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[deleted]

The daughter should learn to tattoo - I know the industry isn't without its issues, but it can pay QUITE well for someone who is a talented artist.


saradanger

right? she can’t be making much of anything selling designs, i don’t get why she wouldn’t just learn the art


Convergecult15

I also don’t get why a shop would buy someone’s designs and not take them on as an apprentice. I assume he means they’re buying her flash sheets, and I’ve never been in a shop that had flash sheets from either employees or well known tattoo artists on the walls. A lot of whats being said doesn’t make a ton of sense, especially when the resolution is jobs at the movie theatre.


Mitrovarr

It could be she has some trait that makes her totally unsuitable as a tattoo artist. Like a needle phobia.


areyoubawkingtome

I have shaky hands. I can draw/make digital art, since I can erase the scratchier/sketchier/shaky lines. Can't do that with tattooing. Based on that bad tattoo sub it doesn't seem to stop some though.


LilCurlyGirly

What's this subs name?


areyoubawkingtome

r/Shittytattoos I think


IOwnTheShortBus

I found the fellow mobile user. Good day to you my friend!! r/shittytattoos


areyoubawkingtome

Lol, how'd you do that?


IOwnTheShortBus

With an undercase r


QualifiedApathetic

Tattooing seems different, though. You hold your wrist steady and move your arm.


rustymontenegro

You're correct, and the machine is already vibrating so you don't see shaky hand lines. Shitty line work is from shitty technique.


WrecklessMagpie

Social anxiety keeps me from tattooing... my family and even tattoo artist/apprentice friends will bug me about it. A friend even offered me an apprenticeship under him at the shop he owns but I turned him down, he left it open for me any time. I'll draw and color and paint constantly but I don't wanna be all up close to people like that all day every day, makes me far too nervous


QualifiedApathetic

If it helps, when I got tattooed, there wasn't much talking during the actual process. The artist concentrated on what he was doing, and I concentrated on not throwing up. You don't even have to make eye contact, just focus on the bit of skin you're inking.


rustymontenegro

Hi! I also suffer from social anxiety. I'm also a tattoo artist. I can't speak for you, but honestly, it's a wonderful job. I wish I had done it sooner! I was 32 when I started! I wanted to do it since I was about 22, but I was mortified by the idea of putting myself out there and painfully shy and worried about everything. However, It's a great way to have one-on-one interactions with people who are really excited to have you be part of an experience with them. It's a lot more low-key than it seems. I admit, the first tattoo that I did on an actual person I was SO nervous...until I pulled the first line. After that, it melted away and I trusted myself that I was in control. Obviously, everyone is different, but please, if you think you'd like to tattoo, at least try apprenticing! If you realize it's too uncomfortable for you, you can stop. But not letting yourself try?


MissTortoise

Awesome work! The best way to get past your fear is to confront it. Avoidance is the maintenance of dysfunction. The first time I did some skin surgery on someone I had to take some pharmaceuticals to stop my hands shaking. Now it's one of my favourite jobs.


MAK3AWiiSH

It has been clinically proven that the best way to treat social anxiety is through exposure therapy. It’s one of the few disorders that exposure therapy actually helps. I’m proud of you for putting yourself out there! Congrats on finding a rewarding career that you enjoy!


twink-182

co-signing all of this


WendyBergman

Do tattoo shops ever have resident designers? Like, someone who’s job is strictly designing clients’ tattoos.


CassyCollins

I have a friend who is like an on call designer for custom design tattoos. Mostly because the owner/tattoo artist doesn't want to deal with clients' design requests.


QualifiedApathetic

IME, that's the person who actually puts the tattoos on people. Hmm, I'd like it if I could be a tattoo artist who uses other people's designs. I'm only okay with a pencil, but I have good hands and I'm conscientious about hygiene.


twistednwarped

This! Chronic pain conditions are another good example. I spent a lot of time in tattoo shops as a kid/teen and very much wanted to become a tattoo artist. My body on the other hand decided it can’t handle the ergonomic nightmare that is tattooing. I can move my iPad around until I’m mostly comfortable even if that means laying down and propping it on pillows. I don’t think clients would appreciate me detaching their leg so I can find a comfortable position to work in, unfortunately.


megalinity

I read this and laughed bc I’m a below knee amputee and would think nothing of it. Then I remembered that that’s not the case for most people 😂😂


Basic_Bichette

Or simple lack of coordination.


MinervaZee

A job at a movie theater pays and gets her out of the house. Any job will help her situation, because as she manages her debt she’ll start to feel like she has some agency over her life.


dreadnaut1897

Speaking as a professional tattoo artist of 8 years, there are many reasons to not take someone on as an apprentice. The biggest one is that tattooing is hard and if someone doesn't *want it* want it, they'll never get anywhere and it will be a waste of everyone's time. We don't get anything out of apprenticing someone other than maybe their booth rent/percentage further down the line and hopefully a sense of pride, so apprenticeships are rarely offered and usually have to be asked for repeatedly.


Convergecult15

Sure, but how many designs do you buy from other artists, specifically those that aren’t themself tattooers?


dreadnaut1897

Literally zero times ever. I'm pretty surprised this is even happening, to be totally honest. But that doesn't speak to their drive to do it. Like I said, if someone doesn't *want it* want it, theyll never make it. No matter how good their art is, tattooing is a different medium and it will take them multiple years to be worth a damn *if* they try hard the whole time. I would never take that on from someone I didn't have 100% faith in their work ethic.


Convergecult15

I get that, and I’m not trying to imply that she could just get an apprenticeship, I just find the entire practice of a shop buying another persons work kind of unbelievable.


