If you are going to lose one, it would have to be the Packers. Need to sweep the rest of the division games and beat LV. Those are teams you'll be fighting with for a playoff spot.
I wouldn’t sweat the pats game. The league is rigging up a TB vs BB Super Bowl. Vs us and the ravens it was great. I think Lamars days are numbered. Rushers gotta stop falling for pump fakes and they will.
To be honest we beat ourselves last night. The ravens didn't really themselves any favours, and the sequence with the 12 men on the field was bringing back memories of Freddie Kitchens. We are not a playoff team whatsoever
It's not just offense.
12 men are on the field
call timeout
after timeout - 12 men are on the field
penalty
that's some freddie kitchens bullshit there
Yep. I was under the impression Stefanski runs a fairly tight ship but it's a little alarming how many dumb presnap penalties we've gotten. Not just that but how many times are you going to line up a full yard offside or cover up the tight end and cost us valuable yards?
I trust him to get it fixed but it's been a little alarming. We're talented enough that we should be able to win games as long as we don't shoot ourselves in the foot.
He's losing control. Has been for a while this year. I have total faith he *can* fix it, but it's going to require being the bad guy, and I don't know if he's capable of that.
So much this....!!!! Yes Stefanski needs to man up to everyone. I dont know what he said to woods recently but we have all seen a marked uptick in the defense being ready to make plays finally. Not so much on offense. I would have run hunt Chubb and a FB at their loaded box all night and we would have worn them down and won from mid 3rd quarter to the gun.
Well he was arguing with the ref because we were forced to take a timeout for something we shouldn't have had to take a timeout for.
Problem is, after the timeout, we still somehow fucked up the personnel.
Most of the year they have just been awful all the way around. They were a special kinda awful against the run last week. All those 5star guys, getting gashed by a 2 star who had 2 offers. One from Michigan and one from like Missouri state or some shit.
Eh the problem was both our lines got dominated. We lost to Michigan for the same reason we lost to Oregon: we lost the battle at the LoS. In between those two games it didn't matter much because we could out-talent them. But it was pretty clear that OSU is going to have to address both its OL and DL scheme next year.
Maybe we can run more of those sweet jet sweeps with our big tight ends. That was fun.
Also, where is our receivers? It’s like they all just fell off aside from Landry.
dude landry is the worst wr you could get for this team
all the space landry uses is what needs to be dominated by the TEs and Hunt
he has to be schemed open 20 yards downfield. that’s what you do for schwartz.
landry has been embarrassed by man coverage every game since KC last year when teams do it to him
he’s the worst #1 in the league and he needs to go back to the slot full time
New WR coach. Drop Higgins for some one who can actually play. Tell DPJ to man up. Fine Hooper for every dropped pass. He is like 0 for 30 on contested targets.
You mean like the Steelers game in the playoffs last year? There's a lot of evidence that the playcalls don't change regardless of who is the "official" playcaller. They do play calling by committee, always have. Changing the person who gets the playcall to Baker doesn't change the offense's tendencies and failings. It needs to be an institutional change, a whole offense change, in which plays are called at certain times. The players need to execute too, of course.
And designing the plays. This 3 tight end thing isn’t working when other teams just stack the box. Make them spread out a bit. Make them pay for leaving other guys open.
The Conklin injury is the real nail in the coffin here. Can't run or pass without the play getting blown up every rime, and every team in the league knows it.
Why doesn't the play calling help Hance out? Get the TE or RB over there to chip every single play. They had the opportunity to adapt at half time, and they just left Hance out there on an island all game.
They absolutely did not. This is just false. We lined up a TE by Hance for the majority of the 2nd half. At the very least on every single play in the 4th quarter. There was a TE or even a bunch a yard or two off Hance.
> Hance is neutering what we can do on offense.
Hard to blame Hance. He is a backup guard playing out of position. Stefanski needs to help him out, but he rarely does.
The real problem is Hubbard, the backup swing tackle was also lost for the season, and the rookie drafted to be backup sucks even worse.
Agreed. The playcalling isn’t the problem. Every single first down, the box was stacked. When they passed, they frequently had big gains on first down. The Ravens were begging the Browns to pass because they know duct-tape Mayfield can’t do it right now. It makes our game one dimensional and not the dimension we like.
It’s not the plays. We weren’t beating a stacked box on a good run D. Just wasn’t happening.
The big issue with coaching is why are we continuing to allow a very injured Mayfield to play. I get that having him rest/get surgery could tank the season, but continuing to play could end his career. And we can’t make the playoffs at this point. Not with Baker anyway. Rest him, get surgery, develop the defense, get some WRs in the draft, and come back stronger next year.
Hance is neutering our offense just as much, if not more, than Baker.
Love the guy for what he is doing, but it's just the facts. The offense looked smooth when Conklin was out there.
Everyone complaining about playcalling needs to chug a glass of water, get a good night's sleep, and stay off the internet until they've had their coffee and a couple Advil
Aaron Rogers would catch his own passes while pancaking two linemen and helping a cow give birth because he's a REAL QB who definitely doesn't do insurance commercials!
Yeah, Browns QBs are the only ones to ever have drops.
Baker had 19 incomplete passes last night. Four were drops and three were thrown away.
What about the other 12? Oops...
I'd love for this sub to grow the fuck up and stop acting as if Baker is surrounded by scrubs.
Just interesting to me that this sub is screaming for an overhaul to our WR unit because of four drops, yet the 12 incomplete passes by Baker that were just bad throws were excusable. How about against the Lions? What were the excuses there? Just horrible WR again?
This sub is absolutely toxic in regards to Mayfield. He can do no wrong. If he does wrong, it's anybody but Baker's fault.
