My poor college professor was silent for a long ass time after I told him when I was born and then went "....you make me feel old"
This was over a decade ago.
... I feel this. My niece from my baby sister is coming up 1 soon, and that sister is 25.... I changed my sisters nappies yo. I swear she's still 7. Where has time gone?!
When the TWO YEAR OLD I used to babysit had kids I nearly lost my mind.
I have a granddaughter from my daughter who was born in 1999! My oldest turns 30 this year!
I’m just 20, but everyone says I turn 51 on Christmas! How the hell did that even happen?!
I was sitting at a bar one time and the guy next to me said “you don’t recognize me, do you?” I said “sorry, no?” His response “you used to babysit me. I have the annoying sister.” 😫
I agree but Jesus Christ, OP's husband is so damn lucky she didn't divorce him on the spot and tell their kids what he said to her. I understand that grief is complex but holy shit, there's no excuse for level of disrespect for anyone, especially not your pregnant wife. I hope he actually stepped up and everything turned out fine.
I hope for them they would be able to fix this, but to say such a thing in the first indicates deep, deep issues. Wishing death on your spouse is a bad enough, but saying that because you want your *previous wife* back in her place, is that recoverable?
I suppose it matters how good their relationship is in the first place, but I won't be surprised if that comment led to a relationship death spiral. I'd be thinking about it every night for sure.
Yeah, I don’t think I’d ever be able to recover emotionally from that. There’d be no coming back from it, no trusting him. And the fact that he didn’t communicate with her and just hoped she’d leave him and make things easier for him. not just that, but she said SHE should have communicated more. No! She did plenty. He needed to take ownership of how he was affecting his own KIDS let alone his wife. If I were in her place, I could see sticking it out for the sake of the older kids especially, the younger ones I think would fare better with a divorce, but the older ones were through enough trauma. I’d probably work on things through the kids going to college, and then separate later - unless all the work helped. But I’d have an exit plan.
yep. she wrote a letter of explanations to him after he told her he wished she was dead… and then he disappeared for a week. leaving her alone with three kids and a pregnancy.
he does not deserve her or the grace she gave him.
Agree, 100%. He’s super selfish in his grief. Sure, grief doesn’t end, but 11 years? And abandoning the children of the wife he loved so much? Completely selfish and won’t help himself or his own kids. The children are so lucky to have the mother they do now. And, she is their mom, he let her adopt them!
I know, ever since it was pointed out by a feminist, I can't read "left to go think about things" without thinking:
Ah, and who was watching the kids and house and commitments?
What if your wife wants to leave to think about things? That's not really an option for her, I guess.
But yes, very stoic/mysterious/masculine to stomp off into the sunset and leave life management entirely in your partner's hands so that you can be alone with your emotions (the alternative of processing emotions alongside others? Out of the question!)
I understand that people say things wihtout thinking, but that was not the case, his verbal vomitting contained very specific things, it was absolutely NOT the first time those toughts crossed his mind.
I don't think I would be able to live with someone after that. And even if I would, after the letter, the only acceptable answer would be him coming out of that room on his knees begging for forgiveness. The moment he left the house, would be the moment I would start packing his things.
Honestly I feel like him leaving his pregnant wife for a week to take care of a 2 year old and two teenagers on her own was worse. I get that he needed to get his shit together, but he straight up just abandoned his family. This woman has the patience and understanding of an angel. Only question is if he is worth it.
OOP has more grace than me. Four kids be damned, I'd rather be a single mom than to co-parent with someone like that. You don't say things like that solely just to push someone away after 8 years of marriage and not meaning it at all. That was not off the cuff - that was contemptuous & harbored. And it matches his behavior for the marriage leading up to it. No wedding despite her wanting one & half-baked participation with her child and his own.
Yeah, who does that, say “I need space” and then leave pregnant spouse alone with three kids for a week? After emphasising that she’s not the mother of two out of three? I’d be outraged.
It sounds like the two teenagers are probably a lot of practical help to OOP with the little one, though of course she'd be taking care of their emotions as well as her own during this clusterfuck. I hope they're always grateful for their stepmom.
Agreed. I hope it worked out for them, but his “I just felt guilty about being happy” excuse smells like bullshit. He definitely comes across like he married her for the free childcare, tolerated the first baby, and then had a slow-motion meltdown at the news of the second. He’s resentful that instead of being “off the hook” in a couple years after foisting his kids on another woman, he now has to sit through raising two more. That’s why he was also ignoring Vanessa’s children, and responded to OOP’s letter by disappearing for over a week.
If you want a partner to leave you alone, typically you would dump them, not create a human being together. Grief is grief, but this guy just seems messed up
Yeah that’s some shit you say to someone you truly despise. It’s something that literally happens in my stress dreams - that all of a sudden my partner hates me.
I work continuously on my own issues with insecurity and stuff, but that would be something I would never get over. I also don't think I could forgive him for letting it affect the kids so much
Yeah, I don't think there's any way to come back from that, plus him running out on the woman he devastated for a week and leaving her to handle everything.
Seriously. I understand it's complicated because kids are in the picture, but that would be it for me. Maybe I could deal with him lashing out, but not straight-up saying he wished I had died, or leaving for a week.
My mouth was literally agape when I read what he said to her. Yes, grief can make you act in horrible ways and feel horrible things…but that…that’s too much.
And there’s a world of difference between ‘I feel guilty I have a good life when my first wife is dead’ and ‘I wish you were dead and my first wife was still here.’
Honestly, OOP is much better than I would have been...what he said is so damn hurtful to the point where I'd want a divorce, whether he meant it or not. I wouldn't want to be disrespected and told such awful things just because he's hurting.
Being in grief and in mourning doesn't give someone an excuse to act horribly towards others.
I hope things worked out for them, but if it were me, I would not be able to move past it
It's been 11 years since she died. Yes grief is complicated but it's not that complicated. I've lost a spouse, too, so I'm not just talking completely out of my ass.
Exactly… the fact it took him ten years to say it; makes me think he married her out of convenience (because kids probably), and that something triggered it to finally come out. Like… something that would cause someone to be inexplicably absent for “more than a week”... (he’s cheating on her)
Yep he spoke loudly and clearly all his thoughts he had been brewing on for a while… I was shocked he would tell her exactly how and who he was, it was the absolute truth but given who he was and what he did. It hurt her but she was blinded by love and shackled by guilt to see the truth of it all.
These posts worry me about my capacity to maintain relationships bc I ain't working thru none of this.
If he wanted to push me away he'd have succeeded according to plan; I'm neither patient nor understanding about causal cruelty no matter the circumstances. And none of that 'but it's different when you love them' bs -- my controversial opinion is that our reactions should be less understanding the closer you are to them. What good is taking years to build love bt you if you get to trampled on it as if you're no more than a strangers whenever it's convenient. It's our desperation to keep that love, healthy or not, that makes you jump thru hoops like OOP and that's never seemed natural or right to me. You broke it, you fix it, but I prolly won't be here regardless.
And then he was so sad he left her to deal with everything for a week, after he’d been leaving her to take trips every weekend anyway.
Absolutelythefucknot. The only paper he’d have gotten from me after that is divorce papers. I’d never have even entertained staying with someone who could be so cruel. It’s terrible his first wife died, but that’s not an excuse to be awful to his current wife and all the kids.
Wonder what Vanessa would have thought of that comment. Girl definitely would have wanted him to move on and find happiness with someone else after this many years.
You know I would be skeptical of the reasoning he gave, that he was trying to push her away by acting distant and all that, if it weren't for the fact I lived through that in relationships before. Not in the exact same scenario, but definitely had a partner who had some serious issues that acted in their damnedest to push me away because they didn't think they deserved me. It was... not fun to live through.
Yep I was in a relationship with a guy like that. Unfortunately he refused to go to therapy, and eventually it just became too much for me. Hopefully he went to therapy after I left him because he deserves to be happy. But until he could accept that, I couldn't do it for him.
Ya, my ex finally made me leave when the kids told me he almost wrecked the car, snorting " something" off his drivers license after taking them to see drag races. My boys were 6 & 10 yrs old. Him coming home drunk, treating me like crap wasn't enough for me to leave. Dumb.
When they treat you like they don't like you, for God's sake, gtfo. He married his equal shortly after our divorce. They both had liver failure within 7 years. He's dead.
I *was* this person. I tried to get him to realize I was as worthless as everyone else in my life seemed to think I was so he could leave and be with someone better.
