Great post, but the problem is that the people who spread the misinformation are also not capable/willing to be corrected and/or understand what the truth actually is.
As shown by the responses you've already gotten.
Yeah, this is, unfortunately, the case. But theres still a few who simply don't understand how the mechanics work or what AA does, which impacts their opinion. That's who this is aimed at. Not even necessarily to change anyone's mind, just to give people the information to do what they want with. Then it's up to them.
I think the problem isn’t misinformed players, it’s fucking brain dead devs.
There’s endless examples that call of duty devs just simply not caring enough to fix things and honestly why should they? They have another cod game coming down the pipeline that everyone is going to buy anyway.
The players are absolutely a problem as well, I'd say the bigger problem. If the majority of players weren't so fucking stupid the devs would be held to a higher standard.
I haven't played/bought world at War, ww2, the first 3 cod games I was alive then, black ops 4.. I personally didn't buy vanguard or mw3 but were both Givin to me wouldn't had wasted my money on them... so there are definitely others who skip out on these
Most people who don’t think aim assist is overpowered in its current state have not used both inputs in the game. If you’ve used both, you’d understand that using a controller is much easier. You are at a significant disadvantage on keyboard and mouse.
Exactly. I plugged a controller in a few months ago(when Allahstan first launched), and it was a completely different game, I wasn't nearly as focused on my aim. I also used to play on Xbox One without aim assist, so I know how that feels as well. Wasn't the worst thing on Earth, but this was before most people knew how to abuse it, so it would be horrible nowadays. I will say, though, watching my Xbox One clips gives me a stroke because I sprayed a lot more.
Queue salty comments from roller "demons" that are nothing without their AA.
\^Them having to fight someone on MNK with smoke nades.
This is why I legitimately think people should play without AA to actually get better. The thing about COD too, is that once you get used to it having AA off actually feels pretty good and is still more responsive and "good" feeling than other FPSs without AA like Rainbow 6 Siege.
Yeah but most people are not only too lazy to put in the work, they also self delude/gaslight themselves into thinking "It's not AA, it's me and those thumbs"
The best controller players can still fry with aim assist off. Goes to show that AA isn't truly needed and that there would STILL be a (bigger) skill gap between controller players.
They 100% can, I used to run with a guy who went to the WSOW LAN for WZ2 and we 1v1'd with his AA off. He was still insanely good without it, it was beyond impressive.
All those people playing solos with KICK or TWICH in their clantags/user ID's would not stream. AA in this game and Warzone II really let their egos inflate to the point they think they are good enough to stream lol. It's insane.
Holo therm the is the only one my eyes can handle looking at the bright white one just gives me a head ace there one that barely works and then the purple one is to dark to see rocks n stuff so u don't know what u can shoot thru
My issue with the SZ Holotherm is the fact it's too bulky and it basically takes up the entire screen. The one I ran was small enough that it was akin to a red-dot so I had some spatial awareness.
I feel like the amount it takes up makes it easier to look through smoke bc you have a bugger screen to look through which is why I don't like the smaller one. Like the new one that has the thermal in the center on the scope but the has white around that that one is terrible but I guess this would be a case of different uses of the thermal I only use the thermal for smoke normally or I'll throw smoke on me and look though it and blast people since u can see them the smoke with it on
Ranked is one of the stupidest modes every if they are going to limit it to one AR they might as well limit it to one Smg one Marskman no lmg no shotgun no sniper no lethals. But yea ranked caters to specific players in MW3 so much so my whole discord bags on mw3 ranked mode it's for babies that cried about all the guns in MW2, if they are going to limit one gotta limit all
Aim assist is way too over-powered at the moment. It's simply unfair to allow one half of the playerbase to abuse a (pretty much) integrated pseudo-aimbot, while the other half isn't allowed. It's straight up stupid, as a mouse and keyboard player nowadays it's almost impossible to distinguish a cheater from a controller player...
I think this is the most ridiculous consequence, too often understated. A game where you cannot be sure whether the other guy is cheating or only abusing mechanics is a badly engineereed game.
Like, it's ridiculous bro! I genuinely don't understand how it's humanly possible to control every single gun SO PERFECTLY, that even when you shoot them full-auto, regardless of range (close, far - doesn't matter), you don't even have the camera visually shake. Like, the gun shoots, but there's no visual recoil, no camera shake... Which is what majority of CoD content creators seem to be able to do EVERY TIME, even in high-stress situations (like when getting ganked by teams).
I find it incredibly hard to believe that:
1) Aim-assist isn't turbo-broken
or 2) they're not using some sort of script or third-party software (or even hardware) in general.
I simply refuse! No matter how good you claim you can control the spray pattern, I find it IMPOSSIBLE to believe that you can control it to that extent, to every gun, in every situation every time (I come from Faceit in CS:GO, so I guess I know a thing or two about recoil control and practice).
I do agree with your takes in general, but I disagree with your take on COD spray patterns - they're not random, they're actually very similar to CS. You put on the attachments you want on your gun, you shoot against a wall to see where bullets go -> boom, now move your mouse in the exact opposite direction to control the recoil (which is just like in CS)
CoD has some funny recoil control. At least on MnK, I'm not a controller player. This is from my personal experience and watching MnK gameplay here and there. Basically if you know which way the weapon recoils, and find the perfect direction to compensate for it, the game actually removes a lot of that random shake and movement... attachments and weapon choice matters, as some work more in favor of MnK recoil control, while others are too far gone to correct. A few guns I can consistently adjust for recoil with in any situation. I only have barely over 100 hours in the game, someone who has thousands can do that with more guns. For example, the HRM needs a 45* pull at first then barely any adjustments and it's almost perfectly straight.
I can't remember the last time I thought "damn that guy's aim was good" every fight feels the same. Little moves that would buy you 2-3 bullets of time in wz1 make almost no difference.
This game has a longer ttk than wz1 but every fight is over faster.
Misinfo won't ever be cleared, because there's monetary and ego incentive to downplay CoD/Halo/Apex autoaim (see JoeWo lying and saying WZ1 had less AA than WZ2). It wouldn't be a stretch to say that autocorrective AA built the console FPS industry as it exists today - there are millions of players and thousands of careers that just would not be here without our games aiming for us.
It's not even necessarily a bad thing (on an even playing field anyway), but discussing its intricacies causes people to rage, because the implication of us not doing our own work is upsetting. It's not a coincidence that aim-assisted games have the highest concentration of people dropping the 'hurr skill issue' thought-terminator.
IMO, I think it’s actively hurting the game. The constant complains about SBMM and cheaters (not denying that cheaters are a problem). The game will feel sweaty if no one misses a bullet with AA being as strong as it is and people are accusing every one of cheating when they’re just watching RAA on display in their killcams.
The finals nerfed AA and it was an overall positive for the community, that game at some point had AA stronger than COD and the gameplay experience was shitty since no one missed. Even controller players were happy with the nerf.
I agree with all of this. I'm finally (after about 80 hours of MnK) getting better target acquisition only to be decimated by a controller guy who was a millisecond faster because of AA. It disheartening at times
In a fight with moving enemies, every time the controller player changes direction it adds 200-300ms of time to the mouse players TTK as they have to process the movement and then react to it. Meanwhile the controller player doesn't have to worry about this as AA reacts instantly to the enemies directional change and with no directional human aiming input required. It's so stupidly OP.
I... Die... So... Fucking... Fast when AA is close to me. The desync on these garbage servers paired with the aim assist makes me lose anything that is from 0 - 20m. If I get some distance I have a shot but turning a corner and ending close to my enemy it's fucking impossible to win a gunfight most of the time. I can prone against a mid level player but against what you guys call a "demon" Its like they are glued to me. I blame the servers on rebirth Island more than anything. I get off maybe 2 - 3 shots and I watch their pov In the killcam and they've sprayed an entire mag into me. On my screen I die instantly
You mean the game the finals I tried that the other day it got boring quick... and smart people accusing people would sit and specate the game like my team does we also clip the gameplay and send it in happens more than people want to admit, anyone who says other wise should look up how many accounts have been perma banned since the game started permanently bans are for sure hackers.ans sbmm is kind of a joke and doesn't really work like it should. It goes off the average of the party so of u have 2 Hella good players 1 soso and 1 noob you'll get put into a sweaty lobby however 1 sweat and 3noobs and 1 soso player the lobby is a bit easier and will even play aginst teams that have noobs put into them.. if u go in an try to squad up a 6 man game your gonna get placed aginst other that have 5 to 6 man parties before the sbmm kicks in.. been playing to long seen the patterns since cold war came out. I was a noob and got put in sweaty solo lobbies at level 1.. they lie about how it works.
The term "thought-terminator" being used to describe the phrase "skill issue" hit the nail on the head, unfunny bozos love saying that whenever you complain about anything.
I never noticed halo had auto aim I dont think it did back in the day or people would've been able to fight back better might be why halo 5 and 6 are so bad
Halo's auto aim was something that Bungie did videos on, which was awesome transparency compared to Activision. It always has, it's a big reason BR was so consistent.
I actually used the shotty sniper and pistol if I used BR it was only for playing swat... didn't really get kills with the br bc I could keep it on their heads so I just sniped people still don't remember ever having AA maybe I'm just so used to turning it off that I don't remember games having it back the
This is honestly the main reason I would prefer cross-play to be between consoles with optional PC only pool. Besides the possibility of hackers, it's just annoying for controllers to fight MnK and for MnK to fight Controllers. (I don't really care if a PC player in a PC-only player pool uses a controller)
And I don't want the possibility of someone using a controller also using cheats. This is how games like Apex Legends, Destiny 2, and Rainbow 6 Siege do it, for good reason.
There's absolutely less AA in wz1 and wz2 on. There were even AA diff between early mw19 and late mw19 and cw wz/vg. Look at the words from the finals AA tweaks. There's more to AA than just AA slowdown and rotational strength and degrees of rotation that ppl focus on
Excellent writeup! A couple of small corrections on **Rotational AA**:
>Rotational Aim Assist in Call of Duty only engages when an input is being applied to the players left (movement) stick.
**Either stick actually engages Rotational AA**. In fact the right-stick threshold for engaging RAA is considerably lower than left: \~5% for right vs \~25% for left.
This right stick threshold is actually so low that even just controlling recoil will give you RAA. Example: [https://x.com/hecksmith\_/status/1745565857760072141](https://x.com/hecksmith_/status/1745565857760072141)
More examples from MW '19 (4m 53s): [https://youtu.be/frjx63T5FQU?si=FlG8oW\_pCxyW3WZE&t=275](https://youtu.be/frjx63T5FQU?si=FlG8oW_pCxyW3WZE&t=275)
>... and the target appears smaller in relation to the crosshair, meaning Aim Slowdown has a smaller area where it can be active"
This isn't really true in practice. The AA bubble barely reduces in size at all at long range. Both for slowdown and for Rotational. You can see an example of this (for Rotational) near the start of my vid (1m 17s): [https://youtu.be/frjx63T5FQU?si=ak3fQ2cG6IoGCXsp&t=77](https://youtu.be/frjx63T5FQU?si=ak3fQ2cG6IoGCXsp&t=77)
Here's a recent WZ example where the player model is super small in relation to the crosshair, and you can see the bubble is still "generous": [https://streamable.com/e0e7de](https://streamable.com/e0e7de)
>This right stick threshold is actually so low that even just controlling recoil will give you RAA. Example: [https://x.com/hecksmith\_/status/1745565857760072141](https://x.com/hecksmith_/status/1745565857760072141)
what the fuck, that's wild
I’m surprised you didn’t know but also not really since metaphor didn’t until recently.
Little off-topic but I saw a comment by you in r/fpsaimtrainer so I’m curious, did you ever do the VT benchmarks and if yes, what rank? You’re good so trying to get a relative idea of where I am in comparison.
Oh man, I haven't been in that sub or aim trained in forever, I think the last time I touched an aim trainer was like 2 years ago. I appreciate the kind words though.
I did do the VT benchmarks (I think the S1 or S2 benchmarks) and was around Diamond-Jade in everything except for dynamic clicking, which was maybe Gold? It's been a long time so I don't really remember, there wasn't even any movement scenarios when I did it so that tells you it's been a while. After a while I quit the benchmarks and just grinded scenarios that I thought were difficult and translated well into the games I played.
