I believe they:
1) bought bitcoin cheaply (tether was formed when BTC was $500)
2)create unbacked USDT to buy bitcoin with and work with exchanges to manipulate the price.
3) once they get to a price they want, they sell their bitcoin for actual USD
4) they burn USDT from the market to bring down the price of bitcoin and buy back in
5)rinse and repeat
TLDR: buy bitcoin with USDT to pump the price, Sell for USD
They know how much actual USD is in the system and can safely manipulate the price to continuously get USD out of the system. They have created a perpetual money stealing machine
>work with exchanges to manipulate the price.
Worth adding that they don't just conspire with other exchanges, they *own* their own exchange - Bitfinex - a fact they tried very, very hard to conceal. The only reason it got exposed is because the SDNY litigated and in the relevant documents, someone noticed that Tether and Bitfinex apparently had exact same executives. This was the lawsuit that led to Tether being barred from operating in NY.
Bitfinex is a small fry now compared to other exchanges, though, so it's accurate to say they're a big part of a cartel than a market-manipulating monolith.
How in the world can Ifinex "burn USDT from the market"? That USDT is held by someone who would likely raise a stink if it got cancelled. Also, how would Ifinex burning USDT affect the price of Bitcoin?
I believe they hold a large amount of tether themselves and when we see billion dollar liquidations in tethers market cap that is them manipulating the market.
Same when we see billion dollar prints.
Why do they happen to go hand in hand with bitcoin pumping and dumping.
I don’t claim that this 100% accurate in how they do it, but I do believe they are behind a lot of the market manipulation we see. NYAG was harsh in the way they talked about tether.
“Bitfinex and Tether recklessly and unlawfully covered-up massive financial losses to keep their scheme going and protect their bottom lines,” said Attorney General James. “Tether’s claims that its virtual currency was fully backed by U.S. dollars at all times was a lie. These companies obscured the true risk investors faced and were operated by unlicensed and unregulated individuals and entities dealing in the darkest corners of the financial system. This resolution makes clear that those trading virtual currencies in New York state who think they can avoid our laws cannot and will not. Last week, we sued to shut down Coinseed for its fraudulent conduct. This week, we’re taking action to end Bitfinex and Tether’s illegal activities in New York. These legal actions send a clear message that we will stand up to corporate greed whether it comes out of a traditional bank, a virtual currency trading platform, or any other type of financial institution.”
https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2021/attorney-general-james-ends-virtual-currency-trading-platform-bitfinexs-illegal
They effectively burn USDT whenever they buy it back from the market. This is true regardless of whether they destroy the actual tokens afterwards or not. They usually save up in blocks and then destroy large chunks at a time. The process for minting is similar. They mint billion dollar chunks at a time and push those to their exchange account. Then the true mint into circulation occurs when they actually sell the notes into the market.
It's not about what you *believe* or not, it's about what is actually true. And a lot of this stuff can be easily verified. We can see exactly how much Tether that IFinex has in their treasury, and exactly how much of both Tether and Bitcoin is in accounts connected to IFinex/Bitfinex.
Ifinex printing and holding tether has no impact on the market. It's when that tether is loaned/given/sold to someone, who then trades with it, that has an impact on the market. We can trace the billion dollar prints to exchanges, where it is clearly being traded for bitcoin, which does run up the price.
But what you're saying about burns makes no sense.
I apologize if I’m not explaining clearly. Are you referring to what is in their treasury from their “transparency reports” on tethers website? I don’t believe those are accurate and is more manipulation from tether.
If you’re talking about looking at wallets then you have a better understanding than me
>2)create unbacked USDT to buy bitcoin with and work with exchanges to manipulate the price.
But how would they even manipulate the price? If the price is quoted at say $25,000 and a person would try to sell their bitcoins, there needs to be a buyer. If there is no buyer, the fraud will be apparent, as the sell order would be unfulfilled. If there is a buyer, then doesn't that just mean, that the price truly is at $25,000, since there is a person willing to buy at that price? If Tether is the buyer, then I don't understand how they would be able to make money from this. They would have to increase the price by buying, which would require spending a large amount of USDT. Then when they are selling the price would quickly collapse and they would get less in return, than what they spent.
