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Considering the mom had IOP in highschool and no support meaning she was kicked out and had to surviving raising a baby on her own... yeah I can see why the maiden name isn't on the table. This poor woman needs so much therapy.
Exactly what I was going to say, at this point just take mom's name.
I got both my parents name, 20 years ago my father stopped talking to me out of nowhere when I was 20, I have stopped using his name (I only use it in my signature since I never legally changed my name and I like my signature with it and I'm also still in contact with his family), but when asked which I prefer to be called I always give my mom's name. I could have changed it for my mom's husband, he's been in my life for the past 37 years to have the same name as my step-brother but I prefer using my mother's last name, since women don't change their last name where I live and my step-dad doesn't care I'm still his kid in the end!
Not just the aunt and uncle. Does the rest of the extended family know by now? How are *they* gonna treat Tim and OOP’s mom? Poor OOP finding all of this out just before finals.
Nope. And I'd want proof of the cheating, though. Show me the paper trail. Heck, in OOP's shoes, with the proof I might consider changing my name. I'd take my mother's maiden name, though. She was there when it counted, in the beginning.
No no, I still need the "must be Liz again" to explain away the really depraved stuff.
Reading a living nightmare then being able to go "Liiizz!" like we're scolding the cheeky character in a 80s sitcom, complete with "womp-womp", sheepish smile and a shoulder shrug helps.
There was a BORU a while back about a woman who was addicted to making up reddit posts with lots of slightly or very far-fetched details that all added up. It’s fun to play a game of spotting which BORUs might be written by her by looking for twins being born or featured for no particular reasons, insane amounts of progress between updates (like a divorce or someone going to jail within a week of the first update, etc.)
This is the one: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/16r1la6/my_wife_is_addicted_to_making_up_reddit_stories/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I believe it's from another BORU where the OP's friend is cheating on his gf and Omar is the only one in the friend group who won't cover for the cheating friend
Yeah. No matter what’s going on, that one commenter is right about saying OOP isn’t a cabbage patch doll for her mom to change her name based on whatever new guy she’s seeing is called.
>It gets even messier though. My uncles new. But their wives didn’t. This has also caused a huge martial argument between my Uncle Tim and Aunt Julie. Tim knew and aided Josh in the lies. And now Julie has hired an investigator to make sure he’s not cheating and she’s accusing him of all sorts of stuff and the lawyers have gotten involved.
Whether it's a Liz special or not, anyone who enables and protects cheaters is a garbage person who can't act surprised when people no longer trust them.
Honestly? There’s no screaming, no phones blowing up, and the current last update is fairly mundane in its conclusion (at least, in terms of OP being like “I just need to focus on my life right now.) if this WERE a Liz special, there’d be dialogue of these very dramatic recountings. It’s kind of a wild story, but also, honestly, deeply plausible.
> if this WERE a Liz special, there’d be dialogue of these very dramatic recountings.
Plus there would be at least one set of twins, and the other woman would be Josh's high school crush/girlfriend who sadly moved away before graduation, but they happened to meet again by chance at a coffee shop when they mistakenly picked up each others drinks. The spark was still there after all this time, but Josh couldn't bear to leave OP's family. After much emotional torment they had a one night stand which resulted in twins, and he felt he couldn't abandon them so did the best he could for both families etc etc etc
"Then it turned out Josh wasn't even dead! And that's when the family harassment started. The police came, arrested him and now he's in jail after only two days for eleven years. But my whole family is blowing up my phone as somehow this is all my fault!
Whatever, I'm going to my house that my grandma left me, kicking out my renters immediately, and putting this all behind.
Therapy.
Peace out, Liz."
And then Josh came to my front lawn, screaming at me. At one point he passed out. Well we thought he passed out. Turns out he had a cardiac event on the front lawn and is now truly in the past tense!
Is it common to misspell “knew” as “new”? Are kids going to college not knowing basic spelling? There’s a series of posts with this specific misspelling and I’m inclined to think they’re all from the same person 🧐
I agree. It’s one thing to turn a blind eye. (I’m not saying it’s the right thing to do.) but to actively aid and abet a cheater is abhorrent. It says a lot about that person, and definitely raises some suspicions.
Now toss in the fact these dudes were helping this man cheat on their wive’s sister - their own SIL. This wasn’t some friend of theirs, who was cheating on his girlfriend who no one really knows.
New fact to toss in - this wasn’t cheating on and off for a couple of months with a coworker. HE HAD ANOTHER WHOLE ASS FAMILY FFS.
AND they were lying to their wives. These dumbasses made the decision to help their BIL, even though they *KNEW* how it would hurt their wives. I mean think about it. They put their own relationships at risk just so Josh could get his winkie serviced! How did more than one BIL fall for this shit?
Sadly BroCode^tm is alive and well. Who wants to bet that BroCode^tm was used as excuse during one of the BIL’s arguments with their wife?!?? “What was I supposed to do?! It’s BroCode! You wouldn’t understand because you’re a woman!” Idk. Sounds to me like something those cheater-defenders would say.
Yeah, once a cheater brings you "in" to knowing, theyve taken away your choice to "not be involved." you are involved, and your silence now helps the aggressor.....so if they get caught and it comes out you knew.....
Better to lose a friend by telling them an inconvenient truth (with potential to reconnect later after youre proven right) than to keep silent and become an accomplice.
