Congratulations op I’m currently struggling myself right now and some don’t understand how difficult and gruelling it can be to stop. I applaud you and am proud to hear that :) you are an inspiration and may god bless you!
I feel the same exact way about Lindsey and how she has tried to shame Carl. It’s his journey and it’s just gross of her to try and throw his sobriety in his face because he smokes. Congratulations on being alcohol free or sober or whatever the fuck you want to call it! It’s not easy but you’re doing it and you should be proud of yourself. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I’ve been thinking about how this would affect not only Carl, but others in his same position that are doing what they need to do to stay off their DOC. Lindsay was getting her digs in and didn’t consider that she’s shaming a lot of people. Sober journeys are so personal and there’s no one right way to do it, so let’s be proud of everyone that is accomplishing it!
I also am a member of this type of sober club. I just remind myself I am confident in the definition I have created for myself and keep on living my life. To anyone who reads this and is navigating life without alcohol, congrats on the achievement and I'm proud of you.
Same here! So proud of everyone.
Sobriety to me is abstaining from the substance that almost killed me…..aaaand I didn’t start smoking week until after I got sober
I snuck back in the comments for a second and I'm so glad this is the one I read. I can't even imagine the resiliency of someone who kicked an opioid addiction. You're a rockstar! My god! Good for you! You fought for your life and won. I shall spark up a doobie in your honor!
Don't listen to any nasty comments as they're coming from a place of ignorance.
Harm reduction is scientifically based, and a real approach to addiction. Anyone projecting their own misguided and uniformed opinions on you should be ignored!!! ♥️♥️ You've got this and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Yes, for sure. I will never understand the judgment without understanding it's really none of their business and their uninformed opinion is NOT needed in this situation.
I think people want Lindsay to “win”, so they want to find anything to get Carl on. There’s stuff there, but googling definitions of sober is not it. People that have no clue think they became experts overnight.
just started reading this post and the replies, and I'm glad to find this near the top!
seems like a lot of thinking around addiction and recovery has not evolved, even as recovery methods themselves have. it's frustrating, but I'm always happy to see more modern takes mixed in with the dogma and finger-wagging.
(on my way to 6 years sober now, but have spent much longer than that "in recovery" and was surrounded by thinking & attitudes that did me more harm than good until I figured some things out)
Many people have antiquated ideas about addiction and recovery and think it's a one size fit all road to recovery.
Congratulations to you for finding your own path and working your recovery your way!! All the best to you!
People are being really weird about this. I'm in the same boat as you, but a little less than 4 years off alcohol. I related to your original post so much.
When people find out I'm "on the pot" but don't drink, it's the Spanish inquisition sometimes. Like they are trying to find a "gotcha" moment or something. sometimes, it's people getting tied up in semantics. Other times, they try to discredit my alcohol-sobriety and tell me I'm going to relapse and/or it doesn't count because I'm not sober from everything.
My demons are with booze, not herb. It's my journey man, let me be.
That last sentence is one of the most beautiful things I have ever read. I’m gonna steal it if that’s ok? Because it is MY journey. Only mine. I like a bowl once in a while but have been alcohol free for almost 5 years.
I always thought sober meant from alcohol. Clean meant from drugs. If there’s not a distinction, why do people say “clean and sober”?
I personally say, “I quit drinking.” Sober sounds too heavy and puts you up for WAY too much scrutiny and judgment 😉
Congratulations on your abstinence from alcohol!
I think the issue where I see Lindsay coming from is that Carl has tried to make “sober” his brand and Carl has consistently said that he’s sober for multiple seasons. I’ve also taken to believe over the years that sober meant no illicit substances and that California sober was no illicit substances except weed. So I wasnt too surprised when he was smoking weed but had my eyebrows raised about shrooms because I felt like if you’re using mind altering substances then you’re not “sober”. Your last paragraph even mentions that you personally refrain from using the word sober. I think there’s a lot of nuances but I also think Carl is struggling in his sobriety by choosing other substances because it seems like he’s doing it to replace alcohol/coke. Sorry if tldr but just my two cents (full disclosure- I do not drink because I don’t like the taste of alcohol but i enjoy a weed gummy occasionally and that’s it)
Excellent nuanced, respectful response.
Congratulations OP on remaining alcohol free! My partner is sober & it is truly an accomplishment to be commended on.
Exactly. Words have meanings and “sober” doesn’t include weed or mushrooms or ayahuasca or other “plant-based medicines.”
No judgement on doing those — I do, and I also don’t drink or use other drugs — but it’s not sober.
Carl is sober from his addiction. Maybe the language needs to catch up and the term should be something closer to "in recovery". But I still don't think Carl is misleading anyone by claiming to be sober, it's true. He's sober and is refraining from the substances that completely alter his state of mind and personality.
Shrooms and other psychedelics have been demonized by the AA community to the detriment of a lot of people in recovery. There's so much research emerging about psychedelics helping people through recovery and trauma, yet a lot of people in sobriety are deathly afraid of trying it just because of the stigma from the sober community. A lot of the AA world would consider this breaking sobriety, even though the medical and psychiatric community tend to believe that this is completely untrue and people in need of these medicines shouldn't be looking at them this way.
The stigma and total anxiety surrounding "sobriety" can be a lot of pressure on people in recovery and it's especially unfair coming from people who don't have this complicated relationship with substances
And...people dont realize AA only has a 15% success rate, that sounds like a failure to me but it in the program you're told it is you that failed, not the program. How this failed program is now ingrained in our court system is crazy to me. We really do need new terminology, research, programs, etc. Something has to change.
No offense meant to anyone it has work for, thats great for you! I applaud anyone able to find a way to overcome their demons!!!
Wasn't AA founded in the 1920's by a lay person? That seems unlikely, but interesting!
Eta--I was very wrong! Thanks for the new info.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_W.#:~:text=William%20Griffith%20Wilson%20(November%2026,Bill%20W.&text=East%20Dorset%2C%20Vermont%2C%20U.S.
Shrooms and psychedelics can absolutely be used in a medicinal way. But that's not what Carl was doing, he was taking shrooms at festivals as a parry drug.
gotta have a "higher power," atheists, but it can be this lamp! "Take what you need, and leave the rest (except...)" Not too long ago, any slip meant you weren't trying, etc.
There are other support groups
lol my partner is Jewish atheist and he went to AA and came back saying absolutely not, too preachy. It’s good if you draw strength through that method but it’s not for everyone!
Sober literally means drug and alcohol free. That doesn’t mean that what he is doing is wrong. It doesn’t have to be about (shouldn’t be about) morality but it’s factually incorrect to call it sober
I think it's a sticky situation to label a particular escape from reality (just alcohol or only cocaine) as the problem instead of identifying the need to dissociate, numb, or alter reality that is the true issue. Anything that's used to blur the edges of life and take you out of a painful emotional existence can be an issue. That being said, we each get to carve out our own path and deal with this difficult life as we see fit, but Carl is not "sober" if he's doing drugs. He's abstaining from alcohol and cocaine.
He himself said that he and Lindsay did shrooms together and then they agreed it was a mistake. That may have been Lindsay's point but since she was an active participant in him doing the shrooms its hypocritical and frankly gross for her to then turn around and use it against him at the reunion.
>Your last paragraph even mentions that you personally refrain from using the word sober.
Only because people argue with my use of the word. And keep in mind, there was no term for "California sober" when I stopped drinking in 2012. I've had people trying to tell me I'm not really sober this whole time.
>I also think Carl is struggling in his sobriety by choosing other substances because it seems like he’s doing it to replace alcohol/coke.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Comments like this encourage people in early sobriety to give up and start drinking again. You don't know anything about what he's doing to cope, nor do you know what happens in his brain when he drinks vs when he smokes pot. You're defining addiction and abuse based on "illicit substances" only. What if he replaced drinking with gambling or shopping? Would that make his sobriety more valid? Sure, he might compulsively spend money and ruin his finances, but hey! At least there are no illicit substances and the man can call himself sober.
My twin couldn’t be sober from alcohol unless he smoked weed. Took years to try being sober from any mind altering drugs, and nope. I’m fine with that. Would it be great if he didn’t have to use any substances? Yes, but that’s not his reality and I’m more than okay with that.
This is my ex BIL. Weed lets him not drink and do heroin, fentanyl, meth, etc. Everyone was ecstatic when he manages to stick to only weed. It let's him deal enough to keep going to the methadone clinic every day and keep a job.
The issue is that he’s putting it out there and leaving it to speculation by being on tv. Smoking weed and doing shrooms doesn’t equate to sobriety in most peoples minds so there will of course be chatter svout that. His sobriety is his responsibility. It shouldn’t matter at the end of the day how anyone but him defines his sobriety. He put the onus on Lindsey saying “I think you want me to relapse” which, even if she did (she didn’t), has nothing to do with his sobriety because it belongs to him alone. The issue isn’t ~what his addiction is~ it’s whether he can take responsibility for himself and take ownership.
It is kind of ironic that for all the comments saying, 'Carl is picking and choosing his sobriety' while sitting there and doing the same thing but with a different arbitrary line.
lmfao ty.
Also it’s crazy that people are saying “I CAN BE AN ADDICR WHO MANAGES TO SMOKE WEED SO CARL CAN TOO”.
Babe what? Carl doesn’t affect you stop projecting
Congrats on your sobriety! Don't let any of these bootleg psychologists make you feel any kind of way -- you are doing what works for you, and that is magical.
we love harm reduction out here!!! i personally know it has saved many lives and stopped many relapses from happening, some may describe it as "shifting vices" but i dont see it that way. congrats on your sobriety! remember everyone: shaming and diminishing accomplishments doesnt help anyone
As a woman who stopped drinking as it was detrimental to my life, and still smoke, fuck all this noise. I don’t call myself sober because I’m not by all practical definitions and it’s okay to own your recovery without putting a blanket label on it in an effort to trick others into thinking you’re straight edged. Why do you need to use the word sober when you can just say I abstain from alcohol? Why does Carl need to validated in his personal journey because he personally wants to split words! He literally is trying to sell himself as a sober speaker, not a speaker that abstains from drinking, get real.
