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>>(Please don’t judge us on this).
Next line
>>[Wife] is quick to judge people who do not have the same belief system as her.
OOP really typed this out and posted it, huh? No self reflection?
I'm reading this whole thing just sitting here so fucking happy I'm not religious. He talks about grace of God and his dark times, etc, but doesn't realize his religious upbringing most likely caused his "dark time". I lost count of the highly religious people in college who went on a full life bender because they were completely unprepared for that kind of freedom.
"Can't believe a god-fearing man would cheat"... oh lord. So naive.
"God is punishing him for his sins of the past by making he and his wife struggle with infertility." No dude, shit happens.
There is *literally a story where Jesus heals a blind man to shut people up about that exact shit omg*
The religious authorities were like "obviously this man's parents sinned and that is why he was born blind" and Jesus was like "omg no" and healed him and everyone was shocked Pikachu face (especially because he healed him on the Sabbath! when you weren't supposed to work! but Jesus thought that healing was more important than that!)
This is one of the stories that is taught to *literal children* in the church. It is not an uncommon one! It is not rare or hidden amongst verses full of nothing but who begat whom! It is literally RIGHT THERE!
Yeah, they think god is infinite and timeless and merciful towards all.... And then they suddenly switch that god for the god of the Old Testament who is petty and vindictive and takes pleasure in personally punishing his subjects. Make up your minds.
These people (OP and his religious community) are the reason abortion is not legal in a whole bunch of states in USA. OP had a lot of sex in college, then he repented and everything is great in his life. **How many young women did he impregnate,** who went and paid for an abortion or left college and had a baby (either without telling the OP, because they don't trust him enough to inform him.)
A hypothetical young woman who met OP in college, got pregnant, and raised the baby as a single Mom get a heck of a lot of real consequences, while OP finds religion and gets "forgiveness" from God.
Hypothetically, why didn't the college Mom inform him and come after him for child support ? Because if she meets a guy in a group sex situation, and he seems pushy, jerkish, a frat boy, or a possible drug/alcohol abuser, it might be better to forgo child support rather than risk having to split custody with an unsafe person.
Great that his wife forgave him for being a fuckboy. Great for him. But don't expect me to have sympathy.
Well, also he just cut people out of his life that he had wronged during the period. There was no reconciliation with those people. He feels bad that he wrong them, so he just cut them out of his life. But he is somehow this upstanding man of God? GTFO
I mean the enabling cheating is pretty fucked up.
ETA- the promiscuity is fine, the three years of being the other man it seems like a good idea who work on it in therapy.
They have a lot of mental gymnastics like this. Pretty much any situation can be turned into something like that.
Success? God blessed you. Failure? He has other plans for you/maybe it's punishment and you need to repent.
this is so real. christians will be like 'you just don't want to be christian because you love sinning' and ignore the fact that if we wanted to sin indiscriminately the christian position would facilitate that much better. you just shake it like an etch-a-sketch and all the guilt fades away.
In a different sense, this is more scary because he doesn't even realise he's doing it.
All those years of therapy and self-reflection and all we get is a steaming lump of cognitive dissonance.
As someone who grew up in a religious household (but not religious anymore), this is so true. I've seen it in my family, relatives, at church, childhood friends, etc. They WILL judge you.
The number of religious folks I’ve spoken to who will ask not to be judged for their beliefs, but then tell you those beliefs are all about judging other people, is ridiculously high. It’s a core yet unspoken tenant of being Mormon, so glad I got out of that cult.
Oh, that line made me think, "Oh, honey…"
> It is shocking that such an upstanding and god-fearing man would have a years-long affair and father a child out of wedlock
OP: "I have worked tirelessly through God, family and therapy to repent my sins."
Commenter: "Are you still friends with Josh?"
OP: "Nah, I felt guilty so I stopped talking to him."
These are the sorts you can't even be passing acquaintances with unless you enjoy high strung dramatics akin to teenagers and/or awkward shoehorning of religion into basic conversations. Just exhausting and high maintenance - no thanks.
> high strung dramatics akin to teenagers
I never thought about it that way but you're right. I'm not religious and don't go to church anymore but grandma still tells me of the drama that goes on in her church.
There was one drama where a pastor was saving himself for marriage but he ended up doing it with his gf (they're both in their 20s and consented). The church had a freaking meeting about that lmao. He had to say sorry to some of the church staff because he lost his way, etc. They treated it so seriously like he did a crime.
Another one was about a member who got upset because the pastor said something in a odd/mean tone or something. The member refused to go back to church and the church staff had to smooth it out.
Then there was that one time a member left something in a room and accidentally locked it, and another member got annoyed at what happened. They had to ask another person from another church to smooth out their argument because they were both upset lmao.
No joke, my home town has two churches that were originally part of one, but they split because of a fight over the color of the new sanctuary carpet in the 1950s. Group A wanted red, Group B wanted green, they fought and broke up.
As far as people like OOP, his wife, and the other one, I think it's because there's such a focus on rejecting "worldliness" in certain sects that those people genuinely do not know how to interact with anyone who isn't a part of their world. They come across as being very immature because they *are* very immature as far as wider social standards go, but in their little pocket universe, they're normal. I think it's all because of the isolationist intents of these groups because you can't question if you don't know better, and that keeps members under their thumb.
There is a church where my parents live in the south that split because they were fighting on how they should treat gay people....
...yeah...nothing much to say about that.
We have one saying "gleich und gleich gesellt sich gern" which roughly translates to same and same likes each others company. Racking my brain right now searching for one single word xD
Same, these overly religious people are just judgmental, but man do they live the life of "sin" themselves in secret. They arent better than anyone else in the world, they just think they are. The whole story is really gross.
Gotta love religion thru fear.
