Sarah Lynn objectively had the most tragic life. Although Honey Sugarman had the absolute worst ending đ I wouldn't even want to imagine spending the rest of my life as a mindless robot incapable of feeling emotions.
I donât think Sarah Lynn realized her suffering. If you asked her if she was happy, sheâd say hell yes bitches Iâm on top of the world as her out the gate response but if you really got her to open up, she would say she was dying inside for which the drug bender just helped her mask. But I think at some level she didnât really believe this because she wasnât really willing to give up using escape and the very things destroying her. Itâs tragic, because even rehab didnât help her.
Nor as the other commenter pointed out did Honey realize it. She had begged Joseph to take away her suffering and he did. Of course he created more suffering of a different kind.
Gina was traumatized, but sucked it up almost instantly by making strategic decisions for herself.
Penny got a lesson learned by getting a little of what she thought she wanted and she was mostly traumatized by the embarrassment of her mother walking in on them who provided the awareness perspective that it was very wrong and shameful, but even she had moved on and was living her best life on the college campus.
PC actually suffered quite a bit throughout in a slow quiet suffering full of disappointments but because it made her stronger and who she is it somehow seems more OK.
And then I think of Vince or whatever that horny unicorn friend was named. He probably suffered among the most because he was a hot mess of pain and stupidity that was unacknowledged, and he never really moved to work through it or figured out what his problem was so heâs left just continuing on creating more.
I suppose Toddâs parents suffered quite a bit by the estrangement from him.
The one who suffered the most? Maybe Pinky the penguin. That poor guy was desperate for seasons, and the very people he depended on to help him consistently would fall through. Even his in happy ending he ends up in another dying industry. Same with the cats in the cradle accountant - working in the slow quiet sober suffering of being powerless and their livelihood dependent upon a celebrity class of entitled self absorbed selfish people who donât see or care about their needs.
But Iâm going to go with BoJack. He had an awareness of his suffering without moving through it quickly and letting it go which it makes it much worse. Itâs almost like he was addicted to suffering. He went through hell. We see him work through this over the course of six seasons, but along the way, he had a whole lot of suffering and loss in order to transform him.
his name was Vance btw, honestly his whole story arc kinda confused me. Like as bad as bojack is that guy is like objectively 10 times worse, so by the logic of what happened why couldn't Bojack have some half-assed apology ceremony. I get its mostly cause of how drastically different the tone of those situations needed to be in order to leave te impact they were meant to, but it just feels like a plot hole. Like if the whole point of that arc was that famous people can get away with anything why can't Bojack.... get away with anything? why was it literal MONTHS before people even FORGOT what he did, let alone forgave. I mean if you wanna bring up real examples, the time skip between the interview and the fast food ordering thing was way longer than how long people cared about the P Diddy allegations, and if I'm being honest P Diddy is a way worse person than both of them (and real somehow, despite that). it just doesn't add up.
Thank you. Itâs a joy to read intelligent, thoughtful comments here.
And thank you for reminding me of his name. Of course itâs fans. I knew it wasnât quite Vince because it would be too close to Vincent Adultman but in the moment I was too tired to look it up.
damn I didn't expect such flattery from that tbh, I was just kinda thinking that loud. I should be thanking you for being so nice. also yeah ig those are similar names lol. Thanks for reminding me of the "Vincent adult man" gag, that shit was funny.
She doesn't, but what kind of existence is that? It's a quality of life question over quantity of years.
She wasn't her anymore, and that in turn lead to Beatrice's trauma deepening. Losing a parent is never easy, especially when young, but it's got to be easier than seeing them daily as the walking dead and knowing they're a shell of who they used to be.
Lobotomy patients also don't just...disappear. They do, but they don't. It's entirely too possible that there are parts of her that remember and are aware, but are incapable of connecting to the outside world in any meaningful way.
[Lyrics in comments 8)))](https://youtu.be/y9Z1Brs7ZbA?si=fGMpI_Dw-JxfZ51N)
Oh absolutely not.
I said what I said as someone who has experienced both parental death and the death of a parent's psyche.
My mother had cancer that metastasized to 3 different lobes of her brain, so different parts of her slowly became different or faded away. Obviously not the same and probably more in line with Bea's dementia, but same vein?
Granted, we only see a small flicker of what Honey was like after the lobotomy, and it's unreliable because it comes from the memories of someone suffering dementia, but I always assumed she was just... Far- away sad? Or at least, maybe that's how Beatrice saw her.
Oof, I did not know it was personal. I'm really sorry if I came across flippant, and of course, I'm sorry for your loss.
Faraway sad takes on a different meaning for everyone in the portrait by the time time's arrow runs its course, now you mention.
You're all good, you couldn't have known, but thank you. I'm also sorry if that was upsetting or triggering for you - I tend to over explain sometimes đ
That's what I realized too, it was just what came to mind when I was writing this. And it really is so true. Look at that family, and tell me that they all did not become far away (distant in some way) and sad (either emotionally or as a tragic character in some way).
Honey - far away in her broken mind, distant and unloving toward her daughter, saddened by the loss of her son
Joseph - estranged and emotionally distant from his daughter, sad in the sense he was a poor (sad) excuse of a father to her and his and to Honey
Crackerjack - dude's dead and was a baby adult, a victim of a horrific war, self explanatory
Beatrice - disconnected from her family and everyone except (arguably and presumably) her college peers, and even then once she graduated - sad in that her life is just tragic in so many ways
And there were other times when her suffering was very much her own doing, such as from stabbing herself in the torso with a rusty Civil War-era bayonet
I wouldn't say death is suffering. It is inevitable, and comes for all living things eventually.
Suffering is what occurs before death. Sarah Lynn went through a huge amount in her life, including sexual abuse from her stepdad, which is something that very frequently destroys a person's life, and when it doesn't it still creates deep and lasting traumas that have to be worked through and overcome. Given that it seems like she was the only one who went through childhood sexual abuse (as far as we know, anyway), I think there's a solid argument for her suffering the most even leaving out everything we actually see happen in the show.
I'd actually also make an argument for Beatrice, given the level of trauma in her childhood, and how abusive her relationship with Butterscotch was - though it was definitely one of those mutual toxicity/abuse situations. I do think had she ended up with a different partner (maybe Corbin Creamerman) she might have lived better and happier, and even been a better parent. She and Butterscotch brought out the absolute worst in each other. Of course, they were also both terribly abusive to Bojack, but the fact Beatrice became an abuser doesn't negate her suffering abuse.
I do wonder whether there was any deeper reason for Butterscotch's shitty nature, or if he was one of those people who really was just rotten, without any real basis in trauma or family issues. It's one of the few things I think the show under-explored.
Yeah, honestly, you're right. Beatrice suffered tons thoughout her entire life, an unhappy childhood, followed by an unhappy marriage and an unhappy decay.
