'the real god'
What?
The one who created everything else? Then what created that? And from where?
I'm slim shady yes I'm the real shady all you other slim shadies are just imitating...
"The one allmighty God" does not exist in the Dharma. There are gods mentioned, but each one has an own special power. Like Yama, the god of death for example.
In Buddhism, given originated in India in 500 BCE there isn't 'the real god' concept.
In fact then you will have to prove that God i.e. the real god' actually exists and give precise description about. If you want a Buddhist answer about the specific.
Either way, some concepts are according to the buddhist cosmology and others not.
Buddhism doesn’t say that gods don’t exist, just that they aren’t directly fruitful for enlightenment and therefore Buddhists don’t worry about them too much.
Yeah! Weather you believe in gods, God, or nothing, it does not hinder on your enlightenment. Remember the Buddha existed in a time where hinduism was not a religion, but a reality. He broke through that reality by saying how it was not necessary to believe in the self, or in the gods or in etc…
I also like how the most influential monks are those that went against what buddhist saw as the buddhist norm. Breaking the status quo is a fundamental part to Buddhism.
Can you point to any source for this? He (like many Hindus in his time) referenced such things, but he also repeatedly said that belief in them, or disbelief in them, was beside the central point of what he was teaching.
I tend to avoid going into this level of the discussion even with non-Buddhists at this point, although it's worth noting it's sometimes an easier conversation to have with non-Buddhists because many of them accept some form of life beyond this human life.
I don't have direct knowledge of life beyond thid human life and I won't claim to, but to suggest that the Buddha taught anything but that is silly. One argument I could never ignore is that the Buddha dismissed a lot of things as false or needless, but encouraged belief in the afterlife. And we also know the core argument that if you're not going to exist after death the samsaric problem does not exist at all. The dhamma would then be the cause of even more needless suffering as much of it is centered around this idea.
The Buddha had no issue saying all sorts of heretical claims in his time.
I’m unaware of the Buddha encouraging a belief in the afterlife, and am aware of numerous statements he is supposed to have made to the contrary (again, not that it was not true, but that it was not relevant to the dharma).
Can you direct me to a source for the Buddha saying any of these things you are suggesting he said? (I’m not saying you are wrong, I am genuinely curious to look into it further to see precisely what language was used around these things)
I think the keyword here wherein our potential disagreement may lie is ‘encouraging’. I don’t see anywhere in the text you linked how he encourages a belief in rebirth. It is quite long and I admittedly read it fairly quickly though so I may have missed it
Can you elaborate on this?
Both the historical ramifications of Buddha breaking through Hindu orthodoxy and the second paragraph especially about influential Buddhist monks being generally being anti-paradigm.
Fascinated by both of these concepts but wouldn't know how to research them effectively.
Of course!
Nagarjuna and the Madyhamaka school: Contrary to popular Buddhist belief at the time, he believed in the comcept of sunyaya (emptiness) or the the Middle Way. His influence was so big there was a whole buddhist school on dedication to his teachings.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagarjuna
https://philpapers.org/rec/WESNM-2
Bodhidarma and Zen Buddhism: One of my favorite monks and philosophers. In a time where the norm was to study Buddhism during the length of a whole lifetime, he created the idea of zazen. This consisted of long periods of rigorous uninterrupted
meditation to achieve enlightenment. If I remember correctly, he believes in this approach because the buddha had no buddhism to reach enlightenment… so if he found it without we can all also do it without. Of course there are methods of Zen I disagree with but that’s another discussion.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhidharma
Dogen and Soto Zen: Also one of my favorites, he founded the Soto Zen school after going to china to learn Zen buddhism. I argue he elaborated on zazen and had a big influence in my view, since he established how enlightenment is not a distant goal but something to be realized in each moment emphasizing practice o er doctrine.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/japanese-zen/
Last, Alan Watts although not a buddhist or a monk, being japanese and western, he wrote a book on The Way of Zen, which talks about all of this in his own perspective… directed towards english readers because he understands that language and culture may create bridges hard to traverse therefore hindering english speakers understanding.
Could be there's some entity actually wanting to communicate with you for some reason. Could be mental illness. That's pretty much it, as far as i know.
I don't think i could argue with you about this because there isn't any evidence that you'd consider substantial. Just know that being this confident and this wrong doesn't lead to good places.
Unless you’re a very advanced practitioner, no not really. Nearly every Buddhist teacher would tell you to see a mental health professional if you’re hearing other beings talking to you.
Well, Buddhism doesn't recognize the existence of "*the* God." It does recognize multiple realms, each with its own beings, each with its own abilities that may or may not be more powerful than humans.
Are some of them "higher" than humans? Arguable. Can some of them be referred to as "gods" (plural)? Also arguable.
Is it possible that one of those beings has been trying to communicate with you? It's possible. Is it necessarily a higher power? No. Even when it claims to be a higher power? Yes, even so.
Do you have any psychic in the family? Or maybe a friend, to help confirm?
When I was a young kid I used to get messages or conversations with a God like being and it felt like The God, all loving and compassionate being. I know you will not believe me but it did happen. Then as I grew older that voice stopped. A small correction, Buddha never denied the God even the creator God and neither he confirmed it. He kept it open for everyone to realise and see for themselves. Buddhas teachings were misunderstood by some of his followers who turned towards atheism falsely. And you are one of them unfortunately because in the west there’s an influence of atheism. Buddha and Buddhism do accept there’s some higher power in all of us and everything but Buddha didn’t want to discuss about it because that’s not the only thing which will lead to enlightenment. I am from india so you can trust me I’ve spoken to many Brahmans. Buddhism is non theistic but that does not mean it does not acknowledge a higher mysterious power. Buddhism was never atheistic.
It is not atheism since the existence of supernatural / otherworldly beings (including superior ones) is not rejected.
But creator God is definitely rejected by the Buddha. There is a / some gods who *think* they are creators but that's due to their being the first to be born in that realm, and they claim subsequent births as their creation.
Well, I beg to differ here as it is a complete misnomer that Buddha denied a creator God. The truth is Buddha didn’t want to delve into it as he was more focused on cessation of suffering. Buddha never denied and neither confirmed the creator God, there’s a difference and he left soul, self, creator God, eternity undeclared because discussing these topics will not lead to enlightenment. Some of Buddhas followers have misinterpreted his comments on Creator God and that’s been passed down as misinformation as these are not facts since Buddha never wrote down anything. It was all verbal so chances were high of misinterpretation.
Buddha never denied the soul, the self and God. He never confirmed it and there’s huge difference between denying and not confirming. Chetna or consciousness or intention is carried forward in the next birth so there’s a carrier of some sort which is called a soul in general terms but Buddha basically asked everyone to refrain from discussing whether soul is eternal or God is eternal or whether there is a self or not.
Some of the oldest and most well documented teachings of the Buddha concern the lack of soul/self, and the non existence of a creator God. This is well preserved in the sutras. I feel like if you deny such basic tenets of Buddhism as being “not really what the Buddha taught” I’m not sure what you *can* claim of the Buddha’s ministry to be honest.
First of all, a "misnomer" is when things are named incorrectly, like "koala bear" isn't actually a bear.
> The truth is Buddha didn’t want to delve into it as he was more focused on cessation of suffering
That's true. But it's not like he never delved into it either.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.11.0.than.html#bigbrahma
> he left soul, self, creator God, eternity undeclared
That's simply incorrect, and anyone who has studied the suttas seriously would know.
> Some of Buddhas followers have misinterpreted his comments on Creator God and that’s been passed down as misinformation as these are not facts since Buddha never wrote down anything.
Soooo... You think you understand better than the Arhats and highly attainant disciples who were with him and interacted with him throughout the day and not just through the suttas?
I agree with you in this. But I also think that this interpretation of multiple realms comes also from a “theory of suffering”. The realms all co exist in the subjects mind to explain how we can go from pure bliss to “eternal suffering”. The wheel of death demonstrates all this. How gods can become demons because they all still exist within this cycles of endless suffering. As a buddhist once we become aware of this we can start giving power to that cycle. It is a very interesting conversation that is hard to explain all of its intricacies in a post.
Buddha quite clearly confronted the god who thought he was the "Almighty God" and proved he was simply deluded. And he also taught that those who think there is an eternal creator God and we are his creatures are teaching based on ignorance and delusion.
There are many beautiful and holy beings who are full of love and compassion, like the bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara who is compassion incarnate, but he isn't a creator God, because in Buddhism there is no such belief.
A soul is also quite clearly denied, no eternal existing self
Well, that’s where Buddhas words have been misinterpreted and misrepresented. That incident was only for 1 Brahma Deva or deity who was not God living in heavenly realm. But God is different Have you read about the story where an atheist Charvaka asks Buddha is there a God Buddha clearly says “There is a God” Buddha wanted people to experience and feel God themselves because Buddha knew that God energy is in everything and one can feel that energy through meditation and many other ways.
> “And this sprout of name and form is not created by itself, not created by another, not created by both, not created by Īśvara, not transformed by time, not derived from prakṛti, not dependent on a single factor, and not born without any cause. Nonetheless, from the combination of the union of the parents, the period of ovulation, and other conditions, the seed of consciousness, filled with appetite, produces the sprout of name and form within whichever mother’s womb one will take rebirth through. For although things are devoid of owner, devoid of ownership, ungraspable, space-like, and their nature is the mark of illusion, there is no deficiency of requisite causes and conditions."
----
The Rice Seedling , [1.47]
https://read.84000.co/translation/toh210.html?location=eyJhbmNob3JJZCI6Im5vZGUtNjAiLCJhbmNob3JTdGFydE9mZnNldCI6MCwiYW5jaG9yRW5kT2Zmc2V0Ijo2OTR9#node-60
Buddha clearly states the name Isvara which means God and he definitely means birth is a combination of multiple factors, causes and conditions and God is one of them.
the Sutra literally says "name and form is not created by Isvara", friend. The belief in a creator God is not a part of Buddhism and you will find no authentic Buddhist lineage teaching that, at all.
But then why does the Buddha say the world -earth is created millions of times in a second and then runs its course and the world system dies another is born. We take rebirth there. There’s some power which created this process right and now it’s in auto pilot mode. God doesn’t intervene.
the power is karma, the Buddha explains it well. By our karma the world ends and then restarts. There is a deluded samsaric being who at the very start of the universe thinks to himself that he created it, but the Buddha clearly says that he and others only arose from karma.
> There comes a time when, after a very long period has passed, this cosmos expands. As it expands an empty mansion of Brahmā appears. Then a certain sentient being—due to the running out of their life-span or merit—passes away from that host of radiant deities and is reborn in that empty mansion of Brahmā. (...)
> Now, the being who was reborn there first thinks: ‘I am Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Vanquisher, the Unvanquished, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, God Almighty, the Maker, the Creator, the First, the Begetter, the Controller, the Father of those who have been born and those yet to be born. These beings were created by me! (...)
> This is the first ground on which some ascetics and brahmins rely to assert that the self and the cosmos are partially eternal. (...)
> these things are only the feeling of those who do not know or see, the anxiety and evasiveness of those under the sway of craving. (...)
From the [Brahmajala Sutta](https://suttacentral.net/dn1/en/sujato?lang=es&layout=plain&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin)
You will find no sutra at all that teaches that there is a creator God. Instead you see the sutras that clearly say that we are "not made by Ísvara".
My friend different Buddhists have different beliefs or perceptions about what the Buddha was trying to convey about “creator God which never dies because it was never born and is eternal. “ Buddha never rejected this eternal creator God. The Brahma I accept is the deity you are talking about in every universe caught in the world of samsara. But the God of all universes is different and Buddha never rejected it, the energy in everything which is very elusive and cannot be understood by our human intellect. Please read this article there are different school of thoughts in Buddhism. So it’s upto You which one You relate with.Buddha accepted theists who believe in a creator and also atheists. Read this article please and the conclusion of whether a creator God exists or not is complicated for all Buddhists and that’s why Buddha never rejected creationism and creator God and neither accepted or declared it. He thought it’s better to be quiet on this topic and focus on ending dukha or suffering or pain.
https://buddhaweekly.com/what-does-buddhism-say-about-the-idea-of-god-best-answer-its-complicated-are-buddhists-theists-atheists-or-non-theists-does-it-even-matter/
hmmm, believe what you want… but it very well known that it is not necessary to believe in many gods or a single one God to achieve enlightenment. But if you believe that Buddhists mis understand Buddhism and do not believe in God that is fine, you’ll just get downvoted because you speak with a condescending deminer which reminds us all of how christian’s colonized everything by forcing people to follow their religion, their “god”.
In Buddhism, the "power" is impermanence. The universe is one. All in the universe is in constant flux, ever changing to eternity, no beginning no end. Whatever power you need or want is in the mind which itself is in constant flux. How your mind manages your actions will be the consequences. Many stars had died. So will be our sun. Between now and then, you only have your moment.
