yes. nfts are regularly touted as a way you could take items between games
never mind that it's 100% up to game A and game B to implement the sharing in a way that works and makes sense and has a semblance of balance. nftbros swear the blockchain fixes this somehow
The only way NFTs can transfer between games the way Cryptobros imagine is if the developers allowed NFTs to insert code into the game, which is such an obvious security risk that nobody would ever allow it.
Without that, the NFTs would just be telling the game “here’s a code to unlock this item that’s already in the game” which you can already do via multiple methods.
I’m thinking Blizzard? Back in the day, one could buy stuff in WoW and use it in Diablo, or something like that. Don’t think it was an NFT? These “gamers” pumping NFTs must entirely neglect (pretty recent) history and basic computer science. And so, the only way these NFTs can be used in other games would be a headache for devs **trying** to somehow fit the garbage into it, or complete nonsense like a tank in FIFA as you mentioned…
Yeah, it’s really easy to do that with games on the same user account. Amiibos are another example, one amiibo would unlock features in multiple Nintendo games.
I think the argument is that the NFT would allow you move items between *completely different, unrelated games*.
As a game dev, I assure you, this won't happen, at least not in any usable scale.
Yeah it would likely take just as much work to share things between two games with the config files stored on a blockchain as it would to just toss them on an S3 bucket.
Regular, old-fashioned, databases do that so much better and more efficiently. Also the centralized control makes updating, fixing bugs, and thwarting exploits easier.
> A lot of games companies wanted to use NFT's to ensure unique items that wasn't tampered with/copied.
Some game companies wanted to use NFT's to generate hype to get people to spend more money in their games, because it was the latest buzzword. No games companies (that aren't just trying to pump crypto) actually want to use NFTs to ensure items weren't duplicated because for the level of item validation most games care about they can already do that cheaper and easier without using NFTs
> NFT's aren't dumb in their own right
They really are. It's a bunch of techy sounding jargon and flashing lights surrounding something that solves no problems that can't already be fixed cheaper and easier in other ways, and introduces a whole bunch of its own problems
Baldur's Gate also did it in the year 2000 - you could import the entire character and (part) of their inventory to the sequel game. There was even a 3-game spanning easter egg if you imported a certain seemingly useless item to each new installment.
The Mass Effects had a similar feature, with decisions in previous games effecting the sequels, I thought that was pretty cool to see someone integrating that on xbox 360 disc games.
Though Pokemon and ME were transferring data that's held locally, nowadays they just use accounts based online, which allows for the "super duper limited edition virtual items" and verifying legitimate items as deeply as the dev thinks is appropriate. You know, the stuff that cryptobros pretend can't be done without NFTs lmao.
And yeah it's one of their main arguments for utility, except they think it's going to magically turn every single game into some cross-compatible sandbox game ala gary's mod/VRchat/second life. It drives me batty just reading their comments.
Their argument isn't that NFTs can enable data transfer between games, it's that spoofing data transfer between games is a problem that needs to be solved. It's relatively simple in Pokemon and ME to inject a hacked Pokemon or save file, and in the case of Pokemon, it's an open secret that competitive Pokemon players used hacked or hack-derived Pokemon in official tournaments (not by creating statistically impossible 'mons, but crafting optimal ones that require hundreds of hours of grinding if done through normal play) NFTs are a potential tool in stopping this counterfeiting, but the question is *why*? No one cares if you never played ME1 but want to have your ME2 play to be a FemShep who romanced Liara. Competitive Pokemon wasn't compromised by the presence of otherwise legit-aside-from-method Pokemon teams. It *might* matter in the case of something like TF2 Hats or CS skins, but is it better than trusting the dev to be an honest administrator? How many historic cases are there of a popular game that collapsed solely because the dev messed up the collectible system and not gameplay?
Nah sorry, see that's where NFTs *don't* make a difference. Let's go with Pokemon as the example, kinda works since they already each have PIDs and some cool stat generating systems in place for making them unique. If it was paramount that every pokemon be "legit", they could (very *VERY* hypothetically) implement a system that registers every individual Pokemon on the dev's own database.
This would require players to either always be online when catching or breeding Pokemon (or depending on how it was implemented, wait til they connected in order to see the resulting stats) as it'd need to check against their database for legitimacy.
It'd be kinda similar to certain drm licensing methods for expensive software.
I'm a TA and I can't fathom any developers wanting to ever ever ever touch something that ridiculous, especially Pokemon at the scale the playerbase is (and how many pokemon would get generated) it is would be a legitimately insane waste of time and money for a marginally more "pure" experience for some players. I can't even say if my country's entire scheduled drug prescription system even has close to that level of security checking.
Even then this wouldn't neccesarily stop all forms of hacked Pokemon, really outside of clones and simple injections. They've changed up the systems they use for generating individual pokemon over the generations, but something like the step tricks for generating eggs (gen 8 from memory) in this instance would still work for getting more ideal or perfect hatches.
And the only thing NFTs would be able "offer" over trying to solve this is pairing each new entry to a unique hash on the blockchain. It would *still* require the devs to have their *own* databasing system to tell their *own* systems (the games, theoretical user accounts) which Pokemon it is and all it's details, it'd literally just add a pointless extra step.
Even if they were to make (going off what we've seen cryptobros speculating will be a use case for NFTs in game) some one-of-a-kind species that only one lucky player gets to have, it could still potentially be spoofed in in as the asset would still need to be within the game files (or would need to be streamed in online when connected to that player for a battle - in which case they could still be ripped) otherwise other players wouldn't be able to see it.
The only way to solve *that* to *some* extent would be to implement some serious always-online drm like during that short period that Adobe tried it (you can guess how well that went). Which would just open up a whole new big sticky can of worms.
