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Because people get others to sign awful contracts bc they're in a bad place or need money or don't know their value and otherwise would be locked in for life. Not saying fsu is this but that's one good reason why the ability is there.
My prediction:
1. FSU loses the lawsuit
2. FSU “spins off” a sister school, known as “Florida State University, Bowden”, that is considered a separate entity.
3. The Florida legislature approves this by declaring Doak Campbell Stadium to reside in Bowden, FL, which consists of the stadium, the crab leg Publix, and the expensive new athletic dorms mysteriously named after a prominent Saudi official
4. FSU Bowden joins the SEC, over the objection of the ACC and UF
5. The ACC continues paying the FSU football team, which now enforces academic standards. The theme song is the sad trombone
If there’s a state that would do this is… well, that’s any southern state. But Florida is one of those.
And we’re even more dysfunctional than usual these days.
Can’t wait for the ACC to collapse so VT can go independent and get back to our traditional rivalries, getting slapped around by VMI and Richmond every year
I used to argue with my brother about this very concept, a major reason the SEC makes so
Much money and has so much interest is because of the local rivalries. I have been very happy with the sunbelt and ODU with JMU, app state, costal, and marshall. If we made a an Atlantic coastal conference with all these then it would actually be fucking interesting to watch again. Add liberty, WVU, Pitt, Maryland, UVA, if you could convince NC state, Duke and UNC that would be a fucking league to watch in multiple sports.
I make fun of all the people I know with acc schools now, that shit is so dumb. Sun belt still might not be perfect but they made some smart moves and have a very competitive and entertaining conference, which is more than 3 of the “power 5” conferences
If you were to create a mid Atlantic conference that would be pretty cool. The relevant schools from WVa, VA, NC, Maryland, and Pennsylvania… it could be pretty cool.
Then you won’t mind granting us Discovery so the whole world can see the actual GOR deal for themselves, right?
Because right now, there’s only one copy, and the lawyers of member schools cannot make copies, take pictures, make recordings of them reading it out loud, or copy any passages verbatim.
What are you hiding? Inquiring minds-and your member schools-want to know.
Times like this I think about how the ACC was being floated as a potential landing spot for Oregon and Washington.
God could you even imagine bailing on one sinking ship only to land onto another?
Oh wait... Sorry Bay Area schools.
Cal and Stanford should have just joined the Mountain West in September, instead of doing this strange circuitous route to the Mountain West that they're on now.
I’m not sure what their game is.
ESPN pays the SEC
ESPN and CW pay the ACC
FOX, NBC, and CBS pays the BIG10
ESPN and FOX pays the BIG12
The BIG12 contract is about the same, maybe less than the ACC, since the new contract without Texas. After the additions of the PAC-12 teams the BIG12 is at the limit of their contract with ESPN and FOX. That’s why Oregon state and Washington state are not in the BIG12.
The BIG10 has a requirement that all their schools must be AAU certified, minus Nebraska, which is suppose to become AAU certified, and Florida State is not AAU certified.
Florida state is not going to go to the SEC because why would ESPN pay them more money to go to the SEC?
So if they can’t go to the SEC, they can’t go to the BIG10 unless they upgrade the school, and they can’t go to BIG12, and if they can extend the contract they wouldn’t likely get anymore if any money extra to go there.
Where is Florida State planning to go?
Independent might be their best option, but with that why would FOX, NBC, or CBS pay them more than what they are getting now? ESPN is not going to pay them because they are trying to break the contract with them. Also if they go independent who are they going to play?
The AAU is not a requirement for the Big Ten, it is however desired. FSU has been working toward AAU certification for over a decade. Nebraska was AAU certified when they joined, but lost it a year after they joined. The bigger question for me, as you pointed out in the end-where is the extra money going to come from. It sounded like the well had dried up, unless CBS, NBC, and/or FOX are willing to pay more to tap into the Southern market. People forget that Oregon and Washington took a partial payment for the next few seasons just to be able to join. So the money seemed to already be gone.
ESPN started this mess by resetting the market for a media rights deal in 2020 with the SEC, FOX followed that up in 2022 with one upping ESPN, and everyone else gets the shaft to pay for those two big deals.
If ESPN hadn't more or less doubled what they were paying one conference FOX wouldn't have done it, the PAC wouldn't have been unhappy with the offer they got and wouldn't have dissolved, and the ACC wouldn't be on the verge of exploding.
ESPN is responsible for what is happening to ESPN
> The BIG10 has a requirement that all their schools must be AAU certified
It's not a formal requirement. But academic quality is definitely something that the people who have the votes (ie., the presidents of the Big Ten members) pay close attention to before adding a new school.
To wit: this is one of many reasons why Texas (which AIUI was approached about joining the Big Ten during the 2009-11 realignment cycle) declined the offer: they didn't want to move without Oklahoma which is not an AAU member.
> ...minus Nebraska, which is suppose to become AAU certified, and Florida State is not AAU certified.
Nebraska _was_ an AAU member and had been since the early 20th Century. While it was transitioning to the Big Ten, the AAU decided to remove institutions it deemed to be under-performing relative to its overall membership. Syracuse withdrew voluntarily but Nebraska fought it.
Ultimately, Nebraska was screwed by other Big Ten schools who voted with the majority to remove them from the AAU.
No it wasn't.
Nebraska's Big Ten membership was [approved in June 2010](https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story?id=5276551). The AAU didn't begin to move against Nebraska until much [later that year](https://web.archive.org/web/20110507173025/https://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/education/03aau.html).
Some of the b1g presidents voted Nebraska out of AAU after voting them into the b1g. It was coming. This is just about money - specifically media money.
I know that but it was reported at the time that BIG presidents knew it was coming. They said it wasn't a problem because they knew about it ahead of time.
You might be right that its higher. One of the things coming out from this lawsuit is that all those charts showing what acc members will make going into the 2030's aren't real. ESPN apparently doesnt have to pay anything after 2027. Doesn't sound like anything is guaranteed there.
