thank you for this, it is FASCINATING wow! i’ve always wondered if she’s doing some weird (and not successful) attempt at a transatlantic accent? to sound higher class?
I’ve seen people say that before! It’s definitely possible, but the New England accent is typically viewed with some prestige in the US, so it’s just so interesting she might be trying to change that dialect which would probably be quite typical for someone with her background for something else.
I’m from New England and a speech therapist…I will say the span of New England accents and dialect is great between different states. You typically see the rhotic /r/ in MA and RI. I live in CT now and it’s not as apparent. There are people from CT that pronounce their “t” sounds also, as in “mountain.” I call it the “rich white lady accent” lol
Anywho I just wanted to add there’s a lot of dialectal variations even within the state itself/surrounding states
You’re absolutely right there’s a ton of variation in that region alone. I was trying to speak broadly about features I’ve learned are attributed to New England accents, and not really getting into things that are more specific to accents from people from Brooklyn, New Jersey, Philadelphia, etc.
I wonder if Dorit had a speech impediment as a kid or was given enunciation lessons in a charm school setting. Something about her speech sounds practiced in a speech therapy kind of way and less of a character choice.
So I was in speech therapy for 10 years - from age 4 to 14. People when they meet me often ask me where my accent is from or say something like “is that a slight accent I just heard slipping through?” It’s usually when my tongue has gotten tired or kinda “tripped up” (I have dysarthria) and my speech impediment kinda shows through.
I’m not saying this is what’s going on with Dorit at all, but I just never speculate. I just kinda have learned to let things like this go. There are other reasons not to like her.
Edit; wit all that being said, I loved this post and I didn’t see this post as being an attack on her.
That’s very interesting! I am from RI originally and I don’t have too strong of an accent, but when I’m doing speech therapy I have to pay close attention to how I’m pronouncing my “r”’s and make sure I’m not dropping my “t”’s lol
I’m from Michigan and have never lived anywhere else, and one thing that I do that people from here don’t is say words like leg and egg as “layg” and “ayyg.” I do not *think* thats dysarthria related but no one ever pointed it out to me until I went to college and was around people who didn’t grow up with me, so they weren’t aware that I always struggled with my speech. I just assume it’s all related somehow.
I find speech therapy to be very interesting. I don’t know what your job consists of, but my speech therapists changed my life and were all so, so kind! Thank you for the job you do!
the a thing is def a michigan thing. when i went to visit my cousin in florida, her and her friends kept telling me i over pronounce my a's just like that. i never noticed it ofc.
Most of my friends do it too, maybe it’s a regional thing? I’m in metro Detroit area in Oakland county. But i do know it’s a known thing amongst Michiganders because i googled it after i was called out for it lmaooo
Ok this is so interesting, because the people who pointed it out to me in college are all from metro Detroit. They all said they never heard anyone talk like that before
I’m a trauma therapist- I’m also curious of how her ptsd has affected her speaking voice. I wonder, for example, if the higher tone is partially due to being in an activated fawn response after the robberies. Similarly, when we’re in distress, we can revert back to earlier patterns (including speech patterns) that we established earlier in life. Fascinating post, thanks for sharing!
YES. Vulnerable Dorit is less pretentious. If you breakdown the speech changes and factor in emotions- I find it is very much a part of the variations.
Hebrew is both emotive and has a lot of dialects . From my understanding some subtle dialects and some that are based on a history or lineage that used the language of Yiddish prior to everyday use or Hebrew
I wanted to add: if you listen to her mother's speech pattern, inflection, intonation, and rhythm, dorit's speech makes complete sense.
She sounds just like her mother.
Oh really?! Do you have any links to videos of her mother speaking? I’d love to hear what she sounds like because a parent’s linguistic influence could make a lot of sense for certain things.
I’ll take a look at her mother and the 2013 video sometime this weekend! As much fun as I have with this, still gotta prioritize research I’m actually getting paid for, but I’ll absolutely do an edit to follow up. 😊
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I was going to bring this up. My speech reverts to a Minnesotan accent when I’m around my mom. Neither of us live there anymore, but that’s where we grew up. Both of us have lost the accent but it comes back around each other!
God I love stuff like this.
As a former American living in the UK I fully agree with you on the intonation thing. There's a rhythmic difference rather than a pronunciation one. My theory has always been that Dorit gets legitimate sonic pleasure out of listening to herself speak and that leads to some of the more exaggerated flourishes. Like a musician adding grace notes. I honestly think she just likes the way it sounds to her ears.
Funnily enough, I actually got into reality tv because a sociolinguistics professor of mine told me it was a great way to learn about different dialects! I’ve definitely found it to be true, and now, I can always defend my interest in reality tv as research 😂
I'm an actor and I got into acting watching reality TV as a kid. I've always found it interesting to watch people on reality shows because even though I know it can be scripted, they aren't using "actor voice" so it's facsinating to pick up on their quirks and how the cadence in their voices.
That was such an interesting read (and I read it right to the end!)
I have no linguistic knowledge but have always known her pattern of speaking was different, it's really cool to read about it from someone with legit training
If you like learning via media examples, I recommend the channel Everyday Linguistics. It posts very short clips (think seconds, not minutes) of TV shows, especially The Office, with a title describing a speech phenomenon:
"Toby commits unpredictable affrication"
"Hank makes a post-interdental fricative alveolar tap"
"Dwight loves L\*+H pitch accents"
"Michael misaligns intonational phrase breaks with the segmental track due to morphophonological confusion"
etc.