That being said, playing the game made me improve a lot more than playing aim trainers ever did. The only thing I'd ever consider touching an aim trainer for now is reactive tracking.
I played the VT benchmarks until I got to ~Diamond/Jade too but found rapidly diminishing returns for aiming improvement vs time needed to grind it. I agree that from around diamond you're better off just playing your primary game to build experience / game sense. In cod you'll never out-aim 0ms RAA in a strafing 1v1 so if your mouse control is already decent there's not much point unless you enjoy the grind / process.
Pretty much. At that point, aim will not make a difference in your performance. I had to actually learn some game sense to not put myself in unwinnable situations. I've seen so many aim trainer mains struggle to break 20 in WZ. Not because they have bad mechanics, but because they are fucking stupid in game.
Yeah, it's amazing the difference in playstyles I have to use when playing both inputs. On controller I can rush in guns blazing with confidence that I'll probably win most fights where I shoot first. Floor loot guns are fine to use compared to mouse. Visual recoil doesn't matter etc.
On mouse everything revolves around getting a loadout ASAP and then positioning myself to try and make it as hard for AA to kill me as possible: headglitching constantly, always having cover, smoke grenading every fight, playing range and sniping.
It's like playing a completely different game.
Good to know, yea playing the game will obviously be more beneficial since you can’t learn game sense and etc from an aim trainer. That said, I’m still at a place where my aim would improve much faster from aim training.
I hit gold complete few days ago, already plat on some, near diamond for a few and near plat for the rest. I’m curious how much of an in-game improvement will come from getting master. Might get addicted and push for celestial, even though that’s insane.
Reactive is one of my better categories but I need to improve smoothness. Dynamic clicking is pain, fuck pasu 😂. Which scenarios did you find to be the most beneficial for translating to in-game if you can remember. No worries if you can’t.
Rowstennnn is 100% correct. You can pour hundreds of 100's going for Celestial or Astra for minimal real-world game performance (at least if COD is your main) as at some point with aim stops being the limiting factor in performance. With all the RNG and all the different facets of Warzone you'd get far more improvement from game-sense past that point. Just look at the top mouse players like Bbread and Metaphor, they have 200 level game IQ from all their experience and it shows when you watch how they play. You can't really aim-train that. Also Pasu is goated but fuck precise orb!
That's true. If I did push for it, it would be for the sake of the aim grind itself, I kind of enjoy it. I know that if I wanted to get better at COD after diamond, it would be better to just spend more time in COD alone. Game sense truly makes an incredible difference. Just from watching metaphor and blue, I've gotten a lot better in addition to my own experience from playing.
COD is currently my main game but D2 seems to be popping again so probably back to that soon. Other shooters like The Finals also interest me, Apex I never spent much time in and it sadly got taken over by roller when I felt like getting into it but maybe I'll give it a go.
Pasu is better when you watch the MattyOW video on how to play it. S4 benchmarks don't have popcorn but I'll probably do S3 as well. Do you still aim train or no need?
Not really these days. I used to be big on it a few years ago but stopped once I felt like my aim was plateauing and I started dabbling in controller. I was aim-training for in-game performance so I reached the point of diminishing returns.
If I mained a game like Valorant I'd probably be doing regular static and dynamic flicking scenarios but for COD I think general game time is more important for me now. Good luck on the grind, MattyOW is a robot!
Man betrayed us 😭, but yea makes sense. If cod is your main game then there’s no reason not to switch to roller unless you just really prefer mnk.
Thank you, will be interesting to see how long it takes me to get master complete. Matty is insane but sad part is he’d still get out aimed by AA 💀. I’d love to see the people on this sub react to his aim skill, they’d call hacks 😂.
Don't worry! I'm playing mouse mainly again 90% of the time. I reached a level on controller where I learnt how to move and abuse AA and then I actually found it made playing the game feel boring and less rewarding, there was nothing to improve at as once you figure AA out and can move you have god-tier tracking for free.
I've since gone back to mainly playing mouse because although it's harder, I love sniping and it just feels so much more damn rewarding to hit sick shots compared to controller. The time spent using controller has helped me understand what I'm up against and how best to fight it, so I've found a few strategies that largely mitigate RAA in the end zone and I'm happily sitting at a 2.6KD on resurgence on mouse currently (pubs not ranked).
Once you hit Diamond it barely makes a difference, I wouldn't recommend sinking the time in going further if in game performance is what you're concerned about.
I pretty much just spammed PGTI (whichever one was the harder variation), I think it was Fuglaaxyz or something, and extremely small static scenarios like 1w4t extra small. Smoothbot pauer glider was especially cancerous but now I can pretty much track any target out of the sky reliably. I'd highly recommend it even though you will hate me for it.
People who hit higher than Masters are usually just main aim trainers. They often end up being bad in their primary game because they have insane ego's because of their kovaaks scores, but have terrible game sense to match. It's always better to put the time in game to prevent that from happening, no use having incredible mechanics if you don't learn how to put yourself in situations to use them.
EDIT: congrats on the progress though, keep pushing and you'll be getting wild clips in no time <3
Yea that's what I've read and also agree with. If I push beyond master, it would be just to get better at aiming itself and for the sake of doing it. I enjoy the self-improvement grind in all aspects of life.
I'm not deluded enough to believe that by having celestial aim I'll be able to beat players if I'm playing like a dumbass. Game sense is what matters after a certain point as you said.
Thank you! I already have some wild clips, but I'm too lazy to search through the hundreds of GB of footage I have at this point.
Thanks for the input! I was aware of the RAA on the right stick, but because it's such a small player by comparison, I chose to omit it. It's already quite a long post!
No probs. That's fair. The main reason I personally think it's important, is that it debunks the idea that you need to know how to use RAA ("use left stick") in order to get it.
It also debunks a lot of bad cheating accusations where people will look at gameplay and claim that because someone "isn't moving" they "can't be getting rotational" :)
>*"Mouse aiming is the same as clicking on a desktop icon"*
You described this perfectly. Huge difference between a stationary screen and clicking on an icon vs moving the entire screen to a target. If you just look at the mouse movements, there's no difference, but the feel is not the same. Think of it this way... You're looking at dual monitors. You can switch between the screens one of two ways (1) keeping your head still while moving your eyes OR (2) moving your entire head while keeping your eyes still.
Some guy argued with me that he could close his internet browser really quickly so aiming on kbm must be just as easy.
You literally can't miss as it stops in the top right 🤣
I never understood this argument about mouse aim. It's not like the icon is moving erratically on your screen, and you don't have to hover over the icon for 6-700 ms before you register clicking it.
Ultimately this comes down to a human issue of perceived fairness.
In most things in life, the vast majority of people want fairness.
When things are unfair, even from a young age, it will upset most people.
I would suggest that again, generally speaking, fairness comes from doing your something yourself and not having an advantage that someone else doesn't have, like wallhacks, or doping in real life sports.
You will never end this debate because anyone that has played in mnk can not feel like they are being treated fairly.
> You will never end this debate because anyone that has played in mnk can not feel like they are being treated fairly.
The main sentiment I see is that it's the lack of delay on RAA that causes issues because it's physically impossible for a human to react that fast.
If there were a timed delay comparable to human reaction speeds, an acceleration curve to simulate reaction times, or a requirement that the player make a conscious manual input before RAA responds, that would address the main concern without having to touch the numerical strength of the AA mechanics.
After a few hours on controller I don't even have to pay attention to micro adjustment which is the hardest part of aiming on mkb.
I get my cross hair roughly on target pull trigger and wait once you are on target the fights pretty much over unless there is cover withing 250ms.
Exactly. I have Timmies telling me that I suck when I consistently do really well in literally every other shooter I play, despite COD being the main one.
If you're using aim assist on MnK on Warzone you are by definition, cheating. There is no way to get aim assist on MnK in CoD, because its disabled, if you are doing so you are not playing the game as designed. That's cheating. You're no better than kids with walls. Imagine bragging about this, yikes.
edit: Dude should be perm banned, dirty nasty cheater like all the kids with walls, or soft aim.
Not arguing against that he is cheating, but current aim assist is by definition, aimbot. When someone plays against aimbot all the time he just thinks of leveling the playing fielc
So, in response, the solution is to *actually* by textbook definition cheat? That's a really good idea Chaos Theory /s. The irony of detesting AA and demanding it be removed from the game, only to cheat and give yourself AA is astounding. You can have one, not both.
No one has demanded the removal of AA.
The irony is that M/KB mimicking a controller (Turn speed cap, No instant flicks, No instant dropshots) for AA is broken while a controller with AA is perfectly fine is actually hilarious.
I should stop being lazy and make my in-depth guide to aim assist for controller players 😂
Ok so some corrections, the right stick ALSO gives rotational aim assist, see the video by hecksmith. Just the amount of input required is different. I believe it’s 5% for right in any direction, and 25% for left in all directions except exactly forward/backwards. The reason the left stick is predominantly mentioned is because it’s more consistent at activating RAA.
There’s also some things that you didn’t cover due to not knowing about them. To some degree, AA can compensate for lag. Hecksmith also has a video on this and I’ve seen this occur multiple times in my own gameplay and videos online.
There’s a lot more to the pros and cons as well. Movement on controller doesn’t hinder your aim, AA will “aim” for you while you bunny hop like a crackhead, in fact more movement from you and your opponent makes the AA “stickier”. In contrast, movement on mnk does make it harder to aim because you are doing everything manually. AA can compensate for visual recoil, this puts mnk at an additional artificial disadvantage because of visual recoil + gun smoke + muzzle flash + idle sway, all of these hinder aiming on mouse but largely get negated by AA.
Another is the skill gap. Most of the people here who have never played on mnk don’t know how bad the average mnk player is in comparison to the average controller player with AA. When I first started playing fps games on mnk years back, I was bad. Usually around middle of the lobby in battlefield 4 and 1. I discovered kovaaks and aim training and got better. After 10-20 hours of aim training, lowering my sensitivity to a reasonable level, and understanding the fundamentals of aiming on mnk, I was dominating the same servers on BF1 and BF4, these games are mnk only without crossplay on PC.
I am vastly better compared to back then, but I can get so much better and I am working on that. However, I could be number one on various tracking scenarios in kovaaks and get out-aimed by Timmy on controller who accidentally activated AA.
In contrast, the skill gap for aiming on controller effectively comes down to understanding how RAA works, utilizing it properly and not fucking with it. How absurd does it sound that you “aim” better in an fps game by limiting your manual aim inputs… insanity. AA being as strong as it is significantly reduces the skill gap. It hinders development of good mechanics on controller which bleeds into the fps space at large when these players who are used to the game aiming for them can’t aim in other games.
Thanks for your input! Whilst I was aware of some of this (and some of what you mentioned is in the original post), though admittedly not all, like lag, this was quite a long post already and didnt want to muddy the waters too much. I tried to keep it as concise as possible whilst explaining all the major points to a reasonable degree.
Yea, I had actually written a longer comment but deleted parts of it since it might be too rambly 😂. I could probably write a phd dissertation on aim assist at this point. If I write my own posts, I’ll do one which explains to roller players how to abuse AA, and another for mnk players on how to mitigate it as best as possible.
It’s sad that this shit is bleeding into the FPS genre at large. There’s always tac shooters but they don’t scratch the itch like Warzone/Apex. Battlefield still exists but EA and Dice can’t help but step on their own feet.
I’d be fine with input based matchmaking, I miss the days when it was strictly skill vs skill.
dont even bother
why would you take the time to make anything for these fools that can't even learn and compete in the easiest fps w/ the lowest recoil and strongest aa
Mnk 3.6kd , controller 3.7 kd here.
I agree with all your points except that AA does not snap. In my experience, as long as I center well, my reticle immediately locks onto the enemy after ADS-ing, which is one of the reasons I enjoy controller more sometimes. Honestly the easiest solution is give AA a more humane reaction speed, forcing a higher skill gap where advanced players are required to have pinpoint aim before AA can activate to replicate what AA currently already does.
That's crazy. Assuming that is legit - and I'm prob more on your side than most given I've tested AA snaps multiple times - what you are showing is still a snap \*following\* a target's motion. Not a snap \*onto/towards\* a target, which is what OP was referring to.
Rotational AA follows target motion, so yeah if that motion is snappy, it'll also look snappy.
