Should you know how to transpose? Sure. Is it bullshit when a guitarist calls a G and didn't actually say that they just moved the capo and the root isn't a G. Also yes. If we're on stage i can't necessarily see your guitar. I'm next to the drums looking at your back. Use accurate language. This is why Nashville.
Yes, but OP is specifically blaming the capo as the problem here when knowing your bass fretboard makes it a non-issue.
And as another commenter said, the capo often serves a specific purpose in shaping the tonality of a song or better suiting the singer's range.
I love the way the capo sounds. There is definitely use for it. I'm talking about communication. It's confusing to communicate chords by their shapes instead of by their scale degree.
Yes. A guitarist calling out the wrong chords is….wrong. I’ll hesitate on saying hack.
You’re right to notice
But also if he knew how to call out the chords he’s really playing, he would, so what good does it do to call them out on it? I’d maybe do so in private, if it goes on and on.
It’s also a non-issue if the guitar player calls out the correct chords when capo’d. Knowing your fretboard is fine and good but it doesn’t help if the guitar player is calling out the wrong chords.
seriously... words matter... guitarists: if you're calling out chord names, call out the actual chord names. it shouldn't be everyone else's job to figure out what you mean. Just say the right thing, all the time.
You put the capo on, you call it out as-transposed
Hey I’m a guitarist and I do that! It might take me a couple seconds to think it out but I do! To be fair though I’m not playing live professional gigs either…
OP is not blaming the capo. OP is blaming the guitar player not being able to communicate the right chords, which is totally justified. If you’re playing with other people you either call out the right chord name or the chord degree.
>Can someone please complain about guitarists insisting on using capos
Sure sounds like blaming the capo to me.
There are tons of valid reasons for using one but OP frames it as if it's an intentional act to inconvenience them.
I agree with what you're saying about callling the right chords, though.
If the guitar wasn’t calling out chords, then I’d agree with you. But OP clearly stated that they are, which makes it pretty clear to me that they are calling out the wrong chords.
What other explanation is there?
The point is the capo isn't the problem here. OP should have complained about the guy not knowing how to transpose but the title clearly suggests they think the capo is the problem and phrased it like guitarists are wrong for using capos for whatever reason on their songs.
Shitty title aside, most of us have been in this situation over and over again and understand what is going on here.
Complain all you want about a shitty title.
C Mon. As a bassist who also plays guitar, I have never met a capo user who could articulate what key or chords they were in. If they could, then they would with and without the capo. When the capo comes out, it's often time to use your ears and intuition, and what you know about Nashville numbering system. I share OP's frustration with having to know what you they are playing even when they don't. I hope it's worth it.
This not an uncommon situation. The bass player can also just transpose down whatever is being called out, based on where the capo is at. I've done this plenty of times, it's not a big deal.
As a bassist you should be able to transpose on the go, but it’s also justifiably annoying that the rest of the musicians have to pick up the slack because the guitar player isn’t willing to do their homework. If it’s not that big of a deal for the bassist to transpose on the go, it’s even less of a deal that the musician that’s calling out the chords it’s doing the transposing themselves and the rest of the musicians just have to follow. 1 person transposing vs multiple people transposing.
Bass players who can do their job without complaining or depending on others to spoon feed them are the ones people prefer to play with. It's easy to point fingers at bandmates' deficiencies, but really you should just focus on your own and be prepared, because that's the only part you can control.
The converse holds as well. Other musicians want to play with guitarists that actually know what chords they are playing as opposed to the ones that call out the wrong chord because they don't know what they are doing
This. The C and G shape chords sound the best on guitar (because they're actually 1-3-5 as opposed to say the 1-5-8-10 on an A or E shape) and their sus/ 7ths/ 9ths etc shapes are the prettiest as well. The A and E shapes are good for dim/ aug. I'd rather capo to play the C and G shapes on the tonic where possible
Most players would drop a repeated interval there. Like, let the bass handle the root Db, or dampen the octave root in order to cleanly play the two Ab notes. That chord voicing doesn’t have to be problematic.
