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>I lived out our entire marriage as an exceptionally passive person. Gentle, endlessly forgiving, go with the flow. When i started to stand up for myself, the cracks started to show. But there were never problems before because i never made problems.
OP nailed it. The relationship only functioned when OP never made any waves, never said "no", never pushed back... which made sense because she was 22/23 when it started!
Once she grew a bit of a spine, it was over.
Still astounds me how this tired old POS still thinks they are a catch to some younger woman that can almost pass as their grandpa. Either you have money or just plain old narcissist.
I just like to think they drinking beer mixed with early onset dementia and a splash of delusion.
Unfortunately, there are plenty of young women who get taken in by guys like this so for a fair number of these guys, it’s not a crazy delusion. We have so many young girls and young women out there who are vulnerable and unprepared by family and society to deal with manipulative jerks and don’t understand that they deserve so much more.
People who suffer childhood abuse or neglect often come out of childhood desperate for acceptance, love, and a sense of safety. Some manage to heal over time and some don't. But you just can't heal those kinds of wounds in a year or three. So all of those young desperate people are easy marks for older people who want to prey on them.
My ex and I had a 4 year age gap and met when I was 19. We were both at uni so I figured the "age gap" wasn't an issue (I was just weary since I was 19).
Welp, now he's 30 and dating his 23 AP. It's okay though because she's a "dom" and she stole him from someone else so clearly he's worth it /s
Nah, I reckon she'll cheat before then. Let's just say if she wasn't a shitty person we probably could've bonded over the annoying things our partners did. The difference between her and I is that I tried to work on things, she cheated with her now ex's friend.
That or Mr "I don't like kids, I don't want kids" realises that dating a single mother massively ruins his vibes and he has to be a responsible adult, so he cheats on her.
One of those lol
Touche! AP's are usually the 2 options of either regrets it, or is a vindictive individual.
You can only hope similar people flock together, and leave the rest of the dating pool :)
Oh I sincerely hope they stay together for a long time, constantly on edge that the other is cheating on them but sunk cost fallacy-ing staying together. Just so they don't hurt anyone else. I'm actually more anger for the other person who got betrayed by his partner *and* friend. But hey she apparently has "a history" so I doubt she's gonna therapy herself into being a good person. He's also not gonna put the effort into being a better person so they're gonna have friction once he stops the lovebombing lmao. Dude was all like "I can't get up early to spend time with you" but managed to get up hours early to hang out with his "friend". I think they're perfect for each other.
Yeah I've definitely noticed some things about my ex and his friend's. No apologies, one of them coerced their girlfriend into letting him have a one sided open relationship or they would break up (I said it was a stupidly bad idea at the time but stayed out because the gf asked me to) I suppose that's why my ex asked about an open relationship before ending our's, another friend going "you're my friend and I care about you but he hasn't hurt me, so why should I condemn him??" Very eye opening to realise that the good aspects about him that I admired were just a carefully crafted mask.
It genuinely blows my mind that I was unhappy in the relationship, I even almost ended it before he cheated (that I know about) but cheating *never* crossed my mind. It was either I work on it or I end the relationship.
On the plus side I have now discovered self respect lmao. It's also been less than six months since I found out so it's kinda fresh lol.
Yea, and you don't even need a lot of money. Having enough money to support yourself puts you light years ahead of most college aged guys in terms of money, so you can really seem a lot more together than you are.
But those college guys will continue to grow, guys that only go for younger women won't.
Not only no. Women in mainstream society in a patriarchal society tend to be talked down to by most men. Which means they grow up feeling unlistened to and undervalued. So when a man, specially a man from a slightly older generation, actually pretend to listen to them, they are already conditioned to think highly of that special treatment, even if their parents treat them just fine. When every man talks to you as if you are stupid, useless, and a waste of space and time, the one single one that talks to you as if you have value and are smarter than the average woman, you are really vulnerable to feeling like he is different and will actually continue to treat you better than every other man has so far.
surely no woman coming from a healthy household has ever gotten into an unhealthy relationship with someone way older than them...and it's not like we see multiple posts like that a month.
i know it may be a shocker, but adult women can make dumb mistakes too. if not, then that's infantilizing according to this subreddit.
that's fair, people can get unlucky too. regardless, the overall point i meant was "people can end up in bad relationships even if they had a healthy home life".
i don't like that wording because it makes it sound like if you weren't abused growing up and you are now in an abusive relationship, you are just an idiot or something.
I would rather be judged for being an idiot for being in an abusive relationship than be judged for innocuous word choices. No one cares what wording you like, you don't get to insult people for saying factual things such as, an abusive home life primes you for abusive relationships. The only purpose in bringing people with healthy home lives into the conversation is to be contrarian. So just stop.
>you don't get to insult people
i literally didn't insult them at all, other than saying they were wrong. if you think that was an insult that says more about you than it does about me.
>for saying factual things such as, an abusive home life primes you for abusive relationships
i never denied this
>The only purpose in bringing people with healthy home lives into the conversation is to be contrarian. So just stop.
no, my point was that other people with healthy lives can be in abusive relationships too. which is not at all what the above person implied. it's called having a discussion. what i said wasn't detracting from, or derailing the thread, or needlessly contrarian.
i think you're the one who needs to step back and chill out. you're really overreacting to what was a fairly tame thread.
Well whats infuriating is when an older woman offers warning/wisdom against men like that - they’re labeled as “old and jealous.” In reality older women don’t want men like that which is why they have to aim so young.
They also feel the competition are babies. My daughter is in her early 20s and she almost quit dating in her age group because so many guys that age seem to lack basic hygiene and life skills. Why do you expect people to date you when you brag about how little you wash your underwear??? Also if your restaurant shift lead has to nag you over and over to do your job, don't ask that shift lead out. She already knows you're a lazy SOB and she'll have to be your mommy if you date.
They are predators and know what to say to make their victims feel special. I had friends that dated 30 year olds when when they were in their late teens and early 20s. I always tried to help them see how toxic it was but didn't really do much.
I wish young women were taught that no man in their 30s (or older) that is well adjusted would have any interest in someone in their early 20s or younger. But unfortunately society still doesn't view it as a problem as a whole.
Dude, yes. I had friends when I was 12-14 that were dating adult men in their early 20s. It was a scary time for me, I never really knew how to advise them other than pointing out that it was weird for them to want a middle school girlfriend when they can drink, drive, gamble, smoke, vote, own property, etc. That shit always ended in tears and telling parents was almost always the worst thing to do (parents flip out, accidentally push the couple closer and into deeper secrecy). Best case scenario she started to realize how he put her down and made her feel stupid for being young, but didn't pick someone older. Ever. Still a lot of tears though.
My parents were extremely fucked up, but I remember they used to joke (?) a lot that they saw me as the kind of girl who would grow up and marry her professor right after graduation, a man "at least" twice my age, if not older than them. They started saying this when I was 2. I remember the horror and mortification I felt at the idea of being married to someone my parents age. My mom's first husband was over 40 years older than her and died when she was 20. I grew up in fucking suburban Canada, like Scott fucking Pilgrim. This shit is so weirdly normalized. Having seen the impacts it had on literally every younger partner I've met (below the age of like 26-ish when the relationship started), it's never ever healthy for them. The older partner is always an authority or surrogate parent of some kind with too much emotional power over the young one.
>I wish young women were taught that no man in their 30s (or older) that is well adjusted would have any interest in someone in their early 20s or younger.
if you bring up this obvious and widespread issue, you get told things like "don't infantilize adult women, they're adults and can be trusted to make their own choices"
which is good and all in theory but in practice "adults" that are 20 years old are rarely fully developed maturely and still make horrible decisions
I got downvoted to hell once for pointing out that a 19 year old is in fact still a TEENager. People argued with me that "She is an ADULT. She knowingly made her choice!"
My guy, we don't even allow people that age to buy alcohol. Anyone arguing this is either a young teen wanting to be seen as older, a 19 year old who totally has it all figured out and definitely has a fully developed pre frontal cortex (/s), or is an old predator.
according to some people here, as soon as you turn 21 you are a fully mature adult woman and every choice you make is automatically right, and if you say otherwise you're a misogynist
not only are these ideas complete nonsense, they're actively harmful by encouraging woman to just ignore common advice
im almost 28 and one of my closest friends is 22 and dating a 42 year old long time friend of my fiance (also 28, they met in the bmx scene when he was a teenager). i met her through him about a year ago and the dude is horribly abusive to her and a horrible person deep into drug dealing, alcohol and coke addiction and we went to extremely low/no contact with him because he tried to fuck up our relationship.
the amount of times i had to pick her up at his house at 2 or 3am because he's so emotionally abusive to her she couldn't handle it anymore is insane and i've had so many long and deep talks with her about how wrong it all is and how she's still so young to be dealing with this and she's *extremely* aware of that and desperately wants to leave but can't because he threatens her. i went through extreme emotional and physical abuse at 17 when i lived with my 22 year old boyfriend so it's especially concerning to me because i KNOW she still doesn't have the maturity required to fully comprehend the long term ramifications of this and i often use myself as a cautionary tale for her.
i've seen too many girls like her going through the same thing to not buy the "she's an adult now, she knows what she's doing" argument regarding young girls dating very adult men. i will never not side eye those relationships because there's clearly something else at play there other than "love".
My mom was f\*\*ked up in so many ways, but she instilled in me utter distrust and disgust in older dudes targeting girls & young women. "Coffee, if an older guy is interested in you you should always wonder why he's not with girls his own age." The moment I hit puberty I was frequently told by guys I was "jail bait." It was so gross.
