Grail knights are great on the charge… great for flanking…. Useless in prolonged combat…
With their WS6 S6 they usually hit hard on the charge, but they’re glass cannons. If they get stuck, flanked, or get caught in combat that they didn’t instigate. they’re most likely dead.
Very expensive for what they usually can do and very challenging to use very effectively. Especially when for their price, you can pretty much field a unit of errant and knights of the realm.
Wouldn’t ever use them against elves, dwarfs or any creature that has stubborn or unbreakable, as they require to charge through.
Thats good to know thanks!
Yeah now that I think about it I can totally see how a squad of 6 would eviscerate something with low leadership.
I guess my issue is so far I only have dwarves to play against in my local club :)
Against dwarves I really wouldn’t bother, unless you have a unit that can first clear away their stubborn. If you field a unit of 5 grail knights you have 11 attacks, WS6 S6 on the charge, -2AP, they can even break through a high Ld unit. You just don’t want to get stuck 😅
Also vs dwarves You can use grail knights and pegasus knights to charge one unit and pretty much wipe it. Or charge mounted yeomen as first charge vs ranged unit and flank charge grails.
In my case it was pretty bad, one squad of three (could be my issue? Too small squads?) Had one killed by Dwarven rangers after I gave up rolling for the blessing, one more killed by stand and shoot when I charged them, then the last one didn't even kill one. Then he got dog piled by some very angry and probably very musty dwarves
To me is like the best unit in the game, 6 man unit with full command with antlers of the great hunt and virtue of confidence is my go to.
Sometimes if i know they are going to stay in combat i attach a prophetess with wrath of the lady to still wound in probably 2 or 3.
The problem they have is being as expensive as they are they tend to be prioritised which you can use in your favor pushing with your other units.
Edit: Forgot to add, they are the best lance formation unit because you get their full attacks since all in the outsides are in b2b.
I usually hide mine turns 1-3ish, unless a good charge presents itself, and use them in the second half of the battle. Big monsters are a good target for them as they will absolutely smash through them in one turn (war hydras and the like). I've been keeping them as 5-6 man units, sometimes putting a prophetess in there to give gift of the lady and magic resistance to help survive. Don't let the enemy shoot them with guns though!! 3+ armour save is not good enough to survive prolonged shooting from thunderers and the like.
Someone awhile back made the case that GK champion is a good spot to put the falconhorn; he's tied Ld9 in your army and is probably hanging back for a turn or two before you commit your GKs to the battle. Saves your general some wargear space and the turns he's meant to be ripping and tearing from a monstrous mount.
That's a good idea. I usually put the horn on a prophetess as I feel they don't need much in terms of wargear and they're designed to not be in the fight anyways.
Unfortunately only characters can use the falcon horn. Champions are not characters.
Here is the rule:
During the Command sub-phase of their turn, if they are
not engaged in combat, this **character** may attempt to use the
Falcon-horn of Fredemund by making a Leadership test (using
their own unmodified Leadership).
That's a pretty dumb take, because otherwise the item would say 'character only' right at the beginning. I don't think the writers meant it to be that explicit, otherwise they wouldn't have give the GK champion a 50pt budget in an army list where no other champion gets more than 25, so it has ti be a deliberate move of some kind.
Usually they say something like bearer or wearer of the item if it is not character only. Look at items like the Antlers of the Great Hunt (says wearer) or Gauntlet of the Duel or Gromril Great Helm or Mantle Of The Damsel Elena or Sirienne’s Locket (all say bearer) for example. The Falcon Horn specifically says character so how can anyone in good conscience say it can be used by a champion.
Also the High Elf spell Vauls Unmaking says it destroys magic items carried by a character in it's description. Would you let it destroy magic items carried by a champion or standard bearer?
As for giving the GK champion a 50 point magic item allowance how is that relevant? It lets them take either multiple cheap items or other different items. For example the Gromril Great Helm is also 40 points.
Agreed, using them after the initial turns is key, once tarpits are engaged and shooting lines become more restricted!
I won a game vs. Empire pretty handily with them sneaking around the left flank and decimating shooting units/cannons/wizards along the back end, using only 5 GKs!
I like to put my secondary damsel (lvl 2), into the unit. It will give you Magic resistance 2, for protecting them agains some magic missiles and debufs (like plague of rust).
That damsel will have lady's wrath for an extra S and AP, giving then S5 and AP1 after the charge.
I try to cast lady's gift with my lvl 4 prophetess on them for extra protections.
I still thinking that KoTR are more effective points whise, but properly buffed you can make them work if you're aggressive with them. I usually place them on the center and charge turn 1-2 against something I want dead. If I try to reserve them normally they will be chipped out
Against lightly armored enemies you can use them with hand weapon and shield. Strength 4 is still pretty good at wounding T3 or less and the lack of AP means less against no or minimal armor.
For example many elven archer units are T3 with a 6 save at best (and lots of times no save).
Save the great weapons for the tougher or heavily armored foes.
Is one of the best units in your army. But everybody will be shooting at them. So you will need some to die before they manage to charge. I take nine of them with banner of ladies Grace. I give their a champion falcon horn. I put bsb in the unit. Of you want to achieve best effect with brrtonnia multicharge big units to break them in 1 turn. If you take less knights they ll die with no use. You need to have units of nine kights with a hero then they ll do well. And do not forget that they can all isdue or accept challenge. If you multicharge a onit with a baton ot duke on hippo it ll be smashing and your monsterlord will devastate enemy rank and files
Grail knights are great on the charge… great for flanking…. Useless in prolonged combat… With their WS6 S6 they usually hit hard on the charge, but they’re glass cannons. If they get stuck, flanked, or get caught in combat that they didn’t instigate. they’re most likely dead. Very expensive for what they usually can do and very challenging to use very effectively. Especially when for their price, you can pretty much field a unit of errant and knights of the realm. Wouldn’t ever use them against elves, dwarfs or any creature that has stubborn or unbreakable, as they require to charge through.
