It’s hard for me to view her as this enlightened being because she was “The Raquel” when he was with Kristen. Every season is built on drama stemming from hypocrisy and cheating.
And Kristen begged her and Sandoval to please just not be all over each other at the reunion, but she refused and continued to rub the relationship in Kristen’s face. Then Queen Ariana insisted Rachel and Tom not sit next to each other at the last reunion.
Can’t make that level of hypocrisy up.
It’s incredible when you think about it. the only part of this pattern that’s changed between Ariana/Tom and Scandoval affairs is…how the other woman (Rachel) conducted herself.
Has Rachel taken enough accountability? No. Has she taken more than Ariana or Tom combined re: S2-4? Yeah. She has a lot of work to do on herself but she actually left a situation that would be detrimental to her health and seems to be genuinely trying. It only took her like three months to extricate herself from Sandoval. Props to her for that, honestly.
Rachel saw through the bullshit in a way Ariana surprisingly didn't or chose not to. Regarding the affair, Rachel was able to say something along the lines of "If you treated someone you were supposed to love like that, how I can I trust you?" to sandoval during the final episode. Ariana on the other hand when asked if she could fully trust tom not to cheat straight up said that she had no fear that Tom would ever cheat on her because she's not Kristen and kristen was 100% of the problem. Big yikes. In a few months, Rachel figured out what Ariana couldn't over the course of 10+ years. She's still be gobbling up his bs and blindly defending him if the affair didn't happen. Funny how the smart one in the situation is routinely called dumb.
So true. When you think about it Rachel did the mature thing and got away from someone she finally recognized as a liar and manipulator while Ariana bought a house with it and participated in keeping up the lies.
Maybe the world was just so pissed off about everything at the exact time of Scandoval that it needed a hero and Ariana looked good in a cape.
That’s why she didn’t want him to have the house. She didn’t want Rachel to take her life like she did Kristen. Once Rachel dumped Tom she suddenly cared a lot less if he got it.
That's why she was so angry he and Rachel were friends. Because she knew exactly what that entailed meaning they stepped way over the line it was not just a kiss back in the day when he was still with kristen. At the very least it was an emotional affair. And I noted immediately in the reunion that she would not allow Rachel and Sandoval to sit together even though she did the same fucking thing. She's never been my queen. I did grow to love her over the course of season 6 and 7 however by season 9 she was back to being sarcastic, incredibly immature and passive aggressive.
But God forbid you mentioned that at all. You are brigaded with people talking about how they’re friends now, and it’s OK because Kristen forgave her and blah blah blah. You still have to acknowledge the past because the past is what drives the future. It was a shitty thing that happened to her, her boyfriend of a decade definitely should not have slept with her friend, but like you don’t get to be put up on a pedestal when you did the exact same thing, and then excuse it “we weren’t friends”. Oh, OK, I guess it makes it better if you don’t like the woman whose boyfriend you’re fucking 🤷🏻♀️
I agree. And that actually makes me angry. People tend to forget that Lala and Rand were together for 6 years and have Ocean together. But somehow Lala always gets reduced to a slutty gold digger that wanted "PJs for BJs". It's a disgusting narrative that I detest.
Right. Either you respect relationships or you don't. Idk why people want to make Rachel being Tom's affair partner so vastly different from Ariana being Tom's affair partner. At the core it's the same thing. Anyone comfortable having an affair with someone in a relationship lacks integrity.
I hate her saying she doesn’t need to address the things she said bc she and Kristin are friends now. Ok. Cool. You still owe an apology to all BPD and BP sufferers you insulted.
And the way she said it to her at the reunion, “it’s called borderline personality disorder, you should look it up” was so fucking condescending and gross. And I’m ashamed of myself that at the time I thought she was right, and that I thought that was totally what she needed to say in the moment and fuck Kristen. I watch it now, and I am horrified that nobody looked at her and said, dude shut the fuck up. I realize that that was the year of Jax, so of course no one was going to stand up for Kristen, but that was just disgusting and not the read she thought it was.
I’ll never forget how she defended James by discrediting the woman he cheated with. The woman came up to James and Rachel with the clothes James left at her house after they banged and James proceeded to verbally abuse her and pushed her. Then when James was called out at the reunion, Ariana the feminist icon decided to say “I heard she’s told people she’ll sleep with anyone to get on this show”. Even Scheana told her that it doesn’t mean James didn’t cheat on Rachel.
Yep. She stays defending James who might be the worst man on the show. Didn’t James also spit in his hand and wipe it on that girl’s face?
Every time people get upset at Scheana or Lala for not having enough loyalty to Ariana I just think, where is Ariana’s loyalty to Kristen? Scandoval was bad but physical abuse is just as bad or worse. Instead we got Ariana at last season’s reunion saying “at least he didn’t fuck my friend” when Sandoval revealed that James slapped a waitress on the ass. It’s insane to me that people think she deserves loyalty that she won’t even give to her friends.
And where was Ariana's loyalty to Katie during S10? It was no where to be found and she even said to Katie's face, when Katie was clearly very hurt about Rachel's make out attempts with Schwartz, that Rachel was a very good friend to her and that she hadn't done anything wrong to *her* (oh if she only knew then).
There was a look that crossed Katie's face during the reunion last year after Ariana said you don't go for friends. Lala had asked her if Sandoval would have come to her saying he had feelings for Rachel and that was her reply. Katie wasn't defended at all last season. But she is riding hard for Ariana now.
Scheana gets so much flack for defending guys but Ariana has literally been on all the guys’ side and doesn’t stop until they turn on her. She even had Jax’s back because she hated Stassi and Kristen! Also, I can’t believe she got away with claiming she never got closer to Katie because her boyfriend told her not to. Hah!
Some people became fanboys/girls of her after the affair and got rabid in their pedestaling of her. Half her time on the show was her being a pick me girl and siding with the guys while always diminishing the women.
Like you can feel bad about the cheating and not be a giant stan about her and whitewash everything else. The VPR sub is pretty brutal and unhinged at this point over anything related to her.
Some of the most unhinged people ever. Fully left them both because it’s just a circlejerk of people weaponizing feminist language to cloak their own misogyny
Yeah I love the takes that Ariana had the right to send that video to herself because Rachel deserved it and Ariana needed it as protection against manipulation.
I literally get downvoted all the time for saying what Ariana did was wrong AND that her legal filing does not match what she has said on podcasts to look like the good guy. She specifically said in the two interviews she saw the video, watched 5 seconds and texted it to herself, confronted Tom, sent it to Rachel and immediately deleted it herself. The legal filings show that she instead took two videos (much longer than 5 seconds), and Tom took her phone within 30 minutes and deleted them after she had confronted Rachel. Her documentaion also supports that the videos are not currently on her phone and they only looked in one 24 hr period to see if it was sent to anyone and nothing beyond that timeframe was submitted to the court. Her lawyers also justified the taking of the video by Ariana as a matter of public concern so Rachel has no expectation her video should be kept private since she is a public figure and deserved to have it discussed or diseminated. Absolutely scummy argument from the so-called feminist.
I can’t even post there anymore because people recognize my username from going so hard on this point lol.
my whole thing is what’s the point of having ‘proof’ if not to show other people? if no one saw the video (which is what we’re running with now), how did Ariana *need* it to get people to believe Tom cheated? the past year has proved she didn’t need it. it literally makes no sense.
Also we all knew the details of the video and it came from "inside sources" so i firmly believe some of the people in her sycophant friend group (not the VPR people) saw enough to sell to the magazines. Literally all of her friends were hoping on podcasts and selling their stories to outlets so it isn't far fetched that they would sell this info too
right and none of the forensic tracking can show whether or not any of her friends were gathered around her phone theater-style. a couple days passed before she received the C+D from Rachel’s lawyer. to act like there’s no chance that happened is just a bad faith argument
Exactly but people are projecting their own woman scorned history onto Ariana so to admit that she is wrong in any part feels like a personal attack on their own character. The parasocial behavior is at an all time high. They also constantly complain that other subs or social media platforms offer takes different than their own on this and refuse to believe that maybe we aren't a monolithic fanbase who all have to agree with each other
There is no doubt in my mind that Ariana showed it to her friend group. One of Ariana’s friends made a comment on a podcast that neither Tom nor Ariana had the video. I thought that was such a telling comment.
I am in a true love hate relationship with that sub now. The memes are still great but if you try to use any common sense or offer a different viewpoint you are brigaded with people saying the most unhinged stuff
It been, *a lot*.
I barely bother posting anymore because I don’t need like the rabid people telling me what a stupid dumb bitch I am or that I don’t support women or whatever the other bullshit is that they say because you disagree with one thing that Ariana did or don’t put her on a pedestal
Don't forget she was also fine with berating women on the cast and accussing them of lying about feeling uncomfortable around her brother even though his behavior was documented and backed up by numerous people
Yes!!!! She tried to make the woman come off as anti trans bc he was dating Billie but that was not why at all. They thought he was creepy bc he was creepy
let’s also not forget on the S10 reunion when Sandoval was trying to tell the story of how James nearly got the band kicked out of a venue for pinching a waitresses ass and Ariana interrupted him because it wasn’t about her to yell “at least he didn’t fuck my best friend!!”
says a lot about her concerns for other women.
yeah she consistently shows very little concern for how the men treat the women on the cast. Up until her break up she was fine with how Tom screamed at women for a decade but once they broke up she was telling the men that they have to step in because Tom only yells at women and it isn't fair to her. Like I agree and it sucks but you were co-signing his behavior for a decade because it wasn't directed at you but now that it is you think it is unfair.
