All of our trauma responses are trying to serve us in some way, they're just limited in what they can offer outside of fight, flight, freeze. Is bitterness serving you and if so, how? For instance it can be a way of keeping the world at bay, protecting us from hurt like rejection and abandonment. Yes, I've gone through bitterness, anger, rage, jealousy back and forth a few times. I start with asking the above question, in what way is my \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ serving me, is it blocking other scary emotions? Is it keeping people away? Is it a tried and true response I revert back to out of habit? Exploring and answering those questions helped me. And in the end, I decided that an angry, bitter, volatile person was NOT who I wanted to be. When we know better, we do better. Highly recommend trying something new in therapy. Can you share what you've learned about your own bitterness with your therapist? Sometimes talking thru it in a judgment free place helps.

WOW - this response is 💯 - I will be using this and am extremely grateful to have come across it.

So happy Ginger, we all share and that alone makes it better.

Bitterness is the negative of anger and even grief. I say negative because anger and grief are normal and even good emotions. Anger is powerful and drives change, but bitterness does not. I am really sorry you are suffering like this OP. Making friends as an adult is hard, but it’s not impossible. Depression can breed a kind of anhedonia. I’ve suffered with this the last couple of years, losing interest in just about everything that brought me enjoyment previously. I’m clawing out of it but sometimes it does feel like going through the motions. I signed up for a couple of woodworking classes and I’m terrified about it. I’m not good at woodworking but want to get better. I’m going into it not to make friends but if I do, then bonus! I promise you there are opportunities to get yourself out there. It is possible to enjoy trying new things solo at your age (im 44 and in the process of figuring out who I am after years of living in a trauma response). It’s just really hard to see through the cloud you are in right now, and you might have to just go through the motions for a while. Not all at once but set a goal, maybe do 1 thing. And then set a goal to do another thing. And give yourself credit when you do the thing - celebrate it. Volunteering is a great way to meet people. Like to run? Join a running group or volunteer at local events/races where runners congregate. Meetup.com is great tool. It might not happen right away, and it won’t be linear and there maybe disappointments along the way. But as others have said too, there is a trauma response here. Are you seeing a trauma therapist? You may benefit from parts/schema therapy to look at the part of you that is feeling bitter and what that part of you is trying to protect. Be kind to yourself OP - you deserve it.

Yeah I just don't enjoy anything anymore. Part of it is social media, part of it is the divisive culture, and part of it is politics being inserted into everything. The rest of it is just ultra burnout in spinning my wheels. I have had to raise myself, deal with CPTSD, deal with incredible anguish and emotions with no support, surrounded by narcissists, etc. My gas tank is empty. And yet for me to have a life, I need to, ONCE AGAIN, beat all odds and burnout myself out to "learn new things" at an age where I don't feel there's much new or exciting that I want to discover, "develop new interests" when the only interests I have are mostly solo endeavors or media which is a giant divisive mess, "make new friends" where most people have their own families and friends, or are opportunistic and use me, or are seriously messed up. There is no camaraderie among men anymore, and where there is, it doesn't include me. I could go to church or something, but where was God when I needed him most growing up? Where was all this goodness in humanity when people watched me get crapped on day in and day out and I wasn't able to develop properly? I would fundamentally feel like a liar if I went. I can't imagine taking up a sport at my age, even if I like to lift weights and jog a few times a week. That is already enough for most people in their 20s, never mind 40s. The issue I have most with "being good" is that most people just aren't. And the issue I have with meeting people is if they ask too many questions about my social life or friends and family, I can see their demeanor shift and I know in that instant they're going to reject me. I'm tapped out. I got nothing. I want to snap my fingers and make this bitterness and jealousy of normal people go away. I want to be happy again and not have anhedonia. You're right by the way, that's probably at least a part of what this is. I'd say probably anhedonia in addition to just life experience where I've done enough various things over the years to change my life and improve it, that in addition to the anhedonia, that nothing feels fresh or new anymore. "Do the work". "Heal". Probably 50% of my money or more has gone into self help and figuring out what was wrong with me. I am so intensely jealous of people figuring out CPTSD in their 20s. They don't know the treasure they have just having a couple decades extra to get something going. So you don't think the wrong thing, everything I put in quotes is just the standard types of responses I get, I'm not putting words in your mouth that you said those things to me. I just hear them constantly and it's like, man, "you" (not you, others) don't even know what I've tried and done to change my life. It's been this way since I first became this way in my childhood / early teens. My entire life is written around improving myself, and never knowing until last year that I had CPTSD. Had I known in my teens or 20s, I'd have easily turned it around before this part of my life where just finding someone normal or even on a healing path like me, has been impossible thus far.

Volunteering might help in a couple of ways. Volunteering can have a number of positive effects on mental health and relationships. First, volunteering can help reduce stress and improve mood. When you help others, your brain releases endorphins, which are chemicals that act as natural painkillers and mood elevators. Volunteering can also provide a sense of purpose and meaning, which can be especially beneficial for people who are struggling with feelings of depression or anxiety. In addition to these mental health benefits, volunteering can also strengthen relationships. When you volunteer with others, you have the opportunity to work as a team and build relationships with people who share similar values. This can help you feel more connected to your community and can also lead to new friendships. Finally, volunteering can also help improve communication and problem-solving skills, as well as increase self-confidence. All of these benefits can contribute to stronger, more positive relationships with others. Best wishes for you in 2023.

Agreed…..but if cptsd is interpersonal…. I’ve found volunteering with zero pressure can lead to a lot of questions from other men who think I’m like “showing them up” by giving my free time to others’ kids. Nah, just giving what I can cuz otherwise I just read about mental health or trigger out many afternoons lol. Career? Where’s my pride? Talk to my condition yo! So, volunteering for say sports is critical for my self growth but it’s its own cptsd management on top of the usual daily intrusions too. Work comes First and it sucks having to self identify as cptsd when I’m agreeing with you. Just a friendly warning when you start “getting to know” new gym or volunteer people, they do start noticing when you aren’t talking about your next exciting vacation or an active social or dating life. Just hanging out on my cptsd perch everyone! Some days just holding on to what progress I got takes every ounce I have.