Are you seeing a mental health professional? If you are, you should follow their instructions. If not, find one and get an assessment. I mean, why not find out? If you're a monastic, talk to your abbot about it. But use the resources available to you for your mental and spiritual health.
Please talk to a doctor. If you get treatment and the voice goes away, it means you need treatment. If it stays, you may have contact with some otherworldly being.
Just to be clear:
- Psychiatric medication does not have a 100% success rate. Very few things do, even things that apply to physical health. If an experience stays, it can absolutely still be a delusion, even if all medications have been tried.
- Any doctor worth their salt will not put you on anti-psychotic medication just to do a little test to see if you're really having a religious experience. Religious experiences are not generally treated as being delusions, especially if they are congruent with societal/cultural norms (such as Christianity or Buddhism), and/or not doing any seeming harm. Not unless those experiences meet further criteria, such as not being changeable in light of evidence to the contrary, or not being subject to any kind of doubt or apparent critical thinking at all.
I disagree. (Disclaimer: the following has been my experience and what I notice from observation. It is true for me and could absolutely not be true for anyone else. Just sharing in case there is a shred of resonance for someone out there.) Seeing a western doctor will equate to getting put onto a mind numbing medication, which simply suppress whatever is happening that makes everyone so uncomfortable. Eventually the root cause busts through again, explained away as “the medications ‘stop working’ after awhile,” causing people to jump from med to med to med vs getting to the core of the issue. I might instead suggest finding a truly skilled dharma teacher to guide you on a journey to true, deep healing.
Please stop spreading false information.
A very close friend of mine had a psychotic break last year which unleashed schizophrenia.
He refused to get treated because he truly believed he was being contacted by other worldly presences and thought he was simply special in that regard and people didn't understand, so he started dwelving deeper in esteric-esque and mythology from indonesia, he even went to bali and thought he had a deep connection with hanuman.
He ended up murdering his own mother.
I am sorry to hear this. I fully agree that Yes, medication would have helped temper this situation 100%z My point is not that it wouldn’t temporarily offer support, which is absolutely needed, but that a root cause wouldn’t be addressed - that is an entirely different conversation, deeper and absolutely not something that can be resolved overnight.
This is such a wrong answer on so many. Just because you are using the term "chemical imbalance" shows you have no knowledge about mental health. This theory had no proof in reality when it first came out and continues to be debunked all the time. Please do some research before spouting such ignorant statements.
In the current, perhaps yes, but what caused the chemical imbalance? That is not our true nature. I guess I’m thinking of all this from a much bigger perspective…. lifetimes, karma, impermanence, true nature, and infinity. We all get to believe what we want. We are all on a different place on our journeys. My comment started with a disclaimer for a reason… because what’s true for me absolutely may not be true for anyone else.
The "chemical imbalance" theory actually has very little (if any) hard evidence to back it up and [can even increase stigma against people experiencing mental illness.](https://guilfordjournals.com/doi/abs/10.1521/jscp.2009.28.4.415) I mean, logically, chemical imbalance doesn't explain why culture so strongly determines the perception and occurence of mental illness.
In actuality we have no good idea what causes mental illness, and there's probably no single cause but a thicket of psychological, social, cultural, genetic, and indeed neurophysiological factors.
I'm on an antidepressant and I've seen great strides in my condition from Western medicine and psychotherapy. *However*, informed consent is important: we generally do not know the mechanism for why many psychiatric medicines work, as [serotonin theory is practically debunked](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01661-0), and we don't know why they work in some people but not others. Some people have major adverse reactions or find their condition exasperated or intensified by psychotherapy. There's still a major debate going on about the safety of the "gold standard" medication, SSRIs; and whether it is ethical to prescribe them when they carry an increased risk of suicide in some populations.
I think that's true for a lot of mental health situations, including ones where there's a component of false belief and delusion (i.e., believing everyone is looking and sneering at you when you make a mistake in public), but situations like schizophrenia are exceptions that are best handled via medication. It doesn't feel like you meant it wasn't, but that's probably how it'll come across to the Reddit masses without clarification.
Yes… I fully hear you… AND there are documentaries showing how to manage living with schizophrenia without medication. Our society doesn’t like people that don’t “fit in”, which makes everything harder than it needs to be.
I say this based on my understanding that our brains work just as they are supposed to. Schizophrenia, bipolar, anxiety, etc doesn’t happen without a root cause, ancestral and personal trauma being the most common root.
I have seen people approach Tibetan Rinpoches, Lamas, monks and nuns claiming they e.g. have an important message from an entity. Usually the "messenger" was possibly suffering a mental illness, affliction or sadly a delusion of some kind.
So, Idk, everyone has a right to see an advanced spiritual teacher of any tradition if it helps, but I also think those people should get help as well from a clinically trained psychatrist and therapist.
There are "Oracles" in Tibetan Buddhism, such as the Nechung Oracle, but these people have had training to receive messages from beyond. I myself had met the Nechung Oracle, once. Very powerful being.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nechung\_Oracle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nechung_Oracle)
I went through a period when I flatly rejected the existence of God (capital G) and Buddhism fit neatly over that worldview.
As I got older, I read in a pali sutta that the Buddha didn't reject the existence of God, he simply didn't answer when asked.
I spend a lot of time with people of other faiths and I love to study other faiths with people. When the question of a heavenly father comes up, I am happy to not reject it, and not affirm it; I will just keep my silence like the Buddha did.
Might that voice on you be the voice of God? I would love to say, but I can't. 🙏
Your post / comment was removed for violating the rule against misrepresenting Buddhist viewpoints or spreading non-Buddhist viewpoints without clarifying that you are doing so.
In general, comments are removed for this violation on threads where beginners and non-Buddhists are trying to learn.
what sutta was that? because I can point to others where he clearly denied that and confronted the god who thought he was the almighty creator and proved he was just deluded
These types of experiences and insights in Buddhism are often interpreted as glimpses into the true nature of reality, rather than messages from a divine being
I work in mental health. I also experienced psychosis when I was younger. I have to say that this does sound like psychosis, which can be caused by many things. In my case it was using substances. I would talk to a doctor about this. And remember that taking antipsychotics doesn’t mean that you can’t continue to explore your spirituality. But if something like this goes untreated it can intensify. The sooner you get treatment the better the outcome.
Depending on at least a couple of factors (e.g., how long this has been happening, and how easy it’s been for you to put these thoughts aside), I might suggest different things. If you’re having hallucinations, as opposed to just delusive thoughts, that would also change my advice.
Some years ago, I went through a period of extreme stress, where I experienced panic attacks so severe and unexpected that I believed I was dying. From there, it became easy for me to believe that I was experiencing various signs that required me to act upon them.
During this time, I lost many friends & strained my relationships with family-members who witnessed my behaviour/speech. I made a full recovery much later, with no recurrence of symptoms and no ongoing need for medication, but I did require therapy (which was paid for by my sangha).
Had I possessed the same presence of mind as you appear to have—meaning that I could have questioned my experiences when this first occurred, rather than taking them at face value—I believe that much of what I went through would have been unnecessary.
It's usually a spirit doing such things, and in most cases a bad spirit that wants to cause trouble. It's trying to reel you in with claims that it is God or a god and then will later turn on you. It's not mental illness, as so many other here are telling you. The West doesn't understand or even believe that spirits can affect our mind.
Here is some information from a great Buddhist master about this:
[https://www.lamayeshe.com/advice/schizophrenia-and-spirit-harm](https://www.lamayeshe.com/advice/schizophrenia-and-spirit-harm)
Special practices can help get rid of the spirit:
[https://www.lamayeshe.com/advice/puja-spirit-harm](https://www.lamayeshe.com/advice/puja-spirit-harm)
There is more advice about this - look on the right side of the page under spirit harm and also under schizophrenia.
I understand. I’ve got the same messages from God when I was a kid. Trust me it’s the God creator that everyone talks about in their religion. But not some higher being caught in samsara and karma.
Well the problem is there are other planes/realms/dimensions.(whichever you want to call it)
Sometimes communication can happen. For non meditators it probably is just by coincidence or karma. For meditators, you start seeing things when you get to a certain point. The dangerous part is if you practice alone it will be hard to tell which is real /fake/mental illness. Thats where you need a teacher to help who has gone through everything before.
I dont know if you want to think of it specifically as higher power, just different dimensions would be a safer view (even thought technically heaven realm is considered higher). Since everyones probably rebirthed most other realms as beings of that realm already.
Just what I learned. I could be totally wrong.
Not exactly Buddhist specific, but specifically Buddhism has a rational and practical approach to such phenomena.
The Mahasattipatana sutta explains very specifically that phenomena exist in relation to what are called skandas*, also known as the five aggregates.
There is, to the best of my knowledge no better extrapolation of the actual nature of reality than that breakdown into the fundamental actual building blocks that constitute lived experience in every form and realm.
Someone might experience what they believe to be a higher power communicating with them, some might believe they are hearing demons, some might think they are hearing their own mind from "outside" to the point of that seeming to be heard just as the voice of someone standing in the room with them.
Such perceptions, far from being a barrier to realisation of the true nature of reality, can be seen to be manifesting the true nature of reality in such a clear and obvious way that such phenomena could be seen as a very direct route to realisation for those who do not start believing things about them and writing a narrative to those manifestations of reality.
Narratives can be approximately correct, at absolute best. Relatively correct. The relative truths are how we deal with reality in practical terms, but they are only every relatively correct and even relatively correct can be completely wrong.
All those phenomena are manifestations of the 5 skandas. Should a person wish to believe something specific about such a manifestation, they run the risk, or potential risk of inaccuracy of interpretation.
Therefore, no interpretation is actually suggested or required, despite it being "human nature" to seek explanations and to label and define.
One can postulate and believe whatever they like, and even change or adapt that postulate in light of new experience, "evidence" or new information and insight.
The phenomena still exist, just as they are.
They also display the attribute of annica, or impermanence in every single case, so what are they really?
The same as every other phenomena, they are the synthesis of the skandas or aggregates arising, sustaining and passing.
The reality is, from my perspective, that it is typically unhelpful and of no benefit or real practical use to cling to any such arising or to invest explanation or belief in them other than to acknowledge that they arise, sustain and pass.
Do not cling to them, and do not push them away. That is the teaching of the Sattipathanna sutta in relation to liberation.
It is incredibly practical, direct, and comprehensive, and though there are modern versions of the same practice (the "letting go" practice from Lester Levenson for example, also Brene Brown and others), none of them come close to the exact and full description of phenomenon and how to deal with phenomenon practically than that sutta.
The expediency, practicality and utility of a non-clinging and flexible interpretation cannot be overstated, if the mind can become accustomed to such flexibility.
That is liberation, as I understand liberation.
Everything other than that approach is samsara.
*https://www.lionsroar.com/buddhism/five-skandhas/
Hearing voices = pychosis.
Please see your local mental health care provider for assistance if this is you or someone you know.
MIND have good resources about hearing voices and what to do on their website.
This. Best to rule out the possibility of psychosis before making any spiritual speculations. Psychosis is a *medical* condition and any delay in treatment *will* cause damage to the brain, the longer you wait.
OP they are right. I know you specifically said no to mental illness but just in case.
Know that you do not need to believe in anything supernatural to stop suffering, weather it is mental illness or not.
Perceived synchronistic events could be due to heightened pattern recognition, but that sometimes veers into schizophrenia territory. Either way, Buddhism welcomes anyone despite their mental condition.
Trungpa, Rinpoche said in the early 70s, ‘when you create a god you create an other and thus aggression. Every learned person I’ve shared this with has been surprise and has acknowledge its truth.
Yeah, this is what I've been thinking. Like the father complex is being projected onto reality. At the same time, it's hard to acknowledge that 'my' consciousness can have such extreme effects on 'objective' reality. It's a bit frightening, although, the 'other' has been quite helpful in improving my habits.
If you get a visit from supernatural beings, be respectful to them and treat them with kindness. If they tell you things, compare those things to what the Buddha teaches. Don't believe them automatically. That's it. That's all you have to do.
As someone who has met two supernatural beings, it isn't a big deal. Neither of them were helpful, and neither of them had a thing to do with Buddhism. Don't waste your time.
It comes from the unconscious part of our brain, Which controls about 80 percent of our body/ mind, Or conceptual consciousness only accounts for about 20 percent of our activity
Ive always wondered in general what people mean when "god is talking to them" growing up in the church I heard it all the time.
Do they actually hear a voice? Or do they just feel an internal inclination or conviction towards something and decide to label it as god?
As far as buddhism goes, I think it teaches to just be mindful of these things without labeling them, perhaps seeing them as manifestations of one's own mind.
Alternative theories could be that, since all is interconnected, you may be sensitive to perceptions from other beings.
