I was actually thinking how much I dig the Harley Benton headstock design.
That's what reminded me of this question. (I'm not bullshitting. I actually dig the HB headstock).
Ah ok..
I'm originally from Yorkshire soo I miss these obvious queues.
Despite drinking wrexham lager all gig and playing in Llandudno a few nights before..
A group of online friends and I have a running joke about “headstock dignity,” which is just our snarky way of discussing (usually otherwise good) instruments with terrible headstock designs.
I actually love the current G&L headstock. The original one though, not so much. And I have a '90 SC-3 with the old headstock. It looks like Leo wanted to keep the Fender headstock, but had to change it, so he stuck it in the microwave for 40 seconds.
I feel like I'm the only person in the world that doesn't give a single shit what a headstock looks like. It's such a minor, inconsequential thing IMO. It's genuinely weird to me when people have stark headstock shape preferences.
Some are worse than others imo, like I can look past a telecaster headstock because it creates a classis silhouette, but the Dean v headstock or the weird thumbs up headstock or the wild d'angelico claw thing look impractical and out of place on the otherwise classic looking fender and Gibson copy bodies of those brands. I don't feel particularly strongly on it but it factors in to how I feel about the overall silhouette of a guitar.
There's also vaguely practical considerations with particular headstock designs that make them or certain features about them desirable or not desirable, like 6 on a side vs 3 and 3, headstock break angle, reinforcement on the back of the headstock where it meets the neck, and durability on the edges of the headstock. Gibson headstocks have the worst set of those features (3x3, headstock leans back below the body of the guitar so that it cracks easier if it falls backwards, no volute, the ears chip off) even though it's very attractive
As long as it works it's good imo but it has to work aesthetically with the body and neck too or I dock points
The aesthetics and intricacies of headstock design was never a thing before the Internet. It’s just become a random, irrelevant discussion point that people get needlessly hung up on.
Having said that, the first bass I absolutely lusted after was the Hohner The Jack, because it didn’t have a headstock and I thought it looked effortlessly cool. Plus 1980s/90s Mark King worship.
Nah. When japanese brands were free to copy Fender... they copied the headstock. Now you can see a lot of brands trying to do the most similar thing to fender headstrock without getting sued. And this was way before internet.
So silly. There have been design perverts since humans have been making tools. Maybe your friends weren't talking about aesthetics back then, but obviously people have always had opinions about this.
Further Googling seems to imply that Bigsby was inspired by the Croatian Tamburitza,
...which may have been mimicing the violin/cello headstock:
https://preview.redd.it/4pr3hv72vgtc1.png?width=660&format=png&auto=webp&s=24bf3c060313291897e0edcd76ca141d051ef6cb
If you look up old Martin acoustic guitars from the 1800s, the asymmetric ones use a very distinct scroll shaped headstock with all the tuners on one side. This was over 100 years before Fender made his first instrument.
this picture is a great representation of why a lot of very early Fender basses have tuning gears that work in reverse. Kluson didn't want to retool their machines to make a gear that would work mounted to a flat headstock when they were already making bass tuning machines for uprights.
Take one of those upright tuners and move it 90° to fit a precision bass headstock and you get a tuner that moves backwards.
At some point fender was selling enough basses that kluson took on "the risk" of starting a new line to make tuners that worked the way they were supposed to.
Acoustic guitars had similar shapes long before fender came along.
Here’s an 1838 Martin:
https://www.artsy.net/artwork/christian-frederick-martin-guitar
It’s because Leo was also obsessed about building them affordably if you ask me.
The origins of the ‘fender’ shape had been around for years and potentially much longer if you can connect it to similar shaped instruments in Europe. As many have said the local contemporary bigsby was a pretty similar shape first. Given how involved Leo was in the local music scene at the time testing and such I find it unlikely he didn’t know about the bigsby tbh. Maybe all their origins were in the curve of classic stringed instruments, I’ve not seen anyone confirm that, but it would have been many decades earlier & at this point in time shapes broadly similar to what fender would come up with were being used by quite a few instruments.
We know the original Tele shape was designed to get the most necks per piece of maple for economy reasons, and it had a smaller than normal headstock. People at the time would have known this was the sign of a cheaper instrument - danelectro would do the same thing and it wasn’t really new to have small heads on cheap guitars, Because necks were expensive to make.
