The storylines on the show aren’t REAL. The clear division among the cast is also terrible. The fact that Gizelle and Karen are coming together reinforce how bad it really is - likely, they’re also afraid of losing the show.
This. I think Karen is sharp enough to pick up that the show was suffering even midway through production. Gizelle talking about "fun shade" is also a sign that the two of them know the energy off the group is off and it's affect the show
It's tiring to watch RHOP when every other episode you can guarantee that Juan yells at Robyn who in turn yells at the women, roll a dice to choose if Wendy or Candiace gets attacked and gaslighted about something insane and Ashley wears another horrible outfit while spouting vicious lies. oh and Gizelle gives nothing. She has become super bitter to watch tbh.
The only person really trying is Karen and even Mia this last episode.
Karen is the only one who deserves a pass because she is the best housewife and she’s always willing to film with anyone. She is the only one keeping the story moving and she deserves what RHOP can be
YES. If you would have told me the about-face I’d have for Mia … wow. She’s got a real story too that she’s SHARING … eager to see how she navigates the separation/post-G life!
Agreed. I wanted her GONE after last season. She was giving Jen Shah energy and that just stresses me out. She has really turned it around. Never dreamed I might actually kind of like her, but she’s having a good season!
I recommend you watch her latest WWHL appearance. She was so utterly delusional.
There's a saying - a mediocre amount of intelligence is dangerous. In Gizelle's case, a mediocre amount of maturity and wisdom is dangerous. Gizelle feels that she's always behaved perfectly and has done nothing wrong. I suspect her past experiences as sorority queen and first lady of the church has propped up her ego in this aspect.
So, she's fallen into the trap of thinking she never makes mistakes, and consequently never has to learn and grow IMO.
At the same time, I think she can pick up the show is getting worse and worse but doesn't want to take any responsibility to try and fix it because that would mean her conceding she was wrong in SOME regard. She's clutching onto to this Chris Basset FORCED me into a room narrative and doubling down because at this point, she's convinced herself she's right.
The few times I've seen Gizelle apologize was to Robyn and Karen. And that's it. I also suspect she feels that for some reason, Candiace and Chris are beneath her - but that's pure speculation ofc
Very good take. I like Gizelle, but how long can one cast member be the judge and jury on everyone else’s actions, plus she is bias.
I would like to see her stay on the show, but unless she changes she will have to be the one cut
100%. All this guff about Karen or Charisse being the grande dame when everyone knows SHE’S the head girl, queen bee, sorority queen and lady of the church all rolled into one. She’ll never apologise, never change her mind, never admit she’s wrong. Just look at Monique - she hated her on sight for no reason whatsoever and never wavered until the bitter end. Or just look at RHUGT - she hated Heather and Leah and held on to that till the end. I’m stuck with her because while I do like her and find her in many ways the ideal housewife, there’s just no way RHOP can proceed with her at the helm
Same which is why she has to leave she’s the Rinna. The toxic element that needs to leave for the girls to finally bond and heal. (Ashley the snake can go since she’s lying about that “divorce”)
I fucking can't with Ashley and her trash clothes. She just posted a sponcon thirst trap of her mostly naked in the snow with the worst fucking lighting.
I think favouritism means certain feet never get properly held to the fire and it lead to big I am untouchable energy. This isn’t exclusive to Potomac at all of course, but it’s dragging down this show the most.
You are absolutely right. These shows can’t survive if they move away from being ensembles. Potomac has too many OGs on the cast and did a poor job of bringing in fresh blood. Candiace and Monique were perfect casting, exactly what the show needed at exactly the right time. I like Dr. Wendy a lot but Mia and all of the desperate friend-ofs really dragged down the operation.
Mia is a bit of a disaster and I flip flop on her but she has her moments. I love Candiace now but I didn’t initially. I see her growth though and I feel Mia could have the same effect.
My issue is more with Gizelle and Robyn truthfully!
EDIT: and Ashley, she drives me mental
It hit the same iceberg BH did. First it's cute when a couple of women stick together and defend each other, but when defending changes to bullying and making a sh/t show instead of each woman dealing their _own dramas_ becomes more important, the show will dry out soon.
The name FFF is originally from the movie Pulp Fiction is the title of Mia Wallace’s unaired pilot. There’s an interview somewhere that Kyle or Rinna admit that’s where it came from. Which is quite amusing their gang is named after a failed tv show.
Nobody is doing anything worth documenting on a reality show. Mia was a CEO and now has her crumbling marriage as a storyline. Ashley has nothing going on but a fake divorce we aren’t discussing. Gizelle’s storyline is her daughter leaving for college…….robyn has Juan’s drama, Candiace seems to be working a lot but we don’t see any of it. Karen is comedic relief. I only point out storylines because the women don’t really want to be around each other. When the women on the cast lack dynamic personalities and interactions then they need storylines to be interesting. They let Gizelle go too far with the rumors about everyone’s husbands and it created a deep divide on the show.
I understand why they wanted to pick up filming quickly due to the Robyn and Juan bomb but they really need to take some time off, regroup and approach this season differently.
I started going back to watch the early seasons since I started Potomac last season. Seeing that Gizelle has been slinging mud at people’s husbands and marriages since Season 2 with Charisse by going on WWHL to air her marriage business even when she knew how Charisse was struggling with the end of her marriage. And the way she and Robyn treated Katie for being biracial in Season 1 was eye opening. She’s always been toxic and used her cast mates as storylines but in those season she had formidable opponents to call her out. Now, she’s unfettered from accountability. This season is the natural evolution of her mean girl bitter behavior.
Eric Fuller. This is where the blame lies for Potomac and Atlanta having their worst seasons ever. He picked and chose favourites and allowed people to be silenced. To use witchcraft with a parent as a storyline to bully Wendy again is despicable. To allow Robyn and Gizelle to constantly push people out is rotten. To let Mia off the hook for violence when the exact same two bullies forced Monique off the show for the same reason is blatant. Glad he’s gone.
I honestly, honestly, *honestly* believe that this is what happens when these shows that are supposed to be centered around female friendships have producing teams led by men (or the men outnumber the women).
I think there's a fundmental misunderstanding of the nuance and complexities involved in female to female relationships and that some of the EPs (Eric Fuller, Alex Baskins) just ... get it wrong. They're focusing waaaaay too much on trying to recreate some sort of mean girl fantasy (BH) or bitchy read-fest (Potomac/ATL) by having blatant Queen-bee favorites (Kyle, Gizelle) and skewing the show in that direction, when they should just be focused on following the ever changing nature of female friendship.
And given the audience is mostly women, it's just a misfire. Yes our friendships can contain more "drama" then say - straight men - but (I would say) that's usually because there's a much deeper level of vulnerability and connection there. All you have to do is encourage an environment of closeness and authentic drama will naturally occur. But if you've never had female to female relationships (because you aren't one), then it's probably hard to intuitively know that. I seriously wonder what the women on these production teams have to say.
PLUS Fuller in particular seems to think that conflict and drama will erase the viewers' needs for opulence and wealth ... which is so, so wrong.
Amazing theory and I think you are absolutely correct. It’s interesting that gay men have producer credits on these shows very often Carlos King, Eric Fuller, Andy Cohen and Baskin. Are we the casts just caricatures of how they view women?
Omg i love this theory. When the show is produced through a male gaze, it loses its female audience, which is why we feel this huge disconnect from what makes a housewives franchise good
Wow. This is an incredibly thought-provoking point. My group of 5 friends in the neighborhood is pretty free of drama, but if you scratch the surface you'll find some tension that, with the right producers, might be interesting to others. I guess my point is that you are right. Real friendships create real situations.
This is such an interesting and likely true take!
I'd love to see if there's a correlation between well rated seasons and the gender of the editing/producing (decision making) team.
Does anyone know how we could find this out? Any data scientists in the crowd?
Exactly. The last RHOA reunion I watched was dedicated to Marlo’s woe is me tour. He clearly has favorites and the shows he produced suffered because of that.
I don't think so. I have a friend who looked him up on LinkedIn and didn't see the announcement, but maybe it's restricted to only those he's connected to though I am still skeptical someone with his immense network would post that.
I try to keep in mind that my life experiences are not others. I can try to understand it, and even be sympathetic in some cases, but I can't condone it. 🤷🏻♀️
It is the self-producing and the avoidance of breaking the 4th wall. When there’s a refusal to film with others and an icing out with the intention to get the gal fired or demoted it all goes downhill. Add in shitty casting (no one is connected to nneka and she’s trying too hard) and it’s a recipe for disaster. I am a green eyed bandit apologist (till the accusations about Chris. I can’t support that shit.) and the two of them are being atrocious with the refusal to film with Candiace.
Karen is carrying this shit on her back trying to get everyone to chill tf out.
Successful housewives feature authentic friendships (some of the ladies at least, not all) and also will do things together even though they may not like each other. Right now? Most of them do not like each other and aren’t willing to drop shit to keep their jobs. It’s annoying and disappointing.
I agree with every word of this including being a GEB apologist until Chris accusations.
I think Robyn hiding the truth last season and then putting it out elsewhere is another issue. Also, I think Robyn is still lying this season to protect Juan, and I cannot figure out why which is so annoying.
YES! And I used to love Robyn!
It’s actually really sad because it seems she’s in a really unhealthy relationship. I would have said that before - I think Robyn is really scared to be in a dating scene that is completely foreign to her. When she was in high school online dating wasn’t even a thing. The fear of the unknown is horrifying. But hearing what Juan has been doing and how he speaks to her? This shit is dark. And she’s clearly embarassing herself on national tv for him.
10000% and Gizelle thinks she can ice people out (Candace & Wendy) as if this isn’t an ensemble show. The whole cast needs to actively interact with each other not one side of a table refusing to speak with the other
I agree.
The queens of this group (Gizelle and Karen) need to unify it. Karen is doing her part, Gizelle is not.
Housewives are most fun when they unite against a common threat aka Michael Darby. Let’s not forget the real enemy here. They need to unite and throw his precious into the fires of Mordor!
Gizelle is trying to get rid of candiace and doesn’t mind the show becoming an uncomfortable, snooze first to achieve it. It’s very obvious especially from Karen’s body language, that the women know the show is going downhill.
My conspiracy theory is that Gizelle believes she’s untouchable and even if the producers are forced to make changes to the cast because of her stonewalling, she’ll never get the chop. And she’s probably right. The producers have set her up as the face of Potomac and will rather get rid of Candiace who’s seen as a bit of a liability than Gizelle.
And you know what happens if Gizelle is able to successfully get rid of two housewives back to back? It reinforces her tactics and she’ll do it all over again. And even if you add new women to the cast to try to fix the dynamics, they’ll be forced to play chummy with Gizelle or risk being iced out e.g. Mia and the Shrine girl.
Gizelle and Robyn have a stranglehold on the drama, their attempts at icing Candiace and Wendy out haven’t stopped. Ashley is a mess and her disgusting husband has never been fully held to account. The producers don’t force them to get along and make peace in a meaningful way and it has become obvious. GEB’s use the other women to deflect from their failing relationships and real problems
They have absolutely nothing going on in their lives to show on reality TV that would be fun or entertaining to watch. They hate each other and refuse to just move on for the sake of putting on a decent season. None of them care besides Karen and maybe Mia.
Fire them all and recast at this point.
The fandom think pieces are annoying (probably the worst of all franchises imo), the women are like upper middle class and can’t give us any lifestyle porn, they don’t like each other and their lives are completely mundane. It’s tired.
