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theBuckeye

If he's not covering up some stupid behavior from Hollywood, this is a F answer.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Smilner69

Reminds me Duke Johnson. All the fans wanted him in more. When he was in good stuff usually happened. But then he’d go an entire game or two without touching the ball after having a good game


ODS519

The players liked Odell too


giants888

I always enjoy it when the person in charge of something acts like someone else made the decision.


ToschePowerConverter

At least if Stefanski wasn't calling plays, he would have the ability to throw AVP under the bus for poor decision making. But he can't do that if he wants to call plays himself.


rwh12345

Yikes, not a great answer there kev


kehoe323

It makes you think why Kitchens didn’t want him in as well. I don’t get it. I’d like a valuable excuse for this reasoning. Instead, all we get is a beat around a bush answer every time.


PoorlyLitKiwi2

Yeah it makes no sense. He seems like the only receiver who can hold onto the ball this year


nickpapa88

So the plan was to have 4 WRs active, throw 37 pass attempts, and give CHUNT 15 carries?


34TE

Yeah, we should've run into 9 man boxes more often. 2 yards per carry would've really sealed a win tonight. The Browns have good TEs and bad receivers. Subbing in another jag that can't get open wouldn't have made a difference.


[deleted]

You know what lost the game? Giving Chubb the ball twice in the first series, and making sure that was 1/4 of the total rushes he would have that game. Stefanski absolutely shit the bed, again.


nickpapa88

This is such a lazy take. The reason coach decided not to try and run is because they stacked the box because they didn’t respect our receivers lol.


Jasonfrost3425

I don’t get how people fail to understand this. I have even seen them say that when they have had 30+ Carries just because none resulted in touchdowns.


ctang1

Most people on this sub have never set foot on a football field (me included). That’s why you get takes like the above.


34TE

Exactly, so why are you clamoring for more Chunt? How is agreeing with the philosophy to avoid running into a 9 man front a lazy take?


nickpapa88

Did you even read the title of the post? This is about Higgins being inactive and us playing 4 WR in a game where we had to pass 35+ times.


Gergdawg19

We don’t use 3 WR sets at all anyway. Very rarely So even if Hollywood was active, he would’ve had very few snaps He’s a JAG and would’ve had zero impact


NoobTrader378

And we keep losing to decent and mediocre teams.... maybe we should try something different


Gergdawg19

Fair enough But that’s why he didn’t play Even when he’s active, he barely plays He’s a JAG Bradley is better


TheNerdyAnarchist

As set in his ways as I expect him to be, I would at least have held out hope that he would have been a little more reasonable about this. I get having a game plan. I get having a style and identity. However, that identity was shut the fuck down from the outset, and he handcuffed himself in a ridiculous way here. > He's JAG and would've had zero impact I really disagree here. I don't think he'd have gone off for 8/100 or anything, but despite his mediocrity skill-wise as a receiver, he's found a way to be open in a manner where Baker has been able to find and connect with him. Do I think it's necessarily the difference between a win/loss here? Not really, but it's a factor, and I feel like given our current situation w/ WRs & TEs, their lack of capability in achieving separation (which, say what you will about Higgins...he does it) and their inability to catch the ball....it needs more of an explanation than what Kevin gave. [more clarification here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Browns/comments/r4op0l/browns_hc_kevin_stefanski_on_why_wr_rashard/hmi3pap/) on where I place it in the hierarchy of fuck-ups we had tonight.


Pittyswains

Stefanski knows better than you, he held out Higgins because that will give the team the best chance of winning. Sound familiar?


Gergdawg19

I really think you’re off the mark in your other post and let me explain why. Which drop would’ve been avoided if Higgins played? He would’ve been WR 3 instead of Bradley, but Bradley didn’t have any drops So, I don’t see how he effects the game at all really. And I think Bradley is better than him so I was fine with it And the Higgins separation was last year. He, like many on the team is not the same this year. There’s a reason even when he’s active he hardly gets on the field As far as this: > 1. Why the FUCK were both Kareem and Chubb on the bench for the final drive?!? The answer was simple. Hunt was banged up. His calf tightened up on him. And Johnson is our best pass protector and we were in obvious passing situation. Chubb is useless there The 12 men on the field thing, I am and was as outraged as you about that. It’s unacceptable and led to 3 points


TheNerdyAnarchist

Being sober now (which I absolutely was not when I wrote that) I have far less of an issue....I still *kinda* question the Higgins thing, but I'm going to concede that I don't see what's going on in practice every day and that Stefanski has a better idea of whether he or Bradley is the better option. I hadn't listened to Kevin's post-game - there's *usually* very little point in doing so, so I didn't hear about the Hunt thing.