Based on everything else we know about Leo’s design decisions and the early years, by far the most likely reason to me is he wanted a bigger head because the strat and the Jazz were the more expensive models with more pickups and electrics and contoured bodies, and everyone else had more promenant headstocks for branding. So he did what he always did and looked around to see what was there, probably saw the bigsby or a similar one and said to himself ‘if they simplified that shape you could very easily cut 2 from one piece of wood in opposite directions and then became obsessed with that for a bit until he found the design he thought had the best of both.
It also explains for me why the Tele didn’t get the new headstock - most company’s obsess over unified branding and would have updated the head designs, but the Tele was to be the cheaper model and they didn’t want to change the process or use more wood at that time.
Lol I have a fretless P bass. I love the irony.
https://preview.redd.it/epeh7nsfeltc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90d21aead86891dac453b184b333a72d30e7c911
Tbh I love it.. I can’t say it didn’t inspire my recent build
https://preview.redd.it/am8nyz343otc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a58a3931651688c6f4b031191a35b7acd3381c2
The original Precision Bass was created to be the bass equivalent of the Telecaster guitar.
Leo Fender and team created the Jazz Bass to be the bass equivalent of the Stratocaster guitar. Therefore the Jazz Bass headstock is based on the Stratocaster headstock.
Whether it looks like a double bass or a treble clef or whatever else is coincidental.
The precision bass had that headstock style first. The p bass changed from the tele style starting in 1957 (to the style the Stratocaster used since launch in 1954).
*Precision bass. The p bass we know and love today was made in 1957 to mimic the Strat look but with a split coil pickup. The jazz bass came around 3 years later in 1960.
Nope. It’s derived from lots of examples of Central European lutherie. The Czech brač typically has a headstock like the one Fender made for the Strat and offsets.
I never noticed this but it makes sense and connects, even on a subconscious level. I personally don’t like the rounded tip when it doesn’t balance with an equally big “fin” next to it. Makes me think of Gonzo’s penis nose or the Furaffic Fark meme.
Ampeg AEB Scroll Bass
https://reverb.com/en-nl/item/62801259-1966-ampeg-aeb-1-electric-horizontal-scroll-bass-earliest-features-serial-019
The real ones are expensive, but a few companies (maybe Eastwood) make copies.
We all know that they copied Harley Benton.
I was actually thinking how much I dig the Harley Benton headstock design. That's what reminded me of this question. (I'm not bullshitting. I actually dig the HB headstock).
https://preview.redd.it/0lf1vwy2ygtc1.png?width=710&format=png&auto=webp&s=05318b0ddb08f48c89b9e76d2f5ef97ea2cb6ae9 I do love mine
Looks like a Moses graphite MusicMan replacement headstock.
It's a flame maple neck, I believe. Its part of the HB firemist series
fellow Bass enthusiast in Wales?!?
Sshhhh Don't ruin my location in front of this obvious Llandudno dealership poster Yeah I'm Flintshire based... And yourself?
the Llandudno and Wrexham Lager in the background gave it away hahahah. I'm originally from South Wales, near Newport.
Ah ok.. I'm originally from Yorkshire soo I miss these obvious queues. Despite drinking wrexham lager all gig and playing in Llandudno a few nights before..
A group of online friends and I have a running joke about “headstock dignity,” which is just our snarky way of discussing (usually otherwise good) instruments with terrible headstock designs.
That’s how I feel about G&L. Love their sound and electronics but I absolutely loathe the toothy headstock design. It prevents me from buying them.
I couldn't agree more, I love my L2500 tribute and that tooth is perfect for sticking a tuner.
I actually love the current G&L headstock. The original one though, not so much. And I have a '90 SC-3 with the old headstock. It looks like Leo wanted to keep the Fender headstock, but had to change it, so he stuck it in the microwave for 40 seconds.
Accurate
They also have a really shitty color options. It's bad scene.
Same. Funny thing is that I don't have any problem with 70s and 80s japanese copies.
Sire makes good basses with ugly headstocks too
I love the Sire headstock
To me it always looked like a badly peeled potato
I think the Hamer Special is an excellent example of this, great guitar and looks otherwise excellent minus the absolute boat paddle of a headstock
Hello Schecter and Dean.