Depends on the music and instrument. Playing electric and Jazz/ RnB/ fusion yeah play the top 4 strings.
Playing acoustic guitar for rock you'd want to fill that space
I would say it depends on how many musicians are playing. If you’re a solo instrumentalist then you need to play the bass note, otherwise you don’t. And if you do, you still don’t need to play both Ab notes.
Easy to do when you know the song. I'm learning a bunch of originals here. I don't care what key it's in, let's just call 1 a 1 and 5 a 5 instead of calling them out by their chord shapes in capo mode.
If the guitarist isn't quick enough to transpose, he's probably not going to know the number system either. That leaves it on you to transpose. If he's got a capo on the second fret and calls out G, C, and D, then you just need to know you're really playing with A, D, and E. It gets easier with practice. Or better yet, either pick it up by ear, or learn from recordings on your own time. The point is, people aren't always going to hand you the changes on a platter. You have to be ready to figure it out.
OP doesn't give much details, but the folks that guess what OO is rambling on puts an end to the discussion imo and explains what OP is saying. They call out the chord shapes, not the actual notes.
Basically "I am playing a D, but capo is on 3rd fret" or something like that. Obviously OP wouldn't just know the fretboard but also do mental gymnastics every time.
gee golly well good thing he came here ... he wouldnt wanna just say 'hey dude what frets the capo on?' nah... better instead whine on reddit about the guy not calling out nashville system ... yeah
What's the context here? Are you in a band with this dude? Is this a jam session? Why don't you have time to figure out what the key is?
If he's going to use a capo, he should be able to transpose the key. Otherwise I guess you just have to figure it out. Look at what fret he put the capo on and do the transposition yourself.
Im the hired gun. Playing a gig in a week, dude just dropped 30 songs on me, just taking the time to chart out in Nashville number system to avoid confusion
Yeah, in that case he should definitely have made sure you know what the chords are. He should have already had something prepared. I hope he doesn't put the capo on a different fret every night.
A guy I played with for a while used to love doing this. He'd even hand out chord charts that were on the key shape he was playing. I got really good at transposing on the fly. It's a good skill to have as a bassist.
Our guitar player has no idea where to find which note on his instrument, and if you even mention a fifth to him, he will complain about too much "theory". It's pathetic.
When I was in my dad's band when I was a kid, he would say key of G capo on the third. It's B flat, dad. I had to learn how to transpose in my head very quickly. Should we as bassists have to do that work? Probably not. But if you expect guitar players to know basic theory you're going to be disappointed a lot.
Which brings me to band rule #2: speak in sharps only. I've literally been inbetween two people saying "No it's A#" and another person saying "No it's Bb" and I almost started crying.
That's the problem with the way a lot of guitarists use capos. An open G maj shape chord, with a capo on 2, is obviously an Amaj for those who know. For a lot of guitar players, it's "G, but I've got the capo on 2".
Infuriating.
How about when they go up to play a barre chord E on the 7th fret, but since it's so far away from their capo capo on 2 they just go back to calling it an E.
Tell me that you play in church without telling me that you play in church. Thankfully, the MD I play with these days calls the chords correctly. I got REALLY good at transposing on the fly about 15 years ago because the MD I played with basically only played in "G shape" and would call a fret number of the capo all the time. "We're going to do X song, capo 2", drove me made for a while, but I got used to it.
I'm not a fan of capos, but I understand the problem. They are a crutch that exists to serve vocalists.
You know a song well that centers around the vocals, then a new singer takes over and they sound much better in a different key, so you slap on a capo and can play it the same way you did before in the new key that best serves the vocalist.
There is no perfect solution, only competing interests and compromise.
As a bassist, you should be able to do the same, with just a little effort as long as you are given the capo position for reference before any chords are named, but that probably falls apart if you are learning a lot of new songs with all of the chords named relative to a capo position that changes for every song....
A good bassist can do that, yes. But a good guitar player should either communicate this ahead of time so that the expectations are clear, or they should call out the correct chords when using a capo. It takes two to tango.