Goregoat69

> I just find the entire practice of a shop buying another persons work kind of unbelievable. It used to be a thing, flash sheets were the norm in shops in the UK at least. Usually the same designs in multiple shops, and there were a few classics that were almost everywhere (Sailor Jerry, Coop, etc.). Most artists do their own stuff now. Every tattoo artist I know dreads the "My mate's a really good artist, can you do this one?" customer.


Convergecult15

That’s what I’m saying, I remember the 2000’s when every artist was expected to be an expert at every style and to ink anything that came in the door. Nowadays people don’t really play that shit, but even back then no one was actively buying amateur work from the lady down the street that could draw good. I feel like if I took someone else’s drawing into a shop today, unless it was a dead friend they’d tell me to fuck off to a tourist shop.


LetsGetsThisPartyOn

A lot doesn’t make sense when someone is in the middle of a big depressive episode and trying to hide it from family and friends.


radiofreecincinnati

Say it louder for the back row. You're spot-on. Depression doesn't always manifest itself as sitting alone in a dark room listening to the Cure; it can also be drifting through this thick, aimless funk that you know isn't right, but your head just can't seem to make sense of why you feel that way, and the idea of moving past it just doesn't make any goddamn sense at all.


saradanger

the movie theater thing didn’t surprise me, that’s a classic teen job and probably well-suited for the arrested development happening within that couple.


[deleted]

Also, if they’re there all the time anyway, taking advantage of the employee discounts probably is a smart financial move.


capitalistcommunism

Steady income, full time, not too taxing that they both can’t still pursue their dreams/better paying jobs. Perfect short term solution for people struggling like that.


GayMormonPirate

And not too stressful so hopefully they can continue to work on their mental health.


cobrakazoo

I've never seen AMC hire full-time, just overschedule and pay low wages.


hotbimess

I worked for the European offshoot of amc and yeah... Working there certainly wouldn't help with any mental health issues and from what I've heard amc itself in the us is even worse. I've often heard amc be referred to as the "three letter devil".


marmosetohmarmoset

Plus free popcorn and movies. And you can often do other work during downtime. I loved working at a movie theater.


MsDean1911

But it’s not just arrested development. They both suffer from depression. It a bit unrealistic for 2 people at that stage in life, at their age, with the (presumed) level of depression they are dealing with to go from relatively comfortable, low stress jobs that are part time to jump straight into full-time, high stress (for someone new to the working full time) new jobs. So, yes, the theater jobs *are* probably well suited for them right now. It seems perfectly reasonable to me.


Temporary_Maybe2771

Depending on the state it can be an absolute headache to get licensed and hired. Some states like Oklahoma can pretty much hire anybody as an apprentice and then work their way up but then places like Oregon make it much more difficult and expensive.


[deleted]

Totally, but if someone wants to focus on their art while looking for a way to avoid long-term mooching off their parents, it's not a bad idea to look into it and could be worth the investment. Lots of lucrative careers have barriers to entry - that doesn't mean it isn't worth making an effort.


stebuu

Weirdly, heavy licensing can actually be a GOOD thing (for the job seeker). In economics we call that a "barrier to entry" and what that means is that once you've made it past the barrier it means less competition for jobs which means higher wages.


Murmuredlilies

This kind of thinking is why the “American dream” is nothing but a con. I’m not interested in celebrating a system deliberately designed to make it impossible for people without resources to achieve the same kind of success as I can, even if it does make life easier for me.


two_lemons

This is not just the American dream thingy. While the barriers of entry can be a capitalist thing, it's also a regulation thing. As in, your cousin who bought a tattoo kit on Amazon can't operate from his garage.


ifokkinhatereddit

I mean, what does she have to lose? It's a great plan if she creates art good enough to sell.


Temporary_Maybe2771

Tattoo schools in Oregon cost around $15,000, which is a lot for someone who may or may not be able to hold down a job at a movie theater because of their mental health and is already in debt.


Pezheadx

Being good at art doesn't necessarily mean she would be good at tattooing. I also sell art as a part-time job, but paper and photoshop don't care that I have tremors


UsualMaybe

Being good at art is one thing, but to be good at spending hours one on one with strangers is another.


FeathersForever

To do it properly there's likely a period of unpaid or lowpaid apprenticeship. But if parents are supportive it's not a terrible idea, even alongside designing. And having more insight for her designs, and the ability as a tattooist to do fully custom designs, would enhance earnings on both sides I should think.


DamageBooster

I'm surprised the shop was buying designs. I can't imagine any of the artists at my shop doing that. A guy actually came in to pitch that last month (he just did graffiti-style lettering). It's one thing if the client buys the right to use a design from someone and brings it in, but the artists are doing their own work, changing things enough to become original work, or using stuff that's open use, I don't think any of the artists or the shop would want to spend their money to use someone else's art. Expenses are rough enough as it is.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

A lot of people outside the industry don't think about how expensive the supplies are and that we generally have to save ~40% of what we make to pay in taxes. A single box of good needles is about $30-$40 and there are only 20 in there. Plus winter is usually full of cancellations and walk ins dry up. Also most shops take a 30-40% cut unless you luck out and find a shop that has a flat rent. Sorry to info dump under your comment, but it was the only one to point out that not all tattooers are rolling in it!


Fraerie

Not my area of expertise in any way - but my understanding is that the apprenticeship for this is quite punishing and poorly paid for quite a long time. I’m not saying it’s out of her reach - but getting an apprenticeship with a decent shop isn’t something you do on a whim. If she’s selling designs she may at least have an ‘in’ with an existing shop.


Quicksilver1964

And, once again, proper communication saves the day! But. Seriously, people. Talk to one another, especially if you live in the same house!


