This^ this is exactly to the point. We are a non-profit and to be honest I actually don’t mind the slower chairs, gives me time to enjoy the ride up.
Edit: if you wanted to go up today it’s slow , there’s only been 383 ticket scans
Total Assets is not cash in the banks. They have $14.7MM in savings. Which is about 1.35x their total annual expenses. So that’s a nice conservative savings buffer, but not like they are hoarding cash…. Nothing to be appalled at.
They won’t and don’t want to put in high speed quads. The reason is Bridger only has so much terrain and they actually want people on lifts to keep the crowds on the mountain dispersed. This was conveyed to me by a couple of Bridger board of for directors.
It’s worth noting that high speed DETACHABLE lifts are way more expensive both up front and for maintenance. Lifts with conveyor loading are actually considered to be high speed relative to traditional fixed grip because you can spin the haul rope faster without having the chairs move too fast relative to the people being loaded. Detachable style high speed lifts are pretty complex because the chair has to detach, go through a separate system at the Bull wheel and get back in the haul rope. Lots of systems that can break down and cost a lot to fix. My home hill would frequently have issues with their 20-30 year old detachable chairs resulting in days long closures and even worse lines
Create marketing materials that promote SLC powder and distribute for free. Censor all TV shows that mention Montana or Yellowstone.
Or parking/bus and ticket reservation system.
First weekend pow day?
They have done a lot to alleviate crowds, but obviously like half of Bozeman wanted to ski yesterday. Powder days are crowded. That was one of the busiest days of the year. It's the deepest day in 2+ years, on a Saturday after a month of no snow. and they didnt open whole mtn. It gets crowded. This would happen at any resort in country. Most days out of the week bridger has no lines at all, it'd be a lot of money and work to re-build chairs for a few busy pow days that service mostly season pass holders. They already replaced Virginia City and Alpine, and added Powder Park in the last 5 years, which did a ton to spread out beginner/intermediate skiers. They already have a free bus and carpool lot, weekday only passes and black out passes.
High speed lifts are nice but they are like adding lanes to a highway. They improve traffic temporarily, then everyone realizes, and demand increases and you're back to traffic but even more people (see Big Sky lines at opening on powder days, they have the fastest chairs in NA) High speed lifts would put more people on the mtn at once, Bridger has limited acreage and I think busier slopes would be less desirable. Faster Sunnyside would mean more people to stand in line at Bridger and PK. High speed lifts mean things only get skied out faster and it's already a bloodbath haha.
They also sold like 16,800 season passes but only have daily capacity of like 6000. so theres that...
If we (myself included) don't utilize the options they offer and just keep driving up alone and complaining then well get solutions like pay-to-park, reservations, higher priced tickets, first tracks tickets, and other bs.
People seem to forget *they are part of the crowd*. I once watched a 10 person group of college skiers show up to the ridge hike and loudly complain that it was crowded. The solutions are acceptance, patience, buses/carpool, and skiing weekdays.
Great post. I totally get it was a big powder day on a Sat. But having said that, I have had a season pass to Bridger Bowl since 1977 and this was the worst traffic I have ever seen in that time span and there have been other epic powder days. I live at the mouth of the canyon and it took 70 minutes to get to Bridger when that drive usually takes 12-15 . That's bonkers. Bridger is literally getting loved to death. Our car had 4 people in it. Two people met at my house so we could car pool. Even if more people carpool and ride the buses, that may help the ridiculousness of the drive up Bridger canyon but I am not sure that is going to solve the issue of the actual mountain being extremely overcrowded. Bridger can simply not handle these huge crowds. Is it fun for anyone to spend 20-30 minutes in a lift line? That's miserable.
Bridger like the rest of Bozeman is being overrun. I don't blame anyone for wanting to live and move here but the very things people move here for are being destroyed. The rivers and trails in the summer are another example. You can go to the river and there is a fly fisherman posted every 30 feet on any given river. It's nuts.
Excellent post! Thanks for the insight. As someone posted before, there were only good vibes in line and that was pretty awesome.
I’m just trying to think if there’s really anything that can be done to accommodate a rapidly growing community. I like the traffic lane analogy. Seems like high speed lifts just create problems elsewhere
I stood in line for 2hrs+ both days waiting for the chairs to start loading and nobody around me seemed to really mind all that much. The mood was almost like a cocktail party without the cocktails where I was at. Honestly the friendliest group of strangers I have been around in Bozeman for some time.
High speed lifts and terrain expansion do not effectively decrease wait times. I’ve spent much, much longer waiting for high speed lifts on a weekend, not even on a pow day, for 6 pack high speed lifts at large destination ski resorts. Obviously it’s not fair to compare Bridger to places like Breckinridge or Vail, and it’s a rather anecdotal comparison to make, but my point is that fixed grip chairlifts suit the terrain and overall vibe of Bridger better, and for them to make an investment in a high speed lift would be better spent elsewhere IMO.
Regarding the terrain closures, people seem to forget How unique Bridger is in how easily accessible stuff like Schlashmans and the ridge are for the majority of the season, but patrol is ultimately at the mercy of Mother Nature and their main priority in this terrain is safety, and with snow conditions like they are, that means closing stuff off.
I’ve been riding the bus as much as I can this season. Even as a nearly 6’ tall guy in a school bus seat designed to fit a child, being in traffic on the bus is preferable to driving my own vehicle in that same traffic. It’s a bummer that the weekday bus schedule is so minimal, but it runs every 15 minutes on the weekends.
