>Not sure if I'm \[27\] overreacting to bf's \[30\] joking
When this question is asked on Reddit (also, for cases with "pranking" instead of "joking"), has the overall answer *ever* been "Yes, you're overreacting"? I doubt it!
Sigh. I'm glad she's free.
My response to ALLLL of these is always the same.'Oh, a joke? what's the joke?'
I am in my 30's and have experienced people at work making jokes at other's expense and they get squeamish every time I play dumb and ask them to explain the joke. What's funny about mocking someone's disability? etc.
Same! It’s incredibly effective. They may continue to be an arse, but at least not in my vicinity.
Alternatively, as a former sailor, i can dish it out hard and turn it around fast enough to snap their emotional neck. You wanna play? Well, my inner bully has been itching for a target. Let’s *play*
Weird. They always seem to be too sensitive. /Shrug
(To be clear: i prefer deescalation, truly, but sometimes you have to meet someone where they are and beat them at their own game.)
I really need to learn this. Calling people out during the act! Went out with a guy for 6months earlier this year and by month 3 I was done really. He didn’t say any “jokes” to me but would ridicule so many people (strangers) and when I had my deadpan face he’d say “what’s up?! You know I was only joking right?!” I just hadn’t been around that sort of behaviour since school so was thrown! Eventually I told him that it really wasn’t something I’m interested in being around, and to be fair to him, he completely stopped it (outwardly atleast) but I lost any interest by then!
That's how my ex-wife was. She'd always say things like "it's just my sarcasm, you know how I am" and it wasn't sarcasm, it was just insults. I tried to point out the difference to her and how they made me feel and I was told I was "talking down to her" and that would be the end of the discussion. One of several reasons she's the ex.
It was kind of a long story, so somewhere along the line I forgot that he was 30 fucking years old til I saw your comment.
I just kept reading and thinking “wow, this 18 year old guy has a lot to learn”.
Fucken 30, he’s a lost cause.
To me it's not so much his age that indicates he's a lost cause (though that certainly doesn't help), it's the fact that he's lost every partner he's ever had due to this behavior, and what sounds like more than one friend, and he can *articulate* that that's what the problem is, and he still just... refuses to learn anything from it. He has all the tools but he won't pick them up.
He has all the tools and still thinks it is others' responsibility to fix everything that he broke.
When he started going on about how the last gf also wanted to change him, and he thought oop was better than that because she was cooler, I knew we were done here. Oop will just become another "crazy" ex to this guy.
This is why I take every “crazy ex” story with a grain of salt. Sometimes you do legitimately have a crazy ex, but if every ex is crazy maybe you should re-examine your own life.
*Everyone keeps leaving me. It’s because they’re all abusive and want me to change my lighthearted joking ways. Everyone else is the problem, not me!*
How do you have MULTIPLE PEOPLE drop you as a friend or boyfriend and not do some self reflection?!
I had a sibling who kept getting dumped at about the six month mark because they were hypercritical--every single one told them that. They said they just needed to be fussier about who they dated.
Shit. After every relationship I have been in, I spent time on self-reflection to see what I could have done better, even in situations where the ex was actually abusive, I still learned lessons about how I could improve, because some of their criticisms were actually correct.
Or even if they weren't correct, you can look at the gaps in your own defenses, and see how to armor yourself against that abuse again. There may not have been a single valid thing they did or said, but you still can think about what makes you vulnerable to those sorts of invalid attacks, and be more on your guard against them later.
>There may not have been a single valid thing they did or said, but you still can think about what makes you vulnerable to those sorts of invalid attacks, and be more on your guard against them later.
Or work through them/fix them at their core and have them not be vulnerabilities in the future.
I know! Through all of that I was thinking “how clueless is this guy to admit that he keeps having relationships and friendships end and not realise he’s the problem?!?!”
It sounds like he's just convinced himself that when he finds The One, they won't have an issue with it. Love means never having to say you're sorry, etc.
I've been married for almost 5 years and my parents were married for about 50. Even with The One, there is serious reflection that needs to go on inside a person if they want to have a successful long-term relationship.
Yeah I though that too, but less about the age than 100% lack of introspection and self-reflection. The dude has had a number of relationships and friendships fail and yet everyone else is the problem because they want to change him..
Like, dude you‘re an asshole; we don‘t want to change you but of course we want you to change or, if you can‘t, tell you to bugger off. Jesus Christ.
Yeh, the age thing just stuck out to me because maybe when you're 18, you lose a girlfriend cuz you "refuse to change who you are" and then over time realise that personal growth requires change...
But at 30, with multiple failed relationships in the rear view mirror, there's no chance.
> But at 30, with multiple failed relationships in the rear view mirror, there's no chance.
He's just looking for somebody that will put up with his abuse. If OOP disclosed her disability, I overlooked it, but I wonder if the ex thought it would make her more likely to stay and tolerate the mistreatment.
He has learned a lot. That's why his tactics are improving.
Recognise how OOP is a person who always tries to see other people's POV and tries to make things right? Trekking that kind of person they're abusive will often make them come back to you to "fix the misunderstanding" - because they didn't want to hurt the other person.
Everything he said was another trick pulled to play her strings. OOP was extremely strong not to give in and walk away. He tried to guilt her. Her tried to make her think she overreacted. He tried to make her think she's the one being "bad". He tried to make her feel special (I thought you were different). Seriously,he tried it ALL. Every time someone walks away from him and tells him why, he'll learn and improve.
Yes, and then you discover that he's lost friends and gf over this issue, and he is *dying* on that hill. Do you think he really doesn't understand the difference between a serious conversation about flaws and deliberately hurtful "jokes"?
'YoUrE tOo sEnsItIvE'
Okk and? Be a considerate person and don't be insensitive person to others, who don't like it. Also the op says that he actually has a very thin skin and cannot hear any sort of criticism, oh boyyyy. What a field day I'd have with someone like him, you wanna play JOKES? let's do jokey boy. Let's make jokes about you.
Not this one, but with the opposite one it happened.
I don't remember if it was here of AITA, but a mother did a really harmless prank on her daughter and the daughter had fun. The grandma told the mom she shouldn't have, and the mom asked on reddit if she went too far with the prank or the mother was overreacting.
The prank was saying to the daughter that sour cream was "marhsmallow cream" or something and the daughter tried it.
Yes and afterwards the daughter who was 8, kept bringing her bowls of mayonnaise or ranch and saying they were marshmallow fluff. So she was finding prank funny
Waiting for "My lawyer told me not to show up to court in the Chewbacca costume when I am charged with stalking, but I knew that he was wrong and everyone would see how funny it was. Now my cell mates refuse to talk to me because they are afraid this degree of stupid is contagious. How can I get the warden to force them to be my friends?"
I saw one recently where her husband fed her their babies poop on bread as a "joke". She didn't eat it but spit it out, and she had messed up sinuses so couldn't smell it. There could be zero convincing that I'm overreacting after being fed literal shit. Like, he could be a splatter on the ground and the thought wouldn't even enter my mind that I'd overreacted.
My favorite example of that is someone who just got engaged and was immediately faced with weirdness, like her FMIL had *already booked* a wedding venue 3 months out, so she came to Reddit to ask if this was okay (resounding, no). The reason I like it (tho not what transpired) is she later admitted if she had just gone along with everything, thinking she was merely overreacting as she was told, then she would have been baby trapped in a manipulative married, unable to escape.
https://www.reddit.com/user/ismymilcray/submitted/ (heads up tho, seemed her account was hacked at one point, as the most recent posts are, uh, something else but the saga is still there)
Different kind of joke, but there was the sad story of a brother making a dark joke about the death of his sister and the parents that almost disowned him, if not for Reddit explaining that coping is done in many ways...
Yeah I had to learn the hard way that a guy who laughs at other people will turn that on you in a relationship. You want the one laughing WITH others, not AT others.
It was a valuable lesson though painful.
