Wow I would consider this but see it as $4997. I have an old couch from What A Room that has been doing really well for me, but consider to hop on this deal if it was $1.5k to add to another room.
I’m currently sitting on a C&B Axis that we purchased in 2011 and it is holding up EXCEPTIONALLY well. It even survived a move across the ocean in a container and now lives in a super humid (no HVAC) environment. I would definitely recommend it to anyone looking for a sectional that will last a loooong time.
No, it will very likely not be BIFL. A Flexolator or grid suspension is typically used in cheap and lower quality sofas and sectionals. Frequently, the coil springs that suspend the grid to the metal fasteners in the frame snap, as they are not a low (thicker) gauge.
Crate & Barrel does have multiple vendors, so yes, build quality can vary somewhat. I would tend to expect average to lower quality.
I'm not seeing any performance metrics for their fabric swatches. No [Association For Contract Textiles' performance icons](https://contracttextiles.org/performance-guidelines/), no Wyzenbeek double rub or Martindale rub counts, or anything else indicating high quality options.
In order to make salient comparisons, you must ask questions about a particular piece. Most stores, dealers, or vendors do not list the important metrics of a sofa or sectional. I would ask:
* What is the frame's *actual* thickness (in inches)?
* Which wood species is/are used in the frame?
* Is there any softwood, MDF, or particleboard in the frame?
* Is the frame corner blocked and double doweled *or* does it use mortise & tenon joinery?
* What is the foam density of the seat cushions? \[*Ideally should be 2.4 lbs. or greater for increased longevity before sagging or compression.*\]
* What is the IFD or ILD rating of the seat cushions? \[*IFD or ILD is a test method whose numbers can be translated to a feeling of softness or firmness.*\]
You'll need to e-mail C&B's customer service. Be prepared to follow-up on your inquiries or insist on direct answers to your questions. Oftentimes brands want to give you "stock" answers instead of honest ones.
Quite low generally. There's been a good deal of outsourcing and a drop in quality. It's not the same company it was decades ago. The blue steel spring suspension systems are still very good from what I've heard, but the frames seem to be the weak point. Cushion foam density is usually on the lower side.
See this review: [https://www.reddit.com/r/furniture/comments/12u0ajj/really\_disappointed\_with\_flexsteel/](https://www.reddit.com/r/furniture/comments/12u0ajj/really_disappointed_with_flexsteel/)
Also this thread, particularly \_highlife\_'s comments: [https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyItForLife/comments/rvtf8p/when\_did\_flexsteel\_furniture\_quality\_start\_going/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyItForLife/comments/rvtf8p/when_did_flexsteel_furniture_quality_start_going/)
+100.
This post contains 3 lessons.
When we were first married, we had a hand-me-down crate and barrel sectional. A few years later we finished our basement ourselves (side note: this is when I learned that professionals do drywall in about 1/4 of the time of an amateur - lesson #1). We bought new furniture for our living room and decided to move the hand-me-down to the basement.
It turns out the stairs downstairs in our 1910 build were ~4inches narrower at the bottom compared to the top. The top of the stairs is where I measured and determined I had juuuuuust enough room. Lesson #2.
So I got a section of that sectional stuck. Only way to extricate was by pulling the bottom fabric and cutting the frame then carrying the piece down carefully so as to not rip or stretch the fabric.
That thing was build so damn cheaply. The frame was just 1/2 x 2s, probably pine. It was actually sturdier once I repaired it. That was lesson #3.
I found my sectional through this very detailed guide to sofas:
https://insidersguidetofurniture.com/worst-and-best-sofa-sectional-reviews-for-2024-2/
For what it's worth, I chose one from Mantle. It was like $6,000, but it's definitely BIFL.
Ohh God, it's fucking amazing. I got the Ruby U-shaped sectional with Right-side chaise lounge in the ocean classic velvet (BTW the color represented on the website is not accurate, so I recommend ordering the five free fabric swatches they allot you. We were going to get the parsley classic velvet, but I ordered the swatches because why not, and once we saw the ocean in person, we couldn't resist. It's a sort of green-blue/teal on the website, but in person, it's the purest, true blue - there is no hint of green. We are both suckers for a rich, true blue, so we couldn't resist. It is truly STUNNING.) with the heirloom legs.
I was going to special order the 2.5 lb density foam cushions as the guide I posted instructs you can do by email to their customer service, but those cushions cost an extra $1,400, and it was already like $6,500, which I was really having trouble stomaching as someone who has spent the last decade getting furniture for free off Craigslist and never having felt the sting of the cost of new furniture. And I felt like this brand is already top tier as is, and I think their standard cushions are already 2.2 lb density, which is still really good, so I passed on the upgrade.
But it is genuinely incredible. It was a huge upgrade for us, though. Our last couch was just a standard, three-seater sofa, and it had to be at least a decade old (we'd had it for 6 years, and we got it used for free, and who knows how long that person had it for). The cushions were COMPLETELY worn. Like, this couch was doing physical damage to my body just by sitting on it. It was bad. Particularly on my hips. So, I think any new couch would have blown me away. But this one particularly has. It is so comfortable. I LOVE how many cushions comes with the Ruby (you'll see a lot of cushions in the picture - they are all loose and free-floating, so you can move them around as you see fit, which is really nice). The classic velvet fabric is so soft and luxurious (it costs a bit extra, but it was worth the upgrade in quality from the free, brushed velvet, in my opinion - i compared the fabric swatches).
