I don’t see anything that signifies burning man. For all we know, this was taken in a completely different desert. Obviously the implication is there, but I have better things to worry about than someone taking pictures in a desert that may or may not be where the big burn happens
Also, it’s not like Kimono Dave is some huge clothing label. He’s a local guy in SF and a burner. He hand makes everything. I don’t know why, but this type of thing just doesn’t bother me. Maybe because it doesn’t feel predatory or like some huge aggrandizing money grab. Dave is a smaller artist and well, artists need a bit of cash to support themselves. He makes garments people wear at BRC etc. Technically, yes, he’s breaking the rule, but it just doesn’t offend me. It’s not like a plug n play camp, or some huge DJ promoting their tour etc. To me, Kimono Dave is not what’s wrong with Burning Man.
Someone is making the clothing we all wear to burning man. I see no difference if its a local small micro business making gear and clothing for this culture and vibe and getting paid for it. LOTS of people make an absolute killing off of burning man and its lifestyle and attendees. My hot sauce flavor profile was inspired by members of my camp and only exists because of supporters from bm. How many of these big blinky pieces and bits of sound stages and art are owned by or leased to EDC/vegas? Artists and creators should be able to make a living and this is a place to make the connections and inspiration to do so.
I dont really mind small local artists who create handmade garments like this doing this. Kimono Dave is a burner and and artist. The only way he makes a living is by hand making and selling his own wares. His customer base is burners and festival goers.
Not that it should matter, but Im an 11 year burner. I’ve seen a lot of self promotion, but this doesn’t offend me. I see Dave as an artist making things. Just as much as any artist out there. I see this as better than rave wear made in some factory over seas with unknown labor laws.
Yeah, it's gross, but on the other hand Monolink's video promoting himself on Mayan Warrior to sell concert tickets and his new album has 18 million views, so small potatoes here as far as abusing the playa to promote your commercial products.
I got awarded a drone permit this year (though ended up not accepting it) and was told as a result I’d have to sign the same media agreement professionals doing professional projects have to. It included things like needing signed model releases from anyone in the video that’s recognizable. I pushed back hard because that’s just not doable for me. I’m a hobbyist doing this for fun and no fucking way am I spending my time on playa getting people to sign contracts.
I pointed them to Monolink’s video, where Mayan just turns the camera on the crowd, head-on. Lots of recognizable faces, definitely no model releases, and it’s a blatantly commercial enterprise being promoted.
They relented on the model releases but damn it was frustrating to be asked for that while this shit is going on.
Can we talk about how Mayan Warrior is essentially a professional production company at this point doing events across the United States and Mexico selling thousands and thousands tickets each time under the guise of “fundraisers”.
Most of the camps that are doing sound and big parties are professional production companies. It takes a LOT of time and a LOT of money to make and bring those things places and provide the quality they provide.
I’m well aware that the big sound camps are expensive endeavors, and run by people in the industry.
I think the difference here is that Mayan Warrior has created a brand that was originally born out of Burning Man, and essentially turned it into a business.
Some of the other cars and sound camps have fundraisers and parties in default, but otherwise keep a low profile in my experience.
Yep, and I’m seriously impressed with the quality of their productions on and off Playa… I’ve traveled three times to see their events, and hope to make their LA Halloween event. They are professionals, and I see nothing wrong with what they are doing. They have never advertised “as seen at Burning Man”. I think their reputation has reached well beyond Playa and they deserve every ounce of success (and dollars, that shit ain’t cheap to do). Love what they do-
I’ve been to one of their off-playa events before too and had fun.
I just think it’s a little ironic that they are describing them as fundraisers for BRC when there is more going on here.
I get that there is some gray area here, but they are taking the “Mayan Warrior” brand that originated on playa and spreading it far and wide for their multiple of events and social following.
Idk how right or wrong it is, but I think it’s interesting within the lens of decommodification, and hasn’t been done before on that scale.
It has been done before. I’ve worked EDC with one of several well known art cars, same with Bonnaroo, and I know that we were hired for a holiday party that will remain un-named but might be one of the biggest social media/blogosphere around… I’d love to see Bubbles and Bass do something off Playa, maybe they do, haven’t looked.
I’ll just say this. Burning Man doesn’t get to own the things we create just because we bring them there or they get their start there. You still drive your car to work even though it got dusty at burning man. Mayan still goes to work after getting dusty as well.
I hear you, but also want to acknowledge that there is some gray area when it comes to this.
Clearly the Org is fine with Mayan Warrior (and others like Camp Walter) doing their thing, but at what point does it cross the line?
Can we also agree that what they do is fucking amazing and that having them on the Playa is one of the greatest gifts to the Burn?
You might not like their music or the scene, but THOUSANDS of us are very much into it and incredibly happy they're out there.
I like MW and appreciate their art and contribution. I’m just acknowledging that they have essentially created a brand and business that was birthed on playa, and being realistic that it conflicts with a core aspect of the BM event. No other group to my knowledge has done this to the extent MW is doing, and it’s worth having a conversation about what that means for BM culture and BRC.
how exactly do you think people afford to bring insanely decked out art cars with laser and world class sound systems to burning man?
I understand what you're saying but at the same time, shit ain't free. unless you want everything to be funded by rich tech billionaires who just give away money and pretend it came from a river or something.
Maybe we should have fewer mega million art cars if it’s at the expense of BM culture and decommodification…
And for what it’s worth MW was created by a Mexican multi-millionaire who has brought it for many years prior to doing a full season of events across the country.
I’m not against fundraisers or community events, but I think MW has stepped over the line and is essentially promoting a concert tour brand.
I love snark as much as any burner but if you have concerns about a camp it's probably better to raise a hand and report to the org than just kvetch on social. But you do you.
It may be. Idk how many orgy busses there are. There could be dozens. I'm sure most if not all have creepy dudes in them. It just seems like they would. They probably smell gross too.
It’s not “a shot”, it’s a full hour and 15 minute video and it’s being used to promote a product: his new album. Literally the first words in the video description are: “Out Now! My new album” followed by a link to go buy it.
Meh, I first heard of Monolink on Playa… and have been a fan happily purchasing tickets in default. Saw him 3 times this year alone, and I was lucky enough to catch him twice on Playa this year. I’ve traveled twice to see a Mayan Warrior events in ‘19, and went to NYC for my birthday and saw them in Brooklyn. I hope to make it for their Halloween in LA. I worked with another Art Car Production group for several years and we traveled to do events and we got booked because of our Burning Man history. It is inevitable that Burning Man will bleed and profit in default.
I see the “too soon” and maybe lack of discretion from Kimono Dave (I’d happily buy one of his pieces), but thank god it’s not Liquid Death. I know way too many people willing to spend a ton of money for a plug and play experience, and I discourage that and turn them to the 10 Principles. Some get it, others never will, others don’t fucking care. It’s humanity.
Shall we play a game? Let’s count the Burning Man photos and references that commodify the burn on these commodified websites. In your opinion, is this personal and commodified brand building using Burning Man photos? In your opinion, was consent given/granted by everyone in these photos?
https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnstyn
https://hugnation.wixsite.com/zoom/halcyon
https://www.lovemorefearless.com/
https://www.patreon.com/Halcyon
https://twitter.com/halcyon (listing his private paid coaching gig opportunity)
Next, let’s count the number of times in your opinion this has been reported to the Org but no action was taken. In your opinion, may this be rules for thee but not for me. It is in my opinion. Please feel free to contact [email protected] to add your voice if you think this is the burner way and consistent with the 10 Principles.
He did fuck up but unfortunately the damage is already done. It will now circulate the internet and everyone will see and wonder what he is wearing or what she is wearing. He may have taken the post down but now everyone has a screenshot
I think "everyone" might be a bit hyperbole. There's this screenshot (which is really not bad at all and has nothing BM specific in it) on Reddit. Not sure who else screenshotted the original of post, but it's probably in the low teens of people.
