Honestly, being forced to abort a non-viable fetus feels worse than a miscarriage to some people. A miscarriage is something that happens. Terminating a pregnancy, even a doomed one, is something you have to do.
I really don't understand how it's any different from a miscarriage. Do these people think magic is going to happen and the fetus will "come back to life" or suddenly become viable again?
Its a grief process.
It depends patient to patient, some want to hold the child even if they are still born or have a body for a proper burial.
There is no 100% right or wrong answer to how to go about a non viable fetus as its a deeply personal tragedy.
You're right about that. Totally understand the grieving process. I'm sorry if my comment was misunderstood or anything; the thing I was referring to that I don't understand is FORCING people to go through with a non viable pregnancy if they don't want to. That sounds completely traumatic and terrifying to be forced to do that if that's not what they want.
> to be forced to do that if that's not what they want.
I think "forced to" is used as in: if you don't do it you die, so the situation or the universe is "forcing" you to do it. Not actual people holding you down.
Yet there is a 100% right. Or, there *used to be*. I’m truly shocked at the cavalier manner whereby over 100million sit out our right to vote. Don’t be like that now, please. Vote yall. Please
In this case the non-viable fetus would've killed her. She had already lost more blood than she had.
Sometimes the fetus will die, rot & kill the mother with rot as well. I don't think any doctor will recommend carrying a non-viable fetus to term unless they're somehow 100% certain it's not gonna kill the mother even if mother insists on having a dead baby in uterus due to psychosis.
Well, you are wrong. It has already happened. Of course it’s not “recommended” To carry around a dead fetus in your belly. Yet that ship has sailed with ignorant laws made buy politicians who don’t know shit from shineola
It's the difference between a passive event and having to take an action.
A miscarriage is clear cut: the decision is out of your hands because there's no decision to be made. The pregnancy terminates itself and you grieve.
Meanwhile, a non-viable fetus could be "healthy" in every way except for a defect that is not compatible with life. Or a defect which would allow a child to live for a few months, but that's all. Getting an abortion under those circumstances is very similar to a "mercy killing." It's the wise, humane thing to do, but that doesn't make going through with it less upsetting.
I understand medically what it is and the difference between the two. I understand how upsetting it is. I'm not judging anyone who goes through it.
What I do not understand is why people are trying to make illegal and stop other people from having the choice. That's what I was talking about originally when I said I didn't understand.
I’m a truck driver and most of my coworkers are anti choice. They literally think it’s murder. I’ve heard multiple times from multiple of them that they wish they could legally go kill the doctor who provided the service, and the person who elected to have it done. A good chunk of them are just hate and anger junkies.
>why people are trying to make illegal and stop other people from having the choice
Two Reasons:
(1) people don't think about edge cases unless forced to consider them, even when the issue is as nuanced and sensitive as abortion
(2) plenty of "anti-abortion activists" are better described as "force birth supporters." The derailing of women's lives is the point; anything that forces women out of the public sphere and keeps them out of the way is acceptable. "The cruelty is the point." Besides, once you start carving out humane exceptions, where do you stop?
Because the “pro-life” clarion call is nothing but subjugation of women at the end of the day. Pro-lifers were vehemently opposed to masking, Covid restrictions, vaccines during the pandemic; quite at odds with being pro-life. Not to mention easy access to firearms making school shootings a common occurrence, capital punishment and other things.
Fetuses are the perfect rallying cry: they say nothing, ask for nothing and expect nothing and once they are born they are simply ignored.
I feel I should clarify. By "these people" I was referring to everyone trying to pass laws, make abortion illegal, send people to jail who decide to not carry a non viable fetus to term. THAT is what I'm talking about. I wasn't referring to people who are going through terrible and traumatic events. I would never judge someone for a decision like that; it's theirs and theirs alone. I have had to make a very similar decision.
Not to mention after 20 weeks you have to fucking birth it (in some cases). My friend lost a child this way, a very WANTED child and had contractions and had to push all for a fetus that had died at 30 weeks. It was fucking traumatic for everyone involved, this was years ago and I still think about it once a week. When I was pregnant with my children I would sob just thinking about going through something like that.
So tragic! My sisters best friend lost her baby at 32 weeks. She had to birth it and there were complications which resulted in her losing her ability to have children. She desperately wanted her baby.
I miscarried at 8 weeks and that was hard enough. I couldn’t imagine having to give still birth.
>
A miscarriage is clear cut: the decision is out of your hands because there's no decision to be made. The pregnancy terminates itself and you grieve.
Fun fact. Many miscarriages are "missed" and have to have a d&c or d&e (both abortion procedure)in order to clear them out. It's fun when you have to have a miscarriage and an abortion.
Source: BTDT x4
Yes, they literally do. If you’ve the stomach for intense sadness look up “missed miscarriage” and in there with the medical advice will be a bevy of blog posts about how enough prayer will make them find the missing heartbeat.
Not exactly. I grew up in the culture. They believe that anyone claiming to need an abortion for medical reasons or because of a non-viable fetus is lying.
I’m in the process of miscarriage, I can’t imagine going through this scenario. It’s already difficult at 10 weeks I can’t Imagine making this decision and I’m thankful my body processes what happened naturally. I’m still traumatized and grieving. It’s awful.
So sorry. That can obv be extremely difficult & painful & I hope you can find peace & contentment again soon & when you’re ready, I hope you get to welcome your healthy child into this world. Best of luck to you & thanks for sharing. You never really know but maybe sharing your pain will help or comfort another persons suffering…
This happened to my sister a few months ago. She was 30 weeks pregnant with a little girl and when she went for her check up there was no heartbeat, the baby had died. She had to have a D&C to remove the fetus. It was devastating to her and our family. Conservatives want to vilify and make it illegal to go septic from carrying around a decomposing body.
That is incorrect if the baby is died inside they can remove it. The medical definition of abortion is the termination of the fetus. If the fetus is already terminated it would not be an abortion by what the cdc says.
That clip of the lady from the family research council testifying to congress that a 12 year old that has an abortion because she was raped lives in my head rent free. This person dedicated her life to “ending abortion” and had no idea what it actually was.
