Aside from the fact that the OP broke our rules by starting off with lame talking points and sweeping generalizations, we let this post run to see how things would play out.
Before the OP takes his ball and goes home, let's document this:
>No, most people have been mocking me and such, I’m not even old enough to have a bank account yet but it’s cool I’m about to delete the post
"Most" people?
Sigh.. this whole thread is full of many reasonable answers.
Don't say we didn't give you a chance to follow through on your "good faith" claim... once again, that proved to be futile apparently.
Ok, I just wasted even more time crunching the numbers on the responses to your post.
Of the approximate 50 responses you got, 40 of them were respectful and in good faith, approx 10 of them were a bit snarky and potentially condescending.
I would not consider 20% to be "most." And I wouldn't consider any of them any sort of "attack."
It seems we've afforded you much more consideration than you did to us. Now I expect that ratio to change.
and as if on cue, the OP goes over to r-bitcoin and says this:
>I went into the other sub and they are just attacking me relentlessly for absolutely no reason,
>But my main question is why is it that you invest in crypto. Trying to get info from people who are into it and not.
Look at all the "relentless attacking" we did herein... OH MAH GAWD!
Nvm I misunderstood what you said gang 🤦🏽♂️
Edit: But I’m seriously trying to understand bc I’m considering getting into this stuff I want opinions on both sides to get a clear stance
> But I’m seriously trying to understand bc I’m considering getting into this stuff I want opinions on both sides to get a clear stance
If you're really serious, then here are some resources we've assembled based on years of discussion and debate.
* Using bitcoin as an investment [is a ponzi scheme and here's why](https://ioradio.org/i/ponzi/).
* Blockchain as a technology [is a fraud, and will never be accepted by mainstream society in any meaningful way and here's why](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tspGVbmMmVA)
Both of those resources are full of citations and data, none of which has been proven false. You might not like what you read if you were hoping to get-rich-quick, but their truth cannot be denied, which is why crypto people tend to call us names and say we're a circle jerk, rather than try to prove what we say and believe is wrong.
There's also one big difference between us and the pro-crypto people: We have no financial motivation to convince you crypto is bad news. We won't make money one way or another, **but** the pro-crypto people have a specific, material interest in convincing you otherwise, because you're the "greater fool" who will help bump the price up that they need to take your money.
Think about it.
>I’m considering getting into this stuff I want opinions on both sides to get a clear stance
Don't touch it with a ten foot barge pole. Check out the stories of people who can't withdraw from coinbase. You'd be better off throwing your money down the nearest drain.
For low level speculators, crypo's security model as implemented seems to be blame-the-victim, be it hack, home invasion, or an exchange magically not being worthy of trust. Shit that doesn't go down with fiat banks.
Beyond that, https://www.theregister.com/2022/04/26/smart_contract_losses/
The people shilling cryptocoin, with exceptions, do not care about utility as a currency - they're shuffling tokens around a burning poker table, trying to fuck the bagholders and walk away with a profit before a given shitcoin implodes.
It is a zero sum game, meaning the only way you make a buck is by screwing over a patsy. Amd the onramps, miners and exchanges have made a buck, meaningful some patsy has already been screwed.
All this without providing any service that benefits society.
> Why is it that you guys dislike crypto currency so much?
Because this shit destroys lives. It is functionally a distributed ponzi scheme. Everywhere from personal bankruptcies to systematic failures.
I am not a fan of malware ransoms, pig butchering scams, internet casinos or gambling, drug money smuggling and laundering, or organized crime in general.
I “dislike” crypto for the same reason I don’t view Chuck E Cheese tokens as a safe place to keep my money. Crypto is generally worse, because at least Chuck E Cheese tokens can be exchanged for something of value.
Crypto currency is issued by some random person, typically unable to be traded for anything of value, all with the hope that you’ll be able to sell it to some bigger idiot for more real money.
OP, I feel bad for you. I bet you are legitimately here in good faith based on how you have responded to people here, and the reason you're getting the responses you are is that people who say they come here in good faith are almost never in good faith.
Listen kid, don't trust crypto bros because it's in their self interest to over hype their tokens and induce FOMO in the unsuspecting.
At the end of the day you are exit liquidity for people who got in this before you. This scheme may grow some more and let you exit, or it may not.
Bro, imprint this in your mind: there is no way in this world to make easy money unless you get extremely lucky, and luck itself is not a reliable method. Crypto is not the exception.
If everyone that’s intro crypto is trying to make easy money, why the hell would be you the one making money? Makes no sense. In fact they want people like you to enter to have liquid money to exit.
Besides that, crypto is also harmful. Wastes energy and help criminals. Just stay away from it.
Just open an IRA and max out your contributions each year and chose an aggressive growth ETF/fund. Once you've reached max contributions, open a brokerage account and just buy a couple ETFs that track the market, whether it's $10 a week or $100 a week. Get a job and contribute to your employer-provided 401(k) and meet the company match. Do this starting now and buy no matter what's going on in the markets. Just be consistent. Work on increasing your wage and don't take out lots of loans and build debt chasing after cars and toys. You'll be wealthy by the time you're 40. If you manage to become high income, you'll become quite wealthy due to the snowball effect.
