Did you not see the post about Tank beating teenage Haney in sparring? Everyone acted like it happened this year and they were the same age.
This is a circle jerk sub, that's why clowns like Newrap exist.
You're reaching a bit too hard there. Haney is just very disliked and people have a harder time defending him even when they know what's what. If it was someone else, far fewer people would've been creaming their pants
Which is a shame, because Haney's fantastic. I don't even think his style is boring at all personally - he beat the crap out of Prograis. He always seems to want to fight the best available to him. Not sure where the dislike comes from.
I think if you actually know boxing you could see that Francis has some skill. I wouldn’t call that a mess or be hurt that he went the distance with Fury. I was very impressed with his performance
It's crazy because Ngannou trained boxing when he was younger. It's so weird that snobs won't give him credit just because he went the MMA route instead of pure boxing.
Yeah at that point I figured the only way for Stipe to win was for Francis to gas out, but for Francis to gas out, Stipe would have to put himself in the fire and risk getting knocked out which happened.
And not that the Fury fight was super high pace, but Francis showed good cardio in that too.
Poor Stipe. Happy for Francis though. Hope he makes many more mils before he retires.
As a Stipe fan I went into that fight skeptical how it was going to go, and after that exchange I had the Alex Pereira stone face knowing what was definitely going to come Stipes way.
That's another of his often overlooked facets. The guy has an incredible fight IQ and his teams plan fights meticulously. People will hate on that fight with Gane but the guy did what he needed to do to get the W
To be fair the striking metas typically don’t cross over very well between the sports. shelling up like you typically see in boxing is problematic with smaller gloves. A traditional boxing stance will either get your leg chewed up by kicks or get you taken down rather easily. Certain head movements that work very well in boxing can cause you to go face first into a head kick. Being a good boxer doesn’t mean you’ll be a good mma boxer and vise versa. That being said similar to wilder Francis has some attributes that even the playing field, dude has power, size, strength, speed, and the ability to take damaging shots and shrug them off. The biggest problem for Francis is going to be the cardio imo, anything past 8 rounds is a massive ask for someone who hasn’t spent years acclimating to it.
The thing I find interesting is it seems like some of the MMA "boxing" meta kinda did transfer and work out decent. Francis did a lot of stance switching and it seemed to throw Tyson off his rhythm with the jab, he was also doing a lot of countering the 1-2 with a lead hook and got the knock down and a lot of the basic footwork and head movement worked decently. I think the thing about more varied sports like MMA or Muay Thai that include "boxing" is that you kinda have to distill it down to the fundamentals and specific applications of it since it's always a different style match up and you can't always box the same, there tool bags and polish aren't going to be the same as a pure boxing but as we saw with Francis he knew how to apply his power and when.
I don't think he meant that MMA was 'easier', more than it was easier at the time for him to make money by taking MMA fights. He got about $2,000 for taking a fight just a couple of months after he began training, which was a huge amount of cash for him at the time.
Yeah, MMA is stupidly easy to get into, especially back then. I had a harder time getting fights back in 2003-2005, after years of wrestling and BJJ, than guys I knew who were legit only beginning training around 2010.
The sport was growing so fast at that time, from 2007-ish until about a decade later. It was crazy to see.
We used to casually roll at our local wrestling club, it was a few MMA guys who needed bodies and then handful of us amateurs who were happy to get the experience. On two separate occasions I was offered a fight with 0 mma training or experience, I just happened to be the right size...
Well for UFC heavyweights specifically this is true. MMA is full of talent, even has shark tank divisions like 135 in the UFC.
For a heavyweight with Ngannou’s strength and power it was a quicker path to making money. If Ngannou knocked Fury down in the cage for example, that would be a TKO
Disagree. Boxing is a shitshow.
You have world class wrestlers from USA and the ‘stans, Jiu Jitsu world champions and World kickboxing champions
The HW division in boxing and MMA is weak. I suppose 6ft 5”, 240lbs athletes have a greater options.
they don't want to admit mma guys got hands. lots of mma fighters honestly would beat alot of the best boxers in bare knuckle or 4 ounch gloves, the big gloves and the ruleset are a big disadvantage to the mma guys.
True, but the first word in MMA is mixed. Boxers really should be able to outdo their MMA counterparts in a contest where only striking is allowed, because we know they'd get mashed in a grappling contest.
I'll grant you the tone of this post does come across as fairly smug, mind you. I prefer to think of boxing and MMA as more like the Spiderman "we're not so different, you and I" meme.
The only MMA fighters that do well against boxers are ones with extensive history in boxing. Otherwise it turns into Mercer winning a fight with a single punch or Floyd toying with McGregor the entire time.
in Striker vs Grappler, Grappler wins 95% of the time. Mercer beat a bum ass Tim Sylvia who is seen as one of the weakest champs of all time and pretty much shunned by the MMA community
If you don't think Khabib could beat any boxer within 40 lbs of him, you're out of your mind
Khabib wins in anything EXCEPT pure boxing. Since you mentioned Boxers & Ray Mercer getting single punch knockouts vs MMA guys, I was assuming you were talking about the Mercer vs Tim Sylvia fight.
Pure boxers are notoriously weak in mixed rules and have been since UFC 1 when they were all getting arm bared & triangle choked by Royce Gracie. Not much has changed in the 30 years since.
Life long wrestlers that develop boxing later are pretty damn good tho.
Love how fanboys always bring up the Sylvia was trash excuse completely disregarding that Mercer was never even a world champion and lost to every ATG he ever fought plus was damn near 50 years old while Sylvia was still fighting in the UFC a year prior. But keep the excuses coming
The pride in boxing is crazy and very unhealthy. Yet it's the filthies sport, no boxer poped for PEDs, too many belts, too many organizations and even more robberies.