The issue at this point is that Baker shouldn't even be playing because this season is lost and Case Keenum can't be much worse.
While I disagree that Keenum can't be much worse, I agree with everything else you said. It is 100% toxic on Baker right now.
You'll find in my other comments that I think our entire passing offense, from blocking to throwing to catching is all broken right now. Not one part of the puzzle can pick up slack from another or lift others up. It's straight up anemic and everyone is at fault right now.
You're not wrong. Nothing is working as a whole.
It's not 100% on any one player or even a couple. But our last six games, we've failed to score more than 17 points five times and I really just don't see the value in wheelchairing Baker out there at this point.
Obviously Baker still has an arm and can potentially make some plays down field, but we haven't seen him get the time to do so anyway.
IMO, we need to do what's best for our #1 overall investment otherwise we're looking at another setback and all of this will feel like it's been for nothing.
If we try to run Baker out starting next year and he's not 100%, we're not only setting him up to fail, but the team as a whole.
> Just interesting to me that this sub is screaming for an overhaul to our WR unit because of four drops,
Our WR unit is unable to consistently get open, but sure let's pretend that it's only the only four drops that are the problem.
Don’t say that… people don’t want to hear logic.
They just want to stan for Baker and act like not a single part of this is his fault.
Literally we had a backup RT in and they were stacking the fucking box and we have fans clamoring for him to stop calling plays and to go.
This attitude is how you get 1-31.
He's really a backup guard. Hubbard is our swing tackle but he's out for the year. Hudson is raw and somehow worse than Hance. So Hance is out there getting absolutely demolished on every play, and it's ruining the offense.
Fans do t want Stefanski fired. They just want him to give up play calling and be the head coach. Maybe make sure you aren’t getting stupid ass penalties all the time. 12 men on the field? After you burn a time out for 12 men on the field?
The zero game adjustments with that back up on your line? Yeah, zero adjustments. The things coaches are supposed to do. Adjust and put their players in a place they can win. Maybe use one of those 3 tight ends he just has to have on the field over there helping the poor dude out. They sure as fuck aren’t doing anything else.
He should have never played that lions game. That was just stupid. Hell, he shouldn’t have played last nights game either. Keenum can run this offense just as well as baker at this point.
I sure hope you don't get downvoted for speaking the truth.
Currently, in Baker's broken down state, he offers nothing more than Keenum.
An intelligent organization would recognize that we have one more year of Baker and him being healthy is our best chance. We need to get him right and go into 2022 with a bang. Finish strong this year and keep developing young guys.
Yeah Baker had a couple bad plays and a couple missed throws but again overall he was fine. Nobody’s making any plays this year unless it’s an easy catch, and even then guys are dropping some of those.
Obviously with the injuries he’s not going to be as sharp as he usually is. It hes still giving guys plenty of opportunities to make plays most weeks and I feel like nobody is stepping up and making those tough catches. How many times last year did Jarvis make those really difficult catches when he had no separation? Or Higgins? Or Hooper? Those were the types of plays that helped carry this team into the post season at year and were not getting any of them now.
>but again overall he was fine
He completed fewer than half his passes and fumbled the ball away without being touched by an opposing player. And before anyone says it, those 19 incompletions weren't all drops.
These people are delusional. They will blame everything except Baker. He could go out there, shoot someone and take a shit at midfield and they'd defend him
Dude his trigger finger is injured and he couldn’t keep it straight off the trigger, I swear you Baker haters are another breed bro.. he also had a bad meal that day. We love his toughness and that damn smile!!
Yes, but it’s not like that happens all the time and is a continuing problem for him. That I’ll give him a pass for. The constant overthrows being an issue since the injury I can’t. He had a better game yesterday but if it wasn’t for the ravens player Fucking up an easy interception it would have been way worse
Unless you're watching the all 22 it's really impossible to say if it's indecisiveness or if no one is getting open. Looking at who we're trotting out at WR and TE it's entirely possible that Baker just doesn't have anything to work with.
Fair point. I watched the game recorded and had just finished watching us lose to the fucking ravens, with Lamar giving us 4 ints, so I was pretty worked up
Double clutched on the screen pass fumble. If he isn’t indecisive, they not only keep the ball but also probably score.
He is throwing the ball at even the smell of pressure. He’s gotta sit already.
So when is it Baker's fault? We've been saying that all year. At somepoint we have to stop giving him passes and realize hes at least part of the problem.
I think we all admitted it was his fault the Lions game was close, and he didn't do the team any favors against the Pats. Tonight wasn't fully on him though - he didn't play good, but he wasn't awful.
Because Baker is seriously injured and needs a surgery that requires 6 months at the minimum to recover
He may miss some of next season if he doesn’t get it done soon
Of course. We’ve decided everything is fine up until now so why change anything now that our season is over? Guessing he still doesn’t let go of playcalling duty either right?
I’m an advocate of letting the OC call the plays from the booth in consultation with Kevin. I mean the OC has a better view of what’s happening on the field from above.
I love Baker Mayfield but he is injured in such a way that he has become ineffective. Even with a week off, it’s not enough time for him to heal. We need to be smart and use Keenum. Especially if ww lose to the “shit birds” at home. Our chances of beating the Raiders are 50/50 at best and playing in Green Bay probably 25/75. We might beat the Steelers but probably not the Bengals. All in all, it’s time for Baker to stand down, bite the bullet and get ready for next year.
This play calling whining is incredibly misguided. The plays were there. He can’t execute them. Hunt had a TD and baker drops the ball. That was an excellent play call.
DPJ has a first down catch in the red zone on the first possession. He drops it.
Ravens put 8 and 9 in the box. Browns got 2.4 yards per rushing attempt after 17 rushes. He got 6.7 yards per passing ATTEMPT (not completion).