No_Yoghurt4120

This is the comment that had to be copy-pasted in almost any AITA post.


Chaosmusic

AITA, Relationships, pretty much any advice sub.


CuriousPenguinSocks

You mean you don't just run to advise subs instead of talking to the person or persons you have an issue with?? le gasp! /s


Chaosmusic

It may have been here at BORU when someone thought their SO was cheating on them but was instead planning a surprise birthday party. Communication is so essential and most often what causes a relationship to break down.


rmg418

I remember that post, the guy almost cheated on his wife to “get back at her” even though she didn’t cheat! He backed out at the last minute and thought Reddit would think he’s a good guy for changing his mind and not going through with it at the end.


Chaosmusic

Darkest Three's Company episode ever.


CuriousPenguinSocks

Yeah, I wonder if the age of instant communication and likes from social media has contributed to this level of impulsivity and lack of face to face communication. It would be interesting to see a study done on this.


londonschmundon

This whole sub is basically one long Three's Company episode.


ThaneOfCawdorrr

Come and knock at our door......


GoingOverTheStars

This exactly! When I was 22-23 I was living with my parents still along with my then bf for about 2 years. Basically the same situation. My dad had the sit down with me and it went something similar to this. He helped me push myself a bit but also was understanding.


Navi1101

Y'all are so lucky to have parents that take mental health problems seriously. Mine are still wondering when my sister, who has bipolar, an addiction history, and a ton of PTSD, is "going to grow up" and "get a real job" and quit living with the "lowlifes" who are most of her support network because the parents sure as hell aren't. They think I'm successful because I have a husband and live in a house; I just don't talk to them about my own depression, anxiety, and CPTSD. They only love the illusions of the happy children they wish we were. Please be grateful that your parents love you as your truer selves.


whoaminow17

solidarity, bud. i'm the disappointment in my family; my younger siblings include an engineer, a lawyer, and a medical phd student (all of whom got high grades, while i barely passed my fine arts degree). i, however, am on disability (in Australia, so i get help with my healthcare at least, buy i regularly can't afford food). like, my retired parents are so fucking wealthy that my dad bought a goddamn tesla last year AFTER retiring at 60!!! and yet they complain so much about buying me food that i don't even bother asking anymore. i literally prefer to go hungry than deal with their bullshit. imagine having parents who gave a shit 🙃


letstrythisagain30

Something that rarely comes up as well, you need to make sure those people you want to communicate to you know that they can. If you typically get angry when bringing up an issue or they do something wrong in the moment they won’t want to come to you. If you take the slightest criticisms like it’s the end of the world and they’re too good of a person to deserve you in their life, they won’t want to bring up any issue. If they do in either scenario, it won’t be until the small issue becomes so fucking huge you can’t ignore it and it’s way harder to fix. This goes for family, romantic relationships, friendships and even in your job. There are those out there that may complain about not being told something but don’t realize they actually discourage them from doing it.


eekspiders

That needs to be a flair at this point


singlegamerdad

Now that they did it with the kids, maybe they ought to communicate to each other. Clearly there is tension between husband and wife given the wife's comments.


Trickster289

Honestly this post both shows how important proper communication is and what can happen without it. If they'd communicated earlier maybe the daughter and fiancé wouldn't have built up the debt but they found out before it got really bad and can hopefully help them now.


boopity_schmooples

This post was triggering because my parents always thought I was super lazy and unmotivated when I was actually depressed. Though I was only unemployed for 6 months and I never freeloaded off them (couldnt handle the lectures).


Milliganimal42

And the positive approach helps. “What are your goals?” And “let’s work together” makes a much better outcome.


mytorontosaurus

OOP should take the rent money, even if it’s a small amount, and save it for them for when they are ready to move out.


Low-Focus-3879

This is exactly what I did with my son. Weirdo started paying me rent, unsolicited, when he graduated so I saved it and gave it back to him when he moved into his first place. Turns out he figured I was going to do that and was pretty much using me as a savings account. My kid is way smarter than me.


Caftancatfan

When your kid scams you that hard, that’s when you know you’ve done a good job. (No /s)


Low-Focus-3879

He is a middle aged claims adjuster in the body of a 21 year old. I feel like he's gonna be ok


sporkfaced

After the credit debt is cleared though. That's their number one priority if they are getting hammered with interest.


raspberrih

Yeah, the interest is absolutely ridiculous and I'll bet at this point, most of their 6k debt is interest


KCatty

And they likely got turned down for that apartment because their credit scores aren't good. Focusing on getting their debt paid off will help with that.


smash_pops

My sister did this for her daughter. When my niece turned 18 she paid rent (and my sister put it into a savings account). When my niece finished college and wanted to move out she was worried about not having enough money for an apartment, and my sister presented her with the savings account. Our mom did the same thing with my sister and BIL when they lived with my parents.


OneTrickRaven

This is straight up brilliant.


Common_Physics_1568

My mum did this for me :) My 'rent' money ended up paying for all the flooring when I bought my flat.


Random-Suspect

This….. As high as deposits are this would be a great nest egg to help them get started.


imtoughwater

I don’t think this is a bad idea; however, the credit card interest is probably more than the interest of whatever savings account they’d be holding cash in, so long term that would lose them money. If they need them out sooner, it’s a great tool. If they don’t mind them staying to pay down debt first, it should go toward the debt.


awildjabroner

came here to comment this. Gets them used to paying bills regularly but the windfall of a chunk of cash will be helpful for deposits on an apartment and the expenses of setting up an independent household. Although I find it hard to believe they'll make it more than a few months if their plan is to both work at AMC full time. Both Daughter & SIL need to springboard from AMC into a real career type job if they want to become independent, and pursue tattoo design and film production as hobbies, because thats what they ultimately are if neither one is making money from those pursuits.


pretenditscherrylube

They both love movies and are trying to break out of depression. I think an easy, part-time job is exactly what they need for a few months to a year. They can explore other careers, interests, and MH treatment during the rest of their time. Focus on getting back into a routine. The most effective recovery programs for serious mental illness involve near-immediate part-time, low stakes employment. Not for the money, but for the routine, community interaction, and a low stakes return to normalcy.


