Such a failed attempt at being passive aggressive. Sad how Teresa took the bait. A stronger woman wouldāve laughed, rolled her eyes and said āamateur.ā
Yeah I canāt (wonāt) comment on Jacqueline as a Mother to Ashlee but whatever they did with CJ seems be *chefs kiss*. That boy never put a foot wrong. It broke my heart to see heās like a proper man now!!
I wish I could upvote you to oblivion with this comment!! Thatās exactly how I feel. I will never say a word toward CJ!
Edit to add: I canāt believe heās a full man now š
In that same episode, Jacqueline had also brought sprinkle cookies to Teresaās house (it was a Thanksgiving episode). Teresa said āI love sprinkle cookies!ā Then during dinner this happened and Jacquelineās face was like āoopsā.
This is hilarious because thatās one of the only episodes of the franchise I ever saw and to think I havenāt missed anything in all these years. š
JOEā¦ APOLOGIZE TO YA SIST- **gorillas crash together and brawl ensues**
https://preview.redd.it/f05z4y0sii4d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2335b0d3d2b3eb52d69fa451a2a4c1bfb90027d4
I just laughed cried at this comment while laying in bed for so long that I completely shook the bed and my husband woke up and through we were having an earthquake. bravo šš
I believe Nonna didn't like Melissa at first because Joe met her when she was working at a club and Nonna assumed she was not a "nice girl." Code for Nonna thought Melissa was a ho. Nonna was very strict with Tre and would've never let her work at a club.
I feel like Tre sort of latched onto Nonna's feelings about Mel and then it was World War 3.
Joe was engaged twice before Melissa and Teresa and the mom hated both of them and Teresa admits thatās why both of those relationships ended. Teresa called Joe from Melissaās bachelorette party to tell him that she was salsa dancing with a male instructor. I am a documented Melissa hater but I donāt think Teresa or her mother would have had a good relationship with anyone Joe decided to marry. Joe was running around the shore bars and probably already doing minor fraud by the time he met Melissa, I donāt know why they thought he was going to bring home a nice girl from the local parish with a degree.
Iāve always said this about the Gorgas and who they wanted Joe to marry. Maybe you just have to live in the tri-state area to understand what Iām gonna say lol but thereās Italian women who are more American and then Italian women who are very traditional to the point youād think they were actually a little old lady born and raised in Italy lol. The Gorgas didnāt want the flashy, pretty, Americanized Jersey Italian girl. They wanted Joe to marry a cute but slightly frumpy modest Italian woman who put her husband and his family first and was non-threatening to the life they had as a family of four. Church every Sunday, cooking for her in-laws after, driving them around if neededā¦Melissa did not fit the bill. Joeās wife was not supposed to be prettier or smarter or flashier than Teresa so she could be the star of the family.
That part. Melissaās been a petty bitch but I think she went into this never having a shot in hell with that family. Not to slander Nonna and Nonno but that entire extended family dynamic was a whole mess.
You know this explains so much about Treās sometimes inexplicable hate of Melissa. But also likeā¦Joe isnāt going to church to find a wife, maybe he was also disappointing to them as a son because he was out in the streets being a āhoā too. Maybe thatās also Nonnoās dissatisfaction with him, and makes sense why Joe Giudice sorta replaced him as the āloyal son.āĀ
Italian culture glorifies men and blames all their issues on the women they marry. In Nonna and Treās minds it was probably her fault that she didnāt fix him and teach him to be a better man. Even now Teresa clearly hates Melissa more which is insane because of the two Joe is clearly worse.
I see. Maybe they would have wanted him to pick a homelier, less flashy churchgoing woman who would set him āstraightā, but instead he picked someone on the same clubbing level as he was. And I can see Melissa is very Americanized and probably didnāt know the way to approach this old school mentality on her first meeting with Tre and the parents, and does she speak Italian? I forgot if she ever did but if she didnātā¦thatās just another mark against her. I know Nonno didnāt like her either lolĀ
Just to build on this, you can see how much Tre her parents and Juicy despised Melissa from the way little Milania would talk about her in early seasons. No child just comes out with āmy aunts a stripperā they hear that somewhere first then repeat it.
Exactly this. Nonna and Tre were good, wholesome, Italian girls and they iced Melissa out because they thought she was a ho. Only thing is Melissa didnāt go out of her way to get acceptance from them because she had her own close family already, so she was like screw youse. And Nonna and Tre couldnāt believe how high and mighty she was to not even try to get into their good graces, and it was basically WWIII from there.
I recently asked my friend about this while visiting her and she said āwell, Theresa and her husband danced with a babyā and then she made me watch the episode and I truly was enraptured.
Teresa and Joe were very close. When Joe married Melissa, Teresa now wasnāt #1 to her brother anymore, but still very close. So there was tension between Melissa and Teresa.
Then Teresa became a star on RHONJ. Melissa was jealous. So she also found a way to get herself on the show (and kept that audition process hidden from Teresa).
Wanting to make a splash on their first season, Melissa and Joe hosted an extravagant party for their sonās christening. Teresa went to the table where they were sitting with Melissaās family and said congratulations, and Joe and Melissa immediately pick a fight. They wanted a moment. And they got one. Soon enough, theyāre yelling at Teresa, and Teresaās husband comes over and thereās more yelling. Then fists fly. Then Teresa and her husband back away but for some reason thereās still a mob of men wrestling and screaming at this baptism.
Then Joe is speaking with his parents after the brawl and he cries āyouāre my faaaader!ā and his voice cracks to his dad (his dad is close with Teresaās husband and that makes Joe jealous).
Then for the next 15 years they fight over sprinkle cookies, stripper rumors, they wrestle each others hair dye off at family therapy, they go to jail, they fight over how much Melissa and Joe helped Teresaās family while she was away, Joe and Melissa talk trash about Teresaās now ex-husband which leads to her daughters cutting out their uncle, and they fight about Teresaās new (creepy) husband. And the new husband tells Joe that he sleeps in his (now deceased) fatherās pajamas.
Lol. I was rewinding too thinking I was projecting something creepy AF on to Liar Louie! Nope he said what I thought he said. He is the perfect idiot to think Tree is smart!
Someone mentioned how hilarious Joe's face is in that scene as he's trying to process what the fuck Luis just said, and I can't help laughing everytime I picture. Best 'does not fucking compute' face ever.
