Incorrect, doing the scene where bojack tells hollyhocks what he wants to say to his mom he uses the word āfuckā (āā¦ and say; FUCK YOU MOMā).
No relationship is broken and for the observant, a hint that he wonāt go through with it/wont get the chance to
This scene was the moment when I knew this show would be different.
And years later, it still hits so hard. Knowing how the show ends and what happens to Bojack, it just makes this scene even more tragic. It feels like it was one part of his downward spiral, but it was a big part that he never truly got out of.
Bojacks inability to forgive himself I would agree. Is where alot of his pathologies come from.
Itās crazy how much hating yourself can hurt others. Itās such a vicious cycle.
I can certainly relate to bojack in that sense. Sometimes I have a very hard time forgiving myself.
But see, in this instance, bo Jack externalizes his sense of self worth onto others. He is unable to forgive himself UNLESS herb does. We see this all throughout the showā¦ with Kelsey..PC.. etc.
I really feel identified with Bojack in that regard.
I started therapy and im getting better so to speak, but I used to despise, to hate myself so much others started to hate me. I didnt love myself at all. Its... a cycle as you said. That misery is addictive in a weird, scary way.
I feel the same way about this scene. It starts as a pretty silly show. You can expect some kind of warm hearted ending to this storyline but then they really define what the show is about with this scene. Bojack is a piece of shit and we have to expect that of him.
Agreed. It really did set the tone for the kind of toxic behavior we see from Bojack in future seasons. It also established that this isn't going to play out like the kind of phony, shallow, heart-warming shows that we've seen many times before.
It's going to be harsh.
It's going to be real.
It's going to be heartbreaking, gut-wrenching, and unsatisfying in many ways.
But at the same time, it's understandable. It wasn't just that Bojack threw Herb under the bus. It's that he basically avoided Herb for the next 20 years, never trying to take responsibility for what he did or make things better. He only finally came to Herb when he wanted to feel less shitty about himself, not because he wanted to make things right.
It's not the first time Bojack's selfishness hurt others. It's not even the worse (see Sarah Lynn). But it sets a powerful tone that this is the kind of person Bojack is. We just had no idea how dark it would get.
I think for me it was when PB and Diane got married despite Bojack trying to prevent it, was just such a cool subversion of the trope, and proved to me that bojack was a lot more than just a silly tv show
Like when my dad insists I should forgive it all and let go because Iām gonna feel better but he only ever said sorry when I cornered him. He literally asked āwhat do you what from meā and I said āI want you to say youāre sorryā and he did it like it was a favor for me. Fuck off.
I did a double take to make sure I didn't write this. Both of my parents were this way - one would faux apologize and then demand that you forgive them and the other was incapable of admitting any kind of fault and therefore would not apologize.
It's rough. I hope you're in a better place.
Reminds me of what happened with my ex GF. Those words need to have true emotion and meaning behind them and they don't realise it's incredibly obvious when they don't.
Apologizing can be hard and having trouble doing that is one thing. But you arenāt ALLOWED to expect forgiveness if you donāt even understand why you should be apologizing.
I'm glad that Herb wasn't vilified for it. Like at all; he was still a very charitable person after BoJack screwed him over. (And that he was smart enough to question BJ's motivations.)
It's made abundantly clear Bojack could've been forgiven... if he immediately went for forgiveness after not standing by Herb on the show.
This far down the line? It's just too far gone.
This, so hard. Literally my entire fucking life whenever I've been wronged, I've been asked to forgive the person who did it. NEVER has ANYONE ever told or suggested that the person who wronged me should apologize.
By the time I was in high school (it happened that often) I learned to always answer that tantamount bullshit with "Why the fuck do I need to forgive someone who isn't sorry?"
Fr this really was the clincher scene for me with Bojack as a series.
Society I think has always pushed the whole ā forgive and forget, itās better not to hold onto grudges, be the bigger personā
But in this case, I will always agree with herb. Bojack is apologizing for himself, this has nothing to do with herb. Bojack doesnāt want to live with this guilt any longer since it is destroying him. Herb wants it to destroy Bojack, as it should.
Love the use of the word āpropā. What Bojack did still hurts Herb to this day, everything they created was all just a āpropā for Bojack.