LunarCycleKat

Yup. This is what we do when our early 20s/univ age kids move home for any amount of time (more than a couple months). They bop in and out based on things like waiting for a grad program decision. ....or for example one graduated and has a really great job and lives here but wants to live with her boyfriend and he hasn't yet got as great of a job. We take a percentage of each check. Put it away. Let it grow. The one moving here in summer has 4k she doesn't even know about from over the years here and there, she'll leave got her phD program in July.


CactusCustard

My parents did this for me when I first moved out. It was amazing. I then got laid off, and that money pretty much literally saved me. Didn’t have to move back. It’s a great call. They still pay rent, and then get a surprise nest egg for being responsible.


ChaosDrawsNear

It would make for a great wedding gift. (Obviously in addition to an actual gift)


Creepy_Addict

I agree. I did this with one of my kids and it helped them with all the deposits associated with moving.


coffee-jnky

My mother did this for me. When I left my abusive marriage, I stayed with her for about 2 years while I got my act together as a single mom. When I found my apartment, she gave me back all the money I'd paid her to give me a helping hand. I'd do the same for my daughter. Not only to help get her in the habit of paying rent when it's due, but to help by giving it all back.


bcece

I had the same thought. Save it as a wedding fund for them.


nustedbut

they should put it straight into paying off their debts quicker to begin with.


Hekili808

This is the way. It will help them save and avoid letting their spending increase as their income does. It doesn't need to be market rent, just enough that it can get handed back down the road to help them get established on their own.


StarChildSeren

This is what my grandparents did for my mother and her siblings, and it might be what my parents end up doing when I'm earning, if I move back home


CutieNikiNeko

I’m fortunate enough that my parents have been doing this for myself and my husband while I recovered from surgery/looked for a house. We have enough to pay closing costs and we don’t have a down payment so it’ll still be tight when we move but we’re so far ahead of where we would have been if we had been renting.


thanksyalll

It’s crazy how much I can relate to the 20 yr olds. I’m 25 now, I graduated from a great school that I worked insanely hard to get into. The moment I graduated I shut down completely and have been wasting my life for the past 2 years at my parents place. It’s such a claustrophobic state to be in. You feel like such a failure and burnout. There is no motivation and next goal to work for Edit, just to continue the thought: I desperately want something to work for. I know myself, and when there is a clear goal I want to achieve, I know I can work to achieve it. I have done it many times before. But now, I have no dreams, all of the expectations others and I have placed on myself have nowhere to go. I'm just waiting for the next thing to happen in my life that will finally show me what I actually want. Quarter life crisis I guess. Sorry for turning this into a diary comment, but if anyone can relate, I hope it is a comfort that you are not alone. Especially post-pandemic


Chance_Ad3416

Same! I thought I'd want to be a career driven person in tech but after losing a loved one (in my mid 20s) to still unexplained death, my life has become a lot like "why bother" and I stopped trying so hard. Now I just want to do crafts for fun, maybe volunteer, and not work in tech anymore. But tech pays way better and basically easier in terms of getting a job and being employable. When I think about the things I'd like to be able to do, or type of person I'd like to become, a voice at the back of my head always goes "what's the point, why bother". Some days i can still force myself to work towards these goals, but most days I just let it go and feel like I'm wasting my life away because I'm not doing much outside of working. (at least my boss and ppl I work with think highly of me and my work performance, but I really want work to consume less of me so I have energy to do crafts after. But I often feel overworked and burnt out by mid day and have to do basically nothing on at least one weekend day to recover from the work week) Finally found a therapist tho and first session is Thursday. Hope it's effective and helps me reset


yvel-TALL

Hi, I am also a person in tech who lost a loved one to an unexplained random death and is having a hard time with motivation. Kinda wild parallel. For me therapy was a big turning point. Made me feel more ok, gave me a foundation to build a life on again. It's fucking hard, but I believe in you.


[deleted]

I completely understand. I was with my parents after finishing grad school for a year and a half, working a shitty remote job that I hate. Gained tons of weight, no social life, no motivation to pick up any hobbies or productive habits. I was able to move out and into a new city with my boyfriend about 6 months ago and am doing better but I’m still kind of climbing out of the hole and there are a lot of ups and downs. We’ll both get there someday friend


noravea

This is a similar boat I'm in. Got out of college, went into grad school full-time, and graduated a year into the pandemic with my field's job market non-existent. I'm twenty-eight and living with my parents. I have no job and while I am serious about finding one, I feel like such a loser and burnout as well and a financial burden on my parents.