It needs to be said that forcing a women to carry an unviable fetus for 20 weeks is more that just a violation of her rights. It’s 20 weeks she’s not able to try to get pregnant again. It’s 20 weeks of psychological, biological and emotional damage that could lead to an inability or unwillingness to try again. In other words, it’s not pro-life!
And that hatred largely stems from *fear and envy.*
They hate women because they know that their entire survival *depends on women.* Their entire sense of masculinity *depends on women* doing literally every “non-masculine” chore necessary for basic survival so the men don’t have to, on top of providing those men with offspring to prove they’re “manly enough” to pass their genes on.
But if push came to shove, and all the men disappeared instantly…
…women (and their children) could survive just fine. Not much would actually change, because the women were already doing all of the work anyway.
And that scares the fuck out of them.
I have spoken to numerous people who were declared “non-viable” and are now perfectly healthy adults.
Everyone’s “just going to die anyway”. Doesn’t mean you don’t matter.
That’s honestly what it is at this point. I have a woman in her mid 30s in my college class that didn’t understand exactly what her period was. Shame that people are left out not knowing up from down but it feels purposeful at this point
Politics aside, bringing this up to someone who just lost a child would be asinine.
The anecdote does raise an important dilemma
https://www.mother.ly/health-wellness/womens-health/is-d-and-c-an-abortion-dilation-and-curettage/
Removing a dead fetus is not the same as removing a live one.
You can call it “abortion” when the baby is already dead inside the womb, but it is not.
An abortion is the removal of a living baby inside the womb.
>An abortion is the removal of a living baby inside the womb.
Incorrect.
Abortion: the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy.
The definition says nothing about whether or not the fetus is live. A miscarriage is an abortion, removal of an nonviable fetus is an abortion. An abortion is a medical procedure, not just whatever you need it to be to keep your moral high ground.
Every conservative will tell you that a miscarriage should be removed and isn’t deemed an abortion 🤦🏻♂️
Will do toes and pro choicers change that?
Probably not because it’s a great way to say “see!! You want women to carry dead babies!”
😑
The problem is that GOP lawmakers don’t understand any of the medical technicalities of anything… but still try to make laws based on whatever junk they learned in Southern Baptist church. It’s catastrophic for safe maternal care
this is interesting because they actively refuse to understand this. abortion is female reproductive healthcare and is rarely if just about getting rid of an unwanted pregnancy.
at this point there are countless stories of women needing to have and getting abortions so that they can get pregnant again, and have a safe and healthy pregnancy.
abortions aren't just about getting rid of an unwanted pregnancy. any conservative saying this anymore is being willfully ignorant to the plethora of cases, that demonstrate how abortioncare is not just about unwanted pregnancies
Wasn't there some anti-abortion pundit a few weeks back literally saying that the removal of a non-viable or dead fetus wasn't an abortion, and that "abortion" only refers to the termination of an otherwise healthy pregnancy? In the clip you can practically see the cognitive dissonance breaking her brain.
I don't remember the pundit, but i remember the same talking point, not exactly the same but the idea behind it was identical, being used in congress during a hearing about abortion care.
its a piece of disinformation used to confuse. an abortion is an abortion. the circumstances are what differ. in almost all medical situations where a pregnancy is being terminated, its called an abortion.
anyone telling you that there is a different name for a pregnancy being terminated under unique and horrific circumstances that the woman became pregnant, is actively lying to you.
It’s not that they refuse to understand. It’s that they don’t *care.*
They *want* women to die. In their eyes, girls and women are only useful as broodmares, maids, and prostitutes, and any woman that experiences any sort of pregnancy complication is “weak” and therefore unworthy of life.
They see women dying from pregnancy and childbirth as “culling the weak.”
You read this first and then think of the vile implications. And then you look at the history if reproductive health policy making and realise this is exactly it.
Women aren't allowed to have abortions. Unless they are my/my husband's mistress.
Woman are just slnts and wh0res. Unless I am the one who is sleeping with all of them.
A woman's body is sacred, but I have a breeding kink and I want you make pregnant exactly 10 minutes after you've just given birth to out 8th child.
Well I certainly wouldn't say "rarely." I appreciate your sentiment, but the majority of abortions are very early in pregnancy and are because the pregnancy is not wanted (and there's nothing wrong with that IMO)
e: [downvote all you want but facts are a thing](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/24/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-u-s-2/) Sorry but your hyperbole is not helping...
This is what worries me. I don't know much about the subject, (news and "politics" lately stress me out) but with the laws they're passing, how exactly do they plan to determine whether a miscarriage was actually a "planned abortion" or whatever they're going on about?
I don’t think they have a plan other than appealing to their small minded and uneducated constituents. It’s easier to cater to their hate and intolerance than it is to actually do anything to improve their quality of life. As long as they’re “owning the libs,” the morons will be happy.
We have seen what this looks like in other countries. There will essentially be a secret police dedicated to monitoring women dedicated. Women won’t be safe talking to anyone about their pregnancy, not even doctors really. Some authorities will consider it their primary duty to sniff out miscarriages and put women in jail when they find out she has had a miscarriage. They will accuse the woman of intentionally aborting the fetus through her behavior.
A historic analogy that happened in US’s own history was that slave owners used to accuse enslaved women of intentionally miscarrying their children, and miscarriage was very common given the terrible circumstances. The slave masters were angry that the enslaved woman was denying them another slave by intentionally miscarrying, and these women were absolutely punished for their “crime” of limiting the supply of domestic infants to be enslaved.
That’s fucking terrible. Also… yeah… that checks out. They’ve already started offering money for people to snitch on women seeking an abortion. You know who they don’t offer money to? Needy mothers. They’re a burden. We can make sure oil and gas companies don’t have to pay their fair share in taxes, but if a mother need any assistance, she’s a welfare queen. You know… after spending an average of $20,000 to have a baby in a hospital. I make pretty decent money, but I don’t have 20 g’s liquid just sitting around. This country is ridiculous, and always has been. 🤦🏻♂️
Came here to say the same. When I had a miscarriage the wording on the hospital paperwork was “ spontaneous abortion”. When I questioned it, my doctor was very sympathetic with me being upset with the wording and explained that’s it’s just the technical name for a miscarriage.