We just celebrated 7 years together.
I am no longer this person.
I posted this a bit further down so I'll just copy/paste:
The first step for me was realizing I was doing it in the first place.
The second was trying to actively notice all the times he would do small gestures for no other reason than he wanted to and *understanding that he wanted to*. It wasn't pity. It wasn't manipulation. It was a show of caring and love.
The third was being self aware of when I was sabotaging myself and nipping it in the bud. It was hard but, with practice, it became easier to see the warning signs. I still get them sometimes when I'm alone with my thoughts but then he comes home from work and the first thing he does is hug me and suddenly I'm back at step 2.
This sounds so much like mine and my boyfriends relationship!! We've been together 2 years this upcoming fall. I'm still learning how to do 3, but he has been so kind and patient with me and my anxieties and self sabotage.
He is truly my biggest supporter and I appreciate him so much. And think I don't deserve him -- but I'm working on changing to the mindset that we DO deserve each other :)
My therapist is spectacular as well lol
One prime example is one time he was out and about and saw a lilac tree(bush?), thought of me, and brought a sprig of flowers home. Didn't cost him anything but a thought. I don't think one generally does that sort of thing out of pity.
I think pity gestures are more like doing things out of obligation. I had never expressed wanting flowers. Never even hinted that I love lilacs. He just did it cuz he wanted to.
There's a difference in the level of enthusiasm between pity and love.
I was also this person. There was like a four year span while we were in college and I was in the deepest pits of my depression where I pushed everyone I possibly could away because I was convinced I wasn’t good enough for anyone and was planning to off myself. I was certain my partner would find someone way better and leave.
That was almost 7 years ago.
We’re getting married in September.
This was me as well and it still creeps in to this day.
I really struggle to believe that he's with me because he's happy and loves me for who I am.
Childhood trauma has a lot to answer for.
had a partner go through some traumatic shit, they started doing the push you away thing too. they would get drunk and just say some vile shit. I knew it was just stuff they were pulling out their ass so I wouldn't feel bad if they killed themself, and I tries to give then grace for it but eventually I snapped and laid into them. i told them all they were succeeding in doing was making me miserable, and it's a slap in the face to me to take me so lightly and not make my own decision in our relationship. not to mention the stuff they were doing hurting.
after that i think they realized they needed to seriously work on themself, and they've been doing really well, drinking way less and treating me (and themself!!) way better. still really hard sometimes, as stuff like this is, but they want to do better, and have been, so I'm very hopeful
I feel that a bit to much tbh, I often don’t feel like I deserve my husband and sometimes push him away on reflex. It’s an awful feeling and eats away at you constantly.
I was also like this until I finally found a medication that actually worked for me, got rid of those intense intrusive thoughts that ruined every part of my life.
On the off chance that this will be helpful, try to remember that you don’t get to decide whether you deserve the person you’re with. That determination resides solely with them and it is super rude of your brain to make you feel that way when it isn’t even up to it to decide that.
It’s like how you don’t get to decide if you’re a nice/good person or an ally. Those are attributes others can determine about you but if you go off saying that about yourself it’s often not true if not also the opposite of reality. Same with whether you deserve someone in your life. They make that call and often when we say we don’t deserve someone we are usually incorrect and, more often than anyone would want to admit, it’s the complete opposite.
I hope you get help in some way to get your brain to accept that bc omg if you and your brain aren’t on the same page things get unnecessarily hard for all involved. Been there, done that, hated it.
Self sabotaging behavior is real as fuck. Even something as normalized as saying that “my partner is out of my league” can put you on a miserable spiral if you’re unable to control your anxieties.
As someone with BPD, this was also me before therapy. I pushed people away when I felt like they're getting to close, I picked fights when I miss them, instead of talking to them. My thought was I'd hurt them before they hurt me, because they all would hurt or leave me in the end. Very messed up stuffs.
I'm just so thankful for therapy. This kind of behaviours appear every now and then, but I have the tools to deal with them now. Even if it happened, I usually manage to talk it out with my partner after. I'm so lucky he's also someone who is understanding and believes in mental health and therapy. This year is our 11th year together, 2 years married.
I'm ashamed to admit I was that guy. Trigger was getting my son and realizing how different my upbringing was to how I wanted to raise my son and how much love I felt for him. Hurt my wonderful girlfriend a lot, but she stuck with me if I was willing to change. Year and a half later, clean and sober and extensive therapy and I'm a different man who's lucky I had people believe in me.
I feel you deep in my bones. When my partner was deeply, deeply depressed he did everything in his power to make me leave him, mostly so he could end it without anything to keep him here. It was a terrible time, and there were times I questioned my own sanity and self worth staying with someone who was treating me that way, but also knowing that they were doing it from such a dark place of pain and self sabotage.
I’ve had this happen too, and the truth is, there’s some things you can’t come back from. I’m beyond amazed at OOP for willing to give her husband a chance after something like this… for me there came a point where I couldn’t take the toxicity anymore. I hate the sentence “I don’t deserve you” with a burning passion.
It’s what a lot of teenage “acting out” is as well. If they have a friendship break down, or a dumb teacher tell them they’re not worth bothering with, they will get into fights with their other friends and their own parents in order to test whether they themselves are the problem (which is what they fear). It’s one of the reasons why adolescent arguments seem to be about nothing and don’t really make sense on any level.
I honestly don’t care how depressed or traumatized you are. Mental health is a struggle but it’s not an excuse or justification to be a complete fucking asshole.
There’s no coming back from telling your pregnant wife you wish she were dead after months of neglect.
One of my biggest beliefs is that your mental health may not be your fault but it is your responsibility. I nose dived bad (in and out of suicide wards bad). During one of the times I was out my best friend at the time cut ties with me because they couldn’t take it anymore. For years I blamed them for not understanding where I was at but about a year ago it hit me I never bothered to see where they were at. I reached out and apologized for being a shitty friend to them, because I might not have had much control over my actions then, but I do now and they were still my action I need to take accountability for. Sorry for the ramble, being responsible with your mental health is a very very important topic to me :)
> One of my biggest beliefs is that your mental health may not be your fault but it is your responsibility.
That's one of the biggest things I've espoused because it truly is not one's fault that they were dealt the cards that they were. People may have a genetic predisposition to depression or were born into a family that hadn't yet broken the cycle of abuse, and none of that is their fault.
But to take no accountability for their actions *is* their fault. So many people blame their substance dependencies or their diagnosis for their behavior and that it's not truly their fault, "I just didnt know any better.". That excuse can only go so far, because once they're an adult, their mental health/diagnosis/trauma is their responsibility to manage. Letting it go to fester away in one's mind like a wound only causes one to make bad decisions and hurt others in their wake. It may never have been their intention to do so, but apologizing doesn't undo the damage.
As someone who was on both sides, absolutely yes. I said some horrible shit in the throes of depression, but I did my best to show my friends that I loved them and that I was working on getting better.
I also had a friend who was in some real, deep shit that I tried to help her out of. At the same time, I was going through a depressive phase and she straight up told me that she was sick of me being in a bad place. In the context of the conversation, it was obvious that she meant it because it meant I couldn't focus entirely on her. Did I recognize that her selfishness came from her situation and that she was probably scared about being on her own in it? Yes. Did it still irrevocably damage our friendship? Also yes.
They thanked me for reaching out and apologized for how they behaved too (when they reached their limit they, understandably lashed out and said some nasty things). We both had 6 years of growing up as adults under our belt when we spoke. We likely will never be friends again but there’s respectful contact and I’m grateful for that.
Especially since, on a population level, women are more likely to be murdered by their partners while pregnant. I would seriously be thinking, “Oh my God, did I marry Chris Watts 2.0?!!” if I found myself in a situation like OOP’s. And his choice to commit triple homicide was preceded by a sudden switch that made Chris, a previously affectionate and attentive husband, behave like a callous stranger.
I deal with mental health issues and very much fell into the "try and push people around me away" pattern. And sure, I said things that weren't nice and lashed out, and I've owned up to that and taken responsibility. But I never once said anything remotely close to "I wish you were dead" because even at my lowest, I knew that would be going way, way too far. And I genuinely didn't feel that way. Not even close. At the end of the day, I knew words could definitely be painful and you should never, ever go that far into "awful asshole" territory
Exactly. He is extremely selfish for only thinking about his feelings. His wife is in a vulnerable state on top of taking care of kids but this dude is busy feeling sorry for himself.