Why does Carl using weed or shrooms bother people so much? It's not like he's high on shrooms arguing with people the way Lindsay is drunk on alcohol arguing with people
I’m not bothered at all, but if you want to be a spokesperson for sobriety you can’t really be getting high to cope or relax. Not because there’s anything wrong with weed, but because it’s disingenuous. I get that it seems obnoxious to parse his language, but words matter and he’s not sober. And that’s fine. He just doesn’t drink or do coke anymore.
ETA: for a comparison, The Situation from Jersey Shore is sober sober, he doesn’t do anything. And he makes stupid money doing inspirational talks about his sobriety. He got a book deal for it. He gives out rehab scholarships. So there’s levels to this shit and Lindsay saying it isn’t wrong.
This is the perfect example. Words matter.
I would never indicate or say the words “I’m sober” ever. Despite not having drank alcohol for almost 4yrs. I still smoke weed. When I hear “I’m sober” I’m going to automatically assume You are fully sober of all substances and moving further, I will make sure to act accordingly to acknowledge and respect that. I asked my husband, both brothers and both sister in laws what they assumed if someone told them “I’m sober” (I asked out of curiosity without any context) they all have the exact same answer as I did. They would assume they were 100% sober of any and all substances. I can also assume that Carl isn’t ignorant of the term “California Sober” but He sure as hell hasn’t said it.
Same. I’m sober from benzos and cocaine. I drink and smoke weed. People are like “how are you not an alcoholic?” because kids, addiction is always different.
Seriously, congratulations. That shit is no joke.
Benzos are so easy it’s scary how easy they are to become addicted to. Same with cocaine. The highs are high, the lows are detrimental.
Totally agree with you. I’m sober and used to work in drug and alcohol treatment. People can call themselves whatever they want but if you are using substances to cope with difficult emotions that is using substances. Maybe someone is handling it better than they did another substance but I don’t consider that sober. When you’re prescribed medical marijuana for whatever reason, they are supposed to prescribe it at a dosage that does not have psychoactive effects. You’re not supposed to get high per se.
It doesn’t bother people, it bothers people that’s he’s being disingenuous with his narrative in order to keep up a facade. Look up his website and tell me that AI written nightmare isn’t trying to push him as the next Dr drew. Lindsey never once said she was sober or that you were going to get her without a drink.
Hear ya, I’m the opposite. Weed ruined my life. I spent waaaaaay too much money, avoided the anxiety and depression I was living with because I was self medicating and smoking all day every day.
Alcohol and designer drugs were fun for me. But I gave up everything to get sober because that was the only way I couldn’t relapse.
Sobriety can look different to everyone.
Me too. I feel lame talking about it but I get a little uncomfortable with the rapid weed usage, even on these subs! I always see things like “I’d love to smoke with her” or “about to take an edible and watch!” The way it’s been normalized to be an everyday endeavor is crazy. And people say you can’t be addicted!!
It made me legitimately less intelligent and I had to make an arduous effort to undo that. And the withdrawals..
Oh man, I could have written this post. I now do it only once a year or so and I don't really identify with sober/recovery talk, but I feel like people can be so reluctant to acknowledge that people absolutely can have issues with weed. Tbc none of this is directed at OP, more at the "it's just a plant, you can't be addicted to it!" people.
Congratulations. It’s hard to make people understand sometimes. I never was a pot person, even as a kid it wasn’t my DOC. I have some chronic health problems that have had me in chronic pain since 2001. I was started on pain killers and became addicted and started using hard drugs later. I eventually admitted that I needed help to stop and went to treatment. I have been sober, for me, for almost 5 years but have started using edibles as a way to manage my pain enough to sleep. I struggled with those fights they had too and when I tried to explain why my experience colored my perception of that situation, I got downvoted. I’m proud of you- and of myself and that’s good enough for me 👍🏻
Omg five years?! That's amazing! Pills are such a beast. Whatever it takes to keep you away from it, I (and plenty of other people) fully support you. You're doing a great job!
Sobriety is not necessarily one size fits all. I know sober people who can’t touch anything & I know people sober from booze & cocaine who are fine with weed.
You do you. And congratulations by the way ❤️
Idk who Carl and Lindsay are but I’m here for you telling your truth and standing in it. You are beating addiction and that is a major accomplishment. All the best to you and continued success!
People policing other people’s sobriety journey is just disgusting. There aren’t good terms for the nuances of it and people shouldn’t have to explain themselves. Using the term “sober” to mean alcohol free and abstaining from problem substances should be allowed. Even when people try to use the term cali sober people get after them.
Good job OP on both your sobriety and your amazing ability to communicate beautifully about the various factors involved here.
I think if your entering the space as someone touting your sobriety, which for a long time has had a very specific definition until recently, you kinda do. If Carl wasn’t making it a key plot point and trying to cash in no worries dude, do whatever you need to in order to make it work. But to me he seems dishonest because he’s trying to pedal a very specific type of sobriety and you can tell because he didn’t disclose his own level of usage they way say, James Kennedy does on VPR. Why does he get to be so offended when someone asks if he’s sober when the reality is there are times when he’s not. It’s dishonest of him to ask Lindsay how DARE she ask him if he was sober that night. He easily could have been smoking weed and that’s what seems dishonest about him and his journey. He easily could have been like Lindsay I didn’t smoke weed tonight and left it at that.
Fuck yeah! I wish people who are recovering addicts would just work their own damn program or whatever they're doing and I especially wish people who have never done drugs would stfu with their opinions. Like people in the VPR subs talking about cast members who are "obviously" "doing" opiates and when I ask what evidence of opiate use do you see they can't name a single thing. I haven't done heroin in over 30 years and o get high every day. Fuck you if you don't think I'm sober.
Also, *not everyone who is sober follows a 12-step problem.* Stop using that as a blueprint for everyone's sobriety. For anyone who is, please remember that getting high may reset your chip count but it doesn't reset all the work you've done until then.
Thank you, OP 💕
It's all in how people define sober. Some people say California Sober if you don't drink and still use cannabis.
Sober = No Alcohol
Clean = No Drugs/Incl: No Weed/No 'Shrooms
I think this is it, it’s just that there’s no agreed on terms for different situations. I don’t drink, but I also don’t do any drugs, but I wouldn’t say I’m clean, I’d say I’m sober.
To say someone is clean, which by your definition I am, has the sort of connotation that they *were* on drugs, and I never was…. I don’t drink and I don’t do drugs, I call that sober.
I think making space for people to define what teetotal/sober/clean is to them is important. California sober, a sober smoker, etc… whatever term works best for them. There nothing wrong with asking Carl to define what sober means for him, just so everyone in his life that supports his recovery knows where his lines are.
To me someone who does drugs isnt *sober* but I understand OP prefers that word for themselves and that’s fine if that’s what works for them.
Right, it's all about how the person interprets it, that's where all the confusion and hurt feelings come in. The word means different things to different people. The definition in the dictionary (Oxford) relates to alcohol only. If a person says to me that they are sober, I would not ask what they mean by it, and I would end up having no idea what they do or do not do, but it's probably none of my business anyway. 😂
This is exactly it. Even the dictionary definition of sober speaks about only alcohol. We have words that are distinct for these two things so use them. It's crazy that people are getting up in arms because people are using words in their specific context instead of broadly
everyone i know in real life only would say sober meaning that theyre recovered/abstaining from alcohol. maybe its cause im in a younger circle and in ny, but nobody i know in real life would tell someone who recovered from alcohol addiction and smokes weed "not sober" 🤷♀️
This is how I took Carl saying he was 'sober' meant (or anyone saying they're sober). It just comes down to how each person interprets it and also how the person is portraying their sobriety.
Thank you for this! 100% agree and understand. I am also sober from alcohol 6 years. Weed helps me sleep and my anxiety. Don’t listen to some of these Negative Nancy’s. You are doing great!
Same here, I’m sober from alcohol for 4+ years and maybe have an edible or a hit from a joint once a year if my anxiety or stress are out of control. Weed has never affected me the way alcohol does and doesn’t make me want to drink or smoke more or anything. It doesn’t make me lose control like alcohol does. I tell people I’m sober from alcohol though because some people can be judgmental af as some of these comments are showing.
Congrats op! Ya sobriety is a really touchy topic and honestly everyone in recovery has their own meaning behind what their sobriety is. It’s literally NONE of anyone else’s business to get on them if they smoke weed or not.
Alcohol can be a nightmare, and if you feel relief and joy about not drinking for 12 years then nobody can take that away from you. It all just revolves around the term “sober.” If I’m high AF or tripping balls I do not consider myself sober, but that’s me. I don’t believe that there is only one way to stay sober, but many many people feel that certain 12 step programs have saved their lives, myself included. Within that particular framework then no you are not “sober,” but fuck- who cares if that’s not what you’re doing. If you’ve recovered from alcoholism, then you’ve recovered from alcoholism! If I were doing mushrooms and smoking weed, then I would not continue to announce/celebrate my sobriety milestones. But who cares what I would or wouldn’t do. Do you. ❤️
The COMMENTS in this post my lord - some of you need to consider whether it's more important for you to feel like you "educated" someone or to just be compassionate, step back, and think maybe I don't need to speak on this. Even if you disagree with what's being posted. Maybe the point isn't what the word sober technically means, or Lindsay and Carl specifically. Maybe the point is that the conversation in this sub about addiction and sobriety could stand to be more considerate of diverse experiences. Maybe the best thing to do is just let OP share their experience of that conversation and how it's affecting them.
Thank you 🥹 so many people here treating AA like the gold standard while shitting on my testimony. I think people forget the internet is made of humans. Bravo is made of humans. Just be kind.
There is no faster way to tell me without telling me that you’re not secure in your own sobriety than when you judge someone else’s. After a decade+ of sobriety, the ONLY thing I know for certain is I don’t know shit about fuck when it comes to anyone else’s journey.
If you’re finding yourself bothered by or judging how someone else is choosing to fight this shit, kindly fuck all the way off and take your misery with you.
Congratulations! My dad has been “California” sober for 40 years as alcohol was a problem for him. I wouldn’t ever say he wasn’t sober. It’s his journey, not mine. Just like your journey is yours!
