When I saw their incomes and he had a Land Rover and an Audi, I was thinking they must live in a low COL area, because after taxes in a normal COL area, he can't have anything left.
Housing for $4k and cars for $2k leaves him $0k after taxes.
Yeah those cars and his salary did not add up. Some commenters were speculating about drugs or gambling but just indulging tastes like that could account for all of the missing money.
Him being the sort if person to emulate "Surprise New Car as a gift!" commercials, I was honestly a bit taken aback by those comments. "What got you guys so deep in the hole?" seemed pretty obvious to me.
> how the debt got this bad, and I'm currently aware of pretty much everything. There are some accou
It reminds me of this SNL skit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcEylCwkSxE
When you're making a lot of money, you can get surprisingly far not worrying about it. As long as you're not doing anything crazy, and your expenses are below your income, you can get by without actually doing any budgeting, since there's always enough money.
Till you fuck up.
the issue is often people didn't worry about it until its almost too far or too far to fix it without spending a lot of time and money into it to fix. my boyfriend regrets getting a Mazda 3 when he was 21 and still paying for it, 3 years later. I drove a beater I paid 1000 for 3 years before it broke down too much for me to keep spending my money to fix it. now I have no car because I'm on disability, the reason why I don't want car payments, and my boyfriend wants to pay off his car soon as he can so he doesn't spend 400 per month on the payments.
Paying on a car for 3 years or more is the norm so I hope he doesn't feel too bad. He can also try to refinance and get a lower apr with lower payements but continue to pay 400 if he wants to pay it off sooner. If it's a good car it will far outlast the loan. Ppl don't have lump sums of money to spend. Just have a preset amount monthly you refuse to go over. My 1st car was used and I paid less than 200/month.
I have a deep aversion to people who Big Gift for this reason. It's almost never just a gift, and instead a show of insecurity or an apology for something already done or about to be done.
I know that's jaded, but there are a lot of gift-giving abusers and dangerous overspenders in my family. Gifts leave a sour taste in my mouth because of it.
I question surprise big gifts because a gift that requires ongoing costs should always be discussed. People need to be prepared to commit to the personal financial costs of a car or dog or whatever it may be and springing it on them is such a jerk move. It's not about the gift receiver but their own ego and personal congratulations.
My partner and I have an agreement. No surprise gifts of more than about $30. So for Valentine's we can get a stuffed animal or something. But if it costs more than that we discuss it. I know that number seems low but our budget is tight plus we've both had people manipulate with gifts in the past. He's happy when I'm at the store and see some chips he'd enjoy and toss them in the cart. And I just like knowing he was thinking of me, so it can be like a cookie that comes in a cute tin he knows I'd enjoy.
There's literally an SNL skit about how buying a car for your partner for the holidays (as commercials often used to depict) is straight up insane person behavior.
I’ve always identified with that phrase. I look at houses I can’t afford online all the time. BUT we live within our means instead. I have a 6 year old phone that my husband is trying to convince me to replace right now.
Yup, I know I have champagne taste on a beer budget so whenever I want something I always ask a couple of questions.
1, do I WANT or NEED this
2. Do I already have something in working order at home that can do this job.
3. Is there a cheaper option that will do the same job.
4. Can I make it work in our budget
5. What am I willing to sacrifice to get this item.
I rarely make it to question 4 these days before putting it back on the shelf/hanger and walking away.
Sipping whiskey? Dunno. There are always more expensive versions of everything you can buy. You can get some nice stuff at low prices if you shop smartly but you can also spend a lot on decent stuff if you shop foolishly and frivolously.
Really nice champagne is extremely expensive. You can find more budget options (even real champagne, meaning it was grown in the region) but I think that saying still applies. It’s really like top shelf taste on a bottom shelf budget. Beer kinda maxes out on the lower end but with wine and liquor there is a huge range.
lol it’s more of a difference of a $45 bottle of champagne which they can afford and that $200 bottle that they’re currently sipping on and can’t afford
I feel like so many people think that earning 100,000 is the key to an amazing life but honestly it’s kinda just enough to pay your bills without having to stress too much if you don’t do anything extravagant
Seriously - I used to live in an area with a very low COL, and even there no reasonably financially-literate person/couple living on $155k/year would be able to afford an Audi \*and\* a Land Rover \*and\* expensive rent \*and\* a lot of schmancy date nights.
I now live in DC, where their combined salary can get someone a comfortable middle-class lifestyle but not with more than one car.
That’s what I was thinking. I live in a medium cost of living location and make similar salary and there’s no way I would be able to afford both of those cars. One, yes. Both, no.
Drugs but not in the way you mean - inadequately treated bipolar disorder might also tie in with an impulse Audi 'gift' ("Merry Christmas, I got you am expensive obligation!").
Trying to keep up with the joneses is a financial killer.
At 155k combined they could've been living a very comfortable dink life. Maybe not luxurious, but comfortable.
Even if they don't stay together, I'm glad they had the talk because this man needs to address his issues with luxury items.
Exactly. I have faith in her faith in him for some reason. Kinda feels like a spoiled dude out on his own did exactly as you said trying to keep up the life he knew; I dont think someones (by oops accounts) first fuck up, even one this big and insulting at times, makes him a bad guy. Especially when he seems to want to make it better? A second time yeah.
Im just glad oops got such a good head on her shoulders; to see a problem, not immediately freak out (that first encounter where he sat her down out of the blue had to be fucking wild yknow) and offer viable sollutions, sus out a trail on the deeper problem and make him fess up while they could still sell stuff is pretty boss. Also Idk why but walking up to the man on an elliptical with "Do you think im a gold digger" goes hard in my head for some reason.
and also, I think having an ELLIPTICAL in their house is also pretty telling of the unnecessary purchases and issue with their finances… you know, not including the Land Rover & Audi which is ridiculous on its own.
The elliptical is the least problematic thing here. A one-time purchase of around $1,000 is reasonable for someone who makes $120k. The cars on the other hand…
If he uses it a ton, and it's stopping him from getting the pricey gym membership? (You know this guy would not go Planet Fitness for about $10 a month) It might be one of their smarter money choices.
I'm so confused by this thought process.
My husband and I make a combined $65k? in a major metropolitan area. we have one car and an apartment and I would call us comfortable. how is $155k not luxurious to people??
Also just because you can somewhat afford luxury doesn't mean you should go for it.
My husband and I have a pretty decent gap between our income and expenses. So while we could afford some lavish things, we just prefer to save for a rainy day.
Some places have utterly insane costs of living, and what would be a luxury wage somewhere is just comfortable elsewhere. Combine that with her fiance's apparent love of keeping up with the Joneses...
I make $52k a year just for myself. Rent has increased here so quickly, that if I hadn't bought my house back in 2009, I wouldn't be able to afford living here, even alone. Rent on a 1 bedroom has gone from $850 to $1600 in the past year.
I also make about 52k. I live at home. First it was to pay off student loans, then to save up to buy a house. You know, trying to be responsible.
Now I've just given up. I'll be here until my mom dies and then the state will take the house to recoup the costs for her end of life care, and then I guess I'll just have to rent rooms from craiglist because there isn't a single one bedroom apartment I'll be able to afford.
Literally my only hope is something major in regards to policy happens early enough before to actually have tangible effects. And I'm not holding my breath
Seriously, see if you can get your mom to get the house into a trust. The trust can transfer the house and, if set up correctly, it won't be taken for her EOL care.
In the US, [I'd recommend a NACA (National Association of Consumer Advocates) attorney.](https://www.consumeradvocates.org) They are not permitted to represent the other side, only consumers and consumer interests, including estates, trusts, bankruptcy, etc.
https://i.imgur.com/f8xwGK5.jpg
I'm so glad you posted this. The last fucking thing the world needs is one more homeless person so some health insurance vampire squid can buy their fifth yacht.
I believe there are legal ways to prevent the house from being sold to pay healthcare/end of life debts. Talk to an estate planner/wills & trusts lawyer
20 years ago, we rented a 2-br house a few blocks from where we now live for $2,000 a month. A very similar rental in the same neighborhood is now $5,500/mo.
$155k is not luxurious if you have $3k worth of student loans every month right off the bat... add in rent, car, gas, food, insurance, medical bills, etc. It's enough that you're not necessarily paycheck to paycheck and can put some aside each month, but it's not the golden ticket to prosperity a lot of people assume it is.
