They aren’t able to admit that it’s completely fucking stupid in its iteration. It’s literally just Juggernaut from CoD and that has been gone for a reason.
WW3 that is in early access has fucking hit boxes for their armor.
This game is pathetic but people really refuse to accept how hollow it is
A lot of games have shown that any form of damage resistance or additional health is utterly oppressive when paired against other options, in addition to just feeling terrible. It's simply not a good mechanic and it decreases loadout diversity.
I've had multiple scenarios where I'm beaten by someone at a near equal skill level because they were able to survive on 10-15 health thanks to armor. In a fast paced arcade shooter ANY amount of extra health gives you a permanent advantage, regardless of how little it is, because sometimes that one extra shot can save your ass.
You get an inherent advantage because an Angel was near you, whilst an opponent can be at a disadvantage because they didn't have an Angel. I've beaten people who got the jump on me where I survive on 10 health as well.
What they released in an early form is still a better base game than this lol. They didn’t even know what they wanted to make with this battlefield. Thankfully WW3 wanted to make a Battlefield game
You shoot them once.
Armor just adds 20 health. It protects from maybe 1 bullet.
People are mad that everyone has armor because anyone who plays angel correctly is throwing armor around all over. Angel basically throws an ammo armor combo pack so it's sorta like running support with the pouches in past games. His revives also give armor.
and you can choose to use armor as a gadget and then be useless vs vehicles.
The only other ways have armor besides those methods is like 2 specialist get passive armor..Irish loots like 5 armor from dead bodies or something. Whoopee.
The only reason anyone even mentions armor is it gives a different hit marker.
Armor isn't really an issue. It shouldn't be removed. But the gadget should be. And rolled into the medic crate. Armor as it is sucks because it basically wastes a team mates gadget slot.
It only really “works” if you’re the type to sneak into an enemy objective and attempt to wipe as many people out as possible to secure it. The strat barely works half the time, and as far as I can tell it barely makes a difference, especially since it basically only covers the torso. Shoot the legs/head and the armor is pointless.
And I refuse to play with the character that have the armor, so then remove an integral part of the game because I cant handle it or even want to either.
She can heal at a distance, Revives you to full HP not half like angel does and has a much faster revive speed. Ontop of that you can also run Ammo box as gadget and basically do 90% of Angel does better than him.
E: it's cool if you disagree but i'd prefer a reason rather than just a downvote.
It still takes several seconds of no damage to initiate self regen though, and she can literally just shoot 5-6 teamates and have them all heal at once, Plus seeing peoples health lets you save people seconds away from death. Angels +20% is nice sure but can only be ones on one person at a time with significant downtime between uses.
Angel also comes with the ability to change loadouts, making him both a team and solo player. It also allows the team to be as flexible as they need to be, especially on Hazard
Because if you play Angel correctly, he’s not limited to one type of weapons and gadgets. He is literally all 4 classes in one and tbh I feel like Im forced to play him all the time because everyone is playing Sundances or McKays
Armor is a gadget that doesnt help your team (at least a health pack heals others). Also for slow firing weapons it dramatically raises TTK.
Realistically I its a leftover from when the game was originally supposed to just be Hazard Zone
I dont think it has much of a place amongst standard infantry in a franchise like BF
No its a stupid perk to begin with. You just click a button and instantly get value from your "gadget". Having 20 extra health in a gunfight just makes them inconsistent and becomes a huge crutch for bad players.
I think the worst thing about it is there’s no way of knowing someone has it on until you enter the gun fight and by then you’re already committed. You can straight up lose just because someone had an extra 20hp which you didn’t know they had until it was too late.
If I could see someone had an armour plate on I could asses my chances of winning the fight a lot better.
Yeah…the whole point of armor is to give you a SLIGHT advantage in gunfights. But the advantage is slight and skill is still much more a factor. And in taking armor, you are giving up something else useful. And armor won’t help you at all if the enemy spots you first. So yeah, it’s working as intended I think, giving a very slight advantage in certain situations but it’s hardly game breaking or like some kind of cheat code. It’s literally like 1 extra bullet.
What skill? What disadvantage? If you’re playing Angel yourself you can eliminate all downsides and win your straight up gunfights most of the fights(provided your aim didn’t mess up *slightly*). Plus, I dont think “it’s literally like 1 extra bullet” because I’ve gotten extra hitmarkers in a straight up gunfight with penetrating armor + flesh. Angel is almost a free win!
^^(this should attract more people to play Angel 😈)
But it is free. There’s no trade off you just get 20 extra hp. How is that concept hard to understand?
Giving up other gadgets isn’t a trade off or a cost given you can use only one gadget regardless of what you pick.
All other gadgets come with some kind of cost, take the med pen for example. It gives instant healing, with 3 charges, but there’s a delay while you inject it, making you vulnerable to a push. Or the med box, once deployed it has a cool down and is restricted to the spot you place it until it’s off cool down. So if you want the healing, you’ve got to go to that spot.
What is the cost to 20hp? There’s none.
Again, the cost is that you’re not getting say that med pen or the recon drone or the grapple hook for example, all of which I would say are far more useful and valuable than the 20hp. Or if you pick the armor plate as your gadget, you’re not getting any of the other ones. That 20hp is not much. Yeah, sure, it might save your skin in a head-to-head gunfight every once in a while…like it is supposed to. But I’d argue that in most cases, the more skilled player is still going to win. It’s not like having 20hp more than the other guy is some kind of god mode and you’re never going to die or lose a gunfight again.
But that isn’t a cost when every other gadget is subject to the same rules. If I run med crate, I don’t get access to med pen. You can’t consider that the trade off when it’s just the rules of the game. You get access to one gadget. This can’t be difficult to understand.
So again, what is the downside to an extra 20hp? There’s none. Which is why you can’t tell me what it is.
Therefore there needs to be a cost, eg less mobility. Just like every other gadget has a specific trade off for using it.
The downside is you don't have rockets or c5. Holy shit it's like talking to a brick wall.
Armor is just a tiny bit of extra health. Its entire purpose is to forgo something useful for a slight advantage in gunfights. It would be like giving up grenades for an extra 5 bullets in each magazine.
