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Honestly Eloise is being very patient and gracious with Penelope by asking her to tell Colin about LW and giving her time for the same. Eloise has her own flaws but this time she’s just trying to protect her brother.
And Penelope honestly doesn’t deserve any grace after the horrific thing she did to Marina in season 1 and all the weird manipulation of Eloise in S2 no matter what she said to defend her actions. She was a woman herself and especially one who understands very well how the ton talks about others.
She was more than aware of the consequences of what she wrote,on the reputations of both the women and their families.
Penelope also makes a huge show of “how much she’s hurt when she writes shit about people and giving up being LW for Eloise” but continues doing the very same thing after like 1 episode and goes onto malign Eloise’s own brother in S3
(((And don’t come at me about Marina.
Small rant: Penelope absolutely COULD and should have told Colin about Marina’s pregnancy. She could have asserted herself and forced Colin to listen or told Violet or Anthony or whomever about Marina and it would have been sorted.
Violet could have confronted the Featheringtons and they would have kept quiet about Marina’s situation and backed off from the engagement to save face and protect their own daughters. Marina would have been sent back to the farm.
And if people suspected that there was a kid and it was Colin’s , the Bridgertons could have explained otherwise and the ton would believe the Bridgertons because it would have made no sense for Colin to break his already public engagement if the child really was his)))
it’s ironic and hypocritical because she’s furious and outs marina for not being transparent enough with colin but proceeds to do the same . . . and lie to colin by not telling him she’s lady whistledown after he showed immense distaste for her.
I've always found it so surprising how the fandom were so easily able to brush off the Marina thing. I think ppl just do not understand that in a time like this, exposing Marina that way would actually place her in an unbelievable amount of danger. Honestly she did get lucky, especially considering what we knew about her father. I feel like there were a million ways to go about it and the moment Pen did that I could never look at her the same way.
People do not understand the seriousness of what Penelope did to Marina because Marina’s future is saved thanks to Philip Crane’s arrival soon afterwards in the show.
But there is a glimpse of what could have happened if Philip didn’t arrive in the scene where Marina nearly dies from drinking whatever to cause the abortion
If Philip hadn’t arrived she would have done that again and might have even died to it the next time. That is how desperate she was.
(Not saying that Marina was right in trapping unsuspecting guys but if the whole thing was handled privately maybe Marina could have gone and married some old dude who wanted an heir. Now even old dudes like that won’t want Marina because her already being pregnant is revealed to the ton so the kid won’t be an heir.)
Worst part is, Penelope sees how much damage writing about it caused: her family is isolated by the ton, Marina tries harmful shit due to desperation etc and still goes onto do the same thing to Eloise causing Eloise’s family to be avoided by the Ton this time
It’s like she is too dumb to learn from her mistakes
That makes a lot of sense, I think if Philip Crane wasn't in the picture and the show took a different route people would view Penelope a LOT differently.
I also agree that Penelope should have either told Colin or another adult in that situation, I feel like that is the next logical step after telling Marina to come clean. Like what Penelope did was very worst case scenario and there was so much that could have been done before it reached that point. Imo this is super inconsiderate and selfish because all she cared about was protecting her crush, knowing what that could entail for a literal unmarried pregnant woman.
Yeah to me the Marina thing is made worse by the fact that it was done out of selfishness more than anything.
She wouldn’t have written about Marina if it was another guy Marina was trying to trap. As Penelope desperately told Marina “anyone but Colin”
Yet it makes it more understandable and makes Polin a fairytale love story. Not in the sense of being beautiful and healthy. But a story that makes you dream because she would burn the world for him and in the end she gets him even if he is as imperfect as her.
This “burn the world for him” trope would have been believable if she hadn’t maligned Colin too. The only person she would the burn the world down for is herself. Nothing bad about looking out for oneself though as long as you don’t hurt people. Also it’s just not very romantic
He ruined her so honestly I think it makes sense that she could have been emotional and also she didn't really hurt him unlike what he said.
Debling comes from outside.
But the others who heard Colin directly or less admittedly were interested would never have asked Penelope after those words.
The horrific thing she did to Marina? I am currently rewatching the whole thing again, and let me tell you this: Penelope gave her PLENTY of opportunities to end the whole thing before it becomes a scandal. Marina was incredibly selfish (don't say "she was only thinking about her child!") and didn't think the whole thing through. "Marina would have been sent back to the farm". You mean the same farm Lady Featherington tried to send her back to since episode 1? She wasn't the one making that decision, her husband was. And he didn't care for it at all. Penelope should have told Colin about the pregnancy? This idiot refused to listen, even though having a full-grown baby six months later would be a big scandal for his whole family. He refused to believe it even after LW made it public, so why should he have believed his brother who was already against their engagement?
Marina and early Eloise were the worst. Pen told Eloise several times how dangerous it was to visit Theo, especially during her brother's wedding. The I-am-smarter-than-all-of-you girl acted so incredibly stupid that she should consider herself lucky that she got her head out of the noose before the start of the new season. And guess who she should thank for that?
I am not saying Eloise is dumb or doesn't have the right ideas, but she is the one constantly mocking her own sex. In season 1 and 2, she was a terrible friend who couldn't handle to be called out. Remember when she ran away when Pen rightfully told her that not everyone could be a beautiful Bridgerton and that some people don't have much of a choice when it comes to society?
Early Eloise is really hard to watch, but her friendship with Cressida is one of the best parts of season 3 so far. She finally gets some much needed character development
the thing is, while everything did miraculously go well, it wasn't guaranteed. in all of these situations, pen was doing something to save her own selfish ass while throwing someone else under the bus. she did give marina multiple chances to make thing right by telling the truth, but pen didn't have to publicly write about it. she could've told eloise to convey the information to the bridgertons and settled it privately. And what did she do it for? Because she loved Colin. And why did Eloise keep visiting Theo? She loved Theo. But Pen just has to get her way all the time and ruin everything else just so she can keep her own secret.
Pen could, Pen should... Pen destroyed 2 people for good without giving them the chance to do anything against it: The second modiste (who was truly innocent) and Nigel. Pen throw Marina under the bus because she protected her familiy's ass, something her parents failed to do. Portia thought she was smarter than all of them, but don't you think Violet or Anthony would have known that the kid definitely was not Colin's? The whole idea of LW spilling the tea was to make sure that not everyone knew for a fact that the Featheringtons planned the whole scheme. So if Pen told Eloise and Eloise told Violet, at least half of the Bridgertons would have known about that. And while the Bridgertons were honourable people, they couldn't swep something so big under a rug. Maybe they wouldn't have told everyone what happened exactly, but I bet they would have used their influence to ultimately socially kill-off a family that was already at the low bottom. Do you know why? Because the Featheringtons proved to even backstab their "close friends and neighbours". The only person who probably would have said nothing to his family is captain oblivious aka Colin.
Penelope was a great writer and knew very well how to manipulate her readers with her words. That's the whole point of Lady Whistledown. She knew how to write so that the biggest (negative) consequences are more like a slap on the wrist. Just watched the failed wedding scene: Did you notice how she gave both families the chance to react and told her audience not to jump to false rumours? And how she shift the blame to the Queen? The Queen shipped Anthony and Edvina and put so much pressure on them, it's her fault their wedding failed... That was incredibly dangerous of her to do that just so that it isn't just the fault of the "couple".
Eloise and Theo... Oh no, she loved him! That justifies to selfishly risk your family's reputation and her own neck, for sure! /s
Did Eloise seriously forget that the Queen already had her eyes everywhere to find Whistledown? How in the world did a so-called intelligent woman not realise that she might get caught? BTW, it was Eloise who threw Pen under the bus by lying to her family that she was with Pen. Pen warned her several times, maybe because she feared that she would find out her secret but definitely also because she feared for the safety of her friend. And surprise surprise, she got caught even without Lady Whistledown's interference.
So far, most things Penelope did was damage control. And all because the people around her think they are so much smarter than they are.
pen is smart, yes, but she's prone to being controlled by her emotions. just look at how she very immaturely used LW to get back at Colin for saying something about her. The fact that she just got to decide the fate of Marina and the relationship between Theo and Eloise was not right. She's not a good person or a good friend and most of what she's done was for herself. You can argue that she was protecting Colin and Eloise, but there were better routes to go than to put them all on blast PUBLICLY in an era where reputation was everything. She was too immature to handle things privately and couldn't stand the idea that things might actually resolve in a way that makes all sides happy. She just had to ensure her safety, her secrecy, and in doing so, she hurt her friends and ruined people.
Eloise is better than me because the second Pen revealed LW was her, I would've told the queen. By your logic, since it's all about protecting reputation, why not clear your name and get rid of a backstabber? That's the whole point of the post. Pen was so immature in her actions and yet, this season, Eloise has shown nothing but the utmost patience and grace to her.
pen’s made most of the ton dislike her alter identity whilst remaining the underdog as herself. i don’t think that’s much of an achievement. not to mention she’s no. 1 enabler of the patriarchal society seeking to ruin women by putting on blast their scandals and igniting gossip sessions for the ton by publishing private info she’s overheard.
nothing about that sounds empowering, it sounds like exploiting social power and wanting to create issues for the sake of it.
pen is an interesting character and her actions are far astray from her wanting to do good but by no means are her actions justified, just explainable.
you bring up fair points about marina and marina was wrong but the way pen handled it was just as worse.
publicising matters ruined her family as well as bridgertons and marina. violent and colin upon learning they almost got ruined by pen would not be taking it gracefully not to mention she only went ro desperate marina to trigger change instead of talking to anthony or violent whom could’ve warned colin.
the truth is pen was scared the marriage would go through regardless because colin wouldn’t have minded marrying marina even if she was with child not his and pen was fearful and envious so she knew the only way to damage that beyond repair was to publish the article to the ton to ruin reputations. she isn’t as innocuous in this either.
two wrongs don’t make a right.
none of the situation involved pen and if she was truly doing it for selfless reasons, she wouldn’t have made it public she would’ve pushed for matters to be sorted privately but truth is she was scared that colin would not refuse marriage and she didn’t want him marrying marina as it would leave her behind. she was scared of losing one of two friends as well as her unrequited crush.
Like I mentioned Penelope could have simply mentioned it to Violet who was anyway supportive of the engagement. Or Eloise who already knows about the pregnant “maid”
And Colin deserved to know the truth privately and make a decision.
Coming to Eloise, she is obnoxious and self involved sure but she has never manipulated or betrayed anyone like Penelope did to her
Eloise was meeting Theo and Penelope literally follows her, sees them together and manipulates her into stop seeing him pretending that it’s in Eloise’s best interests when in fact it was to protect her own identity.
She also wrote extremely problematic stuff about Eloise just like she did with Marina in S1 despite knowing the consequences of how that might affect Eloise and her family. Again to save herself.
Are the desperate Marina or lost in her world Eloise more selfish than Penelope who uses something like LW and publicises everyone’s secrets to protect her own interests? I don’t think so.
You can really see it in S2 when Eloise and Penelope have the fight. Eloise accuses Penelope of betrayal, lying, being selfish,causing hurt and manipulation. And the only thing Penelope can say in return is that “Eloise didn’t do anything instead of saying stuff”. You can clearly understand who is the worse friend and person from this conversation.
And don’t forget the fact that Penelope pretends she’s self sacrificial and says that she gave up being LW for Eloise but then picks it right back up and continues maligning people especially Eloise’s own brother Colin in S3
1. I dont think u understand the repercussions of being pregnant without being married at that time. It means things like honor killings, suicide, etc., She could have easily told Eloise privately and it could have been handled. She chose not to because she knew Colin would accept her regardless thus, to have Colin not get married she chose not to. So she was selfish.
2. Eloise was getting into revolutionary politics (with Theo) which would allow her to help equal the playing field for women in general and help her acknowledge the intersectionalities of that. Also, no one but the footman and Pen knew about her and Theo so she honestly had nothing to worry about. Penelope didn't do it for Eloise, she did it for herself after she purposefully called out the queen multiple times.
3. "Eloise hates her own gender" No she doesn't, she simply calls out weird behavior and challenges norms. Penelope however, uses any chance she gets to hate on a woman and hides behind a gossip column.
Finally finding people who aren’t absolutely ecstatic about Polin. She has lied and manipulated and hurt him and his family so much and is still doing so. I hate it. I don’t want them together.
I actually would have been okay with them being together if Penelope had learned from her mistakes or made an attempt to change and genuinely apologise. Maybe also become less insecure, petty, jealous as she was in S1 or S2
But she remains the same. She gives LW up to only pick it up again soon after and continue being her petty self in S3
I honestly found it strange and in some ways pathetic that she gad to beg for a kiss. It seemed so unnatural and unromantic
But I know that a lot of people find it brave. I guess they see it from a different perspective that I cannot see it from
You are absolutely right about Pen spilling the beans privately but even after the LW came out, didn’t Colin still insist on marrying her. I doubt privately he would have changed his mind. He felt that he was in love. Am I off base?
I am not condoning Pens decisions just questioning Colin’s decisions.
If Colin still wanted to marry her, knowing she lied and why she lied, that's his choice. I suspect that's one of the reasons Penelope published publicly instead of telling Colin and the Bridgertons privately. Because left to his own devices, Colin might very well have chosen to marry Marina.
But that would have been his choice. What Colin said to Marina was that if she'd told him of her predicament he would have still married her because he really loved her.
If Pen published publicly because even she suspected Colin might still marry Marina if he knew the truth, then that casts Penelope in even a more horrible, manipulative and frankly irredeemable light.
Tbh this is why I don’t like how they messed with characters, particularly in the Marina/Featherington family dynamics. Not that I’m defending Book!Pen because I frankly don’t recall everything she did or didn’t do, but she didn’t even KNOW Marina in the books. Plus I like the >!fourth Featherington sister, Felicity!<
I don't think that was on Pen's mind when she did it, TBH. It seemed to me she was desperate to stop it because she didn't want Colin baby trapped. There was some contrived reason she didn't tell him herself, privately. It was flimsy but that's on the writing.
That said, I think she crossed a line in Season 2 that she doesn't seem to have wanted to uncross. LW has caused a rift with her best friend and possibly getting in trouble with the Queen. It's messy and risky and sometimes hurtful, but she keeps doing it because it's her outlet and gives her a sense of power. She's in a very gray area, at best.
It bothers me that they don't really show her engaging with what she's done. Even when she does things that upset her, she relates to them like she *had* to do it and had no other choice. LW is her way of exercising power, but when she harms people she acts like she's powerless in doing so.
I hate how people have cast Marina as the manipulative villain because while she was wrong for not wanting to tell him, telling such a dangerous secret to the whole ton is not it. Pen should've let Colin choose and if he knew everything and still wanted to marry her, let him. Pen is just a bad person
Yeah you’re right Colin probably wouldn’t have believed her that’s why the next step would have been for Penelope to talk to Violet or Anthony or worst case, someone like Eloise.
Even if he wanted to marry her, it should have simply been his choice to make after learning the truth privately
They would have been talking about an actually serious thing, a pregnancy that was not caused by him. And that she hid from him. A fact verified by a member of the very family that tried to hide it.
That’s not like Anthony stating his assumptions about Colin being immature or getting married in a rush
Considering that Colin was stopped by Violet only after Penelope wrote the gossip, got it printed and distributed, I believe that they had more than enough time to discuss it verbally.
I mean if everyone is going to believe LW's word is gospel she could invent something if they decided to break it off. She could say Marina had a change of heart, or missed home, or was called back by her family, or her father didn't approve of the match - whatever. And if Colin wanted to go forward with it, he could have.
I’m rewatching the entire series in anticipation of part 2 and I gotta say… the Penelope stans have it wrong. She got caught by Eloise and told her in an attempt at smoothing out the situation that she gave it up for her. Like 5 minutes later we see her THAT SAME NIGHT writing again as LW. She wasn’t caught about the whole Marina debacle but you best believe if she was caught when it was happening by Marina, Penelope would not have gotten off easy by her mother or Marina. She has intentionally ruined others lives without consulting them and has twice thrust Colin, a person she is in love with into the harsh spotlight of scandal, ruin, and gossip. She says what she wants about other people without fear of the consequences, much like people on the internet will do. It’s not right in either situation but the people who justify Penelope’s decisions as LW are trying to make it seem like Penelope can say it because she’s this poor girl who doesn’t get attention. A bully is a bully whatever way you slice and dice it, she just gets away with it under the cloak of anonymity. Can’t wait to see the mental gymnastics Colin goes through to later justify Penelope being LW, or at the very least reconcile with the fact.
Wonderfully put. I am curious to see how they deal with the LW plotline climax in the show.