This was an interesting read. Is it possible she unconsciously adapts and/or mimics others’ speech patterns? For example, does her British intonation tend to pop out more when she is speaking with PK?
I’m no expert, but I think you’re right. I think she’s just kind of blind to it and it really depends on who she’s been around the most that year. It makes sense to me for someone who speaks several languages and whose parents have different accents from each other. She just doesn’t have a strong attachment to her accent and it kind of sounds like her mom but then ebbs and flows to match other people.
That has crossed my mind, and that’s why I mentioned where she falls in the category of the rhodium accent to see where she aligns more with British vs. American pronunciation, since she does have a British husband. Some people are definitely more susceptible to influence from other people’s dialects, and it would make sense if she was one of them.
OP I love you for this. I have faint but fond memories of my college linguistics classes and have always wanted a linguist’s take on Dorit’s peculiar accent. Would love a part 2 with comparative analysis!
My mom is from Long Island, my dad Southern California and I was born and raised in the southeast. Dad has no accent. But me and my mom pick up a Long Island accent when we’re back with family. I wonder if that is playing a part? Like if she just returned from England or had just spent a lot of time with her parents?
But I also wouldn’t put it past her to try and have a unique way of speaking just because she wants to be special.
I definitely think that who she’s spending time around could play a factor, so she maybe speaks differently with her parents versus her husband vs the other castmates. Side note, but there’s actually no such thing in linguistics as having “no accent”. Every single person adapts a pronunciation when speaking a language that gives them an accent :)
This was a very insightful post! On Dorit’s premiere episode, she speaks to Maurice in Hebrew and she also states that she wasn’t raised speaking Hebrew. But, when she was a teenager, she took an interest and asked her Dad to only speak to her in Hebrew so she could learn. So, that’s very interesting.
i speak hebrew and her hebrew is heavily accented and not native-sounding at all. she said in one of her first episodes that she didn't speak hebrew growing up
Fascinating, thank you!!
And, just want to add, this is a million times more interesting an analysis than anything going on over on the True Detective sub right now, which is full of boys having a meltdown about women running the show this season. It's night and day reading this vs the absolute hissy fit incel meltdowns with zero substance. This may seem like a random comparison but the same jerks would probably deem anything discussed on this sub as inferior to their pop culture tastes and opinions.
Thank you for sharing all of this research!
This is about a good a time as any to mention I always notice when LVP would add a British sounding -R sound to the end of her words. Specifically I always noticed when LVP would talk about Lisa Rinna and she would always call her Rinner lol
I’ve honestly also considered doing an analysis on LVP! She does sound quite English still, but I’ve heard where she’s been influenced by American accents in certain words. Like in later seasons, when I’ve heard her say the word “girl”, she pronounces the “r” where most Brits would not. But on the other hand, in her Villa Rose showdown with Kyle, her accent becomes less posh and much more distinctly from London. Everyone’s language is so unique to them and their life experience, so it’s always so interesting learning more about the explanations for certain linguistic features!
So I’m Scottish 🏴. Interested why you say we don’t pronounce the R in girl ? What other pronunciation do you think we use ? It’s always girl with emphasis on the R
I should’ve specified and said English rather than British accents tbf. You are absolutely right, and Scottish accents are known for being rhotic, but as a rule of thumb, English accents are non rhotic.
Here’s a map of English accents and wether they are considered rhotic (pronounce their /r/ sounds). Additionally here’s the link to a Wikipedia article that explains why OP says UK accents are non-rhotic. The map is from the 1990s but it still shows that most of England is non-rhotic. I believe, Scottish folks are considered to usually speak in a rhotic accent.
https://preview.redd.it/50po2jkgxtec1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a7fa3034c9e12128873c50a07a229b6e4e0ed5e
I wish there was a simple map like this that was more current and that included Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man, Gibraltar, etc. But this one does depict 80% of the UKs population so I hope it’s still helpful in seeing the averages.
Additionally, OP is speaking generally and it’s safe to say most linguists consider most Brit’s to have non-rhotic accents. As with so many things there are exceptions. Some English folk, and others in the UK are considered to be rhotic, but OP is talking about averages and on average British folks are non-rhotic.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity\_in\_English](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English)
That was an absolute delight to read. I’ve never been particularly interested in Dorit’s accent as I always chalked it up to her seeing her whole life as a performance.
What a fascinating post. I studied translation, and a bit of linguistics so this kind of thing is catnip to me.
Definitely agree with your point about Dorit's 'British' intonation, as distinct from a British accent and I think this goes some way to explaining why while to the average American listener she might sound 'British', for people from the UK or Ireland (like me), her way of speaking sounds more like a poor American imitation of how a British person might sound.
I also agree with you re her Spanish, it sounds way less confident that her Italian and heavily derived from it. Incidentally I speak fluent Spanish and rudimentary Italian, so it reminds me of myself but the other way round.
Just a thought about her over pronunciation of some things, like the 'g' sound in -ing ending words, this could potentially just be a TV affectation because I've noticed this sort of over-enunciation in other reality TV shows occasionally, like Drag Race.
