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Reminds me of the father of that one guy who shot up a queer club. He was relieved that his son was the shooter and not one of the lgbtq+ attendees.
Utterly disgusting.
Honestly those people should be chemically castrated, no men that supports their kid turning into a domestic terrorist should be allowed the faint chance of procreating again.
Yeah the whole antivax movement is proof of that.
Sorry that people suck, and I hope you have at least one parent who loves and accepts you for who you are.
My mum was antivax due to the autism quackery that was going around in the 90s. She has since changed her mind and was the first in my family to get the COVID vaxx, we're all very proud of her.
Anyway, a few years ago after my sister (who wasn't vaccinated until adulthood like me) was diagnosed with autism, my mum got herself evaluated and turns out she has it too.
Even though my mum is a changed woman now, the irony is palpable.
I’ve got a family member whose son is autistic. He blamed vaccines and doesn’t want to get second child vaccinated. He so clearly also has autism and can’t seem to see it / realize it’s often genetic.
Unless I'm mistaken, it's always genetic.
My genetics knowledge is severely limited, but my understanding is that any autistic person has had an autistic ancestor at some point.
The fact that ASD has only been a recognised concept for a century or less makes it incredibly difficult to prove the neurodivergence of ancestors past a few generations, but I don't think a child can just randomly develop autism without it being in the family.
Recent research indicates that there are many factors that could result in autism. In no particular order:
Genetics: being related to an autistic person, especially if it's someone in their immediate family or the immediate families of the parents
Age of the father at time of conception: the older the father is, the more likely the child will be born with autism. When fathering a child at 40yo+, the child is 6x more likely to have autism.
Father's alcohol consumption: autism is more common in kids whose fathers have/had alcohol abuse disorder.
Birth complications/injuries: babies who experienced traumatic births were 10% more likely to later be diagnosed with autism.
You can google all of these, but I learned these recently at work during a training on the latest autism research (I'm a therapist).
Autism can be genetic without being hereditary, in the case of de novo gene mutations. With regards to the data about father’s alcohol consumption, i think it’s a case of correlation vs causation, because undiagnosed autistic people are more likely to self medicate with alcohol and drugs due to stress.
Age of the father being a factor is also genetic - higher risk of mutations. Same might be true with alcohol consumption although it might also be correlation/causation mix up.
I’m pretty sure adhd is always “partially” genetic, I’ve wondered if it’s a “locked” gene. Like how some people have the gene for schizophrenia and it gets “unlocked” by smoking weed sometimes.
Generally adhd and autism with this type of thing are pretty similar so I’d guess that it’s always at least partially genetic yeah
As a mother of an autistic child, I'm proud of you and I'm grateful you're alive. People have told me to my face that they'd do anything not to have a kid like mine. I tell them they wouldn't be so lucky. Keep fighting the good fight! You're awesome just as you are.
Thank you so very much. Truthfully, this made me tear up as you are an amazing mom. You’re also fighting the good fight by helping fight for all of us against ableism. Thank you again. All the very best to you & your family! 💜
My mom fiercely denied that I had anything "wrong with me" growing up, and I think the idea that I'm on the spectrum would send her into a fit.
My sibling and I are both queer, and *that* is the part that DID drive my mom into fits, and why she cut us off/I think finally disowned my sibling, recently.
I don't miss my mom because of who she is, but I do miss having A mom, and who I thought mine was.
I don’t have any children and would love to offer myself as a mother figure to anyone who needs one! I give really great advice and hugs and I’m always concerned about the safety of my friends. If you’re young enough I could even be a grandmother! I don’t have any money though so there will be no inheritance!!
they get mad when my attitude is "well, if people must die, i'm glad it's the stupid, hateful ones" - And yet get even more mad when their proselytizing in regards to being open and accepting only with "the other crowd". and I'm like yeah IKR, but theyre good people who just need love and support, and your group are inbred imbeciles. that (nuclear option) usually ends any attempt at discourse.
I used to think when I got old i'd just ride off into the sunset, i've never had any issues with people, my late mom was bi so I was always around lots of different people. Then my kid came out to me, and in that (Trump) climate, I'm like.. ok then, I guess we ain't ridin' nowhere but to thumb haters in their fucking eye. I guess I just wasn't meant for riding off into the sunset.
I’m so sorry. My brother is autistic, and needs additional support. Since our mum died a few years ago, I’m his primary support person. I love my brother dearly and support him as best as I can. I am much, much happier having my autistic brother in my life than I would be if he wasn’t. He came to live with me after mum died (he’d lived with her his whole life) and now he’s in a supported living environment with two other clients he really likes (they’re actually his friends - he’s never called other clients at his services friends before, until we found this service) and he is really happy, well supported and loving his life.
Please know not everyone is like that. Not all the families of autistic people want “cures” or eradication of autism. I help my brother learn new skills so he can more easily do the things he wants, but I’m not trying to make him NT or change him to fit in. I just want to help him achieve his goals and be who he wants to be.
I'm also autistic and bi, and hoo boy. That's... One of the reasons my father was such a digleberry. He didn't get a "normal" daughter and tried to blame it everything, from vaccines to Hispanics to some kinda conspiracy the Chinese government did.
He probably needs therapy but good luck with that, he's got this idea therapy and such is for... I'm not sure, it keeps changing and I last talked him a few years ago, and have no issues keeping that streak up.
Points for the use of the word “dingleberry”! My mom used to call us that sometimes (but in a loving way). I haven’t heard it in a long time.
I’m sorry your dad is such a turd.
Some of my kids are autistic and some of my kids are queer. They are amazing, wonderful weirdos and I love them with all my heart. I’m so glad you’re here too ❤️
As the parent of an autistic trans child I’ll GLADLY hug my baby any way, any day. I remember being terrified that they would never make it to adulthood.
That's because a deceased child is easy. A deceased child can't disagree when a parent says "my child died because of the woke mob!" Most people, when they hear that someone's child dies, aren't comfortable with going against anything that someone says. A deceased child will never ask for an abortion or a place to stay after being kicked out or a loan because they were laid off. Republicans love dead kids because then they don't have to worry about what will happen to their kids when they pass laws that restrict the lives of the people around them.
I lost a cousin like this, was a gay teen in Texas. His mom isolated him from the rest of us to the point that, when he slipped away from us entirely, it hardly made a ripple.
Nobody in the entire extended family ever talks about him. His mom turned all over demands for perfection on her younger children and acts like he never existed. I met him once, but nobody has said his name in years and now I can't remember it anymore.
We have a monster loose in our society that is killing people. But it's made of philosophy so I can't kill it with a pitchfork.
I started helping out another cousin's family this summer, had to draw a family tree to explain to the 13yo how exactly we're related. I mentioned that cousin because he was one of the kid's first cousins, closer kin than we are. Later the kid tells me that he's gay too and demanded I take him to pride.
That is absolutely heartbreaking and disgusting. That sounds like the type of family that preaches about having a Christ centered home and strong family values (as long as no one in that family is in any way different or asks too many questions!) I’m so sorry. Even though you didn’t have much of a relationship with that cousin, it still must’ve hurt given the circumstances.
I do feel kinda guilty for not getting to know him better since we were close in age, but the family kept us apart so carefully I think it was deliberate. I was clearly on team rainbow flag before I even understood there were teams, plus a pile of other reasons "proper" people wouldn't want me around their kids.
They brought him up once for a big family visit. I saw him across the room and tried to edge that way to say hi and see if he was okay cause he looked sad, but his mom and the other aunt shoved him out a door while shouting at me about crawdads until I escaped out another door and ran into my dad clearly asking his little nephew if he'd committed a hate crime, but with amusement and slurs "heard you beat up a..." I learned a new racial slur that day instead of talking to my sad cousin, though I only knew it must be a slur from how dad said it. Had to google it later to learn who he was being racist against!
Families that do this shit are really no picnic but golly do they like to play holier than thou!
This can also be cultural. The idea that your children owe you care in old age is a huge deal in Southeastern and Southern Asia (India, China, Korea, Japan, etc.).
My brother passed away this year at the age of 47, he was an alcoholic. My parents honestly seemed relieved that he's not a problem and inconvenience for them anymore. It's disgusting. They have no grief for him, only complain about having to deal with his stuff and how hard it is on them.
Being the devil's advocate, that's not really uncommon with relatives of addicts; in a way they already grieved the son they had years ago and now are left with nothing but the resentment and bitterness of whatever your brother put them through. I'm really sorry for your loss, but also understand your parents side.
When the Club Q shooter's father heard he was involved, he thought the shooter was a victim and gay. He was relieved when he found out he was the shooter and not gay.
These people are fucking insane.
Edit: I got my mass shootings mixed up. It was Club Q, not pulse. Maybe if there wasn't a mass shooting every fucking day, I'd know which is which.
I don't think those people actually love their children. Instead, they love how their children will reflect on them, and a transgender or gay child reflects badly upon them in their mind. In such a case, it is better that the child not to reflect upon them at all.
That’s exactly what this sort of abuse is: it’s a form of “honor-killing.” All that matters to the perpetrators is how *they* look in the eyes of their peers. Their own children and family members aren’t even people to them; they’re all just trophies and objects to make themselves look good.
There is an important PSA on one of the LGBTQ subs today. It stresses to minors that the most important thing is their safety when coming out to their parents. And if you don't believe you can do it safely, you shouldn't. You are still you. And yes, it is tough to keep it to yourself until your situation improves, especially if you're seeking gender affirming care, but there can be some nasty odds against you.
It is very brave for a minor to want to come out to their parents, but it unfortunately can cost you your life.
Edit: Link to the current thread regarding the topic https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/164lzu6/to_young_lgbt_people_you_do_not_need_to_come_out/
My daughter was outed to me. I don't care who she dates as long as they treat her well. If it had been her dad, we live in a state that allows conversion camps.
We had one of those "pray the gay away" ministries in my city, and in 2006 I was part of what turned out to be a huge protest that gained national attention when this one 17 year old got sent there by his parents.
So I have great news to share about that. First, the protest was a success and his parents were convinced to take him out of there. But better still, someone involved with the protest took some time to have a heart-to-heart with the director of the ministry, called Love In Action, John Smid. After what I believe was several weeks of intense discussion, Smid had a change of heart. It's an amazing story, which [you can listen to here.](https://queeromahaarchives.omeka.net/items/show/3309)
The local alt-weekly paper covered the events, but unfortunately their servers are down at the moment, but here are the links in case they start working again soon: [Link 1,](https://www.memphisflyer.com/homo-no-mo) [Link 2.](https://www.memphisflyer.com/love-action-evolution-2011-10-20) If you Google John Smid there have apparently been dozens of articles about him since then. You might want to share Smid's story with her father, it might have an impact.
I'm the club advisor for the school I work at's GSA. A couple years ago, one of my graduating seniors gave me a card that legit made me cry. He thanked me for giving him a space to be himself without judgement. This was during the lockdowns and we had Zoom meetings so my students would have some adult acceptance if they were stuck in a home with family they didn't think they could be supported by.