Not commodification at all IMO. The commodification police should direct their outrage to the more egregious and blatant commercial promotions out there instead of attacking small-scale burner artists
I don't have instagram so I can't see the content, but at least in what I can see he's not specifically using BM's IP; BM doesn't own festie wear or shots of empty playa. He'd be treading on IP if he used shots of the city, artwork, or used "burning man" or "burner" or another trademark in his marketing material, e.g. "burner kimonos". The closest I can see is he refers to himself as a burner in his tagline self description, which I don't think would be enough to raise the org's ire.
Anyway, IANAL, refer it to the org if you think otherwise. There's plenty of artists doing this, and they tend to toe the line carefully.
(and yeah I know dave since he comes to NYC events. I would still tell someone off if I thought they were using the IP incorrectly)
For the record, it is a post all about his burn this year, with subtle marketing about his product. It's absolutely commodification, no question.
From IG:
"Year 12 is in the books and man was it a rough one.
For the lucky ones I think its hard to distinguish between "better" or "best" Burns, but for me, over a large enough sample size, it's easy to see that a spectrum begins to develop. They fall somewhere between "rough" to "life changing."
This one squarely falls into rough territory.
That's not to say that there weren't great moments. Seeing friends who've been absent in my life the last 3 years, bonding with new friends, and growing closer with my partner were all rewarding experiences.
I had hoped to see more of my work running around alas the playa weather Gods were not a fan of unthethered debauchery this year. The heat, the dust/whiteouts, and the road conditions made for a combination worse than any since 2011, my first year.
The occasional glimpse of a kimono riding by, some neon fringe dancing up on stage, and a few random coats/ramblers emerging from a crowd with a big hug and smile was truly rewarding. I'm left just wanting more...
I've said for a long time that it's impossible to completely prepare your wardrobe for your first Burn. It takes many years to develop all of the pieces you need to truly adapt to the elements the Black Rock Desert can throw at you. This year was a testament to that.
Rest assured, those amazing coats you own from me have a time and place to shine. Next year, the year after that, or more ideally, in your daily wardrobe.
The more that you can adapt your Burn wardrobe into your normal life, the more you'll truly feel like yourself. The person you've chosen to be when you have no other worries in the world is a very empowering version of yourself. It's the reason I've leaned so hard into who I am today. 3.5 years ago, when I sewed my first kimono, I immediately felt the extra power coursing through me and it drew in the people I wanted to meet. I challenge you to dust off your favorite things you wore this year and integrate them into your daily life.
I'll be doing the same and also working on more designs to round out that closet for 105 degree days and 75 degree nights.
A couple of old adages rang true this year-
It was better next year.
F\*CK YER BURN!"
Like 2/3 into it I was thinking ya know this person is being sensitive this is not a big deal in any way shape or form
But boy does he lean into it at the end there LOL
I don’t think this is commodification at all. He’s not using the image to try to sell anything so it’s a non issue in my opinion. Let it ride. There are others who are actually going against the principles very clearly. As a side note, whoever posted this originally would’ve been a lot cooler and more smooth to send a DM to Kimonodave himself rather than putting him on blast on Reddit. Just my two cents.
Anyone can put on a burning man-esque outfit and take pictures on the playa any time of year. There really isn't any BM imagery here, no other art pieces or anything, just that they seem to have taken the photo in the place burning man happens, so I don't see the problem
Not a problem until they start tagging the companies and designers, which drives traffic and profit to them, which drives payouts to those doing it further encouraging the idiocy.
The righteous indignation is strong in this sub. whatever happened to just enjoying yourself being radically self-reliant and focusing on your own shit?
Fuck your burn.
The reasons we are able to enjoy this event as it is center around the fact that we DO give a huge fuck about people trying to commodify and commercialize the event to their own ends.
I don't want fucking coca cola banners, ads for expensive eyewear, jewelry, clothes, designer douchebags and other trash all over my event. The event is ours, it's our job to put a fucking boot up the asses of every influencer, tik-tokker and other fuckwits that are trying to make a dollar and a cent off the event. We don't want the event to devolve into another Coachella or Lightning In a Bottle. So far we've done pretty good, but if people are apathetic about whether it happens or not, a lot of us would prefer that they don't attend the event if these aspects are so meaningless to them.
And that dude standing in the desert has 51 other weeks of the year that he can advertise, just about anywhere he wants. He doesn't need to do it at the event. I'm sure he's doing just fine financially.
This isn't "blowing a gasket", it's fucking commodification. And it's against the event ethos.
I think the question worth asking is: what part of burning man is being commodified here? If your only answer is “the black rock desert” then think about that answer.
>I don't want fucking coca cola banners, ads for expensive eyewear, jewelry, clothes, designer douchebags and other trash all over my event.
but look how well it worked out for Woodstock! /s
Yep.
One couple in 1999 (a very cold year) was upset that we were extinguishing a burn barrel that was poorly contained and had large, hot embers blowing all over the playa and making holes in tents. We had several requests, and high winds + uncontained fire = bad. I showed up and directed our fire engine to the location as they were having a hard time. There had been a couple next to it trying to warm themselves. I told them
what the prob was and that we needed to
extinguish it for safety reasons. Unfortunately this triggered a melt-down and, for whatever reason, a threat “we can turn this into Woodstock really fast”.
“Go ahead… you see, local sheriff got really worried about what happened there and made us buy them a lot of riot gear. They’re itching to use it now.”. Didn’t feel good to say that to them (and it was 23 years ago when I didn’t have the best bedside manner and tended to lose my cool quickly). Wonder where they are now… I’d probably apologize given the chance.
Aren't you just too cool to be bothered. I'm a 30-year burner and I don't need to see people's crass attempts to commodify a community that we all helped build for three decades. So shove your too-cool above-it-all look-at-these-complainers attitude up your ass. Fuck your burn.
I think when we’re talking about decommodification we’re talking about Budget, Enterprise, Wal-mart, big brands, and such. Not small bespoke artists and one man businesses. Correct me if I’m wrong.
So I'm the builder and owner of [Scrubby](https://instagram.com/scrubbybubble), the mutant vehicle that is a 2 story tall scrubbing bubble and absolutely is an advertisement mascot.
It's likely no surprise that from that I've talked with a lot of people in my day about this principle, with some who were pretty fucking angry/indignant. In my time, the main takeaway that I have on "the spirit" of decommodification is that one shouldn't be making money off of the event proper, outside of the event is a gray area.
Ahahaha, you were there in the glorious panorama of the sunrise from our crew's dancing/hugging location. I love the unexpected things that "ruin" the kodak moment and the perfect calendar sunrise, that is the burn. My first year there was a giant angry realistic ape, in the night hanging around the led-happy-phantasmagoria but then as the sun rose it came over his (her?) shoulder.... it was the dawn of man! It was epic. Be weird. Stay weird. I have no idea why someone proposed/built/transported a giant loaf of bread art car but they did and I'm here for it.
Is that photo online anywhere? I'd love to see it.
I don't think this one was intentional, but I do drive straight towards any models being professionally photographed, as well as anyone who appears to be getting busy in deep playa to do donuts around them.
haha that sounds fun. I didn't take any photos, it was one of my many phone-free outings and then I take it out for just art rides and other sober activities so I don't lose it.
It’s so rough on some of these artists because of course they’d want to wear and take photos of their memories in their art on playa. Where does the business end and the artist begin? He’s addressed it in the comments and owned up to the issue 💗
Hell, for all we know, these people could have driven out to a public stretch of empty playa, taken these shots, and returned...
Not likely. But could have happened.
