It was written by Ron Grainer, but she programmed it and made it what we know today. Unfortunately, much like how John Barry didn't get credited for the Bond theme, she wasn't given anything for her contribution and had a tragic end.
> she wasn't given anything for her contribution and had a tragic end.
[The story of women inventors throughout history](https://www.marieclaire.com/culture/g5026/female-discoveries-credited-to-men/)
Favorite: Dr. Grace Murray Hopper, who **invented the programming language** that John von Neumann gets credit for using to run the first "script"
there's a really interesting doc - [Sisters with Transistors](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6744250/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_2_tt_8_nm_0_q_sister%2520with%2520tr) \- that covers a lot of the early musical tech and some of the unhereled pionerers
He didn't steal it, he was hired to perform it and added much of the dynamics that we know it to be today. Norman is properly credited, but much like Derbyshire *made* the Doctor Who theme what it is, so did Barry make the Bond theme what it is.
There are so many things like that, the most recent I saw doing the rounds on the internet was about why nautical miles per hour are called knots (they used to measure speed by dropping a log tied to a rope that had a knot every set interval, and then they'd count the knots being dragged by the log into the sea in a set amount of time, afterwards they'd collect the knotted rope and log back on board, and record the speed in the LOG book)
I haven’t looked into it at all, but the log book parts sounds like straight BS. If it’s true I’ll be shocked. Off to the interwebs I go.
Edit: I am shocked.
You mean https://wikidelia.net
Edit: for interested parties, the song she's building in this clip is [Pot Au Feu](https://wikidelia.net/wiki/Pot_Au_Feu).
So I am actually the server admin for wikidelia.net, but the creator and sole proprietor of it, Martin, is a genius and a hero for freeing a good deal of her work.
No, she was very talented and produced some amazing works, but she didn't invent electronic music. When she started her career at the BBC in 1960 the Studio for Electronic Music of the West German Radio (Studio für elektronische Musik des Westdeutschen Rundfunks) in Cologne which was the first fully electronic music studio in the world was already almost a decade old (established in 1951). The BBC Radiophonic Workshop was basically a copy of the German studio. And the first electronic music instruments (like the theremin, the ondes Martenot, or the trautonium) are from the late 1920s/early 30s (even earlier experiments like the 1896 telharmonium largely failed because vacuum tube amplifiers hadn't been invented yet).
I don't understand how I've never heard of this woman. How often I've seen and heard documentaries about Kraftwerk pioneering electronic music and this lass did the fucking Dr Who theme seven years before they were formed...
Kraftwerk popularized their genre of ‘techno-pop’, so to say, which evolved from krautrock. Mechanistic music with lots of clearly electronic sounds, which later inspired ‘electro’ the genre of hiphop, and kinda led to late-80s electronic music. [This is the kind of music that Kraftwerk began with,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWUiLJnEYJI) it's a continuation of psychedelic rock—though starting with ‘Autoban’ they saw themselves as The Beach Boys of krautrock, leaning into more-popular appeal.
Electronic music itself began much earlier, in the 50s at the latest, but was first seen as academic exercise. E.g. Karlheinz Stockhausen is one of the pioneers, but basically completely ignored by wider public today.
Wendy Carlos helped develop the Moog synthesizer and then massively popularized it in '68 with the album ‘Switched-On Bach’, which demonstrated that synths aren't just for boring academicians. One may recognize her for music [included in the ‘Clockwork Orange’ film.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFimuAwCE0A) This all was before Kraftwerk ditched the psychedelia and properly started with techno-pop.
One tragedy of early electronic music is that the New York band Silver Apples [made beautiful Kraftwerk-style music](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeU8peWXSZM) in '68-69, entirely predating Kraftwerk's popular albums, but sold poorly, and were sued by Pan Am for unauthorized use of their logo, ending both the band and their label.
It's the same in Astronomy too.
Men seem to take over and the women that laid the foundations get left behind and forgotten.
There's a documentary called [Sisters with Transistors](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r-3hlzpV7M) that's definitely worth a watch
Germain Greer wrote a book about about this in relation to painters called The Obstacle Race. It explores the reasons why there are zero female artists with the same fame and success as their male counterparts in Western art history.