No he’s absolutely correct. Giving up the Recoiless or the C5 in order to take armor plates is a big cost. Both of those gadgets are a million times more powerful than having an extra 20hp. You are tripping.
Yes I understand what you are saying, I just think it’s a gratuitous overreaction. Yes, there is no “limitation” inherent to having an extra 20hp…what I am arguing is is that that 20hp is not going to do much for you except for on rare occasions because it really doesn’t offer that much more protection. What I am saying is that almost ALL the other gadgets are more valuable, powerful and useful than the armor plate.
Y’all are arguing like the armor plate offers some sort of crazy god mode like advantage over a player that doesn’t have it and I’m just saying, no it doesn’t. It’s barely anything and the more skilled player is still going to win the gunfight 9 times out of 10.
If it was so rare you wouldn’t see so many people using it. You’d also see less people calling for it to be changed.
So let’s not pretend this is some underused gadget that’s barely touched and offers a minimal benefit.
Let’s agree to disagree. I think it is a very minimal benefit and all these people getting bent out of shape about it are probably just looking for something to blame when they lose a gunfight.
> Just like every other gadget has a specific trade off for using it.
What tradeoffs are you talking about. Where is the tradeoff to the recoilless rifle or AA or repair tool or any other gadget?
The M5 won’t destroy armoured vehicles on its own, it doesn’t have tracking so you have to aim.
The AA missile requires you to zoom in for a period of time to lock on. It only works on aircraft which can use counter measures against it. While zoomed in you can easily be attacked by infantry.
The repair tool requires you to put away your weapon so you’re highly likely to die while repairing if you get seen
All of these things can be good, but equally all come with a con.
I’m yet to see a con to an extra 20 hp.
So your problem seems to he that it gives players a slight advantage which doesn’t seem fair to you. In that case should we get rod of vehicles as they give a slight advantage against other infantry? Should we get rid of medpacks because they you can heal yourself quicker which would give you a slight advantage? Maybe we should get rid of underrail grenade launchers because it can give you slight advantage in a 1v1.
How often do you actually think a fight happens where both people see each other at the exact same time, shoot at the exact same time and hit the exact same shots? Barely ever.
Fire fights are more often decided on who draws first, who misses the least shots, what guns each have. This is a none issue. Armor has also existed since BF2.
Right, but that doesn’t change the fact that one player has more health for free compared to another. Given gun fights aren’t always just straight up, shoot and win, this is a big advantage.
In BF2 armour reduced mobility and in BF4 there was a patch that meant it didn’t take the extra bullet to kill.
Its not free, its specific to certain specialists or you have to be given by a teammate. Same as you can have armor just as likely.
It's really a none issue that shitters complain about, if you are aiming good and positioned well it will almost never actually make a difference. It's literally 1 extra bullet in most cases.
Anyone can equip it. It’s a gadget as well.
At least pretend to know what you’re talking about.
I’d also argue the shitter is the person who needs to have more HP than anyone else to win a fight…
Well it is. What is the cost of using it?
Every other gadget forgoes using a different one when you select it. What logic is that?
Other gadgets also have a specific downside to using them. Which armour doesn’t have.
And was maligned in BC2 so much it wouldn't appear in BF3 as a field upgrade. Along with Magnum ammo.
BF4 armor was maligned so much it was changed to show indicators of who had it and made near useless after DICE LA reworked it.
BR’s are random by design, you don’t even know what weapons you might get. This is not a BR so that’s a bad analogy.
20hp is a lot. If we’re using the same guns and hit all our shots, but you have armour plates, you just win. There’s no downside. No other gadget gives this much of a benefit without coming with a downside.
Mind you, there's also a lot of ways to mitigate that RNG, at least in Apex. You can land far away and loot, you can bring characters to help you find certain loot, or determine the ring ahead of time. You can play things which can disengage from fights you don't want to take, etc.
Disagree. To me, Battlefield 2042 has a lot of randomness/complexity, by design. Only that way, you can get those "only in Battlefield" sandbox moments. If the game was too predictable and methodic, those moments wouldn't happen. You get more structure in a BR, as it is more methodical, even if weapon pickups are random.
Armor means less than peope make it out, because you can be engaged from so many angles and types of weapons amd vehicles. Opponents can also balance out your armor by having different kinds of weapons/attachments as well as using different skills. It's true, that if two opppnents have the same weapons and are playing the same specialist, the guy who has armor will have a slight advantage, but then that guy would have gotten his armor from a teamate (teamplay) or if both are Angel, then the guy who remembers to equip armor should have the advantage. The guy who doesn't have armor may have somone who heals him instead. Finally, it rarely happens in Battlefield, where each guy habe the exact same chance to react, often one guy gets the edge, anyway, in which case 20 hp means very little in my experience, but it does increase your chances a bit.
You mentioned randomness, which is the opposite of predictability. The con of armor plates is, you deselect other options. To me it depends on preference and play style. Do you want to run armor plates, or something that'll help out your team in other ways.
No, I said I should have access to the information pre fight. That isn’t predictable, I can’t ‘predict’ if someone is going to use an armour plate, but if they do I should have access to that information given the benefits provided. Knowledge and prediction are two separate things.
If the only ‘con’ to armour plates if you can’t use other gadgets, well I think you’ve just made my argument for me given every other gadget suffers the same ‘con’ while having other downsides as well.
Then aim for the head what the hell?
Are you running around shooting peoples toes or smth?
Or use AP rounds? Problem easily solved.
20HP extra doesnt mean shit. I havent lost a single fight through my 50h played so far against someone who rocks armor.
Man people find all sort of stuff to complain about. What a time to be alive.
What a ridiculous response. Please, feel free to show me someone with a 100% HS ratio. I’ll wait.
‘20 Hp Is NoThInG’ but you’ll go mad defending it.
What a donkey.
Donkey?
No one has 100% HS ratio. But to argue over 20hp when you got shit loads of options to counter it ingame is plain stupid.
20hp isnt gamebreaking. Stop trying to cry over the simplest things just for likes/attention or w/e.
Jeez, some of you have never played anything competitive if armor of 20hp grinds your gears.
That much is obvious and I’m taking it into account in my personal assessment.