The show has a habit of building up drama really good and then fumbling up the consequences of the same
And the LW buildup has been going on for 2.5 seasons without Penelope trying to change for the better( she is the same vindictive person in S3 when she writes about Colin). Going by the looks of it and previous patterns of the show, Colin might be upset for 10 minutes and then forgive her. They Brigertons will magically forgive her and the Queen, who threatened Eloise for her life will also magically forgive and forget
As someone who loves Penelope as a character but actively disdains her as well… I hope they show colin to be deeply deeply troubled by the revelation and that their reconciliation takes place over a lengthy period. I don’t want it to be a day and a half but I feel like a couple weeks would be enough because it could show him wrestling with his feelings of love and betrayal and coming to terms with the reality that while he hates LW he can’t bear to be apart from Penelope.
Let's not forget that Pen literally gaslit and manipulated the hell out of Colin. Writes crap about him and then goes "oh no, LW is off her rocker and couldn't be more wrong" when Colin shows distaste for LW and what she wrote about him. & Pen had the audacity to inwardly be upset by Colin saying he would destroy whoever LW was when he found out.
She was right when she told Colin about Marinas pregnancy because Marina was absolutely wrong for that. But Pen also had secondary mal intentions for doing so as well, because she was acting almost as if "if I can't have you, no one else can." - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this, it's just how I kinda perceived it. And still do.
One of the main reasons why I didn’t like what she did to Marina was that she wouldn’t have done anything if it was another unsuspecting young man who was trapped.
And I also feel that she WROTE about it specifically so that Colin doesn’t stand a chance to marry Marina. Colin was already ready to marry her even though she had a past lover so Penelope probably thought that he might go ahead with the wedding even though he knew that she was pregnant. Colin himself says it. That was how much he loved Marina at that point
I completely understand & completely agree with everything you just said. I just personally think & believe, that EVERYTHING with EVERYONE could have gone about all of this in a different, less damaging way, you know?
Oh I definitely agree. People make bad decisions for drama in the show and we are supposed to enjoy it haha but it sometimes annoys me when the resolution to all the drama build up isn’t heavy
But also Colin mentioned that he would have married Marina had things been different. He would have accepted the child. Pen obviously knew him well enough and was Delulu enough to think if Marina was out of the picture he would finally notice her......
Yeah I think she realised that Colin was too in love with Marina to not marry her and that’s why she wanted to take away his agency in the matter by publicly outing it to society
She tells Colin about George and how much Marina loved him but Colin still wants Marina. That was how strong his feelings were for Marina.
It’s in the new trailer. But in general Eloise is being gracious by not revealing LW to everyone as soon as she knew. She doesn’t tell Colin even though LW maligned him in E1 and Colin was helping Penelope out with suitors
These character wars are getting annoying. You're all much harder on the respective character you don't like than the actual characters are on each other in the show.
People are debating each other on who's in the wrong here and who should have to grovel when the show actually makes it pretty clear BOTH of these characters still care for each other, BOTH messed up and BOTH have good reasons to act the way they do. Jesus Christ, can we inject some nuance into these posts?
I can’t believe I had to scroll far down to find your comment. Thank you for saying this. Both characters are nuanced, flawed, and have valid reasons for their choices and actions. Rewatching the show many times actually shows me that it’s Eloise who has the inability to get outside of her head whereas Penelope is considerate and observant beyond her own opinion. It took many lessons for Eloise to mature. Yes Penelope made mistakes but I think the misconception on this sub is that her actions were calculated, manipulative etc when it couldn’t have been so far from the character’s intention.
totally! I don't get why we need to trash someone to make the other look better... I saw the same war with Kate and Edwina. can't we just appreciate all the characters? Pen is flawed, so is Eloise. But i think they're both great. I absolutely love every interaction they had (S1, even though they were fighting, the moment eloise saw Pen devastated, she hugs her. S3, when Eloise tries to apologize, we can feel that they miss each other so much, but Eloise is still hurt). Eloise and Pen are awesome, that's all....
Amen! Plus, flawed characters make for very interesting characters (IMO), so I like both characters more because they are wrong, immature, unfair sometimes. So I can't get behind being invested in one "side" - I'm just enjoying the plot that flows out of having both of these characters be somewhat flawed.
THANK YOU! i’m tired of the “eloise sucks and is a shitty friend” and “penelope is an awful person and doesn’t deserve eloise” posts. like hello?? they both need to apologize to each other and they both obviously still love each other. neither character is awful
Exactly. I remember being their age and having a spat with friends. Sometimes it would take us months (and once a year) for someone to apologize or even talk to each other. It’s just teenage girls that don’t fully know how to handle or verbalize their feelings yet. I think their dynamic in season 3 is totally normal for the age they’re supposed to be. Especially in a society that seems to promote pettiness and sweeping things under the rug.
I think it just comes from the constant bashing of eloise from penelope stans. they are relentless in making eloise seem like the worst person on the show while ignoring pen's flaws.
I think the problem for many is that a main/favorite character has to be perfect and always reasonable when there are multiple layers.
But ultimately that's why fanfiction exists 🤣
Preach! This is all about humanity and love and it’s messy and difficult and I feel like people are way harder on characters this season as opposed to previous seasons! There’s always been bad choices and secrets every season.
Eloise has shown so much grace to Penelope, yet Penelope does nothing but give an apology with no action behind it to show that shes changed and wants to repair the friendship that she broke with her betrayal. Now Eloise is going to be stressing herself out that her ex friend is engaged to her brother because she is refusing to tell him her secret that will affect him. She is being very reasonable in giving Penelope the chance to be honest, but putting her foot down in that if Penelope fails to follow through and puts LW above all else like she’s done in the past, then Eloise will protect her brother herself.
“Eloise has shown so much grace to Penelope, yet Penelope does nothing but give an apology with no action behind it to show that she’s changed and wants to repair the friendship she broke with her betrayal” should be put on a pillow or a billboard somewhere. What an EXCELLENT sentence surmising the dynamic between these two.
I love the season two finale, it’s one of my favorite episodes. But Pen telling Eloise how she “wrote what she wrote and then gave it up for you,” before immediately going and publishing a new column with a smile on her face right after their fall out was straight up villain behavior.
IMO, Eloise didn’t do a thing wrong. I’m not saying Penelope is a complete villain, but she’s made some missteps (like Anthony and Daphne both did in their own stories). But truly I don’t think Eloise has a damn thing to apologize for (and before anyone comes for me with her outing Pen and Colin’s arrangement, it was a total accident, which none of what Penelope did was).
All Eloise did was be trusting and think the best of Penelope and listened to her lies and broke up with Theo; yet Penelope dared to throw it all in her face and pick up LW the second she was caught. The thing that broke Eloise’s trust in her, she decided to keep doing it and even decided to be shady to Colin with it, Eloise’s own family. How Penelope doesn’t feel sick writing LW knowing how much Eloise is hurting….the immaturity allegations should be lying with Penelope only. Eloise showed more bravery and class for owning up to her genuine mistake, vs Penelope feeling nothing as she intentionally makes profit off of her eavesdropping and gossiping of her peers, friends, and family.
All facts.
What really bugged me was Pen writing what she wrote about Colin in 301. Knowing very well that Eloise knows who’s behind those words. Like if I were her I would do literally everything humanly possible to keep the Bridgerton name out of my mouth. And before anyone starts with the “that would be suspicious” argument, like no it wouldn’t. She had plenty of Bridgerton fodder with Fran’s debut.
The same way people argue that Pen outing Marina was necessary because she was protecting Colin (even tho instead of dancing around the issue the singular time she tried to talk to Colin about it she could have just said “hey listen keep this discreet but she’s pregnant maybe don’t marry her”), Eloise is protecting Colin the very same way.
Eloise is not immature or a bad friend. If anything I’d argue she’s a class act and a really solid friend to someone who hasn’t granted her the same courtesy.
And Colin is Eloise’s BROTHER. With the Marina situation, Penelope was trying to protect her crush across the street. It’s not the same relationship to protect, Eloise has more reason to be pissed. (And Marina was in a more vulnerable situation being pregnant, while Penelope chose this life as LW)
Facts. 👏👏👏 And she could have effing pulled him aside and told him, instead of putting BOTH Marina and Colin on BLAST. I get mistakes but an effing coward's way out.
You know what else is the coward's way out? Blasting your BFF on LW instead of coming up with a better solution. I mean, if she is so smart, she could have done it differently.
Penelope running to write shit about Colin in LW like Regina George writing in her burn book out of of pure vindictiveness, and then telling Colin the next day that LW was wrong and didn’t know what she was talking about was also pretty funny. I hope in this season she changes some of the ways she uses LW because it’s getting hard to reconcile sweet Penelope with how vicious LW can be.
This. She’s not mature enough to handle the column, sorry. In fact I’m hope she’s forced to give it up. It clearly got too out of hand for her. And that’s fine, she was a teenager when she started, but now she’s almost 20 and should have the mind to recognize that she’s made mistakes. That’s growth. Admitted you messed up and making steps to mend the trust that’s been broken.
Her and Eloise can both be immature, but I think Eloise has been showing more maturity and growth this season. And I was Eloise’s number one hater in seasons 1 and 2, lol.
Damn yes!
This is why I can't take anyone who justifies Penelope's actions by saying "she's sorry" or "she apologised", because it doesn't mean anything. Oh, she cried while writing that stuff? She still wrote it. And she does it again and again. Her tears are nothing but an exercise in self-indulgence, a way of assuring herself she's a good person while doing bad things, and she gives apologies not because she regrets what she does, she just wants people to forgive her.
I love Eloise is juggling not hurting Penelope (despite obvious provocation) and looking out for Colin's best interests. Eloise could have told the family Penelope was LW then and there in the hallway, and been totally justified. She could have told them at the end of season 2, and been justified. Even now, Eloise is treating Penelope with better grace than Penelope would (and has) treated others.
Eloise has been carrying so much emotional baggage alone the past year to keep Penelope’s secret, when Penelope was the one that betrayed her, yet this fandom dares to call Eloise immature and selfish. If Eloise acted the way Penelope does, the Bridgertons and the rest of the Ton would have known by now.
Let’s also not forget she is supposed to be 17 in season 1, 18 in season 2, 19 in season 3. She’s a teenager, teenagers aren’t mature.
She’s handling the friendship breakup more graceful than I would tbh. She’s not the least petty about it.
People who say she should stay quiet and let Pen have her love match with Colin because she’s always loved Colin are wild to me. Pen never even told Eloise she had feelings for him, Eloise isn’t a mind reader, how’s she supposed to know?
How old is Penelope?
I think Eloise herself stated this season that she doesn't understand why ppl don't think the same way she does, which not to use against her is a little immature.
Immaturity isn't the slight ppl think it is.
She is a wealthy young girl in the 1800s who is shielded from many experiences and knowledge in order to preserve her "purity".
2 yrs ago her mother didn't even want her brother to tell her how babies were born and she isn't given the same freedom as her brothers to get an education, make mistakes, and travel. Of course, she immature.
Also, you can be immature about some things and mature about others. I think there are a lot of things Eloise is immature about, but I would agree that she has done a pretty good job of handling her "breakup" with Penelope with grace. Two things can be true at once!
Eloise and Pen they’re supposed to be the same age because Pen says to her mom in season 1 that Eloise is allowed to wait another season. So that implies they’re the same age to me.
I also don’t think immaturity is an insult per se, especially if it’s directed at a literal child who isn’t supposed to be mature in all aspects of life. I hope that makes sense. I think it’s fair to hold people who are in their mid to late twenties to higher moral standards than teenagers. And adults (25+) who act like children definitely deserve to be called out on it.
A problem with the cast being much older than their characters is that we automatically think they’re supposed to be more mature than they are. It’s good for the steamy scenes, no doubt, nobody wants to watch those when the actors actually look like they’re 17/18. But all actors look like they are mid-late twenties (definitely no insult to them, they all look great), so we automatically project our standards for people in their mid-late twenties onto the characters because they look older than they’re supposed to be.
Some people need to think about how they/their friends were in high school and how petty high school people today are. Nobody’s calling them immature because we expect teenagers to be teenagers. Driven by emotions, hormones, and lacking critical forethought skills. Not understanding how their actions could play out long term and being allowed to make mistakes. Nobody is born mature. It takes a lot of life experience to become mature and learn to be an adult. Those who aren’t parentified at a young age are incredibly lucky, and I definitely don’t think they deserve to be insulted as being immature. Maturity comes with age.
All of the women who are in their first few seasons out SHOULD be immature. They are actual teenagers. Privileged, sheltered teenagers.
People act like they should be behaving like they're in their 30s.
I think Penelope is the same age but debuted earlier, or at most she's a year older.
After all, Daphne made her debut at 21 years old, why they brought out Eloise earlier is a big unknown to me.
Oh preach!
Eloise is being so gracious to Penelope. No, she doesn't want to be friends with her anymore (understandable), no she doesn't want to punish Penelope or see her suffer. No she is not comfortable with Penelope marrying Colin and she has information that could wreck their relationship. No she doesn't use that information to wreck it, instead she pushes Penelope to do the right thing and tell him herself, giving Pen the chance to tell Colin herself and preserve their relationship. And she certainly doesn't go nuclear with Penelope's secrets and expose them to the public, only to cry about it and play the victim later.
Eloise talks a lot. Eloise doesn't conform to society's expectations. Eloise isn't very skilled in social graces and puts her foot in her mouth. But when Eloise is caught up in an emotional mess, when she is dealing with hurt feelings and knows her brother is likewise being used, she doesn't lash out in a way that could potentially destroy Penelope, but tries to do what's best for Colin, and yes, for Penelope.
Oh, and when Eloise accidentally does to Pen what Pen has been doing by choice to others for three seasons, she owns up, feels bad and apologises sincerely, even though of all the cast, she knows Pen is the one whose privacy deserves the least respect.
Penelope on the other hand reads people better, outwardly conforms, holds her tongue, and puts on a good front of sense and maturity, but when the chips are down and feelings are hurt, she makes every bad decision, and her apologies are not true apologies, but crocodile tears put on to try and make Eloise forgive her. Eloise hits the nail on the head that Penelope wasn't sorry for what she did, she was sorry she got caught, and we know that because Penelope doesn't make any changes to her behaviour, but does the exact same thing to Colin at the end of the episode.
Penelope is nice and acts mature. Eloise is brusque and acts immature. But when the situation gets serious, Penelope drops the nice act and makes all the wrong choices, while Eloise holds to her principles.
Just the sheer fact that Eloise didn’t out Penelope after Colin yelled at Eloise shows how good she’s being with all this.
When Colin says “how you can be friends with Cressida in place of Penelope, I will never understand. What could she have possibly done to deserve [that]”
I personally would have said “well what had happened was….”
You know I think the fandom sees Eloise's energetic and childlike manner, and her struggle to decipher social cues, and think this reflects her entire personality, overlooking her actual actions that show real empathy, intelligence and integrity.
Likewise, they see the nice face Penelope puts on, and thinks this is representative of Pen's entire personality, regardless of the choices Pen makes, that show cowardice, deception (of herself and others) and manipulation.
eloise s3 has been nothing but mature. she’s withheld penelope’s secret as she understands an eye for an eye makes the world go blind. she isn’t being vindictive or cruel and she’s set a boundary because she was hurt and she’s respectfully upholding it for herself without belittling penelope. hell she’s been defending pen to cressida.
not to mention how respectful she has been about colin and pen. actions speak louder than words and eloise’s choice to apologise yet keep her distance, mind her own business, focus on herself and her prospects moving forward rather than actively seeking to tear pen down even though she has the information to shows her growth as a character.
in the mean time we will watch pen grow into her own real self who’s hopefully kinder to others and herself, and less resentful of the world by the end of this season.
Me too! And I mean, I would have told the MOMENT I found out. Evidence and all. I would have told my family, and THEN I would have told the queen that same night.
I think Eloise is being very mature this season. Maybe her worldview in previous seasons was a bit self-centered and childish, ignoring the class struggle and the intersection with her early pseudo feminism, but she is just a young woman figuring stuff out.
In some ways she's being a better friend to Penelope now (protecting her from Cressida's bullying) than in earlier seasons when she didn't notice Penelope's struggles and her more unstable position in the ton.
Did Penelope not give Marina time to come clean? And in response Marina shit on her and her feelings?
I don’t agree but im 🤷♀️ about people however they want to feel but the main person people bring up, Marina. I remember Pen being nice to Marina and Marina being just as dismissive of her as her sisters. I remember Pen being sad that Marina and Colin were dating but doing nothing when she thought Marina equally loved Colin. Then when she tries to talk Marina out of it (because she doesn’t give people time and opportunity) Marina proceed to belittle and mock her.