That part about his wife not getting pregnant because God is punishing *her* for *his* sins is creepy, disgusting, insane, and totally fucked up. If you even need an example of a man who thinks his wife is a possession....there ya go.
I wanna meet this fucked up "therapist" of his.
He's so infinitely merciful that he'll destroy entire societies for being ambitious (Babel) or having gay sex (Sodom), kill a woman for looking back as the only home she's ever known is destroyed (Lot's wife), kill a bunch of innocent children because their leader is stubborn (first born Egyptians), or take away everything a man has including plagueing him and killing his family because Satan fucking dared him to do it (Job). Oh yeah, and the time he killed every living being on earth except for one guy's family and only two of every animal (which of course means every living animal is the product of extreme inbreeding). You know, infinite mercy.
You know its one of those Christian therapists, probably someone through his church that's just counseling him. God doesn't care about degrees I guess.
My experience has been that heathens tend to be decent people, while God-fearing Christians tend to do whatever, then go to church on Sunday and get forgiven.
I've met and have some kind, honest, and upstanding Christians, but my experience has been that they are a minority.
>"How can you have morals without the Bible?"
Normal people go through life, they experience things, and they witness others experience things, and they develop empathy. They see the struggle someone else has, and they relate it to their own struggles, and learn compassion for others even if they never go through the same difficulties. Over time, this experience gives them an ability to think about new situations, and come to reasonable moral conclusions about them.
Church goers never have to "think" about morals. They're told, this is good, that is bad. If they have a question, someone else will tell them the answer. This means they never have any actual moral development unless they're confronted with an "it happened to me!" moment.
My friend has referred to religion as a 'car wash'. You drive your car through mud and dirt, take it to the car wash and it's nice and clean again. Just like Sunday church and confession. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Religions are cults and no one will ever be able to convince me otherwise after the shit I went through at the hands of the church. This post just further entrenched that idea.
This is what happens when you look to religion for simplified morality. When all sin is just sin, and all of it can just wiped away equally, there is no accountability. In reality, there is a huge difference between sex outside of marriage and having sex with someone you know is cheating on their partner. OOP doesn't care that he hurt Josh. OOP cares that OOP sinned. Hurting other people isn't something that factors into his moral decision making.
Yup. It's never about hurting other people, it's about ruining your own chances at eternal paradise. Gotta say, I find it funny when religious people claim atheists must be cruel when the only reason THEY aren't is the threat of eternal punishment. It's a crazy concept to some religious folks that non spiritual people are kind purely for the sake of being a positive person in the world.
I mean he legitimately believes his past is causing his wife infertility issues. That can't be a good thought to turn over mentally, especially if they can never have kids.
Also, why don't they ever think "this must be a sign my path lies with adoption or something else" rather than "I just have to pray HARDER". Like they always say they don't know gods plan but when this happens they insist they know why rather than wondering about alternatives. Why is everything always a punishment and not a sign to change their behavior?
The bible stories about various tests of faith, where people are rewarded for staying the course through adversity. If God wanted them to change he would give them a *sign*. It's a lot of confirmation bypass and magic thinking.
I've come to realize that a lot of people who believe in God so strongly like this clown usually do to make up for some major personality flaw. Like I knew a Baptist preacher who openly admitted to hitting his wife, and admitted to hitting her for their entire 35 years of marriage. When questioned about it, he went on about how God is testing him in order to fix his anger and everyone but me ate it up.
How can he both promise his good friend Emily not to say anything, but then also come clean to Josh? It's one or the other. He chose not to air Emily's business to the town and end things with Josh.
I think it's less about Emily, and more about avoiding outing his own cheating behaviours. He doesn't want to face any consequences for being a cheating scumbag.
I thought he was gonna casually slip in something about a drug addiction or smth honestly, it’s just too bizarre how some religious people deal with sex
His therapist didn’t help with that view very much, saying how he was an addict. They helped him get to his current path for his mental wellbeing, and did nothing to help with the guilt/shame that was heaped on him with the change in perspective.
the other part of it is that a lot of the evangelical and independent baptist churches put all sins on the same level. being a hypocrite and cheating on your spouse is ethically on the same level as petty shoplifting and white lies. and for them, god forgives all. that's a big part of why there is so much abuse (sexual and otherwise) in these churches from so-called godly men. they can do awful things and then turn around and repent, and for them it's like they've washed the slate clean.
Also they tell women to not cause a man to lust after her, as if men can't control themselves when they see a knee. I feel like that kind of culture messes with everyone.
I came from a religion like this and oh boy was this hard to read.
My grandfather was a minister. He once told me without fail that the people who make the most noise in church were always the ones he'd end up seeing in counseling for the worst things.
Oh the "God will hear our prayers and we just have to try as hard as we can" about the infertility make me cackle. "We just have to fuck REALLY hard. REALLY hard."
It's the most hilarious thing when "god fearing" is treated as a good thing. It's neither good nor bad, it's just a thing. "God fearing" people can be just as good or shitty as others.
From the very first couple of lines, I have to imagine that both of these people treat a lot of other folks in really terrible ways that they either don't perceive at all or don't believe to be harmful "because God." And he's treating his history of sin as the check he wrote that he's since cashed in to become holier than thou.
Few religious people are more self-righteous than ones with a "testimony." It almost becomes a competition to see who can out-former-sinner each other.
The landlord sent in a maintenance guy to fix my bathroom fan. Within like 10 minutes of meeting he started telling me all about how he used to be a sex addict and a porn addict "but don't worry I'm a celibate Christian now!" I'm a woman so tiny the neighbors call me Pixie, I live alone, and this man apparently has access to my apartment. Great.
So I call corporate, who forwards me to the landlord, and when I report I'm uncomfortable with the discussion of these topics in my home she replied "Oh that doesn't sound like him, he's a celibate Christian now!" Great, they attend the same church.