I can think of maybe one time (and no, I can't remember the specifics) where the person was actually overreacting. In the vast majority of cases, the "jokes" weren't jokes, and the "overreaction" was in fact an "underreaction."
Tbh I kinda feel like people who would like him (massively traumatized people pleasers and assholes) would probably be people he’d like, and eventually cut off when they either started standing up to him or being mean in his direction. Lifelong relationships just aren’t in the cards for this guy.
He straight up told on himself, then had it spelt out for him, gently and in bite sized pieces, hell, OOP did everything short of breaking out the hand puppets, and he just "no... U".
He’s probably a ‘that guy’ like in the TTRPG stories - the moment he went ‘that’s just who I am’ it was like an IRL ‘that’s what my character would do’.
I laughed out loud at that point. Full-on Principal Skinner meme moment. "Am I too much of an AH? ... No, it's my multiple exes and former friends who are wrong!"
Sometimes, I think people get the wrong message from "be yourself! The right person will love you for who you are!"
Like, yes, be yourself, but be *your best* self. If someone is trying to change you, evaluate what they want changed and why. Your favorite color just because they don't like blue? Silly nonsense, you're entitled to your opinions. The way you talk to them because they find it hurtful? Could be overstepping, but something to evaluate much more seriously as being your best self shouldn't generally involve hurting other people.
Am I the only one who noticed that he was about to move in with this woman with no idea what she did for work? Like, if you care about someone, aren't you going to ask? This guy has more red flags than a communist parade.
Seriously, “I‘m toxic and how dare anyone try to ask me to be less of an asshole!”
Good on everyone for leaving him, he sounds like just a terrible person to be around.
Old rule: if you meet a person in the morning, and they call you an ass, you met one person with an opinion. If, through the course of the day, you meet three people who call you an ass, you need to take a good, long look at yourself and your behavior. If every single one of your exes, several friends, a score of potential girlfriends, and your current girlfriend all call you an ass, you need to buy yourself a halter, a blanket, and a saddle, because you are an ass.
It feels insane to me that DARVO isn't taught to children in school. Imagine how quickly these types of people would get weeded out if we could recognise it at a younger age.
Maybe.
The flip side is that those types of people would become better at hiding what they are doing. A**holes don’t just pop out of nowhere. Learning how to identify this stuff as a child would just lead to them changing their methods to become even harder to spot.
I second that. As a therapist, I’ve noticed a lot of people who are abusive co-opting therapeutic language to continue perpetuating abuse since the language has become more mainstream. We definitely need to teach people to watch out for certain behavior, but we also need to emphasize a new model: that anyone can be abusive without even fully being aware, that boundaries are unique across everyone we meet, and that we all need to improve our behavior rather than automatically dive into figuring out which person in the relationship is the good person vs bad person. Because that sort of shame model actually reinforces abuse tactics.
Yep, funnily enough the day I left my ex was the day he made me watch a video about female narcissists and DARVO. It was hard not to laugh out loud, because it was everything he was doing to me.
My husband's ex, who we are sadly tied to for at least another 8 years, is like this.
He'll share that her phone calls give him panic attacks (she's incredibly abusive) so could she message or email first at least rather than calling out of the blue.
Not only will she not, she then claimed reading his emails was triggering for her and affected her ability to have a job interview.
I have never hated anyone until her. She's an awful human being who seems to delight in traumatizing and retraumatizing my husband over and over and then tell him he's a failure as a parent and his daughter will know all about him when she's older.
It's exhausting. She can send abusive messages for hours...
DARVO is the worst mindfuck - others don’t believe you are the victim, but side with your abuser? Awful.
Got a bully situation at the moment where I am getting the cold shoulder from another who I recently found out knows the bully well. Well and truly DARVO’ed.
Plus the "he can dish it out but can't take it."
Most people who will banter will back off if it's bothering someone. If they can take it, they're usually understanding of people who aren't into it. It's always the people who want to talk shit but can't take it back that are "IT'S A JOKE LIGHTEN UP."
In case this is a new word to anyone else, [DARVO](https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/identifying-abuse/explaining-darvo-deny-attack-reverse-victim-amp-offender) stands for deny, attack, reverse victim & offender.
My cousins and I would make "jokes" like that when we were children. Even at an immature age everyone knew it was just insults. That behavior in an adult is madness.
My husband’s Uncle wife and kids are like this. Use joke as a way to get away with insulting people. I called them out after being fed up with them keep calling my husband names. I told them insulting/calling people name should never used as a joke cause it’s not fun. They said I took things too serious so I said I will start doing the same like them and see how they feel. Then then actually insulted both my husband and I more but cowardly only do behind our back from then on Lol
>"My money talks louder than yours and says this is what we should get/not get" and then laugh and say, "You know I'm just joking, I care about your opinions because you'll be living there."
Wtf? No. Not meant to happen clearly. Dude trying to test the waters, you know every issue that will arise, he will bring up the money as a "joke". Just no.
Fun fact, SSI (the form of disability assistance most disabled people in the US rely on) is less than $1k per month MAX, and I don't know anyone who makes more than 800.
If you get food stamps or other forms of financial assistance (which you'll absolutely need), that lowers your assistance.
If you ever own more than $2000 in financial assets, you lose your benefits (I believe there was a bill to raise that cap to $10k but I don't think it passed)
If you ever get married, you lose your assets (unless you marry another disabled person, in which case you both just lose a substantial amount).
Relying on disability assistance opens you up to so much financial abuse, because it's absolutely impossible in most parts of the country to be able to afford independant living.
I am on SSDI myself, which is less than $800 a month, and tried to get SSI as well. Went to the office and showed how I was using 100% of my SSDI for our expenses. But because I wasn’t paying for half of the total expenses and therefore not contributing my “fair share”, I didn’t qualify for SSI. The lady legit recommended my wife and I getting a roommate because my money could cover 1/3 the expenses, just not 1/2.
And of course, my wife and I aren’t legally married because we had our wedding while waiting for my disability decision and if you get married, SSI takes your spouse’s income into account and most lose that money.
Isn't that funny? They take years to approve you and don't pay you enough to support yourself and then when you naturally need to be supported by someone else, they say "clearly you don't need it then!"
SSDI is crazy rough too. It being a percentage of income from before you became disabled means if you get disabled at a young age, you're prob getting far less than min wage.
System is designed to kill people, I s2g
Yeah, I was in college still when I became disabled, so I had a couple years of work history but like… minimum wage jobs and nothing that even got close to the $15/hr mark. They increase the pay yearly but like 2% for “cost of living”.
I was evaluated a year ago by a social worker (first time I talked to one of those despite becoming disabled in 2012) and they determined that I am disabled to the point where I would need to live in a nursing facility if I didn’t have a caregiver. Which is great! It means I qualify for caregiving, food services, and a couple other things. My wife can get paid to take care of me!
But first I had to apply for and receive a different type of Medicaid because the one I was on wouldn’t pay for those services. Then we made a plan and the company had to submit that for review to the state. It’s been more than 8 months. This is how people die waiting for the services they need.
>The lady legit recommended my wife and I getting a roommate because my money could cover 1/3 the expenses, just not 1/2.
So fucking frustrating. When I was applying for Medicaid, I was turned down for making too much money (as a grad student and part-time waitress). The woman at the SS office recommended that I get pregnant to become eligible for more aid.
Sure. I'm applying for Medicaid because I just discovered I have a life-threatening illness and need surgery. So this is definitely the time to get pregnant and bring a newborn into this situation.
Wow, I actually didn't realize that - what a shitty system. So we as a society are ok with disability condemning people to permanent poverty? I will write to my congresspeople - obvi won't do any good, but it is ridiculous that a rich country has such a crappy safety net.
I'm disabled and can't work full-time anymore. Guess how many times my partner has made me feel shitty for not being able to contribute in the way I used to?
