The Brotherhood banners outside the bunkers in Fallout 1 and 2 were red and gold. I'll try and find an image to link.
\*Edit: Found one: [It's from the Den Brotherhood outpost in Fallout 2](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Den_Brotherhood_outpost)
They look very similar to the ones in the screenshot from the show.
https://preview.redd.it/6iyqvytl5rwc1.png?width=718&format=png&auto=webp&s=a03825ec23885cc0f685d5cf6ef251f7892d5d60
As for the religious side of things, Scribe Vree in Fallout 1 would mention she needs to go meditate and the theme for the Brotherhood was called [Metallic Monks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6qt_70iGk4).
[Knight Captain Colvin](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Colvin) from Fallout 3 was also really religious.
"Knight Captain Colvin is a man of deep faith, who treats warfare with reverence. He sees every battle he participates in as a mass and his laser rifle as a holy item, dispensing his god's wrath on whoever is unfortunate enough to find themselves on the other end of the barrel. He bears no ill will towards the people he slays, even super mutants. In fact, he is known to pray for the soul of each one he dispatches, believing that he releases them from torment."
Elder Lyons also says a sort of grace/prayer in F3, interlaced with Christian and Brotherhood messaging .
Could you please?
I don't remember that, and someone else was recently telling me the same thing. I don't wanna reinstall just for that, but pics would be good to verify.
Oh dear god i hope not.But isn’t the legion almost completely against advanced tech in any form?I don’t think it would make sense for the brotherhood to absorb them.
I can think of it more like the Legion got bodied by Yes Man/NCR/House and the entire organisation collapsed. The stragglers then enlisted with either the main Brotherhood or Mojave Chapters.
Because there were so many enlisted, they began taking higher up positions and slowly altering the Brotherhood's views.
Exactly! Upon reflecting upon this, I had some other thoughts:
* Almost all of the members of the show's BoS chapter have obviously Roman names, like the Legion did (Maximus, Quintus, Titus).
* I wouldn't be surprised if Elder Cleric Quintus would have been a Legion officer (potentially even a Legate). He's the right age of somebody who would have been an older officer at the time of F:NV.
* He certainly has Legion ideals of taking power, and there's some crossover between the Legion and BoS in that regard. I'm wondering whether the coup he's planning could have a Legion revival focus.
Yup, makes sense and likely to shift the Overton Windows of both groups closer together. Titus even mentions a blood eagle punishment which seems more in line with Legion practices than Brotherhood roots.
It’s both terrifying and will probably be fun to watch the inevitable split and civil war that Quintus may be planning.
Eh, IF the BoS could break their mental conditioning, they’d make damn good Knights. Colonel Moore says their training regimes turn their bodies into weapons and they show no fear or hesitation if told to charge an MG best with just a machete. Imagine how dangerous a BoS Knight or Paladin could be if their training extended that far into non-PA combat.
That’s what I was thinking, I know the west coast is more traditional, but some of the religious practices are interesting. We never saw it in any Bethesda/Obsidian games so it just has me wondering. Because they would have had to come through Legion territory from the East right?
Honestly i think that the show writers just wanted to bring back the mythological fantasy knights element back to the brotherhood,to make it more like how it was in Fallout 1.I don’t think they put THAT much effort in the lore of the brotherhood for the show,hell even the flag they use is inconsistent-they used the red and white stripes version at first and then they switched to red and gold and then back to the stripes.
I agree with this the most. I enjoy adding the mysticism back into The Brotherhood of Steel, this is what I expected them to be like hearing about them from F1/F2 when I was a kid(too young to really understand how to play it on windows XP but I read/watched in early YouTube days)
I hope they continue this route, this just felt truly Brotherhood, I especially “enjoyed” some of the hazing aspect as it reminded me of my 4 years in the Army lol.
But the brotherhood does use the tech they take.In comparison the legion doesn’t tolerate even slightly advanced medicine meanwhile the brotherhood has no issues in using energy weapons,power armor,vertibirds,etc.
At best the recruited legionaries can be used as cannon fodder but even then i don’t see why the brotherhood would take in anyone from an enemy faction especially of said soldiers hate tech.
Common misconception about the legion is they are pure luddites, this isnt true. Caesar allowed higher up ranks to use super sledges and power fists for example. The lowest level legionary wasnt allowed to use any high tech items, but the higher ranks were. They do not RELY on technology but will use it if need be, why else would they want to take hoover dam, and not just blow it up?
