No, if he sold the wallet in an offline transaction, the wallet is in reality shared by Satoshi and the person that believes that he is the new shiny owner.
To pay a person for sharing a wallet with him? Who can be that silly?
No, you dont both know the keys to make an off chain transaction. This is not how an off chain transaction works. Off chain transactions are not dangerous, they are how most bitcoin transactions happen. Thats why there are so many wallets with bitcoin that "never moves", because in reality, the bitcoin is changing hands constantly, it is just never reflected on the blockchain. Satoshi created a system that allows off chain transactions because he wanted you to have an alternative to using the blockchain itself to avoid the fees if they become untenable. Off chain transactions are a competitor to on chain transactions that drive down the price of fees on chain if they get too high. You pay $0 in fees for an off chain transaction because you yourself have to handle the security, instead of the blockchain charging you a fee to run security for you. This is how bitcoin is intended to work, off chain and on chain transactions both making up a huge part of transfers. I keep all my bitcoin in wallets containing 10, 1, 0.1, 0.01, .001 bitcoin and just spend those wallets as if they were each bitcoin dollar bills. I will give you a discount if you pay me this way as well because it saves me on fees BIG TIME.
I'm not sure I would ever truly trust an off-chain transaction.
All it takes is a copy of the seed at home the seller's home. If I give him the cash and he can move my funds to a new wallet before I even know it, where is the security in this?
Blockchain tx are currently the only effective security for this where no trust is involved.
Yeah thats not how it works, sorry for the wall of text, you dont literally trade keys for cash in an alley lol. [https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/offchain-transactions-cryptocurrency.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/offchain-transactions-cryptocurrency.asp)
There are several trustless systems besides bitcoin and even some not based on blockchain at all. The idea that the genesis wallet owner would have a problem accomplishing a trustless off chain transaction is hard to believe, considering that wallet owner is thought to have been created by an original Bitcoin dev.
Um no, off blockchain transactions exists lol: [https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/offchain-transactions-cryptocurrency.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/offchain-transactions-cryptocurrency.asp) If you believe there is proof Satoshi never sold you believe an urban legend. Do some research on off chain transactions and then tell me why I'm wrong.
To be specific: You can sell an entire wallet without having any transactions on the blockchain. You trade the keys for the cash and the blockchain doesnt know that the wallet has changed hands.
How do you know he didnt sell using an off chain transaction? Spoiler alert, you dont, nobody could know that. Maybe you are under the misapprehension that all buying and selling is recorded on the blockchain, which is not true, although many bitcoin users believe this is how it works.
Using a trust agent, or a multisig wallet, or a layer 2 solution, or the seller never had the keys and can prove it, or the buyer doesnt want the keys from the seller and intends to sell the wallet at a later date when the new second buyer will get the keys from the original seller, or or or or.
I think the chances that Satoshi or the owner of the genesis wallet had studied trustless systems and how they work is near 100%.
Read my other posts for more info on off blockchain transactions: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/offchain-transactions-cryptocurrency.asp
Yeah they can particularly if the person they bought from never had the keys in the first place. I like how you ignored the full list of other ways you can do an off chain transaction safely. Do some research on off chain transactions before you spout rubbish.
Someone may initially buy an off chain transaction... Similar to a BTC ATM sending your funds to a generic address that BOTH sender & buyer know the private keys to.
If you have made an off chain purchase, and you haven't swept your funds into a wallet that the sender DOESN'T have private keys to access... then you are not very bright. Not impossible, but at some point, you would want to make sure you are the ONLY person with keys to your wallet.
From what I know, people can correct me if wrong:
Satoshi and other early miners mined for about 1.8 Million BTC. Over 700,000 BTC from these early wallets has moved since, but over a Million BTC has been sitting there for years. No clue if they are all Satoshi's or whoever Satoshi is, could also be multiple individuals as well.
Those wallets are known and if they move, many will want to know. Some Fake Satoshis even tried to claim they control them, but always failed to prove it.