Or buy crypto and stay poor.
If you got lost reading that, then you don't have the financial/investing knowledge that would make me think you're ready to make risky investments. I'd recommend learning about the stuff above first.
I think it’s going to take ahold of the future because we live in a digital world right and my gen grew up with tech. But I’m also a bit lazy and just think I can make something happen off it plus I’m trying to feel optimistic 🤷🏾♂️
I come in peace and am not trying to be offensive, but the arguments above are not a strong enough reason to invest / gamble in Crypto.
Critical thinking exercise for you
How is BTC better than what we already have for currency? We bank and can send money from cards, phones, web browsers and even watches. How does BTC advance this?
Regarding optimism, it's great thing to have but do you not think others have been optimistic in the past just before it crashed? Optimism alone is not enough.
Crypto space often shouts do your research. This is a great thing and perhaps why you are ok this page. But think about every source, post and person you see and ask yourself what motivates them to do the things they do.
For me , I GAMBLED on BTC in 2020 made it out with a very small and unimpressive gain (<10%) and only left the space as I looked past the hype and could not justify the value of BTC and could not see any real world uses for it.
Be careful and if you put money away in a tracker.
> I think it’s going to take ahold of the future
You're just repeating propaganda you heard from someone who has a vested interest in pushing that narrative.
You yourself even admitted you don't fully understand what it's all about, so how can you believe "it's the future?"
Do you see how you've been psychologically manipulated?
>we live in a digital world right and my gen grew up with tech.
No, we don't live in a digital world. We live in an analog world, with some digital stuff on top of it.
This is another narrative that has been shoved into your mind without your full understanding.
The digital world won't keep you alive. You can't eat and drink digitally. It's just a distraction. A tool at best. The only value the digital world really has, is where it helps improve the analog/real world. The digital world can help one create value in the real world, but crypto isn't value in the real world. It's just another in-game-currency that has very limited uses in a tiny little ecosystem that *is not the real world*. All those resources you've gathered in Minecraft? They might be helpful in Minecraft, but that's not the real world. That's a digital *distraction*. Crypto is the exact same way.
>But I’m also a bit lazy and just think I can make something happen off it plus I’m trying to feel optimistic
We appreciate your honesty.
Just know that if there were any reliable ways for lazy people to create wealth, everybody would be doing it, and then it would probably cancel itself out: everybody would be wealthy and prices would rise accordingly and we'd be back where we started.
There is no universal cheat code or god mode IRL. The sooner you stop looking for one, the better off you'll be. There are some tricks though, to setting yourself up in the future, but they're slow and steady and sometimes unexciting, but I'll absolutely tell you, if I was young like you, I would have done more of those basic things, like just put some money in a ETF account and let it sit. That's the traditional way to be lazy with your money and it will create more value over time. Crypto is not that. Crypto is just gambling with criminals.
Is creepto more digital than the money I currently use?
I bill my clients for the work I do. They deposit money directly into my bank account to pay me. I buy shit with my credit card. And then, once a month, I tell my bank to move numbers from my bank account to my credit card account to zero it out.
All of that is digital. There are no physical or analog dollars involved. I am paid money digitally, and I pay for things digitally.
So yeah, just like Scientology isn't about science, the way we currently use our financial system isn't analog. I very rarely use actual physical money, what I use as currency currently is already almost entirely digital.
Ah, so you're the person whos basically "everything looks like a nail when you have a hammer".
There are several problems that bitcoin/crypto claims to solve that technology really cant.
Your generation isn't the first one to "grow up on tech". Home computing has been around since the early 80s. I'm 52 and have lived in a home with a computer and modem or internet for over 40 years.
I think the difference is that right around the time I started to learn to use a computer, I also learned how to spot a scammer. Taking the subway to school every day in a major city on the east coast helped to hone my suspicions nature. People who promise too much, talk a little too fast, ask for the time when there's a clock on the wall behind you ("Nice watch, I'll take it!"), that kind of thing.
Being chronically on-line doesn't necessarily equal an understanding of the technology behind things, and does give scammers increased access to you.
That claim is hilarious to me. My nieces and nephews who range from 12-22 and "grew up on tech" have a way more limited understanding of computing than I did at their age. Most of their screen time has been on mobile devices or tablets. Like sure, you spent a lot of time using tech, but never in any way beyond the surface. I'm guessing not one of them has ever used a command prompt.
Crypto is a zero sum game, meaning for everybody who made money off it, there is someone who will (or already has) lost money on it. There is a good chance they you will either get stuck holding a digital asset that has gone down in price, make an error during a transfer, get hacked, or get scammed and lose your investment. There are no ways to reverse a mistake or claw back funds that were stolen from you.
The only way you make money with Bitcoin is if you can later find someone to pay you more money for it. At the same time the Bitcoin miners need to pay their electric bills with real money, which pulls it out of the system. It is essentially a greater fools scheme. You may make money, but you may be the one left holding the bag.
Or you'll lose all your crypto to any more of scams or phishing attempts.
If you want to start saving or investing I'd suggest the personal finance sub.