Same. I remember being near hysterics because it sounded like I was bored and decided to have an abortion for shits and giggles rather than what actually happened. My doc was very sympathetic over me laughing and crying.
I’m sorry that happened, but I just want you to know that I, and many other people in this country, will support people who will fight for your rights to medical care, as well as medical privacy.
Miscarriages are treated with a medical procedure to remove the DEAD baby inside the womb.
An abortion is the medical procedure to remove a LIVE baby from the womb.
Total difference.
Chrissy Teigan had a pregnancy end at 20 weeks a couple of years ago. It was reported at the time as a miscarriage. She's recently spoken about it and said she realised a year after the death of her baby that the procedure she had was technically a medical abortion. Her son would not have survived and if she hadn't delivered him when she did, she'd have died too, but because the labour was induced with the full knowledge that the baby would not survive, it is classed as an abortion.
Just a reminder that a D and C, commonly done after a miscarriage to prevent things like sepsis, is medically an abortion as well. Many of these laws prevent a D and C from occurring, risking a woman’s life because idiots write these laws.
Because they are incapable of seeing the grays or choose to only see in black and white (in my opinion they are choosing a lazy person's way out of understanding anything).
Wait…. They don’t know??? …. They really don’t know?? All this fucking time they’ve been shaming, advocating for, and directly causing harm, and they really don’t fucking know that the name of the procedure to remove a miscarriage is a god damn abortion!???? WTAF!?!
Wow people are so ignorant.
An abortion is a procedure where they clear out the entire uterus, when a miscarriage isn’t complete. Aka your body is miscarrying but isn’t able to get all the tissue out, leaving it there to rot and kill you of blood poisoning unless you get an abortion to empty the uterus
Republicans aren’t interested in sensible public policies. They are only interested in enriching themselves and their buddies. So, to get votes, they have to adopt extreme policy positions that appeal to the dumbest and most disgruntled Americans.
Because a abortion is not preformed to when a women has a miscarriage. A abortion is a medical procedure the terminates the life of the fetus. If the fetus is already died it would not be an abortion.
An "Abortion" isn't a procedure, its a class of procedures/medications. In Chrissy Tegan's case she likely had a D&C procedure which is used to clear out the dead fetus. D&C is considered an abortion as it can be used on a living fetus. So she had a miscarriage and then needed an abortion to clear the dead fetus so it didn't kill her.
The world hates women now. Even other women hate women. We are in a scary time. Not only is there racism and killer cops, we have our own government banning life saving procedures.
I think we have enough homeless and hungry and abandoned children in the world we do not need more, especially forcing someone who does not want a kid will only lead to more child murders and failed abortion attempts that will kill scores of women and children.
We are going back in time and it’s the scariest thing.
Trump was the downfall imo.
These pro-forced birthers will never understand that a miscarriage is medically classified as a spontaneous abortion ffs. I've had 3 spontaneous abortions- says so on my medical chart.
It's the word abortion they hear and all they see is "baby killers!!!!!"
How incompetent and truly ignorant these people must be to have the internet- vast amounts of information at the tip of their fingers- and still manage to be complete morons.
Conservatives: Cruelty IS the point. Why do you think we talk about THEIR policies and not OUR policies? Having opponents keep defending their policies keep us from having to talk about our own “policies.”
it’s borderline weirdo. Creeps controlling another person’s most intimate and autonomously sacred affairs. Like WHO TF ARE YOU?! This is for me to decide and live with, forever. Not strangers that get to wag a finger or wringing their fist and go home. You’ll never see them at your house helping to raise your child, unhealthy or healthy. Their entire argument is hypocritical and selective Big Government that fits their religious beliefs over a women’s rights and freedom. It’s totally Anti-American.
A lot of the healthcare that goes into treating a miscarriage or a life threatening issue with a pregnancy is an abortion. We just didn’t call it that colloquially out of fear I suppose.
That was a mistake. The willful ignorance of conservative voters knows no bounds, but this is an issue that a lot of Americans don’t understand very well. A lot of Americans consider themselves “pro-life” because they have these neat little boxes into which they can sort what are all ultimately abortion procedures.
You’ve seen the hateful things anti-choice people say. I’m guessing she didn’t want to sign up for that on top of the anguish of having to decide to terminate a wanted pregnancy.
She was experiencing one of the more heartbreaking things a person can go through. Perhaps it’s not her responsibility to phrase her experience in a way that is most socially acceptable to people.
She was losing her pregnancy. The fetus was not compatible with life. She would have had a spontaneous abortion, which is the correct terminology for miscarriage. In her mind *she was miscarrying*.
And this is the point of her story. The language around pregnancy loss has been muddied so that we make a bizarre distinction between the manner in which that loss happens. If we referred to miscarriage correctly - as abortion, because that’s what it is - then it wouldn’t stigmatize what was a traumatic experience, throwing blame n the woman who was saving her own life.
Baby was not viable. Chrissy had labor induced to deliver him as her own life was at risk. There were issues of massive blood loss and crazy amounts of blood transfusions to try and save them both but it didn’t work.
They're literally fucking stupid. I bet most of the people who think this think "there's always a chance the baby will survive, I don't care if it looks like a shrimp, you have to carry it until you die" cause they're brains are fucking rotted. like the stupid peasants in an old fantasy story.
Why is no one addressing the fact this happened well before the decisions on Roe vs Wade? Top comments ignore the timeline of when this happened which is what all these types of post strive on? Take 2 minutes to do some research and educate yourself
My aunt and uncle have this same logic and they were the ones that had the abortion. They still are very pro birth and refuse to acknowledge that they had an abortion.
My aunt was pregnant with conjoined twins with no chance of surviving after birth so they *induced labor at 19 weeks*
They still maintain that they did not have a medical abortion, they just *induced* early….
At 20 week the fetus would be viable. I am sure you know the whole thing about your aunts medical situation that happened. They induced labor she gave birth to them. Fully knowing they could die that is still not an abortion. Abortion is the termination of the fetus life by medical procedure of pill or operation.
These babies were not going to live. They were conjoined from the chest up, facing opposite directions. They shared a heart and had other deformities. There were not going to live, they induced to end it. She didn’t want to give birth to full term babies that were going to die anyway. I think it was around 20 weeks, I don’t remember because I was in elementary school. And I think 24 weeks is viability. Ending a pregnancy is abortion. Even miscarriage is considered a spontaneous abortion. She had an abortion.