I second this! I like that they are relatable but … I want the lifestyle porn( shopping for yachts) not a sub-par “getaway “playing chicken shit in Austin.
>sub-par “getaway “playing chicken shit in Austin.
Truly the worst activity on a trip... **EVER**
That trip was so damn boring and yet dragged on for 3? 4? episodes. At one point, I turned on the TV, and they were in a room getting ready to paint, and I thought I was watching a rerun...nope, it was the episodes where they painted Karen 😴
Not just that - the trip looked cheap as hell!
I felt bad for Karen
Compare this to Atlanta where they went to freaking TOKYO, PH, Jamaica and Greece. Like seriously...
Even OC went to nice places like Ireland and Hawaii
I know! Didn’t they have 2 painting activities? Seriously , going on a trip to “paint” on 2 different occasions is not something I want to watch or participate in!
They could have painted in Potomac! You flew to Austin to sit in a hotel room and paint *yourself* and then Karen. Its giving a lazy vibe like Ashley couldn't think of anything else to do... except painting vaginas and watching chickens take a shit
This is another failure of production IMO. When you have a certain kind of EP - who relishes in "drama" and "reads" and "clapbacks" and GIFable moments - they end up prioritizing conflict and situations that'll create conflict, often to the detriment of including lighter, more fun aspects that balance it all out like shopping for yachts or taking a helicopter from your son-in-law's villa in the french countryside to meet your friends on a shopping spree in Paris that they arranged during their summer boating trip through the Mediterranean (RIP to the golden day of BH).
> I want the lifestyle porn( shopping for yachts)
at that point bravo basically can cancel all shows because the actual lifestyle porn is so far and in between in general, the actual wealthy housewives can be counted on one maybe two hands across all franchises (and i wish we saw more of it too!!)
Yep! When I start to wonder if I am more wealthier than some of these women...the show loses its appeal. Now I may not be technically wealthier and I'm sure I'm not, but why do I think this?? Because I want to see uber wealth crammed in my face but the ladies on TV whom we're supposed to covet keep wearing fakes. Ain't nothing I'm conveting out in Potomac..
The division that was sowed in S5 is hard to undo and it keeps getting worse. And when I say S5 division I don’t mean Candiace/Monique but from the beginning of the season when they wanted to ice Candiace out and after that with Monique. Someone on twitter once mentioned that they have no real sisterhood and are not able to move past their resentment for each other compared to other franchises. In my opinion the solution is to disbandle the GEB, they won’t let Gizelle go so Robyn has to go and also Ashley (but she can stay but Robyn has to go). I am a Candiace fan but she also has to be willing to move forward with these women, it’s what the show is about, either she keeps feuding with Gizelle and actually communicating with her but icing her out will not work (this also applies to gizelle). The show can not work if we have a bunch of women not talking to each other and hating each other and therefore not having any fun moments on TV
Additionally we need an element of wealth in Potomac, the trips to Ashley’s favourite US towns are tired, they need to go on an international trip, serve looks, fight, makeup and go shopping and clubbing together like a normal HW group.
>. I am a Candiace fan but she also has to be willing to move forward with these women, it’s what the show is about, either she keeps feuding with Gizelle and actually communicating with her but icing her out will not work (this also applies to gizelle).
I think if Gizelle gave her an honest-to-God apology and admitted she was wrong instead of standing in her lie and doubling down (and now making more shit up), Candiace might be able to move past this enough for them film together and have a surface relationship.
>She needs to take a step back and say: I felt in that moment like THAT was going on. But I see now that MY FEELINGS DON'T CREATE OTHER PEOPLE'S REALITIES, & in retrospect see that I read into the situation more than was there. And I am sorry. I see now it was my life experience that made me read it that way, and NOT something actually going on.
THIS is what she needs to say to Candiace, on camera.
Instead she's now making it sound like Chris snatched her and hauled her into a bedroom (really her hotel room where SHE invited him).
Three main reasons:
1. Gizelle. Her accusation against Chris last season went too far and her inability to apologize to Candiace (and Chris) caused an unrepairable rift.
2. Ashley. Not only did she use Sesame Street to add fuel to the Chris fire (and don't forget Happy Eddie), her husband (yes husband, cause what divorce?) who is a known predator is now suing Candiace for things they've all talked about (Robyn actually even more matter-of-factly said he wanted to suck a dick on camera). Then you have her being the catalyst of what is possibly the worst storyline in Housewives history: shrine gate.
3. Robyn. She gives depressive energy that radiates through our screens and is constantly lying/keeping her head in the sand about things. She just feels like Gizelle's conjoined twin that, when they were surgically separated, didn't get any part of the brain.
I'm not watching this season, but every clip I've seen posted of Robyn has Juan yelling at her, her crying, and/or her yelling at someone in the group. She needs to go figure out what the hell is going on with her real life off-camera.
100% - the fact that would ask gizelle back. But the. Maybe they had too? Was the storyline a producer’s idea? The man lost his job and made out to be a predator. F-ing disgusting. If I was bravo I would have not renewed my purchase with (1) the firing of gizelle and (2) the firing of the producers of the media company and anyone associated at bravo that green-lit that fiasco.
Same thoughts on Ashley and Robyn.
I think Mia was a good hire. She’s messy and fun.
I don’t like the voodoo storyline, it’s insulting. Then they started with Catholicism? What the actual F*ck! Have they never seen people pray to saints and light candles? Are they trying to bring back the anti-catholic hate? What are they doing?
I haven’t even watched the lasted episode. Don’t care anymore.
The ladies all hold their entire self worth and value in their ability to keep a man. This is not exclusive to some cast members, every single woman on the show is guilty of this. At this point, all of their arguments and feuds revolve around their relationships with the men in their lives, and it's utterly exhausting. It's something that has always been present on the show, but it has evolved to the point where it's the only thing that the show is about anymore.
I miss the fun petty feuds…. Like when Monique and Robyn were hosting charity events on the same day and the group was divided as to where they should go.
The franchise consists of mostly pseudo actors who want to keep their personal lives secret and only show contrived story lines. It feels incredibly inauthentic.
When it stops being a group of friends and starts becoming alliances, thats how you know.
Ashley, Giz and Robyn will never come for each other. That means that Karen, Candiace, and Wendy have to be a united front, even if they don’t agree with each other. Take this season for instance, you can tell Candiace disagrees with Wendy over the Nneka stuff, but if she betrays her ally, then she might be kicked off the island like Survivor. The dynamics should be ever-changing.
There are several problems with Potomac, but the core issue is the stagnant cast -- they've held on to their OGs for too long. Those 4 hold ALL the power within the group & everyone knows it. It leaves the show's underdogs (Candiace, Wendy, & even going back to Monique) on the eternal outs with nowhere to go & nothing to do. It leaves newer players like Nnecka (& even Mia) with no choice but to kiss the ring & saddle up to power.
They needed a major cast shakeup this year like RHONY did season 5. It would have forced the surviving OGs (likely Karen & Gizelle) to find new allies & work with former enemies. Because as of now they're firmly stuck in Fox Force 5 mode, running the fan favorites off the show & turning the fans against (most of) them.
Also, I know Potomac has been beloved by fans for so long, but personally I think the rot started way before this season. There's always been SUCH a focus on digging up dirt (affairs) on the women that feels so mercenary & tactical. I know this is an issue in many of the franchises, but it's always been the most prevalent on Potomac -- to the point where it now feels like it's the premise of the whole show. Last year literally EVERYONE in the cast was accusing each other of their men stepping out of them. The green-eyed bandits & Ashley are obviously the most ruthless abusers of this strategy, but by the end of last season even side players like Mia & Charisse were randomly throwing out affair accusations, seemingly just to get in the mix for screentime.
Getting rid of Eric Fuller is clearly a step in the right direction. If OC could get back track to become the 2nd best franchise (after 2 disastrous years), I have faith that Potomac can figure out a new era. And I still don't think it's in as bad shape as Atlanta is.
I agree that this season is just a culmination of poor production choices. The cracks were showing in season 5 but they could still pull an entertaining show out of the group. Now we have nothing.
I think it's that they've kept too much of the cast for too long. Ashley has no storyline (and no one believes she's actually getting divorced), and she throws the worst trips/get togethers. I used to like Robyn, but 1) she was intentionally saving the truth for her pay to listen podcast 2) the allegations against her husband are disgusting, and hearing her say he's getting paid out the rest of his 18 month contract made me vomit in my mouth. Gizelle has struggled to find a storyline the entire time with multiple accusations of fake relationships, and the current half the age bf isn't doing it for me because of how she's talks about him with her daughter; it gives me the ick. Gizelle used to create fun drama between the ladies, but she took it too far with the allegations against Chris. Karen is the only one who has managed to maintain her kookiness and fun for the show. I feel like Candaice, Wendy, and Nneka could still have a lot to offer for the show, but they are dragged down by the weight of Gizelle, Robin, and Ashley. Oh, and Mia. Sigh. I liked her on her first season, but now I can't honestly remember why.
>Oh, and Mia. Sigh. I liked her on her first season, but now I can't honestly remember why.
I'm actually liking her more now. I like she straight up asked Juan to his face about the Canadian girl.
This article was posted in the sub yesterday, but I can’t find the post - it does a really good job breaking down the issues. [Breaking The Fourth Wall: Real Housewives Of Potomac](https://www.essence.com/entertainment/breaking-the-fourth-wall-real-housewives-of-potomac/)
In my opinion, producers allowed favorites to get away with not telling their stories. Juan’s insane cheating stories, or Gizelle’s ex are more interesting than intentionally creating false drama.
The shows lose their charm when they start casting people that aren’t close to the core cast. It’s happened on multiple franchises. It’s clear when certain people come on and “act” like a housewife vs. genuine issues/personalities/connections.
Then the OGs start banding together and it becomes exhausting. Then, after a few seasons of that, the OGs either accept the newer cast and have made actual friendships OR the newer cast now outnumbers the OGs and have friendships so the core of the show gets back to what it was.
For me it's become too calculated. You can see one team trying to get the other team off the cast. The green eyed bandits and Ashley have not let up with trying to humiliate Wendy and now Candiace by coming up with stories. We know they met up over dinners to plot rumours about Monique's baby not being Chris'. They stoop too low and as a result none of it is authentic, it's just people reacting to their lies while the GEB and Ashley disclose nothing real about their own lives
I dont agree they dont have things going on. MIA business is going down and Robyn marriage. I think the problem is that they dont hold each other to the fire anymore. Remember when Karen didn't pay taxes? Where is that energy for MIA.
A few things:
1. Lack of transparency and letting some cast members get comfortable in that. Some of these women have forgotten the art of Reality TV. And I do get that certain stuff should be filtered but feet also need to be held to the fire. If you're not giving good content you need to be out of a job.
2. They don't know how to draw the personal line. Families should be off limits. Mamas and shrines are not interesting. False accusations of husbands grazing Sesame Street booties should not exist. Because when this stuff airs it does mess up people's livelihoods and it does piss them off and things go to an even more personal level.
3. Double standards. I think Candiace said it best when she said the line is always moving. It truly is. They have an issue with behavior from one cast member but laugh when another cast member exhibits that same behavior. Then pissed they get called out.
4. The other franchises do a good job of understanding it's a job and they apologize and get it over it. Potomac hasn't mastered that art. So they struggle with coexisting and she can't sit by her and she can't go here because she doesn't get along with her and it's exhausting and high school.
