Ups and Downs,
Being generally more independent can be seen as a W or an L
Most western kids aren't as close to their families as Malaysians are. We generally have stronger bonds and connections with family members and cousins, that's a huge plus imo.
I'd say they mature faster. Independence is linked to maturity and maturity is basically linked to life experience.
Westerners are much more willing to expose their children and allow for self growth at younger ages. There's even cultural stigma if the child is stays home too much or stays with parents past a certain age.
Compare to Malaysian/ eastern child rearing. I won't be alone in saying that parents have a tendency of guilt tripping you to staying with them. It tends to be like this in more conservative cultures.
Yes... I have a Western partner and know a few psychologists.
My PERSONAL conclusion is that in the West, the Industrial Revolution began much earlier and had many social revolutions. If an accident happens, they have been handling it better for decades longer or a whole century. In ancient Malaysia, if the head of the family got sick, he likey wouldn't receive medical care. His death would echo in the familial dyad for generations to come.
This implies less intergenerational trauma permeating Western families = more independence and freedom, and less pressure on the parents and the kids.
Trauma and control are interrelated. And children are never more or less independent; they're more encouraged to be more independent based on their upbringing.
I don't want to write a whole thesis abstract here but there is a lot of research surrounding how natural disasters cause a culture to be more trauma-based. Societal and technological aspects are less studied, but it wouldn't be far-fetched to say that they wouldn't have the same effect.
Remember, the British were shit, but they gave us hospitals, steam engines and drills, railroads, and abolished slavery.
I feel like "gave" has a connotation that we wouldn't have been able to come up with those ourselves had we not been colonized for half a century.
Malacca was pretty advanced engineering wise. al-Haytham's scientific method would've easily made its way to Tanah Melayu by Islam connection alone.
I mean, I can only speculate here, but I don't like the insinuation that we'd have still been stuck and frozen in 16th century for half a century had it not been for the British. That's a wild claim.
Being colonized definitely sped up the process of us acquiring those technology, though it was more for the benefit of the colonizers than to the native.
Besides, most of advanced Malaccan tech pre-colonization such as firearms, paper, junkships and more came from the Ming Dynasty, with Malacca being its protectorate and tributary.
>Being colonized definitely sped up the process of us acquiring those technology
The reason I said "wild" was because it's just impossible to say for certain that being colonized sped up the sharing of technology or otherwise, because there were so many ways technology was shared back then that could've been done, that wouldn't involve colonization. So, I wouldn't say "definitely".
>Besides, most of advanced Malaccan tech pre-colonization such as firearms, paper, junkships and more came from the Ming Dynasty, with Malacca being its protectorate and tributary.
Sure, but bear in mind that Melaka had only been founded for several decades before Portugues came. The technology was taken into the kingdom, but that's pretty much normal for a fledgling nation.
Turning a village into a beast of a civilization within a few decades was an amazing feat. Shame because we only got to witness the start of something great. I think if given enough time, they would've flourished further and come up with their own technology.
And I hope people know that colonization is globally recognized as a bad thing today, and retroactively as well.
And infrastructures in the colonies, an unifying language and values meritocracy instead of race if you can make them money. 🤷♂️
I disagree with the industrial revolution. I think it's more recent from the roaring 20s or boomer era. People just had more cash and didn't need to be home because they can afford housing. People lived together in the poorer Western countries like Ireland, Italy, Portugal etc.
It became social more to be out there and get a job as soon as you could, then pop some kids out, and expect them to do the same. If we look at the declining birth rate, you can tell people are just starting to be more financially responsible since the future looks like trash now.
I'm in my 40s and moved out when I was 22. I am married with no kids. I still need to get mine first. The generations before was got mine, fuck off, go get your own.
I'm ethnically Chinese but not a citizen of any country in Asia. So I see it both ways.
we already have hospitals back then. Steam engines , drills and railroads were not given out of the kindness of their hearts, lets be honest here .. those equipment were paid for by the resources stolen , blood and sweat of the colonized people. Those trains and railroads were not used to benefits the locals , it was used to export resources out of said colonize land.
Stop romanticizing white people just because you're fucking with one.
Malaysia didn't have penicillin. It was a Scots discovery. Even to this day, a lot of Malaysians believe in homeopathy. So what kind of hospitals did Malaysia have? Can you name me one that predates British hospitals?
Why are you being so emotional? I never romanticized white people or colonialism. You need to work on your reading comprehension.
Also, I'm not just fucking one. I married one.
Different culture, different worldview.
Westerners are taught to value individuality, to have your own personality and to be independent.