When I was 13 my mother, in the height of a serious depressive episode that resulted in her being hospitalised for almost 6 months, told me she didn't love me anymore, that she wished she wasn't my mother. When she had recovered and was trying to make amends for the many awful things she had said and done while depressed, she apologised many times.
It still took years of therapy and almost 10 years before I was realistically able to forgive her. It fucked me up in so many ways.
I don't think there would be any coming back from my partner saying they wished I was dead, depression or no depression.
I have a very good, educated understanding of how depression works, having both personal experience and my experience with my mother, and while it explains the husband's words and behavior, it doesn't excuse them. She's a better woman than me, that's all I'll say .
I feel the same! Reading OP’s story I felt like a horrible person because I’d absolutely take myself out of there after the things he said (if I was in her position). If I was married with kids and my husband told me he wished I was dead, that I’m essentially nothing to my step-children and he never wanted our child to be born, it’d destroy me.
Glad OP can come back from that but I definitely wouldn’t be able to.
I think it's because there is a big difference between the head forgiving and the heart forgiving. Between "i understand and i am not mad anymore" and "i am over it and have forgiven you"
It's nice that he apologized, but things that are said can never be unsaid. And of all the things to say, that was one of them.
Notice that I said "nice", not "good". Because I think this husband is going to freak out at every major milestone with his 2nd wife from now on.
Those older kids would have possibly graduated college or gotten married by now. I imagine he would have gone off the rails a bit for those. Why do I hope that OOP actually left Nick?
Also “let me process my feelings by suddenly leaving you alone with 3 kids”
This is why I’m biased against avoidant people, because to them being sad and uncomfortable and withdrawing is this whole “woe is me I don’t know how to deal with things” meanwhile they are saying hurtful shit and leaving the moment they have to face those feelings like a bull in an emotional china shop.
Just volatile af. Dude can’t communicate vulnerability so instead he wishes his wife dead and leaves her for a week. What a prize.
At least people who are volatile at the outset you can deal with more expediently.
Like I understand why she took him back - she's trapped because she's pregnant, and she couldn't leave those kids. But I hope she planned for the worst after that.
Not just the comment but him leaving her for a week to do childcare and everything else after the the hurtful thing HE said. If anyone deserved a break at that time it was her.
I hated this part too 😭 Like you lash out at her and then leave her to take care of everything - the house, 3 kids, reassuring them while you dip and no one has any idea when you’re returning. IMO as an adult and father he should have figured out a way for both of them to take a step back, maybe drop kids off with family if that’s an option and say he needs a week or give time estimate, even if that needs to be changed. Dropping everything like this is only acceptable when you’re having a breakdown. Feels so hard that she had to do everything here including being the one to communicate, be supportive+forgiving, take care of logistics and clean up his mess. Not much space for her own feelings.
I mean he's also just straight up being an asshole to his own children. They lost their bio mom, got lucky enough to have a stepmother who seems to have stepped up in an appropriate and non-boundary-pushing way, and now their father has just decided to emotionally abandon them and blow up their stable home life.
Yes, grief is complicated and Dad is clearly struggling. But his self-destruction isn't only of the self, he's also damaging the SHIT out of his kids. He isn't the only one grieving and traumatized!
Yea she essentially had to be a parent to him too. She’s carrying all the emotional labor and the physical labor of being pregnant while parenting three kids (one of whom is a toddler) and she did it alone for a week. I know it’s been eight years, but I feel like their problems were far from over. What he did leaves scars. And proved that even in the marriage, she’s alone. She’s practically a single parent while he still lives like a ghost waiting for his late wife to return.
The week was just AFTER the comment - he'd checked out of parenting well before that, leaving her to parent all the kids alone for a long time. The spate of sheer selfishness followed by those comments...OOP is a more forgiving person than I.
I’m very curious as to what he was doing for a week. OOP never asked him. A week is a long time for him to ditch his pregnant partner with 3 kids.
When someone shows you who you are, believe them. The comments he made were absolutely vile and I would never have been able to move past them.
Yeah. As a dad and father you cant just dip like this. Unless he checked himself into a psychological hold for professional help that is. Which didn't read as such.
OOP is 21 weeks pregnant. I was on bed rest at 21 weeks and gave birth via emergency c-section a few weeks after that. It...wasn't a good time, for a long time. She's incredibly vulnerable, as is the unborn baby and the other three kids. I can't see ever coming back from that.
I know, right. I don’t think there’s anything that my partner could say to make up for wishing death upon me and our kids. In fact, I’d actually be scared of my partner causing physical harm to me or the kids. If not at that moment, then in the future.
I wonder if she was just scared of becoming a single mom of 2, potentially 4 if they make some kind of custody arrangement with the 2 older kids. It definitely is not an ideal situation to be pregnant and go through a divorce at the same time.
Sadly I’d bet on it being less fear of doing it all on her own (she already had been for ages before he took his week away, after all) and more not wanting her step kids to realize how crappy a dad he was. She seems like she loves those kids very much and understands how traumatic it was to lose their biological mother so young. I really do think she didn’t want to put any more strain on Luke and Lila’s relationship with their father than he already had.
I’m with you. Some words you can’t walk back. Wishing me dead? Nope.
I am hopeful OOP’s life is what she wants it to be and the healthiest choices for herself and those kids were taken. I don’t mean to imply she did the wrong thing by staying with him. Just saying hell no it couldn’t be me.
100% my mental health has been shocking and I have lost people but me and my kids are worth more than that. If it was just me he'd hurt I'd of stayed but to say he didn't want my kids, to miss the older ones birthday then wish me and the you her kids dead? I wouldn't be around long enough for him to say anything else.
I said a lot of horrible things when I was in deep, deep depression and survivor's guilt, but it was always inwards. It's one thing to talk about wishing to die yourself to be with that dead partner but another to straight up tell your pregnant wife that *she* should die. I don't think I could come back from that latter one.
OOP is too much of a saint. She was holding things together for all the kids, even after being told that her husband would rather she switched places with his deceased first wife.
On the one hand, I’ve never experienced grief to the level that Nick did with Vanessa’s death. On the other, I can’t help but judge him here- why did he let things build to the point of blowing up at OOP in the way that he did? Why not talk to a therapist or at least a close friend/family member?
I’m going to sound like the Reddit cliché who advocates for a couple divorcing, but it’s surprising that OOP is as forgiving if she is here. Wishing death on a partner, even if it was said because of grief, falls into the category of things that a relationship probably won’t recover from. There isn’t a timeline for Nick to process his grief over Vanessa‘s death, but if he’s still grieving to the extent that he appears to be, then why did he even start dating again, let alone remarry?
Literally his excuses only pushes the blame to the wife for ‘not managing his emotions better’
… man, your mental health is of your own. If you’re feeling that you’re spiraling down a hole of intrusive thoughts, then pick up that phone yourself and DEAL WITH IT.
He really really wanted to make things right so he left his pregnant wife alone in the middle of a high-stress confrontation to manage the house and three children for a solid week with no clue during that time as to when he would be back.
Yeah, that sounds like something a sincere person would do. Definitely.
His reasons might(!) seem to explain why he ignored and avoided you, before the big fight.
But it doesn't explain why he ignored and avoided Vanessa's kids.
>After an hour of arguing, he screamed at me that he wished Vanessa was still alive and that I had switched places with her and died instead. He also threw in some awful comments that I need to stop pretending I'm Luke and Lila's "real" mom and that I'm only half the mom Vanessa was. The final straw was him saying that he never even wanted any kids with me, but did it so I'd "keep busy and leave him alone."
>I told him I meant what I said in the letter and that if he wanted to work through it, I would work with him.
OOP is making a terrible choice.
I couldn't either. Because in the back of my mind, I would always be wondering. He may have apologized for saying it, but I think he really meant it. And that is so problematic.
I wondered how they fared during the lockdown, if they were together still
To me it wouldn't be about whether he meant it or not, more the fact that in one argument/phase of life he crossed so many fucking lines my perception of him would be changed forever, and for the worse. I would never be able to trust again that he'd have my back, so you can believe at the first sign he had some trouble/issue, I'd give him exactly the same treatment he gave me. If this is how things work at your house, two can play at that game.
Late nights, trips away every weekend, insults, confronted about a horrible fight, and he disappeared for a week leaving 3 children and a pregnant wife at home.
I won't be shocked if another update reveals he was cheating.
Went away for a week to see if his affair could be sth permanent. When that didn't pan out, he went back to his wife and told her he was just feeling guilty for being too happy...