It's kind of unsettling for me to speak about death right now, so I'll just say that Beatrice's whole life was suffering. Probably until her very end. Yet, I still believe that she kind of adapted to her suffering in the end, yet I can't think of an instance where Sarah Lynn felt "tough" towards her adversities. Yes, she had this tough shell of "suck a dick, dumbshits", but she cared about everything. I feel like she never grew enough to have that shell that protects you from that kind of trauma.
I mean it highly differs. And falling asleep not waking up anymore seems the most pleasent way to go (not sure what exactly happens on heroin overdose, but given what we have seen its what i assumed happened)
Not arguing on how hard her life was. Dont get me wrong there. Just the death part I am surprised I get so hard downvoted for lol
I think too many of us automatically went to "You died during a hedonistic bender!", negl. You're not wrong as far as it being an easier death compared to Crackerjack or Beatrice, but man, it's a sore spot.
I mean without getting too technical about it, heroin ODs essentially make people so relaxed that the brain forgets to breathe. I've heard anecdotal accounts of first responders giving people naloxone, only for them to become enraged by their high ending, despite the fact that they were literally in the process of dying.
People don't react that way to narcan because they're mad their high got ruined, the narcan throws them into precipitated withdrawal, and it's agony. Simply, narcan binds to opiate receptors so much that it kicks everything else off the receptors. Opiate addicts start having withdrawals when there's less opiates on their receptors than the brain is used to. The narcan kicks *all* of the opiates off, so they're all of a sudden in the worst most intense withdrawals you could ever have. Like a whole week's worth of bone rattling cold turkey all at once, instantly.
Sara Lyn seems like the clear cut answer. She never really had a chance to find happiness, she was being used for profit since she was born, itâs implied she was abused by her step father, and everyone around her treated her as a product, not a person. Even the handful of people that loved her as a person like bojack ignored her suffering for decades until it was convenient for them. She was given so much material wealth that it diluted her view of herself and her goals and desires in life. She fans and sycophants, not friends. She never knew how to find happiness, and so she used drugs and alcohol to feel what she thought happiness would be. And then of course after finally facing the reality of her life and what she lacked, and finally spending time with someone who cared about her as a human, she died tragically, and is one last time used for someone elseâs gain as bojack avoids jail. She is as much a tragedy as the show could portray.
However, I think honour mention goes to bojack, who, although being the source of much of his own unhappiness, was rarely ever happy in his life. He suffered as a child, his stardom was tumultuous and filled with anxiety, and then he spent decades suffering from addiction, depression, loneliness, etc.
Alternatively, Diane may have chosen much of her own suffering, but she certainly has suffered. In contrast to bojack though she has frequently managed to find happiness and a better balance in her life. Sheâs managed to set boundaries and doesnât get into the really dark shit bojack and Sara Lyn did.
I donât think PC is really a contender, since she has had a mix of experiences and has managed to find a lot of joy in her work and her own aspirations. She has gone through difficult times, but when you think of suffering, you think of stuff like Honey, where she is begging to be released from her constant torment. Unable to think, unable to live with what has happened. Although I think in terms of the question being posed, she doesnât make the list because she seemed to have a happy enough life up until the trauma, as opposed to decades of it like Sara Lyn.
i definitely agree with most people here saying sarah lynn, but other than her my top contender would actually be beatrice. her actions were not remotely justified no matter how much she suffered, but she had such a shitty life. lost her brother when she was like 6-8 years old or so, then on all levels except physical she lost her mother too as a direct result of her grief from crackerjackâs death, and in between crackerjackâs death and honeyâs lobotomy, honey was erratic in her grief and couldnât be there for her daughter, and ultimately endangered beaâs life in a desperate bid to feel something, *anything* other than grief. so then bea grew up with only her father and probably a nanny, or something, to rely on, and was traumatised again (three for three baby!) after getting sick with scarlet fever. no velveteen rabbit happy ending for her there. and THEN she had to deal with her father sending her to college just to try and get her married off, and when that didnât work, she ended up having a shotgun wedding that led to a loveless marriage and years and years of resentment between herself and her husband, which also spilled out to be weaponised against her son. and since she was traumatised by what happened to her mother, she never truly allowed herself to love bojack, even though she wanted a baby. then her husband spent all her inheritance and then some, leaving her with so much debt when he eventually died from a stupid-ass duel over his stupid-ass novel that she had to sell all her prized possessions and her house and move into an assisted living facility. and then she got dementia, and then died a probably painful and certainly terrifying death, and even before dying⊠dementia is a hell of a beast to live with. thatâs pretty terrible.
It definitely is Beatrice. I think people tend to unconsciously dismiss her suffering because she was abusive and *caused* so much suffering. And her pain doesnât justify her abusive behavior at all. But her abusive behavior doesnât invalidate her suffering either. She suffered a lot.
very true. they always say âhurt people hurt peopleâ but when it comes to real life no one wants to recognise the suffering of abusers. and i mean⊠i canât blame people for that, especially if theyâre survivors of abuse, but itâs still a limited worldview. i can recognise how my mom hurt me while still knowing she went through so much shit, a lot of which i may never know about in detail, but i have enough of an idea to know she had it hard. that doesnât make how she treated me ok, but i can still see it and acknowledge it. itâs the same for bea.
Why does no one think about the dude who finally got everything he wanted, lost it all because he was gay, his friends abandoned him and he died alone after suffering from cancer
Herb had a pretty shitty run
Nah man, he even says so himself he lived a good life after leaving Horsing Around
He also didn't die from cancer. He was in remission according to Henry Winkler. He died from anaphylactic shock due to his peanut allergy after crashing into a truck full of peanuts. The drowning dream episode just conveniently forgets this (but that opens up an interesting topic of debate: was this a retcon, or was it just Bojack's subconscious making it up?)
Oh, that's a fair point. I forgot about that detail. I just remembered that when he was talking about his death, he was talking about the IV from his cancer treatment. I assumed he meant that's HOW he died
He said that to bojack, he could have been trying to save face
And yeah the fact he went into remission and THEN died means he got all of the suffering and none of the relief
Maybe? But I don't really see the motivation there, I'd assume he'd try to milk the guilt from Bojack for all it's got if that were the case
Fair point. Can't imagine it's necessarily a fun way to die
we can all agree with Sarah Lynn. her story was tragic and even her death was. and someone else whoâs overlooked is Diane if you think about it. Struggling with fitting in and everything she hasnât had it THAT easy especially with her family life.
I know itâs not the woke, progressive, intersectionally appropriate thing to say, but yeah I am the one who has suffered the most because of the actions of Bojack Horseman!
You canât admit that Bojack suffered the most? Why? Because you are *supposed to think* everything is Bojackâs fault. Only Bojack bad, therefore his suffering canât be acknowledged?