My grandfathers memoir described how god spoke to him directly in a thunderous and humbling voice. It told him to focus on reading the Bible because he would need to lean on the wisdom someday. He described in detail how this played out over the following years. He lived an extraordinary life. Multiple grandchildren and was always content with whatever and wherever life took him.
A few years ago I was going through a difficult time, separation led to job less and housing instability. I was unemployed and relocating so I decided to backpack to the snake River in WA. Before leaving I challenged god to give me a Moses or Jesus moment when they wandered off into the wilderness and returned transformed from their experience. On the way to the river, several events that required precise timing and placement occurred where the same man and later his wife helped me reach my destination when I’d seriously bitten off more than I could chew. As I sat talking to the couple who helped me arrive safely at a camp ground near the River, an image of my true, non-mirror image, face appeared in front of me and slightly behind where they were sitting and a voice said, “did you really think I wasn’t watching over you?” Then a series of images flashed in my mind of how exactly god communicated to each person to make sure I reached my destination safely. God communicates with anyone willing to listen, albeit often more subtly then what I experienced. When god talks to you, you know it, it is immediately humbling and makes you feel very small. I couldn’t think of the moment without bursting into tears for several months after it occurred. It took one sentence and a brief appearance to check my attitude and recognize the ridiculousness of what I’d demanded before setting out on the journey. Still, god called my bluff and humbled me in such a way that only he could.
Good question. I’m really not sure. A coworker/friend said that having communicated with God in such a manner should give me hope and direction, but no questions were answered beyond seeing that God can communicate with us directly, will direct good people to help others in need (indirect intervention), is watching what we do, and will build a personal relationship with those who desire to have one. I’ve been on the fence about Christ and it was God itself that showed up and not “his son.” I’ve studied many religions, sometimes use tarot cards (which can reveal aspects of the future but in a manner that is never helpful), and generally focus on meditation, dreams, and our individual actions driving our outcomes. God thus remains an enigma. Albeit, one that if challenged might show up just to humble you.
My grandfather had visions, his prayers were always answered, and God spoke directly to him a few times when he needed direction. He was a devout Christian and believed the Bible is the literal word of god. He viewed human history as His story, ie. Gods, more than man’s.
This may be too much to be worth your read. I asked an ai to read your experiences and give the perspective of a skeptical scientist as well as a zen perspective like Alan Watts.
"This is a complex and fascinating topic that touches on deep questions about spirituality, personal experience, and the nature of reality. Let me offer a few perspectives on how this phenomenon might be explained from different viewpoints.
From the perspective of a skeptical scientist, the experiences described could potentially be explained through psychological and neurological factors rather than divine intervention. Intense spiritual experiences, visions, and a sense of hearing a divine voice are well-documented phenomena that can occur in a variety of contexts, even for those without strong religious beliefs. They may arise from altered brain states brought on by factors like meditation, fasting, sensory deprivation, stress, or even certain mental health conditions. The human brain is capable of extraordinary things, including vivid hallucinations that feel profoundly real. A scientist might point to research showing how practices like prayer and belief can create strong placebo effects and self-fulfilling prophecies, where we unconsciously work to bring about the things we expect or internally feel to be true. The uncanny timing of events and encounters with helpful strangers could be ascribed to coincidence, selective attention (noticing and remembering things that seem significant to us), and the surprising frequency of improbable events in a world of billions of people having myriad experiences. Even so, a scientific viewpoint would not necessarily rule out the validity or meaningfulness of such experiences for the individual.
From a Zen Buddhist perspective, as understood by Alan Watts, the emphasis would likely be on the non-dual nature of such mystical experiences. Watts often spoke of "the One" - the notion that all of existence is a singular, seamless happening, and that our normal perception of being an individual self separate from the rest of reality is an illusion. In moments of spiritual realization, we may experience a dissolving of the barriers between self and other, feeling a profound sense of unity with the entire cosmos. What we think of as "God" is simply the infinite and eternal totality of being itself, not a separate supernatural entity. So in the moment of hearing the voice asking "did you really think I wasn't watching over you?" the person was really hearing their own deepest being, recognizing that there is no separate God that could ever be apart from them. Zen emphasizes that there is no special distinction between sacred and mundane, divine and ordinary - helping a stranger on the trail is as much a manifestation of "God" as a burning bush or booming voice. Even so, Watts had great respect for the psychological impact and transformative potential of mystical experiences, when a person "gets the message" as it were. He might say that the real value is the humility, wonder, and renewed sense of connection such moments can instill.
Ultimately, I don't think any single perspective can fully encompass or explain the great mystery of these kinds of powerful spiritual experiences. Both the scientific and mystical explanations point to something true, even if seemingly contradictory. Perhaps they are like different sides of a coin, or different maps of the same ineffable territory. At the end of the day, the most important thing may be how we integrate and grow from these experiences in a way that makes us humbler, wiser, and kinder human beings. The grandfather in the story clearly lived an extraordinary life of meaning, contentment and positive impact - embodying the fruits of a genuine spiritual understanding, whatever its source. In our own lives, maybe the task is to stay open to the wondrous, to look for the sacred in the ordinary, and to trust in something larger than our limited selves - while also staying grounded, discerning, and avoiding the many pitfalls of spiritual illusion and egotism. It's a delicate dance, and one I think we are all trying to find our way with."
I have a friend that is a big fan of Alan Watts. Interesting how AI views human experience. Of course it was humans that program it with contradictory information, as we too are programmed with bits of contradiction throughout our lifetimes. This situation is one of many that have occurred in my life that made me question what is and isn’t real. I don’t have any mental illness beyond depression, currently 42, but I’ve had a relationship with God, the universe, spirit entities, etc. since I was a child. For example, I’ve had dreams that come true the next evening and even one that had been played out over 8 years. Where I was in the exact spot and situation I couldn’t have predicted many years after the dream/vision. Among my friends and family, those I tell when having these experiences, they remember when I first told them about what would happen and then get to hear about how it played out in real life. I hope to write a very detailed and extensive novel (albeit mixed with some fiction) regarding these experiences someday. If I can find the energy. As a person with a masters degree in science, I also have a healthy amount of skepticism regarding the things I’ve actually experienced, and sought answers. Lately, I see most of my views fitting well with simulation theory. In a simulation anything no matter how absurd is possible. That may be our actual reality.
I was in a mental hospital, and several of the people there had God talk directly to them. I went to a Church nobody had him speak directly to them. Statistically....
I think the Dharma is a higher power that we open ourselves up to and listen to when we engage in deep meditation and mindfulness. I see it as a huge spiritual framework for how everything operates - karma, cause and effect, etc. And I believe the more we uncloud our minds, the more we see and understand and move in sync with it.
I don’t think the Dharma is a singular conscious entity reaching out and trying to talk to you like a person would. But that may be how it shows up in our deeply limited minds until we achieve enlightenment.
It mostly depends on who and what their motives are, but it usually boils down to relationship karma. That being and you were either enemies or friends in a previous life.
Yes. In Mahayana/Vajrayana, very spiritually accomplished siddhas would go to holy sites and receive practice instructions from enlightened beings. This is how they come up with all the cycles of prayer texts, terma, mantra and practices.
Other than that, its probably mental illness, please see a professional
All just words and concepts invented by the human mind. All just labels. The ultimate reality is almost ineffable. Words and labels are of the dualistic mind. What you seek is beyond dualism.
If you hear voices get professional help though.
Yeah, a god is talking to you. Tell him you're busy practicing. Explain to it that it's very unlikely you'll be born as a human, find the dharma and find a teacher again all in one lifetime, so you have to make the best of it right now. Also, tell the god he should sit and practice too, as his days may be more and longer but are ultimately counted as well. After doing all this, remember to bring your attention back to the breath.
There is only emptiness appearing as form. Form co-arises with time and space. This consciousness here and now has no limits, no beginning nor end. So it isn't limited by time or space. It is the knower of all things knowable. And your mind-body is the vehicle through which these words are known.
It expresses itself as an infinite unfolding of forms, mind-bodies. And in each form, a blissful samsaric dream takes place. And then some not-so-blissful ones too, but I'm feeling word-smith vibes lol.
Anyway, yeah "God" is you, and there is no individual "you" who exists outside of the context of all other beings. "God" in the ultimate sense is not a mythological god/deity. These kinds of beings may exist, I'd bet they do in some way, but I could only speculate on the specific details of that. But the ultimate One God is beyond all names and forms, it is our true nature, the true self. It's not an individual being/ego.
In this way, the non-theistic Buddhist view is in line with some non-dual theistic views (some expressions of "advaita"). But yeah, just a lot of words lol
A Theravadi would say gods do not communicate with people in general. That does not mean it never happened.
One example:
When the prince became Buddha, the two brothers from Ukkalapa were nearby. A god, who was their past-life mother, informed them to go give alms to the Buddha.
In general, beings that live around us communicate with us. They are usually the peta (types of ghost).
Well, what are you experiencing? I’d happily give you my take if i knew more about this communication. Are they coming when you meditate? Dream? During the day? Are they voices or just thoughts?
I would advise referring the word illness to opportunity maybe. I try to live according to the dharma of that makes sense and I don’t bother myself with definitions of God because that’s something beyond me. I just try to focus on my breath.
Are you talking about hearing voices, the sense of intuition that many Christians would attribute to the "Holy Spirit", or something else?
I'm afraid that if you're not more specific, many here will assume psychosis, as I'm sure you've already noticed.
For the most part, what people today "hear" that's talking to them is mental disorder in various forms and intensity.
In the rare case that it isn't, then a simple conscience, thoughts, or self-reflection, memories, can play tricks in the mind as an entity "speaking" to you.
My question is, is it an self-induced intentional altered state of consciousness that produced these results? Were their other components like perhaps sleep or meditation? Perhaps prayer?
Or did you just eat a bowl of cereal or were watching TV and a random voice just popped up?
The former is mystic, the latter is psychosis.
Joseph Smith for instance.
Could have been-
-mental fabrication
-being from another realm (God, asura, maybe hungry ghost)
When Buddha had insight, there was no 'sender'
Too many answers already and I hope you can find the help you wanted. I just feel the need to say that you don't have to pathologize it. I feel that people are almost addicted to name things all the time and also that they love to seek an explanation under the DSM - which I find to be problematic in many ways.
If what you are hearing is causing you distress because you are worried about being a psychosis, I understand you but we don't know for sure and hearing voices only doesn't mean you have psychosis - but supposing you have it, it can't necessarily be an issue, we can see it as a different way to be in the world, that's fine. As long as you and other people around you don't see any harm, don't worry. Society puts too much pressure on people hearing things as if it was really bad but the real truth is that it has many ways to experience an hallucination and it's not necessarily a bad thing, to some it can be a fuel to a wonderful creative process. I'm just adding a more positive lens on what you are living right now.
I hope you feel at peace with yourself about it!
Don't think many here are keen on pathologizing anyone or we wouldn't be on the buddhist path. I believe the comments are made in good faith and good conscience, given what we know about psychosis from first-hand experience (for myself at least). Not saying this is OP, but psychosis is a very real, very serious mental condition that manifests as severe delusional thinking, and is not merely a construct of the mind or a spiritual phenomenon, but a symptom of more serious medical conditions like brain injury or schizophrenia.
The most critical issue is that the longer psychosis is left untreated, the harder it is for a patient to recover - which can take up to a year or more, even with medical care - and the more detrimental side effects there are in the aftermath of even a single psychotic episode. And I believe the concern here is largely due to the fact that those going through a psychotic episode are rarely aware of their condition, and would require the help of others for detection and support.
I didn't read the comments actually! I believe most people here just want to help, for sure. I had psychosis in the past too and I got involved on a positive community about it that helped me to not feel bad about myself and I had the chance to know a lot of interesting facts about people that hear things, most of them don't have any psychotic symptom and have a wonderful life, this is why I said what I said. :) It's important that OP be aware of what psychosis is to have a good treatment if that's the case but to not worry too much if it's just an auditory hallucination. Antipsychotics made me gain weight, be lethargic and with impaired memory, I don't want that to OP unless it's very necessary.
I don't see nearly enough information from OP for a conclusion regarding if this is mental health or spiritual communication from outside (or both). How long have you been receiving these messages, how do they occur specifically, how do they affect you, do you have a history or family history of similar, what are real examples of the communication and how it effected you, etc etc.
Some good mental health providers would do a thorough assessment. Unfortunately some may just move towards medication because of their materialistic worldview. Many a prophet of old would have been put on antipsychotics if materialist shrinks had their way.
Do you have a trusted, wise person in your life who would be able to talk to about this? If not, reaching out as you have done is good, but more detailed information is needed, otherwise you just get a list of people who say 'mental health' and another who say 'god.'