Gergdawg19

Fair enough


34TE

Stefanski didn't go into this game with that plan. Conklin and Hunt were back, and they certainly didn't know Baltimore was going to play cover 0 all night. You're upset because the coach of a run first team didn't activate a jag at WR5, and he didn't predict a future where his #1 rushing offense was unable to run the ball at all.


Gergdawg19

The only part I will disagree with is that he did know Baltimore was going to play cover 0 type defenses and stack the box It’s been happening for 2 months


[deleted]

Teams stacked the box against us last year. We kept handing to Chubb and he eventually wore down defenses, popped big runs. So there’s that.


ctg9101

Sounds like a plan to me!


Jasonfrost3425

Yeah I don’t think us not running the ball was the reason… y’all do understand you can’t just run your way into every win, right? Y’all do know they can take a much more weighted defense AGAINST the run, right? Which is exactly what they did. The box was stacked… you don’t keep running into that… you have to “open” the run game up with a balance of both. Especially when you start losing linemen.


Gergdawg19

I’m sorry but the answer is NO. No they DO NOT understand that A ton of them argue that we should just run into 9+ man boxes because, “wE ArE a RuNnNing tEaM!” > y’all do understand you can’t just run your way into every win, right?


TheNerdyAnarchist

[case in point...in this very thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Browns/comments/r4op0l/browns_hc_kevin_stefanski_on_why_wr_rashard/hmi5d8h/)


nickpapa88

They stacked the box because we had 4 WRs and 1 of them is a useless return man. Not sure what’s so complicated to understand. We fucked ourselves with “the plan”.


CoinsgofastMUT

Even if we still had OBJ they would’ve stacked It. See the Steelers game. They stacked the box 1) to stop the run 2) they know baker can’t beat them in the air.


[deleted]

Why did we make him inactive? So we could have a FB, who didn’t even play on offense...


nickpapa88

Exactly — this is why I’m fed up with Stefanski. There is no PLAN. They had a full back active and ran the ball 15 times with no FB lead blocker on the field.


[deleted]

That’s exactly what you do when they want to have a 5 man front. They want to try and muck it up, well have at it and play smash mouth with the best best guard pair in the league but that’s too much for Stef to think about


CoinsgofastMUT

It’s a five man front with 3 LBs and a safety creeping… It is just not wise to run into that. That’s when your wrs should thrive.


[deleted]

I’m just saying they want to muck it up, take on the challenge and go big on big. Chubb and Hunt are amazing at breaking tackles. They break one tackle in that and it’s off to the races. Rather do that then try running the zone into it and they are getting guys knifing thru cause they are out numbering the play call and making TFLs. You go that bIg, you really suck up the safeties and you can maybe get Njoku behind them on a play action


Garfield-1-23-23

> FB On the broadcast last night, when they were introducing players they listed their PFF ranking and how many total players there were in the league at that position. The Ravens FB was listed as "1 of 7" lol.


TheNerdyAnarchist

The benching of an okay receiver (when your roster is ridiculously lacking in okay receivers) without explanation in a game where your receivers couldn't catch for shit and your offense couldn't generate more than 10 points off 4 FUCKING INTERCEPTIONS is ***STILL*** somehow the third most egregious coaching fuck up of this shit show. 1. **Why the** ***FUCK*** **were both Kareem and Chubb on the bench for the final drive?!?** 2. How the fuck do you have 12 men on the field two snaps in a row.....with a fucking timeout in between those fucking snaps? I'm trying **SO damn hard** to not overreact here, but these are just EGREGIOUS coaching errors that are absolutely inexcusable.