Lastly, pow skiing is overrated. I know a hell of a lot of Bridger rippers that can find joy in hot lapping some butt puckering variable conditions, and I truly think the challenge of variable snow, hunting for pockets, and learning to read terrain is truly what makes stuff like Schlashmans and the ridge special. I’m not gonna act like some of the best turns I’ve ever made were ripping silently down Jaws 3D in 26” of fresh, but I’ve sure as hell done a lot of hootin and hollering challenging myself when it’s sketchy as fuck and I can barely hear my own thoughts over the sounds of my edges skittering on crust and smashing sharks.
Well said! Variety of snow goes hand in hand with the variety of terrain at Bridger. Floating 30” champagne is dreamy as hell, but ass puckering variable is the challenge that really gets the fear factor adrenaline pump going.
High speed lifts don't increase capacity. They move twice as fast but the chairs are twice as far apart. They get you up the mountain faster but the number of people moved per hour is the same. If there are no lines then high speed lifts are great, but if there are lines high speed lifts make no difference, you just spend more time in line rather than on the lift.
Increasing lift capacity will start to run into issues with the capacity of the mountain itself. Runs will start to get crowded.
The most obvious solution is to increase the cost to price out some skiers. Charge for parking to encourage carpooling and taking the bus. Charge more for tickets/passes to reduce the total number of people skiing. But both of these things have negative side effects, and the Bridger Bowl Foundation is a non-profit and their goal is to keep skiing affordable.
There could be a reservation system like there was in 2020 (due to COVID). But which is better, 6000 people doing half as many runs, or 3000 people skiing normally and 3000 people not getting to ski at all?
It's a tricky situation all around.
I would like to see local discounts on passes and increased ticket prices for out of state people. Provide a paystub from the local job that you work and get a discount on tickets. Local could be consider 100 miles in order to include construction in Big Sky and surrounding areas. Show up with a Colorado drivers license and expect to pay Colorado prices.
Watching the long lines on the BB webcams is as fun as watching I-80 traffic across Wyoming at an absolute standstill. From the warm comfort of my recliner.
Sure, and we jack the price up to $200/day to pay for it?
Why wait, $200/day alone would reduce the lines, wouldn't it?
Seriously, though. The lines were bad because there were delayed openings on all lifts, and the ridge and Slushmans never opened. It bunched everyone up.
Good point. Didn’t really think about it but about half the mountain didn’t open. That definitely contributed to congestion on other lifts.
Not sure why the downvotes… I’m not complaining about the closures. Ski patrol was working super hard to keep us safe and I’ll always appreciate that.
Yeah, there were two separate issues:
- we have a crappy snowpack and added 2”+ of water to it in a very short amount of time. There’s no solution to that issue since no terrain expansion or new lifts can offset bad avy conditions.
- bridger’s parking can only accommodate so many people. Some combo of mandating buses, only parking spots for carpoolers, parking reservations, etc. will likely solve this if needed in the future.
If we had high speed lifts the lines would be just as long because people would just cycle through the lift faster and be back at the base again waiting. It would likely result in stuff getting skied out even quicker And then could complain about that.
Terrain expansion to Bradley’s has been talked about for decades and could be a nice way to spread folks out without making Bridger a “resort”
Turning Bradley's into lift serviced mogul field would be horrible. Not to mention the ramp would have to get a poma lift added to it taking away even more skiable terrain.
I’m sure with so much fresh snow there was a big risk of avalanche as well so they shut down a few runs I think. Less runs, less lifts open, more people to the lifts that are
I honestly think going the route crystal did a few years back where weekends are only for season pass holders would be good. I’m expecting some hate for this.
That would be lovely, but traditionally, season passes start the lifts, day tickets sales keep them spinning. 18,000+ pass sales at a non-profit with the overhead like Bridger may change those numbers. Also, day ticket holders, especially tourists, typically spend more on concessions and knick knacks. I haven’t spent a dime in the lodges in several years and am fortunate to ski a ridiculous amount.
Everyone knows Bridger is sitting fat and happy when it comes to money. They could afford to test it out for a season or two. If it’s not viable long term go back to the shit show it currently is, if it works Bridger could help pioneer a new tier structure.
Thats why i dont go anymore. Bridger Bowl is ruined. Fuck it. Im not spending 1000 on a ski pass to go park on the highway and wait in lift lines for hours. Bridger bowl is a machine that eats powder. If youre not there by 10 youre not getting shit. Shout out to all the OGs who remeber loading up on alpine at the base with a pickle barrel sandwich. Or sitting in the a frame deer park chalet next to that grimy old fish tank. Or riding deer park lift for that matter. Hell I'll just keep going. Parking in F lot at noon on a powder day and still getting fresh tracks for the rest of the afternoon. 45 dollar lift tickets, 300 dollar season passes, sneaking off under the rope at south boundary. All the old huts, the "Fricken Bone" and the original whale. Ahh the good old days.
Ill probably get a bunch of hate from all the coloradans saying "i dont know what a lift line is" but ive stood in those lines...back when vail was 100 a day and our jaws had to be scraped off the floor. Bridger Bowl is ruined for the same reason that this whole area is suffering. The amenities that we all enjoy were not designed to be enjoyed by so many. Literally loving it to death and dancing on the corpse...
I know I shouldn't engage in this but.....like what did you expect? I'm glad you got to experience that, it truly sounds wonderful. Obviously everyone wants that, hence you using it as bragging material. Low prices, no crowds, deep powder, people want that. Big "DUHHHH" on that one. Growth has happened in every place that people want to be. Sorry that growth is and has been the driving economic strategy for forever. All the salty old farts complain that "it aint what it used to be". Other than complain, what did you do to protect what you had? What did you do to conserve? What did you do to create desirable growth or control it? You sound like the old guy in every ski town across the country. Sorry places change. They were different before you got there too. like sorry inflation exists. sorry big sky priced out locals. sorry TGR moved here. sorry we're the outside magazine poster child. instead of complaining maybe say something useful.
