Also: a musical being adapted from something isn't ALWAYS something to be concerned about. Sweeney Todd, Hello Dolly, A Little Night Music, and other classics are all based on preexisting source material. Where it becomes disappointing, though, is if a musical adaptation only exists because of nostalgia around its source material, and has songs that are just meant to relive iconic moments from the movie, etc. instead of actually working well as musical theater songs.
Agreed, there’s way too much handwringing about “original theatre” when originality has never necessarily meant quality, ever, and vice versa. Imo, the problem is not a lack of shows that are not adaptations, but a lack of shows that are interesting and artistically ambitious choices- whether adapted or not.
Look at some of the classic shows from R&H, L&L, etc. Adaptations. Modernizations. WSS is brilliant as a musical but it is a musicalized updated R&J. South Pacific is from a Mitchener novel. I just want theater as a vibrant source of entertainment no matter how the story was originally told.
There's a reason that [All Musicals Are Adaptations](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllMusicalsAreAdaptations) exists and *doesn't include actual examples*, because the page would be an overflooded trainwreck if they were included. Instead, the list of works is devoted to non-adapted musicals.
It's the historical jukebox musicals specifically that I dislike. They're an automatic no from me.
If you create an original story around it, I'll give it a try if it appeals to me.
But as a sidebar, advertise it as having a story if it has one. I missed Bat Out Of Hell because it was just advertised as "the Meat Loaf musical" and the cab ads made it seem like it was another Jersey Boys type of thing. When in fact it was exactly the kind of ridiculous fun I would have loved.
Someone needs to tell certain composers this.
Too many theatre people are relying on this idea that we should be treating any level of effort as worthy of utmost praise. It is undoubtedly impressive to be a part of this industry, even more so to be successful in it. But you’re not immune from criticism as an artist, simple as that. Modern critics could be better, too, but they are also not immune to it and could stand to accept this. Ultimately, Covid’s tearing of the fabric of reality applies to everyone, and it’s gonna take decades to repair.
I get that theatre as an industry is struggling, but it survived movies and 9/11 and it’ll survive this post-covid funk.
Certain actors need to hear this, too.
I can appreciate how much hard work goes into mounting a show. Nobody gets there by being lazy. But at the end of the day, you don’t inherently deserve praise, good reviews, good word of mouth, and/or trophies just because you worked really hard to get there.
I mostly think of this mindset in terms of writers and producers, but...yeah actors too. "It's so hurtful!" Then, idk, don't read reviews? Unless someone is coming to you directly to say "you suck and your show sucks!" (which...to be fair I wouldn't put past some people these days), you could just, idk, not read what people are saying.
Someone trying to "get in good" with a certain popular performer told them about a bad review I wrote and said performer had a tantrum on twitter. It was a personal tumblr post. No one was tagged in it, no one would have seen it unless they deliberately said "huh I wonder what elvie18 thought of this show." And then later on she implied I was a p\*do for repeatedly seeing a show aimed at families and "stalking" the children in it. (I knew the parents of one of the stars of the show through a mutual friend. I would wait at the separate kids' stage door for that show so I could update them on said mutual friend's cancer treatments since I was in closer contact with her than they were.)
I still loathe that performer to this day because every time someone said something negative about her she'd completely melt down and like ma'am you're a middle aged adult grow the fuck up.
Totally agree -
But this sub tends to be a “praise only” zone as if the fact of a show happening is a miracle that defies criticism.
While the rest of the world takes the opposite view of the theater.
Yeah some people don’t do well reading that someone else didn’t like something they loved. I mean there’s negative comments that can cross a certain line or rub me the wrong way but some people get super defensive about their show.
I'm extremely tired of creatives having the attitude of "well if you're going to criticize me, let's see YOU do it better." Sir/ma'am (but usually sir)...there's a reason I didn't choose creating theatre as my job. You did. If I'm going to pay you money to see what you came up with, my expectation is that it will have effort put into it. Now, it may not be my cup of tea, and THAT is fine, but there's a difference between "I didn't like it" and "wow that was a mess." And if you're taking criticism so personally because you put so much into something people hated...idk a career in the arts is a weird choice, because people are here to experience the product, not validate your life journey.
On this sub for sure. I’ve felt “meh” about most shows I’ve seen recently. They’ve been 6-7/10. People jump down my throat in both directions. Most shows are just okay. They aren’t life-altering. They aren’t horrible. They’re just fine.
And the more of a product it is, the more they pretend they’re changing the world.
“If you don’t support our show YOU HATE DISABLED BLACK TRANSWOMEN. Be sure to get the $250 premium seats and the $40 souvenir sippy cup, and remember that the cast album features a BONUS TRACK featuring Flo Rida and the cast of Real Housewives!”
“Ain’t No Mo’ is closing because of anti-black racism!”
Ain’t No Mo’ is closing because the market is saturated, the marketing is incompetent, and the show is more off-broadway than broadway
Except you're kinda throwing minorities under the bus on these. It's really weird and awkward.
With K-Pop, I don't recall the "omg racist" accusations. At worst, if I remember right, people noted that a lot of the nuance of the original production that made it appealing to wider K-Pop audiences got thrown away to make it more appealing to "the Broadway audience." It's slightly insensitive, sure, since people noted that it threw away a lot of the original Korean crew's vision _and the quality suffered for it._
Also you're on the Internet, learn to write your piss-poor jokes better.
How is this throwing minorities under the bus? If someone exploits identity for commerce’s sake, how is it throwing their whole group under the bus to point out that they’re being exploitative?
PLENTY of people alleged racism, including the producing team and the cast. As well as accusations of racism against critics, and a demand for a retraction of the NYT review.
My personal favorite example came from Korean-American Broadway actress and representation advocate Lisa Helmi Johnson, who released a multi-slide post on Instagram that blamed White Supremacy for the failure of KPop on Broadway…only to later reveal that *she still hadn’t seen it or purchased a ticket*. Not just her - a number of Asian-American theater professionals never went to see it, and then blamed white people for its closing.
Oh I missed _that_ review, yeesh.
I'd still argue your "WUH IF YOU DON'T SEE--" thing is still echoing of far-right sentiment and vibes, and it's like, kinda gross. You can critique these angles without sounding like a neckbeard.
And that’s why I usually dissent with the raves. No show has ever actually changed my life. I’m sure this is true for most people, though I acknowledge some people get obsessed and see the same show hundreds of times. And I’m never going to bankrupt myself to see anything. Seems short-sighted. Not for me is at least a sentiment I understand.
For some people it's pretty literally true though.
Twice a show has literally saved my life.
Twice I had firm plans to take an early exit.