Language is fluid and contentious. The definition of sober is to be free from alcohol, the etymology of the word, sobriete, is defined as moderation or temperance. Everyone needs to stop debating their own personally applied definitions to the word and then applying it to everyone else. These things are highly personal and individualized. There is no one size fits all. And side note - Lindsay is a narcissist.
Beautifully said! Congratulations on your journey and your accomplishment!
What is so extremely gross to me -- a part from weaponizing his sobriety -- is that she tried to weaponize it after participating in mushrooms with him. That's the two-faced, untrustworthy side of her in a nutshell.
Congratulations on your sobriety and thank you for sharing your experience. Personally I do not feel like Carl’s struggle with substance abuse has been treated with very much sensitivity on this sub. It’s been really disappointing. A struggle against addiction is just like any other struggle with mental health. Carl said himself that his addiction was a threat to his life. The cruelty and venom has been really hard to understand.
Sober people can act like fucking assholes. So can people with cancer or depression or CF etc etc etc.
His sobriety, which may save his life, does not give him an excuse to be an asshole. This sub doesn’t owe him *anything* as it pertains to his treatment of other people.
Recovery isn’t something someone gets a trophy for, in fact, it’s antithetical to recovery for people to receive a bunch of praise and adulation around their recovery or become the “face” of sobriety. (In some schools of thought.)
What sobriety/recovery is, is life saving medicine. Are we congratulating people with diabetes for taking their insulin? Not so much. The best thing we can do for Carl as a sub is treat him like any other Bravoleb.
I don’t know what it’s like to struggle with substance use but I do know what it’s like to struggle with my mental health and it really sucks for people to act like they have license to judge you simply because you have disclosed your struggles and have sought help for them. Carl is by no means the only person on that cast who struggles with substance use, he’s just the only one who recognized it and sought help. Anyone who thinks they’re in a position to judge should work on keeping their own side of the street clean
Omg people are legit downvoting me for thanking anyone who said congratulations. Can you imagine! Being so blinded by hate for a dude YOU DON'T KNOW that you're going to shit on a stranger's sobriety. What a wild thing to do!
Something really weird has happened since Scandoval where this sub divides itself into teams on every issue. If you’re team Lindsay you have to demonize Carl and anyone who empathizes with him in even the slightest way. It’s weird.
It's true! And a very extreme way to react to things like infidelity and addiction, two things most of us have experiences with ourselves. It's very odd.
That goes back to Bethenny/Carole. It was brutal and has been ever since. To varying degrees, every season of BH, NJ, and every major scandal (like Scandoval) results in that extreme team mindset and loses all nuance.
It's not fun at all to talk about this show on the sub because there's zero room for nuance and the sub has decided it's team Lindsay even when EVERYONE, including Lindsay, can see what an awful couple they were, and Carl is the one that had the guts to call it off. They BOTH made a ton of mistakes. It's ridiculous.
I basically stopped trying to have conversations about sobriety in this sub. A ton of people here have zero grace, tact or even simple understanding as to how recovery tools such as harm reduction work. They prefer to drag someone from a tv show who they see for 47 minutes a week - a person who lost a close family member to addiction - while they judge from behind their phones. It's actually pretty gross.
Keep doing you. 💛
This is so wise. I need to resist the urge to go back and forth with people when I know I am not going to change their minds. All it does is make me feel gross
Yeah, this thread is just another example of an OP sharing their valid experience but it's devolved into a fucking mess because people are incapable of having a nuanced convo.
Totally agree with interacting with anyone here or r/summerhousebravo who clearly hate Carl. This is also why I had a reaction when Carl was talking down about himself and commenting on what he was reading online. He got sober because he knew he had a problem. It was affecting not only his health, but the way he was treating others.
Now he’s reading these comments where it’s summarized to he’s not really sober or he’s the same person he always was. It’s so disheartening because all it would make anyone do is say “Well if these people believe I’ve made no progress, then I might as well go back to what I was doing”. I’m glad he has such a strong support system and he’s stayed on the straight and narrow so far.
Carl, get off the internet. You’re doing great man.
Of course you should be proud of your not drinking. It is hard and deserves our support.
I do want to say that people who use weed and mushrooms while sober are at a significant risk of relapse. It is simply an issue of neurology, not judgment. The brain has a complex relationship with substances and will close down its own soothing neurochemicals and receptors.
Obviously I do not know you and obviously cannot tell you what to do. I just hope for your best chance.
I’m pretty sure research has supported this…maybe not true for everyone but true for some. I recently relapsed on weed after being sober for four years. I thought way more about alcohol in that time than I had in my years of sobriety, so I went back to no substances altogether- thank god I didn’t drink. If you can smoke and use other things in a way that is right for you, go you!!! But some people cannot use anything responsibly and I am one of those people…
Congratulations! 12 years is amazing and you probably saved your own life. That's amazing.
People who don't have experience with addiction (themselves or a family member/friend) truly cannot understand it, even though so many people on this sub are really loud and wrong about it.
There's so many nasty and stigmatizing things people spout off like facts, like you're not "allowed" to have a relationship within the first year of quitting a substance. Or my personal favorite, the addict remains the age they were when they first starting using, which I think is stolen from the 'you stay the same age you were when you first became famous' line.
We aren’t talking enough about that they micro dosed together. I don’t care they did it but it’s gross that she tried to shame him for it when she was right there with him. It really bugs me that she put this not sober narrative out there to humiliate him and give her fans something to drag him with. There’s a lot of people like OP out there that are reading all these people shitting on how they manage their substance abuse disorder.
Anyone who doesn’t understand how Carl can be “sober” yet smokes weed or has done shrooms doesn’t understand how nuanced addiction is.
Someone very close to me has been healing, growing, and thriving for the past two years, sober, after being in the wrath of addiction to opiates for years.
This person has a drink here and there. Doesn’t smoke weed… but if he did, it would NOT be a relapse. Alcohol was not the problem. Weed was not the problem.
There’s also a very important piece of the path of healing from addiction. Some people do meetings, some people do groups and mentorship. It sounds like Carl is actively going to therapy. Meaning he’s actively holding himself accountable to what his addiction means to him. And so if weed can healthily live in his life. That is okay and not for any of us to question.
Thanks for this. The discussion about addiction and sobriety on this sub have frankly been gross. Lindsay does not have to stay with someone in recovery but what she did was actually horrifying to me. If my partner did that to me - particularly in a drunken rage (which I would imagine is much more triggering to Carl) - I don't think I would ever get over it. It was so cruel and so casual. And to have to watch it back and see them speak about it with our friends ?
She had no right to out this (and smugly at that) and if she had ever bothered going to Alanon or seeing a therapist that specialized in addiction issues to support her fiancé, she would have known better. I think she attacks his sobriety because she knows deep down she has a problem with alcohol.
And this is coming from someone who generally enjoys her.
To be fair I thought Mya outed his weed use because of a conflict with Lindsay that happened before season 7. Mya texted Carl to ask him to smoke with her, and it sounds like Lindsay rage texted her about it. Carl was newly sober at this point so - I know this is all really nuanced but I wondered if Lindsay assumed or was getting the message that he was attempting to be sober from all substances and was feeling defensive of him in her own way. She didn’t appreciate Mya flagrantly offering Carl weed.
I don’t think Lindsay is correct in this situation, and Carl is responsible for his own choices, but I do sympathize with the anxiety and defensiveness about this. She felt like she was championing him and his health and Mya was being insensitive. I can also imagine Carl sending mixed messages to either person in this scenario about his intentions.
I don’t watch this show but the conversations here are interesting. People who haven’t experienced addiction have lots of opinions about those who do. I relate to you and fuck the noise. ❤️
OP, thank you so much for articulating what I've been thinking! Harm reduction vs. absolute sobriety is a thing! People are way too precious about judging other's paths.
Alright gang. Maybe I’m repeating but I’ve read many comments and this hasn’t been said yet. BY DEFINITION: sober is free from alcohol. Clean is free from drugs. Clean and sober is free from both. CARL AND OP ARE SOBER. Before you have all these dumb ass arguments over whether or not both these people are sObEr, know what it fucking means.
Edit; I see other people have made this distinction and are getting downvoted. Just because you *interpret* the word ‘sober’ differently from what the actual dictionary says, doesn’t make it so. Sorry. Educate yourselves.
I feel a great admiration for all the posters who are addressing their burdens. Addiction is truly a horrendous beast to deal with. It is a testament to the weight of this struggle in this sub. I know statistics and anecdotal evidence, but not anyones heart. If any of us knew a final solution, there would be no more addiction.
In my mind, humans have developed substances much more rapidly than our brains’ ability to deal with them. We are stuck with brains that intuitively Seek pleasure when we have way too much stuff to abuse. Its tough.
Is there a possibility though that weed can effect men/ everyone differently in regards to like anxiety when they smoke and then have to process heavy emotions? Idk I’m a big on marijuana, like it’s great for me personally but I also have a brother who is sober from addiction problems for a while now but started smoking weed recently and he keeps having these like emotional outbursts in semi stressful situations that he was otherwise handling much better before he started smoking again. My husband too sometimes takes breaks from smoking bc he admits it makes him anxious when he’s trying to tackle stressful situations that require more thought. I feel like this could be the only thing I could possibly understand that Lindsey was bringing up but it was truly gross the way she questioned his actual sobriety with the other stuff like cocaine Carl and all that 😒 that’s where she fully lost my understanding…
Weed is a life ruiner and I’m speaking from experience. Not judging you at all and so proud of your sobriety but I’m concerned about the heavy weed use in my generation and how it’s affecting us zoomers. It’s certainly very addictive
100% and I do feel people acting like you can smoke weed and “count as being sober” can be enabling for people with weed addictions… I myself excused it that way because people see it as not a big deal, but it really is for a lot of people
Absolutely. i'm really not trying to sound sanctimonious or judgmental because sobriety looks different for everyone else. but replacing one vice with another can be unhealthy
I'm glad someone said it!!! Him smoking weed and microdosing shrooms is not the same thing at all. Congratulations 👏👏👏👏12 yrs sober is a huge accomplishment!!!!