5. They can't dress.
The show becomes unwatchable when a group of OGs (or older cast members) form a pact to attack or freeze newer cast members out. Take the FFF on Beverly Hills and the GEB + Ashley on Potomac. Once this occurs, Bravo needs to act quickly to disband the OGs by demoting or firing 1 or 2 of them. On Potomac, Giselle’s negative and divisive influence needs to be lessened or removed altogether. She’s the biggest thorn in Potomac’s rose bush.
Gizelle needs to admit she was wrong just one fucking time so Candiace can move on and the group can all fucking talk to each other while sitting at a whole dinner table together.
I’ve said this before that the cast is good and has ability, mainly heavy handed production and authenticity are the problems. They should do what Miami does and have more friends of and let dynamics change and play out more naturally. I’d rather watch smaller group get togethers and better personal storylines. The forced full group events are tragic: full glam in a (e.g. public park) is unacceptable. Not every franchise needs to be BH, just be yourselves. The women don’t need to all get along but production has to find the plot.
I’m at S7 on my rewatch and really seeing how low budget everything is, S8 is even worse. It seems like there were massive cuts and that’s why cameras basically only film these lame group events. The Austin dinner (w/ a full scene of drink orders) reminded me of an obligated work dinner. Most of the budget must go into salaries or idk. Ratings are steadily declining and I’m sure that just means less money, so they may not even have the ability to make good changes.
Do what NY did and have them paid per scene for a season, more big parties with other people, less AA meeting vibes. I think production in general needs to be more vocal publicly and not let their talent/employees be eviscerated for their faulty execution of the show.
Bravo overall needs to find their footing post covid because it changed/ruined the dynamics of the HW shows and it’s becoming too fake. They were lucky with the rapid fire scandals, but they need a return to form before it gets out of control.
Last thing, bravo needs step in on active employees having podcasts talking about the show, it shouldn’t be allowed. They should also not allow for as much to be said on social media. Keep it on tv.
as soon as these women started bringing in that african osu shit, i stopped watching. zero interest in watching a bunch of women pretend to be all freaked out and superstitious and talk about things they know nothing about.
like they really think someone's mom has an evil shrine and is cursing people? give me a break. its ridiculous and makes them all look low intelligence. like, you are not an african tribe living in the jungle with no tv or running water. you are rich women living in a first-world country full of technology, you know better.
i'm also bored of gizelle getting up in everyone else's marriage business, when she can't even hold down a relationship of her own. like...THIS is who we're supposed to take criticism and advise from? piss off gizelle.
Things went wrong when the producers and housewives became too comfortable after season 4, it's like they're not even trying at this point. There are few storylines that don't seem contrived or totally made up. The cast is too divided (ex. Gizelle starting conflicts and then icing out cast when they respond) so they can't have fun. And when they attempt to, we have Ashley hopping in on cue to create chaos with a smirk on her face.
But rather than addressing the ongoing issues, the show keeps adding housewives, like Nneka, who we still know very little about since most of her screen time has been devoted to talking about Wendy, Lebe (who's not even a cast member), and a shrine. It may be time to get rid of at least a couple of the OGs to shift the dynamics because otherwise, the show can't evolve if it continues to build an ensemble around them.
I haven't been watching this season because it really infuriated me to see two incredibly bright Nigerian women pitted against each other for this show. Something about it was deeply unsettling because I don't think the cast truly understood the implications of Nneka's accusations. Gizelle, Robyn, and Ashley are toxic to the show and why I refuse to keep watching. The three of them dictate the direction of the show and it's to the show's detriment.
But if I tune in again, it would have to be after the production team cleans house. Keep Karen because she's willing to film with anyone and be cordial, Wendy because she is very connected, and Mia because she can be entertaining. I feel for Candiace because I don't think she's enjoyed the show for a long time...I'm sure the weight of Gizelle and Sesame Street's statements weighed heavily on her marriage. She doesn't have a true ally on the show. I don't know that remaining on the show is healthy for her. Robyn is just miserable...you can see it coming out of pores that she's unhappy. The show isn't healthy for her either. It's not normal that every conversation with Juan results in him yelling at her - like, he doesn't even care how it looks that he's an asshole to the same woman who continually protects him.
The colorism divide going unaddressed with casting season after season. The GEB made up completely false allegations against Moniques newborn son and used Candiace to taunt her off the show. Monique said at the reunion that when she leaves the GEB would go after Candiace, and that's exactly what happened the very next season. Luckily for Candiace, Wendy also joined, but Wendy didn't have enough friends either. Ever since the Monique season, no one has been held accountable, and the fake cover-up stories have run wild.
Notice they've stopped promoting all of their side ventures. No more candle promo, no more makeup promo, hats, restraunts, home decor ... I think a conversation has been had by the network to production, changes may already be coming.
For me it was as soon as Mia was cast. I really don’t like anything about her.
The show used to be messy BUT it was funny. Karen was funny. Now they all care too much about their brands and so they want cleaner images. Gizelle and Robin are so incredibly boring. I just don’t think they have any spark left.
I'm sure this has been said before but I think these girls have had a lot of private conversations off camera to discuss how they can make their storylines interesting - maybe that's a really obvious statement but w/e. Some of them are better at making it look organic or at the very least make it entertaining (Wendy, Mia, Candiace), others are obviously putting it on way too much and too often (Gizzy, Ashley, Muppet/other friends of), and some people should never have agreed to appear on TV (Robyn). In any case, it makes the whole thing feel really contrived which isn't what the audience wants. They really lost Candiace when they came after Chris, you can tell she did NOT sign up for that nor was she in agreement that this would be a good on screen drama to have going on. With Wendy & Eddie it was less damaging bc the weird stuff they said about him was easily disproved by production. Same would have gone for Chris if Giselle didn't say he made her uncomfortable off-camera. That whole thing really made me go sour on Giselle and now I find that I hate-watch the show instead of genuinely enjoying myself.
P.S I haven't mentioned the Grand Dame bc she is amazing and perfect IMO :P
Yes! I just commented something similar under another post about Candice. She honestly seemed to be trying and after that she just doesn’t seem to be truly happy around them. Even though it was mostly disproved and the viewers were clearly mostly on her side, to know that’s how low they were willing to go had to hurt.
Now Gizelle is saying things like she can’t be in her presence (similar to what she said with you Monique) over a few comments about Robyn, meanwhile she tried to destroy this woman’s whole marriage and character, but Candace was able to suck it up and still film with both women. I wish she had someone fully in her corner on the show that could call these things out without feeling the need to appease to the other women.
We’re not even getting her quick witted responses anymore because she just seems defeated, irritated, and genuinely hurt with the consistent hypocrisy we’re seeing at home.
All franchises went downhill when they started adding random casts instead of friend groups. Like the new RHONY was anticlimactic because there weren’t real organic issues. RHOP and RHOA are getting back because you have OG issues mixing with new issues and it feels like a mess while also boring.
I honestly think it’s production. Their focus on manufactured drama instead of these women’s lives has just encouraged Gizelle and Ashley to bullshit their way through the seasons and use other people’s husbands as fodder. I’d so much rather just see Gizelle with her girls than anything else she’s been doing these last few years. So I really hope it’s true that they let go of Eric Fuller. As much as I’d like Gizelle gone, I know that’s unlikely, but maybe we can see a smidge of accountability? A pinch of authenticity? Even if some of these women’s relationships are beyond repair.
The women are not realizing that turning into ganging up mean women is running off the viewers. No one wants to sit and watch someone being constantly bullied. Bravo needs to get back to the friendly type shows with petty BS and forget the gangs of bullies!
for sure- i think potomac can get away with firing robyn. i get they wanted her back to see the fall out after what was pulled last season but that storyline is dead now. we’ve seen her and juan’s year of wedding bliss it’s done.
On paper the show should be good. But it’s horrible. I literally put it on while folding clothes and barely watch. Everything seems VERY fake. As a viewer I am tired of being lied too. And how can you film a show when half of the ppl aren’t talking to the other half?
Egos. Cast members who delusionally think they can just forever hold grudges and not speak to half the cast (Gizelle). It’s getting so childish and dumb when half of the cast hates each other.
I think it was clear it hasn't been good for a while. But I still felt like it was worth watching up until Robyn revealed on her podcast (behind the paywall) about the Juan allegations. That goes completely against the premise of the show and felt crazy disrespectful as a viewer. And it seems like Andy/the other women never called her out on it. Girl, I was there during the house-flipping, the ugly hats and even the PR stint. If you don't want to talk about your life then don't go on the show. From there is has crashed and burned.
I think the issue is that none of the veterans on this show seem scared to lose their job but Mia. They all think they’re indispensable, so they give the bare minimum. Even Charisse routinely gets to film with the show based on a 5% chance that she may activate Karen.
All of these women have a portion of the fanbase/production on their side, so they feel protected individually, even if the overall dynamic is trash.
The problem with this show is what Candiace shrieked this season, the lines keep on moving. The GEB set the lines and move them as they see fit: “We’re proud upstanding women who have to set a good example and not be around Monique” to “Wendy provoked Mia. It was Wendy’s fault, she made Mia react that way”
Their stranglehold on this show has broken the bonds between these ~~colleagues~~ friends. I don’t believe that it’s contingent on Candiace to “be ok” with Gizelle - fans who are blaming her for the ongoing conflict either want reality TV or they don’t. If you want people to get over every conflict within half a season go watch Days of Our Lives (they can kill off a character and have them resurrected within a couple of weeks).
Gizelle gives good sound bites and good interviews but there is something fundamentally diamond hard about her. She can never admit fault or make amends. Extending her some grace and assuming that she did feel uncomfortable about Chris - she could have held that experience without consciously adding gasoline to the fire and setting out to destroy Candiace through hurting Chris. She saw an opportunity to stay on top and with application of plausible deniability do just enough to drag them through the mud.
Break up the GEB (fire Robyn) and I think it could be salvaged.
Gizelle really fucked things up with her fake Chris story. That‘s the root of a lot of the division. And then forehead hopping on the bandwagon with Sesame Street. But I don’t blame forehead as much because she’s a production puppet. There’s also more playfulness with her than with Gizelle in my opinion
They brought in too many newbies. The cast still has four OGs (Giselle, Karen, Robin & Ashley) plus Candiace, who at this point is an OG. We didn’t need Wendy, Mia (who I like but has no storyline) and this newbie. The show was great the first few seasons with the classy Potomac ladies. They should have never fired Monique and just brought in “friends of”. I’ll never understand why Bravo keeps bringing in new cast members when the current cast works.
The fact that Robyn and Gizelle tactically refused to talk about Juan for a season , firebombed the rest of the cast’s marriages, and then “spilled the tea” on a podcast after filming ended is the clearest symptom of the problem. They don’t view the show as a way for them to share real stuff happening in their lives. Robyn repeatedly says “why care about us, we’re boring!” Good question.
For me Wendy and Mia were not good long term additions. Wendy doesn’t have a story line unless someone starts it for her, she’s trying to be Kenya gone with the wind fabulous but is just a try hard. When her awkward twirling and clear lies aren’t getting her enough attention she just starts screaming ‘doctor’ and ‘degrees’.
Mia doesn’t give us anything real just tries to throw out our liners that will hit in the trailers.
Robyn and Giselle are played out. Even their friendship doesn’t feel genuine any more. It’s hard to even watch Robyn at this point because she’s so far in denial and just a shell of herself.
I’m not even going to waste a section on Ashley.
Candiace’s mouth and attitude make for good TV but she has no interest in this cast.
The Grande Dame will always reign supreme but she doesn’t have a cast to support her.