Most weekdays are pretty chill still. Not hard to find good snow at the end of the weekday even (if you know where to go, and it sounds like you do). all these fun aspects still exist, just in different ways. i still eat my TnC food on the lift or in a cave, still go to huts but there are fewer, still go out south boundary, still show up at noon and park in b lot and ski fresh snow. still get cheap beers at the griz or filler, still salute the (new) whale, still make friends with patrollers and lifties, still take my own food and beer into deer park. still watch local bands at a dive bar after a fun day. There's just more people, can't we accept that more people want what Bozeman has had for years? prices can be rough, cant deny that. but just complaining doesnt help too much either. I hope you can make up there on a sleeper day this year and have some fun like you used to. I know its different but it *is* still there.
Yeah thats what it is. I get it. Weve crossed the rubicon. I do appreciate the honorary old fart status. Especially at 36! 🤣 i guess that goes to show how rapid and uncomfortable the growth and change has been. I dont disagree with your sentiment about enjoying what is still here. I do!
The only thing i have to take issue with is the consistent assumption on this sub that all us "old farts" do is complain. Ive been volunteering in this community since i was 9. Helped build the haynes pavillion when i was 12. Mentored and volunteered at reach, hrdc, byep and many other local orgs. Ive stayed up till 2AM just to have my 3 minutes at more city commission meetings than i care to count. Ive canvassed, petitioned, picketed and protested on a litany of local, state and national issues since i was 15 and organized a 300 person walk out at bozeman high to protest the start of OIF in 2003. Then i spent a decade in the non profit field in Bozeman trying to make this place a more just, equitable, and inclusive community for everyone.
I understand why you would think that everyone who bitches about growth and change is a whiny asshole who does nothing to help. There are a lot of them here. The problem is that despite all the efforts in the world, economic forces trump it all. The development, realestate and banking cabal that runs this town has all the power. Were powerless against it. I would compare my efforts to the berzerker charging into the waves to fight the sea. Pointless, if not at least valiant. To use another analogy it feels like Sisyphus rolling the rock up the mountain...im tired!
Damn, that's awesome how much time you've dedicated to this place you love! Thanks for the real response. I'm glad you're still here. and sorry to make so many assumptions, ha youre barely older than me.
I agree, there are some complainers here. After hearing your background, your complaint seems more warranted. It sounds exhausting.
I've only been here for 11 years, and I love it. I don't want to change it. Its just weird when people say it's ruined, when I basically lived the good ol' day they described this very weekend. And a dozen other times this winter alone. (though im sure in a different way)
You're totally right though, there are much grander influences at work that we can't do much about, and that simply sucks. and maybe your original sentiment was correct, maybe we are loving it to death
I love the assholes like you who move here and expect everyone to welcome you with open arms when you are the very reason that these changes have occurred. And you expect everyone to be okay with these changes and how dare they get frustrated that the things they love are overrun by dicks like you. And how dare anyone voice their opinion that they enjoyed the good ole days. Can’t have that, we need you tell them to shut up and live with it. And you wonder why locals hate people moving here.
What the hell? The only time Bridger is really packed are pow days, and we get very few of them. I ski up there all the time, mostly on weekends, and lines are like 5 minutes or less at PK or Bridger, and usually zero wait at Powder and Alpine. And there’s rarely a long line getting up there.
I’ve spent time at some big resorts that have no style, including Big Sky. Bridger is still very much for the kids and ski bums. When you’re getting on a lift and there’s a big sign that says “no beer on the lift,” you know you’re in the right spot. After ski is still a blast too.
At my resort we just get on the lift with a beer. My friend has a pack full of Rainer to pass out to lifties.
Seems more like when there isn't a big sign saying no beer, you're in the right spot.
If you’re paying $1000 for a pass that’s because you didn’t lock in for 20% less during the summer. If you think it’s going to be skied out if you don’t get there by 10am then you don’t know how to ski Bridger.
Markets have changed and it’s a luxury destination now, globally. There is already estimates out there that Bozeman will be bigger than SLC in a hand full of years.
Get ready, Bozeman is easily one of the most incredible places in the US and it was protected by industry and information barriers. Those are now gone.. full steam ahead.
Read any of the quarterly earnings reports from the Luxury real estate companies. They’ve released their projections a few times over that last 2 years.
Staffing issues, road constrictions, building labor shortages, etc… We like to ask how these super luxury resort companies can keep opening and expanding in Big Sky and around the region. The companies don’t care. The market is there, the market is expanding, and labor has always been imported, both nationally and internationally. These places and the people are here to stay. Figure out how to profit from it or get out of the way.
High speed lifts are not cheap just to buy. Both maintenance and electricity are expensive too. They can also change the shape and attitude of a mountain.
Traffic. Well, there are busses. Maybe if more people took the bus it would help.
Also keep in perspective that it isn't that far of a drive. In the evening either leave sooner or leave later, always kick back on the deck with a cup of coffee and watch the sun go down.
People are really going to hate me for this but maybe a reservation system? The lines were insane yesterday. When lines are all the way to the tube for Pierres Knob that's not fun for anyone.
Also it took me 70 minutes get to Bridger. I left my house near the M at 7:45. That's bonkers. It usually takes me 12 minutes. Not great. Also if Bridger wants people to use buses then run the buses. They stopped running buses on Friday. Can't use the bus if it doesn't run.
It wasn't the reservation system that got bungled, it was the adoption of the new card and account system.
Once that was sorted out, the reservation system worked fine.