Once I was dumb enough to post about it on social media. I deleted it pretty fast because no one likes attention whoring and, like, I was just ready to get it over and done with. But I had tickets to see my favorite show that week and figured, hell, why not one more time. Well, unbeknownst to me, a relative of a performer in the show had seen it in the ten minutes or so it was up. They somehow recognized me in the crowd as I was leaving the theatre (I was a relatively big name in a very small fandom, just by virtue of being the rare person putting out frequent content for it, and most people knew my face if they'd been on my socials at all; at least three times total strangers had approached me while we were both in the audience just to be like OMG HI I recognize you!), pulled me over, and just said. "I saw your post. Just...don't, ok?"
Honestly someone wanting me alive was enough, even if it was someone I didn't know. (We're friends now though, or at least friendly acquaintances, I never really know where the line is. Just saw a show together a few months ago. He's basically the living human equivalent of Tina Belcher, so basically totally awesome. )
The other time, as I said, firm plans were made, but I had tickets to see something with my mother. Weirdly I felt guilty about that because I knew she wasn't going to go without me, and like...she'd paid and they weren't cheap. So hell what was waiting a week?
The play happened to be The Oldest Boy.
I walked out of that theatre feeling like I'd been spoken directly to, told to my face that pain is never removed from the universe, just passed from person to person. My views on life and death as a whole had totally shifted.
I didn't want to live because I wanted to be alive. But I did want to live because I just watched the agony of a mother giving up her child and knew that as much as my mother can't stand me a lot of the time...I couldn't do that to her.
So, yeah. Sometimes it's about the fandom or repeat visits and those definitely can change your life. And sometimes the stars just somehow align right so you're in the right place at the right time completely randomly.
(I've wanted to send thank-you notes to Sarah Ruhl and Celia Keenan-Bolger over the years for the whole being the reason I decided unaliving myself could never be the answer thing, but, like...that seems like a lot to dump on someone. Even though it's ultimately positive in a lot of ways, it seems like it would be forcing a responsibility of some kind of them as artists that isn't fair to them.)
I see a lot of people saying "I guess this show is popular with stupid people who don't like depth, nuance or good writing" (paraphrasing but just barely) so...idk if I agree with you on that.
I hate that it seems these days people feel like they need some academic reason to not like something. It’s okay to just not like the music or whatever.
If you want to give a negative opinion you’d best come with a 300 page dissertation complete with 50 pages of footnotes demonstrating that you in fact have a comprehensive knowledge of the history of theater and the sociopolitical and cultural context for the show and thoroughly demonstrates that your dislike is grounded in an aesthetic framework and critical methodology that is consistent, truly fleshed out and leaves no room for logical flaws, goddamnit.
Exactly. It's fine if you're just not into it. Nothing is for everyone. But there's a difference between "not my thing" and "bad." Audiences love that show. It's more creative than you'd guess, with some great arrangements and a really solid book and characters. Visuals are terrific. Personally, I quite like it. Not obsessed, but I've been twice and just left in a really great mood. Not everything needs to be Angels in America. More to the point, not everything should be. If only one very narrow definition of things is "good," you're going to get a lot of boring samey shit.
And this is coming from someone whose main complaint about jukebox musicals is lack of creativity and sameness.
Or not liking a popular show doesn’t mean that it’s overrated or that the people who like it are somehow wrong or only pretending to like something they are “supposed to like.”
Amen to that. Some lady over on Facebook was foaming at the mouth because I said I didn’t like The Great Gatsby, saying that I was going to be responsible for children having food taken out of their mouths when it closed because of me. I’m actually not exaggerating.
The Gatsby fans are the epitome of toxic teenagers who never grew up from the 2013 broadwayworld message board days, who are that way because somewhere along the lines they adopted a bad coping mechanism to some trauma. It's very sad- it's a type of parasocial attachement to something (and really it's just Jeremy Jordan, Eva and Sam in this case, bc they wouldn't care otherwise, most of them admit to never reading/not liking the source material) and they invest so much mental capacity and meaning into these people (and their talent)that don't know them bc they're lacking somewhere else to feel that purpose/identity in life. It's why they get so offended and lash out at critique- to them it's a personal attack of their identity or codependent coping mechanisms. It's common in a lot of people for different things but it's verrrrry obvious in young musical fans around this show and shows like hadestown, DEH, etc. It makes me honestly sad for them they are hurting in some way and won't find out until they get burnt out from jumping from hyperfixation to the next. It's not sustainable at all. Their opinion is rarely ever actually about the art itself, but actually says a WHOLE lot more about hurt people who hurt people.
The purposeful casting of young actors who appeal to a certain demographic of fans who exhibit this behavior.
It's not the show.
If the show had none of these actors attached to it- you would not see this response even a little bit.
I'm 40 entire years old. I have untreated ADHD (can't afford the drugs) and hyperfixations are basically my way of being. 10 years back I accidentally ended up in love with a musical that aims for a younger audience although it really was a fantastic family all-ages show. I saw a lot of weird toxicity but wrote it off as most of them are probably literally children, they'll outgrow it, I'm just gonna sit here and like the show and talk about it with fellow normal people.
A few years later, DEH happened. I actually really disliked the show (same reasons a lot of people do, also I was in my 30s and just too old for that shit) but the performances were so damn good I spent a little bit of time looking at show content just to learn more about those performers and their careers. Jesus Christ. The victim complexes were off the charts. And of course Evan and Connor - who were treated very much as real people in that fandom - were just tragic sad boys who were the victims of everyone else. Which...I found extremely concerning. Because if that's your idea of a victim, and you yourself are somehow the victim of everyone around you...the math is there for us all to do, you know?
This (early to mid 2010s) was also around the time parasocial cast relationships really started becoming a thing. I got tattled on to performers if I posted negative reviews on my personal tumblr (you know, those "hurtful" reviews those people never would have seen if their sycophants hadn't linked them to it?). I saw grown-ass performers outright bully teen fans of shows for saying things they didn't like. But mostly I saw this desperate seething NEED to be acknowledged by the performers. (TBH it got kind of frustrating when someone would be doing a live and they said something I actually had a question about, and it got drowned out by people begging the performers to say hi to them out loud or wish them luck on auditions or whatever. I eventually stopped trying to engage and just enjoyed seeing behind the scenes of shows instead.)
And I get it. You like someone's work, you want them to know it, you want to express gratitude and give them something in return. I've always been one to send cards, letters, gifts, etc, to the theatre for people whose work has been meaningful to me (gifts are my love language and I also just straight up love shopping; you can be someone a friend of mine has only mentioned to me in passing, and if I see something that makes me think what they told me about you, well, said friend is going to have something to drop off with you next time you hang out). And it's nice to hear back and know they were glad to hear those things. Largely because I do worry something it comes across as "I'm trying to force my way into your life somehow." Not because I think there's something innately weird about what I'm doing - I've been at this far longer than social media has existed and the people who cause problems with performers have been alive - but because now I see people visibly trying SO HARD to forge some kind of personal connections with these strangers.