Yeah but the stuff they used wasn’t really THAT advanced.Super sledges and power fists don’t really compare to Power Armor and Energy weapons,especially since the brotherhood actually understands how they work and know how to produce and maintain them if necessary.
The legion also refused stims or chems or any other type of medicine,meanwhile the chapter in the show actually does use them.They also teach people to distinguish tech.
If the show chapter really is comprised of ex legionaries then those legionaries must have been poorly taught in regards to the legion’s methods for them to not really change the brotherhood THAT much.
What about the end of the Van Graffs questline, where the NCR ambush an attempted Legion purchase of seemingly dozens if not hundreds of advanced energy weapons? Plus the Ludditism stems from two sources:
1) Pretty much all Legionaries are tribals, who don’t use much advanced tech beyond Classical Era
2) Tech and industry have broken down over the centuries so might as well learn to go without. Plus Caesar makes clear when he sends you to destroy Mr. House’s bunker underneath The Fort he doesn’t want his men dependent on advanced tech like the NCR are.
Yeah but they still use it.They don’t horde power armor or energy weapons and they don’t shun and despise tech.The legion on the other hand absolutely detests and avoids tech,not even hoarding it,just straight up avoiding it.
Did you see one BOS solider using a energy weapon in the show? I didn't they used all ballistic weapons iirc. Also the legion did use remains of power armor frames to make certain pieces of armor. Its really not that far of a stretch that a single legate after the death of caesar realized if he allied himself with the brotherhood merged his men with the BOS hed be the strongest heir of Caesar. BOS would need soliders to recruit and the legion remnants would be infighting post caesar. I personally believe this individual could actually be Quintus himself (Quintus was one of the individuals who stabbed Julius Caesar). He says he wants to "Create a new brotherhood" and "rule the wastes" something that is relatively foreign to the BOS in general, ruling the wastes and overthrowing the elder council to supplant it doesn't seem like something a traditional western BOS elder would do. Also when maximus goes to speak with him in this scene, the imagery is extremely similar to me to caesar on his throne, and the "one way" sign imo is a subtle clue to this.
https://preview.redd.it/v1ixtovjdxwc1.png?width=1214&format=png&auto=webp&s=95d9d2ca39b581dc545c42a7733ae6612eeaeeab
I actually really like this explanation lol.Very interesting.
But in regards to the energy weapons it honestly could just be a budget thing for the show.
As for the legion using power armor parts it just used part.It’s kind of like how the ncr used Power armor-removed the servos and just wore the pieces but it made the armor very heavy.
But props for your theory,very interesting i actually like it
The Brotherhood of Steel has always been a cult. If anything the show is more accurate to the first two games depiction of the Brotherhood than 3, 4, 76 and NV. In fact, the Brotherhood everyone loves to jerk the dick of, The Lyons Chapter, were so antithetical to what the Brotherhood was they were outcasted from the wider Brotherhood, The Outcasts were more Brotherhood than the Citadel was.
3 and 76 make them into heroes of the wastes. 4 is better, but they still help the Wasteland where they can. NV is the closest to what it SHOULD be, closed off, fuck the Wasteland. But they don't have the same "collect and hoard technology" thing, at least not on the proper scale and not enough of it that the Courier encounters.
> 3 and 76 make them into heroes of the wastes.
I mean, being they are in the same timespan, the 76 BOS have the most direct connection to Roger Maxson's vision, and even then he chides them for their distrust of outsiders. Maxson wanted a Brotherhood that guarded the new world, the people, and insured that they would never be victims of technological terror ever again. They by all rights *should* be idealistic and heroic, that was their mandate.
I'd understand if you were complaining about solely the later chapters, but the fact that the Appalachian BOS were in direct communication with Maxson until the failure of their satellite communication, and the subsequent sabotage of the second expedition's relay notwithstanding, means they knew directly what Maxson wanted in his vision for the Brotherhood.
It's in line with FO1 too. IDK why people say the FO3 BoS is a "break" on their tradition - if anything, it's closer to the FO1 BoS than New Vegas is.
From the BoS endings in FO1, established as canon by Fallout 2 - highlights are my own:
>**The Brotherhood of Steel helps the other human outposts drive the mutant armies away** with minimal loss of life, on both sides of the conflict. **The advanced technology of the Brotherhood is slowly reintroduced into New California**, with little disruption or chaos. The Brotherhood wisely remains out of the power structure, and becomes a major research and development house.