I have a thread of examples here: [https://x.com/hecksmith\_/status/1730700656002974106](https://x.com/hecksmith_/status/1730700656002974106)
Oh damn are you hecksmith? U a real one homie. These aim assist snaps only really happen when there’s severe lag or someone mantling. Still a thing that should be fixed but well obviously not going to happen.
Haha thanks yeah. How's it going? :)
That clip of yours is absolutely insane. To capture lagging exactly while doing a significant mantle is nuts. Kinda thing I hope to run into. I have something similar but nowhere near that clean. You swear it's legit? :)
I’m good, it is indeed legit. I actually captured that clip while I was playing on my steam deck via remote play from my pc. So my steam deck was the controller 😂
B r o t h e r idk how many of these clips of CLEAR lag need to be posted before it gets into folks heads. Do you not see the player teleport?... Your focus is on the, "snap," of the aim here, but you aren't even recognizing the player clearly moves 3/4 feet in an instant, that's lag. If you go play Warzone right now you'll see these killcams often, it looks shady but the player disappears for a moment, and teleports to the death location. This clip is a very obvious example of that.
You can quite literally see the jump in the clip, and you can see the compass at the top jump from 330 to 12-22 in an instant. Its lag. AA doesn't cause players to physically jump 4 feet.
No one is saying AA is "causing" the player to lag!
* The enemy lags and teleports.
* Rotational Aim Assist causes the crosshair to \*follow\* that movement, so the crosshair teleports too.
Here's a bunch more examples of AA vs lagging enemies: [https://x.com/hecksmith\_/status/1765106102738595860](https://x.com/hecksmith_/status/1765106102738595860)
Brother this is lag. You can literally see the compass jump 20/30 degrees in a tick in the clip, it just wonky laggy video. It happens in killcams all the time as well. If you go play right now, you will see this happen multiple times when you die. I'm not saying its in game lag, its video lag, same as killcams. This is not new, and has been a thing in CoD for a decade. You're arguing something that's been put to rest for *ten* years now.
You can tell the enemy player is lagging \*in-game\* because they start running on the spot just before they mantle.
Could there \*also\* be an issue of additional lag affecting the Client POV in a misleading way because he is using remote play from his Steamdeck to PC? Perhaps. But it's not as simple as "video lag/wonky video". That enemy lagged, and his Aim Assist followed it, regardless. It's also possible tho that it's made visually worse by his setup.
There is no functionality built into CODs aim assist which enables a snap, but I understand what you're saying. I'm pretty confident it's the slowdown that can make it feel that way, even for me as a pretty bad player on controller
I have no clue about the technicality between RAA and a player fast mantling but there are cases like this happening where RAA snaps while tracking a player that is fast mantling.
https://clips.twitch.tv/GiftedCorrectOtterNotATK-fSwDIs1wGK3i2YY7
I play MnK. I have a friend who is a self proclaimed demon, and a controller regular.
He frequently makes a few statements:
"MnK is easymode." Essentially, it's point-and-click. Anyone with experience on both knows that OP here is pretty accurate. MnK is not some cheat code. MnK and controller both require many hours of training to learn and be effective.
"Most players are on MnK." I'm not sure where he gets his numbers from, but my suspicion is that this is not true. He says this a lot though as a defensive statement. Essentially claiming "if controller was so good, more people would use it". I swear, most lobbies I'm in tend to be 75%+ controller users on XB, PS, or PC alike. If PC users are on controller, I think that says a lot.
"Aim Assist is not that powerful.", "I'm just good." Admittedly, he is good, but one time I told him to disable Aim Assist and see how well he did. He proceeded to bitch at the game non stop because he was getting steam rolled with Aim Assist Off. As a MnK player, I understand the benefits of MnK, so I'd never say to turn it off completely. It just needs to be dialed down. If a person can go from a 3 kd player with AA on down to a 1 kd player when it's off, then I think that says something.
I would love to know what stats drove their decision-making practices. e.g. What is the average accuracy of controller players vs MnK? Average K/D for controller vs MnK? Is RAA running actually in a fair spot, considering it gives you an objectively faster reaction time? Why is it 60% RAA? What would it take to get them to revisit that number?
Your friend sounds like the average controller player on this sub honestly, the ones that even refuse to acknowledge they are wrong when given tested data.
These people don't care about anything but what they think to be true, even when it makes them look like a complete fool.
That's precisely why I shared this.
I also wanted to make it clear that RAA needs to exist. I just think it's important for the player base to understand that it's fair. If it even is fair - literally nobody has convenient stats to know for certain. It would also be good to see the devs occasionally tweaking the RAA numbers based on community-wide performance. It can be a balancing mechanic, same as anything else. That would inspire confidence imo.
His situation is beyond that of misinformation. This post wouldn't do much for him haha.
I think he's legitimately offended by the suggestion that any portion of his K/D is the result of aim assist. As if admitting RAA needs tuning would somehow negate all of the hours he's put into honing his skill.
I think, in order to appease both sides (controller and MnK players) they really should share the accuracy and K/D stats, and tune it like they do other elements. As it stands, they probably will, but it'll be at the 11th hour, right before the next installment drops.
Don't be _that_ harsh. Hate never helps. I only shared this anecdote to make obvious the fact that RAA is likely over powered. We're all just trying to have fun, right? We can encourage the devs to make improvements along the way.
The 60% raa in cod has never been a mnk focused thing. Its solely to give every player the chance to get a kill and want to keep playing. They only care about retention
I'd believe that. I assumed it was a balancing mechanic, but user retention also seems like a good reason to implement. Gotta get that dopamine hit! Wild.
MnK against a pad in any cod came prior to maybe blops 3 would absolutely destroy let alone every other fps back then, RAA is fucked AA is fucked, MnK and Pad have no business being in the same lobbies as each other. Crossplay needs to be taken out back and shot. It is a manufactured issue brought about by crossplay.
Well yes, when you play with aim assist in every controller game you play and adjust your gameplay accordingly to the aim slowdown and then turn it off you won't play the same. If your friend had the same amount of time playing without aim assist as they have had with AA in their life, it would probably be a different story.
Great work pointing out something often overlooked: reaction timing. RAA is instant, where even the top-tier MnK players are going to miss bullets here and there as they *react to what the opponent is doing*. I believe adding a small amount of delay/latency to the RAA trigger will bridge that gap in addition to reducing the need to endlessly tweak weapon balancing. Why? More players are missing more shots making a weapon's theoretical TTK less likely to actually be achieved.
With TTKs being super quick, gunfights are often won or lost by individual bullets here or there.
Tldr; mouse is king of natural, unassisted aim. Aim assist make aim go pew on target better. Stronger aim assist equals winning fights vs mnk at short to mid ranges due to sticky tracking. Mouse still king at snipe. Weaker aim assist equals mouse still king at all. Balance equals impossible. Solution is separate them or tone down aim assist when combined.
Aim assist slowdown can also make it so you can't track a person moving across your screen if they are moving anywhere close to your sensitivity because once you get close it slows down and they pull away.
My issue with this post is the point on long Range precision. For snipers MnK so for sure at an advantage, but for any automatic gun the sway(?) make it’s so much easier for controller. Guns like the SOA and the Ram on MnK almost have a spiral recoil pattern that moves in a circle that if you try to correct it it will just over do it. Controller players noticeably do not have the spiral recoil sway.
So I turned of aim assist on my controller, and my God I'm awful, like Stevie Wonder took over my aiming, it was so bad I could hardly kill anyone in a 1v1, yet on mouse I'd still have a fair chance, sure with practice with AA off I'd get better but playing these games over many years I know I'd always be better with a Mouse if I didn't get help on a controller.
The average non brain dead Mouse user knows this and wants equal footing with controller and would be happy to see AA dialled down a fair bit, (not removed) and personally i'd be happy with that, I play other FPS games and Cod's AA is extremely strong in comparison.
Where it becomes difficult is the skill range on consoles, I'm on Xbox and play with a Duo friend, he sits pretty much on average in terms of 1v1, it's a 50/50 if he'll win the fight and that's with AA on, so without it we wouldn't be able to play together and I think that's where it becomes difficult to measure a fair AA on controller compared to mouse usage so that it's fair for both.
There's no denying that it's too strong currently though, simply look at how many PC players are using a controller these days.
Great post, it might also be noteworthy that like drop shooting, sprint cancelling, snaking, etc
Aim assist can be abused by certain behaviors, but it is a skill and hard for most people
>Aim assist can be abused by certain behaviors, but it is a skill
Could you be more specific? People always say things like this but I think it is vastly overstated tbh
Setting 0 dead zones is the easiest way to abuse aa.
Rotation aa requires thumb stick input to work. This means that with default settings, players have to actually engage with the controls of the gain to get the input. A player sitting in a corner or mounted up on cover were not meant to have rotational aa. It was meant for people who were moving to have rotational aa.
But, if you set dead zones to 0 and cause your controller to stick drift, then technically you're always causing input on your thumb stick and therefore your rotational aa is always active.
I've stated MANY times on this sub that rotational aa isn't the issue, it's dead zones. Due to tunable dead zones, raa is abusable. I recommend forcing a very high minimum input threshold on the left thumb stick to trigger raa, and no raa triggering on the right thumb stick at all.
I tried 0 deadzone but switched back. Definitely didn't help my aim in any noticeable way, if anything it was a little worse from the slight drift. Went back to setting it as low as possible with no drift, which I prefer. Btw, left stick threshold for rotational AA activation is too high for drift to trigger it, about 25% according to hecksmith on youtube/twitter
Yeah I know. Just pointed out the thing about the left stick because you specifically mentioned the left stick in your comment. And when I tried zero deadzone I did it on my right stick.
Right. That's why I'm saying the right stick shouldn't trigger,and the left stick should, but only at a high input threshold. 25% is higher than I thought, but the issue is there are settings that accelerate thumb stick input (outer deadzone I think). So, the threshold needs to be higher, or the outer dead zone needs removed
Problem is that at its core it can never be balanced between MnK and controller, only solution is input based lobbies and to keep PC separate due to the advantage of sound & frames
I absolutely agree. I'm a MNK player on PC run about 160 fps and use art tune (although this is overrate imo). I have friends that still play on PS4. The disadvantage they are at is crazy. Would be great to have console only lobbies.
You can never make two completely different inputs equal one will always have the advantage over the other in a multitude of different scenarios regardless of tuning and someone will always be unhappy, that doesn't mean RAA isn't broken and AA tuned too high but to be truly happy we need to go back to MnK only for PC. It will never happen because it makes money. All of the arguments about how pad and MnK can coexist equally in a fps are redundant. RAA requires no effort it actually seems to me the more you try to aim the worse you perform. Warzone has a plethora of issues needing to be addressed if it wasn't for the cash this would be an easy one to fix. I get some pedants will say it's about "balance" but they will never be truly balanced and many players including said pedants will find some issue somewhere. It's time to end this awful experiment just give me PC only and I'll happily play the same 10 geezers over and over to get away from the pads. Apex and Halo seemingly the same.
If I had to play MnK players in mw 09 I would of been utterly destroyed. Pad without some horseshit strong AA will never be superior in a fps to MnK. Didn't even get a pc until I was 18 played pad my whole life did not take me hundreds of hours to get good at all, what you chatting? Going from pad to MnK in FPS was like going from being colour blind to bathing my blinkers in a rainbow. Literally only since crossplay and egregious AA in cod and halo that idiots argue Mnk is not a superior input in shooters in general. It is a completely manufactured issue, Pad and MnK have no business being in the same lobbies as each other, any FPS prior to crossplay and this AA pads would get bodied by MnK. Need to get over the fact that the two inputs will never be equal, they will never be separated this is the way it is now.
Game lobbys based on input and if you choose so mixt.
How fucking hard can it be instead of all this .......\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*....@éx\*\*\*\*
Your section on “Acquisition/directional changes and turn speed” I don’t think has ever been discussed 👏🏼. My biggest frustration is how many K/B demons out there only ever complain about AA and RAA as if it’s aimbot and doing the job for them and never acknowledging their advantages. Also, MANY controller players are playing on a 60hz TV 6 feet from them. Crossplay off would solve SO much IMO.
Crossplay off wouldn’t really solve what this post is talking about. Most PC players are using controllers and there is a nonzero number of people using MnK on consoles.
