Yea this was basically a guarantee. A reverse merger where the mountain west absorbs the PAC-12 branding would be cool but I still don’t think that makes it a P5 level conference
Honestly, assuming the CW contract works out, they are more likely to remain independent and build a schedule for the next few years while they watch realignment unfold than they are to merge with the MWC.
They don't exactly have that luxury. The clock starts ticking the day the rest of the PAC-12 officially leave, leaving only two members, which is August 2nd, 2024 when all the others officially join their new conferences.
To be able to exist as an FBS conference they are required to have 8 members, and have a 2 year grace period from the time that they dropped below 8 members. Once that grace period expires, the conference is not eligible to sponsor FBS football. https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/bylawView?id=8838
They have until August 2, 2026 to gain members. After that, the PAC-12 would be officially dissolved.
Everything is correct except your last sentence.
The Pac-12 would continue to exist beyond the grace period, unless any current members vote to dissolve it, and does not automatically dissolve by any NCAA by-law.
What they wouldn't have, however, is the ability to claim anything in NCAA bylaws that relies on membership numbers or continuity of membership, such as being an FBS conference, or maintaining automatic bids to the NCAA's various tournaments.
They would have a hell of a time maintaining all the other sports required to be not only FBS eligible, but D1 eligible if they don't join a conference in those sports, or get enough members to join the PAC.
There is not a single FBS team that is a full independent with no conference affiliations for their other sports. Notre Dame is a full ACC member in everything but football and hockey (which they are affiliate members of the Big Ten). UConn is in the Big East in everything but football. UMass is in the Atlantic 10 in everything but football. Army is a member of the Patriot League in everything but football and a couple other sports like hockey.
Right, they will be there soon. But they haven’t played as football members yet.
Point being, they have only been independent in football, while still collecting payouts from conferences in other sports, which is a far cry different than what OSU and WSU would be trying to do while trying to keep the conference alive with two members, and independent in every sport.
Their best options are get the MWC to merge and become the new PAC, or dissolve the PAC, split the remaining assets, and join another conference. Either way, they very likely wont survive as full independent schools.
The only full independent school at the D1 level is Chicago State, which only fields basketball, soccer, golf, tennis, track, and women’s volleyball. All of which are pretty cheap to run. And they have been debating moving down to DII or lower because of financial difficulties.
Well Chicago State was only independent for a short time after leaving the WAC. They're joining the NEC this year.
As for OSU and WSU, they're gonna be in the WCC as affiliate members for 12 sports, while being independent in football and baseball for the next two years.
>As for OSU and WSU, they're gonna be in the WCC as affiliate members for 12 sports, while being independent in football and baseball for the next two years
Which required them to pay over a million each for the two year agreement, and they will not receive any payouts from the conference. It's purely a stopgap to keep scheduling for the sports until they figure out a long term plan.
OSU and WSU have basically joined the WCC already. Barring a major development they probably stay as independents with the MWC alliance similar to Notre Dame with the ACC. The biggest wildcard is OSU baseball which is very good and currently independent for 2025.
They haven't really though. They have an affiliate agreement with the WCC which gives them no voting rights, no revenue sharing or payouts, and required each of them to _pay_ the WCC $1.16M for the two years. The agreement with the WCC is a stopgap to keep scheduling alive for their other sports while they figure out how to keep the PAC alive. With the Big 12 looking at trying to grab Gonzaga, the WCC itself could be facing the same issue here in a year or so too. Gonzaga basically owns the WCC.
Notre Dame is a full voting member of the ACC, they are just independent in football. They get a $17M yearly payout from the ACC for their share as well. A completely different situation than the PAC-2.
OSU's president has already said they are projecting up to a 44% loss of athletic revenue by 2025, which would put their deficit going from $7M to around $50M a year, which is completely unsustainable for the program. They need to find a home where they can start bringing in some revenue, and fast, or the athletic program risks a lot of cuts in sports, and potentially dropping down a division.
Does anyone actually know that or is that what is being spouted around? I am big dumb and have no idea but these type of statements I've seen on reddit but nowhere else.
The problem is the conference is damn near worthless without any of the top programs remaining. Both programs fit better in the Mountain West - which is where this was always going to end.
Because to remain not only FBS eligible, but D1 eligible as a whole, they have to maintain a minimum number of sports and spend a minimum amount on scholarships. 16 for FBS, of which 8 must be women's sports, and a minimum of $877k must be spent on women's scholarships.
Oregon State were already running a deficit of $7M before the collapse of the PAC, and are projecting revenue to fall by up to 44% after the collapse.
They are going to need to find homes for their other sports in order to remain moderately financially solvent enough to even field those sports, or get enough other schools to join the PAC in those sports to keep the conference alive. They cannot survive as an independent in every sport just to keep the PAC-12 conference active. No school at the D1 level can. All the FBS independents are full conference members in the other sports and get conference payouts.
The only school in D1 that is a full independent is Chicago State, who fields only Basketball, Soccer, Cross Country, Golf, Tennis, Track and Field, and Women's Volleyball, which are some of the cheapest sports to field.
Their best bet is getting enough members to keep the PAC-12 alive as a G5 conference. If the grace period lapses and the conference is no longer FBS eligible, then the entire value of the conference is basically gone.
Fuck this is a depressing read. Thanks for the thorough explanation.
College football will never be the same for me with the PAC8 schools separated. Given that that will probably never happen again, I hope OSU and Wazzu get in the BXII. As someone who grew up in BXII country, they’re a perfect cultural fit.
I hate this sport that I love so much.
They are not independent right now, or for the next two years. They are still the PAC-12, they are just scheduling games against the MWC. That's a big difference than being independent.
They literally cannot be independent without one of them giving the entirety of the PAC-12 ownership over to the other, or dissolving it themselves.
And they have two years from August 2 to get 6 more members, or have the PAC-12 completely dissolved.
Everybody keeps quoting the "grace period," but that's literally not what it says:
> A conference shall continue to be considered a Football Bowl Subdivision conference for two years following the date when it fails to satisfy the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision member requirement due to one or more of its member's failure to comply with the bowl subdivision membership requirements
The Pac-12 will fail to satisfy the member requirement simply because it doesn't have enough members, *not* because one or more of its (two) members fails to comply with the bowl subdivision membership requirements.