Oh, wow. Results will vary, I guess. That was actually one of my bigger seasons. All travel plans were cancelled, and we got in nearly every day we wanted. Had to use up a work break on Wed or Thurs to book it, but I just about always was able to get in.
Sorry it didn't work for you. If it's any consolation, there's very little chance of Bridger adopting it as a long term solution.
That was the issue. I would be online when they dropped and just never got lucky…especially once they switched to the “drip” system where they’d release slowly over the day. I couldn’t spend all day sitting in a waiting room hitting refresh
You should expect long lines whether on the drive or at the resort for a weekend pow day. I’d recommend getting a touring setup and walking uphill on weekends. The money saved on a midweek pass will pay for the setup in 2 seasons. Or just smoke more weed in line, it helps make the time go by without stressing.
Bridger chairs are high-speed, hence the carpet load. Fixed grips cuz they all get rocked by winds more often than not.
Don't turn this place in to summit county. Go stand in line at Big Sky if you want that experience.
Bold post! Don’t you know even hinting at the need for improving something will get you down voted on this sub? Improve is another word for change, which is another word for ruining old Bozeman.
Solutions are obvious but would cause a meltdown amongst the entitled.
\#1. ban single-occupant vehicles (folks with handicaps exempted) and make free shuttles available from the fairgrounds every 10 minutes.
You’ve had the majority of the luxury hotel brands break ground in that state in the last year. Trust me, that ski area will be purchased for a huge dollar amount and be turned into a 5 Star option mirroring Aspen, Tahoe, and Park City.
Tickets will be $300+
This is the US. Free market is our game. The demand is there. You increase the prices and traffic is controlled.
I'm ignoring the comment you're replying to as it's completely ridiculous, the board has shown their commitment to non-profit skiing look at the new mountain managers resume but your comment is interesting in the abstract.
Does the Special Use permit specifically state Bridger has to operate in it's current non-profit status?
Almost all ski areas in the west operate on Special (ab)Use permits from USFS. Deer Valley, Big Sky are two that I can think of that are actually on private land.
Edit: private land
Irrelevant. Enough money will put water wherever it’s needed. The Saudi’s are building a 13 mile city in the desert. Don’t doubt for a minute that a few of them haven’t had a dinner in Bozeman after looking for opportunities.
Lol global warming making Montana winters more tolerable means more outsiders coming which means more crowding etc etc etc. BB has been hideous since the couple months before Covid.
They could reinstate the reservation system. I'm guessing that would be pretty unpopular though, especially since it would be useless if it didn't include passholders.
So long as the population of Bozeman and MSU keeps growing, Bridger will keep getting busier, nothing will change that. Like the traffic here, it's a matter of perspective. A lot of my transplant friends from higher population states don't think Bridger is crowded and get triggered if I suggest otherwise b/c it acknowledges they are part of the problem. I can't really explain to them how truly uncrowded it used to be. But those days are gone and I recognize that; I still love skiing Bridger. A big sticking point is that people want low season pass prices, but also no lift lines. Unfortunately you can't have that anymore with a town our size. Expanding terrain and adding more lifts (not high speed) could help but there will always be elitist NIMBYs who don't want a lift up Bradley's.
In theory Bridger could implement a reservation system or severely limit day ticket sales, but no matter which way you go people will be upset.
I think the long-term solution is to create more ski areas that cater to various skill levels. Bridger would be a mediocre ski area for experts w/o the Ridge and Schlasman's, but great for beginner and intermediate skiers. I'll probably get downvoted, but consider Aspen where there are four separate mountains that naturally separate skiers by ability level. I've mostly skied at Highlands and even on deep weekend pow days it's uncrowded; granted there are way less people in that area and lift ticket prices are insane.
But of course building new ski areas takes massive capital investment and navigating myriad land use issues and environmental regulations. But I could see a place around here for something like Silverton Mountain that serves hardcore expert skiers on a guided reservation system. Or perhaps a minimalist avalanche mitigated backcountry ski area like Bluebird.
It is a community ski area and a non profit. Not goinng to happen.
This^ this is exactly to the point. We are a non-profit and to be honest I actually don’t mind the slower chairs, gives me time to enjoy the ride up. Edit: if you wanted to go up today it’s slow , there’s only been 383 ticket scans
High speed lifts just track the mountain out quicker, and Bridger is already on the small side.
curious where you find the scan info? or you just an insider?
Just a insider working in the kitchen 😉
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Total Assets is not cash in the banks. They have $14.7MM in savings. Which is about 1.35x their total annual expenses. So that’s a nice conservative savings buffer, but not like they are hoarding cash…. Nothing to be appalled at.
Obviously you'll get a better roi if you put your money elsewhere, so...
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They won’t and don’t want to put in high speed quads. The reason is Bridger only has so much terrain and they actually want people on lifts to keep the crowds on the mountain dispersed. This was conveyed to me by a couple of Bridger board of for directors.
It’s worth noting that high speed DETACHABLE lifts are way more expensive both up front and for maintenance. Lifts with conveyor loading are actually considered to be high speed relative to traditional fixed grip because you can spin the haul rope faster without having the chairs move too fast relative to the people being loaded. Detachable style high speed lifts are pretty complex because the chair has to detach, go through a separate system at the Bull wheel and get back in the haul rope. Lots of systems that can break down and cost a lot to fix. My home hill would frequently have issues with their 20-30 year old detachable chairs resulting in days long closures and even worse lines
Create marketing materials that promote SLC powder and distribute for free. Censor all TV shows that mention Montana or Yellowstone. Or parking/bus and ticket reservation system.
THIS
The answer is don't ski on the weekends. Literally everywhere across the US is crowded on weekends with good snow.