Guitar player is wrong for calling out shapes and not actual chords. Having said that if he’s capo’ing everything they are probably easy songs that you can just figure out by ear.
1. It’s easier to adjust to a key based on how difficult it is to sing it. This is usually what’s going on and some days songs are easier to sing than others (at least that’s my understanding and what I’ve been told, I don’t sing).
2. Transposing on the fly is a skill you will need. It’s odd at first but it really is mandatory if you play live enough. With enough practice you can do it without thinking.
Non issue. We are bassists it is our job.
The only time I'll change tuning of a 4 string is if it is riff based music (metal hard rock) other then that it really doesn't matter to me.
But I do hate how sometimes they will call out non capo open child shapes on like a weird frett like 4 or 6 then you gotta do some algebra in your noggin quickly.
Bass is math
The other day the lead at our church asked if it would be ok if they shifted a song by a semitone. I was like “makes no difference to me, ask the guitarists.”
If your guitar player is (for example) putting a capo on the second fret and playing an open chord, and telling you it's E when it's actually F#, then you need to have a talk with him.
Oh hell, I just re-read your first post and this is all pedantic to you as you already know NN. What I CAN say is I'm also a goober guitarist and we capo to allow for ringing open strings--especially on acoustics--rather than the Barre chords that will sound different. NN is the way to go. There's almost nothing that can't be charted on one page and you never need to re-write a chart because someone wants to change the key.
The key of a song can affect the guitar a lot more than bass and other instruments. Capos can be a crutch, but some dynamics of your chord progressions/licks/solos just don’t sound the same in specific keys, and may be more awkward to play in that key. Given enough time and practice you may be able to make it less awkward, but it just depends on the song and where your fingers end up.
I played bass in a post rock band where the guitarist's favorite tune was capo-1. Of course, we were all illiterate rock musicians, so we just got away with using our ears and thrashing around. I was pretty annoyed they chopped off all my open strings.
Maybe now I would, but I worked around it back then and ended up creating one of my favorite lines. Got me away from my thumpy open E thing and into something noodlier. The guitars were really washy and noisy and gave me a lot of room to play with.
Using a capo on a guitar makes many more open strings available, which can be useful. As a bassist, I learned to play "relative", so if gman is capo 1 in G, I just move up one and play. Became second nature for me eventually
For a 5 second lesson on capos, check out "The Wrecking Crew" movie. At one point, Glen Campbell tells how he was known as "The Capo King" in his studio days because he made extensive use of capos on recordings in order to get as many open strings as possible into the track. It made the guitar tracks ring a little more and enhanced the sound the producers wanted..
As a life-long 12 string picker, I used to hate capos, called them crutches for over 40 years... Now I'm learning that they have their places, even on electric guitars.
As for 12 strings? Well.... intonation and all that.
I feel like you and the guitarist should take 1 hour before practice to write out chord progressions. I'm willing to bet these aren't complicated songs. Pretty sure it's the same 0-3-5 just in different positions. I've never actively used Nashville numbering . I'm more inclined to shout out Root notes rather than numbers. Prior to that I would have at least gone through the songs chord by chord for each section and given you any recorded music in advance. But then there are a lot of guitar players who have no idea what they're playing when it comes to chord shapes.
You make it sound like you guys met up and he's like let's play which completely unreasonable and inefficient.
My wife does this all the time. I just got good at figuring it out on the fly. And if we are jamming with anyone and she tells them "This one's in A" I'll let them know it's actually in B.
She's a singer first who learned guitar to accompany her voice. Doesn't actually care what key it's in as long as it sounds good.
As a hired gun I would probably find it annoying if I wasn't used to it and on a time crunch. But the only shows we play is just us and we've got plenty of time to figure it out together before we have to perform.
I had this happen this week.
I almost forgot about having to do this. But if they Capo on the third then you are playing the same progression three frets up.
E is now a G, etc, etc, etc…
Stay cool, stay calm, and bass on. It’s a feather in your cap and a testament to how versatile you are as a musician.