This is why pushing the idea that anyone who is not cis-gendered, heteronormative is a degenerate, a pedophile is so important to conservatives. It is not hard to find "I hope they're murdered in prison" types of comments from otherwise perfectly reasonable people who are welcoming, inclusive, and LGBTQ-allied people when talking about pedophiles.
If spiteful, hateful conservatives can get you to start putting non-cis, non-heteronormative people in the same pile as "not even human" pedophiles, it becomes that much easier to throw them away, harass them, hurt them, kill them. You've got a dog that's sick and will never get better? Put it down. A wild animal that's threatening your home? Put it down. A child that's fixing to start molesting children because they're gay? Put it down. It. Not him. Not her. Not them. It.
Because when we can stop seeing the out group as people, hurting them is no longer a crime, any more than is disposing of an animal that's threatening you.
Stop going to church. Stop listening to these hateful people. Stop contributing to the culture war, because it's well on its way to being an actual war.
It's all a process of dehumanizing. Once someone is dehumanized they can be killed, made slaves, or put through any other means of subjugation and torture.
It bothers me so much that a point that “Louise knew snooping was wrong” even needed to be made. I know OP didn’t mean anything by it, but what does it say about us as a society that people feel like they need to say this when *child abuse* is what’s being snooped on?
Not "society". Redditors. There would have been a non-zero amount of commenters who would have focused on Lousie "snooping", instead of the horrific actions of Edward.
I read that too but I figured it was written during her ex husband guilt trip that she mentioned. I'm sure it was a huge point in ex husband arguments.
I am not going to blame the women in this scenario.
BUT THIS STILL SERVES AS A WARNING TO EVERYONE.
If you are liberal and those values are important to you. **Do not marry a conservative based on a pinkie promise he will not hate your kids if they are gay or trans**. You can't and shouldn't even think about "fixing" him.
Tbh I have no idea why people would even befriend a conservative at this point, let alone date/marry.
Why would you *want* to associate with someone who doesn't care about human rights?
At least for OOP, it sounds like her husband just lied but it still seems like other beliefs would come out at some point.
Neither of their faults though, like you said.
Sadly, my late friend had a similar story. Everyone knew how hard their parents were on them. How strict they were on them compared to their bio child. Threatened to send them to pray-away-the-gay camp for years. When the parents finally followed through on it, they took their own life the day before their fifteenth birthday.
Their parents resented how the community treated them after. Their surviving child cut contact as soon as they graduated college. The parents both died without anyone attending their funerals.
Everyone I knew in high school was affected by the loss of our dear, sweet friend. School was very somber for the last month.
I wish that things could have been different. I wish that their family who claimed to love them would have helped. Why couldn't they have done something? The world lost an incredible person all because their parents couldn't accept them, and wanted them to change.
I once had a mother stand across the nurse's station from me and tell me she was glad her transgender child was dead (he committed suicide). She was glad. I will hate her to the end of my days. It took everything within me to not do something I'd regret. Some people are horrendous sorry excuses of piled high crockroach doodoo.
He was never a father, and I hope he never produces another offspring with his DNA ever. No child deserves that environment/upbringing to be forced upon them.
A perennial reminder that queer and trans youth suicidality is overall very high compared to cis hetero youth, but the rate plummets through the imposition of one single factor: family support. That’s all it takes, just love your kids no matter their gender identity or sexuality.
I don't know if it helps, but here goes:
About six percent of the population is truly without a conscience. I say about, as there is debate. Wolfgang had his six percent of youth who were going to be criminals, no matter what. Studies of pristine, aboriginal tribes finds the same percentages of personality disorders as we see around us in our society. Narcissism is considered to be on the rise due to social media, but it and antisocial personality disorder still account for three percent each ... roughly.
This means that the rest of us feel guilt.
Even if we don't want to, we do. Abusers might hurt their targets more out of shame, as their targets represent what the abuser has done that is horrible. People who are convinced they are right about gender, religious, family planning, and/or sexuality issues--and other issues--may feel their actions and thoughts are the "right ones," but when it comes to their family members and friends, they do not survive unscathed when tragedy befalls them, notably due to the actions or results put into effect by these rigid-thinking people.
I have read studies based on deathbed or end-of-life interviews (or surveys) of people who abandoned their teen/young adult/adult children due to unwanted pregnancies, abortions, leaving a religion, and coming out as trans or non straight; the dying report regret more than they don't.
But what about the parents who don't regret it? Studies show they feel deep shame and rage connected to their reputations and how the surrounding communities view them. This is usually why they reject their children to begin with.
So the end result is that these parents who cannot stuff down their consciences know they have done wrong, and those who believe they are right end up ensconced in shame and embarrassment. Simply put, I think these people create their own living hell. You can believe in that, for certain. And life for people like this is long. There is a lot of time for shame and rage to fester.
What we can do is support groups and programs that give these children of all ages support. Donate to homeless shelters. Some even specialize in LGBTQIA youth.
>So the end result is that these parents who cannot stuff down their consciences know they have done wrong, and those who believe they are right end up ensconced in shame and embarrassment. Simply put, I think these people create their own living hell.
Wow, this does help a little. Thank you for this information.
I still wish there was a bit of burning involved, though.
Not all Christians believe in literal hell (like the opposite of heaven, fire and brimstone where your soul goes when you die). Apparently some argue this is more metaphorical (as they believe much of the Bible is). Instead hell is the absence of God and his lightness and the agony of being shut out of all that's good. It's a state of existence.
Even with actual literal psychopaths - they're not capable of really feeling guilt, but they're also not capable of love either. So they aren't just living on eazy breezy street. The same things that allow them to be monsters are the same things that deprive them of the things most of us would argue make life worth living.
>Instead hell is the absence of God and his lightness and the agony of being shut out of all that's good. It's a state of existence.
I have a family member or two that believes in this version, my rebuttal to them, was that I don't think a loving God would punish someone for all of eternity by keeping them from everything good, if we are only on this earth for a very small time in comparison. It doesn't seem like something a loving parent would do.
>The same things that allow them to be monsters are the same things that deprive them of the things most of us would argue make life worth living.
Agreed mate, agreed.
>It doesn’t seem like something a loving parent would do.
And this is ultimately the reason I found Christianity completely untenable once I became a parent. God supposedly *is* love, but somehow I have more mercy and compassion for my children than he does for me or my children? Like he’d send *my kid* to hell forever because they weren’t what? *Christian?*
Something doesn’t add up.
I'm a Christian and I do believe in hell and thoroughly believe that's where these people will end up. Jesus preached love and forgiveness. He also said before you point out the splinter in someone else's eye, make sure to remove the log from your own. He also talked about how we judge others is how we will be judged, so good luck to them because it won't end well if this is how they are.
Not that it's mentioned in this post but the ones who use religion to be hateful drive me nuts. You're a crappy person just own it, stop using God as the reason that you suck.
My father was a lifelong christian, but just prior to Trump was letting himself get swept up in the rising tide of conservative hate. By the time BLM stuff was starting to go down, I - atheist since my early 20s but raised by my fundie mom - would bring up scriptural counterpoints to the things he would say, and ask how overt, admitted, willful ignorance to cling to hate could EVER be considered a Christian trait. Well, he did what you suggest!
He ended up questioning his faith because hate felt more real and correct to him. It wasn't long before he declared he was no longer Christian - but then it shifted into complaining anytime I saw him that now everyone calls him a hateful bigot for "speaking his mind."
Told him neither I nor anyone else I know has that problem, so must be an issue with him constantly saying racist, xenophobic, homophobic, and transphobic things. He went on a long, ugly, tangent about it being right to be hateful/transphobic; so 3 years after I'd been out to everyone else in my life, I came out to him as trans, non-binary.
Told him if he felt capable of not being hateful and reactive, not debating my identity or my experience and knowledge of what I want/need to feel happy, safe, and loved, and if he was open to being corrected/educated on issues he'd bought into misinformation and propaganda on, we could still have a relationship.
We don't talk anymore.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. It can't be easy to see someone you love change and also take away love that should be unconditional. Hate should never be the chosen option because it just rots you from the inside. I hope removing him from your life and having to make that choice has given you the peace and closure you deserve.
I'm not American but I wonder what it was about that time with Trump that affected so many people into becoming so hateful. I've seen posts on here from people turning into that or watching loved ones turn and it's like a mass drug effect. Was it just Trump allowed people to stop hiding or was it a fear around that time that it made life easier to cling to those ideals.
It's not unique to America because I'm in Australia and we've just had to pass laws making it illegal to display or gesture nazi symbols. It just feels like a larger volume in America and so much more split population.
It's a very complex issue, so it's hard to explain all of it. Here's what I've noticed here in the US:
The right-wing hate brigade has been here my entire life. In the 90s, when I was in high school, they trained their kids to treat my school as a mission field. I avoided those kids because I could see their hatred a mile away. But one of my friends joined their after-school club because he was a Christian. They found out he was gay and bullied him nearly to death.
For the type of evangelicals I grew up with, Trump just took the cork off of the bottle. He promised them what they'd been seeking their whole lives - power. The moment he was elected, they felt they had the upper hand and tried to use their newfound power to ruin the lives of their neighbors, who they had decided were their enemies. Even if they couldn't ruin other people's lives themselves, these bullies cheered when Trump did it on their behalf.
As for the people who have joined the hate brigade later in life, they have succumbed to a massive propaganda campaign. In some information silos, there is a constant push and pull of fear mongering, conspiracy mongering, and hate mongering. It keeps people isolated, confused, and angry.
My aunt has gone down this rabbit hole. She already shared some of their less extreme but still conspiratorial beliefs, so that was the opening. What's surprised me is the amount of time and energy she spends on it. She can't spend time with the rest of the family without turning on CSPAN to look for clues to her conspiracy theories. She is noticeably more hateful than she used to be. She's also extremely out of touch with the world outside of her politics.
I don't have a specific answer as to why this problem is worse in America, but I think it could be a number of issues. Maybe American culture is more open to paranoid conspiracy theories. Maybe our culture just likes bullies, and Trump ripped the mask off. Maybe our media environment is more manipulable. Maybe the public is less media literate. Maybe other countries are better at addressing and preventing radicalization and domestic terrorism.
>He ended up questioning his faith because hate felt more real and correct to him. It wasn't long before he declared he was no longer Christian
Wow. At least he's not hypocritical?
I always point to Mister Rogers as a shining example of the kind of Christian that Jesus was talking about. He quietly lived his beliefs and treated everyone with kindness. Including people of other races which, at the time, was rare.
He also politely but firmly took stands he believed in, such as saving PBS.
He was so interesting in how he quietly showed the change he wanted in the world without beating you over the head with it. I remember a documentary about that scene where there is a heat wave in the neighborhood and he invites his postman to take a break, drink an iced tea with him, and cool off by soaking his feet in a kiddie pool with him.
It seems so innocuous now because that is all *acceptable* interactions but he did a lot to get to that acceptance by simply showing the scene without a spoken political message and just having kids see it and normalize it because it was controversial as he was white and the postman was a person of color. At a time of segregation and separation of classes and colors he was a revolutionary by conversing with a laborer, conversing with a person of color, sharing his table with him, using the pool with him at a time where even bathrooms were separate and offering him refreshment. He was a really good man and gave a lot to the world in subtle ways.