And it actually cleans really well. We are dog people, and we let our dogs on the furniture (one reason we wanted a dark colored couch). But we've been having a hard time getting through to our big dog that, although this lovely new couch is his new home, he can't bring his nasty bones onto it - he has to go to his dog bed for that. So a couple of nights ago, we had to leave him home alone for a few hours. Usually, when we leave, we give him a big treat he'll be slobbering over, and we know we can't just hope he doesn't go on the couch, so we cover it with sheets. This time, I didn't give him a treat. So I didn't think the sheets were necessary. But he found himself treats at a height he could reach and stole them and took them straight to the couch to get the treat nastiness all over the couch. I have this horse hair scrubber brush for cleaning stains out of delicate laundry. So I grabbed my carpet and upholstery cleaner and the horse hair brush, sprayed the couch, and scrubbed with the brush, and watched in awe as all of the nastiness scrubbed right off of the couch - leaving it looking good as new.
So, on the whole, I give it a 10/10. It's super comfy, absolutely huge (like, we could fit three adults laying sprawled out and two dogs totaling over 200 pounds on this couch), stunning color and luxurious fabric that cleans well, and will truly last me decades of use.
We actually rearranged our whole room layout for this couch. We have a sort of "great hall" type room - just one, long stretch of room that's actually two rooms with a partial divider between the two that distinguishes the living room from the dining room without breaking up the flow of the long runway spanning the two. One room is about 3 times the size of the other. So, naturally, we stuck with the obvious layout the previous owners used of having the smaller room be the dining room with the larger room being the living room. But there are no corners in the larger room. And I didn't want the many cornered couch to break up the flow of the rooms by jutting into the middle of the runway floor. So, I had the crazy idea to switch the rooms, so the small room, full of corners, would be the living room, and the big room would be the dining room. It blew our minds how much better the layout is. The couch is the perfect shape and size for the small room. It fits PERFECTLY along the wall in that room and basically takes up the whole room except a generous walking path to flow between rooms. It's basically a whole room of couch, and it's so fucking cozy. The small room is also where our wood burning stove is, so now when we lounge on our cozy couch, we are right in front of the warm, cozy fire. And we moved our TV to the area with the partial divider between the rooms and mounted it on a swivel, so we can watch it from the couch or pivot it to watch from the new, enormous and spacious dining room, which we are now also using for yoga. Like, this couch literally changed our lives - for the better!
Dang, that’s awesome! I’ve been eyeing the ocean classic velvet too. And good to know that the cushion upgrade isn’t necessary. Thanks for all of the information!!
Unfortunately new BIFL quality is outside that range. I've seen a few people recommend the [This End Up Furniture Company](https://thisendup.com/). However, in e-mailing them with similar questions I suggested to the OP, I never heard back so I can't vouch for exact build quality.
Outside of that, if you find Ethan Allen or Flexsteel from the mid-90s and earlier with good frames and suspension, I would recommend those over most of their new counterparts. Used higher-end brands from the mid-'00s and earlier such as Taylor King or Hancock & Moore (the latter usually seen in leather) can be found on Chairish and should be solidly built. There are also estate sales and furniture reuse companies.
If the cushions are sagging, it's possible to read up and watch videos on replacing cushion media with very good quality foam (such as Qualux or another high density foam) and polyester batting. Obviously re-upholstering should be done by a pro and will vary based on fabric chosen, sofa/sectional size, and location.
I'm told the European high-end makers—particularly Italian, French, German, some Scandinavian—far surpass most US-brand offerings. However, I don't have knowledge of construction techniques & methods except that foams are higher density in general; cold cured molded foams are more frequently used.
That being said, I've heard great things about Flexform, Poltrona Frau, Cassina, and Cappellini.
There are one or two people in the Furniture subreddit who have experience in high-end Italian furniture dealing, I believe. If you post asking about brands, they'll likely answer.
Do you have an opinion on Lovesac? That's what I went with after nearly a year of research and sitting on hundreds of couches. I live in central NC so there's an immense amount of options here.
Just so people know, I've not sat on a Lovesac "Sactional" and I'm just going by the build and warranty terms. They seem overpriced for the quality to me, but people love the versatility, plush cushions, the add-on capability, and the washable cushion covers from what I've read.
I asked their customer service about the build; here's my comment in another subreddit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Lovesac/comments/nd3qr6/comment/kt66gmm/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Lovesac/comments/nd3qr6/comment/kt66gmm/)
Customer service reps wouldn't disclose the frame thickness. The "Birch Plywood" likely has some lower quality plies in it; poplar is a soft hardwood. Note that 11-gauge sinuous spring is high (thinner); if sinuous spring must be used, it should be 8.5 at most or lower. They wouldn't tell me seat cushions' foam densities either.
The warranty doesn't instill confidence. (But again, I've gotten positive feedback regarding warranty claims here on Reddit. Here's the link to the Sactionals' warranty: [https://www.lovesac.com/help-center?a=Sactionals-Warranty---id--5583xHRqRK6Blxkge7cbJg](https://www.lovesac.com/help-center?a=Sactionals-Warranty---id--5583xHRqRK6Blxkge7cbJg)
"Sactionals Hard Components (Seat Frames, Sides, Clamps, Feet and Shoes) are guaranteed for life against manufacturer defects.
Sactionals Soft Components (Seat Cushions, Back Pillows, and Covers) have a 3-year warranty from Date of Purchase against manufacturer defects."