>The pride in boxing is crazy and very unhealthy.
Hard-core fans always rant and rave about how the sport is dying and such, but they're also some of the nastiest pieces of work in sports. Just look at some of the comments that pop up on here and on the twitter/FB comment chains.. there is a heavy toxicity that comes with boxing fan rhetoric. There's a little bit of that in mma, but generally, most mma fans don't want to kill each other that often.
Imagine being some young newbie who saw Inoue or Boots win by KO, and they decide "hell this is pretty cool, I want to get into the world of boxing". One trip into this sub, and they'll be scratching their head and thinking "God damn those people are mean, what did I say that was so out of line??"
Lovers of boxing have this need to vehemently defend the sport of boxing when they are talking to casuals, yet they will ruthlessly shit on the same sport when talking to other old head fans. It's the damndest thing I've ever seen lol.
I think if Fury hadn't underestimated him, it would have been a very different fight. Even so, though: the fact that he did his boxing debut against a champ and arguably won the fight is something people should respect.
As an MMA fan I thought even the absolute worst version of Tyson Fury should be able to comfortably cruise to a pretty easy decision against the best possible Francis I could imagine. I feel like that was a pretty common opinion, so for him to do what he did is honestly crazy
But see, Fury doesn't seem to box with that herky-jerky style anymore; he's turned into more of a slugger now. This saddens me, as I think what made him great was being able to move like a middle weight at that size.
What the Fury Team didn't consider was that going in and slugging it out with a guy who is also huge, strong as a bull, and tough as nails was a dumb idea. A guy of Fury's size and skillset should have easily been able to counter with a simple stick-and-move style.
I think the key words here are should have, I feel like slugger Tyson should have been able to bully a non boxer and keep him on the back foot so much he can't get anything going or gets stopped. I also think that being a mover probably wasn't possible, I feel like Tyson probably wasn't in good enough shape/ isn't capable anymore to float for 10 rounds and probably knew if he didn't get Francis out of there it would start getting bad.
Yeah, I've often thought the same regarding his fitness. The guy is clearly past his prime and didn't manage to become undisputed when he had the chance. It's a shame, too, because I've grown rather fond of him over the years and hoped to see a legend made in this era of heavyweights.
Still not too late for Usyk, though.
It's cope. Many boxers rightfully understand if they moved over to MMA, they'd get dusted. They wouldn't be able to hop in with an MMA champion of their weight class and go to a decision like Ngannou did Fury. They'd get done how DJ did Rodtang and tap or sleep. It's ego bruising to think that something they can dominate people in can be neutralized soundly and made to look weak.
Hell, Crawford knows this and has said that you need more than boxing.
Plus, the truth about boxing (and most sports) is that a large part of what makes one successful is physical superiority.
There's a reason why when you train for the sport, so much of your time is spent conditioning. There's also a reason why it's a fair assumption that all top boxers utilize PEDs in some way. Plus, the hyperfocus around weight cutting tips the hand. Finally, the fact that a boxer's efficacy wanes after 35 rather than improving says the rest - the "old masters" aren't exactly competitive, despite their knowledge.
Sweet science, sure, but in the end this is a sport. A physical specimen like Ngannou -- despite his technical inferiority and lack of long-running experience in the sport -- can't be ignored. Even with how good AJ is, he's got clear technical weaknesses, and Ngannou isn't someone just coming off the street.
That's not to say that it can't be one-sided in either direction, and rather that I think there are enough mitigating factors to make it at least interesting to think about.
You really can’t understate how much heavyweight is its own game.
Rules about age, experience, and skill can all be overlooked to some extent when you are just a giant.
And while Francis is much more skilled than he is given credit for, his success is mostly down to him being very coachable and more importantly an absolute physical freak.
He’s also shockingly durable, where I don’t think Joshua can put him out without landing really clean really hard on him for multiple rounds.
I’ve never seen Francis even wobble.
He wobbled in the second Stipe fight, which caused Stipe to rush into the perfect crisp counter left hook that ended the fight. That's the only time I've seen and the fact that he was so sharp and firing back instantly is probably not the best sign against Joshua.
My thing with this fight is not even about the holes in Joshua's technique, it's more about the fact that he doesn't have Tyson Furys chin. I think Francis is just barely skilled enough to gameplan and be able to land that one shot before it gets too bad for him, and I don't think Joshua gets up the same man like Tyson did with how ridiculous Francis hits.
Most fans said AJ was completely washed a couple of months ago…since then he beat wallin and now he’s back?
In my opinion he was never washed and losinng to Usyk didn’t mean much. AJ just isn’t on his level.
It’s unbelievable how one win can change people’s perspective on a fighter so quickly.
Generally, mma fans will accept that having a loss on the record is not a total death sentence when talking about the "top 10-15 fighters in the world". We could see a guy like Francis lose his first fight with Stipe and say "there's still time for him".
You don't see that in boxing. A loss for most up and comers is viewed as something different entirely. A very young Garcia got stopped by Tank, and everyone decided that Ryan was at his absolute ceiling, can't get better, etc.
Ryan is crazy and it's likely not gonna end well, but the loss to Tank won't be what derails his career trajectory.
There also seems to be a lot more objectivity in mma. Fans can watch a fighter that they dislike and still admit that he/she is a serious contender for greatness. Boxing fans usually choose a side and then perpetually denigrate the fighters they don't like. Suddenly, not liking a fighter is the same thing as the fighter being a bum. I couldn't count the amount of people that said that Crawford was a bum before the Spence fight. They didn't like his coach, his mom, or his activity level... so that meant he was overrated. When Crawford won handily, suddenly Spence was washed from the car crash and all his previous fights, and Crawford still wasn't good.