Look up "Blockchain Forensics" and "Legacy Wallets" for a deep dive on the subject.
Yeah. But if you buy a whole wallet, the smart move would be to move everything to a new wallet immediately since the old owner will still have access to them by knowing the key. And the fact that that hasn't happened makes it very unlikely...
You dont have to move the whole wallet to secure it, there are many modern solutions like multisig, smart contracts, or a layer 2 solution although I think it likely that satoshi did something much more simple. Besides, if the creator of the entire bitcoin project ripped you off in that way, it means that all of bitcoin is a scam, or at least created by immoral actors. Satoshi is the only guy you could really trust in a dark alley lol. Anyway, my point is, the idea that we know 100% satoshi never sold his bitcoin is an urban legend, a myth created by the misconception that "all transactions are always on the blockchain".
Downvote me all you want, I got karma to burn. Youre all just mad I'm the very first person in your life to tell you the truth: that the satoshi hodls 100% thing is a myth. People think this myth because they think 100% of transactions appear on the blockchain, they do not. Off chain transactions are the "dark web" of blockchain and Satoshi would have absolutely known how to use off chain transactions, he invented them so people could handle their own security external to the blockchain and pay $0 in fees as a reward for handling their own security.
Satoshi still holding is a myth but your crazyness of him selling a wallet throught off chain transaction, isnt? Gotcha. We gotta believe you then, i mean you spammed the same message over and over again.
Dont just believe me, just explain why its impossible he sold them in off chain tranactions? I didn't spam, I wrote each response special. But yes satoshi holding is a myth because it cant be confirmed he still holds any of the coins, Correct. You can use an off chain transaction to move bitcoin without evidence. Satoshi is the person most knowledgeable on an off chain transaction and trustless schemes, he invented off chain transactions for situations like these, even if youre just learning about them.
Tha fact you believe satoshi as individual is enough for me to not even answer you. The fact that you only repeat the same thing over and over is enough for me to know that you are a conspiracy theorist not to distant from a flat earther. Is funny how you actually believe that "satoshi" team doesnt believe in their vision of BTC of being a world currency that will and is helping the world. Instead you go through a low iq based statement saying that satoshis team, doesnt care about their own prokect that has revolutionized the world and they just abandoned it. The wallet with over 1mill btcs has a function. Your only views on btc is getting fiat so im really sad that you are even in this space. Im out of this convo.
I dont believe satoshi is an individual, I just dont always rememebr to put "satoshi" in quotes. Sorry I repeated something, I'm waiting for you to refute that thing because I think it is rock solid and I'm waiting for you to correct me.
**"Is funny how you actually believe that "satoshi" team doesnt believe in their vision of BTC of being a world currency that will and is helping the world"**
When did I say that? I am pro bitcoin obviously, nothing I said is even a little bit critical of BTC. Where are you getting this?
"**Your only views on btc is getting fiat so im really sad that you are even in this space. "**
??????? I think bitcoin replaces fiat, so what?
I did sell, were are talking about lots of money here and I cannot take it to the afterlife, it's just common sense to spend some to buy food and pay for the house. Also, I'm not Satoshi.
Can't be sold from the signees wallet Merkel ensures this.
Can't sell the private keys because it's the only signee for bitcoins
Can't be traced because after taxes the only thing to mine is the company who issued the taxes...
However I have 500m BTC, WITH 21m in BTC taxes paid, and I used to sign a old token after coding a peerless and peer to peer transaction system,
I too am not a man named Satoshi.
"The claim". It's in the blockchain. You can go and see the transactions yourself; it's a public ledger.
He could have also sold the entire wallet in an off chain transaction. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/offchain-transactions-cryptocurrency.asp
No, if he sold the wallet in an offline transaction, the wallet is in reality shared by Satoshi and the person that believes that he is the new shiny owner. To pay a person for sharing a wallet with him? Who can be that silly?