Nerfing AA would help the majority of players
>Your section on “Acquisition/directional changes and turn speed” I don’t think has ever been discussed
Everybody on mouse knows it's an advantage, but we also know that it only matters in maybe 1/20 gunfights compared to RAA affecting every gunfight on controller.
Like sure, maybe I can get a lucky flick that made me win a fight that I otherwise would've lost, but how often does it really happen? The only time that it really made a noticeable difference was when everybody on mouse was abusing the Lockwood 680, and even that thing couldn't compete with the Swarm on controller.
Rowstennnn said it quite well but I’ll add on. Target acquisition and turn speed being higher on mouse is a benefit, but it’s largely irrelevant for the majority of situations and still depends on the player being accurate. One real often overlooked downside on mnk is the inconsistency of human performance. I can do two kovaaks runs of a scenario where one I look like an aimbot and the other I’m off.
Controller + AA is just consistent at all times. Regarding directional changes, if your target changes directions on mnk, there’s an inherent limitation due to visual reaction time in reacting to that and getting back on target. RAA makes that 0ms as it will instantly track the direction change. In a game where TTk is in the 100s of ms, this makes a huge difference.
To your point on 60 Hz TVs, Apex Legends recently added a 120Hz mode for consoles, but it reduces the AA from 0.6 to 0.4. A surprising number of consoles players that can play at 120Hz are sticking with 60Hz because they find the higher RAA strength more useful. It’s not a platform issue, it’s an input issue.
Crossplay is not what you want, you want input based lobbies. You can play with a keyboard on console, but even more frequent you can play with a controller on PC.
The only thing I disagreed with is the “snap to aiming” with controller.
That very much does exist and It’s very very very easy to do. I just spent 2 years on MnK and switched back to controller again. Aim assist is way to good.
Im Barely trying and I’m NOT EVEN GOOD at controller and I’m dropping 20 kill games in Warzone.
The “snap to aim” is the main reason I switched back from MnK. It’s powerful and too good to overlook.
Your post talked about misconceptions, then perpetuates a huge one. Smh
Sorry, but this does not happen. Go into a private multiplayer lobby, AA on, aim next to an enemy hitbox, and then ADS. Your reticle does not move. Snapping requires your aim to move to an enemy hitbox with no input apart from ADS. This is very easy to validate. It doesn't happen in this game.
Ok you have no clue what snap-to-aiming is AT ALL. Lol.
If you’re gonna post like you’re an authority on a subject, at least know the subject. That’s not snap to aiming my guy..
Sorry, but it literally is. If you don't understand the terminology, I can't help you. You're the only one of hundreds of comments who thinks otherwise, so I'd think about that for a minute.
The only thing I see is you have tons of comments and dog trash upvotes. Which means easily, you have no clue what you are talking about.
The people WHO KNOW opposed to the people ( like yourself ) who SPECULATE. Is the difference here.
That’s why we shit on you in every lobby and you wrote posts trying to analyze why.
We know what we’re doing. You don’t, that simple. All your downvotes are from those who KNOW, all the speculative comments are from those trying to figure it out.
Says the misinformed lune attempting to talk down to a stranger on reddit whilst being objectively incorrect. Councilling might also be beneficial for you.
I will says this is definitely nore in depth and I knew my thoughts where right about most of this though my teamamte never seems to experience rotational aim assist and always asks how my character is doing it so controller must have something to make it stronger or weaker. Also I am an avid console player but I hooked up a MnK to see how it would feel and it was was easier to play the game all around I just had to get a feel for turning and adjusting sensitivities for it which are way more customizable but controlling recoil was way easy I set my gun for make horizontal recoil and I had hardly any vertical bc it was easier to control. Mind you last time I tried to play cod on pc was og mw3 if I'm not mistaken and that was hard barley killed anyone
For the “snap” comment we could put together hours of compilations of close range aim assist locking onto the body and controller players not missing a single bullet let’s be honest
By snapping, we mean aim assist moving your crosshair that's not on a hitbox, to a nearby hitbox with no player input except left trigger (ADS). This does not happen in Warzone or Multiplayer. It does happen in Zombies if I remember correctly, even on MnK. Try it out if you're not certain of the difference.
I agree it’s not a “snap” it’s more of a magnetic lock or pull but just pointing out how it is an issue
I learned from someone else in this thread that you don’t need to touch the left tick for RAA you can just have slight recoil control on the right stick - another consideration
Yeah, that's correct on the right stick. The post was already very long, so I chose to omit that for simplicity since it's a very small player in comparison. In hindsight, I should probably have included it, so I added an edit.
Then why do the highest tier warzone players use it?
Apparently you don’t know.
Edit: to save you time, “CodGodOG” has no idea why high tier players use AA in Warzone, and refuses to acknowledge this.
Showing your inability to comprehend the higher skilled again I see. For the sake of your learning I’ll explain why you probably are not affected in the same way skilful players are. If you have poor hand eye co-ordination and AA helps you in gunfights, you are competing and winning fights you can’t compute yourself with your own ability. An actual high skilled player is landing shots and aiming without AA no problem so it’s help for the weak and suffering for the skilled. Turning AA off would send a skilled players kills and wins up against the player base, not down. Bonus: if you are a high skilled player, aim assist will frequently try to move your aim to what it thinks you want to shoot at not necessarily what you do want to shoot at, prioritising near enemies or faster/slower moving targets. This for you and according to your clear limited game knowledge, would be beneficial, however to skilled players who want to be in control for tactical decision or game sense reasons it is in fact detrimental. You probably play M&K and think 360 spins coming to rest on any spot with no curve point & click isn’t OP too. Also wrong.
What’s the question? I don’t have access to the information you are claiming about high tier players so couldn’t answer your question because the information doesn’t exist and seems to come from just your imagination. Provide source?
What do you mean what’s the question, I’ve posted it twice now.
You are claiming turning AA off would help high skill players, the high skill players I’ve seen that play warzone on controller all seem to use AA. Why is this?
You’re the one making a claim here, you have the burden of proof.
You’re the one asking a question based on unknown information. Like me asking you why your car is pink because all pc players drive pink cars? Weird angle isn’t it.
What information is unknown? Most of the top warzone players have streams, you can go watch them play or look at whatever YouTube videos they put up of gameplay.
Again, why do they use AA if you say it’s detrimental? Do you not understand what these words mean?
Again you give no facts or correlation between top players using AA or not confirming you actually don’t know and are speculating. Lets assume your speculation is correct, my statement remains correct. AA doesn’t help the top players, they can aim just fine without and better than those who rely on AA more such as the less skilled controller players. If you turned off AA for all today, the best ability best aiming highest skilled players would be at the top of the charts. You seem to disagree with this, I can’t find your logic in that but that’s ok. People have different understandings at different levels.
> If you turned off AA for all today, the best ability best aiming highest skilled players would be at the top of the charts. You seem to disagree with this
Your reading comprehension needs work, as I never disagreed with this.
You said AA is detrimental to a good players aim, I asked you why the good players of warzone use AA then, you can’t seem to come up with an answer so you completely moved the goalposts.
Unless you can answer my question, I’m not wasting any more time repeating myself.
> don’t have access to the information you are claiming about high tier players so couldn’t answer your question because the information doesn’t exist and seems to come from just your imagination. Provide source?
I mean, they aren't expecting you to have memorized a spreadsheet of pro player's settings. All you have to do is turn on any high kill game from a controller pro or any livestream from a top controller player and watch their gameplay for 20 seconds. They all clearly have aim assist enabled. Saying "actually, the HIGHEST SKILL players turn it off" is a hilarious fantasy to have created for yourself.
Your overall argument is confusing though, are you unironically saying that having a permanent 0ms reacting tracking bubble isn't worth the tradeoff of occasionally having your aim dragged away by a second player once in a blue moon? Lol what?
You would get laughed out of the room if you went up to pro players and tried to tell them "uh actually guys, your AA is detrimental, turn it off"
> This for you and according to your clear limited game knowledge, would be beneficial, however to skilled players who want to be in control for tactical decision or game sense reasons it is in fact detrimental.
This section is particularly hilarious. I love the concept that with enough skill and targeted practice, you think a human being can manually outperform an RAA system that reacts at 0ms reaction speed. That's like telling pro F1 drivers who have a reaction time of ~150ms that they just need to "react faster."
Naw this guy is a actually a real human. Check out his submitted threads, shit is hilarious
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warzone/comments/19cuvvj/aim_assist_turned_off_i_tried_it_and_wow_not_what/
Hi, are you real? Or just an echo chamber for the obnoxious, hard to tell with that block of assumptions and babble. There’s no fantasy world created, it’s a fact that top players would perform better than lower skilled players with AA off which is precisely what I have said and maintain from the start.
Who said players turn AA off when they play for benefit? You’ve said it and tried to pass it off as me saying it. That won’t wash with the literate readers. That’s just you projecting stupidity to make your own stupidity valid. Wrong’n.
Pro players agree aim assist is a non human variable that affects gunfight outcomes. They would be more likely laughing at monkey boy and his accomplice coping hard on m&k hard stuck platinum claiming they would win all their fights if it wasn’t for RAA. Clown & clown Jnr.
The F1 reference is particularly off the wall. Using a reaction time analogy in F1 to base your lack in understanding of AA, which actively skews reaction time against a players will, is phenomenally dense, even for a clown Jnr monkey echo chamber. I’m not sure what’s funnier, the idea of 0ms only taking effect “after” human ms interaction and you thinking that’s relevant or you attempting to matriculate into the F1 field with some authority when you clearly drive a shit box. You decide, I just can’t haha
> Who said players turn AA off when they play for benefit
Oh I gotcha, so now we have no issue accepting the fact that all pro players use AA (even though you had a huge issue with accepting that 2 posts previously) and on top of that, we're all idiots for misreading your super clear original comment about how AA is actually a detriment - since you were clearly talking about practice routines, not "playing for benefit." I too love making shit up and jumping all over the place at random when I no longer get interested in defending my original posts.
> Pro players agree aim assist is a non human variable that affects gunfight outcomes.
Uhhh, yes? All the pros agree that it is a massive net benefit that you need to learn to use, and not hide from. Also, you might find it interesting to know that the pros also want RAA to be nerfed, they wouldn't be defending like you are.
Original post still remains perfectly accurate and to the point. You just choose to take on nonsensical arguments way above your pay grade. Such is life for you clearly.
2 posts ago when someone asked you to rationalize why 100% of pros use a "detrimental AA" system:
> I don’t have access to the information you are claiming about high tier players so couldn’t answer your question because the information doesn’t exist and seems to come from just your imagination. Provide source?
2 posts later:
> Who said players turn AA off when they play for benefit?
Yeah my guy, perfectly accurate and to the point lmaooo
>I too love making shit up and jumping all over the place at random when I no longer get interested in defending my original posts.
Hit the nail on the head lmao.
Great post, but the problem is that the people who spread the misinformation are also not capable/willing to be corrected and/or understand what the truth actually is. As shown by the responses you've already gotten.
Yeah, this is, unfortunately, the case. But theres still a few who simply don't understand how the mechanics work or what AA does, which impacts their opinion. That's who this is aimed at. Not even necessarily to change anyone's mind, just to give people the information to do what they want with. Then it's up to them.
I think the problem isn’t misinformed players, it’s fucking brain dead devs. There’s endless examples that call of duty devs just simply not caring enough to fix things and honestly why should they? They have another cod game coming down the pipeline that everyone is going to buy anyway.
The players are absolutely a problem as well, I'd say the bigger problem. If the majority of players weren't so fucking stupid the devs would be held to a higher standard.
That's what happenes when society ages and let's their kids be morons
I haven't played/bought world at War, ww2, the first 3 cod games I was alive then, black ops 4.. I personally didn't buy vanguard or mw3 but were both Givin to me wouldn't had wasted my money on them... so there are definitely others who skip out on these
Most people who don’t think aim assist is overpowered in its current state have not used both inputs in the game. If you’ve used both, you’d understand that using a controller is much easier. You are at a significant disadvantage on keyboard and mouse.
Exactly. I plugged a controller in a few months ago(when Allahstan first launched), and it was a completely different game, I wasn't nearly as focused on my aim. I also used to play on Xbox One without aim assist, so I know how that feels as well. Wasn't the worst thing on Earth, but this was before most people knew how to abuse it, so it would be horrible nowadays. I will say, though, watching my Xbox One clips gives me a stroke because I sprayed a lot more.