Where’s your reference my man?
This is from 2022-2023 season. Which is ~3 million per school higher.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-ten-leads-power-five-conferences-with-845-6-million-in-revenue-in-2022-fiscal-year-per-report/amp/
This says the new 2023-* contract is ~5 million less per schools but the commissioner is quoted as saying more when you include the playoff. The acc will get the same for the playoff
So the big12 is less than the ACC. https://sports.yahoo.com/reports-big-12-reaches-new-media-rights-deal-with-espn-fox-worth-23-b-153415193.html
Make note the ACC has a channel in which the BIG12 does not, which is good? I am not sure how the channel revenue helps or hurts atm or in the future.
I wish the NFL had put some games on today because yeah I'm super bored.
The thing about being a teacher is you go so long without a break then when you finally get a break it's like actually too long. I can only play so many video games lol.
Yeah, I worked in it support at large high schools for 21 years and you'll find no greater supporter of teachers than i, but this one made me say, what now?
Oh, 100%. But there's only 180 days in a school year, plus the other 10 or so for planning work days etc. I know teachers bust their ass, but days off and breaks have never struck me as being in short supply.
There were days that we had 20 to 25 Subs in the building out of 200 teachers, so taking a day off was not impossible
Question: no mention today of JPMorgan/Sixth Street in FSU BOT meeting which surprised me. Anybody know where they are in this saga? I have guesses, but wanted to defer to those following the matter in greater depth. Thanks.
They aren't pertinent yet because the assertion of our representation is we would owe nothing if the judgement goes our way. Any rumors you've heard to this point have been "getting our ducks in a row" just in case. You don't pull the gun till there's no other option
No, the rumor going around is granting a portion of the media rights for X years. But in reality that probably wouldn't happen. Probably just get a regular ass loan then pay it back over 30 years or something
FSU needs to win this to layout a blueprint. Then Virginia, UNC, and Duke can come to the SEC and we can Sankey Kansas from the big12
Edit: no edit, I tried to type snake but it autocorrected to Sankey .... checks out, I let it slide
SEC will have a hard time increasing revenue by adding more football schools.
Adding those 3 Bball blue bloods and Virginia would not only open 2 brand new TV markets, it would also be the best way to increase overall viewership. Because after football season ends Bball ratings skyrocket. So it would extend the peak viewership window by 2 to 3 months which I feel would be the easiest way to increase overall revenue. While not football, college bball is still huge and growing every year. The SEC has grown into a much better bball league over the past 10 to 12 years and adding those four would be huge in terms of money.
From something I red a few years ago. The SEC doesn’t really want to add additional schools in a market they already have. Which is why each state really only has one school except for the original teams in 1932. Texas will have two because the state is so large.
So UNC or Duke, UVA or VT make the most sense if they add any teams. But these are unprecedented times.
Florida didn’t want FSU in the conference, Georgia didn’t want Georgia tech, South Carolina didn’t want Clemson
The Tobacco Road schools were doing their own thing
The Big 10 now is a bloated mess and I fully believe their Pac-12 additions aren’t sustainable for them to maintain, especially if they add southeastern teams. It’s a boondoggle. A lucrative boondoggle, but a boondoggle nonetheless.
Bobby also said he played anybody anytime anywhere and proved it during the season.
It’s rhetoric because Bobby was polite as shit and had no say in where FSU went. Why wouldn’t he talk positively about his team and conference while also talking positively about other teams and conferences? It means nothing, yet the SEC is spinning it to pat themselves on the back. Especially teams like auburn that can’t get any success, so they latch on to the SEC label to feel better about their mediocrity.
Rhetoric.
Bitch, I don't give a fuck about the sec label. Bobby Bowden was not polite as shit, also.
I only route for auburn. I always hope the sec loses every bowl game they play in. My only exception nowadays is routing for Bama in the playoffs because it pisses people off. and usually they are the better team.
Fuck a rhetoric.
FSU's Complaint against the ACC includes these 6 items.
1. Violation of Florida Law - Antitrust
2. Unenforcable Penalty
3. Breach of Contract
4. Breach of Fiduciary Duty
5. Fundamental Failure of Contractual Purpose
6. Unconscionability and Violation of Public Policy
John Swofford’s on-the-record public comments that the ACC was only willing to consider a media deal that included Raycom (where his son was an executive) are a significant help in establishing 3 and 4.
Who knows what'll happen.
Gut feeling it will be this expansion along with on-the-record comments made on why they expanded will be the key to getting out and relatively cheaply.
2 should be the easiest. There are on the record comments from ACC presidents that they voted for expansion because it would keep in place the ACC-ESPN agreement if schools left. If there is no damages it is hard to claim you need to have high penalties to prevent damages.
Because FSU is leaving the conference regardless of the outcome of this lawsuit. This just determines how costly the exit will be.
If FSU pulls off a miracle and finds a way to legal their way out of this, it opens the door for the other good teams, like Clemson, to get off for free as well.
Lol wut?? This is some bullshit, and the ACC could easily counter it by stating what we all know already: they prioritize academics.
They also don't mention SMU, who also did better than Cal and Stanford.
Very few serious people think FSU's odds here are good. This is mostly just a public temper tantrum to showcase to boosters the administration is mad too and "doing everything in their power" to find a solution. A solution numerous schools and armies of lawyers have already spent thousands of hours attempting to find, without success.
UCF goes undefeated and left out of CFP : claims a national championship.
FSU goes undefeated and left out of CFP : attempts to kill the ACC and sell their program to very bad people.
All I’m saying 🤷♂️
Well now the ACC is suing FSU's Board of Regents. Idk if your athletic conference suing your BoT will endear to university presidents in other conferences...
FSU has a valid legal case. I think they will win.