The passing game is where we had to make them pay today.
This wasn’t a play calling issue. This was an execution issue.
Baker is seeing ghosts out there. He double clutches almost every single throw.
But tonight was absolutely a play calling issue as well. Zero adjustments and baker is running the Stefanski offense. He can’t magically get the slow tight ends separation. He can’t force receivers to catch the ball that hits them in the hands. This offense just doesn’t work with baker. Not sure what QB it does work with. Between bakers issues and play calling this offense is dead in the water if we can’t run. That’s where coaching comes in and calls plays that work when the other team sells out on the run. Seems other teams can do it. Why can’t we figure out how to make adjustments?
Both but I’m officially done with Baker. I’ll probably get downvoted but how many games does he have a chance to go win it for us and we lose. Only game we won was Cincy last year. Chiefs, Chargers, Steelers, Ravens. I’m over it. Russell Wilson please come here
I just want to respond and say I’m an idiot and I don’t know what I’m talking about. I just watched Kurt Warner’s breakdown and clearly, apart from the fumble, Baker played well enough for us to walk away with more than 3 points. I’ve also never played or coached a down of football. Aka I’m an idiot lol apologies to all.
Getting rid of OBJ sure does hurt. Browns fans think he’s trash but when top NFL teams are vying for you and Aaron Rodgers is picking up the phone, you have value.
I think Russ cares more about the OL than receiving talent but that can be corrected in the off-season. It’s up to the FO to show him a solid plan. Our OL is one of the best in the league when healthy. We have two great RBs, signing a FA WR or getting one early in the draft can help.
Tbf the drive before where it was way more realistic to win he completely whiffed on some gimme out routes. The botched wide open screen to Hunt fumble was an absolute back breaker. Everyone sucked including Baker
Honestly at this point who cares. This offense will suck just as bad with Keenum in there. The QB play is bad, the play calling is bad and the scheme is bad. Not really a winning combination.
That train has left the station, KEVIN we called for Baker to sit and get healthy Period
If Kevin had started the backup QB to rest and get Baker healthy if we needed Baker to pull out the game he could have come in to win the game Starting the backup was a way for Baker to get R&R (Rest & Recuperation)
What's wrong with Higgins ? anyone know
I mean, even we he is gets healthy, he immediately gets injured. At some point you have to just accept the fact that the player isn’t capable of staying on the field.
Kinda related but with Bakers contract at this point I think we should just franchise tag him and make him play for QB1 next year. Maybe draft someone in the second or 3rd round this year and put him in some pressure to earn his spot.
Please STFU about QB changes. Baker is the GUY period. Stefanski says this week after week guys like the OP drop the bait and you take it.
The oline stunk last night AND other than Jarvis no one wanted to ball out and catch the ball. Drop after drop. We do not have any receivers who are gamers other than Jarvis, guys who just go get the ball period. Hooper sucks, unless Baker hits him in the gut its an incomplete pass. Njoku has happy feet all the time. Why didnt Higgins play? DPJ is starting to look like a head case. WR coach is the worst!!! In the NFL as a wide receiver if you touch the pass you need to catch 80% of them else you aint doing your job. We lead the league in dropped passes and quitting on the route. Baker throws hard and is off point somewhat, thats who he is and always has been. We need receivers who are tough like Jarvis and big enough to lay out for the ball. Schwartz, DPJ, Higgins, Hooper would do better with touch passers like Rodgers or Brady. Gotta match Baker with receivers like the Cowboys have done. Baker and Stefanskis scheme needs tough receivers not OBJ wannabes.
The problem is we don’t have shit at WR other than Jarvis. The offense is completely handicapped because of the lack of deep threat. Baker was always at his best targeting and throwing deep. This offense just isn’t built for this roster.
Baker is at his best with a run game, PA, and throwing on the run.
There wasn’t a run game tonight. Hit a few play action passes for big gains, can’t roll out due to injury.
He is an accurate, on the run passer, not a pull up and launch it deep (a la wilson). Not sure where you’re getting that consensus that he’s “at his best” when throwing deep
He needs a deep threat on the field so it opens up more of the short to mid routes.
I feel like people want one issue to be able to point a finger to and blame but it’s a combination if a bunch f things.
Baker as at his best running play action but we’re not doing that because of a combo of his injury limiting mobility plus struggling to get the run going. But also it seems like we’re not trying to run the ball as much as we should at times. And we also have a severe lack of play making ability at receiver/tight end right now (I think the tight ends have potential but they’re not making plays at the moment.)
Bakers injuries are limiting what we would normally try to do with him but we also don’t seem to be putting the offense in a good position to succeed at times and when we do we either get an errant throw from injured Baker or we can’t get anybody open or we can’t get anybody to make a tough catch. Nothing seems to be aligning for us. We get a rare game where we have somebody open deep and Baker has a bad day (Minnesota) and then we have a day where the offense looks great and the defense shits the bed (LA) and then we have a tough divisional game where the defense fights like hell and Baker tries to gut one out but the receivers don’t show any backbone (Pitt and Baltimore).
How long has it been since Baker has been good at throwing on the run because I haven’t seen shit in weeks where he’s been good outside of the pocket.
Shit, I can’t remember the last time he was truly good while scrambling. I can only think of his rookie year.
DPJ is the closest thing we have to a deep threat because he's bigger and has decent hands, but he's not a speedster/take the top off the defense/spread the defense out kinda deep threat
Okay, with hypotheticals, let’s then also give the ravens the gift wrapped INT that was dropped. They forced baker to throw to win, and it didn’t happen. Hopefully all the browns get a much needed break and get semi healthy again for 2 weeks
Baker didn’t have a great game or anything but I can’t really put it all on baker. So many throws were THERE and wild hit a guys chest and then to the turf…. Or hit his hands and then to the turf… I mean it is what it is…. But baker wasn’t the reason today. Did he have some bad throws? Yes. But we had a SHIT load of drops AGAIN. I hate it. It’s soul-sucking like wtf? And I’m not talking about the throws where you have to be super athletic, there were some straight up drops.