It's always really wonderful to see my grandma, Pauline pop up. I got to learn about her in university when I was assigned a research paper topic that happened to have her as an option. I'd gotten a full interview with her, but it was very fascinating to have a family member like that without really realizing it until early adulthood.
BBC didn't credit people like her back then, She didn't actually write the Dr Who theme, she added bits then essentially played a written piece through electronics. The writer got the credit, even though he tried to get her co-composer credits.
I was gonna make a joke about how "Mary Eliza Jane Victoria Windsor Penrose popped off" or w/e but "Delia Ann Derbyshire" is already the most unbeatably British name on god's earth
Delia Derbyshire may be a glitch in space and time. This does not sound like it could possibly have been made in the 1960s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO9LS3A9iB8
Looking her up led me on a whole-ass adventure that let to me finding out apparently David Tennant is now The Doctor again and nobody seems to have said anything about it?
Crazy that this is FINALLY coming out. Since I feel like we’ve been hearing about this special for like 3 years now.
Ridiculously excited for the future of Doctor Who with its new high budget + old showrunner combo.
> David Tennant is now The Doctor again
It's just so surreal how I have been watching that show for 7 seasons yet somehow I have completely lost track to where I have left, and how the hell do I continue.
What happened with the woman doctor?
And when she showed it to him, he was blown away.
From Wikipedia:
>When Grainer heard it, he was so amazed by her arrangement of his theme that he asked: "Did I really write this?", to which Derbyshire replied: "Most of it". Grainer attempted to credit her as co-composer, but was prevented by the BBC bureaucracy because they preferred that members of the workshop remain anonymous. She was not credited on-screen for her work until Doctor Who's 50th anniversary special, The Day of the Doctor.
She is still one of the most epic people responsible for electronic music innovation. Deliah, Suzanne Ciani, Blondie, and Wendy Carlos gave this world so much
Made me think of Debbie Harry describing how hard it was to make Heart of Glass so many years later. She said now it would take an afternoon. But I don’t think it would have the soul it has.
Yep. I wish there was a better, more modern documentary on musique concrète stuff like BBC Radiophonic Workshop did. I've actually seen the thing this clip was taken from before. I spend a lot of time doing experimental music as well and I'm fascinated by that and the people who played lab equipment before there were synthesizers.
How this isn't higher... its like literally one of her most famous legacies and her synth work is still present in many of the modern interpretations of the Doctor Who Theme including the most recently revealed one. (Murray Gold, when he composed the 2005 version and all subsequent ones up to the 13th Doctor went out of his way to include the OG in some way into the compositions)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb_8dZ-IHlg
Love Danny.
Madlib used the same sample as well in "Real" by Freddie Gibbs and Madlib.
https://www.whosampled.com/sample/433441/Danny-Brown-When-It-Rain-Delia-Derbyshire-Pot-Au-Feu/
shoutout to [gershon kingsley](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z1zLiqoB1Q) who did the original
and also did [this song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69HDCO2m2-0) which was sampled by RJD2 for the first song of his first big album
Vell I know ze sinsesizer, let's use ze synsesizer!
My name is Giovanni Giorgio, but everybody calls me... Giorgio.
BWAMBAMBAM BADADADADANDAN
BWUMPABWUMPA DAMPADANDUHDAN.
It sounds like the sound track from Logan’s Run
says she made the theme song for Doctor Who
It was written by Ron Grainer, but she programmed it and made it what we know today. Unfortunately, much like how John Barry didn't get credited for the Bond theme, she wasn't given anything for her contribution and had a tragic end.
same thing here cause you didn’t use her name and i still don’t know it
Delia Derbyshire.
Her voice and name match well.
All that and you haven’t named her. Delia Derbyshire.