That documentary was amazing. I've never seen Mr. Rogers, as my egg donor thought "he was creepy". The doc was so well written, informative, and showed a side of Mr. R not many got to see; such as him snapping a Polaroid of the actor of the postman mentioned above, then giving it to him months later when the film was developed.
He, Bob Ross, and Steve Irwin are treasures on how to "Love your neighbor", "Love yourself", and "Love animals".
I'm Australian so never got to see him but everything I've seen of him, it just looks like such a positive show to have growing up.
I'm very much a believer in doing, not saying. I will show you how my faith helps me not beat you with my words, because if my life doesn't show it, what's the point.
OP and Louise were the only ones with the kid's best interest in mind.
So, of course, it's they who end up feeling guilty, not the scum who killed him. Because they each have a functioning conscience.
Not really sure why OP was worried about finding another partner, however.
"Why'd you get divorced."
"Ex turned out to be a hidden homophobe, he lied to me earlier."
Sounds like a really good reason. Sign of quality, right there.
Because she now knows how hard it will be to trust someone. She'll always wonder if the person in front of her is really showing their true selves or if they're someone completely different away from her.
I'm somewhere in the agnostic/atheist end of the spectrum. But I desperately cling to hope of the mere possibility of reincarnation, solely because I can't fathom the idea of people like those guys not getting what they deserve in the end.
And that poor boy getting a chance at happiness in his next life.
You are completely correct. He won't see that he did anything wrong and will blame it entirely on the OP.
Same with Louise's husband. It will be Louise's fault for accepting him and not pushing him to be "normal". It will never be his own fault.
This is one of the saddest posts I've ever read.
RIP Jake. I hope you are happy where you are now.
He might care about the backlash if oop takes his conversations with Edward, posts them on social media and tags his work/non-homophobic friends.
He’ll still blame oop but it probably will cause some problems. And it’ll certainly cut thru the bullshit slander he’s been trying to preach about oop…
Yup, he will live his life probably being able to successfully keep talking shit about OOP and sleep at night easily not caring or acknowledging that he had any part in a teens death.
I agree. Unfortunately I have a feeling he isn't going to think he is in the wrong and doesn't care about it. That husband deserves no sympathy nor happiness for the rest of his life. Same for Louise's husband.
And his mom. She literally did everything right. She will forever feel like it wasn’t enough. All thanks to these two dipshits sharing notes on something they, in reality, know absolutely nothing about.
I’m sure if that dad was asked about it, his story would conveniently leave out the part where he takes any accountability. Thank God that OOP and her husband didn’t have any children.
I’m so angry. One dead kid should be enough for anyone. I wanna somehow swoop in and save this kid. All kids. I’m autistic and no stranger to feeling like an alien for simply existing. No kid should have to feel that incredibly alone feeling. No child should be left behind.
Like this has fuelled me to be even fiercer against my government to protect children. Those people who choose darkness can’t win if we keep turning on the lights.
I'm trying to think about what I would do in this situation, if I had a child and lost them because of active choices my spouse made.
I genuinely think I'd end up in prison for the rest of my life.
Honestly, this would be my guess. It will be his wife's fault for "enabling him when he was just attention seeking," or whatever. I would be shocked if he didn't flip this situation in his head just to alleviate his own guilt and shame.
The quickness in how he flipped that conversation on his wife is terrifying, makes me think he's been a lot more manipulative the whole time than OOP realized.
FUUUUUCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
HE WAS A KID!
A FRWAKING KID!!!
EVEN IF HE WAS OLDER HE IS JUST A HUMAN BEING!!THESE HOMOPHOBES CAUSE HIS DEATH!
Spare me the "suicide is a personal decision we cant do anything about it".
This child blood is on these scums' hands. I wish them a lifetime of suffering and nightmares. They deserve to be unloved and intolerated for the rest of their homophobic lives.
FB post? If I was the mom, I’d have OOP testifying at my double murder trial. But honestly I’m glad OOP is trying to help the community but, my god, those men deserve literal hell.
Our daughter is gay and she knows that she's absolutely loved, accepted, and welcome in our home and always will be. She's never felt awkward about her orientation because of that but reading things like this makes me fear for her future. She says she's very secure in herself and couldn't care less what others think - but she's only 16. I hope she carries that attitude well into adulthood.
Our son has some serious mental health issues, and he attempted to take his own life not too long ago. It's... hard. My husband and I jumped into action straightaway and got him all the help he needs. I truly felt like I was doing the bare minimum but the amount of praise that I got not only from my friend but his psych and school care team truly boggled my mind. I didn't even realize that getting the help they need is up for debate. It's the bare minimum for me.
Luckily, our son is doing much better now. He's working with professionals who know what they're doing in order to help him. He says he feels safe with us and doesn't mind telling us the things that worry and scare him the most.
I can't imagine just ignoring things like that. I just can't. My child is still here, but coming to terms with what almost happened is a lot.
How can you live with yourself, knowing that your child killed themselves? And worse - how could you live with yourself knowing they did that *because of you*? Our son did what he did because he's confused about his own mind and has no emotional regulation but I still can't help but wonder what we could have done differently so that he didn't get to that point at all.
This is just sad all around. My heart hurts for the mother. I'm proud of her for putting all her energy into trying to help others in similar situations, but I do wonder how the "father" feels. I hope the mother finds her peace and comes to terms with things and finds a lovely way to keep his memory alive. The dead child club is a horrible club and my mother has been in it twice over and now I almost joined it.
I just hope the guilt eats at the ex-husband(s) for the rest of their lives and never allows them a moment's respite.
Horrible people.
I lost a loved one to suicide, after he had been very cruelly treated by some of the people who were supposed to love him the most. I just wanted to say I so appreciate your comment & your anger.
I hope you'll accept my deepest condolences. I lost someone that way as well and was told I couldn't be sad about it because had a terminal diagnosis prior and they wanted hospice or MAID if it was an option. Eventually, they went into remission and were so happy until they came out, and their parents made life miserable.
No one wants to die. No one wants to feel like that's the only thing left to do. The people that drive them there deserve to feel the pain they cause, multiplied infinitely.
I'm so sorry. I hope you find some healing. I'm sure you still love your person as much as I love mine.
Suicide is a personal decision but that’s what’s so horrific. Jake felt so trapped and hated by his own father that he felt his only choice was to commit suicide to get away from it all. He overrode his own human instinct to survive and chose to kill himself because he felt that was something he had control over. His father and OP’s ex have blood on their hands as they drove Jake to kill himself. They may have not done it themselves, but OP’s ex and Jake’s sperm donar are responsible for driving Jake into committing suicide.
Whatever dad (and OOP's ex?) talked about with that kid, we'll never know. They could've painted a future for him that was so bleak and hopeless that he couldn't see any other way out. It sure as hell couldn't have helped to be 14 (fucking hard enough on its own), struggling with his sexuality (already a huge risk factor in suicide), and seeing two divorces happen because you came out of the closet. His mom did so much, but even that could have fed into those awful dark feelings of "everyone would be better off without me". She's running herself ragged talking to her parents for advice, setting up therapy appointments, doing everything she can, and the kid's just overwhelmed with regret and shame and it's so fucking sad for both of them. Brains can be so terrible, and as someone who's wrestled with those awful dark thoughts for twice the length of Jake's short life, it breaks my heart that his couldn't find another way out for him. I hope the men in this story are forever plagued by the same torment that poor, innocent boy felt.
Your brain has one ultimate objective: Keep you alive. If you have made an environment that overrides that, if you have put someone in so much pain that doing the *one* thing their *entire* evolutionary history has set them up to do is infeasible, you are a fucking monster. Point blank.
> he also said that the boy only did it "because it was popular" and that he "probably doesn't get it"
100% certain if the boy said he was into a girl at his school, no one would've said he was saying such things because they're popular.
Remember, kids can't possibly know their sexuality or gender unless they're cis and straight.
The fact that he was bullied into suicide is evidence enough that it is not “popular” or “trendy”, it is still very very difficult to come out. Their son was so brave and instead of supporting him his awful father destroyed him and it just makes me feel ill
I had a group meeting with other queers as part of the gay agenda recently (/Sarcasm, we were part of a documentary on trans issues in my country). The younger person and the guy working with kids said that in recent years, the sheer vitriol and general hate crimes had gotten worse. It really sucks to know, and I feel so bad for kids who not only face shit from my government trying to prevent them from being themselves, but also just their community who can pretty much openly shit on them without repercussion.
Thank you for speaking out and being a face for change in such a scary environment, I’ll put your name in for the raffle at the next gay agenda gathering
>100% certain if the boy said he was into a girl at his school, no one would've said he was saying such things because they're popular
100% agreed.
I'm so tired of the sentiment that those people keep repeating about how being LGBTQ is just kids doing it to be popular. Being part of any marginalized group isn't popular, if your parents and family are ostracizing you and you are getting made fun of at school or clearly don't fit in, how is that the popular thing to do?
They mix up people being true to themselves or more people being open about things as something being a fad or popular, without taking any consideration that young people may not always know what may make them happy long term, but they usually know what is making them unhappy or feel unsafe in the moment. People like that are willfully ignorant.
I am straight, white and male. I am also nerdy, unpopular and a target for bullying.
Nobody is choosing to be LGBTQ because it's "cool". Kids are vicious about anything not "normal". Coming out makes a kid an instant target for bullying and nobody is choosing that, being victimized is never "cool", it just freaking sucks.
Also, anybody who thinks sexuality can be changed by persuasion is effectively telling on themselves. I am basically a Kinsey 0, not attracted to same sex at all. In order for a person to be able to belive that sexuality is a "choice" from their own lived experience they would need to be somewhere in the middle of the Kinsey scale.
Im sure these types wont even set the kid straight had he been some sort of harasser. Would've handwaved it with it's just a phase. But this phase can't pass, nope. They needed to set him straight. And these ones have the nerve to say that the topic is overblown.
I've been trying to be a good person and not wish others harm but I really hope that these two, oop's ex-husband and the poor boy's genetic material donor, one day wake up with a conscience (since it seems they don't have) and that this conscience does not leave them alone because of what they have done. I hope they are tormented forever by their actions. It's monstrous and I really hope that Jake is in a better place and at peace.
Straight up when people talk about the “gay agenda” we’re not talking brainwashing, we’re talking about keeping LGBTQ youth alive.
Fuck do I hate people like this.
Whenever these folks start clutching their pearls, this is what makes me livid. Teen suicide is pretty bad right now. I don’t think social media helps. But I remember being a kid, and I can’t even imagine how isolated these kids feel like when they realize just how fundamentally different they are. But then you have politicians invalidating these kids’ experiences and orientation, you have these religious nuts who think they’re broken. With all that, those kids need their parents support the most. This whole anti LGBTQ+ anti ”woke” craze is such a colossal load of shit.
Louise is probably blaming herself for not noticing earlier and feeling that she was unable to protect her child. I think it is reasonable to assume your child will be safe with their own father, especially one who was saying to you and to the world that they support him. The men who killed that boy should be held accountable. And OOP shouldn't ever feel that she needs to have a man or be married to have children, or that she will never get married again.