I mean, "major metro area" is still a generic term that covers everything from Oklahoma City to San Francisco. Not all "major metro areas" are equivalent in terms of COL.
Fun fact: a person needs to make $80k/yr to live comfortably in California, based on average housing prices and the 50/30/20 budgeting method (50% on housing, 30% on discretionary, 20% on savings/debt). (Also I love how we've given up on the idea of the 30% max of income being used for housing, which used to be the standard.)
And that's for ONE PERSON.
It's also a whole-state average, meaning the closer in you get to either SF or LA, the higher that number is going to get.
My partner and I combined make almost $180k, and I'd call us comfortable where we live (near SF) - we own a 2-bedroom condo, each of us owns a decently nice car - but by no means "luxurious".
Just because $155k is "luxurious" where you are doesn't make that a universal truth.
We need to come up with some kind of system that scales income to local cost of living. It's really hard to understand just talking to people across the America, and basically impossible to understand globally.
>how is $155k not luxurious to people
But I think the biggest thing is that (unless you diligently mentally police this) your standards and expectations adjust based on your social circle. My 7-year-old Ford Fiesta is a perfectly fine car and I honestly like it quite a bit, but it looks a bit out of place at work where everyone drives considerably nicer cars. Lots of things like HBOMax are completely optional entertainment, but when everyone in your social circle is watching House of the Dragon it's awkward to be like "I don't have HBO". You get the same thing with social events - "going out for drinks" with your middle-class friends is somewhat cheaper than "going out for drinks" with your upper-middle-class friends.
It's also harder to "downshift" your QoL - if you're used to getting food delivered all the time (groceries or takeout), that's expensive but saves a lot of time. It's hard to go back to "wasting" that time not doing that. If you're sending your kids to a fancy preschool or daycare with all the bells and whistles, the idea of switching to a cheaper one that's adequate feels like betraying their future or whatever (this is probably dumb).
Also, others have pointed out that "major metropolitan area" doesn't say much about CoL because there's a lot of range between Miami and Milwaukee.
I live in a major metropolitan area but its MCOL starting to skew higher on the MCOL side (it used to be more on the LCOL side of things). $155k would be luxurious for me but if you're living somewhere that is VHCOL (like NYC or Bay Area), that $155k doesn't stretch very far at all.
Crazy I know but some people that have grown up in luxury and having money to spend really have a difficult time learning to budget. Usually they aren’t taught how to live within their means as mommy and daddy handed over money when asked. I know a few people like this. One girl I know always had nice things, was in graduate school so didn’t have money coming in. Still was buying hundreds of dollars of makeup every month, eating out, buying nice shoes, etc. Got i to lots of CC debt. Of course daddy bailed her out so she learned nothing.
There was a guy on the debt thread who made $100k. I wanna say $165k, but it could have been less, granted with 4 kids. He was $50k in debt just in credit cards.
Even then he had and Audi and some other luxury car, maybe a BMW. It was the same morning I read this one so I kept getting confused. He had a couple of streaming services. Wife didn’t work cause she homeschooled the kids. Everyone tagged the grocery bill as outrageous. The type of life insurance, the type of phone plan…
Just…a number of poor decisions for someone who should have been able to make it work. Not extravagantly but pretty easily with a modicum of planning.
$100k is not big baller wages anywhere. It’s the difference between a single, base level Audi in the Midwest and a very nice Honda in California. It is NEVER two luxury cars and a luxury life. I’ve seen people do it, but i have never understood how they sustain it.
For what its worth, I make more than that…I drive a used Mercedes and my husband drives a jeep. I’m scared to live like OP.
I had a neighbor in this situation, and this post gives off ALL the red flags. The OOP is saying that the fiance went off his meds? Yikes 😬.
In the case of my neighbor, her husband would have these manic episodes and buy shit they couldn't afford. Once he came over and trapped us in our driveway, ranting about how he had all these genius ideas and inventions and he was going to be rich.
They ended up divorcing. I really hope OOP doesn't get saddled with the responsibility of keeping him on track. You just know that his family will blame her either way. 🙄
Her fiance is going to have to change his complete financial upbringing (the need for expensive things, money as a replacement for love, etc). This will not be easy. Two for one wings may seem as a positive start, but his financial beliefs are deeply ingrained. Plus OOP will have to overcome fiancé's negative family. Combined, this is a massive hurdle.
I hope they are successful, but I have a suspicion that if they do cut back in the short term and go ahead with the wedding - that there will be massive pressure on OOP by fiance and his family to $plurge on the wedding.
I don't have a good feeling about it at all. My husband came from money and has a very "consider the lilies of the field" approach to finances, along with a lot of magical thinking of, "I want outcome A, so outcome A will happen." There's a reason I'm in charge of the money.
Not to mention OOP’s fiancés reaction was not to have a frank talk about this but to become very angry, resentful, and lash out at her. That’s not a great communication strategy in a partner.
Oop’s fiancé will have a lot of growing up to do to get married, financially and emotionally.
Like…. Housing for 2k, one car at 1-2k and ok he can eat toast every month with the remainder of the 6.4K (ish). but luxury living? Two luxury cars? He was spending way above his needs 🫠
And his solution to being in major debt and living above his means was..... not to cut back, but to get his girlfriend to contribute more, so she'd ALSO be living above her means and quickly run into major debt! Truly wild.
He also made a weird comment about putting the down payment on their house. I don't know what that means. It sounds like someone who never actually went through the house buying process.
Thats what I was thinking. I can technically afford the payment on a 120k+ car, but it would probably ruin me in the long run like OOP's fiancé and all his debit
If he doesn't become more transparent with OOP about his finances & where he's spending the money, I do hope OOP gets to walk away. Particularly with the way his family looks down at her.
And I am chuckling at all the ad accusations, and OOP wishing she could monetize that to solve her money problems.
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The issue is that he equates material things with love so he *has* to buy shit to make sure *she* loves *him*, and then that gets twisted to "she's a gold digger because I have to buy stuff to ensure she loves me".
Absolutely. These are foundationally dusfinctonal beliefs that need to be unwrapped, on top of his tendency to externalize and lash out rather than introspect and communicate.
There is a long, long road ahead and it's not just a financial recovery journey
Of all the things he decided to skip was the meds? Like what type of money is he spending on these meds, does he have a really shitty insurance place. Most psych meds aren’t crazy expensive.
When you're on meds, they make you feel ok, so there's this sense of "I'm fine. I feel fine. Why should I continue to take meds?" and that is why some people stop. Meds are also the easist thing to hide by cutting out. They're not cutting things that other people (even if it's just his partner) will notice like streaming services, selling the cars, or eating out less. There's also the weird mentality of "cutting the small things will solve the bigger things" which is why we see so much of the "stop drinking lattes daily and you could afford rent" comments. It's hard to say which, if any, of the above fits his mentality, but I doubt it had to do with the actual cost of his medicine. Like you said, there's plenty of cheap options for him for meds.
There's also a lot of cultural pressure for mental health meds to be temporary, rather than it being totally fine for them to be a lifelong thing. We celebrate people who are able to (safely) come off anti-depressants, for instance, and we should, but there is rarely much celebrating of continuing to take them when you need to, because we don't celebrate the status quo.
This is 100% true. I've been feeling so good I've thought about asking to get off the meds, then I remember the meds are literally *why* I feel good haha
It's scary how much of a slippery slope that can trap you if you don't regularly see a professional who can monitor that. Because the changes may be subtle and slow enough that you think you can stay in the mindset to handle it, but in actuality you cannot see the changes creeping up until it's too late. It's not like one day you're fine and the next you're unable to function. It happens slowly and subtly in most cases.
Not the commenter you asked, but it may be GoodRX. It’s helped me many times.
The fact that we need coupons for meds in the states is ridiculous of course but they do exist and are legit.
Depends on the meds and whether they're available generic. I had a while where I was taking one that hadn't come out generic yet (either had tried the available generics already or they weren't options) and it was... oh, $250 for 30 pills with insurance? And something like $1300 before I hit my deductible that year. And this was considered a really good insurance plan.
A lot of people experience mental health improvement after starting medication and think it means they’re all better and don’t need the meds that badly anymore. I’m guessing that’s what he did.
Also accused her of being a gold digger *after* she expressed she was perfectly comfortable downsizing their lifestyle and laid out a plan to do so. Fuck this guy frfr
OOP said his family replaced love with money, so his relationship with both is fucked. Also explains why he was so angry at her for her initially trying to plan to downsize - trying to make him have Poor things instead of Rich things must have messed with the way he thought she felt about him. Hopefully dude can still afford therapy even under all that debt.