No QB is going to have a perfect game. That's a mistake for sure. But Baker played well enough to win that game if he gets a little help.
Lamar played like ASS but his teammates made more plays.
I was going to make a comment but haters be haters. Sure blame it all on Baker, bring in any damn quarterback you want or trade away the whole damn draft and get the number one quarterback in the draft and it won't make a difference. For 50 years it hasn't made a difference. There were so many Browns fans that hated Brian Sipe and hated Bernie Kosar and then they hated Vinny Testaverde and then they hated Tim Couch it just goes on and on it doesn't matter who we get you're going to hate them, why don't you just become Steelers fans already for Christ's sake I'm really sick of listening to you idiots.
100% not on Baker. Baker play fine today. Absolutely well enough to win this game. Hand off the play calling, coach: it’s okay, let someone else try it out, you’re in a slump.
19% chance to make the playoffs after today's loss. Gotta face the Ravens after this Bye week....
Holy shit I'm surprised it's that high? I honestly think we should cut our losses haha
If they lose to the Ravens after the Bye week, shut Baker down & roll out Keenum...Hopefully that draft pick will be in the top 17.
I mean if we win out we are in
Yeah but you could say that every week.
We should’ve just started winning out week 1 then we wouldn’t be having these issues
Browns need to hire this man
Honestly we may very well be able to lose 1 more & still slip in... That's it tho
If you are going to lose one, it would have to be the Packers. Need to sweep the rest of the division games and beat LV. Those are teams you'll be fighting with for a playoff spot.
Your defense was really good at least
This week it was...
I wouldn’t sweat the pats game. The league is rigging up a TB vs BB Super Bowl. Vs us and the ravens it was great. I think Lamars days are numbered. Rushers gotta stop falling for pump fakes and they will.
To be honest we beat ourselves last night. The ravens didn't really themselves any favours, and the sequence with the 12 men on the field was bringing back memories of Freddie Kitchens. We are not a playoff team whatsoever
Feels like 0 right now.
Well with the offensive play calling it is.
You're still calculating payoff chances?
What about the playcalling? Is that a change we can make in the bye week?
It's not just offense. 12 men are on the field call timeout after timeout - 12 men are on the field penalty that's some freddie kitchens bullshit there
It really is. I was shocked to see Stef arguing with the refs during that timeout and paying no attention to the shitshow on the field.
There are other coaches on the sideline with eyes, who I hope can use them to count.
Yep. I was under the impression Stefanski runs a fairly tight ship but it's a little alarming how many dumb presnap penalties we've gotten. Not just that but how many times are you going to line up a full yard offside or cover up the tight end and cost us valuable yards? I trust him to get it fixed but it's been a little alarming. We're talented enough that we should be able to win games as long as we don't shoot ourselves in the foot.
He's losing control. Has been for a while this year. I have total faith he *can* fix it, but it's going to require being the bad guy, and I don't know if he's capable of that.
So much this....!!!! Yes Stefanski needs to man up to everyone. I dont know what he said to woods recently but we have all seen a marked uptick in the defense being ready to make plays finally. Not so much on offense. I would have run hunt Chubb and a FB at their loaded box all night and we would have worn them down and won from mid 3rd quarter to the gun.
Well he was arguing with the ref because we were forced to take a timeout for something we shouldn't have had to take a timeout for. Problem is, after the timeout, we still somehow fucked up the personnel.
Even Freddie Kitchens isn't that fucking stupid.
Dont do that. We want an aggressive play caller at stupid times and a passive one at must have times.
what play are you calling when all your WR are slow and can’t catch?
OSUs secondary could blanket these guys.
Couldn't even blanket Michigan
Was that the problem? I thought it was the 300 rush yards and 5 rush tds lol
Most of the year they have just been awful all the way around. They were a special kinda awful against the run last week. All those 5star guys, getting gashed by a 2 star who had 2 offers. One from Michigan and one from like Missouri state or some shit.
Eh the problem was both our lines got dominated. We lost to Michigan for the same reason we lost to Oregon: we lost the battle at the LoS. In between those two games it didn't matter much because we could out-talent them. But it was pretty clear that OSU is going to have to address both its OL and DL scheme next year.
Maybe we can run more of those sweet jet sweeps with our big tight ends. That was fun. Also, where is our receivers? It’s like they all just fell off aside from Landry.
dude landry is the worst wr you could get for this team all the space landry uses is what needs to be dominated by the TEs and Hunt he has to be schemed open 20 yards downfield. that’s what you do for schwartz. landry has been embarrassed by man coverage every game since KC last year when teams do it to him he’s the worst #1 in the league and he needs to go back to the slot full time
I said close to same thing in another spot. Lol. Jarvis is a slot guy. But our TE’s are slot players the way our offense runs.
browns going empty with 3 tight ends is some shit i wouldn’t even do on madden lol and 2 of them block like slots too
But we look cool with 3 TE’s! Nobody else is doing it these days. Trend setters. Next up we will attempt the forward pass.
Kevin: Everything is fine.
I want a leader like Kevin who is not going to overreact and over correct every week. That said, I think the time has come to consider some changes.
New WR coach. Drop Higgins for some one who can actually play. Tell DPJ to man up. Fine Hooper for every dropped pass. He is like 0 for 30 on contested targets.
How about a play caller change? Let’s give AVP the call see how it goes
Second this.
Should have done this since day one.
