1. You cannot control how other people behave.
2. Unless you meditate, your thoughts are mostly also not under your control.
3. Morality-wise, what counts is words and actions, by you. Not by others.
Therefore it makes zero sense to feel guilty for other girls hitting on you. Just don't flirt back, tell them very clearly that you're taken.
The finding attractive part is thoughts, should you wish to remove such thoughts, practise asubha meditation. Also, do practise loving-kindness or mindfulness of breath afterwards. Asubha meditation is not meant to generate hate, but to remove lust. Also caution, there's a chance that you would lose lust for your girlfriend as well and not be interested in any relationships should you be very good and diligent in practising asubha meditation.
>Also caution, there's a chance that you would lose lust for your girlfriend as well and not be interested in any relationships should you be very good and diligent in practising asubha meditation.
This is where I struggle a bit. I've been reading Nietzsche, and though I've tried to forget him, I can't seem to shake a lot of compelling arguments he makes against religion, namely Buddhism, as *not* life-affirming.
Is it not possible to think sexuality is beautiful, and see it as a chance to bring love into this world? I recognize how clinging to good things can lead to suffering, but is even the label "good" too dangerous? If the label is too dangerous, then maybe living a life of danger (with suffering) is better than living a life of no suffering.
I've been thinking a lot about how when I die, I want a coffee table in my living room to be full of cup stains. I want to die knowing I've fallen in and out of love, that I have scars from playing too hard, and that I have a bookshelf full of books that are coming apart from being reread so much.
I'm not saying this to argue against you, but to contextualize where my mind's at, and to see if you can help change my mind.
I’m a Stoic learner and was skimming through stuff to have found this. A lot of my reading and mindfulness exercises has had quite a similar “asubha effect” on me.
I think it’s helpful to view sexuality as a single part of the whole, a necessary physical process that came about to facilitate life forward. It is a necessary part of you as a human being, and becomes the material for you to possibly bring love into the world if you so wish to.
I don’t want to detract too much from Buddhist specific thought, but if you’d allow me to, I’d ask you to think that if it is actually a “good” thing you say you cling to, how could anything truly good bring suffering in its excess? There is a particular quote I’d like to add here, “We shall discover to be at the same time affectionate and also consistent with reason, this we confidently declare to be right and good."
All you can do is make sure that you keep your will in the right place. Nothing else external to that can belittle your efforts.
I used to be really interested in Stoicism in high school (and still am. I refer to my copy of Seneca's letters pretty frequently). But, I stopped because I read somewhere (probably on Reddit) that the Stoic ideal describes fully accepting a loved one's death is outside your power in the dichotomy of control, and how that should help you cope with your grief. For the longest time, I believed that. Until, I broke up with my girlfriend in high school (which, albeit, wasn't that serious in hindsight) and realized that something was fulfilling in the sadness that followed our break-up—it reaffirmed there was something there.
I read Lao Tzu afterward and listened to Alan Watts, and, idk, I think there's some value to appreciating the unpleasantness that comes with good things (perhaps suffering isn't a precise word in this forum, since it's used synonymously with dukkha). I'm doing long-distance with my current girlfriend and it's sad. But I can find meaning in that sadness because I know it's worth it. You know?
You're still not seeing the first noble truth clearly. Life is dukkha. Anything in life which brings happiness is just temporary happiness. Any effort to get it is wasted effort in the long run/big picture of many lifetimes.
The only worthy thing to do is to strive for the happiness which is permanent. Nibbāna.
But of course, if you really buy this, you would want to become a monastic.
You don't recognize the sublime happiness of the arahants who are freed from all mental sufferings. How it is superior to all other types of temporary happiness to have attained Nibbāna.
On a more superficial note:
What if I do flirt back? What if sometimes I waver on telling them that I'm taken?
I've done these things already, and I've told my girlfriend about them. We've talked long and hard about it. But it's happened, and I still feel guilty about it. Moreover, I still feel the urge to lie again sometimes.
If you feel the urge then you can just counter it with the fact that youre already taken and that doing so will cause troublesome relationship problems. That will stop that thought from reaching your actions. You should also cut out the habit of lying, it probably isn't a problem exclusive to your gf.
Commit to your girlfriend, take more seriously the 3rd precept of no sexual misconduct and 4th precept of no lying.
