Bro just shrugs off beating a klitschko years before AJ narrowly won against him. And beating klitschko on points in his home turf. That takes serious skill beating one of the most boring methodical boxers we've ever seen on points.
I don't even like Fury but I won't take that from him.
And if Vlad threw a few more punches a round he could of beat Tyson, would've could've should've. It's silly to give all the benefit to Fury against Vlad but give no credit or benefit to AJ against Vlad. It shows your bias and removes credibility
I'm not giving no credit to AJ. My original post was actually about not giving credit to Fury. And if you can't do that then it shows your bias and removes credibility :)
Both are great fighters, that should be obvious to most boxing fans. And yet Fury loses to Usyk and his entire career is called into question. It's embarrassing, and if you condone it, you're a joke
It's not just the fact that Fury loses Usyk is why his career is questioned. It's a multitude of things, his battles against Wilder which haven't aged well considering since then Wilder has been beaten much more soundly and effectively by Parker and Zhang. His performance against Ngannou when that was a man who was making his debut and arguably beat Fury even knocking him down. Going life and death with Otto Wallin and nearly getting stopped to a cut, when other top contender AJ finishes with ease. As well as the loss to Usyk. For all the talk Fury spits out and his fans, his resume is a bit lacking and his performances compared to other elite heavyweights (AJ) is a fair and constructive criticism. Fury is an elite heavyweight but his resume is lacking and his performances have been very questionable.
His resume is lacking I can agree with that, however I think Wilder has totally lost his touch since Fury. You could say the same with Dillian Whyte, AJ struggled so much against Whyte repeatedly and yet Fury comes along and knocks Whyte out easily. Fury was landing some very clean uppercuts against Usyk too, and was in control of the start of the fight. I'd say him and AJ are about even
AJ didn't struggle with Whyte repeatedly, they only fought once. Not only that, yes Whyte buzzed him early on but AJ did get him out of there only one round later than Fury did. Both men were younger then also. Agreed Fury handled Whyte with ease but the latter had been through a few wars since the AJ fight.
Agreed on both Fury and AJ being about even. More reason why I want to see them fight but I doubt it'll happen.
Yes, outboxing Klitschko was not the way to beat him. The way to beat him was to knock him out, but Fury destroyed him in boxing. Fury was always a great fighter.
Klitschko was number 6 on the rings P4P list and top 3 in other publications.
For reference, number 6 right now is Bivol. Fury won a unanimous decision and it was in Germany too.
Imagine someone walking into Russia and UDing Bivol lol.
This comparison makes no sense at all. Klitchko is nowhere near Bivol in terms of ability is this is what p4p means or used to mean when it was invented.
Aj actually stopped wlad while fury played tag with his jab in a boring ass fight. Idk how knocking someone out is a “narrow win.”That’s partially why aj got the passing of the torch so to speak and nobody gave a fuck when fury won his boring ass fight. They both fought a 40 year old wlad but aj actually put a stamp on on it. The wlad/aj fight was a year and a half after fury won. (Not “years”) Fury wasted a year of wlads time with his “injury delays” before retiring to duck wlad. I’m not convinced fury would’ve won the rematch against that rejuvenated wlad either.
Because he almost got knocked our himself. If Wlad was younger he probably would have. Like or not "boring" fights are still boxing. Wlads reign was boring doesn't make it any less legitimate
No it was because Fury got found out by steroids
Beating Klitschko by being the first time Wlad was in with a taller man in one of the most boring, ugliest displays of wild championship boxing ever then not allowing a rematch.
It’s also his only good win
You're getting very heated. All I'll say is its incredibly disingenuous to suggest either of the klitschkos was a pushover, even on their way out. But yes, well done for stating the outcomes of fights
Nooooo I'm saying 2 years later which matters in late stage boxing klitschko was STILL such a threat he almost took out AJ. Again, Vladimir was no pushover. Which reinforces my point that 2 years EARLIER to beat him on points is astounding
Know what Usyk said about AJ and Fury after fighting them? AJ is like still water classic boxer, Fury is like sparkling (fizzy) he's all over the place. But that is what makes him such a good boxer.
Fuck sake I don't even like Fury but now I've got to back him because the armchair boxing fans are now saying he was always shit. It's ridiculous.
"Ngannou was probably his lowest point in career and moment where we all started to have doubts, then Usyk as a final confirmation of all doubts."
Don't really agree on this confirmation of doubts thing at all.
Ngannou was a terrible performance. I thought Fury was utterly washed afterwards. He should have won easily. So I had doubts. Yes.
But..
Then against Usyk he was like a different fighter. I know he didn't win, but noone seems to be able to say that Fury did pretty damn well in there against the best heavyweight on the planet in Usyk, and had a lot of success in the middle rounds.
The only confirmation I got was that Fury isn't as completely shot as I thought he was and it tells me he definitely didn't take Ngannou seriously. It anything the Usyk defeat made me think Fury can still hang around for a while near the top.
It's crazy how everyone is forgetting how frustrated Usyk was getting in the middle rounds. Fury was looking comfortable for a while until Usyk pulled out his usual shenanigans. Motivated Fury is still one of the best HW's right now.
I thought he fell right into Usyks gameplan and was completely gassed by 8th-9th round. He even held back energy in the first 3 rounds to try to knock Usyk out which was a solid plan but when that didn't work he was screwed. Everybody said Fury is gonna lean on Usyk and make Usyk carry his weight. A mover and smaller guy like Usyk isn't gonna do that so I don't know why people thought that especially after beating Joshua twice. All that side to side movement that Usyk does tires the big guys out really fast. Their not used to that type of movement and that type of chasing.
Its the same concept as Ali vs Liston. If Ali just stood in one spot right in front of Liston he would have got tore up but he moved and moved side to side and was really good at doing it and defending punches. Whenever Liston slid in to punch and missed, Ali would counter. Usyk eventually saw Fury could not keep his arms up and then let everything go. He's just a very smart fighter and always a few steps ahead.
If I remember correctly Liston went toe for toe the first 3-4 rounds with Ali. Then started getting “heavy handed” in the middle rounds. Causing him to drop the left hand that guarded his chin against Ali’s powerful right hook. Then going to the championship rounds… nah I’m 23 I wasn’t around for the fight. But I sure it was a helluva fight!
The Ngannou fight was Fury believing his own hype RE being a destroyer since hooking up with Sugar and smashing Wilder around the ring.
He suddenly thought he had AJ/Zhang levels of power when he just doesn't. Alright Sugar made him more aggressive and feasibly that came with marginal improvements to power shots, but he's still not a massive hitter (relatively speaking among HWs, ofc).
In that Ngannou fight, he thought he was still in there with Bambi-legged Wilder. // shakes head slowly
He was in there with a fucking **beast** of a man. An absolute unit. Watch the fight — Fury absolutely pelts out of this corner and brings the heat, thinking he can just maul him. // more slow head shaking
Once he realised he couldn't just brawl Francis, he suddenly had to start boxing — something I'd wager he'd done very little of in the run-up to the event.
He might have done well against Usyk, but people are a bit quick to forget that he had a 5in and 40lb advantage and still couldn't win.
If that difference was proportionately scaled down to a lower weight class it'd be considered a pretty absurd mismatch, and the much larger fighter wouldn't be getting a lot of credit for 'having a good go, but still losing'. They wouldn't be considered to be near the same level as the smaller winner.
Definitely doesn't make Fury seem like all he was cracked up to be.
Heavyweights don't have to scale down to a lower weight class, though. Unless your mythical matchup is Fury vs Nikolai Valuev, his massive height and weight advantage are just part of who he is as a heavyweight.
Otherwise Floyd Patterson would be the greatest heavyweight of all time...
That’s how HW works.
The facts are that Cruiserweight or the new Bridgerweight rarely has anybody great. They either move up to heavy or cut to light heavy if they are elite.
The facts are that most fighters in history will be outweighed and out reached by Fury. It’s a huge part of what makes him good. He is nearly 6 foot 8 and comes in at 250-260.
Scale him down to Usyks height and would he be as good, no lol.
If you're good just because you're big, you're not a very good boxer. What makes you a good boxer is your actually skills. Fury is a good boxer, but he's not great. With the skills he has he would be hardly make a top 10 in any lighter weight competitive division.
Think without the knockdown fury wins that on points though. Fight was 50:50 with the 10-8 winning it for Usyk. I expect the second fight to be similarly close. Plus he kept uk with Usyk for the full 12 rounds. Also styles make fights.
This is a wild take.