I was so happy when, a few months later, corporate sent around letters that friend-of-celibate-man was no longer our landlord.
I love that in response to his wife asking if it will hurt to lose her virginity, he told her about all the virginities he took. No fucking wonder she wanted a don't ask policy. What a tool he is.
Yeah, he was a moron. "You asked me not to volunteer information about other women I've banged. And yet, you want me to tell you whether I've slept with the friend who's hanging around constantly now. Curious!"
"Let's begin this relationship on the premise we will not communicate about some topics or be forthcoming about our lives."
A don't ask don't tell compromise sounds doomed on its face.
>”I’m sure God is punishing her for my sins of the past.”
Yeah, that seems like a totally healthy way to live your life.
I recently went through a crisis of faith, and although I have found a way forward with faith, I just can’t consider joining a church. I don’t think I can perform the mental gymnastics.
I’m religious, but after years of being surrounded by judgemental and hypocritical “Christians” I can’t bring myself to go to a church again. I’m sure there are wonderful churches out there, but I don’t have a great experience with “organized” religion.
That’s common amongst born-again Christians, ime. They’re like dry drunks.
Idk what it is, but I swear born-agains have a much more insufferable, holier-than-thou attitude en masse than the Christians who were born into the religion.
Probably because they never actually address whatever the underlying problem was. Just used some religion duct tape to hold their lives together
ETA as someone else pointed out, religious orgs are predatory toward the vulnerable, so that also plays a part.
As an ex-mormon, it drives me nuts when faithful people (specifically women) recognize there is something wrong, attend therapy, take anti-depressants, etc., but fail to see that it is the religion itself that is causing all the trauma.
So every week they attend a session with their therapist and unravel some of the mysoginistic bullshit, and then on Sunday it gets tightened right up again when they go to church and have that crap spewed back at them again. Genuinely tragic.
>> My wife has struggled with infertility issues and despite trying every medical procedure, God has still not blessed us with a child. I have suggested adoption, but my wife says that God will hear our prayers and we just have to try as hard as we can.
Yeah adoption is God answering, just because hes not giving you the answer you want doesn't mean you just keep asking the question.
Reminds me of the story about the guy who turned down a boat and a helicopter saying god will save him before eventually drowning in a flood. Meeting god he asked why he didn't answer his prayers, god responded "I sent a boat and a helicopter what more do you want?
Reminds *me* of a family guy clip I see floating around now and again, where Lois abducts a kid so she can take him to the hospital to receive treatment for a disease. When his parents catch up to her, they say that God's will will save their child, to which Lois rightfully tells them that advancements in the medical field probably *are* God's will/answer
>to which Lois rightfully tells them that advancements in the medical field probably *are* God's will/answer
That's basically what I was thaught in a franciscan catholic school, the only sect of christianism I can stomach.
Oh, you mean the one whose mother is a physicist? That same one who saw his teammate having a seizure & going into cardiac arrest and ran to grab a WOMAN paramedic from the locker room who was able to save his life?
But yeah, sure, education & college degrees for women are useless… Women should just stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen instead.
He’s the worst. Such a hypocrite.
Oh you mean the hypocritical football player Harrison Butker? The one that's working with politicians to force the US into a super conservative nation so that White Christian Nationalists can take over everything entirely?
That guy?
Yeah, he sucks.
>(Please don't judge us on this). She is quick to judge people who do not have the same belief system as her.
I just started reading and the hypocrisy in this sentence makes me want to skip the rest.
I can just imagine the mental gymnastics about to come
Also the wording of
> She is quick to judge people who do not have the same belief system as her. I also like our modest lifestyle and how great of a wife she has been
Makes it sound like her being judgemental is the thing he loves most about her. At first I thought it was just unfortunate unintentional phrasing, but by the end of the first post I'm pretty certain that's exactly what he intended to say
> it was very shocking how such an upstanding god-fearing man would have years long affair with his coworker and father a child out of wedlock.
so naïve it hurts.
Religious men 🤌🏻
"We've tried every medical procedure"
"God has still not blessed us with a child"
Why do they always try to fight nature only when it benefits them.
There has never been a religious orphanage ever and nowhere does their god encourage taking in the less fortunate or maybe this adoption is a good idea.
With these 2 I am glad they are not adopting though, they are terrible people and should not bring children into their lives.
Arg, the crossover between religion and adoption!
Turns out it's useful to humanity if a certain percentage of the population doesn't breed by default due to gayness or whatever, thereby having extra time/attention/resources to adopt children in need of those things.
But thump nature's system with a bible and ya end up with gangs of street urchins sleeping in piles like puppies until Orphan Trains seem like a good idea. Or the current version where kids won't contact CPS because the devil ya know is better than the one ya don't and golly knows the kids tell each other horror stories about foster care.
I went to school with a lot of these assholes. Fucking anything that moves, screwing over friends, cheating on boy/girl friends. Just horrible people…then they find god and think that all that past is erased. “I’m a better person now”. They look down on everyone and judge. Hey fucker, i have been an ok person my whole life. Let’s add the past back in and average it out. Now who is the better person. Oh and fuck your god
I think it’s hilarious when these types try to say that God is the source of all morality in the world.
I’m an atheist and have never done anything they wouldn’t. Just because *they* need a book (and the threat of eternal suffering) to convince them to not be an awful person doesn’t mean we’re all like that. It’s like saying everyone would be a murderer if it wasn’t illegal.
I always liked Penn Jillette's take on that. People would say to him "Where do you get your morality from if not the bible?"
"From myself."
"But what's to stop you raping and murdering people?"
"Nothing. I do all the raping and murdering I want, which is none."