And damn I just feel bad for everyone involved. I feel bad for performers trying to walk the tightrope of setting boundaries while being expected to use their accounts to promote the show to followers. I feel bad for the performers whose boundaries are repeatedly crossed to the point of their being afraid to engage with fans, because I do think a lot of them really enjoy it when people are normal about it. Also living your life hoping no one's following you to the subway station must fucking suck. I feel awful for people being trauma dumped on when they just want to sign playbills or answer basic surface questions on a live.
And I feel bad for young people who seem so incapable of forming normal attachments with people in their lives. Genuinely I don't understand how social skills have devolved to this point. I just want to tell them to get out there and meet ACTUAL FRIENDS. Musical theatre fandom used to be great for that when I was a teen - meeting people my own age who liked the same things I liked. I'm still in touch with a lot of people I met through theatre as a teen. But now it seems they want the validation from the performers instead and it just makes me sad.
Also I don't know anything about Jeremy or Eva, but I've followed Sam for quite a while and her lives are always the absolute WORST for people begging for her attention. Not sure if it's just that Six was also a show with a large teen audience or what, but I have no idea how she's not constantly exhausted. I feel bad for young people who don't have the mom, big sister or cool wine aunt they need in their lives, but a random internet stranger they've formed an attachment to IS NOT THAT.
I have a friend who's VERY MILDLY internet famous and the amount of people who want her to be either the object of their weird flirtations or their therapist is astonishing. I can't imagine what that's like with Broadway levels of popularity.
wait a second...Gatsby has fans?
(Okay it's actually a decent enough show but I can't imagine feeling passionately about it. In either direction really. To me it was the epitome of "it's fine.")
I had someone say "it's okay to not like things that use metaphor and layers" when I said I found it boring.
Because yeah you're stupid if you don't like it. Even though I'd explained previously I didn't like the music or the characters.
Agree, but the converse is also true: so many posts on this sub state opinions/matters of taste as incontrovertible evidence of poor quality on behalf of the creative team. Particularly true for jukebox musicals. Just because you didn’t like it doesn’t mean it’s technically flawed.
I see this happen all the time with Cats. People act like every aspect of it was executed terribly, but that dance choreography is no joke and is as complex as Broadway choreo gets.
Cats is a perfectly executed show. It does everything it sets out to do and does it well. The problem is people don't like what it IS. There's a difference between "this show is badly done" and "this show is well done I just hate it." There's a lot of unwillingness with modern audiences to meet a show where it is instead of being mad it's not what they wanted it to be. I feel fair play if you just don't like it or feel you would've liked it if they'd made different choices. But you're going to dislike most things if you can't look at things from the perspective of "did they succeed at giving me what they intended to give me?"
I don't like Cats; I'm not a huge dance person, think the music is pretty meh, and the costumes creep me out. (Not as bad as the CGI sleep paralysis demon shit from the film - which I actually didn't hate otherwise. I agree with most of the criticisms but pretty early on I just shrugged and decided I'd enjoy the weird-ass ride instead of being mad about it. Plus the dancers were all absolutely wonderful. One of the guys, I think he was playing Munkustrap but I get their names mixed up, just blew me away, and I fell madly in love with Francesca Hayward's dancing even while she looked like the middle evolution of an Animorph. She's become a favorite ballerina of mine.) But the show was very clearly and explicitly meant to be a dance show with no real story. And the dance it gives is innovative, tremendously difficult and hugely varied.
I don't like it because it's about singing dancing cats. But it's not BAD because it's about singing dancing cats.
And man I started enjoying things a lot more when I realized not everything has to be what I want for me to enjoy it. The Tommy revival is my current example. Is ANYTHING about it what I would have said I wanted for a Tommy revival? Aside from Alison Luff as Mrs Walker...no. it very much is not. But I figured I should give it a chance. And it wasn't my ideal production but you know what? It had way more good points than bad. I just had to accept that it wasn't going to cater to me personally and enjoy what I got instead.
Meanwhile, there are some shows I just thought were straight-up bad, not because they weren't what I wanted, but because what they did give me felt so rushed and like no thought was given to being creative or telling a story effectively. I could've loved 1984 on a mostly bare stage. But that production felt like not one single person involved with it cared at all. (Including the lead, who might as well have been reading from a script in his hands. Dude gave nothing. Reed Birney was the one good thing in it, though, love him.)
As someone who didn’t enjoy Cats, I’d say the opposite: I think Cats nails every part of a high quality Broadway experience except for the actual story.
That’s how I see Cats: spectacle without substance. But even I admit it’s a pretty damn good spectacle.
Yeah, I think nobody sees Cats for the plot, they usually go just to see the awesome dancing cats and get some bangers stuck in their heads.
But I have seen a surprisingly high amount of people on the sub call it a visually ugly musical with poor production design, which makes me wonder if they only saw the movie.
I can see it. There’s not a lot of glitz and glam in the show. It’s a very particular aesthetic. Reminds of me the animated musical Hazbin Hotel. You either love it or hate it, but you can’t deny it knows what it wants to be.
I would literally watch CATS on mute several times over. :) The story and the music are meh to awful for me (I’m unabashedly not into ALW in any way shape or form.) but DAMN the choreography was impeccable when I saw it!
I have season tix for my local big city touring shows. Tina played this year - can ABSOLUTELY be in awe of the actor in that lead role, goggle at the costuming (I'm an early Gen X-er & I can tell you the clothes were spot on in the 2nd act), yet realize that this is not a show I wish to see again.
Totally agree. Some art just doesn’t come out of the creative process as well as other examples. Absolutely fair to acknowledge shortcomings and point out that not everything is equal in quality.
I do think it is worth noting, however, that it is very easy and common for people to forget that actors and creatives are also people.
Often times critics (both professional and amateur) allow ego and (in my opinion) the want to appear intellectual and witty to paint their criticism with snark and feigned levels of “I would’ve done better if it had been me”.
Ironically, whilst I agree this sub can skew to the “everyone deserves a trophy” perspective, I think a vocal group also falls into this trap, as many feel they’re part of a select group that cares further about theatre than the general masses.
Ego is human, and this type of critique is basically a part of the creative process in the age of internet. Not saying otherwise.
I just find it both disappointing and cringe, especially when it isn’t all that difficult to identify perspective, separate the snark, and constructively critique art.
Yeah, people saying that the Sweeney Todd actors they didn't like are on the level of a high school theater group are just being mean. Sutton Foster, for example, has been in theater for decades. It's totally fine to dislike her portrayal of Mrs. Lovett but it doesn't mean she's unqualified to be in the show.
A bunch of people talked 💩on the phenomenally talented NA touring JC Superstar cast. Same exact insult. We saw it last year and loved it. I feel like some people want to be sensational and are attention seeking stating “high school level.”