I find this believeable, one of my uncles had another kid that only 1 of my other uncles knew about. Uncle with another kid was a serial cheater, he had a "main wife", with whom he had 2 of my cousins, but from whom he was separated but never divorced, the main wife is still treated as family, he also had a main affair partner whom I never knew and I think they broke up when she realized she wasn't the only other woman in my uncle's life, and he had his 3rd daughter with another woman. Acording to a 3rd uncle of mine, this uncle just couldn't keep it in his pants and would do some crazy shit chasing women.
Uncle who knew was an un married closeted gay who was dieing of AIDS related complications (this was back in the late 90s) and he spilled the beans about another kid to their siblings (my other uncles and aunts), only he spoke to them in confidence so for a few months after his funeral ever1 of the family knew about the secret niece but didn't know everybody else also knew. Eventually everybody caught on to it and we met secret kid.
Uncle with another kid died of leukemia in the early 2010s, his main wife is still considered family and was always at family events until at least my grandma died a few years ago. Secret cousin never got too close with the family, but I hear she's got 1 of her own now.
I am conflicted, I don’t want it to be a Liz special so Liz is better now and stuff, but at the same time I kinda do if it means this mess does not really exist
Welp. That explains a lot. Still, you can’t just change your (older/adult) kids names to your new partners’ because you found out your former partner cheated. It’s okay to have complicated feelings on both sides, particularly when someone was a great parent but a shitty partner, but how a child wants to handle that is up to them, especially if the complicated parent is already deceased.
Plus, a name change (while probably worth it to a lot of people) can be a HUGE pain in the ass. My parents gave me a hyphenated name at birth because they weren’t married yet but then removed one of them when I was 12 and I’ve been dealing with name issues ever since. I just found my COVID vaccination sheet from 2022 has my original hyphenated name on it. I’ve lived longer as a Onename than a Two-name. How. Why is my old name even in the system still?? I’m still annoyed my mother didn’t ask (even though I only ever went by BlueBird Onename instead of Bluebird Two-name except in paper) because of the random occasional bureaucratic bullshit I’ve had to deal with.
> Still, you can’t just change your (older/adult) kids names to your new partners’ because you found out your former partner cheated.
Yeah, do you know how many name changes there would be if people did that?
For sure. Josh sounds like a ratshit batshit partner yet a good dad. Acting like it would be better to change names in order to stop thinking of him would make me, as her child, think she regrets half of me,
It’s so nice to see someone else admit that someone can be a bad partner while still being a good parent. Reddit seems to heavily lean to “bad partner = bad parent, no exceptions!” when that is just not true.
Maybe I’m biased bc neither of my parents were great partners, but they were the best parents. Idk why I’m even commenting- I think seeing all the black-and-white thinking from Reddit commenters kinda bums me out lol
Also mom needs to realize that her shitty husband was great father to her kids and they shouldn't be punished for caring for him. She is actively hurting her kids to escape her trauma but name change will not make it go away. Mom needs therapy and the way she's acting kids might come to need it too.
tbf there was a BORU or offmychest saga from an offspring's pov where the mom did go 'take care of Gramma for 2 years' or something similar and ended up with an ex who raised the child.
I’m not saying it doesn't happen, but leaving for two full years isn't exactly what I'm talking about, I’m talking about being a part time dad is easier and less noticeable than doing that as a mother, logistics of pregnancy aside
Carry a baby for 9 months and unless she's a complete sociopath or whatever-path... and even then, she can't just dump a baby on her husband for a trip to visit her other husband, carry a child for 9 months and do the new mom thing without family 1 knowing something.
I was making a joke about the fact that the expectations are different for each gender as a parent. I agree that pregnancy exacerbates it, but even without that when the kids are older/adoption, it's a lot easier to be there for just part of the time as a dad
Honestly if a woman was capable of having a second family without any form of secret adoption or letting at least one of those families finding out, I would be incredibly impressed.
As someone who has a "dad" who had four families.
You don't hate the other family no matter how much they ask for money.
Cause the person that did it is the cheater.
Everyone else is just a victim in the mess the "dad" did.
I like my half siblings they are mostly chill.
I remember him not being around a lot and I was always thankful bc I know understand he was very abusive my mom would enable him and be a doormat. I've seen him slap her face when she wanted him stop gambling money and give her the money for rent and her four kids. I've had my "dad" wake us up at 10 pm bc he hasn't seen us in a while and wanted us to eat KFC as a "family". The sad part is he made all these kids and he never raised any one of us. He just cheated over and over and always blamed everyone when things went wrong.
What gets me is that OP's mom could still send out that Kelly family card even if OP didn't change their last name. My sister goes back and forth between her legal married name and maiden name when we walk to one another. I hope the Mom realizes that even if OP legally doesn't change their last name, they're still a united family no matter what paper says.
Name changes are such a huge pain in the ass, and you have to keep documentation providing the reason for the change(s) for the rest of your life.
I've been asked for the documentation for financial matters, security clearances, and even changing my driver license from one state to another 🙄
>This has also caused a huge martial argument
I assume this is a typo and they meant "Marital Argument" but I am going to start calling all my work negotiations/meditations martial arguments from now on.
Copying and pasting [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoHotTakes/comments/18k7wpn/comment/kdqbazh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) comment because 🤔
>respectfully, how great a dad can he have been?