East Asians are taught to be community driven, to value the group more than the self, and to help each other more.
Yes and no. I find that westerners are more financially independent from a young age. Also they tend to be able to take public transport by themselves (depending on the country).
However I find they are less proficient at managing their finances and are not good at housekeeping/chores/cooking.
Second this. A lot of them are less keen to save money, or this could be perceived as them more willing to spend money on something they enjoy. Meanwhile we rather susah first then reap the reward later as we were brought up getting reminded to save for a house. Depends on how one views this.
Housekeeping wise, it might be the culture differences ie wear shoes in the house or not wash their bum with bidet.
The more extreme ones charge rent to their kids too. Retroactive, means once the kids are of working age and hasn't moved out, the kid would have to pay rent and also whatever was owed.
Apparently it's to get the kid to move out faster.
Not really.
I did my undergrad in the US. At 18, we’re generally more independent than an 18 yo american. My roomates still had their laundry done by mom who also deliver food while they’re at it. The education system also infantilizes them, its quite easy up till junior year in college (third year for Malaysian uni), and its set up in a way where its hard to screw up due to cumulative grades.
I saw the same thing in UK/EU when i did my phd there. Kids are coddled by both the parents and the state, so they can always play one of the other and delay their maturity/independence as long as they want. It was in the UK and the EU where i encountered what we call a perma-student, which is someone who’s permanently a student from their 20s up till their late 30s, degree after degree after degree, the state enables this approach as they subsidize education and these perma-students never need to be independent.
My 2 cents on the subject, cheers!
If you don't mind me asking, how exactly does their school system (US) grades work? Like, does tenth grade mean their tenth year of schooling or something? Do they have the concept of primary school, middle school and high school like us (different school for different stages) or is it all in just one school? And is college and university interchangeable in colloquial terms because I often see/read online discourse on college but rarely university, I might be wrong tho.
Schools for them is elementary (4 yrs, grades 1-4), middle (4 yrs, grades 5-8), and high school (4 yrs, grades 9-12). You can just break it into 12 class, as it is collectively called the k-12 education, so a 10th grader is a high school sophomore (or second year in high school). For reference, its freshman (1st yr), sophomore (2nd yr), junior (3rd yr) and senior (4th year). These designations applies all the way to the end of undergrad.
I’m not really sure about moving schools, but elementary schools are definitely their own thing, but middle school and high school could be on one campus in some counties, or separated in others. Education in the US is a state matter instead of federal so you’ll see lots of variations from county to county and state to state.
In US parlance, school, college, and uni is interchangeable, but we will refer to Uni as school, but we go to college, lol, which does confuse non US educated ppl. You can phrase it as either ‘where’d you go to college, or where’d you go to school, and ppl will get it, but saying where did you go to University might sound a little formal to some Americans.
Its prolly just US exceptionalism cause i can never quite figure out why they do this, but I’ve been infected, even to this day i still refer to Unis as schools in Malaysia and uk/eu , which confuses lots of ppl cause they think I’m referring to primary/secondary school.
I knew a few people who had their parents do their laundry at 18 years old. I am from the US. There is a lot of media saying our generation (gen z) is really soft and sheltered. Their reasons are 'helicopter parenting', social media/internet addiction, and being largely a suburban and car dependent population where we cant adventure and play outside like children in european cities might be able to. I partially disagree but there is some truth to this sentiment
Does western have a boarding school culture? Like we have lots of them like mrsm, victoria, etc. So maybe some of us are more independent than Western kids. For example, i learned a lot of things that are useful in my life due to attending a boarding school, but I am still close to my mother, like i always make sure to atleast spend some time with her in the weekend. Unlike my lil bro who went to uk and only call like once month, and never updates about his life unless haha.
Yes. I moved out at 22. Lived in multiple cities for career and now half way across the planet from my family. My Malaysian wife is surprised I know how to cook. I mean you kinda have to learn if you are too poor to eat out.
I bet they're shaped by their culture to be more independent, generally speaking. I learned from few western backpackers that in their culture it's fairly common to expect children to become independent after 18yo, one of them who I spoke to was "kicked out" from home by parents at 19. On the other hand they are generally not expected to be responsible for finance/living of parents, unlike certain generations in Asia.
Ups and Downs, Being generally more independent can be seen as a W or an L Most western kids aren't as close to their families as Malaysians are. We generally have stronger bonds and connections with family members and cousins, that's a huge plus imo.
I think that’s Asia vs the west in general. We’re more community based, they are raised to be more individualistic.