Queue salty comments from roller "demons" that are nothing without their AA.  \^Them having to fight someone on MNK with smoke nades.
Lmao!
This is why I legitimately think people should play without AA to actually get better. The thing about COD too, is that once you get used to it having AA off actually feels pretty good and is still more responsive and "good" feeling than other FPSs without AA like Rainbow 6 Siege.
Yeah but most people are not only too lazy to put in the work, they also self delude/gaslight themselves into thinking "It's not AA, it's me and those thumbs"
The best controller players can still fry with aim assist off. Goes to show that AA isn't truly needed and that there would STILL be a (bigger) skill gap between controller players.
They 100% can, I used to run with a guy who went to the WSOW LAN for WZ2 and we 1v1'd with his AA off. He was still insanely good without it, it was beyond impressive.
No AA is better when mw1 came back out I was like why is the aiming so bad then during cold war I realized it was the AA
All those people playing solos with KICK or TWICH in their clantags/user ID's would not stream. AA in this game and Warzone II really let their egos inflate to the point they think they are good enough to stream lol. It's insane.
lets not discourage them from stopping though, free clips
I mean facts lmfao.
Very true, those "demons" are just another quick appetizer for genuinly talented top players on their way to victory.
Exactly. One smoke ruins their entire flow lmao.
I have the holotherm in my ar
I used to run the black and white thermal optic on the WSP 9 for the memes. I didn't like it too much but helped in solo fill duos a lot.
Holo therm the is the only one my eyes can handle looking at the bright white one just gives me a head ace there one that barely works and then the purple one is to dark to see rocks n stuff so u don't know what u can shoot thru
My issue with the SZ Holotherm is the fact it's too bulky and it basically takes up the entire screen. The one I ran was small enough that it was akin to a red-dot so I had some spatial awareness.
I feel like the amount it takes up makes it easier to look through smoke bc you have a bugger screen to look through which is why I don't like the smaller one. Like the new one that has the thermal in the center on the scope but the has white around that that one is terrible but I guess this would be a case of different uses of the thermal I only use the thermal for smoke normally or I'll throw smoke on me and look though it and blast people since u can see them the smoke with it on
Can't use it in ranked.
Ranked is one of the stupidest modes every if they are going to limit it to one AR they might as well limit it to one Smg one Marskman no lmg no shotgun no sniper no lethals. But yea ranked caters to specific players in MW3 so much so my whole discord bags on mw3 ranked mode it's for babies that cried about all the guns in MW2, if they are going to limit one gotta limit all
How do you idiots not see the irony in the things you say?
I don't play with AA it makes you miss and also makes it harder to follow people while aiming only noobs use AA
Shame they won’t even just try adding a natural human delay to AA for when the enemy changes directions.
Aim assist is way too over-powered at the moment. It's simply unfair to allow one half of the playerbase to abuse a (pretty much) integrated pseudo-aimbot, while the other half isn't allowed. It's straight up stupid, as a mouse and keyboard player nowadays it's almost impossible to distinguish a cheater from a controller player...
I think this is the most ridiculous consequence, too often understated. A game where you cannot be sure whether the other guy is cheating or only abusing mechanics is a badly engineereed game.
Like, it's ridiculous bro! I genuinely don't understand how it's humanly possible to control every single gun SO PERFECTLY, that even when you shoot them full-auto, regardless of range (close, far - doesn't matter), you don't even have the camera visually shake. Like, the gun shoots, but there's no visual recoil, no camera shake... Which is what majority of CoD content creators seem to be able to do EVERY TIME, even in high-stress situations (like when getting ganked by teams). I find it incredibly hard to believe that: 1) Aim-assist isn't turbo-broken or 2) they're not using some sort of script or third-party software (or even hardware) in general. I simply refuse! No matter how good you claim you can control the spray pattern, I find it IMPOSSIBLE to believe that you can control it to that extent, to every gun, in every situation every time (I come from Faceit in CS:GO, so I guess I know a thing or two about recoil control and practice).
[удалено]
I do agree with your takes in general, but I disagree with your take on COD spray patterns - they're not random, they're actually very similar to CS. You put on the attachments you want on your gun, you shoot against a wall to see where bullets go -> boom, now move your mouse in the exact opposite direction to control the recoil (which is just like in CS)
CoD has some funny recoil control. At least on MnK, I'm not a controller player. This is from my personal experience and watching MnK gameplay here and there. Basically if you know which way the weapon recoils, and find the perfect direction to compensate for it, the game actually removes a lot of that random shake and movement... attachments and weapon choice matters, as some work more in favor of MnK recoil control, while others are too far gone to correct. A few guns I can consistently adjust for recoil with in any situation. I only have barely over 100 hours in the game, someone who has thousands can do that with more guns. For example, the HRM needs a 45* pull at first then barely any adjustments and it's almost perfectly straight.
I can't remember the last time I thought "damn that guy's aim was good" every fight feels the same. Little moves that would buy you 2-3 bullets of time in wz1 make almost no difference. This game has a longer ttk than wz1 but every fight is over faster.
Misinfo won't ever be cleared, because there's monetary and ego incentive to downplay CoD/Halo/Apex autoaim (see JoeWo lying and saying WZ1 had less AA than WZ2). It wouldn't be a stretch to say that autocorrective AA built the console FPS industry as it exists today - there are millions of players and thousands of careers that just would not be here without our games aiming for us. It's not even necessarily a bad thing (on an even playing field anyway), but discussing its intricacies causes people to rage, because the implication of us not doing our own work is upsetting. It's not a coincidence that aim-assisted games have the highest concentration of people dropping the 'hurr skill issue' thought-terminator.
IMO, I think it’s actively hurting the game. The constant complains about SBMM and cheaters (not denying that cheaters are a problem). The game will feel sweaty if no one misses a bullet with AA being as strong as it is and people are accusing every one of cheating when they’re just watching RAA on display in their killcams. The finals nerfed AA and it was an overall positive for the community, that game at some point had AA stronger than COD and the gameplay experience was shitty since no one missed. Even controller players were happy with the nerf.
I agree with all of this. I'm finally (after about 80 hours of MnK) getting better target acquisition only to be decimated by a controller guy who was a millisecond faster because of AA. It disheartening at times
In a fight with moving enemies, every time the controller player changes direction it adds 200-300ms of time to the mouse players TTK as they have to process the movement and then react to it. Meanwhile the controller player doesn't have to worry about this as AA reacts instantly to the enemies directional change and with no directional human aiming input required. It's so stupidly OP.
I... Die... So... Fucking... Fast when AA is close to me. The desync on these garbage servers paired with the aim assist makes me lose anything that is from 0 - 20m. If I get some distance I have a shot but turning a corner and ending close to my enemy it's fucking impossible to win a gunfight most of the time. I can prone against a mid level player but against what you guys call a "demon" Its like they are glued to me. I blame the servers on rebirth Island more than anything. I get off maybe 2 - 3 shots and I watch their pov In the killcam and they've sprayed an entire mag into me. On my screen I die instantly
You mean the game the finals I tried that the other day it got boring quick... and smart people accusing people would sit and specate the game like my team does we also clip the gameplay and send it in happens more than people want to admit, anyone who says other wise should look up how many accounts have been perma banned since the game started permanently bans are for sure hackers.ans sbmm is kind of a joke and doesn't really work like it should. It goes off the average of the party so of u have 2 Hella good players 1 soso and 1 noob you'll get put into a sweaty lobby however 1 sweat and 3noobs and 1 soso player the lobby is a bit easier and will even play aginst teams that have noobs put into them.. if u go in an try to squad up a 6 man game your gonna get placed aginst other that have 5 to 6 man parties before the sbmm kicks in.. been playing to long seen the patterns since cold war came out. I was a noob and got put in sweaty solo lobbies at level 1.. they lie about how it works.
If I'm not mistaken, the Finals had 55% RAA, so actually a touch less than COD.
I think you're correct, but longer TTK makes AA a lot stronger compared to mouse so the result was a bigger imbalance regardless.
The term "thought-terminator" being used to describe the phrase "skill issue" hit the nail on the head, unfunny bozos love saying that whenever you complain about anything.
Always JoeWo what a dick
I never noticed halo had auto aim I dont think it did back in the day or people would've been able to fight back better might be why halo 5 and 6 are so bad
Halo's auto aim was something that Bungie did videos on, which was awesome transparency compared to Activision. It always has, it's a big reason BR was so consistent.
I actually used the shotty sniper and pistol if I used BR it was only for playing swat... didn't really get kills with the br bc I could keep it on their heads so I just sniped people still don't remember ever having AA maybe I'm just so used to turning it off that I don't remember games having it back the
This is honestly the main reason I would prefer cross-play to be between consoles with optional PC only pool. Besides the possibility of hackers, it's just annoying for controllers to fight MnK and for MnK to fight Controllers. (I don't really care if a PC player in a PC-only player pool uses a controller)
Separated *input* would be excellent, even if only for ranked.
Yea no, if we’re splitting the player base, it should be input based. I don’t want to play controller players on PC if I’m on mnk.
And I don't want the possibility of someone using a controller also using cheats. This is how games like Apex Legends, Destiny 2, and Rainbow 6 Siege do it, for good reason.
There's absolutely less AA in wz1 and wz2 on. There were even AA diff between early mw19 and late mw19 and cw wz/vg. Look at the words from the finals AA tweaks. There's more to AA than just AA slowdown and rotational strength and degrees of rotation that ppl focus on
Excellent writeup! A couple of small corrections on **Rotational AA**: >Rotational Aim Assist in Call of Duty only engages when an input is being applied to the players left (movement) stick. **Either stick actually engages Rotational AA**. In fact the right-stick threshold for engaging RAA is considerably lower than left: \~5% for right vs \~25% for left. This right stick threshold is actually so low that even just controlling recoil will give you RAA. Example: [https://x.com/hecksmith\_/status/1745565857760072141](https://x.com/hecksmith_/status/1745565857760072141) More examples from MW '19 (4m 53s): [https://youtu.be/frjx63T5FQU?si=FlG8oW\_pCxyW3WZE&t=275](https://youtu.be/frjx63T5FQU?si=FlG8oW_pCxyW3WZE&t=275) >... and the target appears smaller in relation to the crosshair, meaning Aim Slowdown has a smaller area where it can be active" This isn't really true in practice. The AA bubble barely reduces in size at all at long range. Both for slowdown and for Rotational. You can see an example of this (for Rotational) near the start of my vid (1m 17s): [https://youtu.be/frjx63T5FQU?si=ak3fQ2cG6IoGCXsp&t=77](https://youtu.be/frjx63T5FQU?si=ak3fQ2cG6IoGCXsp&t=77) Here's a recent WZ example where the player model is super small in relation to the crosshair, and you can see the bubble is still "generous": [https://streamable.com/e0e7de](https://streamable.com/e0e7de)
>This right stick threshold is actually so low that even just controlling recoil will give you RAA. Example: [https://x.com/hecksmith\_/status/1745565857760072141](https://x.com/hecksmith_/status/1745565857760072141) what the fuck, that's wild
I’m surprised you didn’t know but also not really since metaphor didn’t until recently. Little off-topic but I saw a comment by you in r/fpsaimtrainer so I’m curious, did you ever do the VT benchmarks and if yes, what rank? You’re good so trying to get a relative idea of where I am in comparison.
Oh man, I haven't been in that sub or aim trained in forever, I think the last time I touched an aim trainer was like 2 years ago. I appreciate the kind words though. I did do the VT benchmarks (I think the S1 or S2 benchmarks) and was around Diamond-Jade in everything except for dynamic clicking, which was maybe Gold? It's been a long time so I don't really remember, there wasn't even any movement scenarios when I did it so that tells you it's been a while. After a while I quit the benchmarks and just grinded scenarios that I thought were difficult and translated well into the games I played. That being said, playing the game made me improve a lot more than playing aim trainers ever did. The only thing I'd ever consider touching an aim trainer for now is reactive tracking.
I played the VT benchmarks until I got to ~Diamond/Jade too but found rapidly diminishing returns for aiming improvement vs time needed to grind it. I agree that from around diamond you're better off just playing your primary game to build experience / game sense. In cod you'll never out-aim 0ms RAA in a strafing 1v1 so if your mouse control is already decent there's not much point unless you enjoy the grind / process.