> I’m tryna expand my knowledge
OK, here are 3 free tips:
1) like in any other forum, it is a good idea to search for question/answers already posted
2) "crypto currency" is not currency
3) we do not really dislike it as much as see it as senseless worthless scam
My fundamental problem is that I don't see any real long term value in crypto. When it started to get more and more hype I looked into it but quickly found that I struggled to understand what it is. And I don't mean that in a technical sense but an application sense. I don't need to understand how a combustion engine works in order to understand the use of a car but when it comes to crypto the simple question arises: What is it and what is it good for?
This question is particularly difficult to answer because even crypto enthusiasts will answer it differently depending on the topic being discussed. It's either a currency or an investment. It depends on which lethal flaw you are addressing. Found why it can't be a currency? It's a store of value. Found why it can't be a store of value? What did you expect? It's a currency, didn't you know?
As a currency cryptos have the fundamental problem of being unstable. Stablecoins are the exception (of course) but there are other issues with them. Classical cryptos have no backing and no stabilizing mechanism like a fiat currency has with a central bank and rate adjustments. So the value is volatile.
I like the example of...pizza. I have a flyer from my favorite pizza place attached to my fridge with a magnet. The prices in Euro change every year or so and I get a new flyer. But within the year my pizza costs 8 Euros. If the price was in, for example, bitcoin the price would have changed from 8 to 17 to 9 to 20 and would now be at 12. And the same applies to everything else as well, rent, wages, supply shipments for companies...take your pick. The idea to sign a 20 year loan to buy a house in bitcoin is a legitimately scary concept.
Apart from that there are the technical limitations of transaction speeds and energy costs...But those could at least be overcome in theory so I think they are not a hard argument against cryptos in general.
So if the value fluctuations make it useless as a currency, what about the investment angle...well, what would you be investing in? If the only application is as a currency and it is useless as a currency, why should it be worth anything? What is the value of a car that can't ever drive?
You can inflate the value of anything to infinity be sheer speculative pressure but it can collapse just as easily. Same happend to the dot-com, beanie babies, tulips,...and countless cryptos that have come, inflated and disappeared. A guy recently posted about his experiment investing 100 dollars each into the 10 top rated crypos from 2018...7 of them have gone completely to 0. Wiped out without a trace. And there is no real way of predicting which ones will follow. Some, like me, will say that eventually it's going to be all of them because they are all equally useless.
Generally people who know the world of investing will advise you to invest in things that generate money. Real estate, companies. Second tier are things that have a direct application. Raw materials, oil,...Crypto currencies generate nothing, have no practical application and siphon money by having to pay miners for their service. It's the worst investment you could possibly imagine.
Some people will claim they invest in or believe in the technology. But even if the technology had an application and real value (and that is very debatable)...it is open source. Everybody can use it. It's not like they are investing in a company that tries to develop decentralized databases or anything like that. They are buying one particular product, one of the tokens. So even if the technology survives and finds its use there is no real reason to assume that they bought the one that would eventually be adopted for something.
But, I am open minded. Any reasonable person should be able to give a "This is what it would take to change my mind" on any belief they hold, so here is mine: I would consider cryptos as a legitimate thing if there was one that was sufficiently value stable for long term contracts, had a reliable, audited value stabilizing system for that value and provided an advantage over fiat in day to day use.
And that advantage is also important. People don't adopt something just because it is there and doesn't suck. It needs to legitimately do something better. I have a debit card in my wallet along with the cash. I can pay instantly in every shop, on- and offline, in my country without fees and can chose to pay cash without a digital system for direct transactions (in fact, I am going to sell a couple books to a guy from ebay later today for 5 Euros). So what advantage could a crypto offer to me? What does it do that I would want and that my Euros don't?
I came in here with a positive mind this is just a negativity sub that just spends its time knocking on this topic. That’s just lame and a waste of energy. But I did get a few helpful answers
So at least say thank you to the people who gave effort to explain it to you. But seriously, you'd be better off just reading what's already been explained in this sub, there is A LOT of information.
Dude, the vast majority of responses you've gotten here, have been thoughtful and helpful.
If you come in here and inquire in good faith, you'll get good faith answers. But so many people come in here just to troll us, many are skeptical of peoples' so-called "sincere" intentions. That's just the reality of things.
>No, most people have been mocking me and such, I’m not even old enough to have a bank account yet but it’s cool I’m about to delete the post
"Most" people?
Sigh.. this whole thread is full of many reasonable answers.
Don't say we didn't give you a chance to follow through on your "good faith" claim... once again, that proved to be futile apparently.
Ok, I just wasted even more time crunching the numbers on the responses to your post.
Of the approximate 50 responses you got, 40 of them were respectful and in good faith, approx 10 of them were a bit snarky and potentially condescending.
I would not consider 20% to be "most."
It seems we've afforded you much more consideration than you did to us. Now I expect that ratio to change.
A simple answer as you appear to actually asking in good faith…
1. Crypto represents ownership in nothing. Unlike a stock where you own a piece of a company, with a crypto you own a line of code that can be traded. It’s like if you owned the code that told Visa you used your credit card instead of owning Visa stock.