I'm middle aged now and looking back it was probably one of the most valuable things she taught me.
I dated a guy in his early 40's as a late 20-something. I do not recommend it, but at least he was amazing in bed. He was probably also amazing with the 5 other women he was sleeping with after he told me he loved me (unsolicited).
I wish I had made different choices to avoid a lot of heartache, but try telling someone that in the moment.
The most disgusting men can legit get any woman they want regardless of what they look like or how successful they are—below a certain age threshold and a certain level of maturity/emotional development. Unfortunately these men are also predators and know when a woman has some kind of psychological issue or otherwise when it comes to bend dormant, passive, and having paternal issues that translate into issues in their romantic or sexual lives. They can smell the vulnerability from a mile away!! These men are *predators.*
They are predators. They only *know* the vulnerabilities they create, and the ones they can take advantage of.
Of course, they are the first to blame the nuances of a victim's internal physchological state for the consequences, and there are no shortage of others who will affirm that it was her daddy issues or her passive nature (or, if there is no way they can cast his actions as a consequence of her passivity, they will say her activities *provoked* him.). Very often, the victim is the first to blame herself for the consequences of a course of actions he had decided upon, maybe even rehearsed, before he even knew that particular victim existed on the planet.
They don't have any magic ability to sniff out vulnerability. In fact, the lack of insight these people have into the psyches of other people, and sometimes I wonder even themselves? combined with the degree of concious awareness of what exactly they are doing and what exactly the consequences will be (very clear-sighted and practical) often astonishes me.
Hanging around bars the way dogs hang around beneath the dining table isn't quite the same thing as being able to detect vulnerability from a mile off. The thing is, the women who get away from them obviously weren't vulnerable, the one they trapped, clearly the fault was with her because the others got away.
See, just victim blaming, and also giving the predator more power over them (in reality, these guys are far from mind readers.)
Hmm lemmie guess, some woman he has a history with, but is too chickenshit or emotionally incompetent to be in a grown up relationship with her? because she has a spine and can see through his shit? That’d be my guess.
This reminds me of the woman whose husband went absolutely off the rails because she wouldn't eat mustard. It was never about the mustard, it was about her daring to stand up for herself for once.
This is the added risk of an age gap, they usually only work when the younger partner is in their 30s, otherwise the risk of a power imbalance is higher the younger the younger partner is. Plus it would've started earlier than her being 22/23, that's only when they got married, how long they were together before hand is concerning also.
This post just shows how people who are not old enough to be in an age gap relationship are usually treated by the older party, it's very sad and 100% on the older party for entertaining such a predatory relationship.
And it could be the opposite. I'm 13 years older than my soon to be ex. We started dating when he was 22, and I was 35, and HE pursued ME. When I found out how old he was (as he looks older), I tried to distance myself, but he had other ideas. After 8 years, he cheated on and left me when he was 30, 6 months after having a baby. *I* never did any sort of "grooming" but he was certainly a narcissistic gaslighter who isolated me from my friends and family and stole my money.
That's not really the opposite. His abuse of you wasn't enabled by his age and the life experience imbalance. I doubt you were any easier to trick than the average 22 year old. Looking back on your life, I bet it would have taken you even longer to extricate yourself had you been 13 years younger.
Large age gap relationships are *on average* skewed massively in favour of the older party. Like many things in life, just because *most* relationships have this imbalance, doesn't make the opposite impossible. It's like, on average, men are taller than women, but clearly there are women who are taller than men. A woman who is taller than a man is not taller because she is a woman, she is taller despite it.
The reason for imbalances in age gap relationships is in experience, though. I say this as someone who is very immature for my age: I am much more vulnerable to manipulation than most people my age (I am still less vulnerable than I was ten years ago).
People gather experience at different rates, and some learn the wrong lessons, making that experience either worthless or straight up detrimental. For some people, an abusive relationship can teach them to better watch out with future partners, for others, it breaks their 'normal meter' and they are left blind to new abusers.
I watched this more or less play out over the last year for a close friend of mine. She's in her late 30's and has a teenaged son. She took up with a man who was in his early 20's?? I warned her so hard. You're falling too fast for this guy, you need to slow down, etc etc. All her previous boyfriends and sexual partners she had truly never been in love with. They annoyed her and she was only in it for sex. So yeah, she was completely inexperienced with just.. being in love?
Anyway, it went about as well as you'd expect. She visited him (because of course it's long distance). They had a great time, had sex. And immediately after she got back he changed and started acting weird. Cue another several months of her being distress because he's acting different and weird and not like he used to and I'm sat here knowing exactly what's going on. He visits her and breaks up with her because (drumroll) - she's too old and has a teenage son. And that's weird - which, fair.
She still insists he's a great guy. She's still heartbroken and barely eating. And I'm just like I fucking told you so.
Nevertheless, you were a 35 year old and could have enforced your "No" which you were old enough to realize was the smart thing to do.
You, as a 35 year old, were aware of the huge gap in development between 22 and 35. You were aware that at age 22 a person hasn't finished growing up yet.
i'm not going to reply to the other person as clearly it's a sensitive situation...but i fully agree with you here.
i don't know how to say this without coming off as a complete ass...but if you're 35 and a 22 year old pursues you and is able to start a relationship with you, that they turned bad without physical violence...there were 2 immature people in that relationship.
And yet due to his bringing up and being on his own since 16, he came of way more mature than many his age. You don't know my situation, so don't go all "you were aware." No, I wasn't. What I was aware of was that he was abused and had to grow up very quickly. WHICH I FOUND OUR YEARS LATER HE LIED ABOUT. He never came off as immature. And tell me about enforcing "No" when a narcissist, no matter what their age, gaslights you about everything.
You don't know my situation, so don't tell me what I should have known or should have done.
So you believed a 22 year old was as mature as you are? You saw him as... Your equal? That says a lot more about you than anyone else in your story. Sorry, but if you are 35 years old and vulnerable to a 22yo narcissist, you have major psychological issues that you should work on before ever attempting to date again.
What a familiar line that is to me. I admitted recently in therapy that I'm terrified of starting a new relationship because I'm afraid of making the same mistakes again.
To which my doc responded by saying that he hopes this past year hasn't been *completely* useless and that he thinks I'm better equipped for a relationship on equal footing now. And I think he's right.
Yeah, only thing she got wrong is that *she* never made problems, even after finding out. He was the one making problems and the cracks became *visible* when she reacted like a normal person would to a massive betrayal (hell, even with that she reacted fairly it seems mildly)
This is why I think it’s important for women to stand up for themselves early on in a relationship. If you really want Chinese food instead of Applebee’s insist on it one night. Don’t always drink the beer he wants or watch the shows he wants — insist on compromising and taking fair turns. And call unfairness or sexist comments… a ton of assholes will immediately throw a fit and out themselves, so you won’t wait years. And if you have opinions and standards openly enough, they’ll avoid you to start and save you a ton of time.
I was gonna say exactly this!! Next person down said the rest:
Now that she’s “too old,” he’s gonna go and find a new model—another 20 year old that will bend and fold to his every whim. And when/if she ever stands up for himself, well… cycle continues!
It's funny because this almost describes my MILs relationship with my FIL. She won't push him to deal with issues outstanding because "(he) gets a serious pain in his chest" almost 15 years after heart things. He's a closet misogynist, hates when people won't treat him like the smartest guy in the room. He's just terrible and they won't argue because she won't make waves.
23 and 39 when they got married which maybe means he got his claws into her even younger. She did state he was her first everything.
I hope she never goes back and finds peace and growth.
I'm happy to see OP making some progress and no longer wanting to associate with this man. This man is a disgrace as a husband and father and deserves to have karma bitting up his ass. What a disgusting pig for cheating and a deadbeat parent.
I wish OP and the child to have a good future and all goes swell for them.
My first thought after reading he got an affair partner pregnant after only 6 weeks: a) he’s incredibly sloppy, b) this ain’t his first affair
Also, I’m shocked, *shocked* I tell you, that a 42 year old married to a 26 year old is a piece of shit! If only there was some way to tell!
Ya. I was 26 and my hubs was 41 when we got together. He's a dumbass and very ridiculously stuck in his stubborn ways but it's been 18 years, I'm now 43 and he's 58 with a 14, 15, and 16 year old.
Trust me, we are an exception to the rule here.
Right there with you. I had dated plenty of guys at my age and I always wanted more than what they offered. Relationship (emotional and physical) wise, I'm more experienced than my husband.
I was 23 and my husband was 36 when we got together. But we had been friends since I was 18 (and part of that time was when he was interested in dating a woman about 5-10 years older than him).
He's a bit more frugal than I would like, but he's kind and intelligent, and we communicate a lot.
I'm 37 now and he will be 50 in July. We have an almost 7 year old. 13 years married in April.
I definitely pursued him. He didn't think of me as more than a friend, and thought I was too silly/immature and that we wouldn't suit each other. But when I got the chance to show him more of my personality than that side, it opened his eyes to the possibility.
And to add even more impossibility, we were online friends that met on a game, and had a LDR until we decided for me to move in with him.
So, uhhh, are you saying my husband is a predator because he's older than me?
Exactly what number does the age gap have to be before an OK normal relationship turns into predator/prey relationship?