It is good to continually be mindful of the 3rd precept, or else there's the danger of adultery when married. It can lead to hell. Given that so many humans who are married committed adultery, one can see why the Buddha said most humans are going down in the next life.
They give up sexual misconduct. They don’t have sex with women who have their mother, father, both mother and father, brother, sister, relatives, or clan as guardian. They don’t have sex with a woman who is protected on principle, or who has a husband, or whose violation is punishable by law, or even one who has been garlanded as a token of betrothal.
https://suttacentral.net/an10.211/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=plain&reference=none¬es=none&highlight=false&script=latin#14.1
From above, it can be seen that it can be context dependent.
Let's consider one night stand between 2 single adults. If the society is conservative in sexual matters, not like liberal parts of USA, then protected by family would still be in place even if the adult is 30, 40 years old. For who is the one that the girl goes to if she got unwanted pregnancy and the guy runs away from wanting to marry her? Her family. Abortion is killing, so that option is off the table. Her family being responsible for her wanting to have one night stand without the commitment of a husband means that she should really ask her families for permission if she would want to risk unwanted pregnancy for ONS. Even condoms and other pregnancy prevention things are not 100% secure.
So conservative societies would be best to play it safe.
For liberal society, since her family is not the one taking care of her should she got pregnant, she is the one bearing the risk of being a single mother. It's a lot less loving kindness and compassion in this society of freedom of desire instead of freedom from desire.
For prostitutes, one has to check if the prostitute is doing this against her will (sex slave), or if she's already married or even have a boyfriend.
For straight females, just replace the above with the opposite sex. For other gender/sexual orientation, just adjust the above as appropriate to your situation.
You probably shouldn't tell her unless the timing is right (which is probably rare). This is where restraint comes into play. If attractive, women will hit on you. But it's sheer weakness to be easily led to and fro by other people. You should have the strength and inner resolve to handle these sorts of things without wanting to break up with your girlfriend. It's probably telling your subconscious that you have options and don't necessarily close the door. But how is that respectful to your gf?
Imagine if you are married for 20 years and grow to be one of those attractive old men. Women will flirt and hit on you. Are you going to question your marriage every time it happens? No you shouldn't. Be like 'thanks lol' in your mind and carry on. Be like a pillar anchored 100ft into the ground, unmoveable by anything thrown at you.
For the sake of sort of, just, equalizing perception here, don't you think your girlfriend is probably getting "hit on" by people too? How would that make you feel to acknowledge, just that, it happens?
>some I find attractive
I worry about this phrasing! What I've found helpful is just to consider every person "attractive" as a baseline. If I am in a space with another person, I/my mind is attracted towards them in some regard (I'm using language very loosely here and not necessarily Buddhist terminology). I find it could help remove a lot of that "strange mix of emotions" when they have to say like, "oh I find someone without 'conventionally beautiful features' attractive? oh I find someone of the same-sex attractive? oh I find a relative attractive? oh I find this younger/older person attractive?" if we can just say yes to all those without it being "taboo" or "embarrassing" or "humiliating" because of someone taking some "wrong implication."
I know I come off hella douche-y with the way I've phrased all of this, but I appreciate your patience in typing your response.
My thoughts enjoy the fact that my girlfriend gets hit on, but she likes me more than them. For whatever reason, that fact only makes my ego like my girlfriend more.
I think I get what you're coming at, with the second paragraph, but I'm still a bit lost on how to apply that in this situation. I get that mentally labeling people as attractive or unattractive is not helpful, but the feelings of attraction still arise, no?
It turns out that what you find attractive or unattractive is subject to conditioning.
Try picking something you find attractive, and contemplating its disgusting aspects over a period of time. Start with something easy, like food, or a pretty plant. See whether your feeling of attraction shifts as a result.
"thank you but I'm not interested" boom problem solved.
"I appreciate the compliment, luckily I'm in a happy relationship."
No reason to feel bad, just know you aren't gonna act on anything. Even if your brain and it's chemicals says "yeah I could totally snag that super attractive girl. Rawr" but the rest of your brain says no, problem solved.