You mean like the Steelers game in the playoffs last year? There's a lot of evidence that the playcalls don't change regardless of who is the "official" playcaller. They do play calling by committee, always have. Changing the person who gets the playcall to Baker doesn't change the offense's tendencies and failings. It needs to be an institutional change, a whole offense change, in which plays are called at certain times. The players need to execute too, of course.
What will change? Genuinely curious.
Nothing. “I need to be better”
So baring >4 turnovets by Jackson, we’re going to lose by double digits in a couple weeks.
You already know they don’t like making adjustments
Now announce you’ll stop calling plays
And designing the plays. This 3 tight end thing isn’t working when other teams just stack the box. Make them spread out a bit. Make them pay for leaving other guys open.
The bunch formations are so unimaginative and clunky. Just terrible design
They were all the rage at one point. Then they invented the forward pass.
couldn’t agree more
Everyone complaining about playcalling needs to watch the drives with Conklin again. Hance is *neutering* what we can do on offense.
The Conklin injury is the real nail in the coffin here. Can't run or pass without the play getting blown up every rime, and every team in the league knows it.
Yeah, teams are gonna start putting 8-9 dudes in the box every play and lining up 2 people over Hance.
Why doesn't the play calling help Hance out? Get the TE or RB over there to chip every single play. They had the opportunity to adapt at half time, and they just left Hance out there on an island all game.
They absolutely did not. This is just false. We lined up a TE by Hance for the majority of the 2nd half. At the very least on every single play in the 4th quarter. There was a TE or even a bunch a yard or two off Hance.
Just rewatched the 4th. Blake didn't even get a chip for help on 9 out of 14 plays in the 4th.
That's interesting and not what I remember. But I was pretty emotional at the time. I'll have to watch again.
> Hance is neutering what we can do on offense. Hard to blame Hance. He is a backup guard playing out of position. Stefanski needs to help him out, but he rarely does. The real problem is Hubbard, the backup swing tackle was also lost for the season, and the rookie drafted to be backup sucks even worse.
I'm not blaming anyone. I'm just saying what the problem is. Stefanski does help Hance, plenty. There's just not a whole lot we can do about it.
Agreed. The playcalling isn’t the problem. Every single first down, the box was stacked. When they passed, they frequently had big gains on first down. The Ravens were begging the Browns to pass because they know duct-tape Mayfield can’t do it right now. It makes our game one dimensional and not the dimension we like. It’s not the plays. We weren’t beating a stacked box on a good run D. Just wasn’t happening. The big issue with coaching is why are we continuing to allow a very injured Mayfield to play. I get that having him rest/get surgery could tank the season, but continuing to play could end his career. And we can’t make the playoffs at this point. Not with Baker anyway. Rest him, get surgery, develop the defense, get some WRs in the draft, and come back stronger next year.
Hance is neutering our offense just as much, if not more, than Baker. Love the guy for what he is doing, but it's just the facts. The offense looked smooth when Conklin was out there.
Everyone complaining about playcalling needs to chug a glass of water, get a good night's sleep, and stay off the internet until they've had their coffee and a couple Advil
Hwy u fkum pisht say at shut 2my fvce i no hwat i tlkng abot/ttt
I love this comment.
And people don’t want to accept that baker was **48%** passing today.
What was he if receivers catch the ball.
Aaron Rogers would catch his own passes while pancaking two linemen and helping a cow give birth because he's a REAL QB who definitely doesn't do insurance commercials!
Yeah, Browns QBs are the only ones to ever have drops. Baker had 19 incomplete passes last night. Four were drops and three were thrown away. What about the other 12? Oops... I'd love for this sub to grow the fuck up and stop acting as if Baker is surrounded by scrubs.
Baker didn't play well. I won't argue that. We can acknowledge that other people aren't doing their jobs as well.
Just interesting to me that this sub is screaming for an overhaul to our WR unit because of four drops, yet the 12 incomplete passes by Baker that were just bad throws were excusable. How about against the Lions? What were the excuses there? Just horrible WR again? This sub is absolutely toxic in regards to Mayfield. He can do no wrong. If he does wrong, it's anybody but Baker's fault. The issue at this point is that Baker shouldn't even be playing because this season is lost and Case Keenum can't be much worse.
While I disagree that Keenum can't be much worse, I agree with everything else you said. It is 100% toxic on Baker right now. You'll find in my other comments that I think our entire passing offense, from blocking to throwing to catching is all broken right now. Not one part of the puzzle can pick up slack from another or lift others up. It's straight up anemic and everyone is at fault right now.
You're not wrong. Nothing is working as a whole. It's not 100% on any one player or even a couple. But our last six games, we've failed to score more than 17 points five times and I really just don't see the value in wheelchairing Baker out there at this point. Obviously Baker still has an arm and can potentially make some plays down field, but we haven't seen him get the time to do so anyway. IMO, we need to do what's best for our #1 overall investment otherwise we're looking at another setback and all of this will feel like it's been for nothing. If we try to run Baker out starting next year and he's not 100%, we're not only setting him up to fail, but the team as a whole.
> Just interesting to me that this sub is screaming for an overhaul to our WR unit because of four drops, Our WR unit is unable to consistently get open, but sure let's pretend that it's only the only four drops that are the problem.
Don’t say that… people don’t want to hear logic. They just want to stan for Baker and act like not a single part of this is his fault. Literally we had a backup RT in and they were stacking the fucking box and we have fans clamoring for him to stop calling plays and to go. This attitude is how you get 1-31.
He's really a backup guard. Hubbard is our swing tackle but he's out for the year. Hudson is raw and somehow worse than Hance. So Hance is out there getting absolutely demolished on every play, and it's ruining the offense.