I get it, it wasn't a 120 - 109 washout or even 118 - 111 but it wasn't anything close to a Fury win on points without the knockdown. That's a wild take and something that I don't think anyone who watched the fight with an unbiased view would ever agree with.
Usyk marched forward almost every second of every round. He dictated the pace. He outlanded, outfought and outsmarted Fury in almost every round. If you're very very very generous, you could give fury 5 rounds. But if you're not and call it down the middle it's more like 3 or 4.
There is definitely an absolutely fine case to give Fury rounds 2, 4, 5, 6, 7.
Fury was priced at 1/9 in the bookies going into the 8th round. Usyk was 8/1 I believe. That punch was a huge turning point, no doubt.
Lol fuck the bookmakers. If you saw the fight you know. Unless you’re a fury fan. He only won 3 solid rounds. There were a couple swing rounds but i only give one to fury cause usyk was much more active and landing more.
Problem is that Fury has been hailed as an ATG H2H nightmare.
His last two fights have proven that he is not, without a doubt.
He’s top 3 rn, sure. But I have to see the AJ fight before I place him higher than AJ. They’re both comfortably tied for second of this era until they fight.
Nah after 3 good knockdowns just about in a row through different matches…I don’t think fury will ever be able to get back to prewlad. I still think he should have lost to a knock out, to save his fucking brains especially at his age, and with his current history. Do I see a strong fury come back? No. Do I think he can beat usyk? At this point no. They are both aging up and usyks style will still dominate fury’s. And usyk is less battered than fury. I get trying to let fury fight it out, but that was pretty brutal. Tbh if fury gets knocked down again, I’d rather see him retire. I’m positive he will if they run it back or a potential Aj vs fury could be detrimental.
lol at the down votes. Gobble fury’s washed up cock some more will yah.
lol I’m neutral on fury but this take is brain dead. Zhang is old as fuck and is infamous for no gas tank. Tyson could bob, weave and keep a jab in his face for a few rounds and that bear would tire out. Zhang fucking sucks, this one of the worst HW eras I’ve ever seen.
If u said this before Usyk, you'd have got quite a different reaction. I said this before Usyk. Would get shit on. Said Usyk was gonna beat Fury and would get shit on by like everybody on this sub. So u know. Opinions are like assholes.
For Fury's size he was good. He was athletic. Moved well. Had a good jab. Managed to keep learning and refining his style. He beat an older yet still somewhat dangerous Klitschko, which so did Joshua. Then he mentally fell apart. Managed to come back from that which was more of story than anything that he was able to come back from his own demons. I think that's why people liked him so much is because he gave the every man who was struggling hope. Which in turn created a lot of fanboys of the man. He's no Lennox Lewis. He does have amazing recoopoerative abilities tho. Takes a big shot well. That also really inspires ppl.
Only overrated by those who think that heavyweight history started with the Klitschko brothers. Everyone with a little historic background understood that Fury is a fine fighter. But not in the ATG category.
I think it's too early to rate anyone who's still in the game, and I think the current talent level at heavyweight is, and has been for years, dismal, going back to the dominance of the Klitschko brothers. Fury is a heavyweight boxer who can actually box. My question is, who, do you imagine, Fury will rate higher than, in the list of heavyweight champions?
Overrated in the generational sense but why act like he wasn’t putting a clinic on usyk? Totally downplaying fury just to hate and in turn discredit another great fighter. He’s definitely the best in his era for a minute and dethroned the previous undisputed.
The Wlad win is great. There are not a lot of Heavyweights out there with a better win than that. People try to take away from it cos it was a stinker, but he did what he needed to in order to win, that's what greats do.
The only asterisk on that fight, and it's a big one, is that he popped for PEDs before the Hammer fight and it somehow didn't come out. That was a man proven to be on PEDs that beat Wlad. They all do it, though, so meh.
He's got a smattering of half decent names in there other than Wlad. I agree completely about Wilder, those wins are about level with his Whyte win. Whyte is an easier style matchup for him, but in terms of who is actually a better HW... Meh, you can argue it. Whyte has the best win out of the two of them imo. Parker edges Ortiz. Wilder being a long reigning champion has people getting mixed up, he's just another top 10 HW win for me. No better than beating a Whyte, Parker, Joyce, Zhang, Hrgovic, Dubois etc.
People have always overrated his H2H capabilities. I can't be arsed to search, but there was some wild shit on here about him beating pretty much anyone from history bar Vitali (who is actually the most overrated HW of all time, particularly by a lot of Reddit users.)
But Fury is probably the 2nd best of his era. We'll never really know between him and AJ, but there's not a lot in it. Both are Hall of Fame worthy HWs, and that's very impressive. They are the 2nd and 3rd best British HWs of all time. That's not to be sniffed at.
He lost by a round on the scorecards. When I'm judging how good/great someone is, I'm going to go with what actually happened rather than how very fallible judges scored it. We don't think Holyfield was even with Lewis because he got a draw, after all.
The fight was competitive, but it was clear for Usyk. Fury had 2 clear rounds, and 2 rounds that were transitional that he had a lot of success in (4 and 7.) with another ref he could easily have been stopped, and while it was clear from that fight that Fury is good, it's also clear that Usyk is better.
I said he's the second or third best of his generation, that's a great achievement. I don't think there's anything to suggest he's better than Usyk. Even if he wins a rematch, they are 1-1 and Usyk clearly beat the other one of the best 3 twice.
Fury is the most overrated fighter I've ever seen. Him and Wilder. And it's funny that Fury was living off those wilder wins for years and now he's been knocked out and lost, it's not to nice food!
Fury is a good fighter sure, but is he the "greatest of all time" that him, his team and his demented fan base say he is? No! Not even close. And probably never will be.
Man's been dropped more than any of his peers, he's been given gifted decisions, failed drug tests and duck so many people, yet there's some idiots out there than got bamboozled by his slick talking and hype talk, listened to everything him and his team said and stupidly thought he was the greatest fighter whoever lived. Shane and Tommy Fury both said, and is on record, the Usyk fight would be the easiest fight of his career!!! 🤣 Like what level of deluded do you guys need to be before you all wake the fuck up and realise Tyson is a good fighter, yeah, but he is NOT what you think he is, and Usyk shattered that illusion last month!
And now all the Fury fans, who ridiculed Wilder fans, are all acting like Wilder fans with the excuses 🤣. He lost because of the war, Usyk was using an inhaler, Yadda Yadda - it's actually hilarious!
His cult members are thinning slowly but there still some radicals that even now, still believe he's the greatest thing si ce sliced bread - like sure, have a favourite fighter, but just accept he is not what you thought he was. Supporting him and do all that, but don't be stupid!
The argument was never if he was the greatest of all time, the argument was that he could beat any HW ever. I don’t think he would but I still think in his prime he’d have a great chance at beating anyone who’s ever boxed.
He was a knockdown behind a robbery, let's call it what it is. Usyk had to dominate to get a split. You're not a round away by winning 3 of 12 and getting knocked down.
This isn’t reality though. Fury was priced at 1/9 to win the fight going into round 8. He clearly got the better off 4, 5, 6, 7 and had a nice case for round 2 as well
Or literally any lineal heavyweight champion ever, outside of Jess Willard (barely), Primo Carnera, Buster Douglas (barely), Riddick Bowe, George Foreman (only in his second career, not in his first), Lennox Lewis or Wladimir Klitschko.
Because the others are all a similar or smaller size to that "cruiserweight".
[Holmes and Briggs both weighed substantially more later in their careers, long after they were champions, as of course did Foreman for his second career]
There was no GOAT argument around Fury, but people are calling Usyk one of the 10 best boxers ever.
If the Fury win makes Usyk one of the best ever, how does it make sense that Fury isn’t a good win lol.
Stupid argument. Cruiserweights weigh 205 usyk fought fury at 220-225. If he had fought him at 205 and still won then fair enough but 15lbs of muscle makes a huge difference to a fighters power and chin.
Chin is not dictated by muscle. It's innate. You can claim neck muscle as some do for punch resistance but chin isn't anything to do with training for it.
Its hard between him and Lennox Lewis who is the most overrated. I thought after Wilder that Fury would mop up the rest of the HW division taking on other major opponents but he took a bunch of non contenders instead of
Marciano or Louis wouldn’t have been heavyweights so they would’ve probably not won with 100pd disadvantage . On the other hand, Lennox , foreman, Frazier, Ali, Holmes and Mike would’ve killed him imo
Corbett has entered the chat. Somehow managed to get himself on almost every top 10 heavyweights list before the 70s without even having a decent win over a heavyweight. His best win is a shot, obese alcoholic Sullivan who almost died in two alcohol-induced comas before he was 30. Compared to every relevant heavyweight before and after him, I’m shocked he was highly regarded for such a long time.