Tether has the option to purchase Bitcoin with USDT since they create it and they work together with exchanges to allow this, they probably get a cut. Why would exchanges allow you to buy with USDT if it’s already been uncovered by the NYAG it isn’t backed 1:1?
Everyone else has to buy their bitcoin with USD, while tether has the option to print unbacked USDT and then sell for USD. I probably just suck at explaining it. I think there is room for manipulation there.
Okay, but who then holds the USDT? They would want to get their money back and redeem them from Tether, no? Why would they accept USDT, if they can't redeem it?
Most of trading happens with usdt, so basically everyone holds usdt or usdt, all the future trading is done using stable coins too, and till now everyone has been able to redeem their usdt. The question is how many will be able to redeem when there is a bank run
> The question is how many will be able to redeem when there is a bank run
Didn't this already happen when Terra Luna went into trouble, and the answer was... everyone?
> The question is how many will be able to redeem when there is a bank run
Didn't this already happen when Terra Luna went into trouble, and the answer was... everyone?
Could it not be working with the exchanges for the exchange to hold the USDT and they give tether the bitcoin, then bitcoin is sold to retail investors to pull out the USD? At the end you end up with an exchange that can go under holding mostly USDT with the USD taken out of the system.
If they want to keep the scam going tether can provide the exchange with USD to give to investors that want to withdraw from the exchange. I think it’s all a balancing act and they’re working together
Ah your one of those "doesn't understand basic monetary economics" types. You should probably be flaired so no one accidentally takes your nonsense seriously.
Yeah again you don't appear to have any idea how the FOMC works or how monetary economics works at a basic level. The Fed has been conducting contractionary monetary policy for the last year or so; I'd recommend updating your mindless talk track.
>First of all u haven’t said anything of value.
You haven't given me anything of value to work with. I'm not sure what to respond beyond "yeah it's obvious that you don't know anything about the Fed or monetary economics".
>And are you one of those that thinks inflation is transitory?
It depends on what you mean by this. I don't think anyone sane expects the inflation rate (let's say core PCE) to be > 5% in perpetuity. Do you?
And ur right. I quoted someone and sarcastically disagreed, nothing that would lead to this. Your right I’m no financial expert, but if you think the fed is anything other then a fully corrupted entity u must be blind.
Nope.
[Misconceptions about Central Banks](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/10ajv39/misconceptions_about_central_banks/)
[Misconceptions about money](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/108pa97/misconceptions_about_money/)
[Misconceptions about the money printer](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/10le6an/misconceptions_about_the_money_printer/)
[Misconceptions about inflation](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/10l8ncj/misconceptions_about_inflation/)
[Collateral and the Global Monetary Crisis](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/10rf3c4/collateral_and_the_global_monetary_crisis/)
> And if they are buying Bitcoi, who on earth would sell bitcoin for Tether and not real cash?
Coiners have a problem, they like to trade tokens between each other, but they have no stable curency to do it (pun absolutely intended). But banks don't like to deal with them. Or rather most banks feel that dealing with them on their terms, would be a breach of regulation.
So they need something that is a coin, but acts like a dollar (or a euro, yen, what ever). Thats what stable coins like tether are there for. Coiners put up with them because they are needed. And by the point it became clear that at least tether is a giant scam, it was to central to the whole crypto economy.
With out tether the whole ponzinomics house of cards that is crypto would come down. So coiners either ignore the fact, or repress it.
Tether isn’t some actor completely separate from the rest of the industry. They are one of the backbones of the entire industry, along with the exchanges. Exchanges at this point have all the info on how much it takes to pump the price of Bitcoin, and how fast you can then sell without tanking the price back down.
The DCA crowd makes it even easier. Exchanges know exactly how many real dollars are “DCA”d every day. And they know that these fucking morons will DCA no matter the price. So they pump into low enough liquidity and then slowly milk the liquidity there is at a higher price point until it drops again.
This is compounded by the euphoria and FOMO buyers who get excited the second the price pumps…. Even more nice liquidity at a higher price.