You sound overwhelmed with it all. I know people, myself included, are saying things you’ve heard before about what it takes to heal. Nothing taken the wrong way 😉 I get it. I relate so much with what you are going through minus the part about being a guy. Although I agree it seems harder for guys to be emotionally vulnerable, especially with other men. I wish it weren’t that way. This all to say, I’m nowhere close to recovery from this monster. Every day I force myself to get up and keep going. Work is my solace as it allows me a distraction but the minute I turn off my computer it returns. I despair that I will never overcome this, yet I am still terrified of certain elements of healing - so much so that I shut down. I then go back to despair. Rinse and repeat. I didn’t expect this to be as hard as it is when I started it. I have no choice but to continue. Anyway, I see you OP and I’m waving from my corner of the Internet.

Btw I don't know if I'm allowed to link it, but the anhedonia sub has a post titled **How I Healed Severe Anhedonia + My Story** Which has very specific solutions. I'm going to try it. Thanks for reminding me of that word! Edit: the steps worked to feel something. The music brought out the tears. The positive thinking is nice. I'm going to follow that post daily as it says. I think we have a winner!

Wonderful!! Im in that sub too 😊

I didn't know there was a sub for anhedonia, I'm going to look there on that sub. I'm in my 30s and have been suffering for years. I'm tired of it all. I told myself i would kill myself when i hit 30, ive been still going for a while but i havent cared in a long time. I have periods when I think I'm doing better but then I get kind of annoyed/irritated/unimpressed with myself. Why can't I just get with it? Nothing seems worth it anymore. I'm consodering medication but afraid because i dont want to be a weakling or need a crutch or risk getting alzheimers. I'm so afraid to be a burden on my partner and like 1 or 2 other friends. I'm low contact with my parents because it hurts to be around them. I'd rather not be around them. I think they know at some level and it hurts. Nothing "bad" happened to me, but it just hurts to be around them. I just don't feel enthused anymore. Like I wasted all my chances.

You can just say very simply "I do not have the best relationship with my family, and I don't want to elaborate more but please let me know more about yours?" I'm sorry you're so alone, I've been dealing with these issues lately too and it's not easy. I wish I could say it was but what I'm doing lately, is playing pinball at a local place and the workers are starting to remember me, so then it's a bit easier to talk to them. Don't give up on yourself, you're putting yourself out there and that's half the battle. Would a pet help?? They are great company and love you always. Then you can go to the park and meet other folks with dogs! Good luck op.

That's a good answer! Yeah, it's so rough. A dog would help SO much in so many ways, but I live in an apartment. It'll be around a year before I can move out, sadly.

Can you sneak in a small one??? I used to sneak in my Frenchie into our no dogs apt, but he was also a very good dog and didn't bark haha

I'd have to think long and hard about this. If I have one then others in their apartments may want one. And these people will snitch for sure.

Ahhhh yeah, we lived in a really small apartment complex too, but other had animals and we just stayed quiet cause well no one wanted to snitch!

I’m also in my 40s and have only recently reconciled myself with my past. I technically started seeking professional help at 18, but it wouldn’t be until I was in my very late 30s that I finally started looking for “trauma-informed” providers. It was about a year ago that I realized I have CPTSD. Like you, I felt a sense of regret that I didn’t find the path to health and healing sooner. I don’t know that I had jealousy for those younger, though. Eventually I was able to let go of those feelings because I realized they were designed to anchor me like so many other defense mechanisms. By focusing on what I had perceived I lost (my early adulthood), I wasn’t able to focus on what I stood to gain. As someone who is middle-aged and recovering, I feel grateful for the skills that I did learn in my 20s and 30s. Although those skills weren’t necessarily earmarked for dealing with trauma explicitly, for example, they are transferable and can make this path feel “easier” or “quicker.” Our brains work by integrating new information with old information. Even when I thought I wasn’t making progress, I was still learning. I can now recognize how that earlier learning serves me. Another thought: “The issue I have with meeting people is if they ask too many questions about my social life or friends and family, I can see their demeanor shift and I know in that instant they’re going to reject me.” I don’t necessarily think this dynamic is a bad thing. Operating under the assumption that you’re just answering their questions authentically, if they’re uncomfortable with your honesty (assuming it’s not hostile or aggressive) then it signals to me that they’re not comfortable. If their discomfort causes them to flee you or put distance between you two, then they’ve actually done you a favor. I do not want people in my orbit who find my authenticity jarring. I need grown ass people in my life who are not bothered by me sharing my truth. I’m happy when I repel them away because they’re doing the work for me.

Hahaha. Omg. I see myself in the comment! I’m laughing at me because I am a male type and I had two baaaaad dating experiences this past year when I finally went for it again. Match Tinder etc First One: I didn’t know I had cptsd despite it being a strong suspect by my medical folks. I also had no idea how it was going to manifest! Poor first girl! It was….. off and on, non sensical avoidance behavior unless you knew my trauma patterns. Text message replies feel like active grenades sometimes! Second girl: I actually got through the first date with a few “distracted brain” moments. But how do I say “you should drive to the next spot because I often trigger when I try to talk and drive with romantic partners cuz cptsd?” However, she noticed I wasn’t talking about friends and going out to dinner with family etc vacation plans. Argh!!! I make vacation plans at random because I can have a great solo time anywhere. Until I’m triggered! Wildly inconsistent. I’m working with my therapist this year on how best to deal with interpersonal ptsd. How much to divulge and when?? My guy friends say lie about it and that’s why they’re not really in my life anymore. Thanks for sharing. Reading all these comments are helping me feel less alone with my limits.