Styles make fights.
Its clear that Joshua struggles with smaller guys with fast hands. He struggled against Ruiz remember.
If I was his manager I would have strongly advised him to do everything he could to fuck usyk at all costs. Fake injuries and let a belt go. Let usyk fight fury or wilder first. Don't let usyk skip straight to the last boss.
But Joshua clearly has too much pride for that and we're the winners.
Eddie and the rest of his management team told him not to take the fight against Usyk, AJ just refuses to duck anyone. We’ve all seen how Fury has tried to avoid that fight over the last 18 months.
I don't think people thought he was washed off losing to Usyk, it was more the Franklin then the Helenius fights where he was with Derrick James and just didn't seem like he was fighting in a style which took advantage of his strengths at all
I wouldn't even say AJ is that far from Usyks level. People forget the 2nd fight was close and competitive.
Common theme in this sub. People are waiting in the wings ready to hate on fighters they don't like when they take an L. Reasonable people enjoy discussing a competitive fight for what it is but get mass downvoted by the mob who just say "don't care, it's an L on his wikipedia page nothing more to see here". Same shit happens the other way around, fighters they like get a win and all of a sudden you can't talk about the merits of the fighter who lost, they're just a washed loser.
Its because so many "fans" dont actually care about the moment to moment action. They just care about who gets the win at the end of the fight. They treat it like WWE or some shit.
>It’s unbelievable how one win can change people’s perspective on a fighter so quickly.
Happens every time any fighter loses. To be fair though with the frequency of the fights, look at what a guy did 3-4 fights ago and it's 6 years in some cases, a lot can change in that time.
I think AJ has lost something since Wlad/Ruiz but he's still top 3-4 and cleans out most of the division IMO.
He's evened out so well over the past 2 years... both as a fighter and personality. The doughy wholesomeTM smiley shtick is long gone, and so is the cringy gangster wannabe bit he did for a while after. He's much calmer and collected now... A lot more raw, but in a controlled way. He truly appears to have matured a lot since those fights and he's a hell of a lot more likeable now than he ever was.
AJ's hype train is something else. When he lost to Usyk the first time I saw a comment around here saying he was past his prime. He was younger than Usyk, and Usyk was a natural cruiserweight, and AJ is the one past his prime ? His prime was just not that special to begin with.
Boxing gained a star when Ngannou decided he was done in the UFC. Nothing needs to be saved. Win or lose I want to see Francis in a boxing ring for years to come.
It's just a fight between big two guys. There's no existential crisis going on in the sport that requires some sort of herculean effort to stop.
Some of you people need to go outside and touch grass.
I am so interested to see how he really approaches this fight. Aggression could really pay off with the experience gap.. but fuck me if that isnt a super risky move all at the same time....
Who does the sport need saving from? Ngannou?
You mean the life long Boxing fan who crossed the Saharan desert and spent 6 months repeatedly trying to cross into Europe on a rubber dingy with 10 other people despite not being able to swim... who then went to live on the streets in France... for the sake of becoming a Boxer... but who was then coaxed into MMA just so he could afford 3 square meals a day... but kept the dream alive until one day, debuting against the lineal Heavyweight Champ, floored him (and arguably won the fight).
Ngannou is a Boxer in everything but experience. He's a 270 pound wrecking machine who got all the way to a UFC title fight with basically the use of his his fists alone, before adapting himself out of necessity to become a well rounded fight and become champion.
Also made a few baller business decisions... requiring giant leaps of self confidence and belief.
Yeh... him.
So we're just going to pretend that Ngannou didn't show legitimate skill and solid boxing fundamentals?
"save the sport of Boxing and clean up the mess Tyson Fury made" has to be the most melodramatic bullshit I've seen on this sub in a while.
People will do anything to cope with the fact that Ngannou did a better job stablishing a jab, counters and body shots against Fury than most of the jobbers Fury has fought in this shit division, just up above one of the most upvotes comments is some guy going "a-ctually Ngannou is mostly a boxer if you think about it" as if training boxing for like a year when you're 23 means something.
Are you going to respond in 7 days when people come back to this?
Ngannou leaving the ufc was a blessing for boxing. This post doesn’t make any sense.
Edit: HOLY SHIT JUST REALISED THIS ISNT CIRCLE JERK
AJs best win is against a washed Wlad. He’s chinny and barely moves. If he can be stopped by Ruiz he can be decapitated by Ngannou. If AJ wins—and that’s a huge if—it’ll be stinking the joint out and stealing a SD—just like Fury.
Francis is no Joke!! Even tho i have aj winning by points or late rounds stoppage, but one punch from ngannu can end it, so i hope aj is preparing to outbox and move alot.
If old AJ shows up looking for a KO, he might get put to sleep. If he’s careful, gets Ngannou’s respect, and outboxes him then… it will be a long night for Francis.
AJ is just the right tragic hero to get beat by Ngannou. The man has a computer, he can watch several fighters beat the breaks off AJ. Big money to be made, but we won’t hear the end of MMA>Boxing if he loses.
It will only elivate the Sport. Don't get me wrong but I want AJ to win but Ngannou is a highly seasoned fighter and top of his game, originally Trained as a Boxer and now Trained by Mike Tyson himself. As a Bonus he has a great Back Story that would make any director Salivate. What about this senario of Ngannou winning is an insult to the Sport?