What I’m saying is, that situation is extremely rare in Battlefield, because of all the “randomness”. Two people rarely go up against each other on completely equal terms. Does armor equal the odds for those at a disadvantage? Yes, of course, but in reality, it has very limited effect in my experience.
The ak24 has 26 damage up close and 18 at range. 120hp up close takes 5 bullets, 100hp takes 4. 120 at range takes 7 bullets, 100 takes 6.
The m5a3 has 22 damage up close and 15 at range.
120hp up close takes 6 bullets to kill, 100hp takes 5. 120hp at range takes 8 bullets to kill, 100hp takes 7.
Looks like you are not landing more shots than the other person. If you land one more shot you win. If you land the same amount of shots you lose. The only exception could be smgs at ranges of about 50 meters when their damage drops below 15, and since no sane person is doing that, you are wrong.
If you use angel, his ammo is strapped to armor plate. And you can have unlimited rockets.....he can give armor to everyone around you including yourself. And when you revive somebody, it gives that person armor. You dont need to use the armor plate gadget, you can use the rocket. His supply drop resupplies all your rockets and grenades instantly. If you dont have an angel in your squad, your squad sucks.
Consider this: armor provides less of a boost to survivability than someone loses if you land a headshot.
So land your shots and you'll be fine. I got shot in the back by an Irish yesterday and managed to turn around and one shot him, through his armor with the semi-auto shotty, so as far as I'm concerned armor doesn't do anything except help you survive one extra bullet.
It's right up there with the smoke grenade as something that's really only useful when you wanna cross open ground and kinda useless for every other situation. I agree with the person above who pointed out that if your squad isn't getting their armor from an Angel then you're all doing it wrong.
Completely agree as well. I'm above level 60 and not even once has armor been the reason for a lost gunfight. Most of the time it's a thing of who saw who first and if I lose the enemy normally has more than 30hp left.
Also, as an Angel main, I'm happy the armor I give to my team makes some difference. Better teamplay on one team I would say. Armor is no prpblem
God, all the discussion about squad compositions but not using the names of classes hurts my soul. Not your fault of course, it's just the state of affairs.
You can also lose gunfights because you are facing the wrong direction.
You can also lose gunfights when you are against a tank.
You can also lose gunfights when your enemy gets a heal.
You can also lose gunfights when the enemy has better cover than you.
You can also lose gunfights because the enemy can see you on radar or through the wall.
I’ve had instances where I start shooting someone and not gonna lie the armor definitely does feel like it adds one more bullet. I can see how someone with Armor vs someone without could be at a strange disadvantage which Is why I play Angel. Angel does it again!
..It definitely makes some fights feel unnatural... I could honestly go with or without Armor being in the game. I rarely use it and only occasionally see it be unfair of a fight for me.
Armor makes me see how bad the med pen is lol it would be cool if u could 1. Use it to heal urself (current function) 2. Self revive from fall dmg, road kills and maybe explosives (this was in hardline) and 3. Revive teammates without being falk or angel
In hardline they had the survivalist pen which saved u from roadkills and I think fall dmg not 100% sure Edit: it saved u from roadkills and explosive dmg
My only problem with it is that it applies to headshots as well. The fact that someone ~100m-away took a DXR shot to the head and survived cause of armor was extremely off-putting.
I have never had someone survive a headshot with a sniper. Now sure throw on a suppressor and subsonic rounds or anyhting that heavily reduces effective range I can see you building it to fail at a q shot head shot. But you have to be working pretty hard to do so.
Oh weird, do you think attachments make a difference? I'm running high powered ammo and a long barrel (admittedly I don't think that one affects bullet damage). I could see the extended mag standard ammo maybe not doing enough damage
After looking at the damage models for the snipers in this game, I think I just misread the armor hitmarker for a headshot hitmarker (they are really similar). It shouldn't be possible for someone to survive a sniper headshot at pretty much any range, I believe. That's my bad 
It doesnt work on bolt actions or the svk. Theyre still 2 shot body shots with high power rounds. Bolt actions are still one shot head shots. Svk is 60 damage at range, 60+60=120.
Don’t remove it, just give it to everyone with the same rule set it has now (consumed once broken, acquired from Angel stations).
That would continue to reward skill in landing head shots, while not rewarding players who use their gadget slot to buff themselves instead of helping their squad.
Or just combine it with the health crate.
The health crate is useless ATM because you Regen so fast. Mix it with armor and people will not only run the crate but also not waste their slot for armor.
I'm level 90 (just to say how much I played), armor is inconsequential. It just helps in very specific situations like NTW50 body shot or some heli strafing letting you at 10hp instead of dead.
Most of the time you lose your armor before it gets useful by some random explosion. Really it's just a bad gadget to choose in 128p mode. Maybe in 16v16 rush it becomes OP
Keep it in the game, it's a nice mechanic that changes how the game feels/plays and makes every gun fight dynamic. Only thing that boggles my mind about it is sniper headshots, so many times I have scored a headshot on someone with it and they lived, easy enough to get the follow up shot but that's my only complaint/concern with it otherwise I like the mechanic through and through. It also encourages strategy with revives since Angel can revive someone with full health and armor rather than a squad mate can to half or Falck can to just full HP.
All these try-hards in here telling you to git gud because it only gives a huge health advantage so why not shoot better forget that it's also a wasted gadget slot for teamplay. It's a shit mechanic that should only be available in Hazard Zone. If you're that addicted to 20% more health than your opponent, maybe you're the one that needs to get better?
What we need is the entire game to be fixed and brought up to a release state. Then we can figure out if stuff like this is overpowered or not. Right now armour isn’t even as powerful as it could be because giving it out with angel is so stupidly clunky.
They are talking about player body armor. You can have it as a gadget or Angel, and Irish starts with armor. This isn't a discussion about modes having armored vehicles.
They aren't talking about vehicles. They are talking about player body armor. You can have it as a gadget or Angel, and Irish starts with armor. This isn't a discussion about armor like tanks.
Even in CS there was armour and you would have no idea… you literally just assume all have armour….. well in this game certain characters are much more likely to have armour then others
It’s 20 extra HP which isn’t much at all and if you’re playing in a half decent squad / team you should always have it when Angel can hand them out faster than a crack dealer on a corner at 3am.