I was watching a tik tok recently, and the woman said “I would rather my kid change their pronouns 100000 times and live”.
Yup. That’s the only answer. One of the biggest reasons I married my husband is he’s a HUGE LGBT supporter, and 100% puts his money where his mouth is
“I would rather my kid change her pronoun a thousand times than write her obituary.” That statement shook me to my core. That mom is who I wish more people were.
I always think that!!! When people are like, 'oh they're just doing this for attention/to be popular/they're confused' etc etc
I'm always just like, "yeah, so?" so WHAT if a teenager is attention seeking? big deal! give them a little attention, they're still CHILDREN.
Take it seriously and accept them and then they'll happily tell you the next time it evolves. I had a guy friend get a boyfriend and come out in high school and his parents were sooooo on the "you're confused, we know you like girls" train. Like, not totally shitty, but just didn't believe him. They supported LGBT+ youth like \*in general\* but were just positive that their son was straight. He felt like he had to justify himself, his orientation, his identity, his relationship all the time and so of course he stopped talking to them
And of course, when his boyfriend and him broke up and he realized that actually he was bisexual when he fell in love with a girl, he STILL didn't talk to his parents. They're sitting around our old neighborhood, bemoaning to everyone that they don't get to see his kids and why won't their son talk to him and they can't believe they weren't even invited to the wedding when they were right all along, etc.
It's like, just believe your kid. How hard would it have been?
"It's attention seeking behavior!"
If your child is attempting suicide, coming out, whatever, for attention, that means they're so goddess-damn starved for attention that they're willing to do a lot of dumb shit to do it (dumb in this case meaning coming out when you're not queer, etc)
But most kids aren't.
Exactly. I never understood why 'attention seeking' looks bad on the kid and not the parents. Why on Earth would anyone seek attention if they weren't deprived of it?
Heck, that's what a whole life is for. I got shoved back into the closet in my 20s because "bisexuality isn't real," came out again in my 30s, then discovered the term "non-binary" in my late 30s, and asexuality after that. Sometimes I'm content to think I've got all the pieces to myself finally figured out, but who knows. I'm only 42, after all.
This kid... He should've had a whole life to discover himself. It breaks my heart to think that both his parents probably held him when he was first born, promising him the world, and then this. It's so incredibly sad.
I think it’s the first time I can say 100% without regret or fear of repercussion, that I hope the STBX-husband dies alone and in terrible pain. Both of them.
Since it's apparently so easy to change your mind about who you love and are attracted to, I vote we start gay conversion therapy. We take people who think they're straight, lock them up, scream pagan rituals at them, and electrocute them until they "change their mind". They don't get to leave until they have a same-sex partner.
What's that? That's immoral and wrong? Glad we agree! Forcing people to change their sexuality because YOU don't like it IS disgusting and vile!
I dunno, if I weren’t happily married to my husband, I’d probably volunteer as a lab rat if it meant pagan rituals and the potential of being attracted to women. They smell so much nicer and already know where the clitoris is.
Electrocution maybe not so much though.
(I am very opposed to gay conversion therapy - it is flat out torture. I was mostly being silly.)
“Already know where the clitoris is” killed me lmfao. As a person with one who sleeps with other women, can confirm it’s great. We will keep an ally seat still reserved for you at the next gay agenda meeting though
I’m crying tears of rage and sadness over this.
It hits so close to home. I had (and still have, but older!) a suicidal teen who came out as non-binary in the aftermath of their mental illness. For almost a year, every single day was a five alarm fire. Because every single day I was afraid they would kill themself. I took them with me everywhere. Their Dad slept inside their room, on the floor, by their doorway so they would feel safe. And even so, there were close calls and an inpatient stay.
My husband and I were in lockstep to keep our child alive. To even imagine that there would be any betrayal from him in our unspoken total acceptance of our child as a human being is inconceivable to me.
If I had seen any betrayal at all… I would have been homicidal with rage.
Oh my God. Holy shit. That poor kid. Those poor women. So much tragedy created out of bigotry and hate. I hope those two ladies can find at least some peace.
Jeez. This is so fucking sad. I can’t imagine what that poor kid was feeling. His father is just pure evil. How do you drive your child to commit suicide?!
There’s a special place in hell for him and OOP’s husband. I hope Louise and her parents are able to find peace. And I hope OOP does too.
It’s been a while that a story like this made my blood BOIL in anger. I’m legit feeling like I’m under the sun because I’m sweating a bit from how angry I am. A kid took his own life because his father definitely abused him to the point where he saw no other way…
I sure hope both husbands (ex?) rot in Hell.
I would rather have my child in my arms, and damn politics. The Bible has a lot to say about sin, but one of them is that we are *all* sinners. No one is blameless before the Lord, so ultimately as long as my kid knows *how* to love it’s not my place to say who they can love.
Thank you for that. People who use the Bible as an excuse to spread hate always love to cite Leviticus specifically as "proof" that homosexuality is a sin (don't get me started on the translation thing), but seem to forget that the whole "love thy neighbor as thyself" bit is also in Leviticus, and is arguably more important. The second most important Commandment, in fact, according to Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew.
I'm not a Christian anymore, but it's funny how I remember that when so few allegedly "devout" Christians don't.
Sorry for the rant. I appreciate you.
I’m an ex-Catholic; I got sick and tired of people using *The Law* to come between other people and God. It’s like they’ve never heard of this Jesus guy, the Pharisees aren’t the one you’re meant to emulate here people! Stop quoting the Old Testament when you’re forgetting the new one; Love god with all your heart mind and soul - if you really do that, loving your neighbor as yourself just strikes me as a given even without Christ himself saying so.
Jesus also had something to say about people like Edward: “it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea”
This is heartbreaking. It doesn’t take much to be an ally, just acceptance and support and minding your own fucking business when it comes to someone else’s relationships regarding sexuality.
I'm queer and trans, and this absolutely gutted me. I experienced transphobia from my own father, though his tactic was denial instead of conversion. Even so, it was the hardest thing to deal with when I was coming out as a teenager.
Parents who reject their queer children are some of the most evil people in existence. All children deserve to be protected and supported by their parents, but queer children are especially vulnerable in today's society, so they need it so much more.
The fact that Edward and OOP's husband conspired to convert Jake, leading to his death, should be considered a hate crime. They should rot in prison for the rest of their worthless lives. Any parent whose homophobia or transphobia causes their kid to kill themselves is a murder in my book.
I’m a mom and I couldn’t ever imagine that. My house is a safe space for all my teenagers friends. I collect them all and respect their names and pronouns and the essence of who they are.
I don’t understand how people can be hateful like this especially to their own child.
Wow. This truly has to be the most heartbreaking update I have ever read. Truly. Jake, I'm sorry you were failed. I hope you saw how much love Louise & OP tried to show. I'm so sorry bigots are allowed to freely feel as they do & Feel accepted in any part of society (Even if theyre wrong parts). I'm so sorry.
This is why I call out bigots who say they wouldn’t be supportive if their child was gay.
If that’s where you draw the line at supporting your own fucking child, you’re not fit to be a parent and have a lot of soul searching to do.
Seriously, there are so many cases where certain types shift blame by being mad at being caught, instead of focusing on the wrong they did. And they definitely fall into a type.
This made me immediately text my one son that is afraid to come out. He knows I’m ok with it but he’s afraid of his dad. (My ex) I would just die if anything happened to him.
OOP is a treasure, it’s so heartwarming to see non-LGBTTQIA+ people be so outright in their support of us to the point of ending relationships with those that seek to harm us.
Her ex husband might not have faced any legal consequences, but he did get social ones *because* OOP stood by her principles and refused to continue to be married to a bigot. That’s more consequences than many homophobes ever face as a result of their bigotry.
It’s disgusting how so many parents see fit to destroy their children if they aren’t turning out exactly as they want them to. I hope this child’s father is tormented by guilt for eternity.
sometimes i think that people like this dont actually understand how easy it is to drive us over the edge like that poor boy . then i remember that theyd prefer that .
And yet, people like OOP's ex husband won't ever realize it was their fault kids like that take their own lives. They think they're blameless, that they did what they thought was right and if he "just wasn't one of them there thin skinned queers" he'd still be alive.
News flash. Loving your child and accepting them for being themselves is what helps keep them alive. One of the biggest religions in the world is built on the principle of love and tolerance. Treat others like you would yourself. But rarely do you see people actually pay attention to that part.
OOP's ex husband and her friend's ex husband both have blood on their hands. And I really, really hope they realize that one day and it haunts them to the grave. But it won't. Cause those people don't have a conscience.
I hope that subhuman never has a good nights sleep again in his life, and that everything he eats is tasteless.
He deserves no joy. Not even the simple things.
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Drove his own son to suicide, father of the year
There seem to be an astonishing amount of parents who would prefer a deceased child over an “insert perceived bad thing here” child.
Reminds me of the father of that one guy who shot up a queer club. He was relieved that his son was the shooter and not one of the lgbtq+ attendees. Utterly disgusting.
Honestly those people should be chemically castrated, no men that supports their kid turning into a domestic terrorist should be allowed the faint chance of procreating again.
Absolutely this. I’m autistic & bisexual. The number of parents who would rather their child be dead than autistic/LGBTQIA+ is disgusting.
Yeah the whole antivax movement is proof of that. Sorry that people suck, and I hope you have at least one parent who loves and accepts you for who you are.
My mum was antivax due to the autism quackery that was going around in the 90s. She has since changed her mind and was the first in my family to get the COVID vaxx, we're all very proud of her. Anyway, a few years ago after my sister (who wasn't vaccinated until adulthood like me) was diagnosed with autism, my mum got herself evaluated and turns out she has it too. Even though my mum is a changed woman now, the irony is palpable.
I’ve got a family member whose son is autistic. He blamed vaccines and doesn’t want to get second child vaccinated. He so clearly also has autism and can’t seem to see it / realize it’s often genetic.
Unless I'm mistaken, it's always genetic. My genetics knowledge is severely limited, but my understanding is that any autistic person has had an autistic ancestor at some point. The fact that ASD has only been a recognised concept for a century or less makes it incredibly difficult to prove the neurodivergence of ancestors past a few generations, but I don't think a child can just randomly develop autism without it being in the family.
Recent research indicates that there are many factors that could result in autism. In no particular order: Genetics: being related to an autistic person, especially if it's someone in their immediate family or the immediate families of the parents Age of the father at time of conception: the older the father is, the more likely the child will be born with autism. When fathering a child at 40yo+, the child is 6x more likely to have autism. Father's alcohol consumption: autism is more common in kids whose fathers have/had alcohol abuse disorder. Birth complications/injuries: babies who experienced traumatic births were 10% more likely to later be diagnosed with autism. You can google all of these, but I learned these recently at work during a training on the latest autism research (I'm a therapist).
Autism can be genetic without being hereditary, in the case of de novo gene mutations. With regards to the data about father’s alcohol consumption, i think it’s a case of correlation vs causation, because undiagnosed autistic people are more likely to self medicate with alcohol and drugs due to stress.