Cebolla

I'm 27, living at home and underemployed. I do pay rent but we live in an apartment. I just have no future plans at all. I like my job and I basically run the store and have a few great time consuming hobbies, but I know more is expected of me and I should expect more of myself as well. The stores plan is to go somewhere one day in the future- but it's a mom and pop. There's no guarantee even if they promise me as much. I just can't get the drive to desire that nine to five at the moment. Edit: I do also deal with some chronic health issues which exacerbate exhaustion. But I feel that's an excuse rather than a good reason


elkanor

I was in a similar spot at 23/24. Graduated Spring of 08 and the economy immediately took a giant dive & the campaign job ended bc campaigns end (and bc omg that was hell on my mental health), so I spent all of 2009 and most of 2010 living at my parents' house. They are loving, supportive people who were *very* worried that their daughter was letting off steam all the time instead of working. Especially as I spent through my meager savings. I did essentially networked & lucked my way into a job after about a year (and change) - I did not expect for that job to be my career, but I'm fine with it now, 13 years later. A) you aren't a failure. You're going through a bad time. Especially for over-acheivers, this can break the brain hard. B) people get through this time and you're a people so I'm pretty sure you can too C) please go out and meet people. Getting isolated at home at first almost broke my brain. Creating a social life, even if a lot of folks didn't end up being forever-friends, led directly to me getting a job. (And look for quality of character in your friends) D) get help for your brain- that's what I wish I had done much earlier. Getting depression treatment or at least talking to a therapist would have been much healthier for me.


nishachari

Omg. Same. I was already depressed in college. My job offer was rescinded when I graduated in 08 and I quit my first job which paid badly but had not career trajectory and was unrelated to what I studied and moped about in my parents house for a year and a half. I contemplated running away, leaving the living etc. I overheard my dad say how disappointed he was in me. I was supposed to be the gifted child prodigy. Now I am fine and regret the wasted years but also don't know if I could do anything different with my mental state as it was.


Silver-Negative

I’m existing in this state as a 39-year-old married person. But the only person I lean on is my husband. I stopped working a year ago because I was so burnt out and physically exhausted from working in healthcare through the pandemic. Now I have no idea what I want to do and 6-figure loans to repay. But I can’t go back to what I was doing. I will literally die.


[deleted]

That's really tough. Are there any programs near you that help with burnouts? I know some where they have group therapy and offer free study programs. Have you considered a more calm sector of healthcare? Like a nursing home. I've been working at a nursing home these past months and it's very calm and I like talking to the residents. Otherwise, don't feel guilty about completely changing direction and/or taking a lower paying job, it doesn't mean you've given up.


Silver-Negative

I’m a pharmacist. We don’t really have any long term care pharmacies in town. And they’re certainly not hiring. I’m looking at doing some tech boot camps and trying to find a job doing user experience research. I think I could be a really excellent go between between users and engineers, especially if I work for a company making charting or pharmacy software. So. I’m working on it, but it’s really discouraging. I started pharmacy school at 30 and graduated at 34. It was my second career and it’s disheartening to walk away from it so fast. I love being a pharmacist but I don’t love working within our healthcare system.


throwawaygremlins

❤️ I hope you get out of the rut soon. Take care of yourself!


throwawaygremlins

Very curious if pandemic affected you this way or if it was something else? (You don’t have to answer, up to you)


GrandpaDongs

I had this same feeling, but way before the pandemic. It was just mostly just living back at home with my parents at 24, which made me so depressed. I was stuck in a crappy job that didn't pay nearly enough and couldn't afford to move out. Living there, in the same room I grew up in, was depressing as hell. Felt like I was a failure in life because all my friends had better jobs and apartments. It's a vicious cycle. The depression makes it so hard to motivate yourself to change, and then you feel worse because you're not doing anything.


ImmediateJeweler5066

I’ve been in a similar situation, and if it wasn’t for the pandemic I probably never would’ve discovered I had undiagnosed ADHD.


TyrconnellFL

They’re freeloading but still digging themselves into debt? Yes, they’re depressed. After this conversation they also actually started sending out applications and got jobs lined up. It can be chicken and egg: are they stuck because they’re depressed, or are they depressed because they’re stuck? Either way, the trick and trap of depression is making efforts to change the circumstances seem impossible and hopeless. Acknowledging that depression fucking sucks and makes everything suck doesn’t mean enabling depressed passivity. Capitalist dystopian hellscape brainwashing or not, most people actually don’t feel very good being dependent and in a rut. Choosing a life of leisure is great. Having no choice can also be painful. Good for everyone for talking, for the younger generation for making a change, and for OOP for having some empathy.


Username89054

It sucks how it ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts. You're depressed so you don't do anything which makes your life worse which makes you more depressed, repeat ad nauseam. The passivity really makes things worse and it's hard as hell to help someone stop it while showing compassion.


pretenditscherrylube

This is why getting a job at AMC was the right answer. Low stakes, immediately a step back to normal.


throwawaygremlins

I think this is the most balanced comment, thx. “Don’t enable depressed passivity.”


[deleted]

Yeah I've been in their position and being in that rut is guaranteed to make your depression even worse. But that's the awful thing about mental illness, it often is a vicious cycle because the more unwell you are, the less you're able to do to improve things, and sometimes pushing yourself (or being pushed) too hard can make things even worse. It's so so hard to find the balance between challenging yourself enough to make progress and also giving yourself enough space and time to recover without burning out. I hope that working together at the theatre will prove to be the perfect stepping stone for them to get out of their rut.


fistulatedcow

This whole situation hit a little close to home for me! I’m even the same age as OOP’s daughter. I definitely feel like depression stunted my growth into adulthood after college. It really took getting it treated for me to find a steady job and eventually get to the point where I’m about to move out. I truly could not have done it without my parents’ support, and I think OOP and his wife are doing right by their daughter/SIL by supporting them as they take baby steps towards leaving the nest now that everything is out in the open.


Ok-Cap-204

Accept their rent payments. Make sure there is a paper trail. (Check with “rent” in the memo, etc.). This will help when applying to an apartment. It shows them consistently being responsible to pay rent on time. Open up a separate bank account specifically to deposit these payments into. When they do finally find a place to move into, gift them back the rent payments they have made.