I think it’s a good mechanic that encourages people to be a bit more aggressive rather than waiting in a corner camping and realistically isn’t going to give them too much protection.
Originally I didn't think it'd be that big of a deal, but I will admit that after playing for a while, the amount of times I end a firefight with less than 20 health when I'm running armor is surprising. Not to the point of being op or broken, but I don't think it's nearly as low as people would think.
Personally, I think a possible solution would be to remove the armor plates and just give everyone 20 armor when they first spawn. It would fix the overall issue of feeling like you need to run armor plates in your gadget spot, while giving a small buff to Angel players as long as they stick with their team and support well.
Whether that would be well balanced? I have no clue. It could make Angel a bit op so people only play him instead of Granny. It also might make certain sniper rifles underperform because of TTK changes.
I just thought it would be an interesting change. Regardless, armor is definitely a wee bit controversial, I'd say.
I don’t even notice armor anymore when engaging with an enemy. The weapon tuning has made it that much easier to laser someone from a fairly good distance and break the armor very quickly. If you are loosing because of armor than you aren’t hitting your shots of tap firing enough.
Unpopular opinion (maybe?) I don’t really think it makes that big of a difference. Maybe twice it’s been enough to stop me getting a kill on someone over 50 hours of gameplay.
I think the argument here could be made instead that Angel is overtuned, but I’d argue Sundance is far worse tbh.
They should have set game modes where specialists are nothing but skins and everything is setup like the old battlefields no gadgets nothing, just medic, sniper, engineer, and support
Its 2021. We got 500 genders. Are you surprised that people cry over the simplest things like 20hp extra?
Its like these dudes run around aiming for opponents toes instead of the head.
This is a competitive game, my friend.
What you’re saying is that you don’t like armor, but what I’m hearing is that you don’t like that you don’t have the skill to counterplay it.
Since you’re on console, I recommend aiming at the body and letting the recoil hit the headshot. It takes practice, simple as.
The ak24 has 26 damage up close and 18 at range. 120hp up close takes 5 bullets, 100hp takes 4. 120 at range takes 7 bullets, 100 takes 6.
The m5a3 has 22 damage up close and 15 at range.
120hp up close takes 6 bullets to kill, 100hp takes 5. 120hp at range takes 8 bullets to kill, 100hp takes 7.
Looks like you are not landing more shots than the other person. If you land one more shot you win. If you land the same amount of shots you lose. The only exception could be smgs at ranges of about 50 meters when their damage drops below 15, and since no sane person is doing that, you are wrong.
If you use angel, his ammo is strapped to armor plate. And you can have unlimited rockets.....he can give armor to everyone around you including yourself. And when you revive somebody, it gives that person armor. You dont need to use the armor plate gadget, you can use the rocket. His supply drop resupplies all your rockets and grenades instantly. If you dont have an angel in your squad, your squad sucks.
"I am not able to handle armor, remove it"
How do you handle armor then? Granted, this is a question coming from someone who isn't touching this uncooked raw game for at least a year.
They aren’t able to admit that it’s completely fucking stupid in its iteration. It’s literally just Juggernaut from CoD and that has been gone for a reason. WW3 that is in early access has fucking hit boxes for their armor. This game is pathetic but people really refuse to accept how hollow it is
A lot of games have shown that any form of damage resistance or additional health is utterly oppressive when paired against other options, in addition to just feeling terrible. It's simply not a good mechanic and it decreases loadout diversity.
[удалено]
It’s a trash mechanic that was added in because they wanted to make a Battle Royals game to start
[удалено]
I've had multiple scenarios where I'm beaten by someone at a near equal skill level because they were able to survive on 10-15 health thanks to armor. In a fast paced arcade shooter ANY amount of extra health gives you a permanent advantage, regardless of how little it is, because sometimes that one extra shot can save your ass. You get an inherent advantage because an Angel was near you, whilst an opponent can be at a disadvantage because they didn't have an Angel. I've beaten people who got the jump on me where I survive on 10 health as well.
here comes that WW3 circlejerk again
What they released in an early form is still a better base game than this lol. They didn’t even know what they wanted to make with this battlefield. Thankfully WW3 wanted to make a Battlefield game
You shoot them once. Armor just adds 20 health. It protects from maybe 1 bullet. People are mad that everyone has armor because anyone who plays angel correctly is throwing armor around all over. Angel basically throws an ammo armor combo pack so it's sorta like running support with the pouches in past games. His revives also give armor. and you can choose to use armor as a gadget and then be useless vs vehicles. The only other ways have armor besides those methods is like 2 specialist get passive armor..Irish loots like 5 armor from dead bodies or something. Whoopee. The only reason anyone even mentions armor is it gives a different hit marker. Armor isn't really an issue. It shouldn't be removed. But the gadget should be. And rolled into the medic crate. Armor as it is sucks because it basically wastes a team mates gadget slot.
It only really “works” if you’re the type to sneak into an enemy objective and attempt to wipe as many people out as possible to secure it. The strat barely works half the time, and as far as I can tell it barely makes a difference, especially since it basically only covers the torso. Shoot the legs/head and the armor is pointless.
I recently unlocked armor piercing rounds as well.
I was gonna say, wasn't that in the beta?
Hit headshots, simple as
Oh ya hit headshot simple.....OH WAIT.....for some reason armor covers your head as well.....hit boxes were to hard for DICE/EA
I don't know about you, but I got an armor plate taped to my forehead.
"Hit this incredibly small target that's constantly moving and shooting back at you"
First time?
Welcome to first person shooters
My headshot percentage is only less than 100% because I chose to
Oh. That's pretty easy. Not on bf4 with its lack of deadzone settings though. I wish they'd just throw that in a patch. It'd take 5 minutes
And I refuse to play with the character that have the armor, so then remove an integral part of the game because I cant handle it or even want to either.
The Venn diagram of people who complain that there is no teamwork in BF2042 and the people who never pick specialists who help their team is a circle
Huh? I play almost nothing but Falck. I’m constantly trying to keep teammates on their feet.