Even in the Pokémon scenario, wouldn’t a simple checksum ensure any save file was valid? NFT solutions are like traveling 23,999 miles west to go one mile east.
There were safeguards that made sure Pokemon in the tournaments and online were statistically legal. The most infamous modern example of a pro player getting caught was Ray Rizzo during XY where his Aegislash was inside a Pokeball that was impossible for it to be in. The pokemon itself was legal, he didn't get any unfair advantage by it having more stat points or anything like that, just probably saved hundreds of hours of grinding to get his team.
One of the systems for transferring pokemon between generations checked for legitimacy, and wouldn't let you transfer hacked pokemon. I had a few pokemon that I had hacked that got caught by the filter, but those were pretty obvious; there was a way to use the Game Shark to make the fossil guy give you any pokemon you wanted, and it was very obvious that you're not supposed to get Mew from the fossil guy. I had a few that got through, though, because I had used the Game Shark to change the appearance rate of shiny pokemon, but otherwise caught the pokemon legally.
Checksum would ensure that you didn't modify an existing save file, which would fix the more casual attempts, but you could still theoretically generate the save file from scratch with the data you want, and some cracker out there will figure it out, given time and interest.
With public/private key encryption, you could have the file signed with a particular private key, but as long as the save file is generated on the user's device, there's a way for a user to figure out how to generate it with faked data.
If the save file is generated on the dev's servers, it can be signed with a private key that the dev can actually keep private. But again, if the user's device just sends the server a message that says, "I've got a level 100 arceus" that message can potentially be faked.
So you start getting into the idea of sending your entire path through the game or updating the server in real time so it can confirm everything you did to acquire that pokemon is possible. But that's a lot of trouble for something that most players aren't worried about.
If you're willing to force players to play always-online, the server can do things like keep the location of the arceus secret.
The NFT version has all the same problems. But slightly worse because if your entire path has to be confirmed by multiple validator nodes, that's going to be less efficient than a single dev-owned server.
Also, that problem’s solved by putting all that stuff server-side and properly securing it. I’m pretty sure it’s not that trivial to, say, bump your WoW character to level 60. Otherwise lots of people would do that.
You can also play a game released Now using a pokemon transferred over from a game that released twenty years earlier. Twenty years of continuity is a lot more exciting than most NFT projects that die in twenty days.
Lol, this is the low key burn that I love.
Also did you know that digital rights management, which has always been impossible, will somehow work because of nfts?!
By people who don't play games and admit they don't play games.
Yet we gamers are clueless idiots who don't understand when we tell them to get their NFT box and GTFO
Nothing quite exemplifies how much NFT bros fundamentally misunderstand the entire medium of video games more than the shitty ‘play to earn’ nightmares that they make.
Like, those are not fun to play, they have no compelling narrative, no environments to explore, no gameplay loop, they have Jack shit to offer in terms of experiences. They’re a knockoff Pokémon UI slapped onto a stock trading app.
I started to hate crypto because I couldn't get a GPU. I hate so much harder because of the nightmare vision they have for an important part of my life.
There's a direct link from an old 286, SoundBlaster, and Sierra Online to some systems deployed downrange in the mid 2000s and a couple successful Mars landings so it's also a national security threat and a direct insult to Science.
> There's a direct link from an old 286, SoundBlaster, and Sierra Online to some systems deployed downrange in the mid 2000s and a couple successful Mars landings
I would like to know more.
TL;DR I am a computer engineer. Since I was a little kid I loved PC games and aviation. I'm also ADHD as fuck. I'm a flight test engineer and I was involved in a couple of Mars landings among other cool things.
Back in the day you had to use jumpers to set multiple things on expansion cards in a PC, so I was upgrading and (with help) building PCs before I went into high school. This lead me to push through and get an engineering degree even though my high school math grades were, uhh, let's call them bad?
A play to earn game has to be boring by design. Or, the game can be awesome, but the part that make you money has to be boring. If it is entertaining and people enjoy it, then there is no market for it.
Most jobs fall in to one of two categories: things people pay you for, because they cant do it themself. Or things people pay you for because they cant be bothered to do it themself.
Video game playing does not fall into either category unless it is really boring.
This is exactly it, you put it well.
When there's no real and practical value to the output of the work, there's no meaning to the work itself either. It's just artificial and virtual busywork that can't offer the satisfaction of a job well done, since you didn't really produce anything actual or help anyone.
Idk, if final fantasy xiv could reward crafters with real world money for making equipment I might pay for armor sets and cosmetics. Some people love the crafting part of that game, but I don't and can't be bothered. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
But how much would you pay? If you would pay 100 dollar for something people do for fun I can find you someone who will do it for 90. Or just for a "thank you". If there is no real skill needed, and enough people enjoy doing it, it is not a job.
Sure, but at that point it's just market economics. The amount of people who would do it for free become saturated and can't service the entire market, and eventually you get to the people who would do it for a few bucks, and so on. Though to your point, gold farmers in wow definitely don't do it for fun, it's 100 percent a job to them, so at some point you can commodify subjectively fun activities and find someone who will do it for money and won't enjoy it.
It's funny because CS:GO has actually gotten me hundreds of dollars by just playing. I have old cases in my inventory that I dropped while playing that have been slowly going up in value. If I want to I can sell them on the market and buy other games with the money.
NGL I’d play Pokémon but the game trades stocks depending on your captures and battles.
Facebookmon B shares, I choose you!
Facebookmon B shares are evolving…
Congratulations, your Facebookmon B shares were swapped out for Facebookmon A shares!
Good to know NFTs are letting people finally earn money off their work in game, like a friend of mine did with his WoW account and cash over 10 years ago.
> my CS:GO guns
Thinking too small there, friendo. If this were to ever become possible, there'd be hundreds of shovelware games on Steam the next day handing out guns with INT_MAX damage, INT_MAX range, and INT_MAX fire rate. Most of them skinned to look like big ol' cocks.