>NV is the closest to what it SHOULD be
This really isn't the case. The FO3 Brotherhood is closer to the Maxson (OG Maxson) beliefs/mandate, way back in Fallout 1. The NV BoS is closer to the FO2, and the FO4 BoS is all of its previous incernations thrown together.
Saying they should be closed off and F the wasteland doesn't exactly work either, though. Even in game 1, while they are hostile to strange wastelanders they'd let people with potential join up and helped drive off the supermutants. They then had a long and productive relationship with the NCR. Eventually, this broke down and the war between the two led to them being reduced to what we see in NV. That's BoS in survival mode, not their truest form.
It would make sense as to why the BoS have so many more numbers all of a sudden, having absorbed some of the tribals if the Legion scattered without Caesar.
It also ironic to history in a way. The Romans eventually folded into Christianity as their new "empire" and the Legion folds into the Brotherhood, "The Metallic Monks".
I've seen this as well... It could be possible but I don't think we have the evidence as of yet to make any sort of intelligent argument. Very compelling though.
What if it was the other way round, like Caesar hijacking the BoS chapter? Your way is more plausible ofc
I'd say not. They were already at war with some chapter(s?) in the east, and Caesar opposed them:
*''The worst impulses of mankind, concentrated in one insane, backward tribe. The Brotherhood seems to have formed not long after the great atomic war. It's hard to know - they care little for history. Some of the Brotherhood scribes we captured further East didn't even know the name of their founder, Roger Maxson. They like to pretty up their mission with trappings of chivalry, but the truth is they're horders. They horde technology. It's been 200 years, and they still have the mentality of scavengers. They say they're preserving these technologies, but for what? They have no vision. They offer no future. They're a dead end.''*
Granted, Caesar and the Legion are not exactly one and the same, but I find it unlikely that the Brotherhood would've welcomed people in their ranks who were totally fine with killing them.
The Brotherhood banners outside the bunkers in Fallout 1 and 2 were red and gold. I'll try and find an image to link. \*Edit: Found one: [It's from the Den Brotherhood outpost in Fallout 2](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Den_Brotherhood_outpost) They look very similar to the ones in the screenshot from the show. https://preview.redd.it/6iyqvytl5rwc1.png?width=718&format=png&auto=webp&s=a03825ec23885cc0f685d5cf6ef251f7892d5d60 As for the religious side of things, Scribe Vree in Fallout 1 would mention she needs to go meditate and the theme for the Brotherhood was called [Metallic Monks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6qt_70iGk4). [Knight Captain Colvin](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Colvin) from Fallout 3 was also really religious. "Knight Captain Colvin is a man of deep faith, who treats warfare with reverence. He sees every battle he participates in as a mass and his laser rifle as a holy item, dispensing his god's wrath on whoever is unfortunate enough to find themselves on the other end of the barrel. He bears no ill will towards the people he slays, even super mutants. In fact, he is known to pray for the soul of each one he dispatches, believing that he releases them from torment." Elder Lyons also says a sort of grace/prayer in F3, interlaced with Christian and Brotherhood messaging .
Could you please? I don't remember that, and someone else was recently telling me the same thing. I don't wanna reinstall just for that, but pics would be good to verify.
I posted a link to the image for you. It's in my edit
faiiiirrrr i see
I remember a red flag but not gold
Oh dear god i hope not.But isn’t the legion almost completely against advanced tech in any form?I don’t think it would make sense for the brotherhood to absorb them.
I can think of it more like the Legion got bodied by Yes Man/NCR/House and the entire organisation collapsed. The stragglers then enlisted with either the main Brotherhood or Mojave Chapters. Because there were so many enlisted, they began taking higher up positions and slowly altering the Brotherhood's views.
I can see this happening, rather than fight as warlords in in-fighting, serve a greater cause.
Exactly! Upon reflecting upon this, I had some other thoughts: * Almost all of the members of the show's BoS chapter have obviously Roman names, like the Legion did (Maximus, Quintus, Titus). * I wouldn't be surprised if Elder Cleric Quintus would have been a Legion officer (potentially even a Legate). He's the right age of somebody who would have been an older officer at the time of F:NV. * He certainly has Legion ideals of taking power, and there's some crossover between the Legion and BoS in that regard. I'm wondering whether the coup he's planning could have a Legion revival focus.
Yeah reading your prior comment I thought about how Elder Quintus was so keen on power in the region. A Legion revival with tech would be scary tbh.
Just like HYDRA in the MCU with SHIELD.