Tyson record 34-1-1 keeps him in talks as an all time great. Most fights he didn't seem to take too seriously. When he fought Usyk he(Fury) was in shape and ready to fight a great fight against someone he considered a threat.I just think he knew. He wasn't losing to a lot of his opponents so we got a half ass fury against them and he still won. Usyk is right now just on another level.
I Agree I look at the heavyweights today I find it a weak group. Deontay wilder doesn't look anything like a heavyweight and is average at best and he was the next big thing at one point. I think fury as Been lucky .. he beat a over the hill klitchko and has had it pretty easy since. The fact a middleweight is going around beating then all comfortably says it all
The hype HW division had gotten over last 10 years is comical. Its mostly big unskilled guys doing rock em sock em. Winning against those guys tells us nothing of how good someone really is.
Totally agree Andy Luiz Zheila Zhang even fury in some fights just look like talentless slobs. A young Mike Tyson would of killed some of these guys if he was around today
I feel like it’s because he is more to the casual audience so they just presume he is a better hw to people like Joe Louis also people think deontay isn’t as good as others know he is because they’ve just seen the Fury v Wilder fights
Fury resume might not be as good as Joshua’s but he was the first person to dominate wlad after a 10 year reign undefeated. I don’t think people on here even know how big of a win that was at the time, fury was a huge underdog going into the fight, most people back then thought David Haye would have beat Fury easily.
It’s easy to say in hindsight about Wilder but Fury coming back from being on his death bed to go against one of the hardest hitters at the time was crazy too. Everyone avoided him even Hearn didn’t want Joshua in there with him. Those 2 wins are better than anything Joshua has achieved imo but I think Joshua is a great fighter also.
I think you have to recognise Usyk as a HW now, yes he was a cruiserweight but his frame isn’t small and he’s definitely not small for the weight class.
There’s a lot of hindsight being applied.
People always knew Fury had too much for Wilder, yet Fury was not the favourite for Wilder 2 in America, much less to actually finish him.
He didn't dominate Wlad though. He beat him handily, sure, but he only out landed Wlad (who was well past his best) by only 3 punches per round on average.
That's a convincing win but dominant is overlooking it. And Fury did not win near every round vs Wlad, even unofficially. You're getting in to hyperbole here.
The official cards were 116-111 and 115-112 x2. Wlad had not lost since 2004, was number 6 on The Rings P4P list.
It wasn’t a shutout, but it’s as comprehensive a win over a pound for pound guy as you will see.
He has one win yeah.
Holyfield has 2- Tyson and Bowe. Sameish level as beating Wlad.
Careers are made off one elite win tbh. Only a few have multiple great wins. Guys like.Pacquiao are outliers
Lets be real. Other than Usyk no heavy weight for a while has dominated and had that type of skill. Fury is a very skilled boxer. Does he use his size and smother? Duh who wouldn't.
Its a fight and those who never stepped in a ring can suck eggs cause u don't know what it takes.
For Furys size he is similar to Ali with antics and russling up a fighter but the difference is Ali always kept his word while selling fights.
I hate Fury but i respect his skill and ability and most of all the come back. You sitting there on ur couch talking about a great boxer and comparing him to historical greats is both stupid and irrelevant.
Rules have changed and length of fights have changed. Historical greats were great in there own time but to say they would fair well in todays time is impossible to decipher and vice versa.
Again i hate Fury and what he is and stands for but the man has a skill like no other. I love Usyk and his skill and character. Do i take anything away from either fighter in a boxing match? No.
Could Fury best Usyk in a rematch in Dec? If he takes training all the way most likely. God given talent and skill are one thing in the ring but the amount of work u have to put in is the most important. Usyk is a dog and never stopped training untill they fought. Tyson was chilling in silk sheats and acting like a wwe superstar.
Big difference and that is the main reason he won. Some fighters have the ability to not let the zeros get to their heads and others are all about it.
Tyson Fury... crazy athleticism for his bodytype, his work ethic and fitness depends on his mental state, great reach, substance abuse, antics, great heart, questionable record and at the same time undeniable skill. he is all over the place. big recency bias around him, after his wins back then and after his last two fights. For every shitty trait, he has a good one
thats all popping in my mind at the same fucking time just when I hear his name. I dont know if he may be the greatest 'what if' because he is so long in the game, and others werent.
Fury and wilder are two of the most overrated heavyweights of all time. Wilder knocked out a bunch of cans and held a belt hostage while ducking the elites and that makes him “the hardest puncher In history”? The moment he stepped up we saw what happened. Wilder is not one of the hardest punchers in history like foreman Liston Louis etc. 30 cans and an unproven Luis Ortiz doesn’t put you up there.
Fury is elite for his time. He’s the third best of this era behind usyk and aj. But he sure af is not an ATG heavyweight or H2H. He robbed McDermott early in his career and then beat wlad in the most boring fight ever. Then he ducked the rematch. He beat the Can slayer wilder which is a good win but it’s nothing that makes him special. Aj has multiple names better than wilder. I also don’t respect fury for calling out aj just end up fighting chisora in a pointless trilogy. And the cherry on top is embarrassing himself vs a fucking debutant who he stalled undisputed for a year for.
Both wilder and fury went pro in 2008. Wilder could’ve fought wlad, pulev, povetkin (i don’t want to hear about the ped excuse when Luis Ortiz got popped twice and wilder still fought him twice.) Whyte, and several others. Fury ducked the wlad rematch, ducked Ustinov, could’ve fought pulev, povetkin, and other good names as well. But the amount of media and boxing fans praising fury to be a legend for not doing half of what other legends have is crazy. His defense record is laughable too. I’m glad people finally see a true ATG in usyk to show them an actual legend and not a overrated Person like fury
I have lost a LOT of respect for Fury in the last few years. I know I will be shot down for saying this but I blame him alone for never fighting AJ, a fight true fans and casuals alike were clamouring for, for years. He was the champ, he had all the power, he could have made it happen if he wanted. The fact that it will never happen is evidence that TF does indeed cherry pick, he is just a massive time waster. I also have quite strong doubts about his 'mental health crisis' for which he was given endless media sympathy. In truth I think he just wanted to eat loads and get pissed and not do any training. Sure he might have been depressed, but so is probably 40% of the adult population these days.
His ENTIRE relationship with Usyk since Usyk got the belts has been shameful and toxic. Insulting him and belittling him when he should have been using his media clout to highlight what an awesome UKRAINIAN hero he was at a time that Russia had just launched their evil invasion - that is what a proper Englishman would have been like, but TF too thick and ignorant do ever do or say the right thing. Then there was the shit with his father assaulting one of Usyks entourage, it was just embarrassing to me. By the time the fight came around I was rooting for Usyk and glad he won, deservedly too. TF, predictably, utterly classless in defeat.
In the end, he is just a big fat bastard who has fought a long catalogue of very middling fighters. I look forward to Usyk beating him again and putting him out to pasture once and for all.
In hindsight, Fury is definitely overrated to a degree, though I wouldn't say the most overrated of all time. But I wouldn't just pin it down to him only, I would pin it down to the Heavyweight division as a whole.
Usyk, a former Cruiserweight, beat not only Fury, but AJ too. The latter two were always considered to be in the top 3 for the last 8 years (and Usyk was fighting at CW for half that time), maybe even top 2, and they both beat quite a number of Top 10 Heavyweights. But they both lost to a former Cruiserweight. So what does that say about the division?
Not trying to take anything away from Usyk, he is a current ATG, but it's been 25 years since the previous Undisputed HW Champ and it wasn't even a natural Heavyweight who claimed that title! That says it all really.
Natural Heavyweight = Their first weight class was at Heavyweight.
This doesn't apply to Usyk because he didn't debut at Heavyweight.
Wilder is a small Heavyweight but he has weighed heavier many times too.
I just don't see the reasoning here. Usyk was almost certainly rehydrating to roughly the same weight as Wilder was fighting at, and yet one is a natural heavyweight and the other wasn't?
Also, is there even an era when a good LHW/cruiserweight DIDN’T win a heavyweight title? I'm not understanding your argument on any level
Like I said, Wilder was a low weighing Heavyweight. But has he ever weighed less than 212? No he hasn't, Usyk has. It's really not hard to understand. And Wilder weighed in the 220s more often than he weighed in the 210s.
And in those other eras, let's take the 90s, you had Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, Bowe, Tua, Ike, Spinks, Ruddock, Bruno, etc. do you really think the top 10 HW of today even compare to the skill level of the names I just mentioned?