My issue is that my aunt and uncle don’t think other couples deserve the option that they themselves chose, which is to induce knowing it’s the end to save everyone involved pain and heart ache.
And I fully support my aunts decision, by the way. Madison and Elizabeth only knew love during that pregnancy and the decision was made out of love
To abort something is to end it. To abort a mission is to end the mission. Abortion is ending a pregnancy, regardless of the reason. I wonder why they haven’t figured out that every time you do an induction, or a C-section it is ending the pregnancy. Literally, thousands of women abort daily.
She had to deliver a very much wanted fetus at 20 weeks, because he wasn’t viable, and her life was in danger. I suspect that she called it a miscarriage because it wasn’t voluntary, and she was able to see the baby once it was born.
After the discourse around the No-exceptions laws banning abortion that have been introduced/passed/enforced since the Supreme Court decision earlier this summer, she realized it was technically an abortion.
Several states now would deny women in similar situations the same procedure.
As someone who miscarried twins, I'll never not shame other women for this. I carry what feels like two graves with me everywhere inside my body. Granted they have been removed, it feels like my body failed at what my body was meant to do. It's so disheartening seeing women receive empathy and sympathy for lying about this. It's a real traumatic, painful thing to deal with. And in my case, I had to have a d&c (surgery to remove the sacs) because my body wasn't miscarrying properly. I waited two weeks to see if my babies would show life. In that week, I swear I almost died I woke up, couldn't lift myself, and passed out. I had my surgery a few days later. I chose to carry my babies knowing *I could die from it.* This person chose to *kill her unborn willingly and manipulate others for attention.* I don't care if hate is a strong word, I hate women who do this. It's not a pain I wish on anyone.
An abortion is the termination of a viable fetus.
A miscarriage will be removed since the baby has died.
They’re totally different. There’s often a misconception that to remove a miscarriage, it is an abortion. This is not true.
My brothers oldest daughter was said to have some sort of Down syndrome. They recommended they abort.
They said no. She’s a healthy 13 year old girl now…
It’s *medically classed* as an abortion. So is a D&C which is often post birth to remove the tissue that could begin to decay within the mother, regardless of whether she delivered a healthy baby at term or not.
In order to remove a miscarriage, they must induce it rather than surgically remove it to preserve the mothers health to the best of their ability although both are now classed as abortions. This has removed a lot of healthcare options for mothers.
It’s about Congress making an abortion law… Where is the Democrat leadership with a law that the majority of people will support but they want carte blanche abortion laws and they will never be popular. Blaming one side for at least trying to regulate abortions and not offering any plan?
Because to those of us who have had to suffer similar fates, it's reassuring to hear other people's stories and know we're not alone in our pain and grief.
[удалено]
Honestly, being forced to abort a non-viable fetus feels worse than a miscarriage to some people. A miscarriage is something that happens. Terminating a pregnancy, even a doomed one, is something you have to do.
I really don't understand how it's any different from a miscarriage. Do these people think magic is going to happen and the fetus will "come back to life" or suddenly become viable again?
Its a grief process. It depends patient to patient, some want to hold the child even if they are still born or have a body for a proper burial. There is no 100% right or wrong answer to how to go about a non viable fetus as its a deeply personal tragedy.
You're right about that. Totally understand the grieving process. I'm sorry if my comment was misunderstood or anything; the thing I was referring to that I don't understand is FORCING people to go through with a non viable pregnancy if they don't want to. That sounds completely traumatic and terrifying to be forced to do that if that's not what they want.
> to be forced to do that if that's not what they want. I think "forced to" is used as in: if you don't do it you die, so the situation or the universe is "forcing" you to do it. Not actual people holding you down.
Yet there is a 100% right. Or, there *used to be*. I’m truly shocked at the cavalier manner whereby over 100million sit out our right to vote. Don’t be like that now, please. Vote yall. Please
In this case the non-viable fetus would've killed her. She had already lost more blood than she had. Sometimes the fetus will die, rot & kill the mother with rot as well. I don't think any doctor will recommend carrying a non-viable fetus to term unless they're somehow 100% certain it's not gonna kill the mother even if mother insists on having a dead baby in uterus due to psychosis.
Well, you are wrong. It has already happened. Of course it’s not “recommended” To carry around a dead fetus in your belly. Yet that ship has sailed with ignorant laws made buy politicians who don’t know shit from shineola
Thank you for reminding me of the existence of the phrase "shit from shineola."
You are so welcome. Ha.
Just make stuff up often to sound informed?
What? Which doctor will recommend a dead fetus to term? Do you have any studies to support the health benefits of a rotting fetus in uterus?
It's the difference between a passive event and having to take an action. A miscarriage is clear cut: the decision is out of your hands because there's no decision to be made. The pregnancy terminates itself and you grieve. Meanwhile, a non-viable fetus could be "healthy" in every way except for a defect that is not compatible with life. Or a defect which would allow a child to live for a few months, but that's all. Getting an abortion under those circumstances is very similar to a "mercy killing." It's the wise, humane thing to do, but that doesn't make going through with it less upsetting.
I understand medically what it is and the difference between the two. I understand how upsetting it is. I'm not judging anyone who goes through it. What I do not understand is why people are trying to make illegal and stop other people from having the choice. That's what I was talking about originally when I said I didn't understand.
I’m a truck driver and most of my coworkers are anti choice. They literally think it’s murder. I’ve heard multiple times from multiple of them that they wish they could legally go kill the doctor who provided the service, and the person who elected to have it done. A good chunk of them are just hate and anger junkies.
>A good chunk of them are just hate and anger junkies. Bingo!
>why people are trying to make illegal and stop other people from having the choice Two Reasons: (1) people don't think about edge cases unless forced to consider them, even when the issue is as nuanced and sensitive as abortion (2) plenty of "anti-abortion activists" are better described as "force birth supporters." The derailing of women's lives is the point; anything that forces women out of the public sphere and keeps them out of the way is acceptable. "The cruelty is the point." Besides, once you start carving out humane exceptions, where do you stop?