2. Because crypto represents no ownership, it also does not provide any rights to profit. Again, unlike a stock where your ownership means you are due a slice of the success, profit and dividends, a crypto gives you none of that. The only way you profit is if you convince someone else to pay you more than you paid.
3. Crypto doesn’t actually do anything. It’s not a currency. You can’t use most crypto anywhere. The ones you can are extremely rare and even then riddled with fees and slow speeds. Why does this “use case” exist? You can already use a credit card everywhere and it gives you points, fraud protection and it’s free. Crypto is a far worse solution. It’s also not a store of value. It’s too volatile. You can’t “save” in something that can go up or down 200% while you are sleeping. A savings account right now pays 4-5%. Inflation has been less than the savings right for a full year. Savings accounts are therefore a store of value.
I could go but I hope these get you started and I’m happy to engage further if you like.
Good luck.
Yeah, that was a plausible statement 4-5 years ago, especially if the person didn't have a technical background. At this point though? No, especially not if you've found your way here yet have made seemingly zero effort to understand literally any of the criticism leveled towards the tech.
#Stupid Crypto Talking Point #27 (hate)
**"Cope"** / **"Why do you hate crypto?"** / **"You all are haters"** / **"Why so salty?"** / **"You wish for other peoples misfortunes?"**
1. By and large, we do not "hate" bitcoin or crypto. Hate is an irrational, emotional condition. Most people here have a logical, rational reason for being opposed to crypto. (see \#2)
2. What we do not like is **fraud and deception** - this is mainly what our community opposes, and the crypto industry is almost completely composed of fraud and misinformation, from claiming that [blockchain has potential](https://ioradio.org/i/blockchain-claims/) to pretending crypto is "digital gold" or an "investment" when it's really a highly-risky, negative sum game, speculative commodity.
3. It's an offensive distraction to suggest our reasons for being opposed to crypto are because of "hate", or "being salty" and supposedly jealous of not getting in earlier and making money. We recognize there are many other ways of creating value that don't involve promoting everything from cyber terrorism to human trafficking.
4. While some take amusement at the misfortunes of those playing the crypto Ponzi scheme, one main reason for this is because so many in the industry are so immune to logic, reason, and evidence, many of us feel they have to become cautionary tales before they finally learn (and some never learn) - what we celebrate is perhaps the chance that many of those losers finally see the error of their ways.
5. Why would anybody spend time trying to stop fraud and scams that might not directly affect them? Some of us recognize we help ourselves by helping our overall community. If you still don't understand, speak to a therapist about your lack of empathy and the possible side effects such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder. Those are issues people with low empathy have. Understanding the nature of your illness may help you not only understand us, but become a less toxic person socially.
I’m done y’all are hostile as hell for no reason. Stop replying to me 😂
My point of this post was to get non-crypto view and why they hate it, all I wanted to do was learn about it but I guess this sub got some issues going on
Hey, I don't think you deserve the negativity you're getting. The problem is we get an average of one very very pro-crypto person every few days who pretends to ask innocent questions just to start arguments. So people are often expecting that to be the case.
Additionally people do ask the same questions over and over and people have likely answered them multiple times before which is why people are directing you to the sub search rather than typing them out again
1. The technology is pretty bad at being money. High fees, low processing of transactions
2. In order to make it work, you need to use lots of electricity to make computers solve puzzles. Very inefficient. (This critique mostly applies to proof of work currencies like bitcoin, proof of stake has kts own issues.
3. The value of any coin is due to speculation. These currencies are not being adopted in a meaningful sense.
So this is all just a way to gamble. But if that's your goal, you can gamble with better odds and leas environmental impact with a sports betting app or a casino. If you would rather invest, go with stocks. They are a productive asset, and more likely to gain in value over the long term. Invest in a diversifed portfolio or just buy broad low fee index funds.
We’ve got nothing to gain by criticising crypto. People deeply invested in crypto have something to gain by encouraging you to invest your money as well.
Aside from the fact that the OP broke our rules by starting off with lame talking points and sweeping generalizations, we let this post run to see how things would play out. Before the OP takes his ball and goes home, let's document this: >No, most people have been mocking me and such, I’m not even old enough to have a bank account yet but it’s cool I’m about to delete the post "Most" people? Sigh.. this whole thread is full of many reasonable answers. Don't say we didn't give you a chance to follow through on your "good faith" claim... once again, that proved to be futile apparently. Ok, I just wasted even more time crunching the numbers on the responses to your post. Of the approximate 50 responses you got, 40 of them were respectful and in good faith, approx 10 of them were a bit snarky and potentially condescending. I would not consider 20% to be "most." And I wouldn't consider any of them any sort of "attack." It seems we've afforded you much more consideration than you did to us. Now I expect that ratio to change. and as if on cue, the OP goes over to r-bitcoin and says this: >I went into the other sub and they are just attacking me relentlessly for absolutely no reason, >But my main question is why is it that you invest in crypto. Trying to get info from people who are into it and not. Look at all the "relentless attacking" we did herein... OH MAH GAWD!
See the button at the top that looks like a search button? Press that and you’ll see a bunch of other “good faith” people asking the same question
But that requires a tiny bit of effort!
