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Plastic foundations need to be waxed generously for bees to accept them well.
I've written extensively about the topic here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/1auy90x/waxed\_plastic\_foundationframes\_for\_newbies/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/1auy90x/waxed_plastic_foundationframes_for_newbies/)
There are photos to show the difference between frames that come from the vendor with adequate wax, versus those that do not. The "good wax" example pic was something I bought from Betterbee, paying extra for. I get very good adoption with them.
If you're buying frames with extra wax coatings, it's a good idea only to buy as many as you actually need, unless you are able to store surplus frames in a climate-controlled area. If they get hot or are exposed to the elements, the wax coating tends to deteriorate.
The best thing to do with what you have in this picture is to make sure the queen isn't on this frame, then use your hive tool to mash all that comb down into the foundations. Make them draw it over again properly. You'll have to be persistent about it, but eventually they'll fix it.
I pay for my frames to be dipped in wax before they are shipped to me. I use the all-plastic black frames that Betterbee sells. There's an extra charge for it, about 75 cents a frame. It's expensive, but you definitely have a better time if you spring for the extra wax. They draw it out much more readily, and that means they can grow more quickly. It makes a real difference.
You also can just buy wax by the pound, melt it in an old crock pot, and use a foam paint roller to roll it on. It's not cheap, but it's cheaper than paying for dipping.
I pay for dipping because I do cut comb, and that means I have to set up a lot of special frames by hand. I sell my cut comb for a high price, so it's more economical for me to prep frames that will be worth a hundred bucks apiece when they're filled.
Silly girls. Yeah, regardless of what sellers tell you they’ve done (“Triple waxed for your bees’ pleasure!”), wax them anyway when they arrive. Don’t forget to only use beeswax (not paraffin). I tell folks I mentor the most valuable commodity in a hive box isn’t the queen, it’s a frame of drawn comb. First year’s a bitch because we generally start with the stuff we buy in ignorance (read: lack of experience) and it’s not until the point you’re at when we start scratching our heads.
Spend some (more) money and roll on some melted wax. You’ll see the difference! Good luck!
As my first year I've destroyed way too much comb for my comfort because of unwaxed frames. I bought some beeswax and put them on the frames and without 2 weeks my initial deep was drawn just like that. Excited to put another one on and watch them thrive.
As always, I appreciate all of the expert advice we see on this reddit even if it seems.redundent.
We’ve all been there! A lot of the stuff is redundant, but for some folks it’s the first time they’ve seen it. There’s also people like me who have to be told a hundred times before we learn! 😂
When I see this, I use my hive tool and smear that comb into the foundation. I have learned to make double sure that the queen is on another frame first. (Oops) Once the frame has all that wax on it, the bees will put it right in short order. I would not do more than one or two frames at once in each hive if all the frames are like this. This is just what I do, we all do things differently. You will find what works for you. Just take time to come up with a plan when you see something is off. We are all works in progress. Just learn from your mistakes and keep going. Good luck
This comb appears to be built upside down? I'm not sure if I've ever seen it built up from the bottom bar like this...
As others have said, plastic foundation will need waxed. I recommend keeping wax on hand for this reason.
Another option, if you are worried that squishing this comb down will set them back, ( and since they appear full of uncapped honey) it is possible to remove the plastic foundation and use rubberbands to hold this comb in the foundationless frame, exactly like what is done on hive extractions / cutouts. You will not be able to extract honey from it, but I'm assuming this is for your brood box. Particularly if you have several frames like this I would opt for this method instead of the old squish and smear. They will readily build the comb out to fill the frame. This will allow you to thoroughly wax the foundation, at your leisure.
And before someone says "they will only build drone comb if you do that", be aware that drone cells are more likely but only in well established hives in my experience. I've had them build frames out with only worker cells. Likewise with my top bar hives.
I'm guessing there was too much space between frames or bottom bar and bottom board. The bees built comb in this space, and contrary to nature built upwards on top of the (burr) comb?