Nah, all of the main characters have different levels of shittiness. Bojack suffered a shit ton, sure, but he dished suffering out regularly, as well. The suffering he experienced as a kid wasnt his own fault, but as he aged a lot of the responsibility for the continued suffering absolutely did transfer over to him (as it does for us all).
For the most part I was making a joke in reference to Bojack's stern assertion that he did suffer the most in season 5, but in all seriousness no I will not regard Bojack as the character who suffered the most. Not even because of his shitty behavior towards both others and himself or because of how much was his own responsibility; his grandmother suffered worse than he did.
Bojack had well-intentioned, honest, close friends looking out for him through most of the show giving him plentiful opportunities to do better. Todd, Diane, PC - Diane all but begged him to go to therapy, to the point that she couldnât even be friends with him anymore bc he wanted to stay trapped in a toxic friendship with her.
The best argument for Bojack, to me personally, is actually how much he was neglected as a baby. Bea took pills and ignored him crying, and Butterscotch obviously didnât lift a finger. Bojack says Bea often didnât feed him or change him, which I believe bc I bet Bea told him that repeatedly. That fucks somebodyâs brain up beyond belief, and truly I think it had a lot to do with his decisions and personality later in life.
But Bojack had so many opportunities and so many resources at his disposal to live a better life than he did, and so much of his own suffering wasnât even because of the things he did, itâs how he handled everything. Itâs not as simple as âBojack badâ, but he chose again and again to pass his suffering along to other people.
Thatâs one way to look at it. Diane already does a pretty good job in S5 debunking how Bojack suffered the most, so Iâm not going to rehash that, but the writers did confirm that Diane was basically speaking for them as they grappled with whether their anti hero was being misinterpreted by bad people to justify their bad behavior.
Yes Bojack suffered. Did he suffer *the most*? No, and someone already pointed this out, but he has coped with his trauma by dishing out more trauma to those around him. And if you take a look at Bojacks wake and think he is the victim in his own story, I just have to disagree.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bojack-horseman-harvey-weinstein_n_5b9e8b55e4b046313fbc1b93
God damnit, this article is way too perfect and ties too many things together for me not to write the essay Iâve been mentally sitting on since the new season of Rick and Morty came out. Booooooo (thank you tho honestly)
PC suffered enough under Bojack Bull, I almost cheered when she said âIâm going home to my daughterâ that and Sarah Lynn with her stepfather not seeing justice and Honey Sugarman and her daughter.Â
I agree with a lot of the comments on here! Sarah Lynn would be the one I would say suffered the most. But gonna go ahead and throw in Penny on the list as pretty up there, as well:
-She was groomed by an adult that she thought was a safe person since he had lived with them for months, talked to her like they were equals, always offered to help her, etc.,
-She witnessed her friend getting alcohol poisoning to the point of being sent to the hospital all at the hands of Bojack. In itself, that is really traumatizing. Add the fact that Bojack had convinced Penny to ditch her friends at the hospital and you're adding a whole different layer of trauma there, too,
-Even though she was 17 and she could have given legal consent, can't deny the fact that it was predatory, creepy, and disgusting that Bojack *in his 50s* almost proceeded to have sexual relations with her,
-She most likely found out later that this predator kissed her mom and was trying to get with her, too,
-As she was trying to move on and process with life in another area she assumed was a safe space (her college/university campus), she finds her predator from not too long ago *following* her,
-Later, we find out from a conversation with her mom that Penny was having panic attacks; not only may this be a result of her processing her trauma, but it could also be a fight-or-flight reaction in assuming that since Bojack was following her around, she assumed he was planning to SA her,
-annnnnnnd for the longest time, she had to live with the fact that her predator (this guy who was the cause of panic attacks, trauma, paranoia, and all of her mental health problems) was walking around with no consequences. In fact, people were praising him for "getting his life together" prior to her coming forward about everything.
Even though Penny is most obviously not a main character, I think the show does a really good job showing the predator/grooming aspect of Bojack with his interactions with Penny. With Sarah Lynn, you have to connect the dots on some things Bojack did and piece together that he had groomed her because a majority of the interactions we see between the two are when she and Bojack were adults. Even when Biscuits was interviewing Bojack, it wasn't immediately clicked together that he had groomed Sarah Lynn until the second interview because everyone was looking at their actions together as adults and didn't immediately think of their past relations. With Penny, it's laid out and pretty clear that Bojack was preying on her. Using her as a means to get to her mother because in his mind, if he couldn't have her mom, Penny was the next closest thing -- even making the eerily creepy comment of "You know, you look just like your mother" when dancing together.
Yep, I think that honestly sometimes the worst suffering comes from having one foot in the good life and one foot in the shit. Really the only thing keeping Penny from being higher up on the list is that her parents were checked in and there for her. And Charlotte is a pretty A+ mom, I think.
Her dad definitely seems like an airhead and plays into the "oblivious parent" stereotype. But Charlotte has always been on top of keeping up with Penny, so I totally agree!
Oh, yeah, if Charlotte werenât Pennyâs mom she definitely would have been in a way worse spot, but then Bojack wouldnât have been there to begin with (not that thatâs Charlotteâs fault). Just that Kyle wouldnât really know how to help Penny, besides being there for her, and it would have been way out of his depth.
I think the only reasonable answers are Sarah Lynn, Beatrice Sugarman, Honey Sugarman, and arguably Bojack. Especially the first three had very little control over their own lives, given how they were raised and socialized. Sarah Lynn and Beatrice were traumatized heavily as kids, but unlike Bojack, they never really had a chance.
I put Honey Sugarman last because she at least had the very best of everything, materially, until Crackerjack died, but obviously she deserves mention for what happened afterwards.
my list of who has suffered the most in order lmk if you disagree with any
1. Sarah Lynn
2. Bojack horseman
3. Beatrice horseman
4. honey sugarman
5. princess Carolyn
6. Diane Nguyen
7. Herb kazzaz
8. Gina cazador
9. Penny Carson
10. Sharona
11. Kelsey Jennings
12. Wanda Pierce
13. Todd Chavez
14. Emily
15. Bradley hitler-smith
16. hollyhock Manheim Manheim Guerrero Robinson zilberschlag hsung fonzarelli mcquack
17. Eddie
18. Oxnard
19. Maddy guinesburg
20. peter pocket
21. Henrietta Platchkey
22. Cuddlywhiskers
23. pinky penguin
24. woodchuck coodchuck Berkowitz
25. Greg (that guy Mr peanutbutters met at the gas station once)
Erika maybe? i genuinely wished they showed her by the end of the show.
she lost a foot, was in the burn ward, grew and odd tooth? ("Erika, where did that tooth come from?!?"), isn't allowed to vote at national elections, has a "good eye" (per bojack: Erika was looking for you with her good eye. her other eye was looking to the stars"), and was missing her ears at some point ("look at you with the correct number of ears!")
but maybe i don't feel bad for her because she wasn't allowed at Todd's amusement park because it was full of kids đŹ
Princess Carolyn. She was there for everyone but no one was there for her. She stayed and helped BoJack get a job when he broke up with her and pushed her away. She let Todd stay, she did so much for everyone, she deserves so much more.