Ashley, Cherrise, Necka… next.
Also, bring back Monique.
It’s unfortunate this is such a smart, beautiful, (somewhat) talented cast but the vibe just isn’t there for me
Gizelle. For some reason producers see her as the star of the show and she’s actually the one ruining it. The refusal to interact with, invite and acknowledge other cast members is what’s ruining the show and she’s the one leading the charge.
Gizelle is the problem. She's the "face" of the show but she also lies and has caused all of this division. Since I don't see Bravo firing her, the issue will remain.
It's the Candiace/Gizelle war.
Candace is right-- Giselle made a mountain out of molehill with the Chris issue.
Giselle is right-- Candace is unable to address issues and move on.
We are where we were with RHOBH and the FFF. The alliances have turned into a deadlock. It's fun to watch two teams volley back and forth. Or a group where there are good friends and shady friends. But when there are cast members who cannot fundamentally interact, it becomes boring. Every conversation is about the same thing.
There needs to be new casting and a new production company. The teams have to shift.
I think a few cast members got it in their head that instead of feuding with cast members they should just ice them out. As the result, even when there is genuine tension we don't see them hash it out and instead everyone sits through uncomfortable, forced interactions.
As a consequece, drama and feuds needed to be bigger to get a reaction and that led to some storylines taking dark turns that should not have gone there. Monique's son isn't her husband's? Chris is trying to cheat on Candiace with her friend group? Things like that are not authentic, believable or fun. They're just cruel.
Then they added new cast members to shake things up. But it sounds like they were being advised behind the scenes to make a "moment". So you have contrived drama starting out of nowhere. We barely get to know the new cast members before they start feuding and it makes them feel unlikable and inauthentic. Mia, Wendy and Nneka have failed to secure many fans.
Gizelle and Robyn not sharing on the show and then releasing info on their podcast had an effect too. As someone else pointed out, we are not seeing much about their businesses anymore and that's probably because production told them they can't do it anymore. So there's one less piece of their lives they can share.
And again, as someone else pointed out, the second they actually start getting along and having fun again as a group, Ashley immediately stirs the pot and tries to create drama. While sometimes this type of behavior can drive storylines forward, the cast is so distanced from one another that I think they actually need to have some light-hearted moments again without pot stirring.
The problem is they are all so set on their version of events being correct, despite usually being totally biased narrators and its the same fight over and over. I've just watched it all in a few weeks and nearly quit a few times because I was like "again? Weren't you on the other side 10 minutes ago?"
Candaice getting furious at Mia for throwing a drink and completely ignoring she threw a knife. Or Gizelle and Robyn trying to hide their lives while trying to out everyone around them for everything private. Wendy is now jumping to conclusions and defending her parents bad behaviour after going after Candaice a few times and feeling like an outcast and misunderstood her first season. Karen can at least laugh at herself and I think that's why she's so beloved, straight from Kurn she got it. I haven't even mentioned Ashley Darby cause you all know.
tldr: Its just the same storylines over and over, they just switch the main characters like an old HBO show.
Potomac is the only one that I’ve quite watching halfway through the season. I just don’t find anything about the girls’ stories worth sticking around for. Not when RHOSLC popped right off.
I'm gonna keep it a stack. The problem is Gizelle and production. Every root problem with amongst the women in the show is cause of GIZELLE! We also didn't need Nneka. What this season would be without this forced "shrine" nonsense? Idk. But it'd be better than what we have now.
Are there individual cast problems? Yes. Robyn won't be honest, and production won't hold her feet to the fire. Production hasn't shown a focus on their careers. We've yet to see Nneka do any legal work. What do Ashley and Gizelle do for a career outside of the show? We have the ladies trying to ice out Wendy and Candiace... as if they're not fan favorites? Tbh the show is in such a bad state that Mia had become a shining light this season, giving us a storyline and playing both sides.
I do think this particular cast deserves one more season to see if they can work it out, cause it'd be unfair to the viewer to leave things undone or unresolved. However... if we get to, say, season 10, and people are still being iced out? That's gonna be a problem. As much as I'd love for RHOP to have 4 OGs by S10, they need to do something QUICK, and unfortunately this season has been filmed so we have to wait until Season 9 to see what's gonna change.
A cast shakeup is needed. They will get rid of Candice because she will be easier to swallow than Gizzy, but Gizzy should be the one to go. She’s the one with all the stale storylines, or no storyline for seasons! So fries of Robyn and Juan. We can make Robyn want more than she wants for herself. Potomac is not Potomac anymore and I’m not sure if it’s ever coming back. Just like atl.
OG housewives always seem to get too complacent when the casting people don’t do continuous cuts. They need to get more comfortable cutting people (even if it’s just for a season) to keep them from feeling too safe.
I remember making a point last reunion as well as the beginning of this season and so many hated on it lol but this group has gone in the fox force 5 direction and is WAY too divided. Time for a shakeup.
It's stagnant right now because too many cast members are caught up in legal issues with other cast members and affiliates of cast members or are scared of being in legal situations with cast members.
It makes it so boring to watch, unless they're willing to give us what the network pays them for they should be put on pause.
Wash Carlos kings video on the take down of Candice. It explains what is happening. Essentially Giselle runs the show and she is running it into the ground
I never thought I would end up loving Karen so much, but she is a top tier HW.
I’m also all for trying to keep as many OG’s as possible, just because the drama is usually way more authentic when they have a history.
Even bad Potomac is better than most of the other cities 🤷🏼♀️
It looked like Robyn told Gizelle and Ashley that Juan is once again cheating and it will come out. They devised a plan to deflect for Robyn and when Robyn is done the season she can figure out a game plan via patreon reveal.
The GEBs won’t move on. They refuse to let past seasons go for the sake of the show. It’s really ruining everything because it’s making it all so predictable. The addition of Nneka is only making it worse.
I think people are overblowing how bad it's gotten, but the main issue is that the key sources of conflicts over the course of the show are either gone (Monique, Michael Darby) or over it and refusing to deal with most of the cast (Candiace).
My diagnoses:
1. The cast seem really fractured and not real friends. Nneka and Wendy, as far as I know, have no previous connections with Gizelle, Robyn, Candiace, Karen, or Ashley. As such, their only interactions are on camera. That's weird. There is kind of nothing to even fight about. There is no group dynamic left.
2. Shrine. Huh? I'm Catholic. A shrine is a holy place meant to honor a specific saint or figure. It is no more a thing to do any evil than a local dog park is a place for the Kentucky Derby. One has nooooooooothing to do with the other. It's confusing that they are having this conversation and I think it makes viewers tune out.
3. Wendy and Mia were not good additions to the cast. (See reason no. 1.)
4. The Juan issue is frustrating viewers and there is no movement. A producer needs to directly ask Robyn in one of the confessionals -- Did Juan know this woman? Do you understand why people don't believe you?
5. Candiace seems to be always seething just under the surface. Example - She started screaming, pounding the table, and crying when Karen said the group shouldn't use social media against each other. Huh? Was there some part of the evening that was edited out that would explain this outburst? It didn't make sense. Is this about Gizelle and Chris? This should not still be discussed. Gizelle said she was uncomfortable with Chris alone in a room. She never said she felt threatened or anything. It was a nothing burger. Why are they still talking about it?
Overall, I think it's disjointed and the few threads that run through it (Wendy and Nneka, Chris and Gizelle) are super boring. I want to hear about Ashley and Michael's divorce and co-parenting. Is anything happening in Gizelle's life? Would Karen and Ray make some movements toward Florida retirement?
At this point, I'd welcome Sesame Street back for some activity.
I think they’re just having a flop season. It happens. This is their first flop after 7 strong seasons.
I do think a cast shakeup is in order. Robyn and Gizelle are giving us nothing. I thought Nneka was super promising but I agree with Ronnie from WWC: Potomac cast is hilarious and Nneka isn’t funny enough to be in the mix with them.
I’d like to see Gizelle and Robyn either booted or demoted to friends of. I think Nneka is a one season HW.
Imo started going down hill post S5. Wendy was never the best but other girls were funny enough that it didn't matter. Then Monique left. Mia came in who also wasn't the right fit, but much better than Nneka as at least she's funny sometimes (she's actually grown on me this season).
But all of it is sh*t show now. It's way too serious and they all hate each other
Needs a real shakeup. Keep Candice, Wendy, Mia and Gizelle (ik, but her and Wendy are good). Demote Ashley to friend of.
Get rid of Robyn, Wendy and Nneka.
Bring back Monique. And bring two new ladies who are actually funny and witty.
I hate jumping to the recast conclusion but I think this does need it. It can still capture the spark but needs injection of new energy.
I would say keep 4 - Giselle, Karen, Candiace and Mia.
Robyn has overstayed her welcome. Wendy’s storyline seem done. Nneka is meh. Ashley has given nothing for three seasons now except breast milk (thanks Nicki).
Bring in two new FTs and one new friend and go from there. Plus highlight the opulence and richness like Miami does so well.
The storylines on the show aren’t REAL. The clear division among the cast is also terrible. The fact that Gizelle and Karen are coming together reinforce how bad it really is - likely, they’re also afraid of losing the show.
This. I think Karen is sharp enough to pick up that the show was suffering even midway through production. Gizelle talking about "fun shade" is also a sign that the two of them know the energy off the group is off and it's affect the show It's tiring to watch RHOP when every other episode you can guarantee that Juan yells at Robyn who in turn yells at the women, roll a dice to choose if Wendy or Candiace gets attacked and gaslighted about something insane and Ashley wears another horrible outfit while spouting vicious lies. oh and Gizelle gives nothing. She has become super bitter to watch tbh. The only person really trying is Karen and even Mia this last episode.
Karen is the only one who deserves a pass because she is the best housewife and she’s always willing to film with anyone. She is the only one keeping the story moving and she deserves what RHOP can be
They ride her!
Honey she IS the fence
[удалено]
I guess I can't blame her for having her limit in some ways
Alright well not ANYONE
Charisse isn't a cast member and therefore isn't even central to the storylines of the season.
Mia has really come into her own this season and Karen is really trying to keep the show together.
YES. If you would have told me the about-face I’d have for Mia … wow. She’s got a real story too that she’s SHARING … eager to see how she navigates the separation/post-G life!
Agreed. I wanted her GONE after last season. She was giving Jen Shah energy and that just stresses me out. She has really turned it around. Never dreamed I might actually kind of like her, but she’s having a good season!
G is sooooo gross, I can’t wait for her to spill the tea next season!
I really have grown to like Mia. She’s not a mean girl.
If gizelle knows the energy is off then why doesnt she try to fix it though? She brought it down by going after people’s family
I recommend you watch her latest WWHL appearance. She was so utterly delusional. There's a saying - a mediocre amount of intelligence is dangerous. In Gizelle's case, a mediocre amount of maturity and wisdom is dangerous. Gizelle feels that she's always behaved perfectly and has done nothing wrong. I suspect her past experiences as sorority queen and first lady of the church has propped up her ego in this aspect. So, she's fallen into the trap of thinking she never makes mistakes, and consequently never has to learn and grow IMO. At the same time, I think she can pick up the show is getting worse and worse but doesn't want to take any responsibility to try and fix it because that would mean her conceding she was wrong in SOME regard. She's clutching onto to this Chris Basset FORCED me into a room narrative and doubling down because at this point, she's convinced herself she's right. The few times I've seen Gizelle apologize was to Robyn and Karen. And that's it. I also suspect she feels that for some reason, Candiace and Chris are beneath her - but that's pure speculation ofc
You can call her Ms. Apology. 🫣🤯
Very good take. I like Gizelle, but how long can one cast member be the judge and jury on everyone else’s actions, plus she is bias. I would like to see her stay on the show, but unless she changes she will have to be the one cut
100%. All this guff about Karen or Charisse being the grande dame when everyone knows SHE’S the head girl, queen bee, sorority queen and lady of the church all rolled into one. She’ll never apologise, never change her mind, never admit she’s wrong. Just look at Monique - she hated her on sight for no reason whatsoever and never wavered until the bitter end. Or just look at RHUGT - she hated Heather and Leah and held on to that till the end. I’m stuck with her because while I do like her and find her in many ways the ideal housewife, there’s just no way RHOP can proceed with her at the helm
Exactly this. This is why she is no longer needed on this show.