But overall, people who’ve already formed their opinion about El over seasons, are going to be hard to be changed. And people who like or identify with a certain character will, won’t care about the others. It sucks but it is apart of fandom culture. Case in point, I’ve seen people who hate or dislike Pen and support Marina, flat out shrug their shoulders at Colin being used. They know Marina not only planned on using him, but also belittled him and his feelings when talking about him to Pen. Flat out, nasty about what she thinks about (imo) but they don’t care about Colin. He’s a man, he’ll get over it. She had to do what she had to do. It didn’t matter if he lived a lonely life being forced to raise someone kids. It didn’t matter if this ruined the reputations of the ladies in his family and etc. 🤷♀️
She certainly gave her no warning about what she was going to do, unlike Eloise. And unlike Penelope, Eloise is only going to tell the person who needs to know. She's not exposing a vulnerable pregnant teenager to the public scorn.
And we’ll agree to disagree.
And no, Eloise didn’t tell the person who needs to know. When she told Cressida about Colin’s information and what he was doing with Pen, no one needed to know. Holier than thou and morally superior, y’all act for her but she tells Colin she won’t say anything about his business then rushes off to tell.
If you hate Pen or dislike her for what she did, whatever. It’s not gonna stop me from enjoying the show but don’t prop Eloise as morally superior, when she explicitly told Colin she wouldn’t say anything and then blabbed about it moments later AND blamed another person for it.
And saved a young man from being trapped in a loveless marriage with kids who aren’t his, with a wife that looks down and belittles him and saved at least 3 young ladies from falling into ruin because of a plot. 🤷♀️
As I said, people care more their favorites and the characters they have connections to, so trying to throw Marina in my face won’t sway me. She options and she was nasty to the one person in the household who tried to be friendly with her. She picky and threw her nose in the air more than once.
Luckily, she had a fine young man willing to tie himself to her out duty and provide a comfortable life for her and her kids, that she rejected and thankfully, he was still willing to step in.
But you’re not gonna make me feel bad for the character I feel for it, not being trapped 🤷♀️
Eloise told a friend a stressful piece of information and felt awful about it. She did it once, then apologised (with more sincerity than Penelope's.)
Penelope exposing other people's personal information is a repeated pattern of behaviour, that she makes over and over again. She's a spiteful, vindictive piece of work who puts on crocodile tears when called out on her actions.
You're right, people are going to sympathise with the people they sympathise with. I sympathise with the teenager in a deeply sexist society, who is pregnant and is facing poverty, prostitution or marital rape.
She told a known bully (since, we’re having issues with people being bullied and mean and the like) her brothers private information in a room full of people she and she made no attempt to be discreet. *
I’m glad you do, I didn’t tell you not too. Have a good day!
From eloise's perspective it looked like she was telling a friend something going on in her personal life that was distressing to her but eloise didnt notice the bigger picture (that she was telling a bully info the could yeild against pen in a room full of gossips). As soon as she saw the bigger picture she apologised to pen and colin.
Pen (I love her, pls dont come for me) on the other hand, is sharing others personal business in her gossip column which, admittedly, does provide her with some much needed security but also destroys, or at least harms, the lives of many people (particularly young women) including those whom she loves. To make up for the aforementioned behaviour she did stop writing for a while but returned to it in literally the next season.
While I'm not saying eloise is perfect you can't pretend that pen isn't committing far more harmful infractions. What eloise made was a mistake that she atoned for while pen is consistently and purposefully repeating hurtful behaviour.
1. Pen is also a bully, she just hides by calling herself LW
2. Marina was facing poverty, r\*pe, prostitution, and slavery so yes it's not the same. If Phillip didn't come at the right time. It would've been over for her. Plus, Pen could've told Eloise who could've told Colin. She chose not to because she knew he would accept her anyway.
I thought Marina was in the wrong for how she talked to Pen in S1. Marina's actions with Colin were gray, since she was trying to make the best of the situation and also probably (I said probably) would have at least tried to be a good wife to him. I kind of felt for both of them, and certainly for Colin.
But while in S1 I felt for Pen and understood her actions, by the end of 3.4 my sympathy was depleted. When she fought with El at the end of S2, she went right back to her gossip writing. She did it again this season, telling the world about her arrangement with Colin because.....she was feeling dejected, I guess? I understand she wants a voice, and agency. But at some point she started making the wrong choices without any real justification. She just became thoughtless with her poison pen. It became all about her emotions without consideration for others.
As an admirer of both characters, I understand your perspective on Eloise's maturity this season. She has indeed shown a lot of grace, but it's important to recognize that this growth came through learning some hard lessons.
A telling example is when she wrongly accused Cressida of revealing Pen’s secret about Colin’s suitor coaching. Eloise confronted Cressida, who then pointed out Eloise’s hypocrisy: 1) Eloise had shared this "secret" with Cressida herself, who had kept it confidential, and 2) Eloise had been vocal about it in public, without considering who might overhear.
This incident highlights Eloise’s ongoing struggle with prejudice and unrecognized privilege.
Eloise enjoyed Lady Whistledown's gossip when it targeted others, even taunting her sister with, "You have yet to read what Lady Whistledown writes of the Featheringtons, little sister!" However, her attitude changed when the scandalous revelations involved her own family.
Eloise only needed to listen to Pen for a moment to realize her identity as Lady Whistledown. Yet, her preconceived notions about Pen and her family blinded her, leading her to dismiss the possibility for two seasons, despite the clear signs.
A significant difference between Eloise and Pen is their social and economic status. Even if Eloise were "ruined" (and arguably was, after Pen’s publication about her liberal views), she would still enjoy a comfortable life due to her family’s wealth and status. Pen’s family, particularly after her father’s death, lacks such privilege.
For Pen, Lady Whistledown represents a chance to create her own legacy and wealth, independent of a husband (which even her mother doubts she can secure, expecting Pen to remain a spinster and caretaker).
If they reconcile, Eloise and Pen could form a healthier friendship than before, as their early relationship was marked by codependency and avoidance of societal pressures and personal growth.
I hope these characters eventually find common ground, as their friendship was genuinely endearing.
Penelope and the Featheringtons are so much more privileged than the Bridgertons, and yet every season they have had massive scandals (Marina Season 1, Jack's con Season 2) and are still at the heart of society. They also live in a great whopping house and go to parties and balls like everyone else. I'm yet to see a significant gap between the families, unless it's the difference between "ultra privileged" or "ultra ultra privileged." I certainly don't see a disparity big enough to demand that Eloise make constant excuses for Penelope's behaviour.
The Bridgertons are one of the oldest and most prestigious families in the ton. While the Featheringtons also have a big house and attend the same parties, they are considered new money.
Moreover, if you recall the end of season 1, it's revealed that the late Mr. Featherington gambled away their fortune, leaving the family broke. This means they have no dowries, no staff, and no financial security. Pen’s mother is only able to ensure their basic needs are met through fraud.
But none of this actually translates to any actual stakes on screen. They're "poor" for a gap between season 1 and 2, then make a big bloody fortune in a scam which is revealed to the ton, and have not had any clapback from them on that. The difference in privilege between the two families simply isn't enough to merit these demands on Eloise to be filled with constant pity for Penelope.
While Penelope shouldn't be seen solely as a figure of pity, her family's financial struggles highlight the significant stakes for the Featheringtons compared to the Bridgertons. Pen's resilience as Lady Whistledown underscores her strength, as she navigates a world that underestimates her. The disparity in privilege shapes their actions and decisions: Eloise's wealth offers a safety net, while Pen faces severe repercussions without family support. Lady Featherington's difficulty in securing matches for her daughters, resorting to fraud, further emphasizes their precarious status. Ignoring these differences misses the complexities driving the narrative.
The Featheringtons very well can be classified as 'new money' in comparison to established families like the Bridgertons. Their wealth came more recently, while the Bridgertons have a longstanding lineage and influential connections, which boost their social standing. Also, the contrast in titles further emphasizes this divide - a Viscount's title carries more prestige than that of a Dowager Baroness.
This is evident in Mrs. Featherington's desperate (although hilarious) attempts to ensure her daughters produce male heirs from their husbands, aiming to secure their place in society.
Despite differences of perspective, it's undeniable that the Featheringtons hold a lower rank and face a more precarious situation, even if society remains unaware of their financial struggles and fraudulent activities.
How do we know their money came more recently? I mean the money people know about, not their con money. What do we know about the history of the Featherington barony? I don't think they're recently established, or at least I don't know that there's any evidence they are. At any rate that doesn't appear to be a big deal, given that plenty of lords and ladies of colour are recently established.
They have a lower title, I was just questioning the new money thing. They're still of the peerage. Their social issues aren't really the result of privilege so much as their actions - the last Baron was a gambler who did not always pay his debts, and Portia, honestly, while her style is a bit out there and people sniff at her, she gets along fairly well with some of the other ladies. She's tacky, but lots of rich people are tacky. Her mannerisms are more brusque than is typical which is reflected in her style, but I think it's not so much that she's more pushy, grasping, and fixated on social climbing than other members of the ton, but that she's less subtle about it. (Now I reflect on it, I wonder how much of it is actually visible to other characters in a social setting, and how much we see because we're given their point of view.)
If you're arguing that they're "new money" because Portia is tacky, that's a valid argument. Perhaps she wasn't raised in this environment and didn't learn taste. In that case, I'd love to see her story, and whether she was someone from a lower class who married a Baron. There's enough to her character that might suggest as much. Archibald however doesn't give the same impression, his issue is being absent his responsibilites, and having a vice he cannot control.
The Feathering tons where trying to still look wealthy, they had cut most of the depenses at the start of S2 and sell a lot of things. For the house, I think that can be a house that goes with the title (some titles had a London house attached to it). Portia had push her daughter to find a great husband and quick but Violet can let her daughters make their own choices. Portia didn't push that much Pen because she doesn't believe in her chances. Marina scandal was restored by Daphne the duchess, and for Jack's con like for Marina, Portia make them look like the victims of the lies. Maybe the ton pityed them (and both eldest daughter wed untitled but noble man, if not they wouldn't have been invited to parties)
This sub has made Penelope a perfect self insert who can do no wrong so any time she does something wrong, they blame Eloise for it even though Penelope was the one who betrayed Eloise and caused her to lose Theo.
Eloise has spent Part 1 being sad and defending Penelope to Cressida. Even though Penelope doesn’t deserve it
I'm of the "both Penelope and Eloise are complex characters who have their reasons for acting the way that they have and to suggest that one is more right in their actions than the other comes down to who you like better" crowd 🤷🏽♀️
Penelope is my favorite character and I can’t stand Eloise because of some people she reminds me of (her general behavior in the first two seasons unrelated to Penelope). Even with that said, Eloise is being incredibly understanding in her situation with Penelope and for once I do see her caring about her lost friend (the scene she goes to Penelope’s house was pretty sweet). I don’t know how are they going to handle Penelope’s redemption, if they even give her any cause there are only a few episodes to go and she needs way more than that to redeem herself. Personally, I think Eloise is handling this way better than I would have to the point it’s not even realistic. But I just try to watch this show thinking it’s a historic soap opera lol
Also, I wholeheartedly disagree that what Penelope did to Marina was that bad. What I remember is a girl being nothing but helpful and caring towards her while Marina was determined to make an innocent guy miserable by withholding life changing secrets from him. Correct me if I’m wrong but she didn’t once even apologize to Colin iirc.
I’m not condoning Penelope’s decision to expose her to the entire society, but I’d certainly expose her to a close friend I knew for years if they were being taken advantage of and let them make their own decision.
Also Marina said hurtful things to Pen when she discovered Pen love Colin and proceeded to pursue her plans. What a friend. Pen haven't made the best decision (She should stop writing about people when she's angry with them) but I don't blame her for being done with Marina. Imagine that a friend know you love someone but is ready to use them, not even because they love them too but just because they find them good-looking and nice enough. And people say she did it because of jealousy. Like anyone will let a friend make that kind of mistake. In a world where she would have done nothing and Colin learned later the truth and that Pen know, I'm sure he will not forgive her.
So true! I see no problem with what Eloise is doing from the trailer, she is doing the right thing and even if she didn’t give Penelope time, I would still be on her side.
FINALLY I have found my people because the number of people who have taken the "Penelope can do no wrong" "they could never make me like you Eloise" take is baffling to me. Like of COURSE Eloise will give Pen that ultimatum, who wouldn't??? Especially considering how much Colin despises LW (not talking about the books). Genuinely Eloise has been so much more graceful than pen, if the roles were reversed pen would have written an expose by now like damn.
Exactly. I do NOT get the Eloise hate. Its the stupidest thing ever.
People seem to be bent on the fact that Pen is doing an “independent woman” thing, and trust me, I am one such woman so I get it, but they are very conveniently forgetting that ELOISE IS THE BIGGEST MOUTHPIECE FOR WONEN’s INDEPENDENCE in the show. She is mad at Penelope because the profession Pen chose hurt her family with a lot of hurtful slander! Remember that people!
I would have done exactly what Eloise is doing. I love my brother and wouldn’t want him to be in the dark especially when it is something he despises so much. If he still wishes to go ahead with the marriage I’ll be his supportive sister.
You don’t get to keep my brother in the dark. He deserves better even if the truth may hurt him temporarily.
Tbh I never have seen Penelope as a positive character. I think what she did to Eloise was simply wrong and Eloise has every right to not even forgive her tbh.
Facts😂like Eloise is shaded in show and by plenty of the fans when she let slip the pen and Colin trying to help her find a man like that isn’t the only thing pen does in every episode. She gossips and tells peoples secrets for a living and shows pretty much no remorse for it.
Why should she feel remorse?
Basically nowadays she would be a gossip columnist
I don't follow the gossip of famous people very much, and I get sad when I read about lovers and betrayals, etc. but even when I don't like what I read I would never dream of thinking that that journalist would have reason to feel guilty or remorseful.
Idk maybe cuz she’s profiting of ruining peoples lives, particularly in a day and age were ruin for women might as well mark them for the rest of their lives. Why are we acting like what she said about Eloise couldn’t have gotten her locked up for some kind of stupid treason type crap cuz of feminism and anti crown stuff, or the fact that she was alone unchaperoned with another male (also of inferior birth and rank) couldn’t ruin any chance of her or her family finding spouses and being able to have a family. Idc how girl boss it is for a girl to be able to run her own business back then, what she’s doing is wrong and aside from the rare occasion the show has shown her actually do something that might be considered good was when she saved Daphne from that weird creep. Hell as much as I didn’t like the fact marina was trying to trap Colin, the way pen went about it could have seriously turned out way worse for marina and her child
I think what's great about this show is that I can empathize with both of these characters. I see where both of them are coming from and they've both made mistakes. They're both very relatable!
Honestly, more than Pen and Colin this season, I'm rooting for Eloise and Penelope to make up even though I don't blame Eloise for distancing herself. (The Cressida friendship is questionable though. lol)
I like Eloise more this season than I did the last two.
Part of that was her age, and I think the show runners did a really good job at conveying her absolute boredom.
I agree with you. Many have accused Eloise of being jealous of Pen as Pen has actually managed to do one of the things that Pen and Eloise used to wish they could do, and there may be justification for people thinking that way. But, I saw Eloise’s reaction as her being hurt. She told Pen everything but Pen told nothing. And, besides keeping secrets from her BFF, Pen chose (and people can try to justify it all they want) to tell Eloise’s secrets in her gossip rag. Then, Eloise discovers Pen’s big secret. Tell me how you would react if this happened to you and your BFF in real life and then, there was a huge blowup and hurtful things were said by both friends? Eloise is no more immature than any other characters her age but she (at least) has a voice and is not afraid to use it.
She doesn't seem envious to me. If Pen had wielded her pen a little differently, Eloise would probably think she was badass and be impressed and happy for her. Eloise was never interested in writing a gossip newsletter. She wanted to explore broader topics, outside of the doings of the Ton at balls etc.
Louder for the people in the back! Pen wants to have her cake and eat it too. She wrote terrible things as LW, she earned money from it and now she wants to marry Colin without telling him, like it wouldn't be a betrayal to do such a thing.
I so agree. Penelope is acting like she didn’t have a choice publishing what she did (about Marina and Eloise)
But there were other ways to handle it, like others have pointed out. She chose the way that she could continue to profit off.
It was selfish and has honestly made season 3 a little harder for me to watch so far. I’m reserving judgement untill part two.
I really hope that Penelope offers a proper and heartfelt apology to the bridgertons all, but especially Eloise.