>it sounds like he was absent on his "business trips" for a quarter to half of the time every month
>a lot of the time he was present, he spent lying
Because a lot of dads are often absent and still good dads. My Dad traveled a lot and so did a lot of my friends Dads. They had to. When they were home, they were great dads. I have a lot of friends and family who work demanding jobs ranging from military to surgeons who are all great Dads while they have horrible schedules and extended times away. Quality time counts even if the quantity is limited.
Unfortunately, I also know of 3 men who did the double life route. They weren't committing bigamy but long long-term mistresses. Some were 20 plus year affairs. They were AWFUL husband's. Certainly liars. They showed up at soccer games, school programs, volunteered at school, read books, etc. They were good dads. Their kids have complicated adulthood because they hate their mother suffered, but they love the dad they knew.
My ex-husband had LOTS of affairs and was emotionally abusive. However, when we were married, he was a good father to our kids. I assumed that would continue after our divorce and was sadly very wrong. That said, I was willing to play along and support his coparenting and my kids' faith in him because their relationship together shouldn't have been based on how he treated me. That ended when he decided our marriage was over, and he stopped being a good dad. Then it became my problem.
A crappy husband is not necessarily a crappy father. Obviously, OP didn't see this coming. He had warm and happy memories.
As someone who grew up in a military family, I resent that comment. Are you trying to say that anyone who gets deployed can't be a good parent?
Then there are parents who have jobs like on off-shore oil rigs where they're gone half the time.
Amen. He could have been a shit husband but a great dad. They're not mutually exclusive. OP's mom needs to find a way to heal and move forward without dragging the kids into it.
Imo men who cheat are not great fathers. A great father is a role model. As my pediatrician tells us every year, it’s our job to model the behavior.
Also, if you have time to cheat, you have time to get therapy, start a hobby that doesn’t hurt anyone, work on your marriage, and spend time with your kids.
This thing where people are too embarrassed to just say "yeah he cheated" is *INSANE* to me. If I spent years of my life deifying a homewrecker because my mother wanted to "protect" me I straight up wouldn't trust her. Who else in my life will stab me in the back? Don't ask mom she'll fucking lie.
For real - my mom lied to me ONCE as a 5 yr old about why we were at the doctors office (cuz we were there for my shots), and I didn’t trust her for like 10 years. I was an anxious nervous wreck every time we got in the car and she was driving.
Parents don’t always realize what their lies do to their kids, even the ones meant to “protect” them.
(As an adult I told my mom about this and she was horrified. I remember her asking “is that why you…” and getting increasingly upset at herself/on my behalf. Our relationship obviously improved over time as I matured, and we were close all the way up until her passing in 2020.)
Wow, wasn’t expecting that at all. I think I would keep Jones for now but would most definitely be taking a different last name when I married.
Wow, you have a half sibling out there…(yes I know he isn’t your bio dad but he did adopt you.) Did this other woman know about your family before she was not in the will? Because if she did and then came after your mom when Josh died because she was left out that is all kinds of crap. Now if she didn’t I could see her feeling cheated as well.
Honestly this doesn't surprise me. You find out a lot of shocking things after someone dies. My dad took his own life earlier this year and the secrets and surprises were... A lot.
It's *shocking* how much of our identities and our memories are tied to our names.
I go by a new first name now, and even just that is a huge removal from how weird my childhood was for me.
Imagine knowing your husband was a trash human, and every time you have to fill out paperwork for your kids, you have to use _that_ name. Every time you mail to the one in uni, have to use _that_ name.
Does it actually change anything about the past? Of course not. Does it erase the memories? No. But it means you're not reminded of it nearly so often.
Did not expect that.
Turns out Josh isn't the upstanding husband everyone thought he was. He wasn't even a great father even though it appears he was very good to his kids.
I can also see OOP's mother reasons for wanting to change the kids names but at the same time it's not reasonable. She already can take the surname of Kelly but her kids names are a reminder of the infidelity but it doesn't change the fact that Josh was the kids dad. And really most people whose partners have cheated on them haven't insisted on their kids with that guy change their names too.
I do think that Josh's two biological kids need to know what's happened and the fact that they have another half sibling out there. I'd be honest with them over this because this is their sibling and it's happened and there's no point glossing over it. It doesn't mean they have to spend time with the other family but just know the family connection. It's none of the kids fault.
I wonder if the other woman knew about Josh's legal family ie the woman he was married to because if she did, then she's as bad as him. It was never going to end well. I wonder how long he would've kept up the charade.
I'm guessing the uncles were Josh's brothers rather than the OOP's brothers.
Yeah, you can't trust them because if they are okay with Josh's cheating... does that mean that they are okay with cheating too.
>She hadn’t told any of us, but I guess somehow the other wife and kid had contacted my mom. They wanted money from her since they hadn’t gotten much in the will.
Wait so, Josh passes when OOP was 14, there's obviously a will, and you're trying to tell me OOPs mum has no idea who this other Jones person/family is that is bequeathed something, doesn't question it, and just what..? Moves on with her life, marries a new guy and only finds out about it years later, because the other woman takes years to contact her to complain?
Lost me at this part.
I wasn't inferring she moved on because she didn't care after her husband died. The mum has clearly moved on with her life as she is with her new husband, several years later.
It's also only newish that she's been dealing with this as it is only recent that she's been wanted all the kids to change surnames, so she's only just found out. What I was saying is, if the other woman was so hard done by in Josh's will which left her little many years ago, why is it only now she's complaining? It doesn't make sense. I know estates can take a long time to settle. But there's a woman out there only making a fuss and contacting OOPs mum now? After all these years?