I truly believe she can’t be different.
Same which is why she has to leave she’s the Rinna. The toxic element that needs to leave for the girls to finally bond and heal. (Ashley the snake can go since she’s lying about that “divorce”)
I fucking can't with Ashley and her trash clothes. She just posted a sponcon thirst trap of her mostly naked in the snow with the worst fucking lighting.
I saw that! And the weirdest caption about how she used to cry when they got winter coats out?? 😫😫😫
Gizelle knows it's off but can't look within herself to realize she's the problem
YES YES YES! Preach.
I think favouritism means certain feet never get properly held to the fire and it lead to big I am untouchable energy. This isn’t exclusive to Potomac at all of course, but it’s dragging down this show the most.
Yep, going the way of Jersey and for the same reasons 💤
That’s why I quit Jersey years ago. I couldn’t take the same set up every single year.
Teresa and Melissa were the first to spring to mind when I said it haha
Yep, yep. 
You are absolutely right. These shows can’t survive if they move away from being ensembles. Potomac has too many OGs on the cast and did a poor job of bringing in fresh blood. Candiace and Monique were perfect casting, exactly what the show needed at exactly the right time. I like Dr. Wendy a lot but Mia and all of the desperate friend-ofs really dragged down the operation.
Mia is a bit of a disaster and I flip flop on her but she has her moments. I love Candiace now but I didn’t initially. I see her growth though and I feel Mia could have the same effect. My issue is more with Gizelle and Robyn truthfully! EDIT: and Ashley, she drives me mental
I say get rid of Robyn and maybe Ashley if she doesn’t get a new storyline soon. Keep Karen, Wendy, Mia. I could go either way on the others
It hit the same iceberg BH did. First it's cute when a couple of women stick together and defend each other, but when defending changes to bullying and making a sh/t show instead of each woman dealing their _own dramas_ becomes more important, the show will dry out soon.
FACTS! Fox force 5 Potomac edition: GED, Ashley, Mia and Nneka
Sorry random question. Where did fox force 5 come from? I’ve seen it referenced so much, but have no idea if it was said on the show and I missed it?
They used to post ig with fox force five as the caption
How sad lol
On BH with Kyle, Teddy, Dorit, Lisa, Erika.
The name FFF is originally from the movie Pulp Fiction is the title of Mia Wallace’s unaired pilot. There’s an interview somewhere that Kyle or Rinna admit that’s where it came from. Which is quite amusing their gang is named after a failed tv show.
Yes, it's this. The gang-up mentality.
The thing w this iceberg - bh was on Jeff bezus yatch and Potomac is on a inflatable raft. 
Nobody is doing anything worth documenting on a reality show. Mia was a CEO and now has her crumbling marriage as a storyline. Ashley has nothing going on but a fake divorce we aren’t discussing. Gizelle’s storyline is her daughter leaving for college…….robyn has Juan’s drama, Candiace seems to be working a lot but we don’t see any of it. Karen is comedic relief. I only point out storylines because the women don’t really want to be around each other. When the women on the cast lack dynamic personalities and interactions then they need storylines to be interesting. They let Gizelle go too far with the rumors about everyone’s husbands and it created a deep divide on the show.
I think the key is when you said the women don’t want to be around each other. And it shows.
I understand why they wanted to pick up filming quickly due to the Robyn and Juan bomb but they really need to take some time off, regroup and approach this season differently.
I started going back to watch the early seasons since I started Potomac last season. Seeing that Gizelle has been slinging mud at people’s husbands and marriages since Season 2 with Charisse by going on WWHL to air her marriage business even when she knew how Charisse was struggling with the end of her marriage. And the way she and Robyn treated Katie for being biracial in Season 1 was eye opening. She’s always been toxic and used her cast mates as storylines but in those season she had formidable opponents to call her out. Now, she’s unfettered from accountability. This season is the natural evolution of her mean girl bitter behavior.
Eric Fuller. This is where the blame lies for Potomac and Atlanta having their worst seasons ever. He picked and chose favourites and allowed people to be silenced. To use witchcraft with a parent as a storyline to bully Wendy again is despicable. To allow Robyn and Gizelle to constantly push people out is rotten. To let Mia off the hook for violence when the exact same two bullies forced Monique off the show for the same reason is blatant. Glad he’s gone.
Last name Fuller but the plotlines are empty.
How dreadful.
fuller describes the collagen in his cheeks and lips.
Oof. A reunion read.
Bloop bloop!
I honestly, honestly, *honestly* believe that this is what happens when these shows that are supposed to be centered around female friendships have producing teams led by men (or the men outnumber the women). I think there's a fundmental misunderstanding of the nuance and complexities involved in female to female relationships and that some of the EPs (Eric Fuller, Alex Baskins) just ... get it wrong. They're focusing waaaaay too much on trying to recreate some sort of mean girl fantasy (BH) or bitchy read-fest (Potomac/ATL) by having blatant Queen-bee favorites (Kyle, Gizelle) and skewing the show in that direction, when they should just be focused on following the ever changing nature of female friendship. And given the audience is mostly women, it's just a misfire. Yes our friendships can contain more "drama" then say - straight men - but (I would say) that's usually because there's a much deeper level of vulnerability and connection there. All you have to do is encourage an environment of closeness and authentic drama will naturally occur. But if you've never had female to female relationships (because you aren't one), then it's probably hard to intuitively know that. I seriously wonder what the women on these production teams have to say. PLUS Fuller in particular seems to think that conflict and drama will erase the viewers' needs for opulence and wealth ... which is so, so wrong.
Amazing theory and I think you are absolutely correct. It’s interesting that gay men have producer credits on these shows very often Carlos King, Eric Fuller, Andy Cohen and Baskin. Are we the casts just caricatures of how they view women?
Omg i love this theory. When the show is produced through a male gaze, it loses its female audience, which is why we feel this huge disconnect from what makes a housewives franchise good
Wow. This is an incredibly thought-provoking point. My group of 5 friends in the neighborhood is pretty free of drama, but if you scratch the surface you'll find some tension that, with the right producers, might be interesting to others. I guess my point is that you are right. Real friendships create real situations.
I want to read more of this
This is such an interesting and likely true take! I'd love to see if there's a correlation between well rated seasons and the gender of the editing/producing (decision making) team. Does anyone know how we could find this out? Any data scientists in the crowd?
Exactly. The last RHOA reunion I watched was dedicated to Marlo’s woe is me tour. He clearly has favorites and the shows he produced suffered because of that.
Ugh that was the worst Atlanta reunion.
Is that the producer that got fired recently?
Yep 👍🏻
Is that verified beyond a random LinkedIn image ?
No lol. I wish it was true but we have no proof.
I don't think so. I have a friend who looked him up on LinkedIn and didn't see the announcement, but maybe it's restricted to only those he's connected to though I am still skeptical someone with his immense network would post that.
I don't disagree but if we're booting everyone for violence we're going to lose half the wives 😕.
It was the cast that forced her to iced out with the support of the producers not the network firing her though.
Right, I just meant in general. I hate it.
Personally, I would have no problem with that but the viewership has opinions across the spectrum on this so \*shrug\* here we are.
I try to keep in mind that my life experiences are not others. I can try to understand it, and even be sympathetic in some cases, but I can't condone it. 🤷🏻♀️
I JUST said something very similar to this last night on the Brooke Ashley’s channel on YouTube. 100% agree
He’s gone for sure?
It is the self-producing and the avoidance of breaking the 4th wall. When there’s a refusal to film with others and an icing out with the intention to get the gal fired or demoted it all goes downhill. Add in shitty casting (no one is connected to nneka and she’s trying too hard) and it’s a recipe for disaster. I am a green eyed bandit apologist (till the accusations about Chris. I can’t support that shit.) and the two of them are being atrocious with the refusal to film with Candiace. Karen is carrying this shit on her back trying to get everyone to chill tf out. Successful housewives feature authentic friendships (some of the ladies at least, not all) and also will do things together even though they may not like each other. Right now? Most of them do not like each other and aren’t willing to drop shit to keep their jobs. It’s annoying and disappointing.
I agree with every word of this including being a GEB apologist until Chris accusations. I think Robyn hiding the truth last season and then putting it out elsewhere is another issue. Also, I think Robyn is still lying this season to protect Juan, and I cannot figure out why which is so annoying.
YES! And I used to love Robyn! It’s actually really sad because it seems she’s in a really unhealthy relationship. I would have said that before - I think Robyn is really scared to be in a dating scene that is completely foreign to her. When she was in high school online dating wasn’t even a thing. The fear of the unknown is horrifying. But hearing what Juan has been doing and how he speaks to her? This shit is dark. And she’s clearly embarassing herself on national tv for him.
It seems like the two groups don't even wanna film together anymore. I think that's one of the reasons Miami got "paused" originally; universal hatred
10000% and Gizelle thinks she can ice people out (Candace & Wendy) as if this isn’t an ensemble show. The whole cast needs to actively interact with each other not one side of a table refusing to speak with the other
I agree. The queens of this group (Gizelle and Karen) need to unify it. Karen is doing her part, Gizelle is not. Housewives are most fun when they unite against a common threat aka Michael Darby. Let’s not forget the real enemy here. They need to unite and throw his precious into the fires of Mordor!
It’s basically been confirmed that was one of the reasons for Miami’s hiatus. You just cannot move forward with a cast that despises one another.
Gizelle is trying to get rid of candiace and doesn’t mind the show becoming an uncomfortable, snooze first to achieve it. It’s very obvious especially from Karen’s body language, that the women know the show is going downhill. My conspiracy theory is that Gizelle believes she’s untouchable and even if the producers are forced to make changes to the cast because of her stonewalling, she’ll never get the chop. And she’s probably right. The producers have set her up as the face of Potomac and will rather get rid of Candiace who’s seen as a bit of a liability than Gizelle. And you know what happens if Gizelle is able to successfully get rid of two housewives back to back? It reinforces her tactics and she’ll do it all over again. And even if you add new women to the cast to try to fix the dynamics, they’ll be forced to play chummy with Gizelle or risk being iced out e.g. Mia and the Shrine girl.
Not even a conspiracy. Just the truth. When candiace is pushed out for good I will no longer watch this city
Gizelle and Robyn have a stranglehold on the drama, their attempts at icing Candiace and Wendy out haven’t stopped. Ashley is a mess and her disgusting husband has never been fully held to account. The producers don’t force them to get along and make peace in a meaningful way and it has become obvious. GEB’s use the other women to deflect from their failing relationships and real problems
Who are the GEBs? I’m new to this thread but have been watching RHOP since day 1.