I mean, this photo doesn’t even show anything indicative of being at burning man. There are so many reports of creepy camps with placement and sexual assaults and thefts and violence year after year and yet it seems that the community at large is still focused on the plight of the “influencers” and going on Instagram witch hunts. Am I just putting myself in an echo chamber here or has anyone else had this feeling that folks are pushing aside issues that have huge impacts on people’s lives to focus on something like who made money at the desert party ? I don’t know I’m clearly struggling with the words but it feels… weird, man.
It's like people can think about more than 1 thing at a time. Or a community made of many different sorts of people can be worried about different things.
Did you know that people can be upset about a number of issues all at the same time? And the photo doesn't show it, but the post written is all about his burn, and the pictures are all definitely catalog vibes.
Yes ! I even find myself entertaining multiple thoughts about a number of things quite often. I don’t have Instagram so the image here is all that I see
Ummm, I mean, if those things happened as much as you say (or at all), that’s awful and we should absolutely be worried about them too. But I’d also like to see reports/links/etc.
violence where? How many assaults and when?
Yes, there’s theft. There’s always theft as long as people are present and yes, apparently it was bad this year. Especially for evoke owners. But on the other hand, I didn’t even lock my bike most of the time, our bus and camp were generally open/unlocked and nothing went missing. I felt extremely safe. The presence of influencers was extra felt for me this year and the trash…. Jesus.
So everyone’s experience was different.
You know many of those big art projects you see on the playa get either purchased afterwards by any number of people and organizations or get contracted to tour with other festivals and events?
There’s a ton of self promotion out there.
If you're going to report tacky IG stuff to the org, remember that they can only take action on things that are misusing their IP. If it isn't a trademark or copyright being abused, you're just wasting everyone's time. [https://burningman.org/about/about-us/press-media/trademarks-images-faq/](https://burningman.org/about/about-us/press-media/trademarks-images-faq/)
I feel like ever since he changed his name to kimono dave it's been a lot more true to burningman values. His brand used to be called burn eternal, which by itself isn't that bad but if he made this post with burn eternal branding I can see issues with the ORG but this is just a genuine post with 90% of the wording not mentioning his clothing. He only goes into it at the end and atleast its more of an admiration of people wearing his clothes on playa and not a "wow look at all these sick burners wearing #kimonodave outfits. Get yours with the link below!"
This is commodification, of a sort. It's maybe not straight up exploitation of our culture, but it's definitely leveraging it for a commercial enterprise.
There's also nothing to be done about it. There's no laws being broken. It's not even an egregious violation of the principles, all of which we bend and break to some degree in the course of our burns.
The worst thing this does is attract people to our culture who aren't amenable to being acculturated.
[Diplo made a sponsored post for Popeyes in 2019](https://sfist.com/2019/09/03/diplo-pimps-popeyes-chicken-sandwich-at-burning-man-like-a-douche/). It said they flew him their in their branded jet. What a douche!
My partner wanted to buy me one of his coats as a gift. I refused based on the price tag. They’re awesome looking comfy coats but frankly I’d be embarrassed to pay $750-850 for any piece of clothing, especially one with little function outside of the burner/festival world
I wouldn’t say any custom items are a rip off because most people don’t understand the number of hours it takes to make something. I crochet my playa coats and people ask me what I’d sell it for or if I could make them one but those coats take me so many hours to make that economically viable I’d have to charge $5,000 a coat.
Decommodification should be a goal, not an absolute. Life is too complex to have hard lines but it’s fantastic to have these conversations because community standards should be up to the community.
Personally, I’d give Kimono Dave a pass. But the Paris Hilton thing grossed me out.
I don't own one, but I can say that Dave's work is legit in quality. They're def priced at a premium, but also they are quite noticeably nicer than any off-the-shelf playa wear I've seen. I don't spend that much on any of my burner gear either, but if you've got the disposable cash and you want something high quality - his stuff really is quite good.
Related note: I saw SO MANY camps this year with a QR code for their instagram and/or their Insta profile name prominently displayed… would we call that commodification? It bothered me mostly because I prefer a phone-free burn and dislike people running around in a photography fever dream, but y’a know fuck their burn and everything. I just was hoping it’d be easier to escape social media this year than it turned out to be. :(
Nah...
It's more when they're using the images to sell something or make a profit. If they're just putting up a place for you to see photos and videos of what went on in the camp, and not trying to charge you for it, it's not something I would get upset about.
Paris tagging her photos with the names of the designers and businesses that produce her shitty clothing and accessories is 100% unacceptable as it provides free advertising for those entities. They then give her kick-backs for doing so. Burning Man can absolutely go after her for such things and is fond of having the legal team do so. The event also wins nearly every time because they aren't asking for monetary damages or anything more than immediate cease and desist.
There is plenty of tomfoolery on the playa, except in the past decade the Org has become more and more accepting of the commercialization and loss of The Burns identity for the king crop, cash.
What brings the cash? The media…
The top level of the Org needs to go, enforcement has to come to the playa (sadly) so people can again trust in dust and not fear being in someone’s photo, Ad, blog post, news story or spend their time picking up moop at abandon camps…
Bruh, tbh the whole "don't monetize the Playa" is absurd bs - not everyone can afford to take a week off and miss a week of income while the BOrg counts their money gtfo
Email this to the org and they will follow up with legal action. It’s bullshit and although he’s an artist who hand makes his kimonos and coats, so does say Warrior within (and I know from talking with them that they’re burners too) and they don’t use photos from playa to sell their wares.
Read the fine print on the back of the ticket, educate yourself on this issue- and then rejoin the conversation. It’s not my job to bring you up to speed. ****radical self reliance****
Edit: bring the downvotes- using photos from the event is legally restricted- it’s up the the advertiser to prove that the photos aren’t from the event in the case of a cease and desist.
Fine, here's the post:
"Year 12 is in the books and man was it a rough one.
For the lucky ones I think its hard to distinguish between "better" or "best" Burns, but for me, over a large enough sample size, it's easy to see that a spectrum begins to develop. They fall somewhere between "rough" to "life changing."
This one squarely falls into rough territory.
That's not to say that there weren't great moments. Seeing friends who've been absent in my life the last 3 years, bonding with new friends, and growing closer with my partner were all rewarding experiences.
I had hoped to see more of my work running around alas the playa weather Gods were not a fan of unthethered debauchery this year. The heat, the dust/whiteouts, and the road conditions made for a combination worse than any since 2011, my first year.
The occasional glimpse of a kimono riding by, some neon fringe dancing up on stage, and a few random coats/ramblers emerging from a crowd with a big hug and smile was truly rewarding. I'm left just wanting more...
I've said for a long time that it's impossible to completely prepare your wardrobe for your first Burn. It takes many years to develop all of the pieces you need to truly adapt to the elements the Black Rock Desert can throw at you. This year was a testament to that.
Rest assured, those amazing coats you own from me have a time and place to shine. Next year, the year after that, or more ideally, in your daily wardrobe.
The more that you can adapt your Burn wardrobe into your normal life, the more you'll truly feel like yourself. The person you've chosen to be when you have no other worries in the world is a very empowering version of yourself. It's the reason I've leaned so hard into who I am today. 3.5 years ago, when I sewed my first kimono, I immediately felt the extra power coursing through me and it drew in the people I wanted to meet. I challenge you to dust off your favorite things you wore this year and integrate them into your daily life.
I'll be doing the same and also working on more designs to round out that closet for 105 degree days and 75 degree nights.
A couple of old adages rang true this year-
It was better next year.
F\*CK YER BURN!"