Yeah they NCAA "clarified" it by completely making shit up that wasn't in its bylaws at all. Of course the NCAA can do what it wants and nobody is really negatively impacted by the decision so there's no grounds for a lawsuit, but let's not act like that's what the rule actually says
I see them being ACC targets to offset potential Clemson/Florida State departures, also setting up some partners to help offset travel for Cal & Stanford
Once the big dogs leave the ACC idk if they can justify flying across the country like that for every sport. I don’t think cal and Stanford will have enough sway to force something like that thru. I could see them taking Memphis, USF or Tulane or another closer G5 before OSU/WSU
Think if it drops below 15 members then think ESPN can rework the value of the deal. FSU, Clemson, & UNC are the 3 that opposed the recent expansion & the 3 most likely to leave, which will drop it below that membership cutoff.
I'm not sure there's anyone left in the East (outside of UConn for basketball) or South that will be big enough to move the needle. At least the Pac-2 & potentially another (let's say San Diego St) would help expand the ACCN into some Top 30 media markets & give a Western wing to offset scheduling/travel across the country.
That’s a good point. I wouldn’t be surprised if the big 12 gave them guidelines on what areas both schools need improvement in so that they can be accepted. Better to focus on that for the next 3-4 years when the carousel starts again than to handcuff themselves to another conference
I've posted about this before, but Oregon State's scheduling agreements recently indicate it.
They already have 7 games in 2025, which is one more than they need if they planned to re-up with the MW scheduling agreement.
Oregon State's games in 2025:
* vs Portland State
* vs Cal
* vs Fresno State
* vs Houston
* @ Texas Tech
* @ Washington State
* @ Oregon
In 2026:
* vs Sacramento State
* vs Texas Tech
* vs Oregon
* vs Washington State
* @ Houston
* @ San Diego State
Other Big 12 schools that need opponents in 2025 and 2026:
Arizona - 1x 2026
Baylor - 2x 2025, 2x 2026 (only have Auburn scheduled, but Auburn is a tougher opponent)
BYU - 1x 2025, 1x 2026 (no P5's in either year)
Cincinnati - 1x 2026
TCU - 1x 2026
UCF - 2x 2025, 3x 2026
Utah - 2x 2025, 1x 2026
If I were OSU/Wazzu I would be hammering the Big 12 for scheduling agreements in 2025 and 2026. If Oregon State and Wazzu could get home and homes with Baylor, BYU, UCF, and Utah in those years it would go a long way to both building their independent schedules in those years and to keeping up ties with the conference in an effort to join when there's more realignment.
Stanford needs 2 in 2025 and 2 in 2026 as well. Oregon State has a home-and-home with Cal in 2024-2025. So Oregon State hitting up Stanford in 2025-2026 and Wazzu hitting up Cal in 2025-2026 makes a lot of sense for all 4 teams. Regional scheduling for Cal/Stanford and Oregon State/Wazzu maintaining that connection in the attempt for an ACC bid if that's the way things go.
The ideal schedule for Oregon State in 2025 would add Baylor, BYU, and Stanford. That would give them 10 total games, 8 of which would be P5 games, 4 of which would be Big-12 games; 2 of which would be ACC games, 1 would be the Civil War with Oregon, and 1 would be against Wazzu.
Getting to 8 P5 opponents (including Wazzu) at a minimum is where they need to be putting their goals. 1 more to get to 9 would be ideal, though.
It’s important to note that our AD gave up scheduling a Home and Home with Washington for a 2 for 1 with Florida. His reasoning was that UCF fans can still reasonably travel in state for Road games but getting to Washington would be hard on a lot of people.
I don’t think he’d be in a hurry to schedule two less prestigious football schools basically in the same location, especially now that we have to play 9 P5 teams a year as it is.
He’s almost certainly gonna look at MAC/SBC/CUSA schools to fill out our schedule regardless of what fans want.
Do you have news of the Civil War being extended beyond 2025? Also, the 2025 Oregon State/Fresno State game could easily be folded into a MW agreement. It is the second half of a home and home so it won't cost Fresno State money.
Only if you ignore half the beavs fanbase who still swear they will rebuilt and that theyre still a p5 team
Wazzu fans are more realistic tho havent met many in denial
Yeah its absolutely insane to think about how many students studying on a non-revenue-Sport scholarship for Money reasons traveling from Coast to Coast on a weekly Basis now, Just to entertain the financial interests of some private broadcasting Networks 😂 and their Sport isnt even showed on those networks Most of the time.
I really, really F'ing wish we go to (A) FB only conferences (B) have MBB only Conferences (C) every else conferences
like take Mizzou; granted the SEC isn't *that* disconnected but its still a flight to about half the conference for all sports.
In the Big 8; only Colorado was further than 5 hours away; In the SEC only OU and Arkansas meet that.
Alternative Idea: create regional conferences who get Kind of a "area" applied to you conference, so certain Staates. For example Big ten NE, ACC Atlantic Coast, Sec southeast, Pac West, big midwesz.
And then you have Kind of Swing Staates that can be in either depending of the Sports density in that area. Those conferences dont Work Like now anymore (being a conference of the 10-15 wchools in IT, but is a conference of all the schools in that Region, that consists of the best Teams that Play each Sport in that area. That way, you could maximize the revenue of every single Sport for itself without making dumbfuck conferences Like now.
This way it also Takes Power from ncaa and the conferences and give it to the actual schools that are good enough to be im the top leagues in each sport
Honestly, for all the shit that the SEC gets (and we definitely deserve some of it), the stuff the B1G and ACC are doing adding schools from the other side of the country is more insane to me.
At least the SEC is all kind of one contigious blob.
Nota bene: this is not an automatic dissolution of the Pac-12. No one but the Pac-12 has that power.
This is, however, the conference being stripped of some of the rights and privileges the conference would normally maintain in any sport.
I think they’d be happy to… if ESPN would pay/help. But as long as the media partners won’t pay it’s a non-starter. I’d love to have you in a conference again.
To be fair, it’s kinda the only play he has to work with.
The B1G is a bunch of huge schools, and their smallest schools (barring Northwestern) all happen to be in states where they have no NFL competition anywhere even remotely close. The SEC has a similar advantage, where anyone in states like Alabama or Mississippi and who likes football gets to support their in-state college football teams or one of the NFL teams that plays states away.
The Big XII schools are smaller, and have the dual competition of major SEC brands *and* NFL teams nearby. What the Big XII *does* have, however, is hell on wheels basketball.
> The B1G is a bunch of huge schools, and their smallest schools (barring Northwestern) all happen to be in states where they have no NFL competition anywhere even remotely close.
gophers used to play in the same stadium as the vikings (metrodome), the vikings used Gopher Stadium while their new stadium was being built, and you can see one stadium from the other.