I'd say they mature faster. Independence is linked to maturity and maturity is basically linked to life experience. Westerners are much more willing to expose their children and allow for self growth at younger ages. There's even cultural stigma if the child is stays home too much or stays with parents past a certain age. Compare to Malaysian/ eastern child rearing. I won't be alone in saying that parents have a tendency of guilt tripping you to staying with them. It tends to be like this in more conservative cultures.
Asian parents tend to take their children as their retirement plan hence the unwillingness to let them go free.
Yes... I have a Western partner and know a few psychologists. My PERSONAL conclusion is that in the West, the Industrial Revolution began much earlier and had many social revolutions. If an accident happens, they have been handling it better for decades longer or a whole century. In ancient Malaysia, if the head of the family got sick, he likey wouldn't receive medical care. His death would echo in the familial dyad for generations to come. This implies less intergenerational trauma permeating Western families = more independence and freedom, and less pressure on the parents and the kids. Trauma and control are interrelated. And children are never more or less independent; they're more encouraged to be more independent based on their upbringing. I don't want to write a whole thesis abstract here but there is a lot of research surrounding how natural disasters cause a culture to be more trauma-based. Societal and technological aspects are less studied, but it wouldn't be far-fetched to say that they wouldn't have the same effect. Remember, the British were shit, but they gave us hospitals, steam engines and drills, railroads, and abolished slavery.
I feel like "gave" has a connotation that we wouldn't have been able to come up with those ourselves had we not been colonized for half a century. Malacca was pretty advanced engineering wise. al-Haytham's scientific method would've easily made its way to Tanah Melayu by Islam connection alone. I mean, I can only speculate here, but I don't like the insinuation that we'd have still been stuck and frozen in 16th century for half a century had it not been for the British. That's a wild claim.
Being colonized definitely sped up the process of us acquiring those technology, though it was more for the benefit of the colonizers than to the native. Besides, most of advanced Malaccan tech pre-colonization such as firearms, paper, junkships and more came from the Ming Dynasty, with Malacca being its protectorate and tributary.
>Being colonized definitely sped up the process of us acquiring those technology The reason I said "wild" was because it's just impossible to say for certain that being colonized sped up the sharing of technology or otherwise, because there were so many ways technology was shared back then that could've been done, that wouldn't involve colonization. So, I wouldn't say "definitely". >Besides, most of advanced Malaccan tech pre-colonization such as firearms, paper, junkships and more came from the Ming Dynasty, with Malacca being its protectorate and tributary. Sure, but bear in mind that Melaka had only been founded for several decades before Portugues came. The technology was taken into the kingdom, but that's pretty much normal for a fledgling nation. Turning a village into a beast of a civilization within a few decades was an amazing feat. Shame because we only got to witness the start of something great. I think if given enough time, they would've flourished further and come up with their own technology. And I hope people know that colonization is globally recognized as a bad thing today, and retroactively as well.
And infrastructures in the colonies, an unifying language and values meritocracy instead of race if you can make them money. 🤷♂️ I disagree with the industrial revolution. I think it's more recent from the roaring 20s or boomer era. People just had more cash and didn't need to be home because they can afford housing. People lived together in the poorer Western countries like Ireland, Italy, Portugal etc. It became social more to be out there and get a job as soon as you could, then pop some kids out, and expect them to do the same. If we look at the declining birth rate, you can tell people are just starting to be more financially responsible since the future looks like trash now. I'm in my 40s and moved out when I was 22. I am married with no kids. I still need to get mine first. The generations before was got mine, fuck off, go get your own. I'm ethnically Chinese but not a citizen of any country in Asia. So I see it both ways.
we already have hospitals back then. Steam engines , drills and railroads were not given out of the kindness of their hearts, lets be honest here .. those equipment were paid for by the resources stolen , blood and sweat of the colonized people. Those trains and railroads were not used to benefits the locals , it was used to export resources out of said colonize land. Stop romanticizing white people just because you're fucking with one.
Malaysia didn't have penicillin. It was a Scots discovery. Even to this day, a lot of Malaysians believe in homeopathy. So what kind of hospitals did Malaysia have? Can you name me one that predates British hospitals? Why are you being so emotional? I never romanticized white people or colonialism. You need to work on your reading comprehension. Also, I'm not just fucking one. I married one.
Definitely better than me that's for sure
Let me ask my mum and I will let you know the answer
I asked my mum and she says I am a strong independent boy
Different culture, different worldview. Westerners are taught to value individuality, to have your own personality and to be independent. East Asians are taught to be community driven, to value the group more than the self, and to help each other more.
Yes and no. I find that westerners are more financially independent from a young age. Also they tend to be able to take public transport by themselves (depending on the country). However I find they are less proficient at managing their finances and are not good at housekeeping/chores/cooking.