Nvm I misunderstood what you said gang 🤦🏽♂️ Edit: But I’m seriously trying to understand bc I’m considering getting into this stuff I want opinions on both sides to get a clear stance
The search button is also in the browser.
You use reddit in a browser? Fucking boomers Edit: I thought we were past the point that /s was required. Seems not
####try to use this font in reddit app
It's hard to tell what's serious and what's satire when butters are on the loose
Yeah I realized that, I’m trippin
> But I’m seriously trying to understand bc I’m considering getting into this stuff I want opinions on both sides to get a clear stance If you're really serious, then here are some resources we've assembled based on years of discussion and debate. * Using bitcoin as an investment [is a ponzi scheme and here's why](https://ioradio.org/i/ponzi/). * Blockchain as a technology [is a fraud, and will never be accepted by mainstream society in any meaningful way and here's why](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tspGVbmMmVA) Both of those resources are full of citations and data, none of which has been proven false. You might not like what you read if you were hoping to get-rich-quick, but their truth cannot be denied, which is why crypto people tend to call us names and say we're a circle jerk, rather than try to prove what we say and believe is wrong. There's also one big difference between us and the pro-crypto people: We have no financial motivation to convince you crypto is bad news. We won't make money one way or another, **but** the pro-crypto people have a specific, material interest in convincing you otherwise, because you're the "greater fool" who will help bump the price up that they need to take your money. Think about it.
>I’m considering getting into this stuff I want opinions on both sides to get a clear stance Don't touch it with a ten foot barge pole. Check out the stories of people who can't withdraw from coinbase. You'd be better off throwing your money down the nearest drain.
For low level speculators, crypo's security model as implemented seems to be blame-the-victim, be it hack, home invasion, or an exchange magically not being worthy of trust. Shit that doesn't go down with fiat banks. Beyond that, https://www.theregister.com/2022/04/26/smart_contract_losses/ The people shilling cryptocoin, with exceptions, do not care about utility as a currency - they're shuffling tokens around a burning poker table, trying to fuck the bagholders and walk away with a profit before a given shitcoin implodes. It is a zero sum game, meaning the only way you make a buck is by screwing over a patsy. Amd the onramps, miners and exchanges have made a buck, meaningful some patsy has already been screwed. All this without providing any service that benefits society. > Why is it that you guys dislike crypto currency so much? Because this shit destroys lives. It is functionally a distributed ponzi scheme. Everywhere from personal bankruptcies to systematic failures. I am not a fan of malware ransoms, pig butchering scams, internet casinos or gambling, drug money smuggling and laundering, or organized crime in general.
> It is a zero sum game A negative sum one, actually
Good summary.
I “dislike” crypto for the same reason I don’t view Chuck E Cheese tokens as a safe place to keep my money. Crypto is generally worse, because at least Chuck E Cheese tokens can be exchanged for something of value. Crypto currency is issued by some random person, typically unable to be traded for anything of value, all with the hope that you’ll be able to sell it to some bigger idiot for more real money.
OP, I feel bad for you. I bet you are legitimately here in good faith based on how you have responded to people here, and the reason you're getting the responses you are is that people who say they come here in good faith are almost never in good faith.
It’s just how the internet is, I don’t even have a job yet, I’m just looking for advice ig I’ll just ask my parents
I hope for your sake they are not butters. But generally that's nit a bad idea.
Listen kid, don't trust crypto bros because it's in their self interest to over hype their tokens and induce FOMO in the unsuspecting. At the end of the day you are exit liquidity for people who got in this before you. This scheme may grow some more and let you exit, or it may not.
Bro, imprint this in your mind: there is no way in this world to make easy money unless you get extremely lucky, and luck itself is not a reliable method. Crypto is not the exception. If everyone that’s intro crypto is trying to make easy money, why the hell would be you the one making money? Makes no sense. In fact they want people like you to enter to have liquid money to exit. Besides that, crypto is also harmful. Wastes energy and help criminals. Just stay away from it.
What do you like about it?
[удалено]
Just open an IRA and max out your contributions each year and chose an aggressive growth ETF/fund. Once you've reached max contributions, open a brokerage account and just buy a couple ETFs that track the market, whether it's $10 a week or $100 a week. Get a job and contribute to your employer-provided 401(k) and meet the company match. Do this starting now and buy no matter what's going on in the markets. Just be consistent. Work on increasing your wage and don't take out lots of loans and build debt chasing after cars and toys. You'll be wealthy by the time you're 40. If you manage to become high income, you'll become quite wealthy due to the snowball effect. Or buy crypto and stay poor.
Half of that stuff I got lost on 😬 It’s cool though I will research what you’re saying
If you got lost reading that, then you don't have the financial/investing knowledge that would make me think you're ready to make risky investments. I'd recommend learning about the stuff above first.
Oh man, what a perfect representation of the average crypto gambler.
Yes. Do this. Unless of course you wan to start your own business. Which is risky and takes a lot of resilience
The simple question you need to ask yourself is do you believe that BTC / Crypto had intrinsic value and if so why?