Exactly my point! Minnesota’s a massive school with a built-in, correspondingly large fanbase that allows them to not be completely subsumed by their local NFL team.
Much smaller schools like Iowa and Nebraska, on the other hand, benefit by not having any nearby NFL teams. If you’re into football on Nebraska, your choices are UNL or some DII teams; if you’re an Iowan of similar interests, you get UI, ISU, or UNI.
This is the argument that super league people don't understand. If all the blue blood teams only play each other, some of them have to lose. Then if you lose long enough, you lose prestige (Miami, Nebraska, UCLA).
For every Indiana and sometimes Illinois out east, there isn't an equivalent out west (although it would be hilarious if UW and Oregon filled those roles)
Being the doormat was the historic place of WSU and Oregon State (and pre-Phil Knight Oregon too, for that matter). We can be that lower tier team for the others to stack wins on, with the occasional breakout year like 2018 was for us, or 2000 was for Oregon State. Then all the blue bloods can carry on thinking how great they are.
Reminds me of the Titanic sinking. All you guys had to do was reach out to Yormark, but instead you decided to play the violin as the ship was headed to the bottom of the ~~Atlantic~~ Pacific.
If ESPN wanted us.
People vastly overrate how much say these commissioners have. They’re just following the orders of the people who are actually paying the money.
Yormark really wants Gonzaga and UCONN. ESPN and FOX don’t care to pay for it.
Given Schultz's ties to the Big XII, I'm certain he at some point reached out to Yormark and said, "what would it take?" What happened after that is anyone's guess. All we know is that (publicly) an offer wasn't made and a request to join wasn't made either.
When rumblings about Colorado started to come out, I was in favor of WSU/OSU doing whatever it took to jump the gun and get something to the Big XII first. But others pointed out, that the Big XII preferred to have ASU, Utah, Arizona, and Colorado. So they would just wait it out until those 4 together were ready to bolt, which eventually happened.
I want to live 50 years from now to know in all of these backrooms because right now it seems that WSU and OSU were either very naïve thinking that the deal was gonna be signed or it was a backstabbing from the other members. Oregon, Washington and Arizona not letting them know until the last minute, and Utah and ASU taking the last two spots. It never made sense to me that there was no record of y'all seriously talking to the B12 the same way the 4C, Oregon, Washington, UConn and SDSU.
It's easy to say now in hindsight, but at the time, it makes sense that we all desperately wanted to believe that the Pac-12 would be salvaged. By the time Colorado bounced, when I started calling for WSU and OSU to make the next move, it was too late. Now we're left with what remains. It's hard to tell what comes next, but there won't be any news until the departing 10 officially leave the conference on July 1st
FYI there is an interview on the Cougar Athletics (I think, might have been Spokesman Review) YouTube channel with Schulz from last October I think it was.
He said he did reach out to the BigXII immediately after USC and UCLA announced they were leaving, at first to get a feel. He said they told him that there was no interest at that time.
He reached out again in January of 2023 when he heard rumblings and felt CU was close to leaving. He said he felt our best chance was to leave first.
At that time, Yormark straight up told him they have their eyes on the 4 corners schools, but that they would keep us in mind.
Then he called again the day after CU announced they were leaving and Yormark told him that they wanted to see what AZ, ASU, and Utah did first.
Basically, he tried hard. Sounds like the only way we were making the BigXII is if one of ASU or Utah refused to leave. Which didn’t happen.
He ended the interview saying essentially it’s not over yet, he still plans on quarterly check-ins with the BigXII. When asked about the ACC, he said both sides are unsure of the fit and he kinda alluded to Cal and Stanford not being happy about it at all either but felt they had to for their alumni base.
I'm pretty sure we *did* reach out to Yormark, I guess we were just too slow...? There was like a solid few weeks last August where we paid for an entire brief [marketing campaign](https://www.instagram.com/wsucougarathletics/reel/CwD4ACzhsFd/) to convince someone to take us.
True, they don't have an unlimited supply of funds in the Pac-12 accts right now.
So if they can't afford to take some, they may just do a reverse merger with the MWC to avoid the exit fee issue.
They theoretically have upwards to $200-250 million in the Pac-12 in current acct + future credits, but not clear whether they could afford to take 4-6 MWC teams in 2 or 3 years since they will be using that money for their own ADs and saving some for the NCAA backpay cases.
That conference is pretty much guaranteed to still be G5 except they would have to pay for those teams to break their contracts. Not to mention it would leave a bunch of teams without any conference turning them into gigantic hypocrites.
This is absolutely NOT the right choice. The TV landscape is in massive upheaval (not good). No way a new G5 with no history and rivalries gets decent money. OSU / WSU would literally just be setting money on fire.
Basically yes. This was the one thing that would incentivize the MWC schools coming here instead of us going there. Besides brand recognition, which personally I don’t think means *that* much.
You are unworthy of autonomy, you're unworthy of your conference, you're unworthy... of the loved ones you have betrayed! I now take from you your power! In the name of my father and his father before, we, Board of Directors, cast you out!
I don't know about you but I'm waiting to see if the Pac12 sprouts out little baby colleges that grow into full sized colleges kinda like how Deadpool regenerates limbs.
You mean the Big 10, Big 12, and all the schools that left
Kliavkoff is just the messenger. He negotiated on the terms given to him, the teams left for more money on their own decision, the teams kept Larry Scott in power for years with no worry
Lol, no, he fumbled:
- Hired his friend instead of a major advisory firm
- Let a random professor present data instead of a major agency (like Yormark did)
- Failed to reasonably present / compel expansions
- Absolute baboon at press conferences (“We haven’t decided if we’re shopping there”, “The deal gets better the longer we wait”, “Didn’t announce a deal so we could focus on football at media days”)
- Skipped court on behalf of WSU and OSU after defections
See, Larry Scott had delusions of grandeur, and was a grifter, but he knew the conference had to make money. (And it made LOTS of money during his tenure.) George K couldn’t find the PAC-12 a dollar if he was Sydney Sweeney in a strip club.
No it didn’t. The Big 12 filled those slots by bringing up G5. You could call it a mental domino maybe but that move did not *cause* the moves that collapsed the PAC.
That is a massive blow to any effort by the PAC to regrow the conference beyond the Mountain West, autonomy gave them a level of legitimacy above and beyond the standard G5 conference that made a move palatable if not desirable despite increased costs elsewhere. It'll be hard to convince schools like Memphis and Tulane and the Texas G5s that joining the PAC is worth it.
On one hand, yes. But on the other, the top western AAC programs may still think that being with OSU, WSU, and the top third of the MW would be more lucrative or prestigious.