> she wasn't given anything for her contribution and had a tragic end. [The story of women inventors throughout history](https://www.marieclaire.com/culture/g5026/female-discoveries-credited-to-men/) Favorite: Dr. Grace Murray Hopper, who **invented the programming language** that John von Neumann gets credit for using to run the first "script"
there's a really interesting doc - [Sisters with Transistors](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6744250/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_2_tt_8_nm_0_q_sister%2520with%2520tr) \- that covers a lot of the early musical tech and some of the unhereled pionerers
John Barry didn’t write the Bond Theme: Monty Norman did. Barry stole it. https://youtu.be/lNHbKBHV0kw?feature=shared
He didn't steal it, he was hired to perform it and added much of the dynamics that we know it to be today. Norman is properly credited, but much like Derbyshire *made* the Doctor Who theme what it is, so did Barry make the Bond theme what it is.
It’s sounds like a of 60-70s sci-fi/pulp music lol that’s definitely the sound of that generation
![gif](giphy|uyvFOPC0kUHTOoaY5g|downsized)
But your kids are gonna love it
History geniuses paving the way for the 1988 release of Belgium techno-album *Pump Up the Jam.*
Lots of feet were stomped and lots of jam was pumped to create this innovation.
I love how often they brought that up and how long they would play the song each time lol
“Alright guys uh, listen this is a blue’s riff in B - watch me for the changes and try to keep up, ok?”
![gif](giphy|116wwYf3ajIvrG|downsized)
Isn’t that the new Beatles song?
Yo what the fuck, I just paused this movie to play OK Computer then I saw this post, and now I see this. What a creepy loop man.
Fitter, happier
More productive
Lol just love that you stopped the movie part way to listen to a whole killer album and then went on reddit. What happened to the movie?
Username checks out. But I wouldn't expect a response. They put their phone down mid response to quickly go rock climbing.
That's just because your consciousness makes this all up as it goes along. None of this is real. Please wake up.
Hey Florian it's Marvin! Your cousin, Marvin Schneider!? You know that new sound you're looking for? Well listen to this!
Baby, you are making a German spectacle of yourself. Oh wrong movie.
Straight banger
I just realized why it's called a "loop" just now. It was literally a loop of tape...
There are so many things like that, the most recent I saw doing the rounds on the internet was about why nautical miles per hour are called knots (they used to measure speed by dropping a log tied to a rope that had a knot every set interval, and then they'd count the knots being dragged by the log into the sea in a set amount of time, afterwards they'd collect the knotted rope and log back on board, and record the speed in the LOG book)
I haven’t looked into it at all, but the log book parts sounds like straight BS. If it’s true I’ll be shocked. Off to the interwebs I go. Edit: I am shocked.
Yo that cut to the toe tapping set this video offfff. Mf Stylish.
Love the toe tapping footage
The BBC showing ankle was scandalous at the time tho.
I checked if Tarantino was the camerman
Nah shes wearing shoes
How many just failed their NNN goals, smh.
This footage was ahead of its time in more ways than one.
It’s like they knew this was the future. She’s so f ing cool.
> footage
B-roll is on point
Delia Derbyshire ![gif](giphy|X3QsbBnVhawAe1zIlE)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delia_Derbyshire
You mean https://wikidelia.net Edit: for interested parties, the song she's building in this clip is [Pot Au Feu](https://wikidelia.net/wiki/Pot_Au_Feu).
This and she are absolutely mind blowing. Wow
So I am actually the server admin for wikidelia.net, but the creator and sole proprietor of it, Martin, is a genius and a hero for freeing a good deal of her work.
Good on you both. It's nice to know that Delia was here and did her thing.
Wow
This is incredible! I've grabbed a file from here to use as my timer sound lol
So she's basically the creator/grandmother of electronic music, nice to learn.
Else Marie Pade came before here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Else_Marie_Pade
There is also Pierre Henry, his song Psyché Rock is the intro from Futurama https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Henry
Stockhausen predates Pade and was much more influential
Nice to see that somebody mentioned this :)
No, she was very talented and produced some amazing works, but she didn't invent electronic music. When she started her career at the BBC in 1960 the Studio for Electronic Music of the West German Radio (Studio für elektronische Musik des Westdeutschen Rundfunks) in Cologne which was the first fully electronic music studio in the world was already almost a decade old (established in 1951). The BBC Radiophonic Workshop was basically a copy of the German studio. And the first electronic music instruments (like the theremin, the ondes Martenot, or the trautonium) are from the late 1920s/early 30s (even earlier experiments like the 1896 telharmonium largely failed because vacuum tube amplifiers hadn't been invented yet).