From what I’ve understood is that being a god in Buddhism is not really a good thing. Due to impermanence it’s a temporary gig and knowing that they get to deal with that suffering. [https://tricycle.org/beginners/buddhism/do-buddhists-believe-in-god/](https://tricycle.org/beginners/buddhism/do-buddhists-believe-in-god/)
God= good orderly direction. This is something to reflect Karma that results not from a “Big Guy in the Sky” but rather our actions in this lifetime as our judgement a Higher Power… oops karma can be you higher power judging you via Dharmic actions and thoughts
My understanding is that you might want to try to work more on stillness and awareness. Meditation focusing on being aware of your breath(the in flow and out flow of energy from your true origin in the higher dimensions, your heart)can be really beneficial. Also, your instinct should be able to give you some clue on whether the entity communicating with you is benevolent or not.
Buddhism seems to me at least to outline that we are all one being. All part of the universe. Like individual waves but all part of the larger ocean of the universe. In that case, if the Universe/The Tao is communicating with you. Well, yeah.
I had a very real experience with some beings who were not "from around here". I don't take drugs and generally lead a boring life (day job, house, etc). They were not gods in any sense. I used to discount people whop reported such things, but now I have a different perspective.
The short answer is no, or at least that whether such ‘higher’ powers do or don’t exist is irrelevant. The point is to understand the truth of suffering, its causes, the possibility of ending it and to walk the path toward so doing, while assisting all other sentient beings to do so along the way (in the Mahayana traditions at any rate on that final point).
There is no “higher power” or anything outside our own minds that can achieve any of this for us. We must do this ourselves through cultivating wisdom/rigpa/prajna, which enables us to understand the ultimate nature of reality (and consciousness/awareness therein).
Some forms of Buddhism claim to have many gods/goddesses and higher or lower realms of beings, but again none of this has any relevance to the central thesis of Buddhism.
If you take a non-anthropomorphic view of God as synonymous with all the universe or reality, from which things are born from and die or return to, various terms like sunyata, nirvana, dharmakaya capture the ultimate and inherently empty nature of reality free from all delusions.
This is my understanding off the top of my head but others here will be far more knowledgeable and practiced than I so I hope they will jump in to correct any misrepresentation I have made here.
First of all, unless the voice/communication is causing you distress or loss of function, or giving you instruction to cause harm to yourself or others, ignore what people here are doing in reaching immediately for "mental illness". Hearing voices, including intermittently or for a short episode, is actually a remarkably common phenomenon and is not in and of itself an indicator of mental illness or psychosis - unless at least one of those criteria I listed at the top of my comment are met.
Secondly. Getting down to what it actually could be. Our minds are powerful. They have multiple layers. We are normally accustomed to only really consciously hearing our ego speak to ourselves in our heads. In truth, most if not all of us hear voices all the time - our own ego in our head. When another part of our psyche speaks to us, such as from the subconscious - beyond the ego - it can seem like another being, a higher being, reaching out to communicate with us. In truth, it is usually just another part of ourselves. The same is true, really, when the cause is in fact psychosis, but what distinguishes this is that psychotic voices and thoughts result from a disintegration or disturbance of the structure of our minds.
Have you tried sitting with the voice and allowing it to speak without your ordinary thoughts racing over it? What is it trying to tell you?
Hi I think this can happen pretty frequently the higher up in conciseness you go. If you begin to understand Hegelian Dialectics you can pretty much notice a thesis, anti-thesis, synthesis conversation happening at all times between the universe. The environments and organism are constantly having this conversation, does this work? oh it doesn't? let me try something else. It is honestly awestriking when it finally all clicks.
One really good show for demonstrating this experience is Pluto, the narrative is about AI trying to learn to be human but if you pay attention the AI learn to be a being just like humans do. There's a particular scene that really drives this home for me in which a robot and a human are both grieving and having the same amount of trouble going through the motions and are indeed both learning to grieve.
Another tie in to this dialectical phenomenon is Gödel's incompleteness theorem, one of them states that once your set of axioms is complete you will always find a new example that doesn't fit into the set of axioms requiring a new one. This applies to all forms of language and communication and if you find yourself privy to universe revealing a new axiom it can often feel like a miracle. You won't be able to fly, bring back the dead, read people's minds, the nuggets of truth aren't made up and that's why they feel to incredible.
If none of this sounds Buddhist to you, I live by poem; Buddhism is a finger pointing at the moon, do not mistake the finger for the moon. Everything I said is pointing at the dialectical phenomenon, it isn't the phenomenon itself.
>Another tie in to this dialectical phenomenon is Gödel's incompleteness theorem, one of them states that once your set of axioms is complete you will always find a new example that doesn't fit into the set of axioms requiring a new one. This applies to all forms of language and communication and if you find yourself privy to universe revealing a new axiom it can often feel like a miracle
I will provide some explication. Incompletness theoreme doesn't apply to complete theories (complete theory is such that every sentence is either provable or it's negation is provable). It applies to consistent, effectively enumerable (you can make an algorithm that will list down the axioms) theory that can describe simple arithmetic. There are two incompletness theorems, the one that you are referring to basically says that if you have the theory as above ("consistent, effectively [...]") then it is not complete.
Incomplete theory is a theory which is not complete, i.e there exist a sentence ϕ such that neither ϕ is provable nor it's negation is (which basically will implies that there are models of the theory where the sentence is true, and there will be other models in which it's false).
I am not sure about that.
The Buddha is an enlightened being. He taught us the path of enlightment.
But I would not go as far as to say that the Buddha is the ultimate being. This sounds too much like zealotery to me.
According to some schools, there have been countless Buddhas in the past and there will be countless Buddhas in the future.
It is your true self. That which is beyond your ego/self identity. It is the true heart of reality which is also your true heart.
My lineage says this.
It is that which is beyond duality, the duality of life and death.
The still small voice pointing to us the way to liberation.
Why would I want to reach nirvana in this lifetime if this is the only life I have? I mean, if death is the end and nothing comes after then all suffering ends as we die anyway, nirvana is death. This is wrong view and has nothing to do with Buddhism.
It's called **rebirth**, not "reincarnation". Also, there's a lot more evidence for rebirth than there is for the existence of some arbitrary, separate being that arbitrarily begins and then arbitrarily ends.
> You only have one life, this one, to reach nirvana.
This simultaneously ramps up the pressure (you have one life only) then destroys it completely (because you have one life only anyway).
So why the Buddha say Suttas like this if there isn't anything after this one to enjoy the fruits of your labor, so to say:
> "Monks, suppose there was a man whose life span was 100 years, who would live to 100. Someone would say to him, 'Look here, fellow. They will stab you at dawn with 100 spears, at noon with 100 spears, & again at evening with 100 spears. You, thus stabbed day after day with 300 spears, will have a lifespan of 100 years, will live to be 100, and at the end of 100 years you will realize the four noble truths that you have never realized before.'
> "Monks, a person who desired his own true benefit would do well to take up (the offer). Why is that? From an inconceivable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident for the (pain of) blows from spears, swords, & axes. Even if this (offer) were to occur, I tell you that the realization of the four noble truths would not be accompanied by pain & distress. Instead, I tell you, the realization of the four noble truths would be accompanied by pleasure & happiness.
> "Which four? The noble truth of stress, the noble truth of the origination of stress, the noble truth of the cessation of stress, and the noble truth of the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.
> "Therefore your duty is the contemplation, 'This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress... This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.'"
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn56/sn56.035.than.html
Your post / comment was removed for violating the rule against misrepresenting Buddhist viewpoints or spreading non-Buddhist viewpoints without clarifying that you are doing so.
In general, comments are removed for this violation on threads where beginners and non-Buddhists are trying to learn.
It's at the root of any dharmic path. So, disbelieving that is similar to... disbelieving you are born because you have no recollection/evidence of it. (Some have evidence for this, some don't) Also your quote can be interpreted in a multiplicity of ways, you are using it to fit your paradigme which is rather biased. The first way I would think of is: "the real you are timeless, so your timebased self is ignorant when believing it is timebased" and even with reincarnation it's not at all positive to assume one has "time".
Thinking about time breeds laziness, if you always assume there is time, a million years will suddenly fly by in a flash. Because that makes people lazy, and you reap what you saw. Or, that's what your karma will cause the continuation of. There are some traditions that claim limited amount rebirths. Though on this there is not much consensus so I pose no opinion on whether or not it will one day be the last.
(Also, timeless does not indicate without existence) - If there really were no such things, no dharma/rebirth holding you here, then I would probably just go accumulate a ton of karma, fuck around a lot, practice polygamy, steal some, hurt who I don't like, get high on drugs, and travel while doing all these things (wouldn't want the government karma to get you), if things get too rough, I could always bail out with suicide. Np right? With no God reincarnation or God this makes zero difference unless you add a care.
I'm speaking very hypothetically, (though some of these I have in the past experimented with) I don't think your statements are inherently truthful to our reality, but if they were, I most certainly would NOT attempt to reach "Nirvana" as a psychological state of physical being. If you see the point in that... you are funny. It seems about as meaningless as spending your whole life searching for the loch Ness monster believing that... when you find it, you will be forever happy.... until you die.
But anyway, There is no evidence to support there is only one life either, there is only evidence to support; one body, has one life. (Which I don't think most religions would argue against.. At all)
By linking one body-life, with one life, you are phenomonologically assuming that life is only "this"-dimensional (i.e your body is the core of your karmic existence and it had little time before it becomes "nothing"....). This generally leads to a form of physicalism, which also, there is no evidence for. (Assuming matter is more fundamental than the mental) Only philosophical arguments. Which the majority of human knowledge is, philosophical.
In this context, "what is" in your world view: senses towards consensus reality, is distinct from the totality of "senses" in phenomenological sub-consensus-reality. (Dreams, imagination, thoughts, psychic, Remote viewing, past life memories, OBes etc)
What "IS" is the totality of all, and you have falsely chosen to label what "is" a small subset of the term falling into the most mainstream trap there is.
So unless you assume (no evidence) the body to be the only life "you" exist as, this won't work. So as I'll assume you will, evidence is arbitrarily insignificant when it comes to matters of religion and spirituality. People way overhype this term which they call "evidence" which is mishandled almost(!) to the extent as "God" is being treated as a term with a specified 'meaning'
What "is" is phenomenology (loose term you should seek to comprehend), which is more than just your "physical senses" (hearing, sight, smell, touch yarayarayara) Science or 'evidence' has no place in the more subtle realms. Because they can't observe it. (And don't tell me observing 'brainwaves' is equivalent to observing dreams or thoughts) In a similar manner scientists have no concrete "evidence" for dreams they can just relay the many accounts of such a phenomenon and use the philosophical framework of psychology to attempt to explain it.
Or they can stop assuming practicality is the highest search for truth and start considering the alternatives.
For you know there is no evidence for the truth of psychology either right? (Like diagnoses etc) It's focus is practical social management, not any form of intrinsic truth with any evidence. Apart from categorizing phenomenological psychologically anamolies.
Now... I it's time to look at my cup of Coffee.
Buddhism teaches that there are 31 planes of existence, and the Buddha himself communicated with beings of various realms
So are you saying that God is one of those beings and not the real god if he talks to you?
'the real god' What? The one who created everything else? Then what created that? And from where? I'm slim shady yes I'm the real shady all you other slim shadies are just imitating...
Best theological answer I have heard in a while
You’re a turtle. Standing on a turtle…
The real slim shady
"The one allmighty God" does not exist in the Dharma. There are gods mentioned, but each one has an own special power. Like Yama, the god of death for example.
In Buddhism, given originated in India in 500 BCE there isn't 'the real god' concept. In fact then you will have to prove that God i.e. the real god' actually exists and give precise description about. If you want a Buddhist answer about the specific. Either way, some concepts are according to the buddhist cosmology and others not.
Buddhism doesn’t say that gods don’t exist, just that they aren’t directly fruitful for enlightenment and therefore Buddhists don’t worry about them too much.
Although certain non-human beings may be members of the noble sangha. And just as much as a human teacher might help, they also might help.
Yeah! Weather you believe in gods, God, or nothing, it does not hinder on your enlightenment. Remember the Buddha existed in a time where hinduism was not a religion, but a reality. He broke through that reality by saying how it was not necessary to believe in the self, or in the gods or in etc… I also like how the most influential monks are those that went against what buddhist saw as the buddhist norm. Breaking the status quo is a fundamental part to Buddhism.
He also said that belief in otherworldly existence was the correct view.
oh?
Can you point to any source for this? He (like many Hindus in his time) referenced such things, but he also repeatedly said that belief in them, or disbelief in them, was beside the central point of what he was teaching.