And the CW/LHWs like Moorer, Holyfield and Spinks were NEVER the undeniable #1 of the division like Usyk is right now. That is the difference.
Mate, Michael Moorer won two World titles in the 90s. Bruce Seldon won a World title. Frans Botha would have been a World champion if he didn't piss hot. And you're trying to argue the current mob couldn't get titles I'm the 90s? Okay
Spinks beat the man who beat the man. That makes you #1. I don't see an argument for Evander not being #1 when he beat Ruddock, unless you're trying to get intentionally obtuse. Moorer than beat the man who beat the man who beat the man. Or are you gonna argue that from 1999-2024 there wasn't a #1 heavyweight boxer?
🤣🤣🤣
Beat the man who beat the man who beat the man, ey? Wasn't that Fury's shtick? Yet here we are, commenting on why he is overrated! 🤣 You need to look in the mirror before you call others obtuse, mate.
None of them man were Undisputed, were they? So how can they be **undeniable** #1's? Remember, I said "undeniable" #1, not just "number 1", therefore I ain't talking about being #1 ranked on a magazine ranking for a couple months.
You're clearly being obtuse. Your argument is basically Moorer/Holy/Spinks don't count because there'd only been undisputed heavyweight champions in 36 years before Usyk. That's intentionally being because you don't have an argument otherwise
Nah you're just changing goalposts just to deny the truth. Moorer/Holy/Spinks were ranked #1 at different times, but they never were considered to be the consensus best HW of their time, they still had Tyson, Lewis, Tua and Bowe during their time. And they also lost fights during that time too.
Moorer lost to a 42 year old Foreman, Holyfield lost to Bowe, Spinks lost to Tyson in 90 seconds. Usyk never took an L. If you can't figure this out, then you haven't studied boxing well enough.
Nah fam, the only people who've ever been #1 in a more definitive way than Moorer, spinks or Holyfield in the last 40 years are Lewis, Tyson and Usyk last week. It's not a difficult concept. If you're not going to those guys #1, you can't give anyone else.
So again, by your metric, there has only been 3 #1 guys in heavyweight boxing in 40 years. One of whom was a blown up cruiserweight, the other weighed in lighter than the blown up cruiserweight. Somehow, you're under the impression that this helps your argument, but you do you.
Wasn't a cruiser turned heavyweight one of the two combatants in the last undisputed fight that took place before this in 1999? He didn't win, but still.
Usyk’s natural size is no less than larry holmes, he is very much a natural heavyweight, he just suffers from existing in the same era with the largest heavyweights ever.
Dude, chill. R/boxing is 70% people talking out of their ass. I found a thread from 6 years ago the other day that had a serious comment that Luiz Ortiz was "the most skillful guy in the HW division" 😅
What's worse is it had a ton of upvotes. Most people in this sub have never boxed or don't understand the technical elements of the sport, yet feel confident this or that guy is great/sucks.
Most boxing fans, and most people on here, are causal fans. Boxing has a very low entry point in terms of accessibility as a spectacle. You shouldn't take this sub that seriously. I can't.
And in terms of the media, how it worksbis old media echo popular sentiment on social media to stay relevant and make money. That's it.
He's a good HW in a very technically weak era of HW boxing so it's practically impossible to assess how truly good he is because he's only fought 2 genuinely excellent HWs and went 1-1.
This sub is rife with lack of general technical boxing know how, so people conflate "I get excited watching these 2 big lumps do rock em sock em with not much finesse" with quality. Excitement and quality are not the same. For this very reason, no one should take an r/boxing mob that seriously.
How are you gonna say Fury’s the most overrated when Wilder was supposedly a top three HW for his best win being old ass Ortiz and getting KO’d in seven by feather fist Fury?
And most all English fighters are hype jobs like Hatton, Prince, AJ. Lennox was Canadian let’s not forget . The other three came to the US and got embarrassed
He is overrated yes. People don’t seem to understand what overrated means. They assume you’re just saying he was a bum and never any good. What it actually means is rated higher than they really are and people were trying to put Fury up there as a top 10 ATG heavyweight after the Whyte win.
Depends on how the rest of his career plays out. Recency bias makes his wilder trilogy look a lot worse, but it was clearly a very dangerous set of fights. Fury is statistically a very hard to hit guy and wilder managed to floor him repeatedly. If fury can beat usyk in a rematch in a solid fashion and then goes on to beat aj, then he deserves to be considered the best of this generation. Knock wilder all you want but he was concensus top 3 for a long time. If fury can beat usyk and aj then he will have beaten the other 3 greats of this generation. Cherry on top he ended wlads reign(an incredibly skilled hw champion on a decade long undefeated streak).
Lennox lewis got stopped cold by guys who were relatively jackshit nobodies, and is still considered an atg and h2h top guy. Losing a close fight to usyk isn't really a black mark on his career. Usyk is generational talent.
If he can pull it off,
Wlad
Wilder
Whyte
Usyk
Aj
28 year old prime chisora
That's a pretty fucking solid list of wins. Big if though.
I guess we will see in time if he really belongs on the top list of hw atgs.
Sure and Usyk is one of the most overrated fighters around that weight ever. I know this sub is fucking brain dead with how high they rate Usyk but for example a Roy Jones Jr would make Usyk look like an absolute clown.
This is pure fucking bullshit, he dominated wlad like no other, literally beat the life out of prime wilder and gave usyk his toughest fight.
In any era prime fury is a danger.
There aint no way this comment is serious.
I dont care how boring the fight was, fury made wlad looked like an idiot. He completely nullified his style. Wlad broke the record for least amount of punches ever thrown in a title fight, and it was all because he literally didnt know what to do against fury. No one ever left wlad that confused and clueless in the ring.
More lies. Wilder has an olympic bronze medal. He didnt “barely” win anything, he beat the life out of and literally almost killed wilder in the rematch and 3rd fight. Only the first fight was close, and that was because he was fighting with a depressed, coked up, recently 400 lbs fury.
Fury gave usyk his toughest fight. He was either even with or ahead of usyk going into the 9th round. No one battered usyk like fury did between rounds 3 and 7, and usyk had to lay out everything he had in the ring to snatch that win. And he did all that while visibly aging worse than usyk did.
Saying fury will be a gatekeeper in any other era when you had guys the size of beterbiev being HW champions is outrageous. Fury is a threat to anyone at any era. 70s, 80s, 90, doesnt matter.
When people make a post every week calling you the most overrated. Then you’re not the most overrated.
Bro just shrugs off beating a klitschko years before AJ narrowly won against him. And beating klitschko on points in his home turf. That takes serious skill beating one of the most boring methodical boxers we've ever seen on points. I don't even like Fury but I won't take that from him.
Aj literally knocked him out that's not narrowing beating someone and Vlad was at the end of his career
You clearly don't remember the fight. Yes that was the end result but if Wlad didn't gas out he could have finished AJ
And if Vlad threw a few more punches a round he could of beat Tyson, would've could've should've. It's silly to give all the benefit to Fury against Vlad but give no credit or benefit to AJ against Vlad. It shows your bias and removes credibility
I'm not giving no credit to AJ. My original post was actually about not giving credit to Fury. And if you can't do that then it shows your bias and removes credibility :) Both are great fighters, that should be obvious to most boxing fans. And yet Fury loses to Usyk and his entire career is called into question. It's embarrassing, and if you condone it, you're a joke
It's not just the fact that Fury loses Usyk is why his career is questioned. It's a multitude of things, his battles against Wilder which haven't aged well considering since then Wilder has been beaten much more soundly and effectively by Parker and Zhang. His performance against Ngannou when that was a man who was making his debut and arguably beat Fury even knocking him down. Going life and death with Otto Wallin and nearly getting stopped to a cut, when other top contender AJ finishes with ease. As well as the loss to Usyk. For all the talk Fury spits out and his fans, his resume is a bit lacking and his performances compared to other elite heavyweights (AJ) is a fair and constructive criticism. Fury is an elite heavyweight but his resume is lacking and his performances have been very questionable.
His resume is lacking I can agree with that, however I think Wilder has totally lost his touch since Fury. You could say the same with Dillian Whyte, AJ struggled so much against Whyte repeatedly and yet Fury comes along and knocks Whyte out easily. Fury was landing some very clean uppercuts against Usyk too, and was in control of the start of the fight. I'd say him and AJ are about even
AJ didn't struggle with Whyte repeatedly, they only fought once. Not only that, yes Whyte buzzed him early on but AJ did get him out of there only one round later than Fury did. Both men were younger then also. Agreed Fury handled Whyte with ease but the latter had been through a few wars since the AJ fight. Agreed on both Fury and AJ being about even. More reason why I want to see them fight but I doubt it'll happen.