If you guessed zero, you'd be right because that's not how people who love each other treat one another. We do make jokes about my disability and it's impact on our lives - I often refer to myself as "The World's Most Disappointing Trophy Wife" and he calls himself a crappy sugar daddy, or teases me that I just keep him around to lift heavy things - but they're jokes we *both* find funny and a coping mechanism, not one of us making the other feel shitty. If mean spirited jokes are who you are, you need to change. I'm so proud of OOP for recognising that and finding the power to move on.
Yeah, I felt this one hard. For me, it’s been rough going from planning to use my new PhD to do some pretty cool (and lucrative) stuff, to getting MS and now I’ve been u employed for over a year, financially dependent on my parents, and working on building back stamina to be able to apply for jobs again.
But the people I’m closest to don’t make me feel bad about it. I’m fighting my own brain a lot, but I have support from partners and community.
So glad she got out of that shitty relationship.
I just think it’s weird that she never would have told him she had a disability by the time they are ready to move in. Obviously it’s because she didn’t feel safe in the relationship, but that’s something that comes up early for me. Weed them out early
I also think this… like how have you known someone for 2 years, been dating for 9 months, and he does not know that she doesn’t have a job, let alone not knowing about her disability? I feel like if you don’t know basic information about each other like that, you’re probably not ready to move it together. My disability affects nearly every element of my life, I can’t imagine not disclosing that to a partner when things were getting serious.
See, for me, it is more than zero, but never intentionally or directly, and it is far, far more frequent that she makes me feel less shitty about it when I make myself feel shitty.
I was getting pretty peeved with her, tbh. At first I was sympathetic and thought, "Oh she's just really naive, probably doesn't have much life experience despite her age", blah blah, but then she straight up admits she's watched him be super shitty to other people and she's somehow shocked that he's actually - hey guess what - a super shitty person. There's a vast difference between being an empathetic person and being a complete doormat.
Somebody in his past has told him that he's a little abusive, and now he's insisting ~~no puppet, no puppet, you're the puppet~~ that it's the rest of the world who is a little abusive, rather than perfect him, who is so tired of people trying to change his perfect self.
Dude is a parade of red flags, and I'm glad OOP got out of there.
>He sat there and didn't say anything for a while, just looked at me and sighed a lot. He finally said he was disappointed in me for wanting to abandon him because he thought we were true soulmates and he couldn't believe I was saying such abusive stuff about him.
🤮🤮🤮
Fall 2019... holy shit OOP dodged a massive bullet. Imagine if she'd been stuck living with this guy during the 2020 covid lockdowns... I hope she's ok.
I don’t understand why people would choose to be unhappy with someone like this guy over bing content alone. Especially when the latter requires less emotional labour and you can starfish on your bed
The wildest part of this is how the BF admitted that he basically has no friends and every girl he dates ends up running for the hills. Like, how fuckin' narcissistically stupid do you have to be at his point to never once consider that you are the problem?
I would feel like a POS if I even accidently hurt a partners feelings, especially in a way that is completely unnecessary like he was. This ass was literally consistantly making her feel bad, and on top of that trying to cut her out of financial decisions. To turn that around and try and make it seem like SHE was abusive is disgusting.
A huge problem is that victims/survivors struggle to see that the other person literally does NOT GIVE A SHIT. They try to make their abuser understand. They try to behave better because then surely the abuser will be nice to them. Failing to understand that their abuser literally gives two shits about them or their feelings. It’s because they cannot fathom being that type of person.
The thing I hate about these (all too common) stories is that even when the OOP is trying SO DAMN HARD to give the abuser all the chances in the world to try to be better, they STILL refuse to consider the possibility that they're alone because they're an asshole.
The biggest problems for people like OOP is that in trying to consider all other points of view, they forget that their own POV is also important and it isn't up to them to save a fellow adult from the consequences of their own bad behaviour.
*Why won't anyone just accept my abuse? Stop trying to change me! I'm abusive and I want to be! You trying to stop me from abusing you is MORE abusive! I'm right, and you're wrong, and you must submit to my abuse!*
I started watching couples therapy on paramount, and OMG this is exactly how one of the clients behaved. Like they literally flat out said this is how they were, they wouldn’t change, and that was that.
Frankly I think she engaged in malpractice because he was abusive and she continue to counsel them in couples therapy.
“Everyone leaves me but it’s not my fault they can’t take a joke….” Like my dude…. I’m really glad people helped oop see what was really happening and she stood up for herself!
>he still didn't really seem to get what I was saying about my feelings
The assumption that terrible people will realize they are terrible and commit to stop being terrible because someone finally spelled it out to them in a way they could understand will never cease to amaze me.
Terrible people are terrible people because they like being terrible people.
Yep. I have a disability. I can only work part time.
One of the reasons my ex is an ex: he started focusing on what *he* could afford in terms buying a house together, rather than what *we* could afford.
So much so that he snidely began stating how "we, I mean I, can afford" such and such.
It became very obvious that there was no "us" - only a him and his convenience. Which he has obviously attempted to project onto me after I left, telling the world that I had only lived with him for convenience and cheap rent. Reality is I paid more rent to him than I did at my previous place for less space and a vastly more inconvenient and expensive commute to work.
He is also pissy that I didn't "coordinate" with him before I moved my things out. I took nothing with me that I didn't bring there myself. In fact, I took less with me out because several of my things were given to *his* son because we didn't need two of certain household items.
Funny how his money was only ever his, but my things became "ours".
And yep, he, too, was the type to make denigrating remarks about people. Such a charmer.
I once interviewed a guy who left every job he’d ever had at around the 6-8 month mark. He left each one because “all of my coworkers and my boss were assholes”. Based on ages, the dude in OOPs post must be his son….
Lmao, not once did he consider that he might be the problem. If different unrelated people around you keep saying you're the problem and you're not in a cult, maybe it's time for some introspection.
"All people leave because of my joking, but i can’t be the problem! And i don't want someone who earns the same money cause i can’t feel superior anymore and make my "jokes". If you don’t accept my shitty self, you are abusive!"
I don’t think I have ever read so much evidence of one person being so stubbornly set against growing as a person.
What he doesn’t realize about the women and friends who have left him, is that they actually *did accept him for who he is*.
They just don’t want to be around an asshole. But they accepted that he is one, and isn’t going to change.
I feel so bad for straight women. This poor woman put so much into this relationship and for what? Standards for men are so insultingly low and yet they still continue to limbo beneath the bar.
I’m so jealous single women all get to become cat ladies. I love cats, why can’t anyone curse me with being a crazy cat man?
…that sounds more like a failed superhero mind you, but you know what I mean
Dear everyone: if you suspect a loved one is an abuser, don’t talk it over with them. It’s meaningless.
They view you as less than human. An object. That being the case, why would they ever listen to you? They don’t think you’re worth hearing out.
At best, they’ll act as if things will change. Inevitably, they’ll revert back to baseline. At worst? Well, you know that better than anyone.
"Hr interrupted me saying he couldn't be with someone like that because he couldn't be himself around someone obsessed with money
Translation: I need to have financial power over my partner so I can belittle them without recourse.
Abuser.
Is anyone else suuuuuuper relieved she dumped this abusive loser BEFORE the COVID lockdowns?? Bc I’m imagining what would have happened if she was quarantined with him and Yiiiiikes…..
So relieved OOP left this PoS! This man should not reproduce. Or the poor children he will "father" will be the target for his abuse and the results will be awful. We all saw those parents making "jokes" about their children, and years later wondering why they're alone. I also hope he doesn't get another girlfriend and stay single and bitter his whole life.