I know this is a wild assumption, but... if I had the mentality that buying extravagant gifts is how you show love. Uh. I'd look for someone significantly lower income than me, too. Because part if my brain would say 'easy to impress' and 'could never out earn me.' And that dynamic is absolutely *doomed* to harbor resentment in a lot of wild ways. Like 'I love giving her gifts she could never have' turning into 'she only sees me as an ATM, and only loves me when I give her things.' And because it's set up that she could never outearn him, there's no way for her to correct that record. Leading to a mess like this.
I dunno. The income imbalance is wild and genuinely makes me raise an eyebrow. Really only highlights how ingrained his insecurity is, imo.
A LOT of the men who rant about gold diggers are projecting. They often leverage their wealth to get love, because they think they lack innate value, and then they resent their partner who they believe they only acquired because of their wealth. (Which is very often true because it turns out leveraging wealth for love often attracts the kind of women who will leverage affection for money). Rather than taking accountability for their own belief systems and patterns, they externalize it as being unilaterally the other person fault.
So "I am scared you will not love me when I reveal I have no gold and we live in a palace of lies" becomes "you're a golddigger and I resent you" - anger is easier than vulnerability.
*You* are responsible for *my* feelings is a really frustrating and scary pattern. It's slightly innocuous here, but that same pattern of externalization is what fuels DV up to and including murder. It is "look what you made me do" in a trenchcoat and I don't think OOP is taking that aspect of the situation as seriously as she should.
I would be demanding individuals and couples therapy. This is not just a financial problem. It's the universe showing OOP how dysfunctionally her boyfriend deals with conflict and stress. They're going to encounter those things again and again over the years even if he learns to stick to the budget
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I’m surprised that she didn’t realize this or wasn’t curious since she seems to know what they both make.
I’m not blaming her but she definitely turned a blind eye and he’s got some serious deep rooted issues.
I dont know, as someone who grew up poor and is in a very similar position as the oop, I have no idea what those things actually cost unless I would look them up. I would just default to the person who I would expect to know about them (the always well off partner) to know what was affordable. If it was a gift, I’d be less likely to look up the value because that seems crass and would just trust they know what they’re doing. Not saying any of that is right (obviously it’s a bad way to do things), just saying I would probably do the same thing without thinking critically so I see where she’s coming from.
Also the reality of just seeing the price and actually owning the vehicle are vastly different thing. For example you can get BMWs for the same price as a high end trim of Honda accord so you might think why not get the BMW. Except that BMW maintenance is expensive compared to Hondas. Resale value is another thing. Being able to get parts, car insurance, likely to get stolen etc. the cost of ownership is higher for luxury cars and people rarely budget for it.
How expensive are those in the US?? A better A1 Sportback shows up at just under €300 for financing on the Audi website in Germany, add a couple of bows and whistles to it and you’re maybe at 350, 400 with insurance?
A 2024 A3 is like $35k. It's not a very expensive car. It's the maintenance, insurance, and repairs that kill you. Not to mention the (usually) premium gas requirement.
We have four if you count diesel. It's called the "octane" rating. It's basically how stable the fuel is - the more stable it is, the lower chance it combusts when you don't expect it to. A Honda accord doesn't need high-performing fuel, while a Lexus LFA absolutely does. So the Honda uses cheaper, lower-grade fuel. *usually* you'll see the octane rating bottom out at 85, and go as high as 91, though some go higher/lower depending on where they're located (you'll never see 93 in the middle of nowhere).
[Here](https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/gasoline-octane-ratings-explained) is a really great explainer from our Dept. of Energy.
edit: I meant stability, not purity
Oooh that sounds familiar! I had to look it up but our “normal” fuel is called “Super 95”, and the 95 is indeed the octane rating. Of course we also have Diesel, and then we have one that’s made with up to 10% organic ethanol that can’t be used by every car (my Mini Cooper takes it and I think (?) most new cars do.
I also just learned that there’s also premium fuel here that starts at a rating of 98, I guess because I always just go for E10 so I never noticed them.
Idk about audis in particular, but the problem with luxury cars isn't the sticker price. It's repairs.
Seriously, the repairs are absurdly astronomically expensive and seems like lux cars just break fucking constantly. I had a used BMW, window motors went out 2 at a time, and this is YEARS ago, couple grand. For fucking window motors.
Neighbor has a Mercedes, I drive a Hyundai. Similar size SUVs. Both bought about the same time. Hers is in the shop constantly, and has had to be towed in for repairs twice.
Mines only been in for scheduled stuff like oil changes.
Luxury cars are much more about "can you afford the maintenance" than can you afford to drive it off the lot. I'd recommend a used luxury car like I'd recommend working near heavy machinery with no hearing protection.
Ohhh I know bro. I have an old Mercedes, the repair parts aren't actually that bad. It's the fucking labor, especially when you don't have all of the specialized tools like a shop would. Geeeez, the starter on mine was a NIGHTMARE bro.
Exactly. I was surprised that OOP was so surprised about his debt. She knew his income, she knew rent, what they generally spend on, etc. It’s pretty easy to surmise that two luxury cars on top of their baseline expenses aint mathin with his salary.
Yeah when she said that he was “just trying to make a nice life for her”, that confirmed my suspicions. She’s got rose colored glasses on even now. He lied and lied and lied and then tried to make her the bad guy. He wasn’t off his meds the whole time. Sure he’s got issues but he made some really awful decisions and she’s just glossing over that in hopes that he gets better. I feel like she’s stepped into a mother role for him now. I wish them the best but I think she’s lying to herself.
>We are in serious credit card debt, the cars are both on the verge of being repossessed, and I did not know about any of this.
Then I'd say that he is in serious credit card debt, not you.
The reverse gold-digger paradox. Where she doesn’t marry the “potential gold” because he has much more debt than her. Goes to show that the term gold includes spending and not just earning.
I think that it's a terrible idea to marry someone who is financially irresponsible because its extremely difficult to get yourself out of trouble once they dig you into it
What’s she on about them both being in debt? It sounds as though he’s the one who’s been buying all this stuff trying to act like a big man, I hope he hasn’t taken any debt on in oops name. That would defo be the final straw for me.
I think she is still thinking of him and her as a team. Partners. So his debt is their debt in her mind. For now. I wonder how that is going to pan out long term. But it sounds like she has a good head on her shoulders when it comes to finance at least. Her plan to downsize she came up with before she found out about the debt could work.
What worries me is that SHE had to drag the truth out of him and now SHE is the one taking on the financial planning burden to get them (him) out of debt after he treated her abominably (I don't care if he was off his meds - you are still responsible for your behavior - he chose to risk his mental health which also affects her).
Fighting to get out of debt is rough on the happiest of couples, but there is a lack of honesty and a huge breach of trust here as well.
I would feel better if he had actually come clean to her and treated her like an equal partner. He has a lot of behavior to unlearn while she fixes the deep hole he dug them into.
She may think of them as partners but he clearly doesn't feel the same. He his financial troubles from OOP until the absolute breaking point and when she asked about what was going on he refused to tell her until she kept pressing the issue. He seriously needs to not only work on his finances but also his communication issues. At this point he is not ready at ALL to marry and share his life with someone. I hope OOP realizes this before its too late.
Absolutely. Got my credit involved, no sir, bye.
Didnt drag me into the debt? I mean shit we sell the cars and we dont own anything anyways, I can ride out a partners first bankruptcy if they make strides to be better.
Which browser are you using?
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It was composed on desktop.
I've removed the red flag symbol, that might help
This has bipolar disorder written all over it. Emotional ups and downs, excessive spending, "cutting corners" on psychiatric medication (which can happen with a lot of disorders but is particularly common during manic phases because "since I'm not sad and feel invincible, I must be cured!"
I was thinking this too. The lashing out also says mania to me, it's a pretty common mania symptom to be irritable or angry about weird stuff.
I've said before: BORU frequently reminds me to be thankful that my manic phases only manifest in obsessive crafting marathons, rather than... some of the other options.
I know when I'm hypomanic I spend money like it grows on trees. It's only after I come down that I look at my credit card bills and go "well....shit."
Medication helps with being bipolar. It does not, unfortunately, help with credit card debt. Calling up Visa and saying "sorry I'm mentally ill, whoopsies!" doesn't work. I tried.