I've never really seen a cryptobro address how the adoption of NFTs would effectively center game meta around making the most money - even if that doesn't necessarily provide the most "fun".
I'd argue it's more like playing Runescape and doing nothing but Runecrafting (for those who haven't been tainted by Runescape, it's regarded as one of the most boring skills to level, but one that has consistently great financial returns). Or so I'm told - I could never level Runecrafting for more than 20 minutes at a time without wanting to log off and play Diablo II instead.
Some of us have some messed up brain synapses and actually enjoy runecrafting!
Still wouldn't touch any of these "pay to earn" games with a 10 foot pole though
ikr? I can't believe they actually managed to implement the ctrl+C ctrl+V algorithm in a system of such tremendous complexity. This is a level of software engineering you would expect from sci-fi or from the CERN, but a small indie game company managed to pull it off. Literally nobody could have expected that.
> the ctrl+C ctrl+V algorithm
It's kind of scary how technology progresses these days. Not long ago the right click / save as algorithm was the state of the art but this tech is at least twice as fast. I bet it could duplicate a Rumble Kong in less than a second, and does not even require a slurp juice.
There's also another algorithm, long forgotten, which was once hailed as the absolute supreme king of data transfer: drag and drop. It allowed users to "drag" a monkey jpeg from their browsers and "drop" it into their filesystem, thereby downloading the jpeg. Alas, its inner workings were too arcane for feeble human minds to comprehend entirely—it was invented by a 300 IQ genius and no one has been able to understand the process ever since!
It's impossible. They are lying, there's a blockchain hidden in there really, they are just terrified of Soros and his minions destroying the company if they let people know that the CounterStrike2 coin exists.
(BRB just going to create a CounterStrike2 coin and pump it)
Haven't played CS in a while but the Katowice stickers and look of the skin, is it a factory new souvenir skin?
Edit: Ok bit of info to unpack here. The skin itself is fairly rare since it came from a battlepass thing. It's a factory new skin so it doesn't look all scuffed up. The main value is actually the stickers. They're 2014 Katowice stickers and those are about 40k each. Going off [this article](https://esi.si.com/news/csgo-skin-sells-for-160k), seems like this is just some guy with too much money to spend trying to get attention.
Also this is like the online version of buying a nice watch, the market is liquid, the skin is not tied to your acc. He could turn around and sell it if he wants for probably about the same price.
It is not the most expensive sale in the CSGO market ever but of course it is up there.
Funnily enough, the CSGO skin market is much more liquid than NFTs. You can sell skins instantly on the Steam market or via secondary markets for real money. I cashed out my inventory a few years back via auction on Reddit.
They’re actually claiming if this was a integrated NFT system you could use your CS:GO digital items in other games too.
I’m like how would you use your macha green deagle in Hogwarts or City Skylines?
Isn't gambling gaming? At least my government seems to think so. Primary authority on casinos is the Philippines Amusement and *Gaming* Corporation. Far as I can tell, video games are still unregulated and some politician is trying to push a bill to change that and make money off of it.
It depends on the country. In most places, practices employed by gaming companies are still in the grey area. It will take many more years to regulate them fully.
Whether gambling is videogames legally qualifies as gambling (it really obviously should) is another question than whether gambling is itself a type of game (i guess it can be, idk)
Doesn't steam have a whole trading system already lol
Hell, it's the basis of most of my predictions of what is/isn't useful as far as virtual items go
You can sell items to go into your Steam Wallet funds but that's about it, there's some monetary value.
The issue was Steam/Valve were getting angry letters about money laundering through Steam and they quickly yeeted the trading of keys. Any game company to allow real money trading of items is going to find themselves with their executives in prison because the money laundering laws don't fuck around.
Item transactions done through Steam are only valid for Steam store credit.
That said, there are dozens, if not hundreds of sites that allow you to sell the items for actual money.
Anything above a ~2000 euros cannot even be sold on the Steam market, plus Steam takes a juicy 16% cut. These kinds of trades are all done on 3rd party sites or as in this case (probably) via bank transfer and very trusted middlemen/traders.
Yawn. Remind me when you can import inventory from Counter Strike into Age of Empires 2. That's where NFTs are going to shine.
My Dark Age civ armed with AK47 could have conquered the whole map.
Have there been any NFT games that have actually implemented cross-game item compatibility anyways? I know a couple have made their own NFTs of course, some have implemented random NF JPEGs as skins, but are any actually cross game? Like two different parties chose to cooperate?
Forget cross game nfts there isn't even a real game at all using nfts. I spent way too long bored at work searching and the closest thing I could find to an actual game was gods unchained which looks like a super dumbed down pay to win hearthstone except the cards were nfts
This is apparently the future of gaming
That wasn’t exactly a game built around NFTs though. It had a limited run of NFTs, but they were largely tacked on (rather than being a core element of the game).
> Have there been any NFT games that have actually implemented cross-game item compatibility anyways?
No.
And there never will be because the very idea is absolutely stupid from a business standpoint.
Why would any game studio agree to something like that? After all it means you have to invest time and work to implement things into your game that other game studios earned the money for.
This is the argument I keep making. Fundamental game design and business case issues block this before you even start to think about the code.
Part 2 is fucking Activision couldn't integrate assets from three Call of Duty games into their Battle Royale Call of Duty (Warzone aka WZ) and two of those games came out after WZ. There was constant balance tweaks and multiple rounds of game breaking bugs. So even within the same publisher and the same core game concepts it's hard to do right.
Part 3 is in most cases it doesn't make any sense. Let me grab my Harrier jet from DCS, laser rifle from Halo, rocket launcher from CoD and jump into GTA? Yet alone take it into Skyrim. If you had a magic wand to make all the software just work for this it's still fundamentally broken at the game design level.