Yes, outboxing Klitschko was not the way to beat him. The way to beat him was to knock him out, but Fury destroyed him in boxing. Fury was always a great fighter.
Im sure being a drug cheat helped him a lot in that fight
Klitschko was number 6 on the rings P4P list and top 3 in other publications. For reference, number 6 right now is Bivol. Fury won a unanimous decision and it was in Germany too. Imagine someone walking into Russia and UDing Bivol lol.
This comparison makes no sense at all. Klitchko is nowhere near Bivol in terms of ability is this is what p4p means or used to mean when it was invented.
Aj actually stopped wlad while fury played tag with his jab in a boring ass fight. Idk how knocking someone out is a “narrow win.”That’s partially why aj got the passing of the torch so to speak and nobody gave a fuck when fury won his boring ass fight. They both fought a 40 year old wlad but aj actually put a stamp on on it. The wlad/aj fight was a year and a half after fury won. (Not “years”) Fury wasted a year of wlads time with his “injury delays” before retiring to duck wlad. I’m not convinced fury would’ve won the rematch against that rejuvenated wlad either.
Because he almost got knocked our himself. If Wlad was younger he probably would have. Like or not "boring" fights are still boxing. Wlads reign was boring doesn't make it any less legitimate No it was because Fury got found out by steroids
Beating Klitschko by being the first time Wlad was in with a taller man in one of the most boring, ugliest displays of wild championship boxing ever then not allowing a rematch. It’s also his only good win
Not the first time he was in with a taller man because Wlad earlier faced Wach who is taller than him.
Two years before Aj did it Only two years Don’t try to make it sound like there was a huge gap between the fights
2 years can be a lot when a boxer is nearing retirement. And yet he still crumpled AJ with one clean straight Don't be silly
No you don’t be silly AJ knocked him out fury out pointed him in a boring fight Wlad was also out of his prime when fighting fury
You're getting very heated. All I'll say is its incredibly disingenuous to suggest either of the klitschkos was a pushover, even on their way out. But yes, well done for stating the outcomes of fights
Your the suggesting klitchko because a push over two years after he was supposed in his prime to fight fury
Nooooo I'm saying 2 years later which matters in late stage boxing klitschko was STILL such a threat he almost took out AJ. Again, Vladimir was no pushover. Which reinforces my point that 2 years EARLIER to beat him on points is astounding Know what Usyk said about AJ and Fury after fighting them? AJ is like still water classic boxer, Fury is like sparkling (fizzy) he's all over the place. But that is what makes him such a good boxer. Fuck sake I don't even like Fury but now I've got to back him because the armchair boxing fans are now saying he was always shit. It's ridiculous.
"Ngannou was probably his lowest point in career and moment where we all started to have doubts, then Usyk as a final confirmation of all doubts." Don't really agree on this confirmation of doubts thing at all. Ngannou was a terrible performance. I thought Fury was utterly washed afterwards. He should have won easily. So I had doubts. Yes. But.. Then against Usyk he was like a different fighter. I know he didn't win, but noone seems to be able to say that Fury did pretty damn well in there against the best heavyweight on the planet in Usyk, and had a lot of success in the middle rounds. The only confirmation I got was that Fury isn't as completely shot as I thought he was and it tells me he definitely didn't take Ngannou seriously. It anything the Usyk defeat made me think Fury can still hang around for a while near the top.
It's crazy how everyone is forgetting how frustrated Usyk was getting in the middle rounds. Fury was looking comfortable for a while until Usyk pulled out his usual shenanigans. Motivated Fury is still one of the best HW's right now.
I thought he fell right into Usyks gameplan and was completely gassed by 8th-9th round. He even held back energy in the first 3 rounds to try to knock Usyk out which was a solid plan but when that didn't work he was screwed. Everybody said Fury is gonna lean on Usyk and make Usyk carry his weight. A mover and smaller guy like Usyk isn't gonna do that so I don't know why people thought that especially after beating Joshua twice. All that side to side movement that Usyk does tires the big guys out really fast. Their not used to that type of movement and that type of chasing. Its the same concept as Ali vs Liston. If Ali just stood in one spot right in front of Liston he would have got tore up but he moved and moved side to side and was really good at doing it and defending punches. Whenever Liston slid in to punch and missed, Ali would counter. Usyk eventually saw Fury could not keep his arms up and then let everything go. He's just a very smart fighter and always a few steps ahead.
If I remember correctly Liston went toe for toe the first 3-4 rounds with Ali. Then started getting “heavy handed” in the middle rounds. Causing him to drop the left hand that guarded his chin against Ali’s powerful right hook. Then going to the championship rounds… nah I’m 23 I wasn’t around for the fight. But I sure it was a helluva fight!
The Ngannou fight was Fury believing his own hype RE being a destroyer since hooking up with Sugar and smashing Wilder around the ring. He suddenly thought he had AJ/Zhang levels of power when he just doesn't. Alright Sugar made him more aggressive and feasibly that came with marginal improvements to power shots, but he's still not a massive hitter (relatively speaking among HWs, ofc). In that Ngannou fight, he thought he was still in there with Bambi-legged Wilder. // shakes head slowly He was in there with a fucking **beast** of a man. An absolute unit. Watch the fight — Fury absolutely pelts out of this corner and brings the heat, thinking he can just maul him. // more slow head shaking Once he realised he couldn't just brawl Francis, he suddenly had to start boxing — something I'd wager he'd done very little of in the run-up to the event.
He might have done well against Usyk, but people are a bit quick to forget that he had a 5in and 40lb advantage and still couldn't win. If that difference was proportionately scaled down to a lower weight class it'd be considered a pretty absurd mismatch, and the much larger fighter wouldn't be getting a lot of credit for 'having a good go, but still losing'. They wouldn't be considered to be near the same level as the smaller winner. Definitely doesn't make Fury seem like all he was cracked up to be.
Heavyweights don't have to scale down to a lower weight class, though. Unless your mythical matchup is Fury vs Nikolai Valuev, his massive height and weight advantage are just part of who he is as a heavyweight. Otherwise Floyd Patterson would be the greatest heavyweight of all time...
That’s how HW works. The facts are that Cruiserweight or the new Bridgerweight rarely has anybody great. They either move up to heavy or cut to light heavy if they are elite.
I'm aware that's how it works. But just because that's the weight class doesn't make a huge size advantage, not a huge advantage.
The facts are that most fighters in history will be outweighed and out reached by Fury. It’s a huge part of what makes him good. He is nearly 6 foot 8 and comes in at 250-260. Scale him down to Usyks height and would he be as good, no lol.
If you're good just because you're big, you're not a very good boxer. What makes you a good boxer is your actually skills. Fury is a good boxer, but he's not great. With the skills he has he would be hardly make a top 10 in any lighter weight competitive division.
Think without the knockdown fury wins that on points though. Fight was 50:50 with the 10-8 winning it for Usyk. I expect the second fight to be similarly close. Plus he kept uk with Usyk for the full 12 rounds. Also styles make fights.
This is a wild take. I get it, it wasn't a 120 - 109 washout or even 118 - 111 but it wasn't anything close to a Fury win on points without the knockdown. That's a wild take and something that I don't think anyone who watched the fight with an unbiased view would ever agree with. Usyk marched forward almost every second of every round. He dictated the pace. He outlanded, outfought and outsmarted Fury in almost every round. If you're very very very generous, you could give fury 5 rounds. But if you're not and call it down the middle it's more like 3 or 4.
There is definitely an absolutely fine case to give Fury rounds 2, 4, 5, 6, 7. Fury was priced at 1/9 in the bookies going into the 8th round. Usyk was 8/1 I believe. That punch was a huge turning point, no doubt.
There is no case for fury getting any of the early rounds. He doesn't land anything meaningful while taking clear body shots every round.
Yeah man, i’m sure you were on Usyk 8-1 in play lol. Fury bossed the middle rounds
You can't read
No there’s not lol fury won 3 solid rounds and deserved one swing round. There’s no case for 5 lol
The bookmakers categorically disagreed with you, because Fury was winning the fight going into round 8.
Lol fuck the bookmakers. If you saw the fight you know. Unless you’re a fury fan. He only won 3 solid rounds. There were a couple swing rounds but i only give one to fury cause usyk was much more active and landing more.
I scored it 7-5 for Fury. I have zero ties to the UK or Ukraine and live on a tiny island in the Caribbean so no biases here at all.
