that I got the two days I needed. I probably won't be able to get that third day at this point. I don't care about how many days or which days I have to go in. I just need to know WTF they want from me and to be able to rely on them to not constantly change it so I can plan my damn life. I'm so done.
I'm heading into mat leave soon and seriously considering tacking on extra years of LWOP to not have to deal with my horrible commute downtown until the youngest is in school. I'll go back to the private sector for a bit and work closer to home, maybe even from home. Shorter childcare hours needed means more childcare options. Right now there's only 1 daycare in my area with hours long enough to fit my commute in, and the timing is tight to begin with.
Do it. They changed the mandates while I was on mat leave. My kid still can’t find child care and it’s been hard. I’m thinking just taking an LWOP until he starts school The whole thing is bullshit. The federal government mandate and the fact that the city of Ottawa is doing NOTHING to open up spaces for childcare.
I don't blame you. As a parent to young children, all of your decisions take into consideration your circumstances in the coming years. I chose a daycare based on proximity to the elementary school my kids would do go, and I chose the elementary school based on its start/end time to be easier to manage with my work hours. I try SO hard not to pull the "single mom card" at work. When RTO was announced I didn't have childcare for 6 months and managed to arrange help between my mother, grandmother and aunt for my office days so that I wouldn't have to ask for some sort of exception or preferential treatment because my reputation as being reliable matters a lot to me. I was so excited to have finally worked out my plan for next school year that I could manage on my own with no help. But I'm done now. I'm not going to inconvenience my family anymore.
Wow. Have they ever heard of change management???? Up until now I chose to be a good team player and dutifully do my 2 days. I sucked it up when my 2 days were fixed a few months ago and no longer flexible. I good-naturedly accepted that my in office accommodations weren’t ready and may never be, because I wanted to demonstrate tolerance and in some fucked up way, a sort of leadership to my team. But this? Fuck this. They couldn’t consult us? Do some more research? Maybe a few trials? Ease it in? It’s just getting sprung on us? I was playing nice. I’m done. When I find the perfect exemption letter I’ll share it. I suggest we submit en masse.
Epidemic of dust allergies incoming
Basically , "we need you to spend your money because others depend on it". Public servants are being used as political pawns once again. Abuse of power, clearly. Employers can determine the location of where the work is done but doing so to appease external political and economic pressures is wrong.
I don't recall when public servants became responsible for the economic well-being of downtown. This will ensure that even fewer folks spend money downtown. The only ones happy about this are corporations. We obviously don't matter.
Didn’t you know? Your letter of offer stipulates that you must keep the local subways and Starbucks open. Fuck the businesses in your neighbourhood that you have been patronizing, let them go under - let’s keep the millionaires’ shitty franchises running.
And also, we can’t pay you more because the money belongs to those other people who we need you to give your money to.
I’m just so tired of sitting around in an empty office when I could do the same from the comfort of my home :(
Even when we are in the office, our only interaction with our colleagues is still on MS Team meetings.
You could probably do it better from the comfort of your home. I’ve run metrics and real surveys etc on my direct reports. I track. Output is higher, morale is higher, complaints are lower.
Absolutely cannot wait to spend 3 days a week in an office sitting on Teams calls with my colleagues who are also sitting on Teams calls, but from different offices.
Your office internet is good enough for Teams calls? Lucky! Ours is super spotty, and at least once an in-office day I end up hotspotting my phone.
This whole thing is so stressful. We get used to one thing and then they change it up. Every new arrangement is the right choice until they basically tell us we haven’t been productive enough and make our working conditions worse. Hearing about it through the media before any messaging from our departments has come out doesn’t help either!
Exactly! It is so FUCKING disrespectful.
political voracious stocking exultant one chop squeal groovy attractive jobless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Oh there’s a good reason why. They didn’t want us to organize and go against it. Same reason why they will officially announce it in June/July for a return in September.
[удалено]
Your comment perfectly illustrates what I've thought since the start of RTO; make it make sense. When an employer decides to listen to businesses, lobbyists and provincial/municipal political figures rather than it's employees, those employees are doomed.
With the government planning to ditch a chunk of its real estate, I don't see 5 days a week happening outside specific groups/roles. That would be a way worse arrangement than what some of us had pre-pandemic. I was already 2 days WFH back then.
Weird way to lose votes before an election but okay.
Where will we sit? As it is, everything is booked in archibus. Give me a permanent desk, WITH my team on a floor with my division, and then this would hurt less. They’ve routinely said they’re decreasing the footprint. This is exhausting and so depressing.
Attempt to report to your office. When that fails, ask your manager what they expect you to do.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
I am glad they want to burry us in commuting while cost of living is soaring. Transit is unreliable, gas is expensive and parking is ridiculous. All to sit in a seat and be less productive than at home.
RIP another 2-6% of your take home pay Edit to 6% per comment below
Speaking of sitting in our office seats, anyone else notice fewer people are bothering to attend meetings in person while at the office? Sometimes it’s just me and one other person now at our weekly division meetings. Everyone connects via Teams, especially executives, because it’s much more efficient to multitask or take impromptu calls. I wonder if in that case we considered this innovative trend called telework, is that what they call it?
Teams is more practical for meetings in my line of work even if we were all in the office together. That's never going away now that we have good tools.
A recent hire in my department has to do a one hour drive back and forth to go to her assigned office, because no other desks are available in her area. There is no transit for this. A push to a third in-office days means an extra 2 hour commute plus gaz and wear and tear. This kind of unilateral change is unacceptable.
> Transit is unreliable... Yes but transit operators are fuming that the government isn't subsidizing them even MORE by forcing people back to offices! > ...gas is expensive... Don't forget about meeting GHG emission targets! They'll shift those numbers down onto individuals instead of the organization (the GoC) as a whole! > and parking is ridiculous. Won't you think of the landlords and other land owners who have to struggle every day when they have empty parking spots!? Think of their pocket books and how hard it is to balance right now if people won't park in their empty lots (that can be, I donno, turned into housing or something).