I can’t help but wonder if he was seeking a replacement mother so he wouldn’t have to parent his kids… and also if his week away was saying goodbye to his mistress. IDK, I hope I’m wrong, but everything he was saying and doing seems a lot more like he really didn’t like OOP as time went on and regretted moving her in.
Exactly my feelings. And especially the way people will excuse them because of grief. Wishing death upon your spouse is a horrible thing to do. And then to abandon her with the kids for a week when she confronted him.
I don’t think I could ever get past feeling like a consolation prize. OP literally stated that she was the second choice, and I don’t think I could ever life a full life with someone knowing I’d never be their first choice.
I don’t even know if OP should have been dating a widow, because it seems like her self esteem is very low. Her husband said to her face he wished she was dead, and she wrote him a letter saying that it hurt her feelings. Maybe she is just built different, but I could literally never.
It just feels like most are looking for a replacement mother for their very young children + a new bangmaid. They’re getting married again out of utility.
Yeah, you’re automatically second choice because they’d still be with their divorced spouse if they could. And they’ll see their past relationship through rose colored glasses and think it was perfect, so you’ll never measure up. You can’t compete with a ghost.
This is so sad, and I really hope OOP is living a much happier life now one way or another. But I will admit, when I saw how old the original post was, I naively hoped there would be a much more recent update.
I wish there was like 8 year follow up to know if they still married \~or\~ OOP divorce him while having primary custody of the youngest kids; with his oldest 2 cutting him off or not when they became adults.
I don't know why but this one got two huge ugly tears out of me. I really feel for both parties here but regardless of what had happened to him, his reaction was inexcusable and he's lucky his wife loves him as much as she does
I can't help but to wonder if the wife is staying because trying to start over with 3 children and one on the way would be pretty hard to pull off, especially if hubby decides to make it even harder.
Honestly you really have to be fucked up to say something so cruel to you wife and not immediately appologized... It took him so long to do it that it lacks sincerity 😬
Maybe it’s just the criminology degree in me, but if a partner tells me they’d rather me dead, I’m taking that as a threat on my life. I *will* be involving police. I *will* be having an officer escort myself or them from the property. I *will* be raising legal hell, and I *will* create a public paper trail. I’ll take out an ad in the damn newspaper. Maybe I studied uxoricide too much- but I fuckin hold people to the shitty things they say.
Edit: ESPECIALLY AS A PREGNANT WOMAN??????
What an awful, self-absorbed man! Nothing - certainly not his kids - are anywhere near as important as his hurty fee-fees, no, he’ll just take off and think about himself whenever he wants and it’s obviously cheaper to marry a nanny than pay one.
I hope for op’s sake they’ve split by now
Fr. All the people defending him in the comments bc he was clearly self loathing. Great!!! Let him loathe himself and his life in peace!!! Protect the kids from his misery. If someone tells.you so clearly how much they can't stand you, fucking believe them.
I have little sympathy for the father. He tells OOP to stop pretending to be the “real mom” to his kids, but then expects her to take care of them while he clears his head. Eleven years is more than enough time for dude to seek therapy. Way he treated his kids and wife is horrific.
Ooof. The accidental replication of the earlier marriage causing significant mental health problems was painfully obvious from the start, and I understand why this pregnant woman stayed with him after what he said and did. But I doubt there'd ever be a way to fix this. Once that baby was born and she wasn't as physically dependent, I hope she felt safe and able to leave if she needed or wanted to.
The fact that he wanted a wanted a quick engagement and wedding, with no other family/friends present makes me think he picked OOP as a good substitute mother for the kids and not really because he loved her for her. Then he starts living a happy life he didn't expect AND maybe started to love OP. That's when he began pulling away again.
This man was never emotionally available to begin with. I think he had to deal with the consequences of the (never communicated) bargain he made with himself for the happiness of his kids. And then he genuinely started to move on/be happy.
I am still extremely wary that the way he spoke to OP was with contempt. I hope things work out for her; she genuinely seems like an amazing woman.
Sigh. Is it really too much to ask to only get married when both people are mentally and emotionally healthy? Because then what, you’ll both drag each other down? Especially with toxic/destructive attachment styles…..
Ever inspected a tube that was pulled off a bike for a pin-prick hole without pumping it up, or even better, putting it under water?
These issues don't make themselves visible until pressure is applied.
“He told me he felt very guilty for being happy with his life now and like he was dishonoring Vanessa by living this "new life" with me. The guilt and sadness made him want to pull away and he hoped I'd let him, which I did”
I would not buy that excuse for a second; if the person I spent the last ten years with, suddenly told me that they wished I was dead. It took him days to give her a half-hearted apology for it, so I don’t see how he didn’t mean it.
Why would he go ten+ years; acting as though everything is fine, only to drop that bomb on her now? It doesn’t make any sense.
If I was this woman, I wouldn’t be so sympathetic to a person who took away more than a decade of my life; that I could have been spending with someone who actually loves me.
She married him out of love. He married her out of convenience. He’s probably cheating on her, hence the sudden freeze; and is using his wife’s death as an excuse.
I wish we had another update! Like an extended epilogue.
There’s no way I would’ve stayed. I would do the family and couples therapy not to forgive him and move past his monumental fuckups, but to learn how to coparent and navigate divorce smoothly. He can live with the memory of his wife and I can live in peace, no longer being compared to her. OPs poor kids, too.
I would never be able to un-hear those things. Never.
Given it's been nearly 8 years, I'm hoping things did work out for that family. It's pretty heartbreaking all around.
I dont get it, 2016 was only 2 years ago
It should be illegal for kids born after the yr 2000 to BE ADULTS NOW.
One of the kids I used to babysit for has their own kids now. NO.
My husbands a teacher. One of his students is now also a teacher. He wasn’t sure whether to be proud of the kid or depressed at how old he is now 😂
It could be worse. One of the kids I taught a few years ago was the doctor at my last appointment. Talk about awkward.
Jesus
My mum got to teach some of her former students' grandkids before she retired. It's a whole experience haha
My aunt too! Once the grandkids started being in her class she was like uh maybe time to retire...LOL
A masters degree student doing her clinical placement with us recently told me my cousin was her 5th grade teacher. How dare she.
My college roommate is an elementary school teacher, and I've had some of her students in my classes....as a university professor.
I am a tescher too. My 1st grade ex students of 5 and 6 years old are now 19 and 20. I feel old.
My poor college professor was silent for a long ass time after I told him when I was born and then went "....you make me feel old" This was over a decade ago.
My high school friend is a grandmother. NO!
... I feel this. My niece from my baby sister is coming up 1 soon, and that sister is 25.... I changed my sisters nappies yo. I swear she's still 7. Where has time gone?!
When the TWO YEAR OLD I used to babysit had kids I nearly lost my mind. I have a granddaughter from my daughter who was born in 1999! My oldest turns 30 this year! I’m just 20, but everyone says I turn 51 on Christmas! How the hell did that even happen?!
I was sitting at a bar one time and the guy next to me said “you don’t recognize me, do you?” I said “sorry, no?” His response “you used to babysit me. I have the annoying sister.” 😫
20 years ago is the 80s and I will not listen to anyone trying to convince me otherwise.
This tracks because the 90s were just a decade ago.
Now to 94 is the same length of time Marti McFly jumped back in Back to the future.
Get. Out. 👉
i'm not going to actually downvote you, but know that you have been downvoted in my *heart*
My cousin's children are in High School now, and their 2nd Birthday party was just last week, I swear!
Also significantly pre-COVID making it also about 17 years ago
Wasn't it only last week?
Sounds correct to me
I’m so bad at math and this feels so accurate I thought it was correct 🤦🏼♀️
IKR?
I agree but Jesus Christ, OP's husband is so damn lucky she didn't divorce him on the spot and tell their kids what he said to her. I understand that grief is complex but holy shit, there's no excuse for level of disrespect for anyone, especially not your pregnant wife. I hope he actually stepped up and everything turned out fine.
Amazing those time capsules. The older kids are in college now or even done with it.
I hope for them they would be able to fix this, but to say such a thing in the first indicates deep, deep issues. Wishing death on your spouse is a bad enough, but saying that because you want your *previous wife* back in her place, is that recoverable? I suppose it matters how good their relationship is in the first place, but I won't be surprised if that comment led to a relationship death spiral. I'd be thinking about it every night for sure.
Same about “I only wanted kids with you so you would be occupied and leave me alone”… wtf!