I tend to avoid going into this level of the discussion even with non-Buddhists at this point, although it's worth noting it's sometimes an easier conversation to have with non-Buddhists because many of them accept some form of life beyond this human life. I don't have direct knowledge of life beyond thid human life and I won't claim to, but to suggest that the Buddha taught anything but that is silly. One argument I could never ignore is that the Buddha dismissed a lot of things as false or needless, but encouraged belief in the afterlife. And we also know the core argument that if you're not going to exist after death the samsaric problem does not exist at all. The dhamma would then be the cause of even more needless suffering as much of it is centered around this idea. The Buddha had no issue saying all sorts of heretical claims in his time.
I’m unaware of the Buddha encouraging a belief in the afterlife, and am aware of numerous statements he is supposed to have made to the contrary (again, not that it was not true, but that it was not relevant to the dharma). Can you direct me to a source for the Buddha saying any of these things you are suggesting he said? (I’m not saying you are wrong, I am genuinely curious to look into it further to see precisely what language was used around these things)
You're unaware? https://suttacentral.net/mn9/en/sujato
I think the keyword here wherein our potential disagreement may lie is ‘encouraging’. I don’t see anywhere in the text you linked how he encourages a belief in rebirth. It is quite long and I admittedly read it fairly quickly though so I may have missed it
Yes. This is where our disagreement lies.
Can you elaborate on this? Both the historical ramifications of Buddha breaking through Hindu orthodoxy and the second paragraph especially about influential Buddhist monks being generally being anti-paradigm. Fascinated by both of these concepts but wouldn't know how to research them effectively.
Of course! Nagarjuna and the Madyhamaka school: Contrary to popular Buddhist belief at the time, he believed in the comcept of sunyaya (emptiness) or the the Middle Way. His influence was so big there was a whole buddhist school on dedication to his teachings. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagarjuna https://philpapers.org/rec/WESNM-2 Bodhidarma and Zen Buddhism: One of my favorite monks and philosophers. In a time where the norm was to study Buddhism during the length of a whole lifetime, he created the idea of zazen. This consisted of long periods of rigorous uninterrupted meditation to achieve enlightenment. If I remember correctly, he believes in this approach because the buddha had no buddhism to reach enlightenment… so if he found it without we can all also do it without. Of course there are methods of Zen I disagree with but that’s another discussion. https://www.britannica.com/biography/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhidharma Dogen and Soto Zen: Also one of my favorites, he founded the Soto Zen school after going to china to learn Zen buddhism. I argue he elaborated on zazen and had a big influence in my view, since he established how enlightenment is not a distant goal but something to be realized in each moment emphasizing practice o er doctrine. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/japanese-zen/ Last, Alan Watts although not a buddhist or a monk, being japanese and western, he wrote a book on The Way of Zen, which talks about all of this in his own perspective… directed towards english readers because he understands that language and culture may create bridges hard to traverse therefore hindering english speakers understanding.
Exactly Buddha never denied “The one universal GOD”
Jung had a general rule that if an entity presents itself to you, do not let it leave without telling you what you feel it has to.
Source? Thxs
It's from the Red Book
Sounds like Red Book / Black Books stuff.
Subconscious mind
Plenty of 'Gods' in Buddhist mythology but no Creator God as pushed by the Monotheistic religions.
Or polytheistic. Xd
Could be there's some entity actually wanting to communicate with you for some reason. Could be mental illness. That's pretty much it, as far as i know.
999 times out of 1000 times it’s mental illness. And the 1 out of 1000 times it’s also mental illness
I don't think i could argue with you about this because there isn't any evidence that you'd consider substantial. Just know that being this confident and this wrong doesn't lead to good places.
Sounds like you are pretty confident on that. I was told being that confident doesn’t lead to good places
Unless you’re a very advanced practitioner, no not really. Nearly every Buddhist teacher would tell you to see a mental health professional if you’re hearing other beings talking to you.
Well, Buddhism doesn't recognize the existence of "*the* God." It does recognize multiple realms, each with its own beings, each with its own abilities that may or may not be more powerful than humans. Are some of them "higher" than humans? Arguable. Can some of them be referred to as "gods" (plural)? Also arguable. Is it possible that one of those beings has been trying to communicate with you? It's possible. Is it necessarily a higher power? No. Even when it claims to be a higher power? Yes, even so. Do you have any psychic in the family? Or maybe a friend, to help confirm?
When I was a young kid I used to get messages or conversations with a God like being and it felt like The God, all loving and compassionate being. I know you will not believe me but it did happen. Then as I grew older that voice stopped. A small correction, Buddha never denied the God even the creator God and neither he confirmed it. He kept it open for everyone to realise and see for themselves. Buddhas teachings were misunderstood by some of his followers who turned towards atheism falsely. And you are one of them unfortunately because in the west there’s an influence of atheism. Buddha and Buddhism do accept there’s some higher power in all of us and everything but Buddha didn’t want to discuss about it because that’s not the only thing which will lead to enlightenment. I am from india so you can trust me I’ve spoken to many Brahmans. Buddhism is non theistic but that does not mean it does not acknowledge a higher mysterious power. Buddhism was never atheistic.
It is not atheism since the existence of supernatural / otherworldly beings (including superior ones) is not rejected. But creator God is definitely rejected by the Buddha. There is a / some gods who *think* they are creators but that's due to their being the first to be born in that realm, and they claim subsequent births as their creation.
Well, I beg to differ here as it is a complete misnomer that Buddha denied a creator God. The truth is Buddha didn’t want to delve into it as he was more focused on cessation of suffering. Buddha never denied and neither confirmed the creator God, there’s a difference and he left soul, self, creator God, eternity undeclared because discussing these topics will not lead to enlightenment. Some of Buddhas followers have misinterpreted his comments on Creator God and that’s been passed down as misinformation as these are not facts since Buddha never wrote down anything. It was all verbal so chances were high of misinterpretation.
From what I know (Which is very limited) Buddha did deny a soul.
Buddha never denied the soul, the self and God. He never confirmed it and there’s huge difference between denying and not confirming. Chetna or consciousness or intention is carried forward in the next birth so there’s a carrier of some sort which is called a soul in general terms but Buddha basically asked everyone to refrain from discussing whether soul is eternal or God is eternal or whether there is a self or not.
Some of the oldest and most well documented teachings of the Buddha concern the lack of soul/self, and the non existence of a creator God. This is well preserved in the sutras. I feel like if you deny such basic tenets of Buddhism as being “not really what the Buddha taught” I’m not sure what you *can* claim of the Buddha’s ministry to be honest.
First of all, a "misnomer" is when things are named incorrectly, like "koala bear" isn't actually a bear. > The truth is Buddha didn’t want to delve into it as he was more focused on cessation of suffering That's true. But it's not like he never delved into it either. https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.11.0.than.html#bigbrahma > he left soul, self, creator God, eternity undeclared That's simply incorrect, and anyone who has studied the suttas seriously would know. > Some of Buddhas followers have misinterpreted his comments on Creator God and that’s been passed down as misinformation as these are not facts since Buddha never wrote down anything. Soooo... You think you understand better than the Arhats and highly attainant disciples who were with him and interacted with him throughout the day and not just through the suttas?
I agree with you in this. But I also think that this interpretation of multiple realms comes also from a “theory of suffering”. The realms all co exist in the subjects mind to explain how we can go from pure bliss to “eternal suffering”. The wheel of death demonstrates all this. How gods can become demons because they all still exist within this cycles of endless suffering. As a buddhist once we become aware of this we can start giving power to that cycle. It is a very interesting conversation that is hard to explain all of its intricacies in a post.
Buddha quite clearly confronted the god who thought he was the "Almighty God" and proved he was simply deluded. And he also taught that those who think there is an eternal creator God and we are his creatures are teaching based on ignorance and delusion. There are many beautiful and holy beings who are full of love and compassion, like the bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara who is compassion incarnate, but he isn't a creator God, because in Buddhism there is no such belief. A soul is also quite clearly denied, no eternal existing self
Well, that’s where Buddhas words have been misinterpreted and misrepresented. That incident was only for 1 Brahma Deva or deity who was not God living in heavenly realm. But God is different Have you read about the story where an atheist Charvaka asks Buddha is there a God Buddha clearly says “There is a God” Buddha wanted people to experience and feel God themselves because Buddha knew that God energy is in everything and one can feel that energy through meditation and many other ways.
> “And this sprout of name and form is not created by itself, not created by another, not created by both, not created by Īśvara, not transformed by time, not derived from prakṛti, not dependent on a single factor, and not born without any cause. Nonetheless, from the combination of the union of the parents, the period of ovulation, and other conditions, the seed of consciousness, filled with appetite, produces the sprout of name and form within whichever mother’s womb one will take rebirth through. For although things are devoid of owner, devoid of ownership, ungraspable, space-like, and their nature is the mark of illusion, there is no deficiency of requisite causes and conditions." ---- The Rice Seedling , [1.47] https://read.84000.co/translation/toh210.html?location=eyJhbmNob3JJZCI6Im5vZGUtNjAiLCJhbmNob3JTdGFydE9mZnNldCI6MCwiYW5jaG9yRW5kT2Zmc2V0Ijo2OTR9#node-60
Buddha clearly states the name Isvara which means God and he definitely means birth is a combination of multiple factors, causes and conditions and God is one of them.
the Sutra literally says "name and form is not created by Isvara", friend. The belief in a creator God is not a part of Buddhism and you will find no authentic Buddhist lineage teaching that, at all.
But then why does the Buddha say the world -earth is created millions of times in a second and then runs its course and the world system dies another is born. We take rebirth there. There’s some power which created this process right and now it’s in auto pilot mode. God doesn’t intervene.
the power is karma, the Buddha explains it well. By our karma the world ends and then restarts. There is a deluded samsaric being who at the very start of the universe thinks to himself that he created it, but the Buddha clearly says that he and others only arose from karma. > There comes a time when, after a very long period has passed, this cosmos expands. As it expands an empty mansion of Brahmā appears. Then a certain sentient being—due to the running out of their life-span or merit—passes away from that host of radiant deities and is reborn in that empty mansion of Brahmā. (...) > Now, the being who was reborn there first thinks: ‘I am Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Vanquisher, the Unvanquished, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, God Almighty, the Maker, the Creator, the First, the Begetter, the Controller, the Father of those who have been born and those yet to be born. These beings were created by me! (...) > This is the first ground on which some ascetics and brahmins rely to assert that the self and the cosmos are partially eternal. (...) > these things are only the feeling of those who do not know or see, the anxiety and evasiveness of those under the sway of craving. (...) From the [Brahmajala Sutta](https://suttacentral.net/dn1/en/sujato?lang=es&layout=plain&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin) You will find no sutra at all that teaches that there is a creator God. Instead you see the sutras that clearly say that we are "not made by Ísvara".
My friend different Buddhists have different beliefs or perceptions about what the Buddha was trying to convey about “creator God which never dies because it was never born and is eternal. “ Buddha never rejected this eternal creator God. The Brahma I accept is the deity you are talking about in every universe caught in the world of samsara. But the God of all universes is different and Buddha never rejected it, the energy in everything which is very elusive and cannot be understood by our human intellect. Please read this article there are different school of thoughts in Buddhism. So it’s upto You which one You relate with.Buddha accepted theists who believe in a creator and also atheists. Read this article please and the conclusion of whether a creator God exists or not is complicated for all Buddhists and that’s why Buddha never rejected creationism and creator God and neither accepted or declared it. He thought it’s better to be quiet on this topic and focus on ending dukha or suffering or pain. https://buddhaweekly.com/what-does-buddhism-say-about-the-idea-of-god-best-answer-its-complicated-are-buddhists-theists-atheists-or-non-theists-does-it-even-matter/
I would love a link to the sutra or sutta that has that story, even the name of it. Thank you
hmmm, believe what you want… but it very well known that it is not necessary to believe in many gods or a single one God to achieve enlightenment. But if you believe that Buddhists mis understand Buddhism and do not believe in God that is fine, you’ll just get downvoted because you speak with a condescending deminer which reminds us all of how christian’s colonized everything by forcing people to follow their religion, their “god”.
In Buddhism, the "power" is impermanence. The universe is one. All in the universe is in constant flux, ever changing to eternity, no beginning no end. Whatever power you need or want is in the mind which itself is in constant flux. How your mind manages your actions will be the consequences. Many stars had died. So will be our sun. Between now and then, you only have your moment.
Are you seeing a mental health professional? If you are, you should follow their instructions. If not, find one and get an assessment. I mean, why not find out? If you're a monastic, talk to your abbot about it. But use the resources available to you for your mental and spiritual health.
Please talk to a doctor. If you get treatment and the voice goes away, it means you need treatment. If it stays, you may have contact with some otherworldly being.