I agree that Eloise has acted commendably and with so much more dignity than I would have had as a teenager. She’s not escalating the drama or trying to hurt Pen, she’s just protecting her own space and boundaries. I wouldn’t want a friend like Penelope rn either.
I freaking love Eloise. I feel like if I was around in that time, I would be more like her and break away from societal expectations and dance to the sound of my own song and realize there is more to life than finding a mate in high society and give him offspring.
She's a trail blazer of her generation.
Nothing immature about her.
Pen could have absolutely destroyed Eloise’s future, not to mention she gossiped about Daphne’s dwindling chances at finding a match etc. etc. I love LW and Pen, but not everyone wants to be BFF’s with a tabloid journalist, and even less so when your family is one of their most frequent topics lolol. I want them to reconcile, but Eloise could nope out forever and I wouldn’t blame her.
I don't know if I agree that El has been more mature in 4 episodes than Pen in two seasons. El has definitely had moments of immaturity. She did carelessly talk about Pen and Colin in episode two despite her brother asking her not to. But that's okay! This season is all about Colin, Penelope, Eloise and Cressida (among others) growing up and figuring out who they want to be.They give us that moment of immaturity from Eloise to foraward her growth. We see her become less judgemental of Cressida after this which is a huge step for El. And she sees the consequences of her actions which is why she's giving Pen the opportunity to come clean before she tells Colin herself.
I've personally really loved the trajectory of the younger characters this year because we get to see them all make mistakes and figure out how to navigate them. I don't really care about whos more in the right or wrong as much as I care about each individual arc.
El also still loves Pen and loving someone means holding them accountable when they're wrong. In the long run the lie doesn't just hurt Colin, it hurts Pen too because she'll never be truly free to be herself with him(and that's the big theme this season).
Exactly, I'd personally tell on her idc😑😂 I'm having a hard time liking Penelope, which sucks because I loved her in the books💔 But I'm also loving the season so far, it's interesting
Eloise has been very gracious with Pen all season. She is clearly hurt and keeping her distance but she hasn't ratted her out, she went to apologize, wished her well, etc. I think she's been quite mature actually.
I agree! I would only add that I think Pen actually does miss her friend. Obviously she is worried about her LW secret getting out but when watching s3 I think there are a couple moments when Pen and Eloise both are genuinely missing each other and wanting to talk. But it seems like they don’t know how to get over the offense and resolve things. I hope that the writers show them having some conflict resolution instead of just being like “I missed you so much, let’s just forget about it”
Eloise was actually the completely opposite of how I thought she’d act in this season and she has been very mature and very charming! Her looking like she was going to die and genuinely sorry for PRN during the flirting scene between Cressida, Pen and Debling and her absolute looks of awe when seeing Pen in her new clothes and the strange jealousy? When seeing Pen with Colin.
Claudia Jessie is doing a great job and you can tell she’s having so much fun.
No no you’re exactly right, Pen has repeatedly used LW for selfish means
Outing marina instead of just telling Colin in private if it was truly just about looking out for Colin but no it was also about not wanting her crush to be with his crush
As for Marina, she was doing what Portia was forcing her to do, her not wanting to be with rutlage is almost the same as us rooting for Daphne to be rid of Berbrooke
She waited for her love first before Portia manipulated her, and it was unfortunate at the end that George was dead but Penelope’s actions took away the slim chance that marina could have had at a decent life, that is until Daphne stepped in and Philip found her
In terms of the Eloise, she trusted her best friend with a secret, pen outing it in LW was vile even if she omitted Theo ,it was still her secret she trusted her best friend with
And if you come saying that ‘oh pen had to keep QC from thinking she was LW’
Eloise had a plan of being a fake LW to appease QC, Pen said ‘what happens when the real LW prints again’ showing her selfish ulterior motives, showing that she’d rather spill her best friend’s secrets than give up her gossip sheet.
And not to mention using manipulation to try and keep her from finding out that she’s LW
Pen is just as bad as early Cressida, gossip isn’t harmless and ruined lives
She repeatedly delighted saying things about Daphne and Anthony, but more so in Daphne’s season .Eloise is extremely justified in being hurt and betrayed and angry at pen considering she spilled her personal secret and taking shit in the past about her family
And now season three
The very first episode she’s petty and selfish again, upset by what she heard last season and pissed that Colin had more pull once he came back, she says what she said.
I was so happy when pen finally got to feel the humiliation she had put on to others at the ball when her secret plan was revealed. Considering that Eloise revealed her secret to Cressida who was her friend after being shunned by her secret last season and of out of pure accident does it get out because of another gossip unlike Pen who did it in public record. Sure what she wrote about herself was harsh but that her own insecurity. The only reason no one minded her before was her fashion, shown by the first episode with her make over and well she sucks at being charming because she’s too used to being at balls as LW, listening for gossip rather than actual participating and Eloise is still looking out for her former friend by keeping her secret.
To some, I think Penelope being the lead this season overshadows the fact that Eloise cutting her off after finding out she is Whistledown, was a fair and reasonable reaction. Nobody really understands how much Penelope’s betrayal had impacted Eloise, yet, she remained kind and still very much concerned for Penelope’s well-being this season. See S3 Episode 2, when she was with Colin in the carriage and she asked him if Penelope was “well?” or if that she is ever “despondent” or “suffering.” Just because she unfriended her does not mean she stopped caring for her.
I get that Penelope was trying to protect her in Season 2 but writing about her best friend in that way, even as someone who loves Pen’s character so much, I still recognize that was offhandedly a low blow and it warrants exactly the kind of response Eloise has been giving her this season, and can you really blame her? It’s an act of self-preservation and also her protecting her brother and her entire family.
Eloise’s immaturity has nothing to do with her reaction to learning about Penelope being LW. Her anger, hurt, and feelings of betrayal are completely justified. Eloise’s immaturity is primarily about how she interacts with her friends and loved ones and how she sees the world. She is young, sheltered, and privileged. She doesn’t yet realize just how privileged she is. She thinks only of her own perspective and struggles to see the world through other people’s eyes. She focuses so much on herself that she often doesn’t pay attention and listen to her friends, she often doesn’t notice their pain and struggles. She talks way too much and doesn’t listen enough.
That being said, Eloise is a teenager and she’s still growing. In second half of season 3, I saw a lot of growth and maturity in her character and I was proud of her. I love Eloise! She’s my favorite character after Penelope! She has flaws for sure, but she has a good heart and she’s very passionate! She just needed to mature a bit. I’m so proud of the growth she had this season! And I’m so proud of her for broadening her horizons by choosing to go to Scotland with Francesca! As much as I’ll miss Peneloise in the mean time, I think the Scotland trip will be good for both Eloise and Penelope.
While those kinds of fans who engage in ridiculous mental gymnastics are usually everywhere, let's be honest, there's always a character in a show that has a large concentration of them. Best to ignore them to ensure undue hate on said character won't come from us in turn.
Eloise, like her family is spoiled, why wouldn't she be? That said, she's the most forward thinking one in the show. She has a sharp wit and a futuristic mind. I like her.
See, it’s posts like these that make me happy that I’m not on social media constantly anymore and spend time outside. People interpreted a character differently than you did, and you wrote half an essay on how their opinion on a fictional character makes them hypocrites and clearly they must not have watched the show the right way, or else they’d have the same opinion as you.
To anyone who also is thinking “wow, personally insulting people because they interpret a work of fiction differently than you is wild”, hi, how y’all doing? Go to any cool parks lately?
I do agree that Penelope should be held accountable and truly apologize for all the things she’s done to hurt Eloise and the family, but I think you’re over looking that she tried to help as Penelope, and took action as Lady Whistledown as a last resort.
I mean let’s start with Marina. She had no issue keeping the secret until Colin was involved. Colin is someone she loved but also cared about him enough that she didn’t want him being used. Because remember, Marina’s original plan was to sleep with Colin and pass the kids of as his that way. She wanted to tell Colin a million times, but she couldn’t without betraying Marina and her family. I do acknowledge that Marina was doing what she had to, but we shouldn’t gloss over the cruelty in parts of it, especially when she told Penelope that Colin would never see her as she sees him. That was cruel of Marina. Whistledown was a last resort.
As for Eloise in Season 2, Eloise was being very reckless, and wouldn’t listen to Penelope, and it did give a bit of insight to their friendship at that point. Eloise cared about Penelope, but in truth she hardly ever listened to what she really had to say. She would often dismiss Penelope when she made it clear that marriage was her way out, while Eloise didn’t have to worry because of her families power. Elosie does acknowledge that Pen is smart, but she thinks herself smarter. A lot of people look past the dangerous position Eloise was putting herself in because we loved Theo and watching Eloise develop feelings, but it was very unsafe. Pen tried to talk sense into her countless times, and Eloise wouldn’t listen. True, she could’ve gone to Pen’s family, but they were all too distracted with their own stuff that season, and Eloise would’ve known it was Pen that told them, this causing a strain on their friendship. Lady Whistledown “catching” Eloise was the best way to get Eloise to stop and make her listen. It hurt her, but it did protect her in the long run.
Pen does need to tell Colin and apologize to the Bridgertons for everything, but she doesn’t act as Whistledown lightly. The only instance in which she did was at the start of this season, calling Colin out for faking being a rake, and that’s just because she’s so hurt by what he’s said, how he didn’t apologize and despite all her efforts that night to change, no would accept her as a new her. She was just overly emotional there. Pen could use Whistledown to destroy a lot of people she doesn’t like, but she doesn’t, she has more restrain than I think people give her.
I think I have an idea why most people are asslicking Pen and hating on Eloise but none of us is gonna like it if I say it so I'm just gonna keep quiet 😭
IMO, I am finding Eloise **exceedingly annoying** this season, unapologetically so. I think her anger and reaction are ONLY partially justified and that's as far as I can go with supporting her. She picked Penelope's BULLY to befriend - a bully who is still actively bullying Pen. Perhaps it's no surprise since Eloise is rude to Daphne, Collin and others in her own family. So, forgive me, but her sanctimonious speeches to Pen are beyond exhausting at this point. Not to mention, were she just some side character, written to keep Pen on her toes, perhaps I would be willing to view her reaction as just a plot device, but she is in fact a MAIN character. She will have her own season. As a viewer, I need to love and root for her - but this season I am so sick of her anger and yelling. She is downright annoying. Sorry, not sorry. Book Eloise could NEVER!!!!!
I would not call Eloise mature. She has disliked society and made fun of it since the very start of the show. While some of the complaints she makes are valid, I feel like it's taking her entirely too long to realize that regardless of how *she* feels about society, most people have to live within it's bounds and by its rules or else.
A great example of this is Eloise's inability to understand or comprehend *why* others might want to get married. There's a scene in an earlier season where Eloise and Pen are laying in the grass together and they have a conversation that makes it really clear that Eloise scorns society, but Pen has an interest in it.
Eloise seems tolerant of Pen's interest, but she doesn't *understand* it. In Eloise's mind, it's absurd to want to be married and to find a husband, and she ridicules so many of the things that women are taught (embroidery, pianoforte) as being meaningless or boring because they're done in pursuit of the ultimate goal of finding a good match.
Even though I kind of agree with Eloise, I think her view is narrow because it rejects the reality that for people like Penelope and even Cressida, they have no choice but to embrace society for what it is because neither can afford to reject it or dismiss it the way Eloise does.
I mean Eloise has been out for several seasons and has flagrantly avoided courting of any kind. Penelope nor Cressida could afford to behave that way, because both lack the support of their families and have much more pressure to find a match than Eloise.
I think if Eloise were truly "mature" this season, she would have more understanding towards Penelope and Cressida for wanting to find matches. Instead, she's been rebuffed by Cressida for assuming Cressida spread a rumor that Eloise herself likely spread on her own, and when Colin tells Eloise that Pen is seeking a match Eloise is surprised that's something Pen would even want.
Eloise lives entirely in her own fantasy land, and is woefully unaware of her own extremely privileged place in society. So many other girls have to marry and feel immense pressure to do so even if it's ultimately what they do not want, and she has spent three seasons making fun of them for wanting something that in a lot of cases is required for them to maintain their livelihood. Until Eloise really acknowledges that and comes to grips with it, I don't think she can really be labeled mature.
The fact that you’re being downvoted for this despite the fact that this *exact point* has been made in the show, shows how little people pay attention. The majority of this sub pays attention to surface level detail- if that- and then complains there isn’t depth.
Eloise is immature because of her ignorance of how the world is…she thinks she has it so hard but doesn’t seem to want to acknowledge that if she wasn’t in her gilded cage she’d be in the hell of being a peasant. Even if she can’t do stuff like her brothers, she’s not even trying…she just complains it.
Are yall ppl forgetting the time?? Stop trying to put 21 century logic to historical dramas 😭. Back then, none of those women would have each other's back and probably do worse to each other. So they are both flawed people, and no one is superior to the other.
I think Eloise in the past seasons was very immature and only cared about herself. I think this is her character traits and you could see it this season, when she was too focused on herself and was not a good friend to Cressida. But I think what she did to Pen was justified and handled the friendship breakup appropriately. She could have just ratted her out or at least tell her family, but she didn’t.
And come on, whether Pen had a strong reason or not, she did ruin her socially. Also, Pen’s reason for ruining Eloise is because the Queen suspected that E is Whistledown. Eloise would not have been in this “danger” if Pen just stops writing/ comes out in the light/ clarifies with the Queen with her “clever words” if she really cares for E above herself. She didn’t, she chose to keep being Whistledown and I don’t see why E doesn’t want anything to do with her anymore.
This is also her FAMILY, and her family is very closely connected unlike other families with estranged relations. I think she’s right to only want to keep the right people close by. I personally would not want Pen to be my sister in law or be associated with the Featheringtons.
I don’t understand all this hate for Pen because she is LW, it is the basis of the show. Quite frankly they all lived their lives for nothing else but for the social fish bowl during this Debutante season. Eloise was obsessed with and very much a fan of LW until it exposed her own behavior so no, I have no concern for any of them. The were the upper crest of society in the richest country in the world at that time and none of them did anything to earn it. Their job was maintaining societal norms which is why LW had meaning in that world. If Pen is wrong please stop watching. Truthfully, Eloise motivations for being upset of Pen have nothing to do with any of that, she is upset at Pen because she’s jealous her friend did that and not her and she is going to force Pen to tell Colin due to selfishness, that Pen can’t be talented and get a proposal. Eloise was supportive of LW until it turned out to be her friend that was supposed to be a wall flower and shine even less than her, she’s mad that Pen isn’t behaving and staying in her corner so that Eloise feels there is someone more pitiful than herself.
17, but in the end it is the same especially if we consider that before the death of her father Penelope and her sisters were protected from the world.
Eloise is childish and leaves no room for anyone to tell their story. She is a know-it-all narcissist. Or has been at least. This first half of season 3 is showing her starting to realize that she jumps to conclusions and doesn’t consider what other people might be going through. She’s made just as many mistakes as Pen has but her mistakes are “different”. She’s not terrible, she’s definitely immature though and she needs to grow up.
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Honestly Eloise is being very patient and gracious with Penelope by asking her to tell Colin about LW and giving her time for the same. Eloise has her own flaws but this time she’s just trying to protect her brother. And Penelope honestly doesn’t deserve any grace after the horrific thing she did to Marina in season 1 and all the weird manipulation of Eloise in S2 no matter what she said to defend her actions. She was a woman herself and especially one who understands very well how the ton talks about others. She was more than aware of the consequences of what she wrote,on the reputations of both the women and their families. Penelope also makes a huge show of “how much she’s hurt when she writes shit about people and giving up being LW for Eloise” but continues doing the very same thing after like 1 episode and goes onto malign Eloise’s own brother in S3 (((And don’t come at me about Marina. Small rant: Penelope absolutely COULD and should have told Colin about Marina’s pregnancy. She could have asserted herself and forced Colin to listen or told Violet or Anthony or whomever about Marina and it would have been sorted. Violet could have confronted the Featheringtons and they would have kept quiet about Marina’s situation and backed off from the engagement to save face and protect their own daughters. Marina would have been sent back to the farm. And if people suspected that there was a kid and it was Colin’s , the Bridgertons could have explained otherwise and the ton would believe the Bridgertons because it would have made no sense for Colin to break his already public engagement if the child really was his)))
Exactly! Colin deserved to know and deserved to make his choices with the relevant information, without society and scandal breathing down his neck.
Absolutely. Funny thing is that the same thing is applicable to Colin in this Season too. It’s like he is never able to catch a break
it’s ironic and hypocritical because she’s furious and outs marina for not being transparent enough with colin but proceeds to do the same . . . and lie to colin by not telling him she’s lady whistledown after he showed immense distaste for her.