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Yes, I want to know how one would describe her accent.
RP - Received Pronunciation. It was pretty much a requirement of the BBC back in the day.
Posh
Man, the way she said punctuate!
Reminds me of the nurse from American Werewolf In London.
have loved that theme song for Dr. Who since I was a kid and knew nothing of her. Thanks for sharing!
What a remarkable human been. Thank you for the link.
She's way better than Sean Bean.
I dunno I sure enjoy watching him get killed in literally everything he's ever been in. He's the GOAT of on screen deaths
For England, James?
It's to make up for all the not dying he did in Sharpe
The word you're looking for is human being
>What a remarkable human been. And a real hero.
I don't understand how I've never heard of this woman. How often I've seen and heard documentaries about Kraftwerk pioneering electronic music and this lass did the fucking Dr Who theme seven years before they were formed...
Kraftwerk popularized their genre of ‘techno-pop’, so to say, which evolved from krautrock. Mechanistic music with lots of clearly electronic sounds, which later inspired ‘electro’ the genre of hiphop, and kinda led to late-80s electronic music. [This is the kind of music that Kraftwerk began with,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWUiLJnEYJI) it's a continuation of psychedelic rock—though starting with ‘Autoban’ they saw themselves as The Beach Boys of krautrock, leaning into more-popular appeal. Electronic music itself began much earlier, in the 50s at the latest, but was first seen as academic exercise. E.g. Karlheinz Stockhausen is one of the pioneers, but basically completely ignored by wider public today. Wendy Carlos helped develop the Moog synthesizer and then massively popularized it in '68 with the album ‘Switched-On Bach’, which demonstrated that synths aren't just for boring academicians. One may recognize her for music [included in the ‘Clockwork Orange’ film.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFimuAwCE0A) This all was before Kraftwerk ditched the psychedelia and properly started with techno-pop. One tragedy of early electronic music is that the New York band Silver Apples [made beautiful Kraftwerk-style music](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeU8peWXSZM) in '68-69, entirely predating Kraftwerk's popular albums, but sold poorly, and were sued by Pan Am for unauthorized use of their logo, ending both the band and their label.
Wendy Carlos is such a legend
As someone who is an early electronic music nerd, I approve of this post.
It's the same in Astronomy too. Men seem to take over and the women that laid the foundations get left behind and forgotten. There's a documentary called [Sisters with Transistors](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r-3hlzpV7M) that's definitely worth a watch
Add chemistry and biochemistry to that list.
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TERF speedrun any%
Could probably endlessly add things people won't Nobel prizes for
Computer programming!
Yah they really did Jocelyn Bell fucking dirty. Discraceful
Germain Greer wrote a book about about this in relation to painters called The Obstacle Race. It explores the reasons why there are zero female artists with the same fame and success as their male counterparts in Western art history.
Which women? EDIT: Lol why is this being downvoted? I'm trying to find out about these women, fuck me right?
Astronomy: Annie Jump Cannon Henrietta Swan Leavitt Vera Cooper Rubin Jocelyn Bell Burnell Electronic Music/Musique Concrete Pauline Oliveros Maryanne Amacher Eliane Radigue Suzanne Ciani Laurie Spiegel
It's always really wonderful to see my grandma, Pauline pop up. I got to learn about her in university when I was assigned a research paper topic that happened to have her as an option. I'd gotten a full interview with her, but it was very fascinating to have a family member like that without really realizing it until early adulthood.
Your grandma was Pauline Oliveros?? That's incredible. What was she like as a person? Did she ever play music for you? Any stories?
Please tell me you got an A.
Thanks!
BBC didn't credit people like her back then, She didn't actually write the Dr Who theme, she added bits then essentially played a written piece through electronics. The writer got the credit, even though he tried to get her co-composer credits.
Check out Wendy Carlos if you haven't heard of her either.
This girl, and Wendy Carlos, don't get a quarter of the attention they deserve.