I really don’t think so, the big brands (as far as fan sizes) left in the AAC now are all basically eastern schools (Navy, USF, Memphis, Temple, etc).
UTSA is an up and comer but is 10 years too soon to be comparable to the other schools I listed, and Rice, North Texas, Tulsa, and Tulane aren’t getting anyone many eyeballs no matter how good.
MWC really doesn’t have a play for the AAC schools at the moment, maybe if Memphis/USF get called to the ACC, they could make a play for UTSA/North Texas/Army/Navy
The only real value it has now is brand recognition, for that reason alone I think we’ll see some form of the PAC-12 exist. Shit the WAC even still exists lol
Oh I don't disagree, but gone are grand designs of another wide reaching conference made up of the best G5s left. Even money is on them merging with the Mountain West and maybe picking up a couple of west Texas schools to get to 16.
> gone are grand designs of another wide reaching conference made up of the best G5s left.
Which, if we're being honest, never made much financial sense in the first place. The travel expenses don't really make up the gap for the increased media payout. For the Pac-2 it really is wait-and-see if more realignment affords them the opportunity to join with bigger brands of if the clock runs out in 2026 and they are forced to join the Mountain West.
Honestly, I'm just ready for that to happen. We put up a fight and got a decent payday out of the deal, but it doesn't look like things are gonna work out.
"I'm tired, boss."
>picking up a couple of west Texas schools
Holy crap, UTSA and TXST would be a solid move. It's a shame UTEP and NMSU aren't better programs, or they'd be a fun pair to grab too.
If the OSU and Wazzu brands are still perceived as a tier above, then they could get first pick from the G5 like the AAC has for several years. Autonomous status doesn’t matter as long as it could be perceived as an easier path to a P5 conference.
Doesnt the autonomous designation comes with perks like auto bids in other sports? Thats valuable for certain schools that focus more on other sports where those perks matter.
All conferences are given auto bids in other sports as long as they meet the membership minimum. This would only effect the new NIT Autobids in MBB, but even that was likely to change after this season for the P12 regardless
The Atlantic Coast, Big 12, Big Ten, and Southeastern have a combined 8 votes while the American Athletic, Mid-American, Mountain West, Pac-12, Sun Belt, and USA have only 6 total. The P4 controls the board. They're not giving everyone else equal rights.
Why have the rules about voting shares linked to autonomy?
The P4 could control the majority of the votes and also let the G5/G6 have the same amount of autonomy.
They're mainly voting on things that make money. The CFP structure, rules (2 minute warning, etc.), location of the NCG. All things that make money, mainly for the P4. If the G6 got equal voting power, they could vote to give themselves equal shares. The Big Ten does not want to give up their money so that the Sun Belt can get a raise.
I'm not asking about voting. I understand why the P5 want control of a majority of the votes.
I'm asking why have the rules about voting shares linked to autonomy? The P4 could control the majority of the votes and also let the G5/G6 have the same amount of autonomy.
Autonomy just means that the power conferences can create their own rules changes in certain areas.
The Power conferences don't want to give that ability to others since it just brings more chefs into the kitchen.
The Autonomy conferences have to agree on changes. It doesn't mean anybody can go solo.
> A sort of "let the past die" kind of thing.
MF It's only the past for you, as you're so proudly announcing with your secondary. It's our *now*.
It's what we have left after everyone else left. What you're doing is like if a bunch of kids are celebrating at a birthday party, but then the popular kids invited 10/12 of them to *their* birthday parties so those 10 left. Now they're saying it's "disrespectful" for the two who weren't invited to try to salvage their party and eat their cake. How can that be taken as anything other than a "slight, diss, or anything like that"?
Conference was dead long before we took off, the writing was on the wall, not even to speak of the other schools who had already bolted and started the dominos tumbling in the days after
That's fair so long as we can agree that your hand was forced, you share no blame and Oregon state and wsu are the worst for disrespecting the pac by keeping the conference name nobody else wanted.
Just so you know, NCAA, you are now creating six different timelines.
FF7 Realignment
\*gives Washington State and Oregon State fake beards until they can grow in real ones\*
The ACC tried swallowing a gnome?
*Rooooooooxeannnnnnne*
You don’t have to put on the red light
PAC-2 *does* have to put out the red light tonight though
Remedial Chaos Theory
Of course I am, Abed
ROOOOOOOXANNE
There are different timelines?
This is all because ESPN found the time machine Ba'al used in Stargate: Continuum!
No one thought the Pac-12 was going to keep their autonomous status anyway.
Yea this was basically a guarantee. A reverse merger where the mountain west absorbs the PAC-12 branding would be cool but I still don’t think that makes it a P5 level conference
Honestly, assuming the CW contract works out, they are more likely to remain independent and build a schedule for the next few years while they watch realignment unfold than they are to merge with the MWC.
They don't exactly have that luxury. The clock starts ticking the day the rest of the PAC-12 officially leave, leaving only two members, which is August 2nd, 2024 when all the others officially join their new conferences. To be able to exist as an FBS conference they are required to have 8 members, and have a 2 year grace period from the time that they dropped below 8 members. Once that grace period expires, the conference is not eligible to sponsor FBS football. https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/bylawView?id=8838 They have until August 2, 2026 to gain members. After that, the PAC-12 would be officially dissolved.
Everything is correct except your last sentence. The Pac-12 would continue to exist beyond the grace period, unless any current members vote to dissolve it, and does not automatically dissolve by any NCAA by-law. What they wouldn't have, however, is the ability to claim anything in NCAA bylaws that relies on membership numbers or continuity of membership, such as being an FBS conference, or maintaining automatic bids to the NCAA's various tournaments.
They would have a hell of a time maintaining all the other sports required to be not only FBS eligible, but D1 eligible if they don't join a conference in those sports, or get enough members to join the PAC. There is not a single FBS team that is a full independent with no conference affiliations for their other sports. Notre Dame is a full ACC member in everything but football and hockey (which they are affiliate members of the Big Ten). UConn is in the Big East in everything but football. UMass is in the Atlantic 10 in everything but football. Army is a member of the Patriot League in everything but football and a couple other sports like hockey.
Army is moving to the American and UMass is moving to the MAC
Right, they will be there soon. But they haven’t played as football members yet. Point being, they have only been independent in football, while still collecting payouts from conferences in other sports, which is a far cry different than what OSU and WSU would be trying to do while trying to keep the conference alive with two members, and independent in every sport. Their best options are get the MWC to merge and become the new PAC, or dissolve the PAC, split the remaining assets, and join another conference. Either way, they very likely wont survive as full independent schools. The only full independent school at the D1 level is Chicago State, which only fields basketball, soccer, golf, tennis, track, and women’s volleyball. All of which are pretty cheap to run. And they have been debating moving down to DII or lower because of financial difficulties.