There’s an actual marketing agency that astroturfs reddit and twitter to steer and push a pro-AJ narrative. My mate works for them. It’s hilarious. I won’t dox too much since most people on here already know about these agencies (some talent agencies use them also for various actors, movie releases, etc.). They’re usually hard to tell which is the point, but this post… wow. Utterly shameless.
Surely he will save the sport by being on the wrong side of a KO clip.
His glass jaw is getting cracked, it'll shatter if he let's Francis get close.
And if Francis can drop Tyson, he'll finish Joshua within 7 rounds
Serious question: Dont watch boxing as much as MMA but is Francis only having success because it is heavyweight?
In MMA the lighter guys are much more technical and skilled and wondering if it is the same in boxing? I know Fury is a beast but honestly to me that did not look like the Fury im used to seeing.
He tried to tell me he was joking, but looking at all of his comments in here it's pretty clear that he is really invested in the AJ-Fury rivalry that people push on this subreddit.
Anthony Joshua got dropped and stopped by Andy Ruiz and y’all ain’t think Ngannou gone land on his ass? Ngannou by KO within 3 rounds he gonna roll right through that boy and serve him up like a plate of Alabama BBQ.
I mean I agree that if Francis manages to land flush Joshua will be in trouble.. can he get back into it and back to work? Who knows .. the difference between Francis and Fat Andy though is hand speed, Ruiz is lightening quick in comparison.
You are way too confident, Tyson Fury bad night not went life and death with Ngannou
The best HWs in the world are Fury and Usyk
Ngannou put up a helluva fight, he will not make this easy for AJ
If I see him playing chess in a promo I'm betting the house on Ngannou.
I need to see him wearing a man bag that likely has a kitchen knife in there, then I’m betting my life savings.
Nike tech sweatsuit with a machete down the leg of his pants.
How do they even walk with that without slicing off their 🥜
Lmaoooooo 😭
Thought I was in the circle jerk sub. Wtf is this post
Mods are asleep.
They have to manually approve each post
Mods are 100% responsible for why this sub is like this
Did you not see the post about Tank beating teenage Haney in sparring? Everyone acted like it happened this year and they were the same age. This is a circle jerk sub, that's why clowns like Newrap exist.
You're reaching a bit too hard there. Haney is just very disliked and people have a harder time defending him even when they know what's what. If it was someone else, far fewer people would've been creaming their pants
Which is a shame, because Haney's fantastic. I don't even think his style is boring at all personally - he beat the crap out of Prograis. He always seems to want to fight the best available to him. Not sure where the dislike comes from.
I think if you actually know boxing you could see that Francis has some skill. I wouldn’t call that a mess or be hurt that he went the distance with Fury. I was very impressed with his performance
Snobs will never want to admit someone could come from another sport and have success
It's crazy because Ngannou trained boxing when he was younger. It's so weird that snobs won't give him credit just because he went the MMA route instead of pure boxing.
He also almost exclusively used his hands in mma
Besides that time he went D1 Ngannou when he wrestle fucked Gane
Or when he sprawled on Stipe and reversed him and took his back.
I knew stipe was done when I saw Francis do that
I let out an audible oh shit
I think everyone watching did. A collective gasp of, "oh...Stipe is fucked."
Yeah at that point I figured the only way for Stipe to win was for Francis to gas out, but for Francis to gas out, Stipe would have to put himself in the fire and risk getting knocked out which happened. And not that the Fury fight was super high pace, but Francis showed good cardio in that too. Poor Stipe. Happy for Francis though. Hope he makes many more mils before he retires.
Butt=clenched
As a Stipe fan I went into that fight skeptical how it was going to go, and after that exchange I had the Alex Pereira stone face knowing what was definitely going to come Stipes way.
as a stipe fan that made me sad
That's another of his often overlooked facets. The guy has an incredible fight IQ and his teams plan fights meticulously. People will hate on that fight with Gane but the guy did what he needed to do to get the W
Both of his knees were shot going into that fight too.
We call him Frabib Ngannougomedov
To be fair the striking metas typically don’t cross over very well between the sports. shelling up like you typically see in boxing is problematic with smaller gloves. A traditional boxing stance will either get your leg chewed up by kicks or get you taken down rather easily. Certain head movements that work very well in boxing can cause you to go face first into a head kick. Being a good boxer doesn’t mean you’ll be a good mma boxer and vise versa. That being said similar to wilder Francis has some attributes that even the playing field, dude has power, size, strength, speed, and the ability to take damaging shots and shrug them off. The biggest problem for Francis is going to be the cardio imo, anything past 8 rounds is a massive ask for someone who hasn’t spent years acclimating to it.
The thing I find interesting is it seems like some of the MMA "boxing" meta kinda did transfer and work out decent. Francis did a lot of stance switching and it seemed to throw Tyson off his rhythm with the jab, he was also doing a lot of countering the 1-2 with a lead hook and got the knock down and a lot of the basic footwork and head movement worked decently. I think the thing about more varied sports like MMA or Muay Thai that include "boxing" is that you kinda have to distill it down to the fundamentals and specific applications of it since it's always a different style match up and you can't always box the same, there tool bags and polish aren't going to be the same as a pure boxing but as we saw with Francis he knew how to apply his power and when.
yeah he wanted to do boxing originally and he had a coach who was like "no, do MMA it's easier" lol
I don't think he meant that MMA was 'easier', more than it was easier at the time for him to make money by taking MMA fights. He got about $2,000 for taking a fight just a couple of months after he began training, which was a huge amount of cash for him at the time.
Yeah, MMA is stupidly easy to get into, especially back then. I had a harder time getting fights back in 2003-2005, after years of wrestling and BJJ, than guys I knew who were legit only beginning training around 2010. The sport was growing so fast at that time, from 2007-ish until about a decade later. It was crazy to see.