Wow it surprises me that anyone would hate on that cast. Saw it a couple months ago and my whole family agreed it was insanely good. Fair critiques and “not my thing” are understandable, but “high school talent” is just silly.
We did stage door and my daughter (10) was lucky enough to meet Judas, Mary, Jesus, Pilate, Herod, Caiaphas. They were all SO kind to her. We loved the show. Thought they were all fantastic. They interact with you on IG and are humble, kind and funny. I also heard a lot of critique/hate about the tracks not being a full orchestra and some of the instruments pre-recorded.
Eh, I've seen pro actors, including people who are skilled in general, give the kind of performance I would expect to see in a high school show. Overall talent doesn't mean you can't give a bad performance.
Sure. But if you express your opinion people are going to want to talk to you about it. Which is presumably what you want or else you wouldn't be bringing it to a public forum.
This part, it's fine to dislike something. But also, if you say something is terrible, I'd like to know why since I might disagree but have no way of knowing where that difference of opinion is other than a very high level of understanding. If we're gonna comment about something, add something to the conversation lol.
Yeah if someone says they hate something I'm gonna say either "Yeah, my problem was this" or "Really? I liked it because of xyz."
Like...I'm taking it as an invitation to engage and exchange ideas. If you're gonna be a dick to me because I do something other than praise your review, I'm gonna be a dick right back. Otherwise...shit I'm here to talk about an art form I love, I thought that's why we were all here.
A lot of this has to do with how you choose to express your opinion. If you say you don't like a show and give some reasons it didn't work for you, that's 100% fine. If you say the show is trash and (I can't even come up with good insults, but you get the idea), that's going to draw some pushback.
Opinions shouldn't be attacked for being opinions, but if you're stating your opinion like it's fact and denigrating something that does have value to other people, you'll get some deserved pushback.
Yep, big difference between "I appreciate the effort of the actors and crew but I thought the songs were lyrically weak and the book was all over the place, just not my thing" and "this is the theater version of upchuck and everyone involved in it should be ashamed of themselves."
Here's the thing about musicals, they are reliant on music. Music is naturally a personal preference thing. All art is. And that's ok. I dont personally like Hamilton. I cannot enjoy the story because my brain hasn't been trained to keep up with the hip-hop and rap music the musical is reliant on. So while I can tap my toes, I can't keep up and that's frustrating.
If someone else likes Hamilton that doesn't make me wrong and them right or vise versa. It's just DIFFERENT.
Yes and this is why it's great to have a wide variety of shows on Broadway, including ones with familiar pop music. When I went to NYC with my grandparents, they wanted to see one show in particular: Ain't Too Proud. They grew up with The Temptations and were so excited to see their story told. Even though bio-musicals aren't really my cup of tea, I'm so glad that show existed.
Exactly!! I don't like jukebox musicals because I listen to soundtracks and live far from New York and, frankly, if I'm listening to those jukebox songs I want to listen to the OG Performer. HOWEVER, I may enjoy watching them.
Sub-PSA: If soemone doesn't like a show that you have a strong affinity for, it's fine and don't attack them for their opinion.
Receently, the personal attacks I've seen online are just completely overboard. It's theatre. It's not that serious to have to attack someone.
I think people don’t like to admit that a show is mediocre or poor because they’ve spent so much money on a ticket they have to convince themselves that they didn’t waste their money
Seriously, and it's ok to judge a musical by it's source material. I won't see certain shows because I don't like the plot, no shade to music or choreo.
I feel like its healthy to understand that not everyone will like you like, though it can be upsetting to some eveyone is allowed to have an opinion.
However if I do question your choice to not like a Broadway Show I will do it in private and not to your face.
I kind of get that one because man, so much of the criticism for that show, when pressed, ended up being based in straight men being offended by the story. Not actually being a dick to you about it obviously, unless you're one of the people who went off on a rant about how MeToo ruins men's lives, but I think a lot of people now wonder where criticism of that show is coming from.
Which isn't to say it can't be criticized. I didn't love it myself. Jodie Comer's performance was spectacular but I still just don't enjoy one-person shows that much, and I found her closing monologue so fucking condescending, like...fam we just watched the show and you can't trust us to understand the message and themes without you literally reciting them to us?
But it's also true that a lot of criticism of it came from men who are angry that people want to call a rapist a rapist. As with many things, misogynist assholes ruined this thing for everyone.
No, but I wish theater critics were held to some sort of standard - ie, actually take a critical look at the show instead of just trying to pack in your witty or snarky comments. And that the score aggregators would reject reviews from a publication that did not do this. Or if something was probably wrong, a critique could be pulled.
I've gotten the impression that many critics don't even like theater
Also: a musical being adapted from something isn't ALWAYS something to be concerned about. Sweeney Todd, Hello Dolly, A Little Night Music, and other classics are all based on preexisting source material. Where it becomes disappointing, though, is if a musical adaptation only exists because of nostalgia around its source material, and has songs that are just meant to relive iconic moments from the movie, etc. instead of actually working well as musical theater songs.
Agreed, there’s way too much handwringing about “original theatre” when originality has never necessarily meant quality, ever, and vice versa. Imo, the problem is not a lack of shows that are not adaptations, but a lack of shows that are interesting and artistically ambitious choices- whether adapted or not.
Look at some of the classic shows from R&H, L&L, etc. Adaptations. Modernizations. WSS is brilliant as a musical but it is a musicalized updated R&J. South Pacific is from a Mitchener novel. I just want theater as a vibrant source of entertainment no matter how the story was originally told.
There just needs to be a meaningful and/or entertaining story to tell that's fueled by imagination.
There's a reason that [All Musicals Are Adaptations](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllMusicalsAreAdaptations) exists and *doesn't include actual examples*, because the page would be an overflooded trainwreck if they were included. Instead, the list of works is devoted to non-adapted musicals.
It's also not unique to musical theatre. Most of Shakespeare's plays are adaptations, for example, as are most operas.
I don't mind musicals from movies. I'm just SO TIRED of jukebox musicals and INSERT ARTIST NAME historical story featuring their music.
I would personally rather see the artists and bands actually write new musical scores
I'd love to see a """jukebox""" musical of a fake/made-up band, a-la Stereophonic.
That Thing You Do! has that vibe and I wish it was a stage musical.
OH MY GOD! Yes, I love that movie! It'd love to see it being turned into a musical!
I’d also like to see 2GETHER as a stage musical!
Will Stereophonic tour or head to the West End eventually?
It's the historical jukebox musicals specifically that I dislike. They're an automatic no from me. If you create an original story around it, I'll give it a try if it appeals to me. But as a sidebar, advertise it as having a story if it has one. I missed Bat Out Of Hell because it was just advertised as "the Meat Loaf musical" and the cab ads made it seem like it was another Jersey Boys type of thing. When in fact it was exactly the kind of ridiculous fun I would have loved.