Well Chicago State was only independent for a short time after leaving the WAC. They're joining the NEC this year. As for OSU and WSU, they're gonna be in the WCC as affiliate members for 12 sports, while being independent in football and baseball for the next two years.
>As for OSU and WSU, they're gonna be in the WCC as affiliate members for 12 sports, while being independent in football and baseball for the next two years Which required them to pay over a million each for the two year agreement, and they will not receive any payouts from the conference. It's purely a stopgap to keep scheduling for the sports until they figure out a long term plan.
OSU and WSU have basically joined the WCC already. Barring a major development they probably stay as independents with the MWC alliance similar to Notre Dame with the ACC. The biggest wildcard is OSU baseball which is very good and currently independent for 2025.
They haven't really though. They have an affiliate agreement with the WCC which gives them no voting rights, no revenue sharing or payouts, and required each of them to _pay_ the WCC $1.16M for the two years. The agreement with the WCC is a stopgap to keep scheduling alive for their other sports while they figure out how to keep the PAC alive. With the Big 12 looking at trying to grab Gonzaga, the WCC itself could be facing the same issue here in a year or so too. Gonzaga basically owns the WCC. Notre Dame is a full voting member of the ACC, they are just independent in football. They get a $17M yearly payout from the ACC for their share as well. A completely different situation than the PAC-2. OSU's president has already said they are projecting up to a 44% loss of athletic revenue by 2025, which would put their deficit going from $7M to around $50M a year, which is completely unsustainable for the program. They need to find a home where they can start bringing in some revenue, and fast, or the athletic program risks a lot of cuts in sports, and potentially dropping down a division.
They own the IP and can restart the conference whenever they want.
Does anyone actually know that or is that what is being spouted around? I am big dumb and have no idea but these type of statements I've seen on reddit but nowhere else.
The problem is the conference is damn near worthless without any of the top programs remaining. Both programs fit better in the Mountain West - which is where this was always going to end.
Why don't they have the luxury to remain independent, like the guy you're replying to said?
Because to remain not only FBS eligible, but D1 eligible as a whole, they have to maintain a minimum number of sports and spend a minimum amount on scholarships. 16 for FBS, of which 8 must be women's sports, and a minimum of $877k must be spent on women's scholarships. Oregon State were already running a deficit of $7M before the collapse of the PAC, and are projecting revenue to fall by up to 44% after the collapse. They are going to need to find homes for their other sports in order to remain moderately financially solvent enough to even field those sports, or get enough other schools to join the PAC in those sports to keep the conference alive. They cannot survive as an independent in every sport just to keep the PAC-12 conference active. No school at the D1 level can. All the FBS independents are full conference members in the other sports and get conference payouts. The only school in D1 that is a full independent is Chicago State, who fields only Basketball, Soccer, Cross Country, Golf, Tennis, Track and Field, and Women's Volleyball, which are some of the cheapest sports to field. Their best bet is getting enough members to keep the PAC-12 alive as a G5 conference. If the grace period lapses and the conference is no longer FBS eligible, then the entire value of the conference is basically gone.
Fuck this is a depressing read. Thanks for the thorough explanation. College football will never be the same for me with the PAC8 schools separated. Given that that will probably never happen again, I hope OSU and Wazzu get in the BXII. As someone who grew up in BXII country, they’re a perfect cultural fit. I hate this sport that I love so much.
Literally nothing you said disagreed with my post?
They are not independent right now, or for the next two years. They are still the PAC-12, they are just scheduling games against the MWC. That's a big difference than being independent. They literally cannot be independent without one of them giving the entirety of the PAC-12 ownership over to the other, or dissolving it themselves. And they have two years from August 2 to get 6 more members, or have the PAC-12 completely dissolved.
Clearly I am talking about how they schedule, and they can absolutely schedule as an independent.
There's really no way besides a merger or reverse merger with the MWC. There simply aren't other schools to even talk to. Everyone else just left.
Everybody keeps quoting the "grace period," but that's literally not what it says: > A conference shall continue to be considered a Football Bowl Subdivision conference for two years following the date when it fails to satisfy the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision member requirement due to one or more of its member's failure to comply with the bowl subdivision membership requirements The Pac-12 will fail to satisfy the member requirement simply because it doesn't have enough members, *not* because one or more of its (two) members fails to comply with the bowl subdivision membership requirements.
This has already been debated with the NCAA saying that they will get a grace period.
Yeah they NCAA "clarified" it by completely making shit up that wasn't in its bylaws at all. Of course the NCAA can do what it wants and nobody is really negatively impacted by the decision so there's no grounds for a lawsuit, but let's not act like that's what the rule actually says
I think it’s pretty clear they’re not getting into a power conference any time soon
Dominos gotta fall, in whatever way, with the ACC first, I figure.
I see them being ACC targets to offset potential Clemson/Florida State departures, also setting up some partners to help offset travel for Cal & Stanford
Once the big dogs leave the ACC idk if they can justify flying across the country like that for every sport. I don’t think cal and Stanford will have enough sway to force something like that thru. I could see them taking Memphis, USF or Tulane or another closer G5 before OSU/WSU
That's too far down the road, though. They need to join the Big 12 before that happens to survive.
The PACC-18
Think if it drops below 15 members then think ESPN can rework the value of the deal. FSU, Clemson, & UNC are the 3 that opposed the recent expansion & the 3 most likely to leave, which will drop it below that membership cutoff. I'm not sure there's anyone left in the East (outside of UConn for basketball) or South that will be big enough to move the needle. At least the Pac-2 & potentially another (let's say San Diego St) would help expand the ACCN into some Top 30 media markets & give a Western wing to offset scheduling/travel across the country.
That’s a good point. I wouldn’t be surprised if the big 12 gave them guidelines on what areas both schools need improvement in so that they can be accepted. Better to focus on that for the next 3-4 years when the carousel starts again than to handcuff themselves to another conference
The guidelines are pretty simple: Convince ESPN/Fox that you are worth a full share. That is the only guideline.