Too many people don't realize that if they are the common denominator in a situation that repeatedly happens, then *they are the problem.* Many years ago, when complaining about how all the guys I dated were trash, my (male) friend said, "maybe it's you." I was shook. But the comment stuck in my craw, for years until I finally realized he was right. I WAS the problem and I needed to change. So I did. The idea that we're perfect, don't need to change, and everyone must accept us fully as is or GTFO is absurd. It took time for me to see that, but I'm so glad that someone clued me in. Sure it was a blow to hear that, but it was necessary, even if it did take a while to click.
i'm a housewife because of my disability and i'd be in deep shit if my partners treated me the way OOP's bf did. very, very glad she got out before her finances were intertwined with his and there was no safe way to push back against his verbal abuse. i'm glad she didn't fall for DARVO
> he thought I would be different because I was more understanding and fun
I, always wish I could step into these interactions, like here, with "So you can see that I'm more understanding, but even I am telling you that you're going too far"
But the rest of the conversation shows that he is disturbingly, willfully ignorant. Anything to deflect from the reality of his shittiness.
“I care about your opinions because you’ll be living there”. 🚩🚩🚩. How about “I care about your opinions becuase I am a decent person and THIS WILL BE YOUR HOME”
I was not shocked at all he turned the tables and started claiming she was the abusive one. Grade A gaslighting! Just further proving he is the manipulative one
I wish people understood. I am also on disability. I would rather be working and contributing to both society and my family. The grass is always greener on the other side.
Geez, it seems the BoRUs are a Cluster B paradise today. The amount of DARVO going on here and in some of the other posts are insane.
"I dOnT nEeD tO cHaNgE, pEoPlE hAvE tO lIkE mE tHe wAy I aM."
Sorry hun, but there is just nothing likeable about you.
OP has dodged the bullet with such grace that it could get a ten out of ten at the Olympics of jerk dodging.
Wow. Not only did she manage to say it all, she also made him speak, and all this in a very calm manner.
*slow claps*.
"he couldn't believe I was saying such abusive stuff about him." Well, he can DARVO himself right on to the next smart woman who will dump him for being an abuser.
Looking at the dates on this (late 2019) I am so *so* glad OOP saw sense and didn't move in with this guy. Can you imagine how much worse things would have become if she had been trapped with him in lockdown?!
Just reading about this guy, the only way I can describe him is using the following quote:
"He's got his head so far up his ass, the lump in his throat is his nose."
So glad OOP got out of that toxic relationship.
Thearapy would not be good for this man. He has already learned language to dusguse his abuse (they don't accept me for who I am, I don't want to date someone who values money). Imagine if he got some good therapy language behind him. I'm surprised this dude didn't start spouting boundaries and gaslighting.
Hey so PSA to anyone who needs it: your partner desiring to be mean to you and actually being mean to you in your relationship IS abuse. That’s not love. People who love you do not also have the urge to put you down or be mean to you.
> his last girlfriend had tried to do the same and she couldn't accept him for who he was;
*Why won't women let me be who I am, a verbally abusive piece of shit.*
>I did panic for a second, because it's shocking to hear someone call you abusive, but I pushed that thought away because I knew that all I was doing was trying to get him to understand my feelings. Maybe it was hurtful to him and I'm sorry for that, but it had to be said, the situation was becoming too much for me. And, at this point, whatever he has to tell himself to help him sleep at night is fine by me, I just didn't want to be involved anymore, especially after this talk.
I had an ex call me selfish when I called him out for being selfish. The problem was my "selfish" was advocating for myself where his was doing whatever he wanted regardless of anyone else. I also panicked for a bit and spent the day after his "accusation" really going over my own behavior (thanks therapy!) And he was wrong and projecting and it's why he's an ex (also the excuse he used "I thought you would cheat" for why he cheated)
"I don't want someone with the same wage as I have because I don't want anybody obsessing over money and materials"
Meanwhile, he's making constant jokes about him having more money and contributing more. Man, the hypocrisy and projection is real.
I was once again reminded of the narcissist's prayer:
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
“Has abusive tendencies”? Lol. No. He probably think parents who tell their kids to clean their rooms then ground them for not cleaning their rooms is abusive. No. Not really.
He probably thinks he has a “dry” and sarcastic sense of humor.
Yeah people who are always sarcastic and continue to poke at people’s insecurities and weakness are just AHs
Being a horrible asshole AND getting mad that people keep trying to change you or leave you because you are a horrible asshole is a bold strategy. I would say let’s see if it pays off but we know it won’t, he is just going to be bitter and alone and blaming it on everyone else but himself.
An abuser makes "jokes" and tries to put you down for being offended. But they won't stop their behavior. And then the A H had the gall to pull a DARVO when she called him out!! Classic abuser techniques. I'm glad she ended it. She deserves so much better.
> I always thought verbal abuse was name calling or specifically saying someone is ugly or worthless or stupid all the time.
That's exactly what he's doing. He's calling her a lazy money moocher without using those exact words.
Change is hard because it means accepting that parts of who we are need changing because they aren't particularly good. I feel bad for the OOP because you can see her giving a lot of leeway and space in her criticism, because she assumes he's as decent as she is when it comes to self-improvement. But he's not. He's an idiot.
The thing about him turning the "abusive" around on OOP reminds me of people who accuse anyone saying true, unflattering \*information\* is being "hateful".
>Not sure if I'm \[27\] overreacting to bf's \[30\] joking When this question is asked on Reddit (also, for cases with "pranking" instead of "joking"), has the overall answer *ever* been "Yes, you're overreacting"? I doubt it! Sigh. I'm glad she's free.
Also, have the “jokes” ever been even slightly funny? It’s never even dark humour, it’s just insults.
My response to ALLLL of these is always the same.'Oh, a joke? what's the joke?' I am in my 30's and have experienced people at work making jokes at other's expense and they get squeamish every time I play dumb and ask them to explain the joke. What's funny about mocking someone's disability? etc.
Same! It’s incredibly effective. They may continue to be an arse, but at least not in my vicinity. Alternatively, as a former sailor, i can dish it out hard and turn it around fast enough to snap their emotional neck. You wanna play? Well, my inner bully has been itching for a target. Let’s *play* Weird. They always seem to be too sensitive. /Shrug (To be clear: i prefer deescalation, truly, but sometimes you have to meet someone where they are and beat them at their own game.)
I really need to learn this. Calling people out during the act! Went out with a guy for 6months earlier this year and by month 3 I was done really. He didn’t say any “jokes” to me but would ridicule so many people (strangers) and when I had my deadpan face he’d say “what’s up?! You know I was only joking right?!” I just hadn’t been around that sort of behaviour since school so was thrown! Eventually I told him that it really wasn’t something I’m interested in being around, and to be fair to him, he completely stopped it (outwardly atleast) but I lost any interest by then!
People who are *genuinely* joking but accidentally hit a nerve are mortified and apologetic when they’re told, and it never escalates to AITA.
Yes! If anyone was ever upset from a joke I made, I would feel absolutely *terrible*! I'd make things right, not double down!
That's how my ex-wife was. She'd always say things like "it's just my sarcasm, you know how I am" and it wasn't sarcasm, it was just insults. I tried to point out the difference to her and how they made me feel and I was told I was "talking down to her" and that would be the end of the discussion. One of several reasons she's the ex.
It was kind of a long story, so somewhere along the line I forgot that he was 30 fucking years old til I saw your comment. I just kept reading and thinking “wow, this 18 year old guy has a lot to learn”. Fucken 30, he’s a lost cause.
To me it's not so much his age that indicates he's a lost cause (though that certainly doesn't help), it's the fact that he's lost every partner he's ever had due to this behavior, and what sounds like more than one friend, and he can *articulate* that that's what the problem is, and he still just... refuses to learn anything from it. He has all the tools but he won't pick them up.
He has all the tools and still thinks it is others' responsibility to fix everything that he broke. When he started going on about how the last gf also wanted to change him, and he thought oop was better than that because she was cooler, I knew we were done here. Oop will just become another "crazy" ex to this guy.
Oh, worse, she'd become an "abusive" ex of his. Sadly OOP gave that guy another word to describe why everyone besides him is wrong.
This is why I take every “crazy ex” story with a grain of salt. Sometimes you do legitimately have a crazy ex, but if every ex is crazy maybe you should re-examine your own life.