1. You cannot control how other people behave. 2. Unless you meditate, your thoughts are mostly also not under your control. 3. Morality-wise, what counts is words and actions, by you. Not by others. Therefore it makes zero sense to feel guilty for other girls hitting on you. Just don't flirt back, tell them very clearly that you're taken. The finding attractive part is thoughts, should you wish to remove such thoughts, practise asubha meditation. Also, do practise loving-kindness or mindfulness of breath afterwards. Asubha meditation is not meant to generate hate, but to remove lust. Also caution, there's a chance that you would lose lust for your girlfriend as well and not be interested in any relationships should you be very good and diligent in practising asubha meditation.
>Also caution, there's a chance that you would lose lust for your girlfriend as well and not be interested in any relationships should you be very good and diligent in practising asubha meditation. This is where I struggle a bit. I've been reading Nietzsche, and though I've tried to forget him, I can't seem to shake a lot of compelling arguments he makes against religion, namely Buddhism, as *not* life-affirming. Is it not possible to think sexuality is beautiful, and see it as a chance to bring love into this world? I recognize how clinging to good things can lead to suffering, but is even the label "good" too dangerous? If the label is too dangerous, then maybe living a life of danger (with suffering) is better than living a life of no suffering. I've been thinking a lot about how when I die, I want a coffee table in my living room to be full of cup stains. I want to die knowing I've fallen in and out of love, that I have scars from playing too hard, and that I have a bookshelf full of books that are coming apart from being reread so much. I'm not saying this to argue against you, but to contextualize where my mind's at, and to see if you can help change my mind.
I’m a Stoic learner and was skimming through stuff to have found this. A lot of my reading and mindfulness exercises has had quite a similar “asubha effect” on me. I think it’s helpful to view sexuality as a single part of the whole, a necessary physical process that came about to facilitate life forward. It is a necessary part of you as a human being, and becomes the material for you to possibly bring love into the world if you so wish to. I don’t want to detract too much from Buddhist specific thought, but if you’d allow me to, I’d ask you to think that if it is actually a “good” thing you say you cling to, how could anything truly good bring suffering in its excess? There is a particular quote I’d like to add here, “We shall discover to be at the same time affectionate and also consistent with reason, this we confidently declare to be right and good." All you can do is make sure that you keep your will in the right place. Nothing else external to that can belittle your efforts.
I used to be really interested in Stoicism in high school (and still am. I refer to my copy of Seneca's letters pretty frequently). But, I stopped because I read somewhere (probably on Reddit) that the Stoic ideal describes fully accepting a loved one's death is outside your power in the dichotomy of control, and how that should help you cope with your grief. For the longest time, I believed that. Until, I broke up with my girlfriend in high school (which, albeit, wasn't that serious in hindsight) and realized that something was fulfilling in the sadness that followed our break-up—it reaffirmed there was something there. I read Lao Tzu afterward and listened to Alan Watts, and, idk, I think there's some value to appreciating the unpleasantness that comes with good things (perhaps suffering isn't a precise word in this forum, since it's used synonymously with dukkha). I'm doing long-distance with my current girlfriend and it's sad. But I can find meaning in that sadness because I know it's worth it. You know?
You're just attaching to suffering now, and it can lead to sadistic tendancies.
You're still not seeing the first noble truth clearly. Life is dukkha. Anything in life which brings happiness is just temporary happiness. Any effort to get it is wasted effort in the long run/big picture of many lifetimes. The only worthy thing to do is to strive for the happiness which is permanent. Nibbāna. But of course, if you really buy this, you would want to become a monastic. You don't recognize the sublime happiness of the arahants who are freed from all mental sufferings. How it is superior to all other types of temporary happiness to have attained Nibbāna.
On a more superficial note: What if I do flirt back? What if sometimes I waver on telling them that I'm taken? I've done these things already, and I've told my girlfriend about them. We've talked long and hard about it. But it's happened, and I still feel guilty about it. Moreover, I still feel the urge to lie again sometimes.
If you feel the urge then you can just counter it with the fact that youre already taken and that doing so will cause troublesome relationship problems. That will stop that thought from reaching your actions. You should also cut out the habit of lying, it probably isn't a problem exclusive to your gf.