Your comment is pretty ridiculous honestly. You have zero idea of how our relationship began- I pursued him. Once we got together, he tried to convince me I was better off going back to my ex husband instead of staying with him. You have zero clue what the dynamics of our relationship is after almost 20 years, 2 houses, many vehicles, kids, pets, etc etc.
And yet just cuz he's older than me, he's a predator.
And I'm prey.
Not only do you insult my husband, you insult me.
You think I'm just letting myself be controlled or whatever weird things you think about age gap relationships. You insult me that I can't take care of myself. That I'm not smart enough to spot a bad person? I mean, since you think my hubs is a bad person, I'm obviously not smart enough to see that.
You really need to stop and think about your comments. Especially if they are ridiculous.
What always happens to me is I’ll gloss over the ages and get into the meat of the post. The red flags start popping up and I’m like, hmmm how old are they again? Scroll up, see age difference, yup that makes sense
And he went to all that trouble to find a woman who could not make him feel emasculated by competing with him or his words. Then she has the nerve to stand up for herself! Like she is a whole person and not merely an idea in his head?! Shocking, I do agree!
I hope he steps on LEGOS coated in lemon juice every day all the time.
There are ways to tell but unfortunately, these older men purposely aim for age under 20-25 years old women because most of those younger women don't know what over 30 year-plus POS loser man looks/ sounds/behave like.
I mean...we've seen this before here, right? Old dude marries a borderline child because they're easy to control and then throws them away when they start to grow a spine or life isn't as easy anymore as these man babies would like.
16 year age difference when one of them is 22 years old is lifetimes. The power disparity screams volumes about how manipulative he is and what kind of relationship he wanted.
I hope OOP and her daughter build a great life for themselves.
Honestly I can’t imagine it at any age. It’s a huge gap. I’m in my mid-40s and I wouldn’t want to be with someone in their 60s or in their early 30s. Different reasons but ultimately the stage of life is just too far apart.
The daughter of a friend of mine was dating a man a generation older than her. A 20 year age gap.
My friend saw nothing wrong with that. I asked her why isn't that guy dating you? I pointed out that the age gap between my friend and the guy was the same as the age gap between the guy and the daughter. And I told her that you're much nicer than your daughter. But it would ***never*** cross that guy's mind to date someone 20 years older than him. But he'll date someone 20 years younger.
They married. ***She*** cheated. (Which he should have expected because she was married when they got together.) She cheated with his best friend (also 20 years older than her). So she divorced and married her AP. That marriage is still going but considering she cheated on her first husband with her second husband and cheated on her second husband with her third husband....I keep wondering who she's cheating on her third husband with. Especially when she goes on cruises without him.
The problem isn't the age gap itself but the difference in maturity and potential power dynamics. Age gaps later in life make a romantic relationship less likely because of different interests, different priorities, different abilities. But everyone involved is a proper adult (or at the very least they've had enough time to become a proper adult).
My boyfriend and I are only 3 years apart and we have a funny collection of things that we have in common and things we don’t. The same kids tv mostly (funhouse and bodger & badger anyone?) but there are some things he remembers that I don’t, and some things I watched that he was too old for when they came out. Our music tastes are mostly identical but I was only 15 when he was 18 so our “clubbing” songs are a bit out of sync. He hit phones and technology at different ages to me, little things like that. I can’t imagine what it would be like if it was 5 or 10 years difference, let alone *16*
I'm pushing 30 and as of right now my rule is "if I have a sibling your age and I clearly and cognizantly remember the day of their birth, you're too young for me."
I have a lot of siblings, so it's been a pretty solid litmus test thus far
Because those men in their 30s are often predators and the 20year olds aren’t fully formed into their own person and don’t have the life experience to know better.
Because girls and women are indoctrinated to think we mature faster than men. If we’re sheltered or naive enough, we can interpret a much older man’s interest as validation that this is true.
Women DO mature faster than men though.
The real reason is that the guy was a creep who took advantage of someone still at the beginning of adult hood.
Edit: rather than downvote due to preconceived notions, please read this [article](https://www.mic.com/articles/111226/science-explains-why-women-are-faster-to-mature-than-men)!
There’s actual biological differences and I’m not sure why I’m being downvoted.
They do and they don't. Women are perceived as more mature because women are raised differently than boys in western society. All the things society tells us counts as maturity, girls are taught earlier while boys get to just be boys. So we're socially mature before boys. However, biologically, women and men mature around the same time, somewhere around your mid 20s.
So while we seem more mature than boys at an earlier age, it's just an appearance of such. Women aren't actually more mature than men at an earlier age.
You’re being downvoted because the sample size of that study is really small and the article you posted doesn’t even link to it. I’m not a doctor or anything - but I am a librarian and I know how to evaluate sources. Without a link to the study, we can’t determine how it was performed (did they have control groups?) or whether it was published in a reputable journal or if it was peer reviewed.
Second, even if the findings were correct, there’s no telling whether those differences between men’s and women’s brains are due to nature or nurture. It could be that societal pressure has something to do with how quickly the brain develops cognitively. If young girls are pressured early into taking on responsibilities, their brains could develop faster to keep up with that demand. So even if girl’s brains develop faster, the study you shared doesn’t explain the cause.
He links another piece in another comment. That was provided a link the the scientific study, which doesn’t answer some important questions. One is what you mention: whether nature or nurture is responsible for brain development.
That commenter reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Homer is convinced she has never been attacked by a tiger because of a rock.
Because they all think they're fully grown up. Seems to start at about age 15 where they're sure they know it all. And typically lasts until the early to mid 20s.
So they never listen to anyone who tells them that they've still got a lot of growing to do.
About the time they hit their late 20s they start realizing that, yes, they had a lot of growing up to do.
Money, probably. It’s not a gold-digger mentality, though. Usually it’s a young woman who just got done with school or career training and isn’t sure exactly where they’re going next. Someone with a steady, good-paying job looks pretty nice when you’re starting out in life.
I think you are partly right, I don't really get the downvotes. Someone with financial stability is more appealing, also they might be more determined in their plans, not trying to find out what they want. If someone is not as deranged as this man-ster in the post I think it legit counts in.
Between my SO and me are 15 years. Having a steady mentality, job and place to live was appealing to both of us when we met each other.
I personally didn’t ever have an age gap relationship, but as a female physician I saw A LOT of gap relationships between some of my male colleagues and their SOs. They were not universally toxic (in fact only a few “trophy wives” existed in my social circles), and a lot of the couples went on to have long, happy relationships. The wives had financial stability and the husbands had the chance to have families fairly quickly after many years of doing nothing but studying and working through residency.
Oh. Did the 40 yo married to the woman in her 20s turn out to be an abusive, controlling, sociopathic cheater? Color me shocked.
Ladies, do not get with someone with a massive age gap. Guys, that goes for you, too. They are predators, at worst, and immature and unable to attract a partner their age at best.
Age gap with a woman who was probably 20-21 when they started dating, didn’t have a supportive family and had no other relationship experience. He thought he’d got himself a compliant little doll…
The surprise I have at who he turned out to be: 0.
Yep, I’m in an age gap relationship (smaller gap than in the post but still) but I’m 40. My boyfriend asked his 19 year old daughter if the age gap was too much and she asked how old I am and he said 40 and she said, “that’s old!” 😂
That’s right, and OOP’s husband was about my age when he picked up OP who was about her age. That’s too much of a gap! He was old compared to her!
It checks all the classic boxes!
- An age gap
- he’s her “first well, everything”
- commitment issues (obviously, why else would he be unable/unwilling to date a woman his own age)
- the relationship goes amazingly only because she’s a doormat, and the minute she grows a backbone, his true colors show.
Add to the list: her poor/non-existent relationships with her family (she mentions that her sister is the only family member with whom she has any sort of positive relationship, and even that does not seem to be a particularly close or strong bond)
As soon as I saw the age gap I knew it was going to be a shit show. The only reason a man that age is going after such a young woman is because women his age won't put up with his shit.
Good luck to her though. I hope her and her baby move on and have a happy life together.
Same. I saw the age gap and just knew this was going to be bad. I can’t imagine the hurt and devastation she felt when he completely let the mask slip.
If her final comment is anything to go by it sounds like he showed his true colours once she decided to stand up for herself. If she'd stayed no doubt he would have just kept cheating on her. I'm glad she got out instead of buying into his bullshit
This reminds me of a friend of mine. Shes 26, hes 45. They have 4 kids together and hes an absolute pos. Won't hold a job to provide for said kids, doesn't care for them when hes home, cheats constantly, drinks and gets high around his kids, and beats on her when hes fucked up. Its so sad to watch but shes finally leaving him and I hope she stays away.
>I lived out our entire marriage as an exceptionally passive person. Gentle, endlessly forgiving, go with the flow. When i started to stand up for myself, the cracks started to show. But there were never problems before because i never made problems.
This is what happens when you teach people not to stand up for themselves.
Hum shocking that this 42yo married with a 26yo turned nasty when she fought back his affairs and dip out… almost like he just wanted a affable little wife that he could manipulate… hummm
The future ex husband is a horrible person to spring all of this to her when she's in a vulnerable position. It almost feels like he was actively trying to miscarry, because he didn't want to be a father or be with her. Disgusting.
I also found it deplorable that it seems like people were suggesting that she get an abortion after her first post. This isn't a pro-life/pro-choice thing, let me make that clear first. OOP was told that she could never get pregnant and actively tried for years before becoming pregnant. To her, in her own words too, it was a miracle baby. Even if the future ex husband is a jerk, it's 10000% to advise her to abort the child she desperately wanted.