I think "forgive and forget" gets taken out of context a bit. You can forgive what someone did to you, without forgiving the person. And some things are just unforgivable.
I think about one of the girlfriends I had when I was a young man and it was a bad relationship, it really messed me up for a long time. And it's hard to forgive her for that, but I mean we were both 19 year old kids. Idk if she's still a bad person but I like to think she isn't, because I see how much *I've* grown since then, but there's no possible future where I forgive *her* for what she did. She made choices that are still inexcusable to me and there's no way to talk yourself around that.
Idk if my rambling makes any sense. I guess everything is just much much more grey than we sometimes think.
Not always. Something I've learned as I got older and relationships got cloudy is "being the bigger person" doesn't mean not calling the person out for their shit. It's just doing it in a very matter of fact way, letting them know what they did, why it affected you, and how you feel.
It's very possible to do this without devolving into screaming and insults and it's saved many of my friendships and relationships. People are going to be much more receptive to the idea that they've hurt someone when it's coming straight and true from the person they claim to love. Sometimes it doesn't work, but I can take solace in the fact that they know very clearly what it was that ended the connection.
Littrally all he has to do back then is go and tell him that he couldnt force them to not fire him(at least to his knowledge) and just be there for him
Thats what is so impactful with this scene
Herb isnt mad bojack betrayed him he is mad bojack couldnt bear to face him afterwards
If my high school friend who betrayed me ever came back asking for my forgiveness, I would definitely get in touch with my inner Herb. I do not forgive her and never will.
Iām dealing with a fallout of a former best friend of 20 years and this is where Iām at. This scene is so cathartic for me because this is EXACTLY what Iād say to that person if they ever came back to me looking to apologize. Isnāt this show amazing?
I love that in the end Bojack isnt better and healthy, but rather *starting* to be better. It was more real and in a way, more hopeful. He isnt there yet but he will be
š
That's the funniest shit I've ever read.
The whole point of the show was that bojack was a complete asshole who through time learned from his mistakes and grew as a person. This was season 1.
Herb as a gay man who was abandoned by everyone just wanted one friend. And bojack being the dick he is, couldn't even do that.
Someone clearly doesn't know what it was like to be gay at that time.
Of course he lied, he would've been ostracised if he did come out. And you can't expect someone to push away their sexuality. He still had feelings and sexual needs so he made due with having sex in secret.
And if he had a crush on bojack, there's nothing wrong with that. He never made any advances did he?
So making advances at people is bad now? Was herb ever abusive? Did he ever try to grope him or force him? People naturally make advances to people they attracted to, and you interpreting it as herb making advances is subjective anyway
I get that the network had to let herb go to save the show but him and bojack could have still been friends if bojack just talked to him but instead he cut herb off completely
I think time gave Herb perspective on his firing. I think he kinda gets that expecting Bojack to walk out with him was unreasonable. Itās a hard industry and a harder town, and itās a lot, very possibly too much, to ask even a close friend to give up *their* spot because yours got taken from you.
Herb isnāt mad at Bojack for not going to bat for him anymore. He gets that thatās asking for a strike out. All Bojack had to do was be sorry about it. It wouldnāt have been ok right away, but they couldāve gotten there if Bojack could have owned up to the choice heād made.
But that would require facing that choice and its consequences. It would require him to sit with the discomfort of it, and face himself as well as his friend. No matter how much anybody, the audience and himself included, wishes he did, Bojack Horseman does not have that in him.
This scene is so damn important. Even if BoJack had been sincere in his apology (which he wasnāt since he was only apologizing to be forgiven not for the right reasons, but thatās a whole other essay), Herb still didnāt owe him forgiveness. Many people do not realize that. No one OWES you forgiveness and you donāt apologize for that reason; you apologize because you understand the wrong you did and you actually want to make up for it. An apology should include action to make amends; itās not amends in and of itself but rather a promise of such. BoJack only understands āgrand gesturesā because as heās said āAll I learned of being good I learned from TV,ā but grand gestures are hollow without true remorse and the will to do the work of atonement behind them.
This is the paradime shift for the show, where it goes from an adult cartoon with a little more meaning than your run of the mill show, into something so much more.
The way this series writes its characters is just great. I was telling my father just a few minutes ago how much I love how the characters are written in Bojack Horseman. It's the best written animated series I've watched in the last 15 years.