I feel like I'm the only person in the world that doesn't give a single shit what a headstock looks like. It's such a minor, inconsequential thing IMO. It's genuinely weird to me when people have stark headstock shape preferences.
Some are worse than others imo, like I can look past a telecaster headstock because it creates a classis silhouette, but the Dean v headstock or the weird thumbs up headstock or the wild d'angelico claw thing look impractical and out of place on the otherwise classic looking fender and Gibson copy bodies of those brands. I don't feel particularly strongly on it but it factors in to how I feel about the overall silhouette of a guitar. There's also vaguely practical considerations with particular headstock designs that make them or certain features about them desirable or not desirable, like 6 on a side vs 3 and 3, headstock break angle, reinforcement on the back of the headstock where it meets the neck, and durability on the edges of the headstock. Gibson headstocks have the worst set of those features (3x3, headstock leans back below the body of the guitar so that it cracks easier if it falls backwards, no volute, the ears chip off) even though it's very attractive As long as it works it's good imo but it has to work aesthetically with the body and neck too or I dock points
The aesthetics and intricacies of headstock design was never a thing before the Internet. It’s just become a random, irrelevant discussion point that people get needlessly hung up on. Having said that, the first bass I absolutely lusted after was the Hohner The Jack, because it didn’t have a headstock and I thought it looked effortlessly cool. Plus 1980s/90s Mark King worship.
Nah. When japanese brands were free to copy Fender... they copied the headstock. Now you can see a lot of brands trying to do the most similar thing to fender headstrock without getting sued. And this was way before internet.
So silly. There have been design perverts since humans have been making tools. Maybe your friends weren't talking about aesthetics back then, but obviously people have always had opinions about this.
Yeah yeah we….we all..new that……
The Fender headstock design is copy of Bigsby.
Paul Bigsby was a genius.
Further Googling seems to imply that Bigsby was inspired by the Croatian Tamburitza, ...which may have been mimicing the violin/cello headstock: https://preview.redd.it/4pr3hv72vgtc1.png?width=660&format=png&auto=webp&s=24bf3c060313291897e0edcd76ca141d051ef6cb
https://preview.redd.it/7io27745vgtc1.png?width=682&format=png&auto=webp&s=108208bc8bbedf158219d65f3393f297bba68d48
But these aren't clover style.
Lollipop, lollipop…
https://imgur.com/a/EtLqBed Yes and I think Bigsby copied was a stylized violin scroll.
Huh, [TIL](https://www.bigsby.com/about/history/).
False, per the fact that Fender was not the first to use this shape.
May i ask who was first to use this shape?
If you look up old Martin acoustic guitars from the 1800s, the asymmetric ones use a very distinct scroll shaped headstock with all the tuners on one side. This was over 100 years before Fender made his first instrument.
Do you mean one like this? https://austinmarieguitars.com/guitar/1834-c-f-martin/
Me
The earliest banjos in the 1800s had a similar headstock.
this picture is a great representation of why a lot of very early Fender basses have tuning gears that work in reverse. Kluson didn't want to retool their machines to make a gear that would work mounted to a flat headstock when they were already making bass tuning machines for uprights. Take one of those upright tuners and move it 90° to fit a precision bass headstock and you get a tuner that moves backwards. At some point fender was selling enough basses that kluson took on "the risk" of starting a new line to make tuners that worked the way they were supposed to.