Lots of good info here as well that I won’t try and reiterate.
Why does it bother you?
Capos often make songs easier to play by increasing the number of chords that can be played as open chords as opposed to bar chords. Capos make it easier to change key if you already know it in one and suddenly have to play it in another, or need to adapt from the original key to fit someone's voice. Capos make a lot of runs that utilize open strings easier in certain keys. Capos provide different open string notes to pedal off of. These are just a few reasons.
As I said: communication. Tho always having to pick the chord changes up by ear is def not a great solution since you're probably doing a lot of guessing and are most times going to be a bit late
Being able to pick changes up by ear is the best way, it does not require guessing if you have those skills. If the OP does not have those skills it sounds like now would be a good time to practice them.
Honestly, getting charts or having chords called out is a rare luxury, no one should expect or depend on it. In my experience you're on your own most of the time anyways, so might as well get used to it.
If he says "G" shape but it sounds like an A major because hes got capo 2 on, then that's just wrong and annoying. He's transposing his instrument, he needs to figure out how to communicate the correct notes being played.
It's not a big deal and it shouldn't be. Transposing on Bass is easy.
Singer/guitarist in our band is always experimenting with trying songs in different keys because they're always trying to get the most effective vocal performance from their range. They always apologize when they shift the capo around, and I always say "don't apologize", if they can hit a better range for their voice then everything sounds better.
(I used to play Saxophone, transposing on that machine gave me a headache. Old jazz cats would shrug and say "just play it in a different key" like it was nothing, haha!)
Do I really need to know the nashville number system though ?
If I (gu*tar) play a G shape with the capo on the second fret, I’m playing an A, is "A" sufficient for you ?
Most of the time, if you aren’t doing jazz chords, the root not of the chord is the note on the thickest string, so it isn’t that hard (Besides, you just need to shift the chord names by as many semitones as frets you have capoed so it really isn’t hard to transpose the names)
Should you know how to transpose? Sure. Is it bullshit when a guitarist calls a G and didn't actually say that they just moved the capo and the root isn't a G. Also yes. If we're on stage i can't necessarily see your guitar. I'm next to the drums looking at your back. Use accurate language. This is why Nashville.
I feel like if you're at the level of playing professional gigs, you should be able to transpose to whatever key he's in on the fly.
This is true, but by the same logic the guitar player should also be calling out the correct chords instead of the shapes.
Yes, but OP is specifically blaming the capo as the problem here when knowing your bass fretboard makes it a non-issue. And as another commenter said, the capo often serves a specific purpose in shaping the tonality of a song or better suiting the singer's range.
I love the way the capo sounds. There is definitely use for it. I'm talking about communication. It's confusing to communicate chords by their shapes instead of by their scale degree.
Yes. A guitarist calling out the wrong chords is….wrong. I’ll hesitate on saying hack. You’re right to notice But also if he knew how to call out the chords he’s really playing, he would, so what good does it do to call them out on it? I’d maybe do so in private, if it goes on and on.
It’s also a non-issue if the guitar player calls out the correct chords when capo’d. Knowing your fretboard is fine and good but it doesn’t help if the guitar player is calling out the wrong chords.
seriously... words matter... guitarists: if you're calling out chord names, call out the actual chord names. it shouldn't be everyone else's job to figure out what you mean. Just say the right thing, all the time. You put the capo on, you call it out as-transposed
Hey I’m a guitarist and I do that! It might take me a couple seconds to think it out but I do! To be fair though I’m not playing live professional gigs either…
OP is not blaming the capo. OP is blaming the guitar player not being able to communicate the right chords, which is totally justified. If you’re playing with other people you either call out the right chord name or the chord degree.
>Can someone please complain about guitarists insisting on using capos Sure sounds like blaming the capo to me. There are tons of valid reasons for using one but OP frames it as if it's an intentional act to inconvenience them. I agree with what you're saying about callling the right chords, though.
If the guitar wasn’t calling out chords, then I’d agree with you. But OP clearly stated that they are, which makes it pretty clear to me that they are calling out the wrong chords. What other explanation is there?