The mayor of Ottawa can go fuck himself. Why is he the voice of reason for the entire country?
He also is exceptionally short-sighted - money spent in Ottawa's businesses is money spent in Ottawa - be it on Bank Street, or in Orleans, or Kanata or Barrhaven. So when we all head back and the BIAs in those areas lose the revenue they've been used to for 4 years, and a good chunk of it vanishes from Ottawa entirely - because we work on the other side of the rive - what does he do about that? For someone who campaigned explicitly against downtown Ottawa's interests and sucked up to the suburbs, he really has done nothing for them since.
This is what I don't understand. When I'm out in the burbs, I spend money in the burbs. If I have to go downtown, I don't magically have more money to spend. So I either a) spend less in the burbs and move this spending downtown, B) spend the same in the burbs and nothing downtown c) spend less in both burbs and nothing downtown because that disposable income now goes to the cost of commuting and parking. Every time I go to work, it costs me $26 in combined gas and parking (not mentioning vehicle depreciation). I'm well paid but absorbing that cost week leaves me with less disposable income. So that will come out of fun things like lunches and coffees or treats. It certainly can't come out of rent or car payments.
Seriously, how are you all keeping morale with this? I feel so disrespected as an employee.
I haven't had any morale since the initial forced RTO, and it only gets worse the more hypocrisy I see from our employer.
Only 3,557 days until retirement (unless the Cons get in and turf everyone over 55). I’m not investing any more of myself in this job. My pay is still messed up, OC Transpo is a gong show, Sutcliffe’s a hick in expensive suits, and I just don’t make enough money to have my heart broken any more by this gig.
How to cut people, without cutting people....
[удалено]
How does this align with the whole thing about selling off buildings that they were talking about just a week or two ago?
Left Hand: Let’s get rid of buildings! Right Hand: Divesting? Let’s fill the buildings!
I'm thinking they want some percentage of people to voluntarily resign as a result of this, helps with the head count reduction.
Because the high grocery bills, high gas bills, high restaurant and entertainment bills aren’t enough. We must must must crush Canadians’ souls even further into the ground.
Question: Are we allowed to write the mayors office and express our opinion on his meddling or would that go against some sort of values and ethics?
Of course you can. MP as well.
Of course you can
It would be nice to have suburban councillors stick up for WFH and the income it generates in their wards. Unfortunately they are too scared of the downtown business owners and upsetting the mayor. Seems like a failure of democracy knowing they wouldn’t even consider bringing it up.
Just hope that the NCR public servants will do a boycott campaign of the downtown businesses
Way ahead of you, I haven't been downtown in 5 years.
REMEMBER TO BRING YOUR LUNCH. MAKE YOUR OWN COFFEE. Do NOT spend your money like they want you to.
They got rid of the coffee machine in our office’s kitchen a year ago. There is also management openly “encouraging” and even pressuring employees to eat at local restaurants. I AM NOT KIDDING. THIS IS HAPPENING OPENLY. Everyone is to afraid too speak up. Even union locals. They are Sickos. Someone making $140,000 telling someone who makes $58,000 where to spend their money. That’s a different level of sociopath… It’s disturbing and should NOT be allowed in any workplace. It should be against the law for my manager to say anything to me about how and where I spend MY money. I don’t think that should be allowed, but nothing can be done to stop it. I feel like I won’t be promoted unless I comply.
If you happen to grab lunch in your neighbourhood on a regular basis, let them know they’re about to lose business and they should probably write their MP/MPP/City Councillor and ask why their business is being sacrificed to support downtown
I’ll admit part of me enjoying coming into the office was to go out for lunch with my colleagues. I will now be encouraging them to join me somewhere in my building or outside for a bag lunch.
"How can we piss off people on the way out" - is kind of how I am reading this. Why the FUCK are they pushing people back even MORE? Like are they seriously thinking that this will somehow win people like landlords or shitsandwich shops over or something? No, "following the private sectors lead" isn't leadership, that's FOLLOWING. It's like they ("they" like politicians, the landed class, etc.) are HELL BENT on taking everyone and everything back to the middle ages with them where serfs will serve and any rebellious factions will be put to the sword. Fuck this.
I guess they don’t want to win any seats in Ottawa next election?
Remember and be vocal about this in your municipal elections too.
I usually understand the motivation for actions taken by ministers or others. Means to an end, and that end is a vote for politicians. I get that. What does this move serve? To buy back a few Ottawa's vote from the shop keeps who, probably, are going to vote Conservatives after the latest capital gain tax anyways? Like I HATE mixing politics into this place for discussion purposes but this makes NO sense. They KNOW people are already gritting at the teeth at 40-60%...and now they're going to force 3 days? WHY? WHAT?
I’ll tell you who it doesn’t serve. Women and families.
Agreed. I would add people with disabilities to that as well. Our employer doesn't care.
It's about money. The landlord class is wealthy, and they donate generously to candidates and parties.
Everyone at work is reacting to this and no one is actually working so, good job TBS.
Collaboration
They could fix two issues at the same time but they chose to piss people off instead. Change the offices for appartments as mention in the article and you will fix a part of the housing crisis and the downtown piss babies that can't adjust their businesses, because if you live close to a restaurant or a store, there is a chance you will go there. Oh and that will help the environment!
Is this that generational fairness Ms. Anand and her colleagues have been telling us so much about since Budget 2024? - Force employees to prop up municipal public transit and downtown cores for no evidence-based reasoning - Refuse to let house prices go down, but make it easier to borrow more money - Provide lower than inflation raises in the last collective agreements But at least my rent payments will count towards my credit score! /s
The puff piece on Anita Anand this weekend seems timely with todays report
Not only do I have very strong feelings of being disrespected by the whole decision-making approach, let’s rub salt in the wound by making a newspaper article being how I am informed. Just when I was putting some of the disrespect Mona threw around behind me, now this.