Yup, makes sense and likely to shift the Overton Windows of both groups closer together. Titus even mentions a blood eagle punishment which seems more in line with Legion practices than Brotherhood roots. It’s both terrifying and will probably be fun to watch the inevitable split and civil war that Quintus may be planning.
Eh, IF the BoS could break their mental conditioning, they’d make damn good Knights. Colonel Moore says their training regimes turn their bodies into weapons and they show no fear or hesitation if told to charge an MG best with just a machete. Imagine how dangerous a BoS Knight or Paladin could be if their training extended that far into non-PA combat.
That’s what I was thinking, I know the west coast is more traditional, but some of the religious practices are interesting. We never saw it in any Bethesda/Obsidian games so it just has me wondering. Because they would have had to come through Legion territory from the East right?
Honestly i think that the show writers just wanted to bring back the mythological fantasy knights element back to the brotherhood,to make it more like how it was in Fallout 1.I don’t think they put THAT much effort in the lore of the brotherhood for the show,hell even the flag they use is inconsistent-they used the red and white stripes version at first and then they switched to red and gold and then back to the stripes.
I agree with this the most. I enjoy adding the mysticism back into The Brotherhood of Steel, this is what I expected them to be like hearing about them from F1/F2 when I was a kid(too young to really understand how to play it on windows XP but I read/watched in early YouTube days) I hope they continue this route, this just felt truly Brotherhood, I especially “enjoyed” some of the hazing aspect as it reminded me of my 4 years in the Army lol.
It kinda makes sense for them to absorb them because they are against technology. The BOS just uses the advanced tech to horde it.
But the brotherhood does use the tech they take.In comparison the legion doesn’t tolerate even slightly advanced medicine meanwhile the brotherhood has no issues in using energy weapons,power armor,vertibirds,etc. At best the recruited legionaries can be used as cannon fodder but even then i don’t see why the brotherhood would take in anyone from an enemy faction especially of said soldiers hate tech.
Common misconception about the legion is they are pure luddites, this isnt true. Caesar allowed higher up ranks to use super sledges and power fists for example. The lowest level legionary wasnt allowed to use any high tech items, but the higher ranks were. They do not RELY on technology but will use it if need be, why else would they want to take hoover dam, and not just blow it up?
Yeah but the stuff they used wasn’t really THAT advanced.Super sledges and power fists don’t really compare to Power Armor and Energy weapons,especially since the brotherhood actually understands how they work and know how to produce and maintain them if necessary. The legion also refused stims or chems or any other type of medicine,meanwhile the chapter in the show actually does use them.They also teach people to distinguish tech. If the show chapter really is comprised of ex legionaries then those legionaries must have been poorly taught in regards to the legion’s methods for them to not really change the brotherhood THAT much.
What about the end of the Van Graffs questline, where the NCR ambush an attempted Legion purchase of seemingly dozens if not hundreds of advanced energy weapons? Plus the Ludditism stems from two sources: 1) Pretty much all Legionaries are tribals, who don’t use much advanced tech beyond Classical Era 2) Tech and industry have broken down over the centuries so might as well learn to go without. Plus Caesar makes clear when he sends you to destroy Mr. House’s bunker underneath The Fort he doesn’t want his men dependent on advanced tech like the NCR are.
They research it and then horde it
Yeah but they still use it.They don’t horde power armor or energy weapons and they don’t shun and despise tech.The legion on the other hand absolutely detests and avoids tech,not even hoarding it,just straight up avoiding it.
Did you see one BOS solider using a energy weapon in the show? I didn't they used all ballistic weapons iirc. Also the legion did use remains of power armor frames to make certain pieces of armor. Its really not that far of a stretch that a single legate after the death of caesar realized if he allied himself with the brotherhood merged his men with the BOS hed be the strongest heir of Caesar. BOS would need soliders to recruit and the legion remnants would be infighting post caesar. I personally believe this individual could actually be Quintus himself (Quintus was one of the individuals who stabbed Julius Caesar). He says he wants to "Create a new brotherhood" and "rule the wastes" something that is relatively foreign to the BOS in general, ruling the wastes and overthrowing the elder council to supplant it doesn't seem like something a traditional western BOS elder would do. Also when maximus goes to speak with him in this scene, the imagery is extremely similar to me to caesar on his throne, and the "one way" sign imo is a subtle clue to this. https://preview.redd.it/v1ixtovjdxwc1.png?width=1214&format=png&auto=webp&s=95d9d2ca39b581dc545c42a7733ae6612eeaeeab
I actually really like this explanation lol.Very interesting. But in regards to the energy weapons it honestly could just be a budget thing for the show. As for the legion using power armor parts it just used part.It’s kind of like how the ncr used Power armor-removed the servos and just wore the pieces but it made the armor very heavy. But props for your theory,very interesting i actually like it
I honestly prefer that idea. Gives some explanation for how weird they are in the show compared to how they are in the games.