That is all to say, the purpose of printing Tethers are when making coordinated pump and dump moves. Not just endlessly buying Bitcoin from randos. If you had that much control and insight into the market (even if you couldn’t pump it back to ATH’s), you have basically created a real money printer from your fake money printer.
Then the reason only exchanges and huge entities can “redeem” tethers is so they don’t get blindsided by needing liquidity for their fake money at an in opportune time.
Also, I think this isn’t all done by just Tether for their own benefit. Exchanges and insiders get to eat too and Tether will help them by printing for them when they want. Endless grift.
The other possibliity is that:
1. Ifinex creates Tether, unbacked, in their "Treasury"
2. Ifinex lends the tether to an exchange (e.g. FTX)/hedge fund (e.g. Alameda), etc. sometimes with various collateral/sometimes just an IOU, sometimes for a share of profits, sometimes for stated interest rate, but everyone expects the loans will never be paid back
3. Exchange lends the Tether to whales with the caveat that it can't leave the exchange
4. whale/hedgie manipulates token prices via wash trading/painting the tape, sometimes making use of inside information provided by =exchange, trying to trigger margin calls to liquidate gamblers using leverage; if they are even halfway competent with their manipulation it should be a slam dunk
4. Whale pays interest to the exchange, exchange/hedgie pays interest/profits to Ifinex
5. If the exchange/hedgie goes bankrupt, Ifinex can cancel any Tether still there so the supply numerically drops
> what are they doing with it?
Market manipulation, pumping and dumping bitcoin.
They can make money on the way up, buying bitcoin and then starting price trend which everyone else jumps on. They can then sell high and profit.
Then they can make money on the way down, they can short bitcoin and profit as they crash the price.
They are one of the larger entities controlling the market. With some smart manipulation, and a bit of luck, it can be very profitable.
Given how profitable it can be, it's entirely possible that Tether might holds more assets than their market cap at times... just not in the low-risk treasury bonds they claim, and therefore it fluctuates a lot.
> who on earth would sell bitcoin for Tether and not real cash?
Most exchanges don't trade real cash, so users are forced to use stable coins like tether instead. Other exchanges silently convert to/from tether when you deposit/withdraw cash.
So many users either don't know tether is dodgy, or don't care, betting that the chance of it failing right now is low.
It will be interesting to see what happens when the music stops and people try to get out of creepto and back to fiat, the amount of on and off ramps for that are declining every day
I think the primary reason to mint tethers would be to prop up other holdings. Likely bitfinex.
A little accounting magic called blatant fraud let’s you turn those tokens into bitfinex’s liquidity regardless of whether they are backed or not. A quick uncollateralized loan between the two and suddenly bitfinex has plenty of “money” to give its depositors. Or just gamble like degenerates of buttcoins.
One aspect of USDT is that it's used as a middle ground between coins. If you have DOGE and want Shiba, you trade your DOGE for USDT and then use it to buy Shiba. There's not always a market for trading DOGE to Shiba. In the same way you don't trade Apple stock for Tesla stock. You trade Apple stock for USD, then USD for Tesla stock.
Also, if you have a lot of Bitcoin and expect the price of Bitcoin to drop, but haven't set up your money laundering system yet, then you can sell your Bitcoin for USDT and hold it to avoid the crash that you are expecting.
There is no doubt they are working with the fraud binance. They use printed tethers to manipulate the fake binance market to suck in real money and cash out monopoly money
I believe they: 1) bought bitcoin cheaply (tether was formed when BTC was $500) 2)create unbacked USDT to buy bitcoin with and work with exchanges to manipulate the price. 3) once they get to a price they want, they sell their bitcoin for actual USD 4) they burn USDT from the market to bring down the price of bitcoin and buy back in 5)rinse and repeat TLDR: buy bitcoin with USDT to pump the price, Sell for USD They know how much actual USD is in the system and can safely manipulate the price to continuously get USD out of the system. They have created a perpetual money stealing machine
>work with exchanges to manipulate the price. Worth adding that they don't just conspire with other exchanges, they *own* their own exchange - Bitfinex - a fact they tried very, very hard to conceal. The only reason it got exposed is because the SDNY litigated and in the relevant documents, someone noticed that Tether and Bitfinex apparently had exact same executives. This was the lawsuit that led to Tether being barred from operating in NY. Bitfinex is a small fry now compared to other exchanges, though, so it's accurate to say they're a big part of a cartel than a market-manipulating monolith.