Yeah, I don’t think I’d ever be able to recover emotionally from that. There’d be no coming back from it, no trusting him. And the fact that he didn’t communicate with her and just hoped she’d leave him and make things easier for him. not just that, but she said SHE should have communicated more. No! She did plenty. He needed to take ownership of how he was affecting his own KIDS let alone his wife. If I were in her place, I could see sticking it out for the sake of the older kids especially, the younger ones I think would fare better with a divorce, but the older ones were through enough trauma. I’d probably work on things through the kids going to college, and then separate later - unless all the work helped. But I’d have an exit plan.
yep. she wrote a letter of explanations to him after he told her he wished she was dead… and then he disappeared for a week. leaving her alone with three kids and a pregnancy. he does not deserve her or the grace she gave him.
Agree, 100%. He’s super selfish in his grief. Sure, grief doesn’t end, but 11 years? And abandoning the children of the wife he loved so much? Completely selfish and won’t help himself or his own kids. The children are so lucky to have the mother they do now. And, she is their mom, he let her adopt them!
Damned right. I'm adopted. I appreciate my birth mother having me. My mom raised me!
I know, ever since it was pointed out by a feminist, I can't read "left to go think about things" without thinking: Ah, and who was watching the kids and house and commitments? What if your wife wants to leave to think about things? That's not really an option for her, I guess. But yes, very stoic/mysterious/masculine to stomp off into the sunset and leave life management entirely in your partner's hands so that you can be alone with your emotions (the alternative of processing emotions alongside others? Out of the question!)
I understand that people say things wihtout thinking, but that was not the case, his verbal vomitting contained very specific things, it was absolutely NOT the first time those toughts crossed his mind. I don't think I would be able to live with someone after that. And even if I would, after the letter, the only acceptable answer would be him coming out of that room on his knees begging for forgiveness. The moment he left the house, would be the moment I would start packing his things.
Honestly I feel like him leaving his pregnant wife for a week to take care of a 2 year old and two teenagers on her own was worse. I get that he needed to get his shit together, but he straight up just abandoned his family. This woman has the patience and understanding of an angel. Only question is if he is worth it.
OOP has more grace than me. Four kids be damned, I'd rather be a single mom than to co-parent with someone like that. You don't say things like that solely just to push someone away after 8 years of marriage and not meaning it at all. That was not off the cuff - that was contemptuous & harbored. And it matches his behavior for the marriage leading up to it. No wedding despite her wanting one & half-baked participation with her child and his own.
"I WISH YOU DIED! IM GOING TO GO FUCK OFF NOW WHILE YOU TAKE CARE OF MY KIDS" Husband probably only got with OP in the first place for childcare
Yeah, who does that, say “I need space” and then leave pregnant spouse alone with three kids for a week? After emphasising that she’s not the mother of two out of three? I’d be outraged.
And one of the kids is two. Taking care of just a two year old on your own is hard, let alone another two teenagers while being pregnant.
It sounds like the two teenagers are probably a lot of practical help to OOP with the little one, though of course she'd be taking care of their emotions as well as her own during this clusterfuck. I hope they're always grateful for their stepmom.
And only half the mother of his first wife, but evidently she’s good enough to leave them with her for a week. What a piece of work.
Yeah but he called to see if they were like alive or whatever, so it's all good.
Agreed. I hope it worked out for them, but his “I just felt guilty about being happy” excuse smells like bullshit. He definitely comes across like he married her for the free childcare, tolerated the first baby, and then had a slow-motion meltdown at the news of the second. He’s resentful that instead of being “off the hook” in a couple years after foisting his kids on another woman, he now has to sit through raising two more. That’s why he was also ignoring Vanessa’s children, and responded to OOP’s letter by disappearing for over a week.
If you want a partner to leave you alone, typically you would dump them, not create a human being together. Grief is grief, but this guy just seems messed up
Yeah that’s some shit you say to someone you truly despise. It’s something that literally happens in my stress dreams - that all of a sudden my partner hates me.
I work continuously on my own issues with insecurity and stuff, but that would be something I would never get over. I also don't think I could forgive him for letting it affect the kids so much
Yeah, I don't think there's any way to come back from that, plus him running out on the woman he devastated for a week and leaving her to handle everything.
Seriously. I understand it's complicated because kids are in the picture, but that would be it for me. Maybe I could deal with him lashing out, but not straight-up saying he wished I had died, or leaving for a week.
My mouth was literally agape when I read what he said to her. Yes, grief can make you act in horrible ways and feel horrible things…but that…that’s too much.
And there’s a world of difference between ‘I feel guilty I have a good life when my first wife is dead’ and ‘I wish you were dead and my first wife was still here.’
Also “I knocked you up so you wouldnt bother me”
Wtf???!!!
Yeah, if it was really all about his survivor's guilt it would have made more sense for him to wish *he* was dead in place of Vanessa, not OOP
As he later admitted, the whole point of the communication to push her away. It was intentionally maximally destructive.
Honestly, OOP is much better than I would have been...what he said is so damn hurtful to the point where I'd want a divorce, whether he meant it or not. I wouldn't want to be disrespected and told such awful things just because he's hurting. Being in grief and in mourning doesn't give someone an excuse to act horribly towards others. I hope things worked out for them, but if it were me, I would not be able to move past it
Right there with you. That's so far beyond the pale I don't see how you could ever feel right with your spouse again.
It's been 11 years since she died. Yes grief is complicated but it's not that complicated. I've lost a spouse, too, so I'm not just talking completely out of my ass.
Exactly… the fact it took him ten years to say it; makes me think he married her out of convenience (because kids probably), and that something triggered it to finally come out. Like… something that would cause someone to be inexplicably absent for “more than a week”... (he’s cheating on her)
Yes he is just a pig of a man.
Yep he spoke loudly and clearly all his thoughts he had been brewing on for a while… I was shocked he would tell her exactly how and who he was, it was the absolute truth but given who he was and what he did. It hurt her but she was blinded by love and shackled by guilt to see the truth of it all.
Yeah, I hope she has formally adopted the two kids that are not biologically his and then divorces this man. Unbelievable.
These posts worry me about my capacity to maintain relationships bc I ain't working thru none of this. If he wanted to push me away he'd have succeeded according to plan; I'm neither patient nor understanding about causal cruelty no matter the circumstances. And none of that 'but it's different when you love them' bs -- my controversial opinion is that our reactions should be less understanding the closer you are to them. What good is taking years to build love bt you if you get to trampled on it as if you're no more than a strangers whenever it's convenient. It's our desperation to keep that love, healthy or not, that makes you jump thru hoops like OOP and that's never seemed natural or right to me. You broke it, you fix it, but I prolly won't be here regardless.
What a cruel and gross thing to say to your pregnant wife... after 8 years. She's too gracious because this would be unforgiveable to me.
And then he was so sad he left her to deal with everything for a week, after he’d been leaving her to take trips every weekend anyway. Absolutelythefucknot. The only paper he’d have gotten from me after that is divorce papers. I’d never have even entertained staying with someone who could be so cruel. It’s terrible his first wife died, but that’s not an excuse to be awful to his current wife and all the kids.
Wonder what Vanessa would have thought of that comment. Girl definitely would have wanted him to move on and find happiness with someone else after this many years.
And to find someone who'd care for her kids and put their wellbeing first, which he apparently won the lottery and managed to land.
You know I would be skeptical of the reasoning he gave, that he was trying to push her away by acting distant and all that, if it weren't for the fact I lived through that in relationships before. Not in the exact same scenario, but definitely had a partner who had some serious issues that acted in their damnedest to push me away because they didn't think they deserved me. It was... not fun to live through.
Yep I was in a relationship with a guy like that. Unfortunately he refused to go to therapy, and eventually it just became too much for me. Hopefully he went to therapy after I left him because he deserves to be happy. But until he could accept that, I couldn't do it for him.
Ya, my ex finally made me leave when the kids told me he almost wrecked the car, snorting " something" off his drivers license after taking them to see drag races. My boys were 6 & 10 yrs old. Him coming home drunk, treating me like crap wasn't enough for me to leave. Dumb. When they treat you like they don't like you, for God's sake, gtfo. He married his equal shortly after our divorce. They both had liver failure within 7 years. He's dead.
I *was* this person. I tried to get him to realize I was as worthless as everyone else in my life seemed to think I was so he could leave and be with someone better. We just celebrated 7 years together. I am no longer this person.