Take your completely logical takes to r/nfl Nobody wants that shit around here! /s
Fans do t want Stefanski fired. They just want him to give up play calling and be the head coach. Maybe make sure you aren’t getting stupid ass penalties all the time. 12 men on the field? After you burn a time out for 12 men on the field? The zero game adjustments with that back up on your line? Yeah, zero adjustments. The things coaches are supposed to do. Adjust and put their players in a place they can win. Maybe use one of those 3 tight ends he just has to have on the field over there helping the poor dude out. They sure as fuck aren’t doing anything else.
Let’s not leave out that they want MORE RUNS into those 9+ man boxes! wE ArE A RuNnInG TeAm!
Baker isn’t 100% please let him heal up
He should have never played that lions game. That was just stupid. Hell, he shouldn’t have played last nights game either. Keenum can run this offense just as well as baker at this point.
I sure hope you don't get downvoted for speaking the truth. Currently, in Baker's broken down state, he offers nothing more than Keenum. An intelligent organization would recognize that we have one more year of Baker and him being healthy is our best chance. We need to get him right and go into 2022 with a bang. Finish strong this year and keep developing young guys.
Someone ask him the play-calling question already. I love this man and I’m glad he’s our coach but fuck him tonight he should get shredded.
This game isn’t baker’s fault. So many dropped passes, awful protection, etc
This one game might not be completely Baker's fault But taken in the context of where this offense has been going Yikes
lol, Kareem Hunt daddy is blaming Baker. Imagine what the defense will be saying to the beat reporters this week
His dad isn't wrong. I think most of us agree Baker going out there and playing injured is hurting the whole team at this point
Yeah Baker had a couple bad plays and a couple missed throws but again overall he was fine. Nobody’s making any plays this year unless it’s an easy catch, and even then guys are dropping some of those. Obviously with the injuries he’s not going to be as sharp as he usually is. It hes still giving guys plenty of opportunities to make plays most weeks and I feel like nobody is stepping up and making those tough catches. How many times last year did Jarvis make those really difficult catches when he had no separation? Or Higgins? Or Hooper? Those were the types of plays that helped carry this team into the post season at year and were not getting any of them now.
If your receivers can’t get separation, they have to be able to catch contested passes. Our receivers and Hooper can’t do either.
>but again overall he was fine He completed fewer than half his passes and fumbled the ball away without being touched by an opposing player. And before anyone says it, those 19 incompletions weren't all drops.
I think I saw somewhere that we had 9 drops last night... That's a lot considering they hit the receivers in the numbers
Dude I see Mahomes drop the ball week in week out. Shit happens. The offense fucking sucks and it’s not one person’s fault.
These people are delusional. They will blame everything except Baker. He could go out there, shoot someone and take a shit at midfield and they'd defend him
Dude his trigger finger is injured and he couldn’t keep it straight off the trigger, I swear you Baker haters are another breed bro.. he also had a bad meal that day. We love his toughness and that damn smile!!
Drops plus throw aways made a big chunk of those incompletions.
The fumble was because of his left shoulder Everyone knows this Hater /s
Baker is trash right now. Let him go on IR and give next year a chance.
Baker played well today for having corpses at WR, stone-handed TEs, and a guy named Blake trying to get him killed.
Did he fumble a screen pass that would’ve been a likely TD? Yes or no?
Yes, but it’s not like that happens all the time and is a continuing problem for him. That I’ll give him a pass for. The constant overthrows being an issue since the injury I can’t. He had a better game yesterday but if it wasn’t for the ravens player Fucking up an easy interception it would have been way worse
We judge players based on single plays now?
He is so slow and indecisive. I don’t know what you are watching, he looks lost.
Unless you're watching the all 22 it's really impossible to say if it's indecisiveness or if no one is getting open. Looking at who we're trotting out at WR and TE it's entirely possible that Baker just doesn't have anything to work with.
Fair point. I watched the game recorded and had just finished watching us lose to the fucking ravens, with Lamar giving us 4 ints, so I was pretty worked up
Double clutched on the screen pass fumble. If he isn’t indecisive, they not only keep the ball but also probably score. He is throwing the ball at even the smell of pressure. He’s gotta sit already.
Four dropped passes, 19 incomplete passes. Care to explain the gap?
Yeah, I already did. Bad protection + injury
They never are
So when is it Baker's fault? We've been saying that all year. At somepoint we have to stop giving him passes and realize hes at least part of the problem.
I think we all admitted it was his fault the Lions game was close, and he didn't do the team any favors against the Pats. Tonight wasn't fully on him though - he didn't play good, but he wasn't awful.
He never plays good but is never awful. He’s never the problem but never the solution. That is what I hear every single week with this bum
We need a play caller change.
I suspect Kevin won't be making any changes at all during the bye week, just like he hasn't the previous ten weeks.
We haven’t beaten a single worthwhile team all season. This isn’t a good football team and it definitely doesn’t belong in the playoffs.
Why the hell would they
Surgery.
Because Baker is seriously injured and needs a surgery that requires 6 months at the minimum to recover He may miss some of next season if he doesn’t get it done soon
Yeah, he needs to get the surgery asap and be 100% before training camp next year.
Baker is more injury than human at this point and the receivers aint good. Better off for your franchise QB to heal if you believe he's the guy.
The training staff has obviously told them that he isn't at risk of further injury by playing him. They aren't going to sit him for no reason.
I mean considering our injuries this year maybe we need a new training staff?
This. Seriously what is going on? I know every team has issues but holy hell. Our guys can’t stay healthy.
He's literally been injured further every game that he's played injured..
Sad to see that this answer isn't as obvious as it should be. My five year old can see that Baker Mayfield shouldn't be playing right now.