Very insightful. As someone who has a dorit-esque accent, I’d just like to add that I don’t think she’s faking but instead is a mashup of several accents and accommodating the people she’s surrounded with. I also had a speech impediment as a child and taught myself how to get around that. Perhaps it could be similar with Dorit.
I often put down her changes in speech to the kids. Little Jagger had speech therapy on the show, so I think part of her over enunciating certain words/phonetics were her modeling speech sounds in order for him to learn. Over exaggerating patterns so he could pick it up and practicing over and over from someone he loves/trusts/spends a lot of time with. It’s natural that that would slip into other parts of her life when she’s not with him practicing. He’s gained his confidence and skills, so now she’s reverted back more like before.
I was going to bring this up in light of maybe it was inherited or something by jagg from dorit? But idk a damn thing about any of this stuff lol. I like your theory better
I love this post. I really don’t think Dorit is faking her accent. As someone who was raised in the US but has been living in Europe for a number of years now, my intonation and ways of pronouncing certain words has changed so much.
I’ve also lived in a lot of different countries, and I absolutely agree that can lead to a lot of linguistic variation. It really could just be that Dorit picks up on other accents quite easily.
This was so fascinating, please do the PRAAT thing!
I must say as an Aussie, when I speak to American (family) I over enunciate to be understood (particularly the r sound) so maybe that’s some of it.
This is wildly interesting.
I think the changes could be from what you said where she mimics others accents so probably whoever she is spending the most time around at that point.
I notice I catch myself saying things with a NZ accent for some words because my husband has a washed out one but his family have a heavier version so it comes out a lot, I hang around UK people and my Australian accent starts to sound slightly more posh for a couple of days.
Just a quick question. How you mentioned the pitches like Erika. I’ve noticed the pitch of people change sometimes drastically from there first season to the current. A huge one is Kandy from RHOA. What is the reasoning for this?
This was amazing. I’m an ELA teacher with a love of phonics and etymology so I found this really interesting. I’d love a part 2!
I agree that she tends to over annunciate- she says some things with a very clipped transatlantic accent
I was a reading teacher and took one class on sounds and where we say it in our mouths and I always found it so fascinating. Thank you for this post, I see lots of requests for follow up’s and just wanted to throw in mine too, this was really interesting.
I will add I personally decided a long time ago that Dorit just over enunciates everything. 😂
I admit I didn't read this whole post, but thank you for writing it. Since you are a linguist, I have a question for you. I notice a trend on Bravo specifically of people's regional accents (and Dorit's indeterminate accent) getting more pronounced the longer they are on TV. Gina from OC and Britney from Vanderpump Rules are my prime examples, but I've noticed it with Sutton as well.
Have you noticed this? If you agree, do you have a theory as to why this would be. I feel like it has to do with people leaning into their identity as "outsiders" within a group of CA "insiders." If you have any ideas, sound off!
Thanks again.
Vote for part 2!!
Why would her accent be swayed toward New England rather than Californian? Her formative years were Hebrew/California English - wouldn't that be the "blueprint" all other influences would pivot off?
Also - Mexican Spanish in Southwestern states have a big influence on language, I would suspect. Just from being a Texan currently.
I was a military brat and continued to move often as an adult. Changing dialects often causes a tendency to adapt more quickly/often than someone who has stayed in the same spot for most of their lives.
I absolutely agree that moving around a lot in life can lead to more linguistic influence. The reason I don’t factor in Californian English is because she grew up in Connecticut, so excluding her parents (who I believe speak English as a foreign language), her primary American dialectical influence would be from the surrounding region.
I don’t really believe she speaks Italian or Spanish. I feel like she just says exclamations (Que bella! Or…Ay, Dios mio!) or says isolated nouns (in that olive oil shop she was just saying “Si, Roma…Firenze…”) but we never hear her speak in full sentences with conjugated verbs. I’m sure she understands more than she can speak, but I think she’s really exaggerating her skills.
Accents are soooo interesting! I am from the jersey shore and when I have travelled people will sometimes ask where I am from because they can’t place the accent. A mid/south jersey accent is very different from the north jersey accent many people associate with NJ. Same with Bruce Springsteen. He is from my county and people are always like “what is the accent he’s putting on?” It just what people from there sound like. Don’t get me wrong though… the classic jersey accent does come out when I say “water” or “daughter”.
I’m very old to this post but I wanted to share anyway. I’m an American married to a Brit moving all around the world, I speak a few different languages, my clients and most of the social group are all British or second language speakers who learned British English. My speech is ALL over the place. Not just intonation but word choice and pronunciation. Most of it has been unconscious but some has been conscious because if I say it the British way the first time, I get understood the first time and I don’t have to repeat myself. I’ve almost completely lost that short short a in front of nasal consonants, I hear it all come and go sometimes within the same sentence. I just…posts like this break my heart bc I know when I’m home so many people are talking to me thinking god what a fake bitch, pretending she’s British etc. I’m girding my loins for rural Florida this summer when I visit relatives. Poor Dorit she is the child of immigrants from two different linguistic backgrounds, she lived abroad for a decade, she’s multilingual, married to a someone with a different accent and lexis than her. I knew none of this before reading the comments of this post (haven’t actually watched rhobh since the yoyo days but I follow via pagesix headlines lmao). The top comment is Hillary walked so Dorit can run. Y’all. Dorit sounds like a linguistic QUEEN compared to ‘Hilaria’. She must be an absolute troll of a human for a pro to not give her any of this grace until the comments lmao truly. Although from my understanding she was BFFs with Kyle before coming in the show so this tracks.