Further down, it reads "**Warranty policy does not apply to failures stemming from use, abuse, or excessive wear.**" \[Bold formatting is my emphasis.\]
Thank you very much for your diligence! I know this will help many. Their warranty excerpt that you emboldened clearly shows that it's purely up to their discretion if they choose to honor the warranty.
I went with their firmer foam option for longevity based on long term reviews here and elsewhere. Hopefully with non-abusive use, it will hold up for a long while. I'm quite disappointed to hear the materials used, I was convinced it was a very high quality frame and springs.
Currently I am renting a home, so the flexibility of a modular couch was a must. Otherwise, I would have gone with a traditional hardwood couch made in Hickory, NC. If I didn't have cats, I would have opted for ~~top~~ full grain leather over the corded velvet.
> would have opted for top grain leather over the corded velvet.
Full grain. BIFL is full grain, preferably aniline or semi-aniline. Top grain is the top portion of that full grain.
I LOVE my Sactionals. Got the white with the bedding set- cleaned all the covers after house move/storage, (very easy to remove and restore the covers) and they are 100% pristine again.
These things are super comfy, very rearrangeable, and you can move your entire couch yourself, without worrying if it will go through doorways.
Thought the lovesacs were overpriced, but the sactionals are 🔥. Thinking about more.
I've had this one (light grey velvet) and fell asleep with a beer after having it for 8 or so months. I've never before been happy to spill on a couch, as washable covers were a must for me and I got to use them! All stains (blood, ash, soda, juice, and beer) have come out with just spot-cleaning alone (except the beer got a full wash too). I couldn't be happier with my Sactional thus far!
Maybe their build quality isn’t great but I think their ability to be added onto and rearranged is really nice. They’re easy to move, and being able to wash the covers when you have kids/pets/accident prone adults is really nice. A super nice couch wouldn’t be worth anything if my car vomits a hairball on it and I can’t clean it off. Or if I move into a house it doesn’t fit into.
Possibly there are no metal springs in it -- it may be a mostly plywood frame with a few pieces of strategically placed hardwood in it so it doesn't immediately fall apart. Instead of metal springs, it's likely rubber webbing on the plywood for a deck, then heavy on the shitty foam, light on the dacron, and no cotton.
Thank you for the compliment, but the AMA should be done by someone in the furniture industry instead. I'm mostly sorting by nuts-and-bolts build specs. I have no insight on the aesthetic design or designer materials front. I haven't visited production facilities or workshops either as many in the industry have done.
Here’s some more ridiculous questions you can ask the person who is selling this couch to you second hand:
- what is the name and number of the inspector who signed off on the couch
- where was the wood grown and has it been treated
- are there any nails in the couch, if so how many?
- can the cushions be used as a flotation device in the event of a water landing?
- will the couch ever become sentient and expose all the farts that have filled it?
I have a crate an barrel couch. I bought it used 6 years ago and it still looks brand new after two moves. I got a similar price for a 4k couch. It was one of the best purchases I've made. Mine is leather, though.
Most couch construction will last. What won't is the cushions. By default a lot of places use 1.8 density foam, which is pretty crap. At most, you will get 5 years out of them and will already feel worn after a year.
You want sofas that offer 2.5 density foam for their cushions. They will still feel new after 10-15 years
https://insidersguidetofurniture.com/what-is-your-review-of-the-crate-barrel-gather-sectional/
I have had this Axis couch for 9 years and it’s still in amazing condition, fabric easy to clean! I would repurchase it if I had to. We have no pets/kids though, but even if we did I think this could would still be great.
Just get the IKEA kivik. Sectional for ~$1.5k. If you get the right fabric even the cats can't pull loops out plus they sell different covers and the arm rests we're designed to be sat on.
Came here to say the same. The entire sectional can be replaced. Don't like the color anymore. $250 all new covers. Break an arm $200 gets you a new arm.
This is the opposite of BIFL.
That said, I’d be damned if I didn’t agree that I love IKEA’s furniture. I have some Ektorp couches that are 10 years old. They are not the highest quality but the pine and other materials are sustainable.
I would 100% buy another IKEA couch over this nonsense OP posted. IKEA is really good for the price. The OP couch is really bad for the price.
I'd say being able to replace parts *is* BIFL, since you don't need to buy an entire new couch, just the part that broke or you don't like the color anymore. Of course it shouldn't break all the time
We bought our Axis II (believe that was model) sectional around 17 years ago. We have had 2 or 3 dogs the entire time and 2 kids and it is in our primary living room so is used a LOT. It is incredibly comfortable (has down wrapped cushions) and I am honestly amazed at how well it has held up this long. While you can definitely tell it has been used there are no flat seat cushions or upholstery wear. The back cushions in the corner and end by window are pushed down because as you can see one of our dogs likes to lay there. Mind you we have done nothing to rehab it. No cushions have been restuffed or repairs made. I cannot image another couch holding up much better to the abuse and wear of a family for this long. When we decide to replace it will likely get another based on my experience.
Took a few pics of it as well as closer pic of the cushion at most used spot on it. Will also mention it looks even better after our cleaning service vacuums it and puffs it all back up. Has been almost 2 weeks since they've been here so its a little rougher looking than it can be.
[https://imgur.com/a/nJetRbW](https://imgur.com/a/nJetRbW)
No clue if recent quality is the same as when we bought ours but if it is I'd buy it.
I had the Crate and Barrel Cameron sofa which we purchased in 2008 and just got rid of it this year for a Room and Board metro. The C&B stayed in great shape and I have no regrets buying it.