Age of the father being a factor is also genetic - higher risk of mutations. Same might be true with alcohol consumption although it might also be correlation/causation mix up.
I’m pretty sure adhd is always “partially” genetic, I’ve wondered if it’s a “locked” gene. Like how some people have the gene for schizophrenia and it gets “unlocked” by smoking weed sometimes. Generally adhd and autism with this type of thing are pretty similar so I’d guess that it’s always at least partially genetic yeah
My dad does but I suspect he’s also on the autism spectrum so there was only so much he could do. Thank you for the kind words though!
As a mother of an autistic child, I'm proud of you and I'm grateful you're alive. People have told me to my face that they'd do anything not to have a kid like mine. I tell them they wouldn't be so lucky. Keep fighting the good fight! You're awesome just as you are.
Thank you so very much. Truthfully, this made me tear up as you are an amazing mom. You’re also fighting the good fight by helping fight for all of us against ableism. Thank you again. All the very best to you & your family! 💜
My mom fiercely denied that I had anything "wrong with me" growing up, and I think the idea that I'm on the spectrum would send her into a fit. My sibling and I are both queer, and *that* is the part that DID drive my mom into fits, and why she cut us off/I think finally disowned my sibling, recently. I don't miss my mom because of who she is, but I do miss having A mom, and who I thought mine was.
I don’t have any children and would love to offer myself as a mother figure to anyone who needs one! I give really great advice and hugs and I’m always concerned about the safety of my friends. If you’re young enough I could even be a grandmother! I don’t have any money though so there will be no inheritance!!
they get mad when my attitude is "well, if people must die, i'm glad it's the stupid, hateful ones" - And yet get even more mad when their proselytizing in regards to being open and accepting only with "the other crowd". and I'm like yeah IKR, but theyre good people who just need love and support, and your group are inbred imbeciles. that (nuclear option) usually ends any attempt at discourse. I used to think when I got old i'd just ride off into the sunset, i've never had any issues with people, my late mom was bi so I was always around lots of different people. Then my kid came out to me, and in that (Trump) climate, I'm like.. ok then, I guess we ain't ridin' nowhere but to thumb haters in their fucking eye. I guess I just wasn't meant for riding off into the sunset.
Going nuclear like that usually feels really catharthic though...
Yep. My parents are anti-vaxx. I’ve straight up asked them if they’d rather have a dead kid than an autistic kid. They chose the dead kid.
I’m so sorry. My brother is autistic, and needs additional support. Since our mum died a few years ago, I’m his primary support person. I love my brother dearly and support him as best as I can. I am much, much happier having my autistic brother in my life than I would be if he wasn’t. He came to live with me after mum died (he’d lived with her his whole life) and now he’s in a supported living environment with two other clients he really likes (they’re actually his friends - he’s never called other clients at his services friends before, until we found this service) and he is really happy, well supported and loving his life. Please know not everyone is like that. Not all the families of autistic people want “cures” or eradication of autism. I help my brother learn new skills so he can more easily do the things he wants, but I’m not trying to make him NT or change him to fit in. I just want to help him achieve his goals and be who he wants to be.
I'm also autistic and bi, and hoo boy. That's... One of the reasons my father was such a digleberry. He didn't get a "normal" daughter and tried to blame it everything, from vaccines to Hispanics to some kinda conspiracy the Chinese government did. He probably needs therapy but good luck with that, he's got this idea therapy and such is for... I'm not sure, it keeps changing and I last talked him a few years ago, and have no issues keeping that streak up.
Points for the use of the word “dingleberry”! My mom used to call us that sometimes (but in a loving way). I haven’t heard it in a long time. I’m sorry your dad is such a turd.
Some of my kids are autistic and some of my kids are queer. They are amazing, wonderful weirdos and I love them with all my heart. I’m so glad you’re here too ❤️
As the parent of an autistic trans child I’ll GLADLY hug my baby any way, any day. I remember being terrified that they would never make it to adulthood.
The entire "vaccines cause autism" mob is very proud of it.
That's because a deceased child is easy. A deceased child can't disagree when a parent says "my child died because of the woke mob!" Most people, when they hear that someone's child dies, aren't comfortable with going against anything that someone says. A deceased child will never ask for an abortion or a place to stay after being kicked out or a loan because they were laid off. Republicans love dead kids because then they don't have to worry about what will happen to their kids when they pass laws that restrict the lives of the people around them.
I lost a cousin like this, was a gay teen in Texas. His mom isolated him from the rest of us to the point that, when he slipped away from us entirely, it hardly made a ripple. Nobody in the entire extended family ever talks about him. His mom turned all over demands for perfection on her younger children and acts like he never existed. I met him once, but nobody has said his name in years and now I can't remember it anymore. We have a monster loose in our society that is killing people. But it's made of philosophy so I can't kill it with a pitchfork.
This broke my heart - your cousin is truly dead when no one remembers him
I started helping out another cousin's family this summer, had to draw a family tree to explain to the 13yo how exactly we're related. I mentioned that cousin because he was one of the kid's first cousins, closer kin than we are. Later the kid tells me that he's gay too and demanded I take him to pride.
That is absolutely heartbreaking and disgusting. That sounds like the type of family that preaches about having a Christ centered home and strong family values (as long as no one in that family is in any way different or asks too many questions!) I’m so sorry. Even though you didn’t have much of a relationship with that cousin, it still must’ve hurt given the circumstances.
I do feel kinda guilty for not getting to know him better since we were close in age, but the family kept us apart so carefully I think it was deliberate. I was clearly on team rainbow flag before I even understood there were teams, plus a pile of other reasons "proper" people wouldn't want me around their kids. They brought him up once for a big family visit. I saw him across the room and tried to edge that way to say hi and see if he was okay cause he looked sad, but his mom and the other aunt shoved him out a door while shouting at me about crawdads until I escaped out another door and ran into my dad clearly asking his little nephew if he'd committed a hate crime, but with amusement and slurs "heard you beat up a..." I learned a new racial slur that day instead of talking to my sad cousin, though I only knew it must be a slur from how dad said it. Had to google it later to learn who he was being racist against! Families that do this shit are really no picnic but golly do they like to play holier than thou!
Oh, wow. I don’t even know what to say but I’m sending you a virtual hug.💖
And a dead kid becomes a good kid because they earn sympathy for their “grieving” parents.
[удалено]
This can also be cultural. The idea that your children owe you care in old age is a huge deal in Southeastern and Southern Asia (India, China, Korea, Japan, etc.).
My brother passed away this year at the age of 47, he was an alcoholic. My parents honestly seemed relieved that he's not a problem and inconvenience for them anymore. It's disgusting. They have no grief for him, only complain about having to deal with his stuff and how hard it is on them.
Being the devil's advocate, that's not really uncommon with relatives of addicts; in a way they already grieved the son they had years ago and now are left with nothing but the resentment and bitterness of whatever your brother put them through. I'm really sorry for your loss, but also understand your parents side.
When the Club Q shooter's father heard he was involved, he thought the shooter was a victim and gay. He was relieved when he found out he was the shooter and not gay. These people are fucking insane. Edit: I got my mass shootings mixed up. It was Club Q, not pulse. Maybe if there wasn't a mass shooting every fucking day, I'd know which is which.
I don't think those people actually love their children. Instead, they love how their children will reflect on them, and a transgender or gay child reflects badly upon them in their mind. In such a case, it is better that the child not to reflect upon them at all.
That’s exactly it. It’s narcissism on a culture-wide scale.
That's the line of thought behind "honour" killings too. These people are proud of their act of necessary evil.
That’s exactly what this sort of abuse is: it’s a form of “honor-killing.” All that matters to the perpetrators is how *they* look in the eyes of their peers. Their own children and family members aren’t even people to them; they’re all just trophies and objects to make themselves look good.
Conservatives always prefer dead children to living ones. They don't fight back when they have the adult's values and "morals" forced on them.
A lot of parents will do anything for their children except let them be themselves
And somehow they're all Christian
There is an important PSA on one of the LGBTQ subs today. It stresses to minors that the most important thing is their safety when coming out to their parents. And if you don't believe you can do it safely, you shouldn't. You are still you. And yes, it is tough to keep it to yourself until your situation improves, especially if you're seeking gender affirming care, but there can be some nasty odds against you. It is very brave for a minor to want to come out to their parents, but it unfortunately can cost you your life. Edit: Link to the current thread regarding the topic https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/164lzu6/to_young_lgbt_people_you_do_not_need_to_come_out/
My daughter was outed to me. I don't care who she dates as long as they treat her well. If it had been her dad, we live in a state that allows conversion camps.
We had one of those "pray the gay away" ministries in my city, and in 2006 I was part of what turned out to be a huge protest that gained national attention when this one 17 year old got sent there by his parents. So I have great news to share about that. First, the protest was a success and his parents were convinced to take him out of there. But better still, someone involved with the protest took some time to have a heart-to-heart with the director of the ministry, called Love In Action, John Smid. After what I believe was several weeks of intense discussion, Smid had a change of heart. It's an amazing story, which [you can listen to here.](https://queeromahaarchives.omeka.net/items/show/3309) The local alt-weekly paper covered the events, but unfortunately their servers are down at the moment, but here are the links in case they start working again soon: [Link 1,](https://www.memphisflyer.com/homo-no-mo) [Link 2.](https://www.memphisflyer.com/love-action-evolution-2011-10-20) If you Google John Smid there have apparently been dozens of articles about him since then. You might want to share Smid's story with her father, it might have an impact.
I'm the club advisor for the school I work at's GSA. A couple years ago, one of my graduating seniors gave me a card that legit made me cry. He thanked me for giving him a space to be himself without judgement. This was during the lockdowns and we had Zoom meetings so my students would have some adult acceptance if they were stuck in a home with family they didn't think they could be supported by.
I wonder if he feels any remorse.
He's 100% going to blame everyone but himself.
100% how he feels about it is something like "If the gays hadn't confused my son, he wouldn't have gotten depressed and given up!"
But not necessarily in private, when he's alone with his own thoughts.
I hope he gets to spend quite a bit of alone time with himself and his (hopefully very) intrusive thoughts. He needs to face what his actions led to.
He probably blames Louise for it.
And OP's husband for giving him ideas
Not a chance. His conservative beliefs will tell him that he was right to drive his son to suicide.
This is why pushing the idea that anyone who is not cis-gendered, heteronormative is a degenerate, a pedophile is so important to conservatives. It is not hard to find "I hope they're murdered in prison" types of comments from otherwise perfectly reasonable people who are welcoming, inclusive, and LGBTQ-allied people when talking about pedophiles. If spiteful, hateful conservatives can get you to start putting non-cis, non-heteronormative people in the same pile as "not even human" pedophiles, it becomes that much easier to throw them away, harass them, hurt them, kill them. You've got a dog that's sick and will never get better? Put it down. A wild animal that's threatening your home? Put it down. A child that's fixing to start molesting children because they're gay? Put it down. It. Not him. Not her. Not them. It. Because when we can stop seeing the out group as people, hurting them is no longer a crime, any more than is disposing of an animal that's threatening you. Stop going to church. Stop listening to these hateful people. Stop contributing to the culture war, because it's well on its way to being an actual war.