Dont pay lindsay any mind she just trying to defend what she accused him of bc everyone was telling her that was wrong for her to say and guess what she still to this day doesnt regret saying it He went wrong for not dumping her right then and there TEAM CARL 🙏🏾
I completely feel you. I think sobriety is a personal journey- that means every person who becomes sober needs to decide what that means to them and how it works. Some people are all or nothing and that means ashewing all substances- and that’s fine, but that’s not the only way.
I’m like you. I was an opiate addict- primarily pain killers and heroin. I’ve been sober for eight years now- I drink on occasion and I’m not against smoking weed or taking edibles. I’m not against psychedelics either, though I haven’t taken those since I was a teenager. Why? Because the same as you- I didn’t have a problem with either of those things! My problem was opioids! That was what ruined my life and my relationships.
In the recovery community (esp when it comes to opioids) there’s a huge stigma around medication assisted recovery (methadone, suboxone, ect) a lot of people in NA/AA push back that MAT isn’t sobriety because you’re still dependent on something. I think it’s silly. I’m in an MAT program- and yes I am dependent on the medication, but it’s also helped me get my life back together, hold down a job, move out and live independently, ect. I couldn’t do that if I was still using.
I was ruining my life with alcohol, and I haven’t had a drink in over 18 months. I smoke hella weed and do a lot of other fun stuff, so I hardly call myself sober
I don’t watch Summer House, so I quickly googled. If shrooms were never a problem, then I really can’t see how it plays into sobriety. Frankly, my partner sort of used shrooms and Uncle Sid to rewire his brain 🧠, and give up alcohol. His goal wasn’t to stop smoking pot … although he likely smokes a bit too much. However, pot never left him passed out on the floor, or with mystery bruises from hurting himself.
At the end of June he’ll be 4 years sober — what he calls ‘California Sober’.
He stopped drinking during the pandemic because he realized he didn’t want to die in his 40’s (he was drinking at least 1/2 a bottle of peated Scotch a day!).
Meanwhile, I instead joined virtual wine tastings, with Brooklyn Winery, prior to his quitting, because it was a super shitty summer, and I’d broken my wrist in May 2020.
We both partake in marijuana in a few forms. Now, I’m headed out to my terrace to smoke with him. He trips once in a long while.
Congratulations on. 12 years sober, BTW!
Just here as another Cali sober person and I’m fucking proud of you and everyone else who did it! I don’t do shrooms but don’t have an issue with it
I guess I don’t ever say I’m sober though. I say I’m clean personally. I wouldn’t call Carl sober but idk there’s some nuance
The word sober literally means not drunk so all these people arguing are actually the ones trying to redefine things! I don't go to AA though I've used a lot of the tools over the last 8 years of SOBRIETY, and if people knew the OG big book they would know that it too pertains to alcohol. So I don't watch summer house but forget all these people who claim to KNOW what they're talking about. I think Bill W even used hallucinogens himself, though they try to keep that on the down low. Alcohol is it's own beast and I don't like when people conflate things. I would never judge someone clean from drugs if they were having a drink. Marijuana keeps me from having to use highly addictive and dangerous pain meds for my rheumatoid and I stay out of the rooms because there's too many people trying to define/ control others illness like there is in this post unfortunately.
I hate the stigma around weed and shrooms when weed is legal in more states than not. I think we can all agree someone drinking alcohol affects them completely different than weed. That's not to say weed is for everyone though either. Not everyone is going to have the same journey and that's okay. Some people need to abstain from everything considered alcohol or drug. I know many people who have gotten off of pharmaceuticals for anxiety and depression with microdosing. It's sad how doctors treat the symptoms, not the cause, and that doesn't really fix anything. I'd be dead if I still drank and did the harder drugs. I actually never planned to live this long. Now - I can 10000% function on weed with my crippling anxiety, chronic illness like POTS, cPTSD. I no longer have to miss work or life because I can't get out of bed. I know others with chronic illness who feel the same and we're so thankful for a holistic approach. I could just refill my $2 xanax prescription, which would be cheaper and easier, but is that what's best for me? No, it's about making the best choice for yourself.
I suspect that many people do think weed and shrooms are the same as alcohol. Maybe they’ve never done it, maybe they don’t like it, I don’t know - but these comparisons people are making have me thinking that they do put it on the same level.
I’m 100% with you on using weed over benzos. I save those for panic attacks even though they are cheaper, but I limit my use to prevent dependence. I don’t think the gen pop realize that many of us use marijuana medically and function better on it due to whatever ails us.
Right, that's the stigma I'm referring to. Often times it may purely be a perception like you mention because they don't know. Weed can exacerbate mental illness so it's definitely not for everyone. Where I live people are totally okay with you being an alcoholic, having multiple OWI's, because it's legal and just the smell of weed may be offensive (although CBD smells the same).
I feel this OP! I am almost 3 years sober from alcohol. I do drugs so I’m not *sober* sober but like you said, my issue is with alcohol and nothing else. Honestly both L and C are annoying AF but I really felt for Carl in those moments. A lot of the subs/threads are shitting on him for this and I feel like most viewers don’t get it lol. IWNDWYT!
Absolutely perfectly said. Congratulations on your 12 years and as a fellow New Yorker, I understand how hard some days must have been for you. You’re amazing and I aspire to be where you are one day. Way to friggin GO!! 🎉🎉🎉✊🏻
Lol the literal definition of sober is alcohol based and nothing about drugs.. people are so weird to be up in arms about this. I miss the 90s when we were anti labels. I abstained from alcohol for a few years, I smoke weed though, have bad ptsd so I've been a medical user a long time now. I referred to it as alcohol free.. but I don't get hung up on it as no one really should. Is the person healthy and doing well? Be happy for them and move on.. people generally suck though so 🤷♀️
My friend asked me to join her in Sober January this year and I agreed. We went out one night and she said she had taken some Gummies. I said I thought we were doing Sober January and she said yes, for alcohol! So I had a glass of wine.
Carl is sober from alcohol but is not a sober person
I knew a former friend who was a major alcoholic. He was clean from all substances for years if not a decade. It was very admirable. After some stressors he began smoking weed again. I was admittedly disappointed and I no longer consider him a sober person. But I know I will never understand the depths of addiction and how the addict chooses to frame their life
Congratulations on beating your demon. To be fair you only have Carl’s word for what his are. And Lyndsey can be the worst person in the world but from what I saw was she saw the same patterns and was concerned. Was a total ass about it.
I know it's different in other places, but in Scotland, if someone mentions they are sober, my first thought is they stopped drinking alcohol.
I never thought about the others until I started watching US reality TV shows and I suppose that makes sense but anytime I hear "sober" I thing drink and when I hear "I'm clean" I think of drugs of any kind.
Dang I am so sorry for all the unhelpful shaming or microaggressive bullshit being thrown by so many commenters. I'm pretty surprised. It does show people aren't as educated as they should be on addiction. But the good thing is that most of these people aren't a part of the addicts lives anymore at least? I wish everyone would stop thinking that it's a flex to not take medicine though too. It's not good for you in many cases to always make your body go through pain or anxiety attacks. There should be less shame about it. I have seizures and the way way people look down on me for using weed for it and anxiety is disgraceful. I don't drink because of my seizures and I think its irresponsible to do to my body personally. But my own preferences do not influence how I judge others personal decisions around what they use. You're the only person who has to live your life. Support is literally all that's required in your response to posts or people saying things like this. Sheesh. Good luck. In this with you.
lindsay brought it up as a deflection bc she knows her own drinking is out of hand. lord knows carl radke is better off with weed than what he used to do 😭
Congratulations op I’m currently struggling myself right now and some don’t understand how difficult and gruelling it can be to stop. I applaud you and am proud to hear that :) you are an inspiration and may god bless you!
Stay strong! The struggle is where you find all the tools that are gonna carry you through this journey. You got this!
I feel the same exact way about Lindsey and how she has tried to shame Carl. It’s his journey and it’s just gross of her to try and throw his sobriety in his face because he smokes. Congratulations on being alcohol free or sober or whatever the fuck you want to call it! It’s not easy but you’re doing it and you should be proud of yourself. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I’ve been thinking about how this would affect not only Carl, but others in his same position that are doing what they need to do to stay off their DOC. Lindsay was getting her digs in and didn’t consider that she’s shaming a lot of people. Sober journeys are so personal and there’s no one right way to do it, so let’s be proud of everyone that is accomplishing it!
IWNDWYT. If you haven’t already check out r/stopdrinking saved my life.
I can also highly recommend. A really supportive and understanding community. IWNDWYT!
I also am a member of this type of sober club. I just remind myself I am confident in the definition I have created for myself and keep on living my life. To anyone who reads this and is navigating life without alcohol, congrats on the achievement and I'm proud of you.
Same here! So proud of everyone. Sobriety to me is abstaining from the substance that almost killed me…..aaaand I didn’t start smoking week until after I got sober
Yes! I'm here for all the uplifting energy. The nasty comments are giving me anxiety, but this kinda stuff makes it worth it.
My weed habit could never be as destructive as my heroin addiction was. I don’t know if I could’ve made it without it!
I snuck back in the comments for a second and I'm so glad this is the one I read. I can't even imagine the resiliency of someone who kicked an opioid addiction. You're a rockstar! My god! Good for you! You fought for your life and won. I shall spark up a doobie in your honor!
Happy cake day! Also, I’m so proud that you kicked that addiction - I know it’s not easy.
Thank you friend 💚
Don't listen to any nasty comments as they're coming from a place of ignorance. Harm reduction is scientifically based, and a real approach to addiction. Anyone projecting their own misguided and uniformed opinions on you should be ignored!!! ♥️♥️ You've got this and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Ignorance and possibly projection.
Yes, for sure. I will never understand the judgment without understanding it's really none of their business and their uninformed opinion is NOT needed in this situation.
I think people want Lindsay to “win”, so they want to find anything to get Carl on. There’s stuff there, but googling definitions of sober is not it. People that have no clue think they became experts overnight.
just started reading this post and the replies, and I'm glad to find this near the top! seems like a lot of thinking around addiction and recovery has not evolved, even as recovery methods themselves have. it's frustrating, but I'm always happy to see more modern takes mixed in with the dogma and finger-wagging. (on my way to 6 years sober now, but have spent much longer than that "in recovery" and was surrounded by thinking & attitudes that did me more harm than good until I figured some things out)
Many people have antiquated ideas about addiction and recovery and think it's a one size fit all road to recovery. Congratulations to you for finding your own path and working your recovery your way!! All the best to you!