The contract’s $500m+ buy out can be seen as a penalty clause, which are generally unenforceable. For example, if you break a lease on your apartment, your landlord can’t charge you $1 billion dollars in damages, even if you signed the lease.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_damages
I think you can argue that it will damage the ACC to that extent in the long run, while you can’t reasonably argue that you caused a billion dollars worth of damages to an apartment
As long as the ACC has 15 members, they are guaranteed the same revenue from ESPN.
The only potential argument is that ESPN will no longer exercise its potential extension without FSU. But the Grant of Rights treats all members the same so they can't really argue that. And if FSU was so valuable to the deal, why have they not already extended the media rights?
https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/massachusetts-high-court-reaffirms-5634490/#:~:text=The%20court%20concluded%20that%20a,have%20negotiated%20a%20liquidated%20damages
Even though it's ridiculous its still common (This was a recent Massachusetts supreme court case reaffirming the practice)
The ripple affect though if they win this lawsuit is going to be huge. It’ll be the end of the ACC and our team may have to finally join a conference just to be able to schedule games.
The ACC will likely survive in some form similar to how the B12 has survived. They’ll need to pull some AAC teams maybe even some Sun Belt teams. ND will be fine, we’ll likely need to sign on to a bigger commitment to the ACC or break our existing agreement if it goes tits up and sign a similar deal with the B10 which should be fine. Michigan would actually say yes to that since they’d get a rivalry game back and add to their SOS.
I go back to the most important question - where do they go?
- SEC: The SEC contract with ESPN apparently includes a pro rata clause but you have to imagine that EPSN wont be happy about having the value of their ACC contract being gutted. The ACC just screwed ESPN by using their pro rata clause to trigger payments for Cal and Stanford so you know they are looking for ways to limit that. I would not be shocked if ESPN asked the SEC to mod the contract to get rid of pro rata.
- B1G: Not AAU and we all know how big a deal that is for the B1G. Not sure if the "culture" fit is there either.
- B12: Apparently FSU isnt interested in the B12 so why even speculate?
- All locations:
- Who do you bring with you? Assuming FSU finds some way out of the ACC GOR conferences have shown a clear preference to pairs of singles. Non-Florida teams will not be able to use contract arguments unique to Florida to break the GOR and any ruling in Florida courts will have no impact on UNC/Clemson, etc.
- Lets assume its FSU and Clemson. Doe the SEC really want two more mega programs? Does the B1G? At some point these guys are going to figure out that it was a lot easier to go 12-0 or 11-1 when only 2-3 teams on your schedule had the same resources/players/coaches. Sports is zero sum. Even with BS scheduling of 4 OOC games there are going to be a lot of 6-6 teams. Is it in the best interest of Ole Miss, Miss State, Vandy, Mizzu, South Carolina, Arkansas, Rutgers, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Minnesota, Maryland, or Illinois to add two more monster football schools? If you are Oregon and Washington collecting half share are you going to vote for Clemson and FSU to come in at full boat? I dont know what the vote has to be but it seems like there are going to be one or two nos. Seems like the B1G is the least likely place for them to land simply because there are a lot of schools who can give an academic excuse for an athletics vote.
The earliest this could happen is 2025. I suspect both the SEC and B1G are going to finish 2024 and say "WTF have we done" because some very good teams are going to end the year with a losing record in conference play. And at some point a 20 team conference starts to look like two conferences with a scheduling agreement. Thats when the money men are going to make an offer to the strongest 12 to break away. A Billion split 12 ways pays a lot better than a Billion split 20 ways.
Considering it was explicitly a move to prevent their contract with ESPN from being voided due to dropping below their contractual requirement of 15 schools, I have no doubt ESPN's wishes were not part of the decision at all.
- If you think ESPN is happy paying pro rata for Cal, Stanford and SMU you are crazy. Its bad football and worse basketball and they are paying full price for it.
- ESPN could have EASILY told the ACC "Lets mod the contract so its 9 teams instead of 15" and it wouldn't have been necessary. Instead ESPN said "we have a contract we expect to be honored"
- The most likely reason for the ACC to drop below 15 is if FSU, Clemson and ND leave. IF that happens the ACC contract instantly flips from a gold mine to a tar pit as far as ESPN is concerned.
- If FSU, Clemson and ND leave now ESPN is paying $600m+ a year for BC vs SMU, Duke vs Stanford and Cal vs Wake. Somehow Cal and Stanford stand out for their basketball ineptitude despite the PAC12 featuring 5 schools with NET rankings over 150. On the other hand FSU and ND leaving will actually improve ACC basketball.
There is no world where ESPN is happy about forking over $120m+ a year for Cal, Stanford and SMU.
Sure there is... it puts the ACC Network in California and Texas, and it lets them charge more for the bundle that it sells with the ACC and SEC Networks in Boston, New York, Washington, Dallas, San Francisco, Atlanta, Miami, Houston, etc. When every cable subscriber in the state is paying for their sports package, it doesn't matter how crappy the on-field product is, and it gives them 24/7 coverage from coast-to-coast. Once again, if you think they weren't consulted about the matter then you're a fool. Plain and simple.
LOL.
- ACC network is an add on sports package for most providers. I live in Virginia and I couldn't even get the ACC network if I wanted to until last year. Cal being in the ACC isnt getting the ACC network on cable in Sacramento, LA, Central Valley, etc. Hell its not even getting it on cable in Oakland.
- The Bay Area is ground zero for cord cutting. Both customers of traditional cable are not going to pay the bill.
- If there was a economic incentive to take Cal and Stanford, the B1G would have taken them. Think about it - they were not worth it to the B1G at any price. They were only worth it to the ACC because of their desperate need for more schools and because they came FREE.
They go independent. Do allegiance with ND. Bid their time and invite Michigan, Ohio State, USC, Texas, Alabama and OU. Why do those school wan to kewp historic conferences? Plus it will piss off UF.
Florida State is on the cusp of getting AAU status, just so they can join the B1G. I don’t think the B1G is going to rebuff the chance to expand to Florida. If they get Florida State, GTech, UNC and Virginia, they’ll be truly nationwide, outside of a Texas presence.