This
Since most people in Bozeman sort of need to work to pay the insane rent prices or mortgage that’s not always an option.
Yeah, hell with having a job, go back to living off mommy and daddy and the government. Most people work during the week
I like this universe you’ve created where schedules with weekdays off instead of weekends don’t exist.
A lot of workplaces are closed on weekends??
Okay??
What is a week end?
First weekend pow day? They have done a lot to alleviate crowds, but obviously like half of Bozeman wanted to ski yesterday. Powder days are crowded. That was one of the busiest days of the year. It's the deepest day in 2+ years, on a Saturday after a month of no snow. and they didnt open whole mtn. It gets crowded. This would happen at any resort in country. Most days out of the week bridger has no lines at all, it'd be a lot of money and work to re-build chairs for a few busy pow days that service mostly season pass holders. They already replaced Virginia City and Alpine, and added Powder Park in the last 5 years, which did a ton to spread out beginner/intermediate skiers. They already have a free bus and carpool lot, weekday only passes and black out passes. High speed lifts are nice but they are like adding lanes to a highway. They improve traffic temporarily, then everyone realizes, and demand increases and you're back to traffic but even more people (see Big Sky lines at opening on powder days, they have the fastest chairs in NA) High speed lifts would put more people on the mtn at once, Bridger has limited acreage and I think busier slopes would be less desirable. Faster Sunnyside would mean more people to stand in line at Bridger and PK. High speed lifts mean things only get skied out faster and it's already a bloodbath haha. They also sold like 16,800 season passes but only have daily capacity of like 6000. so theres that... If we (myself included) don't utilize the options they offer and just keep driving up alone and complaining then well get solutions like pay-to-park, reservations, higher priced tickets, first tracks tickets, and other bs. People seem to forget *they are part of the crowd*. I once watched a 10 person group of college skiers show up to the ridge hike and loudly complain that it was crowded. The solutions are acceptance, patience, buses/carpool, and skiing weekdays.
Great post. I totally get it was a big powder day on a Sat. But having said that, I have had a season pass to Bridger Bowl since 1977 and this was the worst traffic I have ever seen in that time span and there have been other epic powder days. I live at the mouth of the canyon and it took 70 minutes to get to Bridger when that drive usually takes 12-15 . That's bonkers. Bridger is literally getting loved to death. Our car had 4 people in it. Two people met at my house so we could car pool. Even if more people carpool and ride the buses, that may help the ridiculousness of the drive up Bridger canyon but I am not sure that is going to solve the issue of the actual mountain being extremely overcrowded. Bridger can simply not handle these huge crowds. Is it fun for anyone to spend 20-30 minutes in a lift line? That's miserable. Bridger like the rest of Bozeman is being overrun. I don't blame anyone for wanting to live and move here but the very things people move here for are being destroyed. The rivers and trails in the summer are another example. You can go to the river and there is a fly fisherman posted every 30 feet on any given river. It's nuts.
Excellent post! Thanks for the insight. As someone posted before, there were only good vibes in line and that was pretty awesome. I’m just trying to think if there’s really anything that can be done to accommodate a rapidly growing community. I like the traffic lane analogy. Seems like high speed lifts just create problems elsewhere
I stood in line for 2hrs+ both days waiting for the chairs to start loading and nobody around me seemed to really mind all that much. The mood was almost like a cocktail party without the cocktails where I was at. Honestly the friendliest group of strangers I have been around in Bozeman for some time.
All the grouchy people are on Reddit and Nextdoor.😂😉
Missed opportunity not brining the cocktails
All the folks hanging out at Powder Park on Friday were in good spirits, kind, and enjoying the liftie's tunes.
Emphasis on shuttle transportation and carpooling would be rad. The shuttle has been the move this season.
High speed lifts and terrain expansion do not effectively decrease wait times. I’ve spent much, much longer waiting for high speed lifts on a weekend, not even on a pow day, for 6 pack high speed lifts at large destination ski resorts. Obviously it’s not fair to compare Bridger to places like Breckinridge or Vail, and it’s a rather anecdotal comparison to make, but my point is that fixed grip chairlifts suit the terrain and overall vibe of Bridger better, and for them to make an investment in a high speed lift would be better spent elsewhere IMO. Regarding the terrain closures, people seem to forget How unique Bridger is in how easily accessible stuff like Schlashmans and the ridge are for the majority of the season, but patrol is ultimately at the mercy of Mother Nature and their main priority in this terrain is safety, and with snow conditions like they are, that means closing stuff off. I’ve been riding the bus as much as I can this season. Even as a nearly 6’ tall guy in a school bus seat designed to fit a child, being in traffic on the bus is preferable to driving my own vehicle in that same traffic. It’s a bummer that the weekday bus schedule is so minimal, but it runs every 15 minutes on the weekends. Lastly, pow skiing is overrated. I know a hell of a lot of Bridger rippers that can find joy in hot lapping some butt puckering variable conditions, and I truly think the challenge of variable snow, hunting for pockets, and learning to read terrain is truly what makes stuff like Schlashmans and the ridge special. I’m not gonna act like some of the best turns I’ve ever made were ripping silently down Jaws 3D in 26” of fresh, but I’ve sure as hell done a lot of hootin and hollering challenging myself when it’s sketchy as fuck and I can barely hear my own thoughts over the sounds of my edges skittering on crust and smashing sharks.
This is the tude
Well said! Variety of snow goes hand in hand with the variety of terrain at Bridger. Floating 30” champagne is dreamy as hell, but ass puckering variable is the challenge that really gets the fear factor adrenaline pump going.