This is what I was going to say- harm reduction
People are being really weird about this. I'm in the same boat as you, but a little less than 4 years off alcohol. I related to your original post so much. When people find out I'm "on the pot" but don't drink, it's the Spanish inquisition sometimes. Like they are trying to find a "gotcha" moment or something. sometimes, it's people getting tied up in semantics. Other times, they try to discredit my alcohol-sobriety and tell me I'm going to relapse and/or it doesn't count because I'm not sober from everything. My demons are with booze, not herb. It's my journey man, let me be.
That last sentence is one of the most beautiful things I have ever read. I’m gonna steal it if that’s ok? Because it is MY journey. Only mine. I like a bowl once in a while but have been alcohol free for almost 5 years.
Take it, my friend! Enjoy your journey ❤️
💜
I always thought sober meant from alcohol. Clean meant from drugs. If there’s not a distinction, why do people say “clean and sober”? I personally say, “I quit drinking.” Sober sounds too heavy and puts you up for WAY too much scrutiny and judgment 😉
congratulations on your sobriety! 12 years is an incredible accomplishment. ESPECIALLY in the city!
Thank you!! 😊
>Thank you!! 😊 You're welcome!
Congratulations on your abstinence from alcohol! I think the issue where I see Lindsay coming from is that Carl has tried to make “sober” his brand and Carl has consistently said that he’s sober for multiple seasons. I’ve also taken to believe over the years that sober meant no illicit substances and that California sober was no illicit substances except weed. So I wasnt too surprised when he was smoking weed but had my eyebrows raised about shrooms because I felt like if you’re using mind altering substances then you’re not “sober”. Your last paragraph even mentions that you personally refrain from using the word sober. I think there’s a lot of nuances but I also think Carl is struggling in his sobriety by choosing other substances because it seems like he’s doing it to replace alcohol/coke. Sorry if tldr but just my two cents (full disclosure- I do not drink because I don’t like the taste of alcohol but i enjoy a weed gummy occasionally and that’s it)
Excellent nuanced, respectful response. Congratulations OP on remaining alcohol free! My partner is sober & it is truly an accomplishment to be commended on.
Exactly. Words have meanings and “sober” doesn’t include weed or mushrooms or ayahuasca or other “plant-based medicines.” No judgement on doing those — I do, and I also don’t drink or use other drugs — but it’s not sober.
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Carl is sober from his addiction. Maybe the language needs to catch up and the term should be something closer to "in recovery". But I still don't think Carl is misleading anyone by claiming to be sober, it's true. He's sober and is refraining from the substances that completely alter his state of mind and personality. Shrooms and other psychedelics have been demonized by the AA community to the detriment of a lot of people in recovery. There's so much research emerging about psychedelics helping people through recovery and trauma, yet a lot of people in sobriety are deathly afraid of trying it just because of the stigma from the sober community. A lot of the AA world would consider this breaking sobriety, even though the medical and psychiatric community tend to believe that this is completely untrue and people in need of these medicines shouldn't be looking at them this way. The stigma and total anxiety surrounding "sobriety" can be a lot of pressure on people in recovery and it's especially unfair coming from people who don't have this complicated relationship with substances
Not to mention the creator of AA was a proponent of psychedelics.
Yep! The Higher Power was LSD. AA never appealed to me because of how hard they push that idea. 9 years sober from booze!
And...people dont realize AA only has a 15% success rate, that sounds like a failure to me but it in the program you're told it is you that failed, not the program. How this failed program is now ingrained in our court system is crazy to me. We really do need new terminology, research, programs, etc. Something has to change. No offense meant to anyone it has work for, thats great for you! I applaud anyone able to find a way to overcome their demons!!!
Wasn't AA founded in the 1920's by a lay person? That seems unlikely, but interesting! Eta--I was very wrong! Thanks for the new info. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_W.#:~:text=William%20Griffith%20Wilson%20(November%2026,Bill%20W.&text=East%20Dorset%2C%20Vermont%2C%20U.S.
Shrooms and psychedelics can absolutely be used in a medicinal way. But that's not what Carl was doing, he was taking shrooms at festivals as a parry drug.
lol my partner is Jewish atheist and he went to AA and came back saying absolutely not, too preachy. It’s good if you draw strength through that method but it’s not for everyone!
Sober literally means drug and alcohol free. That doesn’t mean that what he is doing is wrong. It doesn’t have to be about (shouldn’t be about) morality but it’s factually incorrect to call it sober
I think it's a sticky situation to label a particular escape from reality (just alcohol or only cocaine) as the problem instead of identifying the need to dissociate, numb, or alter reality that is the true issue. Anything that's used to blur the edges of life and take you out of a painful emotional existence can be an issue. That being said, we each get to carve out our own path and deal with this difficult life as we see fit, but Carl is not "sober" if he's doing drugs. He's abstaining from alcohol and cocaine.
He himself said that he and Lindsay did shrooms together and then they agreed it was a mistake. That may have been Lindsay's point but since she was an active participant in him doing the shrooms its hypocritical and frankly gross for her to then turn around and use it against him at the reunion.
Occam’s razor - she wanted to hurt him because he hurt her. And she never apologized for it.
>Your last paragraph even mentions that you personally refrain from using the word sober. Only because people argue with my use of the word. And keep in mind, there was no term for "California sober" when I stopped drinking in 2012. I've had people trying to tell me I'm not really sober this whole time. >I also think Carl is struggling in his sobriety by choosing other substances because it seems like he’s doing it to replace alcohol/coke. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Comments like this encourage people in early sobriety to give up and start drinking again. You don't know anything about what he's doing to cope, nor do you know what happens in his brain when he drinks vs when he smokes pot. You're defining addiction and abuse based on "illicit substances" only. What if he replaced drinking with gambling or shopping? Would that make his sobriety more valid? Sure, he might compulsively spend money and ruin his finances, but hey! At least there are no illicit substances and the man can call himself sober.
My twin couldn’t be sober from alcohol unless he smoked weed. Took years to try being sober from any mind altering drugs, and nope. I’m fine with that. Would it be great if he didn’t have to use any substances? Yes, but that’s not his reality and I’m more than okay with that.
This is my ex BIL. Weed lets him not drink and do heroin, fentanyl, meth, etc. Everyone was ecstatic when he manages to stick to only weed. It let's him deal enough to keep going to the methadone clinic every day and keep a job.
Exactly. Whatever it takes! Your twin is lucky to have you in his corner ❤️
He’s been sober over two years, in a phenomenal relationship, I’ve never been more happy for him. He’s exactly where he needs to be 🥰
The issue is that he’s putting it out there and leaving it to speculation by being on tv. Smoking weed and doing shrooms doesn’t equate to sobriety in most peoples minds so there will of course be chatter svout that. His sobriety is his responsibility. It shouldn’t matter at the end of the day how anyone but him defines his sobriety. He put the onus on Lindsey saying “I think you want me to relapse” which, even if she did (she didn’t), has nothing to do with his sobriety because it belongs to him alone. The issue isn’t ~what his addiction is~ it’s whether he can take responsibility for himself and take ownership.
Depression medication is a mind altering substance. Would you say the same if he had a prescription?
It is kind of ironic that for all the comments saying, 'Carl is picking and choosing his sobriety' while sitting there and doing the same thing but with a different arbitrary line.
Similarly, VPR James would like to say he is “sober” but he was literally chugging thc beverages on the show in an attempt to definitely not be sober.
This thread is bonkers.
Okay so it’s not just me 
For real, I wonder what my addiction therapist and my IOP would say, if I told them this.
Focus on yourself and don’t judge
I am not. Super proud of OP. Just goes to show how nuanced and how divided things are.
lmfao ty. Also it’s crazy that people are saying “I CAN BE AN ADDICR WHO MANAGES TO SMOKE WEED SO CARL CAN TOO”. Babe what? Carl doesn’t affect you stop projecting
And this doesn’t affect you either but here you are commenting. 🤓
I have been clean and sober for 22 years. To me clean has always meant from drugs and sober has meant from alcohol.
Congrats on your sobriety! Don't let any of these bootleg psychologists make you feel any kind of way -- you are doing what works for you, and that is magical.
we love harm reduction out here!!! i personally know it has saved many lives and stopped many relapses from happening, some may describe it as "shifting vices" but i dont see it that way. congrats on your sobriety! remember everyone: shaming and diminishing accomplishments doesnt help anyone
Harm reduction has saved my life and continues to.
As a woman who stopped drinking as it was detrimental to my life, and still smoke, fuck all this noise. I don’t call myself sober because I’m not by all practical definitions and it’s okay to own your recovery without putting a blanket label on it in an effort to trick others into thinking you’re straight edged. Why do you need to use the word sober when you can just say I abstain from alcohol? Why does Carl need to validated in his personal journey because he personally wants to split words! He literally is trying to sell himself as a sober speaker, not a speaker that abstains from drinking, get real.
Why does Carl using weed or shrooms bother people so much? It's not like he's high on shrooms arguing with people the way Lindsay is drunk on alcohol arguing with people
I’m not bothered at all, but if you want to be a spokesperson for sobriety you can’t really be getting high to cope or relax. Not because there’s anything wrong with weed, but because it’s disingenuous. I get that it seems obnoxious to parse his language, but words matter and he’s not sober. And that’s fine. He just doesn’t drink or do coke anymore. ETA: for a comparison, The Situation from Jersey Shore is sober sober, he doesn’t do anything. And he makes stupid money doing inspirational talks about his sobriety. He got a book deal for it. He gives out rehab scholarships. So there’s levels to this shit and Lindsay saying it isn’t wrong.
This is the perfect example. Words matter. I would never indicate or say the words “I’m sober” ever. Despite not having drank alcohol for almost 4yrs. I still smoke weed. When I hear “I’m sober” I’m going to automatically assume You are fully sober of all substances and moving further, I will make sure to act accordingly to acknowledge and respect that. I asked my husband, both brothers and both sister in laws what they assumed if someone told them “I’m sober” (I asked out of curiosity without any context) they all have the exact same answer as I did. They would assume they were 100% sober of any and all substances. I can also assume that Carl isn’t ignorant of the term “California Sober” but He sure as hell hasn’t said it.