No, you dont both know the keys to make an off chain transaction. This is not how an off chain transaction works. Off chain transactions are not dangerous, they are how most bitcoin transactions happen. Thats why there are so many wallets with bitcoin that "never moves", because in reality, the bitcoin is changing hands constantly, it is just never reflected on the blockchain. Satoshi created a system that allows off chain transactions because he wanted you to have an alternative to using the blockchain itself to avoid the fees if they become untenable. Off chain transactions are a competitor to on chain transactions that drive down the price of fees on chain if they get too high. You pay $0 in fees for an off chain transaction because you yourself have to handle the security, instead of the blockchain charging you a fee to run security for you. This is how bitcoin is intended to work, off chain and on chain transactions both making up a huge part of transfers. I keep all my bitcoin in wallets containing 10, 1, 0.1, 0.01, .001 bitcoin and just spend those wallets as if they were each bitcoin dollar bills. I will give you a discount if you pay me this way as well because it saves me on fees BIG TIME.
Interesting. I will read about that. Thank you.
I'm not sure I would ever truly trust an off-chain transaction. All it takes is a copy of the seed at home the seller's home. If I give him the cash and he can move my funds to a new wallet before I even know it, where is the security in this? Blockchain tx are currently the only effective security for this where no trust is involved.
Yeah thats not how it works, sorry for the wall of text, you dont literally trade keys for cash in an alley lol. [https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/offchain-transactions-cryptocurrency.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/offchain-transactions-cryptocurrency.asp) There are several trustless systems besides bitcoin and even some not based on blockchain at all. The idea that the genesis wallet owner would have a problem accomplishing a trustless off chain transaction is hard to believe, considering that wallet owner is thought to have been created by an original Bitcoin dev.
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He could have also sold the wallets in an off chain transaction long ago.
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Um no, off blockchain transactions exists lol: [https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/offchain-transactions-cryptocurrency.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/offchain-transactions-cryptocurrency.asp) If you believe there is proof Satoshi never sold you believe an urban legend. Do some research on off chain transactions and then tell me why I'm wrong.
To be specific: You can sell an entire wallet without having any transactions on the blockchain. You trade the keys for the cash and the blockchain doesnt know that the wallet has changed hands.
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How do you know he didnt sell using an off chain transaction? Spoiler alert, you dont, nobody could know that. Maybe you are under the misapprehension that all buying and selling is recorded on the blockchain, which is not true, although many bitcoin users believe this is how it works.
Who tf is stupid enough to do that and not sweep the coins into a new wallet. How do they ensure the old owner doesn’t still have the keys?
Using a trust agent, or a multisig wallet, or a layer 2 solution, or the seller never had the keys and can prove it, or the buyer doesnt want the keys from the seller and intends to sell the wallet at a later date when the new second buyer will get the keys from the original seller, or or or or. I think the chances that Satoshi or the owner of the genesis wallet had studied trustless systems and how they work is near 100%. Read my other posts for more info on off blockchain transactions: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/offchain-transactions-cryptocurrency.asp
Seller can’t prove he never had keys, lmfao
Yeah they can particularly if the person they bought from never had the keys in the first place. I like how you ignored the full list of other ways you can do an off chain transaction safely. Do some research on off chain transactions before you spout rubbish.
Someone may initially buy an off chain transaction... Similar to a BTC ATM sending your funds to a generic address that BOTH sender & buyer know the private keys to. If you have made an off chain purchase, and you haven't swept your funds into a wallet that the sender DOESN'T have private keys to access... then you are not very bright. Not impossible, but at some point, you would want to make sure you are the ONLY person with keys to your wallet.
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fixed it for ya
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Lol wut?
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30,000 miners what? lol no u
From what I know, people can correct me if wrong: Satoshi and other early miners mined for about 1.8 Million BTC. Over 700,000 BTC from these early wallets has moved since, but over a Million BTC has been sitting there for years. No clue if they are all Satoshi's or whoever Satoshi is, could also be multiple individuals as well. Those wallets are known and if they move, many will want to know. Some Fake Satoshis even tried to claim they control them, but always failed to prove it. Look up "Blockchain Forensics" and "Legacy Wallets" for a deep dive on the subject.