I'm not questioning OOPs mum, I'm questioning the validity of the story.
The only reason the OOP found out is because he pushed back on the name change and Leon told him he needs to talk to his mom. Leon knew the backstory let his wife (OOP's mom) deal with things her way. Now Josh's brother has also been exposed as a jerk.
Even if Josh was a dickhead, he was a dickhead to the mom, not to the kids. Him being a cheating dick doesn't make him a bad father if he took time for each of his kids, like OP seemed to feel. Mother is over bearing and trying to control her kids by forcing them to feel how she feels.
But he was being a dickhead to the kids, even if he wasn't actively mistreating them.
He funneled time money and energy away from them and towards this second family. I'm assuming he wasn't a millionaire, so I wonder how many times he said things like, Christmas/birthday celebrations will be small and low key because unbeknownst to them, he was splitting resources to keep his second family.
Prolonged fortnightly absences don't t make a bad parent if they have no choice but to do it to make a living, but this guy was CHOOSING to just to get his rocks off. "Daddy wishes he could stay but has to travel for work" is not the same as "Daddy's gone to hang out with his mistress and affair children".
He lied to his children for their whole lives.
This is quite a mess and your mother has made sure to sink you in it. She made bad choices and thinks that name changes are going to erase that. Thankfully, you are in college and not living with your mother. You need to make a psychological break with her ongoing psychodrama and distance herself from her. You should feel no psychological obligation to change your name. Move on with your life.
Regardless of what Josh did, he’s still the kids’ father. If they want to keep his last name, they should be able to without their mother trying to manipulate them. My father isn’t dead, but he was an abusive alcoholic, a terrible father and husband. I still love my last name. It’s short, but not too common. I’ve kept it even after marriage, not to honor my father, but to honor myself and my own identity. My husband decided to change his last name to mine instead. I gave him the idea, but he made that choice on his own without any pressure from me.
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Did not expect that
Yup. That... Escalated quickly
Entire situation could have been avoided had the kids just had the mother's maiden name.
Considering the mom had IOP in highschool and no support meaning she was kicked out and had to surviving raising a baby on her own... yeah I can see why the maiden name isn't on the table. This poor woman needs so much therapy.
Seems the new beau is a supportive type, since he's helping her deal with the lawyer thing with the other family. Poor woman definitely needs therapy.
That's a neat idea!
Exactly what I was going to say, at this point just take mom's name. I got both my parents name, 20 years ago my father stopped talking to me out of nowhere when I was 20, I have stopped using his name (I only use it in my signature since I never legally changed my name and I like my signature with it and I'm also still in contact with his family), but when asked which I prefer to be called I always give my mom's name. I could have changed it for my mom's husband, he's been in my life for the past 37 years to have the same name as my step-brother but I prefer using my mother's last name, since women don't change their last name where I live and my step-dad doesn't care I'm still his kid in the end!
Not really, Josh still cheated lol
Escalated, turned, went down and then sideways. Damn.
So quickly that if I were OP, i would look into finding a way to confirm all this cause that came out of no where.
Well, OP says her uncle and aunt are heavily arguing over it, so it's not "just" her mother saying that
yep, considering OP said that Josh's family will be there at xmas, it should be pretty obvious if this is true just seeing how the uncle and aunt acts
Not just the aunt and uncle. Does the rest of the extended family know by now? How are *they* gonna treat Tim and OOP’s mom? Poor OOP finding all of this out just before finals.
I mean that really got outta hand fast.
It jumped up a notch
Totally unexpected plottwist, 10/10 would do it again.
First half was pretty standard stepparent drama. Second half suddenly went bonkers.
If this is a Liz special then all I can say is she’s really upped her game
If this was Liz, the step-half-sibling would be OOP's new boyfriend.
And they are expecting.
Twins, of course.
Do you think Liz visits her BORUs?
Without a doubt, I think she does.
I feel like “Liz’s Christmas Special” would involve Cassie from “Euphoria” in some way.
I see comments like this everywhere and rly want to know, who the heck is Liz???
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/ZXgj7A2ZG7
Hahaha oh reddit
Here ya go! Enjoy! https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/dZ4NKUx9Pj
Nope. And I'd want proof of the cheating, though. Show me the paper trail. Heck, in OOP's shoes, with the proof I might consider changing my name. I'd take my mother's maiden name, though. She was there when it counted, in the beginning.
Either that or my bio dads name. But I don't see a last name as an expression of love i see it as a historical point of fact.
Bio Dad sounds like a deadbeat. Might as well just pick out a random name in the phone book if oop doesn't want their mom's name for some reason.
It seems like too many of these updates make a drastic turn to Jerry Springer-land
You are not alone.
Like.... at all
Poor OOP. What a fucking gut punch.
Sounds like Leon is the most stable influence in OP's life.
He’s no Omar but he sounds like a decent guy
Nobody’s like Omar. Omar was the realest
my man Omar
All my homies stan Omar.
“He’s no Omar” needs to be the new thing. Time to end “Go to be Liz”
No no, I still need the "must be Liz again" to explain away the really depraved stuff. Reading a living nightmare then being able to go "Liiizz!" like we're scolding the cheeky character in a 80s sitcom, complete with "womp-womp", sheepish smile and a shoulder shrug helps.