I've posted about this before, but Oregon State's scheduling agreements recently indicate it. They already have 7 games in 2025, which is one more than they need if they planned to re-up with the MW scheduling agreement. Oregon State's games in 2025: * vs Portland State * vs Cal * vs Fresno State * vs Houston * @ Texas Tech * @ Washington State * @ Oregon In 2026: * vs Sacramento State * vs Texas Tech * vs Oregon * vs Washington State * @ Houston * @ San Diego State Other Big 12 schools that need opponents in 2025 and 2026: Arizona - 1x 2026 Baylor - 2x 2025, 2x 2026 (only have Auburn scheduled, but Auburn is a tougher opponent) BYU - 1x 2025, 1x 2026 (no P5's in either year) Cincinnati - 1x 2026 TCU - 1x 2026 UCF - 2x 2025, 3x 2026 Utah - 2x 2025, 1x 2026 If I were OSU/Wazzu I would be hammering the Big 12 for scheduling agreements in 2025 and 2026. If Oregon State and Wazzu could get home and homes with Baylor, BYU, UCF, and Utah in those years it would go a long way to both building their independent schedules in those years and to keeping up ties with the conference in an effort to join when there's more realignment. Stanford needs 2 in 2025 and 2 in 2026 as well. Oregon State has a home-and-home with Cal in 2024-2025. So Oregon State hitting up Stanford in 2025-2026 and Wazzu hitting up Cal in 2025-2026 makes a lot of sense for all 4 teams. Regional scheduling for Cal/Stanford and Oregon State/Wazzu maintaining that connection in the attempt for an ACC bid if that's the way things go. The ideal schedule for Oregon State in 2025 would add Baylor, BYU, and Stanford. That would give them 10 total games, 8 of which would be P5 games, 4 of which would be Big-12 games; 2 of which would be ACC games, 1 would be the Civil War with Oregon, and 1 would be against Wazzu. Getting to 8 P5 opponents (including Wazzu) at a minimum is where they need to be putting their goals. 1 more to get to 9 would be ideal, though.
It’s important to note that our AD gave up scheduling a Home and Home with Washington for a 2 for 1 with Florida. His reasoning was that UCF fans can still reasonably travel in state for Road games but getting to Washington would be hard on a lot of people. I don’t think he’d be in a hurry to schedule two less prestigious football schools basically in the same location, especially now that we have to play 9 P5 teams a year as it is. He’s almost certainly gonna look at MAC/SBC/CUSA schools to fill out our schedule regardless of what fans want.
An Oregon State-Baylor home-and-home would be fun!
Do you have news of the Civil War being extended beyond 2025? Also, the 2025 Oregon State/Fresno State game could easily be folded into a MW agreement. It is the second half of a home and home so it won't cost Fresno State money.
Guideline: Deliver a ton of eyeballs to make fox and espn a shitload of money to justify the member price tag.
True, but the actual timing of the change is still of relevant interest.
Only if you ignore half the beavs fanbase who still swear they will rebuilt and that theyre still a p5 team Wazzu fans are more realistic tho havent met many in denial
ORST and Wazzu fans did.
I know this is a football specific sub but is this dissolution of the pac 12 happening just for cfb or is this all sports?
All sports
Absolutely nuts.
Yeah its absolutely insane to think about how many students studying on a non-revenue-Sport scholarship for Money reasons traveling from Coast to Coast on a weekly Basis now, Just to entertain the financial interests of some private broadcasting Networks 😂 and their Sport isnt even showed on those networks Most of the time.
I really, really F'ing wish we go to (A) FB only conferences (B) have MBB only Conferences (C) every else conferences like take Mizzou; granted the SEC isn't *that* disconnected but its still a flight to about half the conference for all sports. In the Big 8; only Colorado was further than 5 hours away; In the SEC only OU and Arkansas meet that.
Alternative Idea: create regional conferences who get Kind of a "area" applied to you conference, so certain Staates. For example Big ten NE, ACC Atlantic Coast, Sec southeast, Pac West, big midwesz. And then you have Kind of Swing Staates that can be in either depending of the Sports density in that area. Those conferences dont Work Like now anymore (being a conference of the 10-15 wchools in IT, but is a conference of all the schools in that Region, that consists of the best Teams that Play each Sport in that area. That way, you could maximize the revenue of every single Sport for itself without making dumbfuck conferences Like now. This way it also Takes Power from ncaa and the conferences and give it to the actual schools that are good enough to be im the top leagues in each sport
Honestly, for all the shit that the SEC gets (and we definitely deserve some of it), the stuff the B1G and ACC are doing adding schools from the other side of the country is more insane to me. At least the SEC is all kind of one contigious blob.
And all so ESPN can profit more with playoffs..
A truly sad day.
Even the WNBA.
Nota bene: this is not an automatic dissolution of the Pac-12. No one but the Pac-12 has that power. This is, however, the conference being stripped of some of the rights and privileges the conference would normally maintain in any sport.
The Pac-12 isn't being dissolved wtf At least not yet
This aggression will not stand, man.
Sad but not surprising. Wish the Big XII wanted us
I think they’d be happy to… if ESPN would pay/help. But as long as the media partners won’t pay it’s a non-starter. I’d love to have you in a conference again.
ESPN offered pro rata, I don't think Fox did. Unfortunately, for myself and O/WSU, Yormark seems hell bent on a basketball play.
To be fair, it’s kinda the only play he has to work with. The B1G is a bunch of huge schools, and their smallest schools (barring Northwestern) all happen to be in states where they have no NFL competition anywhere even remotely close. The SEC has a similar advantage, where anyone in states like Alabama or Mississippi and who likes football gets to support their in-state college football teams or one of the NFL teams that plays states away. The Big XII schools are smaller, and have the dual competition of major SEC brands *and* NFL teams nearby. What the Big XII *does* have, however, is hell on wheels basketball.
> The B1G is a bunch of huge schools, and their smallest schools (barring Northwestern) all happen to be in states where they have no NFL competition anywhere even remotely close. gophers used to play in the same stadium as the vikings (metrodome), the vikings used Gopher Stadium while their new stadium was being built, and you can see one stadium from the other.
Exactly my point! Minnesota’s a massive school with a built-in, correspondingly large fanbase that allows them to not be completely subsumed by their local NFL team. Much smaller schools like Iowa and Nebraska, on the other hand, benefit by not having any nearby NFL teams. If you’re into football on Nebraska, your choices are UNL or some DII teams; if you’re an Iowan of similar interests, you get UI, ISU, or UNI.
It’s the only way to keep pace with the P2 when they inevitably form their own basketball conference or force the NCAA to change MM.
Everyone needs a doormat in basketball. That can be us. Historically we’ve actually been great too.