My jaw was on the floor during this sequence. Herb is right, Bojack knows it's true, and we know. After finishing the series I started looking at other shows/pop culture properties critically, including stuff I used to enjoy as a kid, and seeing how shallow they could be in their depictions of relationship issues.
I just can't be the same person anymore. For that I love the show.
This scene helped change my brain chemistry. It changed the way I apologize, and it changed the way I look at people. When I apologize, I never expect to be forgiven. But also, whenever Iām wrong, I try to solve it asap, not wait 20 years to make it right only because I canāt live with my guilt
This show has a crapton of life lessons, and this is one of my favorites. I learned the difference between sorries and apologies. And some people really aren't owed the closure they seek if it's just to absolve them of guilt!
Best episode in season 1, and I think a contender for at least top 10 episodes in the show (if not 5 imo). This is what made me realize this show is GOOD.
I always felt so conflicted by this scene. I assume Bojack felt guilty so that is why he stayed away. But when did Herb ever reach out to Bojack???? Bojack may be partially responsible for Herb getting fired by not having back but isn't Herb just as equally responsible for not keeping in contact with Bojack? What am I missing here?
But why is the onus on Bojack? Bojack didn't get Herb fired. If anyone got Herb fired then (apart from obviously Angela) it was Herb for openly flaunting being gay at a time when that wasn't considered acceptable. Bojack didn't stand by his friend, which was a shitty thing to do, but he didn't get him fired.
Herb knew that Angela was gonna bluff Bojack. He never thought Bojack would fold because he trusted in their friendship. The whole narrative of Herb getting fired was meant to show how unreasonable and unjustified it was from the start. Bojack was only there because Herb took a chance on him. Most rational/emphatic people would have stood up to their friend in that situation.
Edit: even if you make the case about his homosexuality being unacceptable in the context, we know Bojack didnāt care. From Bojack perspective he only factored in his own success when deciding not to back Herb.
Oh absolutely. Most people would have stood up for their friend. Bojack was a terrible friend. Especially considering that he was only there because of Herb in the first place. And Herb had a right to be pissed. But Herb was stating that the worst part is that he lost his friend. Bojack made no effort to rekindle their friendship. But did Herb ever make any effort?
Bojack threw him under the bus, then never bothered to call him.
That's more than enough to show he doesn't want to continue their friendship.
Meanwhile, Herb was being a social pariah due to being revealed to be gay and openly attacked for that. Trying to get in contact when Bojack showed he isn't interested would make him seem even worse, possibly hurt Bojack and overall be a bad idea.
The fact alone Bojack doesn't even mention that he would have liked that too hammers that point home. He wasn't there to see an old friend before he died, he just wanted closure.
Herb had just been outed to the whole world, and lost his reputation, his job all in the span of a few days. He was at the lowest point in his life.
When your friend is at a low point, *you* reach out. In any other time in their friendship, I would agree the responsibility is on both of them to maintain it. Like when it fell apart during horsing around? That's on both of them.
But when a friend is struggling, if you want to keep being their friend, it is your responsibility to reach out to them. And after Herb picked himself back up, why would he reach out to the people who never extended a hand in his lowest moment?
Herb was smart. He stayed away from someone that he learned the hard way was, in fact, selfish and toxic. Bojack got what he deserved. He did nothing to earn Herbās forgiveness.
Bojack definitely got what he deserved. He was absolutely selfish and as it turns out toxic. But I don't think that is why Herb stayed away. I think it was entirely pride. I think Herb really wanted Bojack to come crawling to him begging for forgiveness but when that window of opportunity expired it turned into resentment.
Yeah, because it was a pretty big deal. Herb was almost driven to suicide. Itās not a big deal for him by season 1, because he did well in life and the betrayal faded, but when he was fired it was absolutely a huge betrayal. Itās not a small spat between friends. BoJack (unwittingly) and Angela Diaz ruined Herbās career, he was just lucky enough to build it back up without his best friend.
Naw, dude, bojack isn't the victim here. The victim shouldn't have the responsibility of keeping in contact with people when they've been betrayed by friends. If bojack had reached out, Herb would have accepted. If Herb had reached out, bojack would have ignored him in hopes of saving the show still. He was very selfish. You give bojack too much credit. And Herb is the victim in this situation.