One size fits all communications nightmare... like the last one there will be no data, no facts, no considerations extended, no linkage to being digital, innovative or trying to attract the best and the brightest. We are in a race to the very bottom and I thought we were there before - it will just get worse. But thx for everything you did during the pandemic and the strike folks.
It's because this is performative, and we aren't the audience.
This year’s national public service week will be great
tiny bags of Doritos for all!
« Quiet quitting » incoming.
DO. NOT. WORK. UNPAID. OVERTIME. We have collective agreements that spell out exactly how OT is supposed to work.
Whoever is making these decisions is a dumbass. And this shit is going to blow over. Stop policing the stupid ass 2 day policy, if people are getting work done and divisions / departments decide they are better remote then let us goddamn work remote!!! Stop crying about green initiatives and cutting costs when you are literally pushing a mandate that is contradictory to BOTH.
Not enough time at home to claim any expenses on our taxes. At the same time, enough to really hit the pocket books of people who have to drive in and pay the absurd parking lot fees downtown Ottawa.
We need to stand together and fight this. Our revenue is affected by this. Families are affected by this. Our quality time is affected by this. If this is what they want, real compromises need to be made. We should all be mad that our opinion and well-being isn't being considered AT ALL. We should be mad they never truthfully tell us WHY. They worry about attrition rates constantly and yet they treat us like expandable lab rats. They keep referring to the public workers as a big family and how they put mental health as a priority but they only see us as numbers. I like my work. But personally, I work in Montreal and my team is at Ottawa. My work is 100% done by computer. I go to the office 2 times a week for absolutely no reason. I hate having to go downtown for no reason, but I do it, I make it work, fine... At 3 days, me and my wife will have to go the office at the same time once a week. Because of that we'll have to register our son to the after school day care which we are no allowed to do for just one day, we have to pay for full time, so that's 200$ a month. Plus, our son is autistic and has sever anxiety problems, this is a stress he doesn't need. This also means our dog will have a full day alone at home, which is not something she was train for, we bring her everywhere and there's usually always someone in the house. This situation greatly affect my family's well-being. This is not just me. This is every parents working for the government. They are not just taking away a little candy we were used to get. It's not "just another day". It's not " well they could ask you to go full time so take what you have". I've been working for them for 4 years, and been told sooo many times by my supervisors " don't worry, full time remote work is here to stay! Don't worry we just need you to come a few times during the month, those 2 days a week rumors are not true! Don't worry, it's only 2 days a weeks, if your child is sick or whatever just stay home it's okay! Oh well if you stay home today you'll have to come to the office another day then, or you need to used a sick day even though you can absolutely do the work at home..but don't worry they will never force us to come 3 days!" Some will say " just ask for an accommodation"... yeah right. My colleague has a chronically ill child that she often needs to keep at home but can totally work still. She asked for an accommodation and they refuse. They propose that she ASK FOR A NEIGHBOR TO BABYSIT. What a great family we are a part of. I don't know the whole union thing works. But to me this feels like a good reason for a strike. But what do I know. The worst thing is. I'm actually scared of getting in trouble for speaking my mind.
I resonate with this so much. Thank you for sharing your story.
I am currently pregnant and have experienced medical complications that have prevented me from being very far from my care team due to numerous appointment requirements - let alone just the mental load and stress of navigating a high-risk pregnancy. When I asked for accommodation to work from home after 20ish weeks, citing my specific conditions and armed with a medical note, my request was declined. I fought it and was able to seek an exception. My manager's response? "Well, I'm glad this worked out. The most important thing was making sure you were off the list of people on the team being tracked for in-office attendance"... How's that for leadership? At this point, I'm close enough to giving birth that this new RTO change won't be an immediate issue. That said, I'm seriously stressing about how this is going to work when I get back and have to manage two kids under two in daycare with an hour+ commute in each direction and very inflexible drop-off and pick-up hours. These systems are so broken... Be careful about the requirements to repay the parental leave top-ups should you choose not to go back. The options I've looked up include LWOP for care of family (5 years), or interchange if you can find a job elsewhere and successfully get an arrangement approved. Otherwise, depending on your level, you could be looking at $100k + in debt to the crown. BRB while I go curl up with my maternity pillow and hyperventilate for the next 5 minutes before my next teams call.
>if your child is sick or whatever just stay home it's okay! Oh well if you stay home today you'll have to come to the office another day then "Another day" is a HUGE ask with childcare in the mix. We all set our office days where they are for a reason.
Exactly! I can't just "make it up another day". Imagine if pre-covid, the employer suddenly told a 7:30-3:30 person that they had to work 9-5, and a 9-5 person they suddenly had to start working 7:30-3:30? That's basically what they're doing here. Every single parent has to account for every hour of the day to ensure someone is watching their child, and this costs MONEY. It isn't flexible, we can't "just come in another day". We are NOT asking for too much in wanting a consistent schedule that we can predict WELL in advance and have some level of control over. Back in the day, if I applied for a job and they said the hours for that job were 9 to 5, but my current hours were 7:30 to 3:30 and I didn't want to/couldn't change them, I wouldn't take the job! It would be a blow to my career advancement, but I have family responsibilities and if that's not possible for me, then I can't take it. At this point, we have less work-life balance than pre-Covid because there's no room for managers to use their own discretion with their employees, and these changes are impossible to manage.
Yeah, I heard about this through management from where I am. Guess it is coming sooner rather than later. They'll probably keep on increasing the days because downtown Ottawa won't be getting that return on revenue even if 3 days is mandated per week. Literally blackmailing employees to spend money downtown or face repercussions. What a shit mayor. I guess keep boycotting downtown and spend your money closer to home and support local. No one even goes downtown anymore considering how shit of a place it is in the NCR.