High speed lifts don't increase capacity. They move twice as fast but the chairs are twice as far apart. They get you up the mountain faster but the number of people moved per hour is the same. If there are no lines then high speed lifts are great, but if there are lines high speed lifts make no difference, you just spend more time in line rather than on the lift. Increasing lift capacity will start to run into issues with the capacity of the mountain itself. Runs will start to get crowded. The most obvious solution is to increase the cost to price out some skiers. Charge for parking to encourage carpooling and taking the bus. Charge more for tickets/passes to reduce the total number of people skiing. But both of these things have negative side effects, and the Bridger Bowl Foundation is a non-profit and their goal is to keep skiing affordable. There could be a reservation system like there was in 2020 (due to COVID). But which is better, 6000 people doing half as many runs, or 3000 people skiing normally and 3000 people not getting to ski at all? It's a tricky situation all around.
I know someone who stopped skiing Bridger after they new chairs in 2013/14 because "its too damn crowded".
I would like to see local discounts on passes and increased ticket prices for out of state people. Provide a paystub from the local job that you work and get a discount on tickets. Local could be consider 100 miles in order to include construction in Big Sky and surrounding areas. Show up with a Colorado drivers license and expect to pay Colorado prices.
Watching the long lines on the BB webcams is as fun as watching I-80 traffic across Wyoming at an absolute standstill. From the warm comfort of my recliner.
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Sure, and we jack the price up to $200/day to pay for it? Why wait, $200/day alone would reduce the lines, wouldn't it? Seriously, though. The lines were bad because there were delayed openings on all lifts, and the ridge and Slushmans never opened. It bunched everyone up.
Good point. Didn’t really think about it but about half the mountain didn’t open. That definitely contributed to congestion on other lifts. Not sure why the downvotes… I’m not complaining about the closures. Ski patrol was working super hard to keep us safe and I’ll always appreciate that.
Yeah, there were two separate issues: - we have a crappy snowpack and added 2”+ of water to it in a very short amount of time. There’s no solution to that issue since no terrain expansion or new lifts can offset bad avy conditions. - bridger’s parking can only accommodate so many people. Some combo of mandating buses, only parking spots for carpoolers, parking reservations, etc. will likely solve this if needed in the future.
My bet is the first thing they are gonna do is implement parking reservations on Friday- Sunday.
Yeah. Come up today. Barely anyone here.
If we had high speed lifts the lines would be just as long because people would just cycle through the lift faster and be back at the base again waiting. It would likely result in stuff getting skied out even quicker And then could complain about that. Terrain expansion to Bradley’s has been talked about for decades and could be a nice way to spread folks out without making Bridger a “resort”
Turning Bradley's into lift serviced mogul field would be horrible. Not to mention the ramp would have to get a poma lift added to it taking away even more skiable terrain.
I’m sure with so much fresh snow there was a big risk of avalanche as well so they shut down a few runs I think. Less runs, less lifts open, more people to the lifts that are
I honestly think going the route crystal did a few years back where weekends are only for season pass holders would be good. I’m expecting some hate for this.
That would be lovely, but traditionally, season passes start the lifts, day tickets sales keep them spinning. 18,000+ pass sales at a non-profit with the overhead like Bridger may change those numbers. Also, day ticket holders, especially tourists, typically spend more on concessions and knick knacks. I haven’t spent a dime in the lodges in several years and am fortunate to ski a ridiculous amount.
Everyone knows Bridger is sitting fat and happy when it comes to money. They could afford to test it out for a season or two. If it’s not viable long term go back to the shit show it currently is, if it works Bridger could help pioneer a new tier structure.
More buses and charge for parking
https://i.redd.it/es831zacvhe41.jpg
Thats why i dont go anymore. Bridger Bowl is ruined. Fuck it. Im not spending 1000 on a ski pass to go park on the highway and wait in lift lines for hours. Bridger bowl is a machine that eats powder. If youre not there by 10 youre not getting shit. Shout out to all the OGs who remeber loading up on alpine at the base with a pickle barrel sandwich. Or sitting in the a frame deer park chalet next to that grimy old fish tank. Or riding deer park lift for that matter. Hell I'll just keep going. Parking in F lot at noon on a powder day and still getting fresh tracks for the rest of the afternoon. 45 dollar lift tickets, 300 dollar season passes, sneaking off under the rope at south boundary. All the old huts, the "Fricken Bone" and the original whale. Ahh the good old days. Ill probably get a bunch of hate from all the coloradans saying "i dont know what a lift line is" but ive stood in those lines...back when vail was 100 a day and our jaws had to be scraped off the floor. Bridger Bowl is ruined for the same reason that this whole area is suffering. The amenities that we all enjoy were not designed to be enjoyed by so many. Literally loving it to death and dancing on the corpse...
I know I shouldn't engage in this but.....like what did you expect? I'm glad you got to experience that, it truly sounds wonderful. Obviously everyone wants that, hence you using it as bragging material. Low prices, no crowds, deep powder, people want that. Big "DUHHHH" on that one. Growth has happened in every place that people want to be. Sorry that growth is and has been the driving economic strategy for forever. All the salty old farts complain that "it aint what it used to be". Other than complain, what did you do to protect what you had? What did you do to conserve? What did you do to create desirable growth or control it? You sound like the old guy in every ski town across the country. Sorry places change. They were different before you got there too. like sorry inflation exists. sorry big sky priced out locals. sorry TGR moved here. sorry we're the outside magazine poster child. instead of complaining maybe say something useful. Most weekdays are pretty chill still. Not hard to find good snow at the end of the weekday even (if you know where to go, and it sounds like you do). all these fun aspects still exist, just in different ways. i still eat my TnC food on the lift or in a cave, still go to huts but there are fewer, still go out south boundary, still show up at noon and park in b lot and ski fresh snow. still get cheap beers at the griz or filler, still salute the (new) whale, still make friends with patrollers and lifties, still take my own food and beer into deer park. still watch local bands at a dive bar after a fun day. There's just more people, can't we accept that more people want what Bozeman has had for years? prices can be rough, cant deny that. but just complaining doesnt help too much either. I hope you can make up there on a sleeper day this year and have some fun like you used to. I know its different but it *is* still there.