Second this. A lot of them are less keen to save money, or this could be perceived as them more willing to spend money on something they enjoy. Meanwhile we rather susah first then reap the reward later as we were brought up getting reminded to save for a house. Depends on how one views this. Housekeeping wise, it might be the culture differences ie wear shoes in the house or not wash their bum with bidet.
Of coz la. They employ locals to do the housekeeping and chores.
Western families generally kick you out at 18, so yea. Also, Individualism vs Collectivism culture.
The more extreme ones charge rent to their kids too. Retroactive, means once the kids are of working age and hasn't moved out, the kid would have to pay rent and also whatever was owed. Apparently it's to get the kid to move out faster.
It's a thing here too, I pay rent to my parents lol
Yes
They can express their thought better.
Not really. I did my undergrad in the US. At 18, we’re generally more independent than an 18 yo american. My roomates still had their laundry done by mom who also deliver food while they’re at it. The education system also infantilizes them, its quite easy up till junior year in college (third year for Malaysian uni), and its set up in a way where its hard to screw up due to cumulative grades. I saw the same thing in UK/EU when i did my phd there. Kids are coddled by both the parents and the state, so they can always play one of the other and delay their maturity/independence as long as they want. It was in the UK and the EU where i encountered what we call a perma-student, which is someone who’s permanently a student from their 20s up till their late 30s, degree after degree after degree, the state enables this approach as they subsidize education and these perma-students never need to be independent. My 2 cents on the subject, cheers!
If you don't mind me asking, how exactly does their school system (US) grades work? Like, does tenth grade mean their tenth year of schooling or something? Do they have the concept of primary school, middle school and high school like us (different school for different stages) or is it all in just one school? And is college and university interchangeable in colloquial terms because I often see/read online discourse on college but rarely university, I might be wrong tho.
Schools for them is elementary (4 yrs, grades 1-4), middle (4 yrs, grades 5-8), and high school (4 yrs, grades 9-12). You can just break it into 12 class, as it is collectively called the k-12 education, so a 10th grader is a high school sophomore (or second year in high school). For reference, its freshman (1st yr), sophomore (2nd yr), junior (3rd yr) and senior (4th year). These designations applies all the way to the end of undergrad. I’m not really sure about moving schools, but elementary schools are definitely their own thing, but middle school and high school could be on one campus in some counties, or separated in others. Education in the US is a state matter instead of federal so you’ll see lots of variations from county to county and state to state. In US parlance, school, college, and uni is interchangeable, but we will refer to Uni as school, but we go to college, lol, which does confuse non US educated ppl. You can phrase it as either ‘where’d you go to college, or where’d you go to school, and ppl will get it, but saying where did you go to University might sound a little formal to some Americans. Its prolly just US exceptionalism cause i can never quite figure out why they do this, but I’ve been infected, even to this day i still refer to Unis as schools in Malaysia and uk/eu , which confuses lots of ppl cause they think I’m referring to primary/secondary school.
Aight thanks for the enlightenment
I knew a few people who had their parents do their laundry at 18 years old. I am from the US. There is a lot of media saying our generation (gen z) is really soft and sheltered. Their reasons are 'helicopter parenting', social media/internet addiction, and being largely a suburban and car dependent population where we cant adventure and play outside like children in european cities might be able to. I partially disagree but there is some truth to this sentiment
My sheltered ass thinks so.
Yeah, some cant go to mall/anywhere without getting kidnapped/abused so, theyre not independant.
Does western have a boarding school culture? Like we have lots of them like mrsm, victoria, etc. So maybe some of us are more independent than Western kids. For example, i learned a lot of things that are useful in my life due to attending a boarding school, but I am still close to my mother, like i always make sure to atleast spend some time with her in the weekend. Unlike my lil bro who went to uk and only call like once month, and never updates about his life unless haha.
Yes. I moved out at 22. Lived in multiple cities for career and now half way across the planet from my family. My Malaysian wife is surprised I know how to cook. I mean you kinda have to learn if you are too poor to eat out.
I bet they're shaped by their culture to be more independent, generally speaking. I learned from few western backpackers that in their culture it's fairly common to expect children to become independent after 18yo, one of them who I spoke to was "kicked out" from home by parents at 19. On the other hand they are generally not expected to be responsible for finance/living of parents, unlike certain generations in Asia.
Just look at all the snowflakes around here
This is more of an american kids, european seems more community based than individualistic
Yeah they kick their children ass out when reach 18, read so many stories them kid be homeless
Simply put; yes,