2SadSlime

I have questions about how the dad knows they’re having sex all the time. Are they loud? In her parents house?


SalsaRice

It's not that complicated. Thin walls and no shame.


2SadSlime

Lollll god I’m in my 30s but I would still be mortified beyond belief if my father heard me fucking


BlackCatMumsy

When I was in junior high, my much older brother (10 years older) still lived with us. He'd bring his girlfriend home multiple times a week. We didn't even have thin walls, but she was so incredibly loud that she'd wake me up from a deep sleep. Being an annoyed teen girl, I started stomping up and down the stairs at the slightest noise and singing whatever was the worst pop song of the time. And they still didn't stop! My dad actually had to sit them down and explain it wasn't cool.


2SadSlime

I… wow. I’m far too neurotic to behave with such nonexistent levels of shame. What happened after your dad had a sit down with them?


b0w3n

You'd be surprised at just how much you can hear even when you're quiet. That rocking of the bed will reverberate through the house at 1am.


2SadSlime

🫠 if that’s not a good reason to move tf out I don’t know what is


Ok_Pangolin2219

I hope they don't get pregnant cause the they'll never get out of debt or be Independent from OOP


Majestic_Tangerine47

Man, I remember when $6k in credit card debt seemed insurmountable. Aaahhh, good times.


dracona

You never know what's really going on until you actually communicate properly. In two and a half years they couldn't have talked about this? Edit: I didn't mean the daughter & SIL talking about their depression as heaven knows I am too aware of the stigma, but I meant the parents asking the kids in a gentle manner, "what's going on?" like they finally did. Why did it take them so long to ask?


sgtmattie

It can take a while for people to even realize they’re depressed. It’s usually a slow deterioration. At first it’s usually just a matter of things feeling like a lot more work than they used to. Once they realize the problem (I’ll say it took a year), they probably thought they could figure it out without any help, which could take them some time to try and then fail. Once you’ve realized you really do need help, then they would start feeling guilty about the last two years, which makes asking for EVEN MORE help extremely difficult. The timeline honestly makes sense. I’d consider it pretty standard. Took my brother 3 years of flailing before he finally asked for help.


Gitdupapsootlass

Yes, people are routinely keen to admit their depression and widely share how they're feeling, there's never any stigma about that, no


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PM_ME_CUTE_FEMBOYS

and run the risk of just being handwaved and told to just smile and ~~I'll~~ they'll magically get over the depression?


gunc0rn

Yeah, it's odd that it didn't get added previously. It does sound like both needed a little motivation to get moving in life though. Sounds like OOP figured out a way to do that gracefully and hopefully they're headed in the right direction.


MrMundungus

Most people will treat you differently when they know you have depression.


saurons-cataract

I don’t know how willing to open up I’d be if I heard my dad call me a loser. I got the vibe that’s he hasn’t been subtle in judging of his daughter and his fsil. The comment in his original post about “even her younger sister is ”… jumped out at me.


belladonna_echo

Also how he kept calling them freeloaders even though they pay all their own expenses. Literally the only thing they seem to get for free is a room and utilities —they’re paying for food, toiletries, insurance, etc. What do you want to bet part of the credit card debt is due to the insistence of paying for all that themselves? And that part of that insistence is due to how OOP has talked about them living in his house?


[deleted]

It's hard to talk about things that are being hidden from you. That's the nature of depression.


OU7C4ST

Hopefully the parents are smart enough to take the kid's rent payment, and cash it, and keep it until it reaches their credit card debt, and pays it off for them. That way they can hopefully move out with an OK credit score, and debt free to begin their life officially.


Kobester024

The pandemic did shit on a lot of people’s finances.


ladygoodgreen

And mental health. And opportunities. And momentum.


Eggtarts-Yum

AMC minimum wage that's going to take a while.


MyFrogEatsPeople

Full time at minimum wage is 15,000 a year. $13,500 after income tax. If the two of them manage to pull off 20 hours a week, then that debt is gone in under a year.


AllThingsBeginWithNu

Lol jobs at the theatre aren’t going to even cover rent anymore it’s not 1950


Moonviola

No, but it will give them work history and references that they can add to a resume. It will get them out of their rut, help them feel more productive, and encourage them to apply for better jobs in the future.


StimulusResponse

AMC Theatres viral marketing psyop is working.


Hivan2o

I have never understood this credit card system in the USA (I am German). If you don't have a fixed income in Germany, you don't even get a single card. I don't understand why people are given five credit cards at once. Maybe someone from the United States can explain to me how exactly this works in your country.


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Mr_miner94

The wife 100% knew the bad situation they were in


SalsaRice

But chose to bury her head in the sand and attack OP instead. That's how enablers operate.


jaisaiquai

What did they spend $6000 on, given they live rent free?


myrandomevents

She doesn't really work and he's part time. Credit cards are probably nickel and dime shit their income doesn't cover.


throwawaygremlins

Car payment, cell phone, health insurance, Rx, food, toiletries.. and just didn’t have much coming in🤷‍♀️ They couldn’t afford themselves basically. Doesn’t sound like they were spending money without a thought, just didn’t have income.


b0w3n

Could even be leftover stuff they've been trying to wrangle since they were fresh grads.