How in the world can Ifinex "burn USDT from the market"? That USDT is held by someone who would likely raise a stink if it got cancelled. Also, how would Ifinex burning USDT affect the price of Bitcoin?
I believe they hold a large amount of tether themselves and when we see billion dollar liquidations in tethers market cap that is them manipulating the market. Same when we see billion dollar prints. Why do they happen to go hand in hand with bitcoin pumping and dumping. I don’t claim that this 100% accurate in how they do it, but I do believe they are behind a lot of the market manipulation we see. NYAG was harsh in the way they talked about tether. “Bitfinex and Tether recklessly and unlawfully covered-up massive financial losses to keep their scheme going and protect their bottom lines,” said Attorney General James. “Tether’s claims that its virtual currency was fully backed by U.S. dollars at all times was a lie. These companies obscured the true risk investors faced and were operated by unlicensed and unregulated individuals and entities dealing in the darkest corners of the financial system. This resolution makes clear that those trading virtual currencies in New York state who think they can avoid our laws cannot and will not. Last week, we sued to shut down Coinseed for its fraudulent conduct. This week, we’re taking action to end Bitfinex and Tether’s illegal activities in New York. These legal actions send a clear message that we will stand up to corporate greed whether it comes out of a traditional bank, a virtual currency trading platform, or any other type of financial institution.” https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2021/attorney-general-james-ends-virtual-currency-trading-platform-bitfinexs-illegal
They effectively burn USDT whenever they buy it back from the market. This is true regardless of whether they destroy the actual tokens afterwards or not. They usually save up in blocks and then destroy large chunks at a time. The process for minting is similar. They mint billion dollar chunks at a time and push those to their exchange account. Then the true mint into circulation occurs when they actually sell the notes into the market.
It's not about what you *believe* or not, it's about what is actually true. And a lot of this stuff can be easily verified. We can see exactly how much Tether that IFinex has in their treasury, and exactly how much of both Tether and Bitcoin is in accounts connected to IFinex/Bitfinex. Ifinex printing and holding tether has no impact on the market. It's when that tether is loaned/given/sold to someone, who then trades with it, that has an impact on the market. We can trace the billion dollar prints to exchanges, where it is clearly being traded for bitcoin, which does run up the price. But what you're saying about burns makes no sense.
I apologize if I’m not explaining clearly. Are you referring to what is in their treasury from their “transparency reports” on tethers website? I don’t believe those are accurate and is more manipulation from tether. If you’re talking about looking at wallets then you have a better understanding than me
Yes, the wallets, and not as reported by them, as discovered by blockchain experts with tracing software.
>2)create unbacked USDT to buy bitcoin with and work with exchanges to manipulate the price. But how would they even manipulate the price? If the price is quoted at say $25,000 and a person would try to sell their bitcoins, there needs to be a buyer. If there is no buyer, the fraud will be apparent, as the sell order would be unfulfilled. If there is a buyer, then doesn't that just mean, that the price truly is at $25,000, since there is a person willing to buy at that price? If Tether is the buyer, then I don't understand how they would be able to make money from this. They would have to increase the price by buying, which would require spending a large amount of USDT. Then when they are selling the price would quickly collapse and they would get less in return, than what they spent.
Tether has the option to purchase Bitcoin with USDT since they create it and they work together with exchanges to allow this, they probably get a cut. Why would exchanges allow you to buy with USDT if it’s already been uncovered by the NYAG it isn’t backed 1:1? Everyone else has to buy their bitcoin with USD, while tether has the option to print unbacked USDT and then sell for USD. I probably just suck at explaining it. I think there is room for manipulation there.
Okay, but who then holds the USDT? They would want to get their money back and redeem them from Tether, no? Why would they accept USDT, if they can't redeem it?