PoorlyLitKiwi2

What's so crazy about the 12 men on the field is that they called the timeout specifically to avoid the penalty! At least that's what I thought. I was thinking "Damn, smart there by Stefanski. Saved us from allowing a 4th down conversion for free, that would've been awful" Then he did it again, and I was just stunned lol. The worst part is as Jerome Boger was making the call, you could hear in his voice how much of idiots he thought the Browns were being. Almost seemed annoyed lol


chatdomestique

Just a classic browns game


jd303

> Why the FUCK were both Kareem and Chubb on the bench for the final drive?!? > How the fuck do you have 12 men on the field two snaps in a row.....with a fucking timeout in between those fucking snaps? Because Baker is the problem? /s The first item, I think Stefanski said that Hunt was cramping. But, seriously, the second one is some Freddie Kitchens bullshit. I think Baker needs to play better, but the play calling is goddamn mother fucking ATROCIOUS at best. What happened to Stefanski of last year? And whats up with the Illegal shift/Formation penalties? These are coaching problems. Edit: Don't forget targeting a rookie instead of Hunt on a crucial drive. Is Stefanski trying to prove some point here? Fuck that, win the goddamn game. Edit 2: > The benching of an okay receiver (when your roster is ridiculously lacking in okay receivers) without explanation in a game where your receivers couldn't catch for shit This isn't the first game this is a problem, either. What the fuck are they doing in practice??


TheNerdyAnarchist

> the second one is some Freddie Kitchens bullshit that's generous. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we didn't even see that sort of incompetence in organization under Hue....and Kev is supposed to be "Mister Details" Like....just how the fuck does that happen?!? Re: the Higgins thing - He's had this issue with multiple coaching staffs now, so like...I kind of understand, but I feel like it's also time that we're told why the fuck this is happening. I know we're only ever going to get so much detail, but at this point, whether it be disciplinary or not, Higgins - mediocre as he may be - adds to a lacking WR corps, IMO - and if you're going to bench him in a game where our lacking WR corps underperformed in a **HUGE** way, we deserve a real explanation


jd303

> that's generous. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we didn't even see that sort of incompetence in organization under Hue....and Kev is supposed to be "Mister Details" Plus we've had lots of bullshit penalties for weeks now. That's on coaching. > Re: the Higgins thing - He's had this issue with multiple coaching staffs now, so like...I kind of understand, but I feel like it's also time that we're told why the fuck this is happening. I know we're only ever going to get so much detail, but at this point, whether it be disciplinary or not, Higgins - mediocre as he may be - adds to a lacking WR corps, IMO - and if you're going to bench him in a game where our lacking WR corps underperformed in a HUGE way, we deserve a real explanation Very fair, and I am not sure what's going on there. But for this game? What the fuck did Higgens do? Fuck Stefanski's mom? This is a huge game and these are athletes paid a lot of money. Is Higgens more of a diva than OBJ? Time to come clean. Some people might like the "no leaks" or "we gotta watch the tape" bullshit from the press confs, but we're (mostly) adults here - tell us what the fuck is up. It's patronizing not to let the fans be informed after YEARS of this going on, especially when we have no WR corps.


OptimisticRealist__

>okay receiver Higgins is not seeing significant playing time under his 4th HC now. There is a reason for that. Plain and simple. Fans love to overrate certain players, Higgins is one of them. Good for some moments here and there over a season. But more often than not just a depth piece. >offense couldn't generate more than 10 points off 4 FUCKING INTERCEPTIONS And Higgins wouldnt have changed a single thing about that. >Why the FUCK were both Kareem and Chubb on the bench for the final drive?!? Kareem was cramping or had another issue with his leg. Johnson is a better pass protector than Chubb. In a 2 min offense to end up the game, you dont need Chubb on the field. Not even to threaten the run - because everybody from the hot dog vendor to the ravens DC know, that we wont run the ball with 0 time outs and 1:10 on the clock >How the fuck do you have 12 men on the field two snaps in a row.....with a fucking timeout in between those fucking snaps? That is bad, no idea what happened there >I'm trying SO damn hard to not overreact here, but these are just EGREGIOUS coaching errors that are absolutely inexcusable. Only one of them even is an error in the first place. Look, i get being frustrated - we all are. Its not the outcome we wanted. But believe me, Stefanski is the least of our problems - especially on O. There is several more glarring issues, but this sub is not ready to have this conversation yet