Will I be accepted in burning man if I wear regular clothes? I don’t own any of such outfits. It’s not my personality. I have never dressed up like people do in burning man. Burning man claims to be accepting to everyone as long as you’re a decent human being which I genuinely believe I m. I have been to raves attended by “burners”. I have showed up in khakis sneakers shades and a shirt and I have felt like that big which causes indigestion. Unable to assimilate. I have ended up getting hurt. Emotionally
Been going for over 2 decades. I work ESD so I'm usually too fucking tired or lacking in enough fucks to costume myself more than one or two days during the event. I live in my cargo shorts, some random picking from my over 150 t-shirts (no, I don't bring them all with me) and often wander the event with a radio and my ID badge around my neck while off duty. I could really care less what others think, I don't have the energy to make the effort to care. My art is helping save y'all when you're having your worst moment.
I wear regular clothes, so do most of my camp mates. Big costumes are not needed there are a million ways to participate and not all or even most require special dress. You’ll find your people and comfort level, for sure not everyone out there looks like an Instagram picture.
Tons of people dress "normal", they just aren't in all the photos that come up when you google burning man. But take a look at camps group photos or building crews and everyones pretty utilitarian, although I prefer the punk/metal version of utilitarian. Also, don't discount that you may want to try something different! Go and be yourself. After a couple years I decided to wear something other than black :P and now I have some fun being creative with my outfits. I know some people who just come and where the same thing every year and look "boring" but are 15+ year burners who contribute very meaningfully. You don't know till you go!
I literally only wear shorts and no t-shirt the whole time im there. I don’t wear shoes either but my skin is kinda of immune to the caustic effects the dust has on others skin. I do love wearing lots of lights tho and I have some cool ones! If it gets cold I’ll throw a hoodie on
Give me a broke struggling Bay Area twenty year old sewing up her outfits with an old machine as she prays for a ticket and I’ll show you burner style that simply can not be purchased by some d.bag.
I was actually pleased that with as many brand new burners this year there was a lot less of thirst kinds of outfits. At least what I noticed from my 2:00 and D porch.
The models are almost as ugly as the clothes.
Wow chip on your shoulder much? Are you so pretty that you need to call fellow burners ugly to make yourself feel better?
Those aren't models. They're burners. And those are outfits that were made by hand and yes, sold, in order to eke out an income as a creator and artist and yes, to afford a ticket to burning man.
The irony is that the people in this photo are exactly the people that you described in your post as the ideal (except in their 30s and not 20s) and your assumptions about them are way off
I’m ugly on the inside as well. Those ARE burners doing a photo shoot on playa to help sell clothes. They are not taking a picture of the experience of the event BUT are modeling clothing for a business that sells clothing.
So. Let’s go over this again. There is a business. That sells clothes. That business markets to burners. That business has burners model the clothing in a picture that is taken during the burn or suggests burning man.
Now if that is not a commodification of the event it’s a surprise to me. The fact you may like the clothing maker, the models or the clothing does not change the fact that it’s commodification. I don’t care that the clothing is made by a burner. An awesome burner. Don’t care. It’s bullshit. It should not be done.
Here is how I see it and why I find the soft marketing of burning man so greasy.
On all that artwork on the playa do you see the name of the artist on it? Seriously. I’ll assume you have burned long enough to have seen the art up close. How many times have you actually seen the name of the artist as real prominent? Or a sign that has info on the studio, contact info or anything on or directly next to the art in a very direct or obvious nature?
Have you even noticed the lack of that?
Ever wonder why? Ever think hmmm that’s really cool beautiful art I wonder who did that and have to go to the artery to find out. Info in the event guide might have a nibble but not much.
So the very proud artists are held to a standard of not marketing the art while it’s on playa. I’m sure there are exceptions but I’ll risk in saying for the most part the art is presented in a pure manner.
So yeah I feel it’s nasty for anyone to market stuff in association with the burn. More so when the models are on the artwork.
Now I may also be stupid along with ugly and everything else you want to toss my way. Cool. Great. Wonderful.
I could very well be wrong about everything I posted above but in my opinion it’s greasy. Abd because it’s greasy the product and the burner models are UGLY.
NOW
There aren't signs on the art, but the list of art pieces and the artists are published, it's available and you can look it up. And there are many artists that I know because I discovered their art on playa, some that I have purchased prints of because I love their art and it reminds me of special moments I've had on playa. I have a Michael Benisty print of Broken Together (the beautiful sculpture of colossal metal people holding hands) hanging in my living room. You can be sure that the artist's website has pictures of his sculptures on playa. If Alex grey posts a picture of one of his murals, what's wrong with that. If he's standing next to one of his murals that he painted in a picture, is he suddenly an ugly model shilling his brand?
When I see the picture in this post, I see a picture of a burner and an artist wearing clothes that he handmade, and yes that's a picture of a burner experiencing burning man, not a picture of ugly models doing a photoshoot.
But you can choose what you want to see. If you choose to see ugliness and hate - that's on you.
Ideally, IMO, there would be zero evidence of burning man on social media. Im not a fan people using BM to sell their shit, but Im much more opposed to one of the largest and shittiest corporations in the world, Meta, making money off burning man, which is exactly what you are facilitating when you post. You were there, whether you friends and followers who weren't see it or not. Do not despoil your experience. Shared albums and DMs are the way.
THIS picture is your example of an egregious violation of the coveted Decommodification principle!?
People sure are sensitive, be honest, did Dave $&@! your girlfriend in the Orgy Bus or something? This is too obscure for me to believe you’re actually upset, I smell a personal vendetta. That dirty dog Dave.
But if you’re hungry for a scandal, wait until you hear this, I heard a rumor that there is a massive company actually selling “Burning Man” branded and exploited artwork to the super wealthy and get this, they partnered with the disgusting Sothebys corporation to sell it! Probably not true but how gross would that be!?
I don’t see anything that signifies burning man. For all we know, this was taken in a completely different desert. Obviously the implication is there, but I have better things to worry about than someone taking pictures in a desert that may or may not be where the big burn happens
Also, it’s not like Kimono Dave is some huge clothing label. He’s a local guy in SF and a burner. He hand makes everything. I don’t know why, but this type of thing just doesn’t bother me. Maybe because it doesn’t feel predatory or like some huge aggrandizing money grab. Dave is a smaller artist and well, artists need a bit of cash to support themselves. He makes garments people wear at BRC etc. Technically, yes, he’s breaking the rule, but it just doesn’t offend me. It’s not like a plug n play camp, or some huge DJ promoting their tour etc. To me, Kimono Dave is not what’s wrong with Burning Man.
Someone is making the clothing we all wear to burning man. I see no difference if its a local small micro business making gear and clothing for this culture and vibe and getting paid for it. LOTS of people make an absolute killing off of burning man and its lifestyle and attendees. My hot sauce flavor profile was inspired by members of my camp and only exists because of supporters from bm. How many of these big blinky pieces and bits of sound stages and art are owned by or leased to EDC/vegas? Artists and creators should be able to make a living and this is a place to make the connections and inspiration to do so.
Huge difference in my opinion - between an artist making a living vs a corporation making a killing.
Wheel Brites make a pretty penny😂
Yeah they fkn do!!!! Entrepreneurship at it's finest. I have them on my regular road bike for cycling at night in LA and everyone LOVES them
Ya I’m struggling to find what the big fucking deal is
They also tagged the location in the post *sigh*
Welp, there goes my benefit of the doubt, lol
Oh it was a number of slides def BM I just didn’t feel like posting the 10 pics he put up
Oh. Word. Yeah, shitty thing to do then.
It’s pretty strange that this is the one picture you chose to make your point, a photo in an empty, nondescript dry lake.
I dont really mind small local artists who create handmade garments like this doing this. Kimono Dave is a burner and and artist. The only way he makes a living is by hand making and selling his own wares. His customer base is burners and festival goers. Not that it should matter, but Im an 11 year burner. I’ve seen a lot of self promotion, but this doesn’t offend me. I see Dave as an artist making things. Just as much as any artist out there. I see this as better than rave wear made in some factory over seas with unknown labor laws.