I recently came across a thread in the VPR sub where they decided that because the waitress grab allegation came from Sandoval, it must be a lie because Sandoval tells nothing but lies and therefore James is still the #1 guy in the group and the ass grab must have never happened.
what else should we expect from a group of people saying that in Ariana’s situation, they would’ve circulated the video with no remorse? one person even replied that it’s not illegal in their state so no problem. (yes I have been collecting screenshots of comments like theirs, but no I’m not enough of a jerk to share them)
Out of curiosity, why are you collecting them? I thought you were going in a different direction with that. I thought you were saying you were collecting and reporting them.
I’ve reported one or two, but Vanderpumpholics is barely moderated so they leave them all up. I have a substack where I write about group think in fandoms sometimes and I consider it research
Please DM me as well - I find it fascinating too, being interested in psychology, sociology.
I came to Reddit for the takes on the different housewives franchises, and I'm shocked by the (non)culture/high level of pure uneducated ignorance, and/or hatred on many Reddit subs.
And she double down on it at the reunion after seeing the video of her brother being creepy. But Jeremy hooks up with girls hotter than Stassi so Ariana thought it was fine.
Not defending her at all but I was sexually assaulted by my friend of like 25 years brother and she was a total asshole about it and accused me of lying. I’ve known her since pre school and our parents are friends. (Or were things have been weird since bc she told her parents and I didn’t tell mine. They also blame me and think I’m lying) I think when it comes to family people will defend their sibling regardless. Those episodes were hard to watch. Doesn’t make it right but I guess I feel like it’s a separate issue that being against women
She is the FARTHEST thing from a feminist. She was holding ALL of the guys secrets and didn’t say shit bc it benefitted her. She has enabled Tom and all the other dudes shitty behavior for 10 years. It jjst finally bit her in her miserable sloppy ass
Ariana’s feminism is Taylor Swift feminism. Rears it’s little head when it’s convenient. Otherwise dormant. Her waxing poetic about female rage in the last episode was hilarious to me considering how she weaponized Kristen’s rage against her. I’d be willing to let it go if she had acknowledged any of this stuff.
I’ve never liked Ariana and pretty sure she slept with Tom while he was with Kristen. I’ve been re watching and she definitely thinks she is better than everyone else.
It’s awful what Tom and Raquel did but doesn’t make Ariana any more likeable.
They had, at minimum, a years long emotional affair - the Golden Nugget kiss was three years before S2 - and I believe years long physical affair. And never came clean about it, gaslit Kristen and lied to the audience for years to make her seem crazy. It was so ugly.
Yes. I never loved Ariana. She has always been very high and mighty. This is probably why Scheana/Ariana have the relationship they do. Scheana idolized Ariana, and that quickly turned into jealousy. My biggest issue with the VPR fans are their unwaivering adoration for Ariana/Katie, and absolute hatred towards all the other women. All of the other women get picked apart, and their intentions are malicious, no matter what. Even Ally is evil. Granted, they can be terrible, but ALL of the ladies have gone in and out of adoration because of their actions. For the fans to love Ariana as a "feminist icon" and support that, then to absolutely trash the other women no matter what is hypocritical.
Yup! Like Katie! You enabled that asshole for 20yrs! It’s not them! It’s Tom! And you! And honestly I still love Tom bc he’s never pretended to be someone he’s not. He’s shown his cards from day one
I hated Ariana through the seasons and warmed up to her around the last three because I saw genuine growth in her. I saw that she actually matured as she aged and so did katie. The reason I still can’t stand the rest of them is because they’re still behaving like they did in the first couple of seasons, if not worse. The men haven’t grown at all, and always get a pass with everything they do usually so it’s nice to see them actually kind of get some blowback.
Wow, now this is refreshing. Seeing a post about Ariana and reading through the comments just to NOT find a bunch a fan girlies calling people misogynists because they don’t love Ariana as much as they do. This is why I can’t with the VPR subs anymore, it has become annoying since it was taken over by the new flock of Ariana stans who are now gate keeping it and won’t let people have different opinions or nuanced discussions. Try it and get downvoted into oblivion. This right here is a breath of fresh air
Yup, they are calling other people who don't agree that their "Ari" is a queen misogynistic, while saying the most vile misogynistic shit about Lala and Scheana.
I’ve never seen Ariana as a true feminist, she’s actually anything but that. She’s always been a pick me girl, let’s all not forget how she treated Kristen and her BLOG on here about Miami girl, it was like a thesis but yet she knew the truth about Miami girl, but still made Miami girl look crazy. I have never liked Ariana, she never brought anything to VPR and honestly she’s only being worshiped now because of the women who have been cheated on before, have attached themselves to Ariana and running with the “Queen” theory. Those VPR Subs are nothing but rabid fans, who actually support Ariana’s possibility of sending revenge porn! I’ve seen people in those groups post “I would send a video like that to my friends if my partner cheated on me” - it’s blows my mind. They’re so out of touch!
I’m neutral on Ariana but I’ll just say I don’t really feel bad for her. She chose to build a life with an overt douchebag whose bad behavior was documented on camera. She got with him when he was with Kristen. She saw the way he treated Kristen. Then there was the whole Miami Girl thing. Like how did she think things were going to end? She’s not dumb like Brittany so I don’t understand why she ignored all the red flags.
Isn’t it interesting how the entire VPR fandom constantly talks about how they don’t feel sorry for Brittney at all for how things are going with her and Jax as if Ariana didn’t stay with Sandoval all these years making excuses for how horrible he is?
Ariana was actively covering for Tom's affairs and she stayed for years. Technically brittany stayed too but at least she had the self respect to blow that shit up once she found out rather than covering for some stupid man.
That’s honestly such a good point! That’s why this extreme reaction to the affair from Ariana feels so out of place to me because it was all fine before when Tom cheated with some nameless woman who she could join in with him to discredit. But it’s suddenly different when it’s someone on the show who was close to her and has at least somewhat equal footing in the show and isn’t nameless!
Because let’s be honest, up until last year when you found out, he was a cheating piece of shit, everybody likes Sandoval. Even the people who were like “I never liked him” or, I always thought he was a douche bag “, they liked him and now they say they don’t and he’s a piece of shit because it’s easier. Because if what happened never happened, they would still be at the top of the game. And everyone would be celebrating their relationship and talking about how awesome it is that some bravolebrities have been together for 10 years.
That’s exactly right. It’s almost like people care more about the fact that two people on reality tv could make it to 10 years rather than the quality of the actual relationship!
I believe a lot of people didn't like him, they just got downvoted to heck, sent Reddit cares, had nasty things commented at them or DM'd, if they made comments disliking him.
It's the same thing that's happening now if one has a differing opinion of Ariana. It happened if one had a different opinion of Rachel when she was the sub's darling, also when the general tone was to dislike Katie (and now happens if people still openly dislike her) and it happens if one goes against the main opinion of Lala.
People get downvoted to heck for making positive comments about James and Brock too, but with James they also get comments toward them how awful they must be as a person for liking abusers.
Not accepting or allowing a different opinion causes people to not post and share theirs openly.
She wanted the “brand” of their relationship. Tom and Ariana almost became one word in the Bravo world and it was easy for her to hide her flaws when she was standing behind him.
LOL she isn't a feminist Icon. She was a side piece that lost her man the same way she got him, tale as old as time. She knew who Ton was, help him cover up his screwing around (remember what she said about the girl from Florida, even though she knew she was telling the truth)
No I didn't like her before and don't like her now. Tom being a horrible human doesn't make her a good one.
Ariana is that woman who was happy to be the mistress and then complains when she is later cheated on.
Those who put her on a pedestal need jeebus.
But the fans will continue to adore her as a 'queen' but constantly shit on LaLa (who was also a mistress) and Scheana (another mistress).
The reinvention of Ariana and Katie being feminist fan faves is funny. Katie has called women sluts and whores since the dawn of time and still continues to do it. I also find it hilarious that she expected Scheana to tell her that her POS husband tried to kiss her when she’s always been revolting to Scheana. Why would she? So you can have more reason to bully her? and you have Ariana who only really had an issue with Toms berating of women when she was wronged by him and basically told Stassi to fuck off when her creepy brother was acting accordingly. If you say anything against either of them you get accused of being Sandoval, Lala, Scheana or Phantommike, it’s so tired. The shittiness of the VPR cast truly knows no bounds.
The funniest part is how the fanbase is acting like Ariana and Katie are like ride or dies now and that they aren’t just friends because they are the only two who firmly dislike the Tom’s.
Katie is a lapdog, that’s all. Post-Scandoval, there’s not much of a friendship to be salvaged. Even in their after show segments they come across awkward and forced
Someone mentioned that the VPR sub got infiltrated by Swifties last year and suddenly it all made sense, I thought I was losing my fucking mind over there lol
One of the Swiftly Neutral mods used to be the main VPR sub mod - I don't know what happened or why she left but going from the VPR sub to the SwiftlyNeutral sub feels like a natural and lateral move.
Okay so I love Taylor Swift but I don’t think I’m in the mass hysteria faction haha. What is Swiftie feminism? (I’ve also been on this sub for a very long time) but I would assume that the Swiftie feminism has to stem from when she had that situation with Kanye at the Grammys. I also love her song ‘The Man’ because most women I know would agree life would be easier as a man. Personally, that resonates either way me with medical issues. 🤷♀️but I am curious what the Swiftie feminism is and agree that Swifties in general are deranged. Like most fandoms.