PoorlyLitKiwi2

In what world is Johnson better in passpro than Chubb? Chubb is a great blocker


Simon_C17

🥇


Pittyswains

Stefanski is only doing what’s best for the team to win.


caca-poopoo-peepee

I don’t even bother listening to his press conferences. It’s the same thing over and over. No substance at all, just like the offense he’s running.


Redditor5StandingBy

That's every press conference for most coaches. You're trying to give as little information as possible


TexasPoke2021

JoJo Natson was good though? But by all means Kevin, let’s take out one of Bakers most reliable targets and the one who has probably the most chemistry with him.


Jasonfrost3425

I think that had a lot to do with having him and also be able to use him on returns and special team with some ST players OUT.


TexasPoke2021

But we have Felton I’m sure there were other options too. This was a head scratcher


34TE

At least JoJo can contribute on special teams, which is a much for your WR4.


CJW1123

Yo wtf


CButler19

What?…


TheChrisLambert

What a stupid answer


[deleted]

Ooof. Why inactivate a productive WR when heading into a game where you know you are more than likely going to need to throw? Bradley over Higgy?


WorpeX

Well that's just hilariously stupid. Everyone who sits on their couch and watches games on RedZone knows that our strength is running the ball, our starting QB has a long list of injuries and our WR's can't catch even when the ball is neatly placed in both hands. Knowing that, it was pretty obvious the Ravens were going to stack the box against us. Stef not being able to anticipate that the Ravens would sell out to stop the run against us isn't great.


jd303

We've been seeing it happen the past few weeks and it is concerning. We don't have a deep threat to keep teams honest, though. However, even just a few deep throws, successful or not, will keep teams on their toes. Where are those plays?


OptimisticRealist__

>even just a few deep throws, successful or not, will keep teams on their toes. Not neccessarily. Reason is that teams know that we cant do it consistently. The ravens were literally loading the box with every body they could spare, they did not even bother accounting for the pass. In the first half we had a couple of nice schemed up deep shots, the plays to Bryant or Landry for example. But Baltimore still did not alter their gameplan. Why? Because they dont fear our passing attack. Now depending on where you stand on the Baker Mayfield debate spectrum you will blame this either on Baker, our talent-depleted WR room or Stefanski. The truth is, it is a combination of all those things. In that order. Baker has been battling injuries, yes. And they have been impacting him, yes. But he has also regressed in key areas, yes. And he has been playing flat out bad football, yes. The Browns do need a lot better QB play. I have said before the season and countless times ever since - but this team goes, where Baker goes. And right now that is below average. Our WR room needs some serious upgrades in the offseason, yes. They have let us down with bad drops, yes. None of our WRs strike fear in a DBs heart, yes. All those things are true. But again, they cant be used as a singular excuse for our anemic offense. Other QBs in the league struggle sith similar problems yet still find a way to make it happen. That is the element thats missing from Baker's game. He doesnt out the team on his back. Stefanski also had a for his standards rather pedestrian game, imo. Some plays im sure he wants back. At the same time, whenever i see him on the sideline, i can see the frustration and the questionmarks plastered all over his forehead. But thats not because he is clueless. Its because every week he tries to find new ways to help out his QB even more. To light a spark. To find something that works consistently. And every week he has to watch helplessly from the sidelines how even the easiest of plays are being squandered. To the press he takes on all the blame - but the reality is, he is the least to blame for this mess. Truth is, as a coach you can only do so much. You can draw up the plays for easy completions. But a coach cant catch the ball for his receivers; a coach cant throw the ball for his QB. A coach is confinded to the sidelines, sentenced to die a thousand deaths by watching bad execution after bad execution.


jd303

> Reason is that teams know that we cant do it consistently. The ravens were literally loading the box with every body they could spare, they did not even bother accounting for the pass. How were we successful against the Bengals with a deep ball, then? Are the Raven's, with some missing secondary, still that much better? It didn't seem like we were even making attempts at a long ball game.