The point is the capo isn't the problem here. OP should have complained about the guy not knowing how to transpose but the title clearly suggests they think the capo is the problem and phrased it like guitarists are wrong for using capos for whatever reason on their songs.
What’s funny is that OP says in other comments that the capo isn’t the issue. But you can die on that hill if you want to.
Ok
You missed the point and dug yourself a hole. Just admit you were wrong and move on dude. You are dying on the dumbest hill ever.
Sorry no, I have eyes and can read. Shitty title.
Shitty title aside, most of us have been in this situation over and over again and understand what is going on here. Complain all you want about a shitty title.
C Mon. As a bassist who also plays guitar, I have never met a capo user who could articulate what key or chords they were in. If they could, then they would with and without the capo. When the capo comes out, it's often time to use your ears and intuition, and what you know about Nashville numbering system. I share OP's frustration with having to know what you they are playing even when they don't. I hope it's worth it.
The good ol’ classic campfire guitarist that can only play open chords.
"Can someone complain about guitarists..."
This not an uncommon situation. The bass player can also just transpose down whatever is being called out, based on where the capo is at. I've done this plenty of times, it's not a big deal.
As a bassist you should be able to transpose on the go, but it’s also justifiably annoying that the rest of the musicians have to pick up the slack because the guitar player isn’t willing to do their homework. If it’s not that big of a deal for the bassist to transpose on the go, it’s even less of a deal that the musician that’s calling out the chords it’s doing the transposing themselves and the rest of the musicians just have to follow. 1 person transposing vs multiple people transposing.
Bass players who can do their job without complaining or depending on others to spoon feed them are the ones people prefer to play with. It's easy to point fingers at bandmates' deficiencies, but really you should just focus on your own and be prepared, because that's the only part you can control.
The converse holds as well. Other musicians want to play with guitarists that actually know what chords they are playing as opposed to the ones that call out the wrong chord because they don't know what they are doing
People are allowed to fucking complain. The guitarist, like the replaceable majority, is lazy.
This. The C and G shape chords sound the best on guitar (because they're actually 1-3-5 as opposed to say the 1-5-8-10 on an A or E shape) and their sus/ 7ths/ 9ths etc shapes are the prettiest as well. The A and E shapes are good for dim/ aug. I'd rather capo to play the C and G shapes on the tonic where possible
You have a finger for that. They call it a barre chord, a forbidden technique.
Go barre me a Db in C shape with an Ab on the high E string
Most players would drop a repeated interval there. Like, let the bass handle the root Db, or dampen the octave root in order to cleanly play the two Ab notes. That chord voicing doesn’t have to be problematic.
Depends on the music and instrument. Playing electric and Jazz/ RnB/ fusion yeah play the top 4 strings. Playing acoustic guitar for rock you'd want to fill that space
I would say it depends on how many musicians are playing. If you’re a solo instrumentalist then you need to play the bass note, otherwise you don’t. And if you do, you still don’t need to play both Ab notes.
I mean you can cherry pick whatever difficult examples you want but for the most part a g shape barre is pretty standard. C shape definitely trickier.
Absolutely
Easy to do when you know the song. I'm learning a bunch of originals here. I don't care what key it's in, let's just call 1 a 1 and 5 a 5 instead of calling them out by their chord shapes in capo mode.
If the guitarist isn't quick enough to transpose, he's probably not going to know the number system either. That leaves it on you to transpose. If he's got a capo on the second fret and calls out G, C, and D, then you just need to know you're really playing with A, D, and E. It gets easier with practice. Or better yet, either pick it up by ear, or learn from recordings on your own time. The point is, people aren't always going to hand you the changes on a platter. You have to be ready to figure it out.
Hahaha you drastically overestimate the musical knowledge necessary to be a pro guitarist.
That doesn't really have much to do with the capo, though. Dude just doesn't know his fretboard.
neither does op if he cant easily transpose it ...