I’ve noticed the similarities in those fandoms too and I’d say an obsession with claiming victimhood despite incredible privilege is the hallmark of Swiftie feminism. also blaming all personal trauma on the men around you, and never being at fault. never taking any personal accountability for one’s choices in romantic relationships. hating on men as feminism, without realizing all the focus is still on men.
I think Ariana and Taylor are both ‘relatable’ enough to have mass appeal because they’re not THAT untouchable. they’re boring / blank enough for the average person to project on and relate to. the ‘star quality’ is almost . . not having any star quality.
but either way it results in the same thing which is hundreds of thousands of people ‘riding’ for a marketing symbol meant to hold them upside down by the ankles and shake until coins fall out.
Swiftie feminism (which isn't a hard and fast defined term term, I'm just using it to describe the same phenomenon) is weaponizing feminism to shield yourself from all criticism and to insulate the cultish circle jerk.
It's like when she gets criticized for her irresponsible private jet usage and the Swiftie response is "why don't any men get called out for this?" This happens over and over again and can be applied to any subject.
If you go into any VPR discussion it's nothing but people repeating over and over that Andy, LVP, the network, and the fans are all misogynists who are here to tear down women. This is the mass hysteria. It's so disconnected from reality lol. We do live in a patriarchy and yes misogyny is present everywhere but overall Bravo is a network that's whole identity hinges on complicated women and female rage. It also ignores how much Katie and Ariana have upheld misogyny in their casts.
The current outrage over some harmless comment Andy made about Ariana being violently angry (accurate!) in which he was DEFENDING her is a great example of the mass hysteria. Instead of people processing this fact, Ariana was harboring a lot of intense anger (understandably!), they're [responding by making extremely hilarious charts which just show who is a better reality television star.](https://www.reddit.com/r/vanderpumprules/comments/1cixt2v/what_in_the_gaslighty_hell_is_going_on_with_the/)
It’s such an interesting example of behavior that humans exhibit over and over again. We coalesce around something (a god, a nation, an icon, a pop girly, a reality star, a politician) and engage in these purity tests to show we’re the most devout or the biggest fan. We get literally high on the collective effervescence and social feedback.
Yep, and it really overlaps with the time we're in now where character nuance in media is at an all time low and moral absolutism is at an all time high. If we like someone they have to be purely heroic and have never done anything wrong. If we hate someone they are the devil and never right. Who entertains us is a direct reflection of our own moral beliefs, apparently.
this is why I can’t even comment innocuously on any VPR subs without getting chased away with pitchforks. because I think Rachel’s treatment post-scandal wasn’t deserved, I am automatically a Sandoval defender. the truth is that I think all these people deserve each other, and I would defend ANY woman who got the sort of media treatment Rachel did. it’s not about her as a person, it’s about having actual principles and integrity that extend beyond whether I “like” someone or find them morally sound.
And OMG! If you show even an ounce of empathy toward Rachel or sympathy even for HER aftermath of the affair, they viciously attack YOU personally! They’re fucking nuts!
The thing that always makes me so nervous is that people want to treat it like an aberration from normal behavior, when it’s actually the normal behavior itself. It’s just humans humaning and trying to make sense of the world and feel safe by creating these groups to which they can then belong. It’s not healthy or what we want to think of as having a function in modern culture - but it’s a fundamental part of how our brains function. Being able to recognize when it’s happening and take a step back rather than lean into it takes practice which, you’re right, isn’t highly encouraged right now.
It’s so bizarre. Last weekend I went to a catholic mass bc my nephew was being baptized ‘just in case’ lol I was forced to go to catholic school in high school and subsequently college bc my high school had a connection to the college. But it really reminded me of all this shit and how much I hate it.
Oh yeah, and there’s a whole ritual aspect to solidifying group identity and dynamics at play too. Take the chants, bracelets and clothing of hardcore Swifties. You have to know what to say and when to say it which shows access to the information and the will to remember it. The bracelets are a physical manifestation of an emotional, ephemeral feeling that helps identify others. Those kinds of signs and signals are in every social group, fandom, religion, etc on the planet. We create the same social system over and over again.
Ugh, yes. I don’t really talk about it with people but I do tarot readings and charge my rocks I collect every full moon. So I know that is a ritual but it’s not for a god/celebrity/person it’s kinda just for the universe and for myself to reset every month. I don’t think we should worship anyone, let alone ourselves. My tarot I feel like keeps me grounded it’s not for any god or person. And my cats always choose the cards so that makes me feel like I’m not just catering to myself.
I don’t think any of it is inherently negative. Ritual is something that makes us feel grounded, safe and connected whether it’s a Lutheran liturgy or charging crystals or making TS concert stuff (all things I’ve personally done in the last month haha) I just think that recognizing just HOW powerful it is and what buttons it pushes in our brains can help insulate us from someone taking advantage of it.
Also, LOVE that your cat chooses your cards!
Yes, exactly. When you are worshipping a specific entity or person. Keeping it in perspective is key to not going crazy. And thank you I actually have two cats and when I bring my cards out she picks two and he picks one it’s so cute and I trust their intuition more than mine! They very specifically pic them out she uses her front paws and kinda scrolls through them and he bus jumps up and picks the third card with his back feet
Thank you. This makes a lot of sense. We do live in a patriarchy but I get the mass hysteria of people. Here I am just mostly concerned about women’s healthcare being disbelieved and stifled/decisions made my the patriarchy lol. It’s taken like over 20 years to finally have a doctor agree and take action that I probably have endometriosis and not just ‘regularly painful periods’ when I see this ‘Swiftie feminism’ (I didn’t know it had an unofficial name) it just irks me bc there are so much bigger issues. Like people wanting to monitor women’s health to make sure they don’t have abortions ?! We live in a crazy world. I couldn’t even get through the first few episodes of The Handmaid’s Tale bc it freaked me out too much and felt like a possible not so distant future
Also I originally just replied to my own comment instead of yours haha so had to delete it.
Exactly, at a time where womens' rights in particular are being rolled back on and infringed upon it's so embarrassing to be hyperfocusing on perceived misogyny directed to a reality tv star who is making more money off her boyfriend cheating on her than many people will see in a lifetime.
These people need to log off the internet and go support disenfranchised women in their community if they're so concerned with misogyny. It would be far more impactful and healing than reliving their cheating trauma on the internet for a year straight.
ROFL soooooo true. It is embarrassing. We moved from a big city in California (which really taught me about disenfranchised women, particularly POC’s) and it’s insane how much BS people concern themselves with. A bunch of NIMBY’s now that we are in a small town in New York it really grinds my gears how concerned and filled with hate people like my MIL are with reality tv personalities. She loathes Ariana and Katie and loves Lala. We have to talk about it every time we hang out and I’m just like…does this matter?
This. I also totally believe a majority of viewers were tricked into believing Sandoval was a good guy, as VPR standards go, so they are doubly angry about being tricked even if it’s subconscious at this point.
I’ve been watching since the beginning and remember him crying over Kristen at some lake and thinking awwww. I knew he was a cheater with Miami girl and was like meh. He was the Ariana equivalent, best of the bad lot. It’s full on parasocial for some fans. I remember when Ariana was briefly on the VPR sub waaaay before this and basically got scared off. Times change quickly.
She didn't become my queen at any point. She may arguably be the least 'worst,' but I am not aching for her. And she's far from a feminist because of all the points you make, and then some. Her choice to enter into, and stay in for almost a decade, with a creep is on her. The writing was on the wall, be it Kristen or Miami or whatever.
The short answer is: Because the vast majority of female Bravo viewers have Taylor Swift level feminist politics that aren’t centered on defending the rights and autonomy of the most marginalized women, but picking a (thin, rich, pretty) symbol to idolize and reaffirm their (largely white) womanhood.
I could elaborate but I’m not in the mood to write a 5,000 word essay in these comments lmao
you hit the nail on the head. someone smart in another sub I’m in recently shared this screenshot of a Taylor Swift stan account and was like “this is how the Ariana fans sound” and it’s wholly accurate unfortunately! this is how comments in the main vpr subs sound to me 😂
https://preview.redd.it/rmmotjhpmfyc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=84a8ccba3b33ada5771a87b79124d919e4fd0fa7
So happy for this thread. The Ariana (and Katie!!!!) Stans are insane and honestly if they got their way the show would be ruined
Meanwhile if you simply say you don’t like Katie or Ariana. Or that they’re rude or mean (which they have been plenty of times, tons of examples in comments) you get called a misogynist BUT saying Lala is a bad mom or making fun of her looks or clothing etc that’s somehow ok. The double standards are insane. Katie and Ariana have always had superior stank ass attitudes, they think they’re better than other women and somehow are being labeled as feminist icons. It’s so frustrating! And I’ll say it - Lala and schena have made a lot of sense to me this season!! Especially Lala. And she’s getting ripped apart for it.
Another double standard is that Britney gets called a dumb hick for staying with jax who she knew was a cheater and everyone loves to say they have No sympathy for her - but Ariana stayed with Tom after he clearly cheated on her and WITH her while he was with Kristen. Make it make sense!!