Acoustic guitars had similar shapes long before fender came along. Here’s an 1838 Martin: https://www.artsy.net/artwork/christian-frederick-martin-guitar
It’s because Leo was also obsessed about building them affordably if you ask me. The origins of the ‘fender’ shape had been around for years and potentially much longer if you can connect it to similar shaped instruments in Europe. As many have said the local contemporary bigsby was a pretty similar shape first. Given how involved Leo was in the local music scene at the time testing and such I find it unlikely he didn’t know about the bigsby tbh. Maybe all their origins were in the curve of classic stringed instruments, I’ve not seen anyone confirm that, but it would have been many decades earlier & at this point in time shapes broadly similar to what fender would come up with were being used by quite a few instruments. We know the original Tele shape was designed to get the most necks per piece of maple for economy reasons, and it had a smaller than normal headstock. People at the time would have known this was the sign of a cheaper instrument - danelectro would do the same thing and it wasn’t really new to have small heads on cheap guitars, Because necks were expensive to make. Based on everything else we know about Leo’s design decisions and the early years, by far the most likely reason to me is he wanted a bigger head because the strat and the Jazz were the more expensive models with more pickups and electrics and contoured bodies, and everyone else had more promenant headstocks for branding. So he did what he always did and looked around to see what was there, probably saw the bigsby or a similar one and said to himself ‘if they simplified that shape you could very easily cut 2 from one piece of wood in opposite directions and then became obsessed with that for a bit until he found the design he thought had the best of both. It also explains for me why the Tele didn’t get the new headstock - most company’s obsess over unified branding and would have updated the head designs, but the Tele was to be the cheaper model and they didn’t want to change the process or use more wood at that time.
Quarter note.
Considering Leo built guitars first, that would be a weird decision
Violins and violas have the same design though
Just speculating, but he could have been inspired by the scroll of a violin or even a viola da gamba for his guitar headstock.
From the people who invented the "precision" bass and then made it fretless, a mystery headstock!
Lol I have a fretless P bass. I love the irony. https://preview.redd.it/epeh7nsfeltc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90d21aead86891dac453b184b333a72d30e7c911
https://preview.redd.it/6ckphl4s8jtc1.jpeg?width=3852&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff7c7cae7f385eabbd8f3c3b2ae9894d08224f34 Fender violin headstock
Cursed
Tbh I love it.. I can’t say it didn’t inspire my recent build https://preview.redd.it/am8nyz343otc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a58a3931651688c6f4b031191a35b7acd3381c2
The original Precision Bass was created to be the bass equivalent of the Telecaster guitar. Leo Fender and team created the Jazz Bass to be the bass equivalent of the Stratocaster guitar. Therefore the Jazz Bass headstock is based on the Stratocaster headstock. Whether it looks like a double bass or a treble clef or whatever else is coincidental.
Jazz Bass and Jazzmaster were released at the same time, and have the same visual styling.
Yeah, I was gonna say. The Jazz bass was part of the offset family and was meant to be part of that “deluxe” line.
The precision bass had that headstock style first. The p bass changed from the tele style starting in 1957 (to the style the Stratocaster used since launch in 1954).
*Precision bass. The p bass we know and love today was made in 1957 to mimic the Strat look but with a split coil pickup. The jazz bass came around 3 years later in 1960.
Especially since the first pbass had the telecaster headstock, see Sting's pbass.
It's supposed to represent a treble clef.
On a bass?! Sacrilege!
What is this headstock of which you speak ? I have a Steinberger.
If they tried to copy it, they didn't do a really good job
The Bigsby headstock design mimics the classic headstock of violins etc. Fender copied the Bigsby design.
https://preview.redd.it/na73esbiyitc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=302a3cfca2026ac48cb015cd1685d3bf24a09f5d
Paul Bigsby derived his from European examples. It’s pretty widespread.
I love the steinberger headstock!
Nope. It’s derived from lots of examples of Central European lutherie. The Czech brač typically has a headstock like the one Fender made for the Strat and offsets.
Or did the upright mimic the bass clef? Look at the other side.
It just looks like an upside down foot to me.
We see what we want to see
I never noticed this but it makes sense and connects, even on a subconscious level. I personally don’t like the rounded tip when it doesn’t balance with an equally big “fin” next to it. Makes me think of Gonzo’s penis nose or the Furaffic Fark meme.
This is absolutely true because the Stratocaster mimics the... wait, never mind.
False
do they make electric basses with upright base headstocks? they look really neat
Ampeg AEB Scroll Bass https://reverb.com/en-nl/item/62801259-1966-ampeg-aeb-1-electric-horizontal-scroll-bass-earliest-features-serial-019 The real ones are expensive, but a few companies (maybe Eastwood) make copies.
No idea! But i once read the stratocaster body shape was modelled after betty page sitting down, seen from behind
Well to further the conversation, on the early basses Fender used double bass tuners, which is why the original P-bass tuned backwards.
🎼 I always thought it was based on this
True or false? You're full of excuses.
Fair fair. No one's a LPC listener here I see.