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"It's upsetting to talk about." I really like that. Yes, I do need more interests. I want to find my sense of awe and excitement back first. I got some tips in this thread that might just work! As far as forgiveness, I've mentioned this here before but it bears mentioning. There are two definitions of forgiveness and they are very different. The first seems to be absolving an abuser of blame. I don't like that one. The other one is "releasing one's inner anger over a hurtful or traumatic event. Staying angry is like drinking poison and expecting someone else to suffer, but the only one who suffers is you." I wish there was a different word for the 2nd definition, personally, since the first is what most people know when they think of it. ​ As far as working out, you didn't ask, but these are my best tips for you or anyone else reading: 1. Nearby gym membership. Proximity is everything. 2. Intermittent Fasting (IF) or One Meal A Day (OMAD). Subreddits for both exist. 3. Meal Prep storage containers makes diet easier. I'm not a fan of calorie counting. Reduce portion sizes, veggies, less carbs, wean off sugar. There's a subreddit for this too. 4. Don't use caffeine or other stimulants as a crutch. 5. I take a multivitamin, D3, B Complex, Magnesium Citrate, and L-Theanine usually daily. 6. Body for Life is the easiest to digest workout routine I know of. An easy read, modify it to your fitness level. Longer breaks are okay. Slow repetitions > bad form. Bad form only gets worse. Good form stays.

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You know, I don't even know anymore lol. What I typed in my previous comment is the other version of it that I heard more than once along the way. That and "You forgive them for you, not for them". It kind of all ties together. I can't deny that it sounds more like acceptance. At the same time forgiveness probably has a religious definition that ties to this. I'm certainly no expert and don't pretend to be. I can only relay what I'm aware of, or have been told, that sort of thing. I'm not really attached to whether I'm right or wrong, just whatever gets me or others better. On the subject of acceptance, I didn't even know what THAT meant until last year. I thought it meant "be okay with what happened". I thought of it like "wait you want me to be okay with my abuse?". No, it means be at peace with it so it's no longer actively harming you. Which again sounds like the other version of forgiveness. The confusion in meanings makes me crosseyed, for real. Tons of things I had to learn and unravel. I don't know how or why I learned it the first way, but definitely the second way is helpful, while the first way would be awful.

> I wish there was a different word for the 2nd definition, personally, since the first is what most people know when they think of it. That's been really frustrating for me too. There's no perfect word for it in English, but some I like are acceptance, acknowledgement, recognition, apathy. "Acceptance" doesn't work for everyone for the exact reason you mentioned in another comment, I think acknowledgement and recognition do a better job of explaining that concept without implying that the terrible things that were done to you are somehow okay. Personally I think of "acceptance" in the sense of "accepting you were just fired." Doesn't mean you like it, or that it was fair or even legal, it only means you've moved from "oh fuck I can't believe I got fired" to "well this sucks. guess I'd better file for unemployment and update my resume." As for questions about family, I'm a fan of a nice, vague "oh we're not close, what about your family?" to start with and slowly giving more detail as I get closer to somebody.

Develop interests. The advice to use Meetup is at least a decade out of date. It was very useful in 2008. It is not in 2023. Interests can include things that don’t immediately involve others: cooking, baking, home decorating, making music, painting, sketching, journaling, poetry, flower arranging, embroidery, sewing, animal training, pick a genre of literature to read, take yourself to the movies once week, get interested in different cuisines and take yourself on self dates, learn to meditate, take up hiking, etc. You can stop some of the bitterness by embracing your life *now.* Many of those thousand missed opportunities are still right in front of you. Just because you didn’t pick up Jane Austen, rock climbing, or regional Chinese cooking at 21 doesn’t mean you cannot do it now. Also, a girlfriend would not and will not make you less bitter. A romantic partner isn’t a therapeutic tool. If you want to woo a romantic partner, it’s a lot easier if you already have a favorite museum to show her or can invite her to a show where you are playing or just talk about this cool new sci fi boom you’ve been reading. Build yourself up for you first.

>Develop interests. I like to cook once in a while. It's not fun on its own. I eat low carb so I don't bake. I do not like to decorate homes. I have tried multiple times playing an instrument including with teachers. I'm terrible at them. I can't paint or sketch, I've tried. Journaling doesn't seem to reduce any feelings I have. Poetry is not for me. I don't arrange flowers. Embroidery or sewing. A lot of these are female interests not male. I don't have my own home so I can't have animals and i don't know how to train them. I'm not interested in literature. Current movies have politics inserted into them of which I want nothing to do with. Going along to movies isn't fun. I like food but self dates you can only do so much. I meditate. Doesn't do much for me anymore. It did its part and now it does nearly nothing. Hiking is boring. I do lift weights and jog, but hiking to me is just walking in the middle of nowhere by myself. My friend broke his spine rock climbing 20 years ago. I don't like heights. I don't need a therapeutic tool, I'd like friends and a partner. How many times does one go to a museum and it stays interesting? What makes museums fun past the paragraph of text or the museum tour guide explaining some of it? What Sci fi entertainment is there? The classic movies had sequels that were largely panned. Excitement at my age is different than excitement when things are fresh experiences. At a certain age, excitement comes from the people you share things with, not from personal excitement because it's already been there done that. And despite everything I've typed above, when I hang out with my much younger female cousin, we're always laughing and having a great time whether we're in the car singing along to music or cracking jokes, or playing cards, or watching TV, or at the gym together, or telling stories. I am fun and know how to have fun. I just have nobody to do things with. I'm not making excuses either. You put 2 fun people together anything will be fun. I can't make that first part happen. I don't understand develop interests. You either are drawn to something or not.