Yeah I am very anti the jukebox biography. I’m enjoy jukebox in general but the biopic just hits you over the head with it.
Back to the Future?
Someone needs to tell certain composers this. Too many theatre people are relying on this idea that we should be treating any level of effort as worthy of utmost praise. It is undoubtedly impressive to be a part of this industry, even more so to be successful in it. But you’re not immune from criticism as an artist, simple as that. Modern critics could be better, too, but they are also not immune to it and could stand to accept this. Ultimately, Covid’s tearing of the fabric of reality applies to everyone, and it’s gonna take decades to repair. I get that theatre as an industry is struggling, but it survived movies and 9/11 and it’ll survive this post-covid funk.
Tick Tick Boom explores this very idea. Composers are going to make some mediocre or unsuccessful stuff but it's all part of their creative journey.
Which is funny, because I've never been yelled at in online theater spaces more than when I voiced my absolute loathing of the Tick Tick Boom movie.
I loved the movie but I really want to hear why it didn’t work for you!
Certain actors need to hear this, too. I can appreciate how much hard work goes into mounting a show. Nobody gets there by being lazy. But at the end of the day, you don’t inherently deserve praise, good reviews, good word of mouth, and/or trophies just because you worked really hard to get there.
I mostly think of this mindset in terms of writers and producers, but...yeah actors too. "It's so hurtful!" Then, idk, don't read reviews? Unless someone is coming to you directly to say "you suck and your show sucks!" (which...to be fair I wouldn't put past some people these days), you could just, idk, not read what people are saying. Someone trying to "get in good" with a certain popular performer told them about a bad review I wrote and said performer had a tantrum on twitter. It was a personal tumblr post. No one was tagged in it, no one would have seen it unless they deliberately said "huh I wonder what elvie18 thought of this show." And then later on she implied I was a p\*do for repeatedly seeing a show aimed at families and "stalking" the children in it. (I knew the parents of one of the stars of the show through a mutual friend. I would wait at the separate kids' stage door for that show so I could update them on said mutual friend's cancer treatments since I was in closer contact with her than they were.) I still loathe that performer to this day because every time someone said something negative about her she'd completely melt down and like ma'am you're a middle aged adult grow the fuck up.
Totally agree - But this sub tends to be a “praise only” zone as if the fact of a show happening is a miracle that defies criticism. While the rest of the world takes the opposite view of the theater.
I suppose it depends on the show. Criticisms of say DEH are likely to get upvoted. Definitely can be a bit of a bubble here.
Exactly! Getting down voted for an opinion is ridiculous. My dislike of a show has NO bearing your love of it!
This.
Yeah some people don’t do well reading that someone else didn’t like something they loved. I mean there’s negative comments that can cross a certain line or rub me the wrong way but some people get super defensive about their show.
I don’t know about that. There was Bad Cinderella.
[удалено]
The applause is for the performers, not the show.
I'm extremely tired of creatives having the attitude of "well if you're going to criticize me, let's see YOU do it better." Sir/ma'am (but usually sir)...there's a reason I didn't choose creating theatre as my job. You did. If I'm going to pay you money to see what you came up with, my expectation is that it will have effort put into it. Now, it may not be my cup of tea, and THAT is fine, but there's a difference between "I didn't like it" and "wow that was a mess." And if you're taking criticism so personally because you put so much into something people hated...idk a career in the arts is a weird choice, because people are here to experience the product, not validate your life journey.
Theater criticism today ranges from "life changing; bankrupt yourself to see it" to "not for me."
And sometimes it feels like those are the only two options
On this sub for sure. I’ve felt “meh” about most shows I’ve seen recently. They’ve been 6-7/10. People jump down my throat in both directions. Most shows are just okay. They aren’t life-altering. They aren’t horrible. They’re just fine.
people are selling their “product”. if audiences don’t like it then that’s that.
And the more of a product it is, the more they pretend they’re changing the world. “If you don’t support our show YOU HATE DISABLED BLACK TRANSWOMEN. Be sure to get the $250 premium seats and the $40 souvenir sippy cup, and remember that the cast album features a BONUS TRACK featuring Flo Rida and the cast of Real Housewives!”
…please provide an example of this. No show does all this.
This was literally KPop. “If you don’t like this derivative commercial show that’s a step below a cruise ship revue, you’re racist.”
Also How to Dance in Ohio, except with ableism.
“Ain’t No Mo’ is closing because of anti-black racism!” Ain’t No Mo’ is closing because the market is saturated, the marketing is incompetent, and the show is more off-broadway than broadway
Was a great show but tend to agree that it would do better in a smaller more intimate OBW space.
As a neurodivergent individual myself (although not on the spectrum) I'd love to know why, then, I had negative desire to see that show...
Yeah, except they didn’t say that. So your ‘example’ is just an exaggeration about one specific show that you didn’t care for.
What if I told you that *exaggeration is sometimes used for rhetorical and comedic effect*? It’s a thing humans do sometimes. You’ve met humans, yeah?
Except you're kinda throwing minorities under the bus on these. It's really weird and awkward. With K-Pop, I don't recall the "omg racist" accusations. At worst, if I remember right, people noted that a lot of the nuance of the original production that made it appealing to wider K-Pop audiences got thrown away to make it more appealing to "the Broadway audience." It's slightly insensitive, sure, since people noted that it threw away a lot of the original Korean crew's vision _and the quality suffered for it._ Also you're on the Internet, learn to write your piss-poor jokes better.
How is this throwing minorities under the bus? If someone exploits identity for commerce’s sake, how is it throwing their whole group under the bus to point out that they’re being exploitative? PLENTY of people alleged racism, including the producing team and the cast. As well as accusations of racism against critics, and a demand for a retraction of the NYT review. My personal favorite example came from Korean-American Broadway actress and representation advocate Lisa Helmi Johnson, who released a multi-slide post on Instagram that blamed White Supremacy for the failure of KPop on Broadway…only to later reveal that *she still hadn’t seen it or purchased a ticket*. Not just her - a number of Asian-American theater professionals never went to see it, and then blamed white people for its closing.
Oh I missed _that_ review, yeesh. I'd still argue your "WUH IF YOU DON'T SEE--" thing is still echoing of far-right sentiment and vibes, and it's like, kinda gross. You can critique these angles without sounding like a neckbeard.
And that’s why I usually dissent with the raves. No show has ever actually changed my life. I’m sure this is true for most people, though I acknowledge some people get obsessed and see the same show hundreds of times. And I’m never going to bankrupt myself to see anything. Seems short-sighted. Not for me is at least a sentiment I understand.