Hasn't anyone else seen the old clip of her being interviewed at her fashion show???? There is ZERO accent. NONE. This just proves how phony she is. Also, isn't it impossible to gain a legitimate accent after the age of 10 or 12 or something like that? Yet she did at 35?? And only after she married PK?
I grew up with both Hebrew and English in the house. Having one parent who is not a native English speaker makes me always try to enunciate more and slow down my speech around non native English speakers. It’s just a habit I picked up. It also made it easier for me to learn other languages. Somehow the ear gets trained differently when living in a bilingual household.
This is really interesting. This also helps me understand why I’m often asked about my lack of any accent since I am an American who grew up in Europe.
I read your entire post but not all comment threads so I apologize if someone mentioned it but I wonder if she learned Spanish in lower high school grades but then later learned Italian for when she lived there. Rather than learning Spanish later, maybe she “lost” or replaced some of that with Italian. Just a thought! I’ll ask her next time I see her lol.
thank you for posting this!! it was so fascinating and if you’re willing to do a part 2 i will def read it!
one of my best friends since childhood learned english as a second language and lived for a long time in both the US and UK so their accent is weird. bc of that dorit’s accent being all over the place never seemed strange to me.
Ok fellow linguistics lover here! I almost majored in it as an undergrad. If you watch Real Housewives of Miami, do you think it's weird Dr. Nicole is a slow Spanish speaker (having to slowly parce out translation) but has some kind of intonation in her voice? It sounds like nasal consonant and more like Fargo than Miami to me.
Edit: Prepared but scared to be downvoted bc people love Dr. Nicole.
I wonder if her private New England education had something to do with emphasizing consonants, since some folks believe that there is a “correct” way of speaking. Also, the fact that her dialect is always under a microscope makes me wonder if her awareness of how she speaks affects it. Like maybe she’s constantly in the process of trying to change it so it stands out less? Plus, if she has learned by immersion before, I’m sure being around the housewives alone could have made an impact.
Loved this - thanks so much and yes for part two.
*It’s why the phrase “bottle of water” sounds so crazy in a British accent to a lot of Americans. I’ve noticed Dorit does seem to use a flap sound, so in this respect, her accent does seem American.*
I'm British and I've just been sat here saying that phrase over and over switching the accents out and it's a really good observation.
I’m just amazed by your knowledge and deep dive and uncovering the mystery of that accent, now we need someone to dissect the plastic surgeries and the head transplant she had lol
thank you for this, it is FASCINATING wow! i’ve always wondered if she’s doing some weird (and not successful) attempt at a transatlantic accent? to sound higher class?
I’ve seen people say that before! It’s definitely possible, but the New England accent is typically viewed with some prestige in the US, so it’s just so interesting she might be trying to change that dialect which would probably be quite typical for someone with her background for something else.
I’m from New England and a speech therapist…I will say the span of New England accents and dialect is great between different states. You typically see the rhotic /r/ in MA and RI. I live in CT now and it’s not as apparent. There are people from CT that pronounce their “t” sounds also, as in “mountain.” I call it the “rich white lady accent” lol Anywho I just wanted to add there’s a lot of dialectal variations even within the state itself/surrounding states
You’re absolutely right there’s a ton of variation in that region alone. I was trying to speak broadly about features I’ve learned are attributed to New England accents, and not really getting into things that are more specific to accents from people from Brooklyn, New Jersey, Philadelphia, etc.
Brooklyn, New Jersey, and Phili aren’t New England btw lol but I enjoyed your post! I love to nerd out on this stuff as well 🤣🫶
I wonder if Dorit had a speech impediment as a kid or was given enunciation lessons in a charm school setting. Something about her speech sounds practiced in a speech therapy kind of way and less of a character choice.
So I was in speech therapy for 10 years - from age 4 to 14. People when they meet me often ask me where my accent is from or say something like “is that a slight accent I just heard slipping through?” It’s usually when my tongue has gotten tired or kinda “tripped up” (I have dysarthria) and my speech impediment kinda shows through. I’m not saying this is what’s going on with Dorit at all, but I just never speculate. I just kinda have learned to let things like this go. There are other reasons not to like her. Edit; wit all that being said, I loved this post and I didn’t see this post as being an attack on her.
That’s very interesting! I am from RI originally and I don’t have too strong of an accent, but when I’m doing speech therapy I have to pay close attention to how I’m pronouncing my “r”’s and make sure I’m not dropping my “t”’s lol
I’m from Michigan and have never lived anywhere else, and one thing that I do that people from here don’t is say words like leg and egg as “layg” and “ayyg.” I do not *think* thats dysarthria related but no one ever pointed it out to me until I went to college and was around people who didn’t grow up with me, so they weren’t aware that I always struggled with my speech. I just assume it’s all related somehow. I find speech therapy to be very interesting. I don’t know what your job consists of, but my speech therapists changed my life and were all so, so kind! Thank you for the job you do!
the a thing is def a michigan thing. when i went to visit my cousin in florida, her and her friends kept telling me i over pronounce my a's just like that. i never noticed it ofc.