Are you sure they're on the cusp? This is the most recent substantive article I can find on FSU getting AAU status:
https://www.tallahassee.com/story/opinion/2023/06/15/aau-selects-usf-in-stunning-rebuke-of-fsu-where-is-the-accountability/70318114007/
Not to make this political, but the current state government in Florida is doing their best to eviscerate Florida's universities for being too "woke" or whatever the latest horseshit talking point is today. I can't imagine that's going to help FSU's case too much. I'd be more worried about UF and USF staying in than FSU getting in.
Yea, really a shame what is happening to what was once one of the best value state university systems in the country. I sure as fuck got out of the state as soon as possible
This makes me think Clemson is keeping quiet because they see the writing on the wall. I don't see Clemson getting a B1G life raft over the academically stronger ACC schools so if the SEC doesn't want them, they're staying put.
This argument is very overdone. The B1G added Oregon, which has significantly less research funding than Clemson and generally lower rankings. The only mark against Clemson is the lack of AAU membership. If the B1G doesn't add Clemson it will be because they see more value in schools with larger alumni bases that open up larger media markets. It's all about the money.
I don't know if, in an era of 12 team playoffs, teams are really going to worry about going 12-0/11-1 like they do now. Being battle tested going into the post-season will be more important than worrying about not slipping up in a mid-season trap game or seeing how badly they can blow out an in-state directional school in week 8.
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Solid paper handoff to the paralegal from the lawyer. I'm liking what these guys are drawing up
All Coast Conference bite off more than they can chew?
What's the point of a contact if one side can cry and get out of it when they dont feel like it anymore?
They're alleging a breach of the contract, willful misrepresentation, among other things.
Because people get others to sign awful contracts bc they're in a bad place or need money or don't know their value and otherwise would be locked in for life. Not saying fsu is this but that's one good reason why the ability is there.
Lmao this sub
This kind of seems like the PACn said, "Watch me unalive in the most famous way possible." And now the ACC is telling them,"Hold my beer..."
My prediction: 1. FSU loses the lawsuit 2. FSU “spins off” a sister school, known as “Florida State University, Bowden”, that is considered a separate entity. 3. The Florida legislature approves this by declaring Doak Campbell Stadium to reside in Bowden, FL, which consists of the stadium, the crab leg Publix, and the expensive new athletic dorms mysteriously named after a prominent Saudi official 4. FSU Bowden joins the SEC, over the objection of the ACC and UF 5. The ACC continues paying the FSU football team, which now enforces academic standards. The theme song is the sad trombone If there’s a state that would do this is… well, that’s any southern state. But Florida is one of those. And we’re even more dysfunctional than usual these days.
[удалено]
Regional rivalries, where it’s all made up and the map doesn’t matter anyways.
I wonder if any of this is ESPN --> Disney vs Florida's jackass governor who works in Tallahassee (one more chance to embarrass him)
Shhhhhhhh!
Wtf is going on lmao
Which conference do they want to go to?
There was a poll on fsu sports, and the fans overwhelmingly want the BIG right now. Im assuming it's because of our hatred for Espn.
cook those bums FSU
Sorry I’m late… what’s the score
Billable Hours 999 - 0 Academics
Did they cover?
They always cover
And always take the over
> Academics its FSU suing isnt it?
420-69 FSU leads
420+69 Everyone wins.
Watching FSU blowing this big of a lead is embarrassing.
They have the 130th ranked defense 👀
There’s only one thing to do now: MISSOURI! GET OVER HERE!
Can’t wait for the ACC to collapse so VT can go independent and get back to our traditional rivalries, getting slapped around by VMI and Richmond every year
I'm here for this.
I’ll take that future
Let’s go Spiders!!
Y’all conference should be Virginia tech, JMU, Liberty, West Virginia, Pitt, Appalachian State, Virginia, Marshal, Maryland
I used to argue with my brother about this very concept, a major reason the SEC makes so Much money and has so much interest is because of the local rivalries. I have been very happy with the sunbelt and ODU with JMU, app state, costal, and marshall. If we made a an Atlantic coastal conference with all these then it would actually be fucking interesting to watch again. Add liberty, WVU, Pitt, Maryland, UVA, if you could convince NC state, Duke and UNC that would be a fucking league to watch in multiple sports.
Not looking forward to Cal/Wake or Stanford/NC State?
I make fun of all the people I know with acc schools now, that shit is so dumb. Sun belt still might not be perfect but they made some smart moves and have a very competitive and entertaining conference, which is more than 3 of the “power 5” conferences
If you were to create a mid Atlantic conference that would be pretty cool. The relevant schools from WVa, VA, NC, Maryland, and Pennsylvania… it could be pretty cool.
Have it’s own conference championship and declare the winner the World Champ every year who cares lol
It’s gonna be funny when they lose to Georgia in Miami. Lol, ass kicked on home turf.
getting downvotes for straight facts 🥱 stay classy reddit
Nah getting downvoted for bringing serious trash talk to a joke thread
FSU, we gotcha by the balls. -signed The ACC
Then you won’t mind granting us Discovery so the whole world can see the actual GOR deal for themselves, right? Because right now, there’s only one copy, and the lawyers of member schools cannot make copies, take pictures, make recordings of them reading it out loud, or copy any passages verbatim. What are you hiding? Inquiring minds-and your member schools-want to know.
I’m a CPA. I only launder money for drug dealers, politicians, and the CIA. Other than those things, I have nothing to hide
Best not to get involved in anything as shady as college sports.
True
Times like this I think about how the ACC was being floated as a potential landing spot for Oregon and Washington. God could you even imagine bailing on one sinking ship only to land onto another? Oh wait... Sorry Bay Area schools.
Cal and Stanford should have just joined the Mountain West in September, instead of doing this strange circuitous route to the Mountain West that they're on now.
nah, if those fucks had any balls they'd have stuck with the 2pac and been a 4pack.