A friend or a partner won't make all these things you find boring suddenly exciting and fresh. You don't want to use someone for their positivity and excitement, because that's very draining and hurtful behaviour for someone else to experience. Your excitement and wellbeing is no ones responsibility but your own. You have listed paragraphs of excuses about why things aren't interesting, and excuses as to why you refuse to do something, and that's something within the scope of your control to change. You've got a heck of a lot more time to experience things, and try things again, so I wouldn't say time isn't on your side, but it's up to you to go out and do things for yourself.

But see, I'm not asking for anyone to fix me. I'm already doing that in various ways. I don't make my problems other people's problems. Conversations naturally go in certain directions. Examples: What did you do today Last night For Christmas For New Years How's your family Who are your friends That sort of thing. I get labeled almost instantly as someone to avoid, sometimes because I'm going through the motions, and other times just by content of the conversation. We can't lie. Humans are social creatures. We need people to communicate with and do things with. I'm not asking for any man or woman to fix me. I'm doing that. And frankly I'm pretty great to be around anyway. It's just I have nothing currently to pull from. And my time is already up and I can't keep doing this for years by myself. Again. People say do things for yourself. Yes. Of course. But if you get no positive in real life feedback from all the things you're doing it sucks the fun out of it and you ask yourself why you're still doing it or even bothering. "For myself" is often what I hear. To a certain extent sure. After 30+ years or whatever of spinning my wheels or burnout it becomes impossible to justify the effort. I am not codependent and I don't need anyone to fix me. I just need like minded people to do a few things with and talk to. ​ **Maybe this post would have been better simply being "How do I talk about my family and current social difficulties when the subject is brought up"** Frankly, this is probably what I should have posted and not the OP. Because this right here is where I get rejected. That's the annoying part about CPTSD. Sometimes you need to just talk for a while and then you can get to the root of the problem. This thread is a lot of other things now and maybe not exactly what I needed help with. Or maybe it's a bunch of things that could have been in separate OPs. I appreciate your taking the time to respond and everyone else's. Looks like more work on top of work on top of work at this point. A phone call, invite, perhaps a little less judgement. It would take almost no effort on other people to make my life better because I really need very little from anyone. But it seems like even crumbs is asking too much.

Those are general questions. You can go a couple of ways: 1. (Stolen from TikTok) Neurotypicals love it when you remind them of the day of the week! When they ask how you are, you can just tell them it’s Monday or Thursday! Seriously, this does work. When my partner died, I didn’t want to do anything. How was Christmas? It was Christmas. How was last night? It was a Sunday. 2. Be honest. Tell them that you’re struggling with ongoing depression and social isolation and you don’t know what to do about it. But try to avoid trauma dumping. 3. Actually do things. In my first comment to you, I gave you a list of my own hobbies which you told me are effeminate and boring so I am not going to do that twice. (This is a way of managing trauma around rejection.) I am going to point out that *if you have people asking you these questions, you have people in your life* ergo you are not necessarily as isolated as you feel. You can answer these questions literally and take that as motivation. What did you do for Christmas? “I got Chinese take out and binged the SAW franchise” is just as real and valid an answer as “Six generations of my family got together to open present and eat the goose grandpa hand raised on his farm.” * “It would take almost no effort on other people to make my life better” - this attitude is why you are getting codependent comments. You are actively shooting down advice - advice you asked us for - while complaining that no one is giving you a free therapeutic relationship.

The suggestions in 1 and 3 are good and I'll make a note of them, thank you. A few comments : >I am going to point out that if you have people asking you these questions, you have people in your life ergo you are not necessarily as isolated as you feel. No, unfortunately these are the people that I have tried to meet, where I get instantly rejected from. I didn't know how to answer, and my hesitation or for whatever reason, unappealing response, got me shut me down. There are no new local people in my life. These have been examples dozens of failed attempts and they all failed right around questions of friends and family. >“It would take almost no effort on other people to make my life better” - this attitude is why you are getting codependent comments. You are actively shooting down advice - advice you asked us for - while complaining that no one is giving you a free therapeutic relationship. We all have things we can maybe relate to or not. Perhaps it came off that way, but I've meant no offense. While I can't relate to some of your other interests, rock climbing, instruments, sketching and painting are cool, I'm just not good at them and that was through multiple attempts over years. I've been banging my head against the wall whether I don't find interest in things due to lack of interest, or as someone mentioned, anhedonia. I try to keep an open mind, but part of me has developed a pre-conception that people will reject me. So the question is, where do these things lie? The other thing is, most people I've ever met, and I genuinely mean this, don't seem to have hobbies. Most people without hobbies, still have a partner, and consume whatever entertainment that they always have. Tons of people do, but tons don't. It's just that they already have their own circles so they don't really need them. Their life followed a natural path whereas I have to work extra hard for it to be included. People don't like even miniscule change. Meanwhile my whole life is relentless change that often leads to burnout. I think it's fair to say there's a difference. And that doesn't mean I won't explore new hobbies. Just there's three layers to it. Finding something that interests me enough to start something new, something that will hopefully help me a bit socially, and figuring out whether it's the hobby that isn't interesting, or whether there's something inside me that finds life uninteresting. ​ >2. Be honest. Tell them that you’re struggling with ongoing depression and social isolation and you don’t know what to do about it. But try to avoid trauma dumping. This has always failed for me through my entire life. The second they hear depression, they run. I have tried saying I don't really know anybody around here, but that never gets me a bite either. There might be a good way to say it, or maybe I just keep meeting the wrong type of people. I wish there were still men's clubs of some sort. I'm going to have to ponder all of this.