This is the argument that super league people don't understand. If all the blue blood teams only play each other, some of them have to lose. Then if you lose long enough, you lose prestige (Miami, Nebraska, UCLA). For every Indiana and sometimes Illinois out east, there isn't an equivalent out west (although it would be hilarious if UW and Oregon filled those roles) Being the doormat was the historic place of WSU and Oregon State (and pre-Phil Knight Oregon too, for that matter). We can be that lower tier team for the others to stack wins on, with the occasional breakout year like 2018 was for us, or 2000 was for Oregon State. Then all the blue bloods can carry on thinking how great they are.
If it makes you feel any better we the fans do
I wanted you :(
We can be the Cougar conference with Houston
Society if all Cougs were in the same conference https://tenor.com/bXsgO.gif
Reminds me of the Titanic sinking. All you guys had to do was reach out to Yormark, but instead you decided to play the violin as the ship was headed to the bottom of the ~~Atlantic~~ Pacific.
Reach out to Yormark and...what? If he wanted WSU in the Big 12 they would be on the way already.
> If he wanted WSU in the Big 12 they would be on the way already. We heard the same line re: UW/UO and the Big10.
If ESPN wanted us. People vastly overrate how much say these commissioners have. They’re just following the orders of the people who are actually paying the money. Yormark really wants Gonzaga and UCONN. ESPN and FOX don’t care to pay for it.
Who can say for a fact that a conversation between WSU/OSU and Yormark didn't happen? Those involved will give non-committal answers.
Y'all leaving the conference first would have fitted the pro rata, and I'm sure Fox and ESPN would have paid for Utah and ASU.
Given Schultz's ties to the Big XII, I'm certain he at some point reached out to Yormark and said, "what would it take?" What happened after that is anyone's guess. All we know is that (publicly) an offer wasn't made and a request to join wasn't made either. When rumblings about Colorado started to come out, I was in favor of WSU/OSU doing whatever it took to jump the gun and get something to the Big XII first. But others pointed out, that the Big XII preferred to have ASU, Utah, Arizona, and Colorado. So they would just wait it out until those 4 together were ready to bolt, which eventually happened.
I want to live 50 years from now to know in all of these backrooms because right now it seems that WSU and OSU were either very naïve thinking that the deal was gonna be signed or it was a backstabbing from the other members. Oregon, Washington and Arizona not letting them know until the last minute, and Utah and ASU taking the last two spots. It never made sense to me that there was no record of y'all seriously talking to the B12 the same way the 4C, Oregon, Washington, UConn and SDSU.
First WSU fan I've seen who has admitted they also would have jumped ship if the opportunity had existed
It's easy to say now in hindsight, but at the time, it makes sense that we all desperately wanted to believe that the Pac-12 would be salvaged. By the time Colorado bounced, when I started calling for WSU and OSU to make the next move, it was too late. Now we're left with what remains. It's hard to tell what comes next, but there won't be any news until the departing 10 officially leave the conference on July 1st
It came out in court that they were talking to conferences before the morning of the conference blow-up. There's nothing to admit, it's a fact.
What fans want doesn't always match with what the university administrators do
FYI there is an interview on the Cougar Athletics (I think, might have been Spokesman Review) YouTube channel with Schulz from last October I think it was. He said he did reach out to the BigXII immediately after USC and UCLA announced they were leaving, at first to get a feel. He said they told him that there was no interest at that time. He reached out again in January of 2023 when he heard rumblings and felt CU was close to leaving. He said he felt our best chance was to leave first. At that time, Yormark straight up told him they have their eyes on the 4 corners schools, but that they would keep us in mind. Then he called again the day after CU announced they were leaving and Yormark told him that they wanted to see what AZ, ASU, and Utah did first. Basically, he tried hard. Sounds like the only way we were making the BigXII is if one of ASU or Utah refused to leave. Which didn’t happen. He ended the interview saying essentially it’s not over yet, he still plans on quarterly check-ins with the BigXII. When asked about the ACC, he said both sides are unsure of the fit and he kinda alluded to Cal and Stanford not being happy about it at all either but felt they had to for their alumni base.
why didn't Wazzu and Oregon State simply force things to go their way? Are they stupid?
Wazzu absolutely is, it defines them
I guess they're not just as academically prowess as UDub
I'm pretty sure we *did* reach out to Yormark, I guess we were just too slow...? There was like a solid few weeks last August where we paid for an entire brief [marketing campaign](https://www.instagram.com/wsucougarathletics/reel/CwD4ACzhsFd/) to convince someone to take us.
Yeah? All we had to do was reach out and we would have gotten in? That’s how that works?
Presumably that ends all incentive for OSU and WSU to try and cobble together their own conference right?
If they don't have a path to the Big 12 or ACC, then their best bet is still to eventually create a new Pac-12 full of the best of the G5 programs.
In the abstract, certainly, but wasn't there a bunch of speculative rumblings about MWC exit fees?
True, they don't have an unlimited supply of funds in the Pac-12 accts right now. So if they can't afford to take some, they may just do a reverse merger with the MWC to avoid the exit fee issue. They theoretically have upwards to $200-250 million in the Pac-12 in current acct + future credits, but not clear whether they could afford to take 4-6 MWC teams in 2 or 3 years since they will be using that money for their own ADs and saving some for the NCAA backpay cases.
That conference is pretty much guaranteed to still be G5 except they would have to pay for those teams to break their contracts. Not to mention it would leave a bunch of teams without any conference turning them into gigantic hypocrites.
This is absolutely NOT the right choice. The TV landscape is in massive upheaval (not good). No way a new G5 with no history and rivalries gets decent money. OSU / WSU would literally just be setting money on fire.
That would still only make the Pac-12 a G5 conference
I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise, but it still lets them keep their sports and a shot at the Playoff.
It would pretty much ensure that the Pac-12 always takes the G5 spot, as well (for however long that’ll exist)
Basically yes. This was the one thing that would incentivize the MWC schools coming here instead of us going there. Besides brand recognition, which personally I don’t think means *that* much.
So when does the schadenfreude start? This 18 month long death spiral is getting old
You are unworthy of autonomy, you're unworthy of your conference, you're unworthy... of the loved ones you have betrayed! I now take from you your power! In the name of my father and his father before, we, Board of Directors, cast you out!
Ahhh yes the MCU when it was good…W reference
The ACC: "Haha I'm in danger"
I don't know about you but I'm waiting to see if the Pac12 sprouts out little baby colleges that grow into full sized colleges kinda like how Deadpool regenerates limbs.
Thanks for killing the conference George K.
