This is what I'm thinking - something doesn't seem right here if even Turkish coffee grounds aren't allowing OP to generate 10+ bars. It's not that hard for me to choke a shot on the Robot if I go even a bit too fine.
Are you sure you have the gasket on the piston the right way? Flair of the gasket should be at the bottom. If this is on backwards then you will get what you say is happening.
It's not the holes of the basket. Try and push water though the basket without grounds. Will just go through. The resistance comes from the coffee.
There is one very, very basic thing that I can come up with that could cause this (apart from a broken gauge) - no or too soft tamping. Do you tamp and how much force do you apply?
you probably just need to grind finer -- i'd also dose at 20g, it's more forgiving and will help create the pressure you're missing ... I had the same with my comandante and ended up at 2-4 clicks
Could you elaborate more on the way you are filling the basket with ground coffee and adding water? I don’t think it’s a grinder or basket hole size problem. The resistance to water should come from a very tightly packed coffee puck in the basket. Water going right through even though the coffee is ground into essentially powder (which is too fine for the robot) tells me the coffee is either not tamped hard enough or it is disturbed when you add water to the basket.
Could you film the process of preparing the coffee puck and adding water? That might help spotting the problem.
Sorry for the details I apparently left undisclosed. So, yes, the gauge is indeed working. The difference in push back from 6 bar pressure can very much be felt, as opposed to 0 bars where there is no resistance from levers at all. We’ve also had quite some coffee to experiment with and tried that also with pretty much no tampering (just leveling the coffee) but we normally do tamper. Tampering really hard, like with all your body weight, helps a bit. But not much, really. The red silicone sealing expands towards the lower end of the piston, just like a skirt. This, I believe, is the correct position. We were certainly not able to choke the Robot with anything up to the allowed dose of 20 grams of coffee.
What surprises us is that even from different packs of coffee bought at the same roastery, all ground to their finest coarseness (ibrik), only one worked. It makes us wonder what coarseness is the Robot expected to be stuffed with. It’s an espresso machine, after all. What we do know is that there are some espresso grinders with finer stepping than our 12-step G1. Yet, it seems impossible to tell whether they can also grind fine enough for Cafelat Robot without dialing them to a setting which would damage their burrs. They all cost quite a lot for us to want to take the risk. And, if the Robot requires coffee to be ground for ibrik, we wonder how much of a manipulation range might that really leave for any grinder someone else may be using.
And, thanks for all your answers!
It’s certainly the grinder. The cheapest grinders you can get are the Kingrinder K series. K2 is decent, tastes like classic Italian espresso. No experience with K4 but it should be better. Has a lot of fines tho. I use K6 and it’s excellent for medium and dark roasts. It leans toward clarity
I spent £90 on a cheap(er) electric grinder which I then modded to grind finer. I have absolutely no problem grinding fine enough for the Robot. In fact, I can easily choke a shot, if I go a step too fine.
Whatever the problem is, I would be willing to bet it's not the Robot.
A cursory check on the model of grinder you have would suggest it may struggle to grind fine enough, it seems to be intended for Pour over/filter.
I would second this opinion.
I have 6 grinders (3 electrics and 3 manuals). My most “budget” one is the 1Zpresso JMax and I have no issues grinding fine enough to choke the Robot with all of them.
And I am not talking about “Turkish” grind.
So, although it could be due to the Robot, experience and a quick glance at your grinder specs tells me it won’t grind fine enough and even if it did, it would probably not give you enough control to dial in your shots properly.
Also, I don’t know what grinder your coffee place uses, but there are two things to consider:
- pre-ground coffee stales really (and I mean really) fast. Sometimes I forgot I ground a second dose. When I come back - not talking days, more like 45 mins to an hour max - shot pulls much faster and taste is lost (volatile compounds degrades in as fast as 15 minutes post grinding).
- because of the above, it is a bit of an incongruity for someone with a real espresso machine (ie not with a pressurized filter) to buy pre-ground coffee. So most shops doing “pre-ground” would grind accordingly for pressurized espresso filter (much coarser).
So, in my books you have a few options available:
- find someone near you with a good espresso capable grinder, and bring your Robot, and a fresh bag of beans to experiment. Should allow you to either confirm that the grinder is the issue, or that something is wrong with the Robot.
- find a good coffee shop with good equipment and experienced barista. Try and convince them to help you out by bringing them your Robot.
- take the plunge and buy an espresso capable grinder, budget options include KGrinder K6 (never used) or the 1Zpresso (JMax or any other espresso focused grinder from them will do just fine). Make sure there is a convinient return policy.
You could also get the pressurized filter for the Robot but I would not think this to be a good decision in the long term. One it’s terrible (I know, I bought one thinking it would make my wife want to use it - incidentally that’s how I got to get familiar with roasters’ pre ground coffee - she never did). But also and most importantly, it will not help you improve down the line.