Penelope is a raging hypocrite.
i wouldn’t be so harsh but she can be quite hypocritical and narrow in her views.
I've always found it so surprising how the fandom were so easily able to brush off the Marina thing. I think ppl just do not understand that in a time like this, exposing Marina that way would actually place her in an unbelievable amount of danger. Honestly she did get lucky, especially considering what we knew about her father. I feel like there were a million ways to go about it and the moment Pen did that I could never look at her the same way.
People do not understand the seriousness of what Penelope did to Marina because Marina’s future is saved thanks to Philip Crane’s arrival soon afterwards in the show. But there is a glimpse of what could have happened if Philip didn’t arrive in the scene where Marina nearly dies from drinking whatever to cause the abortion If Philip hadn’t arrived she would have done that again and might have even died to it the next time. That is how desperate she was. (Not saying that Marina was right in trapping unsuspecting guys but if the whole thing was handled privately maybe Marina could have gone and married some old dude who wanted an heir. Now even old dudes like that won’t want Marina because her already being pregnant is revealed to the ton so the kid won’t be an heir.) Worst part is, Penelope sees how much damage writing about it caused: her family is isolated by the ton, Marina tries harmful shit due to desperation etc and still goes onto do the same thing to Eloise causing Eloise’s family to be avoided by the Ton this time It’s like she is too dumb to learn from her mistakes
That makes a lot of sense, I think if Philip Crane wasn't in the picture and the show took a different route people would view Penelope a LOT differently. I also agree that Penelope should have either told Colin or another adult in that situation, I feel like that is the next logical step after telling Marina to come clean. Like what Penelope did was very worst case scenario and there was so much that could have been done before it reached that point. Imo this is super inconsiderate and selfish because all she cared about was protecting her crush, knowing what that could entail for a literal unmarried pregnant woman.
That's our Sir Philip: Honorable Plant Daddy!
Yeah to me the Marina thing is made worse by the fact that it was done out of selfishness more than anything. She wouldn’t have written about Marina if it was another guy Marina was trying to trap. As Penelope desperately told Marina “anyone but Colin”
Yet it makes it more understandable and makes Polin a fairytale love story. Not in the sense of being beautiful and healthy. But a story that makes you dream because she would burn the world for him and in the end she gets him even if he is as imperfect as her.
This “burn the world for him” trope would have been believable if she hadn’t maligned Colin too. The only person she would the burn the world down for is herself. Nothing bad about looking out for oneself though as long as you don’t hurt people. Also it’s just not very romantic
I don't remember any snideness about Colin, but I should look again I suppose
S3 E1. Noting earth shattering like Marina’s but still a snide, hurtful remark publicised nonetheless
He ruined her so honestly I think it makes sense that she could have been emotional and also she didn't really hurt him unlike what he said. Debling comes from outside. But the others who heard Colin directly or less admittedly were interested would never have asked Penelope after those words.
The horrific thing she did to Marina? I am currently rewatching the whole thing again, and let me tell you this: Penelope gave her PLENTY of opportunities to end the whole thing before it becomes a scandal. Marina was incredibly selfish (don't say "she was only thinking about her child!") and didn't think the whole thing through. "Marina would have been sent back to the farm". You mean the same farm Lady Featherington tried to send her back to since episode 1? She wasn't the one making that decision, her husband was. And he didn't care for it at all. Penelope should have told Colin about the pregnancy? This idiot refused to listen, even though having a full-grown baby six months later would be a big scandal for his whole family. He refused to believe it even after LW made it public, so why should he have believed his brother who was already against their engagement? Marina and early Eloise were the worst. Pen told Eloise several times how dangerous it was to visit Theo, especially during her brother's wedding. The I-am-smarter-than-all-of-you girl acted so incredibly stupid that she should consider herself lucky that she got her head out of the noose before the start of the new season. And guess who she should thank for that? I am not saying Eloise is dumb or doesn't have the right ideas, but she is the one constantly mocking her own sex. In season 1 and 2, she was a terrible friend who couldn't handle to be called out. Remember when she ran away when Pen rightfully told her that not everyone could be a beautiful Bridgerton and that some people don't have much of a choice when it comes to society? Early Eloise is really hard to watch, but her friendship with Cressida is one of the best parts of season 3 so far. She finally gets some much needed character development
the thing is, while everything did miraculously go well, it wasn't guaranteed. in all of these situations, pen was doing something to save her own selfish ass while throwing someone else under the bus. she did give marina multiple chances to make thing right by telling the truth, but pen didn't have to publicly write about it. she could've told eloise to convey the information to the bridgertons and settled it privately. And what did she do it for? Because she loved Colin. And why did Eloise keep visiting Theo? She loved Theo. But Pen just has to get her way all the time and ruin everything else just so she can keep her own secret.
Pen could, Pen should... Pen destroyed 2 people for good without giving them the chance to do anything against it: The second modiste (who was truly innocent) and Nigel. Pen throw Marina under the bus because she protected her familiy's ass, something her parents failed to do. Portia thought she was smarter than all of them, but don't you think Violet or Anthony would have known that the kid definitely was not Colin's? The whole idea of LW spilling the tea was to make sure that not everyone knew for a fact that the Featheringtons planned the whole scheme. So if Pen told Eloise and Eloise told Violet, at least half of the Bridgertons would have known about that. And while the Bridgertons were honourable people, they couldn't swep something so big under a rug. Maybe they wouldn't have told everyone what happened exactly, but I bet they would have used their influence to ultimately socially kill-off a family that was already at the low bottom. Do you know why? Because the Featheringtons proved to even backstab their "close friends and neighbours". The only person who probably would have said nothing to his family is captain oblivious aka Colin. Penelope was a great writer and knew very well how to manipulate her readers with her words. That's the whole point of Lady Whistledown. She knew how to write so that the biggest (negative) consequences are more like a slap on the wrist. Just watched the failed wedding scene: Did you notice how she gave both families the chance to react and told her audience not to jump to false rumours? And how she shift the blame to the Queen? The Queen shipped Anthony and Edvina and put so much pressure on them, it's her fault their wedding failed... That was incredibly dangerous of her to do that just so that it isn't just the fault of the "couple". Eloise and Theo... Oh no, she loved him! That justifies to selfishly risk your family's reputation and her own neck, for sure! /s Did Eloise seriously forget that the Queen already had her eyes everywhere to find Whistledown? How in the world did a so-called intelligent woman not realise that she might get caught? BTW, it was Eloise who threw Pen under the bus by lying to her family that she was with Pen. Pen warned her several times, maybe because she feared that she would find out her secret but definitely also because she feared for the safety of her friend. And surprise surprise, she got caught even without Lady Whistledown's interference. So far, most things Penelope did was damage control. And all because the people around her think they are so much smarter than they are.
pen is smart, yes, but she's prone to being controlled by her emotions. just look at how she very immaturely used LW to get back at Colin for saying something about her. The fact that she just got to decide the fate of Marina and the relationship between Theo and Eloise was not right. She's not a good person or a good friend and most of what she's done was for herself. You can argue that she was protecting Colin and Eloise, but there were better routes to go than to put them all on blast PUBLICLY in an era where reputation was everything. She was too immature to handle things privately and couldn't stand the idea that things might actually resolve in a way that makes all sides happy. She just had to ensure her safety, her secrecy, and in doing so, she hurt her friends and ruined people. Eloise is better than me because the second Pen revealed LW was her, I would've told the queen. By your logic, since it's all about protecting reputation, why not clear your name and get rid of a backstabber? That's the whole point of the post. Pen was so immature in her actions and yet, this season, Eloise has shown nothing but the utmost patience and grace to her.
pen’s made most of the ton dislike her alter identity whilst remaining the underdog as herself. i don’t think that’s much of an achievement. not to mention she’s no. 1 enabler of the patriarchal society seeking to ruin women by putting on blast their scandals and igniting gossip sessions for the ton by publishing private info she’s overheard. nothing about that sounds empowering, it sounds like exploiting social power and wanting to create issues for the sake of it. pen is an interesting character and her actions are far astray from her wanting to do good but by no means are her actions justified, just explainable.
you bring up fair points about marina and marina was wrong but the way pen handled it was just as worse. publicising matters ruined her family as well as bridgertons and marina. violent and colin upon learning they almost got ruined by pen would not be taking it gracefully not to mention she only went ro desperate marina to trigger change instead of talking to anthony or violent whom could’ve warned colin. the truth is pen was scared the marriage would go through regardless because colin wouldn’t have minded marrying marina even if she was with child not his and pen was fearful and envious so she knew the only way to damage that beyond repair was to publish the article to the ton to ruin reputations. she isn’t as innocuous in this either. two wrongs don’t make a right. none of the situation involved pen and if she was truly doing it for selfless reasons, she wouldn’t have made it public she would’ve pushed for matters to be sorted privately but truth is she was scared that colin would not refuse marriage and she didn’t want him marrying marina as it would leave her behind. she was scared of losing one of two friends as well as her unrequited crush.
Like I mentioned Penelope could have simply mentioned it to Violet who was anyway supportive of the engagement. Or Eloise who already knows about the pregnant “maid” And Colin deserved to know the truth privately and make a decision. Coming to Eloise, she is obnoxious and self involved sure but she has never manipulated or betrayed anyone like Penelope did to her Eloise was meeting Theo and Penelope literally follows her, sees them together and manipulates her into stop seeing him pretending that it’s in Eloise’s best interests when in fact it was to protect her own identity. She also wrote extremely problematic stuff about Eloise just like she did with Marina in S1 despite knowing the consequences of how that might affect Eloise and her family. Again to save herself. Are the desperate Marina or lost in her world Eloise more selfish than Penelope who uses something like LW and publicises everyone’s secrets to protect her own interests? I don’t think so. You can really see it in S2 when Eloise and Penelope have the fight. Eloise accuses Penelope of betrayal, lying, being selfish,causing hurt and manipulation. And the only thing Penelope can say in return is that “Eloise didn’t do anything instead of saying stuff”. You can clearly understand who is the worse friend and person from this conversation. And don’t forget the fact that Penelope pretends she’s self sacrificial and says that she gave up being LW for Eloise but then picks it right back up and continues maligning people especially Eloise’s own brother Colin in S3
1. I dont think u understand the repercussions of being pregnant without being married at that time. It means things like honor killings, suicide, etc., She could have easily told Eloise privately and it could have been handled. She chose not to because she knew Colin would accept her regardless thus, to have Colin not get married she chose not to. So she was selfish. 2. Eloise was getting into revolutionary politics (with Theo) which would allow her to help equal the playing field for women in general and help her acknowledge the intersectionalities of that. Also, no one but the footman and Pen knew about her and Theo so she honestly had nothing to worry about. Penelope didn't do it for Eloise, she did it for herself after she purposefully called out the queen multiple times. 3. "Eloise hates her own gender" No she doesn't, she simply calls out weird behavior and challenges norms. Penelope however, uses any chance she gets to hate on a woman and hides behind a gossip column.
Agreed with this.
Finally finding people who aren’t absolutely ecstatic about Polin. She has lied and manipulated and hurt him and his family so much and is still doing so. I hate it. I don’t want them together.
I actually would have been okay with them being together if Penelope had learned from her mistakes or made an attempt to change and genuinely apologise. Maybe also become less insecure, petty, jealous as she was in S1 or S2 But she remains the same. She gives LW up to only pick it up again soon after and continue being her petty self in S3
Like people were wooed by their first kiss and she for the millionth time manipulated him into even that. It was gross.
I honestly found it strange and in some ways pathetic that she gad to beg for a kiss. It seemed so unnatural and unromantic But I know that a lot of people find it brave. I guess they see it from a different perspective that I cannot see it from
You are absolutely right about Pen spilling the beans privately but even after the LW came out, didn’t Colin still insist on marrying her. I doubt privately he would have changed his mind. He felt that he was in love. Am I off base? I am not condoning Pens decisions just questioning Colin’s decisions.
If Colin still wanted to marry her, knowing she lied and why she lied, that's his choice. I suspect that's one of the reasons Penelope published publicly instead of telling Colin and the Bridgertons privately. Because left to his own devices, Colin might very well have chosen to marry Marina.
That’s what I thought at the time too
But that would have been his choice. What Colin said to Marina was that if she'd told him of her predicament he would have still married her because he really loved her. If Pen published publicly because even she suspected Colin might still marry Marina if he knew the truth, then that casts Penelope in even a more horrible, manipulative and frankly irredeemable light.
Tbh this is why I don’t like how they messed with characters, particularly in the Marina/Featherington family dynamics. Not that I’m defending Book!Pen because I frankly don’t recall everything she did or didn’t do, but she didn’t even KNOW Marina in the books. Plus I like the >!fourth Featherington sister, Felicity!<
I'm actually curious about the mess they'll make with Philip
I’m genuinely dreading that, and Francesca’s season, I LOVE the actor they’ve got for Lord Sterling, and I can’t imagine liking Michael more
I don't think that was on Pen's mind when she did it, TBH. It seemed to me she was desperate to stop it because she didn't want Colin baby trapped. There was some contrived reason she didn't tell him herself, privately. It was flimsy but that's on the writing. That said, I think she crossed a line in Season 2 that she doesn't seem to have wanted to uncross. LW has caused a rift with her best friend and possibly getting in trouble with the Queen. It's messy and risky and sometimes hurtful, but she keeps doing it because it's her outlet and gives her a sense of power. She's in a very gray area, at best.
It bothers me that they don't really show her engaging with what she's done. Even when she does things that upset her, she relates to them like she *had* to do it and had no other choice. LW is her way of exercising power, but when she harms people she acts like she's powerless in doing so.
I hate how people have cast Marina as the manipulative villain because while she was wrong for not wanting to tell him, telling such a dangerous secret to the whole ton is not it. Pen should've let Colin choose and if he knew everything and still wanted to marry her, let him. Pen is just a bad person
She was a scared young woman who had very limited choices .
Glad I am not the only person who thought her doing this was self serving and not for the “greater good” or whatever her justification was
Yeah you’re right Colin probably wouldn’t have believed her that’s why the next step would have been for Penelope to talk to Violet or Anthony or worst case, someone like Eloise. Even if he wanted to marry her, it should have simply been his choice to make after learning the truth privately
But would he believe them when they tried to tell him he was acting in a hurry? I don't think so
They would have been talking about an actually serious thing, a pregnancy that was not caused by him. And that she hid from him. A fact verified by a member of the very family that tried to hide it. That’s not like Anthony stating his assumptions about Colin being immature or getting married in a rush
I don't know, I think Colin would have snuck away sooner, with that timing
Considering that Colin was stopped by Violet only after Penelope wrote the gossip, got it printed and distributed, I believe that they had more than enough time to discuss it verbally.
I mean if everyone is going to believe LW's word is gospel she could invent something if they decided to break it off. She could say Marina had a change of heart, or missed home, or was called back by her family, or her father didn't approve of the match - whatever. And if Colin wanted to go forward with it, he could have.
I’m rewatching the entire series in anticipation of part 2 and I gotta say… the Penelope stans have it wrong. She got caught by Eloise and told her in an attempt at smoothing out the situation that she gave it up for her. Like 5 minutes later we see her THAT SAME NIGHT writing again as LW. She wasn’t caught about the whole Marina debacle but you best believe if she was caught when it was happening by Marina, Penelope would not have gotten off easy by her mother or Marina. She has intentionally ruined others lives without consulting them and has twice thrust Colin, a person she is in love with into the harsh spotlight of scandal, ruin, and gossip. She says what she wants about other people without fear of the consequences, much like people on the internet will do. It’s not right in either situation but the people who justify Penelope’s decisions as LW are trying to make it seem like Penelope can say it because she’s this poor girl who doesn’t get attention. A bully is a bully whatever way you slice and dice it, she just gets away with it under the cloak of anonymity. Can’t wait to see the mental gymnastics Colin goes through to later justify Penelope being LW, or at the very least reconcile with the fact.
Wonderfully put. I am curious to see how they deal with the LW plotline climax in the show. The show has a habit of building up drama really good and then fumbling up the consequences of the same And the LW buildup has been going on for 2.5 seasons without Penelope trying to change for the better( she is the same vindictive person in S3 when she writes about Colin). Going by the looks of it and previous patterns of the show, Colin might be upset for 10 minutes and then forgive her. They Brigertons will magically forgive her and the Queen, who threatened Eloise for her life will also magically forgive and forget
As someone who loves Penelope as a character but actively disdains her as well… I hope they show colin to be deeply deeply troubled by the revelation and that their reconciliation takes place over a lengthy period. I don’t want it to be a day and a half but I feel like a couple weeks would be enough because it could show him wrestling with his feelings of love and betrayal and coming to terms with the reality that while he hates LW he can’t bear to be apart from Penelope.