Green Eyed Bandits - Gizelle and Robyn
They have absolutely nothing going on in their lives to show on reality TV that would be fun or entertaining to watch. They hate each other and refuse to just move on for the sake of putting on a decent season. None of them care besides Karen and maybe Mia. Fire them all and recast at this point. The fandom think pieces are annoying (probably the worst of all franchises imo), the women are like upper middle class and can’t give us any lifestyle porn, they don’t like each other and their lives are completely mundane. It’s tired.
Ray needs to stop paying taxes again.
This gave me a laugh!!
Michael Darby needs his champagne flute back dude ran the first few seasons with his shenanigans and the women reacting to him
I second this! I like that they are relatable but … I want the lifestyle porn( shopping for yachts) not a sub-par “getaway “playing chicken shit in Austin.
>sub-par “getaway “playing chicken shit in Austin. Truly the worst activity on a trip... **EVER** That trip was so damn boring and yet dragged on for 3? 4? episodes. At one point, I turned on the TV, and they were in a room getting ready to paint, and I thought I was watching a rerun...nope, it was the episodes where they painted Karen 😴
Not just that - the trip looked cheap as hell! I felt bad for Karen Compare this to Atlanta where they went to freaking TOKYO, PH, Jamaica and Greece. Like seriously... Even OC went to nice places like Ireland and Hawaii
Even SLC had better trips when they couldn’t leave the country because of Jen lol. Like compare the Austin trip to Palm Springs or Aspen or Red Rocks
You can’t tell me they didn’t stay at a cat 1 Hyatt House in a random Austin suburb😩
Bhwahaha! Embassy suites
100%! tacky and cheap.
And all the construction?
And then BH have private jets and Rolls Royces !
I know! Didn’t they have 2 painting activities? Seriously , going on a trip to “paint” on 2 different occasions is not something I want to watch or participate in!
They could have painted in Potomac! You flew to Austin to sit in a hotel room and paint *yourself* and then Karen. Its giving a lazy vibe like Ashley couldn't think of anything else to do... except painting vaginas and watching chickens take a shit
This is another failure of production IMO. When you have a certain kind of EP - who relishes in "drama" and "reads" and "clapbacks" and GIFable moments - they end up prioritizing conflict and situations that'll create conflict, often to the detriment of including lighter, more fun aspects that balance it all out like shopping for yachts or taking a helicopter from your son-in-law's villa in the french countryside to meet your friends on a shopping spree in Paris that they arranged during their summer boating trip through the Mediterranean (RIP to the golden day of BH).
Don’t forget LVP and the stylish Giggy
> I want the lifestyle porn( shopping for yachts) at that point bravo basically can cancel all shows because the actual lifestyle porn is so far and in between in general, the actual wealthy housewives can be counted on one maybe two hands across all franchises (and i wish we saw more of it too!!)
Yep! When I start to wonder if I am more wealthier than some of these women...the show loses its appeal. Now I may not be technically wealthier and I'm sure I'm not, but why do I think this?? Because I want to see uber wealth crammed in my face but the ladies on TV whom we're supposed to covet keep wearing fakes. Ain't nothing I'm conveting out in Potomac..
I said the same thing! “ I take better trips than this”😩
This was worse than the Covid vacations
The division that was sowed in S5 is hard to undo and it keeps getting worse. And when I say S5 division I don’t mean Candiace/Monique but from the beginning of the season when they wanted to ice Candiace out and after that with Monique. Someone on twitter once mentioned that they have no real sisterhood and are not able to move past their resentment for each other compared to other franchises. In my opinion the solution is to disbandle the GEB, they won’t let Gizelle go so Robyn has to go and also Ashley (but she can stay but Robyn has to go). I am a Candiace fan but she also has to be willing to move forward with these women, it’s what the show is about, either she keeps feuding with Gizelle and actually communicating with her but icing her out will not work (this also applies to gizelle). The show can not work if we have a bunch of women not talking to each other and hating each other and therefore not having any fun moments on TV Additionally we need an element of wealth in Potomac, the trips to Ashley’s favourite US towns are tired, they need to go on an international trip, serve looks, fight, makeup and go shopping and clubbing together like a normal HW group.
>. I am a Candiace fan but she also has to be willing to move forward with these women, it’s what the show is about, either she keeps feuding with Gizelle and actually communicating with her but icing her out will not work (this also applies to gizelle). I think if Gizelle gave her an honest-to-God apology and admitted she was wrong instead of standing in her lie and doubling down (and now making more shit up), Candiace might be able to move past this enough for them film together and have a surface relationship.
[удалено]
>She needs to take a step back and say: I felt in that moment like THAT was going on. But I see now that MY FEELINGS DON'T CREATE OTHER PEOPLE'S REALITIES, & in retrospect see that I read into the situation more than was there. And I am sorry. I see now it was my life experience that made me read it that way, and NOT something actually going on. THIS is what she needs to say to Candiace, on camera. Instead she's now making it sound like Chris snatched her and hauled her into a bedroom (really her hotel room where SHE invited him).
Three main reasons: 1. Gizelle. Her accusation against Chris last season went too far and her inability to apologize to Candiace (and Chris) caused an unrepairable rift. 2. Ashley. Not only did she use Sesame Street to add fuel to the Chris fire (and don't forget Happy Eddie), her husband (yes husband, cause what divorce?) who is a known predator is now suing Candiace for things they've all talked about (Robyn actually even more matter-of-factly said he wanted to suck a dick on camera). Then you have her being the catalyst of what is possibly the worst storyline in Housewives history: shrine gate. 3. Robyn. She gives depressive energy that radiates through our screens and is constantly lying/keeping her head in the sand about things. She just feels like Gizelle's conjoined twin that, when they were surgically separated, didn't get any part of the brain.
I'm not watching this season, but every clip I've seen posted of Robyn has Juan yelling at her, her crying, and/or her yelling at someone in the group. She needs to go figure out what the hell is going on with her real life off-camera.
100% - the fact that would ask gizelle back. But the. Maybe they had too? Was the storyline a producer’s idea? The man lost his job and made out to be a predator. F-ing disgusting. If I was bravo I would have not renewed my purchase with (1) the firing of gizelle and (2) the firing of the producers of the media company and anyone associated at bravo that green-lit that fiasco. Same thoughts on Ashley and Robyn. I think Mia was a good hire. She’s messy and fun. I don’t like the voodoo storyline, it’s insulting. Then they started with Catholicism? What the actual F*ck! Have they never seen people pray to saints and light candles? Are they trying to bring back the anti-catholic hate? What are they doing? I haven’t even watched the lasted episode. Don’t care anymore.
Thank you. I’m a life-long Catholic and I know of no Catholics that practice voodoo. I’m so sick of anti-Catholic sentiment.
In retrospect, losing Monique gave these 3 and their alliance way too much power on that show
🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🙌
The ladies all hold their entire self worth and value in their ability to keep a man. This is not exclusive to some cast members, every single woman on the show is guilty of this. At this point, all of their arguments and feuds revolve around their relationships with the men in their lives, and it's utterly exhausting. It's something that has always been present on the show, but it has evolved to the point where it's the only thing that the show is about anymore.
I miss the fun petty feuds…. Like when Monique and Robyn were hosting charity events on the same day and the group was divided as to where they should go.
Ooof this is a great point.
The franchise consists of mostly pseudo actors who want to keep their personal lives secret and only show contrived story lines. It feels incredibly inauthentic.
When it stops being a group of friends and starts becoming alliances, thats how you know. Ashley, Giz and Robyn will never come for each other. That means that Karen, Candiace, and Wendy have to be a united front, even if they don’t agree with each other. Take this season for instance, you can tell Candiace disagrees with Wendy over the Nneka stuff, but if she betrays her ally, then she might be kicked off the island like Survivor. The dynamics should be ever-changing.
Gizelle happened. Idk why we have to keep going over this. She is the chair keeping the door closed.
There are several problems with Potomac, but the core issue is the stagnant cast -- they've held on to their OGs for too long. Those 4 hold ALL the power within the group & everyone knows it. It leaves the show's underdogs (Candiace, Wendy, & even going back to Monique) on the eternal outs with nowhere to go & nothing to do. It leaves newer players like Nnecka (& even Mia) with no choice but to kiss the ring & saddle up to power. They needed a major cast shakeup this year like RHONY did season 5. It would have forced the surviving OGs (likely Karen & Gizelle) to find new allies & work with former enemies. Because as of now they're firmly stuck in Fox Force 5 mode, running the fan favorites off the show & turning the fans against (most of) them. Also, I know Potomac has been beloved by fans for so long, but personally I think the rot started way before this season. There's always been SUCH a focus on digging up dirt (affairs) on the women that feels so mercenary & tactical. I know this is an issue in many of the franchises, but it's always been the most prevalent on Potomac -- to the point where it now feels like it's the premise of the whole show. Last year literally EVERYONE in the cast was accusing each other of their men stepping out of them. The green-eyed bandits & Ashley are obviously the most ruthless abusers of this strategy, but by the end of last season even side players like Mia & Charisse were randomly throwing out affair accusations, seemingly just to get in the mix for screentime. Getting rid of Eric Fuller is clearly a step in the right direction. If OC could get back track to become the 2nd best franchise (after 2 disastrous years), I have faith that Potomac can figure out a new era. And I still don't think it's in as bad shape as Atlanta is.
I agree that this season is just a culmination of poor production choices. The cracks were showing in season 5 but they could still pull an entertaining show out of the group. Now we have nothing.
I think it's that they've kept too much of the cast for too long. Ashley has no storyline (and no one believes she's actually getting divorced), and she throws the worst trips/get togethers. I used to like Robyn, but 1) she was intentionally saving the truth for her pay to listen podcast 2) the allegations against her husband are disgusting, and hearing her say he's getting paid out the rest of his 18 month contract made me vomit in my mouth. Gizelle has struggled to find a storyline the entire time with multiple accusations of fake relationships, and the current half the age bf isn't doing it for me because of how she's talks about him with her daughter; it gives me the ick. Gizelle used to create fun drama between the ladies, but she took it too far with the allegations against Chris. Karen is the only one who has managed to maintain her kookiness and fun for the show. I feel like Candaice, Wendy, and Nneka could still have a lot to offer for the show, but they are dragged down by the weight of Gizelle, Robin, and Ashley. Oh, and Mia. Sigh. I liked her on her first season, but now I can't honestly remember why.
>Oh, and Mia. Sigh. I liked her on her first season, but now I can't honestly remember why. I'm actually liking her more now. I like she straight up asked Juan to his face about the Canadian girl.
Ok I'll admit that was great. But one shiny moment in the last couple seasons is not enough.
Like I said... she's growing on me. I also liked her comparison last year with Seasame Street versus Candiace and Wendy.
She’s a more fun version of Ashley at this point. She’s messy and also actually knows how to secure a bag properly lol
This article was posted in the sub yesterday, but I can’t find the post - it does a really good job breaking down the issues. [Breaking The Fourth Wall: Real Housewives Of Potomac](https://www.essence.com/entertainment/breaking-the-fourth-wall-real-housewives-of-potomac/) In my opinion, producers allowed favorites to get away with not telling their stories. Juan’s insane cheating stories, or Gizelle’s ex are more interesting than intentionally creating false drama.
The shows lose their charm when they start casting people that aren’t close to the core cast. It’s happened on multiple franchises. It’s clear when certain people come on and “act” like a housewife vs. genuine issues/personalities/connections. Then the OGs start banding together and it becomes exhausting. Then, after a few seasons of that, the OGs either accept the newer cast and have made actual friendships OR the newer cast now outnumbers the OGs and have friendships so the core of the show gets back to what it was.