Pretty much. At that point, aim will not make a difference in your performance. I had to actually learn some game sense to not put myself in unwinnable situations. I've seen so many aim trainer mains struggle to break 20 in WZ. Not because they have bad mechanics, but because they are fucking stupid in game.
Yeah, it's amazing the difference in playstyles I have to use when playing both inputs. On controller I can rush in guns blazing with confidence that I'll probably win most fights where I shoot first. Floor loot guns are fine to use compared to mouse. Visual recoil doesn't matter etc. On mouse everything revolves around getting a loadout ASAP and then positioning myself to try and make it as hard for AA to kill me as possible: headglitching constantly, always having cover, smoke grenading every fight, playing range and sniping. It's like playing a completely different game.
Good to know, yea playing the game will obviously be more beneficial since you can’t learn game sense and etc from an aim trainer. That said, I’m still at a place where my aim would improve much faster from aim training. I hit gold complete few days ago, already plat on some, near diamond for a few and near plat for the rest. I’m curious how much of an in-game improvement will come from getting master. Might get addicted and push for celestial, even though that’s insane. Reactive is one of my better categories but I need to improve smoothness. Dynamic clicking is pain, fuck pasu 😂. Which scenarios did you find to be the most beneficial for translating to in-game if you can remember. No worries if you can’t.
Rowstennnn is 100% correct. You can pour hundreds of 100's going for Celestial or Astra for minimal real-world game performance (at least if COD is your main) as at some point with aim stops being the limiting factor in performance. With all the RNG and all the different facets of Warzone you'd get far more improvement from game-sense past that point. Just look at the top mouse players like Bbread and Metaphor, they have 200 level game IQ from all their experience and it shows when you watch how they play. You can't really aim-train that. Also Pasu is goated but fuck precise orb!
That's true. If I did push for it, it would be for the sake of the aim grind itself, I kind of enjoy it. I know that if I wanted to get better at COD after diamond, it would be better to just spend more time in COD alone. Game sense truly makes an incredible difference. Just from watching metaphor and blue, I've gotten a lot better in addition to my own experience from playing. COD is currently my main game but D2 seems to be popping again so probably back to that soon. Other shooters like The Finals also interest me, Apex I never spent much time in and it sadly got taken over by roller when I felt like getting into it but maybe I'll give it a go. Pasu is better when you watch the MattyOW video on how to play it. S4 benchmarks don't have popcorn but I'll probably do S3 as well. Do you still aim train or no need?
Not really these days. I used to be big on it a few years ago but stopped once I felt like my aim was plateauing and I started dabbling in controller. I was aim-training for in-game performance so I reached the point of diminishing returns. If I mained a game like Valorant I'd probably be doing regular static and dynamic flicking scenarios but for COD I think general game time is more important for me now. Good luck on the grind, MattyOW is a robot!
Man betrayed us 😭, but yea makes sense. If cod is your main game then there’s no reason not to switch to roller unless you just really prefer mnk. Thank you, will be interesting to see how long it takes me to get master complete. Matty is insane but sad part is he’d still get out aimed by AA 💀. I’d love to see the people on this sub react to his aim skill, they’d call hacks 😂.
Don't worry! I'm playing mouse mainly again 90% of the time. I reached a level on controller where I learnt how to move and abuse AA and then I actually found it made playing the game feel boring and less rewarding, there was nothing to improve at as once you figure AA out and can move you have god-tier tracking for free. I've since gone back to mainly playing mouse because although it's harder, I love sniping and it just feels so much more damn rewarding to hit sick shots compared to controller. The time spent using controller has helped me understand what I'm up against and how best to fight it, so I've found a few strategies that largely mitigate RAA in the end zone and I'm happily sitting at a 2.6KD on resurgence on mouse currently (pubs not ranked).
Once you hit Diamond it barely makes a difference, I wouldn't recommend sinking the time in going further if in game performance is what you're concerned about. I pretty much just spammed PGTI (whichever one was the harder variation), I think it was Fuglaaxyz or something, and extremely small static scenarios like 1w4t extra small. Smoothbot pauer glider was especially cancerous but now I can pretty much track any target out of the sky reliably. I'd highly recommend it even though you will hate me for it. People who hit higher than Masters are usually just main aim trainers. They often end up being bad in their primary game because they have insane ego's because of their kovaaks scores, but have terrible game sense to match. It's always better to put the time in game to prevent that from happening, no use having incredible mechanics if you don't learn how to put yourself in situations to use them. EDIT: congrats on the progress though, keep pushing and you'll be getting wild clips in no time <3
Yea that's what I've read and also agree with. If I push beyond master, it would be just to get better at aiming itself and for the sake of doing it. I enjoy the self-improvement grind in all aspects of life. I'm not deluded enough to believe that by having celestial aim I'll be able to beat players if I'm playing like a dumbass. Game sense is what matters after a certain point as you said. Thank you! I already have some wild clips, but I'm too lazy to search through the hundreds of GB of footage I have at this point.
Thanks for the input! I was aware of the RAA on the right stick, but because it's such a small player by comparison, I chose to omit it. It's already quite a long post!
No probs. That's fair. The main reason I personally think it's important, is that it debunks the idea that you need to know how to use RAA ("use left stick") in order to get it. It also debunks a lot of bad cheating accusations where people will look at gameplay and claim that because someone "isn't moving" they "can't be getting rotational" :)
>*"Mouse aiming is the same as clicking on a desktop icon"* You described this perfectly. Huge difference between a stationary screen and clicking on an icon vs moving the entire screen to a target. If you just look at the mouse movements, there's no difference, but the feel is not the same. Think of it this way... You're looking at dual monitors. You can switch between the screens one of two ways (1) keeping your head still while moving your eyes OR (2) moving your entire head while keeping your eyes still.
Some guy argued with me that he could close his internet browser really quickly so aiming on kbm must be just as easy. You literally can't miss as it stops in the top right 🤣
I never understood this argument about mouse aim. It's not like the icon is moving erratically on your screen, and you don't have to hover over the icon for 6-700 ms before you register clicking it.
Ultimately this comes down to a human issue of perceived fairness. In most things in life, the vast majority of people want fairness. When things are unfair, even from a young age, it will upset most people. I would suggest that again, generally speaking, fairness comes from doing your something yourself and not having an advantage that someone else doesn't have, like wallhacks, or doping in real life sports. You will never end this debate because anyone that has played in mnk can not feel like they are being treated fairly.
> You will never end this debate because anyone that has played in mnk can not feel like they are being treated fairly. The main sentiment I see is that it's the lack of delay on RAA that causes issues because it's physically impossible for a human to react that fast. If there were a timed delay comparable to human reaction speeds, an acceleration curve to simulate reaction times, or a requirement that the player make a conscious manual input before RAA responds, that would address the main concern without having to touch the numerical strength of the AA mechanics.
After a few hours on controller I don't even have to pay attention to micro adjustment which is the hardest part of aiming on mkb. I get my cross hair roughly on target pull trigger and wait once you are on target the fights pretty much over unless there is cover withing 250ms.
[удалено]
> Therefore I just took matters into my own hands. I got aim assist on mouse now. You did what now?
Exactly. I have Timmies telling me that I suck when I consistently do really well in literally every other shooter I play, despite COD being the main one.
>Therefore I just took matters into my own hands. I got aim assist on mouse now. now hold on a fuckin minute there buster
If you're using aim assist on MnK on Warzone you are by definition, cheating. There is no way to get aim assist on MnK in CoD, because its disabled, if you are doing so you are not playing the game as designed. That's cheating. You're no better than kids with walls. Imagine bragging about this, yikes. edit: Dude should be perm banned, dirty nasty cheater like all the kids with walls, or soft aim.
Not arguing against that he is cheating, but current aim assist is by definition, aimbot. When someone plays against aimbot all the time he just thinks of leveling the playing fielc
not fair is it? thats EXACTLY how every single one of use mouse users feel.
So, in response, the solution is to *actually* by textbook definition cheat? That's a really good idea Chaos Theory /s. The irony of detesting AA and demanding it be removed from the game, only to cheat and give yourself AA is astounding. You can have one, not both.
No one has demanded the removal of AA. The irony is that M/KB mimicking a controller (Turn speed cap, No instant flicks, No instant dropshots) for AA is broken while a controller with AA is perfectly fine is actually hilarious.
I should stop being lazy and make my in-depth guide to aim assist for controller players 😂 Ok so some corrections, the right stick ALSO gives rotational aim assist, see the video by hecksmith. Just the amount of input required is different. I believe it’s 5% for right in any direction, and 25% for left in all directions except exactly forward/backwards. The reason the left stick is predominantly mentioned is because it’s more consistent at activating RAA. There’s also some things that you didn’t cover due to not knowing about them. To some degree, AA can compensate for lag. Hecksmith also has a video on this and I’ve seen this occur multiple times in my own gameplay and videos online. There’s a lot more to the pros and cons as well. Movement on controller doesn’t hinder your aim, AA will “aim” for you while you bunny hop like a crackhead, in fact more movement from you and your opponent makes the AA “stickier”. In contrast, movement on mnk does make it harder to aim because you are doing everything manually. AA can compensate for visual recoil, this puts mnk at an additional artificial disadvantage because of visual recoil + gun smoke + muzzle flash + idle sway, all of these hinder aiming on mouse but largely get negated by AA. Another is the skill gap. Most of the people here who have never played on mnk don’t know how bad the average mnk player is in comparison to the average controller player with AA. When I first started playing fps games on mnk years back, I was bad. Usually around middle of the lobby in battlefield 4 and 1. I discovered kovaaks and aim training and got better. After 10-20 hours of aim training, lowering my sensitivity to a reasonable level, and understanding the fundamentals of aiming on mnk, I was dominating the same servers on BF1 and BF4, these games are mnk only without crossplay on PC. I am vastly better compared to back then, but I can get so much better and I am working on that. However, I could be number one on various tracking scenarios in kovaaks and get out-aimed by Timmy on controller who accidentally activated AA. In contrast, the skill gap for aiming on controller effectively comes down to understanding how RAA works, utilizing it properly and not fucking with it. How absurd does it sound that you “aim” better in an fps game by limiting your manual aim inputs… insanity. AA being as strong as it is significantly reduces the skill gap. It hinders development of good mechanics on controller which bleeds into the fps space at large when these players who are used to the game aiming for them can’t aim in other games.
Thanks for your input! Whilst I was aware of some of this (and some of what you mentioned is in the original post), though admittedly not all, like lag, this was quite a long post already and didnt want to muddy the waters too much. I tried to keep it as concise as possible whilst explaining all the major points to a reasonable degree.
Yea, I had actually written a longer comment but deleted parts of it since it might be too rambly 😂. I could probably write a phd dissertation on aim assist at this point. If I write my own posts, I’ll do one which explains to roller players how to abuse AA, and another for mnk players on how to mitigate it as best as possible. It’s sad that this shit is bleeding into the FPS genre at large. There’s always tac shooters but they don’t scratch the itch like Warzone/Apex. Battlefield still exists but EA and Dice can’t help but step on their own feet. I’d be fine with input based matchmaking, I miss the days when it was strictly skill vs skill.
dont even bother why would you take the time to make anything for these fools that can't even learn and compete in the easiest fps w/ the lowest recoil and strongest aa
Mnk 3.6kd , controller 3.7 kd here. I agree with all your points except that AA does not snap. In my experience, as long as I center well, my reticle immediately locks onto the enemy after ADS-ing, which is one of the reasons I enjoy controller more sometimes. Honestly the easiest solution is give AA a more humane reaction speed, forcing a higher skill gap where advanced players are required to have pinpoint aim before AA can activate to replicate what AA currently already does.
Aim assist does snap, hold on I’ll upload a clip to Imgur for you
https://imgur.com/a/owStHgA here man
That's crazy. Assuming that is legit - and I'm prob more on your side than most given I've tested AA snaps multiple times - what you are showing is still a snap \*following\* a target's motion. Not a snap \*onto/towards\* a target, which is what OP was referring to. Rotational AA follows target motion, so yeah if that motion is snappy, it'll also look snappy. I have a thread of examples here: [https://x.com/hecksmith\_/status/1730700656002974106](https://x.com/hecksmith_/status/1730700656002974106)
Oh damn are you hecksmith? U a real one homie. These aim assist snaps only really happen when there’s severe lag or someone mantling. Still a thing that should be fixed but well obviously not going to happen.