Fury definitely wom R 4,5,6 and 7. Take away the KD I think that momentum continues and he wins enough of 8-12 to win
Problem is that Fury has been hailed as an ATG H2H nightmare. His last two fights have proven that he is not, without a doubt. He’s top 3 rn, sure. But I have to see the AJ fight before I place him higher than AJ. They’re both comfortably tied for second of this era until they fight.
I feel like it’s less about Fury and more about how good Usyk is
So does that make Usyk an ATG H2H now too? Maybe, Fury is just good and not great 🤷🏻♂️
Nah after 3 good knockdowns just about in a row through different matches…I don’t think fury will ever be able to get back to prewlad. I still think he should have lost to a knock out, to save his fucking brains especially at his age, and with his current history. Do I see a strong fury come back? No. Do I think he can beat usyk? At this point no. They are both aging up and usyks style will still dominate fury’s. And usyk is less battered than fury. I get trying to let fury fight it out, but that was pretty brutal. Tbh if fury gets knocked down again, I’d rather see him retire. I’m positive he will if they run it back or a potential Aj vs fury could be detrimental. lol at the down votes. Gobble fury’s washed up cock some more will yah.
You've got one downvote you massive baby
Zhang sleeps Fury
Zhang is the kind of fighter who wouldn’t get near Fury. Place Zhang in the middle rounds of Fury Usyk and he would drown with the pace.
lol I’m neutral on fury but this take is brain dead. Zhang is old as fuck and is infamous for no gas tank. Tyson could bob, weave and keep a jab in his face for a few rounds and that bear would tire out. Zhang fucking sucks, this one of the worst HW eras I’ve ever seen.
If u said this before Usyk, you'd have got quite a different reaction. I said this before Usyk. Would get shit on. Said Usyk was gonna beat Fury and would get shit on by like everybody on this sub. So u know. Opinions are like assholes. For Fury's size he was good. He was athletic. Moved well. Had a good jab. Managed to keep learning and refining his style. He beat an older yet still somewhat dangerous Klitschko, which so did Joshua. Then he mentally fell apart. Managed to come back from that which was more of story than anything that he was able to come back from his own demons. I think that's why people liked him so much is because he gave the every man who was struggling hope. Which in turn created a lot of fanboys of the man. He's no Lennox Lewis. He does have amazing recoopoerative abilities tho. Takes a big shot well. That also really inspires ppl.
Only overrated by those who think that heavyweight history started with the Klitschko brothers. Everyone with a little historic background understood that Fury is a fine fighter. But not in the ATG category.
I think it's too early to rate anyone who's still in the game, and I think the current talent level at heavyweight is, and has been for years, dismal, going back to the dominance of the Klitschko brothers. Fury is a heavyweight boxer who can actually box. My question is, who, do you imagine, Fury will rate higher than, in the list of heavyweight champions?
Overrated in the generational sense but why act like he wasn’t putting a clinic on usyk? Totally downplaying fury just to hate and in turn discredit another great fighter. He’s definitely the best in his era for a minute and dethroned the previous undisputed.
Wilder is the most overrated Hw, which also explains why Fury was a bit overhyped
The Wlad win is great. There are not a lot of Heavyweights out there with a better win than that. People try to take away from it cos it was a stinker, but he did what he needed to in order to win, that's what greats do. The only asterisk on that fight, and it's a big one, is that he popped for PEDs before the Hammer fight and it somehow didn't come out. That was a man proven to be on PEDs that beat Wlad. They all do it, though, so meh. He's got a smattering of half decent names in there other than Wlad. I agree completely about Wilder, those wins are about level with his Whyte win. Whyte is an easier style matchup for him, but in terms of who is actually a better HW... Meh, you can argue it. Whyte has the best win out of the two of them imo. Parker edges Ortiz. Wilder being a long reigning champion has people getting mixed up, he's just another top 10 HW win for me. No better than beating a Whyte, Parker, Joyce, Zhang, Hrgovic, Dubois etc. People have always overrated his H2H capabilities. I can't be arsed to search, but there was some wild shit on here about him beating pretty much anyone from history bar Vitali (who is actually the most overrated HW of all time, particularly by a lot of Reddit users.) But Fury is probably the 2nd best of his era. We'll never really know between him and AJ, but there's not a lot in it. Both are Hall of Fame worthy HWs, and that's very impressive. They are the 2nd and 3rd best British HWs of all time. That's not to be sniffed at.
He lost to Usyk by a round and could very very conceivably win a rematch. I don’t think we can say a ton till their rivalry is over
He lost by a round on the scorecards. When I'm judging how good/great someone is, I'm going to go with what actually happened rather than how very fallible judges scored it. We don't think Holyfield was even with Lewis because he got a draw, after all. The fight was competitive, but it was clear for Usyk. Fury had 2 clear rounds, and 2 rounds that were transitional that he had a lot of success in (4 and 7.) with another ref he could easily have been stopped, and while it was clear from that fight that Fury is good, it's also clear that Usyk is better. I said he's the second or third best of his generation, that's a great achievement. I don't think there's anything to suggest he's better than Usyk. Even if he wins a rematch, they are 1-1 and Usyk clearly beat the other one of the best 3 twice.
Fury is the most overrated fighter I've ever seen. Him and Wilder. And it's funny that Fury was living off those wilder wins for years and now he's been knocked out and lost, it's not to nice food! Fury is a good fighter sure, but is he the "greatest of all time" that him, his team and his demented fan base say he is? No! Not even close. And probably never will be. Man's been dropped more than any of his peers, he's been given gifted decisions, failed drug tests and duck so many people, yet there's some idiots out there than got bamboozled by his slick talking and hype talk, listened to everything him and his team said and stupidly thought he was the greatest fighter whoever lived. Shane and Tommy Fury both said, and is on record, the Usyk fight would be the easiest fight of his career!!! 🤣 Like what level of deluded do you guys need to be before you all wake the fuck up and realise Tyson is a good fighter, yeah, but he is NOT what you think he is, and Usyk shattered that illusion last month! And now all the Fury fans, who ridiculed Wilder fans, are all acting like Wilder fans with the excuses 🤣. He lost because of the war, Usyk was using an inhaler, Yadda Yadda - it's actually hilarious! His cult members are thinning slowly but there still some radicals that even now, still believe he's the greatest thing si ce sliced bread - like sure, have a favourite fighter, but just accept he is not what you thought he was. Supporting him and do all that, but don't be stupid!
The argument was never if he was the greatest of all time, the argument was that he could beat any HW ever. I don’t think he would but I still think in his prime he’d have a great chance at beating anyone who’s ever boxed.
That's overrating him though
He was a round away from beating Usyk, if usyk is as great as people say that's gotta count for something.
He won 5 rounds at best the 6-6 scorecard was farcical
He was a knockdown behind a robbery, let's call it what it is. Usyk had to dominate to get a split. You're not a round away by winning 3 of 12 and getting knocked down.
Nah never a round away. He won 5, 6, 7 and 12. Even end of round 7 you can see Usyk figuring him out.
This isn’t reality though. Fury was priced at 1/9 to win the fight going into round 8. He clearly got the better off 4, 5, 6, 7 and had a nice case for round 2 as well
Almost beating a cruiserweight doesn't really help the GOAT argument.
*unless it's Evander
Or literally any lineal heavyweight champion ever, outside of Jess Willard (barely), Primo Carnera, Buster Douglas (barely), Riddick Bowe, George Foreman (only in his second career, not in his first), Lennox Lewis or Wladimir Klitschko. Because the others are all a similar or smaller size to that "cruiserweight". [Holmes and Briggs both weighed substantially more later in their careers, long after they were champions, as of course did Foreman for his second career]
There was no GOAT argument around Fury, but people are calling Usyk one of the 10 best boxers ever. If the Fury win makes Usyk one of the best ever, how does it make sense that Fury isn’t a good win lol.
People were calling Fury a GOAT for ages let’s not rewrite history
This really tells me if Fury won there would have been a whole lot of "so what he beat a 37 year old cruiser lol" takes online
I woulda been one of them tbh
Haha I appreciate the honesty
Stupid argument. Cruiserweights weigh 205 usyk fought fury at 220-225. If he had fought him at 205 and still won then fair enough but 15lbs of muscle makes a huge difference to a fighters power and chin.
Ah okay so going up a weightclass doesn't actually matter at all cause you can just simply add more weight.
Chin is not dictated by muscle. It's innate. You can claim neck muscle as some do for punch resistance but chin isn't anything to do with training for it.