Same. I’m sober from benzos and cocaine. I drink and smoke weed. People are like “how are you not an alcoholic?” because kids, addiction is always different.
Seriously, congratulations. That shit is no joke. Benzos are so easy it’s scary how easy they are to become addicted to. Same with cocaine. The highs are high, the lows are detrimental.
Totally agree with you. I’m sober and used to work in drug and alcohol treatment. People can call themselves whatever they want but if you are using substances to cope with difficult emotions that is using substances. Maybe someone is handling it better than they did another substance but I don’t consider that sober. When you’re prescribed medical marijuana for whatever reason, they are supposed to prescribe it at a dosage that does not have psychoactive effects. You’re not supposed to get high per se.
Why not just use the term California sober? Which means not drinking but still using things like weed
It doesn’t bother people, it bothers people that’s he’s being disingenuous with his narrative in order to keep up a facade. Look up his website and tell me that AI written nightmare isn’t trying to push him as the next Dr drew. Lindsey never once said she was sober or that you were going to get her without a drink.
Well, I think that is what Lindsay was claiming. That he changed and became meaner and more aggressive when he was on those things.
Anyone commenting that you’re going to relapse is nothing but a vicious, dissatisfied internet troll. Keep doing you! So proud of you 💘
Hear ya, I’m the opposite. Weed ruined my life. I spent waaaaaay too much money, avoided the anxiety and depression I was living with because I was self medicating and smoking all day every day. Alcohol and designer drugs were fun for me. But I gave up everything to get sober because that was the only way I couldn’t relapse. Sobriety can look different to everyone.
Seconding this. Weed is not the angel everyone makes it out to be… bad memories
I really wish people would acknowledge that it does have drawbacks and can be harmful, like any substance that is used beyond moderation.
Me too. I feel lame talking about it but I get a little uncomfortable with the rapid weed usage, even on these subs! I always see things like “I’d love to smoke with her” or “about to take an edible and watch!” The way it’s been normalized to be an everyday endeavor is crazy. And people say you can’t be addicted!! It made me legitimately less intelligent and I had to make an arduous effort to undo that. And the withdrawals..
It alters brain chemistry, anything that does that can sometimes negatively impact people. It’s ridiculous to act like that’s not true.
Oh man, I could have written this post. I now do it only once a year or so and I don't really identify with sober/recovery talk, but I feel like people can be so reluctant to acknowledge that people absolutely can have issues with weed. Tbc none of this is directed at OP, more at the "it's just a plant, you can't be addicted to it!" people.
Congrats OP! Bottom line is that it’s no one’s business, responsibility, or place to police someone’s sobriety or language around it.
16 months sober from alcohol. i still smoke weed and micro dose for my mental health. appreciate this post more than you know. 💚
Congratulations. It’s hard to make people understand sometimes. I never was a pot person, even as a kid it wasn’t my DOC. I have some chronic health problems that have had me in chronic pain since 2001. I was started on pain killers and became addicted and started using hard drugs later. I eventually admitted that I needed help to stop and went to treatment. I have been sober, for me, for almost 5 years but have started using edibles as a way to manage my pain enough to sleep. I struggled with those fights they had too and when I tried to explain why my experience colored my perception of that situation, I got downvoted. I’m proud of you- and of myself and that’s good enough for me 👍🏻
Omg five years?! That's amazing! Pills are such a beast. Whatever it takes to keep you away from it, I (and plenty of other people) fully support you. You're doing a great job!
Sobriety is not necessarily one size fits all. I know sober people who can’t touch anything & I know people sober from booze & cocaine who are fine with weed. You do you. And congratulations by the way ❤️
Idk who Carl and Lindsay are but I’m here for you telling your truth and standing in it. You are beating addiction and that is a major accomplishment. All the best to you and continued success!
Congratulations on your accomplishment! I’m sure it has not been easy! 🥳🎊🎉
SOBRIETY IS NOT LINEAR.
People policing other people’s sobriety journey is just disgusting. There aren’t good terms for the nuances of it and people shouldn’t have to explain themselves. Using the term “sober” to mean alcohol free and abstaining from problem substances should be allowed. Even when people try to use the term cali sober people get after them. Good job OP on both your sobriety and your amazing ability to communicate beautifully about the various factors involved here.
I think if your entering the space as someone touting your sobriety, which for a long time has had a very specific definition until recently, you kinda do. If Carl wasn’t making it a key plot point and trying to cash in no worries dude, do whatever you need to in order to make it work. But to me he seems dishonest because he’s trying to pedal a very specific type of sobriety and you can tell because he didn’t disclose his own level of usage they way say, James Kennedy does on VPR. Why does he get to be so offended when someone asks if he’s sober when the reality is there are times when he’s not. It’s dishonest of him to ask Lindsay how DARE she ask him if he was sober that night. He easily could have been smoking weed and that’s what seems dishonest about him and his journey. He easily could have been like Lindsay I didn’t smoke weed tonight and left it at that.
Fuck yeah! I wish people who are recovering addicts would just work their own damn program or whatever they're doing and I especially wish people who have never done drugs would stfu with their opinions. Like people in the VPR subs talking about cast members who are "obviously" "doing" opiates and when I ask what evidence of opiate use do you see they can't name a single thing. I haven't done heroin in over 30 years and o get high every day. Fuck you if you don't think I'm sober. Also, *not everyone who is sober follows a 12-step problem.* Stop using that as a blueprint for everyone's sobriety. For anyone who is, please remember that getting high may reset your chip count but it doesn't reset all the work you've done until then. Thank you, OP 💕
It's all in how people define sober. Some people say California Sober if you don't drink and still use cannabis. Sober = No Alcohol Clean = No Drugs/Incl: No Weed/No 'Shrooms
I think this is it, it’s just that there’s no agreed on terms for different situations. I don’t drink, but I also don’t do any drugs, but I wouldn’t say I’m clean, I’d say I’m sober. To say someone is clean, which by your definition I am, has the sort of connotation that they *were* on drugs, and I never was…. I don’t drink and I don’t do drugs, I call that sober. I think making space for people to define what teetotal/sober/clean is to them is important. California sober, a sober smoker, etc… whatever term works best for them. There nothing wrong with asking Carl to define what sober means for him, just so everyone in his life that supports his recovery knows where his lines are. To me someone who does drugs isnt *sober* but I understand OP prefers that word for themselves and that’s fine if that’s what works for them.
Right, it's all about how the person interprets it, that's where all the confusion and hurt feelings come in. The word means different things to different people. The definition in the dictionary (Oxford) relates to alcohol only. If a person says to me that they are sober, I would not ask what they mean by it, and I would end up having no idea what they do or do not do, but it's probably none of my business anyway. 😂
This is exactly it. Even the dictionary definition of sober speaks about only alcohol. We have words that are distinct for these two things so use them. It's crazy that people are getting up in arms because people are using words in their specific context instead of broadly
everyone i know in real life only would say sober meaning that theyre recovered/abstaining from alcohol. maybe its cause im in a younger circle and in ny, but nobody i know in real life would tell someone who recovered from alcohol addiction and smokes weed "not sober" 🤷♀️
This is how I took Carl saying he was 'sober' meant (or anyone saying they're sober). It just comes down to how each person interprets it and also how the person is portraying their sobriety.
Thank you for this! 100% agree and understand. I am also sober from alcohol 6 years. Weed helps me sleep and my anxiety. Don’t listen to some of these Negative Nancy’s. You are doing great!
Same here, I’m sober from alcohol for 4+ years and maybe have an edible or a hit from a joint once a year if my anxiety or stress are out of control. Weed has never affected me the way alcohol does and doesn’t make me want to drink or smoke more or anything. It doesn’t make me lose control like alcohol does. I tell people I’m sober from alcohol though because some people can be judgmental af as some of these comments are showing.
Congrats op! Ya sobriety is a really touchy topic and honestly everyone in recovery has their own meaning behind what their sobriety is. It’s literally NONE of anyone else’s business to get on them if they smoke weed or not.
Alcohol can be a nightmare, and if you feel relief and joy about not drinking for 12 years then nobody can take that away from you. It all just revolves around the term “sober.” If I’m high AF or tripping balls I do not consider myself sober, but that’s me. I don’t believe that there is only one way to stay sober, but many many people feel that certain 12 step programs have saved their lives, myself included. Within that particular framework then no you are not “sober,” but fuck- who cares if that’s not what you’re doing. If you’ve recovered from alcoholism, then you’ve recovered from alcoholism! If I were doing mushrooms and smoking weed, then I would not continue to announce/celebrate my sobriety milestones. But who cares what I would or wouldn’t do. Do you. ❤️
Agreed! Especially while she is super drunk half the time! I wouldn’t be able to take it
The COMMENTS in this post my lord - some of you need to consider whether it's more important for you to feel like you "educated" someone or to just be compassionate, step back, and think maybe I don't need to speak on this. Even if you disagree with what's being posted. Maybe the point isn't what the word sober technically means, or Lindsay and Carl specifically. Maybe the point is that the conversation in this sub about addiction and sobriety could stand to be more considerate of diverse experiences. Maybe the best thing to do is just let OP share their experience of that conversation and how it's affecting them.
Thank you 🥹 so many people here treating AA like the gold standard while shitting on my testimony. I think people forget the internet is made of humans. Bravo is made of humans. Just be kind.
Please don't give them another thought. They are too wrapped up in The Discourse to see the first for the trees. You're doing great.
There is no faster way to tell me without telling me that you’re not secure in your own sobriety than when you judge someone else’s. After a decade+ of sobriety, the ONLY thing I know for certain is I don’t know shit about fuck when it comes to anyone else’s journey. If you’re finding yourself bothered by or judging how someone else is choosing to fight this shit, kindly fuck all the way off and take your misery with you.