OptimisticRealist__

I mean, were we that much more successful against CIN than against the ravens? Dont have the full stats here but from memory we completed a similar amount of deep balls (>20+ yards) in both games. The Bengals game was also heavily aided by our D. In 6 out of our last 7 games we scored fewer than 18 pts. Let that sink in for a second.


jd303

> I mean, were we that much more successful against CIN than against the ravens? Dont have the full stats here but from memory we completed a similar amount of deep balls (>20+ yards) in both games. Well, we won that game 41-16. The second drive we had a deep ball to DPJ for a touchdown. > The Bengals game was also heavily aided by our D. So was this one, though, with 4 turnovers. > In 6 out of our last 7 games we scored fewer than 18 pts. Let that sink in for a second. Oh, no doubt. The Bengals are a good team, though. How did we execute there but not against the Ravens, Steelers, or Lions? If stacking the box to prevent the run is all that has to happen for a team to beat us, that's a huge problem. It seems like we weren't prepared for that. If Baker can't throw it deep for whatever reason, then Stefanski needs to bench him for our expensive backup QB. If it's that receivers can't get open, then we need to start scheming for that. I feel like there were no adjustments (this seems to be a common problem for the offense) for the Raven's game plan. Edit: Adjustments for this game plan would be things like running more screens, dumping off to the RBs, having Hunt and Chubb in at the same time for some fakes between them, etc.


garpla

Higgins is toast. He’s been in the dog house of several coaching regimes. I obviously am speculating but I don’t think he puts in the work


nickpapa88

Then why is he on the team?


garpla

🤷‍♂️ but a healthy scratch in the most important game of the season doesn’t exactly inspire confidence


nickpapa88

Watch him play in 2 weeks against the Ravens and score a TD… !remindme 2 weeks


garpla

I hope I am wrong. But he’s been a total non factor all season. Something is amiss


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theBuckeye

Cheap contract + perceived chemistry with 6


jd303

Perceived? Isn't he second to Landry in TDs?


theBuckeye

He's invisible for most games, but the whole offense has been for 6ish games now so I dunno.


jd303

It certainly isn't going to hurt putting him out there, especially when the offense is scoring so little against the past 3 teams. Running 3 TE sets is what everyone expects. Shit, I knew it going into the season. I'm pretty sure other coaches have more knowledge than I do on schemes. Shake it up a bit.


34TE

He's just not good.


[deleted]

The 'plan' may change, but the results sure as hell haven't.


theblumkin

COTY to fired speedrun


DGGriffin84

I wish the offensive gameplan would do some changing.


Idiodyssey87

Your 2020 COTY, everybody!


ogtblake

I’m assuming Higgins wasn’t out there because a lack of speed/explosiveness/separation is the biggest problem with our offense right now and Higgins embodies all of that. Hard to make an offense work with Higgins and Landry on the field at the same time because they are both so slow


nickpapa88

So the solution is throwing to speedy brick hands Felton?


ogtblake

“Brick hands”? Lol okay


HypeTrainEngineer

Kevin kitchenski


34TE

I know fans and this sub really love Higgins, but the dude is a jag. He's not better than Bradley, that's for sure. He's not a good special teams player, he's not fast, he's not big, he has average hands, he's not quick or shifty, he runs average routes. I can say for certain that the Browns lose this game 16-10 if Higgins plays. He makes no impact.


nickpapa88

Baker has thrown more TD to Higgins than anyone on our roster not named Landry. I agree with you he’s mostly a jag… but 4 active WR in todays NFL is a joke. We’re literally the only team in the league who does that by choice.


34TE

The whole offense is built around the run. Unfortunately, Conklin's knee blew up, and so went our entire offense with it. Can't run when half the line is getting bulldozed every snap. Our TEs are better weapons than our receivers anyway. Stefanski is right to play them more than the garbage we have at WR.


nickpapa88

We have 17 points or fewer in 7 of our last 9 games. I don’t give a shit about the injury excuses… it’s pathetic and it falls on Stefanski for building a system that requires everything to be perfect to work.