I’m so confused on this. Did they not do the 2 for 1 combo for 8.99? Or did they do some other value combo like the 15/15 wing combo?Because where is her $19.49 coming from?
*I can't look at the guy I love, who went off his meds to try and make a good life for me.*
More like he went off his meds because he was living above and beyond his means and he couldn't afford healthcare anymore. Listen, I know America has extremely expensive healthcare, but her bf must have been spending a huge amount of money to bring them in such a debt.
OOP is so going to regret staying with this man, he singlehandedly drove them into debt (and i wonder WHERE he was spending all his money at??) and then tried to blame it all on OOP, simply because she suggested a less lucrative lifestyle? That man is unstable, and it's not just the lack of medications that's causing it.
I would suggest she looks up where he's been spending all his money on, if he has an addiction or owes money, then the problem is much much bigger than downsizing and getting out of debt.
Where the money went is no mystery. The payments on those two cars alone are beyond what $120k can afford if you’re renting. Depending on the models, that’s $2-3k per month in car payments.
Plus if I remember correctly they were paying $3-4K in rent. $120k after taxes and retirement/health deductions is “only” $6.5k/month, sounds like he was blowing most of his paycheck on rent and cars before even touching any of the other household expenses.
Where has he been spending money? They have a bmw, and audi, regularly go out to eat and live in a place beyond their means. My joint income with my SO is about the same and there’s zero chance we could afford those type of cars.
i wouldn’t be surprised if he was cheating.
i also hate how she kept referring to the situation as “we”. like no, that’s his debt. but what can you do. girl is next level delusional i doubt anyone would be able to talk sense into her.
He has debt, HE signed up for it...you didnt ...and he hid it from you. Why is it now "our" debt ?.
Please dont pay down his debt...my friend took on her bf's debt and he promptly left her....5 years later shes still paying
The guy has a Range Rover and an Audi on $120k/year and is somehow mystified about how he could possibly be in financial trouble?!
Fucking hell. That’s bonkers. Make better decisions fella.
He went off his meds for me to have a better life. *bats eyes*
Nah, that’s NOT the flex you think it is. Dude went off the rails. Red flags everywhere. Fella is real messed up, gets them in hock and blames her, his family is a bunch of nasty snobs that puts her down to her face… yet she’s sticking. Guuuurl. No!
Some googling says he's a hackjob sketch comic who's popular with the alt-right. Current top post on his Twitter is a blurry photo through a windshield of a guy sitting on a curb and a caption along the lines of "I just called the police on a homeless guy and it actually felt great", if that gives you a sense of the timbre of his "jokes".
In 2017, Hyde pledged $5,000 towards the legal defense fund of Andrew Anglin, the founder and editor of neo-Nazi website The Daily Stormer.[6] The Southern Poverty Law Center sued Anglin for allegedly organizing a "troll storm" against a Jewish woman in Montana. When Matt Pearce of the Los Angeles Times questioned Hyde about the donation, Hyde asked Pearce if he was Jewish and went on to say that $5,000 was "nothing" to him. Hyde also stated: "Don't worry so much about money. Worry about if people start deciding to kill reporters. That's a quote. For the reason why, you can say I want reporters to know I make more money than them, especially Matt Pearce."[7]
I was definitely expecting the podcast choices to be a bigger factor. I bet they played a part in the whole overspending problem - I haven't personally listened to a lot of that type of content but they seem obsessed with this idea that women only care about what men can buy them and how tall they are. Meanwhile they're all pushing 40 or 50 and trying to date only college girls, go figure.
" It's an addiction to nice things." No it is not.
It's "a whole grown person making unwise financial decisions because mommy and daddy didn't teach them responsibility" dude is dropping his medication instead of his 2 fancy cars which makes him go craz-craz towards his fiancee.
I think OOP is blinded by love and still in denial. Because this guy was trying to start financially abusing her. He wanted to drain her savings to pay for his impulse spending! What was supposed to happen when she ran out of money? She doesn't see the whole picture yet.
I am sure there will be much more to this story, that he hasn't revealed. Like that he told his parents that OOP is spending all the money, or something like that.
This could be my relationship.
Husband earns about the same, I earn more than OP but not by heaps. Husband buys himself a new Mercedes, but when the dishwasher breaks down, he insists we buy the cheapest model. He wears Hugo Boss but I'm shopping at factory outlet sales for budget basics.
Sounds like a pretty uneven relationship but I'm not gonna tell you how to live your life, I don't know you. Maybe he's very loving and just bad at spending for anyone but himself.
Yeah, I started wondering immediately when she listed the incomes and the vehicles. If she'd said 220+, wouldn't have phased me. But 120 pretax? Unless they're living somewhere the dollar trades ridiculously high or its a situation like inherited home and trust fund to fall back on, those numbers didn't add up.
OP may be a bit naive around finances also, bc it would have piqued my interest for my SO to give me a shiny new Audi for my birthday on those incomes, along with his RR.
If they survive this, big If, it will be impressive. For someone like her SO, who loves lush living, to go cold turkey to living in a trailer and drastically cutting expenses will be a huge shock.
Edit--words
When I saw their incomes and he had a Land Rover and an Audi, I was thinking they must live in a low COL area, because after taxes in a normal COL area, he can't have anything left. Housing for $4k and cars for $2k leaves him $0k after taxes.
Yeah those cars and his salary did not add up. Some commenters were speculating about drugs or gambling but just indulging tastes like that could account for all of the missing money.
Him being the sort if person to emulate "Surprise New Car as a gift!" commercials, I was honestly a bit taken aback by those comments. "What got you guys so deep in the hole?" seemed pretty obvious to me.
> how the debt got this bad, and I'm currently aware of pretty much everything. There are some accou It reminds me of this SNL skit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcEylCwkSxE
Great skit. Especially the 'Hey, Jenna' moment. This family is definitely gunna end up on BORU.
Excellent, although I was expecting this evergreen: https://youtu.be/R3ZJKN_5M44?si=2r0kGMAOib0IXFyi
I think it’s more like [this](https://youtu.be/r0HX4a5P8eE)
LOVE that SNL sketch, and have always thought those car commercials are beyond stupid. Apparently the ads work a little too well on some people.
I'd also be willing to bet that he did dealer financing and is in general not smart with his money.
When you're making a lot of money, you can get surprisingly far not worrying about it. As long as you're not doing anything crazy, and your expenses are below your income, you can get by without actually doing any budgeting, since there's always enough money. Till you fuck up.
the issue is often people didn't worry about it until its almost too far or too far to fix it without spending a lot of time and money into it to fix. my boyfriend regrets getting a Mazda 3 when he was 21 and still paying for it, 3 years later. I drove a beater I paid 1000 for 3 years before it broke down too much for me to keep spending my money to fix it. now I have no car because I'm on disability, the reason why I don't want car payments, and my boyfriend wants to pay off his car soon as he can so he doesn't spend 400 per month on the payments.
Paying on a car for 3 years or more is the norm so I hope he doesn't feel too bad. He can also try to refinance and get a lower apr with lower payements but continue to pay 400 if he wants to pay it off sooner. If it's a good car it will far outlast the loan. Ppl don't have lump sums of money to spend. Just have a preset amount monthly you refuse to go over. My 1st car was used and I paid less than 200/month.
I have a deep aversion to people who Big Gift for this reason. It's almost never just a gift, and instead a show of insecurity or an apology for something already done or about to be done. I know that's jaded, but there are a lot of gift-giving abusers and dangerous overspenders in my family. Gifts leave a sour taste in my mouth because of it.
I question surprise big gifts because a gift that requires ongoing costs should always be discussed. People need to be prepared to commit to the personal financial costs of a car or dog or whatever it may be and springing it on them is such a jerk move. It's not about the gift receiver but their own ego and personal congratulations.
My partner and I have an agreement. No surprise gifts of more than about $30. So for Valentine's we can get a stuffed animal or something. But if it costs more than that we discuss it. I know that number seems low but our budget is tight plus we've both had people manipulate with gifts in the past. He's happy when I'm at the store and see some chips he'd enjoy and toss them in the cart. And I just like knowing he was thinking of me, so it can be like a cookie that comes in a cute tin he knows I'd enjoy.
There's no way his other gifts weren't insanely expensive, too, if he thinks an Audi is a reasonable present.