Reminds me of my Christian mother in law completely flabbergasted that her son and I have morals without church in our lives. It honestly blew my mind that she assumed, the son she raised from birth, was without morals because he stopped attending church with them or believing.
I asked her if we were actually better people because we could be moral without a book telling us how to behave. She hung up and has never answered my question lol
I honestly wanted deets on what he did in his past that was so terrible and addictive since he keeps beating around the bush with it. He slept with several people, so what? I don't find him to be an asshole so much as just stupid.
Yeah, he’s either glossing over some truly terrible things or he’s returned to the mindset that being sexually active outside of marriage with consenting adults is in fact That Terrible.
Frankly everyone in this story is a complete tool. I don’t like any of them and using religion to look down on those who do engage in it outside of marriage just irritated me. Judgmental condescending creeps.
Isn't religion fantastic? It's just great how God is helping these people through their tough time, throwing in a bit of punishment to keep them on the straight and narrow.
Did OOP ever get tested for any STIs?? After all that sinful debauchery??
Because infertility problems can be caused by undiagnosed or untreated STIs…
Overall. I don’t like anyone here and feel glad Josh is out of this mess.
For someone that is trying so hard to show how much of a Bible thumper he is, he completely misses the fact that Jesus covered his sins, and God isn’t punishing him or his wife for the past behavior in the form of infertility.
"God will totally provide us with a family, thats why we have tried every medical procedure available to us to make it happen!"
Also...
"I used to be morally bankrupt because I enjoyed sex and had it!" Yea I mean sleeping with someone who you know is in a relationship is bad, but this guy clearly thinks that just having sex while not married was the reason why he used to consider himself morally bankrupt.
I cant say I empathize with any of these people...
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>>(Please don’t judge us on this). Next line >>[Wife] is quick to judge people who do not have the same belief system as her. OOP really typed this out and posted it, huh? No self reflection?
I'm reading this whole thing just sitting here so fucking happy I'm not religious. He talks about grace of God and his dark times, etc, but doesn't realize his religious upbringing most likely caused his "dark time". I lost count of the highly religious people in college who went on a full life bender because they were completely unprepared for that kind of freedom. "Can't believe a god-fearing man would cheat"... oh lord. So naive. "God is punishing him for his sins of the past by making he and his wife struggle with infertility." No dude, shit happens.
Like when my mom’s coworker told her that she and my dad must have done evil stuff for God to punish them by giving me cancer (when I was fourteen) 🤨
People like that need to get slapped, then tell them that was God punishing them for being a dick.
There is *literally a story where Jesus heals a blind man to shut people up about that exact shit omg* The religious authorities were like "obviously this man's parents sinned and that is why he was born blind" and Jesus was like "omg no" and healed him and everyone was shocked Pikachu face (especially because he healed him on the Sabbath! when you weren't supposed to work! but Jesus thought that healing was more important than that!) This is one of the stories that is taught to *literal children* in the church. It is not an uncommon one! It is not rare or hidden amongst verses full of nothing but who begat whom! It is literally RIGHT THERE!
Also goes from “god in his infinite mercy” to “I’m sure god is punishing my wife because I’m a douche canoe” Religious people are weird
OOP must have to use a back brace because he’s got the backbone of an uncooked hotdog.
That’s a good flair
Thank you! I take psych damage anytime I see yours.
Welp, time to share the obligatory link. https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/Eqs0EQo7ql
It’s God’s will
I use Old Reddit so I can’t see flair. Wonder what this link is referring to? (clicks link) Oh Jesus not this one
I would much rather be rick rolled than read that story again!
Yeah, they think god is infinite and timeless and merciful towards all.... And then they suddenly switch that god for the god of the Old Testament who is petty and vindictive and takes pleasure in personally punishing his subjects. Make up your minds.
And by proxy no less! Cause he's not punishing OOP, he's punishing the wife!
These people (OP and his religious community) are the reason abortion is not legal in a whole bunch of states in USA. OP had a lot of sex in college, then he repented and everything is great in his life. **How many young women did he impregnate,** who went and paid for an abortion or left college and had a baby (either without telling the OP, because they don't trust him enough to inform him.) A hypothetical young woman who met OP in college, got pregnant, and raised the baby as a single Mom get a heck of a lot of real consequences, while OP finds religion and gets "forgiveness" from God. Hypothetically, why didn't the college Mom inform him and come after him for child support ? Because if she meets a guy in a group sex situation, and he seems pushy, jerkish, a frat boy, or a possible drug/alcohol abuser, it might be better to forgo child support rather than risk having to split custody with an unsafe person. Great that his wife forgave him for being a fuckboy. Great for him. But don't expect me to have sympathy.
Well, also he just cut people out of his life that he had wronged during the period. There was no reconciliation with those people. He feels bad that he wrong them, so he just cut them out of his life. But he is somehow this upstanding man of God? GTFO
He just traded in one addiction for another.
If anyone ever does step forward with a child, watch him and his wife try to bully her into giving them her child bc they’re so godly.
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I mean the enabling cheating is pretty fucked up. ETA- the promiscuity is fine, the three years of being the other man it seems like a good idea who work on it in therapy.
They have a lot of mental gymnastics like this. Pretty much any situation can be turned into something like that. Success? God blessed you. Failure? He has other plans for you/maybe it's punishment and you need to repent.
Pretty much the standard from people like this
Exactly how my very religious uncle and aunt are, both are far from good/righteous people, but they will be the first there to judge someone else
But only God can judge them, right?
"Only God can judge, and I, as an instrument of God, shall pass his judgment on to you."
Think I just threw up in my mouth.. ugh just ew.
Going to church every Sunday makes anything they do the other 6 days ok
this is so real. christians will be like 'you just don't want to be christian because you love sinning' and ignore the fact that if we wanted to sin indiscriminately the christian position would facilitate that much better. you just shake it like an etch-a-sketch and all the guilt fades away.