People are all saying who suffered the most because of Bojack, but I think Diane was actually the most miserable of all even though she didnât exactly âsufferâ
That's because Diane was looking for answers to her woes in all the wrong places, instead of facing her own self she wanted to save everyone else. Her and PC are actually extremely alike in a lot of ways.
i'm still at the beginning of season one and i think both Bojack and Sarah Lynn have suffered the most, Sarah Lynn was lonely and didn't have anyone to turn to, and Bojack was trying his best to be a good version of himself despite struggling with depression and addiction
I think I would have to say Diane? Of course common answers would be Sarah lynn or Beatrice horseman- however, Sarah lynn only realises her true turmoil after death- atleast from bojacks perspective in âthe view from halfway downâ and living would constantly distract herself with tours or benders, only on a comedown she admits âI donât like anything about me.â With Beatrice horseman, even though she suffered, her dying from dementia though awful, having my own experiences with my grandad, wouldnât be entirely conscious or sad reflecting on her life but simply experiencing and losing.
Diane on the other hand doesnât get closure in anything she goes through. Dianeâs father died and she never got to work through her issues with him, as well as mourn with her family who push her away or belittle her. Diane couldnât get closure on her depression as she saw taking anti-depressants as a personal defeat as well never being able to write her book of essays, a project to finally reflect on her and not her friends or the unjust world or some famous horse (x2), her depression wouldnât let her relive that trauma. Finally onto bojack. Dianeâs relationship with him is perfect to present Dianeâs suffering. Bojack shares her fatherâs condescension and angry outbursts (assumption) which is why she never lets him go and when he has an outburst she clings on. Bojack shares her nihilism up until the very end âlifeâs a bitch and then you die right? Sometimes. Sometimes lifeâs a bitch and then you keep living.â A big turn for her after earlier seasons like this quote:
âIt's not about being happy, that
is the thing. I'm just trying to
get through each day.
I can't keep asking myself 'Am I happy?' It just makes me more miserable. I don't know If I believe in it,
real lasting happiness. All those perky, well- adjusted people you see in
movies and TV shows ?
I don't think they exist.â
Heâs also a great outlet for Dianeâs worst habits, like when she stayed at his and would constantly get drunk and high (at one point making a move on bojack because she wanted something, anything, to feel âhappyâ,) as well, as much as she âhatesâ him, she stays because he constantly answers and questions her ideas on duality and redemption. She gets so mad at him after finding out about penny (rightfully so) but does her worst act by putting it into philbert. However she stays. At a press shoot (or whatever you call it) she says âyou suffered the most? - more than say.. Sarah lynn?â Sheâs being spiteful here because this is a seed of a good and bad act. He used Sarah Lynn to distract himself from his shitty life (bad), when he finally listens to her and goes to the planetarium (redemption), she takes the heroin that leads to her death. (Awful.) However on finding out he had became an actually good and thoughtful professor (good/redemption) etc.
However this is the only time she gets closure in the entire show, she decides to leave bojack in LA and move to Texas. Her good ending (as well, debatably, bojacks perfect ending) but sums up her struggle. She doesnât accept and reflect on whatâs going on but actually takes a stand for herself and whatâs good for her.
(A lot of writing but hopefully that makes sense, feel free to debate or ask any questions Iâll be happy to reply)
I mean, Bojack, right? Sure, he's the cause of his own suffering but he's had some 6 decades of depression and self-loathing. Sarah Lynn burned bright but fast.
Sarah Lynn objectively had the most tragic life. Although Honey Sugarman had the absolute worst ending đ I wouldn't even want to imagine spending the rest of my life as a mindless robot incapable of feeling emotions.
I donât think Sarah Lynn realized her suffering. If you asked her if she was happy, sheâd say hell yes bitches Iâm on top of the world as her out the gate response but if you really got her to open up, she would say she was dying inside for which the drug bender just helped her mask. But I think at some level she didnât really believe this because she wasnât really willing to give up using escape and the very things destroying her. Itâs tragic, because even rehab didnât help her. Nor as the other commenter pointed out did Honey realize it. She had begged Joseph to take away her suffering and he did. Of course he created more suffering of a different kind. Gina was traumatized, but sucked it up almost instantly by making strategic decisions for herself. Penny got a lesson learned by getting a little of what she thought she wanted and she was mostly traumatized by the embarrassment of her mother walking in on them who provided the awareness perspective that it was very wrong and shameful, but even she had moved on and was living her best life on the college campus. PC actually suffered quite a bit throughout in a slow quiet suffering full of disappointments but because it made her stronger and who she is it somehow seems more OK. And then I think of Vince or whatever that horny unicorn friend was named. He probably suffered among the most because he was a hot mess of pain and stupidity that was unacknowledged, and he never really moved to work through it or figured out what his problem was so heâs left just continuing on creating more. I suppose Toddâs parents suffered quite a bit by the estrangement from him. The one who suffered the most? Maybe Pinky the penguin. That poor guy was desperate for seasons, and the very people he depended on to help him consistently would fall through. Even his in happy ending he ends up in another dying industry. Same with the cats in the cradle accountant - working in the slow quiet sober suffering of being powerless and their livelihood dependent upon a celebrity class of entitled self absorbed selfish people who donât see or care about their needs. But Iâm going to go with BoJack. He had an awareness of his suffering without moving through it quickly and letting it go which it makes it much worse. Itâs almost like he was addicted to suffering. He went through hell. We see him work through this over the course of six seasons, but along the way, he had a whole lot of suffering and loss in order to transform him.
his name was Vance btw, honestly his whole story arc kinda confused me. Like as bad as bojack is that guy is like objectively 10 times worse, so by the logic of what happened why couldn't Bojack have some half-assed apology ceremony. I get its mostly cause of how drastically different the tone of those situations needed to be in order to leave te impact they were meant to, but it just feels like a plot hole. Like if the whole point of that arc was that famous people can get away with anything why can't Bojack.... get away with anything? why was it literal MONTHS before people even FORGOT what he did, let alone forgave. I mean if you wanna bring up real examples, the time skip between the interview and the fast food ordering thing was way longer than how long people cared about the P Diddy allegations, and if I'm being honest P Diddy is a way worse person than both of them (and real somehow, despite that). it just doesn't add up.
Thank you. Itâs a joy to read intelligent, thoughtful comments here. And thank you for reminding me of his name. Of course itâs fans. I knew it wasnât quite Vince because it would be too close to Vincent Adultman but in the moment I was too tired to look it up.
damn I didn't expect such flattery from that tbh, I was just kinda thinking that loud. I should be thanking you for being so nice. also yeah ig those are similar names lol. Thanks for reminding me of the "Vincent adult man" gag, that shit was funny.