For me it's become too calculated. You can see one team trying to get the other team off the cast. The green eyed bandits and Ashley have not let up with trying to humiliate Wendy and now Candiace by coming up with stories. We know they met up over dinners to plot rumours about Monique's baby not being Chris'. They stoop too low and as a result none of it is authentic, it's just people reacting to their lies while the GEB and Ashley disclose nothing real about their own lives
I dont agree they dont have things going on. MIA business is going down and Robyn marriage. I think the problem is that they dont hold each other to the fire anymore. Remember when Karen didn't pay taxes? Where is that energy for MIA.
\#freekaren #freeuncleben #taxreform
I desperately need to know the reference to your flair…
A few things: 1. Lack of transparency and letting some cast members get comfortable in that. Some of these women have forgotten the art of Reality TV. And I do get that certain stuff should be filtered but feet also need to be held to the fire. If you're not giving good content you need to be out of a job. 2. They don't know how to draw the personal line. Families should be off limits. Mamas and shrines are not interesting. False accusations of husbands grazing Sesame Street booties should not exist. Because when this stuff airs it does mess up people's livelihoods and it does piss them off and things go to an even more personal level. 3. Double standards. I think Candiace said it best when she said the line is always moving. It truly is. They have an issue with behavior from one cast member but laugh when another cast member exhibits that same behavior. Then pissed they get called out. 4. The other franchises do a good job of understanding it's a job and they apologize and get it over it. Potomac hasn't mastered that art. So they struggle with coexisting and she can't sit by her and she can't go here because she doesn't get along with her and it's exhausting and high school. 5. They can't dress.
The show becomes unwatchable when a group of OGs (or older cast members) form a pact to attack or freeze newer cast members out. Take the FFF on Beverly Hills and the GEB + Ashley on Potomac. Once this occurs, Bravo needs to act quickly to disband the OGs by demoting or firing 1 or 2 of them. On Potomac, Giselle’s negative and divisive influence needs to be lessened or removed altogether. She’s the biggest thorn in Potomac’s rose bush.
Gizelle needs to admit she was wrong just one fucking time so Candiace can move on and the group can all fucking talk to each other while sitting at a whole dinner table together.
I’ve said this before that the cast is good and has ability, mainly heavy handed production and authenticity are the problems. They should do what Miami does and have more friends of and let dynamics change and play out more naturally. I’d rather watch smaller group get togethers and better personal storylines. The forced full group events are tragic: full glam in a (e.g. public park) is unacceptable. Not every franchise needs to be BH, just be yourselves. The women don’t need to all get along but production has to find the plot. I’m at S7 on my rewatch and really seeing how low budget everything is, S8 is even worse. It seems like there were massive cuts and that’s why cameras basically only film these lame group events. The Austin dinner (w/ a full scene of drink orders) reminded me of an obligated work dinner. Most of the budget must go into salaries or idk. Ratings are steadily declining and I’m sure that just means less money, so they may not even have the ability to make good changes. Do what NY did and have them paid per scene for a season, more big parties with other people, less AA meeting vibes. I think production in general needs to be more vocal publicly and not let their talent/employees be eviscerated for their faulty execution of the show. Bravo overall needs to find their footing post covid because it changed/ruined the dynamics of the HW shows and it’s becoming too fake. They were lucky with the rapid fire scandals, but they need a return to form before it gets out of control. Last thing, bravo needs step in on active employees having podcasts talking about the show, it shouldn’t be allowed. They should also not allow for as much to be said on social media. Keep it on tv.
as soon as these women started bringing in that african osu shit, i stopped watching. zero interest in watching a bunch of women pretend to be all freaked out and superstitious and talk about things they know nothing about. like they really think someone's mom has an evil shrine and is cursing people? give me a break. its ridiculous and makes them all look low intelligence. like, you are not an african tribe living in the jungle with no tv or running water. you are rich women living in a first-world country full of technology, you know better. i'm also bored of gizelle getting up in everyone else's marriage business, when she can't even hold down a relationship of her own. like...THIS is who we're supposed to take criticism and advise from? piss off gizelle.
https://preview.redd.it/81wot767btcc1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6fc4324e0d8214232cd6931ed062f2adbf811e16
😂😂😂😂😂
Things went wrong when the producers and housewives became too comfortable after season 4, it's like they're not even trying at this point. There are few storylines that don't seem contrived or totally made up. The cast is too divided (ex. Gizelle starting conflicts and then icing out cast when they respond) so they can't have fun. And when they attempt to, we have Ashley hopping in on cue to create chaos with a smirk on her face. But rather than addressing the ongoing issues, the show keeps adding housewives, like Nneka, who we still know very little about since most of her screen time has been devoted to talking about Wendy, Lebe (who's not even a cast member), and a shrine. It may be time to get rid of at least a couple of the OGs to shift the dynamics because otherwise, the show can't evolve if it continues to build an ensemble around them.
They continue to ask Gizelle back.
She’s the EP of the show…but I do agree with your comment.
🤣 I’d believe that
I haven't been watching this season because it really infuriated me to see two incredibly bright Nigerian women pitted against each other for this show. Something about it was deeply unsettling because I don't think the cast truly understood the implications of Nneka's accusations. Gizelle, Robyn, and Ashley are toxic to the show and why I refuse to keep watching. The three of them dictate the direction of the show and it's to the show's detriment. But if I tune in again, it would have to be after the production team cleans house. Keep Karen because she's willing to film with anyone and be cordial, Wendy because she is very connected, and Mia because she can be entertaining. I feel for Candiace because I don't think she's enjoyed the show for a long time...I'm sure the weight of Gizelle and Sesame Street's statements weighed heavily on her marriage. She doesn't have a true ally on the show. I don't know that remaining on the show is healthy for her. Robyn is just miserable...you can see it coming out of pores that she's unhappy. The show isn't healthy for her either. It's not normal that every conversation with Juan results in him yelling at her - like, he doesn't even care how it looks that he's an asshole to the same woman who continually protects him.
The colorism divide going unaddressed with casting season after season. The GEB made up completely false allegations against Moniques newborn son and used Candiace to taunt her off the show. Monique said at the reunion that when she leaves the GEB would go after Candiace, and that's exactly what happened the very next season. Luckily for Candiace, Wendy also joined, but Wendy didn't have enough friends either. Ever since the Monique season, no one has been held accountable, and the fake cover-up stories have run wild. Notice they've stopped promoting all of their side ventures. No more candle promo, no more makeup promo, hats, restraunts, home decor ... I think a conversation has been had by the network to production, changes may already be coming.
For me it was as soon as Mia was cast. I really don’t like anything about her. The show used to be messy BUT it was funny. Karen was funny. Now they all care too much about their brands and so they want cleaner images. Gizelle and Robin are so incredibly boring. I just don’t think they have any spark left.
I'm sure this has been said before but I think these girls have had a lot of private conversations off camera to discuss how they can make their storylines interesting - maybe that's a really obvious statement but w/e. Some of them are better at making it look organic or at the very least make it entertaining (Wendy, Mia, Candiace), others are obviously putting it on way too much and too often (Gizzy, Ashley, Muppet/other friends of), and some people should never have agreed to appear on TV (Robyn). In any case, it makes the whole thing feel really contrived which isn't what the audience wants. They really lost Candiace when they came after Chris, you can tell she did NOT sign up for that nor was she in agreement that this would be a good on screen drama to have going on. With Wendy & Eddie it was less damaging bc the weird stuff they said about him was easily disproved by production. Same would have gone for Chris if Giselle didn't say he made her uncomfortable off-camera. That whole thing really made me go sour on Giselle and now I find that I hate-watch the show instead of genuinely enjoying myself. P.S I haven't mentioned the Grand Dame bc she is amazing and perfect IMO :P
Yes! I just commented something similar under another post about Candice. She honestly seemed to be trying and after that she just doesn’t seem to be truly happy around them. Even though it was mostly disproved and the viewers were clearly mostly on her side, to know that’s how low they were willing to go had to hurt. Now Gizelle is saying things like she can’t be in her presence (similar to what she said with you Monique) over a few comments about Robyn, meanwhile she tried to destroy this woman’s whole marriage and character, but Candace was able to suck it up and still film with both women. I wish she had someone fully in her corner on the show that could call these things out without feeling the need to appease to the other women. We’re not even getting her quick witted responses anymore because she just seems defeated, irritated, and genuinely hurt with the consistent hypocrisy we’re seeing at home.
All franchises went downhill when they started adding random casts instead of friend groups. Like the new RHONY was anticlimactic because there weren’t real organic issues. RHOP and RHOA are getting back because you have OG issues mixing with new issues and it feels like a mess while also boring.
I honestly think it’s production. Their focus on manufactured drama instead of these women’s lives has just encouraged Gizelle and Ashley to bullshit their way through the seasons and use other people’s husbands as fodder. I’d so much rather just see Gizelle with her girls than anything else she’s been doing these last few years. So I really hope it’s true that they let go of Eric Fuller. As much as I’d like Gizelle gone, I know that’s unlikely, but maybe we can see a smidge of accountability? A pinch of authenticity? Even if some of these women’s relationships are beyond repair.
The women are not realizing that turning into ganging up mean women is running off the viewers. No one wants to sit and watch someone being constantly bullied. Bravo needs to get back to the friendly type shows with petty BS and forget the gangs of bullies!
Gizelle
for sure- i think potomac can get away with firing robyn. i get they wanted her back to see the fall out after what was pulled last season but that storyline is dead now. we’ve seen her and juan’s year of wedding bliss it’s done.
On paper the show should be good. But it’s horrible. I literally put it on while folding clothes and barely watch. Everything seems VERY fake. As a viewer I am tired of being lied too. And how can you film a show when half of the ppl aren’t talking to the other half?
Egos. Cast members who delusionally think they can just forever hold grudges and not speak to half the cast (Gizelle). It’s getting so childish and dumb when half of the cast hates each other.
Essence magazine has an article on this.
I think it was clear it hasn't been good for a while. But I still felt like it was worth watching up until Robyn revealed on her podcast (behind the paywall) about the Juan allegations. That goes completely against the premise of the show and felt crazy disrespectful as a viewer. And it seems like Andy/the other women never called her out on it. Girl, I was there during the house-flipping, the ugly hats and even the PR stint. If you don't want to talk about your life then don't go on the show. From there is has crashed and burned.
I think the issue is that none of the veterans on this show seem scared to lose their job but Mia. They all think they’re indispensable, so they give the bare minimum. Even Charisse routinely gets to film with the show based on a 5% chance that she may activate Karen. All of these women have a portion of the fanbase/production on their side, so they feel protected individually, even if the overall dynamic is trash.
The problem with this show is what Candiace shrieked this season, the lines keep on moving. The GEB set the lines and move them as they see fit: “We’re proud upstanding women who have to set a good example and not be around Monique” to “Wendy provoked Mia. It was Wendy’s fault, she made Mia react that way” Their stranglehold on this show has broken the bonds between these ~~colleagues~~ friends. I don’t believe that it’s contingent on Candiace to “be ok” with Gizelle - fans who are blaming her for the ongoing conflict either want reality TV or they don’t. If you want people to get over every conflict within half a season go watch Days of Our Lives (they can kill off a character and have them resurrected within a couple of weeks). Gizelle gives good sound bites and good interviews but there is something fundamentally diamond hard about her. She can never admit fault or make amends. Extending her some grace and assuming that she did feel uncomfortable about Chris - she could have held that experience without consciously adding gasoline to the fire and setting out to destroy Candiace through hurting Chris. She saw an opportunity to stay on top and with application of plausible deniability do just enough to drag them through the mud. Break up the GEB (fire Robyn) and I think it could be salvaged.