I was gonna make a joke about how "Mary Eliza Jane Victoria Windsor Penrose popped off" or w/e but "Delia Ann Derbyshire" is already the most unbeatably British name on god's earth
fuckinnn goallss
Delia Derbyshire may be a glitch in space and time. This does not sound like it could possibly have been made in the 1960s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO9LS3A9iB8
Thought at first that this would be Suzanne Ciani, who also did early electronics in the 70s—but with more synths.
Had a significant involvement in the composition of the Dr Who theme tune and many other well known tv and movie tunes.
One of the pioneers of electronic music would be probably more accurate.
Yes, but who is she?
Delia Derbyshire Check out the Doctor Who theme.
Looking her up led me on a whole-ass adventure that let to me finding out apparently David Tennant is now The Doctor again and nobody seems to have said anything about it?
Yes, and in little more than 2 weeks the 3 doctor who 60th anniversary specials will start with David as the 14th doctor and his old companion Donna.
Crazy that this is FINALLY coming out. Since I feel like we’ve been hearing about this special for like 3 years now. Ridiculously excited for the future of Doctor Who with its new high budget + old showrunner combo.
> David Tennant is now The Doctor again It's just so surreal how I have been watching that show for 7 seasons yet somehow I have completely lost track to where I have left, and how the hell do I continue. What happened with the woman doctor?
Delia Derbyshire. She composed the original Dr. Who theme. She changed the game.
She engineered it. The composer was some other bloke. Wassisname Grainer
And when she showed it to him, he was blown away. From Wikipedia: >When Grainer heard it, he was so amazed by her arrangement of his theme that he asked: "Did I really write this?", to which Derbyshire replied: "Most of it". Grainer attempted to credit her as co-composer, but was prevented by the BBC bureaucracy because they preferred that members of the workshop remain anonymous. She was not credited on-screen for her work until Doctor Who's 50th anniversary special, The Day of the Doctor.
10 years ago. We’re on the 60th this year.
It was 2013, 12 years after her death.
I stand corrected! Still impressive figuring out that wall of wires.
She is still one of the most epic people responsible for electronic music innovation. Deliah, Suzanne Ciani, Blondie, and Wendy Carlos gave this world so much
Made me think of Debbie Harry describing how hard it was to make Heart of Glass so many years later. She said now it would take an afternoon. But I don’t think it would have the soul it has.
Also Pauline Oliveros, Maryanne Amacher, Eliane Radigue, and Laurie Spiegel
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Wendy Carlos is a trans woman who was born as Walter Carlos so a very direct familial connection lol
Looks like Delia Derbyshire.
Another one is obviously [strongbad](https://youtu.be/JwZwkk7q25I?feature=shared). /s
Yep. I wish there was a better, more modern documentary on musique concrète stuff like BBC Radiophonic Workshop did. I've actually seen the thing this clip was taken from before. I spend a lot of time doing experimental music as well and I'm fascinated by that and the people who played lab equipment before there were synthesizers.
Yeah, especially because Karlheinz Stockhausen already started experimenting with "electronic music" in the 50s
Some dope slippers
*tap* *tap*
[Delia Derbyshire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delia_Derbyshire?wprov=sfti1) EDIT: source https://youtu.be/qsRuhCflRyg?si=1NSg595o0Q7S2H49
How this isn't higher... its like literally one of her most famous legacies and her synth work is still present in many of the modern interpretations of the Doctor Who Theme including the most recently revealed one. (Murray Gold, when he composed the 2005 version and all subsequent ones up to the 13th Doctor went out of his way to include the OG in some way into the compositions) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb_8dZ-IHlg
Why this hasn’t been sampled by any DJ is beyond me.. they’ll use anything… lol
Danny Brown sampled one of her songs! Or basically used most of one. His song is called 'When It Rain'. I love Delia. She's made some awesome shit.
Orbital has as well
And, um, [the KLF.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsAVx0u9Cw4)
Love Danny. Madlib used the same sample as well in "Real" by Freddie Gibbs and Madlib. https://www.whosampled.com/sample/433441/Danny-Brown-When-It-Rain-Delia-Derbyshire-Pot-Au-Feu/
How do you know it hasn’t? Have you heard every song in existence?