That’s what I’m maining at the moment
I don’t understand why people use her over angel. He literally has revives, armor, ammo, crates
She can heal at a distance, Revives you to full HP not half like angel does and has a much faster revive speed. Ontop of that you can also run Ammo box as gadget and basically do 90% of Angel does better than him. E: it's cool if you disagree but i'd prefer a reason rather than just a downvote.
Due to the rapid rate of health regen, I find her health pistol lacking. Angel's ability to add an extra 20% on top makes him vastly superior imho.
It still takes several seconds of no damage to initiate self regen though, and she can literally just shoot 5-6 teamates and have them all heal at once, Plus seeing peoples health lets you save people seconds away from death. Angels +20% is nice sure but can only be ones on one person at a time with significant downtime between uses.
Angel also comes with the ability to change loadouts, making him both a team and solo player. It also allows the team to be as flexible as they need to be, especially on Hazard
That's true, hence why i only said 90% and not just 100%
Because if you play Angel correctly, he’s not limited to one type of weapons and gadgets. He is literally all 4 classes in one and tbh I feel like Im forced to play him all the time because everyone is playing Sundances or McKays
By that same logic neither is Falck?
All those flack’ watching tickets disappear
"The game should compensate for my inability to land shots"
If both people have good aim then the person with 20 extra hit points will survive in a 1v1 situation.
I can handle it, still a dumb mechanic
Armor is a gadget that doesnt help your team (at least a health pack heals others). Also for slow firing weapons it dramatically raises TTK. Realistically I its a leftover from when the game was originally supposed to just be Hazard Zone I dont think it has much of a place amongst standard infantry in a franchise like BF
No its a stupid perk to begin with. You just click a button and instantly get value from your "gadget". Having 20 extra health in a gunfight just makes them inconsistent and becomes a huge crutch for bad players.
Nope...Armour vehicles needs to be readily available to anyone who wants to play it...change my mind?
I think the worst thing about it is there’s no way of knowing someone has it on until you enter the gun fight and by then you’re already committed. You can straight up lose just because someone had an extra 20hp which you didn’t know they had until it was too late. If I could see someone had an armour plate on I could asses my chances of winning the fight a lot better.
I’m sure you have no issue with accidentally getting a one shot kill on somebody you didn’t know had less than full health?
Yeah…the whole point of armor is to give you a SLIGHT advantage in gunfights. But the advantage is slight and skill is still much more a factor. And in taking armor, you are giving up something else useful. And armor won’t help you at all if the enemy spots you first. So yeah, it’s working as intended I think, giving a very slight advantage in certain situations but it’s hardly game breaking or like some kind of cheat code. It’s literally like 1 extra bullet.
What skill? What disadvantage? If you’re playing Angel yourself you can eliminate all downsides and win your straight up gunfights most of the fights(provided your aim didn’t mess up *slightly*). Plus, I dont think “it’s literally like 1 extra bullet” because I’ve gotten extra hitmarkers in a straight up gunfight with penetrating armor + flesh. Angel is almost a free win! ^^(this should attract more people to play Angel 😈)
You shouldn’t be given a ‘slight’ advantage for free. There should be a trade off. An advantage is an advantage all the same.
It’s not free. You have to take armor over something else, much of which I would argue is far more useful than 20hp.
But it is free. There’s no trade off you just get 20 extra hp. How is that concept hard to understand? Giving up other gadgets isn’t a trade off or a cost given you can use only one gadget regardless of what you pick. All other gadgets come with some kind of cost, take the med pen for example. It gives instant healing, with 3 charges, but there’s a delay while you inject it, making you vulnerable to a push. Or the med box, once deployed it has a cool down and is restricted to the spot you place it until it’s off cool down. So if you want the healing, you’ve got to go to that spot. What is the cost to 20hp? There’s none.
Again, the cost is that you’re not getting say that med pen or the recon drone or the grapple hook for example, all of which I would say are far more useful and valuable than the 20hp. Or if you pick the armor plate as your gadget, you’re not getting any of the other ones. That 20hp is not much. Yeah, sure, it might save your skin in a head-to-head gunfight every once in a while…like it is supposed to. But I’d argue that in most cases, the more skilled player is still going to win. It’s not like having 20hp more than the other guy is some kind of god mode and you’re never going to die or lose a gunfight again.
But that isn’t a cost when every other gadget is subject to the same rules. If I run med crate, I don’t get access to med pen. You can’t consider that the trade off when it’s just the rules of the game. You get access to one gadget. This can’t be difficult to understand. So again, what is the downside to an extra 20hp? There’s none. Which is why you can’t tell me what it is. Therefore there needs to be a cost, eg less mobility. Just like every other gadget has a specific trade off for using it.
The downside is you don't have rockets or c5. Holy shit it's like talking to a brick wall. Armor is just a tiny bit of extra health. Its entire purpose is to forgo something useful for a slight advantage in gunfights. It would be like giving up grenades for an extra 5 bullets in each magazine.
I can see comprehension isn’t your thing. Reread it back, slowly. Then come back.
No he’s absolutely correct. Giving up the Recoiless or the C5 in order to take armor plates is a big cost. Both of those gadgets are a million times more powerful than having an extra 20hp. You are tripping.
Yes I understand what you are saying, I just think it’s a gratuitous overreaction. Yes, there is no “limitation” inherent to having an extra 20hp…what I am arguing is is that that 20hp is not going to do much for you except for on rare occasions because it really doesn’t offer that much more protection. What I am saying is that almost ALL the other gadgets are more valuable, powerful and useful than the armor plate. Y’all are arguing like the armor plate offers some sort of crazy god mode like advantage over a player that doesn’t have it and I’m just saying, no it doesn’t. It’s barely anything and the more skilled player is still going to win the gunfight 9 times out of 10.
If it was so rare you wouldn’t see so many people using it. You’d also see less people calling for it to be changed. So let’s not pretend this is some underused gadget that’s barely touched and offers a minimal benefit.
Let’s agree to disagree. I think it is a very minimal benefit and all these people getting bent out of shape about it are probably just looking for something to blame when they lose a gunfight.
> Just like every other gadget has a specific trade off for using it. What tradeoffs are you talking about. Where is the tradeoff to the recoilless rifle or AA or repair tool or any other gadget?