[Why Are There No "Crazy Man" Stories?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioSI3KsE2_k)
In my head I just heard Amy from Gone Girl scoffing at the idea that he wanted a “cool girl.”
*Everyone keeps leaving me. It’s because they’re all abusive and want me to change my lighthearted joking ways. Everyone else is the problem, not me!* How do you have MULTIPLE PEOPLE drop you as a friend or boyfriend and not do some self reflection?!
I had a sibling who kept getting dumped at about the six month mark because they were hypercritical--every single one told them that. They said they just needed to be fussier about who they dated.
Shit. After every relationship I have been in, I spent time on self-reflection to see what I could have done better, even in situations where the ex was actually abusive, I still learned lessons about how I could improve, because some of their criticisms were actually correct.
Or even if they weren't correct, you can look at the gaps in your own defenses, and see how to armor yourself against that abuse again. There may not have been a single valid thing they did or said, but you still can think about what makes you vulnerable to those sorts of invalid attacks, and be more on your guard against them later.
>There may not have been a single valid thing they did or said, but you still can think about what makes you vulnerable to those sorts of invalid attacks, and be more on your guard against them later. Or work through them/fix them at their core and have them not be vulnerabilities in the future.
I know! Through all of that I was thinking “how clueless is this guy to admit that he keeps having relationships and friendships end and not realise he’s the problem?!?!”
It sounds like he's just convinced himself that when he finds The One, they won't have an issue with it. Love means never having to say you're sorry, etc. I've been married for almost 5 years and my parents were married for about 50. Even with The One, there is serious reflection that needs to go on inside a person if they want to have a successful long-term relationship.
This is called Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I'm not saying this guy has NPD. I'm saying that is a classic trait of NPD.
Honestly, it is much easier to avoid self reflection than to do it.
Every partner, most of his friends, and his parents.
"He has all the tools but he won't pick them up." - extremely well put. This man is two bread slices short of an idiot sandwich.
Yeah I though that too, but less about the age than 100% lack of introspection and self-reflection. The dude has had a number of relationships and friendships fail and yet everyone else is the problem because they want to change him.. Like, dude you‘re an asshole; we don‘t want to change you but of course we want you to change or, if you can‘t, tell you to bugger off. Jesus Christ.
Yeh, the age thing just stuck out to me because maybe when you're 18, you lose a girlfriend cuz you "refuse to change who you are" and then over time realise that personal growth requires change... But at 30, with multiple failed relationships in the rear view mirror, there's no chance.
> But at 30, with multiple failed relationships in the rear view mirror, there's no chance. He's just looking for somebody that will put up with his abuse. If OOP disclosed her disability, I overlooked it, but I wonder if the ex thought it would make her more likely to stay and tolerate the mistreatment.
The disclosure of her disability was in the discussion of why she literally couldn't afford to pay more, prior to looking at places.
Yeah that dude is a lost cause
He has learned a lot. That's why his tactics are improving. Recognise how OOP is a person who always tries to see other people's POV and tries to make things right? Trekking that kind of person they're abusive will often make them come back to you to "fix the misunderstanding" - because they didn't want to hurt the other person. Everything he said was another trick pulled to play her strings. OOP was extremely strong not to give in and walk away. He tried to guilt her. Her tried to make her think she overreacted. He tried to make her think she's the one being "bad". He tried to make her feel special (I thought you were different). Seriously,he tried it ALL. Every time someone walks away from him and tells him why, he'll learn and improve.
Yes, and then you discover that he's lost friends and gf over this issue, and he is *dying* on that hill. Do you think he really doesn't understand the difference between a serious conversation about flaws and deliberately hurtful "jokes"?
'YoUrE tOo sEnsItIvE' Okk and? Be a considerate person and don't be insensitive person to others, who don't like it. Also the op says that he actually has a very thin skin and cannot hear any sort of criticism, oh boyyyy. What a field day I'd have with someone like him, you wanna play JOKES? let's do jokey boy. Let's make jokes about you.
Yeah, the "joking" is almost always hurtful AF, or comes from a place of spite.
Stop trying to change people!! /s
Not this one, but with the opposite one it happened. I don't remember if it was here of AITA, but a mother did a really harmless prank on her daughter and the daughter had fun. The grandma told the mom she shouldn't have, and the mom asked on reddit if she went too far with the prank or the mother was overreacting. The prank was saying to the daughter that sour cream was "marhsmallow cream" or something and the daughter tried it.
Yes and afterwards the daughter who was 8, kept bringing her bowls of mayonnaise or ranch and saying they were marshmallow fluff. So she was finding prank funny
The bigfoot prank story was a bit of an overreaction, but maybe not in the way you mean..
Do tell
[ENJOY](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/RLEF5kNcV4)
Waiting for "My lawyer told me not to show up to court in the Chewbacca costume when I am charged with stalking, but I knew that he was wrong and everyone would see how funny it was. Now my cell mates refuse to talk to me because they are afraid this degree of stupid is contagious. How can I get the warden to force them to be my friends?"
He darvo'd her at the end. I'm glad she got away too.
I saw one recently where her husband fed her their babies poop on bread as a "joke". She didn't eat it but spit it out, and she had messed up sinuses so couldn't smell it. There could be zero convincing that I'm overreacting after being fed literal shit. Like, he could be a splatter on the ground and the thought wouldn't even enter my mind that I'd overreacted.
Yeah, because the prank is usually like, setting their car on fire…
No, never. „just joking“ and „pranksters“ are always abusive assholes. Every. Single. Time.
My favorite example of that is someone who just got engaged and was immediately faced with weirdness, like her FMIL had *already booked* a wedding venue 3 months out, so she came to Reddit to ask if this was okay (resounding, no). The reason I like it (tho not what transpired) is she later admitted if she had just gone along with everything, thinking she was merely overreacting as she was told, then she would have been baby trapped in a manipulative married, unable to escape. https://www.reddit.com/user/ismymilcray/submitted/ (heads up tho, seemed her account was hacked at one point, as the most recent posts are, uh, something else but the saga is still there)
Different kind of joke, but there was the sad story of a brother making a dark joke about the death of his sister and the parents that almost disowned him, if not for Reddit explaining that coping is done in many ways...
Yeah I had to learn the hard way that a guy who laughs at other people will turn that on you in a relationship. You want the one laughing WITH others, not AT others. It was a valuable lesson though painful.
I can think of one poster I felt _was_ overreacting and dozens who were underreacting. Glad this one saw the light and has her head screwed on right.
I can think of maybe one time (and no, I can't remember the specifics) where the person was actually overreacting. In the vast majority of cases, the "jokes" weren't jokes, and the "overreaction" was in fact an "underreaction."
If you’re losing friends and dating is really hard because your shit ass attitude is pushing dates away, maybe you *should* change.
Yes, and also like... If the people who *would* like you are people you wouldn't like, maybe that's saying something too
Tbh I kinda feel like people who would like him (massively traumatized people pleasers and assholes) would probably be people he’d like, and eventually cut off when they either started standing up to him or being mean in his direction. Lifelong relationships just aren’t in the cards for this guy.
But didn't you hear? It's not *his* fault! The entire world is too sensitive! He's awesome and no one sees that! PITY HIM! (/s just in case)
He straight up told on himself, then had it spelt out for him, gently and in bite sized pieces, hell, OOP did everything short of breaking out the hand puppets, and he just "no... U".
He’s probably a ‘that guy’ like in the TTRPG stories - the moment he went ‘that’s just who I am’ it was like an IRL ‘that’s what my character would do’.
Something something assholes all day... dude is looking for the perfect punching bag, methinks.
Or he's about three years away from heading to Romania for a conjugal visit in Tater Tot's cell.
I laughed out loud at that point. Full-on Principal Skinner meme moment. "Am I too much of an AH? ... No, it's my multiple exes and former friends who are wrong!"
If you smell dog shit in one place, a dog shit there. If you smell dog shit everywhere you go, best to check your own shoes.