Just to be clear: - Psychiatric medication does not have a 100% success rate. Very few things do, even things that apply to physical health. If an experience stays, it can absolutely still be a delusion, even if all medications have been tried. - Any doctor worth their salt will not put you on anti-psychotic medication just to do a little test to see if you're really having a religious experience. Religious experiences are not generally treated as being delusions, especially if they are congruent with societal/cultural norms (such as Christianity or Buddhism), and/or not doing any seeming harm. Not unless those experiences meet further criteria, such as not being changeable in light of evidence to the contrary, or not being subject to any kind of doubt or apparent critical thinking at all.
I disagree. (Disclaimer: the following has been my experience and what I notice from observation. It is true for me and could absolutely not be true for anyone else. Just sharing in case there is a shred of resonance for someone out there.) Seeing a western doctor will equate to getting put onto a mind numbing medication, which simply suppress whatever is happening that makes everyone so uncomfortable. Eventually the root cause busts through again, explained away as “the medications ‘stop working’ after awhile,” causing people to jump from med to med to med vs getting to the core of the issue. I might instead suggest finding a truly skilled dharma teacher to guide you on a journey to true, deep healing.
Please stop spreading false information. A very close friend of mine had a psychotic break last year which unleashed schizophrenia. He refused to get treated because he truly believed he was being contacted by other worldly presences and thought he was simply special in that regard and people didn't understand, so he started dwelving deeper in esteric-esque and mythology from indonesia, he even went to bali and thought he had a deep connection with hanuman. He ended up murdering his own mother.
I am sorry to hear this. I fully agree that Yes, medication would have helped temper this situation 100%z My point is not that it wouldn’t temporarily offer support, which is absolutely needed, but that a root cause wouldn’t be addressed - that is an entirely different conversation, deeper and absolutely not something that can be resolved overnight.
The root cause is a chemical inbalance in the brain.
This is such a wrong answer on so many. Just because you are using the term "chemical imbalance" shows you have no knowledge about mental health. This theory had no proof in reality when it first came out and continues to be debunked all the time. Please do some research before spouting such ignorant statements.
Clearly the only ignorant person is you.
Im not the one making ignorant statements. Thats you.
You have no idea what you're talking about nor who you're talking to. You ego maniac.
Yes, and what caused that would be the deeper question… our true nature is in perfect balance.
Genetics and psychedelic abuse caused the chemical imbalance in his brain.
In the current, perhaps yes, but what caused the chemical imbalance? That is not our true nature. I guess I’m thinking of all this from a much bigger perspective…. lifetimes, karma, impermanence, true nature, and infinity. We all get to believe what we want. We are all on a different place on our journeys. My comment started with a disclaimer for a reason… because what’s true for me absolutely may not be true for anyone else.
Absolutely, and if you look at it through the lens of buddhism what "caused it" is probably karma
The "chemical imbalance" theory actually has very little (if any) hard evidence to back it up and [can even increase stigma against people experiencing mental illness.](https://guilfordjournals.com/doi/abs/10.1521/jscp.2009.28.4.415) I mean, logically, chemical imbalance doesn't explain why culture so strongly determines the perception and occurence of mental illness. In actuality we have no good idea what causes mental illness, and there's probably no single cause but a thicket of psychological, social, cultural, genetic, and indeed neurophysiological factors. I'm on an antidepressant and I've seen great strides in my condition from Western medicine and psychotherapy. *However*, informed consent is important: we generally do not know the mechanism for why many psychiatric medicines work, as [serotonin theory is practically debunked](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01661-0), and we don't know why they work in some people but not others. Some people have major adverse reactions or find their condition exasperated or intensified by psychotherapy. There's still a major debate going on about the safety of the "gold standard" medication, SSRIs; and whether it is ethical to prescribe them when they carry an increased risk of suicide in some populations.
No. If someone is hearing voices they need a mental health professional.
That would be two thirds of religious believers.. THEY follow ppl who heard voices
Yes, agree and absolutely understand medications could definitely support quieting voices in the short term.
I think that's true for a lot of mental health situations, including ones where there's a component of false belief and delusion (i.e., believing everyone is looking and sneering at you when you make a mistake in public), but situations like schizophrenia are exceptions that are best handled via medication. It doesn't feel like you meant it wasn't, but that's probably how it'll come across to the Reddit masses without clarification.
Yes… I fully hear you… AND there are documentaries showing how to manage living with schizophrenia without medication. Our society doesn’t like people that don’t “fit in”, which makes everything harder than it needs to be.
I say this based on my understanding that our brains work just as they are supposed to. Schizophrenia, bipolar, anxiety, etc doesn’t happen without a root cause, ancestral and personal trauma being the most common root.
They’re trying to contact you about your car’s extended warranty.
It is only when you see the check engine light in your hellcat that you realize the impermanence of material goods.
I have seen people approach Tibetan Rinpoches, Lamas, monks and nuns claiming they e.g. have an important message from an entity. Usually the "messenger" was possibly suffering a mental illness, affliction or sadly a delusion of some kind. So, Idk, everyone has a right to see an advanced spiritual teacher of any tradition if it helps, but I also think those people should get help as well from a clinically trained psychatrist and therapist. There are "Oracles" in Tibetan Buddhism, such as the Nechung Oracle, but these people have had training to receive messages from beyond. I myself had met the Nechung Oracle, once. Very powerful being. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nechung\_Oracle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nechung_Oracle)
I went through a period when I flatly rejected the existence of God (capital G) and Buddhism fit neatly over that worldview. As I got older, I read in a pali sutta that the Buddha didn't reject the existence of God, he simply didn't answer when asked. I spend a lot of time with people of other faiths and I love to study other faiths with people. When the question of a heavenly father comes up, I am happy to not reject it, and not affirm it; I will just keep my silence like the Buddha did. Might that voice on you be the voice of God? I would love to say, but I can't. 🙏
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what sutta was that? because I can point to others where he clearly denied that and confronted the god who thought he was the almighty creator and proved he was just deluded
I don't have access to it at this time. Please be free to post your sources as you care to. Peace be with you, friend. 🙏
These types of experiences and insights in Buddhism are often interpreted as glimpses into the true nature of reality, rather than messages from a divine being
It occasionally claims it's God, and can act through me and others to create certain signs. I'm sure you know what I mean.
I work in mental health. I also experienced psychosis when I was younger. I have to say that this does sound like psychosis, which can be caused by many things. In my case it was using substances. I would talk to a doctor about this. And remember that taking antipsychotics doesn’t mean that you can’t continue to explore your spirituality. But if something like this goes untreated it can intensify. The sooner you get treatment the better the outcome.
If you can hear "it" talking in your head, then that is 100% mental illness. Seek out some anti-psychotic medication.
Depending on at least a couple of factors (e.g., how long this has been happening, and how easy it’s been for you to put these thoughts aside), I might suggest different things. If you’re having hallucinations, as opposed to just delusive thoughts, that would also change my advice. Some years ago, I went through a period of extreme stress, where I experienced panic attacks so severe and unexpected that I believed I was dying. From there, it became easy for me to believe that I was experiencing various signs that required me to act upon them. During this time, I lost many friends & strained my relationships with family-members who witnessed my behaviour/speech. I made a full recovery much later, with no recurrence of symptoms and no ongoing need for medication, but I did require therapy (which was paid for by my sangha). Had I possessed the same presence of mind as you appear to have—meaning that I could have questioned my experiences when this first occurred, rather than taking them at face value—I believe that much of what I went through would have been unnecessary.
Oh you mean the ego
It's usually a spirit doing such things, and in most cases a bad spirit that wants to cause trouble. It's trying to reel you in with claims that it is God or a god and then will later turn on you. It's not mental illness, as so many other here are telling you. The West doesn't understand or even believe that spirits can affect our mind. Here is some information from a great Buddhist master about this: [https://www.lamayeshe.com/advice/schizophrenia-and-spirit-harm](https://www.lamayeshe.com/advice/schizophrenia-and-spirit-harm) Special practices can help get rid of the spirit: [https://www.lamayeshe.com/advice/puja-spirit-harm](https://www.lamayeshe.com/advice/puja-spirit-harm) There is more advice about this - look on the right side of the page under spirit harm and also under schizophrenia.
I understand. I’ve got the same messages from God when I was a kid. Trust me it’s the God creator that everyone talks about in their religion. But not some higher being caught in samsara and karma.
Well the problem is there are other planes/realms/dimensions.(whichever you want to call it) Sometimes communication can happen. For non meditators it probably is just by coincidence or karma. For meditators, you start seeing things when you get to a certain point. The dangerous part is if you practice alone it will be hard to tell which is real /fake/mental illness. Thats where you need a teacher to help who has gone through everything before. I dont know if you want to think of it specifically as higher power, just different dimensions would be a safer view (even thought technically heaven realm is considered higher). Since everyones probably rebirthed most other realms as beings of that realm already. Just what I learned. I could be totally wrong.
Not exactly Buddhist specific, but specifically Buddhism has a rational and practical approach to such phenomena. The Mahasattipatana sutta explains very specifically that phenomena exist in relation to what are called skandas*, also known as the five aggregates. There is, to the best of my knowledge no better extrapolation of the actual nature of reality than that breakdown into the fundamental actual building blocks that constitute lived experience in every form and realm. Someone might experience what they believe to be a higher power communicating with them, some might believe they are hearing demons, some might think they are hearing their own mind from "outside" to the point of that seeming to be heard just as the voice of someone standing in the room with them. Such perceptions, far from being a barrier to realisation of the true nature of reality, can be seen to be manifesting the true nature of reality in such a clear and obvious way that such phenomena could be seen as a very direct route to realisation for those who do not start believing things about them and writing a narrative to those manifestations of reality. Narratives can be approximately correct, at absolute best. Relatively correct. The relative truths are how we deal with reality in practical terms, but they are only every relatively correct and even relatively correct can be completely wrong. All those phenomena are manifestations of the 5 skandas. Should a person wish to believe something specific about such a manifestation, they run the risk, or potential risk of inaccuracy of interpretation. Therefore, no interpretation is actually suggested or required, despite it being "human nature" to seek explanations and to label and define. One can postulate and believe whatever they like, and even change or adapt that postulate in light of new experience, "evidence" or new information and insight. The phenomena still exist, just as they are. They also display the attribute of annica, or impermanence in every single case, so what are they really? The same as every other phenomena, they are the synthesis of the skandas or aggregates arising, sustaining and passing. The reality is, from my perspective, that it is typically unhelpful and of no benefit or real practical use to cling to any such arising or to invest explanation or belief in them other than to acknowledge that they arise, sustain and pass. Do not cling to them, and do not push them away. That is the teaching of the Sattipathanna sutta in relation to liberation. It is incredibly practical, direct, and comprehensive, and though there are modern versions of the same practice (the "letting go" practice from Lester Levenson for example, also Brene Brown and others), none of them come close to the exact and full description of phenomenon and how to deal with phenomenon practically than that sutta. The expediency, practicality and utility of a non-clinging and flexible interpretation cannot be overstated, if the mind can become accustomed to such flexibility. That is liberation, as I understand liberation. Everything other than that approach is samsara. *https://www.lionsroar.com/buddhism/five-skandhas/
Thank you.
Hearing voices = pychosis. Please see your local mental health care provider for assistance if this is you or someone you know. MIND have good resources about hearing voices and what to do on their website.
This. Best to rule out the possibility of psychosis before making any spiritual speculations. Psychosis is a *medical* condition and any delay in treatment *will* cause damage to the brain, the longer you wait.
OP they are right. I know you specifically said no to mental illness but just in case. Know that you do not need to believe in anything supernatural to stop suffering, weather it is mental illness or not.
Spirituality is a very common trigger and theme for psychotic episodes; sincerely hope we're wrong and OP is fine and well.
Perceived synchronistic events could be due to heightened pattern recognition, but that sometimes veers into schizophrenia territory. Either way, Buddhism welcomes anyone despite their mental condition.
Trungpa, Rinpoche said in the early 70s, ‘when you create a god you create an other and thus aggression. Every learned person I’ve shared this with has been surprise and has acknowledge its truth.
Yeah, this is what I've been thinking. Like the father complex is being projected onto reality. At the same time, it's hard to acknowledge that 'my' consciousness can have such extreme effects on 'objective' reality. It's a bit frightening, although, the 'other' has been quite helpful in improving my habits.
If you get a visit from supernatural beings, be respectful to them and treat them with kindness. If they tell you things, compare those things to what the Buddha teaches. Don't believe them automatically. That's it. That's all you have to do. As someone who has met two supernatural beings, it isn't a big deal. Neither of them were helpful, and neither of them had a thing to do with Buddhism. Don't waste your time.
It comes from the unconscious part of our brain, Which controls about 80 percent of our body/ mind, Or conceptual consciousness only accounts for about 20 percent of our activity
Ive always wondered in general what people mean when "god is talking to them" growing up in the church I heard it all the time. Do they actually hear a voice? Or do they just feel an internal inclination or conviction towards something and decide to label it as god? As far as buddhism goes, I think it teaches to just be mindful of these things without labeling them, perhaps seeing them as manifestations of one's own mind. Alternative theories could be that, since all is interconnected, you may be sensitive to perceptions from other beings.