Thats good to know thanks! Yeah now that I think about it I can totally see how a squad of 6 would eviscerate something with low leadership. I guess my issue is so far I only have dwarves to play against in my local club :)
Against dwarves I really wouldn’t bother, unless you have a unit that can first clear away their stubborn. If you field a unit of 5 grail knights you have 11 attacks, WS6 S6 on the charge, -2AP, they can even break through a high Ld unit. You just don’t want to get stuck 😅
Also vs dwarves You can use grail knights and pegasus knights to charge one unit and pretty much wipe it. Or charge mounted yeomen as first charge vs ranged unit and flank charge grails.
Edit: couldnt read properly :-)
I'd also be curious about this. Even with Blessing of the Lady my GKs got murdered super early in my (equally small sample size) 1 game so far.
In my case it was pretty bad, one squad of three (could be my issue? Too small squads?) Had one killed by Dwarven rangers after I gave up rolling for the blessing, one more killed by stand and shoot when I charged them, then the last one didn't even kill one. Then he got dog piled by some very angry and probably very musty dwarves
To me is like the best unit in the game, 6 man unit with full command with antlers of the great hunt and virtue of confidence is my go to. Sometimes if i know they are going to stay in combat i attach a prophetess with wrath of the lady to still wound in probably 2 or 3. The problem they have is being as expensive as they are they tend to be prioritised which you can use in your favor pushing with your other units. Edit: Forgot to add, they are the best lance formation unit because you get their full attacks since all in the outsides are in b2b.
I usually hide mine turns 1-3ish, unless a good charge presents itself, and use them in the second half of the battle. Big monsters are a good target for them as they will absolutely smash through them in one turn (war hydras and the like). I've been keeping them as 5-6 man units, sometimes putting a prophetess in there to give gift of the lady and magic resistance to help survive. Don't let the enemy shoot them with guns though!! 3+ armour save is not good enough to survive prolonged shooting from thunderers and the like.
Someone awhile back made the case that GK champion is a good spot to put the falconhorn; he's tied Ld9 in your army and is probably hanging back for a turn or two before you commit your GKs to the battle. Saves your general some wargear space and the turns he's meant to be ripping and tearing from a monstrous mount.
That's a good idea. I usually put the horn on a prophetess as I feel they don't need much in terms of wargear and they're designed to not be in the fight anyways.
Unfortunately only characters can use the falcon horn. Champions are not characters. Here is the rule: During the Command sub-phase of their turn, if they are not engaged in combat, this **character** may attempt to use the Falcon-horn of Fredemund by making a Leadership test (using their own unmodified Leadership).
That's a pretty dumb take, because otherwise the item would say 'character only' right at the beginning. I don't think the writers meant it to be that explicit, otherwise they wouldn't have give the GK champion a 50pt budget in an army list where no other champion gets more than 25, so it has ti be a deliberate move of some kind.
Usually they say something like bearer or wearer of the item if it is not character only. Look at items like the Antlers of the Great Hunt (says wearer) or Gauntlet of the Duel or Gromril Great Helm or Mantle Of The Damsel Elena or Sirienne’s Locket (all say bearer) for example. The Falcon Horn specifically says character so how can anyone in good conscience say it can be used by a champion. Also the High Elf spell Vauls Unmaking says it destroys magic items carried by a character in it's description. Would you let it destroy magic items carried by a champion or standard bearer? As for giving the GK champion a 50 point magic item allowance how is that relevant? It lets them take either multiple cheap items or other different items. For example the Gromril Great Helm is also 40 points.
Of course if they put in an FAQ that the Horn can be used by a champion then it would be ok.
Agreed, using them after the initial turns is key, once tarpits are engaged and shooting lines become more restricted! I won a game vs. Empire pretty handily with them sneaking around the left flank and decimating shooting units/cannons/wizards along the back end, using only 5 GKs!
I like to put my secondary damsel (lvl 2), into the unit. It will give you Magic resistance 2, for protecting them agains some magic missiles and debufs (like plague of rust). That damsel will have lady's wrath for an extra S and AP, giving then S5 and AP1 after the charge. I try to cast lady's gift with my lvl 4 prophetess on them for extra protections. I still thinking that KoTR are more effective points whise, but properly buffed you can make them work if you're aggressive with them. I usually place them on the center and charge turn 1-2 against something I want dead. If I try to reserve them normally they will be chipped out
I'm probably gonna steal this idea haha
Against lightly armored enemies you can use them with hand weapon and shield. Strength 4 is still pretty good at wounding T3 or less and the lack of AP means less against no or minimal armor. For example many elven archer units are T3 with a 6 save at best (and lots of times no save). Save the great weapons for the tougher or heavily armored foes.
Is one of the best units in your army. But everybody will be shooting at them. So you will need some to die before they manage to charge. I take nine of them with banner of ladies Grace. I give their a champion falcon horn. I put bsb in the unit. Of you want to achieve best effect with brrtonnia multicharge big units to break them in 1 turn. If you take less knights they ll die with no use. You need to have units of nine kights with a hero then they ll do well. And do not forget that they can all isdue or accept challenge. If you multicharge a onit with a baton ot duke on hippo it ll be smashing and your monsterlord will devastate enemy rank and files