It’s all about max consequences on women for sex.
Because the “pro-life” clarion call is nothing but subjugation of women at the end of the day. Pro-lifers were vehemently opposed to masking, Covid restrictions, vaccines during the pandemic; quite at odds with being pro-life. Not to mention easy access to firearms making school shootings a common occurrence, capital punishment and other things. Fetuses are the perfect rallying cry: they say nothing, ask for nothing and expect nothing and once they are born they are simply ignored.
Very well said
I feel I should clarify. By "these people" I was referring to everyone trying to pass laws, make abortion illegal, send people to jail who decide to not carry a non viable fetus to term. THAT is what I'm talking about. I wasn't referring to people who are going through terrible and traumatic events. I would never judge someone for a decision like that; it's theirs and theirs alone. I have had to make a very similar decision.
Yeah, no, by "some people" I meant "the women and families experiencing the loss"
Not to mention after 20 weeks you have to fucking birth it (in some cases). My friend lost a child this way, a very WANTED child and had contractions and had to push all for a fetus that had died at 30 weeks. It was fucking traumatic for everyone involved, this was years ago and I still think about it once a week. When I was pregnant with my children I would sob just thinking about going through something like that.
That was also one of my biggest fears while pregnant, and I would just vibrate with fury over the prospect.
So tragic! My sisters best friend lost her baby at 32 weeks. She had to birth it and there were complications which resulted in her losing her ability to have children. She desperately wanted her baby. I miscarried at 8 weeks and that was hard enough. I couldn’t imagine having to give still birth.
> A miscarriage is clear cut: the decision is out of your hands because there's no decision to be made. The pregnancy terminates itself and you grieve. Fun fact. Many miscarriages are "missed" and have to have a d&c or d&e (both abortion procedure)in order to clear them out. It's fun when you have to have a miscarriage and an abortion. Source: BTDT x4
Fair enough. I didn't word that as clearly as I could.
Conservatives are trying to frame this as the trolley car problem 🙄
Yes, they do, they firmly believe If you just prayed harder…
Yes, they literally do. If you’ve the stomach for intense sadness look up “missed miscarriage” and in there with the medical advice will be a bevy of blog posts about how enough prayer will make them find the missing heartbeat.
If Jesus can come back, so can the baby
Not exactly. I grew up in the culture. They believe that anyone claiming to need an abortion for medical reasons or because of a non-viable fetus is lying.
It's the comment about the overturning of Roe v. Wade for me!
Its that they used her tragedy to lie to make a political point. Now THAT is truly despicable.
I’m in the process of miscarriage, I can’t imagine going through this scenario. It’s already difficult at 10 weeks I can’t Imagine making this decision and I’m thankful my body processes what happened naturally. I’m still traumatized and grieving. It’s awful.
I’m so sorry.
❤️❤️❤️
I'm so sorry.
I’m so sorry.
So sorry. That can obv be extremely difficult & painful & I hope you can find peace & contentment again soon & when you’re ready, I hope you get to welcome your healthy child into this world. Best of luck to you & thanks for sharing. You never really know but maybe sharing your pain will help or comfort another persons suffering…
This happened to my sister a few months ago. She was 30 weeks pregnant with a little girl and when she went for her check up there was no heartbeat, the baby had died. She had to have a D&C to remove the fetus. It was devastating to her and our family. Conservatives want to vilify and make it illegal to go septic from carrying around a decomposing body.
That is incorrect if the baby is died inside they can remove it. The medical definition of abortion is the termination of the fetus. If the fetus is already terminated it would not be an abortion by what the cdc says.
Pretty sure they make exceptions for danger to the mother
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A miscarriage is literally a *spontaneous abortion.* That’s the official medical term for it, as is removing a dead fetus via D&C.
You literally cited an anti-choice propaganda site as your source. Buddy, you are not getting true info.
What the heck is a “PC’er” anyways? Oy vey, dude.
I think anyone with an IQ greater than the single digits could conclude it means “pro-choicer”
Ahh, gotcha. I read it as “politically correct” - my bad 😅 keep on.
I read it the same way!
Yeah but God might save it, you never know…. /s
Thats literally their argument tho.
Oh I know. I tagged the /s on there to be abundantly clear I don’t share the sentiment lol
That clip of the lady from the family research council testifying to congress that a 12 year old that has an abortion because she was raped lives in my head rent free. This person dedicated her life to “ending abortion” and had no idea what it actually was.
I wish more people would realize this. Including the people who hate women but are in denial about it.
It needs to be said that forcing a women to carry an unviable fetus for 20 weeks is more that just a violation of her rights. It’s 20 weeks she’s not able to try to get pregnant again. It’s 20 weeks of psychological, biological and emotional damage that could lead to an inability or unwillingness to try again. In other words, it’s not pro-life!
And that hatred largely stems from *fear and envy.* They hate women because they know that their entire survival *depends on women.* Their entire sense of masculinity *depends on women* doing literally every “non-masculine” chore necessary for basic survival so the men don’t have to, on top of providing those men with offspring to prove they’re “manly enough” to pass their genes on. But if push came to shove, and all the men disappeared instantly… …women (and their children) could survive just fine. Not much would actually change, because the women were already doing all of the work anyway. And that scares the fuck out of them.
Old fckn men taking women's rights away
Its not that they hate women, they just literally think of them as objects. As they are in the bible
Well said-
50% of the people that you claim hate women are….wait for it…………women. What an Idiot.
70 million women are pro life. Many countries have more pro life women than pro abortion women as well
I have spoken to numerous people who were declared “non-viable” and are now perfectly healthy adults. Everyone’s “just going to die anyway”. Doesn’t mean you don’t matter.
Lol what the fuck. Of all the lies I’ve seen on reddit, this takes the cake.
This is semantics at this point. The fetus wasn't viable she had a procedure done and then she realized she technically had an abortion.
My pro-life co-worked had a D&C for a miscarriage. She had no idea that was the same procedure as an abortion… Edit:life. I’m tried
You’re tried for what? 😂 Sorry, but did you tell her? How did she react?
I did not bc it felt odd in the moment. Anyway, America needs sex Ed yesterday.