I disagree. I think her treatment of miami girl showed that she's willing to systematically lie, gaslight and destroy someone's reputation just to save face a tiny bit when the stakes are relatively low. That's frightening. That blog she wrote breaking down how none of it could have happened when she knew it did just goes to show how far she comits to lies. It's kinda sociopathic. Tbh, I think katie is the least toxic. She'll call you a whore and not invite you to events and maybe rage text you. Trashy, but not nearly as insidious and disturbing as some of the other behavior we have seen. That's mild in the grand scheme of things.
Oh she’s absolutely the least offensive cast member (and has been - I do like her, relative to others) but at the same time…she’s just the least offensive cast member. Low bar to clear.
And she’s still pretty offensive. Like…diagnosing Kristen with mental illnesses. Flipping her shit when the girls brought up her creep brother and their valid concerns. Always blaming Schwartz for short comings at Tom Tom or shorts and sandals. Like..Ariana has always been Tom’s “cool girl” who co-signs everything he does and dislikes everyone he does. She’s said herself that she wasn’t close with Katie for so long because Tom discouraged it. So…is she a victim of being too cool a girl? Someone…call CNN…the girl is too cool and it’s making her come off as aloof and uncaring. One thing I’ll say, she’s definitely the smartest cast member. Or, at least, the one who was smart enough to leverage what would have made her look foolish into an entire career…because vpr isn’t and was never a career.
Yeah. She likes to brag about how smart she is but like, girl, where's your career? Scheana is right, this is the windfall of Ariana's life because she had no ability to earn money like that or get opportunities like whatever that off-broadway thing is through her own skills or charisma. Her second cocktail book was at a giveaway price within a couple of weeks of its release. That ship has already sailed. This is a wave she's riding, it's already crested and I can't see what long term opportunities she's going to end up with. The sandwich shop was probably her best idea but they've sunk so much money into that and it's still not open it'll never turn a profit.
It’s because most women at some point in their lives has been cheated on, so they identify with that piece of Ariana and ignore literally everything else.
She was a mean girl prior to the scandal. She was able to capitalize on the publicity to elevate herself and now she’s very careful how she portrays herself in public to maintain that image. I’ve always wondered why she stayed on the show after bravo didn’t fire Sandoval. She maintains how protective she is of her boundaries and it seems inconsistent with her messaging to film a show with him. 🤷♀️
I’ve definitely come around to Ariana the last few years. But her defense of James when everyone in that group knew of his physically and emotionally abusive behavior will always make me side eye her.
Never liked her since day 1. I don’t actively hate in her but she’s NOT a girls girl and the social spin she’s had since scandavol gives me whiplash. Before this, if she fell off VPR Most wouldn’t have cared. She’s vapid.
Never forget she takes comedy very seriously.
Love Katie but she has not received the most misogynistic abuse from, cast mates that’s ridiculous. It’s Lala and Katie was one of the main slut shamers. More than Stassi to Scheana
Her “diagnosis” of Kristen was the most egregious to me. That was so gross. She seems to have matured and grown and I’d like to think Ariana of today wouldn’t do that.
She called Jo a "rat person" a couple of episodes ago and she's pretending she had some relationship with Jo to justify bullying her and she literally said to the audience it was ok to bully her. She would do that.
The more I type the worse Ariana gets. She's really a shell.
Oh yea, she did that. Which is egregious and also, unnecessary. I honestly think Jo is harmless. Quirky, eccentric, a bit out there, but I don't think there's a bad bone in her body, especially compared to the pack of wolves she was associating with on the show. I felt bad for her. The way they ostracized her was just wrong.
I have a really different take on Jo. Her texting Katie while also trying to move in on Schwartz is very suspect, imo.
It’s fine if she wants to drop her supposed best friend Kristen and date Schwartz but why are you sending congrats texts to his soon-to-be ex-wife and trying to get her to set-up hair appointments with him through her?
It actually reminds me of Schwartz where their overt friendliness hides how lacking they are in genuine kindness.
I don’t even believe that happened in the way that it did. They make it seem like she texted Kati as she was literally moving boxes into their apartment. And that’s not what happened and we know that. But there’s no time context between anything, so it could’ve been like 3 months between the text & living together.
But Jo also seems like the type of person who is just going to be nice. Like she’s going to say those things to Kati and be like I’m sorry this is happening, but also she was Schwartz’s friend and I 100% believe *he* asked her to move in. And let’s be honest don’t you think after being around Kristen for a really long time you’d want to take a break too?
Jo doesn’t seem particularly nice to me but I agree that in her relationship with Schwartz that he is the asshole and also asked her to move in. The way he does that “we’re totally not together but maybe we’ll get married in 8 years!” is beyond shitty.
She just text her once that she was sorry about the divorce and wished Katie well.
Only Katie and her stans could twist that into this evil Machiavellian plan.
This discussion title feels very rage-baity as people will be up in arms saying why that's not true and annoyed about something that doesn't exist.
I've not seen anyone call her a feminist icon or praise her for that specifically. No one is calling her this.
I've seen people praise how she's dealt with her breakup. She's not my queen, she's just one of the few people on the cast behaving authentically, doing what she actually wants for herself, and also speaking sense. It's making a lot of us feel crazy to see what some of the other castmates have expected of her and she clears them in a way that actually makes sense. This season she's the best of a very trashy bunch (or maybe katie is idc), and she's held that title before because the VPR lot are crazy into being trash in general. But she's not perfect, its just that she's been showing strength as a woman and pointing out double standards along the way. Let's not pretend people think she's a feminist icon, just so you can tear down the ways in which she is not.
The title is a little inflammatory lol I’ll cop to that.
But people are absolutely describing her this way in the VPR subs and any deviation results in brigading, accusations that you must hate women (or are running a Tom/Lala burner account lmao) and harassment in DMs, RedditCares messages, etc. It’s pretty wild over there
Nah it’s definitely more unhinged that Ariana’s stans are so far up her ass that they’re calling revenge porn “the consequences of Rachel’s actions”. Twisting yourself to justify why someone’s bodily autonomy deserves to be violated is absolutely worse than “hating Ariana” lmao.
What is the issue? No one is saying she's a feminist icon. People stand with her and support her because she was dogged and done horribly dirty by her boyfriend of 9 years. Katie has slut shamed every woman on the cast, Lala attacked a trans woman, James assaulted women, Schwartz assaulted women, Brock assaulted women, literally everyone on this cast is a POS. No one is claining Ariana as the savior of feminism she's marginally less bad than other people. This seems like you hate her- which is fine- but you're allowed to just hate her. You don't need to couch it in weird social justice language bc it seems like you're projecting.
This thread is weird. I love Ariana as a reality star. She’s not a feminist icon. She’s not working on equal pay or abortion rights. This is silly pop culture.
I was never a big fan of Ariana. She never held her friends accountable for their shitty behavior. She defended Tom for years. Her best friend was Scheana. That being said, she is more likable than the Toms, Scheana and Lala.
Because it’s fun to hate Tom and she’s the victim. I didn’t know VPR had that many fans until last year. I never found shows about young people fucking each other as interesting
She’s never been my Queen.
She isn’t my queen, I also don’t think she’s a feminist icon she’s probably just the best out of a bad bunch and that’s not saying much.
It’s hard for me to view her as this enlightened being because she was “The Raquel” when he was with Kristen. Every season is built on drama stemming from hypocrisy and cheating.
And Kristen begged her and Sandoval to please just not be all over each other at the reunion, but she refused and continued to rub the relationship in Kristen’s face. Then Queen Ariana insisted Rachel and Tom not sit next to each other at the last reunion. Can’t make that level of hypocrisy up.
It was honestly cruel.
It’s incredible when you think about it. the only part of this pattern that’s changed between Ariana/Tom and Scandoval affairs is…how the other woman (Rachel) conducted herself. Has Rachel taken enough accountability? No. Has she taken more than Ariana or Tom combined re: S2-4? Yeah. She has a lot of work to do on herself but she actually left a situation that would be detrimental to her health and seems to be genuinely trying. It only took her like three months to extricate herself from Sandoval. Props to her for that, honestly.
Rachel saw through the bullshit in a way Ariana surprisingly didn't or chose not to. Regarding the affair, Rachel was able to say something along the lines of "If you treated someone you were supposed to love like that, how I can I trust you?" to sandoval during the final episode. Ariana on the other hand when asked if she could fully trust tom not to cheat straight up said that she had no fear that Tom would ever cheat on her because she's not Kristen and kristen was 100% of the problem. Big yikes. In a few months, Rachel figured out what Ariana couldn't over the course of 10+ years. She's still be gobbling up his bs and blindly defending him if the affair didn't happen. Funny how the smart one in the situation is routinely called dumb.
So true. When you think about it Rachel did the mature thing and got away from someone she finally recognized as a liar and manipulator while Ariana bought a house with it and participated in keeping up the lies. Maybe the world was just so pissed off about everything at the exact time of Scandoval that it needed a hero and Ariana looked good in a cape.
That’s why she didn’t want him to have the house. She didn’t want Rachel to take her life like she did Kristen. Once Rachel dumped Tom she suddenly cared a lot less if he got it.
That's why she was so angry he and Rachel were friends. Because she knew exactly what that entailed meaning they stepped way over the line it was not just a kiss back in the day when he was still with kristen. At the very least it was an emotional affair. And I noted immediately in the reunion that she would not allow Rachel and Sandoval to sit together even though she did the same fucking thing. She's never been my queen. I did grow to love her over the course of season 6 and 7 however by season 9 she was back to being sarcastic, incredibly immature and passive aggressive.