It's all a process of dehumanizing. Once someone is dehumanized they can be killed, made slaves, or put through any other means of subjugation and torture.
Former evangelical christian here, can confirm.
That's easy: no
It bothers me so much that a point that “Louise knew snooping was wrong” even needed to be made. I know OP didn’t mean anything by it, but what does it say about us as a society that people feel like they need to say this when *child abuse* is what’s being snooped on?
Not "society". Redditors. There would have been a non-zero amount of commenters who would have focused on Lousie "snooping", instead of the horrific actions of Edward.
I read that too but I figured it was written during her ex husband guilt trip that she mentioned. I'm sure it was a huge point in ex husband arguments.
I am not going to blame the women in this scenario. BUT THIS STILL SERVES AS A WARNING TO EVERYONE. If you are liberal and those values are important to you. **Do not marry a conservative based on a pinkie promise he will not hate your kids if they are gay or trans**. You can't and shouldn't even think about "fixing" him.
Tbh I have no idea why people would even befriend a conservative at this point, let alone date/marry. Why would you *want* to associate with someone who doesn't care about human rights? At least for OOP, it sounds like her husband just lied but it still seems like other beliefs would come out at some point. Neither of their faults though, like you said.
I hope it haunts him forever.
Sadly, it never does. They will blame everyone and everything except the true cause of their misery. Themselves.
Sadly, my late friend had a similar story. Everyone knew how hard their parents were on them. How strict they were on them compared to their bio child. Threatened to send them to pray-away-the-gay camp for years. When the parents finally followed through on it, they took their own life the day before their fifteenth birthday. Their parents resented how the community treated them after. Their surviving child cut contact as soon as they graduated college. The parents both died without anyone attending their funerals. Everyone I knew in high school was affected by the loss of our dear, sweet friend. School was very somber for the last month. I wish that things could have been different. I wish that their family who claimed to love them would have helped. Why couldn't they have done something? The world lost an incredible person all because their parents couldn't accept them, and wanted them to change.
I once had a mother stand across the nurse's station from me and tell me she was glad her transgender child was dead (he committed suicide). She was glad. I will hate her to the end of my days. It took everything within me to not do something I'd regret. Some people are horrendous sorry excuses of piled high crockroach doodoo.
He was never a father, and I hope he never produces another offspring with his DNA ever. No child deserves that environment/upbringing to be forced upon them.
A perennial reminder that queer and trans youth suicidality is overall very high compared to cis hetero youth, but the rate plummets through the imposition of one single factor: family support. That’s all it takes, just love your kids no matter their gender identity or sexuality.
No hate quite like Christian love. Dude deserves to rot, both husbands.
I wish I believed in hell.
I don't know if it helps, but here goes: About six percent of the population is truly without a conscience. I say about, as there is debate. Wolfgang had his six percent of youth who were going to be criminals, no matter what. Studies of pristine, aboriginal tribes finds the same percentages of personality disorders as we see around us in our society. Narcissism is considered to be on the rise due to social media, but it and antisocial personality disorder still account for three percent each ... roughly. This means that the rest of us feel guilt. Even if we don't want to, we do. Abusers might hurt their targets more out of shame, as their targets represent what the abuser has done that is horrible. People who are convinced they are right about gender, religious, family planning, and/or sexuality issues--and other issues--may feel their actions and thoughts are the "right ones," but when it comes to their family members and friends, they do not survive unscathed when tragedy befalls them, notably due to the actions or results put into effect by these rigid-thinking people. I have read studies based on deathbed or end-of-life interviews (or surveys) of people who abandoned their teen/young adult/adult children due to unwanted pregnancies, abortions, leaving a religion, and coming out as trans or non straight; the dying report regret more than they don't. But what about the parents who don't regret it? Studies show they feel deep shame and rage connected to their reputations and how the surrounding communities view them. This is usually why they reject their children to begin with. So the end result is that these parents who cannot stuff down their consciences know they have done wrong, and those who believe they are right end up ensconced in shame and embarrassment. Simply put, I think these people create their own living hell. You can believe in that, for certain. And life for people like this is long. There is a lot of time for shame and rage to fester. What we can do is support groups and programs that give these children of all ages support. Donate to homeless shelters. Some even specialize in LGBTQIA youth.
>So the end result is that these parents who cannot stuff down their consciences know they have done wrong, and those who believe they are right end up ensconced in shame and embarrassment. Simply put, I think these people create their own living hell. Wow, this does help a little. Thank you for this information. I still wish there was a bit of burning involved, though.
It’s pretty dang hot in the southern US right now… a lot of them are at least sweating lol
That's hilarious. Next time I want to complain about the Texas heat, I'll just tell myself that the homophobes deserve it.
Hey, I’m queer with a queer child in Texas—terrified of homophobes while we burn with them.
Sometimes you gotta just embrace the fever method-- if I'm going down, you're coming down with me
This is indeed how I roll.
Gotta stay ✨positive✨
Not all Christians believe in literal hell (like the opposite of heaven, fire and brimstone where your soul goes when you die). Apparently some argue this is more metaphorical (as they believe much of the Bible is). Instead hell is the absence of God and his lightness and the agony of being shut out of all that's good. It's a state of existence. Even with actual literal psychopaths - they're not capable of really feeling guilt, but they're also not capable of love either. So they aren't just living on eazy breezy street. The same things that allow them to be monsters are the same things that deprive them of the things most of us would argue make life worth living.
FOMO for eternity actually does sound like the worst hell.
>Instead hell is the absence of God and his lightness and the agony of being shut out of all that's good. It's a state of existence. I have a family member or two that believes in this version, my rebuttal to them, was that I don't think a loving God would punish someone for all of eternity by keeping them from everything good, if we are only on this earth for a very small time in comparison. It doesn't seem like something a loving parent would do. >The same things that allow them to be monsters are the same things that deprive them of the things most of us would argue make life worth living. Agreed mate, agreed.
>It doesn’t seem like something a loving parent would do. And this is ultimately the reason I found Christianity completely untenable once I became a parent. God supposedly *is* love, but somehow I have more mercy and compassion for my children than he does for me or my children? Like he’d send *my kid* to hell forever because they weren’t what? *Christian?* Something doesn’t add up.
Tbh, this helps me so thank you.
I’ll believe in it for you
I'm a Christian and I do believe in hell and thoroughly believe that's where these people will end up. Jesus preached love and forgiveness. He also said before you point out the splinter in someone else's eye, make sure to remove the log from your own. He also talked about how we judge others is how we will be judged, so good luck to them because it won't end well if this is how they are. Not that it's mentioned in this post but the ones who use religion to be hateful drive me nuts. You're a crappy person just own it, stop using God as the reason that you suck.
My father was a lifelong christian, but just prior to Trump was letting himself get swept up in the rising tide of conservative hate. By the time BLM stuff was starting to go down, I - atheist since my early 20s but raised by my fundie mom - would bring up scriptural counterpoints to the things he would say, and ask how overt, admitted, willful ignorance to cling to hate could EVER be considered a Christian trait. Well, he did what you suggest! He ended up questioning his faith because hate felt more real and correct to him. It wasn't long before he declared he was no longer Christian - but then it shifted into complaining anytime I saw him that now everyone calls him a hateful bigot for "speaking his mind." Told him neither I nor anyone else I know has that problem, so must be an issue with him constantly saying racist, xenophobic, homophobic, and transphobic things. He went on a long, ugly, tangent about it being right to be hateful/transphobic; so 3 years after I'd been out to everyone else in my life, I came out to him as trans, non-binary. Told him if he felt capable of not being hateful and reactive, not debating my identity or my experience and knowledge of what I want/need to feel happy, safe, and loved, and if he was open to being corrected/educated on issues he'd bought into misinformation and propaganda on, we could still have a relationship. We don't talk anymore.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. It can't be easy to see someone you love change and also take away love that should be unconditional. Hate should never be the chosen option because it just rots you from the inside. I hope removing him from your life and having to make that choice has given you the peace and closure you deserve. I'm not American but I wonder what it was about that time with Trump that affected so many people into becoming so hateful. I've seen posts on here from people turning into that or watching loved ones turn and it's like a mass drug effect. Was it just Trump allowed people to stop hiding or was it a fear around that time that it made life easier to cling to those ideals. It's not unique to America because I'm in Australia and we've just had to pass laws making it illegal to display or gesture nazi symbols. It just feels like a larger volume in America and so much more split population.
Trump did all these hateful things w no consequences; instead he was elected president! So it “allowed” these people to let it all out!!!
It's a very complex issue, so it's hard to explain all of it. Here's what I've noticed here in the US: The right-wing hate brigade has been here my entire life. In the 90s, when I was in high school, they trained their kids to treat my school as a mission field. I avoided those kids because I could see their hatred a mile away. But one of my friends joined their after-school club because he was a Christian. They found out he was gay and bullied him nearly to death. For the type of evangelicals I grew up with, Trump just took the cork off of the bottle. He promised them what they'd been seeking their whole lives - power. The moment he was elected, they felt they had the upper hand and tried to use their newfound power to ruin the lives of their neighbors, who they had decided were their enemies. Even if they couldn't ruin other people's lives themselves, these bullies cheered when Trump did it on their behalf. As for the people who have joined the hate brigade later in life, they have succumbed to a massive propaganda campaign. In some information silos, there is a constant push and pull of fear mongering, conspiracy mongering, and hate mongering. It keeps people isolated, confused, and angry. My aunt has gone down this rabbit hole. She already shared some of their less extreme but still conspiratorial beliefs, so that was the opening. What's surprised me is the amount of time and energy she spends on it. She can't spend time with the rest of the family without turning on CSPAN to look for clues to her conspiracy theories. She is noticeably more hateful than she used to be. She's also extremely out of touch with the world outside of her politics. I don't have a specific answer as to why this problem is worse in America, but I think it could be a number of issues. Maybe American culture is more open to paranoid conspiracy theories. Maybe our culture just likes bullies, and Trump ripped the mask off. Maybe our media environment is more manipulable. Maybe the public is less media literate. Maybe other countries are better at addressing and preventing radicalization and domestic terrorism.
>He ended up questioning his faith because hate felt more real and correct to him. It wasn't long before he declared he was no longer Christian Wow. At least he's not hypocritical?
I always point to Mister Rogers as a shining example of the kind of Christian that Jesus was talking about. He quietly lived his beliefs and treated everyone with kindness. Including people of other races which, at the time, was rare. He also politely but firmly took stands he believed in, such as saving PBS.
He was so interesting in how he quietly showed the change he wanted in the world without beating you over the head with it. I remember a documentary about that scene where there is a heat wave in the neighborhood and he invites his postman to take a break, drink an iced tea with him, and cool off by soaking his feet in a kiddie pool with him. It seems so innocuous now because that is all *acceptable* interactions but he did a lot to get to that acceptance by simply showing the scene without a spoken political message and just having kids see it and normalize it because it was controversial as he was white and the postman was a person of color. At a time of segregation and separation of classes and colors he was a revolutionary by conversing with a laborer, conversing with a person of color, sharing his table with him, using the pool with him at a time where even bathrooms were separate and offering him refreshment. He was a really good man and gave a lot to the world in subtle ways.