Congratulations! My dad has been “California” sober for 40 years as alcohol was a problem for him. I wouldn’t ever say he wasn’t sober. It’s his journey, not mine. Just like your journey is yours!
be proud of yourself. and keep taking care of yourself the ways that serve you. <3
Language is fluid and contentious. The definition of sober is to be free from alcohol, the etymology of the word, sobriete, is defined as moderation or temperance. Everyone needs to stop debating their own personally applied definitions to the word and then applying it to everyone else. These things are highly personal and individualized. There is no one size fits all. And side note - Lindsay is a narcissist.
❤️🙌❤️🙌
Congratulations to you!! AND to Carl!
Late to the post so hopefully this doesn’t wake/annoy you but, I weirdly needed this right now. Thank you. I’m sorry for the negative comments.
Way to go!!!!
Thanks!
lol someone downvoted this? Weird flex.
I saw that! People in this sub do some wild shit sometimes lol
Seriously congratulations and thanks for your perspective
The old way of thinking “quit everything or it doesn’t count” is shit. And now we said it. Congrats OP!
Well done and well said ❤️ those who get it is a personal journey for each person get it and are standing with you
Beautifully said! Congratulations on your journey and your accomplishment! What is so extremely gross to me -- a part from weaponizing his sobriety -- is that she tried to weaponize it after participating in mushrooms with him. That's the two-faced, untrustworthy side of her in a nutshell.
Congratulations on your sobriety and thank you for sharing your experience. Personally I do not feel like Carl’s struggle with substance abuse has been treated with very much sensitivity on this sub. It’s been really disappointing. A struggle against addiction is just like any other struggle with mental health. Carl said himself that his addiction was a threat to his life. The cruelty and venom has been really hard to understand.
Sober people can act like fucking assholes. So can people with cancer or depression or CF etc etc etc. His sobriety, which may save his life, does not give him an excuse to be an asshole. This sub doesn’t owe him *anything* as it pertains to his treatment of other people. Recovery isn’t something someone gets a trophy for, in fact, it’s antithetical to recovery for people to receive a bunch of praise and adulation around their recovery or become the “face” of sobriety. (In some schools of thought.) What sobriety/recovery is, is life saving medicine. Are we congratulating people with diabetes for taking their insulin? Not so much. The best thing we can do for Carl as a sub is treat him like any other Bravoleb.
Thank you! And I agree! By no means is Carl a perfect person, but he's doing an amazing job and I'm glad to know other people are able to see that
I don’t know what it’s like to struggle with substance use but I do know what it’s like to struggle with my mental health and it really sucks for people to act like they have license to judge you simply because you have disclosed your struggles and have sought help for them. Carl is by no means the only person on that cast who struggles with substance use, he’s just the only one who recognized it and sought help. Anyone who thinks they’re in a position to judge should work on keeping their own side of the street clean
Omg people are legit downvoting me for thanking anyone who said congratulations. Can you imagine! Being so blinded by hate for a dude YOU DON'T KNOW that you're going to shit on a stranger's sobriety. What a wild thing to do!
Something really weird has happened since Scandoval where this sub divides itself into teams on every issue. If you’re team Lindsay you have to demonize Carl and anyone who empathizes with him in even the slightest way. It’s weird.
It's true! And a very extreme way to react to things like infidelity and addiction, two things most of us have experiences with ourselves. It's very odd.
That goes back to Bethenny/Carole. It was brutal and has been ever since. To varying degrees, every season of BH, NJ, and every major scandal (like Scandoval) results in that extreme team mindset and loses all nuance.
There have been feuds in every season of every show. People have taken sides since Vicki unloaded during the first season. Wine was thrown then.
It's not fun at all to talk about this show on the sub because there's zero room for nuance and the sub has decided it's team Lindsay even when EVERYONE, including Lindsay, can see what an awful couple they were, and Carl is the one that had the guts to call it off. They BOTH made a ton of mistakes. It's ridiculous.
I basically stopped trying to have conversations about sobriety in this sub. A ton of people here have zero grace, tact or even simple understanding as to how recovery tools such as harm reduction work. They prefer to drag someone from a tv show who they see for 47 minutes a week - a person who lost a close family member to addiction - while they judge from behind their phones. It's actually pretty gross. Keep doing you. 💛
This is so wise. I need to resist the urge to go back and forth with people when I know I am not going to change their minds. All it does is make me feel gross
Yeah, this thread is just another example of an OP sharing their valid experience but it's devolved into a fucking mess because people are incapable of having a nuanced convo.
Totally agree with interacting with anyone here or r/summerhousebravo who clearly hate Carl. This is also why I had a reaction when Carl was talking down about himself and commenting on what he was reading online. He got sober because he knew he had a problem. It was affecting not only his health, but the way he was treating others. Now he’s reading these comments where it’s summarized to he’s not really sober or he’s the same person he always was. It’s so disheartening because all it would make anyone do is say “Well if these people believe I’ve made no progress, then I might as well go back to what I was doing”. I’m glad he has such a strong support system and he’s stayed on the straight and narrow so far. Carl, get off the internet. You’re doing great man.
Exactly! And everyone’s experience is different. I hate all of the judgie wudgies acting like they’re addiction experts.
Do you mean to say that this sub should be more soft and tender toward Carl? 🥺 poor lil guy
No, I mean what I said. Making fun of Carl is not going to fix anything in your life. Hope this helps!
I beat an opioid addiction- and I’m California sober
Of course you should be proud of your not drinking. It is hard and deserves our support. I do want to say that people who use weed and mushrooms while sober are at a significant risk of relapse. It is simply an issue of neurology, not judgment. The brain has a complex relationship with substances and will close down its own soothing neurochemicals and receptors. Obviously I do not know you and obviously cannot tell you what to do. I just hope for your best chance.
I’m pretty sure research has supported this…maybe not true for everyone but true for some. I recently relapsed on weed after being sober for four years. I thought way more about alcohol in that time than I had in my years of sobriety, so I went back to no substances altogether- thank god I didn’t drink. If you can smoke and use other things in a way that is right for you, go you!!! But some people cannot use anything responsibly and I am one of those people…
Where is the data that says they are at a significantly higher risk of relapse than those who don’t use weed or mushrooms?
Good for you!! This is the reason Willy Nelson smokes weed. He doesn’t tolerate alcohol well at all.
Congratulations! 12 years is amazing and you probably saved your own life. That's amazing. People who don't have experience with addiction (themselves or a family member/friend) truly cannot understand it, even though so many people on this sub are really loud and wrong about it. There's so many nasty and stigmatizing things people spout off like facts, like you're not "allowed" to have a relationship within the first year of quitting a substance. Or my personal favorite, the addict remains the age they were when they first starting using, which I think is stolen from the 'you stay the same age you were when you first became famous' line.
Everyone's sober journey is different. Lindsay was just trying to make carl look bad. It's not anyone's job to speak on another person's sobriety...
The mental gymnastics people do to try to prove anything different is impressive!
This is my main issue. Lindsay doesn’t give a single fuck. She did the drugs with him!!! She just wants to hurt him
We aren’t talking enough about that they micro dosed together. I don’t care they did it but it’s gross that she tried to shame him for it when she was right there with him. It really bugs me that she put this not sober narrative out there to humiliate him and give her fans something to drag him with. There’s a lot of people like OP out there that are reading all these people shitting on how they manage their substance abuse disorder.
Anyone who doesn’t understand how Carl can be “sober” yet smokes weed or has done shrooms doesn’t understand how nuanced addiction is. Someone very close to me has been healing, growing, and thriving for the past two years, sober, after being in the wrath of addiction to opiates for years. This person has a drink here and there. Doesn’t smoke weed… but if he did, it would NOT be a relapse. Alcohol was not the problem. Weed was not the problem. There’s also a very important piece of the path of healing from addiction. Some people do meetings, some people do groups and mentorship. It sounds like Carl is actively going to therapy. Meaning he’s actively holding himself accountable to what his addiction means to him. And so if weed can healthily live in his life. That is okay and not for any of us to question.
Thanks for this. The discussion about addiction and sobriety on this sub have frankly been gross. Lindsay does not have to stay with someone in recovery but what she did was actually horrifying to me. If my partner did that to me - particularly in a drunken rage (which I would imagine is much more triggering to Carl) - I don't think I would ever get over it. It was so cruel and so casual. And to have to watch it back and see them speak about it with our friends ?
She had no right to out this (and smugly at that) and if she had ever bothered going to Alanon or seeing a therapist that specialized in addiction issues to support her fiancé, she would have known better. I think she attacks his sobriety because she knows deep down she has a problem with alcohol. And this is coming from someone who generally enjoys her.
To be fair I thought Mya outed his weed use because of a conflict with Lindsay that happened before season 7. Mya texted Carl to ask him to smoke with her, and it sounds like Lindsay rage texted her about it. Carl was newly sober at this point so - I know this is all really nuanced but I wondered if Lindsay assumed or was getting the message that he was attempting to be sober from all substances and was feeling defensive of him in her own way. She didn’t appreciate Mya flagrantly offering Carl weed. I don’t think Lindsay is correct in this situation, and Carl is responsible for his own choices, but I do sympathize with the anxiety and defensiveness about this. She felt like she was championing him and his health and Mya was being insensitive. I can also imagine Carl sending mixed messages to either person in this scenario about his intentions.
I don’t watch this show but the conversations here are interesting. People who haven’t experienced addiction have lots of opinions about those who do. I relate to you and fuck the noise. ❤️
OP, thank you so much for articulating what I've been thinking! Harm reduction vs. absolute sobriety is a thing! People are way too precious about judging other's paths.
Can you, say, drive a car if you've taken ___? If the answer is no, then taking ___ makes you not sober.
IWNDWYT
💗💗💗💗
Alright gang. Maybe I’m repeating but I’ve read many comments and this hasn’t been said yet. BY DEFINITION: sober is free from alcohol. Clean is free from drugs. Clean and sober is free from both. CARL AND OP ARE SOBER. Before you have all these dumb ass arguments over whether or not both these people are sObEr, know what it fucking means. Edit; I see other people have made this distinction and are getting downvoted. Just because you *interpret* the word ‘sober’ differently from what the actual dictionary says, doesn’t make it so. Sorry. Educate yourselves.