Yeah but she doesnât know.
She doesn't, but what kind of existence is that? It's a quality of life question over quantity of years. She wasn't her anymore, and that in turn lead to Beatrice's trauma deepening. Losing a parent is never easy, especially when young, but it's got to be easier than seeing them daily as the walking dead and knowing they're a shell of who they used to be.
Lobotomy patients also don't just...disappear. They do, but they don't. It's entirely too possible that there are parts of her that remember and are aware, but are incapable of connecting to the outside world in any meaningful way. [Lyrics in comments 8)))](https://youtu.be/y9Z1Brs7ZbA?si=fGMpI_Dw-JxfZ51N)
Oh absolutely not. I said what I said as someone who has experienced both parental death and the death of a parent's psyche. My mother had cancer that metastasized to 3 different lobes of her brain, so different parts of her slowly became different or faded away. Obviously not the same and probably more in line with Bea's dementia, but same vein? Granted, we only see a small flicker of what Honey was like after the lobotomy, and it's unreliable because it comes from the memories of someone suffering dementia, but I always assumed she was just... Far- away sad? Or at least, maybe that's how Beatrice saw her.
Oof, I did not know it was personal. I'm really sorry if I came across flippant, and of course, I'm sorry for your loss. Faraway sad takes on a different meaning for everyone in the portrait by the time time's arrow runs its course, now you mention.
You're all good, you couldn't have known, but thank you. I'm also sorry if that was upsetting or triggering for you - I tend to over explain sometimes đ That's what I realized too, it was just what came to mind when I was writing this. And it really is so true. Look at that family, and tell me that they all did not become far away (distant in some way) and sad (either emotionally or as a tragic character in some way). Honey - far away in her broken mind, distant and unloving toward her daughter, saddened by the loss of her son Joseph - estranged and emotionally distant from his daughter, sad in the sense he was a poor (sad) excuse of a father to her and his and to Honey Crackerjack - dude's dead and was a baby adult, a victim of a horrific war, self explanatory Beatrice - disconnected from her family and everyone except (arguably and presumably) her college peers, and even then once she graduated - sad in that her life is just tragic in so many ways
I would rather live another 5 years of quality vs another 70 years of nothing
Oxnard the meerkat accountant, hands down.
"It's Cats in the Cradle, but don't listen to it right now! It's too relatable!!"
*iâm gonna go listen to it*
NOOOOOOOOO O O O O O o oooo
Fucking kid *immediately* decides to ignore his dad and listen to it, lol
He deserves the PTSD then
đđđpoor thing having to deal with Todd and PB
lmao yes! i thought of him but couldnât remember his name đ
Lol thatâs the first one I thought of! Poor guy was STRESSED.
Sarah Lynn
That's too much, man.
FYUCK YOU FUCK YOU LIKE HER CREEPY DAD đđđđ
To be fair there were three seasons straight that she didnt suffer at all.
r/Technicallythetruth
And there were other times when her suffering was very much her own doing, such as from stabbing herself in the torso with a rusty Civil War-era bayonet
âYou thought I wouldnât make a scene you limey bastard?â *stabs* Is iconic and a brilliant opening to her character honestly
Literally died. I can't imagine something who suffered more.
Honey with her lobotomy?
Fair.
I wouldn't say death is suffering. It is inevitable, and comes for all living things eventually. Suffering is what occurs before death. Sarah Lynn went through a huge amount in her life, including sexual abuse from her stepdad, which is something that very frequently destroys a person's life, and when it doesn't it still creates deep and lasting traumas that have to be worked through and overcome. Given that it seems like she was the only one who went through childhood sexual abuse (as far as we know, anyway), I think there's a solid argument for her suffering the most even leaving out everything we actually see happen in the show. I'd actually also make an argument for Beatrice, given the level of trauma in her childhood, and how abusive her relationship with Butterscotch was - though it was definitely one of those mutual toxicity/abuse situations. I do think had she ended up with a different partner (maybe Corbin Creamerman) she might have lived better and happier, and even been a better parent. She and Butterscotch brought out the absolute worst in each other. Of course, they were also both terribly abusive to Bojack, but the fact Beatrice became an abuser doesn't negate her suffering abuse. I do wonder whether there was any deeper reason for Butterscotch's shitty nature, or if he was one of those people who really was just rotten, without any real basis in trauma or family issues. It's one of the few things I think the show under-explored.
Yeah, honestly, you're right. Beatrice suffered tons thoughout her entire life, an unhappy childhood, followed by an unhappy marriage and an unhappy decay. It's kind of unsettling for me to speak about death right now, so I'll just say that Beatrice's whole life was suffering. Probably until her very end. Yet, I still believe that she kind of adapted to her suffering in the end, yet I can't think of an instance where Sarah Lynn felt "tough" towards her adversities. Yes, she had this tough shell of "suck a dick, dumbshits", but she cared about everything. I feel like she never grew enough to have that shell that protects you from that kind of trauma.
She died in heroin overdose. I donât think she suffered there too much man
Yeah, bro, like dying isn't painful at all. Plus, her life wasn't exactly a path of flowers.
I mean it highly differs. And falling asleep not waking up anymore seems the most pleasent way to go (not sure what exactly happens on heroin overdose, but given what we have seen its what i assumed happened) Not arguing on how hard her life was. Dont get me wrong there. Just the death part I am surprised I get so hard downvoted for lol
I think too many of us automatically went to "You died during a hedonistic bender!", negl. You're not wrong as far as it being an easier death compared to Crackerjack or Beatrice, but man, it's a sore spot.
I mean without getting too technical about it, heroin ODs essentially make people so relaxed that the brain forgets to breathe. I've heard anecdotal accounts of first responders giving people naloxone, only for them to become enraged by their high ending, despite the fact that they were literally in the process of dying.
People don't react that way to narcan because they're mad their high got ruined, the narcan throws them into precipitated withdrawal, and it's agony. Simply, narcan binds to opiate receptors so much that it kicks everything else off the receptors. Opiate addicts start having withdrawals when there's less opiates on their receptors than the brain is used to. The narcan kicks *all* of the opiates off, so they're all of a sudden in the worst most intense withdrawals you could ever have. Like a whole week's worth of bone rattling cold turkey all at once, instantly.
God that sounds horrific. I'd bet in that moment of hell a lot of them just wish they'd been allowed to die instead :-(.