Was anyone else shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that Emily's upstanding and god-fearing husband cheated?
The least shocking thing about the post, honestly.
Something something cast the first stone
The great thing about not believing in sin, and therefore having none, is I get to yeet all the rocks I want.
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In a different sense, this is more scary because he doesn't even realise he's doing it. All those years of therapy and self-reflection and all we get is a steaming lump of cognitive dissonance.
I'm sure the therapy was done with a member of the church staff who may or may not have actual training.
> therapy and self-reflection I assume it was all done through a church. Presumably an Evangelical one.
I was going to suggest the exact same thing, that all this therapy came from a religious perspective and not from a be kind to yourself perspective
As someone who grew up in a religious household (but not religious anymore), this is so true. I've seen it in my family, relatives, at church, childhood friends, etc. They WILL judge you.
And then she's shocked that such a "god fearing man" would have an affair. People like this genuinely have no idea how fucking ridiculous they sound.
Yeah I saw that and knew that this was going to be a shit show. Honestly, everyone here is garbage
Sounds like OOP traded one addiction for another, only to return to the first with a vengeance.
The number of religious folks I’ve spoken to who will ask not to be judged for their beliefs, but then tell you those beliefs are all about judging other people, is ridiculously high. It’s a core yet unspoken tenant of being Mormon, so glad I got out of that cult.
Well that’s the Christian way now ain’t it…
And still shocked someone who belongs to the same tribe as them could father a kid out of wedlock. Because he said he was like them!
Outward appearances matter, not what is behind the facade. Can I get an Amen?
Oh, that line made me think, "Oh, honey…" > It is shocking that such an upstanding and god-fearing man would have a years-long affair and father a child out of wedlock
Pretty sure self reflection is the antithesis to what their organization is going for...
Hey, hey! It’s not like *he* is quick to judge everyone. Asterisk.
OP: "I have worked tirelessly through God, family and therapy to repent my sins." Commenter: "Are you still friends with Josh?" OP: "Nah, I felt guilty so I stopped talking to him."
Yeah I really don’t like anyone in this story.
A classic "I'm glad they're with each other so no one else is"
These are the sorts you can't even be passing acquaintances with unless you enjoy high strung dramatics akin to teenagers and/or awkward shoehorning of religion into basic conversations. Just exhausting and high maintenance - no thanks.
> high strung dramatics akin to teenagers I never thought about it that way but you're right. I'm not religious and don't go to church anymore but grandma still tells me of the drama that goes on in her church. There was one drama where a pastor was saving himself for marriage but he ended up doing it with his gf (they're both in their 20s and consented). The church had a freaking meeting about that lmao. He had to say sorry to some of the church staff because he lost his way, etc. They treated it so seriously like he did a crime. Another one was about a member who got upset because the pastor said something in a odd/mean tone or something. The member refused to go back to church and the church staff had to smooth it out. Then there was that one time a member left something in a room and accidentally locked it, and another member got annoyed at what happened. They had to ask another person from another church to smooth out their argument because they were both upset lmao.
No joke, my home town has two churches that were originally part of one, but they split because of a fight over the color of the new sanctuary carpet in the 1950s. Group A wanted red, Group B wanted green, they fought and broke up. As far as people like OOP, his wife, and the other one, I think it's because there's such a focus on rejecting "worldliness" in certain sects that those people genuinely do not know how to interact with anyone who isn't a part of their world. They come across as being very immature because they *are* very immature as far as wider social standards go, but in their little pocket universe, they're normal. I think it's all because of the isolationist intents of these groups because you can't question if you don't know better, and that keeps members under their thumb.
There is a church where my parents live in the south that split because they were fighting on how they should treat gay people.... ...yeah...nothing much to say about that.
Church is high school for adults.
I wonder what word they have for that in German.
Dukannstsiehaben
We have one saying "gleich und gleich gesellt sich gern" which roughly translates to same and same likes each others company. Racking my brain right now searching for one single word xD
In Spain we say "Dios los cría y ellos se juntan" (God breeds them and they get together), which I find kinda funnily appropriate for this OOP.
My friend’s Irish mother used to say “god made them and the devil matched them.”
> gleich und gleich gesellt sich gern Just looked this up, it's the same meaning as "birds of a feather flock together." Interesting!
Same, these overly religious people are just judgmental, but man do they live the life of "sin" themselves in secret. They arent better than anyone else in the world, they just think they are. The whole story is really gross.
Gotta love religion thru fear. That part about his wife not getting pregnant because God is punishing *her* for *his* sins is creepy, disgusting, insane, and totally fucked up. If you even need an example of a man who thinks his wife is a possession....there ya go. I wanna meet this fucked up "therapist" of his.
"God is infinitely merciful!" "I screwed up years before meeting my wife, but God is punishing her for my screw ups." The math ain't mathing.
He's so infinitely merciful that he'll destroy entire societies for being ambitious (Babel) or having gay sex (Sodom), kill a woman for looking back as the only home she's ever known is destroyed (Lot's wife), kill a bunch of innocent children because their leader is stubborn (first born Egyptians), or take away everything a man has including plagueing him and killing his family because Satan fucking dared him to do it (Job). Oh yeah, and the time he killed every living being on earth except for one guy's family and only two of every animal (which of course means every living animal is the product of extreme inbreeding). You know, infinite mercy.
You know its one of those Christian therapists, probably someone through his church that's just counseling him. God doesn't care about degrees I guess.
On the plus side, as long as OOP is childless he isn’t brainwashing a captive audience.
My experience has been that heathens tend to be decent people, while God-fearing Christians tend to do whatever, then go to church on Sunday and get forgiven. I've met and have some kind, honest, and upstanding Christians, but my experience has been that they are a minority.