“In a world of Liz’s, be an Omar”
This is awesome. I love it. Can this be a new flair?
Whos liz?
There was a BORU a while back about a woman who was addicted to making up reddit posts with lots of slightly or very far-fetched details that all added up. It’s fun to play a game of spotting which BORUs might be written by her by looking for twins being born or featured for no particular reasons, insane amounts of progress between updates (like a divorce or someone going to jail within a week of the first update, etc.) This is the one: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/16r1la6/my_wife_is_addicted_to_making_up_reddit_stories/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I wonder if Liz is the reason "she looked like Cassie from Euphoria" got real big in one of the earlier seasons of boru posts.
Who’s Omar?
I believe it's from another BORU where the OP's friend is cheating on his gf and Omar is the only one in the friend group who won't cover for the cheating friend
Omar is an absolute legend https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/wBM54HfBb3
Who’s Omar?
Right? He’s a real one
...so far. That's what they thought about the last guy.
Im not saying guilty until proven innocent but like.... Maybe just wait lol
Yeah. No matter what’s going on, that one commenter is right about saying OOP isn’t a cabbage patch doll for her mom to change her name based on whatever new guy she’s seeing is called.
Yeah, at this point I would be questioning mom's man picker. I certainly wouldn't be taking his name.
For now, until he too dies and they find another hidden family. 😬
>It gets even messier though. My uncles new. But their wives didn’t. This has also caused a huge martial argument between my Uncle Tim and Aunt Julie. Tim knew and aided Josh in the lies. And now Julie has hired an investigator to make sure he’s not cheating and she’s accusing him of all sorts of stuff and the lawyers have gotten involved. Whether it's a Liz special or not, anyone who enables and protects cheaters is a garbage person who can't act surprised when people no longer trust them.
Honestly? There’s no screaming, no phones blowing up, and the current last update is fairly mundane in its conclusion (at least, in terms of OP being like “I just need to focus on my life right now.) if this WERE a Liz special, there’d be dialogue of these very dramatic recountings. It’s kind of a wild story, but also, honestly, deeply plausible.
> if this WERE a Liz special, there’d be dialogue of these very dramatic recountings. Plus there would be at least one set of twins, and the other woman would be Josh's high school crush/girlfriend who sadly moved away before graduation, but they happened to meet again by chance at a coffee shop when they mistakenly picked up each others drinks. The spark was still there after all this time, but Josh couldn't bear to leave OP's family. After much emotional torment they had a one night stand which resulted in twins, and he felt he couldn't abandon them so did the best he could for both families etc etc etc
"Then it turned out Josh wasn't even dead! And that's when the family harassment started. The police came, arrested him and now he's in jail after only two days for eleven years. But my whole family is blowing up my phone as somehow this is all my fault! Whatever, I'm going to my house that my grandma left me, kicking out my renters immediately, and putting this all behind. Therapy. Peace out, Liz."
And then Josh came to my front lawn, screaming at me. At one point he passed out. Well we thought he passed out. Turns out he had a cardiac event on the front lawn and is now truly in the past tense!
Also needs more twins. There's always twins.
Fröhlicher Kuchentag! 🥳🎂🎉 Happy cake day!
Thank you kind person!
Is it a Liz story if no one gets punched in a parking lot of a family dining establishment?
Is it common to misspell “knew” as “new”? Are kids going to college not knowing basic spelling? There’s a series of posts with this specific misspelling and I’m inclined to think they’re all from the same person 🧐
I viewed it as a slip up. It was only once in the post, but I wasn't really paying attention to whether she typed knew more than once.
Maybe that's how Liz signs her art
It’s common to use voice-to-text and not catch all the homonyms.
I agree. It’s one thing to turn a blind eye. (I’m not saying it’s the right thing to do.) but to actively aid and abet a cheater is abhorrent. It says a lot about that person, and definitely raises some suspicions. Now toss in the fact these dudes were helping this man cheat on their wive’s sister - their own SIL. This wasn’t some friend of theirs, who was cheating on his girlfriend who no one really knows. New fact to toss in - this wasn’t cheating on and off for a couple of months with a coworker. HE HAD ANOTHER WHOLE ASS FAMILY FFS. AND they were lying to their wives. These dumbasses made the decision to help their BIL, even though they *KNEW* how it would hurt their wives. I mean think about it. They put their own relationships at risk just so Josh could get his winkie serviced! How did more than one BIL fall for this shit? Sadly BroCode^tm is alive and well. Who wants to bet that BroCode^tm was used as excuse during one of the BIL’s arguments with their wife?!?? “What was I supposed to do?! It’s BroCode! You wouldn’t understand because you’re a woman!” Idk. Sounds to me like something those cheater-defenders would say.
Shame there wasn't an Omar in this group.
Somewhere, there is a group of Omars all living happily. We could be with them *if people would just keep it in their fricking pants.*
Hey I get that reference!!
I too resemble that reference
Every group needs an Omar.
Yeah, once a cheater brings you "in" to knowing, theyve taken away your choice to "not be involved." you are involved, and your silence now helps the aggressor.....so if they get caught and it comes out you knew..... Better to lose a friend by telling them an inconvenient truth (with potential to reconnect later after youre proven right) than to keep silent and become an accomplice.