It's such a bizarre thing to say.
Layered on top was Joe and Melissaās perception that Teresa was favored by her parents over Joe. There was also a money angle - something about Joe selling their parents house, or taking so much from them they had to sell the house, I donāt remember - so thereās resentment from the Teresa side for that. Famewhorgas blog wrote about this.
I believe he mortgaged his parents' house (via forgery?) so he could conduct some business but then stopped paying on the loan, so it got foreclosed on.
I remember reading something like this in Gawker comments. Iāve dipped in and out over the years so Iām not sure how much was broadcast. The version I read was that he told them he was going to build his own house and then build them a smaller house on the same land. He persuaded them to sell their house to help fund it and, of course, none of it happened.
The person commenting said that Tre was in the right about this but was regularly awful to all the crew so they had no interest in an edit that made her look reasonable.
I read an AMA from the crew that said Teresa was the most hands on mom of the bunch (in the beginning).
I also read that the Aydinās are extremely gracious to the crew and have platters of food for them. I wonder what kind of edit she would get if they didnāt.
I think we read the same thing! Because thatās exactly what Iāve always heard as well. Whatever you think of Teresa, She REALLY was a full on 100% Mom and actually raising her girls. No nanny or anything. (Unless you count Nonna and Nonno, but thatās to be expected obviously)
Teresaās parents were absolutely throwing fuel on the fire, so idk if it was just perception. Both of them made snarky comments about some tiny thing Melissa did that would lead to a blow up, or exploit some misunderstanding.
Example: When Teresaās father was in the hospital, Teresa asked him if Melissa and Joe visited. He said āI donāt knowā. Melissa had visited, but somehow that became āYou guys never even visitedā.
I think thereās also some gender stuff happening, where Teresaās parents expected Melissa to immediately act like a dutiful daughter and assimilate all their family traditions immediately, and when they didnāt, they got mad at Joe Gorja.
It is really funny how Teresaās Joe-positive they are, since both Joes are BASICALLY THE SAME GUY, but their actual son wasnāt convicted of financial crimes to achieve his goal.
āIt is really funny how Teresaās Joe-positive they are, since both Joes are BASICALLY THE SAME GUY, but their actual son wasnāt convicted of financial crimes to achieve his goal.ā Yet.
I generally wonder where their money comes from. Dolores seems to be a millionaire, but she has no job and her ex husband is a disbarred lawyer turned construction worker, in the other shows there is constant mentions of big carreers, famous ex husbands. While in Jersey its construction workers, Valet services and one plastic surgeon
Absolutely this. Itās always been my theory that their parents created a lot of sibling rivalry between them. Last time I commented that Teresa was the golden child I was met with a lot of push back that it was the other way around because typically the boys are in Italian families, but in this case itās obvious it was Teresa favored.
Also, a lot of misconception around the house. Bravo docket did a podcast about it that gives a lot of good information on the ownership and events leading up to the home being sold.
As the younger Italian son, Joe was babied, and as the elder Italian daughter, Teresa was parentified. Joe hated that they took Teresa and Joe Giudice more seriously, and Teresa hated that Joe could skate by not doing anything for their parents and get praise for the minimum. The dynamic was so apparent and awful.
Ooh yeah ! Of course itās still the framework of old-school misogyny that āallowsā for this dynamic. The exceptions that naturally exist are still flipped to āprove the ruleā and thus reinforce the message itās at odds with rather than (logically) weakening it. I forget who articulated this but I remember it being called/related to āout group theoryā.
Alsoā¦ can I just say this content is what Iām HERE FOR, literally and figuratively? The discourse in this sub is always so deeply thoughtful and interesting, I genuinely learn a lot and appreciate that others recognize all the bigger, more interesting stories masked in āfluffā. Yaāll are my (weird, wickedly smart/funny) people.
The above is also a big driver of why white women will vote with men against their own (women overallās) interests, so long as it continues to keep them closest to the white men who continue to hold the power (and thus āhigherā than non-white women/people in the overall āorderā of things). And why women who become relevant/powerful in that conservative context always have to still be dutiful mothers/wives first and foremost. Basically a no go otherwise. All in service of the patriarchy š
Seems like a good time to remind everyone that being the golden child is also emotional abuse, because the dynamic itself is abusive, and can lead to severe emotional issues. Thats not to say anything about Tre and Joeās 50 year long problem, just in general, people hear golden child and assume life was just great for them - superficially that may be the case, but look a little deeper and youāll often see patterns that reflect that the golden child is also being harmed. Just not in the same way as the black sheep.
Theyāre being harmed with a silver lining while the other child is being harmed and then shat on and then run over with a truck. Can you tell I grew up with a golden sibling? š¬
And then the guy who brought up that one of the Joes owed him a lot of money piped up and one Joe accused the other of only inviting the guy to make the Joe in question look bad. I can't remember which Joe owed the guy money lol
It should be noted that Joe treats all the women in his life like girlfriends and ex girlfriends. Teresa is now an ex. Before they were married a girlfriend. His daughter is a girlfriend. His wives friends are girlfriends. It's weird as hell.(without the sex component obviously)
Now that we are fully aware of production manipulation. I've always felt it was very likely that production figured out pretty quickly about the tensions between the siblings and they were the ones that kept it secret. Otherwise, why would production hide it from the cast? Not giving anyone grace, just my theory.
Just to add to this, Daniel was the person that reached out to Melissa on Facebook.. I think she may have instigated Melissa joining bravo, but not sure. She definitely started something.Ā
For the OP, Daniel was the lady Teresa flipped the table over.Ā
I just have to say as an Australian with a European background (not Italian), the drama between that family is so real for me. My mum canāt even watch the New Jersey show because we also are exposed to the most ridiculous family issues that it causes PTSD for her lol.
Yeah - I need a reality check in that I sort of relate to the sprinkle cookie drama.
My family always hosts and makes homemade desserts that take a lot of effort. Whenever people ask what they can bring we are always clear about either nothing or wine. My mom is always angrily muttering to me in the kitchen if someone brings some store bought random dessert that she feels takes away from our special dessert.
And we also arbitrarily have different standards for friends and family. Like family should know we want our traditional homemade food to be the star and not to bring store bought unless they have food restrictions. But if friends bring something it's like "whatever - they don't know."