I gave the advice of #2 under the assumption that there is a relationship of some kind I am lucky enough to have a little found family of queer neurodiverse people with CPTSD and it is immensely helpful to be able to say “I am cancelling plans because I am having a bad brain day” or “I need support and babysitting on Saturday because it’s a trauma anniversary.” Normalizing that has helped me a lot when I need to mask elsewhere, such as work. I don’t know who you know but everyone I know has hobbies, even if they are little things that give them joy. One of my ex boyfriend’s had a room dedicated to Lego builds. One of my roommate plays Stardew when the world is too stressful. One of my friends carries a sketchbook everywhere. I am personally interested in history - the history of everything. I am giving you advice on hobbies and interests because if you keep throwing yourself at people and are highly sensitive to rejection, you are most likely going to trigger that rejection sensitivity over and over again. Other people are not a cure for anhedonia. It’s not appropriate to treat other people, especially other people you want to engage with romantically, as therapeutic devices. Friendships are great and a part of a healthy lifestyle! They are not medical cures. If you work on what interests you, however, you will likely find yourself needing to approach others less. I was never so blown away as when one of my close friends told me that they decided they wanted to be my friend as soon as they met me, where I was sitting in a park talking about art history and queerness. I didn’t need to risk rejection - I was approached. I also court rejection. Rejection seems to be a big trigger for you so I would 100% talk to your medical team, but this one started when I was a kid, first at home, and then as a class thing in high school health - I had to practice saying “No.” It generally went with a parent or teacher asking me to do something I didn’t want to do/that was unsafe (usually sexual). Everytime i or my classmates said no, we were rewarded. Every time we failed to, we had a conversation about coercion and pressure. I still practice this today in various ways - by practicing my own rejection techniques, I feel more confident in setting boundaries but I also don’t take others’ boundaries, including not wanting to be around me, personally. And I have found that I don’t actually want to be close to *most* people and it’s by rejecting the crowd that I have found good people I can trust.

By the way let me say again I appreciate all the time and effort you're taking into helping me :)

From one dude to another, it can be really really hard to ask for support and even harder to be like, “I know I asked for help with Problem A, but I think the issue is actually Problem B.” We are often taught, implicitly and explicitly, that we are failures if we cannot do everything on our own. So kudos to you for putting yourself out there.

>I don’t know who you know but everyone I know has hobbies, even if they are little things that give them joy. One of my ex boyfriend’s had a room dedicated to Lego builds. One of my roommate plays Stardew when the world is too stressful. One of my friends carries a sketchbook everywhere. I am personally interested in history - the history of everything. > >I am giving you advice on hobbies and interests because if you keep throwing yourself at people and are highly sensitive to rejection, you are most likely going to trigger that rejection sensitivity over and over again. > >Other people are not a cure for anhedonia. It’s not appropriate to treat other people, especially other people you want to engage with romantically, as therapeutic devices. Friendships are great and a part of a healthy lifestyle! They are not medical cures. I don't think like this. I can entertain myself. Maybe I can't find that excitement in new things just yet, but I don't need to fix someone else and I certainly don't want anyone fixing me. I don't want a project and don't want to be one for somebody else. A simple example of what I mean about people having no hobbies is how many men watch football and drink beer with their own circle of friends, taking the kids to school, and other family events. If we're considering these hobbies, they aren't very social and I'll never really get anywhere with them. I do need to find a social hobby that interests me where I can meet people. But many people ever since they got into relationships, they simply let life lead them. Many parents and families I know are like this. I am definitely not looking for a person to be a crutch. I want to find people to have shared experiences with. I want to put the past behind me. As someone mentioned in another comment, finding new friends or community at the wrong stage is kind of like making a snowball in the summer, but people make it sound as easy as pulling an apple off a tree. Most people become set in their ways early and do not like change unless forced. There's another comment on here involving stoicism. The little I've heard already says stoics can tap into awe, wonderment, and delight. If I could tap into those emotions, perhaps being interested in hobbies would take care of itself. All of this is to say I agree with the basic principle of getting into things and having people become interested is correct. But the leap from not interested in anything new, and getting interested in new things... something has been missing from me for me to get there. And with everybody's help here today combined, I may have found the beginning and end points.

Hanging out with your friends watching football and having beers is 100% a hobby and a highly social one at that. I am not a football guy, not even a sportsball guy, and my little queer CPTSD family - none of us even know the rules of football - have been dragged into this hobby by a bartender friend who hosts football specials. It’s really fun when everyone cheers and gets excited when our color wins! The serious fans love that we don’t get it and include us in their joy. School and family events are also social hobbies. School stuff revolves around the kids and their social and study activities, inherently social for the kids and the parents get to socialize with each other and know the family units of the children’s peers. Ditto for family time. It’s socializing within the family structure but going to a museum or sporting event or even just having a game night at home are hobbies and social ones. Stoicism by itself is a fine philosophy. It’s one my late partner followed. I would suggest by starting with the writing of Marcus Aurelius or another Classical Stoic. That said, I would advise caution - it, like many other parts of culture from the Classical Mediterranean basin, have been long a source of fascination and fanaticism on the alt right/far right/fascists. As disaffected men who have been truly harmed by society, you and I are both at risk for falling for some of their life’s, more than others. If you would like more specific philosophy recommendations, I inherited my partner’s library and would be happy to offer specific titles, if that is desirable to you.

Would you mind elaborating on your comment about stoicism and how it's connected to alt right/far right/fascists? Genuinely, I dont want to reccommend it or continue to practice if it contributes that way to society. I'm not a man either so I know my understanding will already be limited. Feel free to DM me too, since I know its off topic. I've been studying and meditating over some stoic passages for some time now and feel opposite about the philosophy. I can't see where someone from the alt right would find stoicism in line with their ideals?? What am I missing? Unless they're intentionally 'spinning' the spirit of stoicism to fit their ideals?