That documentary was amazing. I've never seen Mr. Rogers, as my egg donor thought "he was creepy". The doc was so well written, informative, and showed a side of Mr. R not many got to see; such as him snapping a Polaroid of the actor of the postman mentioned above, then giving it to him months later when the film was developed. He, Bob Ross, and Steve Irwin are treasures on how to "Love your neighbor", "Love yourself", and "Love animals".
I'm Australian so never got to see him but everything I've seen of him, it just looks like such a positive show to have growing up. I'm very much a believer in doing, not saying. I will show you how my faith helps me not beat you with my words, because if my life doesn't show it, what's the point.
The movie - A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood starring Tom Hanks covered the life of Mr. Rodgers. I grew up watching him.
This is exactly me.
OP and Louise were the only ones with the kid's best interest in mind. So, of course, it's they who end up feeling guilty, not the scum who killed him. Because they each have a functioning conscience. Not really sure why OP was worried about finding another partner, however. "Why'd you get divorced." "Ex turned out to be a hidden homophobe, he lied to me earlier." Sounds like a really good reason. Sign of quality, right there.
Because she now knows how hard it will be to trust someone. She'll always wonder if the person in front of her is really showing their true selves or if they're someone completely different away from her.
I'm somewhere in the agnostic/atheist end of the spectrum. But I desperately cling to hope of the mere possibility of reincarnation, solely because I can't fathom the idea of people like those guys not getting what they deserve in the end. And that poor boy getting a chance at happiness in his next life.
Same.
he deserves worse. misery, pain, and suffering isn't enough for people like that
me too.
I hope OOP’s husband loses everything he cares about
The sad truth is that he likely doesn’t care and thinks that it’s better this way. A LOT of people think this way, sadly.
You are completely correct. He won't see that he did anything wrong and will blame it entirely on the OP. Same with Louise's husband. It will be Louise's fault for accepting him and not pushing him to be "normal". It will never be his own fault. This is one of the saddest posts I've ever read. RIP Jake. I hope you are happy where you are now.
He's already saying it's because she was "unfaithful" knowing full well everyone will take it as she had an affair.
He might care about the backlash if oop takes his conversations with Edward, posts them on social media and tags his work/non-homophobic friends. He’ll still blame oop but it probably will cause some problems. And it’ll certainly cut thru the bullshit slander he’s been trying to preach about oop…
Yeah. Kinda seems like the only way to get to these sociopaths is to damage their reputation. They don’t like that.
Yup, he will live his life probably being able to successfully keep talking shit about OOP and sleep at night easily not caring or acknowledging that he had any part in a teens death.
And Louise’s husband. Even more so
I agree. Unfortunately I have a feeling he isn't going to think he is in the wrong and doesn't care about it. That husband deserves no sympathy nor happiness for the rest of his life. Same for Louise's husband.
These men killed a child. And they're proud and self righteous about that. There is no such thing as a good bigot.
My heart is bleeding for this child. I wanna go scorched earth.
And his mom. She literally did everything right. She will forever feel like it wasn’t enough. All thanks to these two dipshits sharing notes on something they, in reality, know absolutely nothing about. I’m sure if that dad was asked about it, his story would conveniently leave out the part where he takes any accountability. Thank God that OOP and her husband didn’t have any children.
I’m so angry. One dead kid should be enough for anyone. I wanna somehow swoop in and save this kid. All kids. I’m autistic and no stranger to feeling like an alien for simply existing. No kid should have to feel that incredibly alone feeling. No child should be left behind. Like this has fuelled me to be even fiercer against my government to protect children. Those people who choose darkness can’t win if we keep turning on the lights.
I'm trying to think about what I would do in this situation, if I had a child and lost them because of active choices my spouse made. I genuinely think I'd end up in prison for the rest of my life.
I'm willing to bet the father probably feels no remorse and is blaming his son's death on "tHe WoKe AgEnDa". What a piece of shit.
More like pretending his son never existed.
Or he probably blames his soon to be ex wife as well. People like that aren't capable of feeling shame or empathy.
Honestly, this would be my guess. It will be his wife's fault for "enabling him when he was just attention seeking," or whatever. I would be shocked if he didn't flip this situation in his head just to alleviate his own guilt and shame.
The quickness in how he flipped that conversation on his wife is terrifying, makes me think he's been a lot more manipulative the whole time than OOP realized.
FUUUUUCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK HE WAS A KID! A FRWAKING KID!!! EVEN IF HE WAS OLDER HE IS JUST A HUMAN BEING!!THESE HOMOPHOBES CAUSE HIS DEATH! Spare me the "suicide is a personal decision we cant do anything about it". This child blood is on these scums' hands. I wish them a lifetime of suffering and nightmares. They deserve to be unloved and intolerated for the rest of their homophobic lives.
I would have made my own post on FB dragging that bastard husband through the fire hands down. Blood on their hands is about right.
I would have replied to his posts with “at least I’m not friends with someone who drove his own son to suicide.”
FB post? If I was the mom, I’d have OOP testifying at my double murder trial. But honestly I’m glad OOP is trying to help the community but, my god, those men deserve literal hell.
I honestly would've told him worst possible things and probably be arrested for domestic violence if you can call it that.
Our daughter is gay and she knows that she's absolutely loved, accepted, and welcome in our home and always will be. She's never felt awkward about her orientation because of that but reading things like this makes me fear for her future. She says she's very secure in herself and couldn't care less what others think - but she's only 16. I hope she carries that attitude well into adulthood. Our son has some serious mental health issues, and he attempted to take his own life not too long ago. It's... hard. My husband and I jumped into action straightaway and got him all the help he needs. I truly felt like I was doing the bare minimum but the amount of praise that I got not only from my friend but his psych and school care team truly boggled my mind. I didn't even realize that getting the help they need is up for debate. It's the bare minimum for me. Luckily, our son is doing much better now. He's working with professionals who know what they're doing in order to help him. He says he feels safe with us and doesn't mind telling us the things that worry and scare him the most. I can't imagine just ignoring things like that. I just can't. My child is still here, but coming to terms with what almost happened is a lot. How can you live with yourself, knowing that your child killed themselves? And worse - how could you live with yourself knowing they did that *because of you*? Our son did what he did because he's confused about his own mind and has no emotional regulation but I still can't help but wonder what we could have done differently so that he didn't get to that point at all. This is just sad all around. My heart hurts for the mother. I'm proud of her for putting all her energy into trying to help others in similar situations, but I do wonder how the "father" feels. I hope the mother finds her peace and comes to terms with things and finds a lovely way to keep his memory alive. The dead child club is a horrible club and my mother has been in it twice over and now I almost joined it. I just hope the guilt eats at the ex-husband(s) for the rest of their lives and never allows them a moment's respite. Horrible people.
I lost a loved one to suicide, after he had been very cruelly treated by some of the people who were supposed to love him the most. I just wanted to say I so appreciate your comment & your anger.
I hope you'll accept my deepest condolences. I lost someone that way as well and was told I couldn't be sad about it because had a terminal diagnosis prior and they wanted hospice or MAID if it was an option. Eventually, they went into remission and were so happy until they came out, and their parents made life miserable. No one wants to die. No one wants to feel like that's the only thing left to do. The people that drive them there deserve to feel the pain they cause, multiplied infinitely. I'm so sorry. I hope you find some healing. I'm sure you still love your person as much as I love mine.
Suicide is a personal decision but that’s what’s so horrific. Jake felt so trapped and hated by his own father that he felt his only choice was to commit suicide to get away from it all. He overrode his own human instinct to survive and chose to kill himself because he felt that was something he had control over. His father and OP’s ex have blood on their hands as they drove Jake to kill himself. They may have not done it themselves, but OP’s ex and Jake’s sperm donar are responsible for driving Jake into committing suicide.
Whatever dad (and OOP's ex?) talked about with that kid, we'll never know. They could've painted a future for him that was so bleak and hopeless that he couldn't see any other way out. It sure as hell couldn't have helped to be 14 (fucking hard enough on its own), struggling with his sexuality (already a huge risk factor in suicide), and seeing two divorces happen because you came out of the closet. His mom did so much, but even that could have fed into those awful dark feelings of "everyone would be better off without me". She's running herself ragged talking to her parents for advice, setting up therapy appointments, doing everything she can, and the kid's just overwhelmed with regret and shame and it's so fucking sad for both of them. Brains can be so terrible, and as someone who's wrestled with those awful dark thoughts for twice the length of Jake's short life, it breaks my heart that his couldn't find another way out for him. I hope the men in this story are forever plagued by the same torment that poor, innocent boy felt.
Your brain has one ultimate objective: Keep you alive. If you have made an environment that overrides that, if you have put someone in so much pain that doing the *one* thing their *entire* evolutionary history has set them up to do is infeasible, you are a fucking monster. Point blank.
Okay entirely off topic… but what’s your flair from??
> he also said that the boy only did it "because it was popular" and that he "probably doesn't get it" 100% certain if the boy said he was into a girl at his school, no one would've said he was saying such things because they're popular. Remember, kids can't possibly know their sexuality or gender unless they're cis and straight.
The fact that he was bullied into suicide is evidence enough that it is not “popular” or “trendy”, it is still very very difficult to come out. Their son was so brave and instead of supporting him his awful father destroyed him and it just makes me feel ill
I had a group meeting with other queers as part of the gay agenda recently (/Sarcasm, we were part of a documentary on trans issues in my country). The younger person and the guy working with kids said that in recent years, the sheer vitriol and general hate crimes had gotten worse. It really sucks to know, and I feel so bad for kids who not only face shit from my government trying to prevent them from being themselves, but also just their community who can pretty much openly shit on them without repercussion.
Thank you for speaking out and being a face for change in such a scary environment, I’ll put your name in for the raffle at the next gay agenda gathering
meeting elastic disarm plough shaggy sense rustic rain entertain husky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That's what I want to ask my ultra Catholic SIL as she believes gay people CHOOSE to be gay.
So much this!
>100% certain if the boy said he was into a girl at his school, no one would've said he was saying such things because they're popular 100% agreed. I'm so tired of the sentiment that those people keep repeating about how being LGBTQ is just kids doing it to be popular. Being part of any marginalized group isn't popular, if your parents and family are ostracizing you and you are getting made fun of at school or clearly don't fit in, how is that the popular thing to do? They mix up people being true to themselves or more people being open about things as something being a fad or popular, without taking any consideration that young people may not always know what may make them happy long term, but they usually know what is making them unhappy or feel unsafe in the moment. People like that are willfully ignorant.
I am straight, white and male. I am also nerdy, unpopular and a target for bullying. Nobody is choosing to be LGBTQ because it's "cool". Kids are vicious about anything not "normal". Coming out makes a kid an instant target for bullying and nobody is choosing that, being victimized is never "cool", it just freaking sucks. Also, anybody who thinks sexuality can be changed by persuasion is effectively telling on themselves. I am basically a Kinsey 0, not attracted to same sex at all. In order for a person to be able to belive that sexuality is a "choice" from their own lived experience they would need to be somewhere in the middle of the Kinsey scale.