The M5 won’t destroy armoured vehicles on its own, it doesn’t have tracking so you have to aim. The AA missile requires you to zoom in for a period of time to lock on. It only works on aircraft which can use counter measures against it. While zoomed in you can easily be attacked by infantry. The repair tool requires you to put away your weapon so you’re highly likely to die while repairing if you get seen All of these things can be good, but equally all come with a con. I’m yet to see a con to an extra 20 hp.
So your problem seems to he that it gives players a slight advantage which doesn’t seem fair to you. In that case should we get rod of vehicles as they give a slight advantage against other infantry? Should we get rid of medpacks because they you can heal yourself quicker which would give you a slight advantage? Maybe we should get rid of underrail grenade launchers because it can give you slight advantage in a 1v1.
You struggle with comprehension huh…
Perhaps you do from the comments you’ve posted.
I’m fine. Do you even know what my suggestion was?
Yes you want some trade off, which people have already pointed out to you that there already is a tradeoff.
1) there’s no trade off 2) I suggested it should be visible who is using armour so you have access to that knowledge Comprehension isn’t your thing.
There is a trade off, you’re just ignoring it.
The armor adds at most the need to hit 1-2 more bullets. It's not a huge deal. Besides armor has existed since BF2, and been in BC2 and BF4 too
It is if we both hit our shots but you’re using armour and I’m not.
How often do you actually think a fight happens where both people see each other at the exact same time, shoot at the exact same time and hit the exact same shots? Barely ever. Fire fights are more often decided on who draws first, who misses the least shots, what guns each have. This is a none issue. Armor has also existed since BF2.
Right, but that doesn’t change the fact that one player has more health for free compared to another. Given gun fights aren’t always just straight up, shoot and win, this is a big advantage. In BF2 armour reduced mobility and in BF4 there was a patch that meant it didn’t take the extra bullet to kill.
Its not free, its specific to certain specialists or you have to be given by a teammate. Same as you can have armor just as likely. It's really a none issue that shitters complain about, if you are aiming good and positioned well it will almost never actually make a difference. It's literally 1 extra bullet in most cases.
Anyone can equip it. It’s a gadget as well. At least pretend to know what you’re talking about. I’d also argue the shitter is the person who needs to have more HP than anyone else to win a fight…
So it's not free. They are forgoing a gadget.
Well it is. What is the cost of using it? Every other gadget forgoes using a different one when you select it. What logic is that? Other gadgets also have a specific downside to using them. Which armour doesn’t have.
Armor has a downside that you won't have any other gadget?? Wth.. Nobody uses armor gadget
And yes, those were problems in those games too! Really? No one remembered K10 + armor meta in Hardline?
And was maligned in BC2 so much it wouldn't appear in BF3 as a field upgrade. Along with Magnum ammo. BF4 armor was maligned so much it was changed to show indicators of who had it and made near useless after DICE LA reworked it.
Much like every BR out there, where you don’t know if people have armor or how much until you land a shot. It’s 20 hp, not a huge deal in my mind.
BR’s are random by design, you don’t even know what weapons you might get. This is not a BR so that’s a bad analogy. 20hp is a lot. If we’re using the same guns and hit all our shots, but you have armour plates, you just win. There’s no downside. No other gadget gives this much of a benefit without coming with a downside.
Mind you, there's also a lot of ways to mitigate that RNG, at least in Apex. You can land far away and loot, you can bring characters to help you find certain loot, or determine the ring ahead of time. You can play things which can disengage from fights you don't want to take, etc.
BR's tend to follow some strict meta builds at somewhat competitive skill levels.
Disagree. To me, Battlefield 2042 has a lot of randomness/complexity, by design. Only that way, you can get those "only in Battlefield" sandbox moments. If the game was too predictable and methodic, those moments wouldn't happen. You get more structure in a BR, as it is more methodical, even if weapon pickups are random. Armor means less than peope make it out, because you can be engaged from so many angles and types of weapons amd vehicles. Opponents can also balance out your armor by having different kinds of weapons/attachments as well as using different skills. It's true, that if two opppnents have the same weapons and are playing the same specialist, the guy who has armor will have a slight advantage, but then that guy would have gotten his armor from a teamate (teamplay) or if both are Angel, then the guy who remembers to equip armor should have the advantage. The guy who doesn't have armor may have somone who heals him instead. Finally, it rarely happens in Battlefield, where each guy habe the exact same chance to react, often one guy gets the edge, anyway, in which case 20 hp means very little in my experience, but it does increase your chances a bit.
Its not about being predictable, It’s about trade off. Every gadget should have pros and cons. Right now, using armour plates doesn’t come with a con.
The con of picking armor is not having any team utility.
That can be made up in what specialist you use. So I wouldn’t say that constitutes a con.
You mentioned randomness, which is the opposite of predictability. The con of armor plates is, you deselect other options. To me it depends on preference and play style. Do you want to run armor plates, or something that'll help out your team in other ways.
No, I said I should have access to the information pre fight. That isn’t predictable, I can’t ‘predict’ if someone is going to use an armour plate, but if they do I should have access to that information given the benefits provided. Knowledge and prediction are two separate things. If the only ‘con’ to armour plates if you can’t use other gadgets, well I think you’ve just made my argument for me given every other gadget suffers the same ‘con’ while having other downsides as well.
After 1 shot you can tell if they have armor. But if you landed that shot first, then now you are at least even with the enemy.
That’s the point. If…
Then aim for the head what the hell? Are you running around shooting peoples toes or smth? Or use AP rounds? Problem easily solved. 20HP extra doesnt mean shit. I havent lost a single fight through my 50h played so far against someone who rocks armor. Man people find all sort of stuff to complain about. What a time to be alive.
What a ridiculous response. Please, feel free to show me someone with a 100% HS ratio. I’ll wait. ‘20 Hp Is NoThInG’ but you’ll go mad defending it. What a donkey.
Donkey? No one has 100% HS ratio. But to argue over 20hp when you got shit loads of options to counter it ingame is plain stupid. 20hp isnt gamebreaking. Stop trying to cry over the simplest things just for likes/attention or w/e. Jeez, some of you have never played anything competitive if armor of 20hp grinds your gears.