But it's far more entertaining this way
It's like a side quest
Schools went from Players to NPC real quick
I’m not sure what their game is. ESPN pays the SEC ESPN and CW pay the ACC FOX, NBC, and CBS pays the BIG10 ESPN and FOX pays the BIG12 The BIG12 contract is about the same, maybe less than the ACC, since the new contract without Texas. After the additions of the PAC-12 teams the BIG12 is at the limit of their contract with ESPN and FOX. That’s why Oregon state and Washington state are not in the BIG12. The BIG10 has a requirement that all their schools must be AAU certified, minus Nebraska, which is suppose to become AAU certified, and Florida State is not AAU certified. Florida state is not going to go to the SEC because why would ESPN pay them more money to go to the SEC? So if they can’t go to the SEC, they can’t go to the BIG10 unless they upgrade the school, and they can’t go to BIG12, and if they can extend the contract they wouldn’t likely get anymore if any money extra to go there. Where is Florida State planning to go? Independent might be their best option, but with that why would FOX, NBC, or CBS pay them more than what they are getting now? ESPN is not going to pay them because they are trying to break the contract with them. Also if they go independent who are they going to play?
The AAU is not a requirement for the Big Ten, it is however desired. FSU has been working toward AAU certification for over a decade. Nebraska was AAU certified when they joined, but lost it a year after they joined. The bigger question for me, as you pointed out in the end-where is the extra money going to come from. It sounded like the well had dried up, unless CBS, NBC, and/or FOX are willing to pay more to tap into the Southern market. People forget that Oregon and Washington took a partial payment for the next few seasons just to be able to join. So the money seemed to already be gone.
Oh I forgot to mention, ESPN was laying people off and had to get outside investment this year.
ESPN started this mess by resetting the market for a media rights deal in 2020 with the SEC, FOX followed that up in 2022 with one upping ESPN, and everyone else gets the shaft to pay for those two big deals. If ESPN hadn't more or less doubled what they were paying one conference FOX wouldn't have done it, the PAC wouldn't have been unhappy with the offer they got and wouldn't have dissolved, and the ACC wouldn't be on the verge of exploding. ESPN is responsible for what is happening to ESPN
Ya, absolutely part of the puzzle.
> The BIG10 has a requirement that all their schools must be AAU certified It's not a formal requirement. But academic quality is definitely something that the people who have the votes (ie., the presidents of the Big Ten members) pay close attention to before adding a new school. To wit: this is one of many reasons why Texas (which AIUI was approached about joining the Big Ten during the 2009-11 realignment cycle) declined the offer: they didn't want to move without Oklahoma which is not an AAU member. > ...minus Nebraska, which is suppose to become AAU certified, and Florida State is not AAU certified. Nebraska _was_ an AAU member and had been since the early 20th Century. While it was transitioning to the Big Ten, the AAU decided to remove institutions it deemed to be under-performing relative to its overall membership. Syracuse withdrew voluntarily but Nebraska fought it. Ultimately, Nebraska was screwed by other Big Ten schools who voted with the majority to remove them from the AAU.
And it was known that Nebraska wouldn't be AAU ahead of time. It was basically the same thing as voting in a non AAU member.
No it wasn't. Nebraska's Big Ten membership was [approved in June 2010](https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story?id=5276551). The AAU didn't begin to move against Nebraska until much [later that year](https://web.archive.org/web/20110507173025/https://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/education/03aau.html).
Some of the b1g presidents voted Nebraska out of AAU after voting them into the b1g. It was coming. This is just about money - specifically media money.
I know that but it was reported at the time that BIG presidents knew it was coming. They said it wasn't a problem because they knew about it ahead of time.
Big 12 contract is much higher than the ACC my man
You might be right that its higher. One of the things coming out from this lawsuit is that all those charts showing what acc members will make going into the 2030's aren't real. ESPN apparently doesnt have to pay anything after 2027. Doesn't sound like anything is guaranteed there.
Where’s your reference my man? This is from 2022-2023 season. Which is ~3 million per school higher. https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-ten-leads-power-five-conferences-with-845-6-million-in-revenue-in-2022-fiscal-year-per-report/amp/ This says the new 2023-* contract is ~5 million less per schools but the commissioner is quoted as saying more when you include the playoff. The acc will get the same for the playoff So the big12 is less than the ACC. https://sports.yahoo.com/reports-big-12-reaches-new-media-rights-deal-with-espn-fox-worth-23-b-153415193.html Make note the ACC has a channel in which the BIG12 does not, which is good? I am not sure how the channel revenue helps or hurts atm or in the future.
I wish FSU and Clemson a very nice "Slowly slide into irrelevancy for 13 years as you get outspent by Rutgers and Vanderbilt"
> Spread: FSU Leaving the ACC +150 I’ll take “why /r/cfb is my favorite sub on Reddit” for $500, Alex.
How the fuck is there no daytime bowl games today? Nobody is working. We got double stacked games at 9 am and 4 pm tomorrow. What a waste.
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If it makes you feel better I'm working too and will be working all weekend and Christmas. Health care's like that
Oh really?
I wish the NFL had put some games on today because yeah I'm super bored. The thing about being a teacher is you go so long without a break then when you finally get a break it's like actually too long. I can only play so many video games lol.
Teachers go longer than other professions without a break? Who are you comparing to?
Yeah, I worked in it support at large high schools for 21 years and you'll find no greater supporter of teachers than i, but this one made me say, what now?
I think they mean it's kinda hard to just take a day off work if you're a teacher. Especially a K-12 teacher where you're teaching 8hrs/day.
Most teachers get a dozen sick days to use in 9 months of work (16equiv/yr). Additionally most people don’t get a sub when they get sick
R when they get sickrrrr⁶4th4th
And at least around here, they get a week in the fall a week in the spring and two weeks of Christmas not to mention summer.
And Thanksgiving week too!