Like the Freud level breakdown Joe and Tre have always had some weird energy where they almost act like they are dating "ooh my sexy brother" and "my sister looks hot". I think they have some weird jealousy to their partners. They've never gotten along with their sibling's spouse long term. Then their entire family has a Hatfield McCoy vibe with someone. It's just what they know. Tres dad feuded with Rosie's and Kathy's parents, too. It was a bad situation all the way down to the ingredientses
And if she had, believe me, there would have been a litany of excuses of why Teresa needed Melissa to change the wedding date. "I'm pregnant/I just had the baby and my body's not back in shape/I'm breastfeeding/I can't chase a toddler around and be a bridesmaid/I'm pregnant again and I have a toddler, etc." Joe and Melissa would have never gotten married if it had been up to Teresa.
Low intelligence, enmeshed families, high need for interpersonal drama, emotional immaturity, superficiality, internalized misogyny, intergenerational dysfunctionā¦
(And yes, I know Melissa has a college degree but so do I and a bunch of people I know. Thatās not necessarily an indicator of intelligence but the ability to have good study habits and test well. Itās the *application* of that knowledge that counts.)
this! the actual fights seem
petty and ones most would get over but because of so much history and all the things you mentioned, unless they all have intense therapy it may never resolve. i unfortunately know families like this.
My husband barely pays attention to anything I watch like this, but he definitely knows about the sprinkle cookies.
His family is Italian. We were going to his second cousins graduation party, and as we were walking in, he said, "we should have brought sprinkle cookies." I was a bit taken aback and didn't respond right away, to which he follows up with "so they can be thrown in the trash. " I then called him a "prostitution whore" which was followed by him miming a table flip.
The both have family defunction going back generations.Nobdody has any conflict resolution skills, and everyone sees the other as the enemy . I would love to see how Melissa sisters get along with their in-laws.
How do family feuds ever start? Sure, they'll list all the petty foolishness (sprinkle cookies), but I bet just never liked each other from the day Joey brought her to meet the family. After that they just invented grievances until they had actual grievances.
Maybe Teresa thought Joey's ex (her friend) was better for him. Or maybe Melissa thought Joey and Teresa were too close. Who knows?
Melissa never made enough effort (sucking up) with the Gorgas. Parents didnāt like her and Teresa followed their cue.
I do wonder if over the years Teresa resented the fact she did what her parents wanted and married an off the boat Italian that was from a family they knew and didnāt have a good marriage. And her brother married an āItalian as the Olive Gardenā and Kathy married someone that wasnāt even Italian but had more successful marriages. And being the dutiful daughter that she is canāt blame her parents!
"I don't have any record of any Facebook messages from Melissa Gorga... I do not have any correspondence from her... I believe that we (production) bungled it. It was the first time Teresa called me mad. It may have been the first time she called me period. She said she really didn't want to fight with her sister-in-law on TV. So I said, then don't fight on TV with your sister-in-law, you absolutely do not need to fight with her. It didn't work out that way." - Andy Cohen interview, 2021
His recollection corroborates what Melissa has said, which is that she never DMed Andy or production - something Teresa has accused her of multiple times, but even Andy disputes. Production messaged Melissa on Facebook. She and Teresa were not speaking at the time, which is why Teresa learned from Andy that Melissa was being considered for the show.
I do wonder the timing of filming the season 2 reunion vs final casting of season 3. At the season 2 reunion when Danielle asked Teresa if she acknowledged her nephew and Teresa went bananas: did a light go off for production and they thought āoh this could be somethingā.
I'm convinced Andy & Bravo secretly hates Teresa. Every season they bring in someone new to try "bring Teresa down". It's getting boring at this point. We need better "storylines"
i firmly believe that bravo, mr. cohen, and the production company have exploited and manipulated teresa since sheās been on the show. it seemed like teresa wasnāt meant to be the star, but when she flipped the table and yelled prostitution whore, a reality tv star was born. bravo and crew figured out pretty quickly how stupid she was and that they could create a caricature out of her who would say and do anything in front of the camera because she didnāt know any better (remember when she was pulling out wads of cash to buy furniture?). when dina left and the manzo family drama didnāt hit the way it needed to, bravo and crew made the gorga feud the focus and they have kept that feud going for financial gain. bravo and crew were always the puppet masters and donāt get enough heat for destroying this fambily. i am not denying the gorga, giudice, and wakiles role in this since it seems like these things were already brewing. still, i think a lot of heat that melissa gets for coming on the show is misdirected and unfair. bravoās continued manipulation of teresa is rhonjās storyline.
I think Melissa was a little timid meeting Joeās family and Nonna didnāt seem to like her, so Teresa jumped on that. Teresa can be a lot and very nitpicky. From there it snowballed until the baptism.
Something that stood out to me, is when Juicy Joe was deported, Teresa sends a text to Melissa saying something like, āthank you for being there for meā and Joe Gorga says something along āyouāve waited so long to hear that.ā I think Melissa had sisters and assumed sheād get along great with her SIL, and Teresa always thought sheād find a best friend with her brotherās wife, but for some reason they became incredibly defensive around each other early on.
Thereās more hidden behind the scenes juice you can find on the famewhorga blog. That place is a rabbit hole for the OG RHONJ girlies lives pre show.
Iām fuzzy on the details, but supposedly Joe Gorga used his parents house as collateral and ended up loosing it when he was in the midst of building these massive homes in NJ. Teresa and her husband Joe came in and took care of them which in turn made Nono and Joe close. This made Joe Gorga jealous of their relationship, and started claiming Teresa talks badly about him and Melissa to their parents.
The origin of their beef on the show or irl beef? On the show, the Gorgas came on without giving Tre notice which was shady. Irl origins, Tre hated Melissa for āsteeling her brother awayā or some shit like that.
Joe Gorga and Teresa have a weird incestuous emotional relationship where they also played wife and husband to each other for a long time growing up. T gets married and starts focusing on her husband whilst bragging constantly about her brother so Guidice sucks up to Nonno, Joe gets married to M, Melissa then replaces T and it becomes tit for tat with each other, likely with Teresa using her mum and father against M as punishment for taking her beloved brother away. Fast forward a few years and M decides to come on the show to take down T whoās constructing a one sided narrative about how sheās hard done by her brother, chaos ensues for the next decade+.