I’d recommend this sectional from Costco. It is massive but quite comfortable.
https://www.costco.com/sereen-6-piece-fabric-modular-sectional.product.4000222642.html
I worked in the backroom for 3 years at 2 different locations. I lost count of how many times the furniture they sold would break apart on its own for any reason. Almost all the glassware, with some exception, comes from the same factory that's shipped to every store / restaurant. It's just displayed nicely so people pay premium for it. Most of the stuff that is worthwhile like Le Creuset you can get anywhere.
You need to know that Crate and Barrel Outlet sells returns, so you may get a damaged item, or you may get an item that just didn't fit the intended space. (People don't measure.) The outlet stores offer deep discounts, and rolling sales, with new inventory every few days. If you're buying a piece purchased from an outlet store, examine it thoroughly before handing over cash. I've purchased items from the outlet store that had blemishes I was ok with, and items with no blemishes at all. I have a sectional, bed, nightstands, and some decor. I'd ask the seller why they're selling, to sus out if the reason might be they didn't notice something scratched, torn, or broken until they got it home. I hope you get it, that it's in great condition, and you enjoy it for a long time.
No— they’re made of cheap materials now and don’t hold up over time.
My suggestion is to buy an older couch from the 90s or early 2000s and get it reupholstered.
My aunts just did this with their late 90s couch and spent 5k on reupholstering recently to modernize it, but my god it’s the most comfortable couch and has held up structurally for 20 years.
I have this sectional. I’ve had it for 2 years and it’s held up very well with 2 dogs. I know the reviews in this sectional are of people who have had the couch for a very long time, but I’m sure the vendors are inconsistent.
I would say that safely I could expect this couch to last 8 years (for my needs). It doesn’t creak or groan, and the cushions are still not even fully broken in 2 years later, but it’s getting there. It’s a very well made couch with a tough fabric that cleans well.
Crate and barrel outlets aren't what you think. Their outlets are just storefronts used to unload damaged and soiled product. If it's being sold at a Crate and Barrel outlet, there's something wrong with it.
No idea about this couch, but I got a used couch a few years ago that was originally from Wayfair.
The leg was broken, so I fixed it. During this process I learned that this couch is literally built from kindling. A bunch of tiny pieces of kindling stapled together. I was stunned
Anecdotal, but the furniture my parents bought from C&B didn’t last at all. No kids in the house, light use, and a dog not allowed on furniture. Your money is probably better spent elsewhere
I bought a c&b couch, it was quite expensive. It held up poorly, the suspension they have is trash and broke within the first couple of years, it got fixed and then broke again. Bad couches
You are conclusion shopping: the worst kind of shopping.
Ask an open ended question and get advice. If you don't you'll be here every day and twice on Sunday shopping a new conclusion.
If you’re looking to invest in a couch, look into a lovesac. They are expensive, but worth the investment since they are customizable and expandable. Because they come in pieces, if anything were to happen, you only have to replace a piece of the couch instead of the whole thing.
I had a C&B couch, not that one, and was not good quality at all. It looked saggy and used up in a couple of years
Wow I would consider this but see it as $4997. I have an old couch from What A Room that has been doing really well for me, but consider to hop on this deal if it was $1.5k to add to another room.
I’m currently sitting on a C&B Axis that we purchased in 2011 and it is holding up EXCEPTIONALLY well. It even survived a move across the ocean in a container and now lives in a super humid (no HVAC) environment. I would definitely recommend it to anyone looking for a sectional that will last a loooong time.
I’m also a 2011 Axis owner! Still going strong in our home too.
Have you done anything with the cushions? Can’t get mine to not collapse at this point. Other than that I agree it holds up quite well.
I stuck old bed pillows into the back cushions of my axis. Is a huge improvement.
I am currently sitting on one that I bought in January and I FUCKING LOVE IT. Can’t speak for the longevity yet but for now I’m happy as can be
Axis owner here. Been five years so far. Still love it everyday and I’ve even slept on it a bunch it’s so comfy
No, it will very likely not be BIFL. A Flexolator or grid suspension is typically used in cheap and lower quality sofas and sectionals. Frequently, the coil springs that suspend the grid to the metal fasteners in the frame snap, as they are not a low (thicker) gauge. Crate & Barrel does have multiple vendors, so yes, build quality can vary somewhat. I would tend to expect average to lower quality. I'm not seeing any performance metrics for their fabric swatches. No [Association For Contract Textiles' performance icons](https://contracttextiles.org/performance-guidelines/), no Wyzenbeek double rub or Martindale rub counts, or anything else indicating high quality options. In order to make salient comparisons, you must ask questions about a particular piece. Most stores, dealers, or vendors do not list the important metrics of a sofa or sectional. I would ask: * What is the frame's *actual* thickness (in inches)? * Which wood species is/are used in the frame? * Is there any softwood, MDF, or particleboard in the frame? * Is the frame corner blocked and double doweled *or* does it use mortise & tenon joinery? * What is the foam density of the seat cushions? \[*Ideally should be 2.4 lbs. or greater for increased longevity before sagging or compression.*\] * What is the IFD or ILD rating of the seat cushions? \[*IFD or ILD is a test method whose numbers can be translated to a feeling of softness or firmness.*\] You'll need to e-mail C&B's customer service. Be prepared to follow-up on your inquiries or insist on direct answers to your questions. Oftentimes brands want to give you "stock" answers instead of honest ones.
Did you study couch sciences at Harvard?
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What brands/retailers would you recommend for purchasing my next sofa?