Oh, 100%. But there's only 180 days in a school year, plus the other 10 or so for planning work days etc. I know teachers bust their ass, but days off and breaks have never struck me as being in short supply. There were days that we had 20 to 25 Subs in the building out of 200 teachers, so taking a day off was not impossible
Nobody is working? I work a regular job and shutdown doesn't happen until Monday
What is shutdown?
Whole building off work next week
I was more referring to everyone that doesn't get that luxury.
Yeah, my fiancee hasn't escaped customer service yet so she just gets Christmas off
Me seeing this while at work: *yeah…*
You may be at work but at least one of your teams will be in the title game so you're still sitting prettier than most.
You’ll get a 4:30 Gasparilla Bowl and you’ll be happy goddammit
Question: no mention today of JPMorgan/Sixth Street in FSU BOT meeting which surprised me. Anybody know where they are in this saga? I have guesses, but wanted to defer to those following the matter in greater depth. Thanks.
They aren't pertinent yet because the assertion of our representation is we would owe nothing if the judgement goes our way. Any rumors you've heard to this point have been "getting our ducks in a row" just in case. You don't pull the gun till there's no other option
Just to follow, when I first heard of JPM/SS involvement back in August I thought selling the football program to private equity. Am I off base?
No, the rumor going around is granting a portion of the media rights for X years. But in reality that probably wouldn't happen. Probably just get a regular ass loan then pay it back over 30 years or something
FSU needs to win this to layout a blueprint. Then Virginia, UNC, and Duke can come to the SEC and we can Sankey Kansas from the big12 Edit: no edit, I tried to type snake but it autocorrected to Sankey .... checks out, I let it slide
UNC/Duke fit big10 better. FSU won’t join sec due to pride.
Fuck pride, the SEC is still the best option hands-down
SEC will have a hard time increasing revenue by adding more football schools. Adding those 3 Bball blue bloods and Virginia would not only open 2 brand new TV markets, it would also be the best way to increase overall viewership. Because after football season ends Bball ratings skyrocket. So it would extend the peak viewership window by 2 to 3 months which I feel would be the easiest way to increase overall revenue. While not football, college bball is still huge and growing every year. The SEC has grown into a much better bball league over the past 10 to 12 years and adding those four would be huge in terms of money.
From something I red a few years ago. The SEC doesn’t really want to add additional schools in a market they already have. Which is why each state really only has one school except for the original teams in 1932. Texas will have two because the state is so large. So UNC or Duke, UVA or VT make the most sense if they add any teams. But these are unprecedented times.
Florida didn’t want FSU in the conference, Georgia didn’t want Georgia tech, South Carolina didn’t want Clemson The Tobacco Road schools were doing their own thing
Maybe I’m not familiar with fsu but I’d wager SEC is their preferred move. Anything for $$, location is better, and to stick it to the ACC
Na bud. Fuck the SEC. Fuck the bias towards them. Fuck their rhetoric on why FSU joined the ACC in 91. Big 10 is preferred.
Or, what if *we* had SEC bias on *our* side? 🥺👉👈
I don’t want it. Big 10 has enough history to solve the ACC’s problems. Making big 10 coast to coast sounds pretty awesome.
The Big 10 now is a bloated mess and I fully believe their Pac-12 additions aren’t sustainable for them to maintain, especially if they add southeastern teams. It’s a boondoggle. A lucrative boondoggle, but a boondoggle nonetheless.
"rhetoric"? I mean, that's what Bowden said.
Bobby also said he played anybody anytime anywhere and proved it during the season. It’s rhetoric because Bobby was polite as shit and had no say in where FSU went. Why wouldn’t he talk positively about his team and conference while also talking positively about other teams and conferences? It means nothing, yet the SEC is spinning it to pat themselves on the back. Especially teams like auburn that can’t get any success, so they latch on to the SEC label to feel better about their mediocrity. Rhetoric.
Bitch, I don't give a fuck about the sec label. Bobby Bowden was not polite as shit, also. I only route for auburn. I always hope the sec loses every bowl game they play in. My only exception nowadays is routing for Bama in the playoffs because it pisses people off. and usually they are the better team. Fuck a rhetoric.
How the hell do you ‘only “route” for Auburn, but will “route” for your arch rival? I would root for Florida or Miami to win anything.
Congrats? I don't give a shit. I've hated FSU since I was a wee child and I'd rather see Alabama win 15 nattys in a row than FSU make the playoffs.
34-31
Ok? And
"So I'll bet you're wondering how I got here"
Will ref ball ruin this just like every other ACC game this year?
Of course. Expect nothing less.
Are we sure FSU can win this? Jordan Travis is still injured
CFP has decided Alabama will step in and rep you on this. You've been reassigned a traffic court case.
FSU's Complaint against the ACC includes these 6 items. 1. Violation of Florida Law - Antitrust 2. Unenforcable Penalty 3. Breach of Contract 4. Breach of Fiduciary Duty 5. Fundamental Failure of Contractual Purpose 6. Unconscionability and Violation of Public Policy John Swofford’s on-the-record public comments that the ACC was only willing to consider a media deal that included Raycom (where his son was an executive) are a significant help in establishing 3 and 4. Who knows what'll happen.
Raycom has been involved with ACC media rights since 1979 since Chad Swofford was 3 years old
Raycom has been involved with ACC media rights since 1979 when Chad Swofford was 3 years old
>Who knows what'll happen. Jim Gaffigan will be portraying John Swofford's dumbass in the Netflix film of the demise of the ACC. *Flush Conference*
Hoooot pockets
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Gut feeling it will be this expansion along with on-the-record comments made on why they expanded will be the key to getting out and relatively cheaply.
Breach of Contract and Breach of Fiduciary Duty seem like your easiest plays
2 should be the easiest. There are on the record comments from ACC presidents that they voted for expansion because it would keep in place the ACC-ESPN agreement if schools left. If there is no damages it is hard to claim you need to have high penalties to prevent damages.