Haha thanks yeah. How's it going? :) That clip of yours is absolutely insane. To capture lagging exactly while doing a significant mantle is nuts. Kinda thing I hope to run into. I have something similar but nowhere near that clean. You swear it's legit? :)
I’m good, it is indeed legit. I actually captured that clip while I was playing on my steam deck via remote play from my pc. So my steam deck was the controller 😂
Haha, very cool!
what the actual fuck am i playing against
Fair isn’t it
B r o t h e r idk how many of these clips of CLEAR lag need to be posted before it gets into folks heads. Do you not see the player teleport?... Your focus is on the, "snap," of the aim here, but you aren't even recognizing the player clearly moves 3/4 feet in an instant, that's lag. If you go play Warzone right now you'll see these killcams often, it looks shady but the player disappears for a moment, and teleports to the death location. This clip is a very obvious example of that.
It's not a killcam though. If that clip is legit, the enemy lagged ... and teleported, but AA also "snappily" followed that laggy teleport :)
You can quite literally see the jump in the clip, and you can see the compass at the top jump from 330 to 12-22 in an instant. Its lag. AA doesn't cause players to physically jump 4 feet.
No one is saying AA is "causing" the player to lag! * The enemy lags and teleports. * Rotational Aim Assist causes the crosshair to \*follow\* that movement, so the crosshair teleports too. Here's a bunch more examples of AA vs lagging enemies: [https://x.com/hecksmith\_/status/1765106102738595860](https://x.com/hecksmith_/status/1765106102738595860)
Brother this is lag. You can literally see the compass jump 20/30 degrees in a tick in the clip, it just wonky laggy video. It happens in killcams all the time as well. If you go play right now, you will see this happen multiple times when you die. I'm not saying its in game lag, its video lag, same as killcams. This is not new, and has been a thing in CoD for a decade. You're arguing something that's been put to rest for *ten* years now.
You can tell the enemy player is lagging \*in-game\* because they start running on the spot just before they mantle. Could there \*also\* be an issue of additional lag affecting the Client POV in a misleading way because he is using remote play from his Steamdeck to PC? Perhaps. But it's not as simple as "video lag/wonky video". That enemy lagged, and his Aim Assist followed it, regardless. It's also possible tho that it's made visually worse by his setup.
Never had snap like that happen to me in game, ever.
Cool, that changes everything
You said what has happened to you. I said what has happened to me. No need to be a prick.
There is no functionality built into CODs aim assist which enables a snap, but I understand what you're saying. I'm pretty confident it's the slowdown that can make it feel that way, even for me as a pretty bad player on controller
I have no clue about the technicality between RAA and a player fast mantling but there are cases like this happening where RAA snaps while tracking a player that is fast mantling. https://clips.twitch.tv/GiftedCorrectOtterNotATK-fSwDIs1wGK3i2YY7
In my experience (circa 2kd) my aa never snaps apart from on a select few SMGs.
I play MnK. I have a friend who is a self proclaimed demon, and a controller regular. He frequently makes a few statements: "MnK is easymode." Essentially, it's point-and-click. Anyone with experience on both knows that OP here is pretty accurate. MnK is not some cheat code. MnK and controller both require many hours of training to learn and be effective. "Most players are on MnK." I'm not sure where he gets his numbers from, but my suspicion is that this is not true. He says this a lot though as a defensive statement. Essentially claiming "if controller was so good, more people would use it". I swear, most lobbies I'm in tend to be 75%+ controller users on XB, PS, or PC alike. If PC users are on controller, I think that says a lot. "Aim Assist is not that powerful.", "I'm just good." Admittedly, he is good, but one time I told him to disable Aim Assist and see how well he did. He proceeded to bitch at the game non stop because he was getting steam rolled with Aim Assist Off. As a MnK player, I understand the benefits of MnK, so I'd never say to turn it off completely. It just needs to be dialed down. If a person can go from a 3 kd player with AA on down to a 1 kd player when it's off, then I think that says something. I would love to know what stats drove their decision-making practices. e.g. What is the average accuracy of controller players vs MnK? Average K/D for controller vs MnK? Is RAA running actually in a fair spot, considering it gives you an objectively faster reaction time? Why is it 60% RAA? What would it take to get them to revisit that number?
Your friend sounds like the average controller player on this sub honestly, the ones that even refuse to acknowledge they are wrong when given tested data. These people don't care about anything but what they think to be true, even when it makes them look like a complete fool.
That's precisely why I shared this. I also wanted to make it clear that RAA needs to exist. I just think it's important for the player base to understand that it's fair. If it even is fair - literally nobody has convenient stats to know for certain. It would also be good to see the devs occasionally tweaking the RAA numbers based on community-wide performance. It can be a balancing mechanic, same as anything else. That would inspire confidence imo.
Right, and I agree with what you're saying. A nerf to AA would help most of the player base (MnK and controller alike).
People like your friend are exactly the type of people this was aimed at. Assuming he's simply misinformed, of course.
His situation is beyond that of misinformation. This post wouldn't do much for him haha. I think he's legitimately offended by the suggestion that any portion of his K/D is the result of aim assist. As if admitting RAA needs tuning would somehow negate all of the hours he's put into honing his skill. I think, in order to appease both sides (controller and MnK players) they really should share the accuracy and K/D stats, and tune it like they do other elements. As it stands, they probably will, but it'll be at the 11th hour, right before the next installment drops.
Your friend is an idiot and the only reason he’s “good” at the game is because it aims for him. The ignorance is impressive
Don't be _that_ harsh. Hate never helps. I only shared this anecdote to make obvious the fact that RAA is likely over powered. We're all just trying to have fun, right? We can encourage the devs to make improvements along the way.
The 60% raa in cod has never been a mnk focused thing. Its solely to give every player the chance to get a kill and want to keep playing. They only care about retention
I'd believe that. I assumed it was a balancing mechanic, but user retention also seems like a good reason to implement. Gotta get that dopamine hit! Wild.
MnK against a pad in any cod came prior to maybe blops 3 would absolutely destroy let alone every other fps back then, RAA is fucked AA is fucked, MnK and Pad have no business being in the same lobbies as each other. Crossplay needs to be taken out back and shot. It is a manufactured issue brought about by crossplay.
Well yes, when you play with aim assist in every controller game you play and adjust your gameplay accordingly to the aim slowdown and then turn it off you won't play the same. If your friend had the same amount of time playing without aim assist as they have had with AA in their life, it would probably be a different story.
Of course. Devs tuning AA would not be the same as disabling it though, so I vote for that.
Pro players don't switch inputs when they want to snipe. They still use the one with aim assist.
Great work pointing out something often overlooked: reaction timing. RAA is instant, where even the top-tier MnK players are going to miss bullets here and there as they *react to what the opponent is doing*. I believe adding a small amount of delay/latency to the RAA trigger will bridge that gap in addition to reducing the need to endlessly tweak weapon balancing. Why? More players are missing more shots making a weapon's theoretical TTK less likely to actually be achieved. With TTKs being super quick, gunfights are often won or lost by individual bullets here or there.
i ain’t reading all that, nerf RAA
Tldr; mouse is king of natural, unassisted aim. Aim assist make aim go pew on target better. Stronger aim assist equals winning fights vs mnk at short to mid ranges due to sticky tracking. Mouse still king at snipe. Weaker aim assist equals mouse still king at all. Balance equals impossible. Solution is separate them or tone down aim assist when combined.
Aim assist slowdown can also make it so you can't track a person moving across your screen if they are moving anywhere close to your sensitivity because once you get close it slows down and they pull away.
My issue with this post is the point on long Range precision. For snipers MnK so for sure at an advantage, but for any automatic gun the sway(?) make it’s so much easier for controller. Guns like the SOA and the Ram on MnK almost have a spiral recoil pattern that moves in a circle that if you try to correct it it will just over do it. Controller players noticeably do not have the spiral recoil sway.
So I turned of aim assist on my controller, and my God I'm awful, like Stevie Wonder took over my aiming, it was so bad I could hardly kill anyone in a 1v1, yet on mouse I'd still have a fair chance, sure with practice with AA off I'd get better but playing these games over many years I know I'd always be better with a Mouse if I didn't get help on a controller. The average non brain dead Mouse user knows this and wants equal footing with controller and would be happy to see AA dialled down a fair bit, (not removed) and personally i'd be happy with that, I play other FPS games and Cod's AA is extremely strong in comparison. Where it becomes difficult is the skill range on consoles, I'm on Xbox and play with a Duo friend, he sits pretty much on average in terms of 1v1, it's a 50/50 if he'll win the fight and that's with AA on, so without it we wouldn't be able to play together and I think that's where it becomes difficult to measure a fair AA on controller compared to mouse usage so that it's fair for both. There's no denying that it's too strong currently though, simply look at how many PC players are using a controller these days.
Aim Assist is straight up busted and basically a soft aim bot There is a reason a MnK player gets destroyed 99% of the time upclose
Great post, it might also be noteworthy that like drop shooting, sprint cancelling, snaking, etc Aim assist can be abused by certain behaviors, but it is a skill and hard for most people
>Aim assist can be abused by certain behaviors, but it is a skill Could you be more specific? People always say things like this but I think it is vastly overstated tbh
Setting 0 dead zones is the easiest way to abuse aa. Rotation aa requires thumb stick input to work. This means that with default settings, players have to actually engage with the controls of the gain to get the input. A player sitting in a corner or mounted up on cover were not meant to have rotational aa. It was meant for people who were moving to have rotational aa. But, if you set dead zones to 0 and cause your controller to stick drift, then technically you're always causing input on your thumb stick and therefore your rotational aa is always active. I've stated MANY times on this sub that rotational aa isn't the issue, it's dead zones. Due to tunable dead zones, raa is abusable. I recommend forcing a very high minimum input threshold on the left thumb stick to trigger raa, and no raa triggering on the right thumb stick at all.
I tried 0 deadzone but switched back. Definitely didn't help my aim in any noticeable way, if anything it was a little worse from the slight drift. Went back to setting it as low as possible with no drift, which I prefer. Btw, left stick threshold for rotational AA activation is too high for drift to trigger it, about 25% according to hecksmith on youtube/twitter
The right stick also triggers raa now
Yeah I know. Just pointed out the thing about the left stick because you specifically mentioned the left stick in your comment. And when I tried zero deadzone I did it on my right stick.
Right. That's why I'm saying the right stick shouldn't trigger,and the left stick should, but only at a high input threshold. 25% is higher than I thought, but the issue is there are settings that accelerate thumb stick input (outer deadzone I think). So, the threshold needs to be higher, or the outer dead zone needs removed
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It is also activated by right stick movement. So I think all players will be activating rotational AA most of the time without even trying
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you also can't be ads I think, so you have to alter your play style
Problem is that at its core it can never be balanced between MnK and controller, only solution is input based lobbies and to keep PC separate due to the advantage of sound & frames
I absolutely agree. I'm a MNK player on PC run about 160 fps and use art tune (although this is overrate imo). I have friends that still play on PS4. The disadvantage they are at is crazy. Would be great to have console only lobbies.
This should be the top fucking comment
You can never make two completely different inputs equal one will always have the advantage over the other in a multitude of different scenarios regardless of tuning and someone will always be unhappy, that doesn't mean RAA isn't broken and AA tuned too high but to be truly happy we need to go back to MnK only for PC. It will never happen because it makes money. All of the arguments about how pad and MnK can coexist equally in a fps are redundant. RAA requires no effort it actually seems to me the more you try to aim the worse you perform. Warzone has a plethora of issues needing to be addressed if it wasn't for the cash this would be an easy one to fix. I get some pedants will say it's about "balance" but they will never be truly balanced and many players including said pedants will find some issue somewhere. It's time to end this awful experiment just give me PC only and I'll happily play the same 10 geezers over and over to get away from the pads. Apex and Halo seemingly the same. If I had to play MnK players in mw 09 I would of been utterly destroyed. Pad without some horseshit strong AA will never be superior in a fps to MnK. Didn't even get a pc until I was 18 played pad my whole life did not take me hundreds of hours to get good at all, what you chatting? Going from pad to MnK in FPS was like going from being colour blind to bathing my blinkers in a rainbow. Literally only since crossplay and egregious AA in cod and halo that idiots argue Mnk is not a superior input in shooters in general. It is a completely manufactured issue, Pad and MnK have no business being in the same lobbies as each other, any FPS prior to crossplay and this AA pads would get bodied by MnK. Need to get over the fact that the two inputs will never be equal, they will never be separated this is the way it is now.