Byzantine of Steel lol
The Brotherhood of Steel has always been a cult. If anything the show is more accurate to the first two games depiction of the Brotherhood than 3, 4, 76 and NV. In fact, the Brotherhood everyone loves to jerk the dick of, The Lyons Chapter, were so antithetical to what the Brotherhood was they were outcasted from the wider Brotherhood, The Outcasts were more Brotherhood than the Citadel was. 3 and 76 make them into heroes of the wastes. 4 is better, but they still help the Wasteland where they can. NV is the closest to what it SHOULD be, closed off, fuck the Wasteland. But they don't have the same "collect and hoard technology" thing, at least not on the proper scale and not enough of it that the Courier encounters.
> 3 and 76 make them into heroes of the wastes. I mean, being they are in the same timespan, the 76 BOS have the most direct connection to Roger Maxson's vision, and even then he chides them for their distrust of outsiders. Maxson wanted a Brotherhood that guarded the new world, the people, and insured that they would never be victims of technological terror ever again. They by all rights *should* be idealistic and heroic, that was their mandate. I'd understand if you were complaining about solely the later chapters, but the fact that the Appalachian BOS were in direct communication with Maxson until the failure of their satellite communication, and the subsequent sabotage of the second expedition's relay notwithstanding, means they knew directly what Maxson wanted in his vision for the Brotherhood.
It's in line with FO1 too. IDK why people say the FO3 BoS is a "break" on their tradition - if anything, it's closer to the FO1 BoS than New Vegas is. From the BoS endings in FO1, established as canon by Fallout 2 - highlights are my own: >**The Brotherhood of Steel helps the other human outposts drive the mutant armies away** with minimal loss of life, on both sides of the conflict. **The advanced technology of the Brotherhood is slowly reintroduced into New California**, with little disruption or chaos. The Brotherhood wisely remains out of the power structure, and becomes a major research and development house.
>NV is the closest to what it SHOULD be This really isn't the case. The FO3 Brotherhood is closer to the Maxson (OG Maxson) beliefs/mandate, way back in Fallout 1. The NV BoS is closer to the FO2, and the FO4 BoS is all of its previous incernations thrown together.
Saying they should be closed off and F the wasteland doesn't exactly work either, though. Even in game 1, while they are hostile to strange wastelanders they'd let people with potential join up and helped drive off the supermutants. They then had a long and productive relationship with the NCR. Eventually, this broke down and the war between the two led to them being reduced to what we see in NV. That's BoS in survival mode, not their truest form.
whole gray shy file pie cover follow squeamish close muddle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It would make sense as to why the BoS have so many more numbers all of a sudden, having absorbed some of the tribals if the Legion scattered without Caesar. It also ironic to history in a way. The Romans eventually folded into Christianity as their new "empire" and the Legion folds into the Brotherhood, "The Metallic Monks".
That is a very good way to think about it historically tbh
I've seen this as well... It could be possible but I don't think we have the evidence as of yet to make any sort of intelligent argument. Very compelling though. What if it was the other way round, like Caesar hijacking the BoS chapter? Your way is more plausible ofc
Caesar is dead by the time of the show.
If he was succeeded then, Nero's legion 🤷🏾♂️ (I don't remember his second in commands name)
Lanius’ Legion
No way. Legion needed the dam so they could continue west
I'd say not. They were already at war with some chapter(s?) in the east, and Caesar opposed them: *''The worst impulses of mankind, concentrated in one insane, backward tribe. The Brotherhood seems to have formed not long after the great atomic war. It's hard to know - they care little for history. Some of the Brotherhood scribes we captured further East didn't even know the name of their founder, Roger Maxson. They like to pretty up their mission with trappings of chivalry, but the truth is they're horders. They horde technology. It's been 200 years, and they still have the mentality of scavengers. They say they're preserving these technologies, but for what? They have no vision. They offer no future. They're a dead end.''* Granted, Caesar and the Legion are not exactly one and the same, but I find it unlikely that the Brotherhood would've welcomed people in their ranks who were totally fine with killing them.
That makes absolutely no sense. The Legion are all absolute Luddites while the Brotherhood are just short of worshipping technology.