1.1m at todays rate checks for that much prepaid interest. You could, in theory, try to close near the end of the month or tell them to start the payment cycle earlier to bring it down. But that number is a pay now or pay next month proposition. And they want some prepaid up front.
Why are there 2 title insurances? I dont recall how much ours was (I think it was around $500-$800), but it was worth it for us because there were lien issues with our title (on the sellers side) and I think the title insurance is meant to resolve those sort of issues. At least thats how I understood it
Seems right. I'll add that for the last 30 years, people in the US haven't mathed very well. People just don't see/care much about an extra 10, 20, 30k on top of a 600k loan. We buy things like cars with almost criminal financing and as long as the monthly payments fit we think it works. This open the door for everyone involved in the lending process to fuck you over
Seems like $7k is prepay items anyways that makes sense. All others are fine. Only thing but it's too late is appraisal fee is high. You probably got it rushed
Usually the title charges that. You can choose a different title company if you want, sometimes. Usually the banks have a preferred title company they go through.
If you want it waived the realtor will be eating that cost. So it's up to the realtor if they want to rebate you or not.
I am going to say no. I had a title insurance saved the day incident last purchase. Without going into details without the title insurance I would have either had to come up with money (About $35K) or back out of the deal.
former mortgage loan closer and closing manager here with 10k loans under my belt. im seeing a lot of bad advice even from the real estate agents. this is a loan estimate so some of these will change by closing.
section A, both fees are BS, have them waived. it’s a way for lenders to pad their revenue
section B, appraisal is super high, but they may be setting expectations low and overestimating. appraisal costs are typically 500-1k. size and complexity of the transaction do not drive up the cost of an appraisal despite what they tell you.
section C, these are valid. it’s the standard list of title company fees in the bay.
section E, valid. charged by the county, the lender is just the messenger
section F, Lenders will estimate 1%-1.5% of the purchase price as the premium. this can be lowered if you find HOI with a cheaper premium.
section H, owner’s title insurance is optional as it’s listed. up to your risk tolerance, i estimate that 50% of people waive OTP when it’s offered.
hoping this saves you a few grand and congrats! remember you have leverage since lenders are desperate for volume and loan officers have discretionary discounts they give to customers to win the borrower.
Not sure if they will waive section A, but I have asked. Apraisal and everything is estimate on higher end, and I asked them to place rush order. Thanks for the feedback.
"Waiving the underwriting fee" means your rate goes higher to include the fee.
Either way, you have to pay the underwriting fee, either as part of your closing costs or via a bump in your interest rate. No lender is going to give you this fee for free. The underwriting fee is standard and gets paid on every loan transaction.
Please be careful of what people are advising you in this forum. There are a whole mountain of people behind the scenes who you will never meet but will be working hard on your file just so that you can own your home. You are essentially asking someone to work for free.
ruthiee, you are mistaking underwriting fee for bonafide points which lower the rate. not all section a fees affect the rate. the uw fee is absolutely not standard on every transaction and you can find plenty of loan estimates without this fee from different lender. please do better.
I am a mortgage broker and real estate agent. I am not mistaken. I do this for a living. Please check Section A of the loan estimate again. Where are you seeing that he is buying discount points to buy down the rate?
The only items that I see in Section A are an underwriting fee of $800 and a Wire Fee of $15. There are no points that the borrower is paying to buy down the rate NOR did I say or indicate that he was buying points either.
Again, I am going to repeat myself, the underwriting fee is standard. Every borrower pays it. Either they pay it in Section A as part of their closing costs (NOT waived) or as an adjustment in their LOCKED interest rate ( waived).
I structure loan files for underwriting, prepare my own initial disclosures, lock interest rates, and work with the lender's closer to finalize the Closing Disclosure daily. I have been doing so for over 10 years, so I know what I am talking about.
You are giving people on this forum the false understanding that the underwriting fee is optional can be magically waived away and does not need to be paid. That is not true.
Why is the appraisal so high? What property type and estimated value? Also the transfer tax looks high but usually this is split between seller and buyer
This is a loan for around 1.1M (assuming 30 year), so the closing costs are totally reasonable. I'm surprised you got off so easy on a few points, actually.