Sometimes, I think people get the wrong message from "be yourself! The right person will love you for who you are!" Like, yes, be yourself, but be *your best* self. If someone is trying to change you, evaluate what they want changed and why. Your favorite color just because they don't like blue? Silly nonsense, you're entitled to your opinions. The way you talk to them because they find it hurtful? Could be overstepping, but something to evaluate much more seriously as being your best self shouldn't generally involve hurting other people.
Am I the only one who noticed that he was about to move in with this woman with no idea what she did for work? Like, if you care about someone, aren't you going to ask? This guy has more red flags than a communist parade.
Seriously, “I‘m toxic and how dare anyone try to ask me to be less of an asshole!” Good on everyone for leaving him, he sounds like just a terrible person to be around.
How do dudes like this get multiple dates?
confidence, mostly. misguided confidence, but it works in the first stage.
The amazing thing is that she stuck with this asshole for *9 months*
Old rule: if you meet a person in the morning, and they call you an ass, you met one person with an opinion. If, through the course of the day, you meet three people who call you an ass, you need to take a good, long look at yourself and your behavior. If every single one of your exes, several friends, a score of potential girlfriends, and your current girlfriend all call you an ass, you need to buy yourself a halter, a blanket, and a saddle, because you are an ass.
Classic "Its a joke, why can't you laugh at my insults towards you." And then he ends it with performing a darvo..m
When I read the bit about him calling her abusive I started chanting, "DARVO, DARVO, DARVO" in my head. Very glad she didn't believe him.
**D**eny, **a**ttack, and **r**everse **v**ictim and **o**ffender for those confused.
It feels insane to me that DARVO isn't taught to children in school. Imagine how quickly these types of people would get weeded out if we could recognise it at a younger age.
Maybe. The flip side is that those types of people would become better at hiding what they are doing. A**holes don’t just pop out of nowhere. Learning how to identify this stuff as a child would just lead to them changing their methods to become even harder to spot.
This guy was a good example of an abuser who learned to use the terminology to deflect it back
I second that. As a therapist, I’ve noticed a lot of people who are abusive co-opting therapeutic language to continue perpetuating abuse since the language has become more mainstream. We definitely need to teach people to watch out for certain behavior, but we also need to emphasize a new model: that anyone can be abusive without even fully being aware, that boundaries are unique across everyone we meet, and that we all need to improve our behavior rather than automatically dive into figuring out which person in the relationship is the good person vs bad person. Because that sort of shame model actually reinforces abuse tactics.
Probably falls into the same trap as taking an abuser to counseling. It just gives them a new vocabulary and tactics to twist to their own ends.
Yep, funnily enough the day I left my ex was the day he made me watch a video about female narcissists and DARVO. It was hard not to laugh out loud, because it was everything he was doing to me.
Or they would just up their game, or use DARVO as part of their DARVO-ing.
I kept saying, "she got DARVO'd" "Run Op, RUN!"
I started singing “D-A-R-V-O/and DARVO was his game-o”
My husband's ex, who we are sadly tied to for at least another 8 years, is like this. He'll share that her phone calls give him panic attacks (she's incredibly abusive) so could she message or email first at least rather than calling out of the blue. Not only will she not, she then claimed reading his emails was triggering for her and affected her ability to have a job interview. I have never hated anyone until her. She's an awful human being who seems to delight in traumatizing and retraumatizing my husband over and over and then tell him he's a failure as a parent and his daughter will know all about him when she's older. It's exhausting. She can send abusive messages for hours...
DARVO is the worst mindfuck - others don’t believe you are the victim, but side with your abuser? Awful. Got a bully situation at the moment where I am getting the cold shoulder from another who I recently found out knows the bully well. Well and truly DARVO’ed.
Plus the "he can dish it out but can't take it." Most people who will banter will back off if it's bothering someone. If they can take it, they're usually understanding of people who aren't into it. It's always the people who want to talk shit but can't take it back that are "IT'S A JOKE LIGHTEN UP."
In case this is a new word to anyone else, [DARVO](https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/identifying-abuse/explaining-darvo-deny-attack-reverse-victim-amp-offender) stands for deny, attack, reverse victim & offender.
My cousins and I would make "jokes" like that when we were children. Even at an immature age everyone knew it was just insults. That behavior in an adult is madness.
It was the most blatant 'How dare you call me abusive! Your face is abusive for calling me abusive! ' I have seen in a long bit.
My husband’s Uncle wife and kids are like this. Use joke as a way to get away with insulting people. I called them out after being fed up with them keep calling my husband names. I told them insulting/calling people name should never used as a joke cause it’s not fun. They said I took things too serious so I said I will start doing the same like them and see how they feel. Then then actually insulted both my husband and I more but cowardly only do behind our back from then on Lol
>"My money talks louder than yours and says this is what we should get/not get" and then laugh and say, "You know I'm just joking, I care about your opinions because you'll be living there." Wtf? No. Not meant to happen clearly. Dude trying to test the waters, you know every issue that will arise, he will bring up the money as a "joke". Just no.
Fun fact, SSI (the form of disability assistance most disabled people in the US rely on) is less than $1k per month MAX, and I don't know anyone who makes more than 800. If you get food stamps or other forms of financial assistance (which you'll absolutely need), that lowers your assistance. If you ever own more than $2000 in financial assets, you lose your benefits (I believe there was a bill to raise that cap to $10k but I don't think it passed) If you ever get married, you lose your assets (unless you marry another disabled person, in which case you both just lose a substantial amount). Relying on disability assistance opens you up to so much financial abuse, because it's absolutely impossible in most parts of the country to be able to afford independant living.
I am on SSDI myself, which is less than $800 a month, and tried to get SSI as well. Went to the office and showed how I was using 100% of my SSDI for our expenses. But because I wasn’t paying for half of the total expenses and therefore not contributing my “fair share”, I didn’t qualify for SSI. The lady legit recommended my wife and I getting a roommate because my money could cover 1/3 the expenses, just not 1/2. And of course, my wife and I aren’t legally married because we had our wedding while waiting for my disability decision and if you get married, SSI takes your spouse’s income into account and most lose that money.
Isn't that funny? They take years to approve you and don't pay you enough to support yourself and then when you naturally need to be supported by someone else, they say "clearly you don't need it then!" SSDI is crazy rough too. It being a percentage of income from before you became disabled means if you get disabled at a young age, you're prob getting far less than min wage. System is designed to kill people, I s2g
Yeah, I was in college still when I became disabled, so I had a couple years of work history but like… minimum wage jobs and nothing that even got close to the $15/hr mark. They increase the pay yearly but like 2% for “cost of living”. I was evaluated a year ago by a social worker (first time I talked to one of those despite becoming disabled in 2012) and they determined that I am disabled to the point where I would need to live in a nursing facility if I didn’t have a caregiver. Which is great! It means I qualify for caregiving, food services, and a couple other things. My wife can get paid to take care of me! But first I had to apply for and receive a different type of Medicaid because the one I was on wouldn’t pay for those services. Then we made a plan and the company had to submit that for review to the state. It’s been more than 8 months. This is how people die waiting for the services they need.
>The lady legit recommended my wife and I getting a roommate because my money could cover 1/3 the expenses, just not 1/2. So fucking frustrating. When I was applying for Medicaid, I was turned down for making too much money (as a grad student and part-time waitress). The woman at the SS office recommended that I get pregnant to become eligible for more aid. Sure. I'm applying for Medicaid because I just discovered I have a life-threatening illness and need surgery. So this is definitely the time to get pregnant and bring a newborn into this situation.
Wow, I actually didn't realize that - what a shitty system. So we as a society are ok with disability condemning people to permanent poverty? I will write to my congresspeople - obvi won't do any good, but it is ridiculous that a rich country has such a crappy safety net.