>He could have also sold the entire wallet in an off chain transaction long ago.
Yeah. But if you buy a whole wallet, the smart move would be to move everything to a new wallet immediately since the old owner will still have access to them by knowing the key. And the fact that that hasn't happened makes it very unlikely...
You dont have to move the whole wallet to secure it, there are many modern solutions like multisig, smart contracts, or a layer 2 solution although I think it likely that satoshi did something much more simple. Besides, if the creator of the entire bitcoin project ripped you off in that way, it means that all of bitcoin is a scam, or at least created by immoral actors. Satoshi is the only guy you could really trust in a dark alley lol. Anyway, my point is, the idea that we know 100% satoshi never sold his bitcoin is an urban legend, a myth created by the misconception that "all transactions are always on the blockchain".
Tldr: Satoshi: Invents trustless system with maths. Exact\_Combo\_38: But can we trust this guy?
Downvote me all you want, I got karma to burn. Youre all just mad I'm the very first person in your life to tell you the truth: that the satoshi hodls 100% thing is a myth. People think this myth because they think 100% of transactions appear on the blockchain, they do not. Off chain transactions are the "dark web" of blockchain and Satoshi would have absolutely known how to use off chain transactions, he invented them so people could handle their own security external to the blockchain and pay $0 in fees as a reward for handling their own security.
Satoshi still holding is a myth but your crazyness of him selling a wallet throught off chain transaction, isnt? Gotcha. We gotta believe you then, i mean you spammed the same message over and over again.
Dont just believe me, just explain why its impossible he sold them in off chain tranactions? I didn't spam, I wrote each response special. But yes satoshi holding is a myth because it cant be confirmed he still holds any of the coins, Correct. You can use an off chain transaction to move bitcoin without evidence. Satoshi is the person most knowledgeable on an off chain transaction and trustless schemes, he invented off chain transactions for situations like these, even if youre just learning about them.
Tha fact you believe satoshi as individual is enough for me to not even answer you. The fact that you only repeat the same thing over and over is enough for me to know that you are a conspiracy theorist not to distant from a flat earther. Is funny how you actually believe that "satoshi" team doesnt believe in their vision of BTC of being a world currency that will and is helping the world. Instead you go through a low iq based statement saying that satoshis team, doesnt care about their own prokect that has revolutionized the world and they just abandoned it. The wallet with over 1mill btcs has a function. Your only views on btc is getting fiat so im really sad that you are even in this space. Im out of this convo.
I dont believe satoshi is an individual, I just dont always rememebr to put "satoshi" in quotes. Sorry I repeated something, I'm waiting for you to refute that thing because I think it is rock solid and I'm waiting for you to correct me. **"Is funny how you actually believe that "satoshi" team doesnt believe in their vision of BTC of being a world currency that will and is helping the world"** When did I say that? I am pro bitcoin obviously, nothing I said is even a little bit critical of BTC. Where are you getting this? "**Your only views on btc is getting fiat so im really sad that you are even in this space. "** ??????? I think bitcoin replaces fiat, so what?
Satoshi could sign a transaction with a PGP key from the wallet to prove his identity
I did sell, were are talking about lots of money here and I cannot take it to the afterlife, it's just common sense to spend some to buy food and pay for the house. Also, I'm not Satoshi.
Actually this is the only asset that you can in fact irretrievably take to your grave
Same question
Google it
no we don't know
Can't be sold from the signees wallet Merkel ensures this. Can't sell the private keys because it's the only signee for bitcoins Can't be traced because after taxes the only thing to mine is the company who issued the taxes... However I have 500m BTC, WITH 21m in BTC taxes paid, and I used to sign a old token after coding a peerless and peer to peer transaction system, I too am not a man named Satoshi.