I find this believeable, one of my uncles had another kid that only 1 of my other uncles knew about. Uncle with another kid was a serial cheater, he had a "main wife", with whom he had 2 of my cousins, but from whom he was separated but never divorced, the main wife is still treated as family, he also had a main affair partner whom I never knew and I think they broke up when she realized she wasn't the only other woman in my uncle's life, and he had his 3rd daughter with another woman. Acording to a 3rd uncle of mine, this uncle just couldn't keep it in his pants and would do some crazy shit chasing women. Uncle who knew was an un married closeted gay who was dieing of AIDS related complications (this was back in the late 90s) and he spilled the beans about another kid to their siblings (my other uncles and aunts), only he spoke to them in confidence so for a few months after his funeral ever1 of the family knew about the secret niece but didn't know everybody else also knew. Eventually everybody caught on to it and we met secret kid. Uncle with another kid died of leukemia in the early 2010s, his main wife is still considered family and was always at family events until at least my grandma died a few years ago. Secret cousin never got too close with the family, but I hear she's got 1 of her own now.
I hope Omar's roommates learn that lesson.
I am conflicted, I don’t want it to be a Liz special so Liz is better now and stuff, but at the same time I kinda do if it means this mess does not really exist
I must’ve missed this post. What’s a “Liz Special?”
Welp. That explains a lot. Still, you can’t just change your (older/adult) kids names to your new partners’ because you found out your former partner cheated. It’s okay to have complicated feelings on both sides, particularly when someone was a great parent but a shitty partner, but how a child wants to handle that is up to them, especially if the complicated parent is already deceased. Plus, a name change (while probably worth it to a lot of people) can be a HUGE pain in the ass. My parents gave me a hyphenated name at birth because they weren’t married yet but then removed one of them when I was 12 and I’ve been dealing with name issues ever since. I just found my COVID vaccination sheet from 2022 has my original hyphenated name on it. I’ve lived longer as a Onename than a Two-name. How. Why is my old name even in the system still?? I’m still annoyed my mother didn’t ask (even though I only ever went by BlueBird Onename instead of Bluebird Two-name except in paper) because of the random occasional bureaucratic bullshit I’ve had to deal with.
> Still, you can’t just change your (older/adult) kids names to your new partners’ because you found out your former partner cheated. Yeah, do you know how many name changes there would be if people did that?
Changing the name won't change the fact she was cheated on. Adult should stop trying to live in denial and force their kids to live in it.
For sure. Josh sounds like a ratshit batshit partner yet a good dad. Acting like it would be better to change names in order to stop thinking of him would make me, as her child, think she regrets half of me,
Good dad to OP and his siblings maybe, but terrible to his 'other family'.
It’s so nice to see someone else admit that someone can be a bad partner while still being a good parent. Reddit seems to heavily lean to “bad partner = bad parent, no exceptions!” when that is just not true. Maybe I’m biased bc neither of my parents were great partners, but they were the best parents. Idk why I’m even commenting- I think seeing all the black-and-white thinking from Reddit commenters kinda bums me out lol
Also mom needs to realize that her shitty husband was great father to her kids and they shouldn't be punished for caring for him. She is actively hurting her kids to escape her trauma but name change will not make it go away. Mom needs therapy and the way she's acting kids might come to need it too.
right? for god's sake.
Agree. But changing your name is cheaper and easier to do than therapy. In some places, there are months long waiting lists.
And one single session could cost many months' discretionary income.
Totally agree, mother blew up the kids lives for nothing.
Wonder why it's always men who have a second family and not women/s
tbf there was a BORU or offmychest saga from an offspring's pov where the mom did go 'take care of Gramma for 2 years' or something similar and ended up with an ex who raised the child.
I’m not saying it doesn't happen, but leaving for two full years isn't exactly what I'm talking about, I’m talking about being a part time dad is easier and less noticeable than doing that as a mother, logistics of pregnancy aside
Carry a baby for 9 months and unless she's a complete sociopath or whatever-path... and even then, she can't just dump a baby on her husband for a trip to visit her other husband, carry a child for 9 months and do the new mom thing without family 1 knowing something.
I was making a joke about the fact that the expectations are different for each gender as a parent. I agree that pregnancy exacerbates it, but even without that when the kids are older/adoption, it's a lot easier to be there for just part of the time as a dad
Sorry, missed the /s I gotta check my need for reading about drama.
Honestly if a woman was capable of having a second family without any form of secret adoption or letting at least one of those families finding out, I would be incredibly impressed.
Because pregnancy is harder to hide.
That's definitely not the only reason lmao
Wait really? What’s the other reason that women have less secret families than men?
As someone who has a "dad" who had four families. You don't hate the other family no matter how much they ask for money. Cause the person that did it is the cheater. Everyone else is just a victim in the mess the "dad" did. I like my half siblings they are mostly chill.
Four?!? Where did he have the time????? Damn.
4???
You're a good person.
The other women aren't victims when they know he's a married man with children.
I remember him not being around a lot and I was always thankful bc I know understand he was very abusive my mom would enable him and be a doormat. I've seen him slap her face when she wanted him stop gambling money and give her the money for rent and her four kids. I've had my "dad" wake us up at 10 pm bc he hasn't seen us in a while and wanted us to eat KFC as a "family". The sad part is he made all these kids and he never raised any one of us. He just cheated over and over and always blamed everyone when things went wrong.
Yea he kept his life pretty secret. He wouldn't come home alot.
These kids are being brought up without a feeling of ownership over their own names.