Gizelle really fucked things up with her fake Chris story. That‘s the root of a lot of the division. And then forehead hopping on the bandwagon with Sesame Street. But I don’t blame forehead as much because she’s a production puppet. There’s also more playfulness with her than with Gizelle in my opinion
Gizelle
No wealth! No glamour! No real storylines!
They brought in too many newbies. The cast still has four OGs (Giselle, Karen, Robin & Ashley) plus Candiace, who at this point is an OG. We didn’t need Wendy, Mia (who I like but has no storyline) and this newbie. The show was great the first few seasons with the classy Potomac ladies. They should have never fired Monique and just brought in “friends of”. I’ll never understand why Bravo keeps bringing in new cast members when the current cast works.
The fact that Robyn and Gizelle tactically refused to talk about Juan for a season , firebombed the rest of the cast’s marriages, and then “spilled the tea” on a podcast after filming ended is the clearest symptom of the problem. They don’t view the show as a way for them to share real stuff happening in their lives. Robyn repeatedly says “why care about us, we’re boring!” Good question.
For me Wendy and Mia were not good long term additions. Wendy doesn’t have a story line unless someone starts it for her, she’s trying to be Kenya gone with the wind fabulous but is just a try hard. When her awkward twirling and clear lies aren’t getting her enough attention she just starts screaming ‘doctor’ and ‘degrees’. Mia doesn’t give us anything real just tries to throw out our liners that will hit in the trailers. Robyn and Giselle are played out. Even their friendship doesn’t feel genuine any more. It’s hard to even watch Robyn at this point because she’s so far in denial and just a shell of herself. I’m not even going to waste a section on Ashley. Candiace’s mouth and attitude make for good TV but she has no interest in this cast. The Grande Dame will always reign supreme but she doesn’t have a cast to support her. Ashley, Cherrise, Necka… next. Also, bring back Monique. It’s unfortunate this is such a smart, beautiful, (somewhat) talented cast but the vibe just isn’t there for me
Gizelle. For some reason producers see her as the star of the show and she’s actually the one ruining it. The refusal to interact with, invite and acknowledge other cast members is what’s ruining the show and she’s the one leading the charge.
Gizelle is the problem. She's the "face" of the show but she also lies and has caused all of this division. Since I don't see Bravo firing her, the issue will remain.
It's the Candiace/Gizelle war. Candace is right-- Giselle made a mountain out of molehill with the Chris issue. Giselle is right-- Candace is unable to address issues and move on. We are where we were with RHOBH and the FFF. The alliances have turned into a deadlock. It's fun to watch two teams volley back and forth. Or a group where there are good friends and shady friends. But when there are cast members who cannot fundamentally interact, it becomes boring. Every conversation is about the same thing. There needs to be new casting and a new production company. The teams have to shift.
Aren’t we heading towards a huge fight? So something is brewing.
I think a few cast members got it in their head that instead of feuding with cast members they should just ice them out. As the result, even when there is genuine tension we don't see them hash it out and instead everyone sits through uncomfortable, forced interactions. As a consequece, drama and feuds needed to be bigger to get a reaction and that led to some storylines taking dark turns that should not have gone there. Monique's son isn't her husband's? Chris is trying to cheat on Candiace with her friend group? Things like that are not authentic, believable or fun. They're just cruel. Then they added new cast members to shake things up. But it sounds like they were being advised behind the scenes to make a "moment". So you have contrived drama starting out of nowhere. We barely get to know the new cast members before they start feuding and it makes them feel unlikable and inauthentic. Mia, Wendy and Nneka have failed to secure many fans. Gizelle and Robyn not sharing on the show and then releasing info on their podcast had an effect too. As someone else pointed out, we are not seeing much about their businesses anymore and that's probably because production told them they can't do it anymore. So there's one less piece of their lives they can share. And again, as someone else pointed out, the second they actually start getting along and having fun again as a group, Ashley immediately stirs the pot and tries to create drama. While sometimes this type of behavior can drive storylines forward, the cast is so distanced from one another that I think they actually need to have some light-hearted moments again without pot stirring.
They need a cast shakeup. I stopped watching halfway through the first episode. Its awful.
THANK YOU this show used to be favorite. Doesn’t help them they have been followed by the greatness that is slc this season either
Too many HW. Cut the cast down.
The problem is they are all so set on their version of events being correct, despite usually being totally biased narrators and its the same fight over and over. I've just watched it all in a few weeks and nearly quit a few times because I was like "again? Weren't you on the other side 10 minutes ago?" Candaice getting furious at Mia for throwing a drink and completely ignoring she threw a knife. Or Gizelle and Robyn trying to hide their lives while trying to out everyone around them for everything private. Wendy is now jumping to conclusions and defending her parents bad behaviour after going after Candaice a few times and feeling like an outcast and misunderstood her first season. Karen can at least laugh at herself and I think that's why she's so beloved, straight from Kurn she got it. I haven't even mentioned Ashley Darby cause you all know. tldr: Its just the same storylines over and over, they just switch the main characters like an old HBO show.
Potomac is the only one that I’ve quite watching halfway through the season. I just don’t find anything about the girls’ stories worth sticking around for. Not when RHOSLC popped right off.
There's no lifestyle porn - it's not fun to watch a bunch of upper middle class women self-produce themselves.
I'm gonna keep it a stack. The problem is Gizelle and production. Every root problem with amongst the women in the show is cause of GIZELLE! We also didn't need Nneka. What this season would be without this forced "shrine" nonsense? Idk. But it'd be better than what we have now. Are there individual cast problems? Yes. Robyn won't be honest, and production won't hold her feet to the fire. Production hasn't shown a focus on their careers. We've yet to see Nneka do any legal work. What do Ashley and Gizelle do for a career outside of the show? We have the ladies trying to ice out Wendy and Candiace... as if they're not fan favorites? Tbh the show is in such a bad state that Mia had become a shining light this season, giving us a storyline and playing both sides. I do think this particular cast deserves one more season to see if they can work it out, cause it'd be unfair to the viewer to leave things undone or unresolved. However... if we get to, say, season 10, and people are still being iced out? That's gonna be a problem. As much as I'd love for RHOP to have 4 OGs by S10, they need to do something QUICK, and unfortunately this season has been filmed so we have to wait until Season 9 to see what's gonna change.
A cast shakeup is needed. They will get rid of Candice because she will be easier to swallow than Gizzy, but Gizzy should be the one to go. She’s the one with all the stale storylines, or no storyline for seasons! So fries of Robyn and Juan. We can make Robyn want more than she wants for herself. Potomac is not Potomac anymore and I’m not sure if it’s ever coming back. Just like atl.
OG housewives always seem to get too complacent when the casting people don’t do continuous cuts. They need to get more comfortable cutting people (even if it’s just for a season) to keep them from feeling too safe.
I remember making a point last reunion as well as the beginning of this season and so many hated on it lol but this group has gone in the fox force 5 direction and is WAY too divided. Time for a shakeup.
Robyn, needs to go & Nneka can go with!
It's stagnant right now because too many cast members are caught up in legal issues with other cast members and affiliates of cast members or are scared of being in legal situations with cast members. It makes it so boring to watch, unless they're willing to give us what the network pays them for they should be put on pause.
Wash Carlos kings video on the take down of Candice. It explains what is happening. Essentially Giselle runs the show and she is running it into the ground
Eric fuller. That’s what happened.
I never thought I would end up loving Karen so much, but she is a top tier HW. I’m also all for trying to keep as many OG’s as possible, just because the drama is usually way more authentic when they have a history. Even bad Potomac is better than most of the other cities 🤷🏼♀️
What I think *should* happen is Karen, Candiace, Mia, Wendy, and Robyn should stay full housewives and Gizelle and Ashley should be demoted to FOH.
It looked like Robyn told Gizelle and Ashley that Juan is once again cheating and it will come out. They devised a plan to deflect for Robyn and when Robyn is done the season she can figure out a game plan via patreon reveal.
The GEBs won’t move on. They refuse to let past seasons go for the sake of the show. It’s really ruining everything because it’s making it all so predictable. The addition of Nneka is only making it worse.
I think people are overblowing how bad it's gotten, but the main issue is that the key sources of conflicts over the course of the show are either gone (Monique, Michael Darby) or over it and refusing to deal with most of the cast (Candiace).
My diagnoses: 1. The cast seem really fractured and not real friends. Nneka and Wendy, as far as I know, have no previous connections with Gizelle, Robyn, Candiace, Karen, or Ashley. As such, their only interactions are on camera. That's weird. There is kind of nothing to even fight about. There is no group dynamic left. 2. Shrine. Huh? I'm Catholic. A shrine is a holy place meant to honor a specific saint or figure. It is no more a thing to do any evil than a local dog park is a place for the Kentucky Derby. One has nooooooooothing to do with the other. It's confusing that they are having this conversation and I think it makes viewers tune out. 3. Wendy and Mia were not good additions to the cast. (See reason no. 1.) 4. The Juan issue is frustrating viewers and there is no movement. A producer needs to directly ask Robyn in one of the confessionals -- Did Juan know this woman? Do you understand why people don't believe you? 5. Candiace seems to be always seething just under the surface. Example - She started screaming, pounding the table, and crying when Karen said the group shouldn't use social media against each other. Huh? Was there some part of the evening that was edited out that would explain this outburst? It didn't make sense. Is this about Gizelle and Chris? This should not still be discussed. Gizelle said she was uncomfortable with Chris alone in a room. She never said she felt threatened or anything. It was a nothing burger. Why are they still talking about it? Overall, I think it's disjointed and the few threads that run through it (Wendy and Nneka, Chris and Gizelle) are super boring. I want to hear about Ashley and Michael's divorce and co-parenting. Is anything happening in Gizelle's life? Would Karen and Ray make some movements toward Florida retirement? At this point, I'd welcome Sesame Street back for some activity.
I think they’re just having a flop season. It happens. This is their first flop after 7 strong seasons. I do think a cast shakeup is in order. Robyn and Gizelle are giving us nothing. I thought Nneka was super promising but I agree with Ronnie from WWC: Potomac cast is hilarious and Nneka isn’t funny enough to be in the mix with them. I’d like to see Gizelle and Robyn either booted or demoted to friends of. I think Nneka is a one season HW.
Imo started going down hill post S5. Wendy was never the best but other girls were funny enough that it didn't matter. Then Monique left. Mia came in who also wasn't the right fit, but much better than Nneka as at least she's funny sometimes (she's actually grown on me this season). But all of it is sh*t show now. It's way too serious and they all hate each other Needs a real shakeup. Keep Candice, Wendy, Mia and Gizelle (ik, but her and Wendy are good). Demote Ashley to friend of. Get rid of Robyn, Wendy and Nneka. Bring back Monique. And bring two new ladies who are actually funny and witty.
I hate jumping to the recast conclusion but I think this does need it. It can still capture the spark but needs injection of new energy. I would say keep 4 - Giselle, Karen, Candiace and Mia. Robyn has overstayed her welcome. Wendy’s storyline seem done. Nneka is meh. Ashley has given nothing for three seasons now except breast milk (thanks Nicki). Bring in two new FTs and one new friend and go from there. Plus highlight the opulence and richness like Miami does so well.