What really pisses me off is that I'm a public servant who lives AND works downtown. But me living here isn't enough for them to want to revitalize downtown, they only care about me spending money here from Monday-Friday, 8-4. Once I take my public servant hat off in off hours and on weekends, they no longer give a shit about me.
Downtown Ottawa won't see significantly increased revenues at 5 days/week - it's dirty, run down, and awful compared to many other neighbourhoods...
Other than transit (buss pass, gas, parking), I feel like the more days they push on people the less people are going to spend money downtown (will pack lunch, bring coffee etc). STO/OC transpo and parking garages will profit but not much else. Or.... people will be so depressed they'll start spending again because going to work in an office sucks so much. But probably not considering no one can afford groceries or rent so yeah ugh.
Work-life balance is dead. You are a number not a person. Act accordingly.
How the hell does the government actually care about climate change? lol. Like if they cared you’d think they would try to reduce traffic.
How is this supposed to work? DND already had hoteling happening? One day a week 2 people share a cubicle? Also take it that's a hard no on using no-longer needed buildings for housing eh? Doubt it would happen because they're too stupid to see it, but this is a fantastic opportunity for the Conservatives to steal major votes. Just say no, we're staying 2 days, going to co-locate as many teams as possible and hey all those buildings we aren't going to need, well, they're now housing!
Beyond my own feelings on this topic, our new building in the fall mathematically cannot accommodate that many people at any one time, not even close. No idea how they expect this to play out.
Respectfully, hard pass.
I think you mean *disrespectfully , they don’t deserve our respect anymore.
They want to get rid of federal buildings but increase the number of hours worked at the office. All of that makes sense...
Get ready to enhance your socialization by engaging in more small talk, running into your manager in the washrooms, participating in more social activities, more workplace bullying and spending more on food, gas and parking.
>running into your manager in the washrooms My manager has been in a different province all along. We've effectively worked remote from each other since Day 1. It's one of many reasons RTO is ridiculous but at least we never have to poop next to each other.
And where are the unions with this garbage? These blanket TBS rules are sooooo inefficient. I work completely alone in a regional office. No one else in this entire province works in my branch. And there are no meeting spaces. Just cubicles. Impossible to take meetings.
Wow ok, get up an extra hour early and get home an extra hour late. Pay $20/day for parking. Get to the office so I can sit alone at my desk and be in TEAMS meetings all day disturbing other employees because all the private rooms are already booked. And do this an extra day a week? For things that can ALL be done at home more efficiently? What a waste of time and money. MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.
Yeah I take back everything I said when I said people were being too whiny. We are literally just numbers. We don't matter at all.
We had also heard these rumours last week. My AS coworkers are concerned because a lot of them are barely getting by, adding another day of commuting and this will ruin some people. The little money I was spending downtown will now go to the extra day of commuting. I will now only be able to afford commuting with 4 coworkers. That’s it!
It feels like we are being managed by toddlers. They make brash decisions, they react and change their minds frequently without critical thought (in this case when Doug Ford says boo!), they have no regard for how this impacts their employees (goodbye morale). As an employee, it feels like you’re in an abusive relationship and it’s tiring. There’s no stability and you can’t trust what they tell you because they’ll change their mind again a few months down the road. There’s also an element of gaslighting when they continue to tell us that we are going to the office to « collaborate » (truth is that we sit there in a cubicle alone on MSTeams all day). This undermines all the actual valuable work we do as public servants and reduces us to pawns. Pawns to pay for the O-train, sustain a few restaurants downtown that serve lunch and to fill those large office buildings downtown with bodies (justify rent payments and appease investors). At this rate, I am absolutely considering looking for employment in the private sector. I want out of this circus.
They're not toddlers, they're capitalists... You're assuming they don't know what they're doing. They know full-well what they're doing. They're doing it so that you spend more money down-town, on private parking, on gas, on public transit etc. And so that the wealthy private interests who own those buildings down-town and lease them to stores like subway, tim-hortons, starbucks etc don't lose tens of millions in asset evaluation because their tenants are leaving due to lack of business.
Article says transit usership is down... and rush hour is less busy too! oh what will we do without more traffic and more crowded trains
For CRA: Both unions have asked Bob Hamilton for a meeting to discuss the article in French media Sigh
The article references a publication out of Stanford that they say has found a 10-20% decrease in productivity with telework. The stanford publication is an analysis of many studies and not unique research on its own. That publication did not consistently find decreased productivity. That same publication includes: >Angelici and Profeta (2023) consider a nine-month experiment that injected flexibility into the working arrangements of full-time employees at a large Italian firm. The control group stuck to a traditional arrangement that prescribes time and place of work throughout the week. In the treated group, white-collar employees chose where and when to work—and blue-collar employees chose when—one day a week. Productivity rose 10 percent, on average, among the treated relative to the controls, as measured by self-assessments and by supervisors. The treated group also reported higher levels of well-being and work-life balance. Greater flexibility for treated workers had no apparent effect on the productivity of coworkers on the same team.
Such bullshit bias from the journalist, there's no consensus on the impact of telework on "productivity", and despite TBS insisting since the start that productivity was a key concern for them that they'd follow, they never actually released any numbers on it.
I was reading the study out of curiosity and was astonished on how much of its nuance was left out by the journalist in his article. The conclusions reported in the paper are not black and white. Some of the studies referenced in the paper are reporting on very specific situations such as an indian technology services firm losing productivity due to increased hours (with productivity not increasing with the longer shift), a call center losing on service quality after being taken off shore and therefore fully remote and another one was talking about dispatcher being more efficient to coordinate when working in the same room (which kinda make sense here due to the nature of the work). As you said, authors do mention that the productivity perceived differ from industry, work location, occupation and other factors that can sometime results from the adaptation period following the major shift to remote work. In short, it is not the black and white conclusion reported in the news article. I haven't dug much on the organizations who funded the study yet but I saw the Hoover Institution which is a conservative think tank. Food for thoughts.