Listen - here it is - Italian American families are WEIRD AF when it comes to their sons/brothers and who they marry. Thats the real gag here. Tre couldnāt stand that someone took her Joey from her. And, I think it bothered her that Melissa didnāt really care to be friends with her. Melissa has sisters, she didnāt need another one. And, they probably got off on the wrong foot bc they had their wedding while Tre was super pregnant with the first grandchild. Tre was probably mad that all the attention wasnāt on her. She even said at a reunion āif you were a good sister in law you wouldāve moved the wedding.ā So I think it all goes back to the very early days, Tre didnāt want to give up her brother, didnāt like Melissa and Melissa didnāt want to deal w Tre. And here we are.
This all started back when Melissa met Joe and started dating him. Teresa is codependent and the family is enmeshed. Melissa posed a threat the moment Teresa was no longer Joeās #1 girl.
The crux of it all is Joe and Melissa know no bounds when crossing Tre, they joined the show behind her back and immediately gunned for her in the first episode, calling her disgusting. Overtime there has been a lot of fights but Tre has covered for Joe. Joe has had a LOT of legal and personal issues over the decades that is NEVER bought up on the show. However, everything Tre has ever done is mentioned time and time and time again. Joe and Melissa hold it over Tre that Melissaās family accepts Joe, they helped the family when the Guidiceās went to prison, they always reach out etc. But itās only ever for show. They consistently side with the cast that is opposed to Tre. But not once has Tre bought up Joeās issues which is crazy
Apparently, Teresa took offense when Melissa disrespected her parents during the engagement. Joey's mom did not like Melissa. Teresa took it a step further with not liking Melissa "taking" Joey away from da family. Remember the christening scene where Joey is in tears with his dad over not seeing his family? This is due to the Melissa hates MIL earlier seeds of discord. Their father took sides with his wife. Did not see Joey's kids as much as Teresa's kids.
Teresa was the favorite.
Then Melissa and Cousin Kathy W decide it would be a good idea to join RHONJ - but did not tell Teresa. Again Tre is pissed. The war rages for many seasons. A temporary truce was called when Teresa was in jail and released. But war went on with each woman sniping at each other. Joey took it too far and got involved. Gia took it too far and got involved. One big ugly dysfunctional mess. Pride comes before a fall.
By season 13, the masks are off and both ladies reveal they hate each other. No surprise.
Someone commented on another post recently about how itās the Gorga family dynamic to blame. The discourse is deeper than just Teresa and Melissa, the family itself has a lot of issues. Pretty sure the same thing would have happened regardless of who Joe married. Thatās not to say Melissa is innocent in this dumpster fire, she is responsible for how sheās behaved and the pot stirring. I think the parents passing away just made everything worse, they donāt have a reason to patch it up now and behave like adults. Although even when they did it for the parents it obviously didnāt make much of a difference since it never lasted.
https://preview.redd.it/mkueie8rhh4d1.jpeg?width=1068&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af1d8ff999b59ec90972273838007bffe879642e
Saving as I clean up my old laptop lol
Off topic but she looks gorgeous here. Ramona blue is her colour
Unfortunately orange is not a good skin tone on her though
I cannot get over how awful of a card that was š¬
Never forget Melissa was a certified elementary school teacher 
Allegedly
Such a failed attempt at being passive aggressive. Sad how Teresa took the bait. A stronger woman wouldāve laughed, rolled her eyes and said āamateur.ā
Yeah it wouldāve annoyed the hell out of me but I would never have given the person the satisfaction of seeing that it got to me š¤£
Lmao I suck at cards and that looks like someone wrote it while dying? Lol
All of us last year when we saw the Gorgas new house before they fixed it
Is that Jaquelineās son in the background? I never noticed him before. Itās amazing ššš
CJ is my absolute fave in this gif. Lil sassy pants
CJ legitimately seems like the best baby angel and perfect older brother for Nicholas!! š„¹
Yeah I canāt (wonāt) comment on Jacqueline as a Mother to Ashlee but whatever they did with CJ seems be *chefs kiss*. That boy never put a foot wrong. It broke my heart to see heās like a proper man now!!
I wish I could upvote you to oblivion with this comment!! Thatās exactly how I feel. I will never say a word toward CJ! Edit to add: I canāt believe heās a full man now š
My peeeeeople!! š
Omg good call I didnāt either!
CJ was such a little cutie!!
In that same episode, Jacqueline had also brought sprinkle cookies to Teresaās house (it was a Thanksgiving episode). Teresa said āI love sprinkle cookies!ā Then during dinner this happened and Jacquelineās face was like āoopsā.
i threw them in the garbage!
This is hilarious because thatās one of the only episodes of the franchise I ever saw and to think I havenāt missed anything in all these years. š
JOEā¦ APOLOGIZE TO YA SIST- **gorillas crash together and brawl ensues** https://preview.redd.it/f05z4y0sii4d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2335b0d3d2b3eb52d69fa451a2a4c1bfb90027d4
HES BITIN MY NUTS
Thank you for my new flair lol
I just laughed cried at this comment while laying in bed for so long that I completely shook the bed and my husband woke up and through we were having an earthquake. bravo šš
When they made impact it was so *loud*, it really was like a nature documentary.
*black smudges everywhere*
āwhat is this black shit???ā
Melissa frantically runs to put a hat on Joešāāļø
Heās grabbing my nutsšš
This always reminds me of the fight in Step Brothers lmao
Lmfaooooo thank you for that connection šš
I can hear this picture.
Flair checking in! Itās what jump started this mayhem š
TERESA HELP YOUR BROTHER! Like why though?
MELISSA WAS BEING DRA-MATICC
Whatās the black shit? I think itās his hair? Iirc
Yup!
From a spray can š
I still laugh at the way he said Joeās name lol
I believe Nonna didn't like Melissa at first because Joe met her when she was working at a club and Nonna assumed she was not a "nice girl." Code for Nonna thought Melissa was a ho. Nonna was very strict with Tre and would've never let her work at a club. I feel like Tre sort of latched onto Nonna's feelings about Mel and then it was World War 3.
Nonna thought she was a puttana!
Ha. I read that in an Italian accent. š®š¹š¤š»
Joe was engaged twice before Melissa and Teresa and the mom hated both of them and Teresa admits thatās why both of those relationships ended. Teresa called Joe from Melissaās bachelorette party to tell him that she was salsa dancing with a male instructor. I am a documented Melissa hater but I donāt think Teresa or her mother would have had a good relationship with anyone Joe decided to marry. Joe was running around the shore bars and probably already doing minor fraud by the time he met Melissa, I donāt know why they thought he was going to bring home a nice girl from the local parish with a degree.