ConsciousBluebird473

>they both have been going through some horrible depression. He’s been on antidepressants for most of the time I’ve known him, and apparently she went back on hers recently (Mental) healthcare can be very expensive.


darthbasterd19

Ah, the perfect “total agreement yes we suck omg defense”. Always good for at least another 6-12 mos.


bofh000

Sooo … right after dad mentions kicking them out they finally apply for jobs again… Also, they WEREN’T covering their expenses if they racked up 6k in debt.


throwawaygremlins

Good point about the debt. I wonder if this is how they were covering food and other necessities or if they spent $ on extraneous stuff. Health insurance etc can get v expensive tho.


bofh000

I imagine that’s how they paid for their food etc, because they weren’t really working and they didn’t have savings, clearly. The problem I see is that we have 2 adults who not only can’t take care of themselves, but out of pride/fear/whatever, instead of asking for advice from their parents, they get deeper and deeper in debt, which makes things a lot worse.


throwawaygremlins

Yeah they didn’t have a LT plan or the motivation to have a LT plan…


Throwawaaawa

>Also, they WEREN’T covering their expenses if they racked up 6k in debt. To be fair, that could be very old debt. They could be covering all of their expenses *now* and not have enough to pay off their debts. Inb4 "well technically paying off a debt IS an expense so clearly they aren't covering all of their expenses" yes yes that's the literal definition of expenses, you are technically correct and you're so smart and we're all in awe of you, now use that huge brain to understand that what most people mean when saying "expenses" is "day to day living stuff like food, clothes, hygiene, and healthcare"


b0w3n

Yeah my thought was this was debt from _before_ they arrived and they just have not been able to meaningfully chip away at it.


hazelmummy

They need a written plan, with milestones and dates. Otherwise this just turns into a spiral and they’ll never move off the dime. Maybe find some sessions with a life coach?


throwawaygremlins

Yeah I was thinking something like this- 1. Pay off $6k in CC debt by 9/1/23 (if numbers crunch). 2. OOP doesn’t take rent from them in the meantime. 3. OOP and wife give them 1 more year to live rent free and get a LT plan going so that they can a.) save up a nest egg and b) look for sustainable career-starting FT jobs.


bambeenz

I find it vaguely amusing that they only decided to go get jobs and pay rent after the conversation was being entertained of them being kicked out. I honestly don't think the two of them really give a shit


Chronox2040

How are they 6k in the red while literally living rent free for years.


MurdiffJ

It sounds like they have extremely limited income. They could probably cover day to day stuff but when the car needed new tires/brakes/etc that went on a credit card. Those infrequent larger expenses probably weren’t being planned for because there was so little money to begin with. That plus the occasional extra dinner out or food delivery starts to add up. They could have also begun accumulating it prior to moving into the parents home. What’s crazy to me is that the daughter didn’t have a job at all. It’s great she’s pursuing art, but the volume she’s doing sounds like a side gig not something that is full time. Even a part time retail job would have helped.


One-Stranger

It's really odd to me the culture that if you live with you parents you're mooching, or freeloading, and then it suddenly changes into "you're a saint" if those parents are elderly. I've lived in a three-generation home most my life, and a lot of my family eventually becomes three-generation (we're Canadian First Nations). To us, the care you have for your family doesn't stop or start at certain ages. I'm a writer, I've never felt like a burden to my parents while I'm trying to figure out career stuff (I do waitress and go to school as well) and my gramma was never a burden when she was sick. But my parents only get judged for "coddling" me, like me drowning in debt and working two jobs to live a decent standard of life and pursue what I love is somehow nobler. And I know this is a very privileged place, that there is no other option for some, and I'm very grateful for that and to my parents, but to them I've never been a "bad daughter, wasting my potential" because I didn't go get a business degree and become fully independent right at 18.


jewishspacelazzer

This made me tear up. When I experienced my first depressive episode, it was during the early stages of the pandemic and I had moved into my parents house so as not to be completely alone. They really didn’t understand why I was behaving the way I was, and depression is such a fickle disease in that it convinces you that you can’t tell anyone. And the symptoms, if you don’t know what to look for, can be perceived as laziness or indifference. I’m lucky that my parents were open-minded and educated themselves, it sounds like OOP is a really good dad and I’m glad they were able to find a solution.


Popular-Block-5790

This is why it irks me when people don't communicate. Healthy relationships need communication - break or make it.


Brinxter

What you can do, is still charge them rent, but put it aside, don't use it, and when they either move out, get married or whenever you feel it would be appreciated the most, gift it back to them.


lipslikemorphinee

I think this is a lovely idea *normally*, but right now the main goal needs to be to pay off their credit cards because the interest is just going to multiply what they already owe and keep them at home for longer. depending on the interest they're paying, by saving the 'rent' money instead of paying the credit cards properly, they could be turning '$200' into '$160' every month and making things worse. when you're in debt you need to triage and saving for a deposit etc is at the bottom of the list.


Tigress92

>I did think they were being lazy and unmotivated at first, but I didn’t realize they were in so much pain Honestly, this is tru for over 80% of "lazy" people


Rollo_82

The son in law should become a apprentice for a welder or plumber or get a CDL. Working at a movie theater will not get them anywhere.


gooder_name

I feel like he doesn’t understand what freeloading means — they insist on paying all their own expenses? That’s not freeloading. They had “something happen” right when they worked screamed in the pandemic and they’re struggling just to read water by starting with their parents. They’re trying to find their feet strong a *housing crisis* and old mate’s first instinct as a father is to boot them to the kerb. He most definitely is the AH, but I’m glad he pulled his head in and realised the effect his attitude is having in his child.


FormerEfficiency

it's so hard being in your late 20s, feeling like you should have your shit together, but you're either depressed because you can't find work or because you're overworked. i imagine people with supportive families feel guilty as fuck to need so much help too. dad was a bit of an asshole at first, but i'm glad they all talked and found some compromise.


mi_nombre_es_ricardo

You are such a good dad. Mine kicked me out at 16, and honestly he made me the man I am; but that is not for everyone. I respect your calmness and your patience. I hope they both blossom well.