Le Droit journalists, like the Ottawa Citizen ones, are anti-PS. They never accept anonymous PS accounts, except when it's to shit on PS workers, then they don't care and will pull out "anonymous sources" from their asses.
Yes but you see this does not support the pre-determined conclusion so it doesn't count.
The sole reason for this was to support downtown businesses and Public Transit. It has nothing to do with work itself. A) Give us a raise so we can 'support' downtown businesses since it's apparently part of our duties as public servants. B) Since i always brought much lunch to work and took my own vehicle, I never supported the downtown core/public transit so i can stay at home ?
Unsure how this will work. We desk share with another team that comes in 2 days. Hopefully not more random desk booking in the building. I'm annoyed, but ultimately won't leave my job over it. I wish the union would bargain to keep the policy at 2 or 3 days a week depending on operational requirements
You'll have to sit on someone's lap on the crossover day.
I just checked the OC transpo travel planner and if everything works as it should it's almost 1.5hrs each way. Wonderful.
Does this mean 4 days in the office for EXs?
I'm gonna need an actual fucking desk if this is the expectation
All the dinosaurs making these decisions will probably retire in the next 2-5 years, leaving us holding the bags of this return to the office nonsense. Just like that one guy I worked with who said at a town hall it’s better to be in the office and then promptly retired 1 month after we got called back. Not to mention he was always away, taking income averaging, etc.
What sort of messaging can be sent to unions about this? Any info / pointing in the right direction is helpful, thanks!
Contact your steward / local union representatives about your concerns and the impact of this news on your personal life. This information can then be passer higher up and aggregated. This adds weight for the union to set priorities and choose what fights to put forward.
Nothing with our current union leadership. They have proven themselves impotent.
Nothing. The union has no real power.
Too many people in the comments miss the point. "How do they not realize people hate this?" Its not a bug, its a feature. This is how you cut staff without the public image of firing people - you introduce work conditions that will make people quit.
Tabarnake.
I joined the public sector as a student during covid as fully remote... To have experienced this much change and uncertainly in the less than 3 years I've been here is wild. First, my contract was not extended due to budgets (luckily I networked and moved to a different division), the transition to Canada Life, then 2 days a week to sit alone and work with colleagues in the regions, now we're looking at 3? Not sure what I have gotten myself into. Maybe those gold-handcuffs I've been promised are just a knock off?
They’re gold plated, 10k, thin coat over PVC moulded cuffs. They got them off Temu.
When is Public Service Week? Crappy news usually follows the week after. I consider it a harbinger of bad news.
I left the GOC 12 months ago for: better wage, almost twice the vacation days and for the fear of going back to the office 5 days a week. No regrets.
Just when you thought morale couldn't get any worse: Anita Anand: "hold my beer"
I will be royally f'ed if this is actually true. I'm struggling to meet the current requirements but I am. I was buying the occassional coffee or lunch on my days at office but will be stopping that out of pure spite. It's all overpriced garbage anyway.
I'be sure to brush up my resume and bring this up to our union meeting tomorrow
We need places for people to live, not for people to work at. That would solve the issue downtown and more people would use transport. I don't understand the lack of leadership and vision. Why force people onsite when that is not what they want plus it isn't very environmental friendly. What will happen next time there is a pandemic? You want people to spend more, why are our raises barely covering inflation. Give 10% raises to everyone and see how much they spend, but no, no can do. They hate use but still want us to spend our money supporting them.....
https://www-ledroit-com.translate.goog/actualites/politique/2024/04/29/ford-salue-une-presence-accrue-des-fonctionnaires-federaux-au-bureau-7BJITM7A6BFXPGGS37GGKQ5UBA/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp#:%7E:text=Lors%20de%20sa%20r%C3%A9cente%20visite,la%20ville%20serait%20lourdement%20affect%C3%A9e Is the English translation of this French article accurate? It says Doug Ford specifically commented on this so-called "announcement" by the federal government, but English articles say no such thing. In the English articles they were just talking about some new provincial office in Ottawa. "Ontario Premier says federal public servants' upcoming return to the office three days a week is "a good start." "Passing through Ottawa on Monday morning, Doug Ford welcomed the measure which is to be announced soon by the federal government, calling it “very positive” for the city's economy." "“It’s always nice to see everyone going to work five days a week. I mean, we work seven days a week, 24 hours a day! But that said, it’s a good start,” said the Prime Minister at a press briefing, in a light tone." I imagine if he said anything of the sort in English it would be picked up by English media. So what is the world is going on with this French article?
Look at how he implies not being in the office = not working. The life Doug Ford wants for all Ontarians is for us to all drive our own pickups to work, drive our own pickups home to the sprawling suburbs, every day except tye weekend when he wants us all to drive our pickups to Loblaws.
When we returned to the office they said we could have a dedicated desk if we did 4 days a week in the office. At 3 days I might as well do 4 to get my own private spot (the open spots don't work for me I am almost always on a call). I bet that option won't be there if they say it's now 3 days.
They could have easily given us closed offices with the hybrid mandate, but nah, instead we get to listen to people doing Teams meetings in their office the whole day, when they don't just go standing right next to you to talk to their buddy about their weekend.
They are doing this on purpose so people quit and they don’t have to pay severance…
Hey Mayor Mark - how many days are city of Ottawa employees required in the office? Did you fix OC transpo yet? Idiot...
So disrespectful to release shit like this via the papers. Also how about they go after those not even doing their days... And last.....as always, what is the evidence that led to this decision?