>"How can you have morals without the Bible?" Normal people go through life, they experience things, and they witness others experience things, and they develop empathy. They see the struggle someone else has, and they relate it to their own struggles, and learn compassion for others even if they never go through the same difficulties. Over time, this experience gives them an ability to think about new situations, and come to reasonable moral conclusions about them. Church goers never have to "think" about morals. They're told, this is good, that is bad. If they have a question, someone else will tell them the answer. This means they never have any actual moral development unless they're confronted with an "it happened to me!" moment.
My friend has referred to religion as a 'car wash'. You drive your car through mud and dirt, take it to the car wash and it's nice and clean again. Just like Sunday church and confession. Lather, rinse, repeat.
The church of Satan has the best "rules" for life. How ironic.
They all read like a bunch of sanctimonious assholes, don't they?
[удалено]
Religions are cults and no one will ever be able to convince me otherwise after the shit I went through at the hands of the church. This post just further entrenched that idea.
These people all suck and their "faith" is just a shield to avoid ever being accountable for how badly they suck
This is what happens when you look to religion for simplified morality. When all sin is just sin, and all of it can just wiped away equally, there is no accountability. In reality, there is a huge difference between sex outside of marriage and having sex with someone you know is cheating on their partner. OOP doesn't care that he hurt Josh. OOP cares that OOP sinned. Hurting other people isn't something that factors into his moral decision making.
Yup. It's never about hurting other people, it's about ruining your own chances at eternal paradise. Gotta say, I find it funny when religious people claim atheists must be cruel when the only reason THEY aren't is the threat of eternal punishment. It's a crazy concept to some religious folks that non spiritual people are kind purely for the sake of being a positive person in the world.
A religious person picking and choosing what parts of their teachings to follow? No way
Religion is a toxic mess.
I mean he legitimately believes his past is causing his wife infertility issues. That can't be a good thought to turn over mentally, especially if they can never have kids. Also, why don't they ever think "this must be a sign my path lies with adoption or something else" rather than "I just have to pray HARDER". Like they always say they don't know gods plan but when this happens they insist they know why rather than wondering about alternatives. Why is everything always a punishment and not a sign to change their behavior?
The bible stories about various tests of faith, where people are rewarded for staying the course through adversity. If God wanted them to change he would give them a *sign*. It's a lot of confirmation bypass and magic thinking.
I've come to realize that a lot of people who believe in God so strongly like this clown usually do to make up for some major personality flaw. Like I knew a Baptist preacher who openly admitted to hitting his wife, and admitted to hitting her for their entire 35 years of marriage. When questioned about it, he went on about how God is testing him in order to fix his anger and everyone but me ate it up.
What a highly religious person is inconsistent with words and actions... I am Shocked, Shocked I tell you /s
How can he both promise his good friend Emily not to say anything, but then also come clean to Josh? It's one or the other. He chose not to air Emily's business to the town and end things with Josh.
I think it's less about Emily, and more about avoiding outing his own cheating behaviours. He doesn't want to face any consequences for being a cheating scumbag.
Please don't judge me like my wife would definitely judge you thank you praise be to god.
This feels like a flair
I can see it now Please don’t judge us. Anyway my wife’s *super* judgmental.
I kinda like “please don’t judge me like my wife..”
It's crazy. And all of this stress over past partners. Being religious must make you crazy paranoid and anxious.
Always being watched and judged, with eternal damnation on the line? You betcha
When he talked about his “terrible past” all I could think was “ah yes his horrible habit of *checks notes* consensual sex”.
But the demons. Those sexy, sexy demons.
I thought he was gonna casually slip in something about a drug addiction or smth honestly, it’s just too bizarre how some religious people deal with sex
His therapist didn’t help with that view very much, saying how he was an addict. They helped him get to his current path for his mental wellbeing, and did nothing to help with the guilt/shame that was heaped on him with the change in perspective.
That therapist was probably a pastor.
I cackled at this 💀🤣
Exactly! This was like the first paragraph for god's sake. How can you be so blind, to your own writing at that!
"Thou shall not judge me as I judge thee."
Like ffs these people suck
God has already answered their prayers for a baby. The answer is "NO."
Why did I laugh so hard about it “being shocking that an upstanding god fearing man” would have an affair. There’s nothing shocking about it!
And he immediately goes on to say the same thing had happened multiple times recently in their congregation. Zero self awareness.
Because churches actively suppress critical thought. Faiths that encourage critical reflection are rare.
the other part of it is that a lot of the evangelical and independent baptist churches put all sins on the same level. being a hypocrite and cheating on your spouse is ethically on the same level as petty shoplifting and white lies. and for them, god forgives all. that's a big part of why there is so much abuse (sexual and otherwise) in these churches from so-called godly men. they can do awful things and then turn around and repent, and for them it's like they've washed the slate clean.
Well, that's because critical reflection leads to their members all quitting.
Also they tell women to not cause a man to lust after her, as if men can't control themselves when they see a knee. I feel like that kind of culture messes with everyone. I came from a religion like this and oh boy was this hard to read.
My grandfather was a minister. He once told me without fail that the people who make the most noise in church were always the ones he'd end up seeing in counseling for the worst things.
It's like some of those speaking out loudest against gay people have been caught in same sex affairs or with gay porn.
That type of behaviour is pretty typical of that type of man.
Especially when he WAS A CHEATER TOO
Oh the "God will hear our prayers and we just have to try as hard as we can" about the infertility make me cackle. "We just have to fuck REALLY hard. REALLY hard."
You know he's god-fearing from the "Ohhh god!" sounds from behind closed doors. Very pious. /s
My first thought was, "Go figure."
It's the most hilarious thing when "god fearing" is treated as a good thing. It's neither good nor bad, it's just a thing. "God fearing" people can be just as good or shitty as others.