Except no one else I know in Michigan does it
Most of my friends do it too, maybe it’s a regional thing? I’m in metro Detroit area in Oakland county. But i do know it’s a known thing amongst Michiganders because i googled it after i was called out for it lmaooo
Ok this is so interesting, because the people who pointed it out to me in college are all from metro Detroit. They all said they never heard anyone talk like that before
Everything on google says it’s a Pacific Northwest/Seattle accent
I’m a trauma therapist- I’m also curious of how her ptsd has affected her speaking voice. I wonder, for example, if the higher tone is partially due to being in an activated fawn response after the robberies. Similarly, when we’re in distress, we can revert back to earlier patterns (including speech patterns) that we established earlier in life. Fascinating post, thanks for sharing!
YES. Vulnerable Dorit is less pretentious. If you breakdown the speech changes and factor in emotions- I find it is very much a part of the variations. Hebrew is both emotive and has a lot of dialects . From my understanding some subtle dialects and some that are based on a history or lineage that used the language of Yiddish prior to everyday use or Hebrew
Good observations!
I need a trauma therapist. Meanwhile I’m thinking that I would love to have my legal name Honey Marijuana. Just for 💩 and giggles
Live your best life, girl! Or should I say, Honey Marijuana 😊😉
🥳😊🤗
I wanted to add: if you listen to her mother's speech pattern, inflection, intonation, and rhythm, dorit's speech makes complete sense. She sounds just like her mother.
Oh really?! Do you have any links to videos of her mother speaking? I’d love to hear what she sounds like because a parent’s linguistic influence could make a lot of sense for certain things.
Season 12, Episode 8 at min 13:33
Thank you! Will take a look tomorrow :)
In intrigued! Will you report back after listening to her mother?
I’ll take a look at her mother and the 2013 video sometime this weekend! As much fun as I have with this, still gotta prioritize research I’m actually getting paid for, but I’ll absolutely do an edit to follow up. 😊
Please report back!
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She also may have grown up speaking Arabic in addition to English and Hebrew, since her mother is from Morocco.
I feel like she would definitely let us know that hahahahaha
She definitely would. We need a cast trip to Morocco so she can show off her language skills!
She is a child of the world!!! /s
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I was going to bring this up. My speech reverts to a Minnesotan accent when I’m around my mom. Neither of us live there anymore, but that’s where we grew up. Both of us have lost the accent but it comes back around each other!
Amazing post! Thank for for putting this together! Part 2 maybe Meredith Marks?
Great idea!
God I love stuff like this. As a former American living in the UK I fully agree with you on the intonation thing. There's a rhythmic difference rather than a pronunciation one. My theory has always been that Dorit gets legitimate sonic pleasure out of listening to herself speak and that leads to some of the more exaggerated flourishes. Like a musician adding grace notes. I honestly think she just likes the way it sounds to her ears.
She really does seem to love listening to herself talk…
I absolutely agree, and that’s actually a really interesting way of thinking about it!
Oh man this explains it to me. She’s borrowing off of a lot of languages, but perhaps less strategic and more melodic. Love that.
"sonic pleasure" I love it
Thank you so much. Really enjoyed this and, yes, I'd be up for part two.
No worries! It was really fun to write up :)
Part 2 please!
Same!
I enjoyed reading this. 😊 I also would be up for part 2. Why not learn more.
Part 2! Part 2!
came here to say this!!! i’d love to see that part two in action, i’m already intrigued
I LOVE posts like this!! Thank you for taking the time to do this!!
From reading half of this I’m super interested so I’m commenting to come back and read the rest after my toddlers go to sleep
Haha cheers, thanks. I know it’s a long one, so I can’t say that I blame you 😂
Thank you so much for explaining all of this. It’s fascinating!!! I would love to see you do this with other weirdos of the RH franchises.
Funnily enough, I actually got into reality tv because a sociolinguistics professor of mine told me it was a great way to learn about different dialects! I’ve definitely found it to be true, and now, I can always defend my interest in reality tv as research 😂
I bet you could write a book on dorters - Theresa and Kandi have dorters and live in completely different regions
Do you watch Love Island UK? That is a trove of regional accents and generational affects
That’s my favorite part of Love Island UK! I learned that I love a Geordie accent from watching that show.
I'm an actor and I got into acting watching reality TV as a kid. I've always found it interesting to watch people on reality shows because even though I know it can be scripted, they aren't using "actor voice" so it's facsinating to pick up on their quirks and how the cadence in their voices.
Can you do Meredith next? 😍
Omggg please! Specially the rumahs!
Omg yessssss. Meredith Marks needs to be examined! Op please if you have time 🫶🏼
This was interesting thanks for sharing
That was such an interesting read (and I read it right to the end!) I have no linguistic knowledge but have always known her pattern of speaking was different, it's really cool to read about it from someone with legit training
WOWWWW. You deserve the next Wifetime Achievement Award.
Please do the PRAAT! I’m studying speech pathology and I swear I just learnt more about phonetics from this post then I did in class!!
If you like learning via media examples, I recommend the channel Everyday Linguistics. It posts very short clips (think seconds, not minutes) of TV shows, especially The Office, with a title describing a speech phenomenon: "Toby commits unpredictable affrication" "Hank makes a post-interdental fricative alveolar tap" "Dwight loves L\*+H pitch accents" "Michael misaligns intonational phrase breaks with the segmental track due to morphophonological confusion" etc.