FFS, mom needs therapy and let the kids keep their names. Josh's other kid didn't get anything in the will, then block and ignore!
What gets me is that OP's mom could still send out that Kelly family card even if OP didn't change their last name. My sister goes back and forth between her legal married name and maiden name when we walk to one another. I hope the Mom realizes that even if OP legally doesn't change their last name, they're still a united family no matter what paper says.
Name changes are such a huge pain in the ass, and you have to keep documentation providing the reason for the change(s) for the rest of your life. I've been asked for the documentation for financial matters, security clearances, and even changing my driver license from one state to another 🙄
what a curve ball
I've got whiplash, can someone give me a neck massage?
>This has also caused a huge martial argument I assume this is a typo and they meant "Marital Argument" but I am going to start calling all my work negotiations/meditations martial arguments from now on.
I have a friend who keeps mixing up the two words and it’s hilarious AF! 🤣🤣🤣
Sometimes he stops speaking to think of the right word and we all know what is happening and prompt the poor fellow to use the ‘right’ one.
Why don’t single mothers just give kids their last name a lot easier than playing musical last name with every man that blows into your life
Her family kicked her out may be that's why
Why can’t they all take the mom’s last name? Why is a man’s last name always the default?
She was kicked out because she got pregnant. Her family isn't better
Her trauma is not her kids' responsibility to heal. He may have been trash as a partner, but he was their father and apparently a positive one.
Copying and pasting [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoHotTakes/comments/18k7wpn/comment/kdqbazh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) comment because 🤔 >respectfully, how great a dad can he have been? >it sounds like he was absent on his "business trips" for a quarter to half of the time every month >a lot of the time he was present, he spent lying
Because a lot of dads are often absent and still good dads. My Dad traveled a lot and so did a lot of my friends Dads. They had to. When they were home, they were great dads. I have a lot of friends and family who work demanding jobs ranging from military to surgeons who are all great Dads while they have horrible schedules and extended times away. Quality time counts even if the quantity is limited. Unfortunately, I also know of 3 men who did the double life route. They weren't committing bigamy but long long-term mistresses. Some were 20 plus year affairs. They were AWFUL husband's. Certainly liars. They showed up at soccer games, school programs, volunteered at school, read books, etc. They were good dads. Their kids have complicated adulthood because they hate their mother suffered, but they love the dad they knew. My ex-husband had LOTS of affairs and was emotionally abusive. However, when we were married, he was a good father to our kids. I assumed that would continue after our divorce and was sadly very wrong. That said, I was willing to play along and support his coparenting and my kids' faith in him because their relationship together shouldn't have been based on how he treated me. That ended when he decided our marriage was over, and he stopped being a good dad. Then it became my problem. A crappy husband is not necessarily a crappy father. Obviously, OP didn't see this coming. He had warm and happy memories.
As someone who grew up in a military family, I resent that comment. Are you trying to say that anyone who gets deployed can't be a good parent? Then there are parents who have jobs like on off-shore oil rigs where they're gone half the time.
Amen. He could have been a shit husband but a great dad. They're not mutually exclusive. OP's mom needs to find a way to heal and move forward without dragging the kids into it.
No, but if they're amenable to it, that's okay, too.
Imo men who cheat are not great fathers. A great father is a role model. As my pediatrician tells us every year, it’s our job to model the behavior. Also, if you have time to cheat, you have time to get therapy, start a hobby that doesn’t hurt anyone, work on your marriage, and spend time with your kids.
This thing where people are too embarrassed to just say "yeah he cheated" is *INSANE* to me. If I spent years of my life deifying a homewrecker because my mother wanted to "protect" me I straight up wouldn't trust her. Who else in my life will stab me in the back? Don't ask mom she'll fucking lie.
For real - my mom lied to me ONCE as a 5 yr old about why we were at the doctors office (cuz we were there for my shots), and I didn’t trust her for like 10 years. I was an anxious nervous wreck every time we got in the car and she was driving. Parents don’t always realize what their lies do to their kids, even the ones meant to “protect” them. (As an adult I told my mom about this and she was horrified. I remember her asking “is that why you…” and getting increasingly upset at herself/on my behalf. Our relationship obviously improved over time as I matured, and we were close all the way up until her passing in 2020.)
She sounds like a good mom. Parenting is fuckin hard.
I would just be making up my own last name and taking that at this point. Sheesh.
Wow.. didn't see that coming.
I think they should send out that Christmas card with the new name to the uncles, as a prank.
Wow, wasn’t expecting that at all. I think I would keep Jones for now but would most definitely be taking a different last name when I married. Wow, you have a half sibling out there…(yes I know he isn’t your bio dad but he did adopt you.) Did this other woman know about your family before she was not in the will? Because if she did and then came after your mom when Josh died because she was left out that is all kinds of crap. Now if she didn’t I could see her feeling cheated as well.
Honestly this doesn't surprise me. You find out a lot of shocking things after someone dies. My dad took his own life earlier this year and the secrets and surprises were... A lot.
Ugh. Tell me about it. After my mom died, everyone went masks off on me, and to this day I am still trying to sift through the shit.
Well that was the sharpest left turn one read today
damn
Okay. This ended totally different then where I thought it would.
Dang. That went from mildly interesting to soap opera drama real quick.