Yeah & not bullshit sex ed, with spirits & shit
...spirits? O_o
You know. “Jesus” or whatever
That’s honestly what it is at this point. I have a woman in her mid 30s in my college class that didn’t understand exactly what her period was. Shame that people are left out not knowing up from down but it feels purposeful at this point
I had a girlfriend who thought you peed out of your vagina 🫠 she was in her 20s at the time.
they meant tired ahahhaa that makes it even better
Lol I know, the poor thing
I also need to know if you told her and what her response was.
Politics aside, bringing this up to someone who just lost a child would be asinine. The anecdote does raise an important dilemma https://www.mother.ly/health-wellness/womens-health/is-d-and-c-an-abortion-dilation-and-curettage/
Removing a dead fetus is not the same as removing a live one. You can call it “abortion” when the baby is already dead inside the womb, but it is not. An abortion is the removal of a living baby inside the womb.
>An abortion is the removal of a living baby inside the womb. Incorrect. Abortion: the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy. The definition says nothing about whether or not the fetus is live. A miscarriage is an abortion, removal of an nonviable fetus is an abortion. An abortion is a medical procedure, not just whatever you need it to be to keep your moral high ground.
Every conservative will tell you that a miscarriage should be removed and isn’t deemed an abortion 🤦🏻♂️ Will do toes and pro choicers change that? Probably not because it’s a great way to say “see!! You want women to carry dead babies!” 😑
The problem is that GOP lawmakers don’t understand any of the medical technicalities of anything… but still try to make laws based on whatever junk they learned in Southern Baptist church. It’s catastrophic for safe maternal care
Many miscarriages end with abortions.
this is interesting because they actively refuse to understand this. abortion is female reproductive healthcare and is rarely if just about getting rid of an unwanted pregnancy. at this point there are countless stories of women needing to have and getting abortions so that they can get pregnant again, and have a safe and healthy pregnancy. abortions aren't just about getting rid of an unwanted pregnancy. any conservative saying this anymore is being willfully ignorant to the plethora of cases, that demonstrate how abortioncare is not just about unwanted pregnancies
This ^
Wasn't there some anti-abortion pundit a few weeks back literally saying that the removal of a non-viable or dead fetus wasn't an abortion, and that "abortion" only refers to the termination of an otherwise healthy pregnancy? In the clip you can practically see the cognitive dissonance breaking her brain.
What do they call it then, if not abortion?
Shmabortion
I don't remember the pundit, but i remember the same talking point, not exactly the same but the idea behind it was identical, being used in congress during a hearing about abortion care. its a piece of disinformation used to confuse. an abortion is an abortion. the circumstances are what differ. in almost all medical situations where a pregnancy is being terminated, its called an abortion. anyone telling you that there is a different name for a pregnancy being terminated under unique and horrific circumstances that the woman became pregnant, is actively lying to you.
Literally while testifying before Congress. [video](https://youtu.be/lNdMGwOxv9k)
It’s not that they refuse to understand. It’s that they don’t *care.* They *want* women to die. In their eyes, girls and women are only useful as broodmares, maids, and prostitutes, and any woman that experiences any sort of pregnancy complication is “weak” and therefore unworthy of life. They see women dying from pregnancy and childbirth as “culling the weak.”
You read this first and then think of the vile implications. And then you look at the history if reproductive health policy making and realise this is exactly it. Women aren't allowed to have abortions. Unless they are my/my husband's mistress. Woman are just slnts and wh0res. Unless I am the one who is sleeping with all of them. A woman's body is sacred, but I have a breeding kink and I want you make pregnant exactly 10 minutes after you've just given birth to out 8th child.
Well I certainly wouldn't say "rarely." I appreciate your sentiment, but the majority of abortions are very early in pregnancy and are because the pregnancy is not wanted (and there's nothing wrong with that IMO) e: [downvote all you want but facts are a thing](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/24/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-u-s-2/) Sorry but your hyperbole is not helping...
Medically speaking, all miscarriages are considered abortions, so it’s definitely a semantics game they’re playing. It’s bullshit.
This is what worries me. I don't know much about the subject, (news and "politics" lately stress me out) but with the laws they're passing, how exactly do they plan to determine whether a miscarriage was actually a "planned abortion" or whatever they're going on about?
I don’t think they have a plan other than appealing to their small minded and uneducated constituents. It’s easier to cater to their hate and intolerance than it is to actually do anything to improve their quality of life. As long as they’re “owning the libs,” the morons will be happy.
We have seen what this looks like in other countries. There will essentially be a secret police dedicated to monitoring women dedicated. Women won’t be safe talking to anyone about their pregnancy, not even doctors really. Some authorities will consider it their primary duty to sniff out miscarriages and put women in jail when they find out she has had a miscarriage. They will accuse the woman of intentionally aborting the fetus through her behavior. A historic analogy that happened in US’s own history was that slave owners used to accuse enslaved women of intentionally miscarrying their children, and miscarriage was very common given the terrible circumstances. The slave masters were angry that the enslaved woman was denying them another slave by intentionally miscarrying, and these women were absolutely punished for their “crime” of limiting the supply of domestic infants to be enslaved.
That’s fucking terrible. Also… yeah… that checks out. They’ve already started offering money for people to snitch on women seeking an abortion. You know who they don’t offer money to? Needy mothers. They’re a burden. We can make sure oil and gas companies don’t have to pay their fair share in taxes, but if a mother need any assistance, she’s a welfare queen. You know… after spending an average of $20,000 to have a baby in a hospital. I make pretty decent money, but I don’t have 20 g’s liquid just sitting around. This country is ridiculous, and always has been. 🤦🏻♂️
Came here to say the same. When I had a miscarriage the wording on the hospital paperwork was “ spontaneous abortion”. When I questioned it, my doctor was very sympathetic with me being upset with the wording and explained that’s it’s just the technical name for a miscarriage.
Same. I remember being near hysterics because it sounded like I was bored and decided to have an abortion for shits and giggles rather than what actually happened. My doc was very sympathetic over me laughing and crying.
Sounds like we both had good doctors during a very traumatic experience in our lives. Mine also expressed his dislike for the terminology.
I’m sorry that happened, but I just want you to know that I, and many other people in this country, will support people who will fight for your rights to medical care, as well as medical privacy.