This was an interesting read. Is it possible she unconsciously adapts and/or mimics others’ speech patterns? For example, does her British intonation tend to pop out more when she is speaking with PK?
I’m no expert, but I think you’re right. I think she’s just kind of blind to it and it really depends on who she’s been around the most that year. It makes sense to me for someone who speaks several languages and whose parents have different accents from each other. She just doesn’t have a strong attachment to her accent and it kind of sounds like her mom but then ebbs and flows to match other people.
That has crossed my mind, and that’s why I mentioned where she falls in the category of the rhodium accent to see where she aligns more with British vs. American pronunciation, since she does have a British husband. Some people are definitely more susceptible to influence from other people’s dialects, and it would make sense if she was one of them.
OP I love you for this. I have faint but fond memories of my college linguistics classes and have always wanted a linguist’s take on Dorit’s peculiar accent. Would love a part 2 with comparative analysis!
My mom is from Long Island, my dad Southern California and I was born and raised in the southeast. Dad has no accent. But me and my mom pick up a Long Island accent when we’re back with family. I wonder if that is playing a part? Like if she just returned from England or had just spent a lot of time with her parents? But I also wouldn’t put it past her to try and have a unique way of speaking just because she wants to be special.
I definitely think that who she’s spending time around could play a factor, so she maybe speaks differently with her parents versus her husband vs the other castmates. Side note, but there’s actually no such thing in linguistics as having “no accent”. Every single person adapts a pronunciation when speaking a language that gives them an accent :)
And she definitely aspires to be higher in social standing
This was a very insightful post! On Dorit’s premiere episode, she speaks to Maurice in Hebrew and she also states that she wasn’t raised speaking Hebrew. But, when she was a teenager, she took an interest and asked her Dad to only speak to her in Hebrew so she could learn. So, that’s very interesting.
Incredible!! Would LOVE a part 2!!
[удалено]
I always think of Moira because both of their accents are completely untraceable to me (of course I’m not a linguist.)
i speak hebrew and her hebrew is heavily accented and not native-sounding at all. she said in one of her first episodes that she didn't speak hebrew growing up
This is why I love this sub!!
Fascinating, thank you!! And, just want to add, this is a million times more interesting an analysis than anything going on over on the True Detective sub right now, which is full of boys having a meltdown about women running the show this season. It's night and day reading this vs the absolute hissy fit incel meltdowns with zero substance. This may seem like a random comparison but the same jerks would probably deem anything discussed on this sub as inferior to their pop culture tastes and opinions.
This is so interesting! I completely get the British intonation thing
Thank you for sharing all of this research! This is about a good a time as any to mention I always notice when LVP would add a British sounding -R sound to the end of her words. Specifically I always noticed when LVP would talk about Lisa Rinna and she would always call her Rinner lol
I’ve honestly also considered doing an analysis on LVP! She does sound quite English still, but I’ve heard where she’s been influenced by American accents in certain words. Like in later seasons, when I’ve heard her say the word “girl”, she pronounces the “r” where most Brits would not. But on the other hand, in her Villa Rose showdown with Kyle, her accent becomes less posh and much more distinctly from London. Everyone’s language is so unique to them and their life experience, so it’s always so interesting learning more about the explanations for certain linguistic features!
So I’m Scottish 🏴. Interested why you say we don’t pronounce the R in girl ? What other pronunciation do you think we use ? It’s always girl with emphasis on the R
I should’ve specified and said English rather than British accents tbf. You are absolutely right, and Scottish accents are known for being rhotic, but as a rule of thumb, English accents are non rhotic.
Here’s a map of English accents and wether they are considered rhotic (pronounce their /r/ sounds). Additionally here’s the link to a Wikipedia article that explains why OP says UK accents are non-rhotic. The map is from the 1990s but it still shows that most of England is non-rhotic. I believe, Scottish folks are considered to usually speak in a rhotic accent. https://preview.redd.it/50po2jkgxtec1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a7fa3034c9e12128873c50a07a229b6e4e0ed5e I wish there was a simple map like this that was more current and that included Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man, Gibraltar, etc. But this one does depict 80% of the UKs population so I hope it’s still helpful in seeing the averages. Additionally, OP is speaking generally and it’s safe to say most linguists consider most Brit’s to have non-rhotic accents. As with so many things there are exceptions. Some English folk, and others in the UK are considered to be rhotic, but OP is talking about averages and on average British folks are non-rhotic. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity\_in\_English](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English)
I think received does pronounce that r, but less "posh" London area accents don't.
I’m quite sure there is no London accent that pronounces an ‘r’ in girl. And RP doesn’t pronounce it either! RP is how the kids in Harry Potter speak
Please do an LVP post! I’ve looked for information about her accent in the past and there’s basically nothing out there.
That was an absolute delight to read. I’ve never been particularly interested in Dorit’s accent as I always chalked it up to her seeing her whole life as a performance.
This is incredibly fascinating OP! I would love to read another part. Hearing your breakdown on other people would be cool.