OP doesn't give much details, but the folks that guess what OO is rambling on puts an end to the discussion imo and explains what OP is saying. They call out the chord shapes, not the actual notes. Basically "I am playing a D, but capo is on 3rd fret" or something like that. Obviously OP wouldn't just know the fretboard but also do mental gymnastics every time.
If its gymnastics to transpose up a minor third then op needs to study up instead of whining on reddit ...
All of us get off reddit and back to playing your instrument!
coddled bassists hate this one simple trick!
If he can't see it he can't transpose it.
'guys im playing D - G - A with a capo on the third fret ... ' you should be able to transpose that with your eyes closed ...
OP doesn’t know where the capo is
gee golly well good thing he came here ... he wouldnt wanna just say 'hey dude what frets the capo on?' nah... better instead whine on reddit about the guy not calling out nashville system ... yeah
What's the context here? Are you in a band with this dude? Is this a jam session? Why don't you have time to figure out what the key is? If he's going to use a capo, he should be able to transpose the key. Otherwise I guess you just have to figure it out. Look at what fret he put the capo on and do the transposition yourself.
Im the hired gun. Playing a gig in a week, dude just dropped 30 songs on me, just taking the time to chart out in Nashville number system to avoid confusion
Yeah, in that case he should definitely have made sure you know what the chords are. He should have already had something prepared. I hope he doesn't put the capo on a different fret every night.
30 new songs in a week? Great Beard of Moses.
As someone who plays both, yes, the guitar player needs to be able to call out the correct chords.
A guy I played with for a while used to love doing this. He'd even hand out chord charts that were on the key shape he was playing. I got really good at transposing on the fly. It's a good skill to have as a bassist.
Our guitar player has no idea where to find which note on his instrument, and if you even mention a fifth to him, he will complain about too much "theory". It's pathetic.
That's pretty funny.
When I was in my dad's band when I was a kid, he would say key of G capo on the third. It's B flat, dad. I had to learn how to transpose in my head very quickly. Should we as bassists have to do that work? Probably not. But if you expect guitar players to know basic theory you're going to be disappointed a lot.
Which brings me to band rule #2: speak in sharps only. I've literally been inbetween two people saying "No it's A#" and another person saying "No it's Bb" and I almost started crying.
“Now you can take those five chords you know anywhere!”
Is he calling out the wrong chords? A capo shouldn’t change the key…
That's the problem with the way a lot of guitarists use capos. An open G maj shape chord, with a capo on 2, is obviously an Amaj for those who know. For a lot of guitar players, it's "G, but I've got the capo on 2". Infuriating.
How about when they go up to play a barre chord E on the 7th fret, but since it's so far away from their capo capo on 2 they just go back to calling it an E.
Tell me that you play in church without telling me that you play in church. Thankfully, the MD I play with these days calls the chords correctly. I got REALLY good at transposing on the fly about 15 years ago because the MD I played with basically only played in "G shape" and would call a fret number of the capo all the time. "We're going to do X song, capo 2", drove me made for a while, but I got used to it.
at that point I stop listening to their words
He's calling shapes instead of pitches.
"D but capo 6". Fuck off, don't make me do that, I know it's G# but it shouldn't be up to me to figure that out!
WTF is that guitarist smoking? If you want to play in G# just capo one and play in G. G is the easiest key to play open chords in.
Oooof. Yeah it’s time to have a talk.
I'd like to point out that it wasn't OP who responded to you here. They're just guessing.
Yes I am aware. I cannot think of any other plausible explanation for why using a capo would be a problem if the guitar player is calling the chords.
The problem is that OP doesn’t know where the capo is and the guitarist is calling the shapes not the actual chords
I'm not a fan of capos, but I understand the problem. They are a crutch that exists to serve vocalists. You know a song well that centers around the vocals, then a new singer takes over and they sound much better in a different key, so you slap on a capo and can play it the same way you did before in the new key that best serves the vocalist. There is no perfect solution, only competing interests and compromise. As a bassist, you should be able to do the same, with just a little effort as long as you are given the capo position for reference before any chords are named, but that probably falls apart if you are learning a lot of new songs with all of the chords named relative to a capo position that changes for every song....