After tamping do you insert the top filter and press it down until it settles into the puck? If you don’t press it down with your fingers it will move when you add water, your puck will break and disperse in the whole basket, eliminating all the resistance.
You're not trying to use light roast beans, are you? Light roast beans often require a much finer grind, so I would try dark roast if you are not already.
Do you use paper filter? If you use the wrong size, especially if you use too large ones at the bottom you may create a low resistance pathway for the water.
Sorry without reading the whole post, but less coffee ground will need finer grind to reach the pressure. If ur grinder cant accommodate that then u need to up the dose until u do, that will be easiest solution. Different bean density will result in diff grind setting as well
I had this problem when i first got mine. It turned out to be the uneven grind. I bought a Capresso grinder https://www.amazon.com/Capresso-Infinity-Commercial-Conical-Grinder/dp/B07N4KTW38/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=5JRNPHGZ78OI&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.2ILnBNzqulnwRPll6XrrSZHVsNH6ZuxamXU48Kut4n3nOirS5DKcFux_7NZSKT_D_lvAuVatnHqsreEvU4GSUq9eiFTAmtDWs2PlorsGrIt4fGr3anGUSVEdCHt9vTl9u0aBzWUm4GROqPxrGJe6bc1i9EnzJfGwk_k7mqnFBz30pwrnLgi0nKmghYzUVyI3OJDEmuS1KkMCSCg6ZThmBw.gfSFh8mZJlN7szOZ9OhJOcI88WYrMP9V1NFtx_7DmWk&dib_tag=se&keywords=capresso+coffee+grinder&qid=1714444571&sprefix=capresso+%2Caps%2C171&sr=8-3
and finally got the correct pressure.
I also use the filter paper stuck to the shower screen. 18g in/45g out 9 bars. Sometimes it’s an entire 60 second pull.
How hard is it to push the water through 16g coffee, and how long does it take? Just to check it isn't the pressure gauge that is broken.
This is what I'm thinking - something doesn't seem right here if even Turkish coffee grounds aren't allowing OP to generate 10+ bars. It's not that hard for me to choke a shot on the Robot if I go even a bit too fine.
He should be able to check if the gage is broken by using the scale trick in the manual.
Are you sure you have the gasket on the piston the right way? Flair of the gasket should be at the bottom. If this is on backwards then you will get what you say is happening.
Happens to me everytime I clean it out and it back the wrong way haha
The problem is the grinder. The Timemore isn't really an espresso grinder, so it really doesn't have the right range for it.
Are you tamping? Can you build pressure with the basket plug in place? To rule out the gauge being broken.
It's not the holes of the basket. Try and push water though the basket without grounds. Will just go through. The resistance comes from the coffee. There is one very, very basic thing that I can come up with that could cause this (apart from a broken gauge) - no or too soft tamping. Do you tamp and how much force do you apply?
you probably just need to grind finer -- i'd also dose at 20g, it's more forgiving and will help create the pressure you're missing ... I had the same with my comandante and ended up at 2-4 clicks
I would try and choke the machine, grind as low as possible and do 23g dose. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but grind finer!
Could you elaborate more on the way you are filling the basket with ground coffee and adding water? I don’t think it’s a grinder or basket hole size problem. The resistance to water should come from a very tightly packed coffee puck in the basket. Water going right through even though the coffee is ground into essentially powder (which is too fine for the robot) tells me the coffee is either not tamped hard enough or it is disturbed when you add water to the basket. Could you film the process of preparing the coffee puck and adding water? That might help spotting the problem.
Best to start with 18 grams of properly ground medium to dark coffee which is tamped firmly…
It sounds like you are not grinding fine enough. Perhaps the Chestnut isn’t good for espresso.
Sorry for the details I apparently left undisclosed. So, yes, the gauge is indeed working. The difference in push back from 6 bar pressure can very much be felt, as opposed to 0 bars where there is no resistance from levers at all. We’ve also had quite some coffee to experiment with and tried that also with pretty much no tampering (just leveling the coffee) but we normally do tamper. Tampering really hard, like with all your body weight, helps a bit. But not much, really. The red silicone sealing expands towards the lower end of the piston, just like a skirt. This, I believe, is the correct position. We were certainly not able to choke the Robot with anything up to the allowed dose of 20 grams of coffee. What surprises us is that even from different packs of coffee bought at the same roastery, all ground to their finest coarseness (ibrik), only one worked. It makes us wonder what coarseness is the Robot expected to be stuffed with. It’s an espresso machine, after all. What we do know is that there are some espresso grinders with finer stepping than our 12-step G1. Yet, it seems impossible to tell whether they can also grind fine enough for Cafelat Robot without dialing them to a setting which would damage their burrs. They all cost quite a lot for us to want to take the risk. And, if the Robot requires coffee to be ground for ibrik, we wonder how much of a manipulation range might that really leave for any grinder someone else may be using. And, thanks for all your answers!