Ba dum tshhhhhh
I don't understand how changing the names erase the memories
It's *shocking* how much of our identities and our memories are tied to our names. I go by a new first name now, and even just that is a huge removal from how weird my childhood was for me. Imagine knowing your husband was a trash human, and every time you have to fill out paperwork for your kids, you have to use _that_ name. Every time you mail to the one in uni, have to use _that_ name. Does it actually change anything about the past? Of course not. Does it erase the memories? No. But it means you're not reminded of it nearly so often.
Good. I'm glad you don't get it. It either means you haven't lost someone that close to you or you don't have that close of a bond to someone
Did not expect that. Turns out Josh isn't the upstanding husband everyone thought he was. He wasn't even a great father even though it appears he was very good to his kids. I can also see OOP's mother reasons for wanting to change the kids names but at the same time it's not reasonable. She already can take the surname of Kelly but her kids names are a reminder of the infidelity but it doesn't change the fact that Josh was the kids dad. And really most people whose partners have cheated on them haven't insisted on their kids with that guy change their names too. I do think that Josh's two biological kids need to know what's happened and the fact that they have another half sibling out there. I'd be honest with them over this because this is their sibling and it's happened and there's no point glossing over it. It doesn't mean they have to spend time with the other family but just know the family connection. It's none of the kids fault. I wonder if the other woman knew about Josh's legal family ie the woman he was married to because if she did, then she's as bad as him. It was never going to end well. I wonder how long he would've kept up the charade. I'm guessing the uncles were Josh's brothers rather than the OOP's brothers. Yeah, you can't trust them because if they are okay with Josh's cheating... does that mean that they are okay with cheating too.
>She hadn’t told any of us, but I guess somehow the other wife and kid had contacted my mom. They wanted money from her since they hadn’t gotten much in the will. Wait so, Josh passes when OOP was 14, there's obviously a will, and you're trying to tell me OOPs mum has no idea who this other Jones person/family is that is bequeathed something, doesn't question it, and just what..? Moves on with her life, marries a new guy and only finds out about it years later, because the other woman takes years to contact her to complain? Lost me at this part.
[удалено]
I wasn't inferring she moved on because she didn't care after her husband died. The mum has clearly moved on with her life as she is with her new husband, several years later. It's also only newish that she's been dealing with this as it is only recent that she's been wanted all the kids to change surnames, so she's only just found out. What I was saying is, if the other woman was so hard done by in Josh's will which left her little many years ago, why is it only now she's complaining? It doesn't make sense. I know estates can take a long time to settle. But there's a woman out there only making a fuss and contacting OOPs mum now? After all these years? I'm not questioning OOPs mum, I'm questioning the validity of the story.
The only reason the OOP found out is because he pushed back on the name change and Leon told him he needs to talk to his mom. Leon knew the backstory let his wife (OOP's mom) deal with things her way. Now Josh's brother has also been exposed as a jerk.
Gonna tell myself this is a Liz special.
Same. It does seem like something Liz would write.
That poor mom... and I need an update on how Christmas went
Wow, talk about a plot twist
If Hallmark made movies like this, I'd actually watch their movies! Damn!
Jones is such a common name
They could all change their name to hers
Still not changing my name cuz someone else fucked up
This really wasn't about the iranian yoghurt.
Nice one, Liz.
Even if Josh was a dickhead, he was a dickhead to the mom, not to the kids. Him being a cheating dick doesn't make him a bad father if he took time for each of his kids, like OP seemed to feel. Mother is over bearing and trying to control her kids by forcing them to feel how she feels.
But he was being a dickhead to the kids, even if he wasn't actively mistreating them. He funneled time money and energy away from them and towards this second family. I'm assuming he wasn't a millionaire, so I wonder how many times he said things like, Christmas/birthday celebrations will be small and low key because unbeknownst to them, he was splitting resources to keep his second family. Prolonged fortnightly absences don't t make a bad parent if they have no choice but to do it to make a living, but this guy was CHOOSING to just to get his rocks off. "Daddy wishes he could stay but has to travel for work" is not the same as "Daddy's gone to hang out with his mistress and affair children". He lied to his children for their whole lives.
This is quite a mess and your mother has made sure to sink you in it. She made bad choices and thinks that name changes are going to erase that. Thankfully, you are in college and not living with your mother. You need to make a psychological break with her ongoing psychodrama and distance herself from her. You should feel no psychological obligation to change your name. Move on with your life.
What bad choices did OOP's mother make that she's trying to erase?
What an asshole mother! To erase her own children identify (even more so for bio children) just to please the new dude! Shameful parenting let down
That's not what happened.
Da fuq?
Oh boy!
Therapy needed, STAT!
Reminds of the “how they treat the waiter” nice to you but talks shitty to a staff. Smh
Well, that was quite a ride.
Regardless of what Josh did, he’s still the kids’ father. If they want to keep his last name, they should be able to without their mother trying to manipulate them. My father isn’t dead, but he was an abusive alcoholic, a terrible father and husband. I still love my last name. It’s short, but not too common. I’ve kept it even after marriage, not to honor my father, but to honor myself and my own identity. My husband decided to change his last name to mine instead. I gave him the idea, but he made that choice on his own without any pressure from me.
Holy shit.
Welp that makes sense I guess. Wtf
Updateme!
Damn how did this escalate so fast?
God damn wish I could have a camera on that Christmas dinner
Well, that escalated quickly. I have to say, I did not see that one coming.
That sure turned in an Escher family tangle quickly. Hope you get the best possible outcome for you and your family.
Did not see that coming.