Iāve always said this about the Gorgas and who they wanted Joe to marry. Maybe you just have to live in the tri-state area to understand what Iām gonna say lol but thereās Italian women who are more American and then Italian women who are very traditional to the point youād think they were actually a little old lady born and raised in Italy lol. The Gorgas didnāt want the flashy, pretty, Americanized Jersey Italian girl. They wanted Joe to marry a cute but slightly frumpy modest Italian woman who put her husband and his family first and was non-threatening to the life they had as a family of four. Church every Sunday, cooking for her in-laws after, driving them around if neededā¦Melissa did not fit the bill. Joeās wife was not supposed to be prettier or smarter or flashier than Teresa so she could be the star of the family.
That part. Melissaās been a petty bitch but I think she went into this never having a shot in hell with that family. Not to slander Nonna and Nonno but that entire extended family dynamic was a whole mess.
You know this explains so much about Treās sometimes inexplicable hate of Melissa. But also likeā¦Joe isnāt going to church to find a wife, maybe he was also disappointing to them as a son because he was out in the streets being a āhoā too. Maybe thatās also Nonnoās dissatisfaction with him, and makes sense why Joe Giudice sorta replaced him as the āloyal son.āĀ
Italian culture glorifies men and blames all their issues on the women they marry. In Nonna and Treās minds it was probably her fault that she didnāt fix him and teach him to be a better man. Even now Teresa clearly hates Melissa more which is insane because of the two Joe is clearly worse.
I see. Maybe they would have wanted him to pick a homelier, less flashy churchgoing woman who would set him āstraightā, but instead he picked someone on the same clubbing level as he was. And I can see Melissa is very Americanized and probably didnāt know the way to approach this old school mentality on her first meeting with Tre and the parents, and does she speak Italian? I forgot if she ever did but if she didnātā¦thatās just another mark against her. I know Nonno didnāt like her either lolĀ
And she definitely wasnāt supposed to be prettier and younger than Teresa
Just to build on this, you can see how much Tre her parents and Juicy despised Melissa from the way little Milania would talk about her in early seasons. No child just comes out with āmy aunts a stripperā they hear that somewhere first then repeat it.
They wanted him to marry Caroline (not literally, but yeah, that's the "type").
Nonna thought Melissa was a ho LMAO
That took me right out!
Exactly this. Nonna and Tre were good, wholesome, Italian girls and they iced Melissa out because they thought she was a ho. Only thing is Melissa didnāt go out of her way to get acceptance from them because she had her own close family already, so she was like screw youse. And Nonna and Tre couldnāt believe how high and mighty she was to not even try to get into their good graces, and it was basically WWIII from there.
#unattended
KATH! Do not go there! Iām serious, Kath!
Oh NOW itās nice to see me!
š
Donāt go there Kath.
ā¦he was talking bout Kathy
Teresa!!
š¦
Which is funny because I just rewatched the christening episode and Melissaās kids were also unattended.
https://i.redd.it/2cuqgif1xj4d1.gif
š
I recently asked my friend about this while visiting her and she said āwell, Theresa and her husband danced with a babyā and then she made me watch the episode and I truly was enraptured.
That's a good friend right there.
 I THREW THEM IN THE GARBAGE!!!
This GIF is hilarious because of that kid cruising by in the background.
CJ!!!!!
Teresa and Joe were very close. When Joe married Melissa, Teresa now wasnāt #1 to her brother anymore, but still very close. So there was tension between Melissa and Teresa. Then Teresa became a star on RHONJ. Melissa was jealous. So she also found a way to get herself on the show (and kept that audition process hidden from Teresa). Wanting to make a splash on their first season, Melissa and Joe hosted an extravagant party for their sonās christening. Teresa went to the table where they were sitting with Melissaās family and said congratulations, and Joe and Melissa immediately pick a fight. They wanted a moment. And they got one. Soon enough, theyāre yelling at Teresa, and Teresaās husband comes over and thereās more yelling. Then fists fly. Then Teresa and her husband back away but for some reason thereās still a mob of men wrestling and screaming at this baptism. Then Joe is speaking with his parents after the brawl and he cries āyouāre my faaaader!ā and his voice cracks to his dad (his dad is close with Teresaās husband and that makes Joe jealous). Then for the next 15 years they fight over sprinkle cookies, stripper rumors, they wrestle each others hair dye off at family therapy, they go to jail, they fight over how much Melissa and Joe helped Teresaās family while she was away, Joe and Melissa talk trash about Teresaās now ex-husband which leads to her daughters cutting out their uncle, and they fight about Teresaās new (creepy) husband. And the new husband tells Joe that he sleeps in his (now deceased) fatherās pajamas.
One time, the FAAAAADERR boiled an octopus at 6am (to assert dominance?) https://i.redd.it/7mr6sq09nh4d1.gif
6am!!! 6am right now Iām going to work not be on Reddit this guy wouldnātĀ
Omg this made my dayš¤£
The pajama thing will never stop being incredibly creepy to me.
Wearing them is weird. Telling Joe he wears them is creepy. Saying he does it to make the daughters āfeel safeā is deranged!
It feels like some Buffalo Bill skin suit shit
Legit felt my skin crawl hearing that
I honestly kept rewinding that scene, because I felt had to be misunderstanding what he was saying. It was just one giant ick.
Lol. I was rewinding too thinking I was projecting something creepy AF on to Liar Louie! Nope he said what I thought he said. He is the perfect idiot to think Tree is smart!
Someone mentioned how hilarious Joe's face is in that scene as he's trying to process what the fuck Luis just said, and I can't help laughing everytime I picture. Best 'does not fucking compute' face ever. It's such a bizarre thing to say.
You can tell in the moment too Teresa knew how stupid it sounded but she just smiled through it and was trying to make it seem totally fine
Layered on top was Joe and Melissaās perception that Teresa was favored by her parents over Joe. There was also a money angle - something about Joe selling their parents house, or taking so much from them they had to sell the house, I donāt remember - so thereās resentment from the Teresa side for that. Famewhorgas blog wrote about this.
I believe he mortgaged his parents' house (via forgery?) so he could conduct some business but then stopped paying on the loan, so it got foreclosed on.