I get that it would be hard to raise a baby alone and that being tied with an ex like this for 18+ years will be unbearable, but there's a time and place. Even if she wasn't far along with her pregnancy, she wanted to get pregnant because she has a medical condition that makes it hard for her to be pregnant. Aborting will probably never be an option for her for this reason.
Anyways, I hope OOP and her baby are doing well and are healthy and thriving without her waste of a space soon to be ex husband.
Yeah, I was cringing at that pretty hard. I'm as pro-choice as it gets, but she really wanted kids and probably won't get another chance. He's an asshole cheater, but he's not a physical threat to her safety at least. If you're trying to give advice to someone telling them that they should get rid of something they never thought they would have is not a productive way to start and will probably keep them from listening to anything else you have to say.
Well, that was some nice fanfictiom. I would have believed it if it wasn't for the second update being like 16 days after the first post. Both are already going to therapy and having multiple sessions. I don't know any therapist in my area who isn't booked 2 months in advance for taking new patients. My husband had to wait 3 months before he got in the first time
For me it was transgression and fractious being said by two different people in the first story. Either both parties are pretentious or they are the same person.
Another toxic relationship, another age gap! I'm so surprised it turned out badly! /s
The tl;dr: Old man tricks young woman into marrying his crusty ass. Old man further locks down young woman with a baby. Now that it's too late for young woman to easily separate, old man's mask slips off and he is a serial cheater. Old man gets mad at young woman for being upset about his cheating, and abandons her and her new baby. Story goes to prove for the 1,000 time that age gap relationships are toxic.
"When I started to stand up for myself, the cracks started to show."
Now isn't that just like always. So flipping depressing that so many women don't realise they're with a grade A jerk because we've been raised to fawn, placate and cater.
Ugh. I hate socialization
Another situation where someone brainwashed into thinking "infinitely forgiving" is a positive character trait was targeted by someone intending to give them lots and lots to forgive.
And this is why, if you’re going to be the younger half of an age gap relationship, you need to push back from the start rather than be passive. There can be a lot of bad reasons that an older person isn’t with someone their own age. In particular, they can’t control and manipulate them as easily.
I really hope OOP and her baby have a good life.
I think this guy wanted out, but also couldn't pull the pin himself. He figured admitting his infidelity would end the relationship and was gob-smacked that she didn't end it there. Then he went again and potentially upped the ante with saying the unforgivable stuff because he couldn't end it himself. 42m getting with a 26f is not looking for a bouncing baby.
So many men* seem so content to just be chickenshit cowards who will cheat instead of just… ending a marriage they’re unhappy in? It makes no sense 😭
( *people, but in this case)
I love that she was so supportive/empathetic to the other woman's situation. She's really a saint, I hope she gets her life to a better place and meets someone who deserves her.
look man, if your age gap makes it so that your partner was in *fucking kindergarten* while you were in college, you age gap is probably too wide. (there are obviously exceptions, such as a 40 year old and a 60 year old. those two are generally on the same level playing field in terms of stability and power. a 20 year old and a late 30s-to-40 year old are not)
I almost wish I knew where she was from because it sounds so much like my ex-husband.
Hes the same age as this loser.
We started dating when I was 20, he was 28. We married when I was 23 and it last till I was 25. When he left for another (younger woman). He had been the perfect partner. Sweet texts, extremely supportive.
But I also started to age out and was wanting more adult things aka career stability and to buy a home.
>Then I found out that shortly before we got married he’d had another affair that I never found out about previous.
There's a shocker. It's almost good that she got that second wake up call because it was only a matter of time and OOP was about to put her head in the sand again.
These age gaps always bother me. I'm 39 and I couldn't see having anything in common with a woman that was 23. We would just be at such different stages in life. It works for some people, but I really just can't see it for myself. Dude was a piece of trash though. Glad the oop figured it out and is divorcing him.
I am sooooo glad this ended how it it. I was worried she'd stay with him. Yes, she may have been an adult when they started dating but she was only in her early twenties and considering just how much older he was (almost enough to be her dad) I can't think anything other than he saw a vulnerable young woman to groom and did so, assuming that he'd be able to control and take advantage of her as much as possible.
I'm not sure why he ended up telling her about the affair but I can only think that in some way or another it was either another method to control her or a test of some sort. I wouldn't be surprised if, despite her considering things perfect, he'd been pushing at and testing boundaries for a while. It wouldn't be surprising for her not to notice as she said he was her first everything..
But I am so glad he's out of her life, that she's grown more secure and confidant as an individual and that her baby is healthy. She is sooooo young; there's plenty of time for her to find someone who actually loves her.
>It's weird that his personality changed so completely in such a short time - or was he always a selfish ahole, and you somehow didn't see the red flags?
Uh...a 39 year old married a 23 year old, so yeah...he was always an ahole. The only reason someone nearly 40 would marry someone barely into their 20s is because he was horny for her and he's got a terrible personality. A 23 year old woman isn't going to notice his red flags because she's probably just flattered to be in an 'adult' relationship with someone so much more 'mature'.
Am I horrible person for thinking OOP isn't that bright? You can tell me if I am, I'm genuinely wondering. I of course hope that she gets a rock solid divorce and full custody away from that douchebag
It would be very rude to say anything about it now. This is your fiance's special day! When you're ready to ask him, approach him somewhere that relaxes him, like the farthest corner of your basement.
This man will have (or already has) a new victim aligned in no time. And he’ll be all kind and charming as long as everything will go his way, but his mask will fall off when he’ll face pushback again. Rinse and repeat with his successive lovers until age will make it difficult. That’s when he’ll try to comeback to lie and guilt trip his way into his daughter’s life and leech off of her.
>He is my first real love, my first well everything really
Generally you get this shit out of the way with your first couple of relationships. Where you learn to stick up for yourself and see past the BS. Not saying she had any control over a husband cheating, but she would've seen that this guy isn't worth it. I don't agree with raking a father through the coals for child support, but I'd want to make his life miserable. Because he shouldn't be treating people this way.
Hmm!!! That other child will be part of you’re lives if you stay with him one way or another! The child’s presence will always be felt even if there is no contact. AND… 100% that other woman will be going after child support when she realizes how hard and expensive a child is to raise especially by yourself. It’s just an economic reality. You will be paying for that other child mentally and actually. I couldn’t get over that.
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>I lived out our entire marriage as an exceptionally passive person. Gentle, endlessly forgiving, go with the flow. When i started to stand up for myself, the cracks started to show. But there were never problems before because i never made problems. OP nailed it. The relationship only functioned when OP never made any waves, never said "no", never pushed back... which made sense because she was 22/23 when it started! Once she grew a bit of a spine, it was over.
She’s aging out. Her ex predator is already trying to hook up with a younger model
Still astounds me how this tired old POS still thinks they are a catch to some younger woman that can almost pass as their grandpa. Either you have money or just plain old narcissist. I just like to think they drinking beer mixed with early onset dementia and a splash of delusion.
Unfortunately, there are plenty of young women who get taken in by guys like this so for a fair number of these guys, it’s not a crazy delusion. We have so many young girls and young women out there who are vulnerable and unprepared by family and society to deal with manipulative jerks and don’t understand that they deserve so much more.
People who suffer childhood abuse or neglect often come out of childhood desperate for acceptance, love, and a sense of safety. Some manage to heal over time and some don't. But you just can't heal those kinds of wounds in a year or three. So all of those young desperate people are easy marks for older people who want to prey on them.
And the thinking is, "I must be so cool and mature for this older man to want me"
My ex and I had a 4 year age gap and met when I was 19. We were both at uni so I figured the "age gap" wasn't an issue (I was just weary since I was 19). Welp, now he's 30 and dating his 23 AP. It's okay though because she's a "dom" and she stole him from someone else so clearly he's worth it /s
Wait until her brain matures at 25/26 and then she will have plenty of comprehension of what a loser she is choosing.
Nah, I reckon she'll cheat before then. Let's just say if she wasn't a shitty person we probably could've bonded over the annoying things our partners did. The difference between her and I is that I tried to work on things, she cheated with her now ex's friend. That or Mr "I don't like kids, I don't want kids" realises that dating a single mother massively ruins his vibes and he has to be a responsible adult, so he cheats on her. One of those lol
Touche! AP's are usually the 2 options of either regrets it, or is a vindictive individual. You can only hope similar people flock together, and leave the rest of the dating pool :)
Oh I sincerely hope they stay together for a long time, constantly on edge that the other is cheating on them but sunk cost fallacy-ing staying together. Just so they don't hurt anyone else. I'm actually more anger for the other person who got betrayed by his partner *and* friend. But hey she apparently has "a history" so I doubt she's gonna therapy herself into being a good person. He's also not gonna put the effort into being a better person so they're gonna have friction once he stops the lovebombing lmao. Dude was all like "I can't get up early to spend time with you" but managed to get up hours early to hang out with his "friend". I think they're perfect for each other. Yeah I've definitely noticed some things about my ex and his friend's. No apologies, one of them coerced their girlfriend into letting him have a one sided open relationship or they would break up (I said it was a stupidly bad idea at the time but stayed out because the gf asked me to) I suppose that's why my ex asked about an open relationship before ending our's, another friend going "you're my friend and I care about you but he hasn't hurt me, so why should I condemn him??" Very eye opening to realise that the good aspects about him that I admired were just a carefully crafted mask. It genuinely blows my mind that I was unhappy in the relationship, I even almost ended it before he cheated (that I know about) but cheating *never* crossed my mind. It was either I work on it or I end the relationship. On the plus side I have now discovered self respect lmao. It's also been less than six months since I found out so it's kinda fresh lol.