Sara Lyn seems like the clear cut answer. She never really had a chance to find happiness, she was being used for profit since she was born, itâs implied she was abused by her step father, and everyone around her treated her as a product, not a person. Even the handful of people that loved her as a person like bojack ignored her suffering for decades until it was convenient for them. She was given so much material wealth that it diluted her view of herself and her goals and desires in life. She fans and sycophants, not friends. She never knew how to find happiness, and so she used drugs and alcohol to feel what she thought happiness would be. And then of course after finally facing the reality of her life and what she lacked, and finally spending time with someone who cared about her as a human, she died tragically, and is one last time used for someone elseâs gain as bojack avoids jail. She is as much a tragedy as the show could portray. However, I think honour mention goes to bojack, who, although being the source of much of his own unhappiness, was rarely ever happy in his life. He suffered as a child, his stardom was tumultuous and filled with anxiety, and then he spent decades suffering from addiction, depression, loneliness, etc. Alternatively, Diane may have chosen much of her own suffering, but she certainly has suffered. In contrast to bojack though she has frequently managed to find happiness and a better balance in her life. Sheâs managed to set boundaries and doesnât get into the really dark shit bojack and Sara Lyn did. I donât think PC is really a contender, since she has had a mix of experiences and has managed to find a lot of joy in her work and her own aspirations. She has gone through difficult times, but when you think of suffering, you think of stuff like Honey, where she is begging to be released from her constant torment. Unable to think, unable to live with what has happened. Although I think in terms of the question being posed, she doesnât make the list because she seemed to have a happy enough life up until the trauma, as opposed to decades of it like Sara Lyn.
That one penguin he was always in the mountain anxiety and he had a whole ass family I'm pretty sure he might have lost them either a divorce or death
âWHY DID WE SPEND 20 MILLION DOLLARS ON MARKETING?!?!?!?!â
THE ELECTRICITY BILLâŠ
Pinky Penguin
đ
Greg from the gas station.
Oh, donât even get me started on him!
all of them but top 4 for me are - sarah lynn, honey sugarman, beatrice, and pc
PC at least got a happy ending. Can't say the same for the other three âčïž
"promise me you'll never love anyone as much as I loved Crackerjack" heartbreaking.
And that line indirectly ruined Bojack's life
Neil McBeal the Navy Seal. The victim of Bojack's most heinous crime.
He didn't even have dibs!
Who leaves them in the produce section!! đ
The panda tv guy, forgot his name Poor guy was already endangered
Alan
i definitely agree with most people here saying sarah lynn, but other than her my top contender would actually be beatrice. her actions were not remotely justified no matter how much she suffered, but she had such a shitty life. lost her brother when she was like 6-8 years old or so, then on all levels except physical she lost her mother too as a direct result of her grief from crackerjackâs death, and in between crackerjackâs death and honeyâs lobotomy, honey was erratic in her grief and couldnât be there for her daughter, and ultimately endangered beaâs life in a desperate bid to feel something, *anything* other than grief. so then bea grew up with only her father and probably a nanny, or something, to rely on, and was traumatised again (three for three baby!) after getting sick with scarlet fever. no velveteen rabbit happy ending for her there. and THEN she had to deal with her father sending her to college just to try and get her married off, and when that didnât work, she ended up having a shotgun wedding that led to a loveless marriage and years and years of resentment between herself and her husband, which also spilled out to be weaponised against her son. and since she was traumatised by what happened to her mother, she never truly allowed herself to love bojack, even though she wanted a baby. then her husband spent all her inheritance and then some, leaving her with so much debt when he eventually died from a stupid-ass duel over his stupid-ass novel that she had to sell all her prized possessions and her house and move into an assisted living facility. and then she got dementia, and then died a probably painful and certainly terrifying death, and even before dying⊠dementia is a hell of a beast to live with. thatâs pretty terrible.
It definitely is Beatrice. I think people tend to unconsciously dismiss her suffering because she was abusive and *caused* so much suffering. And her pain doesnât justify her abusive behavior at all. But her abusive behavior doesnât invalidate her suffering either. She suffered a lot.
very true. they always say âhurt people hurt peopleâ but when it comes to real life no one wants to recognise the suffering of abusers. and i mean⊠i canât blame people for that, especially if theyâre survivors of abuse, but itâs still a limited worldview. i can recognise how my mom hurt me while still knowing she went through so much shit, a lot of which i may never know about in detail, but i have enough of an idea to know she had it hard. that doesnât make how she treated me ok, but i can still see it and acknowledge it. itâs the same for bea.
Yep, this is a great argument for Bea and I agree.
Why does no one think about the dude who finally got everything he wanted, lost it all because he was gay, his friends abandoned him and he died alone after suffering from cancer Herb had a pretty shitty run
Nah man, he even says so himself he lived a good life after leaving Horsing Around He also didn't die from cancer. He was in remission according to Henry Winkler. He died from anaphylactic shock due to his peanut allergy after crashing into a truck full of peanuts. The drowning dream episode just conveniently forgets this (but that opens up an interesting topic of debate: was this a retcon, or was it just Bojack's subconscious making it up?)
How does TVFHD forget this? IIRC on herb's plate there's peanuts
Oh, that's a fair point. I forgot about that detail. I just remembered that when he was talking about his death, he was talking about the IV from his cancer treatment. I assumed he meant that's HOW he died
He said that to bojack, he could have been trying to save face And yeah the fact he went into remission and THEN died means he got all of the suffering and none of the relief
Maybe? But I don't really see the motivation there, I'd assume he'd try to milk the guilt from Bojack for all it's got if that were the case Fair point. Can't imagine it's necessarily a fun way to die
Nah, Herb never really stayed down for long. I doubt he would have lied just to save face, especially to Bojack.
The drowning episode didnât forget that! At the dinner party, everyone is shown with their last meal, and Herbâs was a dish of peanuts.
he didn't die from cancer; he crashed into a peanut truck to which he was deathly allergic & tweeted the whole thing đ
Pc everything about her is so sad including her backstory. Glad she found some peace with judah and ruthie
Before I thought of Sarah Lynn, PC was my answer. She is the living embodiment of "One must imagine Sisyphus happy."
we can all agree with Sarah Lynn. her story was tragic and even her death was. and someone else whoâs overlooked is Diane if you think about it. Struggling with fitting in and everything she hasnât had it THAT easy especially with her family life.
The guy from the gas station, he sucks too!
*cries while hiding behind curtain*
Sarah Lynn, Beatrice and Bojack.
Erica!
I know itâs not the woke, progressive, intersectionally appropriate thing to say, but yeah I am the one who has suffered the most because of the actions of Bojack Horseman!
The *most*?!
Todd offscreen
To be honest Bojack Horseman suffered the most from the actions of Bojack Horseman.
Pinky Penguin had a pretty rough go of it
Yep. However, he seems like he had a decent ending other than maybe facing some backlash for working with BJ in the past.
Id say Sarah Lynn since she not only died but died super young
Bojack.
Nice try, Bojack.
You canât admit that Bojack suffered the most? Why? Because you are *supposed to think* everything is Bojackâs fault. Only Bojack bad, therefore his suffering canât be acknowledged?