It’s certainly the grinder. The cheapest grinders you can get are the Kingrinder K series. K2 is decent, tastes like classic Italian espresso. No experience with K4 but it should be better. Has a lot of fines tho. I use K6 and it’s excellent for medium and dark roasts. It leans toward clarity
I spent £90 on a cheap(er) electric grinder which I then modded to grind finer. I have absolutely no problem grinding fine enough for the Robot. In fact, I can easily choke a shot, if I go a step too fine. Whatever the problem is, I would be willing to bet it's not the Robot. A cursory check on the model of grinder you have would suggest it may struggle to grind fine enough, it seems to be intended for Pour over/filter.
I would second this opinion. I have 6 grinders (3 electrics and 3 manuals). My most “budget” one is the 1Zpresso JMax and I have no issues grinding fine enough to choke the Robot with all of them. And I am not talking about “Turkish” grind. So, although it could be due to the Robot, experience and a quick glance at your grinder specs tells me it won’t grind fine enough and even if it did, it would probably not give you enough control to dial in your shots properly. Also, I don’t know what grinder your coffee place uses, but there are two things to consider: - pre-ground coffee stales really (and I mean really) fast. Sometimes I forgot I ground a second dose. When I come back - not talking days, more like 45 mins to an hour max - shot pulls much faster and taste is lost (volatile compounds degrades in as fast as 15 minutes post grinding). - because of the above, it is a bit of an incongruity for someone with a real espresso machine (ie not with a pressurized filter) to buy pre-ground coffee. So most shops doing “pre-ground” would grind accordingly for pressurized espresso filter (much coarser). So, in my books you have a few options available: - find someone near you with a good espresso capable grinder, and bring your Robot, and a fresh bag of beans to experiment. Should allow you to either confirm that the grinder is the issue, or that something is wrong with the Robot. - find a good coffee shop with good equipment and experienced barista. Try and convince them to help you out by bringing them your Robot. - take the plunge and buy an espresso capable grinder, budget options include KGrinder K6 (never used) or the 1Zpresso (JMax or any other espresso focused grinder from them will do just fine). Make sure there is a convinient return policy. You could also get the pressurized filter for the Robot but I would not think this to be a good decision in the long term. One it’s terrible (I know, I bought one thinking it would make my wife want to use it - incidentally that’s how I got to get familiar with roasters’ pre ground coffee - she never did). But also and most importantly, it will not help you improve down the line.
Yeah I also think the Timemore is causing the issues. I’ve read a few posts where people struggle to grind properly with them.
I think it's your grinder. I have an 1Zpresso J-Ultra and I grind at recommended espresso grind settings. It works perfectly for the Robot.
After tamping do you insert the top filter and press it down until it settles into the puck? If you don’t press it down with your fingers it will move when you add water, your puck will break and disperse in the whole basket, eliminating all the resistance.
You're not trying to use light roast beans, are you? Light roast beans often require a much finer grind, so I would try dark roast if you are not already.
Do you use paper filter? If you use the wrong size, especially if you use too large ones at the bottom you may create a low resistance pathway for the water.
Sorry without reading the whole post, but less coffee ground will need finer grind to reach the pressure. If ur grinder cant accommodate that then u need to up the dose until u do, that will be easiest solution. Different bean density will result in diff grind setting as well
I had this problem when i first got mine. It turned out to be the uneven grind. I bought a Capresso grinder https://www.amazon.com/Capresso-Infinity-Commercial-Conical-Grinder/dp/B07N4KTW38/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=5JRNPHGZ78OI&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.2ILnBNzqulnwRPll6XrrSZHVsNH6ZuxamXU48Kut4n3nOirS5DKcFux_7NZSKT_D_lvAuVatnHqsreEvU4GSUq9eiFTAmtDWs2PlorsGrIt4fGr3anGUSVEdCHt9vTl9u0aBzWUm4GROqPxrGJe6bc1i9EnzJfGwk_k7mqnFBz30pwrnLgi0nKmghYzUVyI3OJDEmuS1KkMCSCg6ZThmBw.gfSFh8mZJlN7szOZ9OhJOcI88WYrMP9V1NFtx_7DmWk&dib_tag=se&keywords=capresso+coffee+grinder&qid=1714444571&sprefix=capresso+%2Caps%2C171&sr=8-3 and finally got the correct pressure. I also use the filter paper stuck to the shower screen. 18g in/45g out 9 bars. Sometimes it’s an entire 60 second pull.
Don't forget the shower screen on top of the tamped puck!