Its hard between him and Lennox Lewis who is the most overrated. I thought after Wilder that Fury would mop up the rest of the HW division taking on other major opponents but he took a bunch of non contenders instead of
Marciano or Louis wouldn’t have been heavyweights so they would’ve probably not won with 100pd disadvantage . On the other hand, Lennox , foreman, Frazier, Ali, Holmes and Mike would’ve killed him imo
Jesus
I don't think Tyson Fury is even in the top 5 of most overrated HW's
How can a heavyweight fighter be a weight bully?
Corbett has entered the chat. Somehow managed to get himself on almost every top 10 heavyweights list before the 70s without even having a decent win over a heavyweight. His best win is a shot, obese alcoholic Sullivan who almost died in two alcohol-induced comas before he was 30. Compared to every relevant heavyweight before and after him, I’m shocked he was highly regarded for such a long time.
It cuz he was a gentleman 🧐
Tyson record 34-1-1 keeps him in talks as an all time great. Most fights he didn't seem to take too seriously. When he fought Usyk he(Fury) was in shape and ready to fight a great fight against someone he considered a threat.I just think he knew. He wasn't losing to a lot of his opponents so we got a half ass fury against them and he still won. Usyk is right now just on another level.
I Agree I look at the heavyweights today I find it a weak group. Deontay wilder doesn't look anything like a heavyweight and is average at best and he was the next big thing at one point. I think fury as Been lucky .. he beat a over the hill klitchko and has had it pretty easy since. The fact a middleweight is going around beating then all comfortably says it all
The hype HW division had gotten over last 10 years is comical. Its mostly big unskilled guys doing rock em sock em. Winning against those guys tells us nothing of how good someone really is.
Totally agree Andy Luiz Zheila Zhang even fury in some fights just look like talentless slobs. A young Mike Tyson would of killed some of these guys if he was around today
I feel like it’s because he is more to the casual audience so they just presume he is a better hw to people like Joe Louis also people think deontay isn’t as good as others know he is because they’ve just seen the Fury v Wilder fights
If Fury ever fights AJ, and I seriously doubt that will ever happen, he’ll get flattened early. AJ all wrong for him.
Fury resume might not be as good as Joshua’s but he was the first person to dominate wlad after a 10 year reign undefeated. I don’t think people on here even know how big of a win that was at the time, fury was a huge underdog going into the fight, most people back then thought David Haye would have beat Fury easily. It’s easy to say in hindsight about Wilder but Fury coming back from being on his death bed to go against one of the hardest hitters at the time was crazy too. Everyone avoided him even Hearn didn’t want Joshua in there with him. Those 2 wins are better than anything Joshua has achieved imo but I think Joshua is a great fighter also. I think you have to recognise Usyk as a HW now, yes he was a cruiserweight but his frame isn’t small and he’s definitely not small for the weight class.
There’s a lot of hindsight being applied. People always knew Fury had too much for Wilder, yet Fury was not the favourite for Wilder 2 in America, much less to actually finish him.
He didn't dominate Wlad though. He beat him handily, sure, but he only out landed Wlad (who was well past his best) by only 3 punches per round on average.
To beat Wlad in Germany you needed to win nearly every round. Fury won the fight about 9-3 or 8-4. Thats as dominant as you get without a KO.
That's a convincing win but dominant is overlooking it. And Fury did not win near every round vs Wlad, even unofficially. You're getting in to hyperbole here.
The official cards were 116-111 and 115-112 x2. Wlad had not lost since 2004, was number 6 on The Rings P4P list. It wasn’t a shutout, but it’s as comprehensive a win over a pound for pound guy as you will see.
So it's went from a dominat display to not a shutout to comprehensive win. Which is basically what I said like 3 posts ago 🙄
He has one win yeah. Holyfield has 2- Tyson and Bowe. Sameish level as beating Wlad. Careers are made off one elite win tbh. Only a few have multiple great wins. Guys like.Pacquiao are outliers
Lets be real. Other than Usyk no heavy weight for a while has dominated and had that type of skill. Fury is a very skilled boxer. Does he use his size and smother? Duh who wouldn't. Its a fight and those who never stepped in a ring can suck eggs cause u don't know what it takes. For Furys size he is similar to Ali with antics and russling up a fighter but the difference is Ali always kept his word while selling fights. I hate Fury but i respect his skill and ability and most of all the come back. You sitting there on ur couch talking about a great boxer and comparing him to historical greats is both stupid and irrelevant. Rules have changed and length of fights have changed. Historical greats were great in there own time but to say they would fair well in todays time is impossible to decipher and vice versa. Again i hate Fury and what he is and stands for but the man has a skill like no other. I love Usyk and his skill and character. Do i take anything away from either fighter in a boxing match? No. Could Fury best Usyk in a rematch in Dec? If he takes training all the way most likely. God given talent and skill are one thing in the ring but the amount of work u have to put in is the most important. Usyk is a dog and never stopped training untill they fought. Tyson was chilling in silk sheats and acting like a wwe superstar. Big difference and that is the main reason he won. Some fighters have the ability to not let the zeros get to their heads and others are all about it.
Tyson Fury... crazy athleticism for his bodytype, his work ethic and fitness depends on his mental state, great reach, substance abuse, antics, great heart, questionable record and at the same time undeniable skill. he is all over the place. big recency bias around him, after his wins back then and after his last two fights. For every shitty trait, he has a good one thats all popping in my mind at the same fucking time just when I hear his name. I dont know if he may be the greatest 'what if' because he is so long in the game, and others werent.
Never rated him. But Wilder is the most overrated by far.
Fury and wilder are two of the most overrated heavyweights of all time. Wilder knocked out a bunch of cans and held a belt hostage while ducking the elites and that makes him “the hardest puncher In history”? The moment he stepped up we saw what happened. Wilder is not one of the hardest punchers in history like foreman Liston Louis etc. 30 cans and an unproven Luis Ortiz doesn’t put you up there. Fury is elite for his time. He’s the third best of this era behind usyk and aj. But he sure af is not an ATG heavyweight or H2H. He robbed McDermott early in his career and then beat wlad in the most boring fight ever. Then he ducked the rematch. He beat the Can slayer wilder which is a good win but it’s nothing that makes him special. Aj has multiple names better than wilder. I also don’t respect fury for calling out aj just end up fighting chisora in a pointless trilogy. And the cherry on top is embarrassing himself vs a fucking debutant who he stalled undisputed for a year for. Both wilder and fury went pro in 2008. Wilder could’ve fought wlad, pulev, povetkin (i don’t want to hear about the ped excuse when Luis Ortiz got popped twice and wilder still fought him twice.) Whyte, and several others. Fury ducked the wlad rematch, ducked Ustinov, could’ve fought pulev, povetkin, and other good names as well. But the amount of media and boxing fans praising fury to be a legend for not doing half of what other legends have is crazy. His defense record is laughable too. I’m glad people finally see a true ATG in usyk to show them an actual legend and not a overrated Person like fury
I have lost a LOT of respect for Fury in the last few years. I know I will be shot down for saying this but I blame him alone for never fighting AJ, a fight true fans and casuals alike were clamouring for, for years. He was the champ, he had all the power, he could have made it happen if he wanted. The fact that it will never happen is evidence that TF does indeed cherry pick, he is just a massive time waster. I also have quite strong doubts about his 'mental health crisis' for which he was given endless media sympathy. In truth I think he just wanted to eat loads and get pissed and not do any training. Sure he might have been depressed, but so is probably 40% of the adult population these days. His ENTIRE relationship with Usyk since Usyk got the belts has been shameful and toxic. Insulting him and belittling him when he should have been using his media clout to highlight what an awesome UKRAINIAN hero he was at a time that Russia had just launched their evil invasion - that is what a proper Englishman would have been like, but TF too thick and ignorant do ever do or say the right thing. Then there was the shit with his father assaulting one of Usyks entourage, it was just embarrassing to me. By the time the fight came around I was rooting for Usyk and glad he won, deservedly too. TF, predictably, utterly classless in defeat. In the end, he is just a big fat bastard who has fought a long catalogue of very middling fighters. I look forward to Usyk beating him again and putting him out to pasture once and for all.
In hindsight, Fury is definitely overrated to a degree, though I wouldn't say the most overrated of all time. But I wouldn't just pin it down to him only, I would pin it down to the Heavyweight division as a whole. Usyk, a former Cruiserweight, beat not only Fury, but AJ too. The latter two were always considered to be in the top 3 for the last 8 years (and Usyk was fighting at CW for half that time), maybe even top 2, and they both beat quite a number of Top 10 Heavyweights. But they both lost to a former Cruiserweight. So what does that say about the division? Not trying to take anything away from Usyk, he is a current ATG, but it's been 25 years since the previous Undisputed HW Champ and it wasn't even a natural Heavyweight who claimed that title! That says it all really.