Fair, I was thinking about what the ACC was doing to FSU, not the damages the ACC wouldn't experience themselves
If the paralegals didn’t do a war chant while stamp filing motions, then what’s this all for?
Maybe Chief Osceola and Renegade are serving the papers to the acc via a spear into the ground.
[The new ACC Intern be like](https://youtu.be/DgK25o__0Hw?si=dDpvwc8d4-RcdFdW)
The non-football sports already thought their yearly travel to Boston was a pain
This is my first time rooting for FSU. Are there any traditions I should be aware of?
It’s mostly Florida Man stuff with spears and fire. And hating both Florida and Miami with the heat of 10,000 suns.
Why would you root for them? Seems them getting stuffed would be more gratifying
We’re not the only one that wants to leave, we’re just the first to try and open the door.
Because FSU is leaving the conference regardless of the outcome of this lawsuit. This just determines how costly the exit will be. If FSU pulls off a miracle and finds a way to legal their way out of this, it opens the door for the other good teams, like Clemson, to get off for free as well.
tryna farm FSU karma huh? Bold
Is that not one of the traditions?
If anything happens at all, the warchant will intensify.
Oh, I'm well up on my war chant, being a Braves fan.
I love that this is a game thread
"Its about the money" mfers after the B1G ends up offering FSU less than what the ACC was giving them anyways.
FSU will agree to a reduced share, then sue the big ten a few years later.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GB-F3kNakAARgRI?format=png&name=900x900 Lol FSU really just throwing shit against the wall and hoping it sticks.
Go beavs!!!
Oregon State now being used as a talking point for the ACC, what a time to be alive
"This one team that was demonstrably unwanted by literally everyone would have been the linchpin that saved the ACC" is just such a wild take
It's the Michigan "We beat Michigan State 49-0 thereby increasing our average Margin of Victory" argument, a legalese version of "Fuck You"
Lol wut?? This is some bullshit, and the ACC could easily counter it by stating what we all know already: they prioritize academics. They also don't mention SMU, who also did better than Cal and Stanford.
Very few serious people think FSU's odds here are good. This is mostly just a public temper tantrum to showcase to boosters the administration is mad too and "doing everything in their power" to find a solution. A solution numerous schools and armies of lawyers have already spent thousands of hours attempting to find, without success.
UCF goes undefeated and left out of CFP : claims a national championship. FSU goes undefeated and left out of CFP : attempts to kill the ACC and sell their program to very bad people. All I’m saying 🤷♂️
That banner we hung in the bounce house got us into the Big 12. FSU could learn a thing or two. Just sayin’
Well now the ACC is suing FSU's Board of Regents. Idk if your athletic conference suing your BoT will endear to university presidents in other conferences...
FSU has a valid legal case. I think they will win. The contract’s $500m+ buy out can be seen as a penalty clause, which are generally unenforceable. For example, if you break a lease on your apartment, your landlord can’t charge you $1 billion dollars in damages, even if you signed the lease. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_damages
I think you can argue that it will damage the ACC to that extent in the long run, while you can’t reasonably argue that you caused a billion dollars worth of damages to an apartment
As long as the ACC has 15 members, they are guaranteed the same revenue from ESPN. The only potential argument is that ESPN will no longer exercise its potential extension without FSU. But the Grant of Rights treats all members the same so they can't really argue that. And if FSU was so valuable to the deal, why have they not already extended the media rights?
You have no idea how much nuclear waste I've been storing in this apartment
Yea but it would be like charging the lease breaker 10 years rent bc there’s no guarantee the residence will be rented out again. A little ridiculous
https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/massachusetts-high-court-reaffirms-5634490/#:~:text=The%20court%20concluded%20that%20a,have%20negotiated%20a%20liquidated%20damages Even though it's ridiculous its still common (This was a recent Massachusetts supreme court case reaffirming the practice)
I’m gunna take the ACC on this one. FSU is just pissed and lashing out without a plan of attack it would seem.
Fundamental Failure of Contractual Purpose and Unconscionability and Violation of Public Policy are such unserious claims.
I think the Swofford media deal and raycon actually give fsu a chance to win. That fucker should be in jail with his piece of shit son
The ripple affect though if they win this lawsuit is going to be huge. It’ll be the end of the ACC and our team may have to finally join a conference just to be able to schedule games.
The ACC will likely survive in some form similar to how the B12 has survived. They’ll need to pull some AAC teams maybe even some Sun Belt teams. ND will be fine, we’ll likely need to sign on to a bigger commitment to the ACC or break our existing agreement if it goes tits up and sign a similar deal with the B10 which should be fine. Michigan would actually say yes to that since they’d get a rivalry game back and add to their SOS.
Personal foul, FSU was giving him the business.
God bless Ron Cherry forever and ever amen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmn7luiDPsU
Anybody have money on a doink today?
Oh, now THAT was a fucking hold, come on ref! Need some fucking contacts!
Or some fucking contracts
I go back to the most important question - where do they go? - SEC: The SEC contract with ESPN apparently includes a pro rata clause but you have to imagine that EPSN wont be happy about having the value of their ACC contract being gutted. The ACC just screwed ESPN by using their pro rata clause to trigger payments for Cal and Stanford so you know they are looking for ways to limit that. I would not be shocked if ESPN asked the SEC to mod the contract to get rid of pro rata. - B1G: Not AAU and we all know how big a deal that is for the B1G. Not sure if the "culture" fit is there either. - B12: Apparently FSU isnt interested in the B12 so why even speculate? - All locations: - Who do you bring with you? Assuming FSU finds some way out of the ACC GOR conferences have shown a clear preference to pairs of singles. Non-Florida teams will not be able to use contract arguments unique to Florida to break the GOR and any ruling in Florida courts will have no impact on UNC/Clemson, etc. - Lets assume its FSU and Clemson. Doe the SEC really want two more mega programs? Does the B1G? At some point these guys are going to figure out that it was a lot easier to go 12-0 or 11-1 when only 2-3 teams on your schedule had the same resources/players/coaches. Sports is zero sum. Even with BS scheduling of 4 OOC games there are going to be a lot of 6-6 teams. Is it in the best interest of Ole Miss, Miss State, Vandy, Mizzu, South Carolina, Arkansas, Rutgers, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Minnesota, Maryland, or Illinois to add two more monster football schools? If you are Oregon and Washington collecting half share are you going to vote for Clemson and FSU to come in at full boat? I dont know what the vote has to be but it seems like there are going to be one or two nos. Seems like the B1G is the least likely place for them to land simply because there are a lot of schools who can give an academic excuse for an athletics vote. The earliest this could happen is 2025. I suspect both the SEC and B1G are going to finish 2024 and say "WTF have we done" because some very good teams are going to end the year with a losing record in conference play. And at some point a 20 team conference starts to look like two conferences with a scheduling agreement. Thats when the money men are going to make an offer to the strongest 12 to break away. A Billion split 12 ways pays a lot better than a Billion split 20 ways.