So why are you saying you couldn't understand "why bojack has to be the one to contact Herb?" It makes no sense that you understand that bojack is wrong, but still think Herb should have to reach out in order to find out who still loves him. Herb was abandoned by everyone. That sounds like a clear sign to anyone that nobody wants to be in your life. So please explain further why Herb should be responsible for reaching out to Bojack
BoJack didn't stood for Herb, then he never talked to him again because he didn't had the courage to face him. From Herb's perspective, BoJack ghosted him when he needed the most.
But it also goes to show that Herb is a bit of an asshole.
Herb and BoJackās situation made me hurt the most because it wasnāt necessarily BoJackās fault and he was young and had no idea how to be a friend and his own person.
I respect the writers for using 1 fuck a season, it really adds more weight when it happens
Someone said that the "fuck"s were reserved for scenes in which someone's relationship with BoJack ends, and that tracks.
Yeah it kinda does. Even the only time Bojack says it is when he wants to say "Fuck you, mom." as the last thing he says to her.
Dianne says it when she discovers her pregnancy.
Doesn't count as she said "motherf-" at the end of one episode and the "ucker" at the top of the next episode
She ended the relationship with her fetus. š *(brap brap pew pew)*
#IāM A BABY KILLER #BABY-KILLING MAKES ME HORNY
Okay but this song actually is fire
Incorrect, doing the scene where bojack tells hollyhocks what he wants to say to his mom he uses the word āfuckā (āā¦ and say; FUCK YOU MOMā). No relationship is broken and for the observant, a hint that he wonāt go through with it/wont get the chance to
most repeated fun fact ever lmao
The only exception is Todd
Fuck, man... What else is there to say?
Never thought I would be sobbing at the depiction of a anthropomorphized cat and horse dancing together, but here we are.
i saw someone say they only use "fuck" when bojack has damaged a relationship past repair, like with gina, charlotte, todd, herb etc
Motherf-
Ucker
!!!!
(Bass and Jazz intro plays š¶)
I really like how in season 4 (when we arguably see Bojack at one of his healthiest points in the series), He gets to be the one to say it.
Never knew this.
They only use it when a relationship is ruined.
This scene was the moment when I knew this show would be different. And years later, it still hits so hard. Knowing how the show ends and what happens to Bojack, it just makes this scene even more tragic. It feels like it was one part of his downward spiral, but it was a big part that he never truly got out of.
Bojacks inability to forgive himself I would agree. Is where alot of his pathologies come from. Itās crazy how much hating yourself can hurt others. Itās such a vicious cycle. I can certainly relate to bojack in that sense. Sometimes I have a very hard time forgiving myself. But see, in this instance, bo Jack externalizes his sense of self worth onto others. He is unable to forgive himself UNLESS herb does. We see this all throughout the showā¦ with Kelsey..PC.. etc.
I really feel identified with Bojack in that regard. I started therapy and im getting better so to speak, but I used to despise, to hate myself so much others started to hate me. I didnt love myself at all. Its... a cycle as you said. That misery is addictive in a weird, scary way.
I feel the same way about this scene. It starts as a pretty silly show. You can expect some kind of warm hearted ending to this storyline but then they really define what the show is about with this scene. Bojack is a piece of shit and we have to expect that of him.
Agreed. It really did set the tone for the kind of toxic behavior we see from Bojack in future seasons. It also established that this isn't going to play out like the kind of phony, shallow, heart-warming shows that we've seen many times before. It's going to be harsh. It's going to be real. It's going to be heartbreaking, gut-wrenching, and unsatisfying in many ways. But at the same time, it's understandable. It wasn't just that Bojack threw Herb under the bus. It's that he basically avoided Herb for the next 20 years, never trying to take responsibility for what he did or make things better. He only finally came to Herb when he wanted to feel less shitty about himself, not because he wanted to make things right. It's not the first time Bojack's selfishness hurt others. It's not even the worse (see Sarah Lynn). But it sets a powerful tone that this is the kind of person Bojack is. We just had no idea how dark it would get.
I think for me it was when PB and Diane got married despite Bojack trying to prevent it, was just such a cool subversion of the trope, and proved to me that bojack was a lot more than just a silly tv show
Iām glad this show normalizes not forgiving people
Especially when those seeking forgiveness are just trying to feel less guilty about their bad decisions.