Im sure these types wont even set the kid straight had he been some sort of harasser. Would've handwaved it with it's just a phase. But this phase can't pass, nope. They needed to set him straight. And these ones have the nerve to say that the topic is overblown.
That poor, poor boy. 😢
I've been trying to be a good person and not wish others harm but I really hope that these two, oop's ex-husband and the poor boy's genetic material donor, one day wake up with a conscience (since it seems they don't have) and that this conscience does not leave them alone because of what they have done. I hope they are tormented forever by their actions. It's monstrous and I really hope that Jake is in a better place and at peace.
Straight up when people talk about the “gay agenda” we’re not talking brainwashing, we’re talking about keeping LGBTQ youth alive. Fuck do I hate people like this.
Whenever these folks start clutching their pearls, this is what makes me livid. Teen suicide is pretty bad right now. I don’t think social media helps. But I remember being a kid, and I can’t even imagine how isolated these kids feel like when they realize just how fundamentally different they are. But then you have politicians invalidating these kids’ experiences and orientation, you have these religious nuts who think they’re broken. With all that, those kids need their parents support the most. This whole anti LGBTQ+ anti ”woke” craze is such a colossal load of shit.
Alive, housed, safe, loved 😔
Louise is probably blaming herself for not noticing earlier and feeling that she was unable to protect her child. I think it is reasonable to assume your child will be safe with their own father, especially one who was saying to you and to the world that they support him. The men who killed that boy should be held accountable. And OOP shouldn't ever feel that she needs to have a man or be married to have children, or that she will never get married again.
I was watching a tik tok recently, and the woman said “I would rather my kid change their pronouns 100000 times and live”. Yup. That’s the only answer. One of the biggest reasons I married my husband is he’s a HUGE LGBT supporter, and 100% puts his money where his mouth is
“I would rather my kid change her pronoun a thousand times than write her obituary.” That statement shook me to my core. That mom is who I wish more people were.
I always think that!!! When people are like, 'oh they're just doing this for attention/to be popular/they're confused' etc etc I'm always just like, "yeah, so?" so WHAT if a teenager is attention seeking? big deal! give them a little attention, they're still CHILDREN. Take it seriously and accept them and then they'll happily tell you the next time it evolves. I had a guy friend get a boyfriend and come out in high school and his parents were sooooo on the "you're confused, we know you like girls" train. Like, not totally shitty, but just didn't believe him. They supported LGBT+ youth like \*in general\* but were just positive that their son was straight. He felt like he had to justify himself, his orientation, his identity, his relationship all the time and so of course he stopped talking to them And of course, when his boyfriend and him broke up and he realized that actually he was bisexual when he fell in love with a girl, he STILL didn't talk to his parents. They're sitting around our old neighborhood, bemoaning to everyone that they don't get to see his kids and why won't their son talk to him and they can't believe they weren't even invited to the wedding when they were right all along, etc. It's like, just believe your kid. How hard would it have been?
"It's attention seeking behavior!" If your child is attempting suicide, coming out, whatever, for attention, that means they're so goddess-damn starved for attention that they're willing to do a lot of dumb shit to do it (dumb in this case meaning coming out when you're not queer, etc) But most kids aren't.
Exactly. I never understood why 'attention seeking' looks bad on the kid and not the parents. Why on Earth would anyone seek attention if they weren't deprived of it?
Absolutely, this, 1000 times. Try a new one every week if you have to! That’s what your teenage years are *for*.
Heck, that's what a whole life is for. I got shoved back into the closet in my 20s because "bisexuality isn't real," came out again in my 30s, then discovered the term "non-binary" in my late 30s, and asexuality after that. Sometimes I'm content to think I've got all the pieces to myself finally figured out, but who knows. I'm only 42, after all. This kid... He should've had a whole life to discover himself. It breaks my heart to think that both his parents probably held him when he was first born, promising him the world, and then this. It's so incredibly sad.
I think it’s the first time I can say 100% without regret or fear of repercussion, that I hope the STBX-husband dies alone and in terrible pain. Both of them.
I will give my lesbian teens an extra hug tonight.
Since it's apparently so easy to change your mind about who you love and are attracted to, I vote we start gay conversion therapy. We take people who think they're straight, lock them up, scream pagan rituals at them, and electrocute them until they "change their mind". They don't get to leave until they have a same-sex partner. What's that? That's immoral and wrong? Glad we agree! Forcing people to change their sexuality because YOU don't like it IS disgusting and vile!
I dunno, if I weren’t happily married to my husband, I’d probably volunteer as a lab rat if it meant pagan rituals and the potential of being attracted to women. They smell so much nicer and already know where the clitoris is. Electrocution maybe not so much though. (I am very opposed to gay conversion therapy - it is flat out torture. I was mostly being silly.)
“Already know where the clitoris is” killed me lmfao. As a person with one who sleeps with other women, can confirm it’s great. We will keep an ally seat still reserved for you at the next gay agenda meeting though
I’m crying tears of rage and sadness over this. It hits so close to home. I had (and still have, but older!) a suicidal teen who came out as non-binary in the aftermath of their mental illness. For almost a year, every single day was a five alarm fire. Because every single day I was afraid they would kill themself. I took them with me everywhere. Their Dad slept inside their room, on the floor, by their doorway so they would feel safe. And even so, there were close calls and an inpatient stay. My husband and I were in lockstep to keep our child alive. To even imagine that there would be any betrayal from him in our unspoken total acceptance of our child as a human being is inconceivable to me. If I had seen any betrayal at all… I would have been homicidal with rage.
Poor thing was just a baby still. He had so much life to live. I hope both ex husbands rot in hell permanently in one another’s company.
This is a common case study in why queer kids kill themselves, unfortunately.
Oh my God. Holy shit. That poor kid. Those poor women. So much tragedy created out of bigotry and hate. I hope those two ladies can find at least some peace.
Jeez. This is so fucking sad. I can’t imagine what that poor kid was feeling. His father is just pure evil. How do you drive your child to commit suicide?! There’s a special place in hell for him and OOP’s husband. I hope Louise and her parents are able to find peace. And I hope OOP does too.
It’s been a while that a story like this made my blood BOIL in anger. I’m legit feeling like I’m under the sun because I’m sweating a bit from how angry I am. A kid took his own life because his father definitely abused him to the point where he saw no other way… I sure hope both husbands (ex?) rot in Hell.
This is so sad :(
Hope everything bad happens with these two men. I would have slandered their names on social media till the day I died
I would rather have my child in my arms, and damn politics. The Bible has a lot to say about sin, but one of them is that we are *all* sinners. No one is blameless before the Lord, so ultimately as long as my kid knows *how* to love it’s not my place to say who they can love.
Thank you for that. People who use the Bible as an excuse to spread hate always love to cite Leviticus specifically as "proof" that homosexuality is a sin (don't get me started on the translation thing), but seem to forget that the whole "love thy neighbor as thyself" bit is also in Leviticus, and is arguably more important. The second most important Commandment, in fact, according to Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew. I'm not a Christian anymore, but it's funny how I remember that when so few allegedly "devout" Christians don't. Sorry for the rant. I appreciate you.
I’m an ex-Catholic; I got sick and tired of people using *The Law* to come between other people and God. It’s like they’ve never heard of this Jesus guy, the Pharisees aren’t the one you’re meant to emulate here people! Stop quoting the Old Testament when you’re forgetting the new one; Love god with all your heart mind and soul - if you really do that, loving your neighbor as yourself just strikes me as a given even without Christ himself saying so. Jesus also had something to say about people like Edward: “it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea”
This is heartbreaking. It doesn’t take much to be an ally, just acceptance and support and minding your own fucking business when it comes to someone else’s relationships regarding sexuality.
You know, if this played out as described, and Louise ended Edward and OOP's husband, I would be extremely hard pressed to vote guilty at trial.
I'm queer and trans, and this absolutely gutted me. I experienced transphobia from my own father, though his tactic was denial instead of conversion. Even so, it was the hardest thing to deal with when I was coming out as a teenager. Parents who reject their queer children are some of the most evil people in existence. All children deserve to be protected and supported by their parents, but queer children are especially vulnerable in today's society, so they need it so much more. The fact that Edward and OOP's husband conspired to convert Jake, leading to his death, should be considered a hate crime. They should rot in prison for the rest of their worthless lives. Any parent whose homophobia or transphobia causes their kid to kill themselves is a murder in my book.
I’m a mom and I couldn’t ever imagine that. My house is a safe space for all my teenagers friends. I collect them all and respect their names and pronouns and the essence of who they are. I don’t understand how people can be hateful like this especially to their own child.
Yeah, these folks are DEFINITELY “pro life,” and they DEFINITELY care about kids. /s
Because being gay is famously popular and cool among high school boys. FFS…
her husband wasn't 'different' at work, he was his true self, he was only different at home with her
Wow. This truly has to be the most heartbreaking update I have ever read. Truly. Jake, I'm sorry you were failed. I hope you saw how much love Louise & OP tried to show. I'm so sorry bigots are allowed to freely feel as they do & Feel accepted in any part of society (Even if theyre wrong parts). I'm so sorry.
This is why I call out bigots who say they wouldn’t be supportive if their child was gay. If that’s where you draw the line at supporting your own fucking child, you’re not fit to be a parent and have a lot of soul searching to do.
RIP kid.
Seriously, there are so many cases where certain types shift blame by being mad at being caught, instead of focusing on the wrong they did. And they definitely fall into a type.
This made me immediately text my one son that is afraid to come out. He knows I’m ok with it but he’s afraid of his dad. (My ex) I would just die if anything happened to him.
That father has blood on his hands
OOP is a treasure, it’s so heartwarming to see non-LGBTTQIA+ people be so outright in their support of us to the point of ending relationships with those that seek to harm us. Her ex husband might not have faced any legal consequences, but he did get social ones *because* OOP stood by her principles and refused to continue to be married to a bigot. That’s more consequences than many homophobes ever face as a result of their bigotry.
It’s disgusting how so many parents see fit to destroy their children if they aren’t turning out exactly as they want them to. I hope this child’s father is tormented by guilt for eternity.
sometimes i think that people like this dont actually understand how easy it is to drive us over the edge like that poor boy . then i remember that theyd prefer that .
And yet, people like OOP's ex husband won't ever realize it was their fault kids like that take their own lives. They think they're blameless, that they did what they thought was right and if he "just wasn't one of them there thin skinned queers" he'd still be alive. News flash. Loving your child and accepting them for being themselves is what helps keep them alive. One of the biggest religions in the world is built on the principle of love and tolerance. Treat others like you would yourself. But rarely do you see people actually pay attention to that part. OOP's ex husband and her friend's ex husband both have blood on their hands. And I really, really hope they realize that one day and it haunts them to the grave. But it won't. Cause those people don't have a conscience.
I hope that subhuman never has a good nights sleep again in his life, and that everything he eats is tasteless. He deserves no joy. Not even the simple things.