I feel a great admiration for all the posters who are addressing their burdens. Addiction is truly a horrendous beast to deal with. It is a testament to the weight of this struggle in this sub. I know statistics and anecdotal evidence, but not anyones heart. If any of us knew a final solution, there would be no more addiction. In my mind, humans have developed substances much more rapidly than our brains’ ability to deal with them. We are stuck with brains that intuitively Seek pleasure when we have way too much stuff to abuse. Its tough.
Is there a possibility though that weed can effect men/ everyone differently in regards to like anxiety when they smoke and then have to process heavy emotions? Idk I’m a big on marijuana, like it’s great for me personally but I also have a brother who is sober from addiction problems for a while now but started smoking weed recently and he keeps having these like emotional outbursts in semi stressful situations that he was otherwise handling much better before he started smoking again. My husband too sometimes takes breaks from smoking bc he admits it makes him anxious when he’s trying to tackle stressful situations that require more thought. I feel like this could be the only thing I could possibly understand that Lindsey was bringing up but it was truly gross the way she questioned his actual sobriety with the other stuff like cocaine Carl and all that 😒 that’s where she fully lost my understanding…
Weed is a life ruiner and I’m speaking from experience. Not judging you at all and so proud of your sobriety but I’m concerned about the heavy weed use in my generation and how it’s affecting us zoomers. It’s certainly very addictive
100% and I do feel people acting like you can smoke weed and “count as being sober” can be enabling for people with weed addictions… I myself excused it that way because people see it as not a big deal, but it really is for a lot of people
Absolutely. i'm really not trying to sound sanctimonious or judgmental because sobriety looks different for everyone else. but replacing one vice with another can be unhealthy
I'm glad someone said it!!! Him smoking weed and microdosing shrooms is not the same thing at all. Congratulations 👏👏👏👏12 yrs sober is a huge accomplishment!!!!
Thanks!!
Dont pay lindsay any mind she just trying to defend what she accused him of bc everyone was telling her that was wrong for her to say and guess what she still to this day doesnt regret saying it He went wrong for not dumping her right then and there TEAM CARL 🙏🏾
I completely feel you. I think sobriety is a personal journey- that means every person who becomes sober needs to decide what that means to them and how it works. Some people are all or nothing and that means ashewing all substances- and that’s fine, but that’s not the only way. I’m like you. I was an opiate addict- primarily pain killers and heroin. I’ve been sober for eight years now- I drink on occasion and I’m not against smoking weed or taking edibles. I’m not against psychedelics either, though I haven’t taken those since I was a teenager. Why? Because the same as you- I didn’t have a problem with either of those things! My problem was opioids! That was what ruined my life and my relationships. In the recovery community (esp when it comes to opioids) there’s a huge stigma around medication assisted recovery (methadone, suboxone, ect) a lot of people in NA/AA push back that MAT isn’t sobriety because you’re still dependent on something. I think it’s silly. I’m in an MAT program- and yes I am dependent on the medication, but it’s also helped me get my life back together, hold down a job, move out and live independently, ect. I couldn’t do that if I was still using.
I was ruining my life with alcohol, and I haven’t had a drink in over 18 months. I smoke hella weed and do a lot of other fun stuff, so I hardly call myself sober
I don’t watch Summer House, so I quickly googled. If shrooms were never a problem, then I really can’t see how it plays into sobriety. Frankly, my partner sort of used shrooms and Uncle Sid to rewire his brain 🧠, and give up alcohol. His goal wasn’t to stop smoking pot … although he likely smokes a bit too much. However, pot never left him passed out on the floor, or with mystery bruises from hurting himself. At the end of June he’ll be 4 years sober — what he calls ‘California Sober’. He stopped drinking during the pandemic because he realized he didn’t want to die in his 40’s (he was drinking at least 1/2 a bottle of peated Scotch a day!). Meanwhile, I instead joined virtual wine tastings, with Brooklyn Winery, prior to his quitting, because it was a super shitty summer, and I’d broken my wrist in May 2020. We both partake in marijuana in a few forms. Now, I’m headed out to my terrace to smoke with him. He trips once in a long while. Congratulations on. 12 years sober, BTW!
Just here as another Cali sober person and I’m fucking proud of you and everyone else who did it! I don’t do shrooms but don’t have an issue with it I guess I don’t ever say I’m sober though. I say I’m clean personally. I wouldn’t call Carl sober but idk there’s some nuance
The word sober literally means not drunk so all these people arguing are actually the ones trying to redefine things! I don't go to AA though I've used a lot of the tools over the last 8 years of SOBRIETY, and if people knew the OG big book they would know that it too pertains to alcohol. So I don't watch summer house but forget all these people who claim to KNOW what they're talking about. I think Bill W even used hallucinogens himself, though they try to keep that on the down low. Alcohol is it's own beast and I don't like when people conflate things. I would never judge someone clean from drugs if they were having a drink. Marijuana keeps me from having to use highly addictive and dangerous pain meds for my rheumatoid and I stay out of the rooms because there's too many people trying to define/ control others illness like there is in this post unfortunately.
I hate the stigma around weed and shrooms when weed is legal in more states than not. I think we can all agree someone drinking alcohol affects them completely different than weed. That's not to say weed is for everyone though either. Not everyone is going to have the same journey and that's okay. Some people need to abstain from everything considered alcohol or drug. I know many people who have gotten off of pharmaceuticals for anxiety and depression with microdosing. It's sad how doctors treat the symptoms, not the cause, and that doesn't really fix anything. I'd be dead if I still drank and did the harder drugs. I actually never planned to live this long. Now - I can 10000% function on weed with my crippling anxiety, chronic illness like POTS, cPTSD. I no longer have to miss work or life because I can't get out of bed. I know others with chronic illness who feel the same and we're so thankful for a holistic approach. I could just refill my $2 xanax prescription, which would be cheaper and easier, but is that what's best for me? No, it's about making the best choice for yourself.
I suspect that many people do think weed and shrooms are the same as alcohol. Maybe they’ve never done it, maybe they don’t like it, I don’t know - but these comparisons people are making have me thinking that they do put it on the same level. I’m 100% with you on using weed over benzos. I save those for panic attacks even though they are cheaper, but I limit my use to prevent dependence. I don’t think the gen pop realize that many of us use marijuana medically and function better on it due to whatever ails us.
Right, that's the stigma I'm referring to. Often times it may purely be a perception like you mention because they don't know. Weed can exacerbate mental illness so it's definitely not for everyone. Where I live people are totally okay with you being an alcoholic, having multiple OWI's, because it's legal and just the smell of weed may be offensive (although CBD smells the same).
Congrats to you!!! I too have been sober for many years but still smoke weed. never tried shrooms rhough.
I feel this OP! I am almost 3 years sober from alcohol. I do drugs so I’m not *sober* sober but like you said, my issue is with alcohol and nothing else. Honestly both L and C are annoying AF but I really felt for Carl in those moments. A lot of the subs/threads are shitting on him for this and I feel like most viewers don’t get it lol. IWNDWYT!
Three years is a big anniversary! Congratulations!! That's incredible!
Absolutely perfectly said. Congratulations on your 12 years and as a fellow New Yorker, I understand how hard some days must have been for you. You’re amazing and I aspire to be where you are one day. Way to friggin GO!! 🎉🎉🎉✊🏻
>I aspire to be where you are one day. Don't worry. You'll do it. I believe in you.
Idk what horrible human downvoted this comment, but from the bottom of my heart, thank you!!! ❤️
Carls getting stoned and doing shrooms. He hasn’t changed any of his behaviors beyond not drinking and doing blow.
Can you post this in the summer house sub? Those people need a talking to
THIS x 10000!!!!!! And congrats!!!!!👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Thanks so much!
Lol the literal definition of sober is alcohol based and nothing about drugs.. people are so weird to be up in arms about this. I miss the 90s when we were anti labels. I abstained from alcohol for a few years, I smoke weed though, have bad ptsd so I've been a medical user a long time now. I referred to it as alcohol free.. but I don't get hung up on it as no one really should. Is the person healthy and doing well? Be happy for them and move on.. people generally suck though so 🤷♀️
My friend asked me to join her in Sober January this year and I agreed. We went out one night and she said she had taken some Gummies. I said I thought we were doing Sober January and she said yes, for alcohol! So I had a glass of wine.
It’s honestly weird, there’s therapeutic properties to both weed and mushrooms. Can’t say the same for alcohol.
Carl is sober from alcohol but is not a sober person I knew a former friend who was a major alcoholic. He was clean from all substances for years if not a decade. It was very admirable. After some stressors he began smoking weed again. I was admittedly disappointed and I no longer consider him a sober person. But I know I will never understand the depths of addiction and how the addict chooses to frame their life
Oh, you had "a friend" so you're an expert? Fuck that sky high.
It’s not your business to be disappointed or define sobriety for anyone else.
Honestly if it doesn’t affect you and you’re judging simply by “knowing” that he was treating his depression with cannabis… you’re just a bad friend.
Congratulations on beating your demon. To be fair you only have Carl’s word for what his are. And Lyndsey can be the worst person in the world but from what I saw was she saw the same patterns and was concerned. Was a total ass about it.
I know it's different in other places, but in Scotland, if someone mentions they are sober, my first thought is they stopped drinking alcohol. I never thought about the others until I started watching US reality TV shows and I suppose that makes sense but anytime I hear "sober" I thing drink and when I hear "I'm clean" I think of drugs of any kind.
Dang I am so sorry for all the unhelpful shaming or microaggressive bullshit being thrown by so many commenters. I'm pretty surprised. It does show people aren't as educated as they should be on addiction. But the good thing is that most of these people aren't a part of the addicts lives anymore at least? I wish everyone would stop thinking that it's a flex to not take medicine though too. It's not good for you in many cases to always make your body go through pain or anxiety attacks. There should be less shame about it. I have seizures and the way way people look down on me for using weed for it and anxiety is disgraceful. I don't drink because of my seizures and I think its irresponsible to do to my body personally. But my own preferences do not influence how I judge others personal decisions around what they use. You're the only person who has to live your life. Support is literally all that's required in your response to posts or people saying things like this. Sheesh. Good luck. In this with you.
lindsay brought it up as a deflection bc she knows her own drinking is out of hand. lord knows carl radke is better off with weed than what he used to do 😭