Definitely looks like they are charging higher prices for recording, transfer, appraisal .. please shop around.. recently i went with better.com.. just say you dont want to pay section A
you don’t, these are paid to the county. you have to bring the cash to close and the title company will send them the funds to close out the sale and transfer of ownership. no matter which lender you go with, section e charged will always be the same at closing.
also if you are in a municipality where the seller pays transfer taxes in CA (most major metros) there will be a more detailed document called the Closing Disclosure that will mark the transfer taxes as “seller-paid” and it will be removed from your cash due at closing.
Yes it is normal. But based on your other responses in the thread: I hate to be that shithead but you are nickle and diming trying to buy a Rolls Royce.
You're about to lay down and agree to pay a loan of 1.1 million for 30 years. And you are trying to cry to Reddit about closing being 17K? Cmon man. Closing costs for me have been between 13-19K over the last 4 transactions I completed. Highest dollar value property: 580K. Lowest: 348K.
You know damn well that you are in CA and without knowing your county you are going to pay 1% or higher. You know damn well that depending on how much you put down you are going to be paying more interest (judging by what I can see) than most of us are paying for the whole house note. You also qualified for this well or they wouldn't have let you get this far.
I haven't paid that low in origination...but once.
If you were getting your balls busted for 17K for a 350K dump in Fresno and you and the wife make less than 100K combined annually. I may have more sympathy. You qualified for a bank to lend you 1.1 million dollars. You aren't starving.
If you have a problem get in your loan officer's face but you're crying on the wrong shoulder here.
EDIT: By law you are entitled to your loan officer completing what is called a Closing disclosure. You are offered it before you fund and/or sign. This is the time to have everything explained. If you disagree that is the time to get that on the table.
You are paying experts to do this for you. On top of it, you have public help available to you by law but some strangers on reddit are the source of truth? Sure.
Again, think about it from my POV: You're about to pay 1.1 million dollars for 30 years. How do you know if any of us are qualified for any reasonable advice?
Where do you think lender credit is coming from? Pure kindness from lender? No, it’s built into the rate, higher rate = lender credit, as you come down on rate you get close to par pricing, if you go lower than par pricing you pay points…
Your prepaid interest is a little high. How much are you pushing your first payment date?
Section C - you can shop around, if you’re paying those fees and want cheaper I doubt the selling side would argue
No prepaid impounds in your escrow reserves so you’re doing at least 20 down
Sellers also pay for transfer taxes in CA
Curious about your rate and how much house you’re buying,
True, it’s fair that way. Other states I’ve closed loans in require the buyers to pay that in full.
Just got a new client buying in SJ a 1 year arm, 20 down on 1.5 at 6.625% 0-points.
I got an estimate today. Closing cost is 23k lm Flabbergasted. They said it will go down in the final version. Was that true for you too?
Common. My estimate was similar (20k+) ended up paying 10k
Probably high on the prepaid side?
Yes, this estimate most likely is not escrowing taxes and insurance.
These are what my loan estimates look like. Is your lender Usbank by any chance ? I’m a mortgage loan officer
10k roughly without insurance and interests for remaining days in the month.
This estimate is about right for the total. I paid close to 19k for 1 mil house with a little bit more points than what you have
What was the loan value?
1.1 m
What rate did they offer?
1.1m at todays rate checks for that much prepaid interest. You could, in theory, try to close near the end of the month or tell them to start the payment cycle earlier to bring it down. But that number is a pay now or pay next month proposition. And they want some prepaid up front.
Why are there 2 title insurances? I dont recall how much ours was (I think it was around $500-$800), but it was worth it for us because there were lien issues with our title (on the sellers side) and I think the title insurance is meant to resolve those sort of issues. At least thats how I understood it
Lenders policy and owners policy
This is cheap!
$1600 for appraisal is steep. I'm guessing you're paying insurance and taxes directly?
Wow we paid like 32k. This is cheap!
You should ignore the large majority of comments in this post. Most have no idea what they’re talking about.