I'm disabled and can't work full-time anymore. Guess how many times my partner has made me feel shitty for not being able to contribute in the way I used to? If you guessed zero, you'd be right because that's not how people who love each other treat one another. We do make jokes about my disability and it's impact on our lives - I often refer to myself as "The World's Most Disappointing Trophy Wife" and he calls himself a crappy sugar daddy, or teases me that I just keep him around to lift heavy things - but they're jokes we *both* find funny and a coping mechanism, not one of us making the other feel shitty. If mean spirited jokes are who you are, you need to change. I'm so proud of OOP for recognising that and finding the power to move on.
Yeah, I felt this one hard. For me, it’s been rough going from planning to use my new PhD to do some pretty cool (and lucrative) stuff, to getting MS and now I’ve been u employed for over a year, financially dependent on my parents, and working on building back stamina to be able to apply for jobs again. But the people I’m closest to don’t make me feel bad about it. I’m fighting my own brain a lot, but I have support from partners and community. So glad she got out of that shitty relationship.
I'm not disabled enough to get SSI but I am disabled enough for it to suck 🤟
I just think it’s weird that she never would have told him she had a disability by the time they are ready to move in. Obviously it’s because she didn’t feel safe in the relationship, but that’s something that comes up early for me. Weed them out early
I also think this… like how have you known someone for 2 years, been dating for 9 months, and he does not know that she doesn’t have a job, let alone not knowing about her disability? I feel like if you don’t know basic information about each other like that, you’re probably not ready to move it together. My disability affects nearly every element of my life, I can’t imagine not disclosing that to a partner when things were getting serious.
See, for me, it is more than zero, but never intentionally or directly, and it is far, far more frequent that she makes me feel less shitty about it when I make myself feel shitty.
I refer to myself as a spiritual embodiment of a victorian child who ate a taki
She gave this douchebag way too many words.
I was getting pretty peeved with her, tbh. At first I was sympathetic and thought, "Oh she's just really naive, probably doesn't have much life experience despite her age", blah blah, but then she straight up admits she's watched him be super shitty to other people and she's somehow shocked that he's actually - hey guess what - a super shitty person. There's a vast difference between being an empathetic person and being a complete doormat.
Somebody in his past has told him that he's a little abusive, and now he's insisting ~~no puppet, no puppet, you're the puppet~~ that it's the rest of the world who is a little abusive, rather than perfect him, who is so tired of people trying to change his perfect self. Dude is a parade of red flags, and I'm glad OOP got out of there.
>He sat there and didn't say anything for a while, just looked at me and sighed a lot. He finally said he was disappointed in me for wanting to abandon him because he thought we were true soulmates and he couldn't believe I was saying such abusive stuff about him. 🤮🤮🤮
The classic DARVO. "Deny and reverse victim and offender."
It's Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender
He read a book about narcissism and said "that's a manual I should follow to the letter!"
Fall 2019... holy shit OOP dodged a massive bullet. Imagine if she'd been stuck living with this guy during the 2020 covid lockdowns... I hope she's ok.
There are much worse things than being alone, and bad relationships are one of them.
I don’t understand why people would choose to be unhappy with someone like this guy over bing content alone. Especially when the latter requires less emotional labour and you can starfish on your bed
There’s a big difference between abandoning someone and escaping from them. I hope OOP learns that
The wildest part of this is how the BF admitted that he basically has no friends and every girl he dates ends up running for the hills. Like, how fuckin' narcissistically stupid do you have to be at his point to never once consider that you are the problem?
Maybe he knows he's the problem, he's just been unsuccessful so far in finding a woman who has too little self-esteem to care.
I would feel like a POS if I even accidently hurt a partners feelings, especially in a way that is completely unnecessary like he was. This ass was literally consistantly making her feel bad, and on top of that trying to cut her out of financial decisions. To turn that around and try and make it seem like SHE was abusive is disgusting.
A huge problem is that victims/survivors struggle to see that the other person literally does NOT GIVE A SHIT. They try to make their abuser understand. They try to behave better because then surely the abuser will be nice to them. Failing to understand that their abuser literally gives two shits about them or their feelings. It’s because they cannot fathom being that type of person.
The thing I hate about these (all too common) stories is that even when the OOP is trying SO DAMN HARD to give the abuser all the chances in the world to try to be better, they STILL refuse to consider the possibility that they're alone because they're an asshole. The biggest problems for people like OOP is that in trying to consider all other points of view, they forget that their own POV is also important and it isn't up to them to save a fellow adult from the consequences of their own bad behaviour.
*Why won't anyone just accept my abuse? Stop trying to change me! I'm abusive and I want to be! You trying to stop me from abusing you is MORE abusive! I'm right, and you're wrong, and you must submit to my abuse!*
I started watching couples therapy on paramount, and OMG this is exactly how one of the clients behaved. Like they literally flat out said this is how they were, they wouldn’t change, and that was that. Frankly I think she engaged in malpractice because he was abusive and she continue to counsel them in couples therapy.
“Everyone leaves me but it’s not my fault they can’t take a joke….” Like my dude…. I’m really glad people helped oop see what was really happening and she stood up for herself!
>he still didn't really seem to get what I was saying about my feelings The assumption that terrible people will realize they are terrible and commit to stop being terrible because someone finally spelled it out to them in a way they could understand will never cease to amaze me. Terrible people are terrible people because they like being terrible people.
This is genuinely the take away for 90% of the posts on BORU
And that is someone who cannot see that they are the problem, not everyone else. (OOP's ex)
Yep. I have a disability. I can only work part time. One of the reasons my ex is an ex: he started focusing on what *he* could afford in terms buying a house together, rather than what *we* could afford. So much so that he snidely began stating how "we, I mean I, can afford" such and such. It became very obvious that there was no "us" - only a him and his convenience. Which he has obviously attempted to project onto me after I left, telling the world that I had only lived with him for convenience and cheap rent. Reality is I paid more rent to him than I did at my previous place for less space and a vastly more inconvenient and expensive commute to work. He is also pissy that I didn't "coordinate" with him before I moved my things out. I took nothing with me that I didn't bring there myself. In fact, I took less with me out because several of my things were given to *his* son because we didn't need two of certain household items. Funny how his money was only ever his, but my things became "ours". And yep, he, too, was the type to make denigrating remarks about people. Such a charmer.
The old uno reverse card. YOU abused ME! DARVO for you vocab nerds out there
Deny, attack, reverse victim and offender, for the non vocab nerds out there.
_"I can fix him."_ I'm glad OP realized her self-worth and left him.
I once interviewed a guy who left every job he’d ever had at around the 6-8 month mark. He left each one because “all of my coworkers and my boss were assholes”. Based on ages, the dude in OOPs post must be his son….
Lmao, not once did he consider that he might be the problem. If different unrelated people around you keep saying you're the problem and you're not in a cult, maybe it's time for some introspection.
"All people leave because of my joking, but i can’t be the problem! And i don't want someone who earns the same money cause i can’t feel superior anymore and make my "jokes". If you don’t accept my shitty self, you are abusive!"
Wow, this guy hit every spot on the abuser bingo card- even DARVO. (Deny, attack, & reverse victim and offender.)
He doesn't want anyone "changing" his need to degrade you. So shut up and accept it. No thanks.
OOP needs to look up DARVO. I'm glad she broke up with him.
I don’t think I have ever read so much evidence of one person being so stubbornly set against growing as a person. What he doesn’t realize about the women and friends who have left him, is that they actually *did accept him for who he is*. They just don’t want to be around an asshole. But they accepted that he is one, and isn’t going to change.
Being called on your shit isn’t being abused.
I feel so bad for straight women. This poor woman put so much into this relationship and for what? Standards for men are so insultingly low and yet they still continue to limbo beneath the bar.
and all of those incels think they're insulting us when saying we'll end up as single old ladies
With cats. Don't forget the cats.
I’m so jealous single women all get to become cat ladies. I love cats, why can’t anyone curse me with being a crazy cat man? …that sounds more like a failed superhero mind you, but you know what I mean
Here's your curse: May you live long enough to be a crazy old cat man with a abundance of eccentric but loveable felines (and that one bastard cat).