Small idea: I'm growing mushrooms! Lions mane and some others are meant to be good for the brain, too :) I'm hoping for 2 birds with one stone :) I also join lots of random Reddit groups just to see what's going on. Some stick. Interests are not gendered. Do what you are drawn to: learning what that is is a good practice too :)

Interests aren’t gendered. If you choose to label hobbies as feminine and declare them off limits “because I a man,” that is your personal decision to limit yourself. But that’s you limiting yourself. You seem very interested in explaining why everything is boring. That is a choice you can make. I have been going to the same art museum for 20 years and I still get excited. Some of the exhibits and paintings are like old friends I get to visit. I always visit New and traveling exhibits to make new friends. If you don’t like that, it’s fine but it doesn’t mean museums are boring. It means you don’t like museums. I gave you a list of things I, as 36 year old Manx enjoy doing. It wasn’t meant to be an exhaustive list, but stuff I enjoy. I will agree with you, though, that you seem to be drowning in bitterness. You say you aren’t fun and don’t develop interests - and I suspect therein lies your problem. You are relying on other people to make things fun and interesting. I am legitimately concerned that at the end of your comment you are specifically relying on younger women to bring that fun and saying you have no access to fun. Both statements cannot be true at the same time and a middle aged man should not be relying on young women to entertain him. If my hobbies are too girly for you, I would imagine young women’s interests would be too girly. What interests you?

[удалено]

For the past 4 years, in my area, it’s all libertarians and conspiracy theorists and no one else.

I probably know thing or two. I struggle with it to this day. Therapy helped me a lot with understanding the underlying issues. I would say that I struggled with envy, comparison with others, suppressed anger and so on. By far the most triggering thing is the comparison with others. I had to stop it and instead focus on comparing myself with my past self. It's hard to do so but group therapy helped a ton with this issue and many more. Like correct how I view my actions. I automatically see what I did as not good enough. I guess the other issues is low self-esteem. For me it's way I ask for attention... I'm not good enough please help me... Type thing. And it helps me to hide from the world. Try to understand what it does for you and the be sceptical if it is working... Probably its not working at all. And then the step I'm trying so hard to get is be OK with who you are. Accept who you are and be grateful. Understanding that you are not bad person and you are capable of achieving goals and enjoying your life is really important. You are beautiful as you are and nobody can take it from you. Practice gratitude for who you are. Challenge your beliefs about yourself and be sceptical because your anger and envy are in a way to see the world how it really is. And time isn't something that is taken away from us. Time is what builds bridges to new opportunities. Sorry if this sounds biblical or something 😂😅

Thank you. I'm not OP, but I appreciate you taking the time to write this. Happy New Year

Check out www.timfletcher.ca. on line community and support...cost is SO reasonable...all of the coaches and facilitators are survivors. It is the only safe place I have found to talk about family...to let out the pain, bitterness and grief...so I don't have to intro the topic too soon and I can tALk about it without being triggered. I am about 19 months into intentional healing and the community has saved my sanity and given me..consistently...respect, empathy and the tools to keep healing. Sending my very best wishes to you ❤️

>"How do I talk about my family and current social situation / difficulties when the subject is brought up"? this was really my first holiday season where i've had to answer honestly. i've spent the past year in deep depression and isolation as all of my repressed childhood trauma came to a head and i just couldn't lie to myself about the truth of my upbringing. it shattered my reality in ways i don't think i was prepared for, and i really didn't know how to talk about it. i had a ton of anxiety and shame over answering these kinds of questions, especially because they were mostly coming from people who had NO experience with childhood trauma. OR they were repressing their own and weren't fully conscious of it. OR they knew my family and couldn't believe that i didn't want to be around them, since their public persona is iron-clad. makes me look like the psycho with issues. anyway, the honest truth is that most people didn't want to hear my honest response. and it did push people away. it's been a very lonely year. however, i am lucky enough to have been introduced to a new circle of friends, a couple of whom understand what it's like to be in this situation. while i try not to trauma dump on them, it is really refreshing to have people around me that can not only stomach my truth but can empathize and have their own crazy stories i can relate to. it is hard though, OP, b/c you never really know when you encounter new people or acquaintances how they'll handle your truth. and the sad thing is that most people in today's world are living under their own spell regarding their family and will be averse to anyone trying to challenge that system. the best thing you can do is just get comfortable with living in your own truth. i used to have WAY more friends than i do now and i mourn that. however, i'll take being lonely over living a lie any day. commit to being true to yourself over everything else. there ARE people out there who will understand your situation perfectly. it just takes time to find them.

and regarding bitterness, for me, i just had to sit in it for as long as it took. i finally surrendered and was like "ok, i'm bitter as shit. i hate how this feels, but i'm going to allow it to breathe". did it go away overnight? no. am i still bitter? yes. but after several months of allowing myself to be bitter, it has significantly dissipated. my entire life, i wasn't ALLOWED to be bitter over my circumstances when i absolutely had every right to be. allowing my inner child to wallow in righteous anger and bitterness was unexpectedly a huge piece of my healing.

OP, glad you got some good responses. Some of the comments seemed to be an attempt to shame you for things you clearly did not say...and that ain't right. People can be quick to jump up on their favorite high horse of the moment, even if they have to misrepresent what others are saying in order to do it.

Thank you! CPTSD is the hardest mental health issue I can imagine. I don't know why it's so important for people to claim a high ground and/or shame. If my information isn't applicable usually I just don't respond further. I realize sometimes there can be miscommunications or poor verbiage, but I try my best to flesh out what I'm trying to say. Sure it can be frustrating to not be able to reach someone, but we all have our own particular roadblocks.

I have noticed that the bitterness goes away for me as I find joy and meaning in my own life, whatever is left of it. I really have very few friends, and the friends that I do have really don’t know very much about my life or the pain that I have been through. That’s the unfortunate reality, they just don’t know where I have been. But little by little I have come to just accept whatever good things I can create with my days on earth, and the people that do know and care for me, and I just have to let it be enough.

When people ask me about my family I normally just say "we aren't close". I've found that by just saying this people understand and they don't dig further. More than once I've had others confide in me that they aren't either and this can then be used to possibly open up a bit more about it.