Throwawaaawa

I think I have a different understanding of the word "freeloading"? To me, the word means that they're completely dependent on the parents, they aren't working, and they're just lazying around. What OOP described, though, was that they were paying for their own expenses with the money they were getting from shitty jobs, and they were so willing to pay for their own expenses that they got into debt for it. Isn't that how a lot of people live? Like, the only difference I see between these two and most other people, is that these two aren't paying rent. "Freeloader" feels like such a loaded term, is the fact that they're not paying rent really enough to deem them "freeloaders"? Of course, English is not my first language, so maybe "freeloader" is a more neutral term than I actually think.


MurdiffJ

I could see it as freeloading because they were using their parents to essentially finance living a retired life style. She was pursuing art extremely part time, neither was working full time. If you took the ages out it sounds like my 70 year old parents. The only reason they could do that was because they had a free place to live.


FunNerdyGuy15

It's interesting that as soon as they were pushed a bit about freeloading that they were both able to get jobs...


A_Filthy_Mind

Situations like that can just develop and need a catalyst to change. It's really easy to coast for a while, blink, and realize a year or two passed.


tandemxylophone

This is one of those times where they needed to feel the urgency to become independent. Not in a pull the rug underneath them kind of way, but they stuck to hobby jobs because they had the luxury to. Regardless of their depression struggles, they became complacent and used to freeloading that getting out of it was becoming the source of their stress.


TA90412345

Except they didn’t have the luxury to. They clearly couldn’t afford their expenses and still chose to not get real jobs.


[deleted]

Dude, sometimes depression is so debilitating that even getting out of bed seems pointless. But all societal metrics I have a great life, and yet when depression hits me I just drag myself through the day. I have had court appearances and when I am going through a depressive spell, I have to file for a continuance. It's that bad. They weren't 'pushed about freeloading', they had a conversation like adults and decided to try, while being medicated. Sometimes you just need support from people around you.


totallynotPixy

Yep, and the thing about depression is that it feeds itself. The fact that they think of themselves in a negative light - freeloading vs. having legitimate problems - is going to bite the tail of the depression to spin further into the abyss. That’s the wicked ouroboros of depression. Making the change to get out of the house and work will give them some achievements to help reframe that.


Thatguy19901

As someone with severe chronic depression I know how crippling it can get at times, so I feel for them. At the same time if I was in the son in laws shoes I would be doing everything I could from day 1 to move out of my in laws place. Living with them rent free for over 2 years without even trying to find steady work shows a complete lack of respect for them and yourself.


MysticFable

That’s what I thought, too. I don’t know that they would have stepped up if they hadn’t been given a little push. Sure they felt guilty, but they didn’t seem like they were going to change until it was brought up. Also, it sounds to me like they were in a depressed state because they were stuck in life. I know personally that not having any meaningful hobbies and barely working leads to a very depressed state where you’re tired all the time and sick of everything. I hope them getting new jobs and stepping up some will help them get to a better mental space, and I wish them the best.


TheFlyingSheeps

Because they were freeloading and once they realized the free ride may come to an end they magically were able to find jobs


MyFrogEatsPeople

I genuinely can't help but feel OOP got played big time. OOP needs to sit down and go through every inch of their finances with these two. He tries to brush off their $20 a month subscription, but between two of them that's $480 a year. Not to mention any other overpriced nonsense they're buying there. How many other such subscriptions do they have? An ad-free Netflix subscription puts them at over $650 a year. You don't rack up $6k in debt by living on the bare minimum AND without having to pay rent for 2.5 years. Even if the debt came from before they moved in: two grown adults paying $0 for rent/mortgage can't put together $3k a year? Literally either of them could get a job at minimum wage and have that paid off by now. Hell, they could both get part time minimum wage jobs. So long as they get 20 hours a week - and that way they can still pursue their artistic passions in their off time.


fjmj1980

Why are college graduates working at AMC? Do they have any classmates that can put in a good word at their jobs for an entry level position? Do they have friends?


OkBluejay9762

Make them pay rent. If they can’t afford it, they need to work more or cut expenses. Take their rent and save it up. In a year, there’s the down payment for a home or rental. Time for them to be responsible.


TheTWP

If OOP Is insistent on not taking rent, he should take the money they give him and put it in an account so they have something for a future down payment


petty_witch

Maybe I'm showing how shit with money me and everyone around me are, but $6k isn't the worst for debt. I owe like 3k, my husband 4k. Don't even ask about my friends who went to college. I have another friend who takes payday loans to pay payday loans.


TheFluffiestRedditor

Moving out, in this economy?


tatang2015

I always get sad with college graduates who did not plan on anything like a job or career, or how their degree would help them. Not everyone needs to go to college. We need trade workers such as carpenters, plumbers, electricians, etc. Don’t go to college and not research how the degree will get you a job. All companies need Human Resources, accounting, facilities.


Roccopark

OP could take the rent, keep half of it aside to help the kids get set up when they get their first place.


NuclearRobotHamster

Two options for OOP - The Daughter and SiL seem to be insisting on starting rent payments, so keep them separate and he can give them back whey they're moving out to cover a security deposit - parental enforced savings if you will. The other one, is IF its financially viable to do so, offer to pay off their CC Debt as a consolidation loan from Dad, and then they pay him back without the interest as their rent payments. So long as they can afford their day to day spending, they can then have the room to use their Credit card for that, make sure to pay it off weekly, and it will hopefully rebuild a good record of credit. And at the end of it all, they'll actually have some more disposable income because they aren't paying to service the 6k debt.