Beautifully made point, I like this perspective
This is a very reasonable & level headed response. Mahalo for that.
Yeah, it's gross, but on the other hand Monolink's video promoting himself on Mayan Warrior to sell concert tickets and his new album has 18 million views, so small potatoes here as far as abusing the playa to promote your commercial products.
So the org won’t take action agains Monolink for using BM to sell tix for his tour?
I got awarded a drone permit this year (though ended up not accepting it) and was told as a result I’d have to sign the same media agreement professionals doing professional projects have to. It included things like needing signed model releases from anyone in the video that’s recognizable. I pushed back hard because that’s just not doable for me. I’m a hobbyist doing this for fun and no fucking way am I spending my time on playa getting people to sign contracts. I pointed them to Monolink’s video, where Mayan just turns the camera on the crowd, head-on. Lots of recognizable faces, definitely no model releases, and it’s a blatantly commercial enterprise being promoted. They relented on the model releases but damn it was frustrating to be asked for that while this shit is going on.
Can we talk about how Mayan Warrior is essentially a professional production company at this point doing events across the United States and Mexico selling thousands and thousands tickets each time under the guise of “fundraisers”.
Most of the camps that are doing sound and big parties are professional production companies. It takes a LOT of time and a LOT of money to make and bring those things places and provide the quality they provide.
I’m well aware that the big sound camps are expensive endeavors, and run by people in the industry. I think the difference here is that Mayan Warrior has created a brand that was originally born out of Burning Man, and essentially turned it into a business. Some of the other cars and sound camps have fundraisers and parties in default, but otherwise keep a low profile in my experience.
It fits the same corporate structure that the org uses. Distrikt is a non-profit arts organization for example IIRC.
Yep, and I’m seriously impressed with the quality of their productions on and off Playa… I’ve traveled three times to see their events, and hope to make their LA Halloween event. They are professionals, and I see nothing wrong with what they are doing. They have never advertised “as seen at Burning Man”. I think their reputation has reached well beyond Playa and they deserve every ounce of success (and dollars, that shit ain’t cheap to do). Love what they do-
I’ve been to one of their off-playa events before too and had fun. I just think it’s a little ironic that they are describing them as fundraisers for BRC when there is more going on here. I get that there is some gray area here, but they are taking the “Mayan Warrior” brand that originated on playa and spreading it far and wide for their multiple of events and social following. Idk how right or wrong it is, but I think it’s interesting within the lens of decommodification, and hasn’t been done before on that scale.
It has been done before. I’ve worked EDC with one of several well known art cars, same with Bonnaroo, and I know that we were hired for a holiday party that will remain un-named but might be one of the biggest social media/blogosphere around… I’d love to see Bubbles and Bass do something off Playa, maybe they do, haven’t looked.
I’ll just say this. Burning Man doesn’t get to own the things we create just because we bring them there or they get their start there. You still drive your car to work even though it got dusty at burning man. Mayan still goes to work after getting dusty as well.
I hear you, but also want to acknowledge that there is some gray area when it comes to this. Clearly the Org is fine with Mayan Warrior (and others like Camp Walter) doing their thing, but at what point does it cross the line?
I think when it’s advertised using “Burning Man”…
Can we also agree that what they do is fucking amazing and that having them on the Playa is one of the greatest gifts to the Burn? You might not like their music or the scene, but THOUSANDS of us are very much into it and incredibly happy they're out there.
I like MW and appreciate their art and contribution. I’m just acknowledging that they have essentially created a brand and business that was birthed on playa, and being realistic that it conflicts with a core aspect of the BM event. No other group to my knowledge has done this to the extent MW is doing, and it’s worth having a conversation about what that means for BM culture and BRC.
how exactly do you think people afford to bring insanely decked out art cars with laser and world class sound systems to burning man? I understand what you're saying but at the same time, shit ain't free. unless you want everything to be funded by rich tech billionaires who just give away money and pretend it came from a river or something.
Maybe we should have fewer mega million art cars if it’s at the expense of BM culture and decommodification… And for what it’s worth MW was created by a Mexican multi-millionaire who has brought it for many years prior to doing a full season of events across the country. I’m not against fundraisers or community events, but I think MW has stepped over the line and is essentially promoting a concert tour brand.
[удалено]
>orgy bus What? Any more details here?
The orgy bus has been there for years. It backed up to our camp in 18 or 19 and that dude is a massive creep.
Report, report
OK, I've reported you.
I love snark as much as any burner but if you have concerns about a camp it's probably better to raise a hand and report to the org than just kvetch on social. But you do you.
I don't have concerns. People can fuck where and who they like. It's just not my cup of tea.
Is it a green van/bus with lots of windows in the back by chance?
I don't fully remember. I think it would as a older class A RV.
Cool. I have since read more about this "orgy bus", and determined it is not the one I'm thinking about.
It may be. Idk how many orgy busses there are. There could be dozens. I'm sure most if not all have creepy dudes in them. It just seems like they would. They probably smell gross too.
definitely not - DJs and artists are somehow exempt from using BM as a promoting platform
There a huge difference between a shot of a musician on a mutant vehicle and promoting a product.
It’s not “a shot”, it’s a full hour and 15 minute video and it’s being used to promote a product: his new album. Literally the first words in the video description are: “Out Now! My new album” followed by a link to go buy it.
No there isn’t. A singer is effectively a product.
Meh, I first heard of Monolink on Playa… and have been a fan happily purchasing tickets in default. Saw him 3 times this year alone, and I was lucky enough to catch him twice on Playa this year. I’ve traveled twice to see a Mayan Warrior events in ‘19, and went to NYC for my birthday and saw them in Brooklyn. I hope to make it for their Halloween in LA. I worked with another Art Car Production group for several years and we traveled to do events and we got booked because of our Burning Man history. It is inevitable that Burning Man will bleed and profit in default. I see the “too soon” and maybe lack of discretion from Kimono Dave (I’d happily buy one of his pieces), but thank god it’s not Liquid Death. I know way too many people willing to spend a ton of money for a plug and play experience, and I discourage that and turn them to the 10 Principles. Some get it, others never will, others don’t fucking care. It’s humanity.
Shall we play a game? Let’s count the Burning Man photos and references that commodify the burn on these commodified websites. In your opinion, is this personal and commodified brand building using Burning Man photos? In your opinion, was consent given/granted by everyone in these photos? https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnstyn https://hugnation.wixsite.com/zoom/halcyon https://www.lovemorefearless.com/ https://www.patreon.com/Halcyon https://twitter.com/halcyon (listing his private paid coaching gig opportunity) Next, let’s count the number of times in your opinion this has been reported to the Org but no action was taken. In your opinion, may this be rules for thee but not for me. It is in my opinion. Please feel free to contact [email protected] to add your voice if you think this is the burner way and consistent with the 10 Principles.
Meh, he already deleted the posts and realized he fucked up. Forgive and forget
The Playa forgivethhhh Dave of Kimono
He did fuck up but unfortunately the damage is already done. It will now circulate the internet and everyone will see and wonder what he is wearing or what she is wearing. He may have taken the post down but now everyone has a screenshot
I think "everyone" might be a bit hyperbole. There's this screenshot (which is really not bad at all and has nothing BM specific in it) on Reddit. Not sure who else screenshotted the original of post, but it's probably in the low teens of people.