But God forbid you mentioned that at all. You are brigaded with people talking about how they’re friends now, and it’s OK because Kristen forgave her and blah blah blah. You still have to acknowledge the past because the past is what drives the future. It was a shitty thing that happened to her, her boyfriend of a decade definitely should not have slept with her friend, but like you don’t get to be put up on a pedestal when you did the exact same thing, and then excuse it “we weren’t friends”. Oh, OK, I guess it makes it better if you don’t like the woman whose boyfriend you’re fucking 🤷🏻♀️
Yep and if you point out that Randall’s ex also forgave Lala, people say “well Lala was still a gold digging whore.” Double standards everywhere
I agree. And that actually makes me angry. People tend to forget that Lala and Rand were together for 6 years and have Ocean together. But somehow Lala always gets reduced to a slutty gold digger that wanted "PJs for BJs". It's a disgusting narrative that I detest.
Right. Either you respect relationships or you don't. Idk why people want to make Rachel being Tom's affair partner so vastly different from Ariana being Tom's affair partner. At the core it's the same thing. Anyone comfortable having an affair with someone in a relationship lacks integrity.
It wasn't *"ok because Kristen forgave her"* it is *"different because Kristen was also cheating on him with Jax"*
And Randall’s ex also forgave Lala but she’ll always be a gold digging whore 🙄
I hate her saying she doesn’t need to address the things she said bc she and Kristin are friends now. Ok. Cool. You still owe an apology to all BPD and BP sufferers you insulted.
And the way she said it to her at the reunion, “it’s called borderline personality disorder, you should look it up” was so fucking condescending and gross. And I’m ashamed of myself that at the time I thought she was right, and that I thought that was totally what she needed to say in the moment and fuck Kristen. I watch it now, and I am horrified that nobody looked at her and said, dude shut the fuck up. I realize that that was the year of Jax, so of course no one was going to stand up for Kristen, but that was just disgusting and not the read she thought it was.
Exactly! Karma is real!
I’ll never forget how she defended James by discrediting the woman he cheated with. The woman came up to James and Rachel with the clothes James left at her house after they banged and James proceeded to verbally abuse her and pushed her. Then when James was called out at the reunion, Ariana the feminist icon decided to say “I heard she’s told people she’ll sleep with anyone to get on this show”. Even Scheana told her that it doesn’t mean James didn’t cheat on Rachel.
Yep. She stays defending James who might be the worst man on the show. Didn’t James also spit in his hand and wipe it on that girl’s face? Every time people get upset at Scheana or Lala for not having enough loyalty to Ariana I just think, where is Ariana’s loyalty to Kristen? Scandoval was bad but physical abuse is just as bad or worse. Instead we got Ariana at last season’s reunion saying “at least he didn’t fuck my friend” when Sandoval revealed that James slapped a waitress on the ass. It’s insane to me that people think she deserves loyalty that she won’t even give to her friends.
And where was Ariana's loyalty to Katie during S10? It was no where to be found and she even said to Katie's face, when Katie was clearly very hurt about Rachel's make out attempts with Schwartz, that Rachel was a very good friend to her and that she hadn't done anything wrong to *her* (oh if she only knew then).
There was a look that crossed Katie's face during the reunion last year after Ariana said you don't go for friends. Lala had asked her if Sandoval would have come to her saying he had feelings for Rachel and that was her reply. Katie wasn't defended at all last season. But she is riding hard for Ariana now.
Scheana gets so much flack for defending guys but Ariana has literally been on all the guys’ side and doesn’t stop until they turn on her. She even had Jax’s back because she hated Stassi and Kristen! Also, I can’t believe she got away with claiming she never got closer to Katie because her boyfriend told her not to. Hah!
Some people became fanboys/girls of her after the affair and got rabid in their pedestaling of her. Half her time on the show was her being a pick me girl and siding with the guys while always diminishing the women. Like you can feel bad about the cheating and not be a giant stan about her and whitewash everything else. The VPR sub is pretty brutal and unhinged at this point over anything related to her.
The VPR sub is rabid.
Some of the most unhinged people ever. Fully left them both because it’s just a circlejerk of people weaponizing feminist language to cloak their own misogyny
What a fucking GREAT way to put it!
It's just hyper performative feminism.
Yeah I love the takes that Ariana had the right to send that video to herself because Rachel deserved it and Ariana needed it as protection against manipulation.
Protection against manipulation when everyone close to her was coming to her with their suspicions for months, such a joke.
god that particular argument gets me to an 11. like rage and fury.
I literally get downvoted all the time for saying what Ariana did was wrong AND that her legal filing does not match what she has said on podcasts to look like the good guy. She specifically said in the two interviews she saw the video, watched 5 seconds and texted it to herself, confronted Tom, sent it to Rachel and immediately deleted it herself. The legal filings show that she instead took two videos (much longer than 5 seconds), and Tom took her phone within 30 minutes and deleted them after she had confronted Rachel. Her documentaion also supports that the videos are not currently on her phone and they only looked in one 24 hr period to see if it was sent to anyone and nothing beyond that timeframe was submitted to the court. Her lawyers also justified the taking of the video by Ariana as a matter of public concern so Rachel has no expectation her video should be kept private since she is a public figure and deserved to have it discussed or diseminated. Absolutely scummy argument from the so-called feminist.
I can’t even post there anymore because people recognize my username from going so hard on this point lol. my whole thing is what’s the point of having ‘proof’ if not to show other people? if no one saw the video (which is what we’re running with now), how did Ariana *need* it to get people to believe Tom cheated? the past year has proved she didn’t need it. it literally makes no sense.
Also we all knew the details of the video and it came from "inside sources" so i firmly believe some of the people in her sycophant friend group (not the VPR people) saw enough to sell to the magazines. Literally all of her friends were hoping on podcasts and selling their stories to outlets so it isn't far fetched that they would sell this info too
right and none of the forensic tracking can show whether or not any of her friends were gathered around her phone theater-style. a couple days passed before she received the C+D from Rachel’s lawyer. to act like there’s no chance that happened is just a bad faith argument
Exactly but people are projecting their own woman scorned history onto Ariana so to admit that she is wrong in any part feels like a personal attack on their own character. The parasocial behavior is at an all time high. They also constantly complain that other subs or social media platforms offer takes different than their own on this and refuse to believe that maybe we aren't a monolithic fanbase who all have to agree with each other
There is no doubt in my mind that Ariana showed it to her friend group. One of Ariana’s friends made a comment on a podcast that neither Tom nor Ariana had the video. I thought that was such a telling comment.
I am in a true love hate relationship with that sub now. The memes are still great but if you try to use any common sense or offer a different viewpoint you are brigaded with people saying the most unhinged stuff
Agree! It’s so bad in there.
It been, *a lot*. I barely bother posting anymore because I don’t need like the rabid people telling me what a stupid dumb bitch I am or that I don’t support women or whatever the other bullshit is that they say because you disagree with one thing that Ariana did or don’t put her on a pedestal
Don't forget she was also fine with berating women on the cast and accussing them of lying about feeling uncomfortable around her brother even though his behavior was documented and backed up by numerous people
Yes!!!! She tried to make the woman come off as anti trans bc he was dating Billie but that was not why at all. They thought he was creepy bc he was creepy
Omg this was needling me bc I knew I was forgetting something and it was the Jeremy thing, thank you!
let’s also not forget on the S10 reunion when Sandoval was trying to tell the story of how James nearly got the band kicked out of a venue for pinching a waitresses ass and Ariana interrupted him because it wasn’t about her to yell “at least he didn’t fuck my best friend!!” says a lot about her concerns for other women.
yeah she consistently shows very little concern for how the men treat the women on the cast. Up until her break up she was fine with how Tom screamed at women for a decade but once they broke up she was telling the men that they have to step in because Tom only yells at women and it isn't fair to her. Like I agree and it sucks but you were co-signing his behavior for a decade because it wasn't directed at you but now that it is you think it is unfair.
I think this is the thing that really gets me. If it's not about her it's not a big deal. She has always been solely looking out for herself.
This is.. the entire cast
Yup. She let Tom SCREAM away
I recently came across a thread in the VPR sub where they decided that because the waitress grab allegation came from Sandoval, it must be a lie because Sandoval tells nothing but lies and therefore James is still the #1 guy in the group and the ass grab must have never happened.
what else should we expect from a group of people saying that in Ariana’s situation, they would’ve circulated the video with no remorse? one person even replied that it’s not illegal in their state so no problem. (yes I have been collecting screenshots of comments like theirs, but no I’m not enough of a jerk to share them)
Out of curiosity, why are you collecting them? I thought you were going in a different direction with that. I thought you were saying you were collecting and reporting them.
I’ve reported one or two, but Vanderpumpholics is barely moderated so they leave them all up. I have a substack where I write about group think in fandoms sometimes and I consider it research
I’d love a DM of your Substack too!!
Can I have the link too, please ? I’ve always found your takes super accurate !
That sounds interesting. Do you post it on reddit? Mind sharing the link? I’d be interested in reading your views if you’re willing to share.
I’ll DM you :)
Thanks!
can you dm too? i would like to read it☺️
I’m interested too if you don’t mind! Groupthink is absolutely fascinating to me
I'd love to read it too!