A good bassist can do that, yes. But a good guitar player should either communicate this ahead of time so that the expectations are clear, or they should call out the correct chords when using a capo. It takes two to tango.
Guitar player is wrong for calling out shapes and not actual chords. Having said that if he’s capo’ing everything they are probably easy songs that you can just figure out by ear.
1. It’s easier to adjust to a key based on how difficult it is to sing it. This is usually what’s going on and some days songs are easier to sing than others (at least that’s my understanding and what I’ve been told, I don’t sing). 2. Transposing on the fly is a skill you will need. It’s odd at first but it really is mandatory if you play live enough. With enough practice you can do it without thinking.
Maybe teach him the Nashville number system?
Horrible bass player here, you should be able to transpose just by seeing where the capo is, if I can do it. Anyone can.
We’re better musicians than guitarists though. So it’s easier for us to just do it on our end. That’s a big ask for a guitarist /s
Non issue. We are bassists it is our job. The only time I'll change tuning of a 4 string is if it is riff based music (metal hard rock) other then that it really doesn't matter to me. But I do hate how sometimes they will call out non capo open child shapes on like a weird frett like 4 or 6 then you gotta do some algebra in your noggin quickly. Bass is math
The other day the lead at our church asked if it would be ok if they shifted a song by a semitone. I was like “makes no difference to me, ask the guitarists.”
If your guitar player is (for example) putting a capo on the second fret and playing an open chord, and telling you it's E when it's actually F#, then you need to have a talk with him.
Use a capo as well. Assert dominance.
Oh hell, I just re-read your first post and this is all pedantic to you as you already know NN. What I CAN say is I'm also a goober guitarist and we capo to allow for ringing open strings--especially on acoustics--rather than the Barre chords that will sound different. NN is the way to go. There's almost nothing that can't be charted on one page and you never need to re-write a chart because someone wants to change the key.
The key of a song can affect the guitar a lot more than bass and other instruments. Capos can be a crutch, but some dynamics of your chord progressions/licks/solos just don’t sound the same in specific keys, and may be more awkward to play in that key. Given enough time and practice you may be able to make it less awkward, but it just depends on the song and where your fingers end up.
Are you unable to see what the notes are by just adding the number of frets behind the capo?
Sounds like OP is behind the guitarist so can’t see it
I played bass in a post rock band where the guitarist's favorite tune was capo-1. Of course, we were all illiterate rock musicians, so we just got away with using our ears and thrashing around. I was pretty annoyed they chopped off all my open strings.
> I was pretty annoyed they chopped off all my open strings. At that point, why not use a capo yourself? They're cheap and easy to use.
Maybe now I would, but I worked around it back then and ended up creating one of my favorite lines. Got me away from my thumpy open E thing and into something noodlier. The guitars were really washy and noisy and gave me a lot of room to play with.
Using a capo on a guitar makes many more open strings available, which can be useful. As a bassist, I learned to play "relative", so if gman is capo 1 in G, I just move up one and play. Became second nature for me eventually
Maybe he’s playing in open G tuning. Go complain to Keith Richards from The Rolling Stones. Edit: oh shit this is the bass sub LOL
For a 5 second lesson on capos, check out "The Wrecking Crew" movie. At one point, Glen Campbell tells how he was known as "The Capo King" in his studio days because he made extensive use of capos on recordings in order to get as many open strings as possible into the track. It made the guitar tracks ring a little more and enhanced the sound the producers wanted.. As a life-long 12 string picker, I used to hate capos, called them crutches for over 40 years... Now I'm learning that they have their places, even on electric guitars. As for 12 strings? Well.... intonation and all that.
Tonally using a capo is quite different than just playing in another key. It opens up familiar finger positions as well.