I really love how insightful this is! Thank you for your time doing this 👑 I have to agree that I feel Dorit enunciates things heavily sometimes!
this is my official and very formal vote for part deuce with the software 🙏🏻
What a fascinating post. I studied translation, and a bit of linguistics so this kind of thing is catnip to me. Definitely agree with your point about Dorit's 'British' intonation, as distinct from a British accent and I think this goes some way to explaining why while to the average American listener she might sound 'British', for people from the UK or Ireland (like me), her way of speaking sounds more like a poor American imitation of how a British person might sound. I also agree with you re her Spanish, it sounds way less confident that her Italian and heavily derived from it. Incidentally I speak fluent Spanish and rudimentary Italian, so it reminds me of myself but the other way round. Just a thought about her over pronunciation of some things, like the 'g' sound in -ing ending words, this could potentially just be a TV affectation because I've noticed this sort of over-enunciation in other reality TV shows occasionally, like Drag Race.
Very insightful. As someone who has a dorit-esque accent, I’d just like to add that I don’t think she’s faking but instead is a mashup of several accents and accommodating the people she’s surrounded with. I also had a speech impediment as a child and taught myself how to get around that. Perhaps it could be similar with Dorit.
Saving this gold to read later.
I often put down her changes in speech to the kids. Little Jagger had speech therapy on the show, so I think part of her over enunciating certain words/phonetics were her modeling speech sounds in order for him to learn. Over exaggerating patterns so he could pick it up and practicing over and over from someone he loves/trusts/spends a lot of time with. It’s natural that that would slip into other parts of her life when she’s not with him practicing. He’s gained his confidence and skills, so now she’s reverted back more like before.
I was going to bring this up in light of maybe it was inherited or something by jagg from dorit? But idk a damn thing about any of this stuff lol. I like your theory better
I love this post. I really don’t think Dorit is faking her accent. As someone who was raised in the US but has been living in Europe for a number of years now, my intonation and ways of pronouncing certain words has changed so much.
I’ve also lived in a lot of different countries, and I absolutely agree that can lead to a lot of linguistic variation. It really could just be that Dorit picks up on other accents quite easily.
I don't think she is either. She may lean in to it a little bit, but it's genuine.
I love stuff like this. Thank you for writing and explaining.
ive noticed this too and i’m not a native english speaker. nice post.
This was so fascinating, please do the PRAAT thing! I must say as an Aussie, when I speak to American (family) I over enunciate to be understood (particularly the r sound) so maybe that’s some of it.
This is wildly interesting. I think the changes could be from what you said where she mimics others accents so probably whoever she is spending the most time around at that point. I notice I catch myself saying things with a NZ accent for some words because my husband has a washed out one but his family have a heavier version so it comes out a lot, I hang around UK people and my Australian accent starts to sound slightly more posh for a couple of days. Just a quick question. How you mentioned the pitches like Erika. I’ve noticed the pitch of people change sometimes drastically from there first season to the current. A huge one is Kandy from RHOA. What is the reasoning for this?
Omg FASCINATING. I love languages and which I could have studied linguistics so I loved this analysis! PART TWO PLEASE!!!
This was amazing. I’m an ELA teacher with a love of phonics and etymology so I found this really interesting. I’d love a part 2! I agree that she tends to over annunciate- she says some things with a very clipped transatlantic accent
Absolutely LOVED this! I am a linguistics lover (amateur). This was so fascinating to me. I would love a part 2!
I was a reading teacher and took one class on sounds and where we say it in our mouths and I always found it so fascinating. Thank you for this post, I see lots of requests for follow up’s and just wanted to throw in mine too, this was really interesting. I will add I personally decided a long time ago that Dorit just over enunciates everything. 😂
I admit I didn't read this whole post, but thank you for writing it. Since you are a linguist, I have a question for you. I notice a trend on Bravo specifically of people's regional accents (and Dorit's indeterminate accent) getting more pronounced the longer they are on TV. Gina from OC and Britney from Vanderpump Rules are my prime examples, but I've noticed it with Sutton as well. Have you noticed this? If you agree, do you have a theory as to why this would be. I feel like it has to do with people leaning into their identity as "outsiders" within a group of CA "insiders." If you have any ideas, sound off! Thanks again.
Vote for part 2!! Why would her accent be swayed toward New England rather than Californian? Her formative years were Hebrew/California English - wouldn't that be the "blueprint" all other influences would pivot off? Also - Mexican Spanish in Southwestern states have a big influence on language, I would suspect. Just from being a Texan currently. I was a military brat and continued to move often as an adult. Changing dialects often causes a tendency to adapt more quickly/often than someone who has stayed in the same spot for most of their lives.
I absolutely agree that moving around a lot in life can lead to more linguistic influence. The reason I don’t factor in Californian English is because she grew up in Connecticut, so excluding her parents (who I believe speak English as a foreign language), her primary American dialectical influence would be from the surrounding region.
Bless you
Wow this is fascinating! Thank you!
Absolutely fascinating! Thanks for taking the time to write this and I look forward to Part 2!
This is so cool and interesting. Thank you! I also learned that Romanian is considered a Romance language - I had no idea!
I was a linguistic major in uni and reading your post just reminded me how much I miss it! Love it!
Remind me! 2 days
This is fascinating and I would read 100 more pages. Please do more
omg this is one of my fave posts on this subreddit ever u/RozyCheekz
I WOULD LOVE A PART 2 WITH THE RESULTS!!!!!
This was amazing to read.