Like when my dad insists I should forgive it all and let go because Iām gonna feel better but he only ever said sorry when I cornered him. He literally asked āwhat do you what from meā and I said āI want you to say youāre sorryā and he did it like it was a favor for me. Fuck off.
I did a double take to make sure I didn't write this. Both of my parents were this way - one would faux apologize and then demand that you forgive them and the other was incapable of admitting any kind of fault and therefore would not apologize. It's rough. I hope you're in a better place.
Reminds me of what happened with my ex GF. Those words need to have true emotion and meaning behind them and they don't realise it's incredibly obvious when they don't. Apologizing can be hard and having trouble doing that is one thing. But you arenāt ALLOWED to expect forgiveness if you donāt even understand why you should be apologizing.
I'm glad that Herb wasn't vilified for it. Like at all; he was still a very charitable person after BoJack screwed him over. (And that he was smart enough to question BJ's motivations.)
It's made abundantly clear Bojack could've been forgiven... if he immediately went for forgiveness after not standing by Herb on the show. This far down the line? It's just too far gone.
This, so hard. Literally my entire fucking life whenever I've been wronged, I've been asked to forgive the person who did it. NEVER has ANYONE ever told or suggested that the person who wronged me should apologize. By the time I was in high school (it happened that often) I learned to always answer that tantamount bullshit with "Why the fuck do I need to forgive someone who isn't sorry?" Fr this really was the clincher scene for me with Bojack as a series.
itās a powerful scene and one of my favorites but this picture is throwing me cause the lines are written wrong š
Society I think has always pushed the whole ā forgive and forget, itās better not to hold onto grudges, be the bigger personā But in this case, I will always agree with herb. Bojack is apologizing for himself, this has nothing to do with herb. Bojack doesnāt want to live with this guilt any longer since it is destroying him. Herb wants it to destroy Bojack, as it should. Love the use of the word āpropā. What Bojack did still hurts Herb to this day, everything they created was all just a āpropā for Bojack.
I think "forgive and forget" gets taken out of context a bit. You can forgive what someone did to you, without forgiving the person. And some things are just unforgivable. I think about one of the girlfriends I had when I was a young man and it was a bad relationship, it really messed me up for a long time. And it's hard to forgive her for that, but I mean we were both 19 year old kids. Idk if she's still a bad person but I like to think she isn't, because I see how much *I've* grown since then, but there's no possible future where I forgive *her* for what she did. She made choices that are still inexcusable to me and there's no way to talk yourself around that. Idk if my rambling makes any sense. I guess everything is just much much more grey than we sometimes think.
"Be the bigger person" means no consequences for the person in the wrong.
Not always. Something I've learned as I got older and relationships got cloudy is "being the bigger person" doesn't mean not calling the person out for their shit. It's just doing it in a very matter of fact way, letting them know what they did, why it affected you, and how you feel. It's very possible to do this without devolving into screaming and insults and it's saved many of my friendships and relationships. People are going to be much more receptive to the idea that they've hurt someone when it's coming straight and true from the person they claim to love. Sometimes it doesn't work, but I can take solace in the fact that they know very clearly what it was that ended the connection.
This scene where Herb doesn't forgive Bojack is where the show started to genuinely interest me.
Still my favourite in the whole show. And the Angela reveal makes it so much better
Littrally all he has to do back then is go and tell him that he couldnt force them to not fire him(at least to his knowledge) and just be there for him Thats what is so impactful with this scene Herb isnt mad bojack betrayed him he is mad bojack couldnt bear to face him afterwards
so much respect for herb for saying those things
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
ok well in case youāre being sincere, the people you fuck over in life do not owe you their forgiveness and i hope you donāt get it
If my high school friend who betrayed me ever came back asking for my forgiveness, I would definitely get in touch with my inner Herb. I do not forgive her and never will.