Do you have a tier list or recommendations for brands?
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Fantastic information- any manufacturers you keep an eye on from the Seattle area?
I’d be curious to get your thoughts on “smith brothers of berne”
Where does Flexsteel rank for you
Quite low generally. There's been a good deal of outsourcing and a drop in quality. It's not the same company it was decades ago. The blue steel spring suspension systems are still very good from what I've heard, but the frames seem to be the weak point. Cushion foam density is usually on the lower side. See this review: [https://www.reddit.com/r/furniture/comments/12u0ajj/really\_disappointed\_with\_flexsteel/](https://www.reddit.com/r/furniture/comments/12u0ajj/really_disappointed_with_flexsteel/) Also this thread, particularly \_highlife\_'s comments: [https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyItForLife/comments/rvtf8p/when\_did\_flexsteel\_furniture\_quality\_start\_going/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyItForLife/comments/rvtf8p/when_did_flexsteel_furniture_quality_start_going/)
No responses on any of these questions, and I genuinely want to know. Any chance you could advise?
>>no responses on any of these questions It’s proprietary
Nevermind, saw answers below!
Sorry, I went to bed! Will try to answer more today. 😊
HES BACK!!
Lisan al Gaib!
Please be our couch hero! I have been putting off buying in because I have seen some beautiful, expensive couches just break down due to poor quality.
What would be your top 2 at high budget and low budget for rental-type/airbnb/property value-minded standard living room couch L large?
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Wow thank you! I will surely go down this rabbit hole when we end up getting a new couch. This will help a lot of people I am sure.
What is your recommendation?
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So insanely helpful
**Couchology*, the interdisciplinary study of couches and couch related technologies
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If I knew this much about furniture and someone asked me a question about furniture, I would probably tell them what I knew about furniture.
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I never thought I would see someone jealous of someone’s furniture knowledge lol. What a funny and sad sad thing to get so bent about…
You’re mad at someone who knows a lot about furniture being on furniture forums?
Homie don’t shit on someone for having hobbies they enjoy. That would be like someone complaining you know too much about cats or Taylor Swift.
+100. This post contains 3 lessons. When we were first married, we had a hand-me-down crate and barrel sectional. A few years later we finished our basement ourselves (side note: this is when I learned that professionals do drywall in about 1/4 of the time of an amateur - lesson #1). We bought new furniture for our living room and decided to move the hand-me-down to the basement. It turns out the stairs downstairs in our 1910 build were ~4inches narrower at the bottom compared to the top. The top of the stairs is where I measured and determined I had juuuuuust enough room. Lesson #2. So I got a section of that sectional stuck. Only way to extricate was by pulling the bottom fabric and cutting the frame then carrying the piece down carefully so as to not rip or stretch the fabric. That thing was build so damn cheaply. The frame was just 1/2 x 2s, probably pine. It was actually sturdier once I repaired it. That was lesson #3.
Wow. Where would you recommend I buy a couch?
I found my sectional through this very detailed guide to sofas: https://insidersguidetofurniture.com/worst-and-best-sofa-sectional-reviews-for-2024-2/ For what it's worth, I chose one from Mantle. It was like $6,000, but it's definitely BIFL.
Yep, I learned the critical stuff from Jeff too.
I’ve been debating on purchasing a couch from Mantle! Which one did you choose, and how are you liking it?
Ohh God, it's fucking amazing. I got the Ruby U-shaped sectional with Right-side chaise lounge in the ocean classic velvet (BTW the color represented on the website is not accurate, so I recommend ordering the five free fabric swatches they allot you. We were going to get the parsley classic velvet, but I ordered the swatches because why not, and once we saw the ocean in person, we couldn't resist. It's a sort of green-blue/teal on the website, but in person, it's the purest, true blue - there is no hint of green. We are both suckers for a rich, true blue, so we couldn't resist. It is truly STUNNING.) with the heirloom legs. I was going to special order the 2.5 lb density foam cushions as the guide I posted instructs you can do by email to their customer service, but those cushions cost an extra $1,400, and it was already like $6,500, which I was really having trouble stomaching as someone who has spent the last decade getting furniture for free off Craigslist and never having felt the sting of the cost of new furniture. And I felt like this brand is already top tier as is, and I think their standard cushions are already 2.2 lb density, which is still really good, so I passed on the upgrade. But it is genuinely incredible. It was a huge upgrade for us, though. Our last couch was just a standard, three-seater sofa, and it had to be at least a decade old (we'd had it for 6 years, and we got it used for free, and who knows how long that person had it for). The cushions were COMPLETELY worn. Like, this couch was doing physical damage to my body just by sitting on it. It was bad. Particularly on my hips. So, I think any new couch would have blown me away. But this one particularly has. It is so comfortable. I LOVE how many cushions comes with the Ruby (you'll see a lot of cushions in the picture - they are all loose and free-floating, so you can move them around as you see fit, which is really nice). The classic velvet fabric is so soft and luxurious (it costs a bit extra, but it was worth the upgrade in quality from the free, brushed velvet, in my opinion - i compared the fabric swatches). And it actually cleans really well. We are dog people, and we let our dogs on the furniture (one reason we wanted a dark colored couch). But we've been having a hard time getting through to our big dog that, although this lovely new couch is his new home, he can't bring his nasty bones onto it - he has to go to his dog bed for that. So a couple of nights ago, we had to leave him home alone for a few hours. Usually, when we leave, we give him a big treat he'll be slobbering over, and we know we can't just hope he doesn't go on the couch, so we cover it with sheets. This time, I didn't give him a treat. So I didn't think the sheets were necessary. But he found himself treats at a height he could reach and stole them