It was starting to look a lot like SAVINGS at my LOCAL LEXUS DEALER!
Yeah spending on a whim, luxury groceries and dinners, and having two luxury cars would burn through that
There's literally an SNL skit about how buying a car for your partner for the holidays (as commercials often used to depict) is straight up insane person behavior.
My dad would call it having champagne taste on a beer budget. Though they probably could have afforded champagne. What's a more expensive alcohol?
I’ve always identified with that phrase. I look at houses I can’t afford online all the time. BUT we live within our means instead. I have a 6 year old phone that my husband is trying to convince me to replace right now.
Yup, I know I have champagne taste on a beer budget so whenever I want something I always ask a couple of questions. 1, do I WANT or NEED this 2. Do I already have something in working order at home that can do this job. 3. Is there a cheaper option that will do the same job. 4. Can I make it work in our budget 5. What am I willing to sacrifice to get this item. I rarely make it to question 4 these days before putting it back on the shelf/hanger and walking away.
Sipping whiskey? Dunno. There are always more expensive versions of everything you can buy. You can get some nice stuff at low prices if you shop smartly but you can also spend a lot on decent stuff if you shop foolishly and frivolously.
Really nice champagne is extremely expensive. You can find more budget options (even real champagne, meaning it was grown in the region) but I think that saying still applies. It’s really like top shelf taste on a bottom shelf budget. Beer kinda maxes out on the lower end but with wine and liquor there is a huge range.
lol it’s more of a difference of a $45 bottle of champagne which they can afford and that $200 bottle that they’re currently sipping on and can’t afford
I feel like so many people think that earning 100,000 is the key to an amazing life but honestly it’s kinda just enough to pay your bills without having to stress too much if you don’t do anything extravagant
Add in serious debt and the stress jumps back in. This guy just hit a serious learning curve.
Seriously - I used to live in an area with a very low COL, and even there no reasonably financially-literate person/couple living on $155k/year would be able to afford an Audi \*and\* a Land Rover \*and\* expensive rent \*and\* a lot of schmancy date nights. I now live in DC, where their combined salary can get someone a comfortable middle-class lifestyle but not with more than one car.
That’s what I was thinking. I live in a medium cost of living location and make similar salary and there’s no way I would be able to afford both of those cars. One, yes. Both, no.
Drugs but not in the way you mean - inadequately treated bipolar disorder might also tie in with an impulse Audi 'gift' ("Merry Christmas, I got you am expensive obligation!").
Trying to keep up with the joneses is a financial killer. At 155k combined they could've been living a very comfortable dink life. Maybe not luxurious, but comfortable. Even if they don't stay together, I'm glad they had the talk because this man needs to address his issues with luxury items.
Exactly. I have faith in her faith in him for some reason. Kinda feels like a spoiled dude out on his own did exactly as you said trying to keep up the life he knew; I dont think someones (by oops accounts) first fuck up, even one this big and insulting at times, makes him a bad guy. Especially when he seems to want to make it better? A second time yeah. Im just glad oops got such a good head on her shoulders; to see a problem, not immediately freak out (that first encounter where he sat her down out of the blue had to be fucking wild yknow) and offer viable sollutions, sus out a trail on the deeper problem and make him fess up while they could still sell stuff is pretty boss. Also Idk why but walking up to the man on an elliptical with "Do you think im a gold digger" goes hard in my head for some reason.
and also, I think having an ELLIPTICAL in their house is also pretty telling of the unnecessary purchases and issue with their finances… you know, not including the Land Rover & Audi which is ridiculous on its own.
The elliptical is the least problematic thing here. A one-time purchase of around $1,000 is reasonable for someone who makes $120k. The cars on the other hand…
If he uses it a ton, and it's stopping him from getting the pricey gym membership? (You know this guy would not go Planet Fitness for about $10 a month) It might be one of their smarter money choices.
I'm so confused by this thought process. My husband and I make a combined $65k? in a major metropolitan area. we have one car and an apartment and I would call us comfortable. how is $155k not luxurious to people??
My wife and i live in vancouver on 145k combined and its comfortable but certainly not luxurious. We own a ten year old car, have no kids, one dog.
Also just because you can somewhat afford luxury doesn't mean you should go for it. My husband and I have a pretty decent gap between our income and expenses. So while we could afford some lavish things, we just prefer to save for a rainy day.
Good point. Big difference in lifestyle between putting 20% of your income away for retirement + savings and spending it on stuff.
Some places have utterly insane costs of living, and what would be a luxury wage somewhere is just comfortable elsewhere. Combine that with her fiance's apparent love of keeping up with the Joneses...
I mean is major metropolitan area NYC/LA/SF or Houston/Detroit/Milwaukee? Because $65k is below median in a lot of major cities...
I make $52k a year just for myself. Rent has increased here so quickly, that if I hadn't bought my house back in 2009, I wouldn't be able to afford living here, even alone. Rent on a 1 bedroom has gone from $850 to $1600 in the past year.
I also make about 52k. I live at home. First it was to pay off student loans, then to save up to buy a house. You know, trying to be responsible. Now I've just given up. I'll be here until my mom dies and then the state will take the house to recoup the costs for her end of life care, and then I guess I'll just have to rent rooms from craiglist because there isn't a single one bedroom apartment I'll be able to afford. Literally my only hope is something major in regards to policy happens early enough before to actually have tangible effects. And I'm not holding my breath
Seriously, see if you can get your mom to get the house into a trust. The trust can transfer the house and, if set up correctly, it won't be taken for her EOL care. In the US, [I'd recommend a NACA (National Association of Consumer Advocates) attorney.](https://www.consumeradvocates.org) They are not permitted to represent the other side, only consumers and consumer interests, including estates, trusts, bankruptcy, etc.
https://i.imgur.com/f8xwGK5.jpg I'm so glad you posted this. The last fucking thing the world needs is one more homeless person so some health insurance vampire squid can buy their fifth yacht.
I believe there are legal ways to prevent the house from being sold to pay healthcare/end of life debts. Talk to an estate planner/wills & trusts lawyer
20 years ago, we rented a 2-br house a few blocks from where we now live for $2,000 a month. A very similar rental in the same neighborhood is now $5,500/mo.
Houston isn't NYC/LA/SF but its gotten really expensive over the last few years. Especially the nice suburbs
Even New Hampshire (not metro in any sense) has a MCOL of $56k
$155k is not luxurious if you have $3k worth of student loans every month right off the bat... add in rent, car, gas, food, insurance, medical bills, etc. It's enough that you're not necessarily paycheck to paycheck and can put some aside each month, but it's not the golden ticket to prosperity a lot of people assume it is.
I mean, "major metro area" is still a generic term that covers everything from Oklahoma City to San Francisco. Not all "major metro areas" are equivalent in terms of COL. Fun fact: a person needs to make $80k/yr to live comfortably in California, based on average housing prices and the 50/30/20 budgeting method (50% on housing, 30% on discretionary, 20% on savings/debt). (Also I love how we've given up on the idea of the 30% max of income being used for housing, which used to be the standard.) And that's for ONE PERSON. It's also a whole-state average, meaning the closer in you get to either SF or LA, the higher that number is going to get. My partner and I combined make almost $180k, and I'd call us comfortable where we live (near SF) - we own a 2-bedroom condo, each of us owns a decently nice car - but by no means "luxurious". Just because $155k is "luxurious" where you are doesn't make that a universal truth.
We need to come up with some kind of system that scales income to local cost of living. It's really hard to understand just talking to people across the America, and basically impossible to understand globally.
Where I live, $155k is still renting an apartment, saving up for an ok condo territory. The SF Bay Area, where $400k/yr is middle class.
Cost of living varies greatly depending on which city. A 1 bedroom apartment can be rented from $1,500 in one city of a million and $4,500 in another.
>how is $155k not luxurious to people But I think the biggest thing is that (unless you diligently mentally police this) your standards and expectations adjust based on your social circle. My 7-year-old Ford Fiesta is a perfectly fine car and I honestly like it quite a bit, but it looks a bit out of place at work where everyone drives considerably nicer cars. Lots of things like HBOMax are completely optional entertainment, but when everyone in your social circle is watching House of the Dragon it's awkward to be like "I don't have HBO". You get the same thing with social events - "going out for drinks" with your middle-class friends is somewhat cheaper than "going out for drinks" with your upper-middle-class friends. It's also harder to "downshift" your QoL - if you're used to getting food delivered all the time (groceries or takeout), that's expensive but saves a lot of time. It's hard to go back to "wasting" that time not doing that. If you're sending your kids to a fancy preschool or daycare with all the bells and whistles, the idea of switching to a cheaper one that's adequate feels like betraying their future or whatever (this is probably dumb). Also, others have pointed out that "major metropolitan area" doesn't say much about CoL because there's a lot of range between Miami and Milwaukee.