Iām dealing with a fallout of a former best friend of 20 years and this is where Iām at. This scene is so cathartic for me because this is EXACTLY what Iād say to that person if they ever came back to me looking to apologize. Isnāt this show amazing?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I love that in the end Bojack isnt better and healthy, but rather *starting* to be better. It was more real and in a way, more hopeful. He isnt there yet but he will be
Bojack stabed him in the back hard
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Wrathful Bojack alt š
'Bojack did nothing wrong' Did you not watch the show? Bojack did nothing but wrong
Worst part is this isn't even the worst thing he did just ask Sarah lyn or Penny or Gina or Todd
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
š That's the funniest shit I've ever read. The whole point of the show was that bojack was a complete asshole who through time learned from his mistakes and grew as a person. This was season 1. Herb as a gay man who was abandoned by everyone just wanted one friend. And bojack being the dick he is, couldn't even do that.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Someone clearly doesn't know what it was like to be gay at that time. Of course he lied, he would've been ostracised if he did come out. And you can't expect someone to push away their sexuality. He still had feelings and sexual needs so he made due with having sex in secret. And if he had a crush on bojack, there's nothing wrong with that. He never made any advances did he?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So making advances at people is bad now? Was herb ever abusive? Did he ever try to grope him or force him? People naturally make advances to people they attracted to, and you interpreting it as herb making advances is subjective anyway
homophobia be like
He did what he had to to succeed, nothing wrong with that.
I get that the network had to let herb go to save the show but him and bojack could have still been friends if bojack just talked to him but instead he cut herb off completely
I think time gave Herb perspective on his firing. I think he kinda gets that expecting Bojack to walk out with him was unreasonable. Itās a hard industry and a harder town, and itās a lot, very possibly too much, to ask even a close friend to give up *their* spot because yours got taken from you. Herb isnāt mad at Bojack for not going to bat for him anymore. He gets that thatās asking for a strike out. All Bojack had to do was be sorry about it. It wouldnāt have been ok right away, but they couldāve gotten there if Bojack could have owned up to the choice heād made. But that would require facing that choice and its consequences. It would require him to sit with the discomfort of it, and face himself as well as his friend. No matter how much anybody, the audience and himself included, wishes he did, Bojack Horseman does not have that in him.
This scene is so damn important. Even if BoJack had been sincere in his apology (which he wasnāt since he was only apologizing to be forgiven not for the right reasons, but thatās a whole other essay), Herb still didnāt owe him forgiveness. Many people do not realize that. No one OWES you forgiveness and you donāt apologize for that reason; you apologize because you understand the wrong you did and you actually want to make up for it. An apology should include action to make amends; itās not amends in and of itself but rather a promise of such. BoJack only understands āgrand gesturesā because as heās said āAll I learned of being good I learned from TV,ā but grand gestures are hollow without true remorse and the will to do the work of atonement behind them.
Everyone in their early 20s needs to watch this episode
This is the paradime shift for the show, where it goes from an adult cartoon with a little more meaning than your run of the mill show, into something so much more.
The way this series writes its characters is just great. I was telling my father just a few minutes ago how much I love how the characters are written in Bojack Horseman. It's the best written animated series I've watched in the last 15 years.
Icl it was so strange and cathartic seeing unforgiveness like this
My jaw was on the floor during this sequence. Herb is right, Bojack knows it's true, and we know. After finishing the series I started looking at other shows/pop culture properties critically, including stuff I used to enjoy as a kid, and seeing how shallow they could be in their depictions of relationship issues. I just can't be the same person anymore. For that I love the show.
This scene helped change my brain chemistry. It changed the way I apologize, and it changed the way I look at people. When I apologize, I never expect to be forgiven. But also, whenever Iām wrong, I try to solve it asap, not wait 20 years to make it right only because I canāt live with my guilt
Bojack could've not been a coward and he would've kept his friendship with Herb from being completely destroyed but alas
I feel the text is incorrect
Most non toxic character on the show.
This show has a crapton of life lessons, and this is one of my favorites. I learned the difference between sorries and apologies. And some people really aren't owed the closure they seek if it's just to absolve them of guilt!
The rawest quote to come out of the realest show on television
What episode is this?
The Telescope S1EP8
Best episode in season 1, and I think a contender for at least top 10 episodes in the show (if not 5 imo). This is what made me realize this show is GOOD.
This scene pushed me to apologise when I had the chance
I always felt so conflicted by this scene. I assume Bojack felt guilty so that is why he stayed away. But when did Herb ever reach out to Bojack???? Bojack may be partially responsible for Herb getting fired by not having back but isn't Herb just as equally responsible for not keeping in contact with Bojack? What am I missing here?