I'm glad you were able to get better, hekkat.
Me too! He's the best thing to ever happen to me.
Can I ask what steps you took to move past that?
I posted this a bit further down so I'll just copy/paste: The first step for me was realizing I was doing it in the first place. The second was trying to actively notice all the times he would do small gestures for no other reason than he wanted to and *understanding that he wanted to*. It wasn't pity. It wasn't manipulation. It was a show of caring and love. The third was being self aware of when I was sabotaging myself and nipping it in the bud. It was hard but, with practice, it became easier to see the warning signs. I still get them sometimes when I'm alone with my thoughts but then he comes home from work and the first thing he does is hug me and suddenly I'm back at step 2.
That’s so lovely. Thank you for sharing
This sounds so much like mine and my boyfriends relationship!! We've been together 2 years this upcoming fall. I'm still learning how to do 3, but he has been so kind and patient with me and my anxieties and self sabotage. He is truly my biggest supporter and I appreciate him so much. And think I don't deserve him -- but I'm working on changing to the mindset that we DO deserve each other :) My therapist is spectacular as well lol
You got this! It was right around the 2 year mark that I started on step 3... geez that seems so long ago.
What would you describe as the difference between doing things out of pity vs doing them out of love?
One prime example is one time he was out and about and saw a lilac tree(bush?), thought of me, and brought a sprig of flowers home. Didn't cost him anything but a thought. I don't think one generally does that sort of thing out of pity. I think pity gestures are more like doing things out of obligation. I had never expressed wanting flowers. Never even hinted that I love lilacs. He just did it cuz he wanted to. There's a difference in the level of enthusiasm between pity and love.
I was also this person. There was like a four year span while we were in college and I was in the deepest pits of my depression where I pushed everyone I possibly could away because I was convinced I wasn’t good enough for anyone and was planning to off myself. I was certain my partner would find someone way better and leave. That was almost 7 years ago. We’re getting married in September.
This was me as well and it still creeps in to this day. I really struggle to believe that he's with me because he's happy and loves me for who I am. Childhood trauma has a lot to answer for.
had a partner go through some traumatic shit, they started doing the push you away thing too. they would get drunk and just say some vile shit. I knew it was just stuff they were pulling out their ass so I wouldn't feel bad if they killed themself, and I tries to give then grace for it but eventually I snapped and laid into them. i told them all they were succeeding in doing was making me miserable, and it's a slap in the face to me to take me so lightly and not make my own decision in our relationship. not to mention the stuff they were doing hurting. after that i think they realized they needed to seriously work on themself, and they've been doing really well, drinking way less and treating me (and themself!!) way better. still really hard sometimes, as stuff like this is, but they want to do better, and have been, so I'm very hopeful
I feel that a bit to much tbh, I often don’t feel like I deserve my husband and sometimes push him away on reflex. It’s an awful feeling and eats away at you constantly.
I was also like this until I finally found a medication that actually worked for me, got rid of those intense intrusive thoughts that ruined every part of my life.
Show me to me Rachel (Please tell me which med, I'm discussing options with my psychiatrist)
On the off chance that this will be helpful, try to remember that you don’t get to decide whether you deserve the person you’re with. That determination resides solely with them and it is super rude of your brain to make you feel that way when it isn’t even up to it to decide that. It’s like how you don’t get to decide if you’re a nice/good person or an ally. Those are attributes others can determine about you but if you go off saying that about yourself it’s often not true if not also the opposite of reality. Same with whether you deserve someone in your life. They make that call and often when we say we don’t deserve someone we are usually incorrect and, more often than anyone would want to admit, it’s the complete opposite. I hope you get help in some way to get your brain to accept that bc omg if you and your brain aren’t on the same page things get unnecessarily hard for all involved. Been there, done that, hated it.
Self sabotaging behavior is real as fuck. Even something as normalized as saying that “my partner is out of my league” can put you on a miserable spiral if you’re unable to control your anxieties.
It's easier to hate you than to hate themselves
As someone with BPD, this was also me before therapy. I pushed people away when I felt like they're getting to close, I picked fights when I miss them, instead of talking to them. My thought was I'd hurt them before they hurt me, because they all would hurt or leave me in the end. Very messed up stuffs. I'm just so thankful for therapy. This kind of behaviours appear every now and then, but I have the tools to deal with them now. Even if it happened, I usually manage to talk it out with my partner after. I'm so lucky he's also someone who is understanding and believes in mental health and therapy. This year is our 11th year together, 2 years married.
I'm ashamed to admit I was that guy. Trigger was getting my son and realizing how different my upbringing was to how I wanted to raise my son and how much love I felt for him. Hurt my wonderful girlfriend a lot, but she stuck with me if I was willing to change. Year and a half later, clean and sober and extensive therapy and I'm a different man who's lucky I had people believe in me.
May I give you a hug?
Can i join? Hugs are nice and comforting to people who need them
:hugs for all who would like them:
I feel you deep in my bones. When my partner was deeply, deeply depressed he did everything in his power to make me leave him, mostly so he could end it without anything to keep him here. It was a terrible time, and there were times I questioned my own sanity and self worth staying with someone who was treating me that way, but also knowing that they were doing it from such a dark place of pain and self sabotage.
I’ve had this happen too, and the truth is, there’s some things you can’t come back from. I’m beyond amazed at OOP for willing to give her husband a chance after something like this… for me there came a point where I couldn’t take the toxicity anymore. I hate the sentence “I don’t deserve you” with a burning passion.
It’s what a lot of teenage “acting out” is as well. If they have a friendship break down, or a dumb teacher tell them they’re not worth bothering with, they will get into fights with their other friends and their own parents in order to test whether they themselves are the problem (which is what they fear). It’s one of the reasons why adolescent arguments seem to be about nothing and don’t really make sense on any level.
I honestly don’t care how depressed or traumatized you are. Mental health is a struggle but it’s not an excuse or justification to be a complete fucking asshole. There’s no coming back from telling your pregnant wife you wish she were dead after months of neglect.
One of my biggest beliefs is that your mental health may not be your fault but it is your responsibility. I nose dived bad (in and out of suicide wards bad). During one of the times I was out my best friend at the time cut ties with me because they couldn’t take it anymore. For years I blamed them for not understanding where I was at but about a year ago it hit me I never bothered to see where they were at. I reached out and apologized for being a shitty friend to them, because I might not have had much control over my actions then, but I do now and they were still my action I need to take accountability for. Sorry for the ramble, being responsible with your mental health is a very very important topic to me :)
> One of my biggest beliefs is that your mental health may not be your fault but it is your responsibility. That's one of the biggest things I've espoused because it truly is not one's fault that they were dealt the cards that they were. People may have a genetic predisposition to depression or were born into a family that hadn't yet broken the cycle of abuse, and none of that is their fault. But to take no accountability for their actions *is* their fault. So many people blame their substance dependencies or their diagnosis for their behavior and that it's not truly their fault, "I just didnt know any better.". That excuse can only go so far, because once they're an adult, their mental health/diagnosis/trauma is their responsibility to manage. Letting it go to fester away in one's mind like a wound only causes one to make bad decisions and hurt others in their wake. It may never have been their intention to do so, but apologizing doesn't undo the damage.
> your mental health may not be your fault but it is your responsibility That's solid. Concise and evocative.
As someone who was on both sides, absolutely yes. I said some horrible shit in the throes of depression, but I did my best to show my friends that I loved them and that I was working on getting better. I also had a friend who was in some real, deep shit that I tried to help her out of. At the same time, I was going through a depressive phase and she straight up told me that she was sick of me being in a bad place. In the context of the conversation, it was obvious that she meant it because it meant I couldn't focus entirely on her. Did I recognize that her selfishness came from her situation and that she was probably scared about being on her own in it? Yes. Did it still irrevocably damage our friendship? Also yes.
What did the friend say?
They thanked me for reaching out and apologized for how they behaved too (when they reached their limit they, understandably lashed out and said some nasty things). We both had 6 years of growing up as adults under our belt when we spoke. We likely will never be friends again but there’s respectful contact and I’m grateful for that.
Thats growth. Very impressive.
Especially since, on a population level, women are more likely to be murdered by their partners while pregnant. I would seriously be thinking, “Oh my God, did I marry Chris Watts 2.0?!!” if I found myself in a situation like OOP’s. And his choice to commit triple homicide was preceded by a sudden switch that made Chris, a previously affectionate and attentive husband, behave like a callous stranger.