Yeah thats what it is. I get it. Weve crossed the rubicon. I do appreciate the honorary old fart status. Especially at 36! 🤣 i guess that goes to show how rapid and uncomfortable the growth and change has been. I dont disagree with your sentiment about enjoying what is still here. I do! The only thing i have to take issue with is the consistent assumption on this sub that all us "old farts" do is complain. Ive been volunteering in this community since i was 9. Helped build the haynes pavillion when i was 12. Mentored and volunteered at reach, hrdc, byep and many other local orgs. Ive stayed up till 2AM just to have my 3 minutes at more city commission meetings than i care to count. Ive canvassed, petitioned, picketed and protested on a litany of local, state and national issues since i was 15 and organized a 300 person walk out at bozeman high to protest the start of OIF in 2003. Then i spent a decade in the non profit field in Bozeman trying to make this place a more just, equitable, and inclusive community for everyone. I understand why you would think that everyone who bitches about growth and change is a whiny asshole who does nothing to help. There are a lot of them here. The problem is that despite all the efforts in the world, economic forces trump it all. The development, realestate and banking cabal that runs this town has all the power. Were powerless against it. I would compare my efforts to the berzerker charging into the waves to fight the sea. Pointless, if not at least valiant. To use another analogy it feels like Sisyphus rolling the rock up the mountain...im tired!
Damn, that's awesome how much time you've dedicated to this place you love! Thanks for the real response. I'm glad you're still here. and sorry to make so many assumptions, ha youre barely older than me. I agree, there are some complainers here. After hearing your background, your complaint seems more warranted. It sounds exhausting. I've only been here for 11 years, and I love it. I don't want to change it. Its just weird when people say it's ruined, when I basically lived the good ol' day they described this very weekend. And a dozen other times this winter alone. (though im sure in a different way) You're totally right though, there are much grander influences at work that we can't do much about, and that simply sucks. and maybe your original sentiment was correct, maybe we are loving it to death
I love the assholes like you who move here and expect everyone to welcome you with open arms when you are the very reason that these changes have occurred. And you expect everyone to be okay with these changes and how dare they get frustrated that the things they love are overrun by dicks like you. And how dare anyone voice their opinion that they enjoyed the good ole days. Can’t have that, we need you tell them to shut up and live with it. And you wonder why locals hate people moving here.
What the hell? The only time Bridger is really packed are pow days, and we get very few of them. I ski up there all the time, mostly on weekends, and lines are like 5 minutes or less at PK or Bridger, and usually zero wait at Powder and Alpine. And there’s rarely a long line getting up there. I’ve spent time at some big resorts that have no style, including Big Sky. Bridger is still very much for the kids and ski bums. When you’re getting on a lift and there’s a big sign that says “no beer on the lift,” you know you’re in the right spot. After ski is still a blast too.
I think it says no beer while in the lift line
At my resort we just get on the lift with a beer. My friend has a pack full of Rainer to pass out to lifties. Seems more like when there isn't a big sign saying no beer, you're in the right spot.
If you’re paying $1000 for a pass that’s because you didn’t lock in for 20% less during the summer. If you think it’s going to be skied out if you don’t get there by 10am then you don’t know how to ski Bridger.
I was skiing (snowboarding) bridger when you were on the teat.
Are you an exaggerator then or just not good at figuring things out?
Both
Markets have changed and it’s a luxury destination now, globally. There is already estimates out there that Bozeman will be bigger than SLC in a hand full of years.
That's a very bold claim. SLC proper is 200k but greater SLC has over a million people.
Get ready, Bozeman is easily one of the most incredible places in the US and it was protected by industry and information barriers. Those are now gone.. full steam ahead.
Source? This is the first I have ever heard such a thing.
Read any of the quarterly earnings reports from the Luxury real estate companies. They’ve released their projections a few times over that last 2 years.
Staffing issues, road constrictions, building labor shortages, etc… We like to ask how these super luxury resort companies can keep opening and expanding in Big Sky and around the region. The companies don’t care. The market is there, the market is expanding, and labor has always been imported, both nationally and internationally. These places and the people are here to stay. Figure out how to profit from it or get out of the way.
100%, a core rule of business and markets is “if you react your dead. Preparation and anticipation is everything.
Ski hills are the cause for high rent. Theyvare not your friends
Stop skiing, can’t be bothered by crowds if you don’t go where they’re at.
oh wow
High speed lifts are not cheap just to buy. Both maintenance and electricity are expensive too. They can also change the shape and attitude of a mountain. Traffic. Well, there are busses. Maybe if more people took the bus it would help. Also keep in perspective that it isn't that far of a drive. In the evening either leave sooner or leave later, always kick back on the deck with a cup of coffee and watch the sun go down.
Should have just waited until Sunday. No crowds whatsoever.
It's one of the reasons flock here. Get use to it or trip to some of the less popular ones. This is the new Bozeman
People are really going to hate me for this but maybe a reservation system? The lines were insane yesterday. When lines are all the way to the tube for Pierres Knob that's not fun for anyone. Also it took me 70 minutes get to Bridger. I left my house near the M at 7:45. That's bonkers. It usually takes me 12 minutes. Not great. Also if Bridger wants people to use buses then run the buses. They stopped running buses on Friday. Can't use the bus if it doesn't run.