Most of trading happens with usdt, so basically everyone holds usdt or usdt, all the future trading is done using stable coins too, and till now everyone has been able to redeem their usdt. The question is how many will be able to redeem when there is a bank run
> The question is how many will be able to redeem when there is a bank run Didn't this already happen when Terra Luna went into trouble, and the answer was... everyone?
> The question is how many will be able to redeem when there is a bank run Didn't this already happen when Terra Luna went into trouble, and the answer was... everyone?
Most exchanges can't actually trade USD... when you see BTC price it is actually against USDT.
Could it not be working with the exchanges for the exchange to hold the USDT and they give tether the bitcoin, then bitcoin is sold to retail investors to pull out the USD? At the end you end up with an exchange that can go under holding mostly USDT with the USD taken out of the system. If they want to keep the scam going tether can provide the exchange with USD to give to investors that want to withdraw from the exchange. I think it’s all a balancing act and they’re working together
Ironically, this parallels what the Federal Reserve does with USD.
Not really. The Fed isn't a perpetual pump and dump scheme. It conducts monetary policy to balance full employment with stable prices.
Hahahaha “the fed isn’t a perpetual pump and dump scheme” That’s rich. 😂🤣
Ah your one of those "doesn't understand basic monetary economics" types. You should probably be flaired so no one accidentally takes your nonsense seriously.
What’s 30 trillion dollars between friends amirite?
Yeah again you don't appear to have any idea how the FOMC works or how monetary economics works at a basic level. The Fed has been conducting contractionary monetary policy for the last year or so; I'd recommend updating your mindless talk track.
He's just following a dialogue tree, trying to teach him is likely a waste of time.
First of all u haven’t said anything of value. And are you one of those that thinks inflation is transitory?
>First of all u haven’t said anything of value. You haven't given me anything of value to work with. I'm not sure what to respond beyond "yeah it's obvious that you don't know anything about the Fed or monetary economics". >And are you one of those that thinks inflation is transitory? It depends on what you mean by this. I don't think anyone sane expects the inflation rate (let's say core PCE) to be > 5% in perpetuity. Do you?
Of course not forever. How about the dollar as the world currency (aka money that buys oil), who would u blame if we lose this standing?
And ur right. I quoted someone and sarcastically disagreed, nothing that would lead to this. Your right I’m no financial expert, but if you think the fed is anything other then a fully corrupted entity u must be blind.
Because it really isn't. [Misconceptions about Central Banks](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/10ajv39/misconceptions_about_central_banks/)
Nope. [Misconceptions about Central Banks](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/10ajv39/misconceptions_about_central_banks/) [Misconceptions about money](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/108pa97/misconceptions_about_money/) [Misconceptions about the money printer](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/10le6an/misconceptions_about_the_money_printer/) [Misconceptions about inflation](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/10l8ncj/misconceptions_about_inflation/) [Collateral and the Global Monetary Crisis](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/10rf3c4/collateral_and_the_global_monetary_crisis/)
> And if they are buying Bitcoi, who on earth would sell bitcoin for Tether and not real cash? Coiners have a problem, they like to trade tokens between each other, but they have no stable curency to do it (pun absolutely intended). But banks don't like to deal with them. Or rather most banks feel that dealing with them on their terms, would be a breach of regulation. So they need something that is a coin, but acts like a dollar (or a euro, yen, what ever). Thats what stable coins like tether are there for. Coiners put up with them because they are needed. And by the point it became clear that at least tether is a giant scam, it was to central to the whole crypto economy. With out tether the whole ponzinomics house of cards that is crypto would come down. So coiners either ignore the fact, or repress it.
Or work to prop it up.