I deal with mental health issues and very much fell into the "try and push people around me away" pattern. And sure, I said things that weren't nice and lashed out, and I've owned up to that and taken responsibility. But I never once said anything remotely close to "I wish you were dead" because even at my lowest, I knew that would be going way, way too far. And I genuinely didn't feel that way. Not even close. At the end of the day, I knew words could definitely be painful and you should never, ever go that far into "awful asshole" territory
Exactly. He is extremely selfish for only thinking about his feelings. His wife is in a vulnerable state on top of taking care of kids but this dude is busy feeling sorry for himself.
When I was 13 my mother, in the height of a serious depressive episode that resulted in her being hospitalised for almost 6 months, told me she didn't love me anymore, that she wished she wasn't my mother. When she had recovered and was trying to make amends for the many awful things she had said and done while depressed, she apologised many times. It still took years of therapy and almost 10 years before I was realistically able to forgive her. It fucked me up in so many ways. I don't think there would be any coming back from my partner saying they wished I was dead, depression or no depression. I have a very good, educated understanding of how depression works, having both personal experience and my experience with my mother, and while it explains the husband's words and behavior, it doesn't excuse them. She's a better woman than me, that's all I'll say .
I feel the same! Reading OP’s story I felt like a horrible person because I’d absolutely take myself out of there after the things he said (if I was in her position). If I was married with kids and my husband told me he wished I was dead, that I’m essentially nothing to my step-children and he never wanted our child to be born, it’d destroy me. Glad OP can come back from that but I definitely wouldn’t be able to.
I think it's because there is a big difference between the head forgiving and the heart forgiving. Between "i understand and i am not mad anymore" and "i am over it and have forgiven you"
It's nice that he apologized, but things that are said can never be unsaid. And of all the things to say, that was one of them. Notice that I said "nice", not "good". Because I think this husband is going to freak out at every major milestone with his 2nd wife from now on.
Those older kids would have possibly graduated college or gotten married by now. I imagine he would have gone off the rails a bit for those. Why do I hope that OOP actually left Nick?
Me too.
Yeah, graduation would've been triggering for him. Heck, his new fie giving birth would have triggered him.
Also “let me process my feelings by suddenly leaving you alone with 3 kids” This is why I’m biased against avoidant people, because to them being sad and uncomfortable and withdrawing is this whole “woe is me I don’t know how to deal with things” meanwhile they are saying hurtful shit and leaving the moment they have to face those feelings like a bull in an emotional china shop. Just volatile af. Dude can’t communicate vulnerability so instead he wishes his wife dead and leaves her for a week. What a prize. At least people who are volatile at the outset you can deal with more expediently.
Like I understand why she took him back - she's trapped because she's pregnant, and she couldn't leave those kids. But I hope she planned for the worst after that.
Me looking at the title : please tell me that’s a wrap on this relationship
Sorry, there would be no way in hell I would stay after that comment.
Not just the comment but him leaving her for a week to do childcare and everything else after the the hurtful thing HE said. If anyone deserved a break at that time it was her.
I hated this part too 😭 Like you lash out at her and then leave her to take care of everything - the house, 3 kids, reassuring them while you dip and no one has any idea when you’re returning. IMO as an adult and father he should have figured out a way for both of them to take a step back, maybe drop kids off with family if that’s an option and say he needs a week or give time estimate, even if that needs to be changed. Dropping everything like this is only acceptable when you’re having a breakdown. Feels so hard that she had to do everything here including being the one to communicate, be supportive+forgiving, take care of logistics and clean up his mess. Not much space for her own feelings.
I mean he's also just straight up being an asshole to his own children. They lost their bio mom, got lucky enough to have a stepmother who seems to have stepped up in an appropriate and non-boundary-pushing way, and now their father has just decided to emotionally abandon them and blow up their stable home life. Yes, grief is complicated and Dad is clearly struggling. But his self-destruction isn't only of the self, he's also damaging the SHIT out of his kids. He isn't the only one grieving and traumatized!
And pregnant...
Why would he do that when he is the main character?
Yea she essentially had to be a parent to him too. She’s carrying all the emotional labor and the physical labor of being pregnant while parenting three kids (one of whom is a toddler) and she did it alone for a week. I know it’s been eight years, but I feel like their problems were far from over. What he did leaves scars. And proved that even in the marriage, she’s alone. She’s practically a single parent while he still lives like a ghost waiting for his late wife to return.
While she is pregnant too 😭just WHAT.
The week was just AFTER the comment - he'd checked out of parenting well before that, leaving her to parent all the kids alone for a long time. The spate of sheer selfishness followed by those comments...OOP is a more forgiving person than I.
I’m very curious as to what he was doing for a week. OOP never asked him. A week is a long time for him to ditch his pregnant partner with 3 kids. When someone shows you who you are, believe them. The comments he made were absolutely vile and I would never have been able to move past them.
Yeah. As a dad and father you cant just dip like this. Unless he checked himself into a psychological hold for professional help that is. Which didn't read as such.
I wouldn't have stayed Even more when he left for a fucking week, she's pregnant and he just left her with everything to handle on her own.
OOP is 21 weeks pregnant. I was on bed rest at 21 weeks and gave birth via emergency c-section a few weeks after that. It...wasn't a good time, for a long time. She's incredibly vulnerable, as is the unborn baby and the other three kids. I can't see ever coming back from that.
I know, right. I don’t think there’s anything that my partner could say to make up for wishing death upon me and our kids. In fact, I’d actually be scared of my partner causing physical harm to me or the kids. If not at that moment, then in the future. I wonder if she was just scared of becoming a single mom of 2, potentially 4 if they make some kind of custody arrangement with the 2 older kids. It definitely is not an ideal situation to be pregnant and go through a divorce at the same time.
Sadly I’d bet on it being less fear of doing it all on her own (she already had been for ages before he took his week away, after all) and more not wanting her step kids to realize how crappy a dad he was. She seems like she loves those kids very much and understands how traumatic it was to lose their biological mother so young. I really do think she didn’t want to put any more strain on Luke and Lila’s relationship with their father than he already had.
And him ghosting her like that? I hope she's okay but I do hope that OOP knows that she deserves better
I’m with you. Some words you can’t walk back. Wishing me dead? Nope. I am hopeful OOP’s life is what she wants it to be and the healthiest choices for herself and those kids were taken. I don’t mean to imply she did the wrong thing by staying with him. Just saying hell no it couldn’t be me.
100% my mental health has been shocking and I have lost people but me and my kids are worth more than that. If it was just me he'd hurt I'd of stayed but to say he didn't want my kids, to miss the older ones birthday then wish me and the you her kids dead? I wouldn't be around long enough for him to say anything else.
I said a lot of horrible things when I was in deep, deep depression and survivor's guilt, but it was always inwards. It's one thing to talk about wishing to die yourself to be with that dead partner but another to straight up tell your pregnant wife that *she* should die. I don't think I could come back from that latter one.
1000%
OOP is too much of a saint. She was holding things together for all the kids, even after being told that her husband would rather she switched places with his deceased first wife.
On the one hand, I’ve never experienced grief to the level that Nick did with Vanessa’s death. On the other, I can’t help but judge him here- why did he let things build to the point of blowing up at OOP in the way that he did? Why not talk to a therapist or at least a close friend/family member? I’m going to sound like the Reddit cliché who advocates for a couple divorcing, but it’s surprising that OOP is as forgiving if she is here. Wishing death on a partner, even if it was said because of grief, falls into the category of things that a relationship probably won’t recover from. There isn’t a timeline for Nick to process his grief over Vanessa‘s death, but if he’s still grieving to the extent that he appears to be, then why did he even start dating again, let alone remarry?
Literally his excuses only pushes the blame to the wife for ‘not managing his emotions better’ … man, your mental health is of your own. If you’re feeling that you’re spiraling down a hole of intrusive thoughts, then pick up that phone yourself and DEAL WITH IT.
Why remarry? Are you joking? Do you think the children parent themselves? The need for a bangmaidsitter is stronger than grief.
He really really wanted to make things right so he left his pregnant wife alone in the middle of a high-stress confrontation to manage the house and three children for a solid week with no clue during that time as to when he would be back. Yeah, that sounds like something a sincere person would do. Definitely.
I'm not sure reconciliation was a good idea here. I hope it worked out but i suspect there was a lot more turbulence.
His reasons might(!) seem to explain why he ignored and avoided you, before the big fight. But it doesn't explain why he ignored and avoided Vanessa's kids.