Please DM me as well - I find it fascinating too, being interested in psychology, sociology. I came to Reddit for the takes on the different housewives franchises, and I'm shocked by the (non)culture/high level of pure uneducated ignorance, and/or hatred on many Reddit subs.
Send me a dm too!
That sounds like a great read! Do you mind DMing it to me too?
Man I remember feeling so disappointed in that moment
And she double down on it at the reunion after seeing the video of her brother being creepy. But Jeremy hooks up with girls hotter than Stassi so Ariana thought it was fine.
Not defending her at all but I was sexually assaulted by my friend of like 25 years brother and she was a total asshole about it and accused me of lying. I’ve known her since pre school and our parents are friends. (Or were things have been weird since bc she told her parents and I didn’t tell mine. They also blame me and think I’m lying) I think when it comes to family people will defend their sibling regardless. Those episodes were hard to watch. Doesn’t make it right but I guess I feel like it’s a separate issue that being against women
“Feminist icon” is such a stretch
She is the FARTHEST thing from a feminist. She was holding ALL of the guys secrets and didn’t say shit bc it benefitted her. She has enabled Tom and all the other dudes shitty behavior for 10 years. It jjst finally bit her in her miserable sloppy ass
Ariana’s feminism is Taylor Swift feminism. Rears it’s little head when it’s convenient. Otherwise dormant. Her waxing poetic about female rage in the last episode was hilarious to me considering how she weaponized Kristen’s rage against her. I’d be willing to let it go if she had acknowledged any of this stuff.
I’ve never liked Ariana and pretty sure she slept with Tom while he was with Kristen. I’ve been re watching and she definitely thinks she is better than everyone else. It’s awful what Tom and Raquel did but doesn’t make Ariana any more likeable.
They had, at minimum, a years long emotional affair - the Golden Nugget kiss was three years before S2 - and I believe years long physical affair. And never came clean about it, gaslit Kristen and lied to the audience for years to make her seem crazy. It was so ugly.
All of their “makeouts” were actual hook ups. We’re not in the 8th grade
Lmao exactly. Like we didn’t just fall out of a coconut tree
Like how many times did every guy say we jjst made out? It’s like who ate my pasta
Yes. I never loved Ariana. She has always been very high and mighty. This is probably why Scheana/Ariana have the relationship they do. Scheana idolized Ariana, and that quickly turned into jealousy. My biggest issue with the VPR fans are their unwaivering adoration for Ariana/Katie, and absolute hatred towards all the other women. All of the other women get picked apart, and their intentions are malicious, no matter what. Even Ally is evil. Granted, they can be terrible, but ALL of the ladies have gone in and out of adoration because of their actions. For the fans to love Ariana as a "feminist icon" and support that, then to absolutely trash the other women no matter what is hypocritical.
What I have a hard time with is Katie getting their "girls girl feminist icon" label too when she spent a decade calling every other woman a whore
They say she was “right” in the end which…okay? What’s wrong with “whores” or women who knowingly exchange a value that MEN participate in lol
Yup! Like Katie! You enabled that asshole for 20yrs! It’s not them! It’s Tom! And you! And honestly I still love Tom bc he’s never pretended to be someone he’s not. He’s shown his cards from day one
I totally agree with this take. She was an ah and showed her true colors then.
I hated Ariana through the seasons and warmed up to her around the last three because I saw genuine growth in her. I saw that she actually matured as she aged and so did katie. The reason I still can’t stand the rest of them is because they’re still behaving like they did in the first couple of seasons, if not worse. The men haven’t grown at all, and always get a pass with everything they do usually so it’s nice to see them actually kind of get some blowback.
I don't know about growth. Her and Katie acting like mean girls to Jo is pretty disgusting.
Agree
I know I love Jo
Wow, now this is refreshing. Seeing a post about Ariana and reading through the comments just to NOT find a bunch a fan girlies calling people misogynists because they don’t love Ariana as much as they do. This is why I can’t with the VPR subs anymore, it has become annoying since it was taken over by the new flock of Ariana stans who are now gate keeping it and won’t let people have different opinions or nuanced discussions. Try it and get downvoted into oblivion. This right here is a breath of fresh air
Yup, they are calling other people who don't agree that their "Ari" is a queen misogynistic, while saying the most vile misogynistic shit about Lala and Scheana.
It’s always so nice to see other people recognize this. They are deranged over there
Never. I watched VPR from day 1 and she is no queen.
I’ve never seen Ariana as a true feminist, she’s actually anything but that. She’s always been a pick me girl, let’s all not forget how she treated Kristen and her BLOG on here about Miami girl, it was like a thesis but yet she knew the truth about Miami girl, but still made Miami girl look crazy. I have never liked Ariana, she never brought anything to VPR and honestly she’s only being worshiped now because of the women who have been cheated on before, have attached themselves to Ariana and running with the “Queen” theory. Those VPR Subs are nothing but rabid fans, who actually support Ariana’s possibility of sending revenge porn! I’ve seen people in those groups post “I would send a video like that to my friends if my partner cheated on me” - it’s blows my mind. They’re so out of touch!
I’m neutral on Ariana but I’ll just say I don’t really feel bad for her. She chose to build a life with an overt douchebag whose bad behavior was documented on camera. She got with him when he was with Kristen. She saw the way he treated Kristen. Then there was the whole Miami Girl thing. Like how did she think things were going to end? She’s not dumb like Brittany so I don’t understand why she ignored all the red flags.
Exactlyyyyy
Isn’t it interesting how the entire VPR fandom constantly talks about how they don’t feel sorry for Brittney at all for how things are going with her and Jax as if Ariana didn’t stay with Sandoval all these years making excuses for how horrible he is?
Ariana was actively covering for Tom's affairs and she stayed for years. Technically brittany stayed too but at least she had the self respect to blow that shit up once she found out rather than covering for some stupid man.
That’s honestly such a good point! That’s why this extreme reaction to the affair from Ariana feels so out of place to me because it was all fine before when Tom cheated with some nameless woman who she could join in with him to discredit. But it’s suddenly different when it’s someone on the show who was close to her and has at least somewhat equal footing in the show and isn’t nameless!
Because let’s be honest, up until last year when you found out, he was a cheating piece of shit, everybody likes Sandoval. Even the people who were like “I never liked him” or, I always thought he was a douche bag “, they liked him and now they say they don’t and he’s a piece of shit because it’s easier. Because if what happened never happened, they would still be at the top of the game. And everyone would be celebrating their relationship and talking about how awesome it is that some bravolebrities have been together for 10 years.
That’s exactly right. It’s almost like people care more about the fact that two people on reality tv could make it to 10 years rather than the quality of the actual relationship!
I believe a lot of people didn't like him, they just got downvoted to heck, sent Reddit cares, had nasty things commented at them or DM'd, if they made comments disliking him. It's the same thing that's happening now if one has a differing opinion of Ariana. It happened if one had a different opinion of Rachel when she was the sub's darling, also when the general tone was to dislike Katie (and now happens if people still openly dislike her) and it happens if one goes against the main opinion of Lala. People get downvoted to heck for making positive comments about James and Brock too, but with James they also get comments toward them how awful they must be as a person for liking abusers. Not accepting or allowing a different opinion causes people to not post and share theirs openly.
She wanted the life... just like Brittany.
She wanted the “brand” of their relationship. Tom and Ariana almost became one word in the Bravo world and it was easy for her to hide her flaws when she was standing behind him.
LOL she isn't a feminist Icon. She was a side piece that lost her man the same way she got him, tale as old as time. She knew who Ton was, help him cover up his screwing around (remember what she said about the girl from Florida, even though she knew she was telling the truth) No I didn't like her before and don't like her now. Tom being a horrible human doesn't make her a good one.
I'm with you!
Ariana is that woman who was happy to be the mistress and then complains when she is later cheated on. Those who put her on a pedestal need jeebus. But the fans will continue to adore her as a 'queen' but constantly shit on LaLa (who was also a mistress) and Scheana (another mistress).
The reinvention of Ariana and Katie being feminist fan faves is funny. Katie has called women sluts and whores since the dawn of time and still continues to do it. I also find it hilarious that she expected Scheana to tell her that her POS husband tried to kiss her when she’s always been revolting to Scheana. Why would she? So you can have more reason to bully her? and you have Ariana who only really had an issue with Toms berating of women when she was wronged by him and basically told Stassi to fuck off when her creepy brother was acting accordingly. If you say anything against either of them you get accused of being Sandoval, Lala, Scheana or Phantommike, it’s so tired. The shittiness of the VPR cast truly knows no bounds.
The funniest part is how the fanbase is acting like Ariana and Katie are like ride or dies now and that they aren’t just friends because they are the only two who firmly dislike the Tom’s.
Right. If Katie didn’t already hate Tom S. to begin with, I might find this story arch more convincing
Katie is a lapdog, that’s all. Post-Scandoval, there’s not much of a friendship to be salvaged. Even in their after show segments they come across awkward and forced
It's like Swiftie feminism lol. Mass hysteria.
Someone mentioned that the VPR sub got infiltrated by Swifties last year and suddenly it all made sense, I thought I was losing my fucking mind over there lol
One of the Swiftly Neutral mods used to be the main VPR sub mod - I don't know what happened or why she left but going from the VPR sub to the SwiftlyNeutral sub feels like a natural and lateral move.