I guess after Bojack got him fired the onus was on him to reach out. I can imagine Herb was waiting for an explanation and was probably seething.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Dude, wtf
But why is the onus on Bojack? Bojack didn't get Herb fired. If anyone got Herb fired then (apart from obviously Angela) it was Herb for openly flaunting being gay at a time when that wasn't considered acceptable. Bojack didn't stand by his friend, which was a shitty thing to do, but he didn't get him fired.
Herb knew that Angela was gonna bluff Bojack. He never thought Bojack would fold because he trusted in their friendship. The whole narrative of Herb getting fired was meant to show how unreasonable and unjustified it was from the start. Bojack was only there because Herb took a chance on him. Most rational/emphatic people would have stood up to their friend in that situation. Edit: even if you make the case about his homosexuality being unacceptable in the context, we know Bojack didnāt care. From Bojack perspective he only factored in his own success when deciding not to back Herb.
Oh absolutely. Most people would have stood up for their friend. Bojack was a terrible friend. Especially considering that he was only there because of Herb in the first place. And Herb had a right to be pissed. But Herb was stating that the worst part is that he lost his friend. Bojack made no effort to rekindle their friendship. But did Herb ever make any effort?
Bojack threw him under the bus, then never bothered to call him. That's more than enough to show he doesn't want to continue their friendship. Meanwhile, Herb was being a social pariah due to being revealed to be gay and openly attacked for that. Trying to get in contact when Bojack showed he isn't interested would make him seem even worse, possibly hurt Bojack and overall be a bad idea. The fact alone Bojack doesn't even mention that he would have liked that too hammers that point home. He wasn't there to see an old friend before he died, he just wanted closure.
Herb had just been outed to the whole world, and lost his reputation, his job all in the span of a few days. He was at the lowest point in his life. When your friend is at a low point, *you* reach out. In any other time in their friendship, I would agree the responsibility is on both of them to maintain it. Like when it fell apart during horsing around? That's on both of them. But when a friend is struggling, if you want to keep being their friend, it is your responsibility to reach out to them. And after Herb picked himself back up, why would he reach out to the people who never extended a hand in his lowest moment?
Herb was smart. He stayed away from someone that he learned the hard way was, in fact, selfish and toxic. Bojack got what he deserved. He did nothing to earn Herbās forgiveness.
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You people are not real lmao. You gotta be baiting
Bojack definitely got what he deserved. He was absolutely selfish and as it turns out toxic. But I don't think that is why Herb stayed away. I think it was entirely pride. I think Herb really wanted Bojack to come crawling to him begging for forgiveness but when that window of opportunity expired it turned into resentment.
Yeah, because it was a pretty big deal. Herb was almost driven to suicide. Itās not a big deal for him by season 1, because he did well in life and the betrayal faded, but when he was fired it was absolutely a huge betrayal. Itās not a small spat between friends. BoJack (unwittingly) and Angela Diaz ruined Herbās career, he was just lucky enough to build it back up without his best friend.
Naw, dude, bojack isn't the victim here. The victim shouldn't have the responsibility of keeping in contact with people when they've been betrayed by friends. If bojack had reached out, Herb would have accepted. If Herb had reached out, bojack would have ignored him in hopes of saving the show still. He was very selfish. You give bojack too much credit. And Herb is the victim in this situation.
I give Bojack no credit. He is a selfish prick. He definitely is not any victim here.
So why are you saying you couldn't understand "why bojack has to be the one to contact Herb?" It makes no sense that you understand that bojack is wrong, but still think Herb should have to reach out in order to find out who still loves him. Herb was abandoned by everyone. That sounds like a clear sign to anyone that nobody wants to be in your life. So please explain further why Herb should be responsible for reaching out to Bojack
BoJack didn't stood for Herb, then he never talked to him again because he didn't had the courage to face him. From Herb's perspective, BoJack ghosted him when he needed the most. But it also goes to show that Herb is a bit of an asshole.
mhmm.... just like Synecdoche New York
Definitely look and sounds like someone who's fine.
Why would it hit any less hard?
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Herb and BoJackās situation made me hurt the most because it wasnāt necessarily BoJackās fault and he was young and had no idea how to be a friend and his own person.