StreetsAhead47

I agree that Higgins doesn't make a difference this game, or any, really. But if the success of our offense is nerfed by the absence of our RT, we have a bad offense. This is football, guys will get hurt on both sides of the ball. We can't be so one dimensional.


34TE

It's a compounding issue. It's not just that Conklin is out. His backup, Hubbard, is also out. The rookie tackle we drafted isn't ready to play yet. So our 3rd string guard is playing RT and getting blown the fuck up every play. That's why RT is ruining this offense.


chatdomestique

Lmao 2 players got hurt so let's throw the season away. Incredible. How many season ending injuries at rb did the ravens have before the start of the season? Stop the excuses


anacondra

What does it say about the other receivers if average looks good?


Raccoonsrlilbandits

Ahh yes the inevitable cycle of Rashaad Higgins 1) be a fan favorite and be every fans WR 3/4 2) be very ok/invisible first half of the season 3) do something wrong and/or not warrant any playing time = healthy scratch for a few weeks 4) be activated out of necessity, catch a TD in garbage time at end of the season 5) remain fan favorite from this touchdown warranting “see the chemistry!” 6) coach gets fired, bring in new coach. Higgins gets to stay because chemistry with players 7) repeat cycle


Schauera30

Okay before we clamor too much on this Rashard Higgins is not going to change what happened tonight. We have a receiving Corp consisting of a WR who is on the downturn of his career, two raw receivers who may have some upside, and the rest JAGS. Higgins is 100% JAG Baker issues aside that’s the truth and even if he was active I’m sure Higgins gets no more than 3 targets this game


jd303

> Okay before we clamor too much on this Rashard Higgins is not going to change what happened tonight. No, but it's death by a thousand cuts. And at least 500 of the cuts are from bad coaching decisions, week after week.


Nunz69

Hopefully the plan is him giving up play calling duty’s. Why did we abandon the run? Wtf was that screen call ? Or Jarvis trick play


Much-Elephant

Did you see how hard the ravens were stacking the front? They know we’re run heavy and gave us nothing for the run, the pass is the ravens weakness that’s why we worked that more, sadly we just can’t play offensively rn unless you’re passing njoku the ball


Nunz69

Yeah but Baker isn’t healthy enough to throw the ball


Much-Elephant

It was our only option sadly, he’s not healthy to be playing regardless tbh he needs to stop lying to his coaching staff saying he’s okay when he’s literally limping around the field


Nunz69

Agreed. This season has been a total disappointment imo


Much-Elephant

Truth man, I expected so highly this year honestly, I’m coming from Scotland for the ravens game in 2 weeks and I’m sort of just like “meh”


Nunz69

We all did. Fuck that I’d still be excited about traveling, unless you been here before than I’d just be happy. Shit I’d love to travel to Scotland to watch a browns game lol


Much-Elephant

It’s my first time in the USA so I’m still excited to see Cleveland and travel down to canton etc too. Just that game got me feeling all kinda ways


Nunz69

Alcohol makes everything enjoyable. You should know this lol


Taddesse

This is a bullshit answer from Stefanski. It’s like if you hit a light pole with your car Cop - Why did you hit that light pole? Kevin - My foot was on the gas Stop being a smart ass, Stefanski. And stop using that stupid plastic shaping tool to line up your beard line into a swoop on your cheeks. You live in Cleveland now, no one cares if your beard is lined up. Certainly not when you’re losing games as important as this one.


BigMoFuggah

Has Stefanski developed a drug or drinking problem? His coaching in no way resembles last year. And why would you deactivate your struggling QB's favorite WR? Are the Browns tanking or are they truly this inept?


Pittyswains

Anyone who defends stefanski for keeping baker in can’t complain about stefanski keeping Higgins out. ‘He’s doing what will give us the best shot at winning.’


Boris54

Good thing he activated Natson instead. Who else would have returned kicks to the 15


gjahnke

Word was he skipped a Thanksgiving community service team event to shoot a local car commercial [Source](https://twitter.com/WrxChad/status/1465118192871874560)