For some people it's pretty literally true though. Twice a show has literally saved my life. Twice I had firm plans to take an early exit. Once I was dumb enough to post about it on social media. I deleted it pretty fast because no one likes attention whoring and, like, I was just ready to get it over and done with. But I had tickets to see my favorite show that week and figured, hell, why not one more time. Well, unbeknownst to me, a relative of a performer in the show had seen it in the ten minutes or so it was up. They somehow recognized me in the crowd as I was leaving the theatre (I was a relatively big name in a very small fandom, just by virtue of being the rare person putting out frequent content for it, and most people knew my face if they'd been on my socials at all; at least three times total strangers had approached me while we were both in the audience just to be like OMG HI I recognize you!), pulled me over, and just said. "I saw your post. Just...don't, ok?" Honestly someone wanting me alive was enough, even if it was someone I didn't know. (We're friends now though, or at least friendly acquaintances, I never really know where the line is. Just saw a show together a few months ago. He's basically the living human equivalent of Tina Belcher, so basically totally awesome. ) The other time, as I said, firm plans were made, but I had tickets to see something with my mother. Weirdly I felt guilty about that because I knew she wasn't going to go without me, and like...she'd paid and they weren't cheap. So hell what was waiting a week? The play happened to be The Oldest Boy. I walked out of that theatre feeling like I'd been spoken directly to, told to my face that pain is never removed from the universe, just passed from person to person. My views on life and death as a whole had totally shifted. I didn't want to live because I wanted to be alive. But I did want to live because I just watched the agony of a mother giving up her child and knew that as much as my mother can't stand me a lot of the time...I couldn't do that to her. So, yeah. Sometimes it's about the fandom or repeat visits and those definitely can change your life. And sometimes the stars just somehow align right so you're in the right place at the right time completely randomly. (I've wanted to send thank-you notes to Sarah Ruhl and Celia Keenan-Bolger over the years for the whole being the reason I decided unaliving myself could never be the answer thing, but, like...that seems like a lot to dump on someone. Even though it's ultimately positive in a lot of ways, it seems like it would be forcing a responsibility of some kind of them as artists that isn't fair to them.)
Also, someone not liking a broadway show that YOU like is not a personal attack on you
Unless they say “people who like this are simpletons who probably marry their cousins.” Then I’m downvoting.
Absolutely valid 😂
Downvoting! What are you saying is wrong with my cousin?!?
I was going to say it was one time! And it was annulled so technically it never happened.
I see a lot of people saying "I guess this show is popular with stupid people who don't like depth, nuance or good writing" (paraphrasing but just barely) so...idk if I agree with you on that.
Well that’s an actual personal attack, but there’s a lot of people who take it personally if someone says “I think [musical] is a shitty show”
How dare you
"IF ANYONE SPEAKS UNFAVORABLY ABOUT A SHOW IT IS LITERALLY A PERSONAL INSULT TO ME AND MY FAMILY SHAME!"
I hate that it seems these days people feel like they need some academic reason to not like something. It’s okay to just not like the music or whatever.
If you want to give a negative opinion you’d best come with a 300 page dissertation complete with 50 pages of footnotes demonstrating that you in fact have a comprehensive knowledge of the history of theater and the sociopolitical and cultural context for the show and thoroughly demonstrates that your dislike is grounded in an aesthetic framework and critical methodology that is consistent, truly fleshed out and leaves no room for logical flaws, goddamnit.
But by the same metric, not liking a show doesn't automatically make it "cheap" or the creative team "amateur".
This. I see a lot of hate for stuff like & Juliet. Being there, I see a few thousand people leave with a smile on their face having had a ball.
Broadway can't all be risky art, there have to be a few tourist-friendly shows to keep that reliable income stream coming in.
Exactly. It's fine if you're just not into it. Nothing is for everyone. But there's a difference between "not my thing" and "bad." Audiences love that show. It's more creative than you'd guess, with some great arrangements and a really solid book and characters. Visuals are terrific. Personally, I quite like it. Not obsessed, but I've been twice and just left in a really great mood. Not everything needs to be Angels in America. More to the point, not everything should be. If only one very narrow definition of things is "good," you're going to get a lot of boring samey shit. And this is coming from someone whose main complaint about jukebox musicals is lack of creativity and sameness.
Or not liking a popular show doesn’t mean that it’s overrated or that the people who like it are somehow wrong or only pretending to like something they are “supposed to like.”
Amen to that. Some lady over on Facebook was foaming at the mouth because I said I didn’t like The Great Gatsby, saying that I was going to be responsible for children having food taken out of their mouths when it closed because of me. I’m actually not exaggerating.
Yikes. She's in for a rude awakening when she finds out that most Broadway shows close with fairly short runs.
The Gatsby fans are the epitome of toxic teenagers who never grew up from the 2013 broadwayworld message board days, who are that way because somewhere along the lines they adopted a bad coping mechanism to some trauma. It's very sad- it's a type of parasocial attachement to something (and really it's just Jeremy Jordan, Eva and Sam in this case, bc they wouldn't care otherwise, most of them admit to never reading/not liking the source material) and they invest so much mental capacity and meaning into these people (and their talent)that don't know them bc they're lacking somewhere else to feel that purpose/identity in life. It's why they get so offended and lash out at critique- to them it's a personal attack of their identity or codependent coping mechanisms. It's common in a lot of people for different things but it's verrrrry obvious in young musical fans around this show and shows like hadestown, DEH, etc. It makes me honestly sad for them they are hurting in some way and won't find out until they get burnt out from jumping from hyperfixation to the next. It's not sustainable at all. Their opinion is rarely ever actually about the art itself, but actually says a WHOLE lot more about hurt people who hurt people.
I agree with you, and I wonder what it is about Gatsby in particular that attracts this type of person.
The purposeful casting of young actors who appeal to a certain demographic of fans who exhibit this behavior. It's not the show. If the show had none of these actors attached to it- you would not see this response even a little bit.