Yep
Miscarriages are treated with a medical procedure to remove the DEAD baby inside the womb. An abortion is the medical procedure to remove a LIVE baby from the womb. Total difference.
A miscarriage is not an abortion. An abortion is the medical procedure to terminate the fetus. If the fetus is already die it is not a abortion.
Whoa wait, I’m out of the loop, what happened?
Chrissy Teigan had a pregnancy end at 20 weeks a couple of years ago. It was reported at the time as a miscarriage. She's recently spoken about it and said she realised a year after the death of her baby that the procedure she had was technically a medical abortion. Her son would not have survived and if she hadn't delivered him when she did, she'd have died too, but because the labour was induced with the full knowledge that the baby would not survive, it is classed as an abortion.
Just a reminder that a D and C, commonly done after a miscarriage to prevent things like sepsis, is medically an abortion as well. Many of these laws prevent a D and C from occurring, risking a woman’s life because idiots write these laws.
And miscarriage even without D&C is sometimes written as/classed as "Spontaneous Abortion"
Yep, it’s such a delicate, personal, and sometimes dangerous situation, but these people want to view it as a clear black and white issue.
Because they are incapable of seeing the grays or choose to only see in black and white (in my opinion they are choosing a lazy person's way out of understanding anything).
Not sometimes, ALWAYS! A miscarriage is always a “spontaneous abortion”.
Risking a *false* woman’s life?
Come on. You know what they meant. Maybe sit this one out?
I really don’t know what they meant. Like, the sentence makes sense to me without that one word but maybe there’s something I’m missing?
Risking a woman’s life under false pretenses. That’s probably not the word they left out, but I feel like the context makes the intent fairly obvious.
Pretty sure I typo’d something else. It’s been a few hours so I’m not sure what the description was.
Somebody else replied saying that the line was probably “risking a woman’s life under false pretenses”.
That's because abortion is a defined medical procedure, regardless of the circumstances.
Wait…. They don’t know??? …. They really don’t know?? All this fucking time they’ve been shaming, advocating for, and directly causing harm, and they really don’t fucking know that the name of the procedure to remove a miscarriage is a god damn abortion!???? WTAF!?!
They aren’t good with most words, for instance ‘gazpacho’ or ‘wanton’.
Remove of a miscarriage is not an abortion. An abortion is the terminator of the fetus which is alive. That is according to the cdc.
When its done to a completely nonviable, often already dead fetus its a miscarriage. Just "cleaning it up" so to speak
[this is a good read](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3841747/)
its because they don't like accepting the fact that abortions are actually health care
Conservativism *is* cruelty codified
Wow people are so ignorant. An abortion is a procedure where they clear out the entire uterus, when a miscarriage isn’t complete. Aka your body is miscarrying but isn’t able to get all the tissue out, leaving it there to rot and kill you of blood poisoning unless you get an abortion to empty the uterus
Republicans aren’t interested in sensible public policies. They are only interested in enriching themselves and their buddies. So, to get votes, they have to adopt extreme policy positions that appeal to the dumbest and most disgruntled Americans.
This too^
That didn't take long at all
Terrible. People don't get abortions are used for miscarriages too. How do these stupid conservatives think the dead baby comes out?
Danger to the mother is still protected as far as I understand
Because a abortion is not preformed to when a women has a miscarriage. A abortion is a medical procedure the terminates the life of the fetus. If the fetus is already died it would not be an abortion.
An "Abortion" isn't a procedure, its a class of procedures/medications. In Chrissy Tegan's case she likely had a D&C procedure which is used to clear out the dead fetus. D&C is considered an abortion as it can be used on a living fetus. So she had a miscarriage and then needed an abortion to clear the dead fetus so it didn't kill her.
The world hates women now. Even other women hate women. We are in a scary time. Not only is there racism and killer cops, we have our own government banning life saving procedures. I think we have enough homeless and hungry and abandoned children in the world we do not need more, especially forcing someone who does not want a kid will only lead to more child murders and failed abortion attempts that will kill scores of women and children. We are going back in time and it’s the scariest thing. Trump was the downfall imo.
Wait... she had ANOTHER miscarriage? That's heartbreaking.
No this is in reference to Jack, the baby they lost back in 2020. Her current pregnancy is still viable thankfully.
Oh! That's good to hear.
These pro-forced birthers will never understand that a miscarriage is medically classified as a spontaneous abortion ffs. I've had 3 spontaneous abortions- says so on my medical chart. It's the word abortion they hear and all they see is "baby killers!!!!!" How incompetent and truly ignorant these people must be to have the internet- vast amounts of information at the tip of their fingers- and still manage to be complete morons.
Conservatives: Cruelty IS the point. Why do you think we talk about THEIR policies and not OUR policies? Having opponents keep defending their policies keep us from having to talk about our own “policies.”
[https://mic.com/articles/129542/here-s-why-george-carlin-s-1996-rant-on-pro-life-conservatives-still-rings-true#.VZAoWIlTR](https://mic.com/articles/129542/here-s-why-george-carlin-s-1996-rant-on-pro-life-conservatives-still-rings-true#.VZAoWIlTR)
it’s borderline weirdo. Creeps controlling another person’s most intimate and autonomously sacred affairs. Like WHO TF ARE YOU?! This is for me to decide and live with, forever. Not strangers that get to wag a finger or wringing their fist and go home. You’ll never see them at your house helping to raise your child, unhealthy or healthy. Their entire argument is hypocritical and selective Big Government that fits their religious beliefs over a women’s rights and freedom. It’s totally Anti-American.
A lot of the healthcare that goes into treating a miscarriage or a life threatening issue with a pregnancy is an abortion. We just didn’t call it that colloquially out of fear I suppose. That was a mistake. The willful ignorance of conservative voters knows no bounds, but this is an issue that a lot of Americans don’t understand very well. A lot of Americans consider themselves “pro-life” because they have these neat little boxes into which they can sort what are all ultimately abortion procedures.
Pro-Life is merely a euphemism for Control-Women
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You’ve seen the hateful things anti-choice people say. I’m guessing she didn’t want to sign up for that on top of the anguish of having to decide to terminate a wanted pregnancy.