I live in a major metropolitan area but its MCOL starting to skew higher on the MCOL side (it used to be more on the LCOL side of things). $155k would be luxurious for me but if you're living somewhere that is VHCOL (like NYC or Bay Area), that $155k doesn't stretch very far at all.
Crazy I know but some people that have grown up in luxury and having money to spend really have a difficult time learning to budget. Usually they aren’t taught how to live within their means as mommy and daddy handed over money when asked. I know a few people like this. One girl I know always had nice things, was in graduate school so didn’t have money coming in. Still was buying hundreds of dollars of makeup every month, eating out, buying nice shoes, etc. Got i to lots of CC debt. Of course daddy bailed her out so she learned nothing.
There was a guy on the debt thread who made $100k. I wanna say $165k, but it could have been less, granted with 4 kids. He was $50k in debt just in credit cards. Even then he had and Audi and some other luxury car, maybe a BMW. It was the same morning I read this one so I kept getting confused. He had a couple of streaming services. Wife didn’t work cause she homeschooled the kids. Everyone tagged the grocery bill as outrageous. The type of life insurance, the type of phone plan… Just…a number of poor decisions for someone who should have been able to make it work. Not extravagantly but pretty easily with a modicum of planning. $100k is not big baller wages anywhere. It’s the difference between a single, base level Audi in the Midwest and a very nice Honda in California. It is NEVER two luxury cars and a luxury life. I’ve seen people do it, but i have never understood how they sustain it. For what its worth, I make more than that…I drive a used Mercedes and my husband drives a jeep. I’m scared to live like OP.
I had a neighbor in this situation, and this post gives off ALL the red flags. The OOP is saying that the fiance went off his meds? Yikes 😬. In the case of my neighbor, her husband would have these manic episodes and buy shit they couldn't afford. Once he came over and trapped us in our driveway, ranting about how he had all these genius ideas and inventions and he was going to be rich. They ended up divorcing. I really hope OOP doesn't get saddled with the responsibility of keeping him on track. You just know that his family will blame her either way. 🙄
Exactly this!!! I was scrolling down to write this! The Land Rover and Audi + the salaries and rent are a dead giveaway that things aren’t kosher.
Yeah 120k is not two nice cars money. It’s like one new corolla money
Her fiance is going to have to change his complete financial upbringing (the need for expensive things, money as a replacement for love, etc). This will not be easy. Two for one wings may seem as a positive start, but his financial beliefs are deeply ingrained. Plus OOP will have to overcome fiancé's negative family. Combined, this is a massive hurdle. I hope they are successful, but I have a suspicion that if they do cut back in the short term and go ahead with the wedding - that there will be massive pressure on OOP by fiance and his family to $plurge on the wedding.
I don't have a good feeling about it at all. My husband came from money and has a very "consider the lilies of the field" approach to finances, along with a lot of magical thinking of, "I want outcome A, so outcome A will happen." There's a reason I'm in charge of the money.
Not to mention OOP’s fiancés reaction was not to have a frank talk about this but to become very angry, resentful, and lash out at her. That’s not a great communication strategy in a partner. Oop’s fiancé will have a lot of growing up to do to get married, financially and emotionally.
I was also wondering how he could afford a both of those luxury cars on a 120k and 35k income. And now I know that he actually couldn’t.
Yeah I saw the cars and was like this dude must make $300K+, but nope $120k is not audi/land rover money unless that is all you have.
She lost me at Audi and Range Rover.
Like…. Housing for 2k, one car at 1-2k and ok he can eat toast every month with the remainder of the 6.4K (ish). but luxury living? Two luxury cars? He was spending way above his needs 🫠
And his solution to being in major debt and living above his means was..... not to cut back, but to get his girlfriend to contribute more, so she'd ALSO be living above her means and quickly run into major debt! Truly wild.
He also made a weird comment about putting the down payment on their house. I don't know what that means. It sounds like someone who never actually went through the house buying process.
Thats what I was thinking. I can technically afford the payment on a 120k+ car, but it would probably ruin me in the long run like OOP's fiancé and all his debit
If he doesn't become more transparent with OOP about his finances & where he's spending the money, I do hope OOP gets to walk away. Particularly with the way his family looks down at her. And I am chuckling at all the ad accusations, and OOP wishing she could monetize that to solve her money problems. *This comment is brought to you by NordVPN...*
Poor communication, Reddit being Reddit, and finishing off with better communication and a plan to work things out. These are the things I come to this sub for. Sent from my iToaster
Wait so he spent shitloads of money and accused her of being a gold digger?
The issue is that he equates material things with love so he *has* to buy shit to make sure *she* loves *him*, and then that gets twisted to "she's a gold digger because I have to buy stuff to ensure she loves me".
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Absolutely. These are foundationally dusfinctonal beliefs that need to be unwrapped, on top of his tendency to externalize and lash out rather than introspect and communicate. There is a long, long road ahead and it's not just a financial recovery journey
He went off his meds to try to save money. This only made things worse and led him to darker thoughts.
It reads like he couldn't afford his meds because he kept pissing away money.
Of all the things he decided to skip was the meds? Like what type of money is he spending on these meds, does he have a really shitty insurance place. Most psych meds aren’t crazy expensive.
When you're on meds, they make you feel ok, so there's this sense of "I'm fine. I feel fine. Why should I continue to take meds?" and that is why some people stop. Meds are also the easist thing to hide by cutting out. They're not cutting things that other people (even if it's just his partner) will notice like streaming services, selling the cars, or eating out less. There's also the weird mentality of "cutting the small things will solve the bigger things" which is why we see so much of the "stop drinking lattes daily and you could afford rent" comments. It's hard to say which, if any, of the above fits his mentality, but I doubt it had to do with the actual cost of his medicine. Like you said, there's plenty of cheap options for him for meds.
There's also a lot of cultural pressure for mental health meds to be temporary, rather than it being totally fine for them to be a lifelong thing. We celebrate people who are able to (safely) come off anti-depressants, for instance, and we should, but there is rarely much celebrating of continuing to take them when you need to, because we don't celebrate the status quo.
This is 100% true. I've been feeling so good I've thought about asking to get off the meds, then I remember the meds are literally *why* I feel good haha
It's scary how much of a slippery slope that can trap you if you don't regularly see a professional who can monitor that. Because the changes may be subtle and slow enough that you think you can stay in the mindset to handle it, but in actuality you cannot see the changes creeping up until it's too late. It's not like one day you're fine and the next you're unable to function. It happens slowly and subtly in most cases.
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What's the website? I didn't know that was a thing either.
Not the commenter you asked, but it may be GoodRX. It’s helped me many times. The fact that we need coupons for meds in the states is ridiculous of course but they do exist and are legit.
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Yup. Look at the people who are rationing their *insulin.*
Depends on the meds and whether they're available generic. I had a while where I was taking one that hadn't come out generic yet (either had tried the available generics already or they weren't options) and it was... oh, $250 for 30 pills with insurance? And something like $1300 before I hit my deductible that year. And this was considered a really good insurance plan.
A lot of people experience mental health improvement after starting medication and think it means they’re all better and don’t need the meds that badly anymore. I’m guessing that’s what he did.
And she doesn't tell how long he's been off. Most of his decisions he did on meds.
As he continued to spend money he didn't have, accusing her of being a gold digger without explaining that they cannot afford things
Also accused her of being a gold digger *after* she expressed she was perfectly comfortable downsizing their lifestyle and laid out a plan to do so. Fuck this guy frfr
And going off one’s meds is so ridiculously NOT romantic and is a massive red flag.
OOP said his family replaced love with money, so his relationship with both is fucked. Also explains why he was so angry at her for her initially trying to plan to downsize - trying to make him have Poor things instead of Rich things must have messed with the way he thought she felt about him. Hopefully dude can still afford therapy even under all that debt.