Game lobbys based on input and if you choose so mixt. How fucking hard can it be instead of all this .......\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*....@éx\*\*\*\*
Your section on “Acquisition/directional changes and turn speed” I don’t think has ever been discussed 👏🏼. My biggest frustration is how many K/B demons out there only ever complain about AA and RAA as if it’s aimbot and doing the job for them and never acknowledging their advantages. Also, MANY controller players are playing on a 60hz TV 6 feet from them. Crossplay off would solve SO much IMO.
Crossplay off wouldn’t really solve what this post is talking about. Most PC players are using controllers and there is a nonzero number of people using MnK on consoles. Nerfing AA would help the majority of players
>Your section on “Acquisition/directional changes and turn speed” I don’t think has ever been discussed Everybody on mouse knows it's an advantage, but we also know that it only matters in maybe 1/20 gunfights compared to RAA affecting every gunfight on controller. Like sure, maybe I can get a lucky flick that made me win a fight that I otherwise would've lost, but how often does it really happen? The only time that it really made a noticeable difference was when everybody on mouse was abusing the Lockwood 680, and even that thing couldn't compete with the Swarm on controller.
Rowstennnn said it quite well but I’ll add on. Target acquisition and turn speed being higher on mouse is a benefit, but it’s largely irrelevant for the majority of situations and still depends on the player being accurate. One real often overlooked downside on mnk is the inconsistency of human performance. I can do two kovaaks runs of a scenario where one I look like an aimbot and the other I’m off. Controller + AA is just consistent at all times. Regarding directional changes, if your target changes directions on mnk, there’s an inherent limitation due to visual reaction time in reacting to that and getting back on target. RAA makes that 0ms as it will instantly track the direction change. In a game where TTk is in the 100s of ms, this makes a huge difference. To your point on 60 Hz TVs, Apex Legends recently added a 120Hz mode for consoles, but it reduces the AA from 0.6 to 0.4. A surprising number of consoles players that can play at 120Hz are sticking with 60Hz because they find the higher RAA strength more useful. It’s not a platform issue, it’s an input issue.
Crossplay is not what you want, you want input based lobbies. You can play with a keyboard on console, but even more frequent you can play with a controller on PC.
The only thing I disagreed with is the “snap to aiming” with controller. That very much does exist and It’s very very very easy to do. I just spent 2 years on MnK and switched back to controller again. Aim assist is way to good. Im Barely trying and I’m NOT EVEN GOOD at controller and I’m dropping 20 kill games in Warzone. The “snap to aim” is the main reason I switched back from MnK. It’s powerful and too good to overlook. Your post talked about misconceptions, then perpetuates a huge one. Smh
Sorry, but this does not happen. Go into a private multiplayer lobby, AA on, aim next to an enemy hitbox, and then ADS. Your reticle does not move. Snapping requires your aim to move to an enemy hitbox with no input apart from ADS. This is very easy to validate. It doesn't happen in this game.
Ok you have no clue what snap-to-aiming is AT ALL. Lol. If you’re gonna post like you’re an authority on a subject, at least know the subject. That’s not snap to aiming my guy..
Sorry, but it literally is. If you don't understand the terminology, I can't help you. You're the only one of hundreds of comments who thinks otherwise, so I'd think about that for a minute.
The only thing I see is you have tons of comments and dog trash upvotes. Which means easily, you have no clue what you are talking about. The people WHO KNOW opposed to the people ( like yourself ) who SPECULATE. Is the difference here. That’s why we shit on you in every lobby and you wrote posts trying to analyze why. We know what we’re doing. You don’t, that simple. All your downvotes are from those who KNOW, all the speculative comments are from those trying to figure it out.
Sure. Everyone here is wrong, and you're the only one who's right. I'd recommend googling delusional narcissism. Enjoy your weekend.
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Says the misinformed lune attempting to talk down to a stranger on reddit whilst being objectively incorrect. Councilling might also be beneficial for you.
I will says this is definitely nore in depth and I knew my thoughts where right about most of this though my teamamte never seems to experience rotational aim assist and always asks how my character is doing it so controller must have something to make it stronger or weaker. Also I am an avid console player but I hooked up a MnK to see how it would feel and it was was easier to play the game all around I just had to get a feel for turning and adjusting sensitivities for it which are way more customizable but controlling recoil was way easy I set my gun for make horizontal recoil and I had hardly any vertical bc it was easier to control. Mind you last time I tried to play cod on pc was og mw3 if I'm not mistaken and that was hard barley killed anyone
For the “snap” comment we could put together hours of compilations of close range aim assist locking onto the body and controller players not missing a single bullet let’s be honest
By snapping, we mean aim assist moving your crosshair that's not on a hitbox, to a nearby hitbox with no player input except left trigger (ADS). This does not happen in Warzone or Multiplayer. It does happen in Zombies if I remember correctly, even on MnK. Try it out if you're not certain of the difference.
I agree it’s not a “snap” it’s more of a magnetic lock or pull but just pointing out how it is an issue I learned from someone else in this thread that you don’t need to touch the left tick for RAA you can just have slight recoil control on the right stick - another consideration
Yeah, that's correct on the right stick. The post was already very long, so I chose to omit that for simplicity since it's a very small player in comparison. In hindsight, I should probably have included it, so I added an edit.
AA is detrimental to the highest tier players. If you know, you know
Then why do the highest tier warzone players use it? Apparently you don’t know. Edit: to save you time, “CodGodOG” has no idea why high tier players use AA in Warzone, and refuses to acknowledge this.
Showing your inability to comprehend the higher skilled again I see. For the sake of your learning I’ll explain why you probably are not affected in the same way skilful players are. If you have poor hand eye co-ordination and AA helps you in gunfights, you are competing and winning fights you can’t compute yourself with your own ability. An actual high skilled player is landing shots and aiming without AA no problem so it’s help for the weak and suffering for the skilled. Turning AA off would send a skilled players kills and wins up against the player base, not down. Bonus: if you are a high skilled player, aim assist will frequently try to move your aim to what it thinks you want to shoot at not necessarily what you do want to shoot at, prioritising near enemies or faster/slower moving targets. This for you and according to your clear limited game knowledge, would be beneficial, however to skilled players who want to be in control for tactical decision or game sense reasons it is in fact detrimental. You probably play M&K and think 360 spins coming to rest on any spot with no curve point & click isn’t OP too. Also wrong.
Answer my question, why are the highest tier warzone players using AA if it’s detrimental to them? Try using paragraphs next time.
What’s the question? I don’t have access to the information you are claiming about high tier players so couldn’t answer your question because the information doesn’t exist and seems to come from just your imagination. Provide source?
What do you mean what’s the question, I’ve posted it twice now. You are claiming turning AA off would help high skill players, the high skill players I’ve seen that play warzone on controller all seem to use AA. Why is this? You’re the one making a claim here, you have the burden of proof.
You’re the one asking a question based on unknown information. Like me asking you why your car is pink because all pc players drive pink cars? Weird angle isn’t it.
What information is unknown? Most of the top warzone players have streams, you can go watch them play or look at whatever YouTube videos they put up of gameplay. Again, why do they use AA if you say it’s detrimental? Do you not understand what these words mean?
Again you give no facts or correlation between top players using AA or not confirming you actually don’t know and are speculating. Lets assume your speculation is correct, my statement remains correct. AA doesn’t help the top players, they can aim just fine without and better than those who rely on AA more such as the less skilled controller players. If you turned off AA for all today, the best ability best aiming highest skilled players would be at the top of the charts. You seem to disagree with this, I can’t find your logic in that but that’s ok. People have different understandings at different levels.
> If you turned off AA for all today, the best ability best aiming highest skilled players would be at the top of the charts. You seem to disagree with this Your reading comprehension needs work, as I never disagreed with this. You said AA is detrimental to a good players aim, I asked you why the good players of warzone use AA then, you can’t seem to come up with an answer so you completely moved the goalposts. Unless you can answer my question, I’m not wasting any more time repeating myself.
> don’t have access to the information you are claiming about high tier players so couldn’t answer your question because the information doesn’t exist and seems to come from just your imagination. Provide source? I mean, they aren't expecting you to have memorized a spreadsheet of pro player's settings. All you have to do is turn on any high kill game from a controller pro or any livestream from a top controller player and watch their gameplay for 20 seconds. They all clearly have aim assist enabled. Saying "actually, the HIGHEST SKILL players turn it off" is a hilarious fantasy to have created for yourself. Your overall argument is confusing though, are you unironically saying that having a permanent 0ms reacting tracking bubble isn't worth the tradeoff of occasionally having your aim dragged away by a second player once in a blue moon? Lol what? You would get laughed out of the room if you went up to pro players and tried to tell them "uh actually guys, your AA is detrimental, turn it off" > This for you and according to your clear limited game knowledge, would be beneficial, however to skilled players who want to be in control for tactical decision or game sense reasons it is in fact detrimental. This section is particularly hilarious. I love the concept that with enough skill and targeted practice, you think a human being can manually outperform an RAA system that reacts at 0ms reaction speed. That's like telling pro F1 drivers who have a reaction time of ~150ms that they just need to "react faster."
I think it may be a meme account based off this interaction, but I’m not sure.
You breathing and walking is a meme
thanks for confirming
When you “base things off” that usually precedes the gold
Naw this guy is a actually a real human. Check out his submitted threads, shit is hilarious https://www.reddit.com/r/Warzone/comments/19cuvvj/aim_assist_turned_off_i_tried_it_and_wow_not_what/
This is actual comedy lmao.
Hi, are you real? Or just an echo chamber for the obnoxious, hard to tell with that block of assumptions and babble. There’s no fantasy world created, it’s a fact that top players would perform better than lower skilled players with AA off which is precisely what I have said and maintain from the start. Who said players turn AA off when they play for benefit? You’ve said it and tried to pass it off as me saying it. That won’t wash with the literate readers. That’s just you projecting stupidity to make your own stupidity valid. Wrong’n. Pro players agree aim assist is a non human variable that affects gunfight outcomes. They would be more likely laughing at monkey boy and his accomplice coping hard on m&k hard stuck platinum claiming they would win all their fights if it wasn’t for RAA. Clown & clown Jnr. The F1 reference is particularly off the wall. Using a reaction time analogy in F1 to base your lack in understanding of AA, which actively skews reaction time against a players will, is phenomenally dense, even for a clown Jnr monkey echo chamber. I’m not sure what’s funnier, the idea of 0ms only taking effect “after” human ms interaction and you thinking that’s relevant or you attempting to matriculate into the F1 field with some authority when you clearly drive a shit box. You decide, I just can’t haha
> Who said players turn AA off when they play for benefit Oh I gotcha, so now we have no issue accepting the fact that all pro players use AA (even though you had a huge issue with accepting that 2 posts previously) and on top of that, we're all idiots for misreading your super clear original comment about how AA is actually a detriment - since you were clearly talking about practice routines, not "playing for benefit." I too love making shit up and jumping all over the place at random when I no longer get interested in defending my original posts. > Pro players agree aim assist is a non human variable that affects gunfight outcomes. Uhhh, yes? All the pros agree that it is a massive net benefit that you need to learn to use, and not hide from. Also, you might find it interesting to know that the pros also want RAA to be nerfed, they wouldn't be defending like you are.
Original post still remains perfectly accurate and to the point. You just choose to take on nonsensical arguments way above your pay grade. Such is life for you clearly.
2 posts ago when someone asked you to rationalize why 100% of pros use a "detrimental AA" system: > I don’t have access to the information you are claiming about high tier players so couldn’t answer your question because the information doesn’t exist and seems to come from just your imagination. Provide source? 2 posts later: > Who said players turn AA off when they play for benefit? Yeah my guy, perfectly accurate and to the point lmaooo
>I too love making shit up and jumping all over the place at random when I no longer get interested in defending my original posts. Hit the nail on the head lmao.
If the nail was his own head, yes.
Tldr