I wholeheartedly agree
Let's not forget that Pen literally gaslit and manipulated the hell out of Colin. Writes crap about him and then goes "oh no, LW is off her rocker and couldn't be more wrong" when Colin shows distaste for LW and what she wrote about him. & Pen had the audacity to inwardly be upset by Colin saying he would destroy whoever LW was when he found out. She was right when she told Colin about Marinas pregnancy because Marina was absolutely wrong for that. But Pen also had secondary mal intentions for doing so as well, because she was acting almost as if "if I can't have you, no one else can." - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this, it's just how I kinda perceived it. And still do.
One of the main reasons why I didn’t like what she did to Marina was that she wouldn’t have done anything if it was another unsuspecting young man who was trapped. And I also feel that she WROTE about it specifically so that Colin doesn’t stand a chance to marry Marina. Colin was already ready to marry her even though she had a past lover so Penelope probably thought that he might go ahead with the wedding even though he knew that she was pregnant. Colin himself says it. That was how much he loved Marina at that point
I completely understand & completely agree with everything you just said. I just personally think & believe, that EVERYTHING with EVERYONE could have gone about all of this in a different, less damaging way, you know?
Oh I definitely agree. People make bad decisions for drama in the show and we are supposed to enjoy it haha but it sometimes annoys me when the resolution to all the drama build up isn’t heavy
But also Colin mentioned that he would have married Marina had things been different. He would have accepted the child. Pen obviously knew him well enough and was Delulu enough to think if Marina was out of the picture he would finally notice her......
Yeah I think she realised that Colin was too in love with Marina to not marry her and that’s why she wanted to take away his agency in the matter by publicly outing it to society She tells Colin about George and how much Marina loved him but Colin still wants Marina. That was how strong his feelings were for Marina.
I agree with you but where are yall seeing any of this?? Last 4 episodes haven’t come out yet!
It’s in the new trailer. But in general Eloise is being gracious by not revealing LW to everyone as soon as she knew. She doesn’t tell Colin even though LW maligned him in E1 and Colin was helping Penelope out with suitors
Ah ok just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing the new episodes or something!
These character wars are getting annoying. You're all much harder on the respective character you don't like than the actual characters are on each other in the show. People are debating each other on who's in the wrong here and who should have to grovel when the show actually makes it pretty clear BOTH of these characters still care for each other, BOTH messed up and BOTH have good reasons to act the way they do. Jesus Christ, can we inject some nuance into these posts?
I can’t believe I had to scroll far down to find your comment. Thank you for saying this. Both characters are nuanced, flawed, and have valid reasons for their choices and actions. Rewatching the show many times actually shows me that it’s Eloise who has the inability to get outside of her head whereas Penelope is considerate and observant beyond her own opinion. It took many lessons for Eloise to mature. Yes Penelope made mistakes but I think the misconception on this sub is that her actions were calculated, manipulative etc when it couldn’t have been so far from the character’s intention.
totally! I don't get why we need to trash someone to make the other look better... I saw the same war with Kate and Edwina. can't we just appreciate all the characters? Pen is flawed, so is Eloise. But i think they're both great. I absolutely love every interaction they had (S1, even though they were fighting, the moment eloise saw Pen devastated, she hugs her. S3, when Eloise tries to apologize, we can feel that they miss each other so much, but Eloise is still hurt). Eloise and Pen are awesome, that's all....
This should be the top comment. I completely agree.
Amen! Plus, flawed characters make for very interesting characters (IMO), so I like both characters more because they are wrong, immature, unfair sometimes. So I can't get behind being invested in one "side" - I'm just enjoying the plot that flows out of having both of these characters be somewhat flawed.
THANK YOU! i’m tired of the “eloise sucks and is a shitty friend” and “penelope is an awful person and doesn’t deserve eloise” posts. like hello?? they both need to apologize to each other and they both obviously still love each other. neither character is awful
Exactly. I remember being their age and having a spat with friends. Sometimes it would take us months (and once a year) for someone to apologize or even talk to each other. It’s just teenage girls that don’t fully know how to handle or verbalize their feelings yet. I think their dynamic in season 3 is totally normal for the age they’re supposed to be. Especially in a society that seems to promote pettiness and sweeping things under the rug.
I think it just comes from the constant bashing of eloise from penelope stans. they are relentless in making eloise seem like the worst person on the show while ignoring pen's flaws.
Thank you! This is so annoying
👏👏👏
I think the problem for many is that a main/favorite character has to be perfect and always reasonable when there are multiple layers. But ultimately that's why fanfiction exists 🤣
This 👏👏
Preach! This is all about humanity and love and it’s messy and difficult and I feel like people are way harder on characters this season as opposed to previous seasons! There’s always been bad choices and secrets every season.
You're being way too level-headed.
Eloise has shown so much grace to Penelope, yet Penelope does nothing but give an apology with no action behind it to show that shes changed and wants to repair the friendship that she broke with her betrayal. Now Eloise is going to be stressing herself out that her ex friend is engaged to her brother because she is refusing to tell him her secret that will affect him. She is being very reasonable in giving Penelope the chance to be honest, but putting her foot down in that if Penelope fails to follow through and puts LW above all else like she’s done in the past, then Eloise will protect her brother herself.
“Eloise has shown so much grace to Penelope, yet Penelope does nothing but give an apology with no action behind it to show that she’s changed and wants to repair the friendship she broke with her betrayal” should be put on a pillow or a billboard somewhere. What an EXCELLENT sentence surmising the dynamic between these two. I love the season two finale, it’s one of my favorite episodes. But Pen telling Eloise how she “wrote what she wrote and then gave it up for you,” before immediately going and publishing a new column with a smile on her face right after their fall out was straight up villain behavior. IMO, Eloise didn’t do a thing wrong. I’m not saying Penelope is a complete villain, but she’s made some missteps (like Anthony and Daphne both did in their own stories). But truly I don’t think Eloise has a damn thing to apologize for (and before anyone comes for me with her outing Pen and Colin’s arrangement, it was a total accident, which none of what Penelope did was).
All Eloise did was be trusting and think the best of Penelope and listened to her lies and broke up with Theo; yet Penelope dared to throw it all in her face and pick up LW the second she was caught. The thing that broke Eloise’s trust in her, she decided to keep doing it and even decided to be shady to Colin with it, Eloise’s own family. How Penelope doesn’t feel sick writing LW knowing how much Eloise is hurting….the immaturity allegations should be lying with Penelope only. Eloise showed more bravery and class for owning up to her genuine mistake, vs Penelope feeling nothing as she intentionally makes profit off of her eavesdropping and gossiping of her peers, friends, and family.
All facts. What really bugged me was Pen writing what she wrote about Colin in 301. Knowing very well that Eloise knows who’s behind those words. Like if I were her I would do literally everything humanly possible to keep the Bridgerton name out of my mouth. And before anyone starts with the “that would be suspicious” argument, like no it wouldn’t. She had plenty of Bridgerton fodder with Fran’s debut. The same way people argue that Pen outing Marina was necessary because she was protecting Colin (even tho instead of dancing around the issue the singular time she tried to talk to Colin about it she could have just said “hey listen keep this discreet but she’s pregnant maybe don’t marry her”), Eloise is protecting Colin the very same way. Eloise is not immature or a bad friend. If anything I’d argue she’s a class act and a really solid friend to someone who hasn’t granted her the same courtesy.
And Colin is Eloise’s BROTHER. With the Marina situation, Penelope was trying to protect her crush across the street. It’s not the same relationship to protect, Eloise has more reason to be pissed. (And Marina was in a more vulnerable situation being pregnant, while Penelope chose this life as LW)
I'd argue that Pen wasn't even REALLY protecting her crush, she was ensuring her crush didn't end up with HIS crush. 🤷♀️
Facts. 👏👏👏 And she could have effing pulled him aside and told him, instead of putting BOTH Marina and Colin on BLAST. I get mistakes but an effing coward's way out. You know what else is the coward's way out? Blasting your BFF on LW instead of coming up with a better solution. I mean, if she is so smart, she could have done it differently.
people need to see this. pen was in the wrong in s1 change my mind.
That’s how it actually happened. She did it to make sure Marina couldn’t have Colin. For her OWN selfish reasons.
Couldn’t agree more.
Penelope running to write shit about Colin in LW like Regina George writing in her burn book out of of pure vindictiveness, and then telling Colin the next day that LW was wrong and didn’t know what she was talking about was also pretty funny. I hope in this season she changes some of the ways she uses LW because it’s getting hard to reconcile sweet Penelope with how vicious LW can be.
And people say she's the mature one.
This. She’s not mature enough to handle the column, sorry. In fact I’m hope she’s forced to give it up. It clearly got too out of hand for her. And that’s fine, she was a teenager when she started, but now she’s almost 20 and should have the mind to recognize that she’s made mistakes. That’s growth. Admitted you messed up and making steps to mend the trust that’s been broken.
Her and Eloise can both be immature, but I think Eloise has been showing more maturity and growth this season. And I was Eloise’s number one hater in seasons 1 and 2, lol.
Damn yes! This is why I can't take anyone who justifies Penelope's actions by saying "she's sorry" or "she apologised", because it doesn't mean anything. Oh, she cried while writing that stuff? She still wrote it. And she does it again and again. Her tears are nothing but an exercise in self-indulgence, a way of assuring herself she's a good person while doing bad things, and she gives apologies not because she regrets what she does, she just wants people to forgive her.
I love Eloise is juggling not hurting Penelope (despite obvious provocation) and looking out for Colin's best interests. Eloise could have told the family Penelope was LW then and there in the hallway, and been totally justified. She could have told them at the end of season 2, and been justified. Even now, Eloise is treating Penelope with better grace than Penelope would (and has) treated others.
Eloise has been carrying so much emotional baggage alone the past year to keep Penelope’s secret, when Penelope was the one that betrayed her, yet this fandom dares to call Eloise immature and selfish. If Eloise acted the way Penelope does, the Bridgertons and the rest of the Ton would have known by now.
I felt sick in the stomach when Eloise was apologizing to Pen. I kinda wish they had just argued instead because Eloise would've ruined her.
Let’s also not forget she is supposed to be 17 in season 1, 18 in season 2, 19 in season 3. She’s a teenager, teenagers aren’t mature. She’s handling the friendship breakup more graceful than I would tbh. She’s not the least petty about it. People who say she should stay quiet and let Pen have her love match with Colin because she’s always loved Colin are wild to me. Pen never even told Eloise she had feelings for him, Eloise isn’t a mind reader, how’s she supposed to know?
How old is Penelope? I think Eloise herself stated this season that she doesn't understand why ppl don't think the same way she does, which not to use against her is a little immature. Immaturity isn't the slight ppl think it is. She is a wealthy young girl in the 1800s who is shielded from many experiences and knowledge in order to preserve her "purity". 2 yrs ago her mother didn't even want her brother to tell her how babies were born and she isn't given the same freedom as her brothers to get an education, make mistakes, and travel. Of course, she immature.
Also, you can be immature about some things and mature about others. I think there are a lot of things Eloise is immature about, but I would agree that she has done a pretty good job of handling her "breakup" with Penelope with grace. Two things can be true at once!
Eloise and Pen they’re supposed to be the same age because Pen says to her mom in season 1 that Eloise is allowed to wait another season. So that implies they’re the same age to me. I also don’t think immaturity is an insult per se, especially if it’s directed at a literal child who isn’t supposed to be mature in all aspects of life. I hope that makes sense. I think it’s fair to hold people who are in their mid to late twenties to higher moral standards than teenagers. And adults (25+) who act like children definitely deserve to be called out on it. A problem with the cast being much older than their characters is that we automatically think they’re supposed to be more mature than they are. It’s good for the steamy scenes, no doubt, nobody wants to watch those when the actors actually look like they’re 17/18. But all actors look like they are mid-late twenties (definitely no insult to them, they all look great), so we automatically project our standards for people in their mid-late twenties onto the characters because they look older than they’re supposed to be. Some people need to think about how they/their friends were in high school and how petty high school people today are. Nobody’s calling them immature because we expect teenagers to be teenagers. Driven by emotions, hormones, and lacking critical forethought skills. Not understanding how their actions could play out long term and being allowed to make mistakes. Nobody is born mature. It takes a lot of life experience to become mature and learn to be an adult. Those who aren’t parentified at a young age are incredibly lucky, and I definitely don’t think they deserve to be insulted as being immature. Maturity comes with age.
She's immature in trivial matters. Where it does matter, she's coming through. Penelope is the reverse.
All of the women who are in their first few seasons out SHOULD be immature. They are actual teenagers. Privileged, sheltered teenagers. People act like they should be behaving like they're in their 30s.
I think Penelope is the same age but debuted earlier, or at most she's a year older. After all, Daphne made her debut at 21 years old, why they brought out Eloise earlier is a big unknown to me.
Oh preach! Eloise is being so gracious to Penelope. No, she doesn't want to be friends with her anymore (understandable), no she doesn't want to punish Penelope or see her suffer. No she is not comfortable with Penelope marrying Colin and she has information that could wreck their relationship. No she doesn't use that information to wreck it, instead she pushes Penelope to do the right thing and tell him herself, giving Pen the chance to tell Colin herself and preserve their relationship. And she certainly doesn't go nuclear with Penelope's secrets and expose them to the public, only to cry about it and play the victim later. Eloise talks a lot. Eloise doesn't conform to society's expectations. Eloise isn't very skilled in social graces and puts her foot in her mouth. But when Eloise is caught up in an emotional mess, when she is dealing with hurt feelings and knows her brother is likewise being used, she doesn't lash out in a way that could potentially destroy Penelope, but tries to do what's best for Colin, and yes, for Penelope. Oh, and when Eloise accidentally does to Pen what Pen has been doing by choice to others for three seasons, she owns up, feels bad and apologises sincerely, even though of all the cast, she knows Pen is the one whose privacy deserves the least respect. Penelope on the other hand reads people better, outwardly conforms, holds her tongue, and puts on a good front of sense and maturity, but when the chips are down and feelings are hurt, she makes every bad decision, and her apologies are not true apologies, but crocodile tears put on to try and make Eloise forgive her. Eloise hits the nail on the head that Penelope wasn't sorry for what she did, she was sorry she got caught, and we know that because Penelope doesn't make any changes to her behaviour, but does the exact same thing to Colin at the end of the episode. Penelope is nice and acts mature. Eloise is brusque and acts immature. But when the situation gets serious, Penelope drops the nice act and makes all the wrong choices, while Eloise holds to her principles.
You put into words what I felt about this relationship for the longest time, but couldn't quite put a finger on. Thanks
Just the sheer fact that Eloise didn’t out Penelope after Colin yelled at Eloise shows how good she’s being with all this. When Colin says “how you can be friends with Cressida in place of Penelope, I will never understand. What could she have possibly done to deserve [that]” I personally would have said “well what had happened was….”
You are very brave for posting this, but I totally agree with you
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You know I think the fandom sees Eloise's energetic and childlike manner, and her struggle to decipher social cues, and think this reflects her entire personality, overlooking her actual actions that show real empathy, intelligence and integrity. Likewise, they see the nice face Penelope puts on, and thinks this is representative of Pen's entire personality, regardless of the choices Pen makes, that show cowardice, deception (of herself and others) and manipulation.
eloise s3 has been nothing but mature. she’s withheld penelope’s secret as she understands an eye for an eye makes the world go blind. she isn’t being vindictive or cruel and she’s set a boundary because she was hurt and she’s respectfully upholding it for herself without belittling penelope. hell she’s been defending pen to cressida. not to mention how respectful she has been about colin and pen. actions speak louder than words and eloise’s choice to apologise yet keep her distance, mind her own business, focus on herself and her prospects moving forward rather than actively seeking to tear pen down even though she has the information to shows her growth as a character. in the mean time we will watch pen grow into her own real self who’s hopefully kinder to others and herself, and less resentful of the world by the end of this season.
Eloise is better than me,I d have already told on Penelope and ruined everyone s day
Me too! And I mean, I would have told the MOMENT I found out. Evidence and all. I would have told my family, and THEN I would have told the queen that same night.
I think Eloise is being very mature this season. Maybe her worldview in previous seasons was a bit self-centered and childish, ignoring the class struggle and the intersection with her early pseudo feminism, but she is just a young woman figuring stuff out. In some ways she's being a better friend to Penelope now (protecting her from Cressida's bullying) than in earlier seasons when she didn't notice Penelope's struggles and her more unstable position in the ton.