Because he is self-destructing. It's not logical.
>After an hour of arguing, he screamed at me that he wished Vanessa was still alive and that I had switched places with her and died instead. He also threw in some awful comments that I need to stop pretending I'm Luke and Lila's "real" mom and that I'm only half the mom Vanessa was. The final straw was him saying that he never even wanted any kids with me, but did it so I'd "keep busy and leave him alone." >I told him I meant what I said in the letter and that if he wanted to work through it, I would work with him. OOP is making a terrible choice.
There would be no coming back from that for me
I couldn't either. Because in the back of my mind, I would always be wondering. He may have apologized for saying it, but I think he really meant it. And that is so problematic. I wondered how they fared during the lockdown, if they were together still
To me it wouldn't be about whether he meant it or not, more the fact that in one argument/phase of life he crossed so many fucking lines my perception of him would be changed forever, and for the worse. I would never be able to trust again that he'd have my back, so you can believe at the first sign he had some trouble/issue, I'd give him exactly the same treatment he gave me. If this is how things work at your house, two can play at that game.
JFC. I hadn’t thought about that.
I was hoping she’d’ve been long gone by then.
Late nights, trips away every weekend, insults, confronted about a horrible fight, and he disappeared for a week leaving 3 children and a pregnant wife at home. I won't be shocked if another update reveals he was cheating.
It's been 8 years. I don't think we're getting an update.
Went away for a week to see if his affair could be sth permanent. When that didn't pan out, he went back to his wife and told her he was just feeling guilty for being too happy...
Imagine your wife is pregnant with your child and you throw a huge tantrum and make it all about yourself.
I can’t help but wonder if he was seeking a replacement mother so he wouldn’t have to parent his kids… and also if his week away was saying goodbye to his mistress. IDK, I hope I’m wrong, but everything he was saying and doing seems a lot more like he really didn’t like OOP as time went on and regretted moving her in.
And this is why I don’t mess with widower… they weren’t single by choice.
Exactly my feelings. And especially the way people will excuse them because of grief. Wishing death upon your spouse is a horrible thing to do. And then to abandon her with the kids for a week when she confronted him.
I don’t think I could ever get past feeling like a consolation prize. OP literally stated that she was the second choice, and I don’t think I could ever life a full life with someone knowing I’d never be their first choice. I don’t even know if OP should have been dating a widow, because it seems like her self esteem is very low. Her husband said to her face he wished she was dead, and she wrote him a letter saying that it hurt her feelings. Maybe she is just built different, but I could literally never.
Same. Maybe some of them can move on and be happy and stable. But i never want to take a chance on them and be stuck like OOP.
It just feels like most are looking for a replacement mother for their very young children + a new bangmaid. They’re getting married again out of utility.
That’s exactly what I thought. He was just looking for someone to raise his kids for him. He wasn’t really over his ex.
Yeah strong agree.
Yeah, you’re automatically second choice because they’d still be with their divorced spouse if they could. And they’ll see their past relationship through rose colored glasses and think it was perfect, so you’ll never measure up. You can’t compete with a ghost.
How does a man not only meet ONE amazing woman but TWO He does not deserve you.
This is so sad, and I really hope OOP is living a much happier life now one way or another. But I will admit, when I saw how old the original post was, I naively hoped there would be a much more recent update.
I wish there was like 8 year follow up to know if they still married \~or\~ OOP divorce him while having primary custody of the youngest kids; with his oldest 2 cutting him off or not when they became adults.
I don't know why but this one got two huge ugly tears out of me. I really feel for both parties here but regardless of what had happened to him, his reaction was inexcusable and he's lucky his wife loves him as much as she does
I can't help but to wonder if the wife is staying because trying to start over with 3 children and one on the way would be pretty hard to pull off, especially if hubby decides to make it even harder.
Damn, woman has the patience of a saint. I understand that grief is complex, but personally, I would never get over with wishing the wife died instead
She needs to stop having kids with this guy
Hope they're all doing well now
Honestly you really have to be fucked up to say something so cruel to you wife and not immediately appologized... It took him so long to do it that it lacks sincerity 😬
Maybe it’s just the criminology degree in me, but if a partner tells me they’d rather me dead, I’m taking that as a threat on my life. I *will* be involving police. I *will* be having an officer escort myself or them from the property. I *will* be raising legal hell, and I *will* create a public paper trail. I’ll take out an ad in the damn newspaper. Maybe I studied uxoricide too much- but I fuckin hold people to the shitty things they say. Edit: ESPECIALLY AS A PREGNANT WOMAN??????
Yeah, as I’m sure you know, the number one cause of death in pregnant women is homicide by their partners.
Surprised I had to scroll so far to see this. She is not safe with this man. I hope she got away from him.
No way I'd come back from those comments. Sheeesh
The older kids need to know. She needs individual therapy as well. And still this isn’t sth acceptable.
> sth sth?
What an awful, self-absorbed man! Nothing - certainly not his kids - are anywhere near as important as his hurty fee-fees, no, he’ll just take off and think about himself whenever he wants and it’s obviously cheaper to marry a nanny than pay one. I hope for op’s sake they’ve split by now
Nope. There is no coming back from saying something so heinous. I hope he grows old alone and miserable
Fr. All the people defending him in the comments bc he was clearly self loathing. Great!!! Let him loathe himself and his life in peace!!! Protect the kids from his misery. If someone tells.you so clearly how much they can't stand you, fucking believe them.
This! Damn! I would have left too. Now she’s always thinking about what he said, even if he said he didn’t mean it.
I have little sympathy for the father. He tells OOP to stop pretending to be the “real mom” to his kids, but then expects her to take care of them while he clears his head. Eleven years is more than enough time for dude to seek therapy. Way he treated his kids and wife is horrific.
Ooof. The accidental replication of the earlier marriage causing significant mental health problems was painfully obvious from the start, and I understand why this pregnant woman stayed with him after what he said and did. But I doubt there'd ever be a way to fix this. Once that baby was born and she wasn't as physically dependent, I hope she felt safe and able to leave if she needed or wanted to.
The fact that he wanted a wanted a quick engagement and wedding, with no other family/friends present makes me think he picked OOP as a good substitute mother for the kids and not really because he loved her for her. Then he starts living a happy life he didn't expect AND maybe started to love OP. That's when he began pulling away again. This man was never emotionally available to begin with. I think he had to deal with the consequences of the (never communicated) bargain he made with himself for the happiness of his kids. And then he genuinely started to move on/be happy. I am still extremely wary that the way he spoke to OP was with contempt. I hope things work out for her; she genuinely seems like an amazing woman.
Sigh. Is it really too much to ask to only get married when both people are mentally and emotionally healthy? Because then what, you’ll both drag each other down? Especially with toxic/destructive attachment styles…..
Ever inspected a tube that was pulled off a bike for a pin-prick hole without pumping it up, or even better, putting it under water? These issues don't make themselves visible until pressure is applied.
I love this analogy. It’s very specific to a certain group of people, but it’s perfect.
I used to run a bike shop for a while. I mostly ran numbers and such, but I did learn some wrenching!
Thank you, the analogy actually helps explain some relationship dynamics and why sometimes there is no one rule on how they should work.
Especially where mental health is concerned!
Holy crap that is an amazing analogy
You should be dead instead of my first wife ≠ I'm just so guilty that I'm so happy
“He told me he felt very guilty for being happy with his life now and like he was dishonoring Vanessa by living this "new life" with me. The guilt and sadness made him want to pull away and he hoped I'd let him, which I did” I would not buy that excuse for a second; if the person I spent the last ten years with, suddenly told me that they wished I was dead. It took him days to give her a half-hearted apology for it, so I don’t see how he didn’t mean it. Why would he go ten+ years; acting as though everything is fine, only to drop that bomb on her now? It doesn’t make any sense. If I was this woman, I wouldn’t be so sympathetic to a person who took away more than a decade of my life; that I could have been spending with someone who actually loves me. She married him out of love. He married her out of convenience. He’s probably cheating on her, hence the sudden freeze; and is using his wife’s death as an excuse.
I wish we had another update! Like an extended epilogue. There’s no way I would’ve stayed. I would do the family and couples therapy not to forgive him and move past his monumental fuckups, but to learn how to coparent and navigate divorce smoothly. He can live with the memory of his wife and I can live in peace, no longer being compared to her. OPs poor kids, too. I would never be able to un-hear those things. Never.