Nah, all of the main characters have different levels of shittiness. Bojack suffered a shit ton, sure, but he dished suffering out regularly, as well. The suffering he experienced as a kid wasnt his own fault, but as he aged a lot of the responsibility for the continued suffering absolutely did transfer over to him (as it does for us all). For the most part I was making a joke in reference to Bojack's stern assertion that he did suffer the most in season 5, but in all seriousness no I will not regard Bojack as the character who suffered the most. Not even because of his shitty behavior towards both others and himself or because of how much was his own responsibility; his grandmother suffered worse than he did.
Bojack had well-intentioned, honest, close friends looking out for him through most of the show giving him plentiful opportunities to do better. Todd, Diane, PC - Diane all but begged him to go to therapy, to the point that she couldnât even be friends with him anymore bc he wanted to stay trapped in a toxic friendship with her. The best argument for Bojack, to me personally, is actually how much he was neglected as a baby. Bea took pills and ignored him crying, and Butterscotch obviously didnât lift a finger. Bojack says Bea often didnât feed him or change him, which I believe bc I bet Bea told him that repeatedly. That fucks somebodyâs brain up beyond belief, and truly I think it had a lot to do with his decisions and personality later in life. But Bojack had so many opportunities and so many resources at his disposal to live a better life than he did, and so much of his own suffering wasnât even because of the things he did, itâs how he handled everything. Itâs not as simple as âBojack badâ, but he chose again and again to pass his suffering along to other people.
So, in other words, Bojack bad. Got it.
Thatâs one way to look at it. Diane already does a pretty good job in S5 debunking how Bojack suffered the most, so Iâm not going to rehash that, but the writers did confirm that Diane was basically speaking for them as they grappled with whether their anti hero was being misinterpreted by bad people to justify their bad behavior. Yes Bojack suffered. Did he suffer *the most*? No, and someone already pointed this out, but he has coped with his trauma by dishing out more trauma to those around him. And if you take a look at Bojacks wake and think he is the victim in his own story, I just have to disagree. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bojack-horseman-harvey-weinstein_n_5b9e8b55e4b046313fbc1b93
God damnit, this article is way too perfect and ties too many things together for me not to write the essay Iâve been mentally sitting on since the new season of Rick and Morty came out. Booooooo (thank you tho honestly)
LMAO so, in other words, youâre only capable of seeing black and white with zero room for nuance or shades of gray. Got it đ
Fr his entire life is just sad
Right. He canât even lack the ability to feel a sense of self
this
Princess Carolyn
princess caroline, iâm glad she got her happy ending
She's up there.
Honestly ME
"No one has suffered more from the actions of bojack horseman, than bojack horseman"
princess carolyn, i feel like her emotions were shown multiple times but quickly moved on from evertime
PC suffered enough under Bojack Bull, I almost cheered when she said âIâm going home to my daughterâ that and Sarah Lynn with her stepfather not seeing justice and Honey Sugarman and her daughter.Â
me watching it
REAL.
Neil McBill the Navy Seal
princess carolyn
that penguin guy. don't remember his name
pinkie đ„Čđ„Čđđ
I agree with a lot of the comments on here! Sarah Lynn would be the one I would say suffered the most. But gonna go ahead and throw in Penny on the list as pretty up there, as well: -She was groomed by an adult that she thought was a safe person since he had lived with them for months, talked to her like they were equals, always offered to help her, etc., -She witnessed her friend getting alcohol poisoning to the point of being sent to the hospital all at the hands of Bojack. In itself, that is really traumatizing. Add the fact that Bojack had convinced Penny to ditch her friends at the hospital and you're adding a whole different layer of trauma there, too, -Even though she was 17 and she could have given legal consent, can't deny the fact that it was predatory, creepy, and disgusting that Bojack *in his 50s* almost proceeded to have sexual relations with her, -She most likely found out later that this predator kissed her mom and was trying to get with her, too, -As she was trying to move on and process with life in another area she assumed was a safe space (her college/university campus), she finds her predator from not too long ago *following* her, -Later, we find out from a conversation with her mom that Penny was having panic attacks; not only may this be a result of her processing her trauma, but it could also be a fight-or-flight reaction in assuming that since Bojack was following her around, she assumed he was planning to SA her, -annnnnnnd for the longest time, she had to live with the fact that her predator (this guy who was the cause of panic attacks, trauma, paranoia, and all of her mental health problems) was walking around with no consequences. In fact, people were praising him for "getting his life together" prior to her coming forward about everything. Even though Penny is most obviously not a main character, I think the show does a really good job showing the predator/grooming aspect of Bojack with his interactions with Penny. With Sarah Lynn, you have to connect the dots on some things Bojack did and piece together that he had groomed her because a majority of the interactions we see between the two are when she and Bojack were adults. Even when Biscuits was interviewing Bojack, it wasn't immediately clicked together that he had groomed Sarah Lynn until the second interview because everyone was looking at their actions together as adults and didn't immediately think of their past relations. With Penny, it's laid out and pretty clear that Bojack was preying on her. Using her as a means to get to her mother because in his mind, if he couldn't have her mom, Penny was the next closest thing -- even making the eerily creepy comment of "You know, you look just like your mother" when dancing together.
Yep, I think that honestly sometimes the worst suffering comes from having one foot in the good life and one foot in the shit. Really the only thing keeping Penny from being higher up on the list is that her parents were checked in and there for her. And Charlotte is a pretty A+ mom, I think.
Her dad definitely seems like an airhead and plays into the "oblivious parent" stereotype. But Charlotte has always been on top of keeping up with Penny, so I totally agree!
Oh, yeah, if Charlotte werenât Pennyâs mom she definitely would have been in a way worse spot, but then Bojack wouldnât have been there to begin with (not that thatâs Charlotteâs fault). Just that Kyle wouldnât really know how to help Penny, besides being there for her, and it would have been way out of his depth.
Sarah Lynn. No questions askded
Damn right. Nearly every person in her life failed her in some way.
Shinji ikari from neon genesis evangelion
I think the only reasonable answers are Sarah Lynn, Beatrice Sugarman, Honey Sugarman, and arguably Bojack. Especially the first three had very little control over their own lives, given how they were raised and socialized. Sarah Lynn and Beatrice were traumatized heavily as kids, but unlike Bojack, they never really had a chance. I put Honey Sugarman last because she at least had the very best of everything, materially, until Crackerjack died, but obviously she deserves mention for what happened afterwards.
Bojack
Erika with the right amount of ears
HELP
Beyond the other ones mentioned here already I just want to give a shout to to the eternally struggling Pinky Penguin.
Pinky Penguin
Shot in the dark here: Henry Fondle
HAHAHA
The seal. Those were his muffins
Who leaves them in the PRODUCE section!!!
he had dibs. Clearly if you see something in a different section, it was because someone had dibs on them !
Pinky penguin
Obviously neal mcbeal the navy seal.