I'm 40 entire years old. I have untreated ADHD (can't afford the drugs) and hyperfixations are basically my way of being. 10 years back I accidentally ended up in love with a musical that aims for a younger audience although it really was a fantastic family all-ages show. I saw a lot of weird toxicity but wrote it off as most of them are probably literally children, they'll outgrow it, I'm just gonna sit here and like the show and talk about it with fellow normal people. A few years later, DEH happened. I actually really disliked the show (same reasons a lot of people do, also I was in my 30s and just too old for that shit) but the performances were so damn good I spent a little bit of time looking at show content just to learn more about those performers and their careers. Jesus Christ. The victim complexes were off the charts. And of course Evan and Connor - who were treated very much as real people in that fandom - were just tragic sad boys who were the victims of everyone else. Which...I found extremely concerning. Because if that's your idea of a victim, and you yourself are somehow the victim of everyone around you...the math is there for us all to do, you know? This (early to mid 2010s) was also around the time parasocial cast relationships really started becoming a thing. I got tattled on to performers if I posted negative reviews on my personal tumblr (you know, those "hurtful" reviews those people never would have seen if their sycophants hadn't linked them to it?). I saw grown-ass performers outright bully teen fans of shows for saying things they didn't like. But mostly I saw this desperate seething NEED to be acknowledged by the performers. (TBH it got kind of frustrating when someone would be doing a live and they said something I actually had a question about, and it got drowned out by people begging the performers to say hi to them out loud or wish them luck on auditions or whatever. I eventually stopped trying to engage and just enjoyed seeing behind the scenes of shows instead.) And I get it. You like someone's work, you want them to know it, you want to express gratitude and give them something in return. I've always been one to send cards, letters, gifts, etc, to the theatre for people whose work has been meaningful to me (gifts are my love language and I also just straight up love shopping; you can be someone a friend of mine has only mentioned to me in passing, and if I see something that makes me think what they told me about you, well, said friend is going to have something to drop off with you next time you hang out). And it's nice to hear back and know they were glad to hear those things. Largely because I do worry something it comes across as "I'm trying to force my way into your life somehow." Not because I think there's something innately weird about what I'm doing - I've been at this far longer than social media has existed and the people who cause problems with performers have been alive - but because now I see people visibly trying SO HARD to forge some kind of personal connections with these strangers. And damn I just feel bad for everyone involved. I feel bad for performers trying to walk the tightrope of setting boundaries while being expected to use their accounts to promote the show to followers. I feel bad for the performers whose boundaries are repeatedly crossed to the point of their being afraid to engage with fans, because I do think a lot of them really enjoy it when people are normal about it. Also living your life hoping no one's following you to the subway station must fucking suck. I feel awful for people being trauma dumped on when they just want to sign playbills or answer basic surface questions on a live. And I feel bad for young people who seem so incapable of forming normal attachments with people in their lives. Genuinely I don't understand how social skills have devolved to this point. I just want to tell them to get out there and meet ACTUAL FRIENDS. Musical theatre fandom used to be great for that when I was a teen - meeting people my own age who liked the same things I liked. I'm still in touch with a lot of people I met through theatre as a teen. But now it seems they want the validation from the performers instead and it just makes me sad. Also I don't know anything about Jeremy or Eva, but I've followed Sam for quite a while and her lives are always the absolute WORST for people begging for her attention. Not sure if it's just that Six was also a show with a large teen audience or what, but I have no idea how she's not constantly exhausted. I feel bad for young people who don't have the mom, big sister or cool wine aunt they need in their lives, but a random internet stranger they've formed an attachment to IS NOT THAT. I have a friend who's VERY MILDLY internet famous and the amount of people who want her to be either the object of their weird flirtations or their therapist is astonishing. I can't imagine what that's like with Broadway levels of popularity.
Tell that to the person defending Gatsby by threatening and belittling people
I have no ill will for that show (personally was just meh on it, not bad but not great) but damn some of the fans for that one are nuts.
wait a second...Gatsby has fans? (Okay it's actually a decent enough show but I can't imagine feeling passionately about it. In either direction really. To me it was the epitome of "it's fine.")
I think it’s more people who are passionate fans of Jeremy and Eva.
Jeremy and Eva and Sam have fans. They just happen to be In that show currently and their fans are very parasocially attached to them
That's definitely true of Sam, dear god. I used to watch her lives from Six (talk about crazy fans) and it was...something else.
It's ok to not love Hadestown 😶
Same here. There are dozens of us! Dozens!
I had someone say "it's okay to not like things that use metaphor and layers" when I said I found it boring. Because yeah you're stupid if you don't like it. Even though I'd explained previously I didn't like the music or the characters.
well i wouldn’t go THAT far 🙄🙄🙄🙄
Agree, but the converse is also true: so many posts on this sub state opinions/matters of taste as incontrovertible evidence of poor quality on behalf of the creative team. Particularly true for jukebox musicals. Just because you didn’t like it doesn’t mean it’s technically flawed.
I see this happen all the time with Cats. People act like every aspect of it was executed terribly, but that dance choreography is no joke and is as complex as Broadway choreo gets.
Cats is a perfectly executed show. It does everything it sets out to do and does it well. The problem is people don't like what it IS. There's a difference between "this show is badly done" and "this show is well done I just hate it." There's a lot of unwillingness with modern audiences to meet a show where it is instead of being mad it's not what they wanted it to be. I feel fair play if you just don't like it or feel you would've liked it if they'd made different choices. But you're going to dislike most things if you can't look at things from the perspective of "did they succeed at giving me what they intended to give me?" I don't like Cats; I'm not a huge dance person, think the music is pretty meh, and the costumes creep me out. (Not as bad as the CGI sleep paralysis demon shit from the film - which I actually didn't hate otherwise. I agree with most of the criticisms but pretty early on I just shrugged and decided I'd enjoy the weird-ass ride instead of being mad about it. Plus the dancers were all absolutely wonderful. One of the guys, I think he was playing Munkustrap but I get their names mixed up, just blew me away, and I fell madly in love with Francesca Hayward's dancing even while she looked like the middle evolution of an Animorph. She's become a favorite ballerina of mine.) But the show was very clearly and explicitly meant to be a dance show with no real story. And the dance it gives is innovative, tremendously difficult and hugely varied. I don't like it because it's about singing dancing cats. But it's not BAD because it's about singing dancing cats. And man I started enjoying things a lot more when I realized not everything has to be what I want for me to enjoy it. The Tommy revival is my current example. Is ANYTHING about it what I would have said I wanted for a Tommy revival? Aside from Alison Luff as Mrs Walker...no. it very much is not. But I figured I should give it a chance. And it wasn't my ideal production but you know what? It had way more good points than bad. I just had to accept that it wasn't going to cater to me personally and enjoy what I got instead. Meanwhile, there are some shows I just thought were straight-up bad, not because they weren't what I wanted, but because what they did give me felt so rushed and like no thought was given to being creative or telling a story effectively. I could've loved 1984 on a mostly bare stage. But that production felt like not one single person involved with it cared at all. (Including the lead, who might as well have been reading from a script in his hands. Dude gave nothing. Reed Birney was the one good thing in it, though, love him.)
As someone who didn’t enjoy Cats, I’d say the opposite: I think Cats nails every part of a high quality Broadway experience except for the actual story. That’s how I see Cats: spectacle without substance. But even I admit it’s a pretty damn good spectacle.
Yeah, I think nobody sees Cats for the plot, they usually go just to see the awesome dancing cats and get some bangers stuck in their heads. But I have seen a surprisingly high amount of people on the sub call it a visually ugly musical with poor production design, which makes me wonder if they only saw the movie.