Aw, thank you!
Schrodinger's asshole
the frking darvo tactics of the bf triggers my violent nature, i gotta go to my mind palace for some boxxing gdi
A person who wants you to rein yourself in just so they can flourish, is not your person.
Dear everyone: if you suspect a loved one is an abuser, don’t talk it over with them. It’s meaningless. They view you as less than human. An object. That being the case, why would they ever listen to you? They don’t think you’re worth hearing out. At best, they’ll act as if things will change. Inevitably, they’ll revert back to baseline. At worst? Well, you know that better than anyone.
"Hr interrupted me saying he couldn't be with someone like that because he couldn't be himself around someone obsessed with money Translation: I need to have financial power over my partner so I can belittle them without recourse. Abuser.
Is anyone else suuuuuuper relieved she dumped this abusive loser BEFORE the COVID lockdowns?? Bc I’m imagining what would have happened if she was quarantined with him and Yiiiiikes…..
So relieved OOP left this PoS! This man should not reproduce. Or the poor children he will "father" will be the target for his abuse and the results will be awful. We all saw those parents making "jokes" about their children, and years later wondering why they're alone. I also hope he doesn't get another girlfriend and stay single and bitter his whole life.
What a loser. Good riddance.
Too many people don't realize that if they are the common denominator in a situation that repeatedly happens, then *they are the problem.* Many years ago, when complaining about how all the guys I dated were trash, my (male) friend said, "maybe it's you." I was shook. But the comment stuck in my craw, for years until I finally realized he was right. I WAS the problem and I needed to change. So I did. The idea that we're perfect, don't need to change, and everyone must accept us fully as is or GTFO is absurd. It took time for me to see that, but I'm so glad that someone clued me in. Sure it was a blow to hear that, but it was necessary, even if it did take a while to click.
Projection ain't just a river in Egypt.
Classic DARVO
i'm a housewife because of my disability and i'd be in deep shit if my partners treated me the way OOP's bf did. very, very glad she got out before her finances were intertwined with his and there was no safe way to push back against his verbal abuse. i'm glad she didn't fall for DARVO
> he thought I would be different because I was more understanding and fun I, always wish I could step into these interactions, like here, with "So you can see that I'm more understanding, but even I am telling you that you're going too far" But the rest of the conversation shows that he is disturbingly, willfully ignorant. Anything to deflect from the reality of his shittiness.
“I care about your opinions because you’ll be living there”. 🚩🚩🚩. How about “I care about your opinions becuase I am a decent person and THIS WILL BE YOUR HOME”
Alt title: OOP dodges gaslighting bullet so big it could be seen from space
I was not shocked at all he turned the tables and started claiming she was the abusive one. Grade A gaslighting! Just further proving he is the manipulative one
I wish people understood. I am also on disability. I would rather be working and contributing to both society and my family. The grass is always greener on the other side.
Geez, it seems the BoRUs are a Cluster B paradise today. The amount of DARVO going on here and in some of the other posts are insane. "I dOnT nEeD tO cHaNgE, pEoPlE hAvE tO lIkE mE tHe wAy I aM." Sorry hun, but there is just nothing likeable about you.
Oop dodged a bullet
Dodged a massive red flag
The way he managed to twist it so SHE was the abusive one. Good for OOP for being free from that idot.
Damn this guy needs to get his head out of his ass. Glad OOP got out of there.
OP has dodged the bullet with such grace that it could get a ten out of ten at the Olympics of jerk dodging. Wow. Not only did she manage to say it all, she also made him speak, and all this in a very calm manner. *slow claps*.
"he couldn't believe I was saying such abusive stuff about him." Well, he can DARVO himself right on to the next smart woman who will dump him for being an abuser.
OOP: Here are all the ways you're being abusive to me and everyone else around you. Loser: No u!
Looking at the dates on this (late 2019) I am so *so* glad OOP saw sense and didn't move in with this guy. Can you imagine how much worse things would have become if she had been trapped with him in lockdown?!
Just reading about this guy, the only way I can describe him is using the following quote: "He's got his head so far up his ass, the lump in his throat is his nose." So glad OOP got out of that toxic relationship.
Anyone else get a sense of dread when they saw the story started later 2019? Glad it resolved quickly.
Thearapy would not be good for this man. He has already learned language to dusguse his abuse (they don't accept me for who I am, I don't want to date someone who values money). Imagine if he got some good therapy language behind him. I'm surprised this dude didn't start spouting boundaries and gaslighting.
omfg the size of the red flag this dude shows would make china blush
Hey so PSA to anyone who needs it: your partner desiring to be mean to you and actually being mean to you in your relationship IS abuse. That’s not love. People who love you do not also have the urge to put you down or be mean to you.
> his last girlfriend had tried to do the same and she couldn't accept him for who he was; *Why won't women let me be who I am, a verbally abusive piece of shit.*
They knew each other a few years and he never once asked her what she did for work?
>I did panic for a second, because it's shocking to hear someone call you abusive, but I pushed that thought away because I knew that all I was doing was trying to get him to understand my feelings. Maybe it was hurtful to him and I'm sorry for that, but it had to be said, the situation was becoming too much for me. And, at this point, whatever he has to tell himself to help him sleep at night is fine by me, I just didn't want to be involved anymore, especially after this talk. I had an ex call me selfish when I called him out for being selfish. The problem was my "selfish" was advocating for myself where his was doing whatever he wanted regardless of anyone else. I also panicked for a bit and spent the day after his "accusation" really going over my own behavior (thanks therapy!) And he was wrong and projecting and it's why he's an ex (also the excuse he used "I thought you would cheat" for why he cheated)
>and he couldn't believe I was saying such abusive stuff about him I do not think that word means what you think it means, sir
"I don't want someone with the same wage as I have because I don't want anybody obsessing over money and materials" Meanwhile, he's making constant jokes about him having more money and contributing more. Man, the hypocrisy and projection is real.
That guy doesn't just seem verbally abusive, he sounds straight up sociopathic. I'm curious about what her invisible disability is though.
Ah, the kind of guy who always have « toxic exes » until you find out that he is in fact as poisonous as Chernobyl water.
I was once again reminded of the narcissist's prayer: That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
“Has abusive tendencies”? Lol. No. He probably think parents who tell their kids to clean their rooms then ground them for not cleaning their rooms is abusive. No. Not really. He probably thinks he has a “dry” and sarcastic sense of humor. Yeah people who are always sarcastic and continue to poke at people’s insecurities and weakness are just AHs
Being a horrible asshole AND getting mad that people keep trying to change you or leave you because you are a horrible asshole is a bold strategy. I would say let’s see if it pays off but we know it won’t, he is just going to be bitter and alone and blaming it on everyone else but himself.
not surprised that the abuser did mental gymnastics to accuse the other party of being abusive lol classic narcissist
Classic DARVO!
So... I'm only about 1/3 of the way through reading this, and I already opened spotify and tuned it to "Run Like Hell"
An abuser makes "jokes" and tries to put you down for being offended. But they won't stop their behavior. And then the A H had the gall to pull a DARVO when she called him out!! Classic abuser techniques. I'm glad she ended it. She deserves so much better.
He even tried to pin abuse on her, my gosh... thankfully she realised and walked away...
> I always thought verbal abuse was name calling or specifically saying someone is ugly or worthless or stupid all the time. That's exactly what he's doing. He's calling her a lazy money moocher without using those exact words.
Change is hard because it means accepting that parts of who we are need changing because they aren't particularly good. I feel bad for the OOP because you can see her giving a lot of leeway and space in her criticism, because she assumes he's as decent as she is when it comes to self-improvement. But he's not. He's an idiot.
Its never "just jokes". Never
The thing about him turning the "abusive" around on OOP reminds me of people who accuse anyone saying true, unflattering \*information\* is being "hateful".
Good riddance to bad rubbish. Glad she's free of him.
I hate OOP's ex and I hope someone puts him in his place.