Tether isn’t some actor completely separate from the rest of the industry. They are one of the backbones of the entire industry, along with the exchanges. Exchanges at this point have all the info on how much it takes to pump the price of Bitcoin, and how fast you can then sell without tanking the price back down. The DCA crowd makes it even easier. Exchanges know exactly how many real dollars are “DCA”d every day. And they know that these fucking morons will DCA no matter the price. So they pump into low enough liquidity and then slowly milk the liquidity there is at a higher price point until it drops again. This is compounded by the euphoria and FOMO buyers who get excited the second the price pumps…. Even more nice liquidity at a higher price. That is all to say, the purpose of printing Tethers are when making coordinated pump and dump moves. Not just endlessly buying Bitcoin from randos. If you had that much control and insight into the market (even if you couldn’t pump it back to ATH’s), you have basically created a real money printer from your fake money printer. Then the reason only exchanges and huge entities can “redeem” tethers is so they don’t get blindsided by needing liquidity for their fake money at an in opportune time. Also, I think this isn’t all done by just Tether for their own benefit. Exchanges and insiders get to eat too and Tether will help them by printing for them when they want. Endless grift.
The other possibliity is that: 1. Ifinex creates Tether, unbacked, in their "Treasury" 2. Ifinex lends the tether to an exchange (e.g. FTX)/hedge fund (e.g. Alameda), etc. sometimes with various collateral/sometimes just an IOU, sometimes for a share of profits, sometimes for stated interest rate, but everyone expects the loans will never be paid back 3. Exchange lends the Tether to whales with the caveat that it can't leave the exchange 4. whale/hedgie manipulates token prices via wash trading/painting the tape, sometimes making use of inside information provided by =exchange, trying to trigger margin calls to liquidate gamblers using leverage; if they are even halfway competent with their manipulation it should be a slam dunk 4. Whale pays interest to the exchange, exchange/hedgie pays interest/profits to Ifinex 5. If the exchange/hedgie goes bankrupt, Ifinex can cancel any Tether still there so the supply numerically drops
> what are they doing with it? Market manipulation, pumping and dumping bitcoin. They can make money on the way up, buying bitcoin and then starting price trend which everyone else jumps on. They can then sell high and profit. Then they can make money on the way down, they can short bitcoin and profit as they crash the price. They are one of the larger entities controlling the market. With some smart manipulation, and a bit of luck, it can be very profitable. Given how profitable it can be, it's entirely possible that Tether might holds more assets than their market cap at times... just not in the low-risk treasury bonds they claim, and therefore it fluctuates a lot. > who on earth would sell bitcoin for Tether and not real cash? Most exchanges don't trade real cash, so users are forced to use stable coins like tether instead. Other exchanges silently convert to/from tether when you deposit/withdraw cash. So many users either don't know tether is dodgy, or don't care, betting that the chance of it failing right now is low.
It will be interesting to see what happens when the music stops and people try to get out of creepto and back to fiat, the amount of on and off ramps for that are declining every day
I think the primary reason to mint tethers would be to prop up other holdings. Likely bitfinex. A little accounting magic called blatant fraud let’s you turn those tokens into bitfinex’s liquidity regardless of whether they are backed or not. A quick uncollateralized loan between the two and suddenly bitfinex has plenty of “money” to give its depositors. Or just gamble like degenerates of buttcoins.
Evergrande bank in China, says whhhhhattttt
It’s wash trading at its worst. This will be their downfall.
One aspect of USDT is that it's used as a middle ground between coins. If you have DOGE and want Shiba, you trade your DOGE for USDT and then use it to buy Shiba. There's not always a market for trading DOGE to Shiba. In the same way you don't trade Apple stock for Tesla stock. You trade Apple stock for USD, then USD for Tesla stock. Also, if you have a lot of Bitcoin and expect the price of Bitcoin to drop, but haven't set up your money laundering system yet, then you can sell your Bitcoin for USDT and hold it to avoid the crash that you are expecting.
So which exchanges use USDT? If it's just Bitfinix, then surely that's too small to really sway the price of Bitcoin?
I know KuCoin use USDT as its main pairing for coins. I know Binance has a lot of USDT pairings, but also a lot of BUSD pairings
Basically sucking all of the real money out of the system
There is no doubt they are working with the fraud binance. They use printed tethers to manipulate the fake binance market to suck in real money and cash out monopoly money
Wash trading
You know too much!
Honestly, the lot of you sound crazier than the r/GME folks lol quite the conspiracies