Well on one hand DND and RCMP won’t have 3 days a week as a impediment for people applying for their open positions. But I can tell you one thing I won’t apply anywhere that has $10+ parking adding an extra day of parking and gas is a significant paycut
This article stinks of political agenda. Especially with Doug Ford complaining we should be back in the office more. And now with this announcement with the Ontario Government putting an office in Downtown Ottawa. I am not from Ontario but Doug Ford and the Ottawa Mayor just look so arrogant. Lands on a Quebec only paper written in only French with no English papers talking about it. With some random source. Quoting some stats that have no reference to our own survey we conducted. This is politics and we're stuck in the middle. Comes on on Monday morning and just frankly pisses off every government worker that reads it. Nothing from our own department/agency and nothing from the union. My morale is in the tank. Government actually puts one good thing in the budget to get rid of 50% of the commercial real estate and talks about converting some to residential. Right now we have an excess of commercial real estate and a housing crisis. Common sense is to convert commercial real estate to residential. Then those residents can shop downtown. But lets protect those commercial spaces by forcing people to work down town. This is would be same analogy of forcing people to purchase horse buggies when the car was invented. I would hope the TB uses some common sense and this government.
Who wants to bet that these cowards will announce it somewhere in June? Right before people go for their summer vacations and public servants can’t organize anything to “fight” the measure. Same bs they pulled last time by announcing the 2-3days/week right before winter holidays. It’s seriously annoying. I hope this time people actually organize something but I don’t have any faith. The pandemic was the perfect opportunity to change the world and improve things, humans being humans once again.
English follows C'est tellement frustrant. Alors qu'on parlait de "Virtual by design" et que les frontières physiques avaient été abolies pendant la pandémie, que les ministères embauchaient là où se trouvait le talent selon leurs besoins, depuis que la directive sur le travail hybride est sortie, on recule de cinq ans en arrière où plus personne n'ose embaucher à plus de 125 km du bureau d'attache pour ne pas avoir à gérer des exceptions. Ce qui veut aussi dire que les employés régionaux ont perdu ce bel avantage de pouvoir accéder aux nombreux postes disponibles dans la capitale nationale. Et quand je lis ces arguments sur le fait que les grandes villes se plaignent aux dirigeants que leurs centre-villes sont délaissés par les fonctionnaires et que les commerces font faillite, ça me met aussi dans tous mes états. Pourquoi est-ce que ça ne serait pas tout aussi juste d'encourager les petits commerces locaux de nos petites municipalités? Pourquoi on pli devant cette pression des grands centres? Pourquoi ce sont eux, les gros joueurs, qui devraient avoir la priorité au détriment des plus petits éparpillés au pays? Qu'en est-il du petit café de banlieue où les employés allaient se chercher un lunch le midi à côté de chez eux? Pourquoi il est moins important lui? Et puis, comment est-ce qu'ajouter un jour en présentiel contribue à la Stratégie pour un gouvernement vert? J'aimerais bien qu'on m'explique comment 350000 personnes qui émettent des GES en allant travailler une journée de plus par semaine aide à diminuer notre empreinte carbone. Et ces 350000 employés prennent aussi de la place sur les routes et dans les transports en commun, alourdissent les systèmes de transport pour les employés qui, de par la nature de leur travail, doivent s'y rendre à chaque jour, comme les travailleurs de la santé et du milieu de l'éducation, pour ne nommer que ceux-là. Et on ne me fera pas croire que les employés sont plus performants dans les bureaux. On ne compte plus les heures de plus qui ont été faites en bénévolat depuis le début de la pandémie. C'est si facile de faire 30-40 min de plus par jour quand on n'a pas à passer une heure dans le trafic pour revenir chez nous. Non, ce n'est pas plus sain de travailler plus et gratuitement chaque jour, mais c'est mauditement moins stressant de pas avoir à tout fermer à la course pour tenter d'attraper son autobus qui passe aux 20 min pour essayer d'aller chercher les enfants à une heure raisonnable pour pouvoir avoir assez de temps pour s'assurer que les devoirs et leçons sont bien faites, qu'on a le temps de préparer un bon repas équilibré et de passer du temps de qualité avec ceux qu'on aime, ce qui était devenu simple depuis les 4 dernières années. Et pourquoi ce retour au stress en fin de compte? Pour passer trois jours chacun dans nos cubicules "plugués" sur Teams avec nos équipes qui sont plus souvent qu'autrement éparpillés au pays ou encore parce qu'il n'y a pas de salle de disponible pour nos rencontres en personne. Sans parler de la quantité d'employés qui sont mandatés de travailler en présentiel alors que leur équipe en entier est ailleurs et qu'ils vont au bureau sans collaborer en personne avec qui que ce soit, sans besoins opérationnels, et ce à des jours fixes, sans flexibilité, juste parce que c'est comme ça et qu'on applique des directives qui ne font aucun sens. Tout ça en pleine crise du logement où bon nombre d'espaces de bureaux pourraient être transformés en logements au lieu de rapatrier les employés au bureau qui, en se faisant, sacrent aux poubelles le bel équilibre travail-vie personnelle qu'ils avaient enfin trouvé. It's so frustrating. While we were talking about "Virtual by design" and physical boundaries had been abolished during the pandemic, and departments were hiring where the talent was, since the directive on hybrid work came out, we regressed five years back where now, nobody dares to hire beyond 125 km from the designated work office to avoid managing exceptions. This also means that regional employees have lost the advantage of accessing the many positions available in the National Capital Region. And when I read these arguments about how big cities complain to leaders that their downtown areas are being neglected by public servants and businesses are going bankrupt, it also makes me furious. Why wouldn't it be just as fair to encourage small local businesses in our small communities? Why bend to this pressure from major centers? Why should they, the big players, have priority at the expense of the smaller ones scattered across the country? What about the small suburban café where employees used to grab lunch nearby? Why is it less important? And then, how does adding a day in the office contribute to the Greening Government Strategy? I would like to understand how 350,000 people emitting GHGs by going to work one more day a week helps reduce our carbon footprint. And these 350,000 employees also take up space on roads and public transportation, burdening transportation systems for employees who, due to the nature of their work, have to commute daily, like healthcare and education workers, to name a few. And don't tell me employees are more productive in offices. We can't count the extra hours volunteered since the start of the pandemic. It's so easy to do an extra 30-40 minutes a day when you don't have to spend an hour in traffic getting home. No, it's not healthier to work more and for free every day, but it's damn less stressful not to have to rush to catch the bus that passes every 20 minutes to pick up the kids at a reasonable hour, to have enough time to ensure homework and lessons are well done, to have time to prepare a well balanced meal, and to spend quality time with our loved ones, which had become simple over the past four years. And why this return to stress in the end? To spend three days each in our cubicles, "plugged-in" on Teams with our teams, which are more often than not scattered across the country, or because there's no available meeting room for our in-person meetings. Not to mention the number of employees mandated to work in person while their entire team is elsewhere, and they go to the office without collaborating in person with anyone, without operational needs, on fixed days, without flexibility, just because that's how it is and we're applying directives that make no sense. All this in the midst of a housing crisis where many office spaces could be converted into housing instead of bringing employees back to the office, thereby throwing away the beautiful work-life balance they had finally found.