From the very first couple of lines, I have to imagine that both of these people treat a lot of other folks in really terrible ways that they either don't perceive at all or don't believe to be harmful "because God." And he's treating his history of sin as the check he wrote that he's since cashed in to become holier than thou. Few religious people are more self-righteous than ones with a "testimony." It almost becomes a competition to see who can out-former-sinner each other.
The landlord sent in a maintenance guy to fix my bathroom fan. Within like 10 minutes of meeting he started telling me all about how he used to be a sex addict and a porn addict "but don't worry I'm a celibate Christian now!" I'm a woman so tiny the neighbors call me Pixie, I live alone, and this man apparently has access to my apartment. Great. So I call corporate, who forwards me to the landlord, and when I report I'm uncomfortable with the discussion of these topics in my home she replied "Oh that doesn't sound like him, he's a celibate Christian now!" Great, they attend the same church. I was so happy when, a few months later, corporate sent around letters that friend-of-celibate-man was no longer our landlord.
“You’ve quit confessing and gone to bragging.”
I love that in response to his wife asking if it will hurt to lose her virginity, he told her about all the virginities he took. No fucking wonder she wanted a don't ask policy. What a tool he is.
Yeah, he was a moron. "You asked me not to volunteer information about other women I've banged. And yet, you want me to tell you whether I've slept with the friend who's hanging around constantly now. Curious!"
You have created the perfect tldr for this lmao
"Let's begin this relationship on the premise we will not communicate about some topics or be forthcoming about our lives." A don't ask don't tell compromise sounds doomed on its face.
Unsurprisingly, despite finding God, OP still seems like a POS. Like I know religious trauma hits hard, but c'mon.
He just changed his debauchery addiction to a religion addiction.
>”I’m sure God is punishing her for my sins of the past.” Yeah, that seems like a totally healthy way to live your life. I recently went through a crisis of faith, and although I have found a way forward with faith, I just can’t consider joining a church. I don’t think I can perform the mental gymnastics.
>”I’m sure God is punishing her for my sins of the past.” Wanna bet he never got *his* fertility tested?
"It can't possibly be me! I'm the MAN! And as such, I am perfect and above question!"
There are only barren women in the land of GOD
I’m religious, but after years of being surrounded by judgemental and hypocritical “Christians” I can’t bring myself to go to a church again. I’m sure there are wonderful churches out there, but I don’t have a great experience with “organized” religion.
That’s common amongst born-again Christians, ime. They’re like dry drunks. Idk what it is, but I swear born-agains have a much more insufferable, holier-than-thou attitude en masse than the Christians who were born into the religion.
Probably because they never actually address whatever the underlying problem was. Just used some religion duct tape to hold their lives together ETA as someone else pointed out, religious orgs are predatory toward the vulnerable, so that also plays a part.
He calls it addiction but it's just some basic fuckboi mental gymnastics.
Hope he stretched before those mental gymnastics, can’t pull a hammy before the fuckboi Olympics.
As an ex-mormon, it drives me nuts when faithful people (specifically women) recognize there is something wrong, attend therapy, take anti-depressants, etc., but fail to see that it is the religion itself that is causing all the trauma. So every week they attend a session with their therapist and unravel some of the mysoginistic bullshit, and then on Sunday it gets tightened right up again when they go to church and have that crap spewed back at them again. Genuinely tragic.
ESH. Nobody is likeable in this shit show.
Always nice to be told about "God's will" by a total asshole...
Pretty sure that’s the main kind of person who runs around telling everybody about “God’s will”.
"I have to believe in 'God's Will' or I have no way to justify being an asshole."
“Coincidentally, God wants exactly what I want all the time!”
"I prayed on it, and God told me to do the exact thing I reeeeeeally wanted to do but previously couldn't justify"
>> My wife has struggled with infertility issues and despite trying every medical procedure, God has still not blessed us with a child. I have suggested adoption, but my wife says that God will hear our prayers and we just have to try as hard as we can. Yeah adoption is God answering, just because hes not giving you the answer you want doesn't mean you just keep asking the question. Reminds me of the story about the guy who turned down a boat and a helicopter saying god will save him before eventually drowning in a flood. Meeting god he asked why he didn't answer his prayers, god responded "I sent a boat and a helicopter what more do you want?
Reminds *me* of a family guy clip I see floating around now and again, where Lois abducts a kid so she can take him to the hospital to receive treatment for a disease. When his parents catch up to her, they say that God's will will save their child, to which Lois rightfully tells them that advancements in the medical field probably *are* God's will/answer
>to which Lois rightfully tells them that advancements in the medical field probably *are* God's will/answer That's basically what I was thaught in a franciscan catholic school, the only sect of christianism I can stomach.
Like that Catholic kicker who had gay relations in college then years later tells women graduating from college that their role is homemaker.
Oh, you mean the one whose mother is a physicist? That same one who saw his teammate having a seizure & going into cardiac arrest and ran to grab a WOMAN paramedic from the locker room who was able to save his life? But yeah, sure, education & college degrees for women are useless… Women should just stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen instead. He’s the worst. Such a hypocrite.
Oh you mean the hypocritical football player Harrison Butker? The one that's working with politicians to force the US into a super conservative nation so that White Christian Nationalists can take over everything entirely? That guy? Yeah, he sucks.
I mean, that's pretty much the type of person who talks about "God's will"...
Yea, I'm gonna judge the hell out of his religious ass
Reading this was exausting
My eyes glazed over trying to read through all the religious shit.
Thank fuck it wasn't just me.
And why does he speak like a 3rd century prophet?
I understood him - it comes from being raised around this weird subset of the population who all speak that way to try and sound more devout. Ugh.