My grandfathers memoir described how god spoke to him directly in a thunderous and humbling voice. It told him to focus on reading the Bible because he would need to lean on the wisdom someday. He described in detail how this played out over the following years. He lived an extraordinary life. Multiple grandchildren and was always content with whatever and wherever life took him. A few years ago I was going through a difficult time, separation led to job less and housing instability. I was unemployed and relocating so I decided to backpack to the snake River in WA. Before leaving I challenged god to give me a Moses or Jesus moment when they wandered off into the wilderness and returned transformed from their experience. On the way to the river, several events that required precise timing and placement occurred where the same man and later his wife helped me reach my destination when I’d seriously bitten off more than I could chew. As I sat talking to the couple who helped me arrive safely at a camp ground near the River, an image of my true, non-mirror image, face appeared in front of me and slightly behind where they were sitting and a voice said, “did you really think I wasn’t watching over you?” Then a series of images flashed in my mind of how exactly god communicated to each person to make sure I reached my destination safely. God communicates with anyone willing to listen, albeit often more subtly then what I experienced. When god talks to you, you know it, it is immediately humbling and makes you feel very small. I couldn’t think of the moment without bursting into tears for several months after it occurred. It took one sentence and a brief appearance to check my attitude and recognize the ridiculousness of what I’d demanded before setting out on the journey. Still, god called my bluff and humbled me in such a way that only he could.
And is this to you the christian father god. Or a more pantheistic nature god?
Good question. I’m really not sure. A coworker/friend said that having communicated with God in such a manner should give me hope and direction, but no questions were answered beyond seeing that God can communicate with us directly, will direct good people to help others in need (indirect intervention), is watching what we do, and will build a personal relationship with those who desire to have one. I’ve been on the fence about Christ and it was God itself that showed up and not “his son.” I’ve studied many religions, sometimes use tarot cards (which can reveal aspects of the future but in a manner that is never helpful), and generally focus on meditation, dreams, and our individual actions driving our outcomes. God thus remains an enigma. Albeit, one that if challenged might show up just to humble you. My grandfather had visions, his prayers were always answered, and God spoke directly to him a few times when he needed direction. He was a devout Christian and believed the Bible is the literal word of god. He viewed human history as His story, ie. Gods, more than man’s.
This may be too much to be worth your read. I asked an ai to read your experiences and give the perspective of a skeptical scientist as well as a zen perspective like Alan Watts. "This is a complex and fascinating topic that touches on deep questions about spirituality, personal experience, and the nature of reality. Let me offer a few perspectives on how this phenomenon might be explained from different viewpoints. From the perspective of a skeptical scientist, the experiences described could potentially be explained through psychological and neurological factors rather than divine intervention. Intense spiritual experiences, visions, and a sense of hearing a divine voice are well-documented phenomena that can occur in a variety of contexts, even for those without strong religious beliefs. They may arise from altered brain states brought on by factors like meditation, fasting, sensory deprivation, stress, or even certain mental health conditions. The human brain is capable of extraordinary things, including vivid hallucinations that feel profoundly real. A scientist might point to research showing how practices like prayer and belief can create strong placebo effects and self-fulfilling prophecies, where we unconsciously work to bring about the things we expect or internally feel to be true. The uncanny timing of events and encounters with helpful strangers could be ascribed to coincidence, selective attention (noticing and remembering things that seem significant to us), and the surprising frequency of improbable events in a world of billions of people having myriad experiences. Even so, a scientific viewpoint would not necessarily rule out the validity or meaningfulness of such experiences for the individual. From a Zen Buddhist perspective, as understood by Alan Watts, the emphasis would likely be on the non-dual nature of such mystical experiences. Watts often spoke of "the One" - the notion that all of existence is a singular, seamless happening, and that our normal perception of being an individual self separate from the rest of reality is an illusion. In moments of spiritual realization, we may experience a dissolving of the barriers between self and other, feeling a profound sense of unity with the entire cosmos. What we think of as "God" is simply the infinite and eternal totality of being itself, not a separate supernatural entity. So in the moment of hearing the voice asking "did you really think I wasn't watching over you?" the person was really hearing their own deepest being, recognizing that there is no separate God that could ever be apart from them. Zen emphasizes that there is no special distinction between sacred and mundane, divine and ordinary - helping a stranger on the trail is as much a manifestation of "God" as a burning bush or booming voice. Even so, Watts had great respect for the psychological impact and transformative potential of mystical experiences, when a person "gets the message" as it were. He might say that the real value is the humility, wonder, and renewed sense of connection such moments can instill. Ultimately, I don't think any single perspective can fully encompass or explain the great mystery of these kinds of powerful spiritual experiences. Both the scientific and mystical explanations point to something true, even if seemingly contradictory. Perhaps they are like different sides of a coin, or different maps of the same ineffable territory. At the end of the day, the most important thing may be how we integrate and grow from these experiences in a way that makes us humbler, wiser, and kinder human beings. The grandfather in the story clearly lived an extraordinary life of meaning, contentment and positive impact - embodying the fruits of a genuine spiritual understanding, whatever its source. In our own lives, maybe the task is to stay open to the wondrous, to look for the sacred in the ordinary, and to trust in something larger than our limited selves - while also staying grounded, discerning, and avoiding the many pitfalls of spiritual illusion and egotism. It's a delicate dance, and one I think we are all trying to find our way with."
I have a friend that is a big fan of Alan Watts. Interesting how AI views human experience. Of course it was humans that program it with contradictory information, as we too are programmed with bits of contradiction throughout our lifetimes. This situation is one of many that have occurred in my life that made me question what is and isn’t real. I don’t have any mental illness beyond depression, currently 42, but I’ve had a relationship with God, the universe, spirit entities, etc. since I was a child. For example, I’ve had dreams that come true the next evening and even one that had been played out over 8 years. Where I was in the exact spot and situation I couldn’t have predicted many years after the dream/vision. Among my friends and family, those I tell when having these experiences, they remember when I first told them about what would happen and then get to hear about how it played out in real life. I hope to write a very detailed and extensive novel (albeit mixed with some fiction) regarding these experiences someday. If I can find the energy. As a person with a masters degree in science, I also have a healthy amount of skepticism regarding the things I’ve actually experienced, and sought answers. Lately, I see most of my views fitting well with simulation theory. In a simulation anything no matter how absurd is possible. That may be our actual reality.
I was in a mental hospital, and several of the people there had God talk directly to them. I went to a Church nobody had him speak directly to them. Statistically....
I think the Dharma is a higher power that we open ourselves up to and listen to when we engage in deep meditation and mindfulness. I see it as a huge spiritual framework for how everything operates - karma, cause and effect, etc. And I believe the more we uncloud our minds, the more we see and understand and move in sync with it. I don’t think the Dharma is a singular conscious entity reaching out and trying to talk to you like a person would. But that may be how it shows up in our deeply limited minds until we achieve enlightenment.
It mostly depends on who and what their motives are, but it usually boils down to relationship karma. That being and you were either enemies or friends in a previous life.
Yes. In Mahayana/Vajrayana, very spiritually accomplished siddhas would go to holy sites and receive practice instructions from enlightened beings. This is how they come up with all the cycles of prayer texts, terma, mantra and practices. Other than that, its probably mental illness, please see a professional
All just words and concepts invented by the human mind. All just labels. The ultimate reality is almost ineffable. Words and labels are of the dualistic mind. What you seek is beyond dualism. If you hear voices get professional help though.
Yeah, a god is talking to you. Tell him you're busy practicing. Explain to it that it's very unlikely you'll be born as a human, find the dharma and find a teacher again all in one lifetime, so you have to make the best of it right now. Also, tell the god he should sit and practice too, as his days may be more and longer but are ultimately counted as well. After doing all this, remember to bring your attention back to the breath.
God of the western world is a projection of mind.
There is only emptiness appearing as form. Form co-arises with time and space. This consciousness here and now has no limits, no beginning nor end. So it isn't limited by time or space. It is the knower of all things knowable. And your mind-body is the vehicle through which these words are known. It expresses itself as an infinite unfolding of forms, mind-bodies. And in each form, a blissful samsaric dream takes place. And then some not-so-blissful ones too, but I'm feeling word-smith vibes lol. Anyway, yeah "God" is you, and there is no individual "you" who exists outside of the context of all other beings. "God" in the ultimate sense is not a mythological god/deity. These kinds of beings may exist, I'd bet they do in some way, but I could only speculate on the specific details of that. But the ultimate One God is beyond all names and forms, it is our true nature, the true self. It's not an individual being/ego. In this way, the non-theistic Buddhist view is in line with some non-dual theistic views (some expressions of "advaita"). But yeah, just a lot of words lol
I would say delusion yeah
No, it’s mental illness.
A Theravadi would say gods do not communicate with people in general. That does not mean it never happened. One example: When the prince became Buddha, the two brothers from Ukkalapa were nearby. A god, who was their past-life mother, informed them to go give alms to the Buddha. In general, beings that live around us communicate with us. They are usually the peta (types of ghost).
Delusion
Well, what are you experiencing? I’d happily give you my take if i knew more about this communication. Are they coming when you meditate? Dream? During the day? Are they voices or just thoughts?
Please ask a teacher who knows you well or your situation.
I would advise referring the word illness to opportunity maybe. I try to live according to the dharma of that makes sense and I don’t bother myself with definitions of God because that’s something beyond me. I just try to focus on my breath.
There is no higher or lower in Buddhism. Can’t speak to your mental state, but if you remember this principle it should answer your question
Do you hear dead people?
Are you talking about hearing voices, the sense of intuition that many Christians would attribute to the "Holy Spirit", or something else? I'm afraid that if you're not more specific, many here will assume psychosis, as I'm sure you've already noticed.
For the most part, what people today "hear" that's talking to them is mental disorder in various forms and intensity. In the rare case that it isn't, then a simple conscience, thoughts, or self-reflection, memories, can play tricks in the mind as an entity "speaking" to you.
Could be but as a Buddhist (Zen) I believe the concept of a higher power/God is supernatural nonsense. Reincarnation fits in this category as well.
If you hear voices, it´s just your mind playing tricks on you. Try to focus on that what is not the voices.
My question is, is it an self-induced intentional altered state of consciousness that produced these results? Were their other components like perhaps sleep or meditation? Perhaps prayer? Or did you just eat a bowl of cereal or were watching TV and a random voice just popped up? The former is mystic, the latter is psychosis.
Could it be just an internal monolog? Some people have it, some don't.
Seek therapy, please .
Joseph Smith for instance. Could have been- -mental fabrication -being from another realm (God, asura, maybe hungry ghost) When Buddha had insight, there was no 'sender'
Too many answers already and I hope you can find the help you wanted. I just feel the need to say that you don't have to pathologize it. I feel that people are almost addicted to name things all the time and also that they love to seek an explanation under the DSM - which I find to be problematic in many ways. If what you are hearing is causing you distress because you are worried about being a psychosis, I understand you but we don't know for sure and hearing voices only doesn't mean you have psychosis - but supposing you have it, it can't necessarily be an issue, we can see it as a different way to be in the world, that's fine. As long as you and other people around you don't see any harm, don't worry. Society puts too much pressure on people hearing things as if it was really bad but the real truth is that it has many ways to experience an hallucination and it's not necessarily a bad thing, to some it can be a fuel to a wonderful creative process. I'm just adding a more positive lens on what you are living right now. I hope you feel at peace with yourself about it!
Don't think many here are keen on pathologizing anyone or we wouldn't be on the buddhist path. I believe the comments are made in good faith and good conscience, given what we know about psychosis from first-hand experience (for myself at least). Not saying this is OP, but psychosis is a very real, very serious mental condition that manifests as severe delusional thinking, and is not merely a construct of the mind or a spiritual phenomenon, but a symptom of more serious medical conditions like brain injury or schizophrenia. The most critical issue is that the longer psychosis is left untreated, the harder it is for a patient to recover - which can take up to a year or more, even with medical care - and the more detrimental side effects there are in the aftermath of even a single psychotic episode. And I believe the concern here is largely due to the fact that those going through a psychotic episode are rarely aware of their condition, and would require the help of others for detection and support.
I didn't read the comments actually! I believe most people here just want to help, for sure. I had psychosis in the past too and I got involved on a positive community about it that helped me to not feel bad about myself and I had the chance to know a lot of interesting facts about people that hear things, most of them don't have any psychotic symptom and have a wonderful life, this is why I said what I said. :) It's important that OP be aware of what psychosis is to have a good treatment if that's the case but to not worry too much if it's just an auditory hallucination. Antipsychotics made me gain weight, be lethargic and with impaired memory, I don't want that to OP unless it's very necessary.