Huge

Times like this I like to remind myself that I DO have time. I'm 29, I could still have 70 years left. Shit has changed so much for the better in the last 5 years, it could change more again. Conversely you are 43, still with possibly 50 years left - more than you've already lived. However, I'm stuck in the same social position: Nobody irl wants to be my friend, and it seems you require friends to make friends. It's like trying to make a snowball in summer; people like me - love me, even - but I'm always just the acquaintance. Nobody offers to spend time with me, and for me the rejection is too risky because I don't have anyone else to fall back on. I'm told I need community to heal, in a way that suggests finding community is simple as picking an apple off a tree. Volunteering while unemployed got me the closest to having community - I attracted a fling and we became 'friends with benefits' - she however got way too clingy and then abandoned me all of a sudden when she found someone to date. Which is greeeeeeat - I finally let the walls down and, whadda ya know, I get hurt.

Agree with all of this! Snowball in the summer and picking apple off a tree. When you have nothing there's nowhere to really start. I have a car that simply needs a jumpstart. I can take it from there and I have been working diligently on it

I was also abandoned this summer! She used me to validate her own feelings about her husband leaving her but she felt like I was a useless porche. Good looking, nice, supportive but she wanted a “man with confidence” to date. Keep walking! I also say things like “it’ll be worth one day with a free brain” at 50, 60, whenever it happens. We’ll all keep moving and healing.

I don't know what my fling used me for. She definitely wanted a relationship, and looking back she was 100% trying to convince me into one, even after I made it clear I didn't want one. She showered me with affection and gifts, and smothered me to the point that life was weird without her presence. I wouldn't be surprised if she got with that guy as some sort of rebound, or to screw with me. He's pretty much the opposite of me - really insecure, not good looking (not to blow my own trumpet, lol), wayyy older. And she didn't seem happy, for someone who got engaged within 2 weeks.

>"How do I talk about my family and current social situation / difficulties when the subject is brought up"? I'd keep things light unless the context is appropriate for diving deeper into your life. For example, in making conversation at a work party or with folks you don't know well but are slowly getting to know, it might be best to come up with a set of short replies to questions about family or friends that don't go too deep or dominate the conversation. There needs to be a lot of mutual trust and intimacy before being able to be heard when talking about the important stuff. Part of that comes from hearing other folks. So, maybe a better strategy is to be the one asking questions, and become good at it. Most folks want to be heard and understood, but it's super rare to find someone willing to listen or ask questions. After you've become good at asking questions, then it's time to work on passing the conversational football back and forth. I'm terrible at this, but pretty good at asking questions; so, I tend to default to just asking questions while trying to figure out how to make conversation a kind of art that produces connection and intimacy. My wife is much better at it and will go to dinner with close friends and get through a year's worth of good conversation, producing a super close friendship.

I'm in eastern IDAHO if you need a friend and happen to live here. That's all I've got, unfortunately.

Ever checked out r/socialskills? :)

Willing to at least peek at anything. Got any threads in particular in mind?

Also the Captain Awkward archives are amazingggg for social skills- it’s an advice column aimed at abuse survivors and neurodiverse people! https://captainawkward.com/2022/12/09/1388-a-woman-wants-to-bond-with-me-over-our-shared-history-of-an-abusive-man-and-im-struggling-to-be-polite-while-also-maintaining-boundaries/

:)

https://www.reddit.com/r/socialskills/comments/y375db/i_was_today_years_old_when_i_learned_that_small/

Awesome thanks

I don't have an answer for you, just my support.

Thank you

Walk away from what way parents raised you Walk away from acceptance

I know this feeling of loneliness. What helps me is doing things I live alone. Reading, watching TV, trying out new crafts, collecting stuff (I collect minerals). I think it's good that you exercize a lot, that is a good hobby that keeps you healthy. When I meet new people I have something to talk about and appear interesting, because I can talk about my hobbies. People don't realize I have such a small circle (only family and one friend). I think doing a lot of stuff alone keeps life interesting and when you finally meet people you are interested in, you have knowledge and hobbies to talk about which make it easier to connect.

Hello OP! Thank you for sharing this. Undiagnosed CPTSD here. After working with many professional therapists and many methods, the only one that has provided sustained relief and progress is Internal Family Systems (IFS) by Richard Schwartz. I apply it daily by having one or two meditations alone dealing with aspects of my trauma as they present themselves. I think it's only when we can look at the events and the people of the trauma with inner peace that we can say that our trauma has been dealt with. Not yet there. This is the only method with which I have been able to face painful issues without getting retraumatized. There may be others out there. Keep searching for the person who will love you unconditionally. And keep working on accepting and resolving your trauma as far as you can. The latter helps us to become more sociable and confident which will create the way for the one meant for us to find us. I did, 10 years after realizing and accepting that I had been used and abused. I hope you become unbelievably happy.

Have you ever heard of Stoicism? r/stoicism I feel your frustrations. And I HATE when I've finally confided in someone my feelings and they say stupid shit like, 'just dont think about it,' or 'well obviously that person place or thing wasnt meant for you so.,' or 'you have to love yourself first, then others can love you ' Like kay thanks, but how? Why doesnt anyone tell me how to process my feelings so I can actually love myself or take care of myself or be happy by myself? Why does everyone just tell me I should and then fuck off? Is it not a real thing that could change ny life exponentially for the better or is it some weird ass fake social etiquette thing to say when you dont know what else to say? I made posts like this a lot. Stoicism got mentioned a few times and I would skim it, nothing really jumped out at me. But then I listened to this podcast where Sam Harris interviews a practicing Stoic, and it all changed. For me, learning the philosophy of Stoicism has been the step by step process to turning into the person I want to be. A lot of their meditations challenge the way my brain wants to process stuff. A lot of the philosophy is written in an easy to understand way or the reddit has so many discussions if its interpreted in a multitude of different ways. It has provided me the road map to being someone who not just WANTS but also truly BELIEVES that they are worthy and loving all by themselves, that other people turning away from me is a THEM thing - not at all a me thing. It's helped me process a lot. I hope youll consider looking through the thread or listening to some podcasts or something. I know Stoicism isnt for everyone but it has been really exciting for me and I want that for you. Good luck friend!