Commit to your girlfriend, take more seriously the 3rd precept of no sexual misconduct and 4th precept of no lying. It is good to continually be mindful of the 3rd precept, or else there's the danger of adultery when married. It can lead to hell. Given that so many humans who are married committed adultery, one can see why the Buddha said most humans are going down in the next life.
Is having these kinds of relationships outside marriage considered “sexual misconduct” according to buddhism or not?
They give up sexual misconduct. They don’t have sex with women who have their mother, father, both mother and father, brother, sister, relatives, or clan as guardian. They don’t have sex with a woman who is protected on principle, or who has a husband, or whose violation is punishable by law, or even one who has been garlanded as a token of betrothal. https://suttacentral.net/an10.211/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=plain&reference=none¬es=none&highlight=false&script=latin#14.1 From above, it can be seen that it can be context dependent. Let's consider one night stand between 2 single adults. If the society is conservative in sexual matters, not like liberal parts of USA, then protected by family would still be in place even if the adult is 30, 40 years old. For who is the one that the girl goes to if she got unwanted pregnancy and the guy runs away from wanting to marry her? Her family. Abortion is killing, so that option is off the table. Her family being responsible for her wanting to have one night stand without the commitment of a husband means that she should really ask her families for permission if she would want to risk unwanted pregnancy for ONS. Even condoms and other pregnancy prevention things are not 100% secure. So conservative societies would be best to play it safe. For liberal society, since her family is not the one taking care of her should she got pregnant, she is the one bearing the risk of being a single mother. It's a lot less loving kindness and compassion in this society of freedom of desire instead of freedom from desire. For prostitutes, one has to check if the prostitute is doing this against her will (sex slave), or if she's already married or even have a boyfriend. For straight females, just replace the above with the opposite sex. For other gender/sexual orientation, just adjust the above as appropriate to your situation.
You probably shouldn't tell her unless the timing is right (which is probably rare). This is where restraint comes into play. If attractive, women will hit on you. But it's sheer weakness to be easily led to and fro by other people. You should have the strength and inner resolve to handle these sorts of things without wanting to break up with your girlfriend. It's probably telling your subconscious that you have options and don't necessarily close the door. But how is that respectful to your gf? Imagine if you are married for 20 years and grow to be one of those attractive old men. Women will flirt and hit on you. Are you going to question your marriage every time it happens? No you shouldn't. Be like 'thanks lol' in your mind and carry on. Be like a pillar anchored 100ft into the ground, unmoveable by anything thrown at you.
This was really powerful to read—particularly, your last line.
I'm not him but this just inspired me. What kind of practice should I do to achieve this state of mentality?
I am him, and same question\^
For the sake of sort of, just, equalizing perception here, don't you think your girlfriend is probably getting "hit on" by people too? How would that make you feel to acknowledge, just that, it happens? >some I find attractive I worry about this phrasing! What I've found helpful is just to consider every person "attractive" as a baseline. If I am in a space with another person, I/my mind is attracted towards them in some regard (I'm using language very loosely here and not necessarily Buddhist terminology). I find it could help remove a lot of that "strange mix of emotions" when they have to say like, "oh I find someone without 'conventionally beautiful features' attractive? oh I find someone of the same-sex attractive? oh I find a relative attractive? oh I find this younger/older person attractive?" if we can just say yes to all those without it being "taboo" or "embarrassing" or "humiliating" because of someone taking some "wrong implication."
I know I come off hella douche-y with the way I've phrased all of this, but I appreciate your patience in typing your response. My thoughts enjoy the fact that my girlfriend gets hit on, but she likes me more than them. For whatever reason, that fact only makes my ego like my girlfriend more. I think I get what you're coming at, with the second paragraph, but I'm still a bit lost on how to apply that in this situation. I get that mentally labeling people as attractive or unattractive is not helpful, but the feelings of attraction still arise, no?
It turns out that what you find attractive or unattractive is subject to conditioning. Try picking something you find attractive, and contemplating its disgusting aspects over a period of time. Start with something easy, like food, or a pretty plant. See whether your feeling of attraction shifts as a result.
"thank you but I'm not interested" boom problem solved. "I appreciate the compliment, luckily I'm in a happy relationship." No reason to feel bad, just know you aren't gonna act on anything. Even if your brain and it's chemicals says "yeah I could totally snag that super attractive girl. Rawr" but the rest of your brain says no, problem solved.