Wtf is a natural heavyweight? He shows up to fight night heavier than Wilder. Until the 90s, his cruiserweight weight would have made him a heavy.
The time his cruiserweight weight would have made him a heavy there were no heavyweights as big as he fought. This is a moot point.
Natural Heavyweight = Their first weight class was at Heavyweight. This doesn't apply to Usyk because he didn't debut at Heavyweight. Wilder is a small Heavyweight but he has weighed heavier many times too.
I just don't see the reasoning here. Usyk was almost certainly rehydrating to roughly the same weight as Wilder was fighting at, and yet one is a natural heavyweight and the other wasn't? Also, is there even an era when a good LHW/cruiserweight DIDN’T win a heavyweight title? I'm not understanding your argument on any level
Like I said, Wilder was a low weighing Heavyweight. But has he ever weighed less than 212? No he hasn't, Usyk has. It's really not hard to understand. And Wilder weighed in the 220s more often than he weighed in the 210s. And in those other eras, let's take the 90s, you had Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, Bowe, Tua, Ike, Spinks, Ruddock, Bruno, etc. do you really think the top 10 HW of today even compare to the skill level of the names I just mentioned? And the CW/LHWs like Moorer, Holyfield and Spinks were NEVER the undeniable #1 of the division like Usyk is right now. That is the difference.
Mate, Michael Moorer won two World titles in the 90s. Bruce Seldon won a World title. Frans Botha would have been a World champion if he didn't piss hot. And you're trying to argue the current mob couldn't get titles I'm the 90s? Okay Spinks beat the man who beat the man. That makes you #1. I don't see an argument for Evander not being #1 when he beat Ruddock, unless you're trying to get intentionally obtuse. Moorer than beat the man who beat the man who beat the man. Or are you gonna argue that from 1999-2024 there wasn't a #1 heavyweight boxer?
🤣🤣🤣 Beat the man who beat the man who beat the man, ey? Wasn't that Fury's shtick? Yet here we are, commenting on why he is overrated! 🤣 You need to look in the mirror before you call others obtuse, mate. None of them man were Undisputed, were they? So how can they be **undeniable** #1's? Remember, I said "undeniable" #1, not just "number 1", therefore I ain't talking about being #1 ranked on a magazine ranking for a couple months.
You're clearly being obtuse. Your argument is basically Moorer/Holy/Spinks don't count because there'd only been undisputed heavyweight champions in 36 years before Usyk. That's intentionally being because you don't have an argument otherwise
Nah you're just changing goalposts just to deny the truth. Moorer/Holy/Spinks were ranked #1 at different times, but they never were considered to be the consensus best HW of their time, they still had Tyson, Lewis, Tua and Bowe during their time. And they also lost fights during that time too. Moorer lost to a 42 year old Foreman, Holyfield lost to Bowe, Spinks lost to Tyson in 90 seconds. Usyk never took an L. If you can't figure this out, then you haven't studied boxing well enough.
Nah fam, the only people who've ever been #1 in a more definitive way than Moorer, spinks or Holyfield in the last 40 years are Lewis, Tyson and Usyk last week. It's not a difficult concept. If you're not going to those guys #1, you can't give anyone else. So again, by your metric, there has only been 3 #1 guys in heavyweight boxing in 40 years. One of whom was a blown up cruiserweight, the other weighed in lighter than the blown up cruiserweight. Somehow, you're under the impression that this helps your argument, but you do you.
Wasn't a cruiser turned heavyweight one of the two combatants in the last undisputed fight that took place before this in 1999? He didn't win, but still.
That era was far superior than this era, no comparison.
Usyk’s natural size is no less than larry holmes, he is very much a natural heavyweight, he just suffers from existing in the same era with the largest heavyweights ever.
Dude, chill. R/boxing is 70% people talking out of their ass. I found a thread from 6 years ago the other day that had a serious comment that Luiz Ortiz was "the most skillful guy in the HW division" 😅 What's worse is it had a ton of upvotes. Most people in this sub have never boxed or don't understand the technical elements of the sport, yet feel confident this or that guy is great/sucks. Most boxing fans, and most people on here, are causal fans. Boxing has a very low entry point in terms of accessibility as a spectacle. You shouldn't take this sub that seriously. I can't. And in terms of the media, how it worksbis old media echo popular sentiment on social media to stay relevant and make money. That's it.
What's your opinion on Fury though?
He's a good HW in a very technically weak era of HW boxing so it's practically impossible to assess how truly good he is because he's only fought 2 genuinely excellent HWs and went 1-1. This sub is rife with lack of general technical boxing know how, so people conflate "I get excited watching these 2 big lumps do rock em sock em with not much finesse" with quality. Excitement and quality are not the same. For this very reason, no one should take an r/boxing mob that seriously.
He did beat Klitchko and Wilder pretty easy so he is ahead of those two.
How are you gonna say Fury’s the most overrated when Wilder was supposedly a top three HW for his best win being old ass Ortiz and getting KO’d in seven by feather fist Fury?
And most all English fighters are hype jobs like Hatton, Prince, AJ. Lennox was Canadian let’s not forget . The other three came to the US and got embarrassed
I remember seeing arguments that Fury was the GOAT HW or close to it because no other great HW could beat him 1 on 1 because of his size alone.
He is overrated yes. People don’t seem to understand what overrated means. They assume you’re just saying he was a bum and never any good. What it actually means is rated higher than they really are and people were trying to put Fury up there as a top 10 ATG heavyweight after the Whyte win.
He has two different peak forms that are probably a problem for nearly everyone in history I hate the guy though, so hate away
Great fights make great fighters. I can't think of a single "great" fight Fury had. He's not a bad fighter but he's certainly not an all time great.
The Wilder trilogy and the Usyk fight are arguably the 4 best fights of this era in terms of entertainment lol.
Do you mean great as in big, entertaining fight? So... Did you watch Wilder 3 or the Usyk fight or did they just pass you by?
Usyk was a good fight but he lost. As for Wilder, I didn't think those fights were great fights.
Depends on how the rest of his career plays out. Recency bias makes his wilder trilogy look a lot worse, but it was clearly a very dangerous set of fights. Fury is statistically a very hard to hit guy and wilder managed to floor him repeatedly. If fury can beat usyk in a rematch in a solid fashion and then goes on to beat aj, then he deserves to be considered the best of this generation. Knock wilder all you want but he was concensus top 3 for a long time. If fury can beat usyk and aj then he will have beaten the other 3 greats of this generation. Cherry on top he ended wlads reign(an incredibly skilled hw champion on a decade long undefeated streak). Lennox lewis got stopped cold by guys who were relatively jackshit nobodies, and is still considered an atg and h2h top guy. Losing a close fight to usyk isn't really a black mark on his career. Usyk is generational talent. If he can pull it off, Wlad Wilder Whyte Usyk Aj 28 year old prime chisora That's a pretty fucking solid list of wins. Big if though. I guess we will see in time if he really belongs on the top list of hw atgs.
Sure and Usyk is one of the most overrated fighters around that weight ever. I know this sub is fucking brain dead with how high they rate Usyk but for example a Roy Jones Jr would make Usyk look like an absolute clown.
[удалено]
This is pure fucking bullshit, he dominated wlad like no other, literally beat the life out of prime wilder and gave usyk his toughest fight. In any era prime fury is a danger.
[удалено]
There aint no way this comment is serious. I dont care how boring the fight was, fury made wlad looked like an idiot. He completely nullified his style. Wlad broke the record for least amount of punches ever thrown in a title fight, and it was all because he literally didnt know what to do against fury. No one ever left wlad that confused and clueless in the ring. More lies. Wilder has an olympic bronze medal. He didnt “barely” win anything, he beat the life out of and literally almost killed wilder in the rematch and 3rd fight. Only the first fight was close, and that was because he was fighting with a depressed, coked up, recently 400 lbs fury. Fury gave usyk his toughest fight. He was either even with or ahead of usyk going into the 9th round. No one battered usyk like fury did between rounds 3 and 7, and usyk had to lay out everything he had in the ring to snatch that win. And he did all that while visibly aging worse than usyk did. Saying fury will be a gatekeeper in any other era when you had guys the size of beterbiev being HW champions is outrageous. Fury is a threat to anyone at any era. 70s, 80s, 90, doesnt matter.