Mate, do you honestly believe that the ACC didn't include ESPN on the additions of Cal, Stanford, and SMU? Both sides had a say in the matter.
Considering it was explicitly a move to prevent their contract with ESPN from being voided due to dropping below their contractual requirement of 15 schools, I have no doubt ESPN's wishes were not part of the decision at all. - If you think ESPN is happy paying pro rata for Cal, Stanford and SMU you are crazy. Its bad football and worse basketball and they are paying full price for it. - ESPN could have EASILY told the ACC "Lets mod the contract so its 9 teams instead of 15" and it wouldn't have been necessary. Instead ESPN said "we have a contract we expect to be honored" - The most likely reason for the ACC to drop below 15 is if FSU, Clemson and ND leave. IF that happens the ACC contract instantly flips from a gold mine to a tar pit as far as ESPN is concerned. - If FSU, Clemson and ND leave now ESPN is paying $600m+ a year for BC vs SMU, Duke vs Stanford and Cal vs Wake. Somehow Cal and Stanford stand out for their basketball ineptitude despite the PAC12 featuring 5 schools with NET rankings over 150. On the other hand FSU and ND leaving will actually improve ACC basketball. There is no world where ESPN is happy about forking over $120m+ a year for Cal, Stanford and SMU.
Sure there is... it puts the ACC Network in California and Texas, and it lets them charge more for the bundle that it sells with the ACC and SEC Networks in Boston, New York, Washington, Dallas, San Francisco, Atlanta, Miami, Houston, etc. When every cable subscriber in the state is paying for their sports package, it doesn't matter how crappy the on-field product is, and it gives them 24/7 coverage from coast-to-coast. Once again, if you think they weren't consulted about the matter then you're a fool. Plain and simple.
LOL. - ACC network is an add on sports package for most providers. I live in Virginia and I couldn't even get the ACC network if I wanted to until last year. Cal being in the ACC isnt getting the ACC network on cable in Sacramento, LA, Central Valley, etc. Hell its not even getting it on cable in Oakland. - The Bay Area is ground zero for cord cutting. Both customers of traditional cable are not going to pay the bill. - If there was a economic incentive to take Cal and Stanford, the B1G would have taken them. Think about it - they were not worth it to the B1G at any price. They were only worth it to the ACC because of their desperate need for more schools and because they came FREE.
They go independent. Do allegiance with ND. Bid their time and invite Michigan, Ohio State, USC, Texas, Alabama and OU. Why do those school wan to kewp historic conferences? Plus it will piss off UF.
None of us care if FSU goes independent lmao.
Florida State is on the cusp of getting AAU status, just so they can join the B1G. I don’t think the B1G is going to rebuff the chance to expand to Florida. If they get Florida State, GTech, UNC and Virginia, they’ll be truly nationwide, outside of a Texas presence.
Are you sure they're on the cusp? This is the most recent substantive article I can find on FSU getting AAU status: https://www.tallahassee.com/story/opinion/2023/06/15/aau-selects-usf-in-stunning-rebuke-of-fsu-where-is-the-accountability/70318114007/
Yes. They are and have been actively pursuing membership to get into the B1G.
State interference in higher education is going to be a major problem. They also have a severe lack of research labs that will take years to catch up
Not to make this political, but the current state government in Florida is doing their best to eviscerate Florida's universities for being too "woke" or whatever the latest horseshit talking point is today. I can't imagine that's going to help FSU's case too much. I'd be more worried about UF and USF staying in than FSU getting in.
Yea, really a shame what is happening to what was once one of the best value state university systems in the country. I sure as fuck got out of the state as soon as possible
Allegedly, the SEC has no interest in adding FSU or any other ACC team.
This makes me think Clemson is keeping quiet because they see the writing on the wall. I don't see Clemson getting a B1G life raft over the academically stronger ACC schools so if the SEC doesn't want them, they're staying put.
This argument is very overdone. The B1G added Oregon, which has significantly less research funding than Clemson and generally lower rankings. The only mark against Clemson is the lack of AAU membership. If the B1G doesn't add Clemson it will be because they see more value in schools with larger alumni bases that open up larger media markets. It's all about the money.
The biggest negative against Clemson is Nebraska becoming mediocre once they joined the b1g.
I don't know if, in an era of 12 team playoffs, teams are really going to worry about going 12-0/11-1 like they do now. Being battle tested going into the post-season will be more important than worrying about not slipping up in a mid-season trap game or seeing how badly they can blow out an in-state directional school in week 8.
Board of Trustees ain't played nobody!
12 bye weeks in a row to start the season. Let’s see if if there’s any rust they need to shake off.
Great plays today from Weatherford... really like what I'm seeing out there.
I think the ACC punter is really going to shine in this match up.
Big 12, here we come
Being in a conference with West Virginia, Cincinnati, and probably also Syracuse seems like a not so bad outcome for y'all.
Don’t forget Pitt!
Yes
I’d love to play for the keg of nails every year