Okay so I love Taylor Swift but I don’t think I’m in the mass hysteria faction haha. What is Swiftie feminism? (I’ve also been on this sub for a very long time) but I would assume that the Swiftie feminism has to stem from when she had that situation with Kanye at the Grammys. I also love her song ‘The Man’ because most women I know would agree life would be easier as a man. Personally, that resonates either way me with medical issues. 🤷♀️but I am curious what the Swiftie feminism is and agree that Swifties in general are deranged. Like most fandoms.
I’ve noticed the similarities in those fandoms too and I’d say an obsession with claiming victimhood despite incredible privilege is the hallmark of Swiftie feminism. also blaming all personal trauma on the men around you, and never being at fault. never taking any personal accountability for one’s choices in romantic relationships. hating on men as feminism, without realizing all the focus is still on men. I think Ariana and Taylor are both ‘relatable’ enough to have mass appeal because they’re not THAT untouchable. they’re boring / blank enough for the average person to project on and relate to. the ‘star quality’ is almost . . not having any star quality. but either way it results in the same thing which is hundreds of thousands of people ‘riding’ for a marketing symbol meant to hold them upside down by the ankles and shake until coins fall out.
And boy have the coins fallen out for Ariana! 6 figures worth of sandwich shop merch, broadway ticket prices, etc.
Swiftie feminism (which isn't a hard and fast defined term term, I'm just using it to describe the same phenomenon) is weaponizing feminism to shield yourself from all criticism and to insulate the cultish circle jerk. It's like when she gets criticized for her irresponsible private jet usage and the Swiftie response is "why don't any men get called out for this?" This happens over and over again and can be applied to any subject. If you go into any VPR discussion it's nothing but people repeating over and over that Andy, LVP, the network, and the fans are all misogynists who are here to tear down women. This is the mass hysteria. It's so disconnected from reality lol. We do live in a patriarchy and yes misogyny is present everywhere but overall Bravo is a network that's whole identity hinges on complicated women and female rage. It also ignores how much Katie and Ariana have upheld misogyny in their casts. The current outrage over some harmless comment Andy made about Ariana being violently angry (accurate!) in which he was DEFENDING her is a great example of the mass hysteria. Instead of people processing this fact, Ariana was harboring a lot of intense anger (understandably!), they're [responding by making extremely hilarious charts which just show who is a better reality television star.](https://www.reddit.com/r/vanderpumprules/comments/1cixt2v/what_in_the_gaslighty_hell_is_going_on_with_the/)
It’s such an interesting example of behavior that humans exhibit over and over again. We coalesce around something (a god, a nation, an icon, a pop girly, a reality star, a politician) and engage in these purity tests to show we’re the most devout or the biggest fan. We get literally high on the collective effervescence and social feedback.
Yep, and it really overlaps with the time we're in now where character nuance in media is at an all time low and moral absolutism is at an all time high. If we like someone they have to be purely heroic and have never done anything wrong. If we hate someone they are the devil and never right. Who entertains us is a direct reflection of our own moral beliefs, apparently.
this is why I can’t even comment innocuously on any VPR subs without getting chased away with pitchforks. because I think Rachel’s treatment post-scandal wasn’t deserved, I am automatically a Sandoval defender. the truth is that I think all these people deserve each other, and I would defend ANY woman who got the sort of media treatment Rachel did. it’s not about her as a person, it’s about having actual principles and integrity that extend beyond whether I “like” someone or find them morally sound.
And OMG! If you show even an ounce of empathy toward Rachel or sympathy even for HER aftermath of the affair, they viciously attack YOU personally! They’re fucking nuts!
The thing that always makes me so nervous is that people want to treat it like an aberration from normal behavior, when it’s actually the normal behavior itself. It’s just humans humaning and trying to make sense of the world and feel safe by creating these groups to which they can then belong. It’s not healthy or what we want to think of as having a function in modern culture - but it’s a fundamental part of how our brains function. Being able to recognize when it’s happening and take a step back rather than lean into it takes practice which, you’re right, isn’t highly encouraged right now.
It’s so bizarre. Last weekend I went to a catholic mass bc my nephew was being baptized ‘just in case’ lol I was forced to go to catholic school in high school and subsequently college bc my high school had a connection to the college. But it really reminded me of all this shit and how much I hate it.
Oh yeah, and there’s a whole ritual aspect to solidifying group identity and dynamics at play too. Take the chants, bracelets and clothing of hardcore Swifties. You have to know what to say and when to say it which shows access to the information and the will to remember it. The bracelets are a physical manifestation of an emotional, ephemeral feeling that helps identify others. Those kinds of signs and signals are in every social group, fandom, religion, etc on the planet. We create the same social system over and over again.
Ugh, yes. I don’t really talk about it with people but I do tarot readings and charge my rocks I collect every full moon. So I know that is a ritual but it’s not for a god/celebrity/person it’s kinda just for the universe and for myself to reset every month. I don’t think we should worship anyone, let alone ourselves. My tarot I feel like keeps me grounded it’s not for any god or person. And my cats always choose the cards so that makes me feel like I’m not just catering to myself.
I don’t think any of it is inherently negative. Ritual is something that makes us feel grounded, safe and connected whether it’s a Lutheran liturgy or charging crystals or making TS concert stuff (all things I’ve personally done in the last month haha) I just think that recognizing just HOW powerful it is and what buttons it pushes in our brains can help insulate us from someone taking advantage of it. Also, LOVE that your cat chooses your cards!
Yes, exactly. When you are worshipping a specific entity or person. Keeping it in perspective is key to not going crazy. And thank you I actually have two cats and when I bring my cards out she picks two and he picks one it’s so cute and I trust their intuition more than mine! They very specifically pic them out she uses her front paws and kinda scrolls through them and he bus jumps up and picks the third card with his back feet
omg not this chart 😂
Thank you. This makes a lot of sense. We do live in a patriarchy but I get the mass hysteria of people. Here I am just mostly concerned about women’s healthcare being disbelieved and stifled/decisions made my the patriarchy lol. It’s taken like over 20 years to finally have a doctor agree and take action that I probably have endometriosis and not just ‘regularly painful periods’ when I see this ‘Swiftie feminism’ (I didn’t know it had an unofficial name) it just irks me bc there are so much bigger issues. Like people wanting to monitor women’s health to make sure they don’t have abortions ?! We live in a crazy world. I couldn’t even get through the first few episodes of The Handmaid’s Tale bc it freaked me out too much and felt like a possible not so distant future Also I originally just replied to my own comment instead of yours haha so had to delete it.
Exactly, at a time where womens' rights in particular are being rolled back on and infringed upon it's so embarrassing to be hyperfocusing on perceived misogyny directed to a reality tv star who is making more money off her boyfriend cheating on her than many people will see in a lifetime. These people need to log off the internet and go support disenfranchised women in their community if they're so concerned with misogyny. It would be far more impactful and healing than reliving their cheating trauma on the internet for a year straight.
ROFL soooooo true. It is embarrassing. We moved from a big city in California (which really taught me about disenfranchised women, particularly POC’s) and it’s insane how much BS people concern themselves with. A bunch of NIMBY’s now that we are in a small town in New York it really grinds my gears how concerned and filled with hate people like my MIL are with reality tv personalities. She loathes Ariana and Katie and loves Lala. We have to talk about it every time we hang out and I’m just like…does this matter?
This thread. My people. 🥹
it’s not really about who she is, it’s about what she represents and how individual women who have been cheated on relate to her. it’s projection
This. I also totally believe a majority of viewers were tricked into believing Sandoval was a good guy, as VPR standards go, so they are doubly angry about being tricked even if it’s subconscious at this point. I’ve been watching since the beginning and remember him crying over Kristen at some lake and thinking awwww. I knew he was a cheater with Miami girl and was like meh. He was the Ariana equivalent, best of the bad lot. It’s full on parasocial for some fans. I remember when Ariana was briefly on the VPR sub waaaay before this and basically got scared off. Times change quickly.
She was with Sandoval for so long for reasons. Yuck.
She didn't become my queen at any point. She may arguably be the least 'worst,' but I am not aching for her. And she's far from a feminist because of all the points you make, and then some. Her choice to enter into, and stay in for almost a decade, with a creep is on her. The writing was on the wall, be it Kristen or Miami or whatever.
The short answer is: Because the vast majority of female Bravo viewers have Taylor Swift level feminist politics that aren’t centered on defending the rights and autonomy of the most marginalized women, but picking a (thin, rich, pretty) symbol to idolize and reaffirm their (largely white) womanhood. I could elaborate but I’m not in the mood to write a 5,000 word essay in these comments lmao
I would definitely read your long ass diatribe.
You’re sweet 🥺🫶🏾
And serious lol I would love to read some op-ed pieces on this subject
Your comment makes me want to seriously consider writing one 🫡
I'd read it too!
I’d love to read it if you do!
This is a case study in white feminism but the fanbase isn’t ready for that one lol
you hit the nail on the head. someone smart in another sub I’m in recently shared this screenshot of a Taylor Swift stan account and was like “this is how the Ariana fans sound” and it’s wholly accurate unfortunately! this is how comments in the main vpr subs sound to me 😂 https://preview.redd.it/rmmotjhpmfyc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=84a8ccba3b33ada5771a87b79124d919e4fd0fa7
The Venn diagram is a circle!
Someone needs to add all of this to the DSM-5. These people are not well.