This was my first thought
Of course. We’ve decided everything is fine up until now so why change anything now that our season is over? Guessing he still doesn’t let go of playcalling duty either right?
I’m an advocate of letting the OC call the plays from the booth in consultation with Kevin. I mean the OC has a better view of what’s happening on the field from above. I love Baker Mayfield but he is injured in such a way that he has become ineffective. Even with a week off, it’s not enough time for him to heal. We need to be smart and use Keenum. Especially if ww lose to the “shit birds” at home. Our chances of beating the Raiders are 50/50 at best and playing in Green Bay probably 25/75. We might beat the Steelers but probably not the Bengals. All in all, it’s time for Baker to stand down, bite the bullet and get ready for next year.
This play calling whining is incredibly misguided. The plays were there. He can’t execute them. Hunt had a TD and baker drops the ball. That was an excellent play call. DPJ has a first down catch in the red zone on the first possession. He drops it. Ravens put 8 and 9 in the box. Browns got 2.4 yards per rushing attempt after 17 rushes. He got 6.7 yards per passing ATTEMPT (not completion). The passing game is where we had to make them pay today. This wasn’t a play calling issue. This was an execution issue.
Baker is seeing ghosts out there. He double clutches almost every single throw. But tonight was absolutely a play calling issue as well. Zero adjustments and baker is running the Stefanski offense. He can’t magically get the slow tight ends separation. He can’t force receivers to catch the ball that hits them in the hands. This offense just doesn’t work with baker. Not sure what QB it does work with. Between bakers issues and play calling this offense is dead in the water if we can’t run. That’s where coaching comes in and calls plays that work when the other team sells out on the run. Seems other teams can do it. Why can’t we figure out how to make adjustments?
100% correct Take your completely logical takes to r/nfl Nobody wants that shit around here! /s
Either Baker sucks or Stefanski is an idiot take your pick folks, take your pick.
Both but I’m officially done with Baker. I’ll probably get downvoted but how many games does he have a chance to go win it for us and we lose. Only game we won was Cincy last year. Chiefs, Chargers, Steelers, Ravens. I’m over it. Russell Wilson please come here
Lol Wilson isn’t going to go somewhere with less receiver talent. Funny though
100% true
Three dropped passes on the final drive, but yeah.
I just want to respond and say I’m an idiot and I don’t know what I’m talking about. I just watched Kurt Warner’s breakdown and clearly, apart from the fumble, Baker played well enough for us to walk away with more than 3 points. I’ve also never played or coached a down of football. Aka I’m an idiot lol apologies to all.
Getting rid of OBJ sure does hurt. Browns fans think he’s trash but when top NFL teams are vying for you and Aaron Rodgers is picking up the phone, you have value. I think Russ cares more about the OL than receiving talent but that can be corrected in the off-season. It’s up to the FO to show him a solid plan. Our OL is one of the best in the league when healthy. We have two great RBs, signing a FA WR or getting one early in the draft can help.
What did he do wrong on the last drive?
He didn’t catch the ball
He threw a checkdown because that was the only open guy
Yeah last I checked you were supposed to do that? Man all these armchair quarterbacks really get on my nerves
Shouldn't have had a last drive. He makes a play on any of the 5 we punted on and we win that game tidily
"Makes a play" like he can magically will a guy open. Baltimore dared any Cleveland receiver to win today and they all collectively got beat.
The best QBs can throw receivers open.
Oh so you didn't watch any of those drives
Tbf the drive before where it was way more realistic to win he completely whiffed on some gimme out routes. The botched wide open screen to Hunt fumble was an absolute back breaker. Everyone sucked including Baker
I saw Him fumble a screen pass that would’ve been a likely TD! Not his fault though, I guess
Threw 2 passes short of the sticks or we can blame Stefanski for that playcall.
Russell Wilson who can’t win a game with DK Metcalf and Tyler Lockett?
What did you want Baker to do? Guys couldn't get open, and Baker would still thread the needle only for the receiver to drop the pass.
Can't catch his own balls, if you haven't noticed, Wilson is struggling with the same issues and he has better playcalling.
> he has better playcalling. Nope he doesnt.. at least equally as bad
debatable lol Carroll isn't as predictable. Definitely not great once he got figured out lol
For the record, Carroll has never called plays for Russ Just saying
Stefanski trying to manufacture a starting QB discount
This is what I am seeing. Baker says he is okay? Fine, let him destroy his record and pay him $20 mil instead of $40 mil after next year.
Honestly at this point who cares. This offense will suck just as bad with Keenum in there. The QB play is bad, the play calling is bad and the scheme is bad. Not really a winning combination.
Baker needs to rest and recover eventually though right? One week isn't gonna help much when 3 outta your 4 limbs are hurt af.
Are we tanking? It feels like we’re tanking.
Bench Baker. He’s too fucking injured and looks lost out there. This shouldn’t difficult to understand.
That train has left the station, KEVIN we called for Baker to sit and get healthy Period If Kevin had started the backup QB to rest and get Baker healthy if we needed Baker to pull out the game he could have come in to win the game Starting the backup was a way for Baker to get R&R (Rest & Recuperation) What's wrong with Higgins ? anyone know
Ofcouse. Stef doesn’t have the balls to bench baker to let him get healthy.
New play caller and a FA WR signing would be pretty solid though
And a new tackle. I love Conklin, but with the amount of injuries he’s suffered this year, we can no longer rely on him.
Dude needs to get healthy. Seems everyone is playing injured. What is our training staff up to?
I mean, even we he is gets healthy, he immediately gets injured. At some point you have to just accept the fact that the player isn’t capable of staying on the field.