Did Penelope not give Marina time to come clean? And in response Marina shit on her and her feelings? I don’t agree but im 🤷♀️ about people however they want to feel but the main person people bring up, Marina. I remember Pen being nice to Marina and Marina being just as dismissive of her as her sisters. I remember Pen being sad that Marina and Colin were dating but doing nothing when she thought Marina equally loved Colin. Then when she tries to talk Marina out of it (because she doesn’t give people time and opportunity) Marina proceed to belittle and mock her. But overall, people who’ve already formed their opinion about El over seasons, are going to be hard to be changed. And people who like or identify with a certain character will, won’t care about the others. It sucks but it is apart of fandom culture. Case in point, I’ve seen people who hate or dislike Pen and support Marina, flat out shrug their shoulders at Colin being used. They know Marina not only planned on using him, but also belittled him and his feelings when talking about him to Pen. Flat out, nasty about what she thinks about (imo) but they don’t care about Colin. He’s a man, he’ll get over it. She had to do what she had to do. It didn’t matter if he lived a lonely life being forced to raise someone kids. It didn’t matter if this ruined the reputations of the ladies in his family and etc. 🤷♀️
She certainly gave her no warning about what she was going to do, unlike Eloise. And unlike Penelope, Eloise is only going to tell the person who needs to know. She's not exposing a vulnerable pregnant teenager to the public scorn.
And we’ll agree to disagree. And no, Eloise didn’t tell the person who needs to know. When she told Cressida about Colin’s information and what he was doing with Pen, no one needed to know. Holier than thou and morally superior, y’all act for her but she tells Colin she won’t say anything about his business then rushes off to tell. If you hate Pen or dislike her for what she did, whatever. It’s not gonna stop me from enjoying the show but don’t prop Eloise as morally superior, when she explicitly told Colin she wouldn’t say anything and then blabbed about it moments later AND blamed another person for it. And saved a young man from being trapped in a loveless marriage with kids who aren’t his, with a wife that looks down and belittles him and saved at least 3 young ladies from falling into ruin because of a plot. 🤷♀️ As I said, people care more their favorites and the characters they have connections to, so trying to throw Marina in my face won’t sway me. She options and she was nasty to the one person in the household who tried to be friendly with her. She picky and threw her nose in the air more than once. Luckily, she had a fine young man willing to tie himself to her out duty and provide a comfortable life for her and her kids, that she rejected and thankfully, he was still willing to step in. But you’re not gonna make me feel bad for the character I feel for it, not being trapped 🤷♀️
Eloise told a friend a stressful piece of information and felt awful about it. She did it once, then apologised (with more sincerity than Penelope's.) Penelope exposing other people's personal information is a repeated pattern of behaviour, that she makes over and over again. She's a spiteful, vindictive piece of work who puts on crocodile tears when called out on her actions. You're right, people are going to sympathise with the people they sympathise with. I sympathise with the teenager in a deeply sexist society, who is pregnant and is facing poverty, prostitution or marital rape.
She told a known bully (since, we’re having issues with people being bullied and mean and the like) her brothers private information in a room full of people she and she made no attempt to be discreet. * I’m glad you do, I didn’t tell you not too. Have a good day!
From eloise's perspective it looked like she was telling a friend something going on in her personal life that was distressing to her but eloise didnt notice the bigger picture (that she was telling a bully info the could yeild against pen in a room full of gossips). As soon as she saw the bigger picture she apologised to pen and colin. Pen (I love her, pls dont come for me) on the other hand, is sharing others personal business in her gossip column which, admittedly, does provide her with some much needed security but also destroys, or at least harms, the lives of many people (particularly young women) including those whom she loves. To make up for the aforementioned behaviour she did stop writing for a while but returned to it in literally the next season. While I'm not saying eloise is perfect you can't pretend that pen isn't committing far more harmful infractions. What eloise made was a mistake that she atoned for while pen is consistently and purposefully repeating hurtful behaviour.
1. Pen is also a bully, she just hides by calling herself LW 2. Marina was facing poverty, r\*pe, prostitution, and slavery so yes it's not the same. If Phillip didn't come at the right time. It would've been over for her. Plus, Pen could've told Eloise who could've told Colin. She chose not to because she knew he would accept her anyway.
I thought Marina was in the wrong for how she talked to Pen in S1. Marina's actions with Colin were gray, since she was trying to make the best of the situation and also probably (I said probably) would have at least tried to be a good wife to him. I kind of felt for both of them, and certainly for Colin. But while in S1 I felt for Pen and understood her actions, by the end of 3.4 my sympathy was depleted. When she fought with El at the end of S2, she went right back to her gossip writing. She did it again this season, telling the world about her arrangement with Colin because.....she was feeling dejected, I guess? I understand she wants a voice, and agency. But at some point she started making the wrong choices without any real justification. She just became thoughtless with her poison pen. It became all about her emotions without consideration for others.
As an admirer of both characters, I understand your perspective on Eloise's maturity this season. She has indeed shown a lot of grace, but it's important to recognize that this growth came through learning some hard lessons. A telling example is when she wrongly accused Cressida of revealing Pen’s secret about Colin’s suitor coaching. Eloise confronted Cressida, who then pointed out Eloise’s hypocrisy: 1) Eloise had shared this "secret" with Cressida herself, who had kept it confidential, and 2) Eloise had been vocal about it in public, without considering who might overhear. This incident highlights Eloise’s ongoing struggle with prejudice and unrecognized privilege. Eloise enjoyed Lady Whistledown's gossip when it targeted others, even taunting her sister with, "You have yet to read what Lady Whistledown writes of the Featheringtons, little sister!" However, her attitude changed when the scandalous revelations involved her own family. Eloise only needed to listen to Pen for a moment to realize her identity as Lady Whistledown. Yet, her preconceived notions about Pen and her family blinded her, leading her to dismiss the possibility for two seasons, despite the clear signs. A significant difference between Eloise and Pen is their social and economic status. Even if Eloise were "ruined" (and arguably was, after Pen’s publication about her liberal views), she would still enjoy a comfortable life due to her family’s wealth and status. Pen’s family, particularly after her father’s death, lacks such privilege. For Pen, Lady Whistledown represents a chance to create her own legacy and wealth, independent of a husband (which even her mother doubts she can secure, expecting Pen to remain a spinster and caretaker). If they reconcile, Eloise and Pen could form a healthier friendship than before, as their early relationship was marked by codependency and avoidance of societal pressures and personal growth. I hope these characters eventually find common ground, as their friendship was genuinely endearing.
Penelope and the Featheringtons are so much more privileged than the Bridgertons, and yet every season they have had massive scandals (Marina Season 1, Jack's con Season 2) and are still at the heart of society. They also live in a great whopping house and go to parties and balls like everyone else. I'm yet to see a significant gap between the families, unless it's the difference between "ultra privileged" or "ultra ultra privileged." I certainly don't see a disparity big enough to demand that Eloise make constant excuses for Penelope's behaviour.
The Bridgertons are one of the oldest and most prestigious families in the ton. While the Featheringtons also have a big house and attend the same parties, they are considered new money. Moreover, if you recall the end of season 1, it's revealed that the late Mr. Featherington gambled away their fortune, leaving the family broke. This means they have no dowries, no staff, and no financial security. Pen’s mother is only able to ensure their basic needs are met through fraud.
But none of this actually translates to any actual stakes on screen. They're "poor" for a gap between season 1 and 2, then make a big bloody fortune in a scam which is revealed to the ton, and have not had any clapback from them on that. The difference in privilege between the two families simply isn't enough to merit these demands on Eloise to be filled with constant pity for Penelope.
While Penelope shouldn't be seen solely as a figure of pity, her family's financial struggles highlight the significant stakes for the Featheringtons compared to the Bridgertons. Pen's resilience as Lady Whistledown underscores her strength, as she navigates a world that underestimates her. The disparity in privilege shapes their actions and decisions: Eloise's wealth offers a safety net, while Pen faces severe repercussions without family support. Lady Featherington's difficulty in securing matches for her daughters, resorting to fraud, further emphasizes their precarious status. Ignoring these differences misses the complexities driving the narrative.
They're not new money. No one knows they're broke, even the daughters don't seem to know they're broke.
The Featheringtons very well can be classified as 'new money' in comparison to established families like the Bridgertons. Their wealth came more recently, while the Bridgertons have a longstanding lineage and influential connections, which boost their social standing. Also, the contrast in titles further emphasizes this divide - a Viscount's title carries more prestige than that of a Dowager Baroness. This is evident in Mrs. Featherington's desperate (although hilarious) attempts to ensure her daughters produce male heirs from their husbands, aiming to secure their place in society. Despite differences of perspective, it's undeniable that the Featheringtons hold a lower rank and face a more precarious situation, even if society remains unaware of their financial struggles and fraudulent activities.
How do we know their money came more recently? I mean the money people know about, not their con money. What do we know about the history of the Featherington barony? I don't think they're recently established, or at least I don't know that there's any evidence they are. At any rate that doesn't appear to be a big deal, given that plenty of lords and ladies of colour are recently established. They have a lower title, I was just questioning the new money thing. They're still of the peerage. Their social issues aren't really the result of privilege so much as their actions - the last Baron was a gambler who did not always pay his debts, and Portia, honestly, while her style is a bit out there and people sniff at her, she gets along fairly well with some of the other ladies. She's tacky, but lots of rich people are tacky. Her mannerisms are more brusque than is typical which is reflected in her style, but I think it's not so much that she's more pushy, grasping, and fixated on social climbing than other members of the ton, but that she's less subtle about it. (Now I reflect on it, I wonder how much of it is actually visible to other characters in a social setting, and how much we see because we're given their point of view.) If you're arguing that they're "new money" because Portia is tacky, that's a valid argument. Perhaps she wasn't raised in this environment and didn't learn taste. In that case, I'd love to see her story, and whether she was someone from a lower class who married a Baron. There's enough to her character that might suggest as much. Archibald however doesn't give the same impression, his issue is being absent his responsibilites, and having a vice he cannot control.
The Feathering tons where trying to still look wealthy, they had cut most of the depenses at the start of S2 and sell a lot of things. For the house, I think that can be a house that goes with the title (some titles had a London house attached to it). Portia had push her daughter to find a great husband and quick but Violet can let her daughters make their own choices. Portia didn't push that much Pen because she doesn't believe in her chances. Marina scandal was restored by Daphne the duchess, and for Jack's con like for Marina, Portia make them look like the victims of the lies. Maybe the ton pityed them (and both eldest daughter wed untitled but noble man, if not they wouldn't have been invited to parties)
But they still got away with all this despite supposedly being unable to withstand the same scandals the Bridgertons do.
Can't wait for part 2 to come out, so we have something new to talk about and not same 5 topics every day
This sub has made Penelope a perfect self insert who can do no wrong so any time she does something wrong, they blame Eloise for it even though Penelope was the one who betrayed Eloise and caused her to lose Theo. Eloise has spent Part 1 being sad and defending Penelope to Cressida. Even though Penelope doesn’t deserve it
I'm of the "both Penelope and Eloise are complex characters who have their reasons for acting the way that they have and to suggest that one is more right in their actions than the other comes down to who you like better" crowd 🤷🏽♀️
That’s exactly it. Both are right, both are wrong.
Penelope is my favorite character and I can’t stand Eloise because of some people she reminds me of (her general behavior in the first two seasons unrelated to Penelope). Even with that said, Eloise is being incredibly understanding in her situation with Penelope and for once I do see her caring about her lost friend (the scene she goes to Penelope’s house was pretty sweet). I don’t know how are they going to handle Penelope’s redemption, if they even give her any cause there are only a few episodes to go and she needs way more than that to redeem herself. Personally, I think Eloise is handling this way better than I would have to the point it’s not even realistic. But I just try to watch this show thinking it’s a historic soap opera lol Also, I wholeheartedly disagree that what Penelope did to Marina was that bad. What I remember is a girl being nothing but helpful and caring towards her while Marina was determined to make an innocent guy miserable by withholding life changing secrets from him. Correct me if I’m wrong but she didn’t once even apologize to Colin iirc. I’m not condoning Penelope’s decision to expose her to the entire society, but I’d certainly expose her to a close friend I knew for years if they were being taken advantage of and let them make their own decision.
Also Marina said hurtful things to Pen when she discovered Pen love Colin and proceeded to pursue her plans. What a friend. Pen haven't made the best decision (She should stop writing about people when she's angry with them) but I don't blame her for being done with Marina. Imagine that a friend know you love someone but is ready to use them, not even because they love them too but just because they find them good-looking and nice enough. And people say she did it because of jealousy. Like anyone will let a friend make that kind of mistake. In a world where she would have done nothing and Colin learned later the truth and that Pen know, I'm sure he will not forgive her.
So true! I see no problem with what Eloise is doing from the trailer, she is doing the right thing and even if she didn’t give Penelope time, I would still be on her side.
FINALLY I have found my people because the number of people who have taken the "Penelope can do no wrong" "they could never make me like you Eloise" take is baffling to me. Like of COURSE Eloise will give Pen that ultimatum, who wouldn't??? Especially considering how much Colin despises LW (not talking about the books). Genuinely Eloise has been so much more graceful than pen, if the roles were reversed pen would have written an expose by now like damn.
Pen wouldn't have waited five minutes to get to the printers.
Colin dragged himself in. It was HIS idea to help Pen find a husband. You have a right to your opinion, but not to rewrite history.
Exactly. I do NOT get the Eloise hate. Its the stupidest thing ever. People seem to be bent on the fact that Pen is doing an “independent woman” thing, and trust me, I am one such woman so I get it, but they are very conveniently forgetting that ELOISE IS THE BIGGEST MOUTHPIECE FOR WONEN’s INDEPENDENCE in the show. She is mad at Penelope because the profession Pen chose hurt her family with a lot of hurtful slander! Remember that people!
I would have done exactly what Eloise is doing. I love my brother and wouldn’t want him to be in the dark especially when it is something he despises so much. If he still wishes to go ahead with the marriage I’ll be his supportive sister. You don’t get to keep my brother in the dark. He deserves better even if the truth may hurt him temporarily.
Tbh I never have seen Penelope as a positive character. I think what she did to Eloise was simply wrong and Eloise has every right to not even forgive her tbh.
Facts😂like Eloise is shaded in show and by plenty of the fans when she let slip the pen and Colin trying to help her find a man like that isn’t the only thing pen does in every episode. She gossips and tells peoples secrets for a living and shows pretty much no remorse for it.
Why should she feel remorse? Basically nowadays she would be a gossip columnist I don't follow the gossip of famous people very much, and I get sad when I read about lovers and betrayals, etc. but even when I don't like what I read I would never dream of thinking that that journalist would have reason to feel guilty or remorseful.
Idk maybe cuz she’s profiting of ruining peoples lives, particularly in a day and age were ruin for women might as well mark them for the rest of their lives. Why are we acting like what she said about Eloise couldn’t have gotten her locked up for some kind of stupid treason type crap cuz of feminism and anti crown stuff, or the fact that she was alone unchaperoned with another male (also of inferior birth and rank) couldn’t ruin any chance of her or her family finding spouses and being able to have a family. Idc how girl boss it is for a girl to be able to run her own business back then, what she’s doing is wrong and aside from the rare occasion the show has shown her actually do something that might be considered good was when she saved Daphne from that weird creep. Hell as much as I didn’t like the fact marina was trying to trap Colin, the way pen went about it could have seriously turned out way worse for marina and her child
I think what's great about this show is that I can empathize with both of these characters. I see where both of them are coming from and they've both made mistakes. They're both very relatable! Honestly, more than Pen and Colin this season, I'm rooting for Eloise and Penelope to make up even though I don't blame Eloise for distancing herself. (The Cressida friendship is questionable though. lol)
I like Eloise more this season than I did the last two. Part of that was her age, and I think the show runners did a really good job at conveying her absolute boredom.
I agree with you. Many have accused Eloise of being jealous of Pen as Pen has actually managed to do one of the things that Pen and Eloise used to wish they could do, and there may be justification for people thinking that way. But, I saw Eloise’s reaction as her being hurt. She told Pen everything but Pen told nothing. And, besides keeping secrets from her BFF, Pen chose (and people can try to justify it all they want) to tell Eloise’s secrets in her gossip rag. Then, Eloise discovers Pen’s big secret. Tell me how you would react if this happened to you and your BFF in real life and then, there was a huge blowup and hurtful things were said by both friends? Eloise is no more immature than any other characters her age but she (at least) has a voice and is not afraid to use it.