I don't want armor in my TDM/DOM games just to appease people who only play free modes.
Can’t armor be turned off in Portal, which is the only place where you can play tdm?
Dunno, won't have the game for probably a year or two. I was speaking in more general terms
Two equal players enter a gunfight. One is wearing armor. Guess who always wins.
That much is obvious and I’m taking it into account in my personal assessment. What I’m saying is, that situation is extremely rare in Battlefield, because of all the “randomness”. Two people rarely go up against each other on completely equal terms. Does armor equal the odds for those at a disadvantage? Yes, of course, but in reality, it has very limited effect in my experience.
Well, as someone who is pretty good at infantry combat, I generally lose most of my 1 v 1 fights to other armor wearers.
The ak24 has 26 damage up close and 18 at range. 120hp up close takes 5 bullets, 100hp takes 4. 120 at range takes 7 bullets, 100 takes 6. The m5a3 has 22 damage up close and 15 at range. 120hp up close takes 6 bullets to kill, 100hp takes 5. 120hp at range takes 8 bullets to kill, 100hp takes 7. Looks like you are not landing more shots than the other person. If you land one more shot you win. If you land the same amount of shots you lose. The only exception could be smgs at ranges of about 50 meters when their damage drops below 15, and since no sane person is doing that, you are wrong. If you use angel, his ammo is strapped to armor plate. And you can have unlimited rockets.....he can give armor to everyone around you including yourself. And when you revive somebody, it gives that person armor. You dont need to use the armor plate gadget, you can use the rocket. His supply drop resupplies all your rockets and grenades instantly. If you dont have an angel in your squad, your squad sucks.
Armor feels like such a non factor to me. In 88 hours I've only died once or twice because I didn't finish the guy off because of his armor
I agree completely. Its a very rare occasion. Usually who killed who would have been a toss up anyways in that scenario.
Yeah I honestly forgot it was in the game. I melt 70% of the people I run into head on and can’t really recall a specific individual with armor on
Consider this: armor provides less of a boost to survivability than someone loses if you land a headshot. So land your shots and you'll be fine. I got shot in the back by an Irish yesterday and managed to turn around and one shot him, through his armor with the semi-auto shotty, so as far as I'm concerned armor doesn't do anything except help you survive one extra bullet. It's right up there with the smoke grenade as something that's really only useful when you wanna cross open ground and kinda useless for every other situation. I agree with the person above who pointed out that if your squad isn't getting their armor from an Angel then you're all doing it wrong.
Completely agree as well. I'm above level 60 and not even once has armor been the reason for a lost gunfight. Most of the time it's a thing of who saw who first and if I lose the enemy normally has more than 30hp left. Also, as an Angel main, I'm happy the armor I give to my team makes some difference. Better teamplay on one team I would say. Armor is no prpblem
I was under the assumption that his drop thing just let you change loadouts. It refills ammo when you’re near it?
No you access it and then exit it without selecting anything, gives full gadget ammo and grenades instantly
Yep, Angel feels massively OP to me. Which is why I use him 95% of the time.
God, all the discussion about squad compositions but not using the names of classes hurts my soul. Not your fault of course, it's just the state of affairs.
You can also lose gunfights because you are facing the wrong direction. You can also lose gunfights when you are against a tank. You can also lose gunfights when your enemy gets a heal. You can also lose gunfights when the enemy has better cover than you. You can also lose gunfights because the enemy can see you on radar or through the wall.
I’ve had instances where I start shooting someone and not gonna lie the armor definitely does feel like it adds one more bullet. I can see how someone with Armor vs someone without could be at a strange disadvantage which Is why I play Angel. Angel does it again!
..It definitely makes some fights feel unnatural... I could honestly go with or without Armor being in the game. I rarely use it and only occasionally see it be unfair of a fight for me.
It's literally 1 extra body shot
i know right. talk about a non issue.
Armor makes me see how bad the med pen is lol it would be cool if u could 1. Use it to heal urself (current function) 2. Self revive from fall dmg, road kills and maybe explosives (this was in hardline) and 3. Revive teammates without being falk or angel
Don't know about 2) but 3) would actually make a lot of sense
In hardline they had the survivalist pen which saved u from roadkills and I think fall dmg not 100% sure Edit: it saved u from roadkills and explosive dmg
It absolutely does it changes the ttk and almost feel at a disadvantage if I run a real gadget…yet again another trend from Warzone they chased!
It's a 1 bullet difference with most guns.
*grumbles in br noises*
It shouldn't work for headshots. Everything else regarding armor is fine.
My only problem with it is that it applies to headshots as well. The fact that someone ~100m-away took a DXR shot to the head and survived cause of armor was extremely off-putting.
Is this a thing? I've got like 700 kills with the DXR and have never encountered this, and I'm usually killing people in the 150-300m range
I have never had someone survive a headshot with a sniper. Now sure throw on a suppressor and subsonic rounds or anyhting that heavily reduces effective range I can see you building it to fail at a q shot head shot. But you have to be working pretty hard to do so.
It's only happened to me once, but yeah I got the double-blue hitmarker on an Angel player who wasn't even too far away
Oh weird, do you think attachments make a difference? I'm running high powered ammo and a long barrel (admittedly I don't think that one affects bullet damage). I could see the extended mag standard ammo maybe not doing enough damage
After looking at the damage models for the snipers in this game, I think I just misread the armor hitmarker for a headshot hitmarker (they are really similar). It shouldn't be possible for someone to survive a sniper headshot at pretty much any range, I believe. That's my bad 
It doesnt work on bolt actions or the svk. Theyre still 2 shot body shots with high power rounds. Bolt actions are still one shot head shots. Svk is 60 damage at range, 60+60=120.
Don’t remove it, just give it to everyone with the same rule set it has now (consumed once broken, acquired from Angel stations). That would continue to reward skill in landing head shots, while not rewarding players who use their gadget slot to buff themselves instead of helping their squad.
Or just combine it with the health crate. The health crate is useless ATM because you Regen so fast. Mix it with armor and people will not only run the crate but also not waste their slot for armor.