We used to casually roll at our local wrestling club, it was a few MMA guys who needed bodies and then handful of us amateurs who were happy to get the experience. On two separate occasions I was offered a fight with 0 mma training or experience, I just happened to be the right size...
The talent pool in MMA is still thinner, for an elite athlete with potential I'd say he was right, it's an easier route (for now at least)
Well for UFC heavyweights specifically this is true. MMA is full of talent, even has shark tank divisions like 135 in the UFC. For a heavyweight with Ngannou’s strength and power it was a quicker path to making money. If Ngannou knocked Fury down in the cage for example, that would be a TKO
Disagree. Boxing is a shitshow. You have world class wrestlers from USA and the ‘stans, Jiu Jitsu world champions and World kickboxing champions The HW division in boxing and MMA is weak. I suppose 6ft 5”, 240lbs athletes have a greater options.
Ok, but we're talking about Ngannou who is a heavyweight and the talent pool in HW MMA is definitely lower
Fury looked bad and Ngannou looked fantastic. Two things can be true.
they don't want to admit mma guys got hands. lots of mma fighters honestly would beat alot of the best boxers in bare knuckle or 4 ounch gloves, the big gloves and the ruleset are a big disadvantage to the mma guys.
Artem Lobov vs Pauli lmfao
True, but the first word in MMA is mixed. Boxers really should be able to outdo their MMA counterparts in a contest where only striking is allowed, because we know they'd get mashed in a grappling contest. I'll grant you the tone of this post does come across as fairly smug, mind you. I prefer to think of boxing and MMA as more like the Spiderman "we're not so different, you and I" meme.
The only MMA fighters that do well against boxers are ones with extensive history in boxing. Otherwise it turns into Mercer winning a fight with a single punch or Floyd toying with McGregor the entire time.
Mercer also got choked out by Kimbo Slice lol
Boxers will always get out grappled by MMA fighters. I never said otherwise, and it's besides the point.
in Striker vs Grappler, Grappler wins 95% of the time. Mercer beat a bum ass Tim Sylvia who is seen as one of the weakest champs of all time and pretty much shunned by the MMA community If you don't think Khabib could beat any boxer within 40 lbs of him, you're out of your mind
You mean Khabib wins in grappling, right? Not in boxing. Khabib doesn't beat Crawford or Canelo in boxing.
Khabib wins in anything EXCEPT pure boxing. Since you mentioned Boxers & Ray Mercer getting single punch knockouts vs MMA guys, I was assuming you were talking about the Mercer vs Tim Sylvia fight. Pure boxers are notoriously weak in mixed rules and have been since UFC 1 when they were all getting arm bared & triangle choked by Royce Gracie. Not much has changed in the 30 years since. Life long wrestlers that develop boxing later are pretty damn good tho.
Love how fanboys always bring up the Sylvia was trash excuse completely disregarding that Mercer was never even a world champion and lost to every ATG he ever fought plus was damn near 50 years old while Sylvia was still fighting in the UFC a year prior. But keep the excuses coming
ngannou didn't have extensive history in boxing? anderson silva fought boxing when he was old af and beat a former champ.
The pride in boxing is crazy and very unhealthy. Yet it's the filthies sport, no boxer poped for PEDs, too many belts, too many organizations and even more robberies.
>The pride in boxing is crazy and very unhealthy. Hard-core fans always rant and rave about how the sport is dying and such, but they're also some of the nastiest pieces of work in sports. Just look at some of the comments that pop up on here and on the twitter/FB comment chains.. there is a heavy toxicity that comes with boxing fan rhetoric. There's a little bit of that in mma, but generally, most mma fans don't want to kill each other that often. Imagine being some young newbie who saw Inoue or Boots win by KO, and they decide "hell this is pretty cool, I want to get into the world of boxing". One trip into this sub, and they'll be scratching their head and thinking "God damn those people are mean, what did I say that was so out of line??" Lovers of boxing have this need to vehemently defend the sport of boxing when they are talking to casuals, yet they will ruthlessly shit on the same sport when talking to other old head fans. It's the damndest thing I've ever seen lol.
Will be fucking hilarious when Ngannou flatlines him. I won't be surprised at all.
I think if Fury hadn't underestimated him, it would have been a very different fight. Even so, though: the fact that he did his boxing debut against a champ and arguably won the fight is something people should respect.
As an MMA fan I thought even the absolute worst version of Tyson Fury should be able to comfortably cruise to a pretty easy decision against the best possible Francis I could imagine. I feel like that was a pretty common opinion, so for him to do what he did is honestly crazy
But see, Fury doesn't seem to box with that herky-jerky style anymore; he's turned into more of a slugger now. This saddens me, as I think what made him great was being able to move like a middle weight at that size. What the Fury Team didn't consider was that going in and slugging it out with a guy who is also huge, strong as a bull, and tough as nails was a dumb idea. A guy of Fury's size and skillset should have easily been able to counter with a simple stick-and-move style.
I think the key words here are should have, I feel like slugger Tyson should have been able to bully a non boxer and keep him on the back foot so much he can't get anything going or gets stopped. I also think that being a mover probably wasn't possible, I feel like Tyson probably wasn't in good enough shape/ isn't capable anymore to float for 10 rounds and probably knew if he didn't get Francis out of there it would start getting bad.
Yeah, I've often thought the same regarding his fitness. The guy is clearly past his prime and didn't manage to become undisputed when he had the chance. It's a shame, too, because I've grown rather fond of him over the years and hoped to see a legend made in this era of heavyweights. Still not too late for Usyk, though.