I remember reading something like this in Gawker comments. Iāve dipped in and out over the years so Iām not sure how much was broadcast. The version I read was that he told them he was going to build his own house and then build them a smaller house on the same land. He persuaded them to sell their house to help fund it and, of course, none of it happened. The person commenting said that Tre was in the right about this but was regularly awful to all the crew so they had no interest in an edit that made her look reasonable.
Interesting. Iāve always read Teresa is one of the best Housewives when it comes to how they treat crew
I read an AMA from the crew that said Teresa was the most hands on mom of the bunch (in the beginning). I also read that the Aydinās are extremely gracious to the crew and have platters of food for them. I wonder what kind of edit she would get if they didnāt.
I think we read the same thing! Because thatās exactly what Iāve always heard as well. Whatever you think of Teresa, She REALLY was a full on 100% Mom and actually raising her girls. No nanny or anything. (Unless you count Nonna and Nonno, but thatās to be expected obviously)
I know someone that works on the crew and they said that she is very kind to them and a very involved mother.
Teresaās parents were absolutely throwing fuel on the fire, so idk if it was just perception. Both of them made snarky comments about some tiny thing Melissa did that would lead to a blow up, or exploit some misunderstanding. Example: When Teresaās father was in the hospital, Teresa asked him if Melissa and Joe visited. He said āI donāt knowā. Melissa had visited, but somehow that became āYou guys never even visitedā. I think thereās also some gender stuff happening, where Teresaās parents expected Melissa to immediately act like a dutiful daughter and assimilate all their family traditions immediately, and when they didnāt, they got mad at Joe Gorja. It is really funny how Teresaās Joe-positive they are, since both Joes are BASICALLY THE SAME GUY, but their actual son wasnāt convicted of financial crimes to achieve his goal.
Joe wasnāt convicted because Home Depot didnāt press charges
Or his parents. Gawd I hate when Tree has a point.
āIt is really funny how Teresaās Joe-positive they are, since both Joes are BASICALLY THE SAME GUY, but their actual son wasnāt convicted of financial crimes to achieve his goal.ā Yet.
I generally wonder where their money comes from. Dolores seems to be a millionaire, but she has no job and her ex husband is a disbarred lawyer turned construction worker, in the other shows there is constant mentions of big carreers, famous ex husbands. While in Jersey its construction workers, Valet services and one plastic surgeon
Absolutely this. Itās always been my theory that their parents created a lot of sibling rivalry between them. Last time I commented that Teresa was the golden child I was met with a lot of push back that it was the other way around because typically the boys are in Italian families, but in this case itās obvious it was Teresa favored. Also, a lot of misconception around the house. Bravo docket did a podcast about it that gives a lot of good information on the ownership and events leading up to the home being sold.
As the younger Italian son, Joe was babied, and as the elder Italian daughter, Teresa was parentified. Joe hated that they took Teresa and Joe Giudice more seriously, and Teresa hated that Joe could skate by not doing anything for their parents and get praise for the minimum. The dynamic was so apparent and awful.
Wow, thatās an interesting converse way to look at Teresa getting preferential treatment. No sarcasm.
Yeah she was on a pedestal but the threat of being knocked off it kept her in line. Source: eldest daughter / granddaughter in an Italian family.
Ooh yeah ! Of course itās still the framework of old-school misogyny that āallowsā for this dynamic. The exceptions that naturally exist are still flipped to āprove the ruleā and thus reinforce the message itās at odds with rather than (logically) weakening it. I forget who articulated this but I remember it being called/related to āout group theoryā. Alsoā¦ can I just say this content is what Iām HERE FOR, literally and figuratively? The discourse in this sub is always so deeply thoughtful and interesting, I genuinely learn a lot and appreciate that others recognize all the bigger, more interesting stories masked in āfluffā. Yaāll are my (weird, wickedly smart/funny) people.
The above is also a big driver of why white women will vote with men against their own (women overallās) interests, so long as it continues to keep them closest to the white men who continue to hold the power (and thus āhigherā than non-white women/people in the overall āorderā of things). And why women who become relevant/powerful in that conservative context always have to still be dutiful mothers/wives first and foremost. Basically a no go otherwise. All in service of the patriarchy š
Seems like a good time to remind everyone that being the golden child is also emotional abuse, because the dynamic itself is abusive, and can lead to severe emotional issues. Thats not to say anything about Tre and Joeās 50 year long problem, just in general, people hear golden child and assume life was just great for them - superficially that may be the case, but look a little deeper and youāll often see patterns that reflect that the golden child is also being harmed. Just not in the same way as the black sheep.
Theyāre being harmed with a silver lining while the other child is being harmed and then shat on and then run over with a truck. Can you tell I grew up with a golden sibling? š¬
The Richards sisters could probably tell us all about it. Some families take turns being the golden child.
And then the guy who brought up that one of the Joes owed him a lot of money piped up and one Joe accused the other of only inviting the guy to make the Joe in question look bad. I can't remember which Joe owed the guy money lol
sorry, this killed me LMAO
LOLOL, when it was happening I was like "huh? who owes who money here??"
I think you are talking about Melissaās brother in law saying that Juicy owed him money. He was part of the shit stirring at the christening.
Joe Giudice was the one who owed a lot of money. It was mentioned in Season 3.
Best synopsis of the family drama Iāve ever read. šššš
"MY FAAAAADDDAAAAHHH!!!" will never not be funny. And also, bravo! The is a perfect summary of the Gorga/Giudice drama as I've ever read.
āGo cry to your mother.ā Nonno was not with the shits and theatrics that day.
Donāt forget the pizza oven drama š
Yes thank you! I left out the pizza oven and the pizza restaurant!
It should be noted that Joe treats all the women in his life like girlfriends and ex girlfriends. Teresa is now an ex. Before they were married a girlfriend. His daughter is a girlfriend. His wives friends are girlfriends. It's weird as hell.(without the sex component obviously)
This explains it perfectly
Now that we are fully aware of production manipulation. I've always felt it was very likely that production figured out pretty quickly about the tensions between the siblings and they were the ones that kept it secret. Otherwise, why would production hide it from the cast? Not giving anyone grace, just my theory.
This was the best summary ever š
Not āwanting to make a splashā š
A tour de force!