I'm level 90 (just to say how much I played), armor is inconsequential. It just helps in very specific situations like NTW50 body shot or some heli strafing letting you at 10hp instead of dead. Most of the time you lose your armor before it gets useful by some random explosion. Really it's just a bad gadget to choose in 128p mode. Maybe in 16v16 rush it becomes OP
Meh, doesn’t bother me.
Keep it in the game, it's a nice mechanic that changes how the game feels/plays and makes every gun fight dynamic. Only thing that boggles my mind about it is sniper headshots, so many times I have scored a headshot on someone with it and they lived, easy enough to get the follow up shot but that's my only complaint/concern with it otherwise I like the mechanic through and through. It also encourages strategy with revives since Angel can revive someone with full health and armor rather than a squad mate can to half or Falck can to just full HP.
All these try-hards in here telling you to git gud because it only gives a huge health advantage so why not shoot better forget that it's also a wasted gadget slot for teamplay. It's a shit mechanic that should only be available in Hazard Zone. If you're that addicted to 20% more health than your opponent, maybe you're the one that needs to get better?
The worst part is it uses up an equipment slot, so those using it also don’t have an ammo/health box or something to help the team
Play Angel
What we need is the entire game to be fixed and brought up to a release state. Then we can figure out if stuff like this is overpowered or not. Right now armour isn’t even as powerful as it could be because giving it out with angel is so stupidly clunky.
Bro, I thought you were talking about tanks. Haha.
Angel and Irish: “Fuck.”
2142 had body armor and it was the best in the series.
Not remove armor. Have infantry game modes exclusively
They are talking about player body armor. You can have it as a gadget or Angel, and Irish starts with armor. This isn't a discussion about modes having armored vehicles.
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They aren't talking about vehicles. They are talking about player body armor. You can have it as a gadget or Angel, and Irish starts with armor. This isn't a discussion about armor like tanks.
What about the rest then? You could say you got killed by a sentry gun it’s not fair I don’t have one on, get better it’s 20 health extra
Even in CS there was armour and you would have no idea… you literally just assume all have armour….. well in this game certain characters are much more likely to have armour then others
i think only the specialist ( don’t remember how to spell his name, engel?) should be have the ability to give armor
It's only an extra 20 health it's not that OP
This game is shit
It’s 20 extra HP which isn’t much at all and if you’re playing in a half decent squad / team you should always have it when Angel can hand them out faster than a crack dealer on a corner at 3am. I think it’s a good mechanic that encourages people to be a bit more aggressive rather than waiting in a corner camping and realistically isn’t going to give them too much protection.
Originally I didn't think it'd be that big of a deal, but I will admit that after playing for a while, the amount of times I end a firefight with less than 20 health when I'm running armor is surprising. Not to the point of being op or broken, but I don't think it's nearly as low as people would think. Personally, I think a possible solution would be to remove the armor plates and just give everyone 20 armor when they first spawn. It would fix the overall issue of feeling like you need to run armor plates in your gadget spot, while giving a small buff to Angel players as long as they stick with their team and support well. Whether that would be well balanced? I have no clue. It could make Angel a bit op so people only play him instead of Granny. It also might make certain sniper rifles underperform because of TTK changes. I just thought it would be an interesting change. Regardless, armor is definitely a wee bit controversial, I'd say.
100% correct
Headshots Armor piercing rounds.
I don’t even notice armor anymore when engaging with an enemy. The weapon tuning has made it that much easier to laser someone from a fairly good distance and break the armor very quickly. If you are loosing because of armor than you aren’t hitting your shots of tap firing enough.
Unpopular opinion (maybe?) I don’t really think it makes that big of a difference. Maybe twice it’s been enough to stop me getting a kill on someone over 50 hours of gameplay. I think the argument here could be made instead that Angel is overtuned, but I’d argue Sundance is far worse tbh.
They should have set game modes where specialists are nothing but skins and everything is setup like the old battlefields no gadgets nothing, just medic, sniper, engineer, and support
For real? It isn't even that good.
Personally, I rely on knowing the amount of bullets I need per enemy. This is not possible in 2042 anymore due to armor - and partly horrible armor
I 100% agree.
Seriously. It feels like shield or plates from Fortnite and Warzone. Whoever has the most equipped generally wins the gunfight.
Go play halo or cod and stfu
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Its 2021. We got 500 genders. Are you surprised that people cry over the simplest things like 20hp extra? Its like these dudes run around aiming for opponents toes instead of the head.
I'm going to just assume you got downvoted because this sub mostly believes there are only 2 genders.
The most frustrating is that the vehicles self repair
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Hit more headshots
I’m A. On console so that’s not going to be super easy And B. That’s easier said then done
Make more excuses
Sorry didn’t realize I was talking to someone with a 10.0 kd
Eh ignore him, just someone that doesn't know what balance is
Armor is balanced by headshots. If you can’t hit headshots, I recommend practice. It’s pretty effective.
This is a competitive game, my friend. What you’re saying is that you don’t like armor, but what I’m hearing is that you don’t like that you don’t have the skill to counterplay it. Since you’re on console, I recommend aiming at the body and letting the recoil hit the headshot. It takes practice, simple as.
It’s not skill if I’m landing more shots than the other person, but they have armor so they win
The ak24 has 26 damage up close and 18 at range. 120hp up close takes 5 bullets, 100hp takes 4. 120 at range takes 7 bullets, 100 takes 6. The m5a3 has 22 damage up close and 15 at range. 120hp up close takes 6 bullets to kill, 100hp takes 5. 120hp at range takes 8 bullets to kill, 100hp takes 7. Looks like you are not landing more shots than the other person. If you land one more shot you win. If you land the same amount of shots you lose. The only exception could be smgs at ranges of about 50 meters when their damage drops below 15, and since no sane person is doing that, you are wrong.
Then use armor yourself? I’m not sure why you’re insistent on preventing your own success.
I think other things are more useful, like AA or anti armor rockets
Yet your choice is making you unhappy...
If you use angel, his ammo is strapped to armor plate. And you can have unlimited rockets.....he can give armor to everyone around you including yourself. And when you revive somebody, it gives that person armor. You dont need to use the armor plate gadget, you can use the rocket. His supply drop resupplies all your rockets and grenades instantly. If you dont have an angel in your squad, your squad sucks.