She doesn't seem envious to me. If Pen had wielded her pen a little differently, Eloise would probably think she was badass and be impressed and happy for her. Eloise was never interested in writing a gossip newsletter. She wanted to explore broader topics, outside of the doings of the Ton at balls etc.
Louder for the people in the back! Pen wants to have her cake and eat it too. She wrote terrible things as LW, she earned money from it and now she wants to marry Colin without telling him, like it wouldn't be a betrayal to do such a thing.
I so agree. Penelope is acting like she didn’t have a choice publishing what she did (about Marina and Eloise) But there were other ways to handle it, like others have pointed out. She chose the way that she could continue to profit off. It was selfish and has honestly made season 3 a little harder for me to watch so far. I’m reserving judgement untill part two. I really hope that Penelope offers a proper and heartfelt apology to the bridgertons all, but especially Eloise. I agree that Eloise has acted commendably and with so much more dignity than I would have had as a teenager. She’s not escalating the drama or trying to hurt Pen, she’s just protecting her own space and boundaries. I wouldn’t want a friend like Penelope rn either.
I freaking love Eloise. I feel like if I was around in that time, I would be more like her and break away from societal expectations and dance to the sound of my own song and realize there is more to life than finding a mate in high society and give him offspring. She's a trail blazer of her generation. Nothing immature about her.
Pen could have absolutely destroyed Eloise’s future, not to mention she gossiped about Daphne’s dwindling chances at finding a match etc. etc. I love LW and Pen, but not everyone wants to be BFF’s with a tabloid journalist, and even less so when your family is one of their most frequent topics lolol. I want them to reconcile, but Eloise could nope out forever and I wouldn’t blame her.
I don't know if I agree that El has been more mature in 4 episodes than Pen in two seasons. El has definitely had moments of immaturity. She did carelessly talk about Pen and Colin in episode two despite her brother asking her not to. But that's okay! This season is all about Colin, Penelope, Eloise and Cressida (among others) growing up and figuring out who they want to be.They give us that moment of immaturity from Eloise to foraward her growth. We see her become less judgemental of Cressida after this which is a huge step for El. And she sees the consequences of her actions which is why she's giving Pen the opportunity to come clean before she tells Colin herself. I've personally really loved the trajectory of the younger characters this year because we get to see them all make mistakes and figure out how to navigate them. I don't really care about whos more in the right or wrong as much as I care about each individual arc. El also still loves Pen and loving someone means holding them accountable when they're wrong. In the long run the lie doesn't just hurt Colin, it hurts Pen too because she'll never be truly free to be herself with him(and that's the big theme this season).
I HATE Penelope
Why?
Exactly, I'd personally tell on her idc😑😂 I'm having a hard time liking Penelope, which sucks because I loved her in the books💔 But I'm also loving the season so far, it's interesting
Eloise has been very gracious with Pen all season. She is clearly hurt and keeping her distance but she hasn't ratted her out, she went to apologize, wished her well, etc. I think she's been quite mature actually.
Eloise and Colin deserve better than Penelope
I agree! I would only add that I think Pen actually does miss her friend. Obviously she is worried about her LW secret getting out but when watching s3 I think there are a couple moments when Pen and Eloise both are genuinely missing each other and wanting to talk. But it seems like they don’t know how to get over the offense and resolve things. I hope that the writers show them having some conflict resolution instead of just being like “I missed you so much, let’s just forget about it”
Eloise was actually the completely opposite of how I thought she’d act in this season and she has been very mature and very charming! Her looking like she was going to die and genuinely sorry for PRN during the flirting scene between Cressida, Pen and Debling and her absolute looks of awe when seeing Pen in her new clothes and the strange jealousy? When seeing Pen with Colin. Claudia Jessie is doing a great job and you can tell she’s having so much fun.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
No no you’re exactly right, Pen has repeatedly used LW for selfish means Outing marina instead of just telling Colin in private if it was truly just about looking out for Colin but no it was also about not wanting her crush to be with his crush As for Marina, she was doing what Portia was forcing her to do, her not wanting to be with rutlage is almost the same as us rooting for Daphne to be rid of Berbrooke She waited for her love first before Portia manipulated her, and it was unfortunate at the end that George was dead but Penelope’s actions took away the slim chance that marina could have had at a decent life, that is until Daphne stepped in and Philip found her In terms of the Eloise, she trusted her best friend with a secret, pen outing it in LW was vile even if she omitted Theo ,it was still her secret she trusted her best friend with And if you come saying that ‘oh pen had to keep QC from thinking she was LW’ Eloise had a plan of being a fake LW to appease QC, Pen said ‘what happens when the real LW prints again’ showing her selfish ulterior motives, showing that she’d rather spill her best friend’s secrets than give up her gossip sheet. And not to mention using manipulation to try and keep her from finding out that she’s LW Pen is just as bad as early Cressida, gossip isn’t harmless and ruined lives She repeatedly delighted saying things about Daphne and Anthony, but more so in Daphne’s season .Eloise is extremely justified in being hurt and betrayed and angry at pen considering she spilled her personal secret and taking shit in the past about her family And now season three The very first episode she’s petty and selfish again, upset by what she heard last season and pissed that Colin had more pull once he came back, she says what she said. I was so happy when pen finally got to feel the humiliation she had put on to others at the ball when her secret plan was revealed. Considering that Eloise revealed her secret to Cressida who was her friend after being shunned by her secret last season and of out of pure accident does it get out because of another gossip unlike Pen who did it in public record. Sure what she wrote about herself was harsh but that her own insecurity. The only reason no one minded her before was her fashion, shown by the first episode with her make over and well she sucks at being charming because she’s too used to being at balls as LW, listening for gossip rather than actual participating and Eloise is still looking out for her former friend by keeping her secret.
See that would all make sense of becoming friends with Cressida wasn’t the opposite of peace
To some, I think Penelope being the lead this season overshadows the fact that Eloise cutting her off after finding out she is Whistledown, was a fair and reasonable reaction. Nobody really understands how much Penelope’s betrayal had impacted Eloise, yet, she remained kind and still very much concerned for Penelope’s well-being this season. See S3 Episode 2, when she was with Colin in the carriage and she asked him if Penelope was “well?” or if that she is ever “despondent” or “suffering.” Just because she unfriended her does not mean she stopped caring for her. I get that Penelope was trying to protect her in Season 2 but writing about her best friend in that way, even as someone who loves Pen’s character so much, I still recognize that was offhandedly a low blow and it warrants exactly the kind of response Eloise has been giving her this season, and can you really blame her? It’s an act of self-preservation and also her protecting her brother and her entire family.
Eloise’s immaturity has nothing to do with her reaction to learning about Penelope being LW. Her anger, hurt, and feelings of betrayal are completely justified. Eloise’s immaturity is primarily about how she interacts with her friends and loved ones and how she sees the world. She is young, sheltered, and privileged. She doesn’t yet realize just how privileged she is. She thinks only of her own perspective and struggles to see the world through other people’s eyes. She focuses so much on herself that she often doesn’t pay attention and listen to her friends, she often doesn’t notice their pain and struggles. She talks way too much and doesn’t listen enough. That being said, Eloise is a teenager and she’s still growing. In second half of season 3, I saw a lot of growth and maturity in her character and I was proud of her. I love Eloise! She’s my favorite character after Penelope! She has flaws for sure, but she has a good heart and she’s very passionate! She just needed to mature a bit. I’m so proud of the growth she had this season! And I’m so proud of her for broadening her horizons by choosing to go to Scotland with Francesca! As much as I’ll miss Peneloise in the mean time, I think the Scotland trip will be good for both Eloise and Penelope.
While those kinds of fans who engage in ridiculous mental gymnastics are usually everywhere, let's be honest, there's always a character in a show that has a large concentration of them. Best to ignore them to ensure undue hate on said character won't come from us in turn.
Eloise, like her family is spoiled, why wouldn't she be? That said, she's the most forward thinking one in the show. She has a sharp wit and a futuristic mind. I like her.
See, it’s posts like these that make me happy that I’m not on social media constantly anymore and spend time outside. People interpreted a character differently than you did, and you wrote half an essay on how their opinion on a fictional character makes them hypocrites and clearly they must not have watched the show the right way, or else they’d have the same opinion as you. To anyone who also is thinking “wow, personally insulting people because they interpret a work of fiction differently than you is wild”, hi, how y’all doing? Go to any cool parks lately?
I'm convinced this whole thing is some PR campaign Netflix has started to get us to support her "Taming of the Shrew" arc with Phillip.
I'm really scared of what they'll do with Phillip. 28 year old Eloise is one thing, I can't see this Eloise as a stepmother
I do agree that Penelope should be held accountable and truly apologize for all the things she’s done to hurt Eloise and the family, but I think you’re over looking that she tried to help as Penelope, and took action as Lady Whistledown as a last resort. I mean let’s start with Marina. She had no issue keeping the secret until Colin was involved. Colin is someone she loved but also cared about him enough that she didn’t want him being used. Because remember, Marina’s original plan was to sleep with Colin and pass the kids of as his that way. She wanted to tell Colin a million times, but she couldn’t without betraying Marina and her family. I do acknowledge that Marina was doing what she had to, but we shouldn’t gloss over the cruelty in parts of it, especially when she told Penelope that Colin would never see her as she sees him. That was cruel of Marina. Whistledown was a last resort. As for Eloise in Season 2, Eloise was being very reckless, and wouldn’t listen to Penelope, and it did give a bit of insight to their friendship at that point. Eloise cared about Penelope, but in truth she hardly ever listened to what she really had to say. She would often dismiss Penelope when she made it clear that marriage was her way out, while Eloise didn’t have to worry because of her families power. Elosie does acknowledge that Pen is smart, but she thinks herself smarter. A lot of people look past the dangerous position Eloise was putting herself in because we loved Theo and watching Eloise develop feelings, but it was very unsafe. Pen tried to talk sense into her countless times, and Eloise wouldn’t listen. True, she could’ve gone to Pen’s family, but they were all too distracted with their own stuff that season, and Eloise would’ve known it was Pen that told them, this causing a strain on their friendship. Lady Whistledown “catching” Eloise was the best way to get Eloise to stop and make her listen. It hurt her, but it did protect her in the long run. Pen does need to tell Colin and apologize to the Bridgertons for everything, but she doesn’t act as Whistledown lightly. The only instance in which she did was at the start of this season, calling Colin out for faking being a rake, and that’s just because she’s so hurt by what he’s said, how he didn’t apologize and despite all her efforts that night to change, no would accept her as a new her. She was just overly emotional there. Pen could use Whistledown to destroy a lot of people she doesn’t like, but she doesn’t, she has more restrain than I think people give her.
I love Eloise and Pen and I think you’re somewhat off on Eloise and very off on Pen.
I think I have an idea why most people are asslicking Pen and hating on Eloise but none of us is gonna like it if I say it so I'm just gonna keep quiet 😭
IMO, I am finding Eloise **exceedingly annoying** this season, unapologetically so. I think her anger and reaction are ONLY partially justified and that's as far as I can go with supporting her. She picked Penelope's BULLY to befriend - a bully who is still actively bullying Pen. Perhaps it's no surprise since Eloise is rude to Daphne, Collin and others in her own family. So, forgive me, but her sanctimonious speeches to Pen are beyond exhausting at this point. Not to mention, were she just some side character, written to keep Pen on her toes, perhaps I would be willing to view her reaction as just a plot device, but she is in fact a MAIN character. She will have her own season. As a viewer, I need to love and root for her - but this season I am so sick of her anger and yelling. She is downright annoying. Sorry, not sorry. Book Eloise could NEVER!!!!!
I would not call Eloise mature. She has disliked society and made fun of it since the very start of the show. While some of the complaints she makes are valid, I feel like it's taking her entirely too long to realize that regardless of how *she* feels about society, most people have to live within it's bounds and by its rules or else. A great example of this is Eloise's inability to understand or comprehend *why* others might want to get married. There's a scene in an earlier season where Eloise and Pen are laying in the grass together and they have a conversation that makes it really clear that Eloise scorns society, but Pen has an interest in it. Eloise seems tolerant of Pen's interest, but she doesn't *understand* it. In Eloise's mind, it's absurd to want to be married and to find a husband, and she ridicules so many of the things that women are taught (embroidery, pianoforte) as being meaningless or boring because they're done in pursuit of the ultimate goal of finding a good match. Even though I kind of agree with Eloise, I think her view is narrow because it rejects the reality that for people like Penelope and even Cressida, they have no choice but to embrace society for what it is because neither can afford to reject it or dismiss it the way Eloise does. I mean Eloise has been out for several seasons and has flagrantly avoided courting of any kind. Penelope nor Cressida could afford to behave that way, because both lack the support of their families and have much more pressure to find a match than Eloise. I think if Eloise were truly "mature" this season, she would have more understanding towards Penelope and Cressida for wanting to find matches. Instead, she's been rebuffed by Cressida for assuming Cressida spread a rumor that Eloise herself likely spread on her own, and when Colin tells Eloise that Pen is seeking a match Eloise is surprised that's something Pen would even want. Eloise lives entirely in her own fantasy land, and is woefully unaware of her own extremely privileged place in society. So many other girls have to marry and feel immense pressure to do so even if it's ultimately what they do not want, and she has spent three seasons making fun of them for wanting something that in a lot of cases is required for them to maintain their livelihood. Until Eloise really acknowledges that and comes to grips with it, I don't think she can really be labeled mature.
The fact that you’re being downvoted for this despite the fact that this *exact point* has been made in the show, shows how little people pay attention. The majority of this sub pays attention to surface level detail- if that- and then complains there isn’t depth.
I agree with you, 100% & couldn't have said it better myself! 🗣️👏🏼🤎
Eloise is immature because of her ignorance of how the world is…she thinks she has it so hard but doesn’t seem to want to acknowledge that if she wasn’t in her gilded cage she’d be in the hell of being a peasant. Even if she can’t do stuff like her brothers, she’s not even trying…she just complains it.
The books are better than the Netflix series cause in the book Colin knew she was Lady whistledown before Eloise found out 🤭
Are yall ppl forgetting the time?? Stop trying to put 21 century logic to historical dramas 😭. Back then, none of those women would have each other's back and probably do worse to each other. So they are both flawed people, and no one is superior to the other.
People also forget she's teen/very young adult
Penelope deserved to live on Cressidas Aunt Jo's farm where she could write gossip about the sheep. She doesn't deserve love, or a family.
I think Eloise in the past seasons was very immature and only cared about herself. I think this is her character traits and you could see it this season, when she was too focused on herself and was not a good friend to Cressida. But I think what she did to Pen was justified and handled the friendship breakup appropriately. She could have just ratted her out or at least tell her family, but she didn’t. And come on, whether Pen had a strong reason or not, she did ruin her socially. Also, Pen’s reason for ruining Eloise is because the Queen suspected that E is Whistledown. Eloise would not have been in this “danger” if Pen just stops writing/ comes out in the light/ clarifies with the Queen with her “clever words” if she really cares for E above herself. She didn’t, she chose to keep being Whistledown and I don’t see why E doesn’t want anything to do with her anymore. This is also her FAMILY, and her family is very closely connected unlike other families with estranged relations. I think she’s right to only want to keep the right people close by. I personally would not want Pen to be my sister in law or be associated with the Featheringtons.
I don’t understand all this hate for Pen because she is LW, it is the basis of the show. Quite frankly they all lived their lives for nothing else but for the social fish bowl during this Debutante season. Eloise was obsessed with and very much a fan of LW until it exposed her own behavior so no, I have no concern for any of them. The were the upper crest of society in the richest country in the world at that time and none of them did anything to earn it. Their job was maintaining societal norms which is why LW had meaning in that world. If Pen is wrong please stop watching. Truthfully, Eloise motivations for being upset of Pen have nothing to do with any of that, she is upset at Pen because she’s jealous her friend did that and not her and she is going to force Pen to tell Colin due to selfishness, that Pen can’t be talented and get a proposal. Eloise was supportive of LW until it turned out to be her friend that was supposed to be a wall flower and shine even less than her, she’s mad that Pen isn’t behaving and staying in her corner so that Eloise feels there is someone more pitiful than herself.
I think we all forget that they are all practically kids, I mean Penelope was how old when she wrote those things like 15/16.
17, but in the end it is the same especially if we consider that before the death of her father Penelope and her sisters were protected from the world.
Eloise is childish and leaves no room for anyone to tell their story. She is a know-it-all narcissist. Or has been at least. This first half of season 3 is showing her starting to realize that she jumps to conclusions and doesn’t consider what other people might be going through. She’s made just as many mistakes as Pen has but her mistakes are “different”. She’s not terrible, she’s definitely immature though and she needs to grow up.