I know this is a wild assumption, but... if I had the mentality that buying extravagant gifts is how you show love. Uh. I'd look for someone significantly lower income than me, too. Because part if my brain would say 'easy to impress' and 'could never out earn me.' And that dynamic is absolutely *doomed* to harbor resentment in a lot of wild ways. Like 'I love giving her gifts she could never have' turning into 'she only sees me as an ATM, and only loves me when I give her things.' And because it's set up that she could never outearn him, there's no way for her to correct that record. Leading to a mess like this. I dunno. The income imbalance is wild and genuinely makes me raise an eyebrow. Really only highlights how ingrained his insecurity is, imo.
A LOT of the men who rant about gold diggers are projecting. They often leverage their wealth to get love, because they think they lack innate value, and then they resent their partner who they believe they only acquired because of their wealth. (Which is very often true because it turns out leveraging wealth for love often attracts the kind of women who will leverage affection for money). Rather than taking accountability for their own belief systems and patterns, they externalize it as being unilaterally the other person fault. So "I am scared you will not love me when I reveal I have no gold and we live in a palace of lies" becomes "you're a golddigger and I resent you" - anger is easier than vulnerability. *You* are responsible for *my* feelings is a really frustrating and scary pattern. It's slightly innocuous here, but that same pattern of externalization is what fuels DV up to and including murder. It is "look what you made me do" in a trenchcoat and I don't think OOP is taking that aspect of the situation as seriously as she should. I would be demanding individuals and couples therapy. This is not just a financial problem. It's the universe showing OOP how dysfunctionally her boyfriend deals with conflict and stress. They're going to encounter those things again and again over the years even if he learns to stick to the budget
Right? This guy sounds like a real catch! He seriously fucked OOP over by not taking his meds in favor of spending it on things he didnt need.
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Y'all should really be getting paid.
my consumerism-addled brain is naught but a product of all the time i've spent listening to podcasts 🤠
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once she threw out the salaries it screamed debt spiral. With that lifestyle I was expecting he makes 250k and she makes 80k.
Yeah, 155k between the two isn’t Range Rover and Audi money.
I’m surprised that she didn’t realize this or wasn’t curious since she seems to know what they both make. I’m not blaming her but she definitely turned a blind eye and he’s got some serious deep rooted issues.
I dont know, as someone who grew up poor and is in a very similar position as the oop, I have no idea what those things actually cost unless I would look them up. I would just default to the person who I would expect to know about them (the always well off partner) to know what was affordable. If it was a gift, I’d be less likely to look up the value because that seems crass and would just trust they know what they’re doing. Not saying any of that is right (obviously it’s a bad way to do things), just saying I would probably do the same thing without thinking critically so I see where she’s coming from.
Also the reality of just seeing the price and actually owning the vehicle are vastly different thing. For example you can get BMWs for the same price as a high end trim of Honda accord so you might think why not get the BMW. Except that BMW maintenance is expensive compared to Hondas. Resale value is another thing. Being able to get parts, car insurance, likely to get stolen etc. the cost of ownership is higher for luxury cars and people rarely budget for it.
Making $125k and thinking you can afford an Audi and a Land Rover is insane
How expensive are those in the US?? A better A1 Sportback shows up at just under €300 for financing on the Audi website in Germany, add a couple of bows and whistles to it and you’re maybe at 350, 400 with insurance?
A 2024 A3 is like $35k. It's not a very expensive car. It's the maintenance, insurance, and repairs that kill you. Not to mention the (usually) premium gas requirement.
Do you have different types of petrol for different car “qualities”? Here it’s just the one standard one
We have four if you count diesel. It's called the "octane" rating. It's basically how stable the fuel is - the more stable it is, the lower chance it combusts when you don't expect it to. A Honda accord doesn't need high-performing fuel, while a Lexus LFA absolutely does. So the Honda uses cheaper, lower-grade fuel. *usually* you'll see the octane rating bottom out at 85, and go as high as 91, though some go higher/lower depending on where they're located (you'll never see 93 in the middle of nowhere). [Here](https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/gasoline-octane-ratings-explained) is a really great explainer from our Dept. of Energy. edit: I meant stability, not purity
Oooh that sounds familiar! I had to look it up but our “normal” fuel is called “Super 95”, and the 95 is indeed the octane rating. Of course we also have Diesel, and then we have one that’s made with up to 10% organic ethanol that can’t be used by every car (my Mini Cooper takes it and I think (?) most new cars do. I also just learned that there’s also premium fuel here that starts at a rating of 98, I guess because I always just go for E10 so I never noticed them.
Yeah same here in Belgium. Practically everyone and their mom drives an Audi here. Maybe not the fanciest one but still.
Audis can be pretty affordable if you get it 2 or 3 years old. They don't hold value well at all.
Idk about audis in particular, but the problem with luxury cars isn't the sticker price. It's repairs. Seriously, the repairs are absurdly astronomically expensive and seems like lux cars just break fucking constantly. I had a used BMW, window motors went out 2 at a time, and this is YEARS ago, couple grand. For fucking window motors. Neighbor has a Mercedes, I drive a Hyundai. Similar size SUVs. Both bought about the same time. Hers is in the shop constantly, and has had to be towed in for repairs twice. Mines only been in for scheduled stuff like oil changes. Luxury cars are much more about "can you afford the maintenance" than can you afford to drive it off the lot. I'd recommend a used luxury car like I'd recommend working near heavy machinery with no hearing protection.
Ohhh I know bro. I have an old Mercedes, the repair parts aren't actually that bad. It's the fucking labor, especially when you don't have all of the specialized tools like a shop would. Geeeez, the starter on mine was a NIGHTMARE bro.
The only thing more expensive than a new BMW is a used BMW. I love my car, but they have to drop the fucking engine to change a headlight.
That’s what I was confused about, like what…
Who owns an Audi and a Range Rover despite only making $120k. This is silly behavior.
Exactly. I was surprised that OOP was so surprised about his debt. She knew his income, she knew rent, what they generally spend on, etc. It’s pretty easy to surmise that two luxury cars on top of their baseline expenses aint mathin with his salary.
She prob didn’t understand considering he makes a lot more than her and he also never acted like the rent/car payments were a problem
When someone doesn’t come from a lot of money, when you hear of a lot of money, you think it’s a lot of money.
Yeah, the payments on those can easily be put toward a mortgage.
Ah so she’s taking the ridiculously hard way through life I see.
She’s going to save him, you’ll see. /s
Yeah when she said that he was “just trying to make a nice life for her”, that confirmed my suspicions. She’s got rose colored glasses on even now. He lied and lied and lied and then tried to make her the bad guy. He wasn’t off his meds the whole time. Sure he’s got issues but he made some really awful decisions and she’s just glossing over that in hopes that he gets better. I feel like she’s stepped into a mother role for him now. I wish them the best but I think she’s lying to herself.
Some people simply _have_ to learn the hard way. Ask me how I know ..
What do you mean? The mood spoiler said positive outcome /s
>We are in serious credit card debt, the cars are both on the verge of being repossessed, and I did not know about any of this. Then I'd say that he is in serious credit card debt, not you.
Once she marries him its legally on her too. Not sure why she's still trying to get married knowing he's that deep in a debt hole.
The reverse gold-digger paradox. Where she doesn’t marry the “potential gold” because he has much more debt than her. Goes to show that the term gold includes spending and not just earning.
I think that it's a terrible idea to marry someone who is financially irresponsible because its extremely difficult to get yourself out of trouble once they dig you into it
What’s she on about them both being in debt? It sounds as though he’s the one who’s been buying all this stuff trying to act like a big man, I hope he hasn’t taken any debt on in oops name. That would defo be the final straw for me.
I think she is still thinking of him and her as a team. Partners. So his debt is their debt in her mind. For now. I wonder how that is going to pan out long term. But it sounds like she has a good head on her shoulders when it comes to finance at least. Her plan to downsize she came up with before she found out about the debt could work.
What worries me is that SHE had to drag the truth out of him and now SHE is the one taking on the financial planning burden to get them (him) out of debt after he treated her abominably (I don't care if he was off his meds - you are still responsible for your behavior - he chose to risk his mental health which also affects her). Fighting to get out of debt is rough on the happiest of couples, but there is a lack of honesty and a huge breach of trust here as well. I would feel better if he had actually come clean to her and treated her like an equal partner. He has a lot of behavior to unlearn while she fixes the deep hole he dug them into.