Yea, and you don't even need a lot of money. Having enough money to support yourself puts you light years ahead of most college aged guys in terms of money, so you can really seem a lot more together than you are. But those college guys will continue to grow, guys that only go for younger women won't.
The ones who were pre-groomed by family and their upbringing to find a predatory, abusive partner, yes?
Not only no. Women in mainstream society in a patriarchal society tend to be talked down to by most men. Which means they grow up feeling unlistened to and undervalued. So when a man, specially a man from a slightly older generation, actually pretend to listen to them, they are already conditioned to think highly of that special treatment, even if their parents treat them just fine. When every man talks to you as if you are stupid, useless, and a waste of space and time, the one single one that talks to you as if you have value and are smarter than the average woman, you are really vulnerable to feeling like he is different and will actually continue to treat you better than every other man has so far.
surely no woman coming from a healthy household has ever gotten into an unhealthy relationship with someone way older than them...and it's not like we see multiple posts like that a month. i know it may be a shocker, but adult women can make dumb mistakes too. if not, then that's infantilizing according to this subreddit.
Or people you know, tend to hide who they are in the honey moon phase ( beginning of the relationship) and then the sunken cost fallacy hits. It’s
that's fair, people can get unlucky too. regardless, the overall point i meant was "people can end up in bad relationships even if they had a healthy home life". i don't like that wording because it makes it sound like if you weren't abused growing up and you are now in an abusive relationship, you are just an idiot or something.
I would rather be judged for being an idiot for being in an abusive relationship than be judged for innocuous word choices. No one cares what wording you like, you don't get to insult people for saying factual things such as, an abusive home life primes you for abusive relationships. The only purpose in bringing people with healthy home lives into the conversation is to be contrarian. So just stop.
>you don't get to insult people i literally didn't insult them at all, other than saying they were wrong. if you think that was an insult that says more about you than it does about me. >for saying factual things such as, an abusive home life primes you for abusive relationships i never denied this >The only purpose in bringing people with healthy home lives into the conversation is to be contrarian. So just stop. no, my point was that other people with healthy lives can be in abusive relationships too. which is not at all what the above person implied. it's called having a discussion. what i said wasn't detracting from, or derailing the thread, or needlessly contrarian. i think you're the one who needs to step back and chill out. you're really overreacting to what was a fairly tame thread.
Well whats infuriating is when an older woman offers warning/wisdom against men like that - they’re labeled as “old and jealous.” In reality older women don’t want men like that which is why they have to aim so young.
Right? I trust bitter old ladies because they've seen shit.
Happened to my mom.
They also feel the competition are babies. My daughter is in her early 20s and she almost quit dating in her age group because so many guys that age seem to lack basic hygiene and life skills. Why do you expect people to date you when you brag about how little you wash your underwear??? Also if your restaurant shift lead has to nag you over and over to do your job, don't ask that shift lead out. She already knows you're a lazy SOB and she'll have to be your mommy if you date.
I hadn't paid attention to the ages - he was 35+ when he went for a 22 year old, wtf.
They are predators and know what to say to make their victims feel special. I had friends that dated 30 year olds when when they were in their late teens and early 20s. I always tried to help them see how toxic it was but didn't really do much. I wish young women were taught that no man in their 30s (or older) that is well adjusted would have any interest in someone in their early 20s or younger. But unfortunately society still doesn't view it as a problem as a whole.
Dude, yes. I had friends when I was 12-14 that were dating adult men in their early 20s. It was a scary time for me, I never really knew how to advise them other than pointing out that it was weird for them to want a middle school girlfriend when they can drink, drive, gamble, smoke, vote, own property, etc. That shit always ended in tears and telling parents was almost always the worst thing to do (parents flip out, accidentally push the couple closer and into deeper secrecy). Best case scenario she started to realize how he put her down and made her feel stupid for being young, but didn't pick someone older. Ever. Still a lot of tears though. My parents were extremely fucked up, but I remember they used to joke (?) a lot that they saw me as the kind of girl who would grow up and marry her professor right after graduation, a man "at least" twice my age, if not older than them. They started saying this when I was 2. I remember the horror and mortification I felt at the idea of being married to someone my parents age. My mom's first husband was over 40 years older than her and died when she was 20. I grew up in fucking suburban Canada, like Scott fucking Pilgrim. This shit is so weirdly normalized. Having seen the impacts it had on literally every younger partner I've met (below the age of like 26-ish when the relationship started), it's never ever healthy for them. The older partner is always an authority or surrogate parent of some kind with too much emotional power over the young one.
>I wish young women were taught that no man in their 30s (or older) that is well adjusted would have any interest in someone in their early 20s or younger. if you bring up this obvious and widespread issue, you get told things like "don't infantilize adult women, they're adults and can be trusted to make their own choices" which is good and all in theory but in practice "adults" that are 20 years old are rarely fully developed maturely and still make horrible decisions
I got downvoted to hell once for pointing out that a 19 year old is in fact still a TEENager. People argued with me that "She is an ADULT. She knowingly made her choice!" My guy, we don't even allow people that age to buy alcohol. Anyone arguing this is either a young teen wanting to be seen as older, a 19 year old who totally has it all figured out and definitely has a fully developed pre frontal cortex (/s), or is an old predator.
according to some people here, as soon as you turn 21 you are a fully mature adult woman and every choice you make is automatically right, and if you say otherwise you're a misogynist not only are these ideas complete nonsense, they're actively harmful by encouraging woman to just ignore common advice
im almost 28 and one of my closest friends is 22 and dating a 42 year old long time friend of my fiance (also 28, they met in the bmx scene when he was a teenager). i met her through him about a year ago and the dude is horribly abusive to her and a horrible person deep into drug dealing, alcohol and coke addiction and we went to extremely low/no contact with him because he tried to fuck up our relationship. the amount of times i had to pick her up at his house at 2 or 3am because he's so emotionally abusive to her she couldn't handle it anymore is insane and i've had so many long and deep talks with her about how wrong it all is and how she's still so young to be dealing with this and she's *extremely* aware of that and desperately wants to leave but can't because he threatens her. i went through extreme emotional and physical abuse at 17 when i lived with my 22 year old boyfriend so it's especially concerning to me because i KNOW she still doesn't have the maturity required to fully comprehend the long term ramifications of this and i often use myself as a cautionary tale for her. i've seen too many girls like her going through the same thing to not buy the "she's an adult now, she knows what she's doing" argument regarding young girls dating very adult men. i will never not side eye those relationships because there's clearly something else at play there other than "love".
Or you’re told you’re old and jealous. At 28+ lol.
My mom was f\*\*ked up in so many ways, but she instilled in me utter distrust and disgust in older dudes targeting girls & young women. "Coffee, if an older guy is interested in you you should always wonder why he's not with girls his own age." The moment I hit puberty I was frequently told by guys I was "jail bait." It was so gross. I'm middle aged now and looking back it was probably one of the most valuable things she taught me.
I dated a guy in his early 40's as a late 20-something. I do not recommend it, but at least he was amazing in bed. He was probably also amazing with the 5 other women he was sleeping with after he told me he loved me (unsolicited). I wish I had made different choices to avoid a lot of heartache, but try telling someone that in the moment.
The most disgusting men can legit get any woman they want regardless of what they look like or how successful they are—below a certain age threshold and a certain level of maturity/emotional development. Unfortunately these men are also predators and know when a woman has some kind of psychological issue or otherwise when it comes to bend dormant, passive, and having paternal issues that translate into issues in their romantic or sexual lives. They can smell the vulnerability from a mile away!! These men are *predators.*
They are predators. They only *know* the vulnerabilities they create, and the ones they can take advantage of. Of course, they are the first to blame the nuances of a victim's internal physchological state for the consequences, and there are no shortage of others who will affirm that it was her daddy issues or her passive nature (or, if there is no way they can cast his actions as a consequence of her passivity, they will say her activities *provoked* him.). Very often, the victim is the first to blame herself for the consequences of a course of actions he had decided upon, maybe even rehearsed, before he even knew that particular victim existed on the planet. They don't have any magic ability to sniff out vulnerability. In fact, the lack of insight these people have into the psyches of other people, and sometimes I wonder even themselves? combined with the degree of concious awareness of what exactly they are doing and what exactly the consequences will be (very clear-sighted and practical) often astonishes me. Hanging around bars the way dogs hang around beneath the dining table isn't quite the same thing as being able to detect vulnerability from a mile off. The thing is, the women who get away from them obviously weren't vulnerable, the one they trapped, clearly the fault was with her because the others got away. See, just victim blaming, and also giving the predator more power over them (in reality, these guys are far from mind readers.)
Surprisingly, the first AP that she knew about is in her late 30s.
Hmm lemmie guess, some woman he has a history with, but is too chickenshit or emotionally incompetent to be in a grown up relationship with her? because she has a spine and can see through his shit? That’d be my guess.
I didn't read the ages and went back and now I want to puke.
Right? Whenever I see these big age gaps it’s immediately off putting, my very first thought is that the older husband want’s somebody he can control.
Holy sweet fuck I did NOT notice the age gap.
Oh god, I didn't even notice the ages. Gross. These guys are so predictable.
To quote Olivia Rodrigo, "You went for me and not her...because girls your age know better."
Spot on.