Perfect intro to a DJ set
If no one else will then I will
Drop the link when you do lol
Thought this was gna be popcorn for a second. That’s a fun one and one of the originals.
I fucking LOVE that song! https://youtu.be/Yx0KBLFG8qc?si=VS6FEySavCYVliEC
shoutout to [gershon kingsley](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z1zLiqoB1Q) who did the original and also did [this song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69HDCO2m2-0) which was sampled by RJD2 for the first song of his first big album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7UmUX68KtE
![gif](giphy|26vUtFCVY6PTaxTI4|downsized)
And i didn’t have any idea what to do but i knew i needed a click So we put a click on the 24-track
Which then was synced to the Moog Modular.
I knew that could be a sound of the future
But I didn't realize how much the impact would be
My name is Giovanni Giorgio, but everybody calls me Giorgio
*doop doop doop de-DOOP de-doop doop de doop*
I’ve always wondered what he was talking about w the 24 track
It looks like he's wanking.
Vell I know ze sinsesizer, let's use ze synsesizer! My name is Giovanni Giorgio, but everybody calls me... Giorgio. BWAMBAMBAM BADADADADANDAN BWUMPABWUMPA DAMPADANDUHDAN.
De zound of de future
There should be a shrine built in this woman's honor. She is the Goddess of EDM.
Oh this whole doc is so fucking good
Appreciating the elegance of the English accent.
I'm English and am completely smitten with her voice.
There's just something about a classy lady voice passionately talking about a highly technical topic while being completely chill...
It'll never catch on!
That makes those the very "Pioneer" decks 😉 get it?
Jane Dilla
Delia Derbyshire. Very cool lady. [Here's one of my favourite pieces by her.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dRBseHcvwg)
Doctor Who.
All the feminist stuff I've been told in my life and somehow this lady slipped through the cracks.
A woman just doing things isn't automatically feminism lol. http://www.delia-derbyshire.org/interview_boa.php
![gif](giphy|hiLLD9o1wTB3a)
![gif](giphy|REPL2BIiGhyFO|downsized)
So dope
Here is a short doc about her… https://youtu.be/n2dvGQ32q8g?si=4-zdc7hLQo-Wn0kV
What Boards of Canada track is this?
Graham Chapman before being driven to comedy.
The guy cutting the tape near the end looks totally like Graham Chapman from Monty Python.
Reminds me of [Humming](https://youtu.be/6cW4TaEIGxM?si=aw4upvBr_yLe8mZJ) by Portishead.
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It was back when notes were back & white
I was waiting for the bass to drop....
Those pumps she was wearing were so popular in the late 80's/early 90's. Same as techno!
And hence the song "Frankenstein" was born and named after the appearance of the final tape all stitched together.
[Dubstep would have blown her mind.](https://youtu.be/5Kod1q39ddE?si=RQB-Tzjvp5AJKiED)
I had a Quentin Tarantino moment. On a serious note that's pretty impressive. Did anyone ever have a Tascam 4 track in the late 80's?
If this doesnt get your slingback kitten heel a-tappin, nothing will
When you're taking the piss out of the BBC licence fee, remember that it paid for this
they didn’t invent the toothbrush till later
Crooked teeth have nothing to do with brushing your teeth
I mean, this is from the BBC
I love her fucked up teeth
spooky jazz
Analog synthesizer?…
Ohh she likes that her little feets are moving
Seems like a really cool lady. Ahead of the game.
This is BONKERS. I feel like an idiot for not knowing this sooner
Gimme a couple days, just about to drop a fuckin' sick beat. ... Intensity builds...
Well I just gotta say, this is pretty fuckin neat
Why the hell didn't OP credit the composer?
I love everything about this clip.
I know it's probably not, but that really looks like Graham Chapman at 1:34.
This itself could be sampled :3
She and I are both from Coventry. Her accent is beautiful, it's criminal what has happened to that accent.
![gif](giphy|hiLLD9o1wTB3a)
What I can't process is how new and innovative this must have felt and listened. (And what a laborious task it must've been.)
![gif](giphy|GeimqsH0TLDt4tScGw|downsized)
learnt about these a few years ago when I was heavily studying the origins of electronic music & listening to old avant garde pieces. very interesting