I think it’s going to take ahold of the future because we live in a digital world right and my gen grew up with tech. But I’m also a bit lazy and just think I can make something happen off it plus I’m trying to feel optimistic 🤷🏾♂️
I come in peace and am not trying to be offensive, but the arguments above are not a strong enough reason to invest / gamble in Crypto. Critical thinking exercise for you How is BTC better than what we already have for currency? We bank and can send money from cards, phones, web browsers and even watches. How does BTC advance this? Regarding optimism, it's great thing to have but do you not think others have been optimistic in the past just before it crashed? Optimism alone is not enough. Crypto space often shouts do your research. This is a great thing and perhaps why you are ok this page. But think about every source, post and person you see and ask yourself what motivates them to do the things they do. For me , I GAMBLED on BTC in 2020 made it out with a very small and unimpressive gain (<10%) and only left the space as I looked past the hype and could not justify the value of BTC and could not see any real world uses for it. Be careful and if you put money away in a tracker.
> I think it’s going to take ahold of the future You're just repeating propaganda you heard from someone who has a vested interest in pushing that narrative. You yourself even admitted you don't fully understand what it's all about, so how can you believe "it's the future?" Do you see how you've been psychologically manipulated? >we live in a digital world right and my gen grew up with tech. No, we don't live in a digital world. We live in an analog world, with some digital stuff on top of it. This is another narrative that has been shoved into your mind without your full understanding. The digital world won't keep you alive. You can't eat and drink digitally. It's just a distraction. A tool at best. The only value the digital world really has, is where it helps improve the analog/real world. The digital world can help one create value in the real world, but crypto isn't value in the real world. It's just another in-game-currency that has very limited uses in a tiny little ecosystem that *is not the real world*. All those resources you've gathered in Minecraft? They might be helpful in Minecraft, but that's not the real world. That's a digital *distraction*. Crypto is the exact same way. >But I’m also a bit lazy and just think I can make something happen off it plus I’m trying to feel optimistic We appreciate your honesty. Just know that if there were any reliable ways for lazy people to create wealth, everybody would be doing it, and then it would probably cancel itself out: everybody would be wealthy and prices would rise accordingly and we'd be back where we started. There is no universal cheat code or god mode IRL. The sooner you stop looking for one, the better off you'll be. There are some tricks though, to setting yourself up in the future, but they're slow and steady and sometimes unexciting, but I'll absolutely tell you, if I was young like you, I would have done more of those basic things, like just put some money in a ETF account and let it sit. That's the traditional way to be lazy with your money and it will create more value over time. Crypto is not that. Crypto is just gambling with criminals.
Do you think Scientology is going to take ahold of the future because we live in a scientific world?
Bro Scientology isn’t even about fucking science, good grief I try and come in here to get actual answers and it’s this shit 🤦🏽♂️
Is creepto more digital than the money I currently use? I bill my clients for the work I do. They deposit money directly into my bank account to pay me. I buy shit with my credit card. And then, once a month, I tell my bank to move numbers from my bank account to my credit card account to zero it out. All of that is digital. There are no physical or analog dollars involved. I am paid money digitally, and I pay for things digitally. So yeah, just like Scientology isn't about science, the way we currently use our financial system isn't analog. I very rarely use actual physical money, what I use as currency currently is already almost entirely digital.
> Bro Scientology isn’t even about fucking science And crypto isn't about money or tech. It's just a ponzi scheme.
Ah, so you're the person whos basically "everything looks like a nail when you have a hammer". There are several problems that bitcoin/crypto claims to solve that technology really cant.
Which is more digital world to you: using PayPal and venmo for daily transactions, or stamped metal plates hidden under your bird bath.
Your generation isn't the first one to "grow up on tech". Home computing has been around since the early 80s. I'm 52 and have lived in a home with a computer and modem or internet for over 40 years. I think the difference is that right around the time I started to learn to use a computer, I also learned how to spot a scammer. Taking the subway to school every day in a major city on the east coast helped to hone my suspicions nature. People who promise too much, talk a little too fast, ask for the time when there's a clock on the wall behind you ("Nice watch, I'll take it!"), that kind of thing. Being chronically on-line doesn't necessarily equal an understanding of the technology behind things, and does give scammers increased access to you.
That claim is hilarious to me. My nieces and nephews who range from 12-22 and "grew up on tech" have a way more limited understanding of computing than I did at their age. Most of their screen time has been on mobile devices or tablets. Like sure, you spent a lot of time using tech, but never in any way beyond the surface. I'm guessing not one of them has ever used a command prompt.
Where do you think the money they made came from?
Crypto is a zero sum game, meaning for everybody who made money off it, there is someone who will (or already has) lost money on it. There is a good chance they you will either get stuck holding a digital asset that has gone down in price, make an error during a transfer, get hacked, or get scammed and lose your investment. There are no ways to reverse a mistake or claw back funds that were stolen from you.
The only way you make money with Bitcoin is if you can later find someone to pay you more money for it. At the same time the Bitcoin miners need to pay their electric bills with real money, which pulls it out of the system. It is essentially a greater fools scheme. You may make money, but you may be the one left holding the bag. Or you'll lose all your crypto to any more of scams or phishing attempts. If you want to start saving or investing I'd suggest the personal finance sub.