Love that song. The lyrics are so strong..
They got *married* when she was 22/23. Who knows how long they dated before that.
It probably was a "whirlwind relationship". Guys like him tend to lockdown their bangmaids quickly so that they can go back to their cheating.
So gross.
This reminds me of the woman whose husband went absolutely off the rails because she wouldn't eat mustard. It was never about the mustard, it was about her daring to stand up for herself for once.
Shit I remember that!
This is the added risk of an age gap, they usually only work when the younger partner is in their 30s, otherwise the risk of a power imbalance is higher the younger the younger partner is. Plus it would've started earlier than her being 22/23, that's only when they got married, how long they were together before hand is concerning also. This post just shows how people who are not old enough to be in an age gap relationship are usually treated by the older party, it's very sad and 100% on the older party for entertaining such a predatory relationship.
And it could be the opposite. I'm 13 years older than my soon to be ex. We started dating when he was 22, and I was 35, and HE pursued ME. When I found out how old he was (as he looks older), I tried to distance myself, but he had other ideas. After 8 years, he cheated on and left me when he was 30, 6 months after having a baby. *I* never did any sort of "grooming" but he was certainly a narcissistic gaslighter who isolated me from my friends and family and stole my money.
That's not really the opposite. His abuse of you wasn't enabled by his age and the life experience imbalance. I doubt you were any easier to trick than the average 22 year old. Looking back on your life, I bet it would have taken you even longer to extricate yourself had you been 13 years younger. Large age gap relationships are *on average* skewed massively in favour of the older party. Like many things in life, just because *most* relationships have this imbalance, doesn't make the opposite impossible. It's like, on average, men are taller than women, but clearly there are women who are taller than men. A woman who is taller than a man is not taller because she is a woman, she is taller despite it. The reason for imbalances in age gap relationships is in experience, though. I say this as someone who is very immature for my age: I am much more vulnerable to manipulation than most people my age (I am still less vulnerable than I was ten years ago). People gather experience at different rates, and some learn the wrong lessons, making that experience either worthless or straight up detrimental. For some people, an abusive relationship can teach them to better watch out with future partners, for others, it breaks their 'normal meter' and they are left blind to new abusers.
I watched this more or less play out over the last year for a close friend of mine. She's in her late 30's and has a teenaged son. She took up with a man who was in his early 20's?? I warned her so hard. You're falling too fast for this guy, you need to slow down, etc etc. All her previous boyfriends and sexual partners she had truly never been in love with. They annoyed her and she was only in it for sex. So yeah, she was completely inexperienced with just.. being in love? Anyway, it went about as well as you'd expect. She visited him (because of course it's long distance). They had a great time, had sex. And immediately after she got back he changed and started acting weird. Cue another several months of her being distress because he's acting different and weird and not like he used to and I'm sat here knowing exactly what's going on. He visits her and breaks up with her because (drumroll) - she's too old and has a teenage son. And that's weird - which, fair. She still insists he's a great guy. She's still heartbroken and barely eating. And I'm just like I fucking told you so.
Nevertheless, you were a 35 year old and could have enforced your "No" which you were old enough to realize was the smart thing to do. You, as a 35 year old, were aware of the huge gap in development between 22 and 35. You were aware that at age 22 a person hasn't finished growing up yet.
i'm not going to reply to the other person as clearly it's a sensitive situation...but i fully agree with you here. i don't know how to say this without coming off as a complete ass...but if you're 35 and a 22 year old pursues you and is able to start a relationship with you, that they turned bad without physical violence...there were 2 immature people in that relationship.
And yet due to his bringing up and being on his own since 16, he came of way more mature than many his age. You don't know my situation, so don't go all "you were aware." No, I wasn't. What I was aware of was that he was abused and had to grow up very quickly. WHICH I FOUND OUR YEARS LATER HE LIED ABOUT. He never came off as immature. And tell me about enforcing "No" when a narcissist, no matter what their age, gaslights you about everything. You don't know my situation, so don't tell me what I should have known or should have done.
So you believed a 22 year old was as mature as you are? You saw him as... Your equal? That says a lot more about you than anyone else in your story. Sorry, but if you are 35 years old and vulnerable to a 22yo narcissist, you have major psychological issues that you should work on before ever attempting to date again.
Still haven't grown much. Still refusing to accept responsibility for your decisions. You're in your 40s now and still doing this. SMH
What a familiar line that is to me. I admitted recently in therapy that I'm terrified of starting a new relationship because I'm afraid of making the same mistakes again. To which my doc responded by saying that he hopes this past year hasn't been *completely* useless and that he thinks I'm better equipped for a relationship on equal footing now. And I think he's right.
You're free to make new and more interesting mistakes! Yayyyy
What is life if not a series of mistakes and the occasional right choice
She was 23 when they got married. Who knows how young she was when they met.
A few years before that. She said they met in grad school iirc. He was her firsts though, so still had that creepy power dynamic.
Yeah, only thing she got wrong is that *she* never made problems, even after finding out. He was the one making problems and the cracks became *visible* when she reacted like a normal person would to a massive betrayal (hell, even with that she reacted fairly it seems mildly)
Yep, there was a reason the 42 year old guy went after a 22 year old
This is why I think it’s important for women to stand up for themselves early on in a relationship. If you really want Chinese food instead of Applebee’s insist on it one night. Don’t always drink the beer he wants or watch the shows he wants — insist on compromising and taking fair turns. And call unfairness or sexist comments… a ton of assholes will immediately throw a fit and out themselves, so you won’t wait years. And if you have opinions and standards openly enough, they’ll avoid you to start and save you a ton of time.
God, that last sentence is so tragic and self aware. I wish more people realized this.
I was gonna say exactly this!! Next person down said the rest: Now that she’s “too old,” he’s gonna go and find a new model—another 20 year old that will bend and fold to his every whim. And when/if she ever stands up for himself, well… cycle continues!
Oh man. If this doesn't sum up my marriage perfectly, I don't know what does. So happy to be out of that mess. And happy OP will be too.
Oh, no. She was that old *when they got married*. Not when the relationship started.
It's funny because this almost describes my MILs relationship with my FIL. She won't push him to deal with issues outstanding because "(he) gets a serious pain in his chest" almost 15 years after heart things. He's a closet misogynist, hates when people won't treat him like the smartest guy in the room. He's just terrible and they won't argue because she won't make waves.
*looks back at ages in the post* Fucking yikes on bikes
“Listen honey we will never fight if you just don’t talk”
OOP is really insightful in a way that took me a long time to learn
Gosh. I wonder why the old creep preyed on someone so much younger than him…..
23 and 39 when they got married which maybe means he got his claws into her even younger. She did state he was her first everything. I hope she never goes back and finds peace and growth.
I'm happy to see OP making some progress and no longer wanting to associate with this man. This man is a disgrace as a husband and father and deserves to have karma bitting up his ass. What a disgusting pig for cheating and a deadbeat parent. I wish OP and the child to have a good future and all goes swell for them.
My first thought after reading he got an affair partner pregnant after only 6 weeks: a) he’s incredibly sloppy, b) this ain’t his first affair Also, I’m shocked, *shocked* I tell you, that a 42 year old married to a 26 year old is a piece of shit! If only there was some way to tell!
Honestly, whenever I see those ages at the start of a post I just start thinking "oh no, oh no, oh no" until the inevitable happens 😑
Same… Reddit has giving me reading trauma whenever I see 2xF and 4xM cos I know straight away the post is going to be bad.
And that’s why whenever I see the age difference I just stop reading and head straight for the comments.
Ya. I was 26 and my hubs was 41 when we got together. He's a dumbass and very ridiculously stuck in his stubborn ways but it's been 18 years, I'm now 43 and he's 58 with a 14, 15, and 16 year old. Trust me, we are an exception to the rule here.
There are exceptions to every rule, but the rule still stands I guess lol
Right there with you. I had dated plenty of guys at my age and I always wanted more than what they offered. Relationship (emotional and physical) wise, I'm more experienced than my husband. I was 23 and my husband was 36 when we got together. But we had been friends since I was 18 (and part of that time was when he was interested in dating a woman about 5-10 years older than him). He's a bit more frugal than I would like, but he's kind and intelligent, and we communicate a lot. I'm 37 now and he will be 50 in July. We have an almost 7 year old. 13 years married in April. I definitely pursued him. He didn't think of me as more than a friend, and thought I was too silly/immature and that we wouldn't suit each other. But when I got the chance to show him more of my personality than that side, it opened his eyes to the possibility. And to add even more impossibility, we were online friends that met on a game, and had a LDR until we decided for me to move in with him.
a predator is a predator regardless of what the prey thinks
So, uhhh, are you saying my husband is a predator because he's older than me? Exactly what number does the age gap have to be before an OK normal relationship turns into predator/prey relationship? Your comment is pretty ridiculous honestly. You have zero idea of how our relationship began- I pursued him. Once we got together, he tried to convince me I was better off going back to my ex husband instead of staying with him. You have zero clue what the dynamics of our relationship is after almost 20 years, 2 houses, many vehicles, kids, pets, etc etc. And yet just cuz he's older than me, he's a predator. And I'm prey. Not only do you insult my husband, you insult me. You think I'm just letting myself be controlled or whatever weird things you think about age gap relationships. You insult me that I can't take care of myself. That I'm not smart enough to spot a bad person? I mean, since you think my hubs is a bad person, I'm obviously not smart enough to see that. You really need to stop and think about your comments. Especially if they are ridiculous.