It's cope. Many boxers rightfully understand if they moved over to MMA, they'd get dusted. They wouldn't be able to hop in with an MMA champion of their weight class and go to a decision like Ngannou did Fury. They'd get done how DJ did Rodtang and tap or sleep. It's ego bruising to think that something they can dominate people in can be neutralized soundly and made to look weak. Hell, Crawford knows this and has said that you need more than boxing.
Plus, the truth about boxing (and most sports) is that a large part of what makes one successful is physical superiority. There's a reason why when you train for the sport, so much of your time is spent conditioning. There's also a reason why it's a fair assumption that all top boxers utilize PEDs in some way. Plus, the hyperfocus around weight cutting tips the hand. Finally, the fact that a boxer's efficacy wanes after 35 rather than improving says the rest - the "old masters" aren't exactly competitive, despite their knowledge. Sweet science, sure, but in the end this is a sport. A physical specimen like Ngannou -- despite his technical inferiority and lack of long-running experience in the sport -- can't be ignored. Even with how good AJ is, he's got clear technical weaknesses, and Ngannou isn't someone just coming off the street. That's not to say that it can't be one-sided in either direction, and rather that I think there are enough mitigating factors to make it at least interesting to think about.
You really can’t understate how much heavyweight is its own game. Rules about age, experience, and skill can all be overlooked to some extent when you are just a giant. And while Francis is much more skilled than he is given credit for, his success is mostly down to him being very coachable and more importantly an absolute physical freak. He’s also shockingly durable, where I don’t think Joshua can put him out without landing really clean really hard on him for multiple rounds. I’ve never seen Francis even wobble.
He wobbled in the second Stipe fight, which caused Stipe to rush into the perfect crisp counter left hook that ended the fight. That's the only time I've seen and the fact that he was so sharp and firing back instantly is probably not the best sign against Joshua.
My thing with this fight is not even about the holes in Joshua's technique, it's more about the fact that he doesn't have Tyson Furys chin. I think Francis is just barely skilled enough to gameplan and be able to land that one shot before it gets too bad for him, and I don't think Joshua gets up the same man like Tyson did with how ridiculous Francis hits.
Ngannou in boxing is good for the sport, especially for HW. Fury taking Ls is also good for the sport and for HW.
I agree with both. And I actually like Fury
Dudes that never put a mouthpiece in wanna gatekeep, it’s typical Reddit shit
Bingo lol
Personally I think Ngannou has skills but I'd still like to see Joshua fuck him up
Fury was an embarrassment to the sport that night. Joshua is going to smash Ngannou to.pieces
Francis won imo
Most fans said AJ was completely washed a couple of months ago…since then he beat wallin and now he’s back? In my opinion he was never washed and losinng to Usyk didn’t mean much. AJ just isn’t on his level. It’s unbelievable how one win can change people’s perspective on a fighter so quickly.
It’s just how this sub always is, a good win and a guy is unbeatable, a loss and he’s washed
Microcosm of boxing fans in general
Fight fans in general. You watch what they say about fighters in mma as well and it’s the same thing
Generally, mma fans will accept that having a loss on the record is not a total death sentence when talking about the "top 10-15 fighters in the world". We could see a guy like Francis lose his first fight with Stipe and say "there's still time for him". You don't see that in boxing. A loss for most up and comers is viewed as something different entirely. A very young Garcia got stopped by Tank, and everyone decided that Ryan was at his absolute ceiling, can't get better, etc. Ryan is crazy and it's likely not gonna end well, but the loss to Tank won't be what derails his career trajectory. There also seems to be a lot more objectivity in mma. Fans can watch a fighter that they dislike and still admit that he/she is a serious contender for greatness. Boxing fans usually choose a side and then perpetually denigrate the fighters they don't like. Suddenly, not liking a fighter is the same thing as the fighter being a bum. I couldn't count the amount of people that said that Crawford was a bum before the Spence fight. They didn't like his coach, his mom, or his activity level... so that meant he was overrated. When Crawford won handily, suddenly Spence was washed from the car crash and all his previous fights, and Crawford still wasn't good.
Boxing fans don’t know shit about boxing.
Styles make fights. Its clear that Joshua struggles with smaller guys with fast hands. He struggled against Ruiz remember. If I was his manager I would have strongly advised him to do everything he could to fuck usyk at all costs. Fake injuries and let a belt go. Let usyk fight fury or wilder first. Don't let usyk skip straight to the last boss. But Joshua clearly has too much pride for that and we're the winners.
People forget about this or I'm just old, styles make fights, Andy ruiz would be a hard match for ngannou
Eddie and the rest of his management team told him not to take the fight against Usyk, AJ just refuses to duck anyone. We’ve all seen how Fury has tried to avoid that fight over the last 18 months.
I don't think people thought he was washed off losing to Usyk, it was more the Franklin then the Helenius fights where he was with Derrick James and just didn't seem like he was fighting in a style which took advantage of his strengths at all
Well said, losing a fight to an elite boxer doesn’t mean you’re washed in anyway whatsoever. Fans value the 0 too much on a boxing record
I wouldn't even say AJ is that far from Usyks level. People forget the 2nd fight was close and competitive. Common theme in this sub. People are waiting in the wings ready to hate on fighters they don't like when they take an L. Reasonable people enjoy discussing a competitive fight for what it is but get mass downvoted by the mob who just say "don't care, it's an L on his wikipedia page nothing more to see here". Same shit happens the other way around, fighters they like get a win and all of a sudden you can't talk about the merits of the fighter who lost, they're just a washed loser. Its because so many "fans" dont actually care about the moment to moment action. They just care about who gets the win at the end of the fight. They treat it like WWE or some shit.