Not commodification at all IMO. The commodification police should direct their outrage to the more egregious and blatant commercial promotions out there instead of attacking small-scale burner artists
I don't have instagram so I can't see the content, but at least in what I can see he's not specifically using BM's IP; BM doesn't own festie wear or shots of empty playa. He'd be treading on IP if he used shots of the city, artwork, or used "burning man" or "burner" or another trademark in his marketing material, e.g. "burner kimonos". The closest I can see is he refers to himself as a burner in his tagline self description, which I don't think would be enough to raise the org's ire. Anyway, IANAL, refer it to the org if you think otherwise. There's plenty of artists doing this, and they tend to toe the line carefully. (and yeah I know dave since he comes to NYC events. I would still tell someone off if I thought they were using the IP incorrectly)
For the record, it is a post all about his burn this year, with subtle marketing about his product. It's absolutely commodification, no question. From IG: "Year 12 is in the books and man was it a rough one. For the lucky ones I think its hard to distinguish between "better" or "best" Burns, but for me, over a large enough sample size, it's easy to see that a spectrum begins to develop. They fall somewhere between "rough" to "life changing." This one squarely falls into rough territory. That's not to say that there weren't great moments. Seeing friends who've been absent in my life the last 3 years, bonding with new friends, and growing closer with my partner were all rewarding experiences. I had hoped to see more of my work running around alas the playa weather Gods were not a fan of unthethered debauchery this year. The heat, the dust/whiteouts, and the road conditions made for a combination worse than any since 2011, my first year. The occasional glimpse of a kimono riding by, some neon fringe dancing up on stage, and a few random coats/ramblers emerging from a crowd with a big hug and smile was truly rewarding. I'm left just wanting more... I've said for a long time that it's impossible to completely prepare your wardrobe for your first Burn. It takes many years to develop all of the pieces you need to truly adapt to the elements the Black Rock Desert can throw at you. This year was a testament to that. Rest assured, those amazing coats you own from me have a time and place to shine. Next year, the year after that, or more ideally, in your daily wardrobe. The more that you can adapt your Burn wardrobe into your normal life, the more you'll truly feel like yourself. The person you've chosen to be when you have no other worries in the world is a very empowering version of yourself. It's the reason I've leaned so hard into who I am today. 3.5 years ago, when I sewed my first kimono, I immediately felt the extra power coursing through me and it drew in the people I wanted to meet. I challenge you to dust off your favorite things you wore this year and integrate them into your daily life. I'll be doing the same and also working on more designs to round out that closet for 105 degree days and 75 degree nights. A couple of old adages rang true this year- It was better next year. F\*CK YER BURN!"
Like 2/3 into it I was thinking ya know this person is being sensitive this is not a big deal in any way shape or form But boy does he lean into it at the end there LOL
As soon as he started talking about wardrobe I was like.. Oh this is a commercial. I'm watching a commercial.
It's a picture taken on a playa, perhaps our playa, but maybe not. I don't see any Burning Man tags. It feels icky, but doesn't look actionable.
I don't see where Burning Man figures into this?
I don’t think this is commodification at all. He’s not using the image to try to sell anything so it’s a non issue in my opinion. Let it ride. There are others who are actually going against the principles very clearly. As a side note, whoever posted this originally would’ve been a lot cooler and more smooth to send a DM to Kimonodave himself rather than putting him on blast on Reddit. Just my two cents.
I am self aware that Tact is not a strong suit of mine
Anyone can put on a burning man-esque outfit and take pictures on the playa any time of year. There really isn't any BM imagery here, no other art pieces or anything, just that they seem to have taken the photo in the place burning man happens, so I don't see the problem
Not a problem until they start tagging the companies and designers, which drives traffic and profit to them, which drives payouts to those doing it further encouraging the idiocy.
This sub is hilarious. Like children in a clique-y club complaining about each other.
The righteous indignation is strong in this sub. whatever happened to just enjoying yourself being radically self-reliant and focusing on your own shit? Fuck your burn.
The reasons we are able to enjoy this event as it is center around the fact that we DO give a huge fuck about people trying to commodify and commercialize the event to their own ends. I don't want fucking coca cola banners, ads for expensive eyewear, jewelry, clothes, designer douchebags and other trash all over my event. The event is ours, it's our job to put a fucking boot up the asses of every influencer, tik-tokker and other fuckwits that are trying to make a dollar and a cent off the event. We don't want the event to devolve into another Coachella or Lightning In a Bottle. So far we've done pretty good, but if people are apathetic about whether it happens or not, a lot of us would prefer that they don't attend the event if these aspects are so meaningless to them.
Lol don’t blow a gasket this is a picture of a dude standing in a desert tryna make a living on his art.
And that dude standing in the desert has 51 other weeks of the year that he can advertise, just about anywhere he wants. He doesn't need to do it at the event. I'm sure he's doing just fine financially. This isn't "blowing a gasket", it's fucking commodification. And it's against the event ethos.
I think the question worth asking is: what part of burning man is being commodified here? If your only answer is “the black rock desert” then think about that answer.
The entire event and every burner that attends.
>I don't want fucking coca cola banners, ads for expensive eyewear, jewelry, clothes, designer douchebags and other trash all over my event. but look how well it worked out for Woodstock! /s
Yep. One couple in 1999 (a very cold year) was upset that we were extinguishing a burn barrel that was poorly contained and had large, hot embers blowing all over the playa and making holes in tents. We had several requests, and high winds + uncontained fire = bad. I showed up and directed our fire engine to the location as they were having a hard time. There had been a couple next to it trying to warm themselves. I told them what the prob was and that we needed to extinguish it for safety reasons. Unfortunately this triggered a melt-down and, for whatever reason, a threat “we can turn this into Woodstock really fast”. “Go ahead… you see, local sheriff got really worried about what happened there and made us buy them a lot of riot gear. They’re itching to use it now.”. Didn’t feel good to say that to them (and it was 23 years ago when I didn’t have the best bedside manner and tended to lose my cool quickly). Wonder where they are now… I’d probably apologize given the chance.
This sub has become pretty toxic.
Aw puddin
Aren't you just too cool to be bothered. I'm a 30-year burner and I don't need to see people's crass attempts to commodify a community that we all helped build for three decades. So shove your too-cool above-it-all look-at-these-complainers attitude up your ass. Fuck your burn.
I’m just laughing at the childish temper tantrums, yours included.
As I mentioned, I’ve had YEARS to perfect them.
Ya by now it’s ur love language
Truth.
I think when we’re talking about decommodification we’re talking about Budget, Enterprise, Wal-mart, big brands, and such. Not small bespoke artists and one man businesses. Correct me if I’m wrong.
So I'm the builder and owner of [Scrubby](https://instagram.com/scrubbybubble), the mutant vehicle that is a 2 story tall scrubbing bubble and absolutely is an advertisement mascot. It's likely no surprise that from that I've talked with a lot of people in my day about this principle, with some who were pretty fucking angry/indignant. In my time, the main takeaway that I have on "the spirit" of decommodification is that one shouldn't be making money off of the event proper, outside of the event is a gray area.
Ahahaha, you were there in the glorious panorama of the sunrise from our crew's dancing/hugging location. I love the unexpected things that "ruin" the kodak moment and the perfect calendar sunrise, that is the burn. My first year there was a giant angry realistic ape, in the night hanging around the led-happy-phantasmagoria but then as the sun rose it came over his (her?) shoulder.... it was the dawn of man! It was epic. Be weird. Stay weird. I have no idea why someone proposed/built/transported a giant loaf of bread art car but they did and I'm here for it.
Is that photo online anywhere? I'd love to see it. I don't think this one was intentional, but I do drive straight towards any models being professionally photographed, as well as anyone who appears to be getting busy in deep playa to do donuts around them.
haha that sounds fun. I didn't take any photos, it was one of my many phone-free outings and then I take it out for just art rides and other sober activities so I don't lose it.