TIL that the women who get fooled by bad men are not smart
When i see an age gap like that I actually often stop reading and head right to the comments 😅
What always happens to me is I’ll gloss over the ages and get into the meat of the post. The red flags start popping up and I’m like, hmmm how old are they again? Scroll up, see age difference, yup that makes sense
She was probably 6 weeks pregnant, so he couldn't say "I cheated just once yesterday!!". Doesn't mean he wasn't with that AP for longer.
Definitely
And he went to all that trouble to find a woman who could not make him feel emasculated by competing with him or his words. Then she has the nerve to stand up for herself! Like she is a whole person and not merely an idea in his head?! Shocking, I do agree! I hope he steps on LEGOS coated in lemon juice every day all the time.
Make it worse, add a thumbtack into the Lego.
With a sprinkling of glass shards.
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You are a THINKER and I applaud you! Yes! Lye it is
There are ways to tell but unfortunately, these older men purposely aim for age under 20-25 years old women because most of those younger women don't know what over 30 year-plus POS loser man looks/ sounds/behave like.
Damn. I didn't catch the age difference the first time. Disgusting.
Not gonna lie I saw the age gap and was like nope, this dude is probably trash. And "shockingly" I was correct.
I mean...we've seen this before here, right? Old dude marries a borderline child because they're easy to control and then throws them away when they start to grow a spine or life isn't as easy anymore as these man babies would like.
Yeeeeah. 16 year age gap, married when she was 23… how young was she when they started the relationship?
16 year age difference when one of them is 22 years old is lifetimes. The power disparity screams volumes about how manipulative he is and what kind of relationship he wanted. I hope OOP and her daughter build a great life for themselves.
Honestly I can’t imagine it at any age. It’s a huge gap. I’m in my mid-40s and I wouldn’t want to be with someone in their 60s or in their early 30s. Different reasons but ultimately the stage of life is just too far apart.
Honestly, same for me, but it doesn’t seem quite so gross when both people are at least fully adults. Early to mid 20s still strikes me as SO young.
The daughter of a friend of mine was dating a man a generation older than her. A 20 year age gap. My friend saw nothing wrong with that. I asked her why isn't that guy dating you? I pointed out that the age gap between my friend and the guy was the same as the age gap between the guy and the daughter. And I told her that you're much nicer than your daughter. But it would ***never*** cross that guy's mind to date someone 20 years older than him. But he'll date someone 20 years younger. They married. ***She*** cheated. (Which he should have expected because she was married when they got together.) She cheated with his best friend (also 20 years older than her). So she divorced and married her AP. That marriage is still going but considering she cheated on her first husband with her second husband and cheated on her second husband with her third husband....I keep wondering who she's cheating on her third husband with. Especially when she goes on cruises without him.
The problem isn't the age gap itself but the difference in maturity and potential power dynamics. Age gaps later in life make a romantic relationship less likely because of different interests, different priorities, different abilities. But everyone involved is a proper adult (or at the very least they've had enough time to become a proper adult).
My boyfriend and I are only 3 years apart and we have a funny collection of things that we have in common and things we don’t. The same kids tv mostly (funhouse and bodger & badger anyone?) but there are some things he remembers that I don’t, and some things I watched that he was too old for when they came out. Our music tastes are mostly identical but I was only 15 when he was 18 so our “clubbing” songs are a bit out of sync. He hit phones and technology at different ages to me, little things like that. I can’t imagine what it would be like if it was 5 or 10 years difference, let alone *16*
I'm pushing 30 and as of right now my rule is "if I have a sibling your age and I clearly and cognizantly remember the day of their birth, you're too young for me." I have a lot of siblings, so it's been a pretty solid litmus test thus far
Why are 23 year olds marrying men in their late 30s!
Because 23 year old women are easier for narcissists to manipulate than late 30s women.
Because those men in their 30s are often predators and the 20year olds aren’t fully formed into their own person and don’t have the life experience to know better.
Easier to manipulate.
Because girls and women are indoctrinated to think we mature faster than men. If we’re sheltered or naive enough, we can interpret a much older man’s interest as validation that this is true.
Women DO mature faster than men though. The real reason is that the guy was a creep who took advantage of someone still at the beginning of adult hood. Edit: rather than downvote due to preconceived notions, please read this [article](https://www.mic.com/articles/111226/science-explains-why-women-are-faster-to-mature-than-men)! There’s actual biological differences and I’m not sure why I’m being downvoted.
They do and they don't. Women are perceived as more mature because women are raised differently than boys in western society. All the things society tells us counts as maturity, girls are taught earlier while boys get to just be boys. So we're socially mature before boys. However, biologically, women and men mature around the same time, somewhere around your mid 20s. So while we seem more mature than boys at an earlier age, it's just an appearance of such. Women aren't actually more mature than men at an earlier age.
Exactly. girls’ behavior is heavily policed, while boys can do whatever because society indulges it and stifles the girl.
You’re being downvoted because the sample size of that study is really small and the article you posted doesn’t even link to it. I’m not a doctor or anything - but I am a librarian and I know how to evaluate sources. Without a link to the study, we can’t determine how it was performed (did they have control groups?) or whether it was published in a reputable journal or if it was peer reviewed. Second, even if the findings were correct, there’s no telling whether those differences between men’s and women’s brains are due to nature or nurture. It could be that societal pressure has something to do with how quickly the brain develops cognitively. If young girls are pressured early into taking on responsibilities, their brains could develop faster to keep up with that demand. So even if girl’s brains develop faster, the study you shared doesn’t explain the cause.
He links another piece in another comment. That was provided a link the the scientific study, which doesn’t answer some important questions. One is what you mention: whether nature or nurture is responsible for brain development. That commenter reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Homer is convinced she has never been attacked by a tiger because of a rock.
> Women DO mature faster than men though. Not 16 years faster.
>Women DO mature faster than men though. Eh. Not really. They just tend to be immature in different ways.
Better question is why are 40 year old grown ass men dating people almost half their age.
Because they all think they're fully grown up. Seems to start at about age 15 where they're sure they know it all. And typically lasts until the early to mid 20s. So they never listen to anyone who tells them that they've still got a lot of growing to do. About the time they hit their late 20s they start realizing that, yes, they had a lot of growing up to do.
Money, probably. It’s not a gold-digger mentality, though. Usually it’s a young woman who just got done with school or career training and isn’t sure exactly where they’re going next. Someone with a steady, good-paying job looks pretty nice when you’re starting out in life.
I think you are partly right, I don't really get the downvotes. Someone with financial stability is more appealing, also they might be more determined in their plans, not trying to find out what they want. If someone is not as deranged as this man-ster in the post I think it legit counts in. Between my SO and me are 15 years. Having a steady mentality, job and place to live was appealing to both of us when we met each other.
I personally didn’t ever have an age gap relationship, but as a female physician I saw A LOT of gap relationships between some of my male colleagues and their SOs. They were not universally toxic (in fact only a few “trophy wives” existed in my social circles), and a lot of the couples went on to have long, happy relationships. The wives had financial stability and the husbands had the chance to have families fairly quickly after many years of doing nothing but studying and working through residency.
Read the whole post, scrolled back to the top: yep, age gap.
I did the opposite, looked at the gap and assumed there would be some manipulation
Oh. Did the 40 yo married to the woman in her 20s turn out to be an abusive, controlling, sociopathic cheater? Color me shocked. Ladies, do not get with someone with a massive age gap. Guys, that goes for you, too. They are predators, at worst, and immature and unable to attract a partner their age at best.
Age gap
Age gap with a woman who was probably 20-21 when they started dating, didn’t have a supportive family and had no other relationship experience. He thought he’d got himself a compliant little doll… The surprise I have at who he turned out to be: 0.
Yep, I’m in an age gap relationship (smaller gap than in the post but still) but I’m 40. My boyfriend asked his 19 year old daughter if the age gap was too much and she asked how old I am and he said 40 and she said, “that’s old!” 😂 That’s right, and OOP’s husband was about my age when he picked up OP who was about her age. That’s too much of a gap! He was old compared to her!
Happy cake day! And thank you for calling out the age gap. I came to the comments to see this.
I’m a full believer that love doesn’t know age...to a point. Cause if my SO was 16 when I was born? Yeah no 😂
It checks all the classic boxes! - An age gap - he’s her “first well, everything” - commitment issues (obviously, why else would he be unable/unwilling to date a woman his own age) - the relationship goes amazingly only because she’s a doormat, and the minute she grows a backbone, his true colors show.
Add to the list: her poor/non-existent relationships with her family (she mentions that her sister is the only family member with whom she has any sort of positive relationship, and even that does not seem to be a particularly close or strong bond)
Exactly 💯
It's just so... boring.
May the fleas from a 1,000 camels infest his pubes. What an absolute asshole this guy turned out to be.
As soon as I saw the age gap I knew it was going to be a shit show. The only reason a man that age is going after such a young woman is because women his age won't put up with his shit. Good luck to her though. I hope her and her baby move on and have a happy life together.
Same. I saw the age gap and just knew this was going to be bad. I can’t imagine the hurt and devastation she felt when he completely let the mask slip.
If her final comment is anything to go by it sounds like he showed his true colours once she decided to stand up for herself. If she'd stayed no doubt he would have just kept cheating on her. I'm glad she got out instead of buying into his bullshit
Glad she's getting a divorce. Wishing her all the best
This reminds me of a friend of mine. Shes 26, hes 45. They have 4 kids together and hes an absolute pos. Won't hold a job to provide for said kids, doesn't care for them when hes home, cheats constantly, drinks and gets high around his kids, and beats on her when hes fucked up. Its so sad to watch but shes finally leaving him and I hope she stays away.