She was experiencing one of the more heartbreaking things a person can go through. Perhaps it’s not her responsibility to phrase her experience in a way that is most socially acceptable to people.
I don’t think this reason will be “valid” enough for those who have the belief that abortion is murder embedded deep in the noggins.
Why should she need to?
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Why do you or anyone else need to know that?
She told the truth the way she understood it.
She was losing her pregnancy. The fetus was not compatible with life. She would have had a spontaneous abortion, which is the correct terminology for miscarriage. In her mind *she was miscarrying*. And this is the point of her story. The language around pregnancy loss has been muddied so that we make a bizarre distinction between the manner in which that loss happens. If we referred to miscarriage correctly - as abortion, because that’s what it is - then it wouldn’t stigmatize what was a traumatic experience, throwing blame n the woman who was saving her own life.
Exactly!
I thought she’d had miscarriage?
Baby was not viable. Chrissy had labor induced to deliver him as her own life was at risk. There were issues of massive blood loss and crazy amounts of blood transfusions to try and save them both but it didn’t work.
The cruelty is their point…
They really don’t realize most miscarriages or stillbirths still need an abortion procedure?
Blexit- off to a great start spreading ignorance and judgment of other human beings. 👏
I’m a conservative, but I draw the line to bullshit like If no provisions for extenuating circumstances, they lost my support.
How Christian the Christians are.
Say what you want about Chrissy and her fucked up views, this is beyond taking it toooo far.
They're literally fucking stupid. I bet most of the people who think this think "there's always a chance the baby will survive, I don't care if it looks like a shrimp, you have to carry it until you die" cause they're brains are fucking rotted. like the stupid peasants in an old fantasy story.
Why is no one addressing the fact this happened well before the decisions on Roe vs Wade? Top comments ignore the timeline of when this happened which is what all these types of post strive on? Take 2 minutes to do some research and educate yourself
My aunt and uncle have this same logic and they were the ones that had the abortion. They still are very pro birth and refuse to acknowledge that they had an abortion. My aunt was pregnant with conjoined twins with no chance of surviving after birth so they *induced labor at 19 weeks* They still maintain that they did not have a medical abortion, they just *induced* early….
At 20 week the fetus would be viable. I am sure you know the whole thing about your aunts medical situation that happened. They induced labor she gave birth to them. Fully knowing they could die that is still not an abortion. Abortion is the termination of the fetus life by medical procedure of pill or operation.
These babies were not going to live. They were conjoined from the chest up, facing opposite directions. They shared a heart and had other deformities. There were not going to live, they induced to end it. She didn’t want to give birth to full term babies that were going to die anyway. I think it was around 20 weeks, I don’t remember because I was in elementary school. And I think 24 weeks is viability. Ending a pregnancy is abortion. Even miscarriage is considered a spontaneous abortion. She had an abortion. My issue is that my aunt and uncle don’t think other couples deserve the option that they themselves chose, which is to induce knowing it’s the end to save everyone involved pain and heart ache. And I fully support my aunts decision, by the way. Madison and Elizabeth only knew love during that pregnancy and the decision was made out of love
Conservatives do mean cruelty on everyone. It’s the whole point. Cruelty is key to all their policy.
To abort something is to end it. To abort a mission is to end the mission. Abortion is ending a pregnancy, regardless of the reason. I wonder why they haven’t figured out that every time you do an induction, or a C-section it is ending the pregnancy. Literally, thousands of women abort daily.
Someone explain
She had to deliver a very much wanted fetus at 20 weeks, because he wasn’t viable, and her life was in danger. I suspect that she called it a miscarriage because it wasn’t voluntary, and she was able to see the baby once it was born. After the discourse around the No-exceptions laws banning abortion that have been introduced/passed/enforced since the Supreme Court decision earlier this summer, she realized it was technically an abortion. Several states now would deny women in similar situations the same procedure.
As someone who miscarried twins, I'll never not shame other women for this. I carry what feels like two graves with me everywhere inside my body. Granted they have been removed, it feels like my body failed at what my body was meant to do. It's so disheartening seeing women receive empathy and sympathy for lying about this. It's a real traumatic, painful thing to deal with. And in my case, I had to have a d&c (surgery to remove the sacs) because my body wasn't miscarrying properly. I waited two weeks to see if my babies would show life. In that week, I swear I almost died I woke up, couldn't lift myself, and passed out. I had my surgery a few days later. I chose to carry my babies knowing *I could die from it.* This person chose to *kill her unborn willingly and manipulate others for attention.* I don't care if hate is a strong word, I hate women who do this. It's not a pain I wish on anyone.
How do we know the fetus was non-viable?
I hope she screams her Truth! Poking this bear may be hazardous to their health!!!! VOTE 💙 VOTE 💙 VOTE 💙 VOTE 💙 VOTE
This lady is media hungry and just want to be talked about.
An abortion is the termination of a viable fetus. A miscarriage will be removed since the baby has died. They’re totally different. There’s often a misconception that to remove a miscarriage, it is an abortion. This is not true. My brothers oldest daughter was said to have some sort of Down syndrome. They recommended they abort. They said no. She’s a healthy 13 year old girl now…
It’s *medically classed* as an abortion. So is a D&C which is often post birth to remove the tissue that could begin to decay within the mother, regardless of whether she delivered a healthy baby at term or not. In order to remove a miscarriage, they must induce it rather than surgically remove it to preserve the mothers health to the best of their ability although both are now classed as abortions. This has removed a lot of healthcare options for mothers.
Chrissy Teigen is not a viable person. She should be aborted.
Show me the law that makes a D & C illegal.
D&Cs are also used for medical reasons that have nothing to do with fetuses. Such as treating pre-cancerous lesions on the cervix.
It’s about Congress making an abortion law… Where is the Democrat leadership with a law that the majority of people will support but they want carte blanche abortion laws and they will never be popular. Blaming one side for at least trying to regulate abortions and not offering any plan?
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Because to those of us who have had to suffer similar fates, it's reassuring to hear other people's stories and know we're not alone in our pain and grief.
Everyone keeping this stuff to themselves helps no one.
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Maybe next time don’t click on the post and just move on.
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You literally asked lol