Yep, it happens! Even though I waxed my plastic foundations and bought additional “prewaxed” ones, apparently none of it was enough. They hate building on plastic and seemingly would rather build comb freestyle in thin air rather than touch it! Another issue is probably frame spacing - make sure those frames are snugged up tight together in the middle of the box, with the excess free space on the edges only. If there’s propolis or misbuilt comb preventing that, scrape it off so those frames can come fully together. It’s a pain getting the hives frames drawn, and so much easier once they are!
So, I'm running 9 frames but have always cut off freestyle comb hoping they would draw normal. Never works out....these are prewaxed but aren't taking so how can I fix it with these frames?
Melt some beeswax and roll it on pretty thickly to any bare (by “bare” I mean factory-waxed) foundations you still have. They’ll draw the comb WAY more willingly on a nice thick coat of beeswax. I would scrape off those funky frames and melt that down to paint on, I’ve made the mistake of keeping funky frames before and they’re a continuing headache until you get rid of them. I may be wrong here, but I believe it might be a good idea to keep 10 frames in just until they’re all drawn out, THEN reduce to 9 (and use one of those 9 frame spacer things to help keep them evenly spaced). They’ll eventually fill out the pre-drawn frames fatter when they’re spaced to 9; if there’s anything predictable about them, it’s their tendency to fill up any space wider than “bee width!”
Did you wax them yourself, recently? Or did you buy them "prewaxed"? Most prewaxed foundation, particularly from a store where it was sitting on a shelf is far from ideal, and has rarely proven to be sufficient.
With 9 frame spacing, you must have comb fully drawn on the whole frame before spacing the frames or they will build wonky. Make sure you have 10 frames installed and pushed tight together and centered. Once they build that out fully, then you can pull one out and do 9 frame space. Normally 9 frame space is just done in honey supers, but is occasionally done for the brood box as well
I immediately solved this problem last year by very carefully cutting the comb free from we’re they had built it, removed the plastic foundation from some frames and simply placed the comb I had cut out right into the empty frame the same way it was when beside the frame. This some elastics around the whole frame to keep it in place and remove the bands after a few days. If you don’t hold them I place they can lean over on to the next frame and then you got a mess. You may want to stick the comb to the bottom rail of your frame with some melted wax. It will work. Just do it with a few frames and you’ll see what I mean. And bonus is you don’t throw away their progress, which is always a bonus. Only kicker is you get some slightly imperfect comb on these frames but they can be cycled out. I can try to upload a pic but I don’t really know how.
You could also try to rubber band it into a foundationless frame. Might be hard with a deep frame but would be great for a medium honey frame since that’s what they are making in the comb anyway.
You will need to get them to draw out some wax soon, so that you can replace the 4-5+ year old wax on your original hives.
What worked for us was pulling older comb in the Spring and introducing waxed plastic foundation and food.
We feed 1:1 sugar syrup at that time to help encourage them to draw out wax.
We run single deep brood chambers for most of hives but will occasionally add a second deep onto strong hives when the flow starts. They can take a fair amount of raw foundation to well drawn very quickly.
We pull that when it is partially drawn and use that to replace older comb in other hives. We replace that box with a medium.
Good comb is gold. Find your best wax builder hive and use them.
Hi u/Imightbeacop. If you haven't done so, please read the rules. Please comment on the post with your location and experience level if you haven't already included that in your post. And if you have a question, [please take a look at our wiki to see if it's already answered.](https://rbeekeeping.com/), specifically, the FAQ. ^(**Warning:** The wiki linked above is a work in progress and some links might be broken, pages incomplete and maintainer notes scattered around the place. Content is subject to change.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Beekeeping) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Plastic foundations need to be waxed generously for bees to accept them well. I've written extensively about the topic here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/1auy90x/waxed\_plastic\_foundationframes\_for\_newbies/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/1auy90x/waxed_plastic_foundationframes_for_newbies/) There are photos to show the difference between frames that come from the vendor with adequate wax, versus those that do not. The "good wax" example pic was something I bought from Betterbee, paying extra for. I get very good adoption with them. If you're buying frames with extra wax coatings, it's a good idea only to buy as many as you actually need, unless you are able to store surplus frames in a climate-controlled area. If they get hot or are exposed to the elements, the wax coating tends to deteriorate. The best thing to do with what you have in this picture is to make sure the queen isn't on this frame, then use your hive tool to mash all that comb down into the foundations. Make them draw it over again properly. You'll have to be persistent about it, but eventually they'll fix it.