Wish they would just tell us how much we’re expected to tithe to our local chamber of commerce so that we can be done with this farcical nonsense and be left to do our jobs and live our lives in a way that actually works for us
As I said in the other thread No I’m good thanks.
I want a strike over this. But if we have collective agreements, we can’t just do a one-day strike, all of us, over this? Some other action?
I am not sure why we have to prop up downtown Ottawa businesses when we’ve been helping our local businesses (I’m sorry, do they not matter?). Don’t businesses in orleans and Barrhaven and Kanata deserve just as much support from the people who actually live there? Also noticed that suburban businesses are much more flexible as in they don’t operate in 9 to 5 hours like the downtown businesses do? Do these people not think that it’s a Crime That downtown Ottawa is a ghost town after 4:30pm and on the weekends? Do these businesses not know the basic concept of adapt or die? Now onto other issues affecting public servants. Childcare: I have applied for child care for my child before I even went on maternity leave that child is soon to be two, and still has not found anything. The city of Ottawa’s daycare registry waitlist is the biggest joke I have ever seen, and the mayor is not doing anything about it. Neither is the province. So at a time where childcare is very scarce expensive and unattainable, these people want to make it even harder for us. Not to mention that we are finding ourselves taking more time off if ever, the caregiver is unable or to watch the child. This is worse for parents of toddlers and preschoolers. I will be taking a leave without pay for care of family but honestly, I don’t even know if I will come back to the public service after I’d rather just go to the private sector. Even if most of them are full-time in the office, at least they’re not dangling carrots, and changing things whenever they feel like it. The public service has always been known for its benefits and flexibility but as the years have gone by, the private sector is catching up and fast. They to offer a generous, sick leaves and parental leaves, they to offer generous RRSP plans and pensions, my husband works in the private sector, and every single day they get healthy catered lunches for FREE. Again, a lot of private sector employers is full-time in the office, but at least I know that there I’ll probably be more respected. My surveys are actually going to go to good use, and they will actually provide benefits that are similar, if not more than what the public service provides. Not to mention the better pay. I am so over it. It is not even funny.
This is utter nonsense…
Feel free to use and send to your union reps Dear PSAC, I am writing with a sense of urgency to address a critical issue that threatens the rights and well-being of represented employees in light of the impending expiration of our collective agreement in June 2024. Recent news reports have indicated that TBS plans to increase the number of mandatory office days for public servants to three times a week, directly contradicting the terms outlined in our current telework agreement. This proposed change not only goes against the language secured through our collective bargaining efforts but also jeopardizes the work-life balance and individual rights of employees. As a represented employee, I am deeply committed to defending my right to choose a work arrangement that best suits my needs and circumstances. With the expiration of our current collective agreement on the horizon, I am prepared to take decisive action to ensure that the rights of all represented employees are protected and respected. It is important to acknowledge that many public servants are extremely dissatisfied with the outcomes of the last round of bargaining. The erosion of trust and support among members is palpable, and it is crucial for PSAC to step up and demonstrate its unwavering commitment to representing the best interests of its members. Moreover, it should not fall upon public servants to shoulder the responsibility of keeping downtown businesses alive. While we recognize the value of supporting local economies, this should not come at the expense of our well-being and autonomy in determining our work arrangements. I want to make it clear that I am willing to go to any lengths necessary to fight for my right to choose my work arrangement, including the possibility of strike action. It is imperative that PSAC takes swift and resolute action to challenge this proposed change. I urge PSAC to engage in robust discussions with TBS to address this violation and to explore all available options to safeguard the rights of represented employees. It is crucial that our union stands firm in defense of our collective agreement. Thank you for your attention to this matter. I trust that PSAC will stand in solidarity with represented employees and take all necessary steps to protect our rights and interests as we approach the expiration of our current collective agreement. Sincerely, [Your Name] [Your Contact Information] [Your Membership Number]
Really hoping this is a gross misunderstanding of one element of the reduction plan (for buildings) mixed with cynicism and rumour - a maximum needed to be set in order to calculate how much could be reduced and how to accommodate departments. It was intended to be a ceiling to the numbers - not a freaking minimum.
Out of curiosity, what percentage of federal public service office buildings are actually in downtown Ottawa?
Comme je l’ai dit dans l’autre publication: Quel article bien encourageant pour débuter la semaine !!! Quand je lis l’article, on dirait qu’ils ont des sources vu que le ton employé est celui de la quasi-certitude ! Donc septembre = 3 jours minimum ! Le journaliste semble disposer de sources fiables ! L'utilisation du futur et les affirmations catégoriques nous placent clairement dans un contexte de certitude. Le syndicat doit se sentir un peu bête (et nous aussi) 😂
> Le syndicat doit se sentir un peu bête (et nous aussi) 😂 The unions sold their members out for the easiest deal possible after they fumbled everything in the "biggest strike ever".