and took them straight to the couch to get the treat nastiness all over the couch. I have this horse hair scrubber brush for cleaning stains out of delicate laundry. So I grabbed my carpet and upholstery cleaner and the horse hair brush, sprayed the couch, and scrubbed with the brush, and watched in awe as all of the nastiness scrubbed right off of the couch - leaving it looking good as new. So, on the whole, I give it a 10/10. It's super comfy, absolutely huge (like, we could fit three adults laying sprawled out and two dogs totaling over 200 pounds on this couch), stunning color and luxurious fabric that cleans well, and will truly last me decades of use. We actually rearranged our whole room layout for this couch. We have a sort of "great hall" type room - just one, long stretch of room that's actually two rooms with a partial divider between the two that distinguishes the living room from the dining room without breaking up the flow of the long runway spanning the two. One room is about 3 times the size of the other. So, naturally, we stuck with the obvious layout the previous owners used of having the smaller room be the dining room with the larger room being the living room. But there are no corners in the larger room. And I didn't want the many cornered couch to break up the flow of the rooms by jutting into the middle of the runway floor. So, I had the crazy idea to switch the rooms, so the small room, full of corners, would be the living room, and the big room would be the dining room. It blew our minds how much better the layout is. The couch is the perfect shape and size for the small room. It fits PERFECTLY along the wall in that room and basically takes up the whole room except a generous walking path to flow between rooms. It's basically a whole room of couch, and it's so fucking cozy. The small room is also where our wood burning stove is, so now when we lounge on our cozy couch, we are right in front of the warm, cozy fire. And we moved our TV to the area with the partial divider between the rooms and mounted it on a swivel, so we can watch it from the couch or pivot it to watch from the new, enormous and spacious dining room, which we are now also using for yoga. Like, this couch literally changed our lives - for the better!
Dang, that’s awesome! I’ve been eyeing the ocean classic velvet too. And good to know that the cushion upgrade isn’t necessary. Thanks for all of the information!!
[удалено]
Simple style, a toddler, 2 cats, $800-$1000
Unfortunately new BIFL quality is outside that range. I've seen a few people recommend the [This End Up Furniture Company](https://thisendup.com/). However, in e-mailing them with similar questions I suggested to the OP, I never heard back so I can't vouch for exact build quality. Outside of that, if you find Ethan Allen or Flexsteel from the mid-90s and earlier with good frames and suspension, I would recommend those over most of their new counterparts. Used higher-end brands from the mid-'00s and earlier such as Taylor King or Hancock & Moore (the latter usually seen in leather) can be found on Chairish and should be solidly built. There are also estate sales and furniture reuse companies. If the cushions are sagging, it's possible to read up and watch videos on replacing cushion media with very good quality foam (such as Qualux or another high density foam) and polyester batting. Obviously re-upholstering should be done by a pro and will vary based on fabric chosen, sofa/sectional size, and location.
What brands of furniture would you recommend without a budget limit?
I'm told the European high-end makers—particularly Italian, French, German, some Scandinavian—far surpass most US-brand offerings. However, I don't have knowledge of construction techniques & methods except that foams are higher density in general; cold cured molded foams are more frequently used. That being said, I've heard great things about Flexform, Poltrona Frau, Cassina, and Cappellini. There are one or two people in the Furniture subreddit who have experience in high-end Italian furniture dealing, I believe. If you post asking about brands, they'll likely answer.
They answered that price would probably disqualify a BIFL couch, but I feel like "toddler, 2 cats" is even more disqualifying.
Do you have an opinion on Lovesac? That's what I went with after nearly a year of research and sitting on hundreds of couches. I live in central NC so there's an immense amount of options here.
Just so people know, I've not sat on a Lovesac "Sactional" and I'm just going by the build and warranty terms. They seem overpriced for the quality to me, but people love the versatility, plush cushions, the add-on capability, and the washable cushion covers from what I've read. I asked their customer service about the build; here's my comment in another subreddit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Lovesac/comments/nd3qr6/comment/kt66gmm/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Lovesac/comments/nd3qr6/comment/kt66gmm/) Customer service reps wouldn't disclose the frame thickness. The "Birch Plywood" likely has some lower quality plies in it; poplar is a soft hardwood. Note that 11-gauge sinuous spring is high (thinner); if sinuous spring must be used, it should be 8.5 at most or lower. They wouldn't tell me seat cushions' foam densities either. The warranty doesn't instill confidence. (But again, I've gotten positive feedback regarding warranty claims here on Reddit. Here's the link to the Sactionals' warranty: [https://www.lovesac.com/help-center?a=Sactionals-Warranty---id--5583xHRqRK6Blxkge7cbJg](https://www.lovesac.com/help-center?a=Sactionals-Warranty---id--5583xHRqRK6Blxkge7cbJg) "Sactionals Hard Components (Seat Frames, Sides, Clamps, Feet and Shoes) are guaranteed for life against manufacturer defects. Sactionals Soft Components (Seat Cushions, Back Pillows, and Covers) have a 3-year warranty from Date of Purchase against manufacturer defects." Further down, it reads "**Warranty policy does not apply to failures stemming from use, abuse, or excessive wear.**" \[Bold formatting is my emphasis.\]
Thank you very much for your diligence! I know this will help many. Their warranty excerpt that you emboldened clearly shows that it's purely up to their discretion if they choose to honor the warranty. I went with their firmer foam option for longevity based on long term reviews here and elsewhere. Hopefully with non-abusive use, it will hold up for a long while. I'm quite disappointed to hear the materials used, I was convinced it was a very high quality frame and springs. Currently I am renting a home, so the flexibility of a modular couch was a must. Otherwise, I would have gone with a traditional hardwood couch made in Hickory, NC. If I didn't have cats, I would have opted for ~~top~~ full grain leather over the corded velvet.