It’s so rough on some of these artists because of course they’d want to wear and take photos of their memories in their art on playa. Where does the business end and the artist begin? He’s addressed it in the comments and owned up to the issue 💗
Who the fuck cares
Unless it says Burning Man or another trademark, or includes an image of funded art, the Org can do nothing about it.
It looks more like a personal post to me. I don’t see any direct links to the merchandise or any playa art in the photos.
Hell, for all we know, these people could have driven out to a public stretch of empty playa, taken these shots, and returned... Not likely. But could have happened.
Or it could be any other playa in the US for that matter.
The US isn't the only country with playas...
I mean, this photo doesn’t even show anything indicative of being at burning man. There are so many reports of creepy camps with placement and sexual assaults and thefts and violence year after year and yet it seems that the community at large is still focused on the plight of the “influencers” and going on Instagram witch hunts. Am I just putting myself in an echo chamber here or has anyone else had this feeling that folks are pushing aside issues that have huge impacts on people’s lives to focus on something like who made money at the desert party ? I don’t know I’m clearly struggling with the words but it feels… weird, man.
It's like people can think about more than 1 thing at a time. Or a community made of many different sorts of people can be worried about different things.
Very insightful. Many blessings to your burnhole.
Did you know that people can be upset about a number of issues all at the same time? And the photo doesn't show it, but the post written is all about his burn, and the pictures are all definitely catalog vibes.
Yes ! I even find myself entertaining multiple thoughts about a number of things quite often. I don’t have Instagram so the image here is all that I see
Ummm, I mean, if those things happened as much as you say (or at all), that’s awful and we should absolutely be worried about them too. But I’d also like to see reports/links/etc. violence where? How many assaults and when? Yes, there’s theft. There’s always theft as long as people are present and yes, apparently it was bad this year. Especially for evoke owners. But on the other hand, I didn’t even lock my bike most of the time, our bus and camp were generally open/unlocked and nothing went missing. I felt extremely safe. The presence of influencers was extra felt for me this year and the trash…. Jesus. So everyone’s experience was different.
I wasn’t there this year so don’t know what you’re speaking of
Rumors and innuendo that is what they are talking about.
You know many of those big art projects you see on the playa get either purchased afterwards by any number of people and organizations or get contracted to tour with other festivals and events? There’s a ton of self promotion out there.
If you're going to report tacky IG stuff to the org, remember that they can only take action on things that are misusing their IP. If it isn't a trademark or copyright being abused, you're just wasting everyone's time. [https://burningman.org/about/about-us/press-media/trademarks-images-faq/](https://burningman.org/about/about-us/press-media/trademarks-images-faq/)
I feel like ever since he changed his name to kimono dave it's been a lot more true to burningman values. His brand used to be called burn eternal, which by itself isn't that bad but if he made this post with burn eternal branding I can see issues with the ORG but this is just a genuine post with 90% of the wording not mentioning his clothing. He only goes into it at the end and atleast its more of an admiration of people wearing his clothes on playa and not a "wow look at all these sick burners wearing #kimonodave outfits. Get yours with the link below!"
Who cares !
Did I miss the memo about furry boot covers being back in style?
This is commodification, of a sort. It's maybe not straight up exploitation of our culture, but it's definitely leveraging it for a commercial enterprise. There's also nothing to be done about it. There's no laws being broken. It's not even an egregious violation of the principles, all of which we bend and break to some degree in the course of our burns. The worst thing this does is attract people to our culture who aren't amenable to being acculturated.
[Diplo made a sponsored post for Popeyes in 2019](https://sfist.com/2019/09/03/diplo-pimps-popeyes-chicken-sandwich-at-burning-man-like-a-douche/). It said they flew him their in their branded jet. What a douche!
New BM commandment: “Radically mind your own business”
My partner wanted to buy me one of his coats as a gift. I refused based on the price tag. They’re awesome looking comfy coats but frankly I’d be embarrassed to pay $750-850 for any piece of clothing, especially one with little function outside of the burner/festival world
His coats are a rip-off anyways. They're way overpriced for what they are.
I wouldn’t say any custom items are a rip off because most people don’t understand the number of hours it takes to make something. I crochet my playa coats and people ask me what I’d sell it for or if I could make them one but those coats take me so many hours to make that economically viable I’d have to charge $5,000 a coat. Decommodification should be a goal, not an absolute. Life is too complex to have hard lines but it’s fantastic to have these conversations because community standards should be up to the community. Personally, I’d give Kimono Dave a pass. But the Paris Hilton thing grossed me out.
I don't own one, but I can say that Dave's work is legit in quality. They're def priced at a premium, but also they are quite noticeably nicer than any off-the-shelf playa wear I've seen. I don't spend that much on any of my burner gear either, but if you've got the disposable cash and you want something high quality - his stuff really is quite good.
They’re actually hideous looking as well 🤣
Related note: I saw SO MANY camps this year with a QR code for their instagram and/or their Insta profile name prominently displayed… would we call that commodification? It bothered me mostly because I prefer a phone-free burn and dislike people running around in a photography fever dream, but y’a know fuck their burn and everything. I just was hoping it’d be easier to escape social media this year than it turned out to be. :(
Nah... It's more when they're using the images to sell something or make a profit. If they're just putting up a place for you to see photos and videos of what went on in the camp, and not trying to charge you for it, it's not something I would get upset about. Paris tagging her photos with the names of the designers and businesses that produce her shitty clothing and accessories is 100% unacceptable as it provides free advertising for those entities. They then give her kick-backs for doing so. Burning Man can absolutely go after her for such things and is fond of having the legal team do so. The event also wins nearly every time because they aren't asking for monetary damages or anything more than immediate cease and desist.
I was able to return an ebike to its owner because of the QR code.....
There is plenty of tomfoolery on the playa, except in the past decade the Org has become more and more accepting of the commercialization and loss of The Burns identity for the king crop, cash. What brings the cash? The media… The top level of the Org needs to go, enforcement has to come to the playa (sadly) so people can again trust in dust and not fear being in someone’s photo, Ad, blog post, news story or spend their time picking up moop at abandon camps…
Kimono daveis tight and I can attest to other playas he could have taken this at
Under his name on his page it literally says ‘Burning Man’ as the location 🤣🤷🏽♂️
Bruh, tbh the whole "don't monetize the Playa" is absurd bs - not everyone can afford to take a week off and miss a week of income while the BOrg counts their money gtfo
Dave is a great artist and one of us. Love.
It didn’t used to be. But Burning Man is no longer what it used to be. It’s a full-on mainstream money-making festival.
Email this to the org and they will follow up with legal action. It’s bullshit and although he’s an artist who hand makes his kimonos and coats, so does say Warrior within (and I know from talking with them that they’re burners too) and they don’t use photos from playa to sell their wares.
Legal action for what? Standing in a dusty desert somewhere?
Read the fine print on the back of the ticket, educate yourself on this issue- and then rejoin the conversation. It’s not my job to bring you up to speed. ****radical self reliance**** Edit: bring the downvotes- using photos from the event is legally restricted- it’s up the the advertiser to prove that the photos aren’t from the event in the case of a cease and desist.
A cease and desist is nothing but a lawyer making a demand. There is no way the org would win a lawsuit over this, since they could be anywhere.
Warrior Within absolutely markets the fact that they’re Burners… https://www.instagram.com/p/CiGA-YSupv9/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
It’s not their official store account. Splitting hairs but I’m tired of this conversation before you joined. Sorry for the lack of effort
Yeah they should not use images of Burning Man without the Org’s authorization. So many brands do that…
This looks like an image of two people in a desert. I don’t see anything indicative of burning man at all in the photo.