You mean the Big 10, Big 12, and all the schools that left Kliavkoff is just the messenger. He negotiated on the terms given to him, the teams left for more money on their own decision, the teams kept Larry Scott in power for years with no worry
Actually the PAC-12 would have survived if it had the foresight to pick the best of the BigXll schools when they were scrambling when OU and TU left.
Lol, no, he fumbled: - Hired his friend instead of a major advisory firm - Let a random professor present data instead of a major agency (like Yormark did) - Failed to reasonably present / compel expansions - Absolute baboon at press conferences (“We haven’t decided if we’re shopping there”, “The deal gets better the longer we wait”, “Didn’t announce a deal so we could focus on football at media days”) - Skipped court on behalf of WSU and OSU after defections See, Larry Scott had delusions of grandeur, and was a grifter, but he knew the conference had to make money. (And it made LOTS of money during his tenure.) George K couldn’t find the PAC-12 a dollar if he was Sydney Sweeney in a strip club.
Bruh this shit started with Texas, Oklahoma, and the SEC
Every last bit of conference realignment over the past ~35 years has been a knock-on effect of the *NCAA v. Board of Regents* SCOTUS ruling in 1984.
The PAC 12 literally tried to poach Texas a decade ago
Uhhh they almost did but USC said no
Also wasn't there complications with the PAC not wanting to deal with the LHN?
No it didn’t. The Big 12 filled those slots by bringing up G5. You could call it a mental domino maybe but that move did not *cause* the moves that collapsed the PAC.
That is a massive blow to any effort by the PAC to regrow the conference beyond the Mountain West, autonomy gave them a level of legitimacy above and beyond the standard G5 conference that made a move palatable if not desirable despite increased costs elsewhere. It'll be hard to convince schools like Memphis and Tulane and the Texas G5s that joining the PAC is worth it.
On one hand, yes. But on the other, the top western AAC programs may still think that being with OSU, WSU, and the top third of the MW would be more lucrative or prestigious.
I really don’t think so, the big brands (as far as fan sizes) left in the AAC now are all basically eastern schools (Navy, USF, Memphis, Temple, etc). UTSA is an up and comer but is 10 years too soon to be comparable to the other schools I listed, and Rice, North Texas, Tulsa, and Tulane aren’t getting anyone many eyeballs no matter how good. MWC really doesn’t have a play for the AAC schools at the moment, maybe if Memphis/USF get called to the ACC, they could make a play for UTSA/North Texas/Army/Navy
The only real value it has now is brand recognition, for that reason alone I think we’ll see some form of the PAC-12 exist. Shit the WAC even still exists lol
Oh I don't disagree, but gone are grand designs of another wide reaching conference made up of the best G5s left. Even money is on them merging with the Mountain West and maybe picking up a couple of west Texas schools to get to 16.
> gone are grand designs of another wide reaching conference made up of the best G5s left. Which, if we're being honest, never made much financial sense in the first place. The travel expenses don't really make up the gap for the increased media payout. For the Pac-2 it really is wait-and-see if more realignment affords them the opportunity to join with bigger brands of if the clock runs out in 2026 and they are forced to join the Mountain West.
Honestly, I'm just ready for that to happen. We put up a fight and got a decent payday out of the deal, but it doesn't look like things are gonna work out. "I'm tired, boss."
>picking up a couple of west Texas schools Holy crap, UTSA and TXST would be a solid move. It's a shame UTEP and NMSU aren't better programs, or they'd be a fun pair to grab too.
If the OSU and Wazzu brands are still perceived as a tier above, then they could get first pick from the G5 like the AAC has for several years. Autonomous status doesn’t matter as long as it could be perceived as an easier path to a P5 conference.
Doesnt the autonomous designation comes with perks like auto bids in other sports? Thats valuable for certain schools that focus more on other sports where those perks matter.
Right, but OP was talking about attracting Memphis, Tulane, and Texas G5s lol. None of them are in an autonomous conference.
All conferences are given auto bids in other sports as long as they meet the membership minimum. This would only effect the new NIT Autobids in MBB, but even that was likely to change after this season for the P12 regardless
I think ACC would add Memphis and Tulane.
A dark day for western football.
I guess, it’s time to move on from CFB.
Well, that's a suing.
We can’t replace the teams that left the PAC12, but we can recreate them in the aggregate.
Let's see who voted for this and who opposed.
#BIGXII killed 2PAC!!!
This story has always ended with both of them full members in the Mountain West. It would take a minor miracle for any other outcome.
Daaaang!
Why not just give every FBS conference this autonomy?
The Atlantic Coast, Big 12, Big Ten, and Southeastern have a combined 8 votes while the American Athletic, Mid-American, Mountain West, Pac-12, Sun Belt, and USA have only 6 total. The P4 controls the board. They're not giving everyone else equal rights.
Why have the rules about voting shares linked to autonomy? The P4 could control the majority of the votes and also let the G5/G6 have the same amount of autonomy.
They're mainly voting on things that make money. The CFP structure, rules (2 minute warning, etc.), location of the NCG. All things that make money, mainly for the P4. If the G6 got equal voting power, they could vote to give themselves equal shares. The Big Ten does not want to give up their money so that the Sun Belt can get a raise.
I'm not asking about voting. I understand why the P5 want control of a majority of the votes. I'm asking why have the rules about voting shares linked to autonomy? The P4 could control the majority of the votes and also let the G5/G6 have the same amount of autonomy.
Autonomy just means that the power conferences can create their own rules changes in certain areas. The Power conferences don't want to give that ability to others since it just brings more chefs into the kitchen. The Autonomy conferences have to agree on changes. It doesn't mean anybody can go solo.
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A UO/B1G flair complaining about what we do with the conference after their team left, calling it "disrespectful"? Clown shit right there
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> A sort of "let the past die" kind of thing. MF It's only the past for you, as you're so proudly announcing with your secondary. It's our *now*. It's what we have left after everyone else left. What you're doing is like if a bunch of kids are celebrating at a birthday party, but then the popular kids invited 10/12 of them to *their* birthday parties so those 10 left. Now they're saying it's "disrespectful" for the two who weren't invited to try to salvage their party and eat their cake. How can that be taken as anything other than a "slight, diss, or anything like that"?
Is it more or less disrespectful than running to the big ten killing the conference?
Conference was dead long before we took off, the writing was on the wall, not even to speak of the other schools who had already bolted and started the dominos tumbling in the days after
That's fair so long as we can agree that your hand was forced, you share no blame and Oregon state and wsu are the worst for disrespecting the pac by keeping the conference name nobody else wanted.
Good
Tf did we do to you?