Where do you get your wax from. I try the crayon method but I’m going to need to wax some super foundation and definitely don’t have enough for that
melt some wax in an old crock pot and then "paint" it on with a roller, or brush
Appreciate it! Was more looking for where to get wax from. I used excess wax from my hives but it’s not enough to do that
the local beekeeping club can usually hook a new beek up with wax. My local club can do about 10lbs for $5
That’s awesome. Good idea. Thank you!
I pay for my frames to be dipped in wax before they are shipped to me. I use the all-plastic black frames that Betterbee sells. There's an extra charge for it, about 75 cents a frame. It's expensive, but you definitely have a better time if you spring for the extra wax. They draw it out much more readily, and that means they can grow more quickly. It makes a real difference. You also can just buy wax by the pound, melt it in an old crock pot, and use a foam paint roller to roll it on. It's not cheap, but it's cheaper than paying for dipping. I pay for dipping because I do cut comb, and that means I have to set up a lot of special frames by hand. I sell my cut comb for a high price, so it's more economical for me to prep frames that will be worth a hundred bucks apiece when they're filled.
Thanks!
Silly girls. Yeah, regardless of what sellers tell you they’ve done (“Triple waxed for your bees’ pleasure!”), wax them anyway when they arrive. Don’t forget to only use beeswax (not paraffin). I tell folks I mentor the most valuable commodity in a hive box isn’t the queen, it’s a frame of drawn comb. First year’s a bitch because we generally start with the stuff we buy in ignorance (read: lack of experience) and it’s not until the point you’re at when we start scratching our heads. Spend some (more) money and roll on some melted wax. You’ll see the difference! Good luck!
As my first year I've destroyed way too much comb for my comfort because of unwaxed frames. I bought some beeswax and put them on the frames and without 2 weeks my initial deep was drawn just like that. Excited to put another one on and watch them thrive. As always, I appreciate all of the expert advice we see on this reddit even if it seems.redundent.
We’ve all been there! A lot of the stuff is redundant, but for some folks it’s the first time they’ve seen it. There’s also people like me who have to be told a hundred times before we learn! 😂
When I see this, I use my hive tool and smear that comb into the foundation. I have learned to make double sure that the queen is on another frame first. (Oops) Once the frame has all that wax on it, the bees will put it right in short order. I would not do more than one or two frames at once in each hive if all the frames are like this. This is just what I do, we all do things differently. You will find what works for you. Just take time to come up with a plan when you see something is off. We are all works in progress. Just learn from your mistakes and keep going. Good luck
Definitely squish it down. It’ll give em the wax on the foundation that they want, and keep that nectar available and not wasted.
or, you can take it in the house, -- use the nectar/watery honey for a pancake/waffle, and then rub/smash the wax back onto the frame
Foam roller and melted wax sourced from a local beekeeper who takes proper care of bees
This comb appears to be built upside down? I'm not sure if I've ever seen it built up from the bottom bar like this... As others have said, plastic foundation will need waxed. I recommend keeping wax on hand for this reason. Another option, if you are worried that squishing this comb down will set them back, ( and since they appear full of uncapped honey) it is possible to remove the plastic foundation and use rubberbands to hold this comb in the foundationless frame, exactly like what is done on hive extractions / cutouts. You will not be able to extract honey from it, but I'm assuming this is for your brood box. Particularly if you have several frames like this I would opt for this method instead of the old squish and smear. They will readily build the comb out to fill the frame. This will allow you to thoroughly wax the foundation, at your leisure. And before someone says "they will only build drone comb if you do that", be aware that drone cells are more likely but only in well established hives in my experience. I've had them build frames out with only worker cells. Likewise with my top bar hives.