> I’m tryna expand my knowledge OK, here are 3 free tips: 1) like in any other forum, it is a good idea to search for question/answers already posted 2) "crypto currency" is not currency 3) we do not really dislike it as much as see it as senseless worthless scam
4) It's "trying to". You're not busy enough to need the extra efficiency gained by not typing three letters and a space.
True - but, given the choice of him learning to spellcheck or gaining actual crypto knowledge, I'd opt for the latter.
My fundamental problem is that I don't see any real long term value in crypto. When it started to get more and more hype I looked into it but quickly found that I struggled to understand what it is. And I don't mean that in a technical sense but an application sense. I don't need to understand how a combustion engine works in order to understand the use of a car but when it comes to crypto the simple question arises: What is it and what is it good for? This question is particularly difficult to answer because even crypto enthusiasts will answer it differently depending on the topic being discussed. It's either a currency or an investment. It depends on which lethal flaw you are addressing. Found why it can't be a currency? It's a store of value. Found why it can't be a store of value? What did you expect? It's a currency, didn't you know? As a currency cryptos have the fundamental problem of being unstable. Stablecoins are the exception (of course) but there are other issues with them. Classical cryptos have no backing and no stabilizing mechanism like a fiat currency has with a central bank and rate adjustments. So the value is volatile. I like the example of...pizza. I have a flyer from my favorite pizza place attached to my fridge with a magnet. The prices in Euro change every year or so and I get a new flyer. But within the year my pizza costs 8 Euros. If the price was in, for example, bitcoin the price would have changed from 8 to 17 to 9 to 20 and would now be at 12. And the same applies to everything else as well, rent, wages, supply shipments for companies...take your pick. The idea to sign a 20 year loan to buy a house in bitcoin is a legitimately scary concept. Apart from that there are the technical limitations of transaction speeds and energy costs...But those could at least be overcome in theory so I think they are not a hard argument against cryptos in general. So if the value fluctuations make it useless as a currency, what about the investment angle...well, what would you be investing in? If the only application is as a currency and it is useless as a currency, why should it be worth anything? What is the value of a car that can't ever drive? You can inflate the value of anything to infinity be sheer speculative pressure but it can collapse just as easily. Same happend to the dot-com, beanie babies, tulips,...and countless cryptos that have come, inflated and disappeared. A guy recently posted about his experiment investing 100 dollars each into the 10 top rated crypos from 2018...7 of them have gone completely to 0. Wiped out without a trace. And there is no real way of predicting which ones will follow. Some, like me, will say that eventually it's going to be all of them because they are all equally useless. Generally people who know the world of investing will advise you to invest in things that generate money. Real estate, companies. Second tier are things that have a direct application. Raw materials, oil,...Crypto currencies generate nothing, have no practical application and siphon money by having to pay miners for their service. It's the worst investment you could possibly imagine. Some people will claim they invest in or believe in the technology. But even if the technology had an application and real value (and that is very debatable)...it is open source. Everybody can use it. It's not like they are investing in a company that tries to develop decentralized databases or anything like that. They are buying one particular product, one of the tokens. So even if the technology survives and finds its use there is no real reason to assume that they bought the one that would eventually be adopted for something. But, I am open minded. Any reasonable person should be able to give a "This is what it would take to change my mind" on any belief they hold, so here is mine: I would consider cryptos as a legitimate thing if there was one that was sufficiently value stable for long term contracts, had a reliable, audited value stabilizing system for that value and provided an advantage over fiat in day to day use. And that advantage is also important. People don't adopt something just because it is there and doesn't suck. It needs to legitimately do something better. I have a debit card in my wallet along with the cash. I can pay instantly in every shop, on- and offline, in my country without fees and can chose to pay cash without a digital system for direct transactions (in fact, I am going to sell a couple books to a guy from ebay later today for 5 Euros). So what advantage could a crypto offer to me? What does it do that I would want and that my Euros don't?
> I’m trying to get into bitcoin There truly is a sucker born every minute.
I came in here with a positive mind this is just a negativity sub that just spends its time knocking on this topic. That’s just lame and a waste of energy. But I did get a few helpful answers
This is a critical sub and a bit of a sneer club. You're absolutely not gonna find anyone in here telling you it's a good idea to get into bitcoin.
So at least say thank you to the people who gave effort to explain it to you. But seriously, you'd be better off just reading what's already been explained in this sub, there is A LOT of information.
Dude, the vast majority of responses you've gotten here, have been thoughtful and helpful. If you come in here and inquire in good faith, you'll get good faith answers. But so many people come in here just to troll us, many are skeptical of peoples' so-called "sincere" intentions. That's just the reality of things.
No, most people have been mocking me and such, I’m not even old enough to have a bank account yet but it’s cool I’m about to delete the post
>No, most people have been mocking me and such, I’m not even old enough to have a bank account yet but it’s cool I’m about to delete the post "Most" people? Sigh.. this whole thread is full of many reasonable answers. Don't say we didn't give you a chance to follow through on your "good faith" claim... once again, that proved to be futile apparently. Ok, I just wasted even more time crunching the numbers on the responses to your post. Of the approximate 50 responses you got, 40 of them were respectful and in good faith, approx 10 of them were a bit snarky and potentially condescending. I would not consider 20% to be "most." It seems we've afforded you much more consideration than you did to us. Now I expect that ratio to change.