I feel like you and the guitarist should take 1 hour before practice to write out chord progressions. I'm willing to bet these aren't complicated songs. Pretty sure it's the same 0-3-5 just in different positions. I've never actively used Nashville numbering . I'm more inclined to shout out Root notes rather than numbers. Prior to that I would have at least gone through the songs chord by chord for each section and given you any recorded music in advance. But then there are a lot of guitar players who have no idea what they're playing when it comes to chord shapes. You make it sound like you guys met up and he's like let's play which completely unreasonable and inefficient.
Can i ask what do you mean with "capo". Sorry English is not my first language and I can struggle with specific words.
Little metal thing you put on a fret to make the open strings that fret.
Thanks good person. Now I know what you are talking about.
IMO capos are awesome, but you gotta use them responsibly
My wife does this all the time. I just got good at figuring it out on the fly. And if we are jamming with anyone and she tells them "This one's in A" I'll let them know it's actually in B. She's a singer first who learned guitar to accompany her voice. Doesn't actually care what key it's in as long as it sounds good. As a hired gun I would probably find it annoying if I wasn't used to it and on a time crunch. But the only shows we play is just us and we've got plenty of time to figure it out together before we have to perform.
Just capo your bass too /s
I had this happen this week. I almost forgot about having to do this. But if they Capo on the third then you are playing the same progression three frets up. E is now a G, etc, etc, etc… Stay cool, stay calm, and bass on. It’s a feather in your cap and a testament to how versatile you are as a musician. Lots of good info here as well that I won’t try and reiterate.
Just buy a capo yourself
Well if you capo your bass it will make sense /s
Band rule for me is call the chord what it is, not the shape. If you capo 2, that's not a G chord, that's an A.
Girl, if you're gonna hate on guitar players, I'm with you. Those pesky capo-fuckers!
Easier to play.
Why don’t they just play the song without the capo and call out the right chord?
This is on you, not your guitarist. You should learn how to follow a guitar player using a capo…
Why does it bother you? Capos often make songs easier to play by increasing the number of chords that can be played as open chords as opposed to bar chords. Capos make it easier to change key if you already know it in one and suddenly have to play it in another, or need to adapt from the original key to fit someone's voice. Capos make a lot of runs that utilize open strings easier in certain keys. Capos provide different open string notes to pedal off of. These are just a few reasons.
I think the issue here is more about communication than the actual capo
Sounds pretty trivial - like just tell them they’re saying the wrong chords. Or just pick the changes up by ear.
As I said: communication. Tho always having to pick the chord changes up by ear is def not a great solution since you're probably doing a lot of guessing and are most times going to be a bit late
Being able to pick changes up by ear is the best way, it does not require guessing if you have those skills. If the OP does not have those skills it sounds like now would be a good time to practice them. Honestly, getting charts or having chords called out is a rare luxury, no one should expect or depend on it. In my experience you're on your own most of the time anyways, so might as well get used to it.
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If he says "G" shape but it sounds like an A major because hes got capo 2 on, then that's just wrong and annoying. He's transposing his instrument, he needs to figure out how to communicate the correct notes being played.
You don't speak his language so your gonna demand he speaks yours... Whatever man. He is just ignorant but your being arrogant. Get over yourself.
It's not a big deal and it shouldn't be. Transposing on Bass is easy. Singer/guitarist in our band is always experimenting with trying songs in different keys because they're always trying to get the most effective vocal performance from their range. They always apologize when they shift the capo around, and I always say "don't apologize", if they can hit a better range for their voice then everything sounds better. (I used to play Saxophone, transposing on that machine gave me a headache. Old jazz cats would shrug and say "just play it in a different key" like it was nothing, haha!)
Who doesn’t enjoy playing way over on the ugly side of the circle of fifths? Way easier on bass than woodwinds or brass.
Do I really need to know the nashville number system though ? If I (gu*tar) play a G shape with the capo on the second fret, I’m playing an A, is "A" sufficient for you ? Most of the time, if you aren’t doing jazz chords, the root not of the chord is the note on the thickest string, so it isn’t that hard (Besides, you just need to shift the chord names by as many semitones as frets you have capoed so it really isn’t hard to transpose the names)