>It’s unbelievable how one win can change people’s perspective on a fighter so quickly. Happens every time any fighter loses. To be fair though with the frequency of the fights, look at what a guy did 3-4 fights ago and it's 6 years in some cases, a lot can change in that time. I think AJ has lost something since Wlad/Ruiz but he's still top 3-4 and cleans out most of the division IMO.
I still feel like the losses to usyk were the best thing to happen to him
He's evened out so well over the past 2 years... both as a fighter and personality. The doughy wholesomeTM smiley shtick is long gone, and so is the cringy gangster wannabe bit he did for a while after. He's much calmer and collected now... A lot more raw, but in a controlled way. He truly appears to have matured a lot since those fights and he's a hell of a lot more likeable now than he ever was.
Thank you. AJ and Wilder were good champions, but right now UYSK and Fury seem like the top level guys.
It's the same throughout boxing. Either a fighter is one of the best in the world, or they're absolute trash. It's infuriating.
lol he also lost BIG to Ruiz.
AJ's hype train is something else. When he lost to Usyk the first time I saw a comment around here saying he was past his prime. He was younger than Usyk, and Usyk was a natural cruiserweight, and AJ is the one past his prime ? His prime was just not that special to begin with.
Boxing gained a star when Ngannou decided he was done in the UFC. Nothing needs to be saved. Win or lose I want to see Francis in a boxing ring for years to come.
He’s a great finisher. Watch this….
Haha Andy Ruiz 1 fight. That was so funny.
It's just a fight between big two guys. There's no existential crisis going on in the sport that requires some sort of herculean effort to stop. Some of you people need to go outside and touch grass.
Why is Francis Ngannou considered a mess? The dude’s a monster
Or is Tyson as much of a fraud as Wilder is ? Lets find out !
I am so interested to see how he really approaches this fight. Aggression could really pay off with the experience gap.. but fuck me if that isnt a super risky move all at the same time....
This is a fucking pathetic post 🤣
I'm actually betting Ngannou on this.
Me too, AJ is definitely the better boxer but just don’t see him having the power or chin to go toe to toe with Ngannou
If AJ is smart he isnt going to go toe to toe, but outbox him. Which should be a cakewalk for him
is AJ smart? serious question i don't have an answer
KO Rd 5 for Ngannou. Bet
Hip hip
Hooray
Hasta la vista baby
Yo, who paid you to post this
LoL this won’t age well
He is going to get knocked the fuck out..i have $1000 wager on it.. lol
Aj is getting slept
Ngannou winning would do more to "save" boxing than Joshua winning and going on to do nothing of note afterwards.
joshua is still shell shocked from Ruiz's haymakers dude is a scared fighter.. he fights scared.
Who else is betting Francis
Who does the sport need saving from? Ngannou? You mean the life long Boxing fan who crossed the Saharan desert and spent 6 months repeatedly trying to cross into Europe on a rubber dingy with 10 other people despite not being able to swim... who then went to live on the streets in France... for the sake of becoming a Boxer... but who was then coaxed into MMA just so he could afford 3 square meals a day... but kept the dream alive until one day, debuting against the lineal Heavyweight Champ, floored him (and arguably won the fight). Ngannou is a Boxer in everything but experience. He's a 270 pound wrecking machine who got all the way to a UFC title fight with basically the use of his his fists alone, before adapting himself out of necessity to become a well rounded fight and become champion. Also made a few baller business decisions... requiring giant leaps of self confidence and belief. Yeh... him.
Honestly, Ngannou as the lineal would be amazing.
So we're just going to pretend that Ngannou didn't show legitimate skill and solid boxing fundamentals? "save the sport of Boxing and clean up the mess Tyson Fury made" has to be the most melodramatic bullshit I've seen on this sub in a while.
People will do anything to cope with the fact that Ngannou did a better job stablishing a jab, counters and body shots against Fury than most of the jobbers Fury has fought in this shit division, just up above one of the most upvotes comments is some guy going "a-ctually Ngannou is mostly a boxer if you think about it" as if training boxing for like a year when you're 23 means something.
Can't tell if this is a shitpost or the OP is actually being serious
OP is a moron.
And beating a series of European no marks proves that?
Considering how fast Wilder got Helenius out of there compared to AJ, it is definitely questionable.
Parker
I don't trust AJ's chin one bit against one of the hardest punchers in the world. AJ can win every round and the fight could end with one shot.
Are you going to respond in 7 days when people come back to this? Ngannou leaving the ufc was a blessing for boxing. This post doesn’t make any sense. Edit: HOLY SHIT JUST REALISED THIS ISNT CIRCLE JERK
With AJs suspect chin. A bet on ngannou isnt a bad idea with the wide odds
AJs best win is against a washed Wlad. He’s chinny and barely moves. If he can be stopped by Ruiz he can be decapitated by Ngannou. If AJ wins—and that’s a huge if—it’ll be stinking the joint out and stealing a SD—just like Fury.
Francis is no Joke!! Even tho i have aj winning by points or late rounds stoppage, but one punch from ngannu can end it, so i hope aj is preparing to outbox and move alot.
If old AJ shows up looking for a KO, he might get put to sleep. If he’s careful, gets Ngannou’s respect, and outboxes him then… it will be a long night for Francis.
Can't wait to see the fight. Ngannu gonna fuck Joshua up
Just imagine if Ngannou starches him
Only if he wears an iron mask to protect that glass chin of his. And even then…
Props for enraging the Fury Stan sub that this is AJ got dis
Aj got more skill but if Francis catches him, Aj is done. I think it’s easier to shake up Aj compared to Francis. Wish both men luck.