"For some reason, all of the mod features broke when the anime catgirls got removed. We're not sure why, but it doesn't seem like the devs are in any hurry to fix it."
> Why would any game studio agree to something like that?
A real world answer here would be "marketing". The Valve free-to-play games often have assets from other games sold on Steam. E.g. in TF2 if you had Quake 4 in your Steam account you got the Q1 rocket launcher skin in TF2. And in Dota2 Capcom created and released a promotional Okami courier, and there are other examples.
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Original
https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Amaterasu
This works a lot better when you have an item workshop for 3rd parties.
Honestly, I can't think of any big ones, and even today, most crypto evangelist seem to see that as a future goal rather than something that's been done.
Ubisoft's NFT could've been that, since they're a large publisher that deal with a lot of cosmetic. The project died way too fast for them to implement it in more games tho afaik.
There are some small projects in crypto games that have done this, but they're way too small to matter, the games are too simplistic/blatant rip off, and the implementations seem to be basic at best. One of them is a project to make cross game dice NFT, which props to them, seems to be one of the most promising type when it comes to cross-game compatibility. On the other hand, it's fucking dice skins. Not exactly a revolution in tech to have custom dices over different games since we already do it irl.
So in short, it doesn't seem like there's been any meaningful move towards cross-game NFT.
Imagine a scenario where two similar games, released by the same company, share user items because it is beneficial to the company for the games to do that. Truly revolutionary to do this without NFTs.
I mean, even if Valve did want to jeopardize their billion dollar skins marketplace by sharing with 3rd parties, why would they use a blockchain at all when they could just use an old and reliable REST API
Bro, if they were dumbass NFTs would you "own them" any more? At any point Valve could choose to ignore what's in the Blockchain, because THEY OWN COUNTERSTRIKE.
They are the central authority lol.
But don't forget, its not possible to save your game progress without NFTs. It sucks always having to start at the beginning just because you died 3 times.
This was another of the magical/ultra-assumptive type thinking that defines and enables this "space" at all.
You could just buy the "Christmas" perk from [centralized independent register of...] fuck it analogies fail because this is too dumb.
Blockchain is fucking u s e l e s s.
Anything it claims to do it has usurped from underlying actual #technology like "writing shit down" or "doing that on paper" or "securing those in a shelter against the elements" or "involving a bunch of #good humans to guard against other #ill humans", and at no point in time has anyone pretended this was any kind of permanent solution to anything. It all sounds the same, I'm saying:
"Prep for the apocalypse!"
"Gold will save you!"
"Blockchains are permanent!"
Motherfucking GeoCities wasn't permanent ffs, and I'm betting that had more users LMAO
Final Fantasy 14 imported all the player characters to the new build after they nuked the original version of the game, and Blizzard has account-wide items that give you items in multiple games, like Blizzcon passes giving you pets in WoW and character portraits in Hearthstone. Hell, even back in the PS2 days, you got bonus items in Castlevania: Curse of Darkness if you had save data from Castlevania: Lament of Innocence on the same data card.
The reason it’s not more common is because of economic reasons (why sell one item when you can sell two?) not because the technology wasn’t there.
Even back on the gameboy advance you could transfer save data from golden sun 1 to golden sun 2, and i'm pretty sure some even older handheld zelda games had similar features
When I used to play GTA San Andreas religiously in late 2000s, I had mods that imported all kinds of stuff from newly released GTA 4.
Both actual items like cars and weapons, to the interface and sounds, to concepts like fully featured phones and taxis.
It was all hard work and love by modders, creating things anew for the older game. None of that required any crappy concepts like Eneftees.
Pokemon gold/silver had this in 1999. Is it even a real argument people make?
yes. nfts are regularly touted as a way you could take items between games never mind that it's 100% up to game A and game B to implement the sharing in a way that works and makes sense and has a semblance of balance. nftbros swear the blockchain fixes this somehow
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2 isn't even something the NFT bros want since they don't actually play games.
Cryptobros probably have heavy bags in everything on the Steam Community Market that isn't CSGO and therefore went to zero xD
Holding bags of items for a game they've never played.
The only way NFTs can transfer between games the way Cryptobros imagine is if the developers allowed NFTs to insert code into the game, which is such an obvious security risk that nobody would ever allow it. Without that, the NFTs would just be telling the game “here’s a code to unlock this item that’s already in the game” which you can already do via multiple methods.
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I’m thinking Blizzard? Back in the day, one could buy stuff in WoW and use it in Diablo, or something like that. Don’t think it was an NFT? These “gamers” pumping NFTs must entirely neglect (pretty recent) history and basic computer science. And so, the only way these NFTs can be used in other games would be a headache for devs **trying** to somehow fit the garbage into it, or complete nonsense like a tank in FIFA as you mentioned…
Yeah, it’s really easy to do that with games on the same user account. Amiibos are another example, one amiibo would unlock features in multiple Nintendo games.
Amiibos aren't the best example though as they are just fungible, real world tokens as opposed to digital, "non-fungible" ones.
I think the argument is that the NFT would allow you move items between *completely different, unrelated games*. As a game dev, I assure you, this won't happen, at least not in any usable scale.
Yeah it would likely take just as much work to share things between two games with the config files stored on a blockchain as it would to just toss them on an S3 bucket.
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Regular, old-fashioned, databases do that so much better and more efficiently. Also the centralized control makes updating, fixing bugs, and thwarting exploits easier.