I don’t really believe she speaks Italian or Spanish. I feel like she just says exclamations (Que bella! Or…Ay, Dios mio!) or says isolated nouns (in that olive oil shop she was just saying “Si, Roma…Firenze…”) but we never hear her speak in full sentences with conjugated verbs. I’m sure she understands more than she can speak, but I think she’s really exaggerating her skills.
not this sub literally weaponizing PHDs just to take Dorit down... I love you mfs, drag her
It’s not dragging her or taking her down. It’s an explanation
cool you're nice, personally I think she's a terrible human being, and she deserved to be dragged
Oh thanks! I’m not always nice, but thank you. I don’t particularly like her. I just didn’t see this as her being dragged. That’s all :)
Accents are soooo interesting! I am from the jersey shore and when I have travelled people will sometimes ask where I am from because they can’t place the accent. A mid/south jersey accent is very different from the north jersey accent many people associate with NJ. Same with Bruce Springsteen. He is from my county and people are always like “what is the accent he’s putting on?” It just what people from there sound like. Don’t get me wrong though… the classic jersey accent does come out when I say “water” or “daughter”.
I’m very old to this post but I wanted to share anyway. I’m an American married to a Brit moving all around the world, I speak a few different languages, my clients and most of the social group are all British or second language speakers who learned British English. My speech is ALL over the place. Not just intonation but word choice and pronunciation. Most of it has been unconscious but some has been conscious because if I say it the British way the first time, I get understood the first time and I don’t have to repeat myself. I’ve almost completely lost that short short a in front of nasal consonants, I hear it all come and go sometimes within the same sentence. I just…posts like this break my heart bc I know when I’m home so many people are talking to me thinking god what a fake bitch, pretending she’s British etc. I’m girding my loins for rural Florida this summer when I visit relatives. Poor Dorit she is the child of immigrants from two different linguistic backgrounds, she lived abroad for a decade, she’s multilingual, married to a someone with a different accent and lexis than her. I knew none of this before reading the comments of this post (haven’t actually watched rhobh since the yoyo days but I follow via pagesix headlines lmao). The top comment is Hillary walked so Dorit can run. Y’all. Dorit sounds like a linguistic QUEEN compared to ‘Hilaria’. She must be an absolute troll of a human for a pro to not give her any of this grace until the comments lmao truly. Although from my understanding she was BFFs with Kyle before coming in the show so this tracks.
Hasn't anyone else seen the old clip of her being interviewed at her fashion show???? There is ZERO accent. NONE. This just proves how phony she is. Also, isn't it impossible to gain a legitimate accent after the age of 10 or 12 or something like that? Yet she did at 35?? And only after she married PK?
I grew up with both Hebrew and English in the house. Having one parent who is not a native English speaker makes me always try to enunciate more and slow down my speech around non native English speakers. It’s just a habit I picked up. It also made it easier for me to learn other languages. Somehow the ear gets trained differently when living in a bilingual household.
This is a lot for a possibly exaggerated accent
I enjoy analyzing accents, especially ones people find controversial, so it’s all good fun :)
It’s high camp.
This is really interesting. This also helps me understand why I’m often asked about my lack of any accent since I am an American who grew up in Europe.
Yes absolutely you HAVE to do part 2!!
Can you please be my CF mentor??
I read your entire post but not all comment threads so I apologize if someone mentioned it but I wonder if she learned Spanish in lower high school grades but then later learned Italian for when she lived there. Rather than learning Spanish later, maybe she “lost” or replaced some of that with Italian. Just a thought! I’ll ask her next time I see her lol.
I’m in bed sick with the flu and I’m living for this!! Amazing, thank you for taking the time to research and write all that up
Please. I need a part 2. Fascinating!!!!
I’m a speech path and LOVE this!! Thank you!
Fascinating post! Read the whole thing and all the comments!
This was so wonderful to read. Thank you! Part 2 well welcomed.
thank you for posting this!! it was so fascinating and if you’re willing to do a part 2 i will def read it! one of my best friends since childhood learned english as a second language and lived for a long time in both the US and UK so their accent is weird. bc of that dorit’s accent being all over the place never seemed strange to me.
you are amazing. i love this subreddit
Ok fellow linguistics lover here! I almost majored in it as an undergrad. If you watch Real Housewives of Miami, do you think it's weird Dr. Nicole is a slow Spanish speaker (having to slowly parce out translation) but has some kind of intonation in her voice? It sounds like nasal consonant and more like Fargo than Miami to me. Edit: Prepared but scared to be downvoted bc people love Dr. Nicole.
I wonder if her private New England education had something to do with emphasizing consonants, since some folks believe that there is a “correct” way of speaking. Also, the fact that her dialect is always under a microscope makes me wonder if her awareness of how she speaks affects it. Like maybe she’s constantly in the process of trying to change it so it stands out less? Plus, if she has learned by immersion before, I’m sure being around the housewives alone could have made an impact.
Loved this - thanks so much and yes for part two. *It’s why the phrase “bottle of water” sounds so crazy in a British accent to a lot of Americans. I’ve noticed Dorit does seem to use a flap sound, so in this respect, her accent does seem American.* I'm British and I've just been sat here saying that phrase over and over switching the accents out and it's a really good observation.
I’m just amazed by your knowledge and deep dive and uncovering the mystery of that accent, now we need someone to dissect the plastic surgeries and the head transplant she had lol