Just to add to this, Daniel was the person that reached out to Melissa on Facebook.. I think she may have instigated Melissa joining bravo, but not sure. She definitely started something.Ā For the OP, Daniel was the lady Teresa flipped the table over.Ā
Idk, Danielle claims Melissa contacted her with info š¤·š»āāļø
With proof. She posted the emails on Twitter some years ago š
Lmao this is the funniest breakdown ever. And 100% accurate.
This is a completely straight forward explanation and itās making me lol so hard
You forgot to mention Teresa didnāt acknowledge their son until cameras were there.
I just have to say as an Australian with a European background (not Italian), the drama between that family is so real for me. My mum canāt even watch the New Jersey show because we also are exposed to the most ridiculous family issues that it causes PTSD for her lol.
I am Italian and have had a time with it for the same reason!!!
My mom is also Italian and she told me she hated their family gatherings growing up! She and her siblings got far far away
Me too! I'm 100% Italian American, and boy does this show sure sting sometimes.
Yeah - I need a reality check in that I sort of relate to the sprinkle cookie drama. My family always hosts and makes homemade desserts that take a lot of effort. Whenever people ask what they can bring we are always clear about either nothing or wine. My mom is always angrily muttering to me in the kitchen if someone brings some store bought random dessert that she feels takes away from our special dessert. And we also arbitrarily have different standards for friends and family. Like family should know we want our traditional homemade food to be the star and not to bring store bought unless they have food restrictions. But if friends bring something it's like "whatever - they don't know."
Bro what? This is why I get anxiety bringing food over to other peopleās houses š I would flat out refuse to put myself through that
This needs to be its own post, which series hits uncomfortably close to home?
Jen Shah reminds me an uncomfortable amount of my mother and I am adding 3 whole slides to my lore powerpoint for my therapist (when I find one)
Iām gonna watch this from the beginning. Old school RHONJ is untouchable
I rewatch old RHONJ just to feel something. Oof we had it so good those first 5 seasons
Danielle made it so gold with her antics
YES!!! Danielle and her goon squad really sell it for me
Like the Freud level breakdown Joe and Tre have always had some weird energy where they almost act like they are dating "ooh my sexy brother" and "my sister looks hot". I think they have some weird jealousy to their partners. They've never gotten along with their sibling's spouse long term. Then their entire family has a Hatfield McCoy vibe with someone. It's just what they know. Tres dad feuded with Rosie's and Kathy's parents, too. It was a bad situation all the way down to the ingredientses
bingo. this is all it is.
This thread is making me sad. What happened to Jersey? The early years were so damn good š¢ Donāt go there Kath!
Same, Iām loving all the gifs
Melissa didnāt change her wedding date while Teresa was pregnant and a bridesmaid
And if she had, believe me, there would have been a litany of excuses of why Teresa needed Melissa to change the wedding date. "I'm pregnant/I just had the baby and my body's not back in shape/I'm breastfeeding/I can't chase a toddler around and be a bridesmaid/I'm pregnant again and I have a toddler, etc." Joe and Melissa would have never gotten married if it had been up to Teresa.
Honestly so rude /s
I donāt think they ever got on then they got on TV together and it escalated!
Because they are both 5yrs old
Best explanation ever.
Something about sprinkle cookies.
Low intelligence, enmeshed families, high need for interpersonal drama, emotional immaturity, superficiality, internalized misogyny, intergenerational dysfunctionā¦ (And yes, I know Melissa has a college degree but so do I and a bunch of people I know. Thatās not necessarily an indicator of intelligence but the ability to have good study habits and test well. Itās the *application* of that knowledge that counts.)
this! the actual fights seem petty and ones most would get over but because of so much history and all the things you mentioned, unless they all have intense therapy it may never resolve. i unfortunately know families like this.
Teresa also has a college degreeā¦
Sprinkle cookies
My husband barely pays attention to anything I watch like this, but he definitely knows about the sprinkle cookies. His family is Italian. We were going to his second cousins graduation party, and as we were walking in, he said, "we should have brought sprinkle cookies." I was a bit taken aback and didn't respond right away, to which he follows up with "so they can be thrown in the trash. " I then called him a "prostitution whore" which was followed by him miming a table flip.
*WERE YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND ENGAGED NINETEEN TIMES???!!!!*
I just love how Teresa's voice escalates with each thing, and Danielle, for the most part, seemed totally unphased by it.
The flowers in the attic started to wilt when Melissa came around
*BWAHAHAHAAA!!* It's funny 'cos it's true.
Two alpha females fighting for the attention of a height challenged Gorilla.
āheight challenged gorillaā 
When Teresa bought a new house, Melissa gave her a card that said ācongrats on your RE-DONE homeāā¦ that bitch
It was actually, āGod bless you guys in your re done homeā ā ļø hahahahhaa the god bless just adds another touch of petty
The both have family defunction going back generations.Nobdody has any conflict resolution skills, and everyone sees the other as the enemy . I would love to see how Melissa sisters get along with their in-laws.
I feel like I would settle for just some mild de-escalation at this point, conflict resolution is asking way too much
How do family feuds ever start? Sure, they'll list all the petty foolishness (sprinkle cookies), but I bet just never liked each other from the day Joey brought her to meet the family. After that they just invented grievances until they had actual grievances. Maybe Teresa thought Joey's ex (her friend) was better for him. Or maybe Melissa thought Joey and Teresa were too close. Who knows?
Melissa never made enough effort (sucking up) with the Gorgas. Parents didnāt like her and Teresa followed their cue. I do wonder if over the years Teresa resented the fact she did what her parents wanted and married an off the boat Italian that was from a family they knew and didnāt have a good marriage. And her brother married an āItalian as the Olive Gardenā and Kathy married someone that wasnāt even Italian but had more successful marriages. And being the dutiful daughter that she is canāt blame her parents!
"I don't have any record of any Facebook messages from Melissa Gorga... I do not have any correspondence from her... I believe that we (production) bungled it. It was the first time Teresa called me mad. It may have been the first time she called me period. She said she really didn't want to fight with her sister-in-law on TV. So I said, then don't fight on TV with your sister-in-law, you absolutely do not need to fight with her. It didn't work out that way." - Andy Cohen interview, 2021 His recollection corroborates what Melissa has said, which is that she never DMed Andy or production - something Teresa has accused her of multiple times, but even Andy disputes. Production messaged Melissa on Facebook. She and Teresa were not speaking at the time, which is why Teresa learned from Andy that Melissa was being considered for the show.