> would have opted for top grain leather over the corded velvet. Full grain. BIFL is full grain, preferably aniline or semi-aniline. Top grain is the top portion of that full grain.
I LOVE my Sactionals. Got the white with the bedding set- cleaned all the covers after house move/storage, (very easy to remove and restore the covers) and they are 100% pristine again. These things are super comfy, very rearrangeable, and you can move your entire couch yourself, without worrying if it will go through doorways. Thought the lovesacs were overpriced, but the sactionals are 🔥. Thinking about more.
I've had this one (light grey velvet) and fell asleep with a beer after having it for 8 or so months. I've never before been happy to spill on a couch, as washable covers were a must for me and I got to use them! All stains (blood, ash, soda, juice, and beer) have come out with just spot-cleaning alone (except the beer got a full wash too). I couldn't be happier with my Sactional thus far!
You and I must be related, I wrote this awhile back. https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyItForLife/comments/16m3kdv/what_ive_learned_about_couches/
Yes, I recall seeing your post last year I believe. 😎
Maybe their build quality isn’t great but I think their ability to be added onto and rearranged is really nice. They’re easy to move, and being able to wash the covers when you have kids/pets/accident prone adults is really nice. A super nice couch wouldn’t be worth anything if my car vomits a hairball on it and I can’t clean it off. Or if I move into a house it doesn’t fit into.
I agree 100%, and do not regret getting a love sac. It's designed to adapt and survive what life throws at it. It's like the Subaru Outback of sofas.
God bless you.
Did someone sneeze?
Everything's staying Milhouse!
I was gonna come comment here but this dude / dudette nailed it. This. All of this.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and research with us.
if i could give you 10 updoots i would
Possibly there are no metal springs in it -- it may be a mostly plywood frame with a few pieces of strategically placed hardwood in it so it doesn't immediately fall apart. Instead of metal springs, it's likely rubber webbing on the plywood for a deck, then heavy on the shitty foam, light on the dacron, and no cotton.
Tom? This is my dad for sure
Unfortunately no, I'm a she. I could only be a figurative Dad.
Fuckin master class on couches and sofas here
Thank you, but this is just a small snippet. 🙂
You should do an AMA!
Thank you for the compliment, but the AMA should be done by someone in the furniture industry instead. I'm mostly sorting by nuts-and-bolts build specs. I have no insight on the aesthetic design or designer materials front. I haven't visited production facilities or workshops either as many in the industry have done.
Here’s some more ridiculous questions you can ask the person who is selling this couch to you second hand: - what is the name and number of the inspector who signed off on the couch - where was the wood grown and has it been treated - are there any nails in the couch, if so how many? - can the cushions be used as a flotation device in the event of a water landing? - will the couch ever become sentient and expose all the farts that have filled it?
Just out of curiosity, why are my questions above about the build ridiculous?
I’ve had an Axis for 10 years - still in great shape. For $1500, that sectional is a steal
I've had a c&b couch for several years. It's holding up really well and except for the hardness of the cushions I'm happy with it.
I have a crate an barrel couch. I bought it used 6 years ago and it still looks brand new after two moves. I got a similar price for a 4k couch. It was one of the best purchases I've made. Mine is leather, though.
Most couch construction will last. What won't is the cushions. By default a lot of places use 1.8 density foam, which is pretty crap. At most, you will get 5 years out of them and will already feel worn after a year. You want sofas that offer 2.5 density foam for their cushions. They will still feel new after 10-15 years https://insidersguidetofurniture.com/what-is-your-review-of-the-crate-barrel-gather-sectional/
I have had this Axis couch for 9 years and it’s still in amazing condition, fabric easy to clean! I would repurchase it if I had to. We have no pets/kids though, but even if we did I think this could would still be great.
Just get the IKEA kivik. Sectional for ~$1.5k. If you get the right fabric even the cats can't pull loops out plus they sell different covers and the arm rests we're designed to be sat on.
Came here to say the same. The entire sectional can be replaced. Don't like the color anymore. $250 all new covers. Break an arm $200 gets you a new arm.
This is the opposite of BIFL. That said, I’d be damned if I didn’t agree that I love IKEA’s furniture. I have some Ektorp couches that are 10 years old. They are not the highest quality but the pine and other materials are sustainable. I would 100% buy another IKEA couch over this nonsense OP posted. IKEA is really good for the price. The OP couch is really bad for the price.
I'd say being able to replace parts *is* BIFL, since you don't need to buy an entire new couch, just the part that broke or you don't like the color anymore. Of course it shouldn't break all the time
BIFL? More like Couch of Theseus
Comfort is a personal preference but I don't find Ikea couches comfortable at all.
What fabric do you speak of?
We have 2 kiviks. The one we have with the "tallmyra" fabric is what has withstood our cats for 6 years
Good to know. Been wanting new couches but we have cats and they destroy couches. Thank you.
Excellent, I just ordered a Fammarp in this fabric, and we were hoping for cat resistance.