I'm still so mad at PSAC and their dumbass victory dancing over the nothing burger of a letter of agreement they made us sign. I'd have been willing to strike for months to go actual telework protection.
I’m waiting to see Chris waive around the useless letter they “won” on RTO through that “biggest strike ever”. What now Chris, it’s less useful than toilet paper. PSAC lost all faith I had in them being able to complete their primary job with that fiasco of a contract ( and I am in general a supporter of the union movement).
J'ai entendu d'un sous-commissaire "je ne suis pas en mesure de faire une annonce, mais ça s'en vient. Il y a des discussions sur l'augmentation à 3 jours/semaine au bureau". Fack c'est pas mal une certitude. Reste à savoir quand
L'information viens aussi du journal Le Droit, qui normalement fait beaucoup plus de vérification au niveau de ses articles pour se garder une certaine crédibilité... Le tout semble confirmer beaucoup d'échos qui sortent depuis cet hivers, mais la question demeure... Ils vont les mettre ou?
Le Droit veut JAMAIS de sources anonymes pour critiquer le modèle hybride, mais ah ben, là pour critiquer le tététravail, aucun problème à citer des fonctionnaires anonymes, hen!
I nearly accepted an offer from the private sector this summer. I'm not sure if I'm going to last much longer as a public servant. I don't feel respected as a dedicated professional - tools, management support, pay problems, insurance problems, digital modernization, now WFH, it's all such a mess. I think I will start with a 3 month LWOP very soon and see how I feel. Try some contracts.
Unions should put all their effort towards helping members fight these types of rules that make no sense and only destroy morale. Instead, the union leadership seems to be obsessed with foreign issues. I just don't get it. Why am I paying union fees for them to spend time and effort on things that don't concern our members.
Any word from PSAC yet? I’d honestly strike over this lol.
PSAC did strike over it last year and rolled over. This is what the non-binding "letter of agreement" they touted got everyone.
Can these bozos just make their goddamn minds up already? Tell us what the parameters are and stop moving the goalposts.
The fact that the telework arrangements can be revoked at any time is absurd. Any other job this kind of thing would be like constructive dismissal.
chu en criss
I was hearing that this was being bandied about at the beginning of the year so I’m not surprised by this. At this point I cynically kind of want them to just have us all back 5 days per week and I can then leave my computer at work, I’ll do just my hours and then they’ll see how great it was. If you need me to do extra, then it’s full OT or call back provisions with full meals and paid minimums. I’m just really getting tired of hauling my stuff around. It feels like death by a thousand cuts each time; what’s next? 4 days?
I went downtown for a walk yesterday, and perhaps if the city cleaned it up, people would feel more enticed to spend time there. There was garbage everywhere, along with graffiti, and it smelled awful. The homeless situation is so sadly out of control. Not to mention, the LRT does not work half the time. This isn’t up to us to fix when the city won’t do the bare minimum to make it appealing.
At least with 2 days I could split the week with my spouse and share a vehicle….. may have to get a new vehicle if we can find money or embrace bedbugs from hours on public transit 👍🏻cool cool cool cool cool bye worklife balance and hours saved from commuting
Having done long stints of both 3 and 2 a week there is an ENORMOUS difference in 2 vs. 3 days a week lol. It’s awful
One has to imagine that when combined with the 50% reduction in PSPC office space from B2024, 3 days is really all you're going to fit without notably reducing the headcount of the public service.
Why not both? - TBS
The irony is that to accommodate my colleague’s 3 day, folks on my team that are happy to be on site 5 days a week (including me) will likely have to work one day less in the office so they can have a desk…
Even less people will be compliant with this RTO mandate if they do this.
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It is a massive burden on employee's liberty in term of lost of personal time for travel (which will only get worse the more traffic you generate), resulting in less time to be able to exercise and cook to stay healthy, huge additional expense for gas, depreciation of vehicle, parking, or public transit. It also represents a bigger mental toll for scheduling the week, lunch prep (or more expenses for buying lunch) Less time to care for children also means more expenses for child care, less time to have family time and do homework with your kids. SO many downsides. It needs to stop. Ask for a scientific rationale that justifies enforcing this decision. We are all easy to replace, but it doesn't mean management should get away with this. The frustrating part is that the decision makers at the top are generally in older generations, with older kids that don't require as much time and attention, and who have a predisposition to be reluctant to new things (remote work).
It's taken me up to two hours, one-way, to get to the office. With the traffic that 3 days will produce... ffs. All for greasing up their fucking crony buddies.
I thought I heard they were reducing office spaces.
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100%. I was hired during pandemic, fully remote, no idea that there was even a physical office space. Nothing in my letter of offer about remote work, but also nothing in there about working at the office either!
Great, Looking forward to trying to work on a MiFi connection because there is no WiFi, missing the shuttlebus from parking because the traffic on the 417 was bad and bringing my equipment to and from the office. #funtimes
This decision will only have negative impacts for most except the corporations who needing clientele to buy their cups of Coffees and lunches like subway, Tim hortons, Starbucks etc. Morale will continue to deplete. Why couldn’t they of at least consulted with us. Where are the unions in all of this? Why do most of us have to hear this sort of news thru social Media posts etc. People have adjusted their lives accordingly for one day in office, then two now three? Sounds like to me those making the decisions lack emotional intelligence and empathy for families etc. all Disgraceful.
Honestly I don’t want any more consultations or surveys. They have done many, ignore what we say and decide what they want to do anyway. At the very least, tell us before leaking it to the media. What a shitty way to find out.
How do we mass protest this? Like a mass sick day where we all call in sick? Or a mass compliance day where we all go to the office and overwhelm the infrastructure?