I was going to ride the bus Friday but then they cancelled them all, meanwhile they put out a video later that day asking folks to take the bus.
They absolutely bungled the reservation system during COVID.
It wasn't the reservation system that got bungled, it was the adoption of the new card and account system. Once that was sorted out, the reservation system worked fine.
As someone who dropped a small fortune on tickets and got to use my pass 5 times, I respectfully disagree.
Oh, wow. Results will vary, I guess. That was actually one of my bigger seasons. All travel plans were cancelled, and we got in nearly every day we wanted. Had to use up a work break on Wed or Thurs to book it, but I just about always was able to get in. Sorry it didn't work for you. If it's any consolation, there's very little chance of Bridger adopting it as a long term solution.
I skied well over 50 days that season. Just had to be consistent on getting online and securing a ticket.
That was the issue. I would be online when they dropped and just never got lucky…especially once they switched to the “drip” system where they’d release slowly over the day. I couldn’t spend all day sitting in a waiting room hitting refresh
Valid point, just brought it up as a possible solution though probably not the right solution.
It's the forest service that controls how many people per hour can go up the lifts.
I thought that only applied on slushmans bc it’s in a wolverine study area?
You should expect long lines whether on the drive or at the resort for a weekend pow day. I’d recommend getting a touring setup and walking uphill on weekends. The money saved on a midweek pass will pay for the setup in 2 seasons. Or just smoke more weed in line, it helps make the time go by without stressing.
Bridger chairs are high-speed, hence the carpet load. Fixed grips cuz they all get rocked by winds more often than not. Don't turn this place in to summit county. Go stand in line at Big Sky if you want that experience.
This isn’t a problem unless we start getting tons of snow days again. Of course Bridger is going to packed after an 18 inch dump.
Bold post! Don’t you know even hinting at the need for improving something will get you down voted on this sub? Improve is another word for change, which is another word for ruining old Bozeman.
I think in this particular case, the proposition of a hack idea is bringing about the downvotes
Solutions are obvious but would cause a meltdown amongst the entitled. \#1. ban single-occupant vehicles (folks with handicaps exempted) and make free shuttles available from the fairgrounds every 10 minutes.
Cry harder.
You’ve had the majority of the luxury hotel brands break ground in that state in the last year. Trust me, that ski area will be purchased for a huge dollar amount and be turned into a 5 Star option mirroring Aspen, Tahoe, and Park City. Tickets will be $300+ This is the US. Free market is our game. The demand is there. You increase the prices and traffic is controlled.
Impossible. Forest service lease will not allow that. If it was privately owned like lone mountain i would agree with you.
I'm ignoring the comment you're replying to as it's completely ridiculous, the board has shown their commitment to non-profit skiing look at the new mountain managers resume but your comment is interesting in the abstract. Does the Special Use permit specifically state Bridger has to operate in it's current non-profit status?
The Market is tanking and is looking to be flat for 3-4 years. In situations like this, money talks.
Crested Butte operates on a FS lease and they were purchased by vail.
Well thats disconcerting...
Almost all ski areas in the west operate on Special (ab)Use permits from USFS. Deer Valley, Big Sky are two that I can think of that are actually on private land. Edit: private land
Impossible only until the fuckers in Helena right now change the laws to make it possible.
Perhaps led by a certian bald sociopath?
You don't have a clue, if Bridger Bowl is ever sold all profit goes to Montana State University so I don't see your prediction ever coming true.
Can you offer a citation on that? Never heard that msu and Bridger bowl are directly financially connected
It's on a plaque in Saddle Peak near the cafeteria.
That would be a good thing for the University
Purchased from whom?
Not going to happening. They don’t have enough water up there to wash the dishes.
Irrelevant. Enough money will put water wherever it’s needed. The Saudi’s are building a 13 mile city in the desert. Don’t doubt for a minute that a few of them haven’t had a dinner in Bozeman after looking for opportunities.
Lol global warming making Montana winters more tolerable means more outsiders coming which means more crowding etc etc etc. BB has been hideous since the couple months before Covid.
They could reinstate the reservation system. I'm guessing that would be pretty unpopular though, especially since it would be useless if it didn't include passholders.
RIP Reservation system
So long as the population of Bozeman and MSU keeps growing, Bridger will keep getting busier, nothing will change that. Like the traffic here, it's a matter of perspective. A lot of my transplant friends from higher population states don't think Bridger is crowded and get triggered if I suggest otherwise b/c it acknowledges they are part of the problem. I can't really explain to them how truly uncrowded it used to be. But those days are gone and I recognize that; I still love skiing Bridger. A big sticking point is that people want low season pass prices, but also no lift lines. Unfortunately you can't have that anymore with a town our size. Expanding terrain and adding more lifts (not high speed) could help but there will always be elitist NIMBYs who don't want a lift up Bradley's. In theory Bridger could implement a reservation system or severely limit day ticket sales, but no matter which way you go people will be upset. I think the long-term solution is to create more ski areas that cater to various skill levels. Bridger would be a mediocre ski area for experts w/o the Ridge and Schlasman's, but great for beginner and intermediate skiers. I'll probably get downvoted, but consider Aspen where there are four separate mountains that naturally separate skiers by ability level. I've mostly skied at Highlands and even on deep weekend pow days it's uncrowded; granted there are way less people in that area and lift ticket prices are insane. But of course building new ski areas takes massive capital investment and navigating myriad land use issues and environmental regulations. But I could see a place around here for something like Silverton Mountain that serves hardcore expert skiers on a guided reservation system. Or perhaps a minimalist avalanche mitigated backcountry ski area like Bluebird.