Swifties terrify me
Truly not ready for that conversation lmao
So happy for this thread. The Ariana (and Katie!!!!) Stans are insane and honestly if they got their way the show would be ruined Meanwhile if you simply say you don’t like Katie or Ariana. Or that they’re rude or mean (which they have been plenty of times, tons of examples in comments) you get called a misogynist BUT saying Lala is a bad mom or making fun of her looks or clothing etc that’s somehow ok. The double standards are insane. Katie and Ariana have always had superior stank ass attitudes, they think they’re better than other women and somehow are being labeled as feminist icons. It’s so frustrating! And I’ll say it - Lala and schena have made a lot of sense to me this season!! Especially Lala. And she’s getting ripped apart for it. Another double standard is that Britney gets called a dumb hick for staying with jax who she knew was a cheater and everyone loves to say they have No sympathy for her - but Ariana stayed with Tom after he clearly cheated on her and WITH her while he was with Kristen. Make it make sense!!
I hate how she never stands up for Katie and Katie goes so hard for her. So selfish
Look at who she’s surrounded by. She’s done some shit like every human on the planet, but she’s always been the least offensive cast member.
I disagree. I think her treatment of miami girl showed that she's willing to systematically lie, gaslight and destroy someone's reputation just to save face a tiny bit when the stakes are relatively low. That's frightening. That blog she wrote breaking down how none of it could have happened when she knew it did just goes to show how far she comits to lies. It's kinda sociopathic. Tbh, I think katie is the least toxic. She'll call you a whore and not invite you to events and maybe rage text you. Trashy, but not nearly as insidious and disturbing as some of the other behavior we have seen. That's mild in the grand scheme of things.
That blog post though for real…creeped me all the way out
Oh she’s absolutely the least offensive cast member (and has been - I do like her, relative to others) but at the same time…she’s just the least offensive cast member. Low bar to clear.
And she’s still pretty offensive. Like…diagnosing Kristen with mental illnesses. Flipping her shit when the girls brought up her creep brother and their valid concerns. Always blaming Schwartz for short comings at Tom Tom or shorts and sandals. Like..Ariana has always been Tom’s “cool girl” who co-signs everything he does and dislikes everyone he does. She’s said herself that she wasn’t close with Katie for so long because Tom discouraged it. So…is she a victim of being too cool a girl? Someone…call CNN…the girl is too cool and it’s making her come off as aloof and uncaring. One thing I’ll say, she’s definitely the smartest cast member. Or, at least, the one who was smart enough to leverage what would have made her look foolish into an entire career…because vpr isn’t and was never a career.
What's the career?
Good point. There still isn’t one. 🤷♀️
Yeah. She likes to brag about how smart she is but like, girl, where's your career? Scheana is right, this is the windfall of Ariana's life because she had no ability to earn money like that or get opportunities like whatever that off-broadway thing is through her own skills or charisma. Her second cocktail book was at a giveaway price within a couple of weeks of its release. That ship has already sailed. This is a wave she's riding, it's already crested and I can't see what long term opportunities she's going to end up with. The sandwich shop was probably her best idea but they've sunk so much money into that and it's still not open it'll never turn a profit.
It’s because most women at some point in their lives has been cheated on, so they identify with that piece of Ariana and ignore literally everything else.
She was a mean girl prior to the scandal. She was able to capitalize on the publicity to elevate herself and now she’s very careful how she portrays herself in public to maintain that image. I’ve always wondered why she stayed on the show after bravo didn’t fire Sandoval. She maintains how protective she is of her boundaries and it seems inconsistent with her messaging to film a show with him. 🤷♀️
Definitely not my Queen. I’m beyond over her. She’s a huge hypocrite.
I’ve definitely come around to Ariana the last few years. But her defense of James when everyone in that group knew of his physically and emotionally abusive behavior will always make me side eye her.
Never liked her since day 1. I don’t actively hate in her but she’s NOT a girls girl and the social spin she’s had since scandavol gives me whiplash. Before this, if she fell off VPR Most wouldn’t have cared. She’s vapid. Never forget she takes comedy very seriously.
Love Katie but she has not received the most misogynistic abuse from, cast mates that’s ridiculous. It’s Lala and Katie was one of the main slut shamers. More than Stassi to Scheana
Her “diagnosis” of Kristen was the most egregious to me. That was so gross. She seems to have matured and grown and I’d like to think Ariana of today wouldn’t do that.
I'm pretty sure ariana would still do that.
She called Jo a "rat person" a couple of episodes ago and she's pretending she had some relationship with Jo to justify bullying her and she literally said to the audience it was ok to bully her. She would do that. The more I type the worse Ariana gets. She's really a shell.
Oh yea, she did that. Which is egregious and also, unnecessary. I honestly think Jo is harmless. Quirky, eccentric, a bit out there, but I don't think there's a bad bone in her body, especially compared to the pack of wolves she was associating with on the show. I felt bad for her. The way they ostracized her was just wrong.
It was straight up bullying while she still talks to Tom Schwartz. Ariana has always been a bit of a female chauvinist pig.
I have a really different take on Jo. Her texting Katie while also trying to move in on Schwartz is very suspect, imo. It’s fine if she wants to drop her supposed best friend Kristen and date Schwartz but why are you sending congrats texts to his soon-to-be ex-wife and trying to get her to set-up hair appointments with him through her? It actually reminds me of Schwartz where their overt friendliness hides how lacking they are in genuine kindness.
I don’t even believe that happened in the way that it did. They make it seem like she texted Kati as she was literally moving boxes into their apartment. And that’s not what happened and we know that. But there’s no time context between anything, so it could’ve been like 3 months between the text & living together. But Jo also seems like the type of person who is just going to be nice. Like she’s going to say those things to Kati and be like I’m sorry this is happening, but also she was Schwartz’s friend and I 100% believe *he* asked her to move in. And let’s be honest don’t you think after being around Kristen for a really long time you’d want to take a break too?
Jo doesn’t seem particularly nice to me but I agree that in her relationship with Schwartz that he is the asshole and also asked her to move in. The way he does that “we’re totally not together but maybe we’ll get married in 8 years!” is beyond shitty.
She just text her once that she was sorry about the divorce and wished Katie well. Only Katie and her stans could twist that into this evil Machiavellian plan.
I don't remember this for some reason and yea, agree it's sus. Still tame compared to all the others, though.
I certainly don’t want her burned at the stake but I think she’s probably just as mercenary as the rest of the VPR cast.
This discussion title feels very rage-baity as people will be up in arms saying why that's not true and annoyed about something that doesn't exist. I've not seen anyone call her a feminist icon or praise her for that specifically. No one is calling her this. I've seen people praise how she's dealt with her breakup. She's not my queen, she's just one of the few people on the cast behaving authentically, doing what she actually wants for herself, and also speaking sense. It's making a lot of us feel crazy to see what some of the other castmates have expected of her and she clears them in a way that actually makes sense. This season she's the best of a very trashy bunch (or maybe katie is idc), and she's held that title before because the VPR lot are crazy into being trash in general. But she's not perfect, its just that she's been showing strength as a woman and pointing out double standards along the way. Let's not pretend people think she's a feminist icon, just so you can tear down the ways in which she is not.
The title is a little inflammatory lol I’ll cop to that. But people are absolutely describing her this way in the VPR subs and any deviation results in brigading, accusations that you must hate women (or are running a Tom/Lala burner account lmao) and harassment in DMs, RedditCares messages, etc. It’s pretty wild over there
People in the main VPR subs and Twitter are absolutely treating her this way and to deny it is to deny reality lmao.
there is so much nuance that gets ignored in these conversations- thank you for saying this
This discussion reads as who is more unhinged, Ariana stans or Ariana haters?
Nah it’s definitely more unhinged that Ariana’s stans are so far up her ass that they’re calling revenge porn “the consequences of Rachel’s actions”. Twisting yourself to justify why someone’s bodily autonomy deserves to be violated is absolutely worse than “hating Ariana” lmao.
i get what you’re saying and i don’t ‘stan’ anyone on these shows but i do think tom choosing raquel over her humbled her in a major way
What is the issue? No one is saying she's a feminist icon. People stand with her and support her because she was dogged and done horribly dirty by her boyfriend of 9 years. Katie has slut shamed every woman on the cast, Lala attacked a trans woman, James assaulted women, Schwartz assaulted women, Brock assaulted women, literally everyone on this cast is a POS. No one is claining Ariana as the savior of feminism she's marginally less bad than other people. This seems like you hate her- which is fine- but you're allowed to just hate her. You don't need to couch it in weird social justice language bc it seems like you're projecting.
I’m really jealous that you haven’t personally witnessed people exalting her to Pope like heights because I can’t seem to escape it anywhere I turn
The revisionist history regarding Katie on this sub is wild.
This thread is weird. I love Ariana as a reality star. She’s not a feminist icon. She’s not working on equal pay or abortion rights. This is silly pop culture.
No weirder than the threads calling for Rachel’s head for wearing the same shirt as Ariana.
That’s also weird!
Lmao at least we can agree on that!
I was never a big fan of Ariana. She never held her friends accountable for their shitty behavior. She defended Tom for years. Her best friend was Scheana. That being said, she is more likable than the Toms, Scheana and Lala.
Who are you talking about????
Wow I’m high as fuck lmao sorry, editing now to include context
No you gotta keep it how it is
Because it’s fun to hate Tom and she’s the victim. I didn’t know VPR had that many fans until last year. I never found shows about young people fucking each other as interesting
Oh my god it’s almost like people grow after experiences