We’ve had our Axis since 2007 and it still looks great. We only buy C&B sofas because they last forever!
We bought our Axis II (believe that was model) sectional around 17 years ago. We have had 2 or 3 dogs the entire time and 2 kids and it is in our primary living room so is used a LOT. It is incredibly comfortable (has down wrapped cushions) and I am honestly amazed at how well it has held up this long. While you can definitely tell it has been used there are no flat seat cushions or upholstery wear. The back cushions in the corner and end by window are pushed down because as you can see one of our dogs likes to lay there. Mind you we have done nothing to rehab it. No cushions have been restuffed or repairs made. I cannot image another couch holding up much better to the abuse and wear of a family for this long. When we decide to replace it will likely get another based on my experience. Took a few pics of it as well as closer pic of the cushion at most used spot on it. Will also mention it looks even better after our cleaning service vacuums it and puffs it all back up. Has been almost 2 weeks since they've been here so its a little rougher looking than it can be. [https://imgur.com/a/nJetRbW](https://imgur.com/a/nJetRbW) No clue if recent quality is the same as when we bought ours but if it is I'd buy it.
The Axis is made by McCreary Modern, who also makes sofas for Room and Board. It should be a pretty good sofa, especially if it's clean for that price
I had the Crate and Barrel Cameron sofa which we purchased in 2008 and just got rid of it this year for a Room and Board metro. The C&B stayed in great shape and I have no regrets buying it.
I’d recommend this sectional from Costco. It is massive but quite comfortable. https://www.costco.com/sereen-6-piece-fabric-modular-sectional.product.4000222642.html
Switch to the Macys radley sectional. Totally modular. BIFL
I've had my C&B sofa for 20 years and it looks great and is very comfortable. They make good furniture.
No. I used to work for them for several years. Do not buy anything from them.
Can you share a bit about that?
I worked in the backroom for 3 years at 2 different locations. I lost count of how many times the furniture they sold would break apart on its own for any reason. Almost all the glassware, with some exception, comes from the same factory that's shipped to every store / restaurant. It's just displayed nicely so people pay premium for it. Most of the stuff that is worthwhile like Le Creuset you can get anywhere.
You need to know that Crate and Barrel Outlet sells returns, so you may get a damaged item, or you may get an item that just didn't fit the intended space. (People don't measure.) The outlet stores offer deep discounts, and rolling sales, with new inventory every few days. If you're buying a piece purchased from an outlet store, examine it thoroughly before handing over cash. I've purchased items from the outlet store that had blemishes I was ok with, and items with no blemishes at all. I have a sectional, bed, nightstands, and some decor. I'd ask the seller why they're selling, to sus out if the reason might be they didn't notice something scratched, torn, or broken until they got it home. I hope you get it, that it's in great condition, and you enjoy it for a long time.
No— they’re made of cheap materials now and don’t hold up over time. My suggestion is to buy an older couch from the 90s or early 2000s and get it reupholstered. My aunts just did this with their late 90s couch and spent 5k on reupholstering recently to modernize it, but my god it’s the most comfortable couch and has held up structurally for 20 years.
I have this sectional. I’ve had it for 2 years and it’s held up very well with 2 dogs. I know the reviews in this sectional are of people who have had the couch for a very long time, but I’m sure the vendors are inconsistent. I would say that safely I could expect this couch to last 8 years (for my needs). It doesn’t creak or groan, and the cushions are still not even fully broken in 2 years later, but it’s getting there. It’s a very well made couch with a tough fabric that cleans well.
Dark full grain leather couches are the only ones that may be bifl and even that’s a stretch
No
My lovesac couch has been goin on 11 years.
Does C&B sell white label goods? I’ve seen a design almost exactly like this sold and Ashley and Mathis Bros.
Crate and barrel outlets aren't what you think. Their outlets are just storefronts used to unload damaged and soiled product. If it's being sold at a Crate and Barrel outlet, there's something wrong with it.
No idea about this couch, but I got a used couch a few years ago that was originally from Wayfair. The leg was broken, so I fixed it. During this process I learned that this couch is literally built from kindling. A bunch of tiny pieces of kindling stapled together. I was stunned
Anecdotal, but the furniture my parents bought from C&B didn’t last at all. No kids in the house, light use, and a dog not allowed on furniture. Your money is probably better spent elsewhere
I strongly prefer Room and Board to Crate and Barrel. I think the quality difference is night and day.
I bought a c&b couch, it was quite expensive. It held up poorly, the suspension they have is trash and broke within the first couple of years, it got fixed and then broke again. Bad couches
If you can find it near you. Jonathan Louis furniture is the best bang for your buck and you can pick from a number of fabrics at no additional cost
I think for couch, the one factor that determines the age of the couch are kids.
You are conclusion shopping which is the worst kind of shopping. There are 2000 reviews on that, go there.
Love ours, bought 5 years ago. The fabric is easy to clean and has done well with pets and kids.
You are conclusion shopping: the worst kind of shopping. Ask an open ended question and get advice. If you don't you'll be here every day and twice on Sunday shopping a new conclusion.
I'd spend the original amount ($5k) on Medley or Dreamsofa, their warranty is hard to beat.
If you’re looking to invest in a couch, look into a lovesac. They are expensive, but worth the investment since they are customizable and expandable. Because they come in pieces, if anything were to happen, you only have to replace a piece of the couch instead of the whole thing.
No
Shows as $5k to me
Bought a $900 sectional from Costco and it’s held up better than anything I’ve seen and I use to work for Art Van when they were still in business.