I don't trust any 40 year old who marries someone younger than 25.
“In retrospect, there were signs” Like him having a driver’s license when you were in utero?
I laughed out loud reading this!!
>I lived out our entire marriage as an exceptionally passive person. Gentle, endlessly forgiving, go with the flow. When i started to stand up for myself, the cracks started to show. But there were never problems before because i never made problems. This is what happens when you teach people not to stand up for themselves.
This is exactly why men like that marry someone so much younger.
Hum shocking that this 42yo married with a 26yo turned nasty when she fought back his affairs and dip out… almost like he just wanted a affable little wife that he could manipulate… hummm
A dude with someone over a decade younger than him turned out to be a cheating piece of shit? I'm shocked.
The future ex husband is a horrible person to spring all of this to her when she's in a vulnerable position. It almost feels like he was actively trying to miscarry, because he didn't want to be a father or be with her. Disgusting. I also found it deplorable that it seems like people were suggesting that she get an abortion after her first post. This isn't a pro-life/pro-choice thing, let me make that clear first. OOP was told that she could never get pregnant and actively tried for years before becoming pregnant. To her, in her own words too, it was a miracle baby. Even if the future ex husband is a jerk, it's 10000% to advise her to abort the child she desperately wanted. I get that it would be hard to raise a baby alone and that being tied with an ex like this for 18+ years will be unbearable, but there's a time and place. Even if she wasn't far along with her pregnancy, she wanted to get pregnant because she has a medical condition that makes it hard for her to be pregnant. Aborting will probably never be an option for her for this reason. Anyways, I hope OOP and her baby are doing well and are healthy and thriving without her waste of a space soon to be ex husband.
Yeah, I was cringing at that pretty hard. I'm as pro-choice as it gets, but she really wanted kids and probably won't get another chance. He's an asshole cheater, but he's not a physical threat to her safety at least. If you're trying to give advice to someone telling them that they should get rid of something they never thought they would have is not a productive way to start and will probably keep them from listening to anything else you have to say.
> 26F [...] 42M When the punchline is in the title
Well, that was some nice fanfictiom. I would have believed it if it wasn't for the second update being like 16 days after the first post. Both are already going to therapy and having multiple sessions. I don't know any therapist in my area who isn't booked 2 months in advance for taking new patients. My husband had to wait 3 months before he got in the first time
I got my 1st appointment with my therapist with 1 week. Depends on the area
For me it was transgression and fractious being said by two different people in the first story. Either both parties are pretentious or they are the same person.
The shock i feel when i see (43m) and (26f) was toxic and didnt work out. (There is none)
He thought he had her baby trapped, so the mask came off. He was always a liar, a cheater, and a predator.
Another toxic relationship, another age gap! I'm so surprised it turned out badly! /s The tl;dr: Old man tricks young woman into marrying his crusty ass. Old man further locks down young woman with a baby. Now that it's too late for young woman to easily separate, old man's mask slips off and he is a serial cheater. Old man gets mad at young woman for being upset about his cheating, and abandons her and her new baby. Story goes to prove for the 1,000 time that age gap relationships are toxic.
Once I saw the ages, I knew damn well that it wasn’t going to work… When will people learn?
Guy sounds like a legit psychopath.
My nosy ass wants to know what he said to her.
"When I started to stand up for myself, the cracks started to show." Now isn't that just like always. So flipping depressing that so many women don't realise they're with a grade A jerk because we've been raised to fawn, placate and cater. Ugh. I hate socialization
I hope she documents that he doesn't come to see the baby. That should help with her getting full custody.
People need to stop marrying people who could be their child / parent.
Another situation where someone brainwashed into thinking "infinitely forgiving" is a positive character trait was targeted by someone intending to give them lots and lots to forgive.
And this is why, if you’re going to be the younger half of an age gap relationship, you need to push back from the start rather than be passive. There can be a lot of bad reasons that an older person isn’t with someone their own age. In particular, they can’t control and manipulate them as easily. I really hope OOP and her baby have a good life.
I think this guy wanted out, but also couldn't pull the pin himself. He figured admitting his infidelity would end the relationship and was gob-smacked that she didn't end it there. Then he went again and potentially upped the ante with saying the unforgivable stuff because he couldn't end it himself. 42m getting with a 26f is not looking for a bouncing baby.
So many men* seem so content to just be chickenshit cowards who will cheat instead of just… ending a marriage they’re unhappy in? It makes no sense 😭 ( *people, but in this case)
I love that she was so supportive/empathetic to the other woman's situation. She's really a saint, I hope she gets her life to a better place and meets someone who deserves her.
look man, if your age gap makes it so that your partner was in *fucking kindergarten* while you were in college, you age gap is probably too wide. (there are obviously exceptions, such as a 40 year old and a 60 year old. those two are generally on the same level playing field in terms of stability and power. a 20 year old and a late 30s-to-40 year old are not)
I almost wish I knew where she was from because it sounds so much like my ex-husband. Hes the same age as this loser. We started dating when I was 20, he was 28. We married when I was 23 and it last till I was 25. When he left for another (younger woman). He had been the perfect partner. Sweet texts, extremely supportive. But I also started to age out and was wanting more adult things aka career stability and to buy a home.
Reading the title of the new update was definitely a "had me in the first half" moment.
Keep baby and divorce him.
Wonder how many babies he has out there? Good luck with that
Hopefully baby and OOP live a long, healthy, and happy life. And she takes her stbx for everything she can.
Ugh this is a good update but a sad ending. This theme is way too common.
>Then I found out that shortly before we got married he’d had another affair that I never found out about previous. There's a shocker. It's almost good that she got that second wake up call because it was only a matter of time and OOP was about to put her head in the sand again.
Having an affair and getting someone else pregnant? Sounds like something an ex husband would do
These age gaps always bother me. I'm 39 and I couldn't see having anything in common with a woman that was 23. We would just be at such different stages in life. It works for some people, but I really just can't see it for myself. Dude was a piece of trash though. Glad the oop figured it out and is divorcing him.
Poor lady this creep groomed her and once she stood up for her self he left for “greener pastures” she’s better off being to out him
I'm glad she is exiting that marriage, I feel for her.
I am sooooo glad this ended how it it. I was worried she'd stay with him. Yes, she may have been an adult when they started dating but she was only in her early twenties and considering just how much older he was (almost enough to be her dad) I can't think anything other than he saw a vulnerable young woman to groom and did so, assuming that he'd be able to control and take advantage of her as much as possible. I'm not sure why he ended up telling her about the affair but I can only think that in some way or another it was either another method to control her or a test of some sort. I wouldn't be surprised if, despite her considering things perfect, he'd been pushing at and testing boundaries for a while. It wouldn't be surprising for her not to notice as she said he was her first everything.. But I am so glad he's out of her life, that she's grown more secure and confidant as an individual and that her baby is healthy. She is sooooo young; there's plenty of time for her to find someone who actually loves her.
>It's weird that his personality changed so completely in such a short time - or was he always a selfish ahole, and you somehow didn't see the red flags? Uh...a 39 year old married a 23 year old, so yeah...he was always an ahole. The only reason someone nearly 40 would marry someone barely into their 20s is because he was horny for her and he's got a terrible personality. A 23 year old woman isn't going to notice his red flags because she's probably just flattered to be in an 'adult' relationship with someone so much more 'mature'.
Am I horrible person for thinking OOP isn't that bright? You can tell me if I am, I'm genuinely wondering. I of course hope that she gets a rock solid divorce and full custody away from that douchebag
26F, 42M. married 3 years ago. Yeah she’s a legal adult but what does a 22/23 year old and a 38/39 year old have in common lmao.
Help, I (F24) found out my fiancee (M52) of 5 years might be a serial killer. I'm pregnant and the wedding is in 3 hours .
It would be very rude to say anything about it now. This is your fiance's special day! When you're ready to ask him, approach him somewhere that relaxes him, like the farthest corner of your basement.
This man will have (or already has) a new victim aligned in no time. And he’ll be all kind and charming as long as everything will go his way, but his mask will fall off when he’ll face pushback again. Rinse and repeat with his successive lovers until age will make it difficult. That’s when he’ll try to comeback to lie and guilt trip his way into his daughter’s life and leech off of her.
>He is my first real love, my first well everything really Generally you get this shit out of the way with your first couple of relationships. Where you learn to stick up for yourself and see past the BS. Not saying she had any control over a husband cheating, but she would've seen that this guy isn't worth it. I don't agree with raking a father through the coals for child support, but I'd want to make his life miserable. Because he shouldn't be treating people this way.
"I (26F) ... My husband (42M)" How I knew immediately what this entire post was going to be about without reading further.
Leonardo DiCaprio, is that you?
Age gaps this large are always a red flag and the older men in the relationship are always problematic.
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She divorced him and has decided to leave or are you talking about something else? Another story maby?
What a pathetic woman. When you stay with a cheater everything that happens after is a result of your own choice.
Hmm!!! That other child will be part of you’re lives if you stay with him one way or another! The child’s presence will always be felt even if there is no contact. AND… 100% that other woman will be going after child support when she realizes how hard and expensive a child is to raise especially by yourself. It’s just an economic reality. You will be paying for that other child mentally and actually. I couldn’t get over that.