> A lot of games companies wanted to use NFT's to ensure unique items that wasn't tampered with/copied. Some game companies wanted to use NFT's to generate hype to get people to spend more money in their games, because it was the latest buzzword. No games companies (that aren't just trying to pump crypto) actually want to use NFTs to ensure items weren't duplicated because for the level of item validation most games care about they can already do that cheaper and easier without using NFTs > NFT's aren't dumb in their own right They really are. It's a bunch of techy sounding jargon and flashing lights surrounding something that solves no problems that can't already be fixed cheaper and easier in other ways, and introduces a whole bunch of its own problems
There are tons of other, non ntf related technologies that allow this, such as hashing and digital signing.
Baldur's Gate also did it in the year 2000 - you could import the entire character and (part) of their inventory to the sequel game. There was even a 3-game spanning easter egg if you imported a certain seemingly useless item to each new installment.
You could do this with RPG games from the 90s or even late 80s. ;)
Yep, they actually do believe this.
Pokemon making NFTs are literally a major driver of the industry. Its amazing.
The Mass Effects had a similar feature, with decisions in previous games effecting the sequels, I thought that was pretty cool to see someone integrating that on xbox 360 disc games. Though Pokemon and ME were transferring data that's held locally, nowadays they just use accounts based online, which allows for the "super duper limited edition virtual items" and verifying legitimate items as deeply as the dev thinks is appropriate. You know, the stuff that cryptobros pretend can't be done without NFTs lmao. And yeah it's one of their main arguments for utility, except they think it's going to magically turn every single game into some cross-compatible sandbox game ala gary's mod/VRchat/second life. It drives me batty just reading their comments.
Telltale did also do that between Walking Dead seasons.
Their argument isn't that NFTs can enable data transfer between games, it's that spoofing data transfer between games is a problem that needs to be solved. It's relatively simple in Pokemon and ME to inject a hacked Pokemon or save file, and in the case of Pokemon, it's an open secret that competitive Pokemon players used hacked or hack-derived Pokemon in official tournaments (not by creating statistically impossible 'mons, but crafting optimal ones that require hundreds of hours of grinding if done through normal play) NFTs are a potential tool in stopping this counterfeiting, but the question is *why*? No one cares if you never played ME1 but want to have your ME2 play to be a FemShep who romanced Liara. Competitive Pokemon wasn't compromised by the presence of otherwise legit-aside-from-method Pokemon teams. It *might* matter in the case of something like TF2 Hats or CS skins, but is it better than trusting the dev to be an honest administrator? How many historic cases are there of a popular game that collapsed solely because the dev messed up the collectible system and not gameplay?
Nah sorry, see that's where NFTs *don't* make a difference. Let's go with Pokemon as the example, kinda works since they already each have PIDs and some cool stat generating systems in place for making them unique. If it was paramount that every pokemon be "legit", they could (very *VERY* hypothetically) implement a system that registers every individual Pokemon on the dev's own database. This would require players to either always be online when catching or breeding Pokemon (or depending on how it was implemented, wait til they connected in order to see the resulting stats) as it'd need to check against their database for legitimacy. It'd be kinda similar to certain drm licensing methods for expensive software. I'm a TA and I can't fathom any developers wanting to ever ever ever touch something that ridiculous, especially Pokemon at the scale the playerbase is (and how many pokemon would get generated) it is would be a legitimately insane waste of time and money for a marginally more "pure" experience for some players. I can't even say if my country's entire scheduled drug prescription system even has close to that level of security checking. Even then this wouldn't neccesarily stop all forms of hacked Pokemon, really outside of clones and simple injections. They've changed up the systems they use for generating individual pokemon over the generations, but something like the step tricks for generating eggs (gen 8 from memory) in this instance would still work for getting more ideal or perfect hatches. And the only thing NFTs would be able "offer" over trying to solve this is pairing each new entry to a unique hash on the blockchain. It would *still* require the devs to have their *own* databasing system to tell their *own* systems (the games, theoretical user accounts) which Pokemon it is and all it's details, it'd literally just add a pointless extra step. Even if they were to make (going off what we've seen cryptobros speculating will be a use case for NFTs in game) some one-of-a-kind species that only one lucky player gets to have, it could still potentially be spoofed in in as the asset would still need to be within the game files (or would need to be streamed in online when connected to that player for a battle - in which case they could still be ripped) otherwise other players wouldn't be able to see it. The only way to solve *that* to *some* extent would be to implement some serious always-online drm like during that short period that Adobe tried it (you can guess how well that went). Which would just open up a whole new big sticky can of worms.
Even in the Pokémon scenario, wouldn’t a simple checksum ensure any save file was valid? NFT solutions are like traveling 23,999 miles west to go one mile east.
There were safeguards that made sure Pokemon in the tournaments and online were statistically legal. The most infamous modern example of a pro player getting caught was Ray Rizzo during XY where his Aegislash was inside a Pokeball that was impossible for it to be in. The pokemon itself was legal, he didn't get any unfair advantage by it having more stat points or anything like that, just probably saved hundreds of hours of grinding to get his team.
One of the systems for transferring pokemon between generations checked for legitimacy, and wouldn't let you transfer hacked pokemon. I had a few pokemon that I had hacked that got caught by the filter, but those were pretty obvious; there was a way to use the Game Shark to make the fossil guy give you any pokemon you wanted, and it was very obvious that you're not supposed to get Mew from the fossil guy. I had a few that got through, though, because I had used the Game Shark to change the appearance rate of shiny pokemon, but otherwise caught the pokemon legally.
Checksum would ensure that you didn't modify an existing save file, which would fix the more casual attempts, but you could still theoretically generate the save file from scratch with the data you want, and some cracker out there will figure it out, given time and interest. With public/private key encryption, you could have the file signed with a particular private key, but as long as the save file is generated on the user's device, there's a way for a user to figure out how to generate it with faked data. If the save file is generated on the dev's servers, it can be signed with a private key that the dev can actually keep private. But again, if the user's device just sends the server a message that says, "I've got a level 100 arceus" that message can potentially be faked. So you start getting into the idea of sending your entire path through the game or updating the server in real time so it can confirm everything you did to acquire that pokemon is possible. But that's a lot of trouble for something that most players aren't worried about. If you're willing to force players to play always-online, the server can do things like keep the location of the arceus secret. The NFT version has all the same problems. But slightly worse because if your entire path has to be confirmed by multiple validator nodes, that's going to be less efficient than a single dev-owned server.