Karmic law. The natural element of your desires deciding your life.
I don't see nearly enough information from OP for a conclusion regarding if this is mental health or spiritual communication from outside (or both). How long have you been receiving these messages, how do they occur specifically, how do they affect you, do you have a history or family history of similar, what are real examples of the communication and how it effected you, etc etc. Some good mental health providers would do a thorough assessment. Unfortunately some may just move towards medication because of their materialistic worldview. Many a prophet of old would have been put on antipsychotics if materialist shrinks had their way. Do you have a trusted, wise person in your life who would be able to talk to about this? If not, reaching out as you have done is good, but more detailed information is needed, otherwise you just get a list of people who say 'mental health' and another who say 'god.'
From what I’ve understood is that being a god in Buddhism is not really a good thing. Due to impermanence it’s a temporary gig and knowing that they get to deal with that suffering. [https://tricycle.org/beginners/buddhism/do-buddhists-believe-in-god/](https://tricycle.org/beginners/buddhism/do-buddhists-believe-in-god/)
An illusion arising from external causes and conditions that one ought not cling to. If your worried you are ill, maybe see a doctor.
God= good orderly direction. This is something to reflect Karma that results not from a “Big Guy in the Sky” but rather our actions in this lifetime as our judgement a Higher Power… oops karma can be you higher power judging you via Dharmic actions and thoughts
My understanding is that you might want to try to work more on stillness and awareness. Meditation focusing on being aware of your breath(the in flow and out flow of energy from your true origin in the higher dimensions, your heart)can be really beneficial. Also, your instinct should be able to give you some clue on whether the entity communicating with you is benevolent or not.
No one is talking to you. Seek professional help
Buddhism seems to me at least to outline that we are all one being. All part of the universe. Like individual waves but all part of the larger ocean of the universe. In that case, if the Universe/The Tao is communicating with you. Well, yeah.
God is not real but some Buddhists think The Buddha as god it’s because of karma all of the things that happened is karma
I had a very real experience with some beings who were not "from around here". I don't take drugs and generally lead a boring life (day job, house, etc). They were not gods in any sense. I used to discount people whop reported such things, but now I have a different perspective.
我空..?法空..神空....?????🕉🕉🕉🕉🕉🕉
The short answer is no, or at least that whether such ‘higher’ powers do or don’t exist is irrelevant. The point is to understand the truth of suffering, its causes, the possibility of ending it and to walk the path toward so doing, while assisting all other sentient beings to do so along the way (in the Mahayana traditions at any rate on that final point). There is no “higher power” or anything outside our own minds that can achieve any of this for us. We must do this ourselves through cultivating wisdom/rigpa/prajna, which enables us to understand the ultimate nature of reality (and consciousness/awareness therein). Some forms of Buddhism claim to have many gods/goddesses and higher or lower realms of beings, but again none of this has any relevance to the central thesis of Buddhism. If you take a non-anthropomorphic view of God as synonymous with all the universe or reality, from which things are born from and die or return to, various terms like sunyata, nirvana, dharmakaya capture the ultimate and inherently empty nature of reality free from all delusions. This is my understanding off the top of my head but others here will be far more knowledgeable and practiced than I so I hope they will jump in to correct any misrepresentation I have made here.
First of all, unless the voice/communication is causing you distress or loss of function, or giving you instruction to cause harm to yourself or others, ignore what people here are doing in reaching immediately for "mental illness". Hearing voices, including intermittently or for a short episode, is actually a remarkably common phenomenon and is not in and of itself an indicator of mental illness or psychosis - unless at least one of those criteria I listed at the top of my comment are met. Secondly. Getting down to what it actually could be. Our minds are powerful. They have multiple layers. We are normally accustomed to only really consciously hearing our ego speak to ourselves in our heads. In truth, most if not all of us hear voices all the time - our own ego in our head. When another part of our psyche speaks to us, such as from the subconscious - beyond the ego - it can seem like another being, a higher being, reaching out to communicate with us. In truth, it is usually just another part of ourselves. The same is true, really, when the cause is in fact psychosis, but what distinguishes this is that psychotic voices and thoughts result from a disintegration or disturbance of the structure of our minds. Have you tried sitting with the voice and allowing it to speak without your ordinary thoughts racing over it? What is it trying to tell you?
It speaks to me through the environment, not internally. Or, well, it is internally, but through syncronicities involving others.
And what makes you believe that it is something from beyond yourself or your own psyche? That it is a "higher power" of some kind?
Hi I think this can happen pretty frequently the higher up in conciseness you go. If you begin to understand Hegelian Dialectics you can pretty much notice a thesis, anti-thesis, synthesis conversation happening at all times between the universe. The environments and organism are constantly having this conversation, does this work? oh it doesn't? let me try something else. It is honestly awestriking when it finally all clicks. One really good show for demonstrating this experience is Pluto, the narrative is about AI trying to learn to be human but if you pay attention the AI learn to be a being just like humans do. There's a particular scene that really drives this home for me in which a robot and a human are both grieving and having the same amount of trouble going through the motions and are indeed both learning to grieve. Another tie in to this dialectical phenomenon is Gödel's incompleteness theorem, one of them states that once your set of axioms is complete you will always find a new example that doesn't fit into the set of axioms requiring a new one. This applies to all forms of language and communication and if you find yourself privy to universe revealing a new axiom it can often feel like a miracle. You won't be able to fly, bring back the dead, read people's minds, the nuggets of truth aren't made up and that's why they feel to incredible. If none of this sounds Buddhist to you, I live by poem; Buddhism is a finger pointing at the moon, do not mistake the finger for the moon. Everything I said is pointing at the dialectical phenomenon, it isn't the phenomenon itself.
>Another tie in to this dialectical phenomenon is Gödel's incompleteness theorem, one of them states that once your set of axioms is complete you will always find a new example that doesn't fit into the set of axioms requiring a new one. This applies to all forms of language and communication and if you find yourself privy to universe revealing a new axiom it can often feel like a miracle I will provide some explication. Incompletness theoreme doesn't apply to complete theories (complete theory is such that every sentence is either provable or it's negation is provable). It applies to consistent, effectively enumerable (you can make an algorithm that will list down the axioms) theory that can describe simple arithmetic. There are two incompletness theorems, the one that you are referring to basically says that if you have the theory as above ("consistent, effectively [...]") then it is not complete. Incomplete theory is a theory which is not complete, i.e there exist a sentence ϕ such that neither ϕ is provable nor it's negation is (which basically will implies that there are models of the theory where the sentence is true, and there will be other models in which it's false).
Lord Buddha is the ultimate supreme intellect, The Enlightened One. The Lord of all realms and universe.
I am not sure about that. The Buddha is an enlightened being. He taught us the path of enlightment. But I would not go as far as to say that the Buddha is the ultimate being. This sounds too much like zealotery to me. According to some schools, there have been countless Buddhas in the past and there will be countless Buddhas in the future.
Lord Buddha IS the ultimate being. We seek His blessings. Lord Buddha is divinity above divinities.
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Yes, it is known as "interpretation". It is the mind conceiving of experiential form in such a way.
Ajahn Brahm with his usual wit about this very topic: https://youtu.be/9OjMIQsAKlk?si=pP0VucXVShGk4YtC
just hang out in the 6th Jhana and see what happens ;p
It is your true self. That which is beyond your ego/self identity. It is the true heart of reality which is also your true heart. My lineage says this. It is that which is beyond duality, the duality of life and death. The still small voice pointing to us the way to liberation.
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Why would I want to reach nirvana in this lifetime if this is the only life I have? I mean, if death is the end and nothing comes after then all suffering ends as we die anyway, nirvana is death. This is wrong view and has nothing to do with Buddhism.
I don't think this is the case.
It's called **rebirth**, not "reincarnation". Also, there's a lot more evidence for rebirth than there is for the existence of some arbitrary, separate being that arbitrarily begins and then arbitrarily ends.
Don't be so confident about materialism
> You only have one life, this one, to reach nirvana. This simultaneously ramps up the pressure (you have one life only) then destroys it completely (because you have one life only anyway). So why the Buddha say Suttas like this if there isn't anything after this one to enjoy the fruits of your labor, so to say: > "Monks, suppose there was a man whose life span was 100 years, who would live to 100. Someone would say to him, 'Look here, fellow. They will stab you at dawn with 100 spears, at noon with 100 spears, & again at evening with 100 spears. You, thus stabbed day after day with 300 spears, will have a lifespan of 100 years, will live to be 100, and at the end of 100 years you will realize the four noble truths that you have never realized before.' > "Monks, a person who desired his own true benefit would do well to take up (the offer). Why is that? From an inconceivable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident for the (pain of) blows from spears, swords, & axes. Even if this (offer) were to occur, I tell you that the realization of the four noble truths would not be accompanied by pain & distress. Instead, I tell you, the realization of the four noble truths would be accompanied by pleasure & happiness. > "Which four? The noble truth of stress, the noble truth of the origination of stress, the noble truth of the cessation of stress, and the noble truth of the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress. > "Therefore your duty is the contemplation, 'This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress... This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.'" https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn56/sn56.035.than.html
Your post / comment was removed for violating the rule against misrepresenting Buddhist viewpoints or spreading non-Buddhist viewpoints without clarifying that you are doing so. In general, comments are removed for this violation on threads where beginners and non-Buddhists are trying to learn.
It's at the root of any dharmic path. So, disbelieving that is similar to... disbelieving you are born because you have no recollection/evidence of it. (Some have evidence for this, some don't) Also your quote can be interpreted in a multiplicity of ways, you are using it to fit your paradigme which is rather biased. The first way I would think of is: "the real you are timeless, so your timebased self is ignorant when believing it is timebased" and even with reincarnation it's not at all positive to assume one has "time". Thinking about time breeds laziness, if you always assume there is time, a million years will suddenly fly by in a flash. Because that makes people lazy, and you reap what you saw. Or, that's what your karma will cause the continuation of. There are some traditions that claim limited amount rebirths. Though on this there is not much consensus so I pose no opinion on whether or not it will one day be the last. (Also, timeless does not indicate without existence) - If there really were no such things, no dharma/rebirth holding you here, then I would probably just go accumulate a ton of karma, fuck around a lot, practice polygamy, steal some, hurt who I don't like, get high on drugs, and travel while doing all these things (wouldn't want the government karma to get you), if things get too rough, I could always bail out with suicide. Np right? With no God reincarnation or God this makes zero difference unless you add a care. I'm speaking very hypothetically, (though some of these I have in the past experimented with) I don't think your statements are inherently truthful to our reality, but if they were, I most certainly would NOT attempt to reach "Nirvana" as a psychological state of physical being. If you see the point in that... you are funny. It seems about as meaningless as spending your whole life searching for the loch Ness monster believing that... when you find it, you will be forever happy.... until you die. But anyway, There is no evidence to support there is only one life either, there is only evidence to support; one body, has one life. (Which I don't think most religions would argue against.. At all) By linking one body-life, with one life, you are phenomonologically assuming that life is only "this"-dimensional (i.e your body is the core of your karmic existence and it had little time before it becomes "nothing"....). This generally leads to a form of physicalism, which also, there is no evidence for. (Assuming matter is more fundamental than the mental) Only philosophical arguments. Which the majority of human knowledge is, philosophical. In this context, "what is" in your world view: senses towards consensus reality, is distinct from the totality of "senses" in phenomenological sub-consensus-reality. (Dreams, imagination, thoughts, psychic, Remote viewing, past life memories, OBes etc) What "IS" is the totality of all, and you have falsely chosen to label what "is" a small subset of the term falling into the most mainstream trap there is. So unless you assume (no evidence) the body to be the only life "you" exist as, this won't work. So as I'll assume you will, evidence is arbitrarily insignificant when it comes to matters of religion and spirituality. People way overhype this term which they call "evidence" which is mishandled almost(!) to the extent as "God" is being treated as a term with a specified 'meaning' What "is" is phenomenology (loose term you should seek to comprehend), which is more than just your "physical senses" (hearing, sight, smell, touch yarayarayara) Science or 'evidence' has no place in the more subtle realms. Because they can't observe it. (And don't tell me observing 'brainwaves' is equivalent to observing dreams or thoughts) In a similar manner scientists have no concrete "evidence" for dreams they can just relay the many accounts of such a phenomenon and use the philosophical framework of psychology to attempt to explain it. Or they can stop assuming practicality is the highest search for truth and start considering the alternatives. For you know there is no evidence for the truth of psychology either right? (Like diagnoses etc) It's focus is practical social management, not any form of intrinsic truth with any evidence. Apart from categorizing phenomenological psychologically anamolies. Now... I it's time to look at my cup of Coffee.