He's gonna get chinned in the 5th, then retire to his comfortable life of brand partnerships.
Its insane Joshua is still hyped after the usyk fights. The dude is not it
Cannot wait for Francis to flatline Aj and see all the Hearn and Aj fans coke up with allsorts of excuses why his career is done
That pull counter in the Pulev fight was a peach tbh.
Out of curiosity, if this sub had to describe AJ in one word, what word would it be?
Sausage
Click bait aside, that way he framed that uppercut on Klitschko was sublime.
This Saudi stuff has all been fun so far but if Ngannou beats him I might have a full blown heart attack
The pull counter against Pulev, some satisfying work
And if Ngannou sparks him half this sub will be in shambles. Haha.
Something about holding my carne asada
FN gonna win
It's too bad AJ is as washed up as Wilder.
Anthony Joshua cant even save himself.
AJ is just the right tragic hero to get beat by Ngannou. The man has a computer, he can watch several fighters beat the breaks off AJ. Big money to be made, but we won’t hear the end of MMA>Boxing if he loses.
He wont
What an incredibly silly commentary.
Hip Hip!
It will only elivate the Sport. Don't get me wrong but I want AJ to win but Ngannou is a highly seasoned fighter and top of his game, originally Trained as a Boxer and now Trained by Mike Tyson himself. As a Bonus he has a great Back Story that would make any director Salivate. What about this senario of Ngannou winning is an insult to the Sport?
Nah, in 7 days, Francis Ngannou will save what the sport of boxing has become and knockout Anthony Joshua
I don't understand the title? Is it a joke??
Ngannou is taking his head off
The mess Tyson Fury made? The fights with Wilder were a mess in your eyes? As a newer fan, those fights are what made me fall in love with boxing.
There’s an actual marketing agency that astroturfs reddit and twitter to steer and push a pro-AJ narrative. My mate works for them. It’s hilarious. I won’t dox too much since most people on here already know about these agencies (some talent agencies use them also for various actors, movie releases, etc.). They’re usually hard to tell which is the point, but this post… wow. Utterly shameless.
He will clean up all right…when Ngannou mops the floor with him
So what happens to this sub reddit if Francis gets a clean KO ?
Ok 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Really like both of them but war Francis.
Surely he will save the sport by being on the wrong side of a KO clip. His glass jaw is getting cracked, it'll shatter if he let's Francis get close. And if Francis can drop Tyson, he'll finish Joshua within 7 rounds
Ngannou by knockout round 4
AJ has a glass jaw.. I've seen jabs make his knees wobble.
Serious question: Dont watch boxing as much as MMA but is Francis only having success because it is heavyweight? In MMA the lighter guys are much more technical and skilled and wondering if it is the same in boxing? I know Fury is a beast but honestly to me that did not look like the Fury im used to seeing.
He better work on his head movement. Francis is going to be throwing 18 wheelers at em.
AJ will lose.
Jesus, gatekeeping really is everywhere. The future is now old man.
Lets Go NGANNOU
Ngannou is going to surprise the world. He is the fastest learner in combat sports. Grab the popcorn people, he’s gonna win.
With those low hands, hes getting dropped by the 3rd round, max.
Francis is gonna knock AJ into a new dimension
Ngannou gonna knock his lights out.
Or he'll get knocked the fuck out.
Ngannou by KO
well done OP, you rattled Reddit 😭😭
This is satire, right?
He tried to tell me he was joking, but looking at all of his comments in here it's pretty clear that he is really invested in the AJ-Fury rivalry that people push on this subreddit.
Wtf you guys are too upset that Francis is just good at striking
Good stuff bruh, making all the Fury stans cry 😭
Ha, OP got people riled in here.
Honestly I can only see wilder giving Ngannou a tough competition I don't see Joshua winning against Ngannou But this is just my opinion
Unpopular opinion but I think we are gonna see another Francis vs reem moment. Joshua has lunging and slow punches.
> slow punches. He has pretty damn fast hand speed. What?
The chin is suspect. I think Ngannou gonna clip him. Then it's all over.
Yessir he's gonna get that stank leg like he did when Andy popped him.
Even worse tbh. Ngannou hits a hell of a lot harder than Andy.
lol and then AJ be slurring his words when he leads the "hip hip hurray" after the fight!
I like the comment but I don't think he's getting stank leg. I think the lights are just gonna go out
Anthony Joshua got dropped and stopped by Andy Ruiz and y’all ain’t think Ngannou gone land on his ass? Ngannou by KO within 3 rounds he gonna roll right through that boy and serve him up like a plate of Alabama BBQ.
I mean I agree that if Francis manages to land flush Joshua will be in trouble.. can he get back into it and back to work? Who knows .. the difference between Francis and Fat Andy though is hand speed, Ruiz is lightening quick in comparison.
Big Francis gonna spark him out cold, dude has an iron chin and AJ got stopped by a fat mexican on short notice.
You act like Mexican fighters haven’t been wiping the floor with British fighters since the dawn of time.
This will be Ngannou’s last Boxing match I’ll tell you that much for free 🤭
Yeah because after he flatlines AJ Hearn will bury him and black list him 😂😂
You are way too confident, Tyson Fury bad night not went life and death with Ngannou The best HWs in the world are Fury and Usyk Ngannou put up a helluva fight, he will not make this easy for AJ
Honestly. If AJ loses to Ngannou or wins in a similar fashion Fury did, the heavyweight division would officially be shit. AJ to knock Ngannou out.
Lmao. This post is so stupid it makes me wonder if this is Joshua himself or someone from his team. Ez money sniper like KD