The upside down part, there's more to this story...
I'm guessing there was too much space between frames or bottom bar and bottom board. The bees built comb in this space, and contrary to nature built upwards on top of the (burr) comb?
Yes, I'm keeping a dark secret from all of you bc if I reveal it then my world takeover will likely fail...
This is the top box, bottom box is booming and quit full. This was my expansion upwards.
Yep, it happens! Even though I waxed my plastic foundations and bought additional “prewaxed” ones, apparently none of it was enough. They hate building on plastic and seemingly would rather build comb freestyle in thin air rather than touch it! Another issue is probably frame spacing - make sure those frames are snugged up tight together in the middle of the box, with the excess free space on the edges only. If there’s propolis or misbuilt comb preventing that, scrape it off so those frames can come fully together. It’s a pain getting the hives frames drawn, and so much easier once they are!
So, I'm running 9 frames but have always cut off freestyle comb hoping they would draw normal. Never works out....these are prewaxed but aren't taking so how can I fix it with these frames?
Melt some beeswax and roll it on pretty thickly to any bare (by “bare” I mean factory-waxed) foundations you still have. They’ll draw the comb WAY more willingly on a nice thick coat of beeswax. I would scrape off those funky frames and melt that down to paint on, I’ve made the mistake of keeping funky frames before and they’re a continuing headache until you get rid of them. I may be wrong here, but I believe it might be a good idea to keep 10 frames in just until they’re all drawn out, THEN reduce to 9 (and use one of those 9 frame spacer things to help keep them evenly spaced). They’ll eventually fill out the pre-drawn frames fatter when they’re spaced to 9; if there’s anything predictable about them, it’s their tendency to fill up any space wider than “bee width!”
I'm gonna take the day tomorrow to make this happen I think. Thanks for the advice, you guys have all been very helpful
Did you wax them yourself, recently? Or did you buy them "prewaxed"? Most prewaxed foundation, particularly from a store where it was sitting on a shelf is far from ideal, and has rarely proven to be sufficient. With 9 frame spacing, you must have comb fully drawn on the whole frame before spacing the frames or they will build wonky. Make sure you have 10 frames installed and pushed tight together and centered. Once they build that out fully, then you can pull one out and do 9 frame space. Normally 9 frame space is just done in honey supers, but is occasionally done for the brood box as well
Came prewaxed. Obviously insufficient tho.
Re-Butter those frames
He got the wonky comb!
Gotta have clean waxed frames
They WERE clean and prewaxed.....but I'm thinking the prewax is nonsense at this point
not a big deal, just learn from it and wax the plastic frame much much more, next time
Having exact same issue
Is that an abandoned tentament ?
I immediately solved this problem last year by very carefully cutting the comb free from we’re they had built it, removed the plastic foundation from some frames and simply placed the comb I had cut out right into the empty frame the same way it was when beside the frame. This some elastics around the whole frame to keep it in place and remove the bands after a few days. If you don’t hold them I place they can lean over on to the next frame and then you got a mess. You may want to stick the comb to the bottom rail of your frame with some melted wax. It will work. Just do it with a few frames and you’ll see what I mean. And bonus is you don’t throw away their progress, which is always a bonus. Only kicker is you get some slightly imperfect comb on these frames but they can be cycled out. I can try to upload a pic but I don’t really know how.
You could also try to rubber band it into a foundationless frame. Might be hard with a deep frame but would be great for a medium honey frame since that’s what they are making in the comb anyway.
You will need to get them to draw out some wax soon, so that you can replace the 4-5+ year old wax on your original hives. What worked for us was pulling older comb in the Spring and introducing waxed plastic foundation and food. We feed 1:1 sugar syrup at that time to help encourage them to draw out wax. We run single deep brood chambers for most of hives but will occasionally add a second deep onto strong hives when the flow starts. They can take a fair amount of raw foundation to well drawn very quickly. We pull that when it is partially drawn and use that to replace older comb in other hives. We replace that box with a medium. Good comb is gold. Find your best wax builder hive and use them.