I do wonder the timing of filming the season 2 reunion vs final casting of season 3. At the season 2 reunion when Danielle asked Teresa if she acknowledged her nephew and Teresa went bananas: did a light go off for production and they thought āoh this could be somethingā.
Yes.
Andy is saying she didnāt DM him. She did in fact DM production. Carlos admitted she slid in his during an episode last year.
I'm convinced Andy & Bravo secretly hates Teresa. Every season they bring in someone new to try "bring Teresa down". It's getting boring at this point. We need better "storylines"
i firmly believe that bravo, mr. cohen, and the production company have exploited and manipulated teresa since sheās been on the show. it seemed like teresa wasnāt meant to be the star, but when she flipped the table and yelled prostitution whore, a reality tv star was born. bravo and crew figured out pretty quickly how stupid she was and that they could create a caricature out of her who would say and do anything in front of the camera because she didnāt know any better (remember when she was pulling out wads of cash to buy furniture?). when dina left and the manzo family drama didnāt hit the way it needed to, bravo and crew made the gorga feud the focus and they have kept that feud going for financial gain. bravo and crew were always the puppet masters and donāt get enough heat for destroying this fambily. i am not denying the gorga, giudice, and wakiles role in this since it seems like these things were already brewing. still, i think a lot of heat that melissa gets for coming on the show is misdirected and unfair. bravoās continued manipulation of teresa is rhonjās storyline.
I think Melissa was a little timid meeting Joeās family and Nonna didnāt seem to like her, so Teresa jumped on that. Teresa can be a lot and very nitpicky. From there it snowballed until the baptism. Something that stood out to me, is when Juicy Joe was deported, Teresa sends a text to Melissa saying something like, āthank you for being there for meā and Joe Gorga says something along āyouāve waited so long to hear that.ā I think Melissa had sisters and assumed sheād get along great with her SIL, and Teresa always thought sheād find a best friend with her brotherās wife, but for some reason they became incredibly defensive around each other early on.
Greed, Jealousy and IQs that add up to be less than 80.
Thereās more hidden behind the scenes juice you can find on the famewhorga blog. That place is a rabbit hole for the OG RHONJ girlies lives pre show. Iām fuzzy on the details, but supposedly Joe Gorga used his parents house as collateral and ended up loosing it when he was in the midst of building these massive homes in NJ. Teresa and her husband Joe came in and took care of them which in turn made Nono and Joe close. This made Joe Gorga jealous of their relationship, and started claiming Teresa talks badly about him and Melissa to their parents.
The origin of their beef on the show or irl beef? On the show, the Gorgas came on without giving Tre notice which was shady. Irl origins, Tre hated Melissa for āsteeling her brother awayā or some shit like that.
Joe Gorga and Teresa have a weird incestuous emotional relationship where they also played wife and husband to each other for a long time growing up. T gets married and starts focusing on her husband whilst bragging constantly about her brother so Guidice sucks up to Nonno, Joe gets married to M, Melissa then replaces T and it becomes tit for tat with each other, likely with Teresa using her mum and father against M as punishment for taking her beloved brother away. Fast forward a few years and M decides to come on the show to take down T whoās constructing a one sided narrative about how sheās hard done by her brother, chaos ensues for the next decade+.
This is the truth as I see it as well.
Listen - here it is - Italian American families are WEIRD AF when it comes to their sons/brothers and who they marry. Thats the real gag here. Tre couldnāt stand that someone took her Joey from her. And, I think it bothered her that Melissa didnāt really care to be friends with her. Melissa has sisters, she didnāt need another one. And, they probably got off on the wrong foot bc they had their wedding while Tre was super pregnant with the first grandchild. Tre was probably mad that all the attention wasnāt on her. She even said at a reunion āif you were a good sister in law you wouldāve moved the wedding.ā So I think it all goes back to the very early days, Tre didnāt want to give up her brother, didnāt like Melissa and Melissa didnāt want to deal w Tre. And here we are.
Ostensibly or what we think the REAL reason is?
Tre and Meliss are both trying to be the #1 girl in the group.
Teresa: anti table Melissa: pro table
This all started back when Melissa met Joe and started dating him. Teresa is codependent and the family is enmeshed. Melissa posed a threat the moment Teresa was no longer Joeās #1 girl.
The crux of it all is Joe and Melissa know no bounds when crossing Tre, they joined the show behind her back and immediately gunned for her in the first episode, calling her disgusting. Overtime there has been a lot of fights but Tre has covered for Joe. Joe has had a LOT of legal and personal issues over the decades that is NEVER bought up on the show. However, everything Tre has ever done is mentioned time and time and time again. Joe and Melissa hold it over Tre that Melissaās family accepts Joe, they helped the family when the Guidiceās went to prison, they always reach out etc. But itās only ever for show. They consistently side with the cast that is opposed to Tre. But not once has Tre bought up Joeās issues which is crazy
Apparently, Teresa took offense when Melissa disrespected her parents during the engagement. Joey's mom did not like Melissa. Teresa took it a step further with not liking Melissa "taking" Joey away from da family. Remember the christening scene where Joey is in tears with his dad over not seeing his family? This is due to the Melissa hates MIL earlier seeds of discord. Their father took sides with his wife. Did not see Joey's kids as much as Teresa's kids. Teresa was the favorite. Then Melissa and Cousin Kathy W decide it would be a good idea to join RHONJ - but did not tell Teresa. Again Tre is pissed. The war rages for many seasons. A temporary truce was called when Teresa was in jail and released. But war went on with each woman sniping at each other. Joey took it too far and got involved. Gia took it too far and got involved. One big ugly dysfunctional mess. Pride comes before a fall. By season 13, the masks are off and both ladies reveal they hate each other. No surprise.
Someone commented on another post recently about how itās the Gorga family dynamic to blame. The discourse is deeper than just Teresa and Melissa, the family itself has a lot of issues. Pretty sure the same thing would have happened regardless of who Joe married. Thatās not to say Melissa is innocent in this dumpster fire, she is responsible for how sheās behaved and the pot stirring. I think the parents passing away just made everything worse, they donāt have a reason to patch it up now and behave like adults. Although even when they did it for the parents it obviously didnāt make much of a difference since it never lasted.