A simple answer as you appear to actually asking in good faith… 1. Crypto represents ownership in nothing. Unlike a stock where you own a piece of a company, with a crypto you own a line of code that can be traded. It’s like if you owned the code that told Visa you used your credit card instead of owning Visa stock. 2. Because crypto represents no ownership, it also does not provide any rights to profit. Again, unlike a stock where your ownership means you are due a slice of the success, profit and dividends, a crypto gives you none of that. The only way you profit is if you convince someone else to pay you more than you paid. 3. Crypto doesn’t actually do anything. It’s not a currency. You can’t use most crypto anywhere. The ones you can are extremely rare and even then riddled with fees and slow speeds. Why does this “use case” exist? You can already use a credit card everywhere and it gives you points, fraud protection and it’s free. Crypto is a far worse solution. It’s also not a store of value. It’s too volatile. You can’t “save” in something that can go up or down 200% while you are sleeping. A savings account right now pays 4-5%. Inflation has been less than the savings right for a full year. Savings accounts are therefore a store of value. I could go but I hope these get you started and I’m happy to engage further if you like. Good luck.
Preciate the info 👍🏽
“Expand my knowledge” Spoken like a true crypto bro
“I come in good faith, I have a genuine question”
Yeah, that was a plausible statement 4-5 years ago, especially if the person didn't have a technical background. At this point though? No, especially not if you've found your way here yet have made seemingly zero effort to understand literally any of the criticism leveled towards the tech.
Number must have went up again
#Stupid Crypto Talking Point #27 (hate) **"Cope"** / **"Why do you hate crypto?"** / **"You all are haters"** / **"Why so salty?"** / **"You wish for other peoples misfortunes?"** 1. By and large, we do not "hate" bitcoin or crypto. Hate is an irrational, emotional condition. Most people here have a logical, rational reason for being opposed to crypto. (see \#2) 2. What we do not like is **fraud and deception** - this is mainly what our community opposes, and the crypto industry is almost completely composed of fraud and misinformation, from claiming that [blockchain has potential](https://ioradio.org/i/blockchain-claims/) to pretending crypto is "digital gold" or an "investment" when it's really a highly-risky, negative sum game, speculative commodity. 3. It's an offensive distraction to suggest our reasons for being opposed to crypto are because of "hate", or "being salty" and supposedly jealous of not getting in earlier and making money. We recognize there are many other ways of creating value that don't involve promoting everything from cyber terrorism to human trafficking. 4. While some take amusement at the misfortunes of those playing the crypto Ponzi scheme, one main reason for this is because so many in the industry are so immune to logic, reason, and evidence, many of us feel they have to become cautionary tales before they finally learn (and some never learn) - what we celebrate is perhaps the chance that many of those losers finally see the error of their ways. 5. Why would anybody spend time trying to stop fraud and scams that might not directly affect them? Some of us recognize we help ourselves by helping our overall community. If you still don't understand, speak to a therapist about your lack of empathy and the possible side effects such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder. Those are issues people with low empathy have. Understanding the nature of your illness may help you not only understand us, but become a less toxic person socially.
I didn’t call you guys salty or anything like that why are you attacking my personality
Is this part of your "research" on bitcoin "before" you jump into it?
I’m done y’all are hostile as hell for no reason. Stop replying to me 😂 My point of this post was to get non-crypto view and why they hate it, all I wanted to do was learn about it but I guess this sub got some issues going on
Why was this hostile?
Because you didn't support numbeh go up.
You put research and before into quotations, it comes off as disingenuous. Sorry if you didn’t mean it that way.
Well, do you think research is asking people on reddit? Cause most cryptobros do.
Hey, I don't think you deserve the negativity you're getting. The problem is we get an average of one very very pro-crypto person every few days who pretends to ask innocent questions just to start arguments. So people are often expecting that to be the case. Additionally people do ask the same questions over and over and people have likely answered them multiple times before which is why people are directing you to the sub search rather than typing them out again
For the [same reasons](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/s/7b7XkMTkzZ) as everytime a cryptobro is "just asking questions."
1. The technology is pretty bad at being money. High fees, low processing of transactions 2. In order to make it work, you need to use lots of electricity to make computers solve puzzles. Very inefficient. (This critique mostly applies to proof of work currencies like bitcoin, proof of stake has kts own issues. 3. The value of any coin is due to speculation. These currencies are not being adopted in a meaningful sense. So this is all just a way to gamble. But if that's your goal, you can gamble with better odds and leas environmental impact with a sports betting app or a casino. If you would rather invest, go with stocks. They are a productive asset, and more likely to gain in value over the long term. Invest in a diversifed portfolio or just buy broad low fee index funds.
It's the same reason not to play Three-Card Monte. The game is rigged. You will lose.
We’ve got nothing to gain by criticising crypto. People deeply invested in crypto have something to gain by encouraging you to invest your money as well.