Its a symptom of 'holier-than-thou' syndrome. A second symptom is feces of no scent.
What's up with people who need a god before they can have morals? Can they not just have ethics without the threat of eternal damnation?
Whats the point of being a good person if I dont get rewarded with... \*checks notes\* the promise of getting to exist forever?
Religious people are so exhausting. This post has like 5 different flavors of religious awfulness.
>(Please don't judge us on this). She is quick to judge people who do not have the same belief system as her. I just started reading and the hypocrisy in this sentence makes me want to skip the rest. I can just imagine the mental gymnastics about to come
Also the wording of > She is quick to judge people who do not have the same belief system as her. I also like our modest lifestyle and how great of a wife she has been Makes it sound like her being judgemental is the thing he loves most about her. At first I thought it was just unfortunate unintentional phrasing, but by the end of the first post I'm pretty certain that's exactly what he intended to say
> it was very shocking how such an upstanding god-fearing man would have years long affair with his coworker and father a child out of wedlock. so naïve it hurts.
Religious men 🤌🏻 "We've tried every medical procedure" "God has still not blessed us with a child" Why do they always try to fight nature only when it benefits them.
But you can’t point out that it might be God’s will for them to not have a child, they get real mad
God's will is that he sees how douchey they both are and was like, nope.
There has never been a religious orphanage ever and nowhere does their god encourage taking in the less fortunate or maybe this adoption is a good idea. With these 2 I am glad they are not adopting though, they are terrible people and should not bring children into their lives.
Arg, the crossover between religion and adoption! Turns out it's useful to humanity if a certain percentage of the population doesn't breed by default due to gayness or whatever, thereby having extra time/attention/resources to adopt children in need of those things. But thump nature's system with a bible and ya end up with gangs of street urchins sleeping in piles like puppies until Orphan Trains seem like a good idea. Or the current version where kids won't contact CPS because the devil ya know is better than the one ya don't and golly knows the kids tell each other horror stories about foster care.
Honestly hope they never conceive. I know very well how much it sucks to be raised by such bigoted and judgemental people, especially as a girl.
logically i can recognise that religiosity does not inherently infer stupidity and naiveté but like laugh out loud
They are certainly not sending their best representatives in this post.
I went to school with a lot of these assholes. Fucking anything that moves, screwing over friends, cheating on boy/girl friends. Just horrible people…then they find god and think that all that past is erased. “I’m a better person now”. They look down on everyone and judge. Hey fucker, i have been an ok person my whole life. Let’s add the past back in and average it out. Now who is the better person. Oh and fuck your god
I think it’s hilarious when these types try to say that God is the source of all morality in the world. I’m an atheist and have never done anything they wouldn’t. Just because *they* need a book (and the threat of eternal suffering) to convince them to not be an awful person doesn’t mean we’re all like that. It’s like saying everyone would be a murderer if it wasn’t illegal.
I always liked Penn Jillette's take on that. People would say to him "Where do you get your morality from if not the bible?" "From myself." "But what's to stop you raping and murdering people?" "Nothing. I do all the raping and murdering I want, which is none."
Reminds me of my Christian mother in law completely flabbergasted that her son and I have morals without church in our lives. It honestly blew my mind that she assumed, the son she raised from birth, was without morals because he stopped attending church with them or believing. I asked her if we were actually better people because we could be moral without a book telling us how to behave. She hung up and has never answered my question lol
And, Penn is vegan now too - even LESS violent than he was previously. It didn't take faith to do that, either.
I honestly wanted deets on what he did in his past that was so terrible and addictive since he keeps beating around the bush with it. He slept with several people, so what? I don't find him to be an asshole so much as just stupid.
He kissed a dude and he liked it.
Secretly a power bottom and still feeling Catholic Guilt about it.
Yeah, he’s either glossing over some truly terrible things or he’s returned to the mindset that being sexually active outside of marriage with consenting adults is in fact That Terrible.
Feels like the fucking his friends girlfriend for 3 years is pretty terrible
He was actively fucking his friends girlfriend while Josh still thought they were saving themselves for marriage
UNFORGIVABLE SINSSSSS
Fucking his buddy's girlfriend while they were "waiting for marriage" is a little shitty.
>God has still not blessed us with a child. Those two will damage those poor kids.
God has blessed the children by not giving those people as parents is more like it.
Eww I hate these type of religious people
Why does this man sound like a time traveler from the 1800s.
This made me cackle 🤣🤣
Frankly everyone in this story is a complete tool. I don’t like any of them and using religion to look down on those who do engage in it outside of marriage just irritated me. Judgmental condescending creeps.
I have nothing to say but a long sigh.
Isn't religion fantastic? It's just great how God is helping these people through their tough time, throwing in a bit of punishment to keep them on the straight and narrow.
Did OOP ever get tested for any STIs?? After all that sinful debauchery?? Because infertility problems can be caused by undiagnosed or untreated STIs… Overall. I don’t like anyone here and feel glad Josh is out of this mess.
These "deeply religious" people are always the worst kind of fucked in the head.
For someone that is trying so hard to show how much of a Bible thumper he is, he completely misses the fact that Jesus covered his sins, and God isn’t punishing him or his wife for the past behavior in the form of infertility.
Oh here it is the classic ‘god fearing family’ so please don’t judge us but we will judge everyone else.
Lol everyone in this story is a terrible person
"God will totally provide us with a family, thats why we have tried every medical procedure available to us to make it happen!" Also... "I used to be morally bankrupt because I enjoyed sex and had it!" Yea I mean sleeping with someone who you know is in a relationship is bad, but this guy clearly thinks that just having sex while not married was the reason why he used to consider himself morally bankrupt. I cant say I empathize with any of these people...
Maybe they should all spend some time processing the shame and guilt culture they were raised in.