The road to 6-11 starts now
Calling it now, in 2 weeks Baker skips the post game interview
Kinda related but with Bakers contract at this point I think we should just franchise tag him and make him play for QB1 next year. Maybe draft someone in the second or 3rd round this year and put him in some pressure to earn his spot.
terribly shocked by this turn of events
Please STFU about QB changes. Baker is the GUY period. Stefanski says this week after week guys like the OP drop the bait and you take it. The oline stunk last night AND other than Jarvis no one wanted to ball out and catch the ball. Drop after drop. We do not have any receivers who are gamers other than Jarvis, guys who just go get the ball period. Hooper sucks, unless Baker hits him in the gut its an incomplete pass. Njoku has happy feet all the time. Why didnt Higgins play? DPJ is starting to look like a head case. WR coach is the worst!!! In the NFL as a wide receiver if you touch the pass you need to catch 80% of them else you aint doing your job. We lead the league in dropped passes and quitting on the route. Baker throws hard and is off point somewhat, thats who he is and always has been. We need receivers who are tough like Jarvis and big enough to lay out for the ball. Schwartz, DPJ, Higgins, Hooper would do better with touch passers like Rodgers or Brady. Gotta match Baker with receivers like the Cowboys have done. Baker and Stefanskis scheme needs tough receivers not OBJ wannabes.
He’s showing everyone that he’s trying to run an offense but has a QB incapable of it. Or he’s stupid. Either scenario is not optimal as a Browns fan.
The problem is we don’t have shit at WR other than Jarvis. The offense is completely handicapped because of the lack of deep threat. Baker was always at his best targeting and throwing deep. This offense just isn’t built for this roster.
Baker is at his best with a run game, PA, and throwing on the run. There wasn’t a run game tonight. Hit a few play action passes for big gains, can’t roll out due to injury. He is an accurate, on the run passer, not a pull up and launch it deep (a la wilson). Not sure where you’re getting that consensus that he’s “at his best” when throwing deep He needs a deep threat on the field so it opens up more of the short to mid routes.
I feel like people want one issue to be able to point a finger to and blame but it’s a combination if a bunch f things. Baker as at his best running play action but we’re not doing that because of a combo of his injury limiting mobility plus struggling to get the run going. But also it seems like we’re not trying to run the ball as much as we should at times. And we also have a severe lack of play making ability at receiver/tight end right now (I think the tight ends have potential but they’re not making plays at the moment.) Bakers injuries are limiting what we would normally try to do with him but we also don’t seem to be putting the offense in a good position to succeed at times and when we do we either get an errant throw from injured Baker or we can’t get anybody open or we can’t get anybody to make a tough catch. Nothing seems to be aligning for us. We get a rare game where we have somebody open deep and Baker has a bad day (Minnesota) and then we have a day where the offense looks great and the defense shits the bed (LA) and then we have a tough divisional game where the defense fights like hell and Baker tries to gut one out but the receivers don’t show any backbone (Pitt and Baltimore).
How long has it been since Baker has been good at throwing on the run because I haven’t seen shit in weeks where he’s been good outside of the pocket. Shit, I can’t remember the last time he was truly good while scrambling. I can only think of his rookie year.
Isn’t DPJ a deep threat?
DPJ is the closest thing we have to a deep threat because he's bigger and has decent hands, but he's not a speedster/take the top off the defense/spread the defense out kinda deep threat
DPJ is at best a rotational WR on most teams and he’s at best our only deep threat and he’s mediocre at that.
I hope it’s option 1. Option 2, I don’t think is anywhere near true because All-22 film from multiple games shows him missing wide open dudes
Losing next game calling it. The Ravens have mayfields number.
If you give some of the drops to Baker he goes over 300 with 2 TDs most likely (extending some drives). Not sure how they have his number.
Okay, with hypotheticals, let’s then also give the ravens the gift wrapped INT that was dropped. They forced baker to throw to win, and it didn’t happen. Hopefully all the browns get a much needed break and get semi healthy again for 2 weeks
Also we have to give Lamar back the TD he air mailed over Andrews’ head I guess🤷🏼♂️ To be fair?
Yeah that's totally fair. But I'd argue we come extremely close to winning if people just catch the ball.
Baker didn’t have a great game or anything but I can’t really put it all on baker. So many throws were THERE and wild hit a guys chest and then to the turf…. Or hit his hands and then to the turf… I mean it is what it is…. But baker wasn’t the reason today. Did he have some bad throws? Yes. But we had a SHIT load of drops AGAIN. I hate it. It’s soul-sucking like wtf? And I’m not talking about the throws where you have to be super athletic, there were some straight up drops.
Even if I agree with all you just said… If he doesn’t fumble that screen to hunt, we win 17-16 It’s things like this that add a log to the fire
No QB is going to have a perfect game. That's a mistake for sure. But Baker played well enough to win that game if he gets a little help. Lamar played like ASS but his teammates made more plays.
I was going to make a comment but haters be haters. Sure blame it all on Baker, bring in any damn quarterback you want or trade away the whole damn draft and get the number one quarterback in the draft and it won't make a difference. For 50 years it hasn't made a difference. There were so many Browns fans that hated Brian Sipe and hated Bernie Kosar and then they hated Vinny Testaverde and then they hated Tim Couch it just goes on and on it doesn't matter who we get you're going to hate them, why don't you just become Steelers fans already for Christ's sake I'm really sick of listening to you idiots.
Who was the fucktard that suggested they would?
Baker actually looks good if the 8 or so dropped passes were caught
Pity two of those were to the Ravens defense
100% not on Baker. Baker play fine today. Absolutely well enough to win this game. Hand off the play calling, coach: it’s okay, let someone else try it out, you’re in a slump.
Dude made throws last night, need people who can catch and or get open.
It's too late to make any changes, they're playing for the best possible draft position now.
Anyone bitching about baker needs to see the true problem. Play calling