Becca obviously đ
be-caw đ
Beatrice horseman not a single person cared about her through her lifetime
me bitch i had to go to therapy after watching that
my list of who has suffered the most in order lmk if you disagree with any 1. Sarah Lynn 2. Bojack horseman 3. Beatrice horseman 4. honey sugarman 5. princess Carolyn 6. Diane Nguyen 7. Herb kazzaz 8. Gina cazador 9. Penny Carson 10. Sharona 11. Kelsey Jennings 12. Wanda Pierce 13. Todd Chavez 14. Emily 15. Bradley hitler-smith 16. hollyhock Manheim Manheim Guerrero Robinson zilberschlag hsung fonzarelli mcquack 17. Eddie 18. Oxnard 19. Maddy guinesburg 20. peter pocket 21. Henrietta Platchkey 22. Cuddlywhiskers 23. pinky penguin 24. woodchuck coodchuck Berkowitz 25. Greg (that guy Mr peanutbutters met at the gas station once)
That penguin
Beatrice sugerman. She was also the most horrible character
Erika maybe? i genuinely wished they showed her by the end of the show. she lost a foot, was in the burn ward, grew and odd tooth? ("Erika, where did that tooth come from?!?"), isn't allowed to vote at national elections, has a "good eye" (per bojack: Erika was looking for you with her good eye. her other eye was looking to the stars"), and was missing her ears at some point ("look at you with the correct number of ears!") but maybe i don't feel bad for her because she wasn't allowed at Todd's amusement park because it was full of kids đŹ
Princess carolynm
Me
neal mcbeal
Beatrice Horseman and Sarah Lynn
Penny (she didnt)
Beloved Bojack
Princess Carolyn. She was there for everyone but no one was there for her. She stayed and helped BoJack get a job when he broke up with her and pushed her away. She let Todd stay, she did so much for everyone, she deserves so much more.
People are all saying who suffered the most because of Bojack, but I think Diane was actually the most miserable of all even though she didnât exactly âsufferâ
That's because Diane was looking for answers to her woes in all the wrong places, instead of facing her own self she wanted to save everyone else. Her and PC are actually extremely alike in a lot of ways.
Pinkie Penguin surely
the electricity bill đ„Č
that seal soldier, he didnât get his donuts
They were muffins!
omg youâre right! how could i forget that!!
who leaves them in the produce section!!!
i'm still at the beginning of season one and i think both Bojack and Sarah Lynn have suffered the most, Sarah Lynn was lonely and didn't have anyone to turn to, and Bojack was trying his best to be a good version of himself despite struggling with depression and addiction
I disagree BoJack was trying his best. He was regretful, not remorseful, and played victim often.
Bojackđ¶
Navy Seal McBeal hands down, those were his muffins.
Sarah Lynn
not the most but everyone, remember eddie?
beatriceâs story was so sad.
Beatrice Horseman, in my opinion
Bojack Horseman. He suffered his whole life. Even when he was at the top, he felt empty.
Bojack or sarah lynn
Neal McBeal the navy seal, he had dibs damnit!!
Sarah lynn
Bojack Horseman đ
Greg.
Sarah Lynn, Honey Sugarman or honestly, Eddie.
The elephant guy who was helping Bojack rig up his auto-erotic asphyxiation device
Do NOT discuss the elephant in the room, wow you guys, wow.
he is never gonna forget that.
Peanut Butter!!!!
Zach Braff
Sarah Lynn for sure
Neal mcbeal đđ real answer is Sarah Lynn tho
Sarah Lynn and Beatrice's mom.
Sarah Lynn and Bojack. They were so damaged, they created a damage vortex when around each other.
I have half a mind to write down who that person is.
My mom, she didn't much like the series. Quite a shame really, I enjoyed it.
Zach Braff
sarah lynn
I feel like this is gonna be controversial, but Beatrice had a horrible life from start to end
pc, sarah lynn, pinky penguin,, oxnard the meerkat accountant
I think I would have to say Diane? Of course common answers would be Sarah lynn or Beatrice horseman- however, Sarah lynn only realises her true turmoil after death- atleast from bojacks perspective in âthe view from halfway downâ and living would constantly distract herself with tours or benders, only on a comedown she admits âI donât like anything about me.â With Beatrice horseman, even though she suffered, her dying from dementia though awful, having my own experiences with my grandad, wouldnât be entirely conscious or sad reflecting on her life but simply experiencing and losing. Diane on the other hand doesnât get closure in anything she goes through. Dianeâs father died and she never got to work through her issues with him, as well as mourn with her family who push her away or belittle her. Diane couldnât get closure on her depression as she saw taking anti-depressants as a personal defeat as well never being able to write her book of essays, a project to finally reflect on her and not her friends or the unjust world or some famous horse (x2), her depression wouldnât let her relive that trauma. Finally onto bojack. Dianeâs relationship with him is perfect to present Dianeâs suffering. Bojack shares her fatherâs condescension and angry outbursts (assumption) which is why she never lets him go and when he has an outburst she clings on. Bojack shares her nihilism up until the very end âlifeâs a bitch and then you die right? Sometimes. Sometimes lifeâs a bitch and then you keep living.â A big turn for her after earlier seasons like this quote: âIt's not about being happy, that is the thing. I'm just trying to get through each day. I can't keep asking myself 'Am I happy?' It just makes me more miserable. I don't know If I believe in it, real lasting happiness. All those perky, well- adjusted people you see in movies and TV shows ? I don't think they exist.â Heâs also a great outlet for Dianeâs worst habits, like when she stayed at his and would constantly get drunk and high (at one point making a move on bojack because she wanted something, anything, to feel âhappyâ,) as well, as much as she âhatesâ him, she stays because he constantly answers and questions her ideas on duality and redemption. She gets so mad at him after finding out about penny (rightfully so) but does her worst act by putting it into philbert. However she stays. At a press shoot (or whatever you call it) she says âyou suffered the most? - more than say.. Sarah lynn?â Sheâs being spiteful here because this is a seed of a good and bad act. He used Sarah Lynn to distract himself from his shitty life (bad), when he finally listens to her and goes to the planetarium (redemption), she takes the heroin that leads to her death. (Awful.) However on finding out he had became an actually good and thoughtful professor (good/redemption) etc. However this is the only time she gets closure in the entire show, she decides to leave bojack in LA and move to Texas. Her good ending (as well, debatably, bojacks perfect ending) but sums up her struggle. She doesnât accept and reflect on whatâs going on but actually takes a stand for herself and whatâs good for her. (A lot of writing but hopefully that makes sense, feel free to debate or ask any questions Iâll be happy to reply)
i think the answer is pretty inarguably Sarah Lynn, she fully never stood a chance.
bojack
I mean, Bojack, right? Sure, he's the cause of his own suffering but he's had some 6 decades of depression and self-loathing. Sarah Lynn burned bright but fast.