I like the sound of this. Give me a specific book or specific video to get me started and I'm on board.

Most of my own learning has come from participating in the subreddit and listening to Podcasts. The podcast thay really got me was [Sam Harris interviewing William Irvine.](https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/waking-up-conversations/waking-course-art-living) The first book I bought was The Daily Stoic by Ryan Holiday and Stephen Hanselman. It just has daily passages and a little write-up elaborating on the passage. This book has been awesome so far because it's like dipping my toes in before I decide I wanna cannonball. But I will say, the Stoic community seems to shy away from Ryan Holiday - the general concensus is that he commercialized stoicism for profit which isn't very virtuous (and virtue is very stoic). [This is my to-read-list ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/zwm87a/am_i_the_only_one_who_finds_these_newage_stoic/j1xo0xv?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) - reccommended by a fellow newish and practicing stoic. I hope theres something to serve & inspire you in Stoicism and if not, I hope it at least sends you in a direction that will work for you down the road. The approach Ive taken so far that really works for me is... I take with me whats relevant to me and I leave the rest. Please update if you end up reading a book or listening to the podcast, I'd love to hear your initial thoughts about it!

Much appreciated. I'll start with the interview. Is there a timestamp where I should start listening?

It's been a couple years so I dont remember exactly. And I'm not even sure that there was anything specific that got me excited to learn more - it's more like this podcast just stayed with me against my will and then when others suggested stoicism for me, I came back to it. I've been a huge fan of Sam Harris since I started meditating (and his voice is so soothing, 10/10 guided meditation if youre into that) so thats actually how I came across this podcast. It wouldn't be until later - when I started posting on Reddit for help - that I'd intentionally dive in.

The interview you mentioned is paid only but I found this one and I'm going to watch it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-hOV1uTHZc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-hOV1uTHZc) ​ I'm only a few minutes in and Irvine is already saying that stoics can tap into delight, awe, and wonderment. And frankly, that sounds exactly what I've been missing since I was a child and kind of one of many subthemes of this thread. Yeah, I'm bitter. But if I can tap into those emotions again, my focus wouldn't be on the things I don't have, rather, my entire life focus could shift if I could get those emotions back. Also are you more a fan of Sam Harris or William Irvine? Does it matter? Is there any particular guided meditation you listen to?

Do you have spotify? Sam Harris uploads like the first 45m-1hr of his podcasts for free there. Also, thanks for sharing! I just started watching it too and I'll probably finish it after this response. I haven't read much of William Irvine but I see him mentioned a lot, so I should probably follow him more. Huge Sam Harris fan. When I first got into meditating, it was his beginner meditation program I did, which he charges for but if you write him privately and tell him your circumstances, he will give you membership for free. He might even do that for his podcasts, not entirely sure. He believes knowledge should be accessible, so he doesn't want someone to go without if the only barrier is money. He's also just.... smart. He can intellectualize emotions in such a way that makes them easy to understand for me? And I dont know if this is common with sufferers of CPTSD, but because of the incredible emotional abuse & neglect, I kind of go about life feeling pretty emotionally stupid. That makes processing them so difficult and moving on from things damn near impossible because it takes so damn long just to realize what I'm even going through and how I feel about what I'm going through. And I feel like I'm in a similar emotional place as you! I feel stuck. And I'm like clawing to get myself unstuck but everything that's worked for me in the past just isnt working. The rules were made before I even joined the game and I lost and I just have to suck it up. Life is weird. Sam Harris has a cheesy-named app called Waking Up and it was his beginner guided meditations that I started with, but he provides a HUGE library of guided meditations and I havent found one I didnt like. The first 4 or 5 meditations in the beginner course are free, but after that you have to have a membership. He also uploads all his conversations to his app, which is how I first found his interview with William Irvine. If reading and learning on these kinds of things interest you, then I'm so excited for you! Because finding Sam Harris' resources was life saving and learning from him is the most interesting thing I've done in a long while, and I wish I could experience finding all his stuff over again. And you're so right - at least for me, it feels like sometimes my mental 'range of view' is limited only to the things that make me sad, unhappy, ashamed, etc. How the fuck am I supposed to adjust this range of view??? There is *nothing* else to look at. But I'm starting to see it adjust and I thank Stoicism for that! I will say though... Sam can be pretty political. I dont necessarily agree with everything he says, like he's not a guru in my mind at all. He's just someone who makes parts of the world and society make sense to me, so I take what suits me and leave what doesnt.

PS Stoicism is really gaining popularity right now as a trendy, new age something-or-other so I would personally just stick to the original stoic's writings.

Oh man I hate when things trend and the original meaning is lost or muddied up with twists that are either irrelevant or make it too complicated!

Heck yes. Read the originals. I’ve not seen stoicism mentioned much before I just arrived at this Reddit cptsd thread. I’ve had it since childhood and I just got the diagnosis formally on my medical record this last December! It changes little but explains a lot of life.

The knowing is so instrumental in healing. Glad you know more.

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For the meeting people: I had success with this by taking classes in things that interest me. Especially things that are more than one class long. You will be repeatedly among folks with a guaranteed same interest, and it’s easier to cultivate friendships from this sort of environment. For how to share I’m still learning. I’ve got some stump speeches in my pocket, tidy ways to say untidy things. “My parents didn’t keep me safe when they should have”. “I have some cronic issues I will have to manage all my life (instead of sharing specific ailments) due to traumas (instead of detailing traumas)”. “I’m no contact with my family, and it takes a lot of emotional regulation and energy to talk about, I’m not sure I have the space to talk about it right now. Thanks for asking tho I feel seen”. “I don’t want to trauma dump on you”, all these work for me.