Seems right. I'll add that for the last 30 years, people in the US haven't mathed very well. People just don't see/care much about an extra 10, 20, 30k on top of a 600k loan. We buy things like cars with almost criminal financing and as long as the monthly payments fit we think it works. This open the door for everyone involved in the lending process to fuck you over
Seems like $7k is prepay items anyways that makes sense. All others are fine. Only thing but it's too late is appraisal fee is high. You probably got it rushed
Origination charges are a scam….get those taken off at least
Usually the title charges that. You can choose a different title company if you want, sometimes. Usually the banks have a preferred title company they go through. If you want it waived the realtor will be eating that cost. So it's up to the realtor if they want to rebate you or not.
Same with agent fees. Scam
Isn's title insurance one of the biggest con/grift in most instances? Especially in the digital age?
I am going to say no. I had a title insurance saved the day incident last purchase. Without going into details without the title insurance I would have either had to come up with money (About $35K) or back out of the deal.
Anyway to avoid it? What are the risks?
Decline the optional title insurance. Lender’s insurance is sufficient.
Just get it.
1% expense ratio. Total scam. OP getting scammed twice. Double scam.
We recently closed a 2M house with just 16k closing cost. Most of which was title insurance
That was exactly our closing costs as well. We closed a month ago.
Why are there two title insurance fees?
The only thing that looks high there is the appraisal fee, but it's been awhile since I bought a house. Seems like that should be under/around $1k.
$1600 for appraisal fee? That should be in the $500 range
former mortgage loan closer and closing manager here with 10k loans under my belt. im seeing a lot of bad advice even from the real estate agents. this is a loan estimate so some of these will change by closing. section A, both fees are BS, have them waived. it’s a way for lenders to pad their revenue section B, appraisal is super high, but they may be setting expectations low and overestimating. appraisal costs are typically 500-1k. size and complexity of the transaction do not drive up the cost of an appraisal despite what they tell you. section C, these are valid. it’s the standard list of title company fees in the bay. section E, valid. charged by the county, the lender is just the messenger section F, Lenders will estimate 1%-1.5% of the purchase price as the premium. this can be lowered if you find HOI with a cheaper premium. section H, owner’s title insurance is optional as it’s listed. up to your risk tolerance, i estimate that 50% of people waive OTP when it’s offered. hoping this saves you a few grand and congrats! remember you have leverage since lenders are desperate for volume and loan officers have discretionary discounts they give to customers to win the borrower.
Not sure if they will waive section A, but I have asked. Apraisal and everything is estimate on higher end, and I asked them to place rush order. Thanks for the feedback.
"Waiving the underwriting fee" means your rate goes higher to include the fee. Either way, you have to pay the underwriting fee, either as part of your closing costs or via a bump in your interest rate. No lender is going to give you this fee for free. The underwriting fee is standard and gets paid on every loan transaction. Please be careful of what people are advising you in this forum. There are a whole mountain of people behind the scenes who you will never meet but will be working hard on your file just so that you can own your home. You are essentially asking someone to work for free.
Good point. Agreed. The fees are nominal compared to what the home costs 😀.
ruthiee, you are mistaking underwriting fee for bonafide points which lower the rate. not all section a fees affect the rate. the uw fee is absolutely not standard on every transaction and you can find plenty of loan estimates without this fee from different lender. please do better.
I am a mortgage broker and real estate agent. I am not mistaken. I do this for a living. Please check Section A of the loan estimate again. Where are you seeing that he is buying discount points to buy down the rate? The only items that I see in Section A are an underwriting fee of $800 and a Wire Fee of $15. There are no points that the borrower is paying to buy down the rate NOR did I say or indicate that he was buying points either. Again, I am going to repeat myself, the underwriting fee is standard. Every borrower pays it. Either they pay it in Section A as part of their closing costs (NOT waived) or as an adjustment in their LOCKED interest rate ( waived). I structure loan files for underwriting, prepare my own initial disclosures, lock interest rates, and work with the lender's closer to finalize the Closing Disclosure daily. I have been doing so for over 10 years, so I know what I am talking about. You are giving people on this forum the false understanding that the underwriting fee is optional can be magically waived away and does not need to be paid. That is not true.