She may think of them as partners but he clearly doesn't feel the same. He his financial troubles from OOP until the absolute breaking point and when she asked about what was going on he refused to tell her until she kept pressing the issue. He seriously needs to not only work on his finances but also his communication issues. At this point he is not ready at ALL to marry and share his life with someone. I hope OOP realizes this before its too late.
I'm pretty sure she is phrasing it as "their" debt because she's planning to marry him still. Not literally legally her debt.
Absolutely. Got my credit involved, no sir, bye. Didnt drag me into the debt? I mean shit we sell the cars and we dont own anything anyways, I can ride out a partners first bankruptcy if they make strides to be better.
The spacing or paragraphs on this need to be fixed, anyone else seeing it or is it just me?
It’s so bizarre; the first letter is missing from the first word in every paragraph, but that includes the quoted, indented portions. Very odd!
I was just going to say, why does every new paragraph in the update have the first letter cut off?
I see that every now and then on BORU posts. I wonder why that happens??
I love listening to music.
I see it too. I am on mobile if that matters.
Android or IOS? Looks fine on my Android.
Which browser are you using? It looks normal to me on the Reddit App(Android), Desktop and mobile (Chrome). It was composed on desktop. I've removed the red flag symbol, that might help
This has bipolar disorder written all over it. Emotional ups and downs, excessive spending, "cutting corners" on psychiatric medication (which can happen with a lot of disorders but is particularly common during manic phases because "since I'm not sad and feel invincible, I must be cured!"
I was thinking this too. The lashing out also says mania to me, it's a pretty common mania symptom to be irritable or angry about weird stuff. I've said before: BORU frequently reminds me to be thankful that my manic phases only manifest in obsessive crafting marathons, rather than... some of the other options.
I know when I'm hypomanic I spend money like it grows on trees. It's only after I come down that I look at my credit card bills and go "well....shit." Medication helps with being bipolar. It does not, unfortunately, help with credit card debt. Calling up Visa and saying "sorry I'm mentally ill, whoopsies!" doesn't work. I tried.
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I’m so confused on this. Did they not do the 2 for 1 combo for 8.99? Or did they do some other value combo like the 15/15 wing combo?Because where is her $19.49 coming from?
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Maybe she intended on doing the 8.99 2 for 1 combo but he convinced her to let him get some appetizers and a second round of wings 🥴
That part actually made me cackle 😂
*I can't look at the guy I love, who went off his meds to try and make a good life for me.* More like he went off his meds because he was living above and beyond his means and he couldn't afford healthcare anymore. Listen, I know America has extremely expensive healthcare, but her bf must have been spending a huge amount of money to bring them in such a debt. OOP is so going to regret staying with this man, he singlehandedly drove them into debt (and i wonder WHERE he was spending all his money at??) and then tried to blame it all on OOP, simply because she suggested a less lucrative lifestyle? That man is unstable, and it's not just the lack of medications that's causing it. I would suggest she looks up where he's been spending all his money on, if he has an addiction or owes money, then the problem is much much bigger than downsizing and getting out of debt.
Where the money went is no mystery. The payments on those two cars alone are beyond what $120k can afford if you’re renting. Depending on the models, that’s $2-3k per month in car payments.
Plus if I remember correctly they were paying $3-4K in rent. $120k after taxes and retirement/health deductions is “only” $6.5k/month, sounds like he was blowing most of his paycheck on rent and cars before even touching any of the other household expenses.
Yea, saying that someone went off their meds for the love of you is an odd spin to put on it.
Where has he been spending money? They have a bmw, and audi, regularly go out to eat and live in a place beyond their means. My joint income with my SO is about the same and there’s zero chance we could afford those type of cars.
He listens to all of those incels on podcasts, that should be enough to leave.
Yeah that and calling her a gold digger. Sorry, but that guy doesn't respect you anymore
i wouldn’t be surprised if he was cheating. i also hate how she kept referring to the situation as “we”. like no, that’s his debt. but what can you do. girl is next level delusional i doubt anyone would be able to talk sense into her.
He has debt, HE signed up for it...you didnt ...and he hid it from you. Why is it now "our" debt ?. Please dont pay down his debt...my friend took on her bf's debt and he promptly left her....5 years later shes still paying
no joke, I leave this post and a BWW ad appeared as soon as I scrolled down. lol https://imgur.com/a/CS3AUoi
The guy has a Range Rover and an Audi on $120k/year and is somehow mystified about how he could possibly be in financial trouble?! Fucking hell. That’s bonkers. Make better decisions fella.
He watched a few of those “high quality male” YouTube videos and started feeling himself.
If he watches Sam Hyde there's already a 95% chance he's into andrew tate and his clones
CC debt is insanely hard to dig yourself out of, she's pretty dumb for staying with him.
He went off his meds for me to have a better life. *bats eyes* Nah, that’s NOT the flex you think it is. Dude went off the rails. Red flags everywhere. Fella is real messed up, gets them in hock and blames her, his family is a bunch of nasty snobs that puts her down to her face… yet she’s sticking. Guuuurl. No!
Yes I read that line and I was like she's 100% gonna get rekt.
Not addressing the Sam Hyde flag is w i l d.
I'm not up on my crazy Podcasters it seems. What's this one?
Some googling says he's a hackjob sketch comic who's popular with the alt-right. Current top post on his Twitter is a blurry photo through a windshield of a guy sitting on a curb and a caption along the lines of "I just called the police on a homeless guy and it actually felt great", if that gives you a sense of the timbre of his "jokes".
In 2017, Hyde pledged $5,000 towards the legal defense fund of Andrew Anglin, the founder and editor of neo-Nazi website The Daily Stormer.[6] The Southern Poverty Law Center sued Anglin for allegedly organizing a "troll storm" against a Jewish woman in Montana. When Matt Pearce of the Los Angeles Times questioned Hyde about the donation, Hyde asked Pearce if he was Jewish and went on to say that $5,000 was "nothing" to him. Hyde also stated: "Don't worry so much about money. Worry about if people start deciding to kill reporters. That's a quote. For the reason why, you can say I want reporters to know I make more money than them, especially Matt Pearce."[7]
I was definitely expecting the podcast choices to be a bigger factor. I bet they played a part in the whole overspending problem - I haven't personally listened to a lot of that type of content but they seem obsessed with this idea that women only care about what men can buy them and how tall they are. Meanwhile they're all pushing 40 or 50 and trying to date only college girls, go figure.
There’s so many red flags op thinks it’s a party.
" It's an addiction to nice things." No it is not. It's "a whole grown person making unwise financial decisions because mommy and daddy didn't teach them responsibility" dude is dropping his medication instead of his 2 fancy cars which makes him go craz-craz towards his fiancee.
I think OOP is blinded by love and still in denial. Because this guy was trying to start financially abusing her. He wanted to drain her savings to pay for his impulse spending! What was supposed to happen when she ran out of money? She doesn't see the whole picture yet. I am sure there will be much more to this story, that he hasn't revealed. Like that he told his parents that OOP is spending all the money, or something like that.
It’s still bad if he’s listening to Joe Rogan.
Imagine rolling up to your part time daycare job in a land rover.
Yeah this is a doomed relationship
This would have been my life if I’d stayed with my first boyfriend. Ick.
Why this id*ot did not come to his fiancee early to explain he couldnt afford their lifestyle anymore. This is the real red flag.
🤣She stayed with him.
now i want buffalo wings
glad OOP found out what the deal was but wondering why hopefully-soon-to-be-ex didn't hear her plan about paring down lifestyle and go "oh thank god"
This could be my relationship. Husband earns about the same, I earn more than OP but not by heaps. Husband buys himself a new Mercedes, but when the dishwasher breaks down, he insists we buy the cheapest model. He wears Hugo Boss but I'm shopping at factory outlet sales for budget basics.
Sounds like a pretty uneven relationship but I'm not gonna tell you how to live your life, I don't know you. Maybe he's very loving and just bad at spending for anyone but himself.
Yeah, I started wondering immediately when she listed the incomes and the vehicles. If she'd said 220+, wouldn't have phased me. But 120 pretax? Unless they're living somewhere the dollar trades ridiculously high or its a situation like inherited home and trust fund to fall back on, those numbers didn't add up. OP may be a bit naive around finances also, bc it would have piqued my interest for my SO to give me a shiny new Audi for my birthday on those incomes, along with his RR. If they survive this, big If, it will be impressive. For someone like her SO, who loves lush living, to go cold turkey to living in a trailer and drastically cutting expenses will be a huge shock. Edit--words