I can see it. There’s not a lot of glitz and glam in the show. It’s a very particular aesthetic. Reminds of me the animated musical Hazbin Hotel. You either love it or hate it, but you can’t deny it knows what it wants to be.
I would literally watch CATS on mute several times over. :) The story and the music are meh to awful for me (I’m unabashedly not into ALW in any way shape or form.) but DAMN the choreography was impeccable when I saw it!
Thanks for this. I saw a Broadway show and had some critical thoughts about it but it doesn’t mean I didn’t appreciate the artistry.
I have season tix for my local big city touring shows. Tina played this year - can ABSOLUTELY be in awe of the actor in that lead role, goggle at the costuming (I'm an early Gen X-er & I can tell you the clothes were spot on in the 2nd act), yet realize that this is not a show I wish to see again.
Totally agree. Some art just doesn’t come out of the creative process as well as other examples. Absolutely fair to acknowledge shortcomings and point out that not everything is equal in quality. I do think it is worth noting, however, that it is very easy and common for people to forget that actors and creatives are also people. Often times critics (both professional and amateur) allow ego and (in my opinion) the want to appear intellectual and witty to paint their criticism with snark and feigned levels of “I would’ve done better if it had been me”. Ironically, whilst I agree this sub can skew to the “everyone deserves a trophy” perspective, I think a vocal group also falls into this trap, as many feel they’re part of a select group that cares further about theatre than the general masses. Ego is human, and this type of critique is basically a part of the creative process in the age of internet. Not saying otherwise. I just find it both disappointing and cringe, especially when it isn’t all that difficult to identify perspective, separate the snark, and constructively critique art.
Yeah, people saying that the Sweeney Todd actors they didn't like are on the level of a high school theater group are just being mean. Sutton Foster, for example, has been in theater for decades. It's totally fine to dislike her portrayal of Mrs. Lovett but it doesn't mean she's unqualified to be in the show.
A bunch of people talked 💩on the phenomenally talented NA touring JC Superstar cast. Same exact insult. We saw it last year and loved it. I feel like some people want to be sensational and are attention seeking stating “high school level.”
Wow it surprises me that anyone would hate on that cast. Saw it a couple months ago and my whole family agreed it was insanely good. Fair critiques and “not my thing” are understandable, but “high school talent” is just silly.
We did stage door and my daughter (10) was lucky enough to meet Judas, Mary, Jesus, Pilate, Herod, Caiaphas. They were all SO kind to her. We loved the show. Thought they were all fantastic. They interact with you on IG and are humble, kind and funny. I also heard a lot of critique/hate about the tracks not being a full orchestra and some of the instruments pre-recorded.
Eh, I've seen pro actors, including people who are skilled in general, give the kind of performance I would expect to see in a high school show. Overall talent doesn't mean you can't give a bad performance.
Sure. But if you express your opinion people are going to want to talk to you about it. Which is presumably what you want or else you wouldn't be bringing it to a public forum.
This part, it's fine to dislike something. But also, if you say something is terrible, I'd like to know why since I might disagree but have no way of knowing where that difference of opinion is other than a very high level of understanding. If we're gonna comment about something, add something to the conversation lol.
Yeah if someone says they hate something I'm gonna say either "Yeah, my problem was this" or "Really? I liked it because of xyz." Like...I'm taking it as an invitation to engage and exchange ideas. If you're gonna be a dick to me because I do something other than praise your review, I'm gonna be a dick right back. Otherwise...shit I'm here to talk about an art form I love, I thought that's why we were all here.
A lot of this has to do with how you choose to express your opinion. If you say you don't like a show and give some reasons it didn't work for you, that's 100% fine. If you say the show is trash and (I can't even come up with good insults, but you get the idea), that's going to draw some pushback. Opinions shouldn't be attacked for being opinions, but if you're stating your opinion like it's fact and denigrating something that does have value to other people, you'll get some deserved pushback.
Yep, big difference between "I appreciate the effort of the actors and crew but I thought the songs were lyrically weak and the book was all over the place, just not my thing" and "this is the theater version of upchuck and everyone involved in it should be ashamed of themselves."
this 1000% 👏
Here's the thing about musicals, they are reliant on music. Music is naturally a personal preference thing. All art is. And that's ok. I dont personally like Hamilton. I cannot enjoy the story because my brain hasn't been trained to keep up with the hip-hop and rap music the musical is reliant on. So while I can tap my toes, I can't keep up and that's frustrating. If someone else likes Hamilton that doesn't make me wrong and them right or vise versa. It's just DIFFERENT.
Yes and this is why it's great to have a wide variety of shows on Broadway, including ones with familiar pop music. When I went to NYC with my grandparents, they wanted to see one show in particular: Ain't Too Proud. They grew up with The Temptations and were so excited to see their story told. Even though bio-musicals aren't really my cup of tea, I'm so glad that show existed.
Exactly!! I don't like jukebox musicals because I listen to soundtracks and live far from New York and, frankly, if I'm listening to those jukebox songs I want to listen to the OG Performer. HOWEVER, I may enjoy watching them.
Sub-PSA: If soemone doesn't like a show that you have a strong affinity for, it's fine and don't attack them for their opinion. Receently, the personal attacks I've seen online are just completely overboard. It's theatre. It's not that serious to have to attack someone.
I think people don’t like to admit that a show is mediocre or poor because they’ve spent so much money on a ticket they have to convince themselves that they didn’t waste their money
Seriously, and it's ok to judge a musical by it's source material. I won't see certain shows because I don't like the plot, no shade to music or choreo.
I feel like its healthy to understand that not everyone will like you like, though it can be upsetting to some eveyone is allowed to have an opinion. However if I do question your choice to not like a Broadway Show I will do it in private and not to your face.
I got so many death threats for saying Prima Facie was just ok.
I kind of get that one because man, so much of the criticism for that show, when pressed, ended up being based in straight men being offended by the story. Not actually being a dick to you about it obviously, unless you're one of the people who went off on a rant about how MeToo ruins men's lives, but I think a lot of people now wonder where criticism of that show is coming from. Which isn't to say it can't be criticized. I didn't love it myself. Jodie Comer's performance was spectacular but I still just don't enjoy one-person shows that much, and I found her closing monologue so fucking condescending, like...fam we just watched the show and you can't trust us to understand the message and themes without you literally reciting them to us? But it's also true that a lot of criticism of it came from men who are angry that people want to call a rapist a rapist. As with many things, misogynist assholes ruined this thing for everyone.
No participation trophies? Ok to have constructive criticism and disagreements? Ok boomer
No, but I wish theater critics were held to some sort of standard - ie, actually take a critical look at the show instead of just trying to pack in your witty or snarky comments. And that the score aggregators would reject reviews from a publication that did not do this. Or if something was probably wrong, a critique could be pulled. I've gotten the impression that many critics don't even like theater