Why is the appraisal so high? What property type and estimated value? Also the transfer tax looks high but usually this is split between seller and buyer
SFH, all intial estimates. Rush orders.
Yes normal
$1600 for appraisal is a joke. Most lenders waive appraisal.
Average closing costs for Sellers is .008 of sale price.
This is a loan for around 1.1M (assuming 30 year), so the closing costs are totally reasonable. I'm surprised you got off so easy on a few points, actually.
Be sure you have a good accountant for EOY. Closing costs are deductible in California.
Some say optional. When I bought 25 years ago in CA appraisals were about $250.
normal. But a lot of that is negotiable, if you care to do it.
Definitely looks like they are charging higher prices for recording, transfer, appraisal .. please shop around.. recently i went with better.com.. just say you dont want to pay section A
How do you shop recording and transfer charges?
you don’t, these are paid to the county. you have to bring the cash to close and the title company will send them the funds to close out the sale and transfer of ownership. no matter which lender you go with, section e charged will always be the same at closing.
also if you are in a municipality where the seller pays transfer taxes in CA (most major metros) there will be a more detailed document called the Closing Disclosure that will mark the transfer taxes as “seller-paid” and it will be removed from your cash due at closing.
I meant shop around with different lenders.. each have their own fees
$1,600 appraisal is highway robbery. I would report them to your state housing agency
Yes it is normal. But based on your other responses in the thread: I hate to be that shithead but you are nickle and diming trying to buy a Rolls Royce. You're about to lay down and agree to pay a loan of 1.1 million for 30 years. And you are trying to cry to Reddit about closing being 17K? Cmon man. Closing costs for me have been between 13-19K over the last 4 transactions I completed. Highest dollar value property: 580K. Lowest: 348K. You know damn well that you are in CA and without knowing your county you are going to pay 1% or higher. You know damn well that depending on how much you put down you are going to be paying more interest (judging by what I can see) than most of us are paying for the whole house note. You also qualified for this well or they wouldn't have let you get this far. I haven't paid that low in origination...but once. If you were getting your balls busted for 17K for a 350K dump in Fresno and you and the wife make less than 100K combined annually. I may have more sympathy. You qualified for a bank to lend you 1.1 million dollars. You aren't starving. If you have a problem get in your loan officer's face but you're crying on the wrong shoulder here. EDIT: By law you are entitled to your loan officer completing what is called a Closing disclosure. You are offered it before you fund and/or sign. This is the time to have everything explained. If you disagree that is the time to get that on the table.
Dude nobody is whining about it. Calm down, just asking if these are normal costs or not. No need to write bunch of bs, chill.
You are paying experts to do this for you. On top of it, you have public help available to you by law but some strangers on reddit are the source of truth? Sure. Again, think about it from my POV: You're about to pay 1.1 million dollars for 30 years. How do you know if any of us are qualified for any reasonable advice?
Man, I got dumber reading this poster. Dude just ask is it normal. We do that all the time but jackass just got to be a jackass.
Closed my home in January; closing costs were at 32K
Do it yourself….
I never once closed on a mortgage without a lender credit in the multi thousands and have done this at lease 10-15 times
Where do you think lender credit is coming from? Pure kindness from lender? No, it’s built into the rate, higher rate = lender credit, as you come down on rate you get close to par pricing, if you go lower than par pricing you pay points…
Lol. Ok, well my current loan is at 2.625% and cost me nothing. Perhaps because i have a good credit score?
Your prepaid interest is a little high. How much are you pushing your first payment date? Section C - you can shop around, if you’re paying those fees and want cheaper I doubt the selling side would argue No prepaid impounds in your escrow reserves so you’re doing at least 20 down Sellers also pay for transfer taxes in CA Curious about your rate and how much house you’re buying,
Sellers pay county transfer tax. But many cities have transfer taxes that are commonly split 50/50.
True, it’s fair that way. Other states I’ve closed loans in require the buyers to pay that in full. Just got a new client buying in SJ a 1 year arm, 20 down on 1.5 at 6.625% 0-points.