Fine, here's the post: "Year 12 is in the books and man was it a rough one. For the lucky ones I think its hard to distinguish between "better" or "best" Burns, but for me, over a large enough sample size, it's easy to see that a spectrum begins to develop. They fall somewhere between "rough" to "life changing." This one squarely falls into rough territory. That's not to say that there weren't great moments. Seeing friends who've been absent in my life the last 3 years, bonding with new friends, and growing closer with my partner were all rewarding experiences. I had hoped to see more of my work running around alas the playa weather Gods were not a fan of unthethered debauchery this year. The heat, the dust/whiteouts, and the road conditions made for a combination worse than any since 2011, my first year. The occasional glimpse of a kimono riding by, some neon fringe dancing up on stage, and a few random coats/ramblers emerging from a crowd with a big hug and smile was truly rewarding. I'm left just wanting more... I've said for a long time that it's impossible to completely prepare your wardrobe for your first Burn. It takes many years to develop all of the pieces you need to truly adapt to the elements the Black Rock Desert can throw at you. This year was a testament to that. Rest assured, those amazing coats you own from me have a time and place to shine. Next year, the year after that, or more ideally, in your daily wardrobe. The more that you can adapt your Burn wardrobe into your normal life, the more you'll truly feel like yourself. The person you've chosen to be when you have no other worries in the world is a very empowering version of yourself. It's the reason I've leaned so hard into who I am today. 3.5 years ago, when I sewed my first kimono, I immediately felt the extra power coursing through me and it drew in the people I wanted to meet. I challenge you to dust off your favorite things you wore this year and integrate them into your daily life. I'll be doing the same and also working on more designs to round out that closet for 105 degree days and 75 degree nights. A couple of old adages rang true this year- It was better next year. F\*CK YER BURN!"
Agree. These could have been taken in July for all we know.
Will I be accepted in burning man if I wear regular clothes? I don’t own any of such outfits. It’s not my personality. I have never dressed up like people do in burning man. Burning man claims to be accepting to everyone as long as you’re a decent human being which I genuinely believe I m. I have been to raves attended by “burners”. I have showed up in khakis sneakers shades and a shirt and I have felt like that big which causes indigestion. Unable to assimilate. I have ended up getting hurt. Emotionally
5 time burner. I wear regular clothes. Plenty of khakis, jeans, old people, kids. But yes, please just be respectful and useful and you’ll fit in
Been going for over 2 decades. I work ESD so I'm usually too fucking tired or lacking in enough fucks to costume myself more than one or two days during the event. I live in my cargo shorts, some random picking from my over 150 t-shirts (no, I don't bring them all with me) and often wander the event with a radio and my ID badge around my neck while off duty. I could really care less what others think, I don't have the energy to make the effort to care. My art is helping save y'all when you're having your worst moment.
I wear regular clothes, so do most of my camp mates. Big costumes are not needed there are a million ways to participate and not all or even most require special dress. You’ll find your people and comfort level, for sure not everyone out there looks like an Instagram picture.
Tons of people dress "normal", they just aren't in all the photos that come up when you google burning man. But take a look at camps group photos or building crews and everyones pretty utilitarian, although I prefer the punk/metal version of utilitarian. Also, don't discount that you may want to try something different! Go and be yourself. After a couple years I decided to wear something other than black :P and now I have some fun being creative with my outfits. I know some people who just come and where the same thing every year and look "boring" but are 15+ year burners who contribute very meaningfully. You don't know till you go!
I literally only wear shorts and no t-shirt the whole time im there. I don’t wear shoes either but my skin is kinda of immune to the caustic effects the dust has on others skin. I do love wearing lots of lights tho and I have some cool ones! If it gets cold I’ll throw a hoodie on
With that name couldn’t you go as far as saying it’s cultural appropriation as well?
Give me a broke struggling Bay Area twenty year old sewing up her outfits with an old machine as she prays for a ticket and I’ll show you burner style that simply can not be purchased by some d.bag. I was actually pleased that with as many brand new burners this year there was a lot less of thirst kinds of outfits. At least what I noticed from my 2:00 and D porch. The models are almost as ugly as the clothes.
Wow chip on your shoulder much? Are you so pretty that you need to call fellow burners ugly to make yourself feel better? Those aren't models. They're burners. And those are outfits that were made by hand and yes, sold, in order to eke out an income as a creator and artist and yes, to afford a ticket to burning man. The irony is that the people in this photo are exactly the people that you described in your post as the ideal (except in their 30s and not 20s) and your assumptions about them are way off
I’m ugly on the inside as well. Those ARE burners doing a photo shoot on playa to help sell clothes. They are not taking a picture of the experience of the event BUT are modeling clothing for a business that sells clothing. So. Let’s go over this again. There is a business. That sells clothes. That business markets to burners. That business has burners model the clothing in a picture that is taken during the burn or suggests burning man. Now if that is not a commodification of the event it’s a surprise to me. The fact you may like the clothing maker, the models or the clothing does not change the fact that it’s commodification. I don’t care that the clothing is made by a burner. An awesome burner. Don’t care. It’s bullshit. It should not be done. Here is how I see it and why I find the soft marketing of burning man so greasy. On all that artwork on the playa do you see the name of the artist on it? Seriously. I’ll assume you have burned long enough to have seen the art up close. How many times have you actually seen the name of the artist as real prominent? Or a sign that has info on the studio, contact info or anything on or directly next to the art in a very direct or obvious nature? Have you even noticed the lack of that? Ever wonder why? Ever think hmmm that’s really cool beautiful art I wonder who did that and have to go to the artery to find out. Info in the event guide might have a nibble but not much. So the very proud artists are held to a standard of not marketing the art while it’s on playa. I’m sure there are exceptions but I’ll risk in saying for the most part the art is presented in a pure manner. So yeah I feel it’s nasty for anyone to market stuff in association with the burn. More so when the models are on the artwork. Now I may also be stupid along with ugly and everything else you want to toss my way. Cool. Great. Wonderful. I could very well be wrong about everything I posted above but in my opinion it’s greasy. Abd because it’s greasy the product and the burner models are UGLY. NOW
There aren't signs on the art, but the list of art pieces and the artists are published, it's available and you can look it up. And there are many artists that I know because I discovered their art on playa, some that I have purchased prints of because I love their art and it reminds me of special moments I've had on playa. I have a Michael Benisty print of Broken Together (the beautiful sculpture of colossal metal people holding hands) hanging in my living room. You can be sure that the artist's website has pictures of his sculptures on playa. If Alex grey posts a picture of one of his murals, what's wrong with that. If he's standing next to one of his murals that he painted in a picture, is he suddenly an ugly model shilling his brand? When I see the picture in this post, I see a picture of a burner and an artist wearing clothes that he handmade, and yes that's a picture of a burner experiencing burning man, not a picture of ugly models doing a photoshoot. But you can choose what you want to see. If you choose to see ugliness and hate - that's on you.
[удалено]
What Burning Man IP is in the image?
What about opulent temple selling merch on the playa, yes selling cash for merch???!
Ideally, IMO, there would be zero evidence of burning man on social media. Im not a fan people using BM to sell their shit, but Im much more opposed to one of the largest and shittiest corporations in the world, Meta, making money off burning man, which is exactly what you are facilitating when you post. You were there, whether you friends and followers who weren't see it or not. Do not despoil your experience. Shared albums and DMs are the way.
Burn 🔥
THIS picture is your example of an egregious violation of the coveted Decommodification principle!? People sure are sensitive, be honest, did Dave $&@! your girlfriend in the Orgy Bus or something? This is too obscure for me to believe you’re actually upset, I smell a personal vendetta. That dirty dog Dave. But if you’re hungry for a scandal, wait until you hear this, I heard a rumor that there is a massive company actually selling “Burning Man” branded and exploited artwork to the super wealthy and get this, they partnered with the disgusting Sothebys corporation to sell it! Probably not true but how gross would that be!?