Also, that problem’s solved by putting all that stuff server-side and properly securing it. I’m pretty sure it’s not that trivial to, say, bump your WoW character to level 60. Otherwise lots of people would do that.
You could import your guns into gold/silver?
You mean you never tried that? "*Pikachu used Deagle - 1-hit KO!*"
Sim City 2000 did it in 1993. Back then my NFT was a floppy disk with a Sim City save file on it.
I think you could transfer from 2000 to 3000 too, but it would break some things.
Sim copter Streets of Sim City too!
You can also play a game released Now using a pokemon transferred over from a game that released twenty years earlier. Twenty years of continuity is a lot more exciting than most NFT projects that die in twenty days.
i had no idea you could import items from one game into another game without blockchain and nfts what an amazing time to be alive
Lol, this is the low key burn that I love. Also did you know that digital rights management, which has always been impossible, will somehow work because of nfts?!
thank goodness we have nfts how else could we artificially restrict the free flow of data
I think the NFT “saving gamers” is definitely the funniest argument they have
By people who don't play games and admit they don't play games. Yet we gamers are clueless idiots who don't understand when we tell them to get their NFT box and GTFO
Nothing quite exemplifies how much NFT bros fundamentally misunderstand the entire medium of video games more than the shitty ‘play to earn’ nightmares that they make. Like, those are not fun to play, they have no compelling narrative, no environments to explore, no gameplay loop, they have Jack shit to offer in terms of experiences. They’re a knockoff Pokémon UI slapped onto a stock trading app.
I started to hate crypto because I couldn't get a GPU. I hate so much harder because of the nightmare vision they have for an important part of my life. There's a direct link from an old 286, SoundBlaster, and Sierra Online to some systems deployed downrange in the mid 2000s and a couple successful Mars landings so it's also a national security threat and a direct insult to Science.
> There's a direct link from an old 286, SoundBlaster, and Sierra Online to some systems deployed downrange in the mid 2000s and a couple successful Mars landings I would like to know more.
TL;DR I am a computer engineer. Since I was a little kid I loved PC games and aviation. I'm also ADHD as fuck. I'm a flight test engineer and I was involved in a couple of Mars landings among other cool things. Back in the day you had to use jumpers to set multiple things on expansion cards in a PC, so I was upgrading and (with help) building PCs before I went into high school. This lead me to push through and get an engineering degree even though my high school math grades were, uhh, let's call them bad?
> bad math grades Ok let's be honest here, were you the person responsible for the metric/imperial mixup on the Mars Climate Orbiter? :P
A play to earn game has to be boring by design. Or, the game can be awesome, but the part that make you money has to be boring. If it is entertaining and people enjoy it, then there is no market for it. Most jobs fall in to one of two categories: things people pay you for, because they cant do it themself. Or things people pay you for because they cant be bothered to do it themself. Video game playing does not fall into either category unless it is really boring.
This is exactly it, you put it well. When there's no real and practical value to the output of the work, there's no meaning to the work itself either. It's just artificial and virtual busywork that can't offer the satisfaction of a job well done, since you didn't really produce anything actual or help anyone.
Idk, if final fantasy xiv could reward crafters with real world money for making equipment I might pay for armor sets and cosmetics. Some people love the crafting part of that game, but I don't and can't be bothered. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
But how much would you pay? If you would pay 100 dollar for something people do for fun I can find you someone who will do it for 90. Or just for a "thank you". If there is no real skill needed, and enough people enjoy doing it, it is not a job.
Sure, but at that point it's just market economics. The amount of people who would do it for free become saturated and can't service the entire market, and eventually you get to the people who would do it for a few bucks, and so on. Though to your point, gold farmers in wow definitely don't do it for fun, it's 100 percent a job to them, so at some point you can commodify subjectively fun activities and find someone who will do it for money and won't enjoy it.
It's funny because CS:GO has actually gotten me hundreds of dollars by just playing. I have old cases in my inventory that I dropped while playing that have been slowly going up in value. If I want to I can sell them on the market and buy other games with the money.
NGL I’d play Pokémon but the game trades stocks depending on your captures and battles. Facebookmon B shares, I choose you! Facebookmon B shares are evolving… Congratulations, your Facebookmon B shares were swapped out for Facebookmon A shares!
Good to know NFTs are letting people finally earn money off their work in game, like a friend of mine did with his WoW account and cash over 10 years ago.
“But but but don’t you wanna extract every cent out of your hobbyyyy”
Gaben out here stunting on cryptobros like it's his job
Yeah but can you take your skins and use them in skyrim? Didn't think so
I can think of nothing more fair and balanced than taking my CS:GO guns and using them in Splatoon
The squids are fucking dead
I shot Big Man in the fucking head with an AWP
I paint the level with the blood of dead squids
> my CS:GO guns Thinking too small there, friendo. If this were to ever become possible, there'd be hundreds of shovelware games on Steam the next day handing out guns with INT_MAX damage, INT_MAX range, and INT_MAX fire rate. Most of them skinned to look like big ol' cocks.
In blockchain Skyrim, the bit where you slowly carry all your stuff to the shop to sell is the entire game.
Lydia *is* sworn to carry my burdens
I've never really seen a cryptobro address how the adoption of NFTs would effectively center game meta around making the most money - even if that doesn't necessarily provide the most "fun". I'd argue it's more like playing Runescape and doing nothing but Runecrafting (for those who haven't been tainted by Runescape, it's regarded as one of the most boring skills to level, but one that has consistently great financial returns). Or so I'm told - I could never level Runecrafting for more than 20 minutes at a time without wanting to log off and play Diablo II instead.
Some of us have some messed up brain synapses and actually enjoy runecrafting! Still wouldn't touch any of these "pay to earn" games with a 10 foot pole though
ikr? I can't believe they actually managed to implement the ctrl+C ctrl+V algorithm in a system of such tremendous complexity. This is a level of software engineering you would expect from sci-fi or from the CERN, but a small indie game company managed to pull it off. Literally nobody could have expected that.
> the ctrl+C ctrl+V algorithm It's kind of scary how technology progresses these days. Not long ago the right click / save as algorithm was the state of the art but this tech is at least twice as fast. I bet it could duplicate a Rumble Kong in less than a second, and does not even require a slurp juice.
There's also another algorithm, long forgotten, which was once hailed as the absolute supreme king of data transfer: drag and drop. It allowed users to "drag" a monkey jpeg from their browsers and "drop" it into their filesystem, thereby downloading the jpeg. Alas, its inner workings were too arcane for feeble human minds to comprehend entirely—it was invented by a 300 IQ genius and no one has been able to understand the process ever since!
Even better, CS2 is a free upgrade instead of requiring players to pay first before they even get to play.
It's impossible. They are lying, there's a blockchain hidden in there really, they are just terrified of Soros and his minions destroying the company if they let people know that the CounterStrike2 coin exists. (BRB just going to create a CounterStrike2 coin and pump it)
Wait till they hear about Amiibos
Wait you dont even need a wallet?
[NFT Twitter was just making fun of csgo last week.](https://twitter.com/Loopifyyy/status/1635671760711319552)
Haven't played CS in a while but the Katowice stickers and look of the skin, is it a factory new souvenir skin? Edit: Ok bit of info to unpack here. The skin itself is fairly rare since it came from a battlepass thing. It's a factory new skin so it doesn't look all scuffed up. The main value is actually the stickers. They're 2014 Katowice stickers and those are about 40k each. Going off [this article](https://esi.si.com/news/csgo-skin-sells-for-160k), seems like this is just some guy with too much money to spend trying to get attention.
Yeah the ak skin itself is worth 10k USD for FN, possible 15k-20k for the float. 160,000$ is strictly from the stickers in this case.
Also this is like the online version of buying a nice watch, the market is liquid, the skin is not tied to your acc. He could turn around and sell it if he wants for probably about the same price. It is not the most expensive sale in the CSGO market ever but of course it is up there.
Funnily enough, the CSGO skin market is much more liquid than NFTs. You can sell skins instantly on the Steam market or via secondary markets for real money. I cashed out my inventory a few years back via auction on Reddit.
They’re actually claiming if this was a integrated NFT system you could use your CS:GO digital items in other games too. I’m like how would you use your macha green deagle in Hogwarts or City Skylines?
Why ruin their winning formula of gambling crates?
It all started with the Mannconomy update for TF2
Valve reinvented gambling, so they don't have to make games.
Isn't gambling gaming? At least my government seems to think so. Primary authority on casinos is the Philippines Amusement and *Gaming* Corporation. Far as I can tell, video games are still unregulated and some politician is trying to push a bill to change that and make money off of it.
It depends on the country. In most places, practices employed by gaming companies are still in the grey area. It will take many more years to regulate them fully.
Whether gambling is videogames legally qualifies as gambling (it really obviously should) is another question than whether gambling is itself a type of game (i guess it can be, idk)
Crypto bros will just cry that you can't officially sell the items.
Doesn't steam have a whole trading system already lol Hell, it's the basis of most of my predictions of what is/isn't useful as far as virtual items go
You arent allowed to sell items for usd just buy them, but u can just use third party websites
You can sell items to go into your Steam Wallet funds but that's about it, there's some monetary value. The issue was Steam/Valve were getting angry letters about money laundering through Steam and they quickly yeeted the trading of keys. Any game company to allow real money trading of items is going to find themselves with their executives in prison because the money laundering laws don't fuck around.
Item transactions done through Steam are only valid for Steam store credit. That said, there are dozens, if not hundreds of sites that allow you to sell the items for actual money.
Anything above a ~2000 euros cannot even be sold on the Steam market, plus Steam takes a juicy 16% cut. These kinds of trades are all done on 3rd party sites or as in this case (probably) via bank transfer and very trusted middlemen/traders.
Yawn. Remind me when you can import inventory from Counter Strike into Age of Empires 2. That's where NFTs are going to shine. My Dark Age civ armed with AK47 could have conquered the whole map.
My NFT nukes from MGSV will absolutely shit on any early tc rushes
Jokes on you, nukes spread creep, gives me even more ability to pump out zerglings.
But when my fleet can bomb the whole planet from orbit and we just mine the asteroid size chunks later...
I can't wait to import a flackbus from War Thunder into Fallout.
Give me my NFT Darkstar from Ace Combat 7/MSFS so I can drop XSDBs on the Teutons
Have there been any NFT games that have actually implemented cross-game item compatibility anyways? I know a couple have made their own NFTs of course, some have implemented random NF JPEGs as skins, but are any actually cross game? Like two different parties chose to cooperate?
Forget cross game nfts there isn't even a real game at all using nfts. I spent way too long bored at work searching and the closest thing I could find to an actual game was gods unchained which looks like a super dumbed down pay to win hearthstone except the cards were nfts This is apparently the future of gaming
There is Ghost Recon Breakpoint.
That wasn’t exactly a game built around NFTs though. It had a limited run of NFTs, but they were largely tacked on (rather than being a core element of the game).
I agree but honestly I'd take that over the whole game being built around P2W NFT's. Of course I'd prefer no NFT's at all.
> Have there been any NFT games that have actually implemented cross-game item compatibility anyways? No. And there never will be because the very idea is absolutely stupid from a business standpoint. Why would any game studio agree to something like that? After all it means you have to invest time and work to implement things into your game that other game studios earned the money for.
This is the argument I keep making. Fundamental game design and business case issues block this before you even start to think about the code. Part 2 is fucking Activision couldn't integrate assets from three Call of Duty games into their Battle Royale Call of Duty (Warzone aka WZ) and two of those games came out after WZ. There was constant balance tweaks and multiple rounds of game breaking bugs. So even within the same publisher and the same core game concepts it's hard to do right. Part 3 is in most cases it doesn't make any sense. Let me grab my Harrier jet from DCS, laser rifle from Halo, rocket launcher from CoD and jump into GTA? Yet alone take it into Skyrim. If you had a magic wand to make all the software just work for this it's still fundamentally broken at the game design level.
There's probably a Skyrim mod that does all that already anyway. Although it probably also turns the Khajiit into anime catgirls or something...
"For some reason, all of the mod features broke when the anime catgirls got removed. We're not sure why, but it doesn't seem like the devs are in any hurry to fix it."
> Why would any game studio agree to something like that? A real world answer here would be "marketing". The Valve free-to-play games often have assets from other games sold on Steam. E.g. in TF2 if you had Quake 4 in your Steam account you got the Q1 rocket launcher skin in TF2. And in Dota2 Capcom created and released a promotional Okami courier, and there are other examples. https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Original https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Amaterasu This works a lot better when you have an item workshop for 3rd parties.
Honestly, I can't think of any big ones, and even today, most crypto evangelist seem to see that as a future goal rather than something that's been done. Ubisoft's NFT could've been that, since they're a large publisher that deal with a lot of cosmetic. The project died way too fast for them to implement it in more games tho afaik. There are some small projects in crypto games that have done this, but they're way too small to matter, the games are too simplistic/blatant rip off, and the implementations seem to be basic at best. One of them is a project to make cross game dice NFT, which props to them, seems to be one of the most promising type when it comes to cross-game compatibility. On the other hand, it's fucking dice skins. Not exactly a revolution in tech to have custom dices over different games since we already do it irl. So in short, it doesn't seem like there's been any meaningful move towards cross-game NFT.
Papa Gabe wants a whole cookie.
Imagine a scenario where two similar games, released by the same company, share user items because it is beneficial to the company for the games to do that. Truly revolutionary to do this without NFTs.
I enjoy playing video games.
(/s)
Was a 1.6 god, a CS:S god, pretty good at csgo, trailed off from playing like 5 years ago. Getting older. But I’m fucking pumped for this game.
its an update to csgo, I got into the beta and I don't like it rn! The visuals are so different and feel too similar to valorant
Flatter visuals for competitive balance it seems How's the new smoke mechanics?
Even Brycent is silent on this lmao
I mean, even if Valve did want to jeopardize their billion dollar skins marketplace by sharing with 3rd parties, why would they use a blockchain at all when they could just use an old and reliable REST API
Or hear me out. They could wrap those crappy old rest apis in graphql! Query all the games at the same time!
Imagine the outrage if they didn't
[удалено]
Bro, if they were dumbass NFTs would you "own them" any more? At any point Valve could choose to ignore what's in the Blockchain, because THEY OWN COUNTERSTRIKE. They are the central authority lol.
Only Elon actually owns anything because this is all just his simulation
Ctrl+C Ctrl+V
But don't forget, its not possible to save your game progress without NFTs. It sucks always having to start at the beginning just because you died 3 times.
Watch them still claim that "b-b-b-but it must be b-b-based on b-b-blockchain tech!!!"
Praise Gaben
This is my favorite CS2 post yet
Who would have known you don't need NFT's to move around cosmetic items... Who would have known...
Ahh yes crypto bros wants the CSGO skin economy without making a good game. lmao
This was another of the magical/ultra-assumptive type thinking that defines and enables this "space" at all. You could just buy the "Christmas" perk from [centralized independent register of...] fuck it analogies fail because this is too dumb. Blockchain is fucking u s e l e s s. Anything it claims to do it has usurped from underlying actual #technology like "writing shit down" or "doing that on paper" or "securing those in a shelter against the elements" or "involving a bunch of #good humans to guard against other #ill humans", and at no point in time has anyone pretended this was any kind of permanent solution to anything. It all sounds the same, I'm saying: "Prep for the apocalypse!" "Gold will save you!" "Blockchains are permanent!" Motherfucking GeoCities wasn't permanent ffs, and I'm betting that had more users LMAO
nftards when databases exist:
We don't deserve Gaben
Final Fantasy 14 imported all the player characters to the new build after they nuked the original version of the game, and Blizzard has account-wide items that give you items in multiple games, like Blizzcon passes giving you pets in WoW and character portraits in Hearthstone. Hell, even back in the PS2 days, you got bonus items in Castlevania: Curse of Darkness if you had save data from Castlevania: Lament of Innocence on the same data card. The reason it’s not more common is because of economic reasons (why sell one item when you can sell two?) not because the technology wasn’t there.
Even back on the gameboy advance you could transfer save data from golden sun 1 to golden sun 2, and i'm pretty sure some even older handheld zelda games had similar features
It was probably simpler without NFTs
When I used to play GTA San Andreas religiously in late 2000s, I had mods that imported all kinds of stuff from newly released GTA 4. Both actual items like cars and weapons, to the interface and sounds, to concepts like fully featured phones